Tornillo, TX March: Report from the Field

I am privileged to front page O. Felix Culpa’s trip to the Tornillo march this weekend. I’ll let her take it from here:

From O. Felix Culpa:

Trawling the internet over Saturday morning coffee, I chanced upon an announcement for a march on the new tent city in Tornillo, Texas, scheduled for the next day. I read the info to my wife and we said simultaneously, “Let’s go.” We abandoned our weekend gardening plans, packed a few things, dropped the dog off with a friend, and drove 300-plus miles southwest to El Paso, where we spent the night. The drive was pretty and uneventful, except for the plague of insects committing suicide on our windshield near Fort Bliss.

Early next morning we headed to the march’s starting point at the Tornillo-Guadalupe Toll Plaza on the US-Mexico border. It’s in a rural area, marked by orderly pecan groves interspersed with verdant alfalfa. But the land is brown and desolate where the fields end and the internment camp begins. Although set up for 400 children, capacity might be expanded to 4,000 according to the government.

Many other cars were turning off the highway ahead of us as we approached. Good! we thought. These people must be going to the march too and we can follow them. It seemed unlikely that so many people would be heading to this remote place on a Sunday morning for any other reason, and we were right.

There were already hundreds of cars parked along the roads when we arrived and more kept streaming in. All told, about 2,000 people came – more protestors than residents in Tornillo – extraordinary numbers for a Father’s Day event in an out-of-the-way location announced late Friday. Most were from El Paso, but folks hailed from all over Texas and as far away as Salt Lake City, Denver, and Santa Fe (us).

The crowd of families with young children, youth, and seniors – brown, black, and white – huddled for shade under the toll plaza cover, waiting for the march to start. The sun was already fierce at 9:30 a.m. – on the coolest day forecast for the week. Three guards stood at the entrance to the camp, watching. We couldn’t see the tents, which were somewhere behind the barbed wire, walls, and outbuildings. The organizers informed us they had not been able to secure permission to enter, so we marched out a short way, then back through the toll plaza to a gathering place as close to the camp as possible for the rally.

Beto O’Rourke was highly visible throughout, surrounded by supporters, cameras, and broadcast microphones. He’s tall, handsome, and an effective speaker. He notably avoided directly attacking Trump and the GOP (this is Texas, after all, and he’s running for Senator), but was clear about the immorality of the family separation policy: “This is inhumane. This is cruel. This is torture to take a child from that mother, from that father, who literally risked all, including their lives, to bring them to safety, fleeing horrific violence.” All true. Beto added, “People say this is not who we are. But it is who we are. We are doing this and we must stop it.” Also true.

A small commotion arose just behind me and I turned to see Joseph Kennedy III, carrot-haired with that pink-and-white Irish complexion and distinctive Kennedy good looks, working his way through the crowd to the speaker’s box. He too denounced the anti-immigrant policies: “We recognize that universal truth that humanity does not come with citizenship or with a green card,” and concluded by noting our American immigrant family names are “Jimenez…Martinez…O’Rourke [applause]…and Kennedy,. My family is Kennedy” [more applause].

Kennedy sped away in the requisite black SUV to seek entry into the camp. I don’t know if he got in. The crowd dispersed shortly afterward, some heading to Father’s Day brunches, while others, like us, drove home. I’m glad we went and we have more work to do to rescue these children and restore them to their families.

Me again. There are more photos below the fold.

Click on any image to see full size.  I tried to do a slideshow, but it didn’t want to format for me.  :(






266 replies
  1. 1
  2. 2
    Baud says:

    O. Felix Culpa is Latin for Balloon Juice hero.

  3. 3

    I’m glad O’Rourke is telling everybody that this is who we are and that we need to do something about it. I’m sick to death of people telling us, “This is not who we are!” It is who we are. I wish it weren’t, but it is. We are what we do. That’s all there is to it, we are what we do. If we’re doing this, then we are this. If we want to be better, we have to stop.

  4. 4
    HeleninEire says:

    Is there an immigration lawyer here who can tell me why the Aunt of the 6 year old can’t have her?. I am assuming the Aunt is waiting for her asylum hearing and is for now legally here.

    ETA Oh wrong thread. Meant to post this in the previous thread, but I guess it’s relevant here too.

  5. 5
  6. 6
    JPL says:

    Thank you so much for the pictures, and I wish I was there. Some happened to Cruz to make him back off his tough stance, and the march probably had some effect.

  7. 7

    And I apologize because I know this is probably loading slowly – but I thought the photos were important to see.

  8. 8
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    Everybody needs to read this post over at LGM. It is by an immigration lawyer. Basically we have been catching EVERYONE coming across the border since 2010. There is no border crisis. So the current policy is straight up KKK.

  9. 9
    Bill Arnold says:

    Rude Pundit has a few good pieces on the child separation policy; apologies if previously linked.

    A #MAGA Guide to Understanding Why Separating Children from Their Parents at the Border Is Bad

    You look at your MAGA wife and your MAGA kids and you say, “We gotta leave. We gotta get out of here.”
    “We got no papers,” MAGA wife says. “We ain’t even got passports because you said only cucks and libtards like to travel to other countries.”

    The Cold Political Calculus of Taking Away the Children of Migrants

    This is the cold political calculus of Trump advisor and man most likely to own a suit made of human skin, Stephen Miller. It’s beyond “annoy the libtards and make the snowflakes cry.” We’re now into “let’s get good footage for campaign ads” territory. You can imagine it now: Evil music, low-pitch voice saying, “Nancy Pelosi and the crooked Democrat Party want to let MS-13 animals into the country” over footage of, say, a fight at a detention center or maybe Rep. Juan Vargas or other members of Congress getting led away by cops as the voice continues, “Tell Nancy Pelosi that you stand with Americans, not illegal animals.” Or some such shit. That’s probably too subtle. More likely it’ll just be Trump braying something incoherent like a particularly brain-damaged jackass.

  10. 10
    Mandalay says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    I’m sick to death of people telling us, “This is not who we are!” It is who we are.

    Amen. That pompous and self-contradictory drivel really needs to die a speedy death.

  11. 11
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    Good for Beto. I have a couple of friends who went to this since it’s a pretty close drive to our town. I was in Northern New Mexico all week doing my NP clinicals then working my two weekend days, so I had to root from afar. Today one of my co-workers at the El Paso Processing Center.

    And good for you for representing, Felix O. Culpa!!!

  12. 12
    JPL says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Trump is a monster. It’s up to us to engage with people and change their mind.

  13. 13
    Teddys Person says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Thanks for the link.

  14. 14
    Elizabelle says:

    Yea O. Felix and wife. Turning out for protests is very important. You made a difference.

  15. 15
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    it’s a pretty close drive to our town.

    I don’t know your location, but I know that Las Cruces was represented at the march.

  16. 16
    guachi says:

    Thank you for the link. It’s amazing how much information can be packed into a post when the person knows what he’s talking about.

  17. 17
    feebog says:

    @JPL:

    Some happened to Cruz to make him back off his tough stance, and the march probably had some effect.

    What happened is he is looking at his internal poll numbers and it left a big brown stain in his shorts. Beto is getting all the attention and is on the right side of the argument. Cruz is, well still an asshole.

  18. 18
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Baud: [Blushes] Just doin’ my job, good sir.

  19. 19
    JPL says:

    Exclusive: US officials likely lost track of nearly 6,000 unaccompanied migrant kids

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/new.....30099.html

    @feebog: good.. I meant something.

  20. 20
    LAO says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: Thanks for attending and sharing it with us — I need this today.

  21. 21
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: That’s us! Yaaay! Lot of people here I know are pissed as shit about this.

  22. 22
    Mandalay says:

    @JPL: Cruz is suddenly being Mr. Nice Guy because his automatic re-election is not looking so automatic after all….

    Sen. Ted Cruz leads Democrat Beto O’Rourke 49 to 43 percent in a new poll conducted for one of O’Rourke’s Democratic allies…

    The most recent independent poll of the Texas Senate race, from Quinnipiac University in May, found Cruz leading O’Rourke 50 percent to 39 percent…

    Cruz’s internal polling, conducted in Dec. 12-14 2017, showed him leading O’Rourke 52-34 percent.

    That gap is tightening like a noose around Cruz’s neck.

    !!! Beto for Senate !!!

