Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Serenity

Because I think we could all use some serenity, great shots from commentor Dan B:

I think the pictures were taken in south Bellevue, Wa, across Lake Washington from Seattle.

Wobbles the kitty would be in a garden in the Beacon Hill neighborhood of Seattle.

I’m finally starting to get some ripe tomatoes from my rootpouch ‘garden’ north of Boston. Ate the first fine, fat Carmello with some marinated feta from a local farmstand and a little olive oil… and remembered why I go to so much trouble and aggravation every spring!

What’s going on in your garden(s), this week?

180 replies
  1. 1
    NotMax says:


    ‘Maters Are Great Again.

    Looked at the forecast for the first few days shall be in NY. Thunderstorms, followed by thunderstorms, with an encore of thunderstorms.

  2. 2
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    I didn’t get a good enough look to tell if I was visited by a yellow house finch or an immature goldfinch in our sunflowers this week. I stopped off to admire the number of bees at work in them, and the bird zipped up and briefly perched on one of the flowers to check me out.

    The peppers are ready to be used for self-defense. The first batch came out of the dehydrator about mid-week.

  3. 3
    Amir Khalid says:

    Kitteh! The plants are nice, too.

  4. 4
    NotMax says:

    No offense to birds, but they don’t belong in the crawlspace under the roof, setting up nests there. There is one ventilation hole in the fascia which is physically impossible to block off with those metal louver disks (too complicated to explain the geography of the layout). For many years, a wadded up ball of aluminum foil stuffed into the hole worked but this year they have learned to pull it out. Yesterday, screwed in a piece of scrap wood to cover up as much of the 5/8 of the opening which can be blocked off as possible.

  5. 5
    raven says:

    Nice! I’m waiting for the sun to come up to survey the situation after the hail storm last night. I hope it trashed the finish on our lexus but I doubt it!

  6. 6
    NotMax says:


    Somewhere deep down, you want to paint it flat barbecue black, don’t you?


  7. 7
    raven says:

    @NotMax: I still have 2 gallons of John Deere Blitz Black left form my truck. We bought the lexus from a friend a couple of year ago and the paint is failing badly. We dumped 3k into it right after we bough it for a timing belt and a bunch of associated parts so the damn thing should run forever.

  8. 8
    raven says:

    4000 still without power here.

  9. 9
    NotMax says:


    Tracey Ullman, Paint It Black.


    (Love the little details such as they went to the trouble to paint the individual grapes in the bowl.)

  10. 10
    raven says:

    @NotMax: Ever see “Plenty” with her and Streep?

  11. 11
    Jeff says:

    From yesterday through this whole week we might get showers everyday. Last time this happened in Philadelphia PA at this time of year was the “tomato year”. That was 1994. If you only had one plant it massed produced. I am curious to see if history repeats itself.

  12. 12
    NotMax says:


    Don’t believe I have.

  13. 13
    JPL says:

    @raven: If it is not dinged now, just wait. Except for today, it appears that we are in the same weather pattern for the next ten days.

  14. 14
    raven says:


    Plenty was met with mixed reviews upon release. It currently holds a 57% rating on Rotten Tomatoes from 14 critics.

    Movie critic Roger Ebert gave the film three-and-a-half stars out of four. He said that Streep gave “a performance of great subtlety; it is hard to play an unbalanced, neurotic, self-destructive woman, and do it with such gentleness and charm… Streep creates a whole character around a woman who could have simply been a catalogue of symptoms.”[3]

    Fair cast

    Meryl Streep as Susan Traherne
    Charles Dance as Raymond Brock
    Tracey Ullman as Alice Park
    John Gielgud as Sir Leonard Darwin
    Sting as Mick
    Ian McKellen as Sir Andrew Charleson
    Sam Neill as Lazar

  15. 15
    raven says:

    @JPL: If that didn’t do it I don’t think anything will!

  16. 16
    JPL says:

    This link has pictures of Raven’s hail from last night..

  17. 17
    raven says:

    @JPL: Ours was nowhere near that big.

  18. 18
    satby says:

    Yesterday my grass was almost a solid shade of brown, but 24 hours of real rain for the first time in weeks has it all greening up again. Too late possibly for two blueberry bushes and one climbing rose, even though I was trying to keep them watered during our drought and hear wave. But the tomato I almost killed seems to be recovering, the other one has lots of green tomatoes. During the hot nights the flowers weren’t setting into fruit, so no ripe ones yet. Which will be pretty late in the year before I finally have some home grown ones.

  19. 19
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄😄😄

  20. 20
    rikyrah says:

    The pictures for this week are beautiful 😄

  21. 21
    satby says:

    @satby: heat wave. Someday edit will work on mobile, right?

  22. 22
  23. 23
    satby says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning 😊

    Yes, the pictures are beautiful, thanks Dan B!

  24. 24
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Love that pergola.

  25. 25
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  26. 26
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @JPL: Impressive. Or, as we say in CO, June.

  27. 27
    JPL says:

    @A Ghost To Most: Fortunately that was in the Athens area. I live in North Fulton, and we just had heavy rain.

  28. 28
    zhena gogolia says:


    We have the same forecast. I’m hoping the thunderstorms won’t be continuous. I think they just don’t know which thunderstorm will hit where when, so they just make it a blanket prediction. In reality there will be stretches of non-thunderstorm. But who knows.

