Space Force: Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution Edition

(Because most of our readers don’t speak Japanese*!)

I just want to quickly follow up on BettyC’s earlier post about the Vice President’s speech at the Pentagon today. Other than making some nice powerpoint slides and writing staff estimates that include projected budgetary costs, there is nothing the Department of Defense can actually do to fulfill the President’s request to create a Space Force. Article 8, Section 1 of the Constitution states:

The Congress shall have Power To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

The Department of Defense cannot, just as the President cannot, will a new military Service into existence. In order for a Space Force to be created, Congress will have to pass the legislation to make it happen, just as Congress did way back in 1789, after a lot of prodding by President Washington (who is an example of somebody who’s done an excellent job and is being recognized more and more), to formally create the US Army. As such, the Department of Defense is taking this as seriously as all the other good ideas that people pitch to it. They’re being polite and making sure that they appear to be doing everything they are legally allowed to do in response to what they’re being asked to do.

Basically ordering people to show up to the Vice President’s speech and not laugh out loud.

And should a Space Force be required, well my tribe’s got us covered!

Lot of wasted space in those ship designs…

Open thread!

* Original Japanese version for the purists! ETA: From the remake.

Update at 3:51 PM EDT:

Thanks to SSDD in the comments, we’ve got a clip of the original title sequence in Japanese. Also, why is the “Chef de Project” named MILFY?

Finally, on a more historical note, back in 2015 a team financed by Paul Allen of Microsoft fame found the Yamato’s sister ship the IJN Musashi. So, technically, this premise is workable…


208 replies
  1. 1
    Adam L Silverman says:

    I’m going to the gym, try not to invade Alpha Centauri while I’m gone.

  2. 2
  3. 3
    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford says:

    Donald Trump = President Skroob

  4. 4
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Aye aye, Captain.

  5. 5
    Leto says:

    Basically ordering people to show up to the Vice President’s speech and not laugh out loud.

    So like every other commanders call, ever.

    Also the new Space Force! uniform has been leaked.

  6. 6
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Adam L Silverman: We’ll have the population not just subdued, but welcoming us with flowers before you finish your workout.

  7. 7
    Hungry Joe says:

    Can’t wait to read “The Trump Mutiny,” about a crew fed up to their frontal lobes with a nutso captain on the USF Trump during an asteroid storm in 2047.

    Meantime: Needing a break from contemporary madness I’ve plunged into the gorgeous, grotesque madness of Mervyn Peake’s “Titus Groan” (1946), the first in the Gormenghast trilogy. Hadn’t read if for, well, decades … and it’s even more brilliant than I remembered. Peake has been compared to Tolkien, but 1) there’s no magic or wizardry, no monsters or creepy creatures; and 2) Peake’s prose is six, no, seven times better than Tolkien’s. Peake is slyly hilarious as well, and his dark illustrations are disturbing in an odd, wonderful way. I’m so lost in it, and SO loving it. In my entire life I’ve met maybe three people who’ve read it. Anybody out there?

  8. 8
    Yutsano says:

    I’m gonna be that guy: that’s actually the theme from the 2012 remake.

    I can’t seem to find the original either. Poop.

  9. 9
    The Midnight Lurker says:

    Fuck the Space Force. I say we spend that money on a time machine! And it only has to go back before November 2016! Think of the $avings!

  10. 10
    Leto says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Also the fact that you’re not linking any Robotech leaves me deeply disturbed!

  11. 11
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    And the operation will pay for itself.

    OT: got the radio installed and working. Question: if I wanted to mount the antenna on top of my plastic cargo box, how big of a piece of metal would I need to satisfy the antenna? Would it need to be grounded?

  12. 12
  13. 13
    VeniceRiley says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Got to Alpha Centauri and there are already 5G Chinese cell towers there.
    So … we killed some bugs. Everyone fights. No one quits. Space Force does the flyin’ and Ground pounders do the dyin’. I’m a citizen!

  14. 14
    Keith Patrick says:

    Wouldn’t “Space Force” be more in Scientology’s wheel house?

  15. 15
    otmar says:

    If Jews in Space doesn’t work out, there is always Pigs in Space to fall back to.

  16. 16
    Yutsano says:

    @Leto: Pfft! Robotech? Macross or GTFO n00b.

    Actually Macross is a weirder story than the hybrid anime Harmony Gold came up with in the 1980s. Especially the Minmei parts.

  17. 17
    celticdragonchick says:

    Angry Staff Officer
    ‏ @pptsapper
    15h15 hours ago

    My 9yo niece told me she had a dream where she was flying an X-Wing with R2D5, alongside Poe Dameron, and they were killing Nazis, and honestly I’m so jealous and also would watch the hell out of that

  18. 18
    A says:

    Space Battleship Yamato was the best. But it was eventually eclipsed by legend of galactic heroes and, of course, gundam.

  19. 19
    JustRuss says:

    *sigh* Remember when the White House’s guiding principle was Don’t Do Stupid Shit? I so miss those days.

  20. 20
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Yutsano: By original I was referring to the theme being in Japanese. Sorry I was unclear. I can’t find an original clip either, just of the English version. I did find this:

  21. 21
    oldster says:

    Thanks for citing the Constitution, since it clearly shows what any True Originalist must say about the question:

    A “Space Force” is clearly unconstitutional, since the Constitution gives no power to the Congress or any other branch of government to create such an entity.

    (As is the Air Force, natch.)

    Am I a True Originalist? No. In fact, there are none. There are just right-wingers who make the Constitution say what they want it to say, and call it “Originalism” when they feel like it.

  22. 22
    M31 says:

    @Hungry Joe: It’s on my bookshelf in the to-read pile right now!

    I can tell my copy is actually from 1946 because the publishers state it is “produced in complete conformity with the authorised economy standards”.

