Russiagate Open Thread: Roger Stone, Wonderful Human Being

You look at him, and wonder: That is a human being?

Remember, Roger Stone got his professional start working for Tricky Dick…

Also, per TPM, this happened:

Let’s see if this MSNBC clip will embed for me…

(Well, if not, you’ll have to click on the link.)

170 replies
  1. 1

    I can’t for the life of me understand what made Stone think that nazi shit was a good plan. I don’t get this at all. Most of the time, the guys who are tight with Republican officeholders try to at least fake not being nazis or klansmen. This just flat befuddles me.

  2. 2
    Mnemosyne says:

    I may be overly suspicious, but it seems odd that the Whole Foods free wi-fi blocks Balloon-Juice, but I can get to it via cellular data. 🤔

  3. 3
    MomSense says:

    I think it’s a good idea that they get used to seeing themselves in orange.

  4. 4
    B.B.A. says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): it’s possible he was just too dumb to notice it had swastikas.

  5. 5

    Wait. Are you people telling me that Roger Stone actually made that Space Nazi image? What? I thought it was a parody made to mock Twitler?

  6. 6
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    I think it’s his arrogance; I think he believes himself so important, so smart, so beloved that he can spew such stuff.

  7. 7
    GregB says:

    Stone’s brain is in full syphilitic decay.

  8. 8
    Anya says:

    Why is General Kelly immune from criticism? He is as bad as Trump, if not worse. He uses his army credentials as a shield. He even used his army experience when he was firing Amorosa. How absurd it is that he was talking about conduct that would get you court marshaled when he is working for Trump. I just can’t with him.

  9. 9

    When will conservatives learn that bow ties only belong on cats, children, and science guys?

  10. 10
    dmsilev says:

    @Mnemosyne: You have to buy a jar of mustard before it will work.

  11. 11
    RedDirtGirl says:

    Am watching Randy Credico’s March 22 interview on Ari Melber’s show. I know his name from the NYC left. Half way through you see him realize that doing a national TV interview might not have been the greatest idea. He actually says,
    “Wow, you’re prepared!”, when the host runs a clip that puts him on the spot. Goes in all braggadocious, but loses steam when he realizes he’s stepped in it.

  12. 12
    Mai Naem mobile says:

    This has nothing to do with Stone but Peter Strosk’s GoFundMe is past $350k. That is in about a day. I know he ducked up with the texting but I liked him in his congressional testimony.

  13. 13

    @dmsilev: I assumed it was because the Whole Foods router was too close to the willow.

  14. 14


    Why is General Kelly immune from criticism?

    The press desperately, even fanatically, wants to believe the Republican Party is legitimate and based on things like tough love, not racism. Finding someone to label as the strong daddy figure who’s really in charge helps them feel like Trump is an anomaly.

  15. 15
    M31 says:

    who could have expected such sweet words from someone with a huge Richard Nixon tattoo on his back?

  16. 16
    Ruckus says:

    I hope Stone sinks like he has his a very large version of his namesake tied around his ankles, as shitgibbon throws him overboard.

  17. 17
    Ken says:

    Why’d Stone endorse Space Force? Is he getting a cut of the merchandising?

  18. 18
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Anya: Kelly was never in the army.

    ETA: Don’t put him on us.

  19. 19
    Ruckus says:

    They own the WiFi router, they don’t own the cell tower.
    You’d think that as an amazon supporter they’d be cool with BJ. Maybe they don’t like political sites on in their store. Makes for happier customers i’d imagine.

  20. 20
    Ruckus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    He was Marines?
    I don’t remember, just know he was General Kelly. And yeah, I wouldn’t want to clam his rancid butt.

  21. 21
    HumboldtBlue says:

    As far as I remember Russia were assholes in 1971 as well.

    Aug. 14, 1971, The Who released “Who’s Next”.

    Had an older brother who introduced me to The Who a few years later.

    Man I love that album.

  22. 22
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Ruckus: He is a Marine.

  23. 23
    Ruckus says:

    Could it also be that they like strong authority figures? You know someone who would tie them up and whip them just for the jollies…..

  24. 24

    @Ruckus: Navy’s Army, close enough 🌝 🌚

  25. 25
    Steeplejack says:


    Unknown who made it. Stone tweeted it, then deleted it later.

  26. 26
    YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S) says:

    @Mnemosyne: @Ruckus: Could be a adult language and p0rn filter on the store router.

  27. 27
    Miss Bianca says:

    @HumboldtBlue: One of the all-time rock and roll greats. Altho’ for me, “Quadrophenia” is the ultimate Who album. I think I listened to that one every day, senior year in high school, for six months straight. It’s burned into my synapses.

  28. 28
    Ruckus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Thanks, I try to forget that some of these slugs had semi to normal lives at one time or another, and gave it all up for the thrill of being in the presence of a true racist and major asshole. In Kelly the situation is that he probably finally gets to act that major fucking asshole that the Marines somewhat frowned upon him being. All those years of repressed assholery must have finally gotten to him.

  29. 29
    Anne Laurie says:


    I may be overly suspicious, but it seems odd that the Whole Foods free wi-fi blocks Balloon-Juice, but I can get to it via cellular data.

    Balloon Juice is… quirky. When the Boston-area Giant Router went down a couple weeks ago, I could access all of my usual reads, including Twitter, except for this here site… but I could still read Balloon Juice on my phone.

    Strange & pixel-suxxing are the ways of FYWP!

  30. 30
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Army guys won’t like the comparison. Navy guys could give a shit. Other than the ones who had to drive them from ship to shore. That commute can be a bitch on some days.

  31. 31
    Platonailedit says:


    Even colbert’s cartoon president show paints racist kelly as the ‘adult in the room’. Fuck that noise.

