Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Dumbfellas

Throughout Monday, President Donald Trump’s lawyer and former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani went on a chaotic media tour, with each subsequent interview seeming to atone or clean up for a key element laid out in a previous appearance.

In an interview with The Daily Beast on Monday night, Giuliani appeared to blame the maelstrom he kicked up on inquisitive New York Times reporters who he suggested had compelled him to proactively spin a potentially damaging story that may or may not actually be real. Several veterans of the Trump campaign, like much of the viewing public, were left befuddled…

The day began with a morning interview with Fox & Friends, during which Giuliani insisted that “collusion [with Russian election-meddlers] is not a crime” in the first place. He then headed to CNN where he proceeded to, ostensibly, break a bit of news about the infamous Trump Tower meeting that the president’s son took with a Russian lawyer reportedly tied to Kremlin officials.

Two days before that meeting, Giuliani relayed, former Trump attorney and fixer Michael Cohen claimed that there was a separate meeting; this one, involving five people, including Cohen himself. According to Giuliani, three of the five people in that supposed meeting told him “it didn’t take place.” Not only that, they had done so “under oath on it and the other two couldn’t possibly reveal it because [Special Counsel Robert] Mueller never asked us about it.” …

To numerous observers, this was incredibly confusing and potentially damaging. There had never been reports of a planning meeting. And the Trump team had long insisted that the actual meeting itself was so innocent and irrelevant as to barely even register in their memories—which likely would not have been the case if they had been planning for it…

Giuliani told The Daily Beast that this included reporters from The New York Times, such as the paper’s star Trump reporter Maggie Haberman, who had reached out about the alleged pre-meeting meeting. So, he added, “Jay [Sekulow] and I spent a great deal of [Sunday] trying to run it down.”…


176 replies
  1. 1
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄😄😄

  2. 2
    lowtechcyclist says:

    Good morning back atcha!

  3. 3
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  4. 4
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    The White House said it did not comment on intelligence.

    Unless you are Russian.

  5. 5
    Chyron HR says:

    42% of Republicans: “Let’s wait for him to be proven innocent, which he will be unless it’s a rigged witch hunt.”
    9% of Republicans: “I know he did it but I don’t care because he’s on my team.”

  6. 6
    R-Jud says:

    Derp Throat.

  7. 7

    Yesterday our six year old woke me up at three in the morning and I couldn’t go back to sleep. Today it was a migraine that woke me up at four in the morning and I couldn’t go back to sleep. Good times…

  8. 8
    NorthLeft12 says:

    Note to Mr. Dworkin; Of that 42 and 9 per cent of Republicans who appear to be “reasonable”, I’ll guess that 85% of them will vote for Trump again, and exactly 100% of them will not support impeachment of Trump even if it is proven that he is an active Russian agent.

  9. 9
    satby says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning rikyrah and everyone 😊

    Lounging around drinking my ☕ before packing to leave. Really had a great time in NYC. Net my former coworkers for lunch yesterday, bummed around Battery Park and took the ferry to Staten Island. It’s just a great city! But time to head home and see what havoc happened while I was gone.

  10. 10
    Kay says:

    So this was what happened:

    Last week, The Daily Beast reported that Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO), one of the most vulnerable Senate Democrats in the upcoming midterm elections, was the target of an unsuccessful hacking attempt by Russia’s military intelligence agency, the GRU.
    In that attempted attack, some of McCaskill’s staffers received realistic-looking email notices instructing them to change their password. The link included in the email went to a fake password-change portal set up to capture any password entered.

    I guess there would have been a set of stolen emails which would have been portrayed as hugely scandalous, no matter the content?

    But “staffers” isn’t clear. Senators have “staffers” who work on senate business- they aren’t allowed to work on campaigns- and then they have campaign staff.

  11. 11
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    I wonder when the child endangerment charges will be filed against Jared and Ivanka.

  12. 12
    satby says:

    @NorthLeft12: Anecdotal only, but I was telling t he jackal meet up folks about an incident at the farmer’s market where some huge altercation occurred between a Trumpist and his neighbor farmer vendors. I only witnessed the aftermath, but the people I assumed were Republican diehards were all talking about how crazy the Trumpist guy was and didn’t he see what a horrible job Trump was doing, and how it was going to take years to fix the damage. This was the blood red Indiana crowd, all middle aged white folks. The sucking up to Russia is a bridge too far for all but the deep cultist I think. Still too many of them, but it gave me a tiny sliver of hope.

  13. 13
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Shitler just declared he is a “puppet of no one”. I wonder how Putin feels about being dissed by his subordinate? I

  14. 14
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    Maybe she emailed how much she loves Barack Obama. That would sink her in Missouri.

  15. 15
    satby says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: the kid knows she’s a prop, look at her face.

  16. 16
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning!☕

  17. 17
    Mary G says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Wow, she is eerily like her mother at that age except for the hair color. Creeps me out.

  18. 18
    Platonailedit says:

    Media – you would do us all a favor if you stopped letting Rudy Giuliani on your shows and stopped interviewing him for your news articles. He is propaganda- that shiny coins that distracts from the news and angles you should be covering. It’s a tactic.

    — Amy Siskind (@Amy_Siskind) July 31, 2018

    Yup, it’s a stupid tactic that the stupid msm plays for the stupid mass.

    Just a hint: Robert Mueller and our criminal justice system don’t give a shit about Rudy Giuliani’s cable-TV goalposts.

    — Amy Siskind (@Amy_Siskind) July 30, 2018

  19. 19
  20. 20
    MomSense says:

    @Kay:

    They went after Sheehan, too.

  21. 21
    trnc says:

    So… fearing a NYT story, Giuliani talked to five witnesses about the testimony they gave to Mueller, determined there was nothing to it, but nonetheless went on TV to preemptively defeat this non-story, then admitted to a reporter he talked to witnesses about their testimony?

    If Giuliani and Sekulow get tagged for witness tampering because Rudy was trying to fend off an incremental NYT story, we should throw a parade on Broadway.

    Talking to witnesses after they’ve testified isn’t witness tampering unless they’re expected to testify again and he’s trying to influence future testimony. Whatever way Drooliani is beclowning himself, it doesn’t look like witness tampering unless I’m missing part of the story.

  22. 22
    MattF says:

    When I got together earlier this year with my old friend who was a high-level Congressional staffer, I was a little surprised with her flat dismissal and ridicule of Giuliani– thinking that 15 or 20 years ago, Giuliani was a successful politician. But, apparently, he has always been a fool and a shithead. I have a lot of confidence in my old pal’s political judgement– she predicted Trump’s win.