  29. 29

    We had dinner at our son and DIL’s house last night. My DIL is a fabulous cook. We staggered home stunned by the food we’d scarfed down and hauled home with us. Win!

  30. 30
    Ken says:

    “tomato year”. If you only had one plant it massed produced.

    I’m not seeing the problem. Wait – do you mean like zucchini, where you end up alienating all your friends with daily “gifts from my garden”, and end up having to rent a dump truck to haul the extras to a landfill?

  31. 31
    burnspbesq says:

    OC is having its second blast os September weather in July: 90s all week. Triple digits likely for Bill and Mnem.

  32. 32
    burnspbesq says:


    If you also have cucumbers, you can make gazpacho in a 50-gallon drum.

  33. 33
    Kristine says:

    Still raining lightly here in far NE Illinois. Maybe an inch or so will have been had by the time the front pushes through later today. It was needed.

    No veggies this year. But the hosta are all blooming–I always took their flowers for grated but some varieties really are lovely. Stargazer lilies opening, as are the hibiscus. First year for cardinal flowers and bee balm–both are flowering and the hummers seem to like them.

  34. 34
    burnspbesq says:

    If there are any lacrosse fans out there who missed the final of the world championship because it happened in the dead of night U.S. time, watch the replay on the WatchESPN app. One of the best games you will ever see.

  35. 35
    evodevo says:

    @NotMax: Ratwire (also called hardware cloth) is good for that kind of thing. You might be able to stabilize it with screws/washers or a staple gun to keep them from pulling it off …

  36. 36
    Rileys Enabler says:

    @burnspbesq: NLF championships this afternoon. 5 of our 91TX guys on the Maryland team, should be a good game v. Crabs.

  37. 37
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @evodevo: Hardware cloth has kept my chicken coop mouse free for 5 years. (and once I fixed the hole in a window screen, weasel free too).

  38. 38
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Sounds like a great birthday! Are you enjoying your new home? All settled in?

  39. 39
    Schlemazel says:

    Mobsters Are Governing America

  40. 40
    Schlemazel says:

    I understand you are in for more of the same weather. Maybe hop in the car & see if you can find the worst hail as it is falling!

    JK- hunker down & protect yourself

  41. 41

    @SiubhanDuinne: I think we made a good decision to move here. I haven’t settled into a normal life yet, by which I mean I don’t have regular times to write or grocery shop or stuff like that. But I will.

  42. 42
    Schlemazel says:

    Sorry if this is already known but the size of the hail indicates how powerful the storm is. They need updrafts strong enough to lift the hail back up to make it bigger. Those golf ball sized things indicate a very dangerous storm. We get that once every few years out here on the tundra & they always have tornadoes to help them along.

    I have heard of grapefruit / softball sized stones but never seent them (hope to continue that streak). That would be a monster
    stay safe out there

  43. 43
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    The weather is perfect this wkend: clear bluebird skies, mid 80’s, low humidity. Hard to believe it’s July in the Ozarks.

    I am about to go on Jihad against squirrels, chipmunks, and mice. They are destroying my tomatoes before I can get to them. I go out in the early evening to pick tomatoes and all I find are the green, yellow, and red remains of slaughter strewn about on the ground. It’s heartbreaking to see a beautiful, fist sized, fully ripe Amana Orange tomato lying on the ground half eaten. And I see this times a dozen or more every day. One morning last week while hunting hornworms in the pre-dawn darkness I had a mouse run across a horizontal member of my tomato trellis right in front of my face and not a foot away. The bold little bastard had to know I was there even if he couldn’t see the UV light. I was so stunned I just stood there with my jaw on the ground and watched him go by.


  44. 44
    tybee says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: does the UV aid in hunting down the hornworms?

  45. 45
    Jeffro says:

    Last night was quite the downpour…looks like we are in for more of the same later today, Monday, and Tuesday.

    Good day to catch up on reading and naps!

  46. 46
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Schlemazel: I have seen baseball sized hail. My ’72 Chevy p/u was parked out in the open and came thru unscathed. Not a scratch, I think maybe a dimple or 2.

    My Aunt and Uncle who owned the fishing and hunting camp on Lake of the Woods had softball sized hail their first season there. Took out most of the windows and holed every roof. Damn near wiped them out. The guests who were there at the time all put away the fishing rods and strapped on tool belts to help reroof the lodge, and every cabin and outbuilding on the island.

  47. 47
    satby says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: it is frustrating. Have you tried leaving a pan of water on the ground so they aren’t eating them out of thirst? Or is fencing them off out of the question?
    In MI, I used to just take them off the vines at 5/6 ripened, and let them finish that last day or so safely on my windowsill. Otherwise between the bunnies and the deer I wouldn’t have gotten any. There were mice too, but they were busy eating my blue potatoes and left the tomatoes alone.

  48. 48
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @tybee: Yes, their color in UV is different from the tomato vines. Some will practically fluoresce. Not sure why some do that and others don’t. I assume it has to do with variations (leaf/mater?) in diet. Either way, even the ones that don’t are easily discernible, tho one still has to be careful not to miss a worm hiding under a leaf or on the backside of a vine.

  49. 49
    debbie says:

    I ask this as a non-yard owner: Am I wrong to think the photos are of a Japanese dogwood, a Japanese peony, and a cat?

  50. 50
    Schlemazel says:

    It does seem to be a great plains thing – OK, KS. Scary as hell

  51. 51
    debbie says:


    I remember liking that movie. Streep is awesome.

