Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Dance Party!

Spirit lifter from staunch commentor LAMH:

So I’m watching anything else but more political news, and watching some of the MTV Movie/TV Awards…. And this happened:

Chadwick Boseman won for best Hero for Black Panther and he did this:

Chadwick said we should honor real life heroes as well. So he called up James Shaw Jr and gave the award to him and thanked him for his real world heroism!!!

At the same event, Michael B. Jordan also won an award, for playing EriK Killmonger in Black Panther. And said: I’m shocked that I won this award for Best Villain. I thought for sure Roseanne had that in the bag.”

And for a coda, professional vote-suppressor Kris ‘I Too Am Super Racist’ Kobach got told to SIT IN THE DUNCE CORNER, AND FEEL SHAME.

Per the Kansas City Star:

… Judge Julie Robinson also ordered Kobach, who is seeking the Republican nomination for governor, to take more hours of continuing legal education after he was found in contempt and was frequently chided during the trial over missteps.

In an 118-page ruling Monday, Robinson ordered a halt to the state’s requirement that people provide proof of citizenship in order to register to vote. The decision holds the potential to make registration easier as the August and November elections approach.

Robinson’s ruling amounted to a takedown of the law that Kobach had championed and lawmakers approved several years ago. She found that it “disproportionately impacts duly qualified registration applicants, while only nominally preventing noncitizen voter registration.”

“If eligible Kansans’ votes are not counted despite believing they are registered to vote, it erodes confidence in the electoral system,” Robinson wrote.

She ordered Kobach not to enforce the proof of citizenship law and its accompanying regulations…

136 replies
  1. 1
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Love the Judge ordering Kobach back to school. That’s gotta sting more than any fine she could have leveled.

  2. 2
    NobodySpecial says:

    It would be hilarious if he forgets to do it and loses his license, wouldn’t it?

  3. 3
    NotMax says:

    Floriduh man, expanded edition.


    Man who sought control of website name at gunpoint sentenced to jail for 20 years

    The Iowa incident is believed to be the first time domain hijacking has been done by an armed assailant Source</a.

    2) He told his friends his vest was stab-proof and offered to demonstrate. It wasn’t.

  4. 4
    NotMax says:

    The truth is out there.

    Russia’s state-run media channel Russia 24 wants everyone to know that President Donald Trump belongs to Moscow.

    Responding to reports that Trump told world leaders at the G-7 meeting in Canada last week that Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula is Russian because everyone there speaks Russian, the hosts of the Russian version of 60 Minutes victoriously declared that “Crimea is ours, Trump is ours.” Source

  5. 5
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning Everyone 😄😄😄

  6. 6
    rikyrah says:

    Can’t wait for Kay to come on in and give her thoughts on Kobach 😄😄

  7. 7
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @NotMax: They can have him. DEPORT TRUMP.

  8. 8
    rikyrah says:

    Did raven check back in?

  9. 9
    JPL says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Any chance that they’ll take Pence and Ryan also?

  10. 10
  11. 11
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @JPL: I’m not sure we have enough money for that.

  12. 12

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’m sure we can do a “GoFundMe” for it.

  13. 13
  14. 14
    SFAW says:


    Love the Judge ordering Kobach back to school. That’s gotta sting more than any fine she could have leveled.

    That might be true for a normal human. And if Kobach had ANY sense of shame, he might be considered one. However …

  15. 15
    Amir Khalid says:

    Malaysia is crowdfunding to help pay off a trillion ringgit (US$250 billion) national debt incurred on a previous government’s watch. I don’t know if we can manage that or if you guys can manage to deport Trump, but both are certainly worth trying.

  16. 16
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  17. 17
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: I’m 90% sure she opposes him.

  18. 18
    Platonailedit says:

    Other than innate racism & bigotry (which are true) and a butthurt sense of loss of white privilege (which is laughably a blatant lie), what else drives the trumpanzees to support the traitorous turd?

  19. 19
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Quinnipiac Poll — June 14 thur 17 (link)

    Do you support separating migrant children from their parents?


    it’s amazing how the 27% number comes up repeatedly, year after year after year.

  20. 20
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: It’s worth a shot. Maybe we could name it something ambiguous like the “trump Emigration Campaign” and wrangle a fair amount of all that sweet illiterate RWNJ money the GOP grifters are living off of.