    I guess it’s a detail, what with the unrelenting parade of inanities we see every day from everyone associated with Trump. But it does put up a big yellow flashing sign about Rick Wilson, who, once upon a time, ran a Giuliani mayoral campaign. I like Wilson’s style now, but he’s made some major political/personal errors that need to be kept in mind.

  23. 23
    MomSense says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I don’t know what to make of the expression on her face. Unsettling.

  24. 24
    Amir Khalid says:

    Surely things can’t go on like this. At some point even Trump must realise that Rudy G’s inept public statements are only screwing him over.

  25. 25
    MattF says:

    @A Ghost To Most: Putin probably finds it amusing.

  26. 26
    MomSense says:

    @MomSense:

    Shaheen

  27. 27
    MattF says:

    @Amir Khalid: Stein’s Law: If something can’t go on for ever, it will end.

  28. 28
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @trnc: Grand jury testimony is secret.

  29. 29
    Platonailedit says:

    Paul Manafort is set to go to trial on financial fraud charges starting today in United States District Court in Alexandria, VA.

    — Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) July 31, 2018

    Now, that’s newsworthy.

  30. 30
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @MomSense: Some kids enjoy being the center of attention.

  31. 31
    Kay says:

    @MomSense:

    I’m interested in whether they’re going after House candidates- how many, which ones. I hope we hear about it before the election instead of after the election. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. Campaigns have so many people in and around them. It’s almost inevitable that it succeeds eventually. Maybe they shouldn’t communicate thru email at all since every release will be treated as huge breaking news and misrepresented. We’ll get storylines like the ridiculous “Clinton hates Catholics” that was promoted.

    Part of my problem with this is it’s treated as part of an “ongoing investigation” so we get so little information. It’s useless to the public if they find out about it after the election.

  32. 32
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Not for the witnesses. They can talk.

  33. 33
    debbie says:

    @MomSense:

    “Ewwwwwwwwwww.”

  34. 34
    debbie says:

    @MattF:

    No one in Manhattan will tell you Rudi was ever successful. He has had periods of being tolerated, but nothing more than that.

  35. 35
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    They misspoke. They meant that the White House does not comment with intelligence.

  36. 36
    Bobby Thomson says:

    Note that 42 + 9 Rs (and 23 + 73 Ds) can potentially be swayed by the Mueller report

    HAHAHAHAHA

    Note that 42% of Republicans have about as much integrity as Paul Ryan (or less) and will fold faster than you can say sweet, sweet crack cuckane judges and tax cuts. It’s like all the psychological literature showing that facts don’t really change minds doesn’t exist.

  37. 37
    Baud says:

    @debbie: He was successful on winning two terms.

  38. 38
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    So Rudy all monday was basically this was more “Own Libtards” nonsense.

  39. 39
    Baud says:

    @A Ghost To Most: Being a puppet is not a crime.

  40. 40
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Some kids enjoy being the center of attention.

    Yes, but she was talking about Arabella, not Dipshit Donnie.

  41. 41
    Kay says:

    @MomSense:

    I was amused by the timing of Trump’s claim that the Russian government was working for Democrats. Immediately before the stories about 2018 interference against Democrats came out. Trump gets briefed on all this. He has way more information than we do, and he gets it ahead of us. He must think he died and went to heaven- he has an inside line to use whatever intelligence services find out about Russian interference in 2018, and HE can use it against Democrats. Our intelligence services are essentially feeding information about Democratic candidate’s vulnerabilties to the Trump Administration, who then use it against Democrats. Democratic candidates have to protect themselves from their own government.

  42. 42
    Haroldo says:

    @MomSense: I am reminded of The Bad Seed.
    .

  43. 43
    Baud says:

    Let’s leave the kid alone.

  44. 44
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: As I understand it, they are barred from talking because then others can coordinate their testimony. But what do I know, IANAL.

  45. 45
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @trnc: you really think those witnesses will never testify again? Bullshit.

  46. 46
    randy khan says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    Shitler just declared he is a “puppet of no one”. I wonder how Putin feels about being dissed by his subordinate?

    Not to worry – Putin told him to say that.

  47. 47
    MattF says:

    @Kay: True, but there’s a catch with that for Trump. He has no idea how stupid and guilty that preemptive self-exoneration makes him look. “What, me guilty?”

  48. 48
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    LAO would know for sure. Maybe she’ll show up and enlighten us.

  49. 49
    SFAW says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I wonder when the child endangerment charges will be filed against Jared and Ivanka.

    You are, as we say up heah in the wilds of Taxachusetts, “a pissah.”

    The photo was certainly not what I expected to see, but it was definitely a winnah.

  50. 50
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Bobby Thomson: Heh.

  51. 51
    SFAW says:

    @trnc:

    Whatever way Drooliani is beclowning himself, it doesn’t look like witness tampering unless I’m missing part of the story.

    I think the term “witnesses” was used in the “participants” or “observers” sense, not in the “persons giving testimony under oath” sense. Which would mean they may not have given sworn testimony at this time.

  52. 52
    Cermet says:

    @Baud: You miss the fact that his success was mainly thanks to Roe v. Wade and the removal of lead from fuels; those are the real reasons all violent crimes went down in all major cities and he just happen to be doing the std “tough on crime” (which has never worked) and then took credit for these actual causes; not his illegal “stop and frisk” polices, by the way – that did appeal to the fascist in NY but never really had any affect on crime.

  53. 53
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: If she shows up after I leave, ask and let me know tomorrow.

  54. 54
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    Only because enough people thought declaring war on squeegee men was a great thing.

  55. 55
    Baud says:

    @Cermet:

    You’re just saying that his success is undeserved. I agree. But he was successful in winning the mayoralty for 8 years.

  56. 56
    rikyrah says:

    @satby:
    Riding the Staten Island Ferry is one of my favorite things to do in NYC😄

  57. 57
    Kay says:

    American Kingpin: The Epic Hunt for the Criminal Mastermind Behind the Silk Road

    The unbelievable true story of the man who built a billion-dollar online drug empire from his bedroom – and almost got away with it
    In 2011, a 26-year-old libertarian programmer named Ross Ulbricht launched the ultimate free market: the Silk Road, a clandestine website hosted on the Dark Web where anyone could trade anything – drugs, hacking software, forged passports, counterfeit cash, poisons – free of the government’s watchful eye.