  52. 52
    tybee says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: i’ll try that next time we have an infestation.

  53. 53
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: Standing water makes for skeeters. I have a bird bath that I refresh every day but I try to keep all other sources eliminated. As for fencing, they climb right over it or dig under it. It’s impossible to keep the little bstrds out. If I see more than a little color I pick them. Problem is they aren’t waiting for them to ripen at all.

  54. 54
    debbie says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    You got out of there just in time, what with the twin tornadoes and all!

  55. 55
    Schlemazel says:

    Our liberal media in the form of CBS Sunday Morning is tsk-tsking us liberals for not being civil in response to hair furor and his Nazi battalions.

  56. 56
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Schlemazel: The Plains have truly monstrous storms, but the hail here is far beyond anything I ever saw in Omaha. Inches to feet of small hail, requiring plowing. Golf ball to tennis ball size is common in June. The largest hailstone I’ve seen reported was 11″ across.

  57. 57
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @tybee: I hunt them every morning and nearly always find a few. Only been skunked twice this year. One morn I found 6 an inch plus long and as thin as a pencil lead. I got lucky that day.

  58. 58
    WereBear says:

    @Schlemazel: I underestimated them.

    I thought they were soulless greedy hypocritical assholes but I never expected TREASON.

    If saying that makes me uncivil, so be it.

  59. 59
    WereBear says:

    I must be missing the tomato tasting gene, because none I have ever tasted is worth the torment you folks go through to get some.

    I admire it, though.

  60. 60
    debbie says:


    Farmers’ markets: All of the taste, none of the work!

  61. 61
    Schlemazel says:

    @A Ghost To Most:
    Sorry, where is that? The largest examples I have heard about are on those plains. We will occasionally get big stuff here on the tundra, maybe once a decade or so. More common is pea to marble size with drifts of the stuff from big drops

  62. 62

    @debbie: That struck south of where we lived, but it looked bad.

  63. 63
    satby says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: these work great and don’t impact anything but mosquito larva:

    I put them in my birdbaths, flower pot saucers (broken in half or fourths) and in my rain barrel even though that has a screen. I even put them in low spots where water will pool during rainstorms. I used to pitch an entire 20 dunk pack into the pond next to my house in MI, didn’t kill all the larva but reduced the numbers down to where the peepers could provide decent control. Had loads of pollywogs that never minded the dunks. Highly recommended, and totally safe for critters. Apologies for the naked link.

  64. 64
    Schlemazel says:

    They even had world famous Democrat, Alan Dershowitz on to tell us that it is not his exclusion from Vinyard social life that injures him so, it is that this is no worse that Japanese internment of Bull Connor nightsicking civil rights protestors so we should be more like MLK. I noticed he failed to mention one ugly period of history when the US was uncivil in response to Germany.

  65. 65
    Heidi Mom says:

    @raven: IIRC, Charles Dance’s character was rather mild and ineffectual, the exact opposite of Tywin Lannister. Good movie, great actor.

  66. 66
    Baud says:

    GOS actually has a good post up.

    Democrats need to #VoteLikeBlackWomen

  67. 67
    WereBear says:

    @Schlemazel: Never liked the guy, now vindicated. Tell you what, it’s the social shunning that hurts the most.

    Pour it on, I say. Time to be uncivil.

  68. 68
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: I have used them before but never in water that was a drinking source for animals. Had just assumed it would make the water unpalatable. Thanx.

  69. 69
    jharp says:

    We’ve had three straight days of rain in central Indiana and I gotta say it has been pretty soothing.

    It waters the trees and lawns, it washes away the dirt and grime, and the respite from the blazing sun is wonderful.

  70. 70
    Schlemazel says:

    He also pimped his book, “The Case Against Impeaching Trump”. So you know he is a very civil man. The sort of guy you could see sitting first chair in the orchestra that greeted the trains at . . . OH MY, how uncivil of me

  71. 71
    satby says:

    @jharp: it’s been wonderful, as has the cooler air it’s brought in.

  72. 72
    stinger says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Now I know why you moved!

  73. 73
    debbie says:


    The RWNJ “embrace” of MLK is an abomination. I’ve heard Glenn Beck compare himself to King (favorably, of course) several times.

  74. 74
    Gelfling 545 says:

    Lovely, peaceful garden.
    It’s supposed to rain here all week which will make my garden happy which will make me happy. We haven’t had any soaking rain in weeks.

  75. 75
    Gin & Tonic says:

    For trainwreck enthusiasts, I understand Carter Page will be on Jake Tapper’s show on CNN this morning. I will not be watching, as I have stuff to do and the Tour de France is better TV anyway.

  76. 76
    JPL says:

    @Gin & Tonic: It was typical Page. He didn’t advise the Kremlin, and when he said he did, he meant informal conversations. Russia if you are listening to me, you need to pay more in order to get better agents.

  77. 77
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @debbie: MLK never went to a peaceful demonstration with out his Colt .45.

  78. 78
    Baud says:


    Magnitsky Act sanctions required some…cutbacks.

  79. 79
    Schlemazel says:

    It is sady hilarious that his listeners think it is just wonderful that he has all the traits of a man they hate and disrespect.

    My sister, who left planet reality during the last election has been calling for civility on her fb posts. My comment back was “Fine, since your side started it you go first.” She retreated to posting flag-waving bullshit about how we should honor veterans. I reminded her my kid is a combat vet & hers never served

  80. 80
    Baud says:

    @Schlemazel: Good for you.

