Today in Rudys Giuliani: An Ongoing Series Regarding the Quantum Dynamics of America’s (Dumbest) Mayor!

Today we once again convene our ad hoc pro-seminar analytical series into the quantum dynamics and entanglements of Mayor A Noun, A Verb, and Boy Do I Sound Like a Dumbass! Giuliani. On behalf of the Institute for the Study of Infinite Rudys Giuliani, I would personally like to thank Josh Marshall for capturing the relevant clips of the various Rudys Giuliani broadcast and cable news appearances, which has made today’s installment possible.

This morning one of the Rudys Giuliani went on CNN this morning in an attempt to clarify something he said on Fox News earlier this morning. As a result we got this lovely revelation:

To summarize for those not able to watch video:

  1. Rudy Giuliani went on CNN to clarify Rudy Giuliani’s remarks earlier this morning on Fox News.
  2. Rudy Giuliani explained to CNN viewers that there was a planning meeting on 7 June 2016 in advance of the 9 June 2016 meeting with Natalia Veselnitskiya, her two Russian intelligence handlers (one former GRU and one, reportedly, former SVR), Emin Agalarov, Rob Goldstone, and a couple of other hangers on.
  3. In attendance at the now newly disclosed for the first time by Rudy Giuliani on CNN this morning to clarify what Rudy Giuliani said on Fox News before the CNN interview 7 June 2016 meeting was, according to Rudy Giuliani, Donald Trump, Jr, Paul Manafort, Jared Kushner (who are all reported to have been at the actual 9 June meeting with Veselnetskiya et al), Rick Gates, and Michael Cohen.
  4. Rick Gates has been cooperating with the Special Counsel’s Office for months.

It is important to remember that on 26 July 2018, Rudy Giuliani told CNN’s Chris Cuomo that:

GIULIANI: He didn’t know about it. I know that. I’ve been over this in great detail. I’ve talked to the corroborating witnesses. This guy is walking into a trap. But —

CUOMO: You’ve talked to the other people that were in the room?

GIULIANI: Of course I did. Months ago. A month ago. Two months ago.

CUOMO: And you know what they say the president was told and not told by his son?

GIULIANI: I know what they say, yes.

Here’s a question for the seminar: how does one talk to people who were in the room at a meeting that you’ve stated didn’t happen?

Anyhow, so when Rudy Giuliani went on CNN this morning to clarify what he said on Fox News before he went on CNN, he directly contradicted what Rudy Giuliani told CNN last Thursday. Everybody still with me? Good, because Rudy Giuliani has now gone on Fox News again to clarify what Rudy Giuliani told CNN this morning to clarify what Rudy Giuliani had told Fox News even earlier this morning, but which contradicts what Rudy Giuliani told CNN last Thursday.

Here’s the video clips of Rudy Giuliani on Fox earlier this afternoon to clarify what Rudy Giuliani told CNN this morning, which contradicted what Rudy Giuliani told CNN last Thursday in an attempt to clarify what Rudy Giuliani told Fox News even earlier this morning.

So, again, to summarize for those without video:

  1. Rudy Giuliani has gone on Fox News earlier this afternoon to state that there was no planning meeting on 7 June 2016 for the 9 June meeting with Natalia Veselnitskiya.
  2. This was an attempt to clarify what Rudy Giuliani told CNN this morning that there was a planning meeting on 7 June 2016 that was attended by Donald Trump, Jr, Jared Kushner, Paul Manafort, Rick Gates (who has been cooperating with the Special Counsel’s Office for months), and Michael “Hi-Fidelity” Cohen, which contradicted what Rudy Giuliani told CNN’s Chris Cuomo on 26 July 2018.
  3. This morning’s CNN appearance was an attempt by Rudy Giuliani to clarify what Rudy Giuliani told Fox News even earlier this morning.

It appears that we have had a Class 4 Rudys Giuliani quantum entanglement so far today. Though the day is young, who knows what Rudy Giuliani might say to Wolf Blitzer or Chris Cuomo or Anderson Cooper that will then require Rudy Giuliani to clarify what Rudy Giuliani said to Blitzer, Cuomo, and/or Cooper by going back on Fox News to set the record straight. If he really works at it, Rudy Giuliani may be able to get this all the way up to a Class 8 or 9!

I hope that everyone is clear about all of this, because if you’re not Rudy Giuliani will come to your house tonight to explain what Rudy Giuliani told Fox News to clarify what Rudy Giuliani told CNN, which contradicted what Rudy Giuliani told CNN last week, in an attempt to clarify what Rudy Giuliani told Fox News first thing this AM.

Open thread! Or threads if you can’t escape the quantum entanglements.

PS: More seriously, Giuliani’s inability to both keep his mouth shut, fight his mania for appearing on television multiple times every day, and get his stories straight is increasing the President’s legal jeopardy. As I noted above, Rick Gates has been cooperating with Special Counsel Mueller’s investigation for months. So the Special Counsel knows exactly whether there was or was not a 7 June 2016 planning meeting and what was or was not discussed at that meeting. Moreover, if you all recall, in the afternoon of 7 June 2016 the President held an impromptu press event to announce he’d be holding a press conference at the beginning of the following week to provide all sorts of new and damaging information about Secretary Clinton. Once news of the actual 9 June 2016 meeting broke last year, this has been seen as a significant tell that Veslenitskiya via the Agalarovs and Rob Goldstone had promised to provide incriminating information to the Trump campaign about Secretary Clinton. Specifically, that the President had been informed that the meeting was scheduled and what had been promised and couldn’t keep it to himself, so he teased it to the news media at a press conference. The President never held the follow on event he teased.

202 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    The competition for the World’s Best Lawyer is fierce.

  2. 2
    LAO says:

    Giuliani better not show up at my house tonight.

  3. 3
    Cermet says:

    You see this is Rudy’s plan for an insanity defense; the orange fart cloud is innocent because his lawyer is insane … .

  4. 4
    JPL says:

    @LAO: Why? You could probably get a confession from him. If Trump did it, is a catchy book title.
    Rick Gates might have something to do with Trump’s meltdown on twitter this weekend.

  5. 5
    lollipopguild says:

    @Baud: You mean the Worlds most entertaining dumbass/shit for brains/moron/headuphisass best friend of President trump.

  6. 6
    Teddys Person says:

    The problem with Rudy and Donald is that they’ve surrounded themselves with sycophants all their lives. So now, when the cognitive decline is really setting in, there’s no one around to prevent them from verbally shitting themselves in public.

    Edit: It would be sad if they weren’t vile, evil motherfuckers.

  7. 7
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: Let me make a call. Is there a time that is better for you? Also, how many Rudys Giuliani do you want? We have a special: order three and we’ll throw in two more for free!

  8. 8
    Gozer says:

    I wonder when we’ll reach the point where Sr. throws Jr. and Kush under the bus. I feel like it’s coming…soon.

  9. 9
    Jeffro says:

    I can’t keep track of Quantum Rudys, but with the help of this handy list, I most definitely CAN keep track of how the story has changed from “no meetings whatsoever” to “yeah, they met but collusion isn’t a crime”*

    *technically true, Rudes! The actual charges will read, “conspiracy against the United States”

    Here are the nine stages of collusion denial I’ve identified (thus far):

    1. November 2016: No communications, period

    Hope Hicks: “It never happened. There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”

    2. February 2017: There were no communications, “to the best of our knowledge”

    Sarah Huckabee Sanders: “This is a non-story because, to the best of our knowledge, no contacts took place.”