    I’m reading this book and it’s good, but he didn’t “almost get away with it”. In fact, he’s completely delusional about how he’s “safe” for almost the entire term of the website while they are busily closing in on him. They’re picking up his customers almost from the get-go and he still manages to convince himself they will never find him, probably because he pays absolutely no attention to what is happening outside his fevered little libertarian bubble. He could give a shit what happens to his customers. This was a doomed enterprise from the moment it launched. Postal inspectors with no budget and no technology intercepted transactions almost immediately and they did it based purely on their experience looking at the OUTSIDE of envelopes and parcels and handling the (sealed) envelopes and parcels. They see millions of pieces of mail over years. They know an odd piece when they see one and it doesn’t take long until they see a pattern. Just ordinary individuals. Not AI or elaborate security. The same way they’ve been doing it for 150 years.

    Not so much a criminal mastermind as incredibly arrogant – he thought he was smarter than everyone else.

    Still, with all that, I think his (life) sentence was ludicrous- INSANELY harsh. The US should cut sentences in half across the board. Start there. Our prison sentences are CRAZY long. Mandatory maximums are what we need to remedy the mandatory minimums madness.

  58. 58
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Dumbfellas image needz moar Pence.

    eta: need more coffee

  59. 59
    Starfish says:

    @Mary G: That is her mother’s real hair color.

  60. 60
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Baud: Is that you, Rudy?

  61. 61
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    Witnesses to the Grand jury can talk about their own testimony before the GJ. They are often asked not to, which is a great relief to witnesses because they then tell everyone, “I’m not supposed to talk about it.”
    In certain cases, a court will order a witness (and his attorney) not to discuss what happened in the GJ, but that is rare. Also, GJ witnesses with immunity or plea aggreements often have a secrecy clause in the agreement….

    But generally, witnesses are free to talk about what they know and what they don’t know.

  62. 62
    Kay says:

    @Platonailedit:

    You wonder why they don’t see the plain unfairness of it- that the Trump Administration can attack Mueller personally- his integrity- and Mueller can’t speak and defend himself. It was the same thing with the federal judge Trump attacked. These people are BARRED from addressing the attacks, and media have no problem allowing a platform for one side knowing there won’t be any defense. That’s where Comey’s (giant) ego came into play. It wasn’t about “transparency”- it was about James Comey wanting to defend himself so breaking rules to do so.

  63. 63
    Starfish says:

    @Kay: Remember, in the Clinton campaign, they got an intern. Getting low-level staffers gives them access to more information that lets them go after higher value systems and targets.

  64. 64
    captnkurt says:

    In the Dumbfellas poster up there, can someone explain “That DRE” to me?

  65. 65
    JPL says:

    @Baud: I agree, and someone needs to inform the president of that.

  66. 66
    rikyrah says:

    However bad your day is going… it’s gotta be doing better than Paul Manafort’s 😄😄😄

    https://twitter.com/voxdotcom/status/1024252085192335360

  67. 67
    MattF says:

    @rikyrah: Manafort got away with it until Donald Trump showed up. I wouldn’t exactly give Trump credit for that, but there is something about Trump’s hiring criteria.

  68. 68
    Kay says:

    @Starfish:

    Yeah, they’re eager to please and don’t have experience so they would take directions easily. I don’t think I’d communicate using email. You could get around it. The problem isn’t the hacking so much- it’s how the emails will be presented- as secret communications full of malicious trickery. There’s the problem that the release is one-sided too- no one saw Trump campaign emails and this is a choice between two candidates, not an unlimited number of candidates. If one side’s emails are stolen and released and the other sides are not it’s not a fair fight. There’s nothing to compare them to- no context.

  69. 69
    clay says:

    @Kay:

    Still, with all that, I think his (life) sentence was ludicrous- INSANELY harsh. The US should cut sentences in half across the board.

    Well sure, but it’s hard to know ahead of time how to sentence someone for half his life.

  70. 70
    Platonailedit says:

    @MattF:

    The treasonous thug’s turd touch. It spares none.

  71. 71
    captnkurt says:

    @clay: Easy! Prison Days: Monday, Wednesday, Friday, every other Sunday, otherwise you’re free.

  72. 72
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: Thanx.

    “I’m not supposed to talk about it.”

    That’s where I got the idea.

  73. 73
    Kay says:

    Ida Bae Wells
    ‏@nhannahjones
    24h24 hours ago
    More
    I cannot say how impressed I am that the school @kingjames is opening today to serve low-performing students is a traditional public school. Instead of taking resources from the Akron Public Schools, he is adding to them. This is doing the work. Bravo.

    It will be really hard, but really fun, too, making a great public school. What I have learned on a public school committee is it’s just really difficult. We work on just attendance- just getting them to school- and it’s slow going. Our elementary school principal goes out to their houses if they’re chronically absent and finds them. One by one. You can’t do anything if they’re not there, which James knows- he missed 80-some days in 4th grade. I’m so pulling for them to succeed at this school.

  74. 74
    Platonailedit says:

    Your regular reminder that under @realDonaldTrump, the US gave up military readiness exercises but North Korea has NOT:

    -Eliminated any nukes

    -Eliminated any missiles

    -Eliminated any chem weapons

    Now it appears #NorthKorea is building NEW missiles.

    https://t.co/QfeLhMTqJ2— Ted Lieu (@tedlieu) July 31, 2018

    Singapore PM must feel foolish for spending what, 15 mil?, on that shitshow.

  75. 75
    MattF says:

    @Platonailedit: Here is more detail about the Korean shitshow.

  76. 76
    oldgold says:

    Trump correctly claims that he could shoot someone in broad daylight on Fifth Avenue and suffer few, if any, political consequences.

    Today, Trump has done something worse, at least in terms of right wing politics, and may actually incur the sustained ire of GOP pols and insiders as a consequence.

    He attacked the Koch Brothers.

  77. 77
    Baud says:

    @oldgold:

    Meh. That changes nothing except a few people on the internet will yell about how he’s running to the left.

  78. 78
    Platonailedit says:

    @oldgold:

    Guess the koch bros must be po’ed for losing their insider scot prurient douchebag.

  79. 79
    VOR says:

    @Platonailedit: But Singapore did nothing wrong and it was good PR establishing Singapore as a neutral, honest broker which even the worst of enemies could trust to be neutral. There was worldwide press which was positive about Singapore’s role.

  80. 80
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @rikyrah: I think Paul Fucking Manafort is in for a world of hurt. I couldn’t be happier. I hope he dies in prison.

  81. 81
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: In this case it’s the Koch brothers who are *supposedly* running to the left. Apparently, after they got their taxcut they weren’t too happy about having to pay it back in the form of increased steel and aluminum pricing.

  82. 82
    oldgold says:

    Well, the Koch Brothers were planning on spending $400 million on the mid-term elections.

  83. 83
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @oldgold: Trump doesn’t control the Riechwing Media. Trump gets seen as bad for the billionaires who fund that stuff Trump’s going to see all kind of odd things in his polling.