  21. 21
  22. 22

    Good morning, Friends, and thanks for the kind wishes about Allen. He would have loved to have been a part of this community.

    So, it’s not true that DHS Secretary Nielsen was looking for a “final solution” to the immigration question, is it? Not yet, anyway…

  23. 23
    Joey Maloney says:

    He told his friends his vest was stab-proof and offered to demonstrate. It wasn’t.

    More astonishingly, it’s not the case that he told his friends to stab him. He picked up a knife and he stabbed himself to death.

    Definitely a Darwin nominee.

  24. 24
  25. 25
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Platonailedit: A universal love of punching down?

  26. 26
    Baud says:


    I’d pay the ransom if DACA were included.

  27. 27
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Mustang Bobby: I’ve got a final solution for her.

  28. 28
    Platonailedit says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Who exactly are these nuttters punching down? They themselves are already at the bottom of the food chain, thanks to their own so called party.

  29. 29

    @OzarkHillbilly: She does look like one of the dancers in the chorus line of “Springtime for Hitler.”

  30. 30
    Davebo says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    I was thinking the same thing. What are the odds?

  31. 31
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Platonailedit: trump, sessions, nielsen, miller, kelley, etc etc ad nauseum are loved by the base because of their innate talent for beating up the weak, the disenfranchised, the Blahs, the Hispanics, and only those poor.

    @Mustang Bobby: She’s already got all her lines memorized and her delivery is pitch perfect.

  32. 32
    danielx says:

    The amazing 27% Crazification Factor. Also known as the Keyes Constant, which is new to me..

  33. 33
    Platonailedit says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: They are like the incurable diseases, aren’t they?

  34. 34
    debbie says:


    Right! I wish more judges did this, and I hope cameras capture him entering the classroom!

  35. 35
    Betty Cracker says:

    @JPL: That one hits close to home!

  36. 36
    debbie says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Me too, if I were even speaking to my family.

  37. 37
    Peale says:

    @Baud: the cost of releasing the children is ending the diversity lottery, but not replacing those numbers with anything. It will also end family reunification as a legal reason for immigration. 60% of permanent residency petitions last year were related to family.

    Unfortunately I think the cost is too high. Its not DACA and releasing child hostages in exchange for the wall.

  38. 38
    danielx says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    It doesn’t matter what he does as long as he pwns the libs.

  39. 39
    JPL says:

    @Betty Cracker: We know where the 27 percent get their news. I didn’t watch the video but mediaite has a clip of Ingraham saying that the children are essentially in summer camp.

  40. 40
    Baud says:

    @Peale: I know. There will be no deal.

  41. 41
    JPL says:

    @Baud: Wasn’t the original deal that Trump agreed to with Chuck and Nancy about DACA and the Wall? Trump then added changes to legal immigration. He must really hate Melania’s parents, since they are applying under family reunification.

  42. 42
  43. 43
    Baud says:

    @JPL: He probably doesn’t want her to have allies against him.

  44. 44
    Matt says:

    @Baud: We don’t negotiate with terrorists.

  45. 45
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @debbie: I hope the cameras catch him sitting in the corner wearing the “DUNCE” cap.

  46. 46
    sdhays says:

    @rikyrah: According to old Jefferson Beauregard, comparisons to Nazi Germany are pretty apt, except for this one detail:

    Well, it’s a real exaggeration, of course. In Nazi Germany, they were keeping the Jews from leaving the country.

    I don’t think that’s entirely accurate, but if that’s the difference that Jeffy Jeff wants to claim, I won’t argue it. I think we can all agree to call Trump and his gang “Evil Nazis (who want to gas people who don’t want to leave).”

    I can’t imagine how an American reacts to the suggestion that a policy he enacted is like what the Nazis did and his first response is “Well, that’s an exaggeration.” Sessions depravity doesn’t surprise me; I knew that this is who he was. But the brazenness is so….

  47. 47
  48. 48
    debbie says:

    Never mind. Already shared.

  49. 49

    @Baud: I was going to shoot today, but I fell in the yard and now I’m sore.

  50. 50
    Baud says:

    @Matt: True. And it’s important not to give away something permanent. But in this case we elected the terrorists to lead the government, so something has to give.