    3. March 2017: There were communications, but no planned meetings with Russians

    Donald Trump Jr.: “Did I meet with people that were Russian? I’m sure, I’m sure I did. … But none that were set up. None that I can think of at the moment. And certainly none that I was representing the campaign in any way, shape or form.”

    4. July 8, 2017: There was a planned meeting at Trump Tower, but it was “primarily” about adoption and not the campaign

    Trump Jr.: “We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago and was since ended by the Russian government, but it was not a campaign issue at that time and there was no follow-up.”

    5. July 9, 2017: The meeting was planned to discuss the campaign, but the information exchanged wasn’t “meaningful”

    Trump Jr.: “No details or supporting information was provided or even offered. It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information.”

    6. December 2017: Collusion isn’t even a crime

    President Trump: “There is no collusion, and even if there was, it’s not a crime.”

    Jay Sekulow: “For something to be a crime, there has to be a statute that you claim is being violated. There is not a statute that refers to criminal collusion. There is no crime of collusion.”

    (Technically speaking, the criminal code doesn’t use the word “collusion,” but it’s generally understood as a broad term that could encompass more specific, codified crimes. And even special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s team has used it in court filings.)

    7. May 16, 2018: Even if meaningful information were obtained, it wasn’t used

    Giuliani: “And even if it comes from a Russian, or a German, or an American, it doesn’t matter. And they never used it, is the main thing. They never used it. They rejected it. If there was collusion with the Russians, they would have used it.”

    [One thing, Rudy Giuliani: The Trump campaign *did* use it.]

    8. May 19, 2018: There was a *second* planned meeting about foreign help in the election, but nothing came of it either

    The New York Times reported Sunday on yet another meeting about getting foreign help with the 2016 election. This one came three months before the election and featured Donald Trump Jr. and an emissary, George Nader, who said the princes who lead Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates wanted to assist Trump.

    Alan Futerfas, Trump Jr.’s attorney: “They pitched Mr. Trump Jr. on a social media platform or marketing strategy. He was not interested, and that was the end of it.”

    9. July 16, 2018: Trump couldn’t collude, because Trump didn’t even know Putin

    Trump: “There was no collusion. I didn’t know the president. There was nobody to collude with.”

    10. July 30, 2018: Collusion isn’t a crime, and Trump wasn’t physically at the Trump Tower meeting

    With Michael Cohen alleging that Trump knew about the Trump Tower meeting in real time — despite many previous denials — Giuliani told both CNN and Fox News that Trump wasn’t physically at the meeting.

    Oh…okay then…he merely knew about it in advance and knew they were there to discuss illegally hacked materials stolen by a hostile foreign power’s efforts…but when no personal ‘dirt’ turned up, they just went with plan B: selective release of said materials for the express purpose of electing Trumpov.

    Can we also hear more about which Americans worked hand-in-hand with that same hostile foreign power to direct social media disinformation warfare against our own citizens? That would be intriguing!

    And how about which Americans worked hand-in-hand with that same foreign power to launder Russian oligarch money into GOP front organizations like the NRA? Now that’s exciting!

    And I wanna hear more about targeted Russian hacking attempts/attacks on voter registration data?? That part doesn’t even – well, MIGHT not even – involve Americans and could just be considered an outright act of war, couldn’t it?

    All I’m saying is, sure is a LOT of shit going on for something that the Dems ginned up as “an excuse for losing an election they should have won”. a LOT.

  10. 10
    Just One More Canuck says:

    So did he talk to the people who were at the meeting that didn’t occur to confirm what Trump was not told?

  11. 11
    TenguPhule says:

    Aaron Rupar

    @atrupar
    GIULIANI: I’m happy to tell Mueller that Trump wasn’t at the Trump Tower meeting.

    CNN: How do you know he wasn’t there?

    GIULIANI: Because Cohen is a liar and Don Jr. says he wasn’t there.

    CNN: Don’t they have a self-interest in saying that?

    GIULIANI: Well, so does Cohen. pic.twitter.com/jBZSl9I1qm

    2:29 AM – Jul 30, 2018

    Reposted from below.

    Are we sure Rudy isn’t high on something?

  12. 12
    Van Buren says:

    Oh what tangled webs we weave …

  13. 13
    TenguPhule says:

    It appears that we have had a Class 4 Rudys Giuliani quantum entanglement so far today.

    Wormhole or Black Hole?

  14. 14
    Jeffro says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    how many Rudys Giuliani do you want? We have a special: order three and we’ll throw in two more for free!

    Ah, but how many Rudys are there if I never open the box?

    What if I open the box on CNN vs Fox – are there different numbers of Rudys then?

  15. 15
    The Ancient Randonneur says:

    This guy ain’t the Rudy my drill sergeants had me singing cadence to.

  16. 16
    dexwood says:

    @TenguPhule:
    Asshole, of course.

  17. 17
    N M says:

    The infinitely bifurcating timelines are hurting my brain! /snark

  18. 18
    rikyrah says:

    this is ridiculous

  19. 19
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    I’m glad you were able to understand what he was trying to say. To me he sounded like he was rambling and he was in early-onset dementia or something.

  20. 20
    Tokyokie says:

    @Jeffro: And the more they claim that der Trumpenführer was not physically present for the 9 July 2016 meeting leads me to believe he was participating via speakerphone.

  21. 21
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud:

    The competition for the World’s Best Lawyer is fierce.

    Especially on BJ.

  22. 22
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Well, the one thing that’s abundantly clear here, is that you get what you pay for — Rudy’s legal advice/assistance is on a par with his fee.

  23. 23
    TenguPhule says:

    @rikyrah:

    this is ridiculous

    Timeline, story, person?

  24. 24
    TenguPhule says:

    @dexwood: Well played.

  25. 25
    geg6 says:

    I. do. not. want. Rudy. at. my. house. ever.

    Jesus, this guy is a horrible lawyer. Was his rep as USA built on smoke and mirrors? ‘Cause I’m not seeing USA material here.

  26. 26
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jeffro: We’ve assigned a crack team to your question. Please stand by.

  27. 27
    TenguPhule says:

    @Jeffro:

    Ah, but how many Rudys are there if I never open the box?

    Infinite. They only become quantifiable once you kill the cat inside with him.

  28. 28
    John McCann says:

    Psst. This would be more convincing if we agree that the subject is the meeting at Trump Tower on JUNE 6th. Just sayin’

  29. 29
    Jeffro says:

    Headline: Trumpov agrees to 1-question interview w/ Mueller!

    Actual interrogation:
    Mueller: Mr. President…just one question and then we’re outta here
    Trumpov: uh huh uh huh oh boy oh boy uh huh! Shoot!
    Mueller: After July 7th…where you promised there would be a huge news conference the following week, to talk about all sorts of new and damaging information you’d uncovered about Secretary Clinton…why did you never hold that follow-on press conference?
    Trumpov:

  30. 30
    TenguPhule says:

    @geg6:

    Was his rep as USA built on smoke and mirrors? ‘Cause I’m not seeing USA material here.

    Outsourced to the cheapest bidder, Russia.