  23. 23
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Scratch that, the gym has pushed back, so I’ll be around for a bit.

  24. 24
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @JustRuss: Yeah, back when Google’s motto was “Don’t be evil”.
    Good times.

  25. 25
    Leto says:

    @Yutsano: I’ve watched both! And yes, it’s definitely weirder… But Robotech was my first anime. It came on weekday mornings at 0630, so I’d watch that while eating a bowl of cereal, then my mom would take me to school. The animation has not aged well but I still love it.

  26. 26
  27. 27
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Yutsano: I edited it so it is now clear.

  28. 28
    Yutsano says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I am teasing you you know. Apparently ssdd did locate it. I knew I should have done the search in Japanese dammit.

  29. 29
    Hungry Joe says:

    @M31: It might seem a little slow at first — after all, it was written more than 70 years ago — but once you lock into Peake’s hypnotic rhythm the world around you will just sort of dissolve.

  30. 30
    lollipopguild says:

    @VeniceRiley: Starship Trooper!

  31. 31
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodingers_cat: The answer is 4.

  32. 32
    raven says:

    “The Court’s sharp reprimand of government counsel in front of the jury on August 8 was therefore erroneous,” the prosecutors wrote. “And, while mistakes are a natural part of the trial process, the mistake here prejudiced the government by conveying to the jury that the government had acted improperly and had violated court rules or procedures. The exchange could very well lead the jury to reach two erroneous inferences: (a) that Mr. Welch’s testimony is not credible because he was improperly privy to the testimony of other witnesses, and (b) that the government sought to secure an unfair advantage by secreting its expert in the courtroom without permission . . . This prejudice should be cured.”

    Ellis said Thursday that he had not actually read the transcript, which was attached to the government motion.

    But, the judge said, “I was probably wrong.”

    He added that he makes mistakes, “like any human — and this robe doesn’t make me any more than a human.”

    He concluded, “Any criticism of counsel should be put aside — it doesn’t have anything to do with this case.”

  33. 33
    Leto says:


    (As is the Air Force, natch.)

    Care to explain that one?

  34. 34
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Leto: I’m not an anime guy. I just remember this one because it uses the Yamato.

  35. 35
    zhena gogolia says:


    This judge is a disaster.

  36. 36
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Adam L Silverman: 42.

  37. 37
    Seanly says:

    Republicans in Congress are just stupid enough and, even worse, obsequious enough that they’d go along with this stupidity and pass a measure creating this. New York Times would have at least two articles about the new Space Force:
    one would cover the corn farmers in some dusty diner in Iowa and how they look forward to their kids being able to attend Star Fleet Academy and another would be about the misunderstood neo-Nazi HS dropout who’s looking forward to commanding his first star cruiser.
    Has anyone asked Trump how this would be paid for? Or what they would do? Are we going to build and staff a fort on the Moon?

  38. 38
    Mnemosyne says:


    That’s pretty much what I was dreaming at her age, except that Han Solo was my co-pilot. 😍

  39. 39
    Yutsano says:

    @Leto: It was the first show that my brother and I could agree on. And I watched it faithfully because the story felt so REAL. There was ACTUAL DEATH!!! And the show actually killed off a main character! I’d never seen anything like that before and I was hooked. Going otaku a decade later was probably inevitable then.

    Also: edit is a complete mess. Win11 on Win7.

  40. 40
    ericblair says:

    If they’re just thinking about a Space combatant command to go with the others, I guess I can see it. Put all the space-based operational functions (comms, meteorology, early warning and the rest) under one command. If they’re thinking about a new military Service that yanks away Air Force and Navy toys, they haven’t begun to see the war with the Air Force.

    “I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe: policy staffers on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I’ve watched budgetary directives glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those… funding lines… will be lost… in time, like… tears… in rain”.

  41. 41
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @otmar: That’s not kosher!

  42. 42
    West of the Rockies says:

    Thunderbirds are go!!!

    (I know, I know: Stop trying to make Thunderbirds happen…)

  43. 43
    Leto says:

    @Adam L Silverman: *note to self: take Adam off Christmas card list…*

    @Seanly: We’re not going to build a fort on the moon. Unless Newt is involved, and then that’s a real possibility. They’d probably move USAF Space Command into the lead on this. They’re headquartered out of Peterson AFB in Colorado and build from there. Basically where most of our space command is anyways.

  44. 44
    J R in WV says:

    @Hungry Joe:

    I read it, so plus one.

    I’m loving Space Battleship Yamato. which is modeled after the world’s largest battleship, the Imperial Navy’s flagship, disabled and then sunk late in WW II. Flying 90,000 ton spaceship, with 18″ guns, some of which evidently fire LASER beams of some sort.

    And it still lands on and floats on water!!

    The USSF needs a flying Aircraft Carrier, Yes It Does!! Even if aircraft don’t work in Space.

  45. 45
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @A Ghost To Most: About 12″ in diameter, and it doesn’t have to be grounded.

  46. 46
    Jeffro says:

    @Hungry Joe: I have that ‘Gormenghast Trilogy’ on my to-read shelf…where’s it’s been for about a year, I’d say. I’ll move it up. Thanks for the recommendation!

  47. 47
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    Can I sign up? I know I am an olds and am British but I want to finally get to the bottom of Roswell and I think this is the best way. What do you reckon?

  48. 48
    oldster says:


    Easy! Article I enumerates exactly which powers Congress has, and any powers not so enumerated do not belong to Congress.

    It grants to Congress the power to create and sustain an Army and a Navy (with some added details: the Navy can remain in being in perpetuity, since a coastal nation needs a constant defense against invasion; but the Army can be kept in being only two years at a time and allowed to dissolve during peace-time, since a Standing Army is always a source of governmental tyranny and oppression).