  51. 51
    debbie says:


    It’s bullshit is what it is. That one tiny metric (trying to keep the dispossessed in vs. trying to keep them out) in the face of so much evil. Change his accent and maybe his wide-eyed fawn look, and Sessions could be Goebbels.

  52. 52
    debbie says:


    Has anyone said those specific words? It’s a great retort that should be a talking point.

  53. 53

    @sdhays: It’s not accurate, the original “Final Solution” was to remove the Jewish population from Germany by forcing them to emigrate.

  54. 54
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  56. 56
  57. 57
  58. 58
    sdhays says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah, but if that’s the only quibble, I’d rather just agree with Jefferson and that he’s a total Nazi except for this one detail that he seems to think is significant. The point is he doesn’t dispute the comparison of rounding people up for slaughter.

  59. 59
    Peale says:

    @JPL: yep. And who reneged on that deal? I guess the Democrats could cave and agree in order to get the kids out of cages. But my guess is that Trump will reneg again and add some other condition that attacks naturalization, or the citizenship status of kids born to non-citizen parents. The kids will stay in tent cities regardless. The GOP is not good for its word.

    It’s not that we “don’t negotiate with terrorists”. It’s that we should only negotiate with terrorists who will release the hostages.

  60. 60
  61. 61

    @rikyrah: Thanks, I’m going to get some sleep and hope I feel a bit less sore when I wake up. I really want to get one or two more shoots in before the moon makes it impossible to shoot.

  62. 62
    Brachiator says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    it’s amazing how the 27% number comes up repeatedly, year after year after year.

    Unfortunately, a majority of Republicans support this vile policy.

    Sixty-six percent of voters — including 91 percent of Democrats and 68 percent of independents — told Quinnipiac they opposed the policy. …

    But by a large, 20-point (55 percent to 35 percent) margin, Republicans supported the policy:

    These dopes love Trump and they are not letting go.

  63. 63
    rikyrah says:

    In case you forget..
    This began with Ain’t Shyt Kelly 😠


  64. 64
    Platonailedit says:

    The 10 democrats who voted to confirm the nazi barbie as DHS head should be ashamed. Even bs voted against her, ffs.

  65. 65
  66. 66
    MomSense says:

    I lost it last night. After watching that lying NAZI bitch Nielsen and then news coverage for a few hours I broke down. Couldn’t stop crying. The thing that haunts me is that a lot of these children will never be reunited with their parents. Why is an 8 month old still alone after a month? He doesn’t know his name, his parents name, his address, or any US relatives. His mom is probably deported or so deep in the detention system she can’t get to him.

    These children have been stolen from their parents. We need the goddamned Amber Alert because these children are in danger.

    Trump, Kelly, Sessions, Miller, and Nielsen should all hang for this.

    Now will the media and the people who gave trump’s they are animals comment a pass or a parse wake the fuck up? He was using out in the open Rwandan genocide dehumanization tactics. The trump administration is capable of genicide. They wouldn’t even blink.

    No one should project one ounce of their own empathy into Trump and company. They don’t have a drop of empathy. If we let this atrocity slide, they will escalate.

  67. 67
  68. 68
    Baud says:

    @Brachiator: Since 90% of Republicans support Trump, that’s a pretty good number for us.

  69. 69
    JPL says:

    @MomSense: It would be morally wrong, not to be affected by the actions of this administration. You did good.
    Stay angry

  70. 70

    I hope every Democrat uses that children crying video as the theme music for their ad campaign with the tag line, “I’m [their opponent] and I approved this message.”

    I love the bitter taste of cynicism in the morning.

  71. 71
  72. 72
    Thoughtful David says:

    I don’t think the Dems should yield on this hostage situation, because I don’t think it’s going to last but another day or two. This is blistering every Republican in congress and R governors. See, for example, Ted Cruz. Hell, even the Catholics and some talibangical groups are speaking against it. They’re not going to be able to stand the heat for long.
    And if the policy does go away in a day or two, it will leave Trump outraged and weakened. He’ll do something else stupid and continue to spiral downward.

  73. 73
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Thoughtful David: Agreed. There is never a reason to give in to authoritarian bullies like Trump. Let him wallow in his self-created crisis. I’ve read that Trump wants to shut down the government unless he gets funding for his wall. Good luck with that.