  31. 31
    rikyrah says:

    Maxine Waters slays Trump with most devastating rant yet: ‘We’ll find out about his schemes, his lying, his payoffs’
    David Edwards
    29 JUL 2018 AT 15:20 ET

    Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) vowed on Sunday that all of President Donald Trump’s secrets would be exposed before he left office

    During an interview on MSNBC, host David Gura asked Waters to respond to Trump’s threat to shut down the government if he does not get funding to build a border wall.

    “You know, this president is a bully and he will try to intimidate all of us,” Waters insisted. “He is not going to shut down anything. As a matter of fact, people will remember that he said he was going to build this wall and he was going to make Mexico pay for the wall. They said they weren’t going to pay for anything. Now he wants the American citizens to pay for this.”

    ………………………………..

    “When you couple that with the fact that his son has lied, he has lied about that meeting that took place at the tower, at the Trump Tower, all of that is going to help, you know, obscure the message that he is trying to bring on the economy,” Waters said. “This president is wreaking havoc on this country. And so while there is some improvement in the economy, we have all of this other mess that we have to take a look at and what is, you know, in the forefront of what is being talked about in the media.”

  32. 32
    Jeffro says:

    @TenguPhule: So I’m good to just leave him in the box, to suffocate along with the cat? Because that was Plan A, B, and C as far as I’m concerned…

  33. 33
    Boris, Rasputin's Evil Twin says:

    Dementia is doing a number on Rudy and Donnie, no doubt about that.

  34. 34
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cermet:

    the orange fart cloud is innocent because his lawyer is insane

    I wish I had more faith that our justice system wouldn’t accept that.

  35. 35
    jc says:

    All I want is to see every one of Trump’s enablers and sycophant’s careers implode. Nothing undeserved.

  36. 36
    TenguPhule says:

    @jc:

    All I want is to see all the Trumpster’s careers implode.

    We’ve demonstrated it can be done with buildings, after all.

  37. 37
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: He may be charging too much.

  38. 38
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Tokyokie: The idea that that July 9 meeting could take place in Trump Tower on a day when Don Sr. was physically in Trump Tower, and be run by Don Jr. without Don Sr. being intimately involved with every detail, is farcical on its face.

  39. 39
    catclub says:

    @Cermet:

    straight is increasing the President’s legal jeopardy.

    I thought it is setting up for Trump claiming lawyer incompetence.

  40. 40
    EBT says:

    He finally grew past Noun Verb Nine Eleven.

  41. 41
    Gravenstone says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: So you’re saying that what Trump has is contagious? That could be … interesting. Especially if air transmittable.

  42. 42
    Roger Moore says:

    @Gozer:

    I wonder when we’ll reach the point where Sr. throws Jr. and Kush under the bus. I feel like it’s coming…soon.

    Yeah, if Gates can corroborate the pre-meeting took place- and even better the agenda for the pre-meeting, preferably with documents- then Jr. and Kushner are going to find themselves expendable.

  43. 43
    Aleta says:

    Rudy, Trump and Co. are enacting the classic Pencil Defense (TM Repubs + their tactically inclined trainers). Throw pencils, crayons, empty milk cartons at sensitive body parts so the opposition will pause to cover themselves and the media will make jokes.

    Run around making maximum noise, throw anything up in the air, to distort Mueller’s aim (in the public’s understanding). Pile your chairs and things to make a fort up against the door. Bite. Yell in their ear. Kick their kneecaps.

  44. 44
    MikeifromArlington says:

    I’m convinced Rudy is responsible for the reopening and disclosure to the public of Hillary ‘s email non issue. This guy for sure has Friends in the FBI. The real story is the partisan GOP influence behind the FBI announcing DAYS before the election Hillary is being investigated. Rudy was always oddly quiet near the end of the campaign. He’s decided to go all in with Trump since his crap is gonna get exposed when Meuller evedence starts rolling out.

  45. 45
    Sandia Blanca says:

    Date correction on all those meetings–they took place* in JUNE 2016, not July. Thanks.

    *or didn’t

  46. 46
    feebog says:

    As I said last week, I’m beginning to think Rudy isn’t that good at this here lawyering stuff. Waiting for the moment where his dentures literally fall into his lap during an interview to confirm.

  47. 47
    jl says:

    @Baud: ” The competition for the World’s Best Lawyer is fierce. ”

    Baud 2020! is going to have to ramp up the incoherence and incompetence to beat this. And AFAIK, best Baud 2020! can up with crimewise is quick stop coupon fraud.

    I have to admit I am not clear on the Rudy/Trumpster confusion.

    I did hear a weird story on the news radio this weekend that is being reported in the Boston Globe on a new tip top secret air travel security program that sounds very intrusive, very bizarre and very wasteful. Over a dozen TSA air marshals are sources and seem pretty ticked off about a waste of their time and worry that they are being directed by an illegal snoop program.

    Thirty to forty people a day are being tagged as worth being followed for three airline flights. Apparently this includes airline attendants who are being flagged with suspicious travel patterns because they were assigned to flights that stopped in Turkey. Sounds weird. I’d like to hear more about that. I’ll check the Globe to see if I can find the story later today.

  48. 48
    SFAW says:

    More seriously, Giuliani’s inability to both keep his mouth shut, fight his mania for appearing on television multiple times every day, and get his stories straight is increasing the President’s legal jeopardy.

    I don’t see a problem. I’m assuming you don’t, either.

    Moreover, if you all recall, in the afternoon of 7 July 2016 the President held an impromptu press event to announce he’d be holding a press conference at the beginning of the following week to provide all sorts of new and damaging information about Secretary Clinton.

    I had not recalled that.
    WHERE’S MY DAMN POPCORN??? I NEED SOME, STAT!!!!!!!

  49. 49
    piratedan says:

    and at no time did anyone contact the FBI and say… “Hey! These Russians are meddling in our elections!”

    Jaysus its like they’re trying to recreate the scene in HP and the Goblet of Fire where Ron is trying to inform Harry that the first task is Dragons and comes up with the most complicated way to do so and distance himself from the actual warning…

  50. 50
    JPL says:

    @Roger Moore: It could mean that Mueller doesn’t need Manafort or Cohen.

  51. 51
    Mike in NC says:

    FOX News needs to create a panel discussion show with the various Rudys. Call it something like “Meet the Giuilianis”.

  52. 52
    🌷 Martin says:

    It’s not that Rudy is dumb (he is), it’s that he’s implicated. He clearly knew what was coming before it came out. He clearly received information from the NY FBI office. He clearly knew what Wikileaks was coming out with before it was released. Rudy has his own skin to look after more than Trump’s.

  53. 53
    SFAW says:

    @Gravenstone:

    So you’re saying that what Trump has is contagious? That could be … interesting. Especially if air transmittable.

    Even more interesting if it’s only contagious through fluid exchange.

    [Can I get an “Eewwwwwwwwwwww”? Say hallelujah! Yes, yes.]

  54. 54
    rikyrah says:

    @Jeffro:

    Damn good list. Thanks so much for it. Will use for reference.

  55. 55
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Sandia Blanca: Good catch, thanks. I’ll fix it.

  56. 56
    Roger Moore says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    We’ve assigned a crack team to your question.

    I don’t think crack is going to help them solve the conundrum that is Rudy Giuliani.

  57. 57
    SFAW says:

    @jl:

    Baud 2020! is going to have to ramp up the incoherence and incompetence to beat this.

    Fortunately, Baud’s incoherence-and-incompetence amp goes to 11.

  58. 58
    rikyrah says:

    @TenguPhule:

    All three. That he’s given screentime is ridiculous. They don’t challenge him seriously.