  23. 23
  24. 24
    trollhattan says:

    @feebog:
    My guess is Frank Luntz is frantically triple-billing for round-the-clock focus groups that are giving some pretty interesting feedback about how the administration and Republicans are currently viewed. Cruz may hate what he must do, but do it to keep his office he shall. He’s Ted Cruz, after all.

  25. 25
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    The NYT spoke to Stephen Miller on the record with audio and they spiked it because the White House “were not comfortable using the audio…when they found out his voice was going to be on a podcast they were not happy about it. So they asked us not to use it.”

    @sarahkendzior

    Stephen Miller designed the plan to snatch migrant children from their parents. The NYT now won’t run his on the record statements because it makes him “uncomfortable”.

    It’s more important to NYT to placate white supremacists than to speak the truth about the abuse of children.

  26. 26
    cain says:

    @feebog:
    When he gets kicked out.. that’s when a clariion call of alarm is going to sound throughout the GOP. Losing Texas will fuck the GOP completely. There will be no more EC wins from here on in. If Florida tumbles as well, we will have a lock on the presidency.

    If Democrats get both houses, their VERY FIRST BILL should be voter registration with an included vote by mail. It will be the only way to ensure that we also control the racists in the southern states and appalachia. We won’t let Republicans come back from this. If we can, we force a split into liberal and conservative. Let people like Feinstein and Machin join the new conservative party.

    ETA: The point I’m making here is that we need bold new ways of doing things now. We need to get rid of the people who are on the advising circuit and find explore new ideas. I think the Democratic party has been listening to right of center advisors. (eg Clinton third way) and we need to embrace liberalism hard and fast.

  27. 27
    Mary G says:

    Thank you so much for going and taking such great pictures, O. Felix. I am always happy to see homemade signs out of yardsticks and other repurposed materials; it means the people holding them really care. My teenage housemate the rebel and his friend have been working for me to earn enough to pay the open container ticket he got. I have big clean-out-the-garage and bookcases plans, but don’t really feel like doing them myself! Yesterday we planted hydroponic bare root strawberries. Cross your fingers that some of them take because they were sad specimens so late in the season.

    I’m going to have them make signs with me and go to the big march next week. His family is from Guatemala and I told him that Jeff Sessions and Trump want to make the school-to-prison pipeline a superhighway and lock him up for the rest of his natural life and he should not be cooperating so much.

  28. 28
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Mandalay:
    I don’t know. A majority of people are against this. If you believe the Trump regime was installed with the help of gerrymandering and Russia, then this doesn’t reflect the will of the American people. That doesn’t mean we still don’t have to stop it.

  29. 29
    Baud says:

    @cain: You’re stuck in 2004. It’s not helpful.

  30. 30
    cain says:

    @JPL:
    Is this also during the Obama presidency? Because that’s some bad shit if also happened on his watch. Given that al it takes is one child lost for Trump to blame the entire thing on Obama, the messaging will be fast and furious from the right.

  31. 31
    Baud says:

    @cain: It doesn’t even take on child for that to happen.

  32. 32
    Nelle says:

    @cain: It’s my impression (and my daughter in Phoenix does a lot of border reporting) that many unaccompanied minors were released to relatives and then went “underground” as they didn’t see a future in complying with Immigration and getting deported. I’d be glad to hear facts and not just impressions.

  33. 33
    cain says:

    @Baud:

    @cain: You’re stuck in 2004. It’s not helpful.

    Fair enough.. it jus seems that we don’t talk about liberalism enough. I just feel like Dems fidget too much.

  34. 34
    Mike J says:

    @cain: Those “lost children” were mostly given to family members who were in the US. They had no obligation to keep the government updated on on everything that happened with their children after they were released from federal custody.

  35. 35
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
    What bugs me is Americans, some of them here on Balloon Juice (you know who you are), saying things like, “Trump is not my president. I didn’t vote for him.” It doesn’t work that way, people. You voted for Hillary, but he won it in the Electoral College, and it is he who sits in the office of the President. You get to fight him every day on everything until he isn’t POTUS any more, but you don’t get to disavow him.

  36. 36
    Shell says:

    Cruz is, well still an asshole.

    Some things ARE eternal.

  37. 37
    cain says:

    @Baud:

    @cain: It doesn’t even take on child for that to happen.

    I hear that. We have all kinds of false equivalence here. It’s all about whataboutism.

  38. 38
    JPL says:

    @LAO: A few comments above, I posted a link where McClatchy is now saying that they lost track of close to 6,000. Some of those are probably in hiding with relatives, but it is worrisome.

  39. 39
    TenguPhule says:

    Trump’s threat to impose tariffs on almost every Chinese product that crosses the border is driven by a belief that China has more to lose from a trade war than the United States, a top White House trade adviser said on Tuesday. It’s a gamble that has put markets on edge and prompted increasing concern among American companies that depend on access to the world’s second-largest economy.

    Peter Navarro, a White House trade adviser, said on Tuesday morning that the United States had given China numerous opportunities to negotiate and change policies that have cost Americans millions of jobs, and the Trump administration was now prepared to impose tariffs on $450 billion of Chinese goods in order to force Beijing to bend.

    “Trump has given China every chance to change its aggressive behavior,” Mr. Navarro said in a call with reporters. “China does have much more to lose than we do,” he added, saying that a trade clash would affect China much more than the United States, given China exported nearly four times the value of goods to the United States last year than the United States sent back.

    But the White House’s approach has spooked companies, investors and markets, which are increasingly worried that the United States has no strategy to resolve what is becoming an intractable and economically damaging stalemate. While the United States had been in talks with the Chinese to resolve the trade dispute, those discussions have produced little agreement and there are no additional official talks scheduled, according to administration officials.

    Via FTFNYT.

    Shit is getting even more real.

  40. 40
    cain says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    I always refer to him as “my president”, and I say it with as much vitriol as I can muster. My president is a vile ephitet now. Because I have to own it to remind me that he represents me to the world.

  41. 41
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    you don’t get to disavow him.

    Yes and no. He is (spit!) our president. And I disavow him by fighting him and his evil administration every day.

  42. 42
    TenguPhule says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    You get to fight him every day on everything until he isn’t POTUS any more, but you don’t get to disavow him.

    Watch us. We are going to retroactively disappear him from every part of American government.

  43. 43
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    You get to fight him every day on everything until he isn’t POTUS any more, but you don’t get to disavow him.

    Nonsense. I do both

  44. 44
    JPL says:

    @Nelle: Thanks.

  45. 45
    Sab says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: Goku: Trying to call our Gov (Kasich) to ask what he is doing to protect the children of alleged immigrants arrested in Ohio (like those 114 artested at one plant last week.)

    Kasich is all over the news, but none of his contact phone numbers seem to work. Or they are overwhelmed.

    Ohioans need to let him know we are aware and watching. Whatever the feds do, the kids are a state and local responsibility. Kasich needs to know that we know that.

    If anyone has a good number for contact, please post.

  46. 46

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: I don’t expect any better from Nazi Times.

  47. 47
    LAO says:

    @JPL: I saw that report — If I remember correctly, it was mostly children that were released into the custody of family members that failed to keep in contact with the federal government — NOT THAT THAT’S GOOD. I appreciate that the Trump Administration has decided the fix to this problem by locking the children up and not releasing them to relatives. This really isn’t going to end well.

    ETA: Ah, new report — I see. Great. Where’s the gin.

  48. 48
    JPL says:

    @TenguPhule: If he goes down, as I hope he will, FOX will identify him as a dem.
    In fact it could be a plot by the dems to destroy the republican party.

  49. 49

    O Felix, thank you for doing this.

  50. 50

    @Amir Khalid: As a citizen one swears an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States not to kiss the garment of whoever is in the WH. So if we think that he is not performing his constitutional duties we can and should disavow him and work to unseat him politically. And that’s exactly what many of us are doing.

  51. 51
    The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion says:

    @Amir Khalid: Funny, they told us the same thing about King George III. I’m a U.S. citizen. I’ll repudiate and disavow any damned authority figures I choose.
    (I understand your point, just feel compelled to say “Fuck that noise!”)

  52. 52
    ruemara says:

    @JPL: I wish I could predict lottery numbers so well.

    @cain: The very first bill should be a truth & reconciliation bill that also roots out the past administration’s appointees due to electoral malfeasance. The next bill should establish automatic voter registration & vote by mail rules & regulations.

  53. 53
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Sab:

    Or they are overwhelmed.