  74. 74
    Platonailedit says:

    Seconded. All who treated his bigotry as a joke or a ratings boost, who dismissed those who warned of autocracy as "alarmists" — you helped sanction this atrocity.

    There are children who lost their parents in part because of you.

    Trump was clear who he was. Complicity kills.

    https://t.co/GyN91WJ0vI— Sarah Kendzior (@sarahkendzior) June 16, 2018

  75. 75
    Percysowner says:

    The Methodists stand up! Church charges brought against Sessions

    More than 600 United Methodist clergy and laity say they are bringing church law charges against U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions, a fellow United Methodist, over a zero tolerance U.S. immigration policy — a policy that includes separating children from parents apprehended for crossing into the U.S. illegally.

    However, an authority on church history and polity said he’s unaware of a complaint against a lay person ever moving past the district level.

    Specifically, the group accuses him of child abuse in reference to separating young children from their parents and holding them in mass incarceration facilities; immorality; racial discrimination and “dissemination of doctrines contrary to the established standards of doctrines” of The United Methodist Church.

    All are categories listed in 2702.3 as chargeable offenses for a professing member of a local church.

    It won’t really do anything, but go them!

  76. 76
    Platonailedit says:

    IBM’s machine argues, pretty convincingly, with humans.


  77. 77
    JPL says:

    @Platonailedit: Thanksgiving should be interesting.

  78. 78
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    I’m sorry to hear you were so affected by this, but I can certainly understand why. These people are monsters. I hope November punishes them and the marches on the 30th put additional pressure on them to at least cease this barbaric policy

  79. 79
    Betty Cracker says:

    Godwin’s Law creator speaks out:

  80. 80
    Thoughtful David says:

    @Patricia Kayden: For the Rs it’s a losing hand, and an untenable one. This is a story that can get through to the low-information voters. They don’t pay attention to tariffs or net neutrality but this is a story that they’ll see and pay attention to. And the Rs can’t have that.
    The Rs need this story to go away, and today. If the Dems can hold out a day or two longer, the policy will be ended, leaving the Dems with a much better hand for the future.

  81. 81
  82. 82
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Thoughtful David: I agree this cruel policy is doing terrible damage to Republican prospects. Here’s an excerpt from the wingnut Washington Examiner on that:

    Senior Republicans on Monday warned President Trump that forcibly separating migrant children from their illegal-immigrant parents was a political loser that could cost the party control of Congress in the midterm elections.

    Trump and top administration officials aren’t backing down, defending the zero tolerance splitting of families at the southern border to close a loophole that has allowed thousands of illegal immigrants to manipulate asylum laws to enter the U.S.

    But top Republicans are decrying the policy as cruel and immoral, with GOP strategists ringing alarm bells about the steep political risks to the party’s standing in November — especially its precarious 24-seat majority — if it isn’t reversed quickly.

    But I’m not sure Trump will reverse it. His racist base loves it, and racist assholes on Fox like Lou Dobbs are urging him to hold firm. We’ll see.

  83. 83
    gvg says:

    how do we get rid of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, AG Sessions? She must be breaking laws with regard to interfering with parental custody and false arrest. When foster care removes a child there has to be a court order and evidence of abuse or other dangers and first choice is always placing with someone known to the child who passes background checks etc. They also get in big legal trouble if they can’t track where the children are. When I got a child I got a copy of the court permission for custody so that I could authorize schools enrollment and medical care. I couldn’t just show up and get doctor care without it for instance. Also the state paid for medical care. These removals without judges and specific names strike me as already illegal even if these power mad nut jobs think they are the law. Plus I am sure they made no provisions for tracking nor legal medical care. I think all of them from the secretary down to the agents have violated laws and need to be prosecuted for it. Many states won’t, but some of them should. Once one state does, the general public will realize it should happen and start putting pressure on their Governors and legislators. If one red state starts charging, the agents on the ground will stop obeying illegal orders.

    I am not a lawyer, but I got training that taught me to expect certain procedures. this is just not OK from the get go. It’s not just new laws we need. We already have laws and they aren’t being followed.

  84. 84
    The Ancient Randonneur says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: It’s been almost ten years since they could celebrate war crimes. They really needed these human rights violations to keep hope alive. It’s hard out here for an Atavist.