  59. 59
    SFAW says:

    @rikyrah:

    I think Oliver Willis had a similar list, but without dates.

  60. 60
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: I read it. Those are absolutely garbage targeting indicators. They’re not based on anything with any real intelligence background or in actual intelligence on any of those folks. And I bet, if you drill down far enough, the person who came up with this idea was an Israeli security consultant because this sounds like the crap they pitch in exchange for large fees.

  61. 61
    trollhattan says:

    Michael “Hi-Fidelity” Cohen

    This really hits my funny bone.

    Occurs to me had the Rudys Giuliani been used in The Matrix as Agent Smith the series would have descended into horror category instead of dystopian parallel world for up-and-coming bong aficionados. Just how many Rudys are there? Are the Rudys a spoon?

  62. 62
    MCA1 says:

    @🌷 Martin: It would be awesome if it turned out that Giuliani only embedded himself on the hide of the Beast in order to try to document as much criminality as he possibly could from the inside, with the plan all along being to take it to Mueller and beg for leniency in exchange for delivering a treasure trove of evidence.

    I know, but one can dream, no?

  63. 63
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Roger Moore: Meth? LSD?

  64. 64
    rikyrah says:

    What happened with Jane Sanders’ political institute?

    Old Lady Dem (@oldladydem) Tweeted:
    “The institute is being run by (Jane’s) son, David Driscoll, a political neophyte who previously worked at Burton Snowboards. His estimated salary for the job is $100,000.”
    https://t.co/GcP0ws3XJ1 https://twitter.com/oldladydem/status/1023984711818010624?s=17

  65. 65
    Roger Moore says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    The idea that that July 9 meeting could take place in Trump Tower on a day when Don Sr. was physically in Trump Tower, and be run by Don Jr. without Don Sr. being intimately involved with every detail, is farcical on its face.

    And Mueller very likely knows this. Remember the business about Jr. calling a number with a blocked ID before and after the meeting, and the speculation that it must have been Sr.’s phone? That ID blocking only applies to what’s displayed on the phone. The company handling the call has to know the number, and you can bet Mueller has those records. Unless the phone was a burner- which seems unlikely, since Jr. wasn’t apparently careful enough to use one- they aren’t concealing anything from the one many they most need to hide it from.

  66. 66
    Aleta says:

    @MikeifromArlington: me too. His illogic may make sense if he’s trying to protect himself instead of, or in addition to, Trump. Probably a madman’s doomed game to spin co-entangled webs that would save each player AND be logical and not implicate anyone under the radar who might implicate him. But he’s talking to the public, so might as well go with confusion.

  67. 67
    A Ghost To Most says:

    We don’t even need a diety to make our enemies ridiculous.

  68. 68
    MCA1 says:

    @Jeffro: They already need to update that list, to cover Rohrabacher’s (R-Kremlin) new entry today. Which was (paraphrasing [barely]) “Anyone would betray America to a hostile foreign autocrat for damaging oppo research on a political opponent.” So it’s basically the standard complaint when you get a speeding ticket that you weren’t the only one exceeding the speed limit.

  69. 69
    Adam L Silverman says:

    That didn’t take long!

  70. 70
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And I bet, if you drill down far enough, the person who came up with this idea was an Israeli security consultant because this sounds like the crap they pitch in exchange for large fees.

    And Israeli would have probably come up with a more convincing story. This level of stupid feels more home grown to me.

  71. 71
    lgerard says:

    It’s simple to understand

    It’s a Möbius strip of falsehood

  72. 72
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    That didn’t take long!

    The GOP weather vane has spoken, the cucks will now fall in line.

  73. 73
    TenguPhule says:

    @MCA1:

    “Anyone would betray America to a hostile foreign autocrat for damaging oppo research on a political opponent.”

    The thing that gets me is how easily they accept this.

    Its flat earth and intelligent design vaccine autism, only crazier.

  74. 74
    Mnemosyne says:

    Guys. This is not Rudy being stupid or acting demented. This is him knowing full well that Fox viewers will dismiss anything that airs on CNN as “fake news,” so he can tell completely different stories on the two different channels and Fox viewers will discount anything they didn’t see on Fox as “fake news.”

    This is propaganda, not dementia.

  75. 75
    efgoldman says:

    @Cermet:

    You see this is Rudy’s plan for an insanity defense

    Oh FSM: Weasel Face won’t actually let Rudi911 appear as his attorney in court? Noodly appendages don’t embrace us that much. Potential comedy gold!

  76. 76
    MCA1 says:

    @John McCann: Right. And thanks for using June 6 instead of 6 June.

    ADAM, I know sometimes we all feeling like running back into the protective bosom of the English monarchy, now that we’ve fucked up this democratic republic thing so badly, but can we hold off on adopting the date reference patterns just a little while longer? Is that a military thing to put the date before the month? ‘Cause some civilians are not ready to start talking about today as thirty July instead of July thirtieth. Going along with “hashtag” to describe a number symbol when using Twitter, an American invention, was annoying enough. Also, we play sports on a field, not a pitch. And get off my lawn, also, too.

  77. 77
    Kay says:

    LeBron James
    @KingJames
    The jitters before the first day of school are real right now!!! Tomorrow is going to be one of the greatest moments (if not the greatest) of my life when we open the #IPROMISE School. This skinny kid from Akron who missed 83 days of school in the 4th grade had big dreams…

    I’m not a sports fan (although I’m glad other people love sports so much) but I just love LeBron James. It’s such a mean old crabby world and he’s just a nice guy.

    When he does his bicycle give-away it’s pure joy because it’s not the usual charity where it’s sort of grim and they get something that is “good for them”. It’s just fun for them. For THEM.

  78. 78
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks. It sounds like a boondoggle scam. Some of the suspicious signs that got people tagged (besides supposedly suspicious flight attendant travel patters…. because of their effing work schedule and flight assignments that took them through countries on some list) were going to bathroom more than once on a flight, fidgeting, computer use, sleeping too much or too little.

    It does sound like garbage. I can see why the air marshals are pissed they have to follow a flight attendant for three flights because of their flight assignments changed, or some old guy with a bad prostate because he had to pee a few times on a flight, and wondering where this dingbat nonsense came from.

    I can also see whoever came up with it discussing exciting ‘synergies’ like using the program to get good contact info to pitch ads to oldsters who might need adult diapers. Sounded both sinister and ridiculous at the same time.

    Also, I checked TPM, and I’ll go with Rudy’s sum up that ‘well, anything could have happened’ for now. Sounds like there is going to be an airdrop of several tons of dirty shoes pretty soon.

  79. 79
    efgoldman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    order three and we’ll throw in two more for free!

    Just pay an exorbitant additional shipping charge.

  80. 80
    trollhattan says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    [;-|] This is my “Thank God I’m sitting down.” face.

    Rand Paul wouldn’t recognize a principle if it bit him in the ass and called him Napoleon.

  81. 81
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    This is propaganda, not dementia.

    The two are not necessarily in conflict.

  82. 82
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: No, I’ve seen the physical security stuff the Israelis pitch and it’s really bad. They can’t get out of the scale problem. If you only have one airport to control (Ben Gurion), your air force runs a 24/7 CAP, you limit the number of airlines that can fly into your airport and where they can fly from, and everyone working at the primary airline, which is also the state airline, are either active duty IAF, IDF, and intelligence/security services personnel (the pilots and flight crew) personnel, then you can do a lot of stuff that makes no sense under any other scenario/situation. Almost everything the Israelis do makes no sense to do in the US.