    Probably this. Someone on another thread posted that congressional phone lines are ringing off the hook like the did during healthcare farce. I was planning on calling Portman’s office soon. Haven’t tried Kasich yet. He’s on the news because he wants to run in 2020.

  54. 54
    Elizabelle says:

    @Nelle: I think that’s the case too. More reporting would be helpful, but vast numbers of completely “lost” children never sounded plausible to me.

  55. 55
    Sab says:

    @Amir Khalid: Amir Khalid: I agree with you wholeheartedly. Trump is an abominatipn, but he is our duly elected president. Our system is a mess, voting registries might have been hacked, but he was elected under our flawed system.

    If we don’t like it we need to fix it.

  56. 56
    But her emails!!! says:

    @Mike J:

    Those “lost children” were mostly given to family members who were in the US. They had no obligation to keep the government updated on on everything that happened with their children after they were released from federal custody.

    More importantly, we probably don’t want them to keep tabs on those children after they are united with family. What’s important is they end up with actual family.

  57. 57
    trollhattan says:

    @cain:
    I don’t know just how phenomenally bad a candidate Paul Sadler was, but oh-so-telegenic Ted Cruz whooped him by 16 points. Beno seems to have his shit together but reversing that margin to a D win is a tall mountain to climb in a state with no actual mountains.

  58. 58
    HeleninEire says:

    I can’t remember the last time I felt like this.
    Sandy Hook, maybe. I feel helpless and useless and I WILL NOT listen to the recording of those babies crying or that 6 year old who has a FUCKING clue but no one will help her. I swear I want to get on a plane and fly back and do… what?

    So what I have is money, not lots but enough to give something up. Here you go ACLU.

    I AM MORTIFIED by my country.

  59. 59
    Mandalay says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: “this doesn’t reflect the will of the American people” is very different to “this is not who we are”.

    You frequently see “this is not who we are” churned out as a response to some egregious racist or homophobic attack, and yet is blindingly obvious that a good chunk of the population is racist and homophobic. The phrase is pompous, meaningless drivel.

    And so it goes with the forced separation of migrant children from their parents. Nobody can credibly claim that “this is not who we are” when a majority of Republicans support that policy.

  60. 60
    glory b says:

    @Nelle: Yeah, they had a pretty detailed “explainer” about that on npr, Latino USA. They said that many were conflating two different issues, a lot of those kids aren’t in danger, but their families eventually figured that continuing cooperation with the authorities might not be advisable.

    Not saying this is ideal, just that it might not be as fraught a situation as some of us think.

  61. 61
    What what? says:

    Meanwhile, here in NE FL, Rep. John Rutherford, who has an almost perfect Trump voting score, is going to make a statement, as soon as he finishes reviewing the Cornyn, Cruz, and Feinstein proposals to end separating families at the border. Or so I hear from his Jacksonville office. Not quite a sign of the Apocalypse, but getting there….

  62. 62
    zhena gogolia says:

    Wow, great post. The RFK aura in those Kennedy pictures is making me tear up.

  63. 63
    HeleninEire says:

    @Amir Khalid: Yes. This. The only caveat I have is that many of us did try. I volunteered for Hillary’s campaign for a year before I left the USA. I failed.

  64. 64

    @zhena gogolia: Actually its Beto that reminds me of RFK than the Kennedy himself. I hope that he can unseat Ted Cruz.

  65. 65
    Citizen Alan says:

    @cain:

    Who is this person I’ve never seen before who has shown up to spout Wilmer why Curry all over the place?

  66. 66
    Mary G says:

    The New Yorker is doing a lot of good reporting on this. Today there is the story of Ana Rivera from Honduras, who is terrified of being deported without her 6-year-old son.

    “Some of these women know where their kids are, some don’t,” Rivas told me. “All of them handle the grief differently. Ana is especially traumatized. She’s pregnant and detained. And she’s just miserable without her child.” Because Rivera had already agreed to voluntary departure, there was little that Rivas could do to help her legally. But she decided to pressure Rivera’s deportation officer at ice to hold off on deporting her until she could be reunited with her child. “There’s no set policy for how to do this,” Rivas said. “It depends on who the individual deportation officer is and how willing he or she is to coördinate with a case worker at O.R.R.”

    Fortunately, Rivera’s deportation officer seemed receptive. (While ice granted me access to the facility to interview Rivera, it declined to make her deportation officer available to speak with me.) According to Rivera, Jairo left Chicago last week and was now in an O.R.R. facility near El Paso. She excitedly showed me the phone number of his new case manager—it had an El Paso area code. Knowing that her son was close by lifted her spirits, even if she couldn’t see him. But each call with him was taxing. “I don’t really know anything about him. I mean, I just know what they tell me,” she said. “My son says to me, ‘Mom, come here and take me home. I don’t like this!’ ” Rivera repeats what her deportation officer has said to her: “Be patient.”

    When I left the ice facility, late on Monday afternoon, Rivera seemed to hover between expectancy and gloom. Her eyes darted as she talked. “Why can’t they just put me on a plane with my son?” she said. “That’s all I want. I want them to deport us right away. I want to get out of here fast.” She added, “But I’ve told them, ‘If you take me to the airport and my son isn’t there, you’ll be killing me.’ ”

    ETA: The thought that ICE doesn’t know where the children were taken is horrendous. The women are forced to just cold call and call until they find them. And the fact that it depends on the deportation officer’s mood whether or not they are sent home together is just beyond words. Honestly, if she hadn’t had help from another mother she would not have known what was happening with him. And if they deported her, but not him, just how is she supposed to get him back? Will they put him alone on a plane to Honduras, not knowing which city, but just picking one, or keep him here in foster care until he’s eighteen? I just want to scream all the time now.

  67. 67
    MazeDancer says:

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Gigantic props and enormous thanks to you and Mrs. Culpa for marching!

    The photographs are outstanding.

  68. 68
    Citizen Alan says:

    @cain:

    That’s because the Bernie humpers have succeeded where the conservatives have failed, in making liberalism a dirty word even to liberals.

  69. 69
    germy says:

    It’s time for Secretary Nielsen to resign. The government should be keeping families together, not tearing them apart. Add your name to demand her resignation.
    — Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) June 18, 2018

  70. 70
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Mandalay:
    A majority of Republicans (that still self-identify as Rs). Not a majority of the public. Not even a majority of voters. It is not who we are. It’s true these things are being done in our names, but it is not who we are. That is why we must stop it.

  71. 71
    Mandalay says:

    @Sab:

    Kasich is all over the news, but none of his contact phone numbers seem to work.

    Kasich is shamelessly using the border crisis for fundraising.

    He’s a vile disgusting scumbag masquerading as a human being.

  72. 72

    @Mandalay: I speak for myself alone, I don’t purport to speak for all of America or mankind or womankind. Who is this “we” how do you know the will of all. Its presumptuous.

  73. 73
    TenguPhule says:

    @JPL:

    If he goes down, as I hope he will, FOX will identify him as a dem.
    In fact it could be a plot by the dems to destroy the republican party.

    Ideally Trump will live just long enough to watch FOX news burn first.

  74. 74
    JPL says:

    @What what?: That might be who Rick Wilson was tweeting about.

  75. 75

    @Citizen Alan: I thought the word of choice for BSers is “progressive”

  76. 76
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mandalay:

    He’s a vile disgusting scumbag masquerading as a human being.

    Stop insulting honest scumbags.

  77. 77
    The Moar You Know says:

    What bugs me is Americans, some of them here on Balloon Juice (you know who you are), saying things like, “Trump is not my president. I didn’t vote for him.” It doesn’t work that way, people. You voted for Hillary, but he won it in the Electoral College, and it is he who sits in the office of the President. You get to fight him every day on everything until he isn’t POTUS any more, but you don’t get to disavow him.

    @Amir Khalid: What do you call a German citizen who between 1938 through 1945 fought Hitler and the Nazis every way they could short of leaving the country or getting executed?

    A fucking Nazi.

    History doesn’t give us an out, folks. Neither will the histories yet to be written.

    Is there an immigration lawyer here who can tell me why the Aunt of the 6 year old can’t have her?. I am assuming the Aunt is waiting for her asylum hearing and is for now legally here.

    @HeleninEire: Not a lawyer but heard some Border Patrol asshole on the radio yesterday saying that they’re using this kid as bait and allowed her to be recorded specifically because the aunt is on the list to get deported as well. These people are beyond evil.