  85. 85
    SFAW says:


    But by a large, 20-point (55 percent to 35 percent) margin, Republicans supported the policy:

    But yesterday it was a “slightly larger” 46 to 32. Lying media at it again!!!!!1!!2!!OMFG

  86. 86
    The Ancient Randonneur says:

    @Betty Cracker: And here we are ten months after that tweet and it’s even more appropriate now. T and his gang are taking the iterative approach to reestablishing the Reich.

  87. 87
    rikyrah says:

    They’re not showing the girls and babies for a reason. They’re perpetuating the myth of the boys who will grow up to be “violent gang members.”

    Everything they do is racist. Everything they do is evil.

    — Celia (@_celia_bedelia_) June 18, 2018

  88. 88
    rikyrah says:


    Ted Lieu
    Maxine Waters

    Dear @SecNielsen: I don’t give a shit if you apologize. We just need you to reverse your policy of ripping kids away from parents.

    Also, how did you go from saying such a policy doesn’t exist to now saying you won’t apologize for it? Why all the lies from Homeland Security? https://t.co/jv6YFAKGNU

    — Ted Lieu (@tedlieu) June 18, 2018

  89. 89
    stinger says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Oh, how lovely — thank you.

  90. 90
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    rikyrah says:


    These children have been stolen from their parents. We need the goddamned Amber Alert because these children are in danger.

    I have said that I have been in rage since November 2016. I never got past the rage stage…no matter what he did, it was just rage.
    Until the children. The destruction of these children has sent me to a very dark place of constant crying and depression.. But, now, I’ve climbed back to the rage.

    They will never be forgiven.
    None of them.

  92. 92
    Tazj says:

    @gvg: You would think that they have to be breaking laws(IANAL). This policy of family separation is making the US government an active participant in child abuse and child theft. Separating families and then siblings, ordering staff not to physically comfort children is abusive. Do they even have enough staff to watch the younger kids? The ratios for staffing in schools and hospitals have to be different than for older children and adults. Now we find out that there isn’t any system in place to quickly reunite families. The parents are being deported quickly and they’re under the DOJ, and the kids are under the HHS and they might be in another state across the country.

  93. 93
    MomSense says:


    I’m fighting not to surrender to despair. We have to keep fighting. Every day we do something to stop these NAZI monsters.

    Stay angry.

  94. 94
    rikyrah says:

    (THREAD) Donald Trump and Secretary Nielsen are LYING about how our justice system works to justify tearing impoverished kids from their parents at the border. In this thread, a longtime criminal attorney explains how the system REALLY works. I hope you’ll read and retweet this. pic.twitter.com/HpKinNiGpT

    — Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) June 18, 2018

  95. 95
    rikyrah says:

    In a media universe consumed by the outrage of children torn from their parents, the FORBES Magazine reporting of the flat-out scandalous financial deeds of Commerce Sec. Ross is going to slip under the radar. It shouldn’t. https://t.co/RF0DBZR72N

    — Jeff Greenfield (@greenfield64) June 18, 2018

  96. 96

    @Peale: @Baud: Yes, that’s the plan. Genocide. Right now the focus is those who enter and/or are undocumented, if they succeed they will turn their attention to people inside the states. Immigrants, naturalized citizens, children of the foreign born we are all fair game.
    If he gets away with this he will get worse. This is the one area where he has been able to deliver some of his rancid campaign promises.
    The problem is not Kelly or Miller or the Nielsen woman. They are all horrible, since like attracts like. But the problem is the man on the top and the millions that voted for him knowing what he was.

  97. 97
    rikyrah says:

    It’s already their fault, Eugene.

    If you vote GOP in November, you support snatching children from their parents and confining them in cages. It won’t just be Trump’s fault, it will be yours.

    — Eugene Robinson (@Eugene_Robinson) June 18, 2018

  98. 98

    @MomSense: I feel profound sadness. This is suicide in slow motion. Voting for T was like giving an arsonist matches to burn your house down. We need to get back into the house and save it. Its the only house we have.