    Nothing in Article I gives Congress the power to create an Air Force (or Space Force) that is not a part of either the Army or the Navy (or the Post Office or some other agency that Article I gives Congress the power to create). It is not among the enumerate powers of Congress. Therefore, if Congress creates one, it does so against the express word of the Constitution.

    It is unconstitutional.

    Of course, all of the foregoing was written as an Originalist would have to write it, if they were consistent with their principles, which they never are.

    They will argue this way in order to claim that something useful and beneficial for American citizens is unconstitutional (e.g. Social Security, Obamacare, etc.), but they will never use the same argument if it would prevent them from creating new branches of the military.

    For a different, and sane, argument that we should make the Air Force subordinate to the Army and Navy once again, see Robert Farley’s book “Grounded: The Case for Abolishing the Air Force.” Of course, he does not want there to be fewer US war-planes in the air, he just thinks that we get a better air force (small a small f) if it is divided into an Army Air Force and a Naval Air Force (as it originally was). And it has the added bonus of being constitutional!

  49. 49
    debit says:

    @zhena gogolia: He apologized, but his contempt for the prosecution comes through loud and clear. I can only imagine how his behavior has affected the jury, even if just subconsciously.

  50. 50
    TenguPhule says:

    Article 8, Section 1 of the Constitution states:

    Trump has already pissed on the rest of the document. What’s a few more fluid ounces? //

  51. 51
    Jeffro says:

    Anyway, back on topic: isn’t a Space Force only unconstitutional if a non-white president proposes it?

  52. 52
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Beauty, thanks.

  53. 53
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The answer is 4.


  54. 54
    TenguPhule says:


    and, of course, gundam.

    Gundam sucks.

  55. 55
    Jeffro says:

    @debit: Is this the same judge that told the prosecutors they’re only going after Manafort to get to Trumpov?

  56. 56
    piratedan says:

    @Yutsano: well its even tougher to find the original Love Hina opening theme, so go figure…

  57. 57
    Leto says:

    @Yutsano: Holy crap, that’s pretty much my exact same reasoning! I loved Transformers, GI Joe, He-man… but Robotech was on a whole ‘nother level. Like you said, real death, main characters being killed off, actual consequences… yup, was hooked early and that was that. It sucked for me though because I was basically the only one, of my friend group, who was watching it. So I’d try to talk about it but nobody knew wtf I was talking about so I’d just shut up. I’m glad you had a great bonding experience with your brother over it.

    @ericblair: Again, you already have all of that with Air Force Space Command. It’s a duplicate effort.

  58. 58
    sukabi says:

    @Leto: nope. You’re wrong. I have it on good authority, and the prototype has been in testing for a decade, that the space farce uniform consists of 2 wetsuits and a dildo.

  59. 59
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Seanly: I am thinking Trump mainly wants Space Force to he have can a Under Secretary of Space at the cabinet meetings so Trump can claim he is more hip to high tech than Obama. I am also willing to bet that Trump sees Flyn as the US Spacey’s first commander and security contractors filling out the ranks.

    Also Trump is a Mega Force fan boi, since all things Trump go back to the 80s.

  60. 60
    divF says:

    @Hungry Joe: I’ve read it but not for decades, same as you. Sounds like a plan to take it out for a spin again.

  61. 61


    Pfft! Robotech? Macross or GTFO n00b.

    This. Also, too, Gundam.

  62. 62
    The Dangerman says:

    I thought Qaddafi (Khadafi?) Was goofy sometimes. Are we sure Trump isn’t Qa-Daffy in disguise?

  63. 63
    TenguPhule says:

    @J R in WV:

    Flying 90,000 ton spaceship, with 18″ guns, some of which evidently fire LASER beams of some sort.

    Shock cannons. Interchangable with 18″ explosive shells in the 2199 remake. But the AA has been fully upgraded to quad lasers. Also torpedoes and a the old smoke stack modified to fire cruise missiles.

    And of course, the Wave Motion Gun.

  64. 64
    EBT says:

    @J R in WV: Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memories has spacecraft that retains full Vernian movement capabilities. It’s actually a plot point about how Neo Zeon stole a prototype that could operate at full capability in and out of atmosphere.

  65. 65
    oatler. says:

    It’s kind of like the old UK series “UFO” but there would be no aliens to shoot down and no groovy miniskirt chicks.

  66. 66
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Yutsano: I did an update clarifying everything, adding SSDD’s find, etc.

  67. 67
    Leto says:

    @oldster: So thoughts on constitutionality of the Marines? Coast Guard? Also the fact that the modern AF originated out of the Army Air Corp… wait, does that mean that the CIA is also unconstitutional? Oh man, that must mean the FBI… wait… DEA? Don’t tell me the EPA is too? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! My whole life is one of lies…

    Also read Farley’s book and it’s just a hot mess of bullshit.

  68. 68
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @raven: Apparently they don’t quite have Judge Ellis’s medication dialed in correctly.

    Also, he apparently does this in every case.

  69. 69
    piratedan says:

    @oatler.: and all of that creepy mood music…

  70. 70
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    try not to invade Alpha Centauri while I’m gone.

    Oops. We accidentally brought back some mind worms.

  71. 71
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Leto: The Constitution states Armies and Navies. It makes no mention of any other type of service. So a standing or volunteer or conscript Army is constitutional. As is the Navy, its Marine Corps of Sea Soldiers, and the Coast Guard, which is a brown water navy. But there is no mention of the Air Force in the Constitution, therefore, for a true originalist, it is unconstitutional.

  72. 72
    Leto says:

    @sukabi: LOL!

    I’m waiting for the mobile suits from the Starship Troopers book; planetary drop insertion, bounding around, firing off small tactical nucs left and right… pew pew!

  73. 73
    JPL says:

    @Jeffro: The judge seems to dismiss Manafort’s possible crimes as a big nothing burger. It makes me wonder why the judge thinks it is okay to cheat on ones taxes.