  81. 81
    debbie says:


    “Sadly hilarious” is how I see most everything in this country, at least when I’m not totally pissed off, and I still haven’t spoken to my family members who went for Trump.

  82. 82
    hedgehog mobile says:

    @Schlemazel: Well done!

  83. 83
    Barbara says:

    @Schlemazel: I start more than a few conversations with “My two nephews are currently serving in the military…”

  84. 84
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @debbie: I have been longing for an emoji signifying rueful laughter for some time now.

  85. 85
    laura says:

    Lovely pictures- especially the OrangeBoy.
    It’s been hotter than two squirrels getting it on in a wool sock or the last several weeks. My garden is in a real torpor/slump. I got my hopes up that a visiting butterfly left eggs on the milkweed, but on close inspection, it’s not the monarch’s random pattern, but a cluster of eggs. It’s off to the farmers market for gazpacho fixings and peaches.
    Here’s a Sunday favorite to share:

  86. 86
    JAM says:

    Picked about 2 or 3 pounds of tomatoes from my Sungold plant this morning. If you like cherry tomatoes I recommend that variety. Very, very tasty. I only have one plant and give pounds of them away to anyone who will take them. Left half of this batch on the neighbor’s porch.

  87. 87
    Schlemazel says:

    I try to not bring it up because it is nothing I did (hell, I saw how this nation treats it soldiers & vets – I tried to dissuade him). I generally only mention it if it is relevant or when people who had “other priorities” or bone spurs try to hid behind the armed forces.

  88. 88
    raven says:

    @Schlemazel: The old “how they treated vets”!

  89. 89
    Amir Khalid says:

    I have learned that the Vietnam vet in Born In The U.S.A., who comes home to a country that hasn’t bothered to save him a place, is but one chapter in a long sad history.

  90. 90
    Schlemazel says:

    Yeah, particularly the GOP of the last 40 years. Cut benefits, deny claims, piss on those who dare disagree with them & hide behind the uniform.

    Compare how they treated 2x Purple Heart John Kerry or Humayun Khan to how they wave vets in front of Dump, Darth and Newt as a shield

  91. 91
    Gelfling 545 says:

    Sigh. My cayenne peppers set fruit and..they are not cayenne. Looks like jalapeño possibly which isn’t bad but I will have no cayenne to dry for winter cooking.

  92. 92
    raven says:

    @Amir Khalid: “Got in a little hometown jam”. . . that’s how I ended up there.

  93. 93
    raven says:

    @Schlemazel: and when you say it most people immediately think of hippies spitting

  94. 94
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Gelfling 545: I can send you some.

  95. 95
    Schlemazel says:

    Even IF that were true (and we can pretty much demonstrate it was not) it pales in comparison to the shit our own government dumps on them.

  96. 96
    WaterGirl says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: The first year I EVER planted tulips, I would shout DEATH TO BUNNIES! as I got out of my car. It was heartbreaking to see all the beautiful new blooms razored off just under the flower, way too short to even rescue and put in a vase. I was a youngster then and went out a lot in the evenings, and I would see the bunnies in action in the headlights as I pulled into the driveway.

    I would never do anything to the bunnies for year, but even saying it was gratifying.

    Do you have a plan to win your war? Seems like with opposable thumbs you should be able to win it. Somehow.

  97. 97
    Kay says:


    I think there’s some misunderstanding or weirdness about how this is being portrayed- not by the “vote like black women” author but by people in general discussing this.

    There are Democratic voters, sure, but there’s also a Democratic Party organization, an entity. A real thing that consists of people taking “official” roles in the Democratic Party, and it goes all the way down to the local level and black people are a part of that. Not where I live- where I live it’s rural and white (voters and ‘officials’) but in other parts of the country black people hold leadership positions in the “establishment” of the Democratic Party.

    So when white liberals say they are opposing the “establishment” of the Democratic Party they need to realize that it isn’t wholly run by white people, that in some areas, especially in the south, they are opposing black people who are in local leadership positions. This would also be true in parts of the north- it’s definitely true in Cleveland and I understand it to be true in Chicago.

    It’s an odd frame. It’s as if we have sort of disappeared black leaders in the Democratic Party- especially at the local level. I think it might come from liberals accepting a Right wing frame- the “plantation” idea that conservatives have put forth. What the “plantation” idea ignores is that black people run parts of the Democratic Party.

    I think they need to distinguish between black voters and black leaders. Democrats have both. If you’re opposing the “establishment” in the Democratic Party you will be inevitably opposing some black leaders IN the Democratic Party. I don’t mean “call themselves Democrats” or “vote for Democrats”, I mean people who hold actual Party positions.

    This rift is set up as if it’s “white Party leaders and white voters” and then “black voters”. There’s more to it than that. There are black Party leaders. They would BE the establishment in some areas of the country.

    If you’re a precinct head in a majority black area you are 1. “the establishment” and 2. most likely a black person. They have to reckon with that reality if they’re opposing the “establishment”.

  98. 98
    rikyrah says:

    Uh huh
    Uh huh😒😒

    Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha) Tweeted:
    This all-hands-on-deck smear campaign to elect a carpetbagger in KS03 because the Native American woman isn’t a fellow Bernie Cultist is beyond disgusting.

  99. 99
    raven says:

    @Schlemazel: It’s still the “conventional wisdom”. Every fucking article about this or that Nam vet reinforces it.