  32. 32

    @Ruckus: yeah, I was hoping it would show the Apple version of the emoji, which is a pretty clear troll smirk

  33. 33
    debbie says:

    I read that MSNBC tweet and then see that Trump’s approval rating has ticked up to 42.2% (538), and I just want to put my head through the wall.

  34. 34
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Ruckus: Yeah, and landing can be brutal.

  35. 35
    lamh36 says:

    “I tell ya girls i dig ya bit i just don’t have time… Don’t send me no doctor….filling with up with all of those pills..”
    – Aretha Franklin – Dr Feelgood

    When she hits that 2nd verse and says “I like people.” 🔥🔥🔥 I lose it every time. This is my favorite performance for that reason alone.

  36. 36
    YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S) says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Some context for Stone’s image post here:
    I’m pretty sure Stone is comfortable with the Nazi label for himself at least. I think he claimed the label as satire at one point.

  37. 37
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    That site says that’s also known as moonface. I’ve always been under the impression that a moon face is a slightly different perspective.

  38. 38

    This is why I do not watch the news, follow the twatters, read the newspaper, listen to the radio, or watch television (except for the occasional episode of Elementary).

    These two-bit ratfuck soulless criminals are wrecking my country. Gaia save us that we can intervene before the bullets or the fire consume us all.

  39. 39

    @debbie: I was also surprised to see that the recent slide rebounded.

    @Ruckus: the Apple and google versions have a trolling implication, not so much the FYWP version

  40. 40
    HumboldtBlue says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Sweet Jesus wanting to own a motor scooter but stuck with a third-generation Huffy three-speed in desperate want of repair, I tried my best to get Quadrophenia. I listened to that album over and over but I never caught it because I already had so much theater drama. I wanted Daltry screaming “YEAH” as Bonham smashed on the drums and Townshend ripped off another chord.

    Now I am down the rabbit hole and have a classical cover of “Reign O’er Me” making my cat nervous.

  41. 41
    Ruckus says:

    The last comment, from Rufus B. Funky, says it all.

    all hail her GATDAMN majesty

  42. 42
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): He’s not as smart as he thinks he is. Or wants everyone else to think he is.

  43. 43
    trollhattan says:

    That was one of those life-changing albums arriving at just the right time, thanks for the reference. Man, forty years.

  44. 44
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: Deep state!!!

  45. 45
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Anya: He isn’t immune. He is criticized a lot. Also, he’s a Marine, not a Soldier.

  46. 46
    NotMax says:


    Best guess is that it is the originating site of ad(s), not the B-J site itself triggering the block. Especially as some of the ads incorporate aggressive tracking.

  47. 47
    Ruckus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    I think that if they did much of that kind of stuff any more the modern ship to shore taxis make it a bit better. About 5 times the speed, far better handling, don’t have to wade in, which leaves one a sitting duck…….

  48. 48
    lahke says:

    Hi, John, if you’re around, could you please explain what is going on with the WV supreme Court impeachment?

  49. 49
    trollhattan says:

    In case anybody hasn’t enjoyed it, “Aretha Live at Fillmore West” contains a seven-minute version of “Dr. Feelgood” and a lot, lot more. The Queen never sounded better than in 1971.

  50. 50
    NotMax says:


    Fine philosophy. For an ostrich.


  51. 51
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @RedDirtGirl: I fixed your comment so your link won’t capture the reply button any more.

    Also, Credico thinks he’s smart, he isn’t. What he doesn’t understand is that Special Counsel Mueller’s team have all of Assange’s communications – email, phone, text, Twitter DM, you name it. All from SIGINT collection. And they have everything, not just numbers called to/called from or email addresses sent to/received from, they have the audio of the calls, they have the text of the emails, texts, tweets, Twitter DMs, etc. Given who Assange is, and the what the Special Counsel is tasked with investigating, he has a long list of Americans, not to mention Russians, Emiratis, Saudis, Israelis, and Brits like Farage. In the case of the Americans, he’s used this list to get the Americans unmasked so he knows who was saying what to Assange or other foreigners, when, and why. His counterintelligence task force has checked these against these intercepts and whenever a name that is significant comes up, they pull all the communications captured and go through them. In short: Mueller knows everything these people have been saying to each other. He doesn’t care what they claim on TV or to print journalists or tweet out or say on radio shows. He’s got everything. And these schmucks, acting too cute by half, are going to be very, very, very, very unpleasantly surprised when he decides it is time to move.

  52. 52
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Always understood that for a moon face one had to drop trou. And that’s a different perspective…… For one thing the smile is vertical!

  53. 53
  54. 54
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @RedDirtGirl: Credico makes me a little sad. Fleischer’s show can be good but he has a weakness for cranks that gets a bit tiresome.

  55. 55
  56. 56
    NotMax says:


    That’s a mooned face.

    A moon face (more usually one word, moonface) is what, for example, the late Dick Van Patten or Hattie McDaniel had. Also too, Moonface Mullins in Anything Goes.


  57. 57
    hervevillechaise says:

    @YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S):

    Before Stone gets too comfortable with the Nazi label I suggest he read up on fellow dick enthusiast Ernst Rohm:)

  58. 58
    frosty says:


    I think it’s a good idea that they get used to seeing themselves in orange.

    Bravissima! That wins the thread, for me!

  59. 59
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I think it’s really just that Republicans have succeeded in brainwashing their base so much that Trump’s floor is pretty much in the 37-44 range. It can’t get any lower than that, and the range itself is large dependent on whether Trump has said something personally reprehensible enough in the last week or so.