  74. 74
  75. 75
    TenguPhule says:


    It makes me wonder why the judge thinks it is okay to cheat on ones taxes.


  76. 76
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Seanly: It won’t get past the Senate. Reorganizing USAF’s Space Command to make it stand alone and not subordinate to US Strategic Command would be fine, but it isn’t creating a whole new uniformed Service. This isn’t going anywhere. We haven’t been able to beat the Taliban, we have bigger problems than trying to win in space.

  77. 77
    jl says:

    I thought it was going to be called TrumpStar Troopers. I copyrighted that name. Can I sue them? Collins was supposed to make it happen. What happened to that low energy schlub?

    Pence’s speech would have been immortal if he called it TrumpStar Troopers. Pence could do it with a straight face, and it would have been hilarious and everyone would be on board. Sad.

  78. 78
    Leto says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Except for now you’re not doing a plain reading of the text. Naval forces is ships/crafts. Please show where it states that the NAVY can have a ground component/land army.

  79. 79
    topclimber says:

    Nice snark Adam but let us go with the militarists and ask: Why not leverage some of our few remaining industrial strengths (aerospace engineering, military production and software expertise) to build a Space Force second to none)? I mean, besides the fact that it wouldn’t really address any recognizable threat?

  80. 80

    @Leto: I’m sure Space Command would be be basis of the new(it will never happen) Space Force, much like the way the Air Force was created from the Army/Air Force.

  81. 81
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @ericblair: A little birdie has told me that in order to stand up the new Futures Command, they’ve instituted a 10% Reduction in Force of all the civilians at all the other commands and headquarters rather than just increase funding to hire the 10% more civilians they’ll need to staff the new command. In six months to a year, you’ll see contracts put up for bid to do these jobs. So this will just cost us more on the backend like it usually does.

  82. 82
  83. 83
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    @TenguPhule: Oooh one of my favourite episodes of Dr. Who was “Waters of Mars” basically they were trying to mine Mars and there is something in the water. Something that can never be let loose! Why am I telling you guys this I know you are all Whovians. Anyway that is what it made me think about.

  84. 84
    patroclus says:

    The Air Force was specifically created as an “administrative agency” which is within the powers of Congress under McCulloch v. Maryland (which okayed the Bank of the U.S.), which allows Congress to do things it deems “necessary and proper” such as “provide for the common defense.” Both of which are in the Constitution. This really isn’t a serious legal issue, although with the Roberts Court, I suppose one shouldn’t really say that. This really seems like just a nit to pick with Originalists, which isn’t really much of a legal theory either. The Constitution is a living entity, capable of being reinterpreted pursuant to Marbury v. Madison.

  85. 85

    @Adam L Silverman: Ask any Marine, the Marines predate the Constitution.

  86. 86
    The Lodger says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Funny, I didn’t recognize either Shatner or Nimoy in that video.

  87. 87

    @A Ghost To Most: I’m sorry, you’re mistaken. Everyone knows it’s 43.

  88. 88
    Leto says:

    @Adam L Silverman: @Leto: Also why aren’t there calls for the Coast Guard to be plugged back into the Navy? Also the founders didn’t state “brown water navy”. They only had 1 concept: naval. So by definition, they should be US Navy Coast Guard Command. Or US Navy Coast Guard Fleet. Or however the Navy wants to do it’s terminology.

  89. 89
    Greg says:

    Best animated series ever. No argument.

  90. 90
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Leto: I watched Star Blazers in English and G-Force during syndication runs in the mid to late 70s when I was a kid. I remember enjoying them at the time for what they were. But it did not engender an appetite for the stuff. I remember watching one of the Ghost’s in the Shell a few years back and enjoying it, but that’s really about it. Not a knock on the genre or the style, just not something I’m into.

  91. 91
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @J R in WV: Please see my 3:51 PM update!

  92. 92
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Leto: Because at that time Navies already had Marines – they were an already existing part of Naval forces

  93. 93
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I have it on authority of Douglas Adams. Whatchugot?

  94. 94
    TenguPhule says:


    I’m sorry, you’re mistaken. Everyone knows it’s 43.

    We’ll have to settle this at dawn. Towels at two paces.

  95. 95
    Leto says:

    @patroclus: Oh I know. I mean, unless your frame of reference is frozen in 1789, it’s just people shouting crazy shit.

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Too bad the Founders didn’t love the Marines. Otherwise they would’ve put’em in the Constitution… womp womp! /s

    @Adam L Silverman: Considering the stripping of civilian positions they did from ’14-’15… *insert choice curse words*

    I’m heading home. Can’t wait to see what this looks like later :)

  96. 96
    Greg says:

    @J R in WV: if you watch the series, by the time they get back to Earth, the defense force is equipped with all sorts of sunk vessels from ww2.

  97. 97
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @otmar: And who does this resemble – especially the coiffure.

  98. 98
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Leto: The US Marine Corps are an amphibious force, not a land force.

  99. 99
    TenguPhule says:


    Ask any Marine, the Marines predate the Constitution. Creation.


  100. 100
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @J R in WV: The USS Hoel says it’s seen the Yamato, not impressed.

  101. 101
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @topclimber: I have no problem with publicly funded R&D. In fact I think we need more of it. That’s not what this would be.

  102. 102
    Immanentize says:

    @Leto: That is a very easy one — at the time of the framing, “Marines” (aka lobsters) we’re well understood to be a critical part of the naval forces.

  103. 103
    scav says:

    @Hungry Joe: Yep on Titus series, plus a biography on Peake. Interesting man and artist. Read at at about the same time as Riddley Walker. That was a time.

  104. 104
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I’m aware.