  78. 78
    jl says:

    The good people of this country are on the good side of this issue. No excuse for Democrats, or anyone, to not do something, anything to end the hostage taking.
    The Trumpsters (and their camp followers, which includes Ryan and McConnell) are in a mess because they are bald face lying in order to take hostages in order to force a very unpopular policy on the country. We can’t lose simply because the other side is willing to yell their lies louder and drown everyone else out.

    @TheToddSchulte
    OVERLOOK YESTERDAY – NEW POLLING:
    ONLY 17% support cutting LEGAL immigration, something that BOTH House Republicans bills up for potential votes this week do.
    https://twitter.com/TheToddSchulte/status/1009086960470773760

    found via @joshtpm on twitter.

  79. 79
    Baud says:

    @The Moar You Know: Not all Germans were Nazis. And even Nazis like Schindler are venerated and not condemned.

  80. 80
    Yarrow says:

    @Amir Khalid: Thank you.

  81. 81
    rikyrah says:

    Thank you for the on the ground report.

  82. 82
    Spanky says:

    One United Methodist clergyman and two laymen from Western Pennsylvania signed onto a letter this week filing formal church law charges against U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions over his zero-tolerance immigration policy.

    The Rev. James Ritchie of Monroeville, Brian Kleber of Greensburg and Murray Bickel of Butler joined more than 600 laity and clergy from United Methodist churches across the country in signing the complaint against Mr. Sessions, which was sent to his pastor at his Alabama church on Monday and could result in his expulsion — or, at least, a talking-to from church officials.

    The charges, pursuant to the church’s Book of Discipline, include child abuse and immorality and racial discrimination, stemming from the attorney general’s immigration policy that has led to the separation of migrant children and their parents at the southern border. They also accuse Mr. Sessions of improperly using a verse from Romans 13 to justify the policy.

    An empty gesture? It seems we’re in an initial period of confusion where institutions are trying to get their bearings on a way forward.

  83. 83
    But her emails!!! says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    What do you call a German citizen who between 1938 through 1945 fought Hitler and the Nazis every way they could short of leaving the country or getting executed?

    A fucking Nazi.

    History doesn’t give us an out, folks.

    That is bullshit and you know it.

  84. 84
    Baud says:

    @germy:

    Not sure why Pramila Jayapal isn’t getting more attention.

  85. 85

    @Baud: But unless we endlessly self flagellate we are irredeemably evil or something.

  86. 86
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @The Moar You Know:
    What if somebody was a small child? What if they were homeless?

  87. 87
    bluefish says:

    Thank you!

  88. 88
    rikyrah says:

    @cain:

    If Florida tumbles as well, we will have a lock on the presidency.

    THE most important vote in Florida this November 2018, is the referendum that will RESTORE VOTING RIGHTS TO EX-FELONS.

    Get THAT to pass, and Florida changes IMMEDIATELY..

  89. 89
    Sab says:

    @Mandalay: As an Ohioan I know that. I just wish we could call him on it by calling him. If these (our Ohio) kids come out okay I might someday consider voting for him (harhar). If they don’t, I want him to own it, after he has been all over the news claiming to worry about them. Their parents have lived in Ohio and paid lots of Ohio taxes. Their kids are entitled to Ohio govt protection.

  90. 90
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I think Comment # 3 is essentially right. These things are being done by our government in our names and we can’t escape that. On the other hand, pointing the finger at ourselves in the mirror and yelling J’accuse isn’t going to make things better. We need to change who we are by changing the people in our government.

  91. 91
    jl says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    ” But unless we endlessly self flagellate we are irredeemably evil or something. ”

    But we all need to do something. Show up to demonstration or a hearing, contribute, contact your Congress critters, persuade someone on the fence into get involved, something to help.

    Edit: and one of my favorites, when you see or hear the media mess up a story, is to contact them and complain politely (or not so politely if they have developed a bad habit) and offer the accurate facts.

  92. 92
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Spanky:

    Doesn’t sound empty to me.

  93. 93
    Mary G says:

    Another GOP’s internal polls must be horrendous, because this is a first:

    NEW: GOP Rep. Mike Coffman says he's reached out to Sen. Feinstein, who has proposed legislation addressing family separations at the border."If that means introducing her bill in the House, I'd be honored to stand with her." https://t.co/uMKgU95alj pic.twitter.com/dPnFur44EE— ABC News Politics (@ABCPolitics) June 19, 2018

  94. 94
    bluefish says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Let’s hope that audio gets leaked. Off to give the NYTs some, ah, strenuous advice! Incredible! Thanks for posting that.

  95. 95
    Mary G says:

    Also, too, the kids will win:

    González (@Emma4Change) will attend the vigil in the backyard of @SteveKingIA, one of the country's most fervent supporters of gun rights. https://t.co/TPYg7AAZ1a— Des Moines Register (@DMRegister) June 19, 2018

  96. 96
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Baud:

    I think all that’s at stake is that people are feeling that the phrase “This isn’t who we are” has become like “Thank you for your service” or “Thoughts and prayers” — a piece of empty pap that makes people feel better without making them feel they have to do something.

  97. 97
    rikyrah says:

    @Mary G:

    The thought that ICE doesn’t know where the children were taken is horrendous.

    Horrendous doesn’t even begin to describe it.

  98. 98
    gvg says:

    @Amir Khalid: Piling on here, but I certainly do disavow him and fight him. Any representative of our government can be disavowed. I hope we disavow by impeaching AND actually removing him from office and send him to prison, not just vote him out. I think that removal would be a pretty emphatic disavowal.
    We will still have responsibility for cleaning up his mess and his friends. I am not saying our system didn’t elect him or that if we were as nice as I had thought, he wouldn’t have been close enough to get helped over the winners line. I do feel less responsibility for him than I think his actual voters have though.

    Let me describe an alternate history. Someone as bad as Trump hid it pretty carefully and won. They got in office and did bad things. People and Congress got mad and removed him/her. That also would be a disavowal. We get to do that. It’s not the same as pretending nobody in this country is a dangerous bigot, and it was all hacked election or something.

    I am also feeling cautious about too much sense of responsibility. I am afraid that is why we are still in Iraq and Afghanistan. We broke it, it’s our fault….but I don’t see how staying helps at this point …but experts say worse ISIS will take over if we just leave and yet we are propping up what appears to be other thugs. it may not relate to fixing our own country but I worry.

  99. 99
    efgoldman says:

    @What what?:

    Not quite a sign of the Apocalypse, but getting there….

    Not unless he (and other big talk RWNJs) actually sign on to one of the bills.

  100. 100
    Baud says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    The thing is, the phrase “this is who we are” has the same significance to me. It certainly doesn’t provide action items for people to undertake. My own recommendation is to shun the debate about who we are completely. Let future generations tackle that question.

  101. 101
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Baud: Amen!! The Resistance is alive and kicking.

  102. 102
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I think all that’s at stake is that people are feeling that the phrase “This isn’t who we are” has become like “Thank you for your service” or “Thoughts and prayers” — a piece of empty pap that makes people feel better without making them feel they have to do something.

    I understand the strong desire to disassociate oneself from the government’s evil policies through this statement and agree that it has become empty pap. It also ignores our country’s long history of tearing families apart: through slavery, native American forced marches and boarding schools, and Japanese internment camps. It is historical fact and part, although not the whole, of who we are.

    ETA: By resisting, we are not allowing the darker aspects of our collective past and present to define us.

  103. 103
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Amir Khalid: Why don’t we get to disavow him? I refuse to claim him because I reject his bigotry, bullying, incompetence and fascist tendencies. He’s not my President.

  104. 104
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @zhena gogolia:
    Perhaps a compromise is in order.

    This is who we are now. But we don’t have to stay this way. Let’s change it.

  105. 105
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Baud:

    Well, I do feel that the Trump regime has opened my eyes to the extent of racism, greed, and stupidity in this country that I was kind of whistling my way past after two terms of Obama. I thought if we could elect Obama twice we couldn’t be all that bad. But we are (“we” meaning too way many of us for my comfort).

  106. 106
    Waratah says:

    Those photos look like the entrance to private prisons I have seen.
    Thank you O. Felix Culpa for going and thank you Tamara for posting this.

  107. 107
    Mandalay says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    It’s more important to NYT to placate white supremacists than to speak the truth about the abuse of children.