  83. 83
    Roger Moore says:

    @rikyrah:

    All three. That he’s given screentime is ridiculous. They don’t challenge him seriously.

    I think he’s replaced Carter Page as the guy the bring on and allow to talk, because they know he’s going to say something newsworthy and against his own interest without any prompting.

  84. 84
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    He may be charging too much.

    Ya think? Maybe just a little too much?
    Of course if what you are paying for is a deluded old fart to stand up a recite gibberish and lies then maybe not.

  85. 85
    trollhattan says:

    @TenguPhule:
    Rudy’s Cunning Plan seems all plan, no cunning and no execution. Talk Rudy, say word things!

  86. 86
    Roger Moore says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Meth? LSD?

    Geritol? Metamucil?

  87. 87
    p.a. says:

    Here’s the list of ticket purchasers for the meeting which was in fact never contemplated…
    Here are their valet parking tickets…
    Here is the seating arrangement…
    Here are their lunch orders…
    Drink orders…
    Here’s the winner of the centerpiece raffle…

  88. 88
    TenguPhule says:

    @trollhattan: Baldrick looks like Einstein, in comparsion. At least his plans made some sort of sense.

  89. 89
    Kay says:

    It doesn’t matter what Guiliani announces is or is not a crime. Mueller won’t charge anything that “isn’t a crime”, by definition, so it’s just more babbling bullshit from this corrupt liar.

    The or “a” or “several” crime(s) will be charged in the indictment or they won’t. There won’t be any analysis if whether the crime charged IS a crime, only if it can be proven. The time for Trump bullshitting about it is past, but I suppose he needs to earn his keep and cable news need guests.

    Doesn’t matter though.

  90. 90
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: This sounds much worse and much more incompetent than the totally unvalidated data-snooping (in the worst sense) AI deep learning nonsense under GW Bush after 9/11 that ate up untold person months and money tracking down thousands of false leads and not one real threat.

  91. 91
    Roger Moore says:

    @TenguPhule:

    The thing that gets me is how easily they accept this.

    When someone tells you who they are, believe them. Conservatives see liberals as a more dangerous enemy than foreign autocrats. It’s who they are.

  92. 92
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    It’s the brown acid man, you gotta watch that shit man…….

  93. 93
    cmorenc says:

    Isn’t Rudy Giuliani’s whole purpose on behalf of Trump to be a squid continually ejecting clouds of ink to muddy up the public’s ability to follow what’s really going on with the Russia collusion scandal? Does most of the public (especially within the Fox bubble) keep track of what Rudy said today vs yesterday vs last week vs last month vs last year? A key part of his role is to, as Andrew Sullivan noted, keep the rubes distracted from achieving the breakthrough realization Trump is running a con on them. Giuliani is probably helping succeed at least with the latter role, even though to an extent he might also be inadvertently helping Mueller drive a big spike hammer through Russia collusion con.

  94. 94
    Central Planning says:

    @TenguPhule: I’m going to go with ass hole.

    ETA – dang it, beaten by dex

  95. 95
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @MCA1: Its slightly modified military usage. If this was for work, I’d have done 6JUN2017.

    Now do you fancy a soothing spot of tea to calm your nerves?

  96. 96
    jl says:

    I guess to figure Rudy’s stuff out, I can go study the ‘man who wasn’t there was there again today, I’d wish he’d go away’ poem.
    And, I think one of Raymond Smullyan’s logic books tell you how to make a table to figure out logic puzzles like this.
    If I don’t find a magic key, I’ll just wait for a sum from ALS or TPM in a day or so.

  97. 97
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: The TSA is neither a law enforcement, nor an intelligence agency. It was purposely designed that way. Why it has tasking power over the Air Marshalls, or thinks it does, I have no idea. But this is a really dumb idea and I expect it will get shut down now that it’s been brought into the light.

  98. 98
    PPCLI says:

    Rudy said something else that stood out for me. After saying Trump “didn’t do the hacking” he added that Trump “didn’t pay for the hacks”.

    I haven’t heard much chatter that Trump did pay for the hacks. Of course, the Steele dossier claimed that Cohen had flown to Prague to pay off the hackers, but (for reasons that are unclear to me) journalists seem to have accepted Cohen’s claim that he didn’t go to Prague at in that interval, or at least they act as if they have. (There was an AP (I think) story recently suggesting that Mueller has evidence Cohen did go to Prague then, but the evidence was pretty thin, and it hasn’t gained traction.)

    So why did Rudy feel compelled to add that Trump didn’t pay for the hacks? Perhaps they are preemptively denying something that they anticipate Cohen might say?

  99. 99
    efgoldman says:

    @MCA1:

    can we hold off on adopting the date reference patterns just a little while longer?

    Way to get to the important meat of the the post.
    What fucking difference does the date format (or 24-hour tine) make?

  100. 100
    karen marie says:

    With this confusion, Trump is making it dangerous to go after him. By sending Rudy out to tell multiple different versions of anything he’s asked about, Trump is “just being Trump.” The confusion wears many people down while being invisible to those who count – his base – the crazy people that are the GOP.

    From Mark Singer’s 1997 profile of Trump:

    “Whatever complicates the world more I do,” he said.

    Come again?

    “It’s always good to do things nice and complicated so that nobody can figure it out.”

    This is just gross: “He was working his way through his daily gallon of Diet Coke …”

    The story that follows the “complicated” quote involves a NYC property development that did ultimately get built but that Trump, of course, had significantly overvalued in 1997. In 1997 he claimed to own a “30 to 50% share” and put a value of $600 million on that “asset.”
    In 2005 the development was sold for $809 million. Management took “Trump” off the buildings in mid November 2016.

  101. 101
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    I’m not a sports fan (although I’m glad other people love sports so much) but I just love LeBron James. It’s such a mean old crabby world and he’s just a nice guy.

    Yes, he does seem to be a very decent fellow.

  102. 102
    SFAW says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Geritol? Metamucil?

    Just remember: “Serutan” backwards spells “mud.”

  103. 103
    TenguPhule says:

    Donald Trump’s lawyer Rudy Giuliani has angrily compared Michael Cohen, Trump’s former long-time lawyer, to famous traitors Benedict Arnold, Brutus and Iago.

    This is my shocked face. : |

  104. 104
    Adam L Silverman says:

  105. 105
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: If I used TSA, I might be confused about the acronyms. I haven’t had time to go look for the Globe article, and am going off the interview with the reporter I heard yesterday. But the very idea is both sinister and ridiculous. Whatever acronym agency is doing it either has forgotten or never knew about the similar (though less ridiculous) boondoggle under GW Bush. Or just doesn’t care, since that is apparently a good excuse for doing stuff under Trump administration.

  106. 106
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The TSA is neither a law enforcement, nor an intelligence agency.

    They have been classified by our courts as a “meat inspection” agency.

    I wish this was a joke.

  107. 107
    SFAW says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    This is propaganda, not dementia.

    True. But, in fairness, they’re not mutually exclusive.

  108. 108
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl:

    I guess to figure Rudy’s stuff out, I can go study the ‘man who wasn’t there was there again today, I’d wish he’d go away’ poem.

    Won’t help with Giuliani. That poem is about Ambassador Kislyak and AG Sessions.