  100. 100
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    I see that Glenn Greenwald has his panties in a bunch over the pending expulsion of Assange from the Ecuadorian Embassy.

  101. 101
    raven says:

    Tiger is making a real run.

  102. 102
  103. 103
    Kay says:


    It comes up in the “black Democrats are more conservative” thing too. If you’re black and you’re part of the Democratic “establishment” you probably support the Democratic establishment, given that you volunteered to serve an official role in it (precinct, county or state level).

    So would those people be “more conservative” or are they just Party people so therefore pro-establishment? They could be Left or Right of the “Democratic base” (voters) and still be pro-Democratic “establishment”, meaning the organized entity of the Democratic Party that has actual people with real roles in it.

  104. 104
    WaterGirl says:


    Russia if you are listening to me, you need to pay more in order to get better agents.


    P.S. Autocorrect suggested that spelling – apparently there must bee a certain number of HAs for it to be spelled correctly. Who knew? Now if only it could do that for eewwww, which I never know how to spell.

  105. 105
    Schlemazel says:

    One of Paul Wellstone’s big wins was that he fought tirelessly for veteran benefits. When his gopper opponent tried to ply the ‘anti-military’ card on him the VFW and Legion tore the Republican up. Of all the morally reprehensible things the Dems have capitulated to this abandonment of vets in one of the worst. Maybe they could not get benefits repaired but by blunting the attack they could win more elections & actually do what is right by those who served. Kids today deserve nothing less than what we did for WWII vets and probably more as they were not pressed into service but chose to stand

  106. 106
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    They have to reckon with that reality

    No they don’t, Kay. Just ask them.

  107. 107
    WereBear says:

    @Kay: An excellent point. I also see, with young voters in an age of social media, a lack of understanding about why we have parties at all, and what they do, which leads to some bizarre assumptions.

  108. 108
    The Midnight Lurker says:

    Hi, Juicers — I just heard Mara Liasson on NPR say, “…President cuck– Trump…” I shit you not!

  109. 109
    Kay says:


    So this would be me – as an example :)

    This year I took an official role in the county Party. That would (I guess) make me an establishment person. I’m fine with that by the way- I don’t care.

    BUT, I would be “Left” of the Democratic voters here on immigration and abortion. “Establishment” but to the Left of the base.

    It’s complicated. I think we have to make two groups- Party leaders and voters and talk about them differently.

  110. 110
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    a lack of understanding about why we have parties at all,

    Older voters too, especially when it comes to the 2 party system we have here.

  111. 111
    geg6 says:


    Now that’s a pleasant bit of news this fine morning.

  112. 112
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @geg6: Well, I’ve been reading for months that it was going to happen “any day now” and it still hasn’t happened. Being wholly ignorant of Ecuadorian politics I have no idea of what the pressure points are and how they play against each other. All of which is just a long way of saying, “I’ll believe it when I see it.”

  113. 113
    Kay says:


    It seems particularly weird in the south, where black people are such a huge part of the Democratic Party.

    They are the establishment. I don’t know who else would BE the establishment, local and state. So Lefties wouldn’t be just courting black voters– they would be challenging black members of the establishment. People who chose official roles in the entity and have been part of this for decades.

  114. 114
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Imagine Greenwald hyperventilating about something that hasn’t happened.

    I, too, will believe it when I see it.

  115. 115
    geg6 says:

    Another bit of good news I saw this morning is that PA is leading the nation in registering 18-34 year olds to vote. So far this year, it’s up 18% and a clear majority of overall new registrations in the state (can’t link—damn phone—but it’s on PennLIVE). The Parkland kids seem to have been the impetus but Tom Steyer’s voter registration organization seems to have provided the ground trooos and strategists. People bitch about his spending on commercials but he’s doing good stuff on the ground.

  116. 116
    raven says:

    @Kay: I don’t know if you saw what I posted some time ago. The husband of a highly progressive city-council person here canvassed quite a bit in African American neighborhoods. He said he wasn’t making a judgement but he was shocked by how many folks there were Trump supporters. This was this summer too.

  117. 117
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kay: Bernie was very dismissive of Hillary’s primary victories in the south saying they didn’t really count because DEMs would never carry those states in the general election. Make of that what you will but I don’t think it is an accident.

  118. 118
    Kay says:


    Conservative switch back and forth, too. On the one hand black people are on “the Democratic Party plantation” and on the other hand black people run Democratic politics.

    Which is it? If they’re running Democratic politics then they’re not on a plantation. If they are running the Democratic Party in Chicago (they always use Chicago as the example) then they’re RUNNING it. Not on a plantation. Pretty powerful, really, one would have to say, right?

    They said it during Obama’s runs in Ohio. “He’s taking advantage of the ‘Democratic machine’ in the Three C’s. If there’s a Democratic machine in the Three C’s and it’s run by AA mayors then they’re 1. establishment and 2. powerful.

    They can’t have it both ways.

    Democrats have to stop allowing Republicans to define the Democratic Party. They don’t know anything about it.

  119. 119
    Kay says:


    We have a lot of anti-abortion Democrats and (frankly) anti-immigration Democrats. We actually have a real split between gun owners and gun regulation people (100% women on that side)

    Some of those people are also anti-establishment, ie: “me”- they think I’m the establishment, which I am- in a not very powerful way. But I’m to the Left of them on those issues!