    More accurately (but no better), it’s more important to the NYT to placate Trump so that it continues to have access to unnamed sources in the Administration.

    They could have just said “fuck it!” and published the audio of Miller instead of being an ongoing lapdog for Trump, but apparently that was a bridge too far.

  108. 108
  109. 109
    jl says:

    @Baud: Good advice. Anyone tempted to get caught up in trying to play History would do more good and help their mood by, instead, taking the time to do something constructive, whatever they can. Send a few $, make an encouraging call to any official who is doing the right thing, a warning call to a politician who is hiding out, sending a correction to a BS story by local or national media, put a demonstration, or local hearing in your schedule and go. Something.

    Edit: sign up for a voter registration drive.

  110. 110
    Sab says:

    @HeleninEire: Ireland is your country now. You emigrated. Own it.

  111. 111
    Spanky says:

    @zhena gogolia: Depends on how seriously Jeffy Beau takes his religion. (I don’t have high hopes for that one.)

  112. 112
    Yarrow says:

    @JPL: He said it was a Senator.

  113. 113
    scav says:

    Might also be good to recognize the distinction between responsibility in being actively at fault and originating the deeds done and responsible to do something about the deeds bing done. I’d say we definitely have that latter responsibility (and there are a variety of ways to step up to it).

  114. 114
    Suffragettecity says:

    Listening to the tape of those children last night was gut wrenching. This morning when the fvcking moron spoke at NFIB was horrifying. A business audience cheering his bigoted rhetoric was so frightening and beyond anything I’ve seen or heard so far.

  115. 115
    Roger Moore says:

    @Mandalay:

    More accurately (but no better), it’s more important to the NYT to placate Trump so that it continues to have access to unnamed sources in the Administration.

    They’ve confused the mechanism (access) with the goal (reporting). It’s a common mistake, and one of the ways people fatally compromise their principles. You see the same thing with politicians who become so concerned about getting re-elected that they forget what they were trying to accomplish by being elected.

  116. 116
    jl says:

    @scav: November is very important. If people too busy or strapped now to do enough to sooth their conscience, can always start planning for November. Everything helps. even if it is sorting papers in the backroom of local GOTV office a few months from now.

  117. 117
    Mary G says:

    Trying to find the actual alleged DHS tweet or a screenshot, but no luck so far. Maybe this isn’t true, but if it is, reeks:

    So hear this:DHS as asking for 1-2 days to provide pictures of girls in detention at the border. They said they need to get some resources down there to take them and the process takes rime.that is the whole tweet.— ALT- Immigration 🛂 (@ALT_uscis) June 19, 2018

    @rikyrah: I am unable to find adequate enough words. Godwin has come out and said it’s OK to use Hitler and Nazis on this.

  118. 118
    Manxome Bromide says:

    @Amir Khalid: I’ll acknowledge Trump as my President when he acknowledges me and my neighbors as Americans. Until then, our local fights against him are fights to assert our status. In winning that we’ll bear our share of the responsibility.

    And I’m fully aware that this means the 6,000 missing children become our unsolvable problem and responsibility basically the instant we flip Congress. We’ll have to do what we can.

  119. 119
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    If Trump is not your President, then who is? Obama’s out of there. Hillary didn’t get in.

  120. 120
    eric says:

    @Mary G: lord knows there are no cell phones within 100 miles……

  121. 121
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @zhena gogolia: @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷:

    This is who we are now. But we don’t have to stay this way. Let’s change it.

    I’ll sign onto that!

    Me too! Well put.

  122. 122

    Who we are is a country divided and polarized. Slightly less than half of us make our political decisions by hate, especially racism. That half is needlessly cruel for pleasure, and has even convinced itself that cruelty is morality. They are activated, frenzied by their bigotry, and because they see politics as an existential war, they’ve rigged every cheat they possibly can. Now given power, they’re showing the world just what sadistic fucks they are. That is one half. The other is liberal, wants policies based on kindness and making sure everyone gets enough. This slightly more than half is not nearly as energized, not nearly as passionate, because if white power ends this half doesn’t care. It’s not the end of the world. It looks like this half is waking up to the realization that this is a war, but we’ll have to see.

    We as a nation are both of those halves, wildly polarized, and especially the split that makes our government swing more and more violently in either direction.

  123. 123

    @Roger Moore: Whatever their motivation they are aiding and abetting T. They did it during the campaign, this a continuation.

  124. 124
    Peale says:

    @Mary G: Yeah. I can understand that. You know how hard it is to find a camera these days? People don’t carry cameras with them everywhere they go any longer, like they did in 1997 when everyone had an instamatic with a flash cube. Cameras need to be sent from the central camera warehouse these days.

  125. 125
    What what? says:

    @efgoldman: Agree. He impresses me as a do-nothing, and even more a don’t-rock-the-boat type, which is why this seems to me like a quasi-sign of the Apocalypse.

  126. 126
    raven says:

    Lil Bit update. Surgery was done this morning and preliminary report is good. She on IV and kept cool and calm and may come home tomorrow. I was on the road today and they were supposed to do in in the late pm but we got the call@ 10:30. Here’s hoping.

  127. 127
    Leto says:

    Sorry if this has already been posted, I haven’t really had a chance to read BJ too much today: U.S. Plans to Withdraw From U.N. Human Rights Council Today

    This just goes hand-in-hand with what’s happening at the boarder.

  128. 128
    HeleninEire says:

    @Sab: Fuck you troll. I still pay American taxes. And I will for the rest of my life.

    And I have family and friends in America that I love.

    Also, too did I say FUCK YOU TROLL

  129. 129
    Baud says:

    @raven: Good news.

  130. 130
    Starfish says:

    @Baud: Focusing on the good Nazis takes the focus away from the victims and does not let the persecuted write their own stories. Even with this event, look at the white men leading it. You are telling me that we had no one else to help? They couldn’t find any Latino leaders in all of Texas?

  131. 131
    Mary G says:

    @raven: Yay! Hope her recovery is full and fast. She should be a lot more comfortable being able to breathe.

  132. 132
    rikyrah says:

    @raven:

    Thanks for checking in. Sending positive thoughts :)

  133. 133
    Mandalay says:

    @Mary G:

    DHS as asking for 1-2 days to provide pictures of girls in detention at the border.

    And Florida Senator Bill Nelson was told by DHS that he would need to give “two weeks notice” to be able to enter a “facility” in Florida.

    This 1984/Kafka shit is coming at us at an incredible pace now.

  134. 134
    Hoodie says:

    Chamber of Commerce and Business Roundtable out with statements. They probably were already pissed at him about the tariffs, this is an opportunity to shit on him and look like good guys. The chamber’s statement is actually pretty strong.

  135. 135
    eclare says:

    @raven: Great news!

  136. 136
    dexwood says:

    @O. Felix Culpa:
    Well done New Mexican. Thanks for going.
    Your mention of boarding schools for Native Americans hits home. While this old white guy was raised in Baltimore, I have been a member of a Native family over 40 years. My father in law will be 90 next month. He is healthy, active, sharp, and strong. My mother in law just turned 89, but her geriatric slide into ill-health is well on its way. Both of these fantastic individuals were removed from their families and villages as young children and taken to boarding schools where they were severely punished for speaking their native languages, where they were Christianized. I’ve heard their stories. I’ve seen the looks on their faces as they tell them and the sense of loss and longing seems as real to them now as it was for them so many decades ago. Now, when I read these stories of children ripped from their parents, I imagine their faces years from now as they tell their stories. This is who we are now, who we have been in the past. We can fight this, however, and become who we’d like to be.

  137. 137
    trollhattan says:

    @Spanky:
    That Beauregard isn’t Southern Baptist is the most surprising element of the day to me.

  138. 138
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    Your comment makes me wonder if there are any recent foreign analyses on the GOP. The rest of the world is seeing for the first time (yes, even the Bush years) how fucking crazy and depraved they are.

  139. 139
    jl says:

    @efgoldman:
    ” Not unless he (and other big talk RWNJs) actually sign on to one of the bills. ”
    The House bills contain a lot of BS on legal immigration that 80 percent of the country opposes.
    Need to press any GOPer on what they are voting for and why. Default assumption should be that they are promising to vote for dishonest junk.
    Ryan is evil and is part of the plan to use the hostages to pass unpopular and damaging legislation. Don’t let these skunks off the hook too easily. They should be asked to explain exactly what they are voting for (all of it) and why.