  99. 99
    bemused says:

    Our Revolution, Duluth MN events to counter Trump visit tomorrow.
    11 am press conference City Hall steps
    3-7 pm Bayfront Park, Up with Summer, Down with Trump, family picnic and banner making
    6-6:30 pm Power Plaza, Welcome Immigrants and Refuges, Not Trump
    2 pm at DECC, Ghost Walk-out, 10 min into 45’s speech, we walk out
    4:30 pm at Civic Center, We Are One Rally and March. Rally 5 pm, March begins at 5:30 and will go to Blue Wave and Soulstice events.

    Wish we could attend at least one of these events but it is just not possible for us to make it.

  100. 100

    It’s like we all have PTSD from constant terrible things happening around us.

    I guess we’re not to the P part yet though. I only hope we eventually make it there.

  101. 101
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    When you lose Dreher…

    Jacobs goes on to say that it all turns on the meaning of the word “reasonable.”

    How can it ever be reasonable to tear a child from his mother’s arms for the crime of having crossed the US-Mexico border illegally? Detain these families and deport them back home — fine. But do not violate the family bond. Those children are not to blame for their parents’ decision. Why must they suffer?

    This is a vicious and inhumane policy, and it’s repulsive that Christians in this administration are defending it on biblical grounds. The Trump White House, Fox News, and conservative talk radio are not any kind of valid Christian magisterium.

  102. 102
    Jager says:

    @schrodingers_cat: He already had the matches,, voting for him was handing him a 5 gallon can of gasoline.

  103. 103

    @Jager: True and the Republican party invited him in and gave him the plans of the house.

  104. 104
    rikyrah says:

    Trump accelerates rate of taking migrant kids from parents

    Rachel Maddow reports on the growing outrage over the Donald Trump administration’s policy of forcibly removing children from their parents when they seek asylum in The United States, and notes that the rate at which children are being removed and placed in camps increased from an average of 43 last month to 67 as of this month.

  105. 105
    rikyrah says:

    New audio gives voice to migrant kids in U.S. detention center

    Ginger Thompson, senior reporter for ProPublica, talks with Rachel Maddow about newly published audio from inside a migrant child detention center, which Thompson received from a civil rights attorney who obtained it from a client.

  106. 106
    rikyrah says:

    Trump family separation policy becomes focus of national outrage

    Rep. Beto O’Rourke talks with Rachel Maddow about a Father’s Day protest march he organized at the site of Trump’s “tent city” camp for migrant kids in Tornillo, Texas, and the plight of migrant families being persecuted by the Trump administration.

  107. 107
    rikyrah says:

    How an immigrant’s concern for kids drew a nation’s eyes to Flint

    Rachel Maddow tells the story of how first-generation immigrant Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha persisted in trying to raise the alarm about increasing levels of lead in the blood of children in Flint, Michigan until the crisis was finally taken seriously.

  108. 108
    Nelle says:

    I wondered why we didn’t take to the streets in 2000 and all the times since. And I will take to the streets this Sunday and June 30 in groups. But I’ve just finished my sign and I’m going out today by myself. I wonder if we start popping up on various busy corners at rush hours and lunch time we can pierce the helplessness. One side says “My dad -child refugee from violent war.” The other side says “Family separation =/ (does not equal sign) Family values.”

  109. 109
    bemused says:

    Rick Wilson tweeted that when trump flips on his child abuse policy “and he will”, everyone who defended this are going to be “left with holding the crap end of the stick”.
    I wish I could be so confident he will.

  110. 110
    rikyrah says:

    What Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen considers ‘offensive’
    06/19/18 08:40 AM
    By Steve Benen


    But perhaps the most important exchange from the briefing was this back and forth between a reporter and the cabinet secretary:

    Q: Are you intending for this to play out as it is playing out? Are you intending for parents to be separated from children? Are you intending to send a message?

    NIELSEN: I find that offensive. No. Because why would I ever create a policy that purposely does that?

    Q: Perhaps as a deterrence?

    NIELSEN: No.

    And this gets to one of the more glaring political problems facing this White House: Trump and his team can’t seem to keep their stories straight.

    On the one hand, the Homeland Security secretary finds it “offensive” to even be asked whether the administration is trying to deter border crossings by separating children from their parents. On the other hand, Nielsen’s colleagues in the administration are on record saying the exact opposite.