  120. 120
    debbie says:


    I remember as a child, watching my grandmother chase rabbits across her lawn carrying a rake. I watched my mother catch and drown chipmunks in a trash barrel. As the only daughter, I have chosen to halt this legacy of malevolence.

  121. 121
    Kay says:


    I don’t know anything about southern Democratic politics but since so many AA in the south are Democrats I would think they would be in “establishment” roles by now since it’s been DECADES so probably not “anti-establishment”.

    I wouldn’t be running around making assumptions about it, that’s for sure, if the assumption is they have no power in the organization.

  122. 122
    Baud says:

    @Kay: If you’re the Establishment, I don’t want a Revolution.

    Speaking of black voters, I thought this was also interesting.

    The Democratic Party Apologizes to Black Voters

    The DNC’s bid to energize African American turnout this fall began with these words from Chairman Tom Perez in Atlanta: “I am sorry.”

  123. 123
    raven says:

    @Kay: A couple of years ago my African American HVAC guy was here working with his helper and the dude said “ya’ll let all these Mexicans in here and take our jobs”!

  124. 124
    WaterGirl says:

    @debbie: Chasing rabbits across the garden carrying a rake, I could probably get behind that even though I wouldn’t do it myself. But drowning chipmunks is a bridge too far. Way too far. I salute you for ending the chain of violence.

  125. 125
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kay: Here in Misery rural Democrats have become few and far between. By default that makes the AA DEM power bases in STL and KC very influential, probably the most influential in the DEM party. As overtly racist as this state has become in the last couple decades that probably means minority status for the foreseeable future. (the rural/urban split plays into this dynamic as well)

  126. 126
    WereBear says:

    @Kay: Democrats have to stop allowing Republicans to define the Democratic Party. They don’t know anything about it.

    Yes, I am very much not a fan of “But Republicans will say…” They are going to make all kinds of accusations and lies and stir up trouble. They should be ignored and we’ll all be better off.

  127. 127
    burnspbesq says:

    I’d just like to see Assange locked in a room with Chelsea Manning for five minutes. I assume she hasn’t forgotten everything she learned in basic.

  128. 128
    satby says:

    @Schlemazel: double good for you! I constantly run into Trumpov apologist uber patriots who have never had a family member serve since WWII or maybe Viet Nam. It shuts them up when a liberal hippie has a kid who was a Marine with 5 combat tours under his belt. Doesn’t compute in their worlds.

  129. 129
    germy says:

    Florida youth voter registration is up 41% since Parkland shooting

  130. 130
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @JAM: I have more Sungolds than my family and I can possibly eat. Any jackals in San Francisco can stop by and get some. Meyer lemons are falling off the tree, too.

  131. 131
    raven says:

    @burnspbesq: Our DI said “don’t go home and try that bullshit back on the block, you’ll get your ass kicked”.

  132. 132
    JPL says:

    @WaterGirl: The mutt dug up a bunnies nest and they all went scampering. Of course, I felt bad for the bunnies, and have kept the said mutt on leash. That is even though I know, they will destroy my garden next year.

  133. 133
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Baud: Yeah, I saw that article too. I don’t know, I found my teeth on edge over it, but mostly I think that reaction was, “Wow, the Atlantic. Any chance they get, they’re going to make Democrats look bad, even when they’re saying good things.”

  134. 134
    JPL says:

    @germy: The Parkland students are going to be registering new voters in my city the thirtieth. Depending on what time, I hope to join them to show my support.

  135. 135

    @OzarkHillbilly: BS is T lite, just as unprepared and just as racist and misogynist and might I add displays authoritarian tendencies.

  136. 136

    Russians definitely had American help with their micro targeting, they knew whom to target, where and how. BS supporters were targeted and were willing vectors in the spread of anti-HRC propaganda.
    I suspect they had more than one experienced political operative, veterans of several elections in the United States, working for them.

  137. 137
    WaterGirl says:

    @JPL: I am chucking because in spite of my DEATH TO BUNNIES! I would have done exactly what you did. Life is a series of tradeoffs.

  138. 138
    Miss Bianca says:


    Russians definitely had American help with their micro targeting, they knew whom to target, where and how. BS supporters were targeted and were willing vectors in the spread of anti-HRC propaganda.
    I suspect they had more than one experienced political operative, veterans of several elections in the United States, working for them.

    Do you mean like…Tad Devine?

    I’ve been saying this over and over again: I think it will eventually come out that Tad Devine and Paul Manafort were still working together for Russian paymasters. Not at Manafort’s trial, perhaps, but someday.

  139. 139
    Baud says:


    Do we know to that she doesn’t still support Assange? She seems to be dealing with some issues.

  140. 140
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @raven: Black Trump supporters exist, but it’s easy to make too much of them. This article cites an AP/NORC poll from February finding 7% support for Trump among African-Americans. So you can find them, but it’s a single-digit thing nationally.

  141. 141
    D58826 says:


    It’s heartbreaking to see a beautiful, fist sized, fully ripe Amana Orange tomato lying on the ground half eaten.

    Least they could do is eat the whole thing. Think of all those starving Chinese bunnies :-)

  142. 142
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: 😊

  143. 143
    opiejeanne says:

    @WaterGirl: This summer our yard is Australia. The little darling lagomorphs run and dance just a few feet away from us, nibbling on the pea vines that have spilled out of one raised bed, eating the corn poppies and the delphiniums and the tops of our potato plants. I’m surprised they don’t get sick from the latter, but they all seem healthy and lively.
    They positively laugh at our cat which is unkind after we’ve kept her from catching them when they were first out of the nest and so tiny.
    But bunnies are so damned cute.