  84. 84
    satby says:

    @MomSense: hi MomSense! Missed you yesterday, hope things are going a bit better for you!

  85. 85
    bemused says:

    The DumbFellas movie poster is great but Rudy’s photo is way too flattering.

    So creepy Sessions talking up his religious liberty plot said “We’ve” seen nuns forced to use contraceptives. We who? Where? How? I don’t think I’ll ever not be shocked by what comes out of these lunatics mouths.

  86. 86
    Leto says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’ve been laughing at this for a few days now. They basically created this monster, now they’re mad that it’s escaped and attacking them. I feel like I’ve seen this shitty movie before.

  87. 87
    NotMax says:

    @satby

    Didn’t mention it at the time; fingers were crossed the taxi you got did not have a medallion owned by Michael Cohen.

    :)

    Have an uneventful trip back.

  88. 88
    bemused says:

    @Leto:

    I’ve noticed far right people never seem to ask themselves “What could possibly go wrong?” with their agendas. They’re like children in believing in fantasies, what they want, they will always get.

  89. 89
    MattF says:

    @bemused: The fantasy generally involves being the secret (financial or political) power broker behind the throne. It’s been tried and has failed many, many times. Just not the way these things work– you hire thugs, the thugs will take over.

  90. 90
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    All it takes is one ratfucker on the jury to hang it.

  91. 91

    OT site related question:
    I had trouble loading this website all of yesterday, anyone else have that problem

  92. 92

    As for Koch brothers turning left I will have to see it before I believe it. I am not the trusting sort.

  93. 93
    MattF says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Yeah, there was a period of about a half hour where I couldn’t load it.

  94. 94
    MomSense says:

    @satby:

    Thanks, Satby. I’m ok. Just need to make some changes. Really happy you had a nice time in New York.

  95. 95
    rp says:

    Haberman’s role in this is interesting. Did she contact Giuliani to give him a heads up and allow him to undermine the Times’ story? I wonder if Giuliani let the cat out of the bag and now she’s pissed.

    It would be irresponsible not to speculate…

  96. 96
    rikyrah says:

    They are all in it together. Which is why if Dolt45 goes down, THEY ALL DO

    …………………………………………………………
    Found at TPV:

    The client list of uCampaign’s app, Conservative Campaigner, financed by ultra-Catholic Mercer ally Sean Fieler, and developed by a Soviet-trained Ukrainian programmer, provides a veritable road map for Mueller of Russia’s infiltration of the right and misuse of personal data. The GOP, NRA, Trump-Pence, Rand Paul, Vote Leave..

    https://ucampaignapp.com/#clients

  97. 97

    @MattF: For me it was pretty much all day yesterday. I had serious withdrawal symptoms.

  98. 98
    Jeffro says:

    SO. MUCH. GOOD NEWS TODAY! (besides Manafort going on trial)

    First, here is a sign of just how desperate the GOP is with less than 100 days until the mid-terms: Even If You Loathe Donald Trump, Vote Republican. I say, LOL!

    Brought to you by Betty’s favorite “ambulatory cream cheese sculpture”! I don’t know whether there are more laffs than lies in this part

    This president talks — and tweets — loudly, and often to the confusion of his home audience, but he carries and has used the very biggest of sticks. When the U.S. military pummeled Russian mercenaries in Syria, Moscow got the clearest message anyone can get anywhere. The Iranians will be treated to the same if they challenge an American vessel at sea or critical infrastructure at home. Russians meddle again with our elections at their genuine peril.

    This coalition hasn’t been easy, but the GOP will be fine. But what Trump has done to the Democrats and the establishment media won’t be undone for a long time. He has radicalized both into engines of extremist rhetoric and policy. They will blame Trump, of course, for their outrage and sputtering, and he deserves a lot of the blame (or credit, depending on your point of view). Trump intentionally incites his opponents with mockery and disdain. So did Barack Obama. So did all of the legions of George W. Bush opponents when politics began going off the rails.

    So here’s the question facing the voters this fall: Do they vote to ratchet up this culture of conflict and chaos, or to return Republican legislative majorities that have figured out how to work with this most unusual of presidents?

    Electing Democrats to a majority in the House or the Senate at the height of the party’s lurch left would be a disaster: Impeachment, demands for massive income tax hikes and the effort to abolish ICE would follow, while also throwing the military rebuild into reverse and the economy into paralysis because of the inability of business to predict the future with anything like certainty. A radicalized Democratic Party puffed by a Trump-loathing Manhattan-Beltway elite wouldn’t bring us a political environment as fraught as 1861 or even 1968, but the Clinton impeachment and the Watergate scandal eras are fair parallels to the atmosphere that would follow if Rep. Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) returns to power or Sen. Charles E. Schumer (N.Y.) gets his wish to run the Senate.

    See what I mean? You could parse that down into 3-word segments and you’d find a lie in each one.

    Moving on, I see that Brooksie refuses to let Hewitt one-up him in the “both-sides bullshit” contest: The Third-Party Option

    Translation: that ain’t a blue tsunami…that’s a biblical flood a-comin’ and rather than look at why that is, I’m gonna pretend both sides suck. But if it comes to it, I find the white male Dem candidate oddly appealing compared to those…others…

    Is there room for a third party? If some independent mounted a presidential bid in 2020, would that person have a chance?

    Those are questions we won’t be able to answer for a few years. If the Democrats nominate somebody like Mitch Landrieu, the answer is no. Landrieu is a progressive former mayor of New Orleans whose personal style would play well with the white working class and whose convictions and history play well with African-Americans and other groups. A Democrat like Landrieu would occupy all the non-Trump space and make a meaningful third-party run impossible.

    But suppose the Democrats nominate one of the senators who are now sprinting leftward to catch up with what they perceive to be the Democratic base.

    Hmm…I do wonder WHICH Democratic senators he’s referring to…anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

    And finally, no links needed, I’ll just note that in the past 24-48 hours:
    – Trumpov has gone after the Kochs
    – Ryan vs Jordan is heating up
    – The GOP is considering…no, seriously!…another $100B tax cut strictly for the rich! FOR REALZ!!
    – Trumpov’s sticking by his threat to shut down the government (despite the Rs’ hold on all three branches of government)
    And yeah, Paul Manafort’s going on trial today, and Michael Cohen is gonna cut a nice deal by the end of this week.

    Bye, July, it’s been fun! August, gimme a second to buckle up…

  99. 99
    NotMax says:

    Night at the theater yesterday. To be most charitable, the play was rough around the edges. Yet it’s fascinating to watch something which by rights ought to have been a workshop and see how they manage with miscast or not ready for prime time actors and singers. Off-off-Broadway production, although in a theater a just off Times Square; Tickets were very inexpensive.