  109. 109
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    But this is a really dumb idea and I expect it will get shut down now that it’s been brought into the light.

    Only under a legitimate non-insane regime.

  110. 110
    SFAW says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Was Iago a traitor? I thought he was just a jealous, racist motherfucker. [Terrible confession: I’ve never read/seen Othello.]

  111. 111
    TenguPhule says:

    @SFAW:

    Was Iago a traitor?

    Yes, he betrays Othello.

  112. 112
    efgoldman says:

    @karen marie:

    By sending Rudy out to tell multiple different versions of anything he’s asked about, Trump is “just being Trump.”

    It may have an effect on the mouth breathers and the rare on the fence crowd, as well as the both siderists, but the prosecutors and courts won’t pay any attention

  113. 113
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @PPCLI: Without realizing it, he’s revealing a lot of information that he shouldnt be revealing. The Special Counsel and his team are paying attention.

  114. 114
    Ruckus says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Rudy and shitgibbon aren’t that sharp to play intent off of dementia. Sorry they just aren’t. Never actually have been. I’m not saying it doesn’t look that way but it’s too final and neither one of these assclowns has the ability to ever think that their greatness will end. They are, as you keep reminding us massive narcissists. One may be farther along the DSM narcissist scale but they both register.

  115. 115
    Kay says:

    @cmorenc:

    I just wonder how much it matters. The whole “court of public opinion” thing matters for some period, but this is real! People are being indicted. Some of them are going to trial.

    Mueller doesn’t care if they say it’s a crime. He charges the crime, not cable news analysis.

    “Collusion” as a term never mattered. Comey said they don’t even use that term, they use “coordination” and “collusion” wasn’t the crime they would charge anyway.

  116. 116
    Roger Moore says:

    @PPCLI:

    So why did Rudy feel compelled to add that Trump didn’t pay for the hacks?

    I think this is part of their “no collusion” line of defense. If the hacking was something Russia did on its own, Trump shouldn’t get in trouble for it even if it benefited him. Of course that still leaves him needing to explain why he very publicly asked Russia to hack Hillary’s emails, but I think they’re hoping we’ll forget that part.

  117. 117
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule:

  118. 118
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: The Air Marshals’ union is already on record that this is stupid and unconstitutional. They’ll make sure it’s shut down.

  119. 119
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ruckus:

    I think they’re both still sharp enough to know which audience they’re playing to and how to manipulate that audience. That’s something that narcissists are very, very good at knowing.

  120. 120
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The Air Marshalls’ union is already on record that this is stupid and unconstitutional.

    Cue Trump: “That just means its working as intended!”

    Federal Unions have their hands full with all the other lawsuits they’re currently fighting him on. We’re going to run out of lawyers at this rate of consumption.

  121. 121
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    my first cavity search

    Why are they SMILING?!!!!!

  122. 122
    SFAW says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Yes, he betrays Othello.

    But not Othello the General, Othello the “friend.” The other two betrayed their country/leader(s), and not just to fuck over their best friend’s love life. And, at least in this joint, we’ve used “traitor” to mean “people” like Turtle, Shitgibbon, etc who betray the country.

  123. 123
    Ruckus says:

    @PPCLI:

    Perhaps they are preemptively denying something that they anticipate Cohen might say?

    Another way. shitgibbon and rudy have to know that Mueller has everything that MC had. Everything. Quite possibly there is a fair amount of incriminating evidence in there concerning the meeting, no matter the date, time and place. IOW he knows what actually was said and what actually happened, what time and where it was and who was there. The clowns are running around the ring squirting each other with water from their flowers, in the hope you won’t notice the hanging noose, I mean high wire, being strung up.

  124. 124
    Mnemosyne says:

    Also, too, I’m going to use Adam’s last lines as a jumping-off point for a rant:

    Specifically, that the President had been informed that the meeting was scheduled and what had been promised and couldn’t keep it to himself, so he teased it to the news media at a press conference. The President never held the follow on event he teased.

    I think the thing that really, really pisses me off about this entire situation is that the Russians knew exactly what to dangle in front of the Republicans to make them eager to betray their country. They knew that American conservatives are so fucking around the bend when it comes to the Clintons that they’ll believe ANYTHING that makes the Clintons look bad.

    I still don’t believe that the dudes who came up with “Pizzagate” came up with the idea all on their own, as they have claimed. I think they glommed onto an existing piece of Russian propaganda and dressed it up with their own details knowing that American conservatives would believe it 100 percent as long as Hillary Clinton’s name was attached.

  125. 125
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I still don’t believe that the dudes who came up with “Pizzagate” came up with the idea all on their own, as they have claimed. I think they glommed onto an existing piece of Russian propaganda and dressed it up with their own details knowing that American conservatives would believe it 100 percent as long as Hillary Clinton’s name was attached.

    Everything so far has been projection by them. Every single thing.

  126. 126
    Ruckus says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    This is true a narcissist would be very capable of that. I’m just not sure these two narcissists are and in fact don’t think they totally are. It’s too pat, too clumsy. Of course it could just be one of them is that far gone but like you’ve been say all along that they are narcissists, I’ve been going with the other side of this that while yes they are narcissists, I think they are both also along the dementia line as well. I have a bit of personal experience with this, like you, through family, friends and yes I’ve been tested myself. (Docs said I’m 100% normal, shows how much they know!)

  127. 127
    Aardvark Cheeselog says:

    1) The plural of “Rudy” is “Rudies.”

    2) These people are not competent to manage their affairs (let alone ours) and need to be institutionalized for their own protections.

  128. 128
    Sandia Blanca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks Adam. There are already too many “unknown knowns” or whatever in this mess.

  129. 129
    David Fud says:

    Today, we found out who might have been a worse president than Trump. It is a really good thing that the Republicans never horked up Giuliani as their candidate and elected him. What an idiot.

  130. 130
    MCA1 says:

    @efgoldman: Jayzus, dude, relax. I’ve covered other substantive items in other posts on this thread, and then I pointed out a pet peeve in (what seemed to me to be) self-deprecating semi-faux outrage. Chill out. It’s not like no one ever sidetracks on here. If Adam didn’t think it worth responding to, he didn’t need to, but I take it from his response he took it in the spirit intended.

    Also, because we’re on the same side here, f’ em.

  131. 131
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: Fortunately we’ll never run out of Rudys Giuliani.

  132. 132
    Brachiator says:

    There is no reason to watch or pay attention to anything that Rudy G says. He is the visual equivalent of a Trump Twitter message: empty, pointless and intended only to provide a distraction.

  133. 133
    jl says:

    @Mnemosyne: I think some GOPers really went around the bend on HRC. They thought there really was a secret server, there really were 30,000 missing emails that had magic info, that if only brought to light, would destroy the Clintons and the Democratic Party and the dirty libs forever the end and every GOPer lived happily ever after. No price was too high to pay in order to get that magic dirt at the end of the rainbow.

    There was a GOP operative, who passed away shortly after he told his story, who seemed to have become truly crazed. Made the search for the Maltese Falcon look like sorting through a shopping bag to find a receipt.

  134. 134
    catclub says:

    @jl: This program will get even better when people find out they were booted off of a flight so the TSA guys could waste a seat.

  135. 135
    The Moar You Know says:

    If this was for work, I’d have done 6JUN2017.