  105. 105
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Leto: The Coast Guard began as the Revenue Marine under the Treasury and was supposed to enforce customs duties and prohibit smuggling. So an entirely different section of the Constitution.

  106. 106
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @lollipopguild: FWIW, somewhere around the turn of the millenium I was assigned as a contract employee to the US Army Office of the Surgeon General. The first time our group visited their offices in NoVa I remarked to the Major escorting us the large number of Starship Troopers movie posters framed & mounted around the place. The major said, “The General thinks it’s the greatest movie ever made.” Then he leaned close & in a stage whisper continued, “He doesn’t realize it’s satire.

  107. 107
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The US Marine Corps are an amphibious force, not a land force.

    And everyone knows Space is an Ocean. //

  108. 108
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @patroclus: I’m not saying that Congress can’t create a new Service. I’m specifically stating that they would have to do it because the DOD and/or the President can’t simply order one into being.

  109. 109
    Baud says:

    I knew the Marines were unconstitutional.

  110. 110
    otmar says:

    @Adam L Silverman: yep. You shouldn’t mix Jews with Pigs in Space, just as you should not mix Star Wars and StarTrek.

  111. 111
    hells littlest angel says:

    Poor Mike Pence is like the Kif to Trump’s Zapp Branigan.

  112. 112

    Navies have been understood to include a marine component at least since classical antiquity. And it’s obvious that the framers of the Constitution understood it that way because there had been Continental Marines as part of the Continental Navy. For what it’s worth, that’s the way originalism is supposed to work; you’re supposed to look at the meanings of words as the framers understood them. If they understood that a Navy was supposed to have marines as part of its complement, then it’s fine to include a marine corps as part of the navy today.

  113. 113
    The Moar You Know says:

    OT: got the radio installed and working. Question: if I wanted to mount the antenna on top of my plastic cargo box, how big of a piece of metal would I need to satisfy the antenna? Would it need to be grounded?

    @A Ghost To Most: Get a steel (gotta be magnetic) pizza or cookie tray and that will easily do it. I have done it adequately using a one-square foot piece of sheet steel from Home Depot. It does not have to be grounded (a ground plane and electrical grounding are two entirely different things.)

  114. 114
    ruemara says:

    I feel annoyed that these twerps are ruining my space force dream job for me

  115. 115
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Leto: The TDA amendment, drafted and submitted in 2012, to make my now non existent temporary appointment position/civilian mobilization at USAWC permanent needed one last signature for finalization. The sequester went into effect while it was in the queue at the Army Staff to to be signed. So now I’m a consultant.

  116. 116
    Immanentize says:

    One of my favorite questions to students regarding our military is –. We all should know that the US Air Force is the largest airforce in the world. What is the second largest airforce in the world?

    The US Navy airforce.

  117. 117
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Yutsano: You mean InternetExploder11 on WinBlows7? You need to shitcan IE. I had manifold problems with !E11/Win7, then downloaded Firefox & fired it up. Problems solved! (Except it doesn’t save my nym & email. 4 keystrokes w/ autofill, BFD.)

  118. 118

    @Hungry Joe: and @Jeffro:
    Gormenghast? The book with a three page metaphor for a door opening? (No, I’m not joking. It involves the memory of a tree in an underground courtyard.) That has got to be the most purple prose book ever written. The later book and an unfinished half would be the most wildly overwritten books ever if they didn’t have the first to compare to. I cannot deny that it is a unique literature experience. You will definitely never read anything else like it.

  119. 119
    Mike in DC says:

    What about the looming threat from sexy foreigners seducing our politicians and businesspersons and stealing our secrets and precious bodily fluids? America needs its own Sex Force to carry the fu..uh, fight to them!
    (We may need a hard cap on volunteers, though.)

  120. 120
    Ryan says:

    What if the Space Force was a part of the Navy, like in Star Trek?

  121. 121
    Doug R says:

    Who needs a Space Force if you had a Lensman?

  122. 122
    sukabi says:

    @topclimber: funny. I always thought of NASA as space force v 1.

    Kinda need to know what you’re eventually going to “defend”.

  123. 123
    EBT says:

    @The Moar You Know: And that is before you get in to the kinds of electrical grounding.

  124. 124
    MisterForkbeard says:

    So long as we’re posting silly videos, can we post the Most Badass SciFi Move Ever from Battlestar Galactica? The one where they jump the ship into atmosphere?

    Come on Adam, you know you want to.

  125. 125
    Domestic short hair tabby (fka vheidi) says:

    @Hungry Joe: yup. About as long ago.I seem to remember creepy creatures of the human variety.
    It, what is with the WVa Supremes?

  126. 126
    Doug R says:

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    You mean InternetExploder11 on WinBlows7? You need to shitcan IE. I had manifold problems with !E11/Win7, then downloaded Firefox & fired it up. Problems solved! (Except it doesn’t save my nym & email. 4 keystrokes w/ autofill, BFD.)

    Exactly! Both Firefox and Chrome have autofill. About 6 mousetaps in the right boxes and it’s done.

  127. 127
    zhena gogolia says:


    Did everyone see this fabulous obituary for the man who did the sound effects for the original Star Trek TV show? (NYT)

  128. 128
    Mike J says:

    If you put a dimensional wave motion explosive compression emitter on a ship you’ll come up with a reason to fire it in every episode.

    Make your own analogies.

  129. 129
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @MisterForkbeard: Despite the plot holes and cul de sacs the show runners created for themselves, that was a very enjoyable series.

  130. 130

    The Coast Guard is one of those weird organizations that fulfills multiple roles and thus is hard to categorize. It was first set up as part of the Treasury Department to try to catch smugglers. it also helps mariners in distress and has been part of the Department of Transportation as part of that role. And it serves to protect our coastal waters from enemy craft in times of war, when it has moved to be part of the Navy.