    Great dinner at Broadway institution Carmine’s, known fot moving heaven and Earth to get you fed and on your way in time to make the curtain. Also for portions large enough to feed the cast of 42nd Street. Veal marsala was quite nice, with tons of mushrooms.

  100. 100
    germy says:

    Democrats: Abolishing ICE? *scratches head* Gee, are we sure? Seems drastic. Maybe we can cut funding? Reorganize the agency a bit? Have we focus grouped this?

    Republicans: We would like to do an illegal $100 billion capital gains tax cut for rich people.

    — Osita Nwanevu (@OsitaNwanevu) July 30, 2018

  101. 101
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @MattF: The fantasy generally involves being the secret (financial or political) power broker behind the throne. It’s been tried and has failed many, many times. Just not the way these things work– you hire thugs, the thugs will take over.

    as Pompeo is finding out as he now has to answer questions about the North Koreans laughing at him, the Russians laughing at him (and all of us) and now his buffoon of a boss wanting to open up talks with Iran– which if it were just about any other president, I’d be all for. I wonder how BiBi and Jared’s pal in Riyadh took that news.

  102. 102
    Jeffro says:

    @Jeffro: whoops forgot link to Brooksie: here you go (sorry/not sorry)

  103. 103

    @Jeffro: You know why he wants to shut the government because the current appropriation bills has some bipartisan measures that will provide some relief to immigrants.

  104. 104
    Leto says:

    @bemused: @MattF: I think MattF kind of hits the nail on the head with regard to how the Kochs work, especially if you remember that one of them (I think it was David) tried to run on the libertarian ticket in 1980 as VP and failed. They thought it would be easier to take over the Republican party, as most of the groundwork had been laid back in the 50s with the Birch Society and other wingnut publications. It worked for a while as they continued to fund more and more conservative ventures (Heritage Foundation, all the law schools, religious stuff), but the cray cray couldn’t be contained. It was self-amplifying and reinforcing, a positive feedback loop. Now they’re sitting back going, wtf? Where did it veer off? They own all of this. This is is their monster that’s running amok and of course we’re having to deal with it.

  105. 105
    germy says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I had trouble loading this website all of yesterday, anyone else have that problem

    Yes, and today I get invalid certificate notifications.

  106. 106
    MattF says:

    @Jeffro: The political contortion in that op-ed is formidable. Head so far up ass he has to open his mouth to blow his nose.

  107. 107
    germy says:

    @Leto: So in a battle between drumpf and the kochs, who wins?

  108. 108

    @Jeffro: I read that. Free of logic and decency.

  109. 109
    Steve in the STL says:

    @germy: Putin

  110. 110
    chris says:

    @schrodingers_cat: See Anne Laurie’s post from last night. Trouble with a large router in Boston.

  111. 111
    Humdog says:

    Anne Laurie had a post yesterday about a giant router down in New England hindering access to FIOS sites.

  112. 112
    Aleta says:

    Man puts out Southend Pier fire by peeing on it
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-45018213

  113. 113
    Aleta says:

    Thanks for all the funny quotes AL.
    One of these days we will have that parade on Broadway.

  114. 114
    Lee says:

    Holy shit the douchbags are out in force today trying to save their nazi brand.

    Hugh Hewitt Even if you loathe Trump, vote Republican

    David Brooks Vote Third Party

  115. 115
    satby says:

    @NotMax: 😆 that thought momentarily occurred to me too.
    Thanks, it was great meeting you!

  116. 116
    Kay says:

    @clay:

    Well sure, but it’s hard to know ahead of time how to sentence someone for half his life

    It’s just SO out of whack with “reasonable”. The recommendation was something like 4 life sentences. Anything longer than 10 should be examined. You look at other countries and you see 7,8,9 for serious crimes. Ours are “life”.

    Kasich actually did this. He pegged a whole category of crimes down by executive order, quietly, no fuss. It’s the single contribution he made to this state, but it’s a good one.

  117. 117
    satby says:

    @MomSense: you know, my house is a while ‘nother kind of chaos, but if you need a totally different break come stay with me.

  118. 118
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

                 ELWOOD

    It’s 106 miles to Manfort’s trial.
    We got a full tank of gas,
    halfa pack of cigarettes…
    it’s dark and we’re wearing
    sunglasses.

                    JAKE

    Hit it.

  119. 119
    danielx says:

    @Jeffro:

    Beat me to it….I’d just noticed that Brooks’ column today has one of those giveaway Brooks titles. You know, the kind where you don’t have to read the content to know what it’s about.

    The Third Party Option

    Disclaimer: have not read it. However, I will bet ten dollars against a stale doughnut that this is yet another of those Brooksian fantasies in which the nice, sane Republicans who exist only in his imagination join nice, sane, safe Democrats of his who don’t care about things like indictments and income inequality and climate change. They date for a while, elect some unnamed ideal candidate in 2020. Then they sail off into the sunset together to live happily ever after in some nice, safe place of comity and both-sides-do-it. A place where, not so incidentally, David Brooks’ taxes don’t go up.

    To paraphrase TBogg: David, you don’t live there. Grow the fuck up.

  120. 120
    Jeffro says:

    I guess this somehow merited its front page headline article today? White Workers In The Minority At This Pennsylvania Chicken Plant Struggle To Adapt.

    I mean, I’m sure it’s difficult when one is in the minority in some way…perhaps that could cause a bit of enlightenment instead of panic? “Ah, so this is what other folks go through all the time. I get it now, at least a little.” Could we hear that once in a while, national media – do a little digging and find someone for whom it’s an eye-opening experience?

    Interesting section here, though:

    “That big place right back there,” [Heaven, the white female focus of the story] said. “That’s the Ace Hardware I want to apply at. Isn’t it opening in June?”

    “It’s already open,” her father replied, and she started thinking of all of the possibilities of working there — conversations, friends, belonging — rather than the reality of what awaited her hours later, which was another bin full of raw chicken legs, and Salvador [a Hispanic female co-worker of Heaven’s] again making her way toward the back of the line to pick it up. Heaven watched Salvador coming, annoyed. Why couldn’t she learn English? Why was it up to Heaven to change? Salvador was the newcomer, not her.

    What Heaven didn’t know was that Salvador agreed with her. She thought it was her responsibility to learn English, too. She’d grown up seeing Americans come through her town along the Dominican Republic’s northern coast, and had dreamed of following them back to the United States. But when she finally got here in April 2017, all she’d found was a sick mother, who had sponsored her green card but whom she now had to care for, endless household chores and a 45-minute commute from their home in Reading, Pa., to a chicken plant where there was no need to learn English because everyone spoke Spanish. So now, nearly as monolingual as when she arrived, all she did when she reached the back of the line was smile at Heaven, who smiled back, then wheel the chicken away.