  140. 140
    eric says:

    @trollhattan: Satan has no formal denominational affiliation

  141. 141
    Baud says:

    After their lunch on Tuesday, the leader of the Senate Republicans walked out to reporters and said something remarkable for this political moment: They don’t agree with President Trump’s policy of separating families at the border, and his entire caucus supports a plan to end the practice.

    “I support, and all of the members of the Republican conference support, a plan to keep families together while their immigration status is determined,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said.

    Obviously not trustworthy until they produce something tangible that Dems can agree to.

    ETA: WaPo

  142. 142
    Elizabelle says:

    @raven: Be well, Lil Bit. Recover fast.

  143. 143
    HeleninEire says:

    @raven: YAY. I think I have asked for this pic before. Please give us a link to the pic on the day Bodhi showed up at the Bakery. He sat down right beside Lil Bit and said “Yes I am a good boy please take me home. I am a puppy bit still I can behave”

  144. 144
    JMG says:

    There must be a list of members of the National Federation of Independent Businesses. This list should be circulated widely for the purposes of boycotts and picketing.

  145. 145

    @Baud: There are several R bills which provide for indefinite detention of entire families. In return for putting several categories of legal immigration on the block. I don’t trust the likes of Ted Cruz and Goodlatte.

  146. 146
    rikyrah says:

    @Baud:

    They can muthaphuckin’ sign onto Feinstein’s bill. Put IT on the floor. Period.

  147. 147
    jl says:

    @Baud: ” Obviously not trustworthy until they produce something tangible that Dems can agree to. ”
    I agree that is very important. They are taking these hostages to get a big ransom.
    If they come out and say they are going to vote for a bill that contains a lot of garbage to end the hostage taking, then they are just part of the plot and the con, IMHO.
    Don’t let these con people off too easily. They need to vote for acceptable bipartisan bills. With emphasis on both ‘acceptable’ and ‘bipartisan’.

    @rikyrah: Damn straight, you betcha.

  148. 148
    cain says:

    @ruemara:

    @cain: The very first bill should be a truth & reconciliation bill that also roots out the past administration’s appointees due to electoral malfeasance. The next bill should establish automatic voter registration & vote by mail rules & regulations.

    yes, that’s a good idea. Geting rid of those bomb throwers is a very good idea. Especially if we can prove that these people were put in there to weaken the institutions.

  149. 149
    Mandalay says:

    @Baud:

    “I support, and all of the members of the Republican conference support, a plan to keep families together while their immigration status is determined,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said.

    This means he supports proposed legislation that addresses the issue but is also riddled with poison pills, thus allowing him to blame Democrats for kids being separated from their parents when it doesn’t pass.

  150. 150
    cain says:

    @trollhattan:

    I don’t know just how phenomenally bad a candidate Paul Sadler was, but oh-so-telegenic Ted Cruz whooped him by 16 points. Beno seems to have his shit together but reversing that margin to a D win is a tall mountain to climb in a state with no actual mountains.

    I can only have faith that we find some way to be able to take over that state. The demographics are on our side.

  151. 151
    trollhattan says:

    Arizona Republic columnist feels some love following her column challenging separating child and parents. An amuse bouche.

    Here’s Heidi, who thinks it’s important to make the distinction that these children are “ILLEGAL” and thus, apparently not worthy of much consideration.

    “Your article was again biased and disgusting.

    “One of your comments was ‘separate innocent babies from their immigrant parents’. WOW Laurie this is absolutely ludicrous. These are not just immigrants they are ILLEGAL. Oh my, you just happen to omit that one word ILLEGAL.

    “By the way, it was the Obama administration who put the children in cage-like surroundings.”

  152. 152
    Teddys Person says:

    @JMG: Not a list but here’s some information from SourceWatch

  153. 153
    cain says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    @Amir Khalid: What do you call a German citizen who between 1938 through 1945 fought Hitler and the Nazis every way they could short of leaving the country or getting executed?

    One of my german friends, pretty much said the same thing. It was a black and white issue for him.

  154. 154
    Spanky says:

    @raven: Awesome!

  155. 155
    JoeyJoeJoe Junior Shabadoo says:

    @cain: Paul Sadler was probably one of the better candidates that Dems could have gotten. He was consistently rated as one of the top ten legislators by Texas Monthly. I don’t think anyone could have beaten Cruz that year

  156. 156
    JPL says:

    Nicolle Wallace is talking about the phrase “this is now who we are.” Jennifer Palmieri said no, because the majority hate this policy. She then went on to say that since we have no pictures of the girls facilities, something is terribly wrong.

  157. 157

    @Amir Khalid: If he won via collusion, and/or potential vote tampering or voter registration tampering then he wasn’t legitimately elected. So he sure as fudge isn’t MY president. Regardless of whether you agree, he will NEVER be given the title by me.

  158. 158
    cain says:

    @JoeyJoeJoe Junior Shabadoo:

    @cain: Paul Sadler was probably one of the better candidates that Dems could have gotten. He was consistently rated as one of the top ten legislators by Texas Monthly. I don’t think anyone could have beaten Cruz that year

    Let’s hope that we can boot him out this time.

  159. 159
    Kelly says:

    I spent Friday afternoon playing in a creek with our grandchildren after school let out for the summer. 11,9,6,4 and 1 year old. The 9 year old grandson is staying with us for a few days. The beginning of the summer rotation of grandkids thru our home in the woods where two river meet.

    The trauma to the parents and children in clutches of our government is so real to me. I watch the older kids care for the younger ones and they do it well. For children. With parents and grandparents around to help. In a cage with strangers for weeks? No end in sight? They would do their best but they are small beings with much growing left to do.

  160. 160
    Elizabelle says:

    @Ms. D. Ranged in AZ: You beat me to it.

    Trump was illegitimately elected. I do not believe his vote totals.

    Trump is not my president. I hope that he does not serve out his full term.

    We fucking deserve better, and actually voted for it.

  161. 161
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @JPL:

    @Karoli

    This is why they do not show girls or small children, only boys. They want to send the subliminal message that every child they’re ripping away is really a violent gang member-in-waiting.

  162. 162
    Roger Moore says:

    @Hoodie:

    Chamber of Commerce and Business Roundtable out with statements. They probably were already pissed at him about the tariffs, this is an opportunity to shit on him and look like good guys. The chamber’s statement is actually pretty strong.

    Immigration has long been an area that cuts across party lines. The business wing of the Republican Party likes immigration just fine, TYVM; they really want immigrant labor to do things Americans are unwilling to do, or at least unwilling to do at the price they’re willing to pay.

  163. 163
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud:

    “I support, and all of the members of the Republican conference support, a plan to keep families together while their immigration status is determined,”

    This would be the family gulag plan. Instead of just the children in cages, the WHOLE FUCKING FAMILY gets to suffer equally.

    Fuck that.

    Mors omnes Republican.

  164. 164
    Aleta says:

    Thanks Tamara. ☘️

    💖Thank you O. Felix Culpa + OFC spouse.💖

  165. 165
    Aleta says:

    @Kelly: “In a cage with strangers”
    Strangers yelling at them if they play too loudly or cross some line.

  166. 166
    JMG says:

    4th of July right around the corner. Many politicians like to march in parades, attend picnics and such. Republican pols should be met with the appropriate response. Actually, the appropriate responses, hitting them with balloons filled with urine, would get folks in trouble. Just boo the shit out of them.

  167. 167
    TenguPhule says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    If Trump is not your President, then who is?

    We have no president at the moment. What we do have is a Republican usurper in the white house.

    And every single one of the GOP in office needs to be put to the sword.

  168. 168
    Aleta says:

    @raven: Fantastic.

  169. 169
    efgoldman says:

    @Spanky:

    An empty gesture?

    Yes and no.
    Yes because the church has no power to do anything concrete (can they excommunicate him? Would he care? How many divisions does the Pope have?
    No because it is very important for large institutions – churches and secular – to go on record doing what they can in opposition.

    ETA: It helped that so many clergy marched and demonstrated in the early 60s.

  170. 170

    @TenguPhule:
    @Amir Khalid: I agree with Tengu. We have no legitimately elected President. We have a traitor in the WH and the GOP is aiding and abetting him.

  171. 171
    Kelly says:

    @Aleta: Or hug their frightened sibling.

  172. 172
    misterpuff says:

    At this point, I don’t want the Dems to sign on to anything that limits immigration.