    White House Chief of Staff John Kelly, who was also Nielsen’s predecessor at DHS, said last year he was considering – not because of a law, but as part of a deliberate choice – separating children from their families “in order to deter” illegal border crossings. Last month, Kelly, a close Nielsen ally, told NPR, “[A] big name of the game is deterrence. [Family separation] could be a tough deterrent – would be a tough deterrent.”

    Attorney General Jeff Sessions, meanwhile, an ardent proponent of the family-separation policy, has made similar comments.

    What we’re left with is a Homeland Security secretary who was asked about her own administration’s rationale, and who rejected the question as “offensive.”

    If Nielsen is offended by the Trump White House’s perspective, maybe she’s in the wrong job?

  111. 111
    Kay says:


    You would think that they have to be breaking laws(IANAL).

    They don’t (yet) understand the import of their actions- Kelly and Miller don’t know anything about child welfare issues, which are 95% state law and handled at the state level.

    The basic idea is this- if you take a child from their legal custodian, parent, relative, other state, whoever, for any reason, that child is now YOURS. The child’s welfare is wholly your responsibility. The federal government took them from their “natural” guardians (their parents and families) so the federal government is now responsible for their well-being and safety.

    The federal government isn’t set up to care for thousands of children. There’s no mechanism and process for them to do this.

    It is fundamentally different to hold the children with their parents, because then the children remain the responsibility of their parents. By taking the children they have now stepped into the shoes of the parents.

    All they saw was the chance for punishment. They didn’t see the DUTY that comes with it. It’s absolute. Those kids belong to HHS and they belong to HHS until the duty of care is transferred back to their parents or to another government entity (a state foster care system).

    You can tell Sessions doesn’t get it. He was speaking last night of their parents- what their parents did or didn’t do. None of that matters the moment you take them from their parents. The question then becomes “who is the custodian while the children are in the US?” and the answer is “the Trump Administration”. It has to be. If they’re not in their parents custody and care and they’re not in the custody and care of a county or state – then they’re in the custody and care of the federal government. They own every single thing that happens to each of them now.

  112. 112
    TS (the original) says:

    Not much discussion from trump about the stock market lately. DOW is down c. 400 pts so far today

  113. 113
    TS (the original) says:


    I wish I could be so confident he will.

    This one HAS to be the bridge too far – otherwise the country is Germany 1933

  114. 114
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @danielx: Which the creator intended as a joke but seems to hold remarkably steady, among Americans in any case.

  115. 115
    Kay says:


    The Fox anchors don’t get it either, partly because there’s so much idiocy around the differences in state and federal law.

    They are comparing this to when a STATE or COUNTY deals with the children of incarcerated parents. States and counties have child welfare systems. They have mechanisms to place children with family members (first choice) or in foster care (second choice). They have whole state agencies and legal schemes devoted to this- a whole section of the court system.

    You don’t remove children from the care of their custodian without replacing the custodian! The shoes have to be filled! Someone is responsible for them. That “someone” is now the Trump Administration. Had they left the children with their parents (wherever their parents are) their parents would still be responsible for them.

  116. 116

    @Kay: Someone in that briefing should have asked Nielsen what happens to the children now that they are in your custody. What comes next?

  117. 117
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @JPL: Mike Lukovich is a genius

  118. 118
    rikyrah says:


    They have mechanisms to place children with family members (first choice) or in foster care


    You DO KNOW that part of this is that they WILL NOT place these children WITH FAMILY MEMBERS ALREADY IN THE UNITED STATES!

    You do know that, right?

  119. 119
    Kay says:


    SHE seemed to get it a little- that’s why she kept saying they are being cared for. They better be. She took full responsibility for them the moment she took them from their parents, and she retains it until she transfers it to someone else.

    What position would the federal government rather be in? Housing a mother and her 8 month where the mother cares for the 8 month old OR taking the 8 month old from the mother where the federal government is now wholly responsible for the 8 month old? It’s not just cruel- it’s idiotic. It’s a no brainer. They should do back flips to avoid the responsibility of custody. Instead they eagerly created a situation where they are the custodians of children.

  120. 120
  121. 121
    rikyrah says:


    Not just The KKKeebler Elf, but their enablers ,like that Bytch Laura Igraham, calling it ‘ summer camp.’

    Uh huh
    Uh huh

  122. 122

    @rikyrah: Can ACLU or some other organization sue on the behalf of these children?

