Late Night Eyes-Cast-Up-to-Heaven Open Thread: Who Among Us?…

… hasn’t publicly speculated about dating their teenage daughter?

For all their valiant attempts to “normalize” his behavior and that of his most racist supporters, Donald Trump remains an enormously unpopular and polarizing figure. So the NYTimes roots around in the Christianist swamps for a new and hopefully more convincing argument from this dude at the ecumenical, conservative and, in some views, neoconservative religious journal” First Things

People I knew from college or had met in New York expressed distaste for Mr. Trump’s behavior. If they were religiously conservative, they stressed his infidelity while also objecting to his insults of women. If they were liberal, they objected to his treatment of women and viewed his infidelity as a sign that his religious supporters were hypocrites. Not a single peer of mine in New York — no matter how conservative or religious — publicly supported Mr. Trump.

In contrast, almost all of the people I know in my hometown in Nebraska proudly supported him. They glossed over his infidelities and stressed that he seemed to be a good father. They were impressed by his “respectful” sons and admired the success of his daughters.

In their book “Red Families v. Blue Families,” Naomi Cahn and June Carbone popularized the idea of “blue” and “red” family models. Blue families prize equality and companionship between spouses while putting a low value on childbearing. Red families tend to be inegalitarian or complementarian, viewing the man as the primary breadwinner and the mother as the primary caregiver. Early marriage and multiple children are typical.

Red families tend toward conservatism, and blue tend toward progressivism, but the models share an upper-class stress on respectability and a strong taboo against out-of-wedlock birth.

A third model can be found among working-class whites, blacks and Hispanics — let’s call it purple. In these families, bonds between mothers and children are prized above those between couples. Unstable relationships are the norm, and fathers quickly end up out of the picture…

Compare members of Mr. Trump’s Evangelical Advisory Board to attendees at a recent conference of Trump skeptics at Wheaton College, the elite Evangelical institution. Mr. Trump’s board is overwhelmingly drawn from the Southern Baptist Convention and various Pentecostal and prosperity gospel churches. Figures at the Wheaton conference were more likely to be from Presbyterian churches, or conservative offshoots of the Episcopal Church.

These denominational differences reflect a class divide. About 35 percent of Episcopalians and 25 percent of Presbyterians have a family income above $100,000. Only 16 percent of Southern Baptists and 10 percent of the pentecostal Assemblies of God can say the same. An Episcopalian is more likely to have an advanced degree than a Southern Baptist is to have a college diploma…

Shorter NYTimes: Trump supporters tend to be undereducated bigots from denominations with a history of misogny and racism, not that there’s anything wrong with that!

As quite a few high-profile people of color have noted, Mr. Schmitz and the NYTimes blandly assume that working-class “blacks and Hispanics” voted for Trump as enthusiastically as Schmitz’s beloved Nebraskan rednecks — an empirically false statement, aka, lie.






35 replies
  1. 1
    Arclite says:

    Just watch this and be happy: Nice try fatty.

  2. 2
  3. 3
    Mnemosyne says:

    A third model can be found among working-class whites, blacks and Hispanics — let’s call it purple. In these families, bonds between mothers and children are prized above those between couples. Unstable relationships are the norm, and fathers quickly end up out of the picture…

    I can’t be the only one who read this graf as “You Black and brown people should love Trump — he’s a cheating wife-beater just like all of you!”

  4. 4
    Ben Cisco says:

    @Mnemosyne: You’re not. It wasn’t nearly as subtle as the writer thought it was.

  5. 5
    Nettoyeur says:

    Column is pseudo intellectual claptrap. The facts are that in the US, births out of wedlock for whites are 29 percent; Hispanics, 53 percent; and blacks, 71 percent. When rich white women have children outside wedlock, it’s by design not accident—they want kids, but not a husband. The rest are mostly teenagers who lack sex education (common problem in redneck states), access to birth control, or both. Trump’s serial marriages and infidelities are at once reminiscent of narcissistic Hollywood/WallSt and Southern redneck male attitudes to women. Guy’s a faithless cad who marries models as trophies, 2 of 3 from countries that were E. European Communist shitholes back in the day (both Czechia and Slovenia doing better in recent years, but Internet order brides are still a thing in E. Europe). Yup, Trump is just like his deplorable voters—except that he inherited millions to start with. There was analysis that showed that he’d be much richer now if he had simply let a competent broker invest his inheritance and lived off the returns. His businesses have produced negative value. He’s an ignorant, not so successful person’s idea of a rich man. Like one of the Sopranos…

  6. 6
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Arclite: I love how he turns around with great surprise when the photog starts to snicker. “Hey! I’m just sitting here cleaning myself.”

  7. 7
    Viva BrisVegas says:

    Family values is when Dad goes off with one of his porn star girlfriends for a good spanking, while wife number 3 sits at home nursing the newborn.

  8. 8
    JPL says:

    @Viva BrisVegas: Defending Trump’s morality is what they do. I do think that Trump could shoot someone on 5th avenue, and they’d praise his marksmanship.

  9. 9
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Viva BrisVegas: You forgot about paying for the abortion.

  10. 10
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @JPL: Nahhh, you can’t defend the non-existent. They’re just trying to convince themselves they aren’t the moral blackholes they always said we were.

  11. 11
  12. 12
    The Ancient Randonneur says:

    I was born in Nebraska and still have relatives there. It’s a great place to be from.

  13. 13
    NotMax says:

    @OzarkHillbilly

    pills featuring Trump’s face

    Never knew ecstasy came in suppository form. Learn sumthin’ every day here.

    ;)

    As it is Indiana, moderately surprising it isn’t Pence’s mug being used.