  144. 144
    raven says:

    @Matt McIrvin: I’m telling you what my friend found canvassing here.

  145. 145
    debbie says:


    Do bunnies and squirrels invade raised beds?

  146. 146
    opiejeanne says:

    @rikyrah: I like that twitterer.
    The whole attack on Sharice is something else; she’s well-qualified but she lacks male genitalia and white skin.

    Welder is a white guy who supported Bernie for president.

    I believe Ocasio-Cortez just spoke the quiet part out loud when she proclaimed that they would “flip this seat to red”. What’s she doing messing in the politics of a state half-way across the country when she’d be better served taking care of her own campaign back home. She annoyed the heck out of me when she attacked her primary opponent AFTER he graciously conceded and threw his support to her. I swear, if I voted in that district I’d be sorely tempted to write in Crowley’s name on the ballot.

  147. 147
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @raven: My neighbor’s sister was visiting from NC. When I stopped to chat while walking the dog, my neighbor introduced me. A few minutes into the conversation Trump came up (he’s always lurking around somewhere, isn’t he?) . The sister started going on about how it was about time we put tariffs on those Canadians, falalalala. I must have looked stunned. My neighbor said don’t mind her. She likes Trump. It was the first time I had encountered any person of color who had a good word to say about Trump and had considered it to be an exclusively white person form of madness. That’ll teach me to make assumptions!

  148. 148
    opiejeanne says:

    @geg6: Why do people care what he spends on commercials? And if it’s just that they’re seeing his commercials at all, they’d be looking at a commercial for something in that same slot.
    No, what they’re bellyaching about is a supporter of Democrats doing something, getting people registered. That threatens them.

  149. 149
    raven says:

    @Gelfling 545: I was stunned myself.

  150. 150
    Baud says:

    @Gelfling 545:

    The 27% rule cuts across the races, although perhaps the percentages vary.

  151. 151
    opiejeanne says:

    @debbie: Not as much as our lower ones. Last year we started raising our 10 inch beds another 12 inches but haven’t done all of them. The cleaned out most of the cukes before we put a fence around the lower beds, started in on the cabbages and pole beans. We have some heavy plastic mesh that we wrap around the beds and clip to posts at the corners. We unclip one corner if we need to work in the bed but my hands are so small I sometimes can’t work the big clips we use.

  152. 152
    MomSense says:


    It may be a bit of both. I think the bitching about the impeachment ads may have pushed him to the voter registration investment. Whatever caused it – it’s a good thing.

  153. 153
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @raven: It would probably be effective against Assange, however. Me striking him with my reticule would probably be as well.

  154. 154
    SectionH says:

    @debbie: LOLOLOL- in a word, yes.

    @OzarkHillbilly: The last year we had a garden, the ground squirrels pulled the same crap – take ripe or ripe-ish tomatoes, pull em off the vine, and take a couple of bites out of each one. Eat half a tomato? I wish… yeah, we tried leaving water bowls out for them – useless. It got so bad we bought one of those hav-a-heart traps and set it up. Like clockwork, we started trapping the critters. Took them even farther out in the boonies where there were no houses, and let em go. After doing that a couple of dozen times, the assault slacked off and ceased.

    That option might or might not work for you. Our theory became that since we’d never had the problem before, the g squirrels were from a nearly establishing colony nearer our place than any older colonies, so there were a finite # of the little beasts. You may have a much larger supply of pests. (We had mice all right, but they never seemed interested in the tomatoes.) Anyway, GOOD LUCK.

  155. 155
    MomSense says:


    Cut bars of Irish Spring soap and hang them in mesh bags around your plants.

  156. 156
    opiejeanne says:


    Democrats have to stop allowing Republicans to define the Democratic Party

    I would amend that to non-Democrats. Looking at you, Bernie, and your Little Helpers.

  157. 157
    Aleta says:

    William Gibson @GreatDismal
    Bannon’s using that greasy-ass old waxed cotton jacket to get a Gestapo leather-at-the-podium look without actually going there.

  158. 158
    Kay says:


    Exactly. I love that stuff. The intricacies of power :)

    They asked big city Ohio mayors what they wanted but didn’t get from Kasich and they said “respect and resources”. They didn’t say “abolish ice” or “single payer” or “smash the establishment Democrats”. They want what duly elected and powerful people want- respect and resources. They’re mayors. They are the establishment. IN power. To not include that aspect is just really weird and honestly very much a white person’s view. The mayor isn’t powerful? I beg to differ! :)

  159. 159
    opiejeanne says:

    @Gelfling 545: Insanity and poor political judgement are Equal Opportunity it seems.

  160. 160
    opiejeanne says:

    @debbie: The squirrels aren’t really attacking our vegetables, but they’re already after my apples and the poor things won’t even start being ripe for another month or so. We have one variety that is ripe around the end of July but the rest are much later.

  161. 161

    @stinger: MY DIL cooked 3 kinds of pasta–sauted chicken breast in lemon wine sauce, carbonara, and something in a casserole dish that had cinnamon in it. Home made focaccia. Tiramisu and dense chocolate cake. I felt like I’d participated in some eating contest. Then they made us watch “Tokyo Drift,” which left us totally soporific. Then we hauled home a bunch of leftovers.