    This is why I’m basically coming around to the “Republican Voters aren’t decent people at all” argument. If you’re supporting Trump (or even hemming and hawwing) you’re already a lost cause at this point.

  60. 60
  61. 61
    rikyrah says:

    They went all declare Kelly as the adult in the room. They are clutching to that like an addict with the last of their stash.
    That’s another reason for the blowback against Omarosa-she shows that Kelly ain’t shyt 😠😠

  62. 62
    Ruckus says:

    I understand. But it was just too damn easy. And besides, it worked!

  63. 63
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Sorry man, had to do it. You laid it out there and it was just begging me……

  64. 64
    jl says:

    Thanks for, at least in the context of our weird weird world today, an informative post. I skipped through the MSNBC clip to the place where I could see that Roger Stone really did threaten a dog, it is Credico’s dog, and it is very cute dog. For shame Roger Stone.

    I thought this Credico guy and Stone were big buddies or allied political operatives in dirty tricks or something. But they aren’t, or the had a falling out? I can’t keep track of all these characters. After a few books come out, I hope there’s a Cliff Notes version.

  65. 65
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Not going that far, because I really don’t like dehumanization even in jokes. But approving of Trump at this point basically makes you a moral vacuum.

  66. 66
    RedDirtGirl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks, Adam. How does one set up a proper link, any way? I can never get it to work.

  67. 67
    KSinMA says:

    @lamh36: Yes indeed.

  68. 68
    NotMax says:


    I could say it was, in its own way, a ‘nasty crack.’

    But I shan’t.


  69. 69
    joel hanes says:


    But my dre-eams they aren’t as empty
    As my conscience seems to be

  70. 70
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @MisterForkbeard: I believe M4 is quoting the Extremely Large Adult Son, also known as Qusay, yes? He’s the one who said that, IIRC.

  71. 71
    Ruckus says:


    They are clutching to that like an addict with the last of their stash.

    One of the truest things ever said in politics. They really do sound like addicts for racism. They will do anything to get that fix. And they are obviously running low, which is exactly when an addict wants that perfect hit, that hit that really wasn’t enough but it’s all that they have, it all they can find and it’s all they can fix for that last shot. And they know it.

  72. 72
    Ruckus says:

    Yeah, let’s not bess up the joint. Enough is enough.

  73. 73
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @RedDirtGirl: I can’t either. I just use naked ones, which seem to work for me most likely because I have admin privileges.

  74. 74
    jl says:

    For the MSNBC poll, i assume 7% answered “more false than completely false’. i’ll follow the link and read the complete results.

  75. 75
    sus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh, please, please, pleeeze be right, please pleasepurdyplease, Adam. For a few seconds there, feelings of normality emerged.

  76. 76

    Wait, what? Moderation? Gaia, this thing with the nyms not remembered is vexing.

    To @NotMax, LOL, point made. It’s why I read this site every day, the FP’s do the heavy lifting for me – their sacrifice is my sanity preserved.

  77. 77
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @BruceFromOhio: I freed it as soon as I saw it.

  78. 78
    HumboldtBlue says:

    Now I have my The Who albums confused.

    I asked myself earlier if this is exploitation — Elephant Man — or genius.

    Turns out, it’s brilliant.

  79. 79
    cintibud says:

    @HumboldtBlue: Keith Moon would like a word with you

  80. 80

    When my fist clenches,
    crack it open
    before I use it to lose
    my cool

    And if I smile
    Tell me some bad news
    Before I laugh
    And act like a fool

  81. 81
    Jay says:


    Republican Voters are living in a low information/alternate reality bubble fed by Faux News. Remember how many were saying “hands off our ACA” completely unaware it was the hated “Obamacare”?

    There a big train of event’s that’s gonna brutally pop that bubble for some of them.

    Keep in mind, only 24.3% of eligible voters, voted for the Mango Hied Shitgibbon. Like Nazi’s, they are loud on the intertubes and in the MSM’s head, where they are living rent free, but in reality, there ain’t that many of them.

  82. 82
    Ruckus says:

    1. Find the link you want, most likely in another tab. Highlight and copy the entire raw link in the address bar at the top of your browser.
    2 Come back to your comment and highlight the words you want to show the link.
    3. Click on the link box just above the comment box and a box will open on your screen. In the box will be an HTTP. Paste the link you copied from the other tab over the HTTP and click OK.

  83. 83
    Adam L Silverman says:

    He seems nice…

  84. 84
    HumboldtBlue says:

    @joel hanes:

    I have hours, only lonely My love is vengeance That’s never free

  85. 85
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Chetan Murthy: Oh damn, you’re right. Whoops.

    At least I accidentally disapproved of the Trump family, while thinking I was disapproving of a front page on a top 10,000 blog. I suppose that makes me morally consistent.

  86. 86
    HumboldtBlue says:


    I know, just got the music up really loud.

  87. 87
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: And then it will capture the reply button.

  88. 88
    Mary G says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Guess he decided to double down to rake in the money. Twitter’s going to be sorry when people get killed and the lawsuits start.

  89. 89
    NotMax says:

    @Adam L. Silverman

    The Alinsky Irregulars are mustering?


  90. 90
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: What’s he advertising with that pitch. It’s all about the grift with him.
    And, is that new. I thought he was kicked off of Twitter companies, or was it just off of the twitter specifically?

  91. 91


    There a big train of event’s that’s gonna brutally pop that bubble for some of them.

    And some of them will cling to that bubble no matter what. People who’s very livelihoods are directly affected by the dumpster fire STILL support him. The woman at the link stands to lose the farm, literally and figuratively, and still she supports him. That’s not a citizen, or a voter, that’s a cultist. And a cultist will willingly, happily, go right to the edge and over, and take every single one of us over too.