  121. 121
    Jeffro says:

    @Jeffro: what is it with me forgetting links this morning? Here you go.

  122. 122
    Jeffro says:

    @Lee: I like your shorter version better than mine at #98 ;)

  123. 123
    Jeffro says:

    @danielx: it starts off that way, then rapidly devolves into “the solution is to take power away from the federal government and give it to Utopian civic wonderlands, where people don’t fight over shit”. Clearly the man has never been to a county board meeting.

    It’s another variation of “the browns and wimminz are taking over (ESPECIALLY IF THE DEMS NOMINATE WHITE GUY MITCH LANDRIEU BTW!) so the solution is to break things down into governing units that can still be controlled by non-browns and non-wimminz”. ymmv

  124. 124
    rikyrah says:

    @germy:

    but, i was told, there’s no difference between the parties.

  125. 125
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Bobby Thomson: I was thinking that if she hoped to be the center of attention she was with the wrong person.

  126. 126
    satby says:

    @Jeffro: of course, we need these immigrants coming here to work, but corporations got out of the employee enrichment / OTJ training years ago. There would be enormous value in offering basic English language classes to their employees who need them, but the CEO might have to forgo a half-million or so in compensation.

  127. 127
    Leto says:

    @germy: Interesting thought experiment: Kochs control the money, but Trumpov controls the base. I’m going with Kochs because money lives longer. They can lay low for a while, potentially let this strain of crazy die out, re-engage when the time is right. Think of it terms of sports team: they’re in rebuilding mode. Take a few seasons to re-establish themselves. Find a new coach, get some new players, rebuild the organization. They’re still doing very well in the conservative law sector, getting conservative dipshits into the life-time judicial appointments, but having their malleable puppets in the state houses/federal chambers is hard at the moment. They’re like a cancer going into remission before being found 10 years later, back and destroying the body.

    Also I hate using the sports analogy because it trivializes the very real consequences of what they’re doing, but it’s the best description atm.

  128. 128
    rikyrah says:

    Stefan Bondy (@SBondyNYDN) Tweeted:
    On CNN, LeBron James said Donald Trump created an environment where people are more comfortable being racist. Asked what he’d say to Trump if he were seated at the interview, LeBron answered, “I would never sit across from him.” https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN/status/1024136171616706562?s=17

  129. 129
    rikyrah says:

    Dolt45 say that he doesn’t know what to think about 3D guns.

    Keith Boykin (@keithboykin) Tweeted:
    Why does the president of the United States have to check in with the NRA to decide what he thinks? https://t.co/TJ7ATwEAlQ https://twitter.com/keithboykin/status/1024274043539779585?s=17

  130. 130
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @SFAW: I read that as meaning 3 of the 5 were willing to say it didn’t take place and that it was not meant to be taken as a factual statement.

  131. 131
    Manyakitty says:

    @Kay: One of my friends developed the curriculum and helped get the school up and running. From what she’s told me, it’s going to be even more amazing than the press.

  132. 132
    Jeffro says:

    @satby: McDs is already offering ESL classes and community college (possibly even 4-year college?) tuition to its workers. Yay fast food industry! /sad

  133. 133
    tobie says:

    @germy: I have to say I find the Nwanevu tweet annoying. It’s a perfect example of True Progressive™ PR tactics: construct a straw man (establishment Dems are weak), point to rightwing boldness (yet more tax breaks for billionaires), and then suggest that Dems do something bold (Abolish ICE!), even if in policy terms it’s hard to imagine any nation without some immigration and customs authority (one of the oldest governing functions in political philosophy). I really think we’re witnessing the Reaganization of the Democratic Party. Reduce all matters to sound bytes which can help you win elections, even if they have no way of being implemented as policy. It’s been interesting to see the Democratic candidate for Governor in Maryland Ben Jealous get roasted for tax and healthcare proposals which–shocker–turn out to have no meat. Cui bono? The Republicans, who will once again occupy the governor’s mansion in a blue state.

  134. 134
    Jeffro says:

    @rikyrah: He’s had a lot to say this morning, that’s for sure. Had no idea that all media will dry up and blow away once he’s out of office (what did they cover before 2015, I wonder?)

  135. 135
    danielx says:

    @Jeffro:

    Yep, Brooksian fantasy. Again. Yet another reason to make me wonder why the FNTY pays him in the upper six figures a year to recycle the same tired drivel in the most valuable op ed territory in the land.

    Same shit, different day.

  136. 136
    trnc says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Grand jury testimony is secret.

    Are you sure? I thought that the panel members were restricted from talking, but that witnesses had no such restrictions.

    Ah, found it. “If you are a grand jury witness, you have the right to tell the whole world about your grand jury testimony.”
    https://www.wisenberglaw.com/Articles/The-Federal-Grand-Jury-Ten-Tips-for-the-Unwary.shtml

  137. 137
    germy says:

    @Leto:

    Interesting thought experiment: Kochs control the money, but Trumpov controls the base. I’m going with Kochs because money lives longer.

    Yes, that’s what I was thinking. They’ve been building their own infrastructure for decades. If they decide to, they can instruct their allies (in the media, in congress$, in the courts) to go after him. They certainly control public opinion, so they might swing the base over to their side. I honestly don’t know.

  138. 138
  139. 139
    germy says:

    @tobie: ICE is younger than Emma González.

  140. 140
    Steeplejack says:

    @NotMax:

    If it’s not a state secret, what play did you see?

  141. 141
    trnc says:

    @Bobby Thomson: I don’t know, Bob. That’s why I put the “unless they’re expected to testify again.”

    Believe me, I would be extremely happy to see Drooliani hit with witness tampering indictments, provided they have a long enough piece of paper to list all the other indictments.

  142. 142
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @oldgold: And that single event is making me feel more optimistic that I have in what seems like millenia but is actually months.

  143. 143

    @tobie: @germy: Even if you call it by another name, an enforcement arm of the immigration bureaucracy will exist. INS did what USCIS and ICE do before Dept of Homeland Security was formed. This is going to be another LTT shibboleth like single payer and free college.

  144. 144
    satby says:

    @Jeffro: because their workers have to interact with English speaking customers, so it benefits them. They’ve offered college tuition for years, a lot of companies still do because they can welsh on the deal if the employee doesn’t make a minimum grade level and usually to get the tuition benefit you have to commit to staying with the company some number of years, or pay it back. Better than nothing I guess, but not really a fan of indentured servitude.