    Eat your heart out.

  162. 162
    Kay says:

    I just love how we’ve gone from mainstream denial of Trump/Russia to mainstream discussion of Trump/Russia with no mention of the two years of denial.

    The unredacted [parts of that Carter Page info are amazing. They had a LOT of info on Trump campaign people and they have had it for a very long time.

    Must be nice. To never have to admit an error. Or to just NOT tell people anything and then act as if this stuff is new when it’s finally revealed, piece by piece.

  163. 163
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    I just sent Alain a bunch of dog pics from the Wolfwood Wildlife Rescue Family Fun Day and Dog Show that I volunteered at today. I think we could all do with a palate cleanser.

  164. 164
    Kay says:

    I went to Chicago last week to see my son and daughter in law. They took me to the art institute (I have been before) and I just realized there is a security zone around the antiquities – so I have been setting off this mild alarm by getting too close and never saw the tape on the floor. My son was like “do you not see a connection between YOU and this alarm!”

    I’m not the only one! I was not alone in this. I considered that alarm like background noise. It’s people like me that force them to enclose in glass display cases. I need a lot of guidance :)

  165. 165
    Baud says:

    @Kay: I’m taken aback with the matter-of-fact way the media is now discussing treason though.

  166. 166
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Schlemazel: Front Range of CO.

  167. 167
    Barbara says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Good idea. All the talk about NC in the prior thread made me think of the rescue organization (two women in a double wide) on Knotts Island, NC where I found one of my dogs.

  168. 168
    germy says:

    A 5-year-old stomped into a restaurant in a princess dress, held up her arms and shouted "I'M HERE." I just hired her to be my life coach.
    — Elizabeth Hackett (@LizHackett) January 27, 2017

  169. 169
    JPL says:

    @Kay: lol Nice to know that I’m not the only one that security watches in museums.

  170. 170
    Jay says:

    Over at LGM they are mocking GG over his swallowing, absorbing and reguriting of RT propaganda over Assange for clickbait.

  171. 171
    James E Powell says:


    Democrats have to stop allowing Republicans to define the Democratic Party. They don’t know anything about it.

    The press/media universally use the Republicans’ definition of the Democratic Party. And what’s worse, they use the Republicans’ definition of the Democratic Party from the 1990s.

    Example: Democrats dislike/disrespect the military. In Obama’s first year in office, he gave a speech at West Point concerning Afghanistan. On MSNBC, the supposedly liberal cable network, Chris Matthews stated that this was Obama going into “enemy territory.” I mean, what the fuck was that? Obama’s commander in chief. What the fuck? But it was and still is considered a normal way to talk about any Democrat.

    I could give more examples, but I’m pretty sure everyone here could come up with more. These are filters through which Democrats have to communicate. They have not been successful at removing, altering, or getting the press/media to ignore these.

  172. 172
    B.B.A. says:

    @Baud: The new savvy take is that treason is no big deal, it helps shore up the vote in crucial Waukesha County, and besides, Benghazi emails!

  173. 173
    debbie says:


    I once whacked my forehead on the glass case trying to get a closer look at this at the Metropolitan Museum. It seemed to me that the thunk was loud enough to be heard throughout the museum, but the guard just rolled his eyes. It probably happened pretty frequently.

  174. 174
    zhena gogolia says:


    Oh, yeah, I love that damned thing!

  175. 175
    Dan B says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: The pergola came from Cochin, Kerala (India, far south). The family is from India and found fantastic exporters in Cochin. The pergola is teak. Resorts in Kerala, on the Backwaters, have large structures like this with granite columns and a double layer of terra cotte tiles. Via internet I got the granite columns changed to salvaged teak. And we didn’t use the tiles. They would have required a massive foundation and cross bracing. The sute is a steep hillside with no access for equipment. Needless to say it was “interesting” reassembling the pergola – once in the shop, again on site. It’s been in place for 15 years.

  176. 176
    Dan B says:

    @debbie: Yes, sorta. The dogwood is Cornus kousa ‘Milky Way’, usually called Korean Dogwood, from Korea, China (Jy-nah?), and Japan. The Peony is a single purchased almost 20 years ago, probably a Single Japanese but tge label is long gone. Cat who has a wobbly walk and my partner, a crazy cat lady..

  177. 177
    Dan B says:

    @Gelfling 545: Glad you’re getting rain. We’ve had 3/4 inch of rain since May 1st. It’s been in the 80s and 90s and there’s more forecast! The only things green are because of irrigation, and our native conifers… but only dog can make global warming.

  178. 178
    opiejeanne says:

    @Dan B: My goodness. It’s gorgeous.

    I’m currently trying to decide if I want a giant arch of metal to grow climbing roses on between the north side of the house and the greenhouse/raised beds area. We acquired a pair of extremely aggressive plants, Blushing Lucy, that need something large to climb on.
    I discovered that we own a pipe bender, was probably my dad’s, but I saw some stairwell railings at Second Use in Seattle that would be a quick way to achieve the same thing. Just don’t know how to get them to my place.

  179. 179
    Dan B says:

    @opiejeanne: Wish I could give you a recommendation of a contractor or hauler but I retired last year and most of my contractors went out of business in the recession. I’ll look up one contractor who had a big truck but I believe he moved to Alaska.

  180. 180
    debbie says:

    @Dan B:

    Thanks. I’ve seen both of these in my neighborhood, and I wasn’t sure about trusting Google for identifying them.

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