    Bursting bubbles or no, how the hell can a society protect itself from such intent? It’s like a suicidal death-wish.

  92. 92
    Platonailedit says:


    Also. Too. You need a line break (just hit enter after you pasts the link) so that the reply button is not caught in the link.

  93. 93

    @Adam L Silverman: He seems… earnest. I think it’s the frown.

  94. 94
    NotMax says:

    Happened to catch a great one day sale on asparagus at the supermarket on Friday. Trying out the Steam function of the Instant Pot (for the first time) on them tonight.

  95. 95
    cintibud says:

    @HumboldtBlue: Well that’s perfectly understandable!

  96. 96
    Platonailedit says:

    With 83% in, the dems turnout for WI gov is about 90K more than the thugs. The dem voters are split between the winner and others (who garnered more votes than the winner). Hopefully they will all come together in Nov instead of sulking.

  97. 97
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mary G: Especially as Twitter owns Periscope.

  98. 98
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @NotMax: Apparently.

  99. 99
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: Last I heard he wasn’t kicked off twitter. YouTube, Vimeo, Facebook, but not Twitter. And I honestly have no idea.

  100. 100
    mike in dc says:

    50-50 there’s an indictment for conspiracy prior to the midterms. If there is, a very good chance that Stone is in the first tranche of conspiracy indictments. If there’s a second tranche, I’d expect Kushner, DJTJ and maybe Erik Prince and Jeff Sessions to be in that batch, with the Trump reports following shortly thereafter. Perhaps that’s wishful thinking, but if a conspiracy really happened and is successfully uncovered, I think that’s a logical way for it to play out from a prosecution perspective.

  101. 101
    NotMax says:


    Amazing. 3 minutes and they’re done. Perfectly. Big batch, too.

  102. 102
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @BruceFromOhio: It’s the beard.

  103. 103
    tobie says:

    @Platonailedit: Democratic primaries seem to be awfully crowded these days and it’s producing a lot of winners by plurality instead of majority, which I don’t think is a good thing. I was happy for this reason to see Whitmer win with roughly 52% of the vote last week.

  104. 104
    Platonailedit says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The whacko nutjob is still there. Jack is doing jacksquat about it and is actually doubling down.

  105. 105
    Platonailedit says:


    Yup, they need to turn the off my guy / my gal mentality like today and turn up again on the real poll day.

  106. 106
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @sus: I am right. This is how SIGINT driven counterintelligence work. What the Special Counsel and his prosecutors have to do, however, is figure out what they have, how it all fits together, and what they want to charge these folks with. Some of them, no matter how deserving of being on the receiving end of justice, will not be charged. This happens in every counterintelligence investigation because they’re either not considered important enough or there’s no way to charge and then try them without giving up sources and methods. But anyone who doesn’t think that Special Counsel Mueller and his team don’t know everything is deluding themselves. Especially as many of these chuckleheads spend a lot of their time screaming about how overly strong and overly intrusive the US’s, and the US’s allies’ and partners’, intelligence capacity is. GG comes to mind in this respect given who he’s in regular contact with.

  107. 107
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @NotMax: Did you clear this with Congressman Gohmert?

  108. 108
    Mary G says:

    Somewhere a pig is flying, because Sarah Sanders has acknowledged that she lied about black people (WaPo):

    White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders apologized late Tuesday for wrongly stating that President Trump has created three times as many jobs for black workers as President Barack Obama did.

    At a news conference Tuesday, Sanders said Obama created 195,000 jobs for African Americans during his eight years in office.

    “When President Obama left after eight years in office — eight years in office — he had only created 195,000 jobs for African Americans,” Sanders told reporters. “President Trump in his first year and a half has already tripled what President Obama did in eight years.”

    Sanders’s statement was false. According to official statistics, black employment in the United States increased by nearly 3 million jobs from January 2009 through January 2017. From January 2017 through July of this year, black employment has increased by about 700,000 jobs.

    But of course, it was grudging and graceless:

    “Correction from today’s briefing: Jobs numbers for Pres Trump and Pres Obama were correct, but the time frame for Pres Obama wasn’t,” she said on Twitter. “I’m sorry for the mistake, but no apologies for the 700,000 jobs for African Americans created under President Trump.”

  109. 109
    Mnemosyne says:

    All right, exercise mavens, I have a question:

    I’m rehabbing an old shoulder injury in preparation for going back on crutches after my knee surgery on 8/31. I’ve worked up to 2 sets of 12 reps using light weights (5 lbs — stop laughing, you guys, I’m an out-of-shape middle-aged woman!). My shoulder and elbow are usually a little sore after I exercise. Am I better off increasing reps or increasing weight when I’m exercising a previously injured area?

  110. 110
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Not on my computer.
    I laid out each step as I do it and I don’t have any issues. One may have to be extremely careful if you are trying to grab the text all the way to the bottom of an already posted comment to add to your comment to link. But I never have the reply button issue. Maybe it’s because I almost never use all the text, only a bit of it, as I did in comment #47.
    Maybe I automatically add a return when I’m using the last line in my comment as a link but I’ve never had the issue.
    Possibly it’s my computer/browser/set up, but that shouldn’t affect how the link software works. But then this is WP. But I have a WP blog and I don’t have any issues there either. Of course there I’ve got full privileges, like Adam.

  111. 111
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Mnemosyne: I’ve had a lot of shoulder issues, both shoulders over the last fifteen or so years (I’m fifty), including a blown out rotator cuff requiring surgery. The PTs always recommended resistance bands before weights, and in most cases only the bands.

  112. 112
    danielx says:

    Remember, Roger Stone got his professional start working for Tricky Dick…

    That right there reveals him to be a deeply twisted fuck.