    @Adam L Silverman: Software engineers will do this (per your example):

    20170606

    YEAR/MONTH/DATE

  136. 136
    MattF says:

    It’s the ‘Innocent, guilty, wtf’ defense. ‘My client is innocent by reason of hiring me– or, I don’t know, possibly guilty. Well, actually, guilty. Very guilty.’

    The only rational explanation I can think of is that Trump and Giuliani have agreed to make Trump look as guilty as possible. The concept is that ‘guilt’ has a circularity property– if you’re very, very, very, very guilty, that makes you innocent.

  137. 137
    Ruckus says:

    @David Fud:
    Well at least he had “experience” as a government official.
    I may have hurt myself just writing that.
    But he was elected and most of NYC is still on the map so he at least didn’t do every thing wrong. Of course his two signature buildings are gone, and on his watch as well.
    Maybe we should start calling him Dazed and Confused Rudy rather than Rudy 9/11

  138. 138
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @TenguPhule:
    Because they’re pedophiles? That guy with the mustache is definitely one.

  139. 139
    Gozer says:

    @Roger Moore: I mean…it’s not like I actually stole that credit card number. Somebody else did. I just bought a whole bunch of stuff with it.
    What’s the big deal?

  140. 140
    efgoldman says:

    @TenguPhule:

    We’re going to run out of lawyers at this rate of consumption.

    Nope. It’s like the old “Ripley’s Believe or Don’t” where they posited that if Chinese started marching by, four abreast, the parade would never end(*)

    (*)Not tested for veracity)

  141. 141
    Brachiator says:

    @SFAW:

    Was Iago a traitor? I thought he was just a jealous, racist motherfucker. [Terrible confession: I’ve never read/seen Othello.]

    There is a movie version featuring Orson Welles which is actually very good.

  142. 142
    Teddys Person says:

    OT but John Oliver’s interview with Antia Hill from his show last night is worth watching. The interview starts at around the 17 minute mark.

  143. 143
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Adam L Silverman: This is the format I tried to use in my work. No ambivalence about month and day.

  144. 144
    Jeffro says:

    @rikyrah: Happy to help! It’s a good reminder of where this whole thing – this “excuse for the Dems losing an easy election” – has come from, and where it’s heading.

  145. 145
    geg6 says:

    @Teddys Person:

    Saw that. She’s great.

    And more must-see tv tonight, courtesy of Jay-Z:

    http://www.paramountnetwork.co.....rtin-story

    I’ll be recording this for sure.

  146. 146
    Anonymous At Work says:

    THIRD BASE!

  147. 147
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: Always present a pleasant, friendly demeanor as it puts the passengers at ease.

  148. 148
    Ruckus says:

    @Gozer:
    Goes a little different with this crowd.
    I didn’t steal the card, I didn’t I’d use it but the stuff I bought wasn’t worth a shit anyway and how did you like my signature, pretty good wasn’t it?

  149. 149
    sukabi says:

    @Jeffro:

    With Michael Cohen alleging that Trump knew about the Trump Tower meeting in real time — despite many previous denials — Giuliani told both CNN and Fox News that Trump wasn’t physically at the meeting.

    So he was on speakerphone…good to clear that up.

  150. 150
    Jeffro says:

    @p.a.:

    Here’s the winner of the centerpiece raffle…

    Whole ‘nother level there…BWAH-HA-HA!

  151. 151
    Kay says:

    @MattF:

    I think they’re just sticking with what works- it worked to portray Clinton as “charged with a crime and found guilty” so they plug it in here too- “not charged and innocent”- but I don’t think it works opposite- they can claim someone is charged with a crime when they aren’t (Clinton) but they can’t claim Trumpsters aren’t charged when they are.

    The Trump indictments are real. The Clinton indictment was imaginary. That’s where the plan falls apart :)

  152. 152
    Brachiator says:

    @trollhattan:

    Rand Paul wouldn’t recognize a principle if it bit him in the ass and called him Napoleon.

    Rand Paul wouldn’t recognize a principle if it chased him across his yard and kicked his ass.

  153. 153
    Jeffro says:

    @PPCLI:

    So why did Rudy feel compelled to add that Trump didn’t pay for the hacks? Perhaps they are preemptively denying something that they anticipate Cohen might say?

    It’s going to come out that the Trumpov campaign was offered the hacked emails, or was offered the opportunity to direct how/when/which ones were released. “Here, Jr…here, Jared…here, Paul…take a look at all of this and let us know: you want it, or you want us to have Wikileaks release it? Which ones are most hurtful to Secretary Clinton?” They’re not going to be able to deny the facts of that cooperation…collusion…conspiracy, if you will.

    So… they’re trying to pretend that it’s a non-issue if Trumpov didn’t pay for it. Which is complete bullshit. The Russians called offering stolen material? YOU. CALL. THE. FBI. More importantly, you don’t go on a two-year Twitter rage-fest denying that shit happened when it damn well did. Fucking liar.

  154. 154
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: The pizzagate thing is an extension of an alt-right/4chan/reddit meme that all liberals, all social justice warriors, etc are pedophiles. This is what Cernovich and Posobiec weaponized against James Gunn two weeks ago and when Disney bit on it, they then tried to use against Patton Oswalt, Sarah Silverman, and several others. Fortunately, those follow on attempts went nowhere.

  155. 155
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Aardvark Cheeselog: You do your quantum entanglement schtick your way, I’ll do it mine.

  156. 156
    Teddys Person says:

    @geg6: Rest in Power is a great title. That’s one of the docs I’ll have to watch once I’m emotionally prepared to watch. Even thinking about Travon Martin, Tamir Rice and the countless people of colored murdered in cold blood makes me weep. I teach US history and cover lynching from Reconstruction through the Cvil Rights Movment of the 1950s and 1960s. I’m alwasy so proud when my students talk about how this is not a problem that has been solved and there’s more work to do.

    Regarding the Hill interview, I particularly liked the section where Oliver asked what he (and other bystanders) should do.

  157. 157
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @MCA1: To the Queen!

  158. 158
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @The Moar You Know: I have never been confused for a software engineer.

  159. 159
    MattF says:

    @Jeffro: Well, but I have an odd feeling that there’s a problem with vehemently denying accusations that haven’t been made yet. Particularly if you’re known to constantly lie about everything, all the time.

  160. 160
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @geg6:

  161. 161
    Jeffro says:

    @sukabi: why is this making me think of SNL’s “The Amazing Colossal President” sketch? I think my late-afternoon wiring is malfunctioning…

    Press: “was the president listening in to the meeting via speaker phone?”

    Possum Queen: “no”

    Press: “was…the…president listening from just outside the room, eavesdropping through the door?”

    PQ: “no!”

    Press: “hmm…did the president…’accidentally’ stop by the suite to use the bathroom while the meeting was taking place?”

    PQ: “NOt really, no”

    Press: “did he stop by to…invite them up for taco salads for lunch?”

    PQ: “No comment”

  162. 162
    jl says:

    I think I have this straight now:
    “[Trump] didn’t know about it. I know that. I’ve been over this in great detail.”
    “Well, anything could have happened”
    “Nobody can be sure of anything”
    “I don’t know”

    I’m good. Ready for the pop quiz, which could be any day this week!

    Edit: one clip of Rudy’s Fox appearance shows the Fox blonde taking notes and making diagrams on a legal pad and she was still, understandably, flummoxed.

  163. 163
    MattF says:

    @jl: Since, after all, it’s Infrastructure Week.