  123. 123
    Steve in the ATL says:


    I lost it last night. After watching that lying NAZI bitch Nielsen and then news coverage for a few hours I broke down.

    Yesterday was rough. I eased the pain with a Whole Foods chocolate silk pie, a nice claret, and “Everything Sucks!” on Netflix.

    I highly recommend all three.

  124. 124
    Kay says:


    Probably because they’re afraid that they haven’t vetted the family members and probably won’t even be able to verify that they are family members, because the federal government isn’t set up to be a child welfare agency.

    It’s as simple as that. They’re not a state or a county. They don’t do this work. They eagerly and stupidly jumped into it, so now they’re stuck with it and they’ll do it poorly or not at all, but that was VOLUNTARY- a policy choice they made.

    That no one told any of them this is amazing. No one said “gosh, if we get rid of the parents then we’re the custodians, right?”

    Bush and Obama knew it! That’s why they left the children in the care and custody of their parents.

  125. 125
    bemused says:

    @TS (the original):

    You’re right although most everyone gets that except Trump, Sessions, Nielsen, Miller, etc. I think it will come to how hot it gets for trump and the WH and he has to come up with a flip he thinks doesn’t make him look “weak” and doesn’t alienate his insane base. His moonies will probably believe any excuse that he comes up with that makes them think he is strong against immigrants.

  126. 126
    bemused says:


    Great post, Kay!
    Trump and WH are kidnappers holding the kids for ransom and above all, to feed their punishment fetish.

  127. 127
    Elizabelle says:


    What position would the federal government rather be in? Housing a mother and her 8 month where the mother cares for the 8 month old OR taking the 8 month old from the mother where the federal government is now wholly responsible for the 8 month old? It’s not just cruel- it’s idiotic. It’s a no brainer. They should do back flips to avoid the responsibility of custody. Instead they eagerly created a situation where they are the custodians of children.

    Exactly. Kay, I appreciate your comments on the role of the guardian. They’re a great frame from which to have the discussion.

    Trump’s policy is (1) his and (2) indefensible. Even to Sarah Huckabee Sanders.

  128. 128
    rikyrah says:



    Probably because they’re afraid that they haven’t vetted the family members and probably won’t even be able to verify that they are family members, because the federal government isn’t set up to be a child welfare agency.

    They can’t do DNA tests?

  129. 129
    Kay says:


    I mean, they CAN, but “relative placement” with state child welfare is a process. It involves a criminal background check and a home visit. It involves notice and an opportunity to be heard and judicial oversight. They don’t have any of that infrastructure. They just have thousands of children they recklessly seized and no process or scheme to deal with them.

    The PARENTS can place with family members by consent with no state process, but they sent these parents away, so that option is off the table. Leaving the parents as guardians means the state doesn’t have to step into their shoes. That’s probably why no other adminstration did this- you break that family, you bought it.

  130. 130
    Kay says:


    The person who should have understood the different roles of the state and federal government is Sessions. He’s not a far Right activist (incompetent) like Miller and Kelly has no experience in any kind of state legal process at all.

    Sessions is the AG. This is his job. He took custody of those kids. They’re now his.

  131. 131
    Kay says:


    Say they place with a relative and that relative is a felon or a child abuser or insane and they didn’t do the state vetting process.

    Now the federal government is responsible for placing with a felon or child abuser. The parents didn’t place there- Donald Trump did.

  132. 132
    Tazj says:

    @Kay: Thank you for explaining the government’s role in child welfare.

  133. 133
    Kay says:


    It’s amusing if you follow the trajectory of “conservatism” because it’s a MASSIVE over reach by the federal government.

    They are DOING what they have fear-mongered on for 50 years. The State is seizing children with no process. They’re holding them in federal camps. It is the essence of what they supposedly abhor. They don’t have police power to seize children!

    But we all knew it was bullshit, so whatever. There is no “conservatism”. It’s a lie.

  134. 134
    Domestic short hair tabby (fka vheidi) says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: wow, that’s stunning! well done!

  135. 135
    Tokyokie says:

    @Mustang Bobby:

    She does look like one of the dancers in the chorus line of “Springtime for Hitler.”

    The one with the pretzel headdress or the one wearing the beer stein?

  136. 136
    Mart says:


    an average of 43 last month to 67 as of this month.

    Children per day.

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