  113. 113
    Platonailedit says:


    The reply button gets caught in the link if a line break is not there. I even raised this issue when Tommy did a rejig of the site coupla years back and asking him to create an additional line space between the post and the reply button. Nothing came off it.

    Of course, this is a problem only if you insert the link (both nakid and rename) at the end of the post. Anywhere else, the line break is not needed.

  114. 114
    Mnemosyne says:


    Jack is proof that being smart at software engineering often leaves you vulnerable to believing really weird (and usually toxic) shit because you assume you’re too smart to fall for someone else’s lies.

  115. 115
    tobie says:

    @Platonailedit: I’m also not sure why some candidates don’t drop out sooner. 3 of the 7 candidates running in the Democratic primary for governor in MD got just 8%. 2 got even less than that. I have no idea what they thought they were achieving in sticking it out till the end.

  116. 116
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Mnemosyne: I don’t know what your shoulder injury was. I got AC joint decompressions in both shoulders (the scrape a bit off the underside of the outside end of the clavicle). So did a shit-ton of rehab. All I can say is: before you do -any- serious large-muscle shoulder exercise, do massive rotator cuff, scaption, and scapula … “crunches”. All with, of course, really low weight. I got those ops 8+ years ago, and when I lift upper-body, I spend easily an hour on that stuff, and an hour doing the rest of upper body.

    All of that, before even -beginning- to work deltoids, lats, pecs, or arms. When I’m working back from a long time away from the gum (like, say, *tomorrow* if I get there, heh) I’ll start with 1-2lb weights for scaption and the lowest setting on the cable pull for rotator cuff. It’s shocking how much pain you can inflict, doing scaption with 2lb dumbbells. Just shocking.

  117. 117
    Jay says:


    The bubble will never pop for the Cultists, but there’s a bunch of self identified ReThugs who voted for Hair Twitler who now call themselves Independents. There was a Republican Party Chair in CNN’s Trump Voter Group who quit the Party, turned off Faux News, and calls the remaining Trumpista’s racists and morons.

    Keep in mind that a MSM Cletus Safari to the Last Diner will have failed in it’s mission if it doesn’t find any firm holding Cletus’s

    The Insane Clown POSus only got 24.3% of the eligible vote, he probably couldn’t get 17% now, and a lot of people who stayed home or wasted their votes, because “both sides”, don’t see it that way anymore.

  118. 118
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    The issue seems to be an old whiplash injury that weakened my shoulder, plus my carpal tunnel/tendonitis issues flared up because of the crutches pinching a nerve in my armpit. 😢 So it’s muscle and nerve trouble, not joint trouble, fortunately.

    The free weights seem to be okay and there’s no unusual soreness. I’m just not sure which direction to increase.

  119. 119
    Platonailedit says:


    Someone from his team quit today over jack’s violating his own fucking tos.

  120. 120
    Millard Filmore says:

    @Adam L Silverman: “they’re either not considered important enough or there’s no way to charge and then try them without giving up sources and methods”

    I wonder how many times Trump has tweeted out something and then Mueller gives out a big sigh of relief with “now I don’t have to worry about sources and methods for THAT one.”

  121. 121
    dww44 says:

    @Major Major Major Major: In a sane country, his disapproval rating ought to be 80% not 58%. With each day and yet another Trump tweet, I become even angrier with those Americans who voted him into the Presidency. They may deserve this Presidency but the rest of us surely didn’t.

  122. 122
    Jay says:


    Reps create muscle endurance, weigh creates mustle strength.

  123. 123
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Mnemosyne: I don’t think it’s b/c he thinks he’s too smart. That’s giving him too much credit. I think he does what he does, b/c he thinks he’s too rich, to pay the price little people would pay. So it’s all about winning and money. At some deep level, he’s moved beyond mundane questions of decency, morality, care for your fellow citizens (setting aside completely care for your fellow humans, or for our planet).

    We read about how this happens to rich people often, yes? Being rich has a corroding effect on all the parts of our brain that connect us to other people in a humanizing way. B/c our every-two-minutes experience is people indulging our every whim, sometimes even before we voice it. It’s corroding.

    We need confiscatory progressive taxation to restore rich people’s humanity! *grin*

  124. 124
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: I would recommend increasing reps. Low weight, high reps. Basically every set to failure. What you want to do is fatigue the muscle completely on every exercise and every set. For instance, I did shoulders and neck today. And I’ve been doing this type of routine since December when I decided to take a break from high weight, low rep. Lifting like this is building endurance strength, as well as toning the muscles. Since I’ve switched over I’ve not lost any muscle mass, am not any weaker – I can still lift heavy/lift something heavy if I need to, but the composition of my muscle mass has changed. I can also honestly say I have never been more sore than when I lift like this, even when I was lifting as close to max as I could for the 3 sets per exercises. My shoulders and deltoids are screaming and have been since about 1/2 way through the front shoulder raises.

    Here’s what I did today.
    Cuban shoulder rolls: 20 lbs X 3 sets. Set 1: 15 reps, Set 2: 13 reps, Set 3: 14 reps
    Seated overhead shoulder press: 20 lbs X 3 sets: Set 1: 15 reps, Set 2: 14 reps, Set 3: 15 reps
    Standing front shoulder raises: 20 lbs X 3 sets: Set 1: 13 reps, Set 2: 12 reps, Set 3: 12 reps
    Standing side shoulder raises: 20 lbs X 3 sets: Set 1: 13 reps, Set 2: 14 reps, Set 3: 14 reps
    Bent over rear shoulder raises (top of head pressed on back of incline bench): 20 lbs X 3 sets: Set 1: 14 reps, Set 2: 13 reps, Set 3: 12 reps
    Standing shoulder raises (this is not a shrug, this is sliding the delts and traps up until your shoulders are as close to your ears as possible): 65 lbs X 3 sets: Set 1: 14 reps, Set 2: 13 reps, Set 3: 12 reps.
    Cardio: 1.5 mile walk with the dogs before weights and 30 minutes on the Arc Trainer, interval setting, level 10 after lifting weights.