  131. 131
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mike J:

    If you put a dimensional wave motion explosive compression emitter on a ship you’ll come up with a reason to fire it in every episode.

    Defied in the 2199 reboot. They fire so rarely that when they do use it, its always goddamn impressive.

  132. 132
    ruemara says:

    @Uncle Cosmo: many people missed the satire of Verhoeven’s movies and the original book.

    @Frankensteinbeck: I tried the series. If anything, they made it longer than the book.

  133. 133
    Mike J says:


    That is a very easy one — at the time of the framing, “Marines” (aka lobsters)

    You are Jordan Peterson and I claim my five pounds.

  134. 134
    Ryan says:

    @MisterForkbeard: Damn, I forgot about that. I need to rewatch the entire series now.

  135. 135
    Millard Filmore says:

    @Immanentize: I have read on the internet, so it must be true …
    1) US air force
    2) US Navy
    3) US Marines
    4) US spare/obsolete/parts-planes sitting in desert bone-yards

  136. 136
    Mike J says:


    Defied in the 2199 reboot.

    Sorry, not waiting 181 years to watch a TV show.

  137. 137

    Trump is asking his people (fundraising? I’m not paying close attention to anything but the graphics) to vote on the emblem for the Space Force ™.

    Here are the emblems of the existing services (I left out the Coast Guard, sue me):

    And a certain resemblance noted:

  138. 138
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Doug R: You mean like efg? Gray Landsman??

  139. 139
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Ryan: You can get away with just through “Resurrection Ship” in the 2nd season. Then just pretend they all get back to earth and it’s all fine.

    You’ll save yourself a lot of time when re-watching the series. :)

  140. 140
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Trump is asking his people (fundraising? I’m not paying close attention to anything but the graphics) to vote on the emblem for the Space Force

    It looks like a symbol that actual military personnel would bully the owners out of their lunch money.

  141. 141
    LAO says:

    Crazy — don’t piss off a District Judge.

    DAMN! This is amazing.Judge orders plane carrying deported mother and child turned around, blocks more removals— Holly Figueroa O'Reilly 🌊 BWCS (@AynRandPaulRyan) August 9, 2018

  142. 142
    patroclus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: And I disagree. During WWII, FDR created all sorts of administrative agencies via EO, including the WRA, the OSS, the FEPC and a boatload of others – all without Congress. He even did it before the war with the REA, Exim and many many more. The thing was – they couldn’t do much of anything without Congressional authorization and appropriations. FDR fudged around with that for awhile but in 1944 Richard Russell got Congress to pass a statute (targeting the FEPC) that prohibited such agencies from having any appropriations and from doing anything after 1 year had expired without such “authorized by law” appropriations. It was a huge issue during WWII and Rayburn was able to overcome that (FDR was sick) by packaging all such FDR-created agency appropriations into a single bill – which passed because it was “for the war.” (not, however, in 1945, when the first real government shutdown occurred (once again because of the FEPC appropriation) but only for a few days).

    In my view, Trump could create something like that, but it wouldn’t have any money nor a full-blown authorization until Congress acted.

  143. 143

    @The Moar You Know: Why do you need all that, don’t your fillings work for you?

  144. 144
    LAO says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: @darth — turned the logos into “Space Farce” which honestly, is brilliant.

  145. 145
    The Moar You Know says:

    And that is before you get in to the kinds of electrical grounding.

    @EBT: Not going there. I’m a longtime radio guy, not an electrician or EE, and you can get yourself into lethal trouble with that very quickly if you don’t know exactly what you’re doing.

  146. 146
  147. 147
    joel hanes says:

    I can’t believe that no one has yet linked the video of Trump’s brilliant strategic vision.

    In A.D. 2101, war was beginning …

    Trump merely wants us to take off every Zig.
    For great justice.

  148. 148
    NeenerNeener says:

    @Hungry Joe: I could never get past page 50 in Titus Groan; it bored me to tears. I loved the mini-series they made out of it 10 years or so ago though, they translated all that descriptive text into wild scenery.

  149. 149
    Omnes Omnibus says:


    In my view, Trump could create something like that, but it wouldn’t have any money nor a full-blown authorization until Congress acted.

    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.

    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them?

  150. 150
    L85NJGT says:

    Laugh now, but by the time the Martians are in Grover’s Mill, it will be too late.

  151. 151
  152. 152
    The Moar You Know says:

    Why do you need all that, don’t your fillings work for you?

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Young enough and had few enough that they’re all non-metallic. All composite.

  153. 153
    Aleta says:

    A voting error has cut in half the lead Kris Kobach held over incumbent Gov. Jeff Colyer in the Republican primary for Kansas governor. Kobach, an anti-illegal immigration hard-liner who campaigned as a staunch ally of President Trump, originally had a 191-vote advantage over Colyer as of Wednesday. The latest adjustment means Kobach’s lead is reduced to 91 votes.

    On Thursday, the state elections office said there had been an error in transmitting votes from Thomas County in northwestern Kansas, according to Colyer campaign spokesman Kendall Marr. “It looks like someone may have flipped a key or something,” Marr told The Washington Post. “That error shortchanged Governor Colyer by 100 votes.”

    Colyer refused to concede the race Wednesday, saying there were still thousands of provisional and mail-in ballots left to count. This newly discovered error only reinforced his resolve, Marr said.
    Kobach on Wednesday acknowledged that the results of the race could change as provisional ballots were counted but said he would begin campaigning immediately as if he were the winner. “We have only three months [until the general election], and if we spend a week of that three months doing absolutely nothing, then we will have given our opponents a sizable lead in the footrace that we have,” Kobach said at a news conference Wednesday. “
    On Thursday, Colyer’s campaign said the governor, like Kobach, would also continue campaigning as if he would be representing the Republican Party in November. “Well, we are going to continue running as if we are the nominee at this point,” Marr said.
    Kansas law does not call for an automatic recount in close races. Candidates may request a recount, and the cost is borne by the candidate or the counties, depending on the result. … Kobach is not required by law to recuse himself from the recount process.