  145. 145
    tobie says:

    @germy: So is the Department of Homeland Security, which I would like to see eradicated. But there will always be some immigration and customs authority in government and a slogan like “Abolish ICE” doesn’t seem to get that. I’m fine with “Replace ICE” for instance. Why by the way the exclusive focus on ICE? Border Patrol strikes me as equally problematic.

    ETA: I suck at slogans but something like “Immigration Law, Not Immigration War” would come closer to questioning ICE and CBP in their current configuration.

  146. 146
    The Moar You Know says:

    I hope he dies in prison.

    @Gin & Tonic: So does he. The alternatives for him are pretty fucking grim at this point: some polonium tea or some nice Novichok perfume samples.

    He’s gone from “asset” to “loose end” pretty quickly. Probably some object lesson here about getting greedy with the Russians that I’m sure our nation’s leaders will ignore.

  147. 147

    @tobie: Because LTTs care for slogans more than they do for effective policy, just like their saint in Vt.

  148. 148
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Iran is refusing to talk to him. Glad to see that SOMEONE has some standards.

  149. 149
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @tobie: a lot people on the left, not just the Rose-tweeters but a lot of more centrist types, are frustrated that Dem voters and R voters respond differently to different proposals. If people who are more or less inclined to vote D aren’t angry about things they should be angry about (and from Russia to corruption to the tax bill to the border, I agree, people should be really fucking angry– and maybe they are, we won’t know until November), it must be because the Dem leadership is weak. I have stylistic beefs with Pelosi and a few more substantive beefs with Schumer, but there’s nothing Dems aren’t saying. The water is there, the horses don’t seem as thirsty as we think they should be. Also, people don’t like paying taxes.

    It’s like at the 2012 convention when Bill Clinton’s speech got so much favorable press, and a lot of the knee-jerk critics were saying “Why can’t Obama make the case for his own presidency that Clinton can?” Bubba didn’t say anything that Obama, and Biden, and their surrogates weren’t saying for months. But Bubba was then the (white) ex-president who wasn’t running for anything, the man from the time before everything went to hell. People were more receptive to the message from him. And he had that one great (maybe) ad-libbed shot at Paul Ryan’s “brass”

  150. 150
    Leto says:

    @germy: I don’t know either. Personally I think that they remain dormant for a few cycles so that they can then run the same playbook: Dems in control, “See? Country is going to hell! We need tax cuts, less regulation, more free market enterprise solutions!”. You know, the usual routine.

  151. 151
    germy says:

    @tobie: I agree.

  152. 152
    tobie says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think you’re right that some of this is a matter of style and messaging and getting your base ginned up. And this has always been tougher for Democrats than for Republicans because we are genuinely a big tent with multiple constituencies and multiple interests, whereas Republicans are pretty homogeneous. What’s changed is that there’s a faction in the party that has declared war on the party, and this faction is convinced that they are the voice of the people. One person who gives me hope is Stacey Abrams who has been successful in bringing together the various wings of the Democratic Party. I checked out the issues page of her website the other day–it’s very focused on Georgia, the things that can be done in that state. All this is to say–she’s defining herself in ways that are compelling and don’t needlessly alienate potential allies.

  153. 153
    Elizabelle says:

    @tobie:
    @germy:

    Had never heard of Osita Nwanevu (with Slate, apparently) until yesterday, when he turned up in a Jonathan Chait article at NY Mag: Why Are So Many Leftists Skeptical of the Russia Investigation?

    Be forewarned. These are not our allies.

    As you move from the right to the left of the ideological spectrum, skepticism of the Russia scandal gives way to suspicions that it covers up something serious. But somewhere on the left, right around the fault line where Barack Obama is deemed to have been a bad president, opinion turns back again toward skepticism.

    The purest form of this sentiment on the far left is a vein of attacks that are almost indistinguishable from Republican rhetoric about the investigation. [discussion of Greenwald, that fucker]

    Situated just to the right of this faction is a slightly less extreme form of skepticism about the Russia investigation. It does not justify or deny Russian hacking. Instead it criticizes liberals for caring too much about Russia, and posits that the Russia fixation is somehow preventing the left from prosecuting a populist case against Trump. [Because the USA is leftier than left, correct? Uh, no.]

    This is an argument more of mood and tone, relying more on implicit contrast than frontal challenge to the Mueller investigation.
    Commenters like Katherine Krueger at Splinter, Seth Ackerman and Corey Robin at Jacobin, and Osita Nwanevu at Slate have all expressed versions of this soft Russiagate skepticism. These critics do not all agree with each other on every point, but share certain overlapping tendencies. They are mostly or entirely willing to accept the known facts of the investigation. But they assume little else of importance will come of the investigation, and above all consider the issue to be overblown, a distraction at best, and the seeds of a dangerous backlash at worst.

    “Putin didn’t single-handedly elect Trump over Clinton,” writes Krueger, rebutting an accusation that nobody has made.

    … the left may be underestimating the potential vulnerability the Mueller probe has opened up for the administration. A poll in May found that most Americans do not realize Mueller has uncovered any crimes, and that the news that he has indeed done so impresses them. It stands to reason that guilty pleas or convictions would have a pronounced impact on public opinion. If nothing else, it would be harder for Trump to harp on crime if his 2020 opponent can counter that Trump and/or his cronies are themselves a bunch of criminals.

    …. Some of the skeptics complain that Democrats are emphasizing Russia too heavily, but this complaint confuses liberal journalists and activists with Democratic politicians, who are mostly concentrating their rhetoric on health care and other economic issues.

    In the meantime, journalists and close followers of politics are going to have a natural interest in the drama of a criminal investigation into the president of the United States and his family and advisers. This is especially true when the president has expressed through words and deeds his belief that he is entitled to immunity from legal prosecution, and indeed is entitled to direct law enforcement to harass his adversaries instead. It is very strange that the self-styled populist wing of the left is so indifferent to this project.

  154. 154
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    So yesterday was very interesting.

    There are two Police Reform Bills making some headway in CA. AB-931 would mandate De-Escalation for all CA Police/Sheriff Depts, in the hopes of preventing deadly Use of Force incidents like Stephon Clarke. SB-1421 would open up public access to the records of problematic Police Officers whose troublesome pasts are kept hidden by the Police Officers Bill of Rights. My Senator, Anthony Portantino, is head of the Appropriations Committee so we are trying to pressure him to release the bill, as is, and resist the heavy push by the Police Unions to kill or neuter the bill. So I set up a meeting with some people from other local Resistance groups to go speak with him yesterday. It was very last-minute and we didn’t even know if we were actually going to have the meeting until yesterday morning.