    If you’ve got specific questions, feel free to email me.

  125. 125
  126. 126
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: I’m sure. It seems to work properly for some and not for others.

  127. 127
    James E Powell says:


    Aug. 14, 1971, The Who released “Who’s Next”.

    I saw The Who on August 12, 1971, in Cleveland. Epic show. They did most of the Who’s Next album. People were shouting out for songs from Tommy. Townshend got pissed and scolded them for not listening to the new stuff.

  128. 128
    Yarrow says:

    @Mnemosyne: Stretching is also important. If you don’t have a good set of stretches for your arms and shoulders look them up, talk to someone who knows, or maybe even hire a trainer for a session or two. Someone looking at how your arms and shoulders move may be able to help you because they can see things you can’t see.

  129. 129
    NotMax says:

    @Adam L. Silveerman

    Phew. Merely reading that is enough to make me want to sack out.

  130. 130
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Millard Filmore: Most likely a lot.

  131. 131
    Jay says:


    It’s not 58%.

    They are polling a small subset of people, who self identify, via landlines, who answer a random phone call, and say, ” why yes, I want to take a survey!”

    See any errors in that methodology?

  132. 132
    Bill Arnold says:

    @mike in dc:

    If there is, a very good chance that Stone is in the first tranche of conspiracy indictments.

    I’m surprised he hasn’t taken an extended vacation someplace with no extradition treaty with the US. That would be the rational course of action.

  133. 133
  134. 134
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Chetan Murthy:

    I think it’s both– it’s very each for rich people to decide rhat they’re rich because they’re smarter than everyone else, not because they got lucky. The Koch brothers inherited their money from their corrupt father and yet are convinced that they earned every dime by the sweat of their brows.

    And one of them got conned for millions by buying fake wines. Why? Because he thought he was too smart to be conned, because being rich automatically proved he was smarter than everyone else.

  135. 135
    Jay says:


    Seconded, stretch before, stretch after.

  136. 136
    Ruckus says:

    It’s a balancing act. Too many reps is not good, too much weight is not good. But in either case don’t do both, and add slowwwwwwly. IOW do not double either. Add a lb or a couple of reps. Too much work is really worse than not enough, especially if you are doing rehab and not building.
    When I was doing shoulder rehab for my torn rotator (yea surgery) I got up to using 5 lbs. I stayed there and increased reps, slowwwwly, over time. For joints it’s mainly the movement, not the absolute weight. And as you may have gathered too much weight is often a cause of further injury.
    So for joint work I actually recommend stretchy bands. I use very light to start off and the medium max. Of course that was when I had joints that didn’t resemble a small ball in a box car, that’s plenty of loose space for every thing to play in. As most anyone over 65 can tell you, age is hard on joints, especially if you’ve injured one or more of them. But don’t despair, I understand that happiness is only another operation away, or in my case 3 operations. Or is that 4?

  137. 137
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @NotMax: Honestly walking the dogs was tough. About 91 degrees and north of 75% humidity. It’s likely taking a long walk in the sauna. But it’s been raining so much that when we get a dry day, I try to make sure I take the girls for a walk. Came back from the walk and spent 30 minutes rehydrating while the dogs cooled off before I headed to the gym.

  138. 138
    James E Powell says:


    See any errors in that methodology?

    Wasn’t that the methodology that convinced nearly everyone that Hillary was going to win?

  139. 139
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Bless his heart.

  140. 140
    Kelly says:

    @Mnemosyne: Swim slow gentle strokes. 30 to 45 minutes. About equal laps crawl, breast and back stroke. This has cured my shoulder tendonitis from too much whitewater fun several times since the 1980’s.

  141. 141
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Tiz a puzzlement.
    I’ve been around this joint with 3 different desktops and 2 different operating systems and several updates on the Apple side over the last 6 yrs and it’s always worked for me. Shit this may be the only thing that works good for me. Damn. Good job BJ!

  142. 142
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: @Ruckus: is correct about this:

    It’s a balancing act. Too many reps is not good, too much weight is not good. But in either case don’t do both, and add slowwwwwwly. IOW do not double either. Add a lb or a couple of reps. Too much work is really worse than not enough, especially if you are doing rehab and not building.

    If you can only do four reps because it feels like your shoulder is on fire, you stop at four. That’s how I do it. On that first set of the first exercise, that 15th rep was the point where I felt I needed to stop. And that’s where I stopped. After a minute or so worth of rest and water the next set got me a couple of reps less before I had to stop. Work to failure means to the point where it feels you shouldn’t do another rep, not where you drop the weight because you can’t hold it anymore or even worse the muscle tears.

  143. 143
    Mnemosyne says:


    Yeah, I’m bad about stretching. I used to do it religiously, and then I got tired of it.

  144. 144
    Jay says:


    My routine is yoga before, yoga after.

    I do 5 sets of 15 reps, at a fixed weight, until it’s not a work out any more, then I up the weight.

    But then I rock climb, so I want endurance and strength.

  145. 145
    Ruckus says:

    @Bill Arnold:
    Those places may not want him. And he’s old. OK that fuck is 4 yrs younger than I am. Maybe he just seem old because he acts like is a stupid old fucking racist republican. And has been doing it for 40 yrs.