  14. 14
    SRW1 says:

    If you want to know what normalization of misogyny looks like, it’s characterizing domestic violence as just a *different kind* of family values

    Beating your wife/girl friend and your kids means you care. At least until you can’t take it any more and are forced to abscond.

  15. 15
    Groucho48 says:

    None of the liberal folks I know put a low value on child bearing. Unless they define it as not wanting twelve kids.

  16. 16
    MagdaInBlack says:

    This putz never left his office chair to write this piece of slop.

  17. 17
    satby says:

    All those purple family values folks wish they had stable marriages and lives. They aren’t aspiring to serial kids with different partners and unstable relationships. It’s an outcome of poor education, poor opportunities, and yes, some economic uncertainty also as a result of poor education and opportunities. Don’t think for a moment that they wouldn’t want the same kinds of stability those snooty Episcopalians and Presbyterians have, stupid article author.

  18. 18
    MagdaInBlack says:

    @satby:
    I hadnt quite gotten there, thank you for this point.
    Its as if he believes people aspire to have unstable relationships….value them.

    Like I said : putz. Dumb putz.

  19. 19
    Suburban Mom says:

    @NotMax: Pence is on the pasty white ones.

  20. 20
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Groucho48: Liberals tend to be more K-strategy: have a smaller number of kids (possibly just one) and lavish more attention and resources on them.

    Though, really, I don’t think the overall difference between US liberals and conservatives is large here: “quiverfull” types are not a huge fraction of the population, though of course they have a larger fraction of the children.

  21. 21
    RedDirtGirl says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Exactly! Classic cat!

  22. 22
    sdhays says:

    In case Baud doesn’t get to it: The New York Times is garbage.

  23. 23
    sdhays says:

    @satby: It’s really rather a sight to behold how the author sneers at elites for being so out of touch while the entire piece itself is actually one big sneer at the poor and working class for not “wanting” nice things. He’s pretending to be anti-elitist while also being the epitome of an elitist.

  24. 24
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    In their book “Red Families v. Blue Families,” Naomi Cahn and June Carbone popularized the idea of “blue” and “red” family models. Blue families prize equality and companionship between spouses while putting a low value on childbearing. Red families tend to be inegalitarian or complementarian, viewing the man as the primary breadwinner and the mother as the primary caregiver. Early marriage and multiple children are typical.

    I think someone is over thinking this. Hicks hate city people for being differant, this has gotton worse because of social changes in rural America, Trump makes city people cry.

  25. 25
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Arclite: Classic “I meant to do that” look from kitty after he lands.

  26. 26
    jonas says:

    A third model can be found among working-class whites, blacks and Hispanics — let’s call it purple. In these families, bonds between mothers and children are prized above those between couples. Unstable relationships are the norm, and fathers quickly end up out of the picture…

    *facepalm*

    It’s also called social dysfunction. This isn’t something they *aspire* to — it’s a result of poverty and lack of educational and employment opportunities, especially for women.

  27. 27
    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman) says:

    @NotMax:

    Even us Hoosiers aren’t dumb enough to swallow Pence yet again (polling predicted that he’d have lost re-election in 2016).

  28. 28
    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon says:

    @Groucho48: We tend to place an emphasis on child-REARING, rather than child-BEARING. Quality over quantity, you could say…

  29. 29
    Mom Says I*m Handsome says:

    This Red Family / Blue Family seems eerily familiar — oh yeah, it’s repackaged Bob Altmeyer and George Lakoff.

    Lakoff’s new “FrameLab” podcast is really good. In the first episode he and Gil Duran go through the conservative moral hierarchy that defines how “Red Families” think. It’s one of those head-slap awakenings that’ll alter how you relate to the esteemed gentlepersons across the aisle — unfortunately (at least this was my conclusion) you’ll come away saying, “I now understand why they think the way they do, but I still don’t know how to make them change.”

    That’s why we have the “Don’t Mourn, Organize” tag, I suppose — our path forward is to drag these neanderfucks along with us into the future, where it’s okay to have a society that doesn’t have a permanent underclass to shit on.

  30. 30
    JWL says:

    The Applebee’s influence is discernible. It’s a caliber of political insight that a younger David Brooks might have written for the Times if he hailed from Nebraska.

  31. 31
    JGabriel says:

    JPL:

    Defending Trump’s morality is what they do. I do think that Trump could shoot someone on 5th avenue, and they’d praise his marksmanship.

    “Yeah, okay, he shot someone on Fifth Avenue just to watch him die. But at least he hit his target, unlike those gun-hating libtards!”

  32. 32
    Neldob says:

    And red families have Sinclair radio on a lot and watch Fox info-tainment and have no access to Planned Parenthood. Are those their values or just happenstance, like having lead in your water? Just asking for the next NYT article.

  33. 33
    JGabriel says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    … Trump makes city people cry.

    As a city person, I can assert with certainty that Trump does not make us cry.

    He disgusts and enrages us, and fills us with contempt.

  34. 34
    Original Lee says:

    You have to hand it to the Times: They strive to publish only prime, Grade A bullshit, and frequently succeed.

  35. 35
    Jay Noble says:

    Mostly life-long Nebraskan.

    I have yet to see one analysis address what I’ve obseved 1st hand out here. For the most part, they don’t particularly like Trump but they absolutely HATE!!! with the heat of 10 million suns the Clintons, especially Hillary. They made snide remarks about Obama and let their racism show a bit more, but oh gawd! With Hillary they froth at the mouth, spit and turn red. Yet in the next breath or Facebook Post, they will ask if your’re going to the spagehetti feed for so&so’s cancer fund drive or coming out to the Fair to support the 4H kids. These are not dumb or ignorant people and yet . . . Rush and Fox News did their jobs well. It didn’t matter how horrible the other person was, there was never a chance in hell they were going to vote for Hillary.

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