    One of the women I had invited (who I only knew through FB) said she had a friend she wanted to invite who could speak about De Escalation, yada yada…fine. Cool.

    Turns out her friend was one of the hostages at the Trader Joes in Silverlake last weekend. In fact, she was the hostage who actively De Escalated the situation for 3 hours and helped get the shooter to turn surrender to the police. She was able to tell the whole story and how the police’s actions outside the building (like posting a sniper who started to countdown to shooting…) were actually ESCALATING the situation numerous times and made it much more dangerous than if they had given more time and space and just chilled the F out a bit. Anyways, it was incredibly powerful stuff and really highlighted the importance of De Escalation for policing when it comes to Use of Force.

    If you are a CA resident, please call your State Senator this week and ask them to support AB-931 and SB-1421. Don’t let the Police Unions knee-cap another common sense effort to make policing safer for civilians as well as the police themselves.

  155. 155
    gwangung says:

    @Kay:

    If one side’s emails are stolen and released and the other sides are not it’s not a fair fight. There’s nothing to compare them to- no context.

    That’s blatant information manipulation. Of course that’s partisan, of course that’s not transparency.

  156. 156
    germy says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Be forewarned. These are not our allies.

    Well, neither is Jon Chait. I have four family members working in public schools. Working hard.

    Chait is a school privateer, like his wife. I don’t click on his links, because that would please his employers. I know he wouldn’t do anything to please my family’s employers.

  157. 157
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @tobie: Abrams is great, both charismatic and pragmatic. GA residents here and elsewhere tell me not to count my chickens, and I’m naturally on the phlegmatic/pessimistic end of the spectrum, but it’s hard not to get hopeful when you see her in action

  158. 158

    @Elizabelle: Their ideological blinders make them useful idiots at best, Russian assets at worst.

  159. 159
    tobie says:

    @germy: @Elizabelle: I do think things will change if Democrats retake the House and the Senate and assume control of some state houses. Being in the minority has led to all sorts of squabbling.

  160. 160
    jonas says:

    @Leto: Here’s what happened. The Kochs wanted to use their vast resources to dismantle the New Deal and rebuild America in their libertarian image, where corporate interests rule everything, workers have no rights, the environment is manufactured in China, and what little government there is is paid for by the poorest people. To achieve this, they went to the Republican Party and said “here’s our vision.” The Republicans said, sure, we can do this by whipping up white racial resentment and blaming all the stuff you don’t like on black people and “liberal elites” so that even poor white workers will vote to get rid of it. The Kochs didn’t seem to mind at first because it was getting them their tax cuts and union killing and deregulation, but now they’re looking at Trump’s unique brand of racist, anti-immigrant, protectionist populism and going “perhaps this was not such as swift idea…”

    Sow the wind, boys….

  161. 161
    Elizabelle says:

    @germy: Don’t know about the school privateering — foo on that — and don’t agree with Chait on all columns (don’t even read him that diligently), but I thought this was an interesting article. We can see some of these sentiments on threads here; interesting to learn where they are coming from.

    Glad to hear you have family working in public schools. And I had not heard about LeBron James’s efforts there — will enjoy reading up on that.

    Public schools, libraries and post offices are essential goods. Among many we have to protect.

  162. 162
    Miss Bianca says:

    @oldgold: Details, please! ; )

    More seriously, the Kochs have been up to their eyeballs lately in suddenly planning their brand of “philanthropy”…namely, adult education classes for recently-released convicts and Puerto Rican refugees, according to what I’ve read in WashPo. Why, you might wonder? Why would they want to do something so altruistic? Methinks in the case of the ex-felons it’s to create their own brand of mercenary force.

    All together now…”WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?”

  163. 163
    Elizabelle says:

    NPR top story is Trump taking on the Koch Brothers. Ends item by reminding that Koch Industries (?) is one of NPR’s funders.

    Yeah. Like we hadn’t noticed that, dear timid NPR. (Nice polite Republicans, to the bone.)

  164. 164
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Elizabelle: Chait is smart and mostly on the side of the angels, but his wife is some kind of muckety-muck and true believer in the anti-public school movement. I think as a matter of ethics Chait should refrain/be restrained from writing about education, but it’s one of his hobby-horses. Also, he’s big on the “campus liberals are a threat to free speech” nonsense.

  165. 165
    NotMax says:

    @Steeplejack

    Frankenstein: A New Musical.

    Opened last fall, but only plays on Monday nights.

  166. 166
    rikyrah says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Nope.

    None of these muthaphuckas are our allies.

  167. 167
    Platonailedit says:

    Iran says Fuck You to the traitorous thug.

    Yet another shitshow from this regime.

  168. 168
    Jeffro says:

    @Elizabelle: His tweets against the Kochs are pretty encouraging…for Democrats ;)

    LET’S YOU AND HIM FIGHT, KOCHS!!

  169. 169
    Elizabelle says:

    @Uncle Ebeneezer: Good luck. Keep us posted. De-escalation is crucial, and no surprise the police are pushing back. As we all know, it was a police bullet that killed the Trader Joes hostage/employee. Tragic.

  170. 170
    Elizabelle says:

    @Jeffro: Injuries, please. I literally did just buy popping corn this weekend.

  171. 171
    Leto says:

    @jonas: Definitely. Trumpov and company are saying the message IN THEIR OUTSIDE VOICE. They spent so much money/so many decades making sure that the message was just below the surface but Little Hands is fucking up all of their plans… womp and prayers. Indeed, sow the winds…

  172. 172
    sgrAstar says:

    @satby: have the pix of your meetup been posted? Dying to see them!

  173. 173
    Tenar Arha says:

    I know this is probably a dead thread but it’s the only open one available. Anyone remember yesterday when we were talking about that VA GOP candidate who likes Bigfoot porn? Chuck Tingle got a hold of it & I had a really good chuckle over his new book cover.

    WARNING this Tweet is very Tingley, & therefore though covered perhaps NSFW!

  174. 174
    JAFD says:

    @satby: Hope you’re having a good and/or uneventful trip back to the Heartland. Was really great meeting you!

  175. 175
    Mary G says:

    @Jeffro:

    But suppose the Democrats nominate one of the senators who are now sprinting leftward to catch up with what they perceive to be the Democratic base.

    The notion that Democratic Senators know less about what the Democratic base wants than that clueless numpty does is SAD!

  176. 176
    TenguPhule says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Surely things can’t go on like this. At some point even Trump must realise that Rudy G’s inept public statements are only screwing him over.

    Donald Trump can stay irrational longer then you can stay sane.

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