  154. 154
  155. 155
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @L85NJGT: Red Lectroids are already in the White House.

  156. 156
    Domestic short hair tabby (fka vheidi) says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: they’ll look nice on the summer intern’s resume, if they don’t want a job in graphic design

  157. 157
    Martin says:

    I would like to say, for the record, that when I was a kid in NY, the show aired as ‘Space Battleship Yamato’, not as StarBlazers. I don’t know why or what was going on there, but I watched the entire airing of Space Battleship Yamato – it was by far my favorite cartoon as a kid. It had a story arc! Who knew you could do that!

  158. 158
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @patroclus: So let me see if I’m following your argument. You’re arguing I’m wrong because in order for something like this to happen, checks your comment, Congress would have to authorize it with legislation and then appropriate money for it in other legislation.

    Yep, I’m clearly wrong:

    You win.

  159. 159
    oldster says:


    I’m not sure how much you are disagreeing. If it does not have any budget or any appropriations, then Trump has created nothing (beyond a cheesy logo?).

  160. 160

    @LAO: Notice that they have also changed “Mars Awaits” to “Wars Await.”

  161. 161
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: Somebody up the chain of command on this stupidy, or more likely several somebodies, is working their way towards being summoned by the judge and then held in contempt of court over this stuff.

  162. 162
  163. 163
    LAO says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I can’t believe I missed that!

  164. 164
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Somebody up the chain of command on this stupidy, or more likely several somebodies, is working their way towards being summoned by the judge and then held in contempt of court over this stuff.

    Nobody is guilty if everyone is guilty. //

  165. 165
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I certainly hope so. It’s egregious disrespect to the Court and any concept of law and order.

  166. 166
    patroclus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Good point, but it’d be more complicated. Trump could create a Space Force, appoint people to lead it, they could hold press conferences and do PowerPoints, and the media could cover it and everyone could pretend that it existed, but no one would be paid anything and it couldn’t actually do much of anything (and nothing after the expiration of 1 year). Like the tree in the forest, does it “exist”? He could also, in the EO, appoint people that were already being paid for doing something else, change reporting relationships, mandate the preparation of reports and studies and attempt to use funds appropriated for other purposes for his new agency. FDR did all of that and because most of his stuff was subsequently authorized by Rayburn and Congress, he got away with it most of the time (infuriating his critics). When did the REA or the FEPC start? FDR “created” the REA in 1935 but it didn’t exist per Congress until 1936. FDR created the FEPC in 1941, it was never authorized by Congress but it did receive regular appropriations in 1944-45. Did it “exist”? And when?

  167. 167
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: That logo, this Space Farce some kind of bid to get a Conservative (as in Christian, Whites only) Nasa to do Christian whites only science to disprove Climate Change, Evolution, Heliocentricism and prove magnets are a miracle of God? This is starting to sound like the Discovery Institute scam taken to an epic level.

  168. 168
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Adam L Silverman: you’re not the boss of me

  169. 169
    patroclus says:

    @oldster: Well, we’re disagreeing and not disagreeing. I think Adam is right, but I’m putting it differently. Whatever, it all depends on subsequent action by Congress. If they act, then it existed. if they don’t, then it didn’t (sort of), but it actually did, but just didn’t mean anything.

  170. 170

    Yes, that insanely overdetailed purple prose would definitely make for fantastic visuals. The writing is certainly imaginative.

    The judge said he’d start with Sessions.

  171. 171
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mike J: Well played!

  172. 172
    piratedan says:

    @Greg: nope, unless you’re referring to Cowboy BeBop

  173. 173
    jl says:

    @Mike J: Perfect Space Seal. The first mission of the space farce can be to rescue,from space, all the soybeans stranded at sea by the sinister Chinese tariff aggressions,

    Soybeans are stranded at sea in the US-China trade war

  174. 174
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Just One More Canuck: That’s what we want you to think. All part of the Elders’ plan…//

  175. 175
    piratedan says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: “Laugh while you can, Monkey Boy!”

  176. 176
    Adam L Silverman says:


    If they act, then it existed. if they don’t, then it didn’t (sort of), but it actually did, but just didn’t mean anything.

    I think you’re gonna need a flow chart.//

  177. 177
  178. 178
    Mike J says:

    @piratedan: We are not in the Eighth dimension, we are over New Jersey. Hope is not lost.

  179. 179
    L85NJGT says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    No matter where you go, there you are.

    Trapped in the darkest of all timelines – rights and development hell.

  180. 180

    @jl: Isn’t that more of the Navy’s job?

  181. 181

    @Mike J: If you’re in New Jersey, hope is indeed lost.

  182. 182
    FlyingToaster says:

    @Hungry Joe: Add another, though:
    @NeenerNeener: I read the trilogy AFTER seeing the miniseries. Ian Richardson as Lord Groan — 5 years after his brilliant performance as Francis Urquhart in The Final Cut (3rd installment of the original House of Cards) — was a complete wonder to behold.

  183. 183
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JPL: No argument here. Might focus a few folks attention on the mess they’ve made.

  184. 184
    MomSense says:

    @The Dangerman:

    I always thought Qaddafi looked like Mr. Brady from the Brady Bunch. Did anyone ever see them in the same place at the same time?

  185. 185


    many people missed the satire of Verhoeven’s movies and the original book.

    The original movie was obviously satire- and we have Verhoeven’s word on that- but I don’t think the book was. I think Heinlein was serious about the virtues of the society he was describing.