    Democrats don’t negotiate with Terrorists.

  173. 173
    Aleta says:

    @trollhattan: Jesus. Smite this guy.

    John, of Scottsdale, says the kids are probably better off separated from their parents. “They’re getting three meals a day, (I deleted some racism), and going on field trips,” he wrote. “Seems to me they have it much better than they did with their parents”

  174. 174
    TenguPhule says:

    The senior Democrat on the committee, Rep. Elijah E. Cummings of Maryland, said lawmakers should focus instead on the ongoing debate over a new Trump administration move to separate immigrant families at the border and detain children apart from their parents.

    Are we really going to sit here, 70 members of the Congress of the United States of America in 2018, and have a hearing that just repeats the hearings the Senate had yesterday on Hillary Clinton’s emails?” Cummings asked, his voice rising. He said the U.S. government is running “child internment camps” at the border. “What country is that?” he asked angrily. He urged Republicans to pressure Trump to reverse course.

    Via Wapo, from the Republican’s Clinton email probe take XXXXVI.

  175. 175
    The Ancient Randonneur says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    Yep. Not quite as easy to imagine a bunch of young girls as gangsters. The administration knows it. GOP Congress is terrified those pictures come out before they can get a bill on the floor.

  176. 176
    TenguPhule says:

    @Aleta:

    They’re getting three meals a day, (I deleted some racism), and going on field trips,

    1. They’re probably not getting 3 actual meals a day. So far the only food reported has been apples and chips.

    2. I guess field trips is the new GOP code word for “sold into slavery”.

  177. 177
    efgoldman says:

    @jl:

    when you see or hear the media mess up a story, is to contact them and complain politely

    Once upon a long ago, you could actually call directly to the newsroom and complain. A friend of mine got thru directly to John Chancellor after they ran a cut in about Chappaquiddick on a Sujday afternoon I was with him.
    Now? If you’re lucky you get a useful “contact us” box.

  178. 178
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Donald Trump is not a father. He is, at best, a sperm donor.

  179. 179
    Mnemosyne says:

    @rikyrah:

    The Trumpistas had better watch out. They’ve pissed off the knitters, and we are not people who back down. 😈

  180. 180
    Schlemazel says:

    Bless you for going, particularly since it would have been easy to use the distance as an excuse. It may feel like a small sacrifice but every body counts.

  181. 181
    TenguPhule says:

    @misterpuff:

    Democrats don’t negotiate with Terrorists.

    “We don’t negotiate with terrorists. We kill them. Just like Bin Laden.”

  182. 182
    realbtl says:

    @raven: Good to hear. I’ve got a 13? yo rescue Weim and never know what’s going to happen next.

  183. 183
    TenguPhule says:

    Dirty Computer
    @Johngcole
    Replying to @Johngcole
    My other absolute favorite nightmare is that I have been called back to active duty and I am late for formation because I am too fat for all of my BDU’s.

    TMI Cole.

  184. 184
    Sab says:

    @HeleninEire: @HeleninEire: I am not a troll.I have been commenting here for for more than a decade. I also still live in the US.

    Me and my family still live here. Paying taxes isn’t the only aspect of citizenship. We live here. We get medical treatment here. My grandchildren go to school here.

    You left. I am glad you are happy in Ireland. It is a lovely country.

    Re-reading my comment, it came out much snarkier than I intended.
    Nevertheless, you are still an ex-pat. Me and mine are in-pats. You wax eloquent about the other country you moved to.

    However, you left. I have been reading your comments for at least a year about how wonderful Ireland is. Fine. Glad you like it. You don’t live here anymore, and the longer you are gone the less you will understand us. You are reading this in the news. We are living this. You re deluding yourself if you think you can have two countries.

    BJ gets lots of great comments from across the world. Just admit that’s where you are posting from.

  185. 185
    raven says:

    @HeleninEire: This was the day we found bohdi and that is raven. LIL bit got dumped and we went to our vet to get her.

  186. 186
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Aleta:
    I see the same type of minimizing, trivializing attitude when some people talk about Trump’s evil. They say he’s said some “mean” things, completely glossing over the fact that Trump has emboldened tiki torch wielding Nazis who ran over a bunch of people last year and dehumanizes entire groups with those same words. Oh but god forbid call them fascists. That’s dehumanizing then.

  187. 187
    efgoldman says:

    @Sab:

    Ireland is your country now. You emigrated. Own it

    And they voted overwhelmingly to turf the church mandated abortion ban. Some backwards country that is.

  188. 188
    JPL says:

    @Kelly: I’m jealous. The one thing about holding children in cages is they can be separated from their siblings also. Think about that after watching your grandchildren play.

  189. 189
    HeleninEire says:

    @raven: WOO HOO Lil bit. Keep going on!

  190. 190
    debit says:

    Okay, polling experts, I just got a call from WPA INtelligence that ended really fast. Questions were: How often do I vote, and will I vote D or R in the upcoming election. Should cities that arrest undocumented people report them to ICE. Do I feel Trump is effective and do I like his style, feel he’s effective and don’t like his style, don’t feel he’s effective but DO like his style, don’t agree with either. Do I think his tax cut is good for the economy and will benefit people like me. You can guess how I answered each, but I’m wondering who put the poll out, since I don’t recognize the candidates named.

  191. 191
    Yutsano says:

    @raven: Good news! May it continue to be positive!

  192. 192
    Yarrow says:

    @raven: Yay! Excellent news! Sending good thoughs.

  193. 193
    Roger Moore says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    They’ve pissed off the knitters, and we are not people who back down.

    Thank you, Madame Defarge.

  194. 194
    Mary G says:

    @raven: That is still one of the all-time great dog pictures. Bohdi being bouncy and hi! You are my friend! and Raven looking at you with grumpiness, but still I suppose we can live with him. My favorite.

  195. 195
    JPL says:

    If the republicans were really concerned they would pass a law saying the president is not allowed to separate families.

  196. 196
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Sab:

    This is exactly the right response.

    Gerrymandering, voter suppression, disenfranchisement, arcane voting rules, minority rule in the Senate, etc. are the structural issues that have landed us where we are.

    Coming up with the perfect hot-take about how this administration is just so Nazi isn’t going to solve anything.

    People need to get out and do the work on the ground.

  197. 197
  198. 198
    debit says:

    @raven: That is good news!

  199. 199
    TenguPhule says:

    @JPL:

    If the republicans were really concerned they would pass a law saying the president is not allowed to separate families.

    In response to Trump imprisoning children in cages, the Republican bill’s solution is to imprison the rest of their family in there with them.

  200. 200
    The Ancient Randonneur says:

    BTW happy Juneteenth aka Emancipation Day. Anyone got a link to the WH proclamation taking note of this historic date? I can’t seem to find it.

  201. 201
    JPL says:

    @TenguPhule: The reason I don’t like the Cruz plan is that in two weeks they are out of there back to the country of origin. Good luck getting a fair hearing in two weeks.

    I’m streaming Chuck and he showed Trump comparing the children to MS13 .. I yelled and the dog jumped.

  202. 202
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @raven:

    Here’s hoping.

    Yes! All the best wishes sent to you and Lil Bit!

  203. 203
    Kelly says:

    @JPL: I’ll spoil them as best I can.

  204. 204
  205. 205
    JPL says:

    @Kelly: Since I don’t have grandchildren, spoil them extra for me.

  206. 206
    SgrAstar says:

    @Mandalay: bullshit. I am not responsible for this in any way, and trump’s policies do not reflect my views, or those of anyone in my circle. “WE” are not responsible for this…and “we” are the ones who will slam these traitors into the dirt in November.

  207. 207
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Starfish:

    They couldn’t find any Latino leaders in all of Texas?

    I didn’t include this in my description, but former El Paso County Judge Valerie Escobar, the Democratic nominee to replace O’Rourke in Congress, spearheaded the event with him. She spoke at the beginning of the event, but I couldn’t get close enough for a decent photo. Another Hispanic leader for immigrant rights spoke at the rally, but alas he was too short (or maybe I am too short) for me to get a picture in the crowds.

  208. 208
    JPL says:

    Matt Yglesias just tweeted that there are no Canadian tariffs on shoes, so no need to scruff them up I knew that story was projection on his part, because that is what his family does when returning from Europe.