  164. 164
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I have never been confused for a software engineer.

    You behave well, that’s why.

  165. 165
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Apparently I missed this!

  166. 166
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @LAO: No, for representation of this caliber Rudy would have to be paying Trump.

  167. 167
    clay says:

    @Adam L Silverman: HuffPo ran a profile of Cernovich a few days back. Dude sees pedophiles everywhere.

    His supporters are so deranged that they think anyone who doesn’t denounce Gunn (who, for the record, has never been accused of pedophila, just of joking about it) must be a pedo as well. They’re going after Chris Pratt now for standing by his friend.

  168. 168
    MomSense says:

    So Rudy can fail.

    Whaddya know.

  169. 169
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @geg6: The citizens of NY can only be grateful that he did not choose to make his mark as a defense attorney.

  170. 170
    MattF says:

    @clay: Derangement is part of the deal. Via Rick Wilson’s Twitter feed: Todd Kincannon announces that he’s the second coming of Jesus.

  171. 171
    karen marie says:

    @efgoldman: Charges being filed is still very much a question. I am not going to hold my breath. The will to hold people in power to account is very low in this country.

  172. 172
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @MomSense: Ha!

    Catching up on the news after a day spent mostly in the woods, I was a little surprised to see Chris Christie making the “collusion is not illegal” argument (admission). I guess he still thinks succeeding John Kelly (the only explanation that makes sense to me) is the golden key to a future (which makes no sense politically, but maybe he just wants to graze in taller grass after a few months of leaking how hard he’s trying to normalize the trump White House)

  173. 173
    geg6 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Yeah, I saw that over the weekend. That guy is gonna piss off the wrong person and it won’t be a young kid with nothing but Skittles and iced tea with which to defend himself. And I will laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh and…

  174. 174
    lgerard says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The pizzagate thing is an extension of an alt-right/4chan/reddit meme that all liberals, all social justice warriors, etc are pedophiles.

    There is another part of this as well. Not only is there the belief that a vast conspiracy exists surrounding Jarrod Fogle/Huma/Hillary/Podesta, there is also the assertion that trump has single handedly rounded up hundreds of pedophile rings and freed thousands of children.

    I have a nonpolitical friend who reads gossip blogs incessantly and she tells me she sees this all the time. In the middle of some blog post about Beyonce or The Real Housewives there will be numerous comments by trumpbots about trumps tremendous accomplishments in this area.

  175. 175
    catclub says:

    @Brachiator: well of course not. That’s what neighbors do.

  176. 176
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @clay: I saw the HuffPo piece, as well as The Daily Beast piece. Cernovich was charged with rape, pled down to assault, and then somehow got his record expunged and sealed. He’s tweeted out that he badly beat a transgender woman after he realized he was having sex with one. I’ve watched videos of him get handsy with journalists and people trying to document his antics. Eventually he’s going to lose it and really physically hurt someone. If I was his well heeled lawyer ex-wife, I’d get a court order keeping him away from her and their kid.

  177. 177
    RedDirtGirl says:

    At work, so can’t read the thread yet, but when I watched the Fox segment earlier, the best part was after these snippets, where they brought out some young fellow to (try to) clean up the mess in aisle Rudy. “Just so our listeners are clear, Mayor, you said thus and such. Please just give a yes or no answer. OKTXBI!

  178. 178
    germy says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks to her, he is also well heeled.

  179. 179
    catclub says:

    @Brachiator: Of course, Collins, McCain, Flake, and Corker are no better. Principles-wise vis-a-vis Kavanaugh

  180. 180
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @SFAW: Could be spread by saliva when Trump is frothing at the mouth. I think this is probable as he seems to have infected the whole WH.

  181. 181
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @MattF: Someone’s going to get a very nice rest and some lovely pharmaceuticals.

  182. 182
    catclub says:

    When did the “Latest posts’ section of the page – near the top, on the right – disappear. That was useful, so I guess it had to go.

  183. 183
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lgerard: QAnon. Who has either exceeded expectations if he’s trolling things knuckleheads or exceeded expectations if he’s just trying to get them to go along with his conspiracy thinking.

  184. 184
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @germy: 7 figure alimony settlement.

  185. 185
    Brachiator says:

    @lgerard:

    There is another part of this as well. Not only is there the belief that a vast conspiracy exists surrounding Jarrod Fogle/Huma/Hillary/Podesta, there is also the assertion that trump has single handedly rounded up hundreds of pedophile rings and freed thousands of children.

    This is insane. I cannot think of two many times when some much cult-like nonsense has adhered to a political leader.

    The other crazy thing, of course, is that Trump is alleged to have solved crimes for which he might plausibly be a perpetrator.

  186. 186
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @catclub: It was causing some of the problems, so Alain took it down until he can figure out how to make it work without screwing up the site for half of our readers/commenters.

  187. 187
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Holy Crap!

  188. 188
    Jay says:

    Ball of Colusion,

    That’s what the world is today,

    Hey, hey

  189. 189
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Well, now we know what they were doing when they should have been busy saving the lives of American citizens in Puerto Rico. 🤬

  190. 190
    Steve in the STL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: free legal advice from an actual labor and employment lawyer: don’t do that!

  191. 191
    sukabi says:

    @Adam L Silverman: think when this all shakes out it will be found that trump brought his business interests directly into the WH and government… Sex trafficking, prostitution, human trafficking: child edition.

    Money laundering, grifting and other “petty crimes” are on full display and it doesn’t raise an eyebrow.

  192. 192
    jl says:

    @sukabi: I read that guy is a career employee who predated Trump admin. It’s just an extremely vile criminal who got into federal government, as he could have gotten into any organization.

  193. 193
    Mart says:

    I think their defense is to throw the worst of their bullshit out front with a dizzying array of side stories. Distract tru believers. Can’t believe what you see yaknow.

  194. 194
    Steve in the STL says:

    @MomSense: well played

  195. 195
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steve in the STL: I didn’t even need to ask a labor and employment lawyer to know that is the wrong thing to do. Unless one is running a brothel, in which case other labor and employment issues need to be addressed.

  196. 196
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: Yep, Senior Executive Service as of 2011. Not a political appointment.

  197. 197
    sukabi says:

    @jl: that may be true for this guy but it seems to be a theme in Trump’s hires. If you’re 2° separated from either Russians, money laundering, or trading in sex you’re ‘IN’. Bonus points for 2 or more of the above.

  198. 198
    Steve in the STL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I was just trying to get my name out of the “dumbest lawyer” conversation

  199. 199
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steve in the STL: I understand completely.

  200. 200
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Jeffro: We should land nicely on “Collusion is fucking awesome, suck it libs” by November 2020.

  201. 201
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @SFAW: Othello is Iago’s superior officer (he’s upset at being passed over for promotion), so he’s a betrayer in a chain-of-command sense as well as a fake-friendship sense.

    Maybe not treasonous in the betrayer-of-the-State sense, but “treason” historically had a wider range of application than in US law.

  202. 202
    Tehanu says:

    @Gravenstone:

    So you’re saying that what Trump has is contagious? That could be … interesting. Especially if air transmittable.

    This reminds me of the scene in Edgar Pangborn’s A Mirror for Observers in which the mad scientist jumps off the roof of a skyscraper, holding a test tube of the plague virus he invented in his hand, screaming “Airborne!” If only Dump would imitate him, sans plague virus, of course.

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