  186. 186
    jl says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: No way the Navy can rescue those beans from space. You can rescue them right away if you do it from space. That’s a job for TrumpStar Troopers!
    I heard Pence on the news this morning and he told me there were vital tasks the farce had to do right away. We need to find something asap.

  187. 187

    @jl: However, the Navy has a lot of experience with beans. Ever heard of Navy Beans? This Space Farce, who knows?

  188. 188
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Judge Sullivan's order requiring our clients to be returned to the United States and indicating that Sessions, Nielsen, and others will be required to personally appear in court and face potential contempt sanctions if they do not comply— Omar C. Jadwat (@OmarJadwat) August 9, 2018

  189. 189
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: Glad to know my instincts are correct.

  190. 190
    Hungry Joe says:

    Yeah, Peake’s prose can turn deep purple — but it’s always with a wink. Gotta quote a passage in which Swelter, the massive, horrific chef, and Mr. Flay, the #1 servant, happen to meet at the door to Lord Groan’s rooms:

    “Swelter’s eyes meet those of his enemy, and never was there held between two globes of gristle so sinister a hell of hatred. Had the flesh, the fibers, and the bones of the Chef and those of Mr. Flay been conjured away and away down that dark corridor leaving only their four eyes suspended in midair outside the Earl’s door, then surely they must have reddened to the hue of Mars, reddened and smoldered, and at last broken into flame, so intense was their hatred — broken into flame and circled about one another in ever-narrowing gyres and in swifter and yet swifter flight until, merged into one sizzlingl globe of ire, they must surely have fled, the four in one, leaving a trail of blood behind them in the cold gray air of the corridor, until, screaming as they fled beneath innumerable arches and down endless passageways of Gormenghast, they found their eyeless bodies once again, and retrenched themselves in startled sockets.”

    Peake is having FUN, dammit, and I find it great, great fun to read.

  191. 191
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Time to walk the dogs.

  192. 192
  193. 193
    CapnMubbers says:

    @NeenerNeener: Never made it past Titus Groan. Nor The Worm Ouroboros (Eddison).

  194. 194
    jl says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I think that you are more qualified than most Trumpsters to be on TrumpStar Troopers leadership team. You should send them your resume. Put down you are a conservative and went to Liberty University. I heard they don’t check.

    How about, the Navy can give them a battleship, and the Space Farce can tie on some rockets, just like in the cartoons. Gotta think out of the box to get this great idea off the ground.

  195. 195
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @The Moar You Know: Thank you sir, and Gin & Tonic. I’ll probably pop rivet a piece of sheet steel to the top of the cargo carrier.

  196. 196
    Martin says:

    @LAO: I don’t get the threat over contempt. The DHS and DOJ have lied to judges and Congress non-stop since this disaster started. They said they could match child with parent with a few keystrokes. FFS, put them in jail already.

  197. 197
    TenguPhule says:


    They said they could match child with parent with a few keystrokes.

    Actually they said this was someone else’s problem, not theirs.

    The judge was not amused.

  198. 198
    Lawrence says:

    @TenguPhule: That’s Ceti Alpha 5.

  199. 199
    Lawrence says:

    @Adam L Silverman: There’s also the space shuttle and space marine assault from the end of Moonraker.

  200. 200
    chopper says:

    given the fact that trump is stuck in the 80s, i’m willing to bet good money that instead of generals or admirals, the flag officers of the space force will be called either “darth” or “grand moff”.

  201. 201
    henqiguai says:

    Just a quick hit & run on a long dead thread. If the new 5 month old kitten will stop walking on the keyboard while I’m trying to type.

    First job out of college, Goddard Space Flight Center, semiconductor failure analysis. Spent a lot of time trawling through the NASA specifications library (necessary for testing regimens) and found some entertaining specs; e.g. Analysis, Feces, Human; and Analysis, Flatulence, Human. ‘Cause in a small tight can (space capsule) with an almost pure O2 atmosphere, things could get dicey. But the real find were the specs on orbital warfare, including ‘gyroguns’ and capsule mounted launchers. Who says NASA ain’t got no sense of humor.

  202. 202
    Tehanu says:

    @Roger Moore:

    The original movie was obviously satire- and we have Verhoeven’s word on that- but I don’t think the book was. I think Heinlein was serious about the virtues of the society he was describing.

    He was, to some degree, but the book was more of a thought experiment than a manifesto. Personally I prefer the younger Heinlein, the one who ran for Congress (I think) as a Socialist back in the ’30s, and who wrote the short story “Requiem” about a “Space Force” soldier who single-handedly stopped a military coup d’etat by destroying the bombs on the Moon that the generals were going to drop on Earth if they didn’t get their way.

  203. 203
    Another Scott says:

    Did you know that there’s a U.S. Space Force Elephant Medicine Corps?


  204. 204
    HumboldtBlue says:

    Youse are some nerd-tastic motherfuckers.

    And the weird wesbite stuff is happening again.

  205. 205
    Tehanu says:

    @jl: Don’t you mean big-eyed beans from Venus?

  206. 206
    Bemused senior says:

    @Tehanu: Agree. Also Man Who Sold the Moon, The Green Hills of Earth. So many great stories.

  207. 207
    MaryRC says:

    @Hungry Joe: I read “Titus Groan” and “Gormenghast” as a teenager but by the end of “Gormenghast” I started to find Peake’s world so claustrophobic that I could barely finish it and I never read the third one (which ironically takes Titus out of Gormenghast).

    I’ll tell you who else read the series — George R. Martin. There’s a shout-out in “A Song of Ice and Fire” to House Peake of Starpike. And the opening of “A Song of Ice and Fire” with Bran climbing the castle rooftops is straight out of Gormenghast.

    The BBC made a TV series out of the books a few years ago with Jonathan Rhys-Meyers as Steerpike and a cast of “Hey I know that guy” British actors. It was OK, but too pretty.

  208. 208

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