  146. 146
    Yarrow says:

    @Mnemosyne: You don’t have to do a ton of it, but do add some back in. I’ve also found foam rolling really helpful but it’s harder for upper body stuff. A lacrosse ball that you can roll around against your back or shoulder on a wall can help break up small muscles fibers in a way that stretching doesn’t reach. There are plenty of videos and articles online about how to use a lacrosse ball for that purpose.

  147. 147
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Also she’s doing rehab so I’d suggest not going to failure. Yes it takes longer to get there for sure but with shoulder injuries especially I’ve been told to take your time. But then I also come from the endurance side rather than a weight side of the issue. I owned a triathlon – bicycle shop and worked with a few trainers including a fellow who held a national Ironman record for a number of years and was training for an Ironman. Which of course my injuries and my massive natural athletic abilities laughed at. The idea of me, not the event.

  148. 148
    Platonailedit says:

    Minnesota state Rep. Ilhan Omar has won the Democratic primary for the state's 5th Congressional District.If Omar wins the seat, she will become one of the nation's first Muslim women in Congress.— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) August 15, 2018

    fuck the fuckkety login issue.

  149. 149
    HumboldtBlue says:

    Anyone else left in the blankness of comments?

  150. 150
    Platonailedit says:

    Penn Jillette says that he knows for a fact that Mark Burnett possesses tapes of Trump saying disparaging, racist remarks while working on Celebrity Apprentice."He would say racially insensitive things that made me uncomfortable."— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) August 14, 2018

  151. 151
    Platonailedit says:

    Sarah Sanders attacks the media for dividing the country by "elevating people like the author of this book." Does not mention that Trump has been elevating Omarosa by tweeting about her.— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) August 14, 2018

    It’s always the fucking projection with the thugs.

  152. 152
    Mnemosyne says:


    Right now, I’d probably have to do chair yoga thanks to the wobbly knee. After the whole surgery nightmare is over, I’ll probably splurge on some Pilates reformer sessions.


    I use a tennis ball for that. Works pretty well, but you know you have a badly spasmed muscle when the massage therapist sighs and says, “Well, I did my best.”

  153. 153
    Jay says:


    The Tyee has a story up about Raymond Chandler travelling to BC to enlist in the Canadian Army for service in the Great War.

  154. 154
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Mnemosyne: Can you get some PT sessions from your insurance? If so, um, that would be really valuable. The PT folks taught me everything I know about keeping my shoulders safe. And (of course) taught me that everything I’d been doing my whole life had been wrong, b/c dangerous to the joints.

    One thing they taught me, is that underneath the large muscles controlling the shoulder joint, are smaller stabilizer muscles, and that it’s really important to strengthen them. Which means doing exercises that -purposefully- don’t work the large muscles. It’s complicated to do. So for instance, “scaption” that tries not to work the deltoid, and where you hold the trapezius clenched, so that it can’t move either. Or “crunches” for your scapula, to work the muscles that stabilize the scapula, but WITHOUT working the latissimus dorsi. It was unfamiliar and somewhat difficult to learn how to do at first.

    I also second Kelly’s suggestion of swimming easy laps. But even for that, I’ve read posts suggesting these exercises in order to avoid “swimmer’s shoulder”. Basically, nobody does enough back/shoulder stabilizer exercises. Or at least, that’s why my surgeon and PTs told me.

    P.S. All of this is done at low weight. I’ve never done scaption with 5lb weights. Maybe once with 4lb. But usually 2-3lb. Cuff with the lowest setting on the cable pull, and if there were a lower one, I’d choose that.

  155. 155
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: I’ve had plenty of shoulder injuries from doing aikido, so I understand.

  156. 156
    Jay says:


    I stick to ground yoga afterwards,

    Btw, work your “core” as well, not just your arms, alternate days.

  157. 157
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Platonailedit: Her and Tlaib in Michigan will both be the two first Muslim American women members of Congress.

  158. 158
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Chetan Murthy:

    I’ve tried to get PT for it, but if it’s not a new injury, the insurance company doesn’t care. And the physical therapist refused to look at my shoulder without a doctor’s order even though the problem was aggravated by the crutches. 😒 I’ll probably end up having to pay out of pocket.

  159. 159
    Ruckus says:

    They are trying to normalize their bullshit. Like any propaganda, if you say it often enough and sometimes loud enough, people will began to believe it. Those shitty broadcasting fake news bimbos have been doing this for a long time. They just keep repeating the same bullshit over and over and over and when that gets stale they either go back to another oldie or the start a new shovel full of bullshit. “Her emails!” is one of those. There is no truth to what they say but they just keep saying over and over and over until it becomes a shibboleth. And lies are easier for propaganda precisely because it’s a lie. You never have to prove it, just repeat it. All you have to do is say it often, loud and proud long enough and people will believe it. I do believe you could convince a reasonable percentage of any population that the sky is green, just by saying it enough.

  160. 160
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Mnemosyne: Uh, I’m a real chicken about joints, b/c at age 53, I know there’s no automatic remediation anymore. Whatever I break, I have for the rest of my life. So, uh, in your situation, I’d focus on -only- shoulder stabilization exercises with low weight and high reps, until such time as all irritation disappeared. Just as if you’d had surgery. I’ve … lapsed from working-out for up to a year, since those surgeries. When I start back, I’ll just do these shoulder/back stabilizer exercises for a few months. You wrote that you’re stuck in a chair right now? Maybe you might look into getting Thera-bands? They come in differing resistance, so you get a pack with multiple types. You can use those to do everything except the scapula “crunches” (and even those until you get stronger). And for the cuff, you might never want/need to “move up”.

    If I were diligent, I’d do my shoulder exercises at home — I have a thera-band, and heck, there are books in the house that weigh 2lb.

  161. 161
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Try having those when age is staring you squarely in the face and slapping the shit out of you, just for the hell of it. If the alternative to getting old wasn’t even less fun and so, well, final, more people would try it earlier.

  162. 162
    Aleta says:

    @Mnemosyne: You’re really smart to be preparing your shoulder ahead of time to lift your body weight. I think the specific muscle action and direction you need to develop + the crutch-armpit nerve thing + your previous injury are good reasons to consult a trainer specializing in injury or age, or better yet a PT. The reason is, you gotta avoid any risk of increased tendonitis or even shoulder tear (which can happen suddenly) before you even arrive at surgery day. Cause then you might really be in a pickle.

    It should be quick for a PT to give the right exercises, because your need is so specific. Advice on avoiding the nerve-armpit thing would also be something a PT would be able to target–they probably help w/ that all the time. Like target a smaller secondary muscle or pattern that would help your armpit remain lifted off of the crutch instead of get fatigued.

    The key to avoiding shoulder injury or tendonitis is sometimes balancing muscles on either side of the joint, so a PT would help release the side that is staying contracted and strengthen the side that’s too weak. Slow swimming like Kelly said does that too and especially the yoga someone mentioned.

    What @Jim, Foolish Literalist: said about bands is really good. Adam’s advice about ‘fatigue the muscle completely on every exercise and every set,’ and being sore, and the exercises that he does, might be wrong for you. Tendonitis and excess tightness decrease one’s sensitivity to the right time to stop, and whiplash causes restrictions in the fascia, which can cause small tears in muscle fiber if you overwork. Tendonitis may get worse from that technique of stressing the muscle; my understanding is that the inflammation needs to go down first for it to heal. A PT can also loosen the old restrictions in the muscle (like Yarrow mentioned with the ball on the wall).

    I see lots of others like Ruckus and Chetan Murthy made the same points ….

  163. 163
    Jim Parish says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I keep seeing comments like these, but has everyone forgotten Paul Simon (the senator, not the singer)?

  164. 164
    Shalimar says:

    It annoys me when people say that Roger Stone got his start working for Nixon. That is the lying bullshit mythologizing he built his career on.

    Roger Stone was 19 years old during the 1972 campaign. He was a coffee boy for people too low in the campaign heirarchy to have ever even met Nixon. He was a nobody.

    Stone got his start running dirty tricks in College Republican elections later in the decade for Manafort and Atwater.

  165. 165
    J R in WV says:


    WV Supreme Court News:

    From the scene here in Charleston. WV (Near by at the fish shop, amyway) It appears that several years ago, as in decades, there was a Supreme Court decision that declared that the Legislature could no longer have any control over the Court’s budget, for reasons of judicial independence. This was good at first as it kept a tight Legislature from strangling valuable and needed judicial programs.

    But then justices of the Supreme Couirt realized that there was plenty of money to support a constant flow of blow and hookers as needed. Not really, blow isn’t that attractive to Justices, and several of them, progressively, were women… but still a lot of money.

    So there was a rather extravagant remodel of the magnificant space designed into the capitol building for the Supreme Court, along with a fleet of cars which Justices could take from Charleston to events. Like the Annual Cedar Lake Craft and Folklife 4th of July Celebration. Where you can buy West Virginia Folklore, for example. Frominlay the State of West Virginia, all 55 counties, into your Supreme Court Office Floor. a $0.39 hand-forged bracket to a $3000 piece of artwork by a well loved and popular local artist.

    Or meet a woodworker that could inlay the State of West Virginia, all 55 counties, into your Supreme Court Office Floor. This was one charge against the Head Judge who had a superseding indictment for misuse of state cars, the inlaid floor, credit cards, taking valuable furniture home, you see where this goes?

    One has pleaded guilty to wire fraud and other counts and resigned, and one is awaiting trial on the charges in that superseding indictment, which has more of similar cheap grifty $0.25 nickel and dime crimes all these guys committed. One of the Women Justices, Robin Davis, resigned from the bench before the House of Delegates of the legislature could complete the impeachment process. The three remaining justices were to be impeached today with the passage of IIRC 14 bills relating to the formal impeachment process.

    Then the Senate will have to conduct trials of the remaining 3 justices on the charges in the Bills of Inpeachment. In the meantime, the Justice that Pleaded Guilty, and resigned will be sentenced in Federal Court while the Justice who just resigned (so far) may have a Federal Court trial on the charges related to her resignation. Did I mention that everyone got at least a few Grand Jury Indictments? So everyone is either resigning or being impeached, because of the loose and uncontrolled way credit cards and state-owned autos were used by everyone, the remodel from hell that led everyone to go overboard board on picture frames, office gold plated junk with platinum bearings. Now we’re making history.

    Has a whole State Supreme Court ever been impeached or otherwise removed from office entire and unanimously at once in the history of the nation? It will be and is historic in any case.

  166. 166
    J R in WV says:


    To make link work right:

    You also have to mark the end of the link at the end of the text you want to use for your link, either by typing the 2 or 4 character ending code for the link, after the text you want to be the link, or by placing the cursor at the end of the text you want to link and clicking the /Link button in the [ b | i | link | quote] set of control buttons for setting up a comment.

  167. 167
    RedDirtGirl says:

    @Ruckus: Thanks, Ruckus! Much appreciated!

  168. 168
    zhena gogolia says:


    Yes, you just have to get used to it. It’s not going to be fixed.

  169. 169
    Tarragon says:

    Warm up before; maybe including gentle dynamic stretching. Static stretching after.

  170. 170
    brantl says:

    @debbie: Remember 49.999% of people are under average…

Comments are closed.