  209. 209
    The Moar You Know says:

    Lil Bit update. Surgery was done this morning and preliminary report is good. She on IV and kept cool and calm and may come home tomorrow. I was on the road today and they were supposed to do in in the late pm but we got the call@ 10:30. Here’s hoping.

    @raven: Hoping with/for you. No feeling worse than your dog in trouble.

  210. 210
    Sab says:

    @efgoldman: @efgoldman: I am not saying it is backward. It’s a fine country. I am saying it is the country that she chose to be hers.

    So don’t talk about being ashamed of “my country” when she has already bailed on the place. I loved following her story. i love that she is happy. On the other hand I am not willing to sit by and passively accept her criticism of this country as if it is still hers. She opted out. I believe fervently that we need criticism from abroad, but that is what it is. She doesn’t live here, and as far as I can tell, doesn’t intend to return. So this really isn’t her country anymore, by her choice. The priority of various issues changes drastically if you don’t have to experience the consequences.

  211. 211

    @raven: That sounds promising. Best to you and Lil Bit.

  212. 212
    Aleta says:

    I believe we need to push back very hard now, in the courts and as consumers and protesters; other policies and restrictions are in their pipeline.

    Court cases now about Trump’s HS/ICE/CBP may affect everyone’s civil rights later. This warrantless questioning in Bangor, VT and CA/NV… ICE behavior in Oakland and Texas and Florida… refusal to give information to Senators or respond to FOI Act requests … police and hospitals getting away with abuse of black people…
    these are threats to every person in the US, citizen and visitor.

  213. 213
    raven says:

    Thanks ya’ll.

  214. 214
    The Ancient Randonneur says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Thanks. I did find it but I couldn’t edit my comment for some reason.

  215. 215
    Yarrow says:

    The best people.

    News: White House Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations Joe Hagin, who ran West Wing preparations for last week's Singapore summit, is leaving the White House. Trump says: "We will miss him in the office and even more on the road." His last day is expected to be July 6.— Zeke Miller (@ZekeJMiller) June 19, 2018

    Hagin had been thinking about leaving for the last few weeks. Yesterday, we revealed he had previously worked with key backers of an alleged "sex cult" and was one of a dozen to be invited to one of their events in the Alps called an "intensive" https://t.co/dBambr08vx https://t.co/8ZGMtRbOsZ— Tarini Parti (@tparti) June 19, 2018

    More on the sex cult. Igtet was Hagin’s Libyan client:

    Igtet, however, had other interests outside recovering Libyan riches, including one at the center of a major sex-trafficking case. Igtet was deeply involved in NXIVM, the celebrity “sex cult” whose leadership is now under federal indictment, two sources said.

  216. 216
    efgoldman says:

    @Sab:

    So don’t talk about being ashamed of “my country” when she has already bailed on the place

    How many more of us would bail if we had the resources (monetary, a destination, transportation)? You don’t know, neither do I, so just shut the fuck up.
    Also FYI she left before the 2016 election

  217. 217
    sukabi says:

    @Baud: yes, she’s been very present and outspoken on this and other important issues.

    Junior Representative is the easy out for media…more likely it’s her gender and ethnicity.

  218. 218
    Roger Moore says:

    @TenguPhule:

    In response to Trump imprisoning children in cages, the Republican bill’s solution is to imprison the rest of their family in there with them.

    Bear in mind, though, that their justification for separating the kids from their parents is that they’ve arrested the parents and they aren’t legally allowed to throw the kids in jail with them. Jailing the whole family together wouldn’t be any worse.

  219. 219
    The Moar You Know says:

    I am not a troll.I have been commenting here for for more than a decade. I also still live in the US.

    @Sab: You’ve been here a while. You don’t comment much but it’s always on point when you do. One of the last people I’d call a troll.

    You did not deserve that.

  220. 220
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Sab: An American is an American until he/she goes into an embassy and renounces his/her citizenship.

  221. 221
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @The Moar You Know: Helen didn’t deserve the comment directed at her, either.

  222. 222
    zhena gogolia says:

    @raven:

    Oh, that’s good news. I’m thinking about all of you.

  223. 223
    Nelle says:

    @Sab: Some of us come and go for a variety of reasons. You are pretty presumptuous and judgemental. And just as some can love more than one state, some of us love more than one landscape, country, or culture.

  224. 224
    MomSense says:

    @raven: good news! Paws still crossed for lil bit.

    Thank you, O Felix for going to this rally. These pictures really lift my spirits.

    Keep fighting!

  225. 225
  226. 226
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Brickley Paiste:
    Thanks Captain Oblivious.

  227. 227
    Sab says:

    @Gin & Tonic: She could have said I was rude or overreacting. She said I was a troll. BJ mean girl middle of the night bullying.

    I am guessing I hit a netve.

  228. 228
    debbie says:

    @JPL:

    I could really feel your despair in your posts yesterday, and I share it today, along with a great deal of anger. This morning when I heard Sessions’ “proof” that the Trump administration wasn’t a bunch of N*zis because (to paraphrase) the N*zis wanted to keep their Jews, not get rid of them, I thought I would lose my mind. I spent all day at work wanting to punch someone.

  229. 229
    debbie says:

    @raven:

    You’ve given her such a good life!

  230. 230
    rikyrah says:

    @misterpuff:
    Correct. No negotiating with terrorists.

  231. 231
    zhena gogolia says:

    Everybody’s depressed and tense and angry. We should avoid directing it at each other.

  232. 232
    JPL says:

    @efgoldman: There is a locale retired teacher that now plays the fiddle in a bar in Ireland. Her move had nothing to do with love of country.

    @Sab: Sorry goes a long way.

    As we get closer to the midterms, we are all going to be on edge, so I suggest yoga or wine.

  233. 233
    zhena gogolia says:

    @raven:

    Are those soulful eyes, or what?

  234. 234
    Aleta says:

    @Sab:

    Like Israel and Italy, Ireland allows those with Irish ancestors to claim an Irish passport. In fact, there are some 14 million Irish passports in circulation, despite the country having a much, much smaller population. Ireland does allow dual citizenship.

    Maybe I misunderstand you. If so, I apologize. She expressed some emotions that are common for people with US connections who travel or live outside the US when the US does terrible things. Lots of people living in the US are saying the same thing right now.

    You have a problem with her emotional commitment to the US ? With her donating to the ACLU? At a time like this?

  235. 235
    rikyrah says:

    @raven:
    Absolutely adorable 😍

  236. 236
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Sab: First rule of holes…

  237. 237
    Hugely says:

    @Mandalay: OK how about “its not who we should be”. When one says “its not who we are” they believe in the better angels of our nature thats all.

    – no need to split hairs and beat up on the hippies/actual Christians

  238. 238
    JPL says:

    @debbie: We can’t disengage but we need strategies for personal survival. In the south there are not a lot of like minded people, but there are some. I gravitate more towards them.

  239. 239
    TenguPhule says:

    House Republicans released a budget proposal Tuesday that would balance in nine years — but only by making large cuts to entitlement programs, including Medicare and Social Security, that Trump has vowed not to touch.

    The House Budget Committee is aiming to pass the blueprint later this week, but that may be as far as it goes this midterm election year. It’s not clear that GOP leaders will put the document on the House floor for a vote, and even if it were to pass the House, the budget would have little impact on actual spending levels.

    Nonetheless the budget serves as an expression of Republicans’ priorities at a time of rapidly rising deficits and debt. Although the nation’s growing indebtedness has been exacerbated by the GOP’s own policy decisions — including the new tax law, which most analyses say will add at least $1 trillion to the debt — Republicans on the Budget Committee said they felt a responsibility to put the nation on a sounder fiscal trajectory.

    “The time is now for our Congress to step up and confront the biggest challenge to our society,” said House Budget Chairman Steve Womack (R-Ark.). “There is not a bigger enemy on the domestic side than the debt and deficits.”

    The GOP dog and pony show is released, via Wapo.

    The nation’s greatest enemy is Republicans. They must be uprooted, branch and root, lest they infest the land with their poisoned taint.

  240. 240
    ruemara says:

    @Sab: Dude or Ma’am. You didn’t hit a nerve. You were above and beyond rude. Helen did not abandon this country. She has as much right as any other voter to be opinionated and she is trying to do what she can from abroad. You don’t get to select who can comment. Do you want me to be quiet, since I’m not even a citizen? Because you damned well know what my response would be. You have no right to take out your feelings on the current disaster on her.

  241. 241
    JPL says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Good advice for all of us.

  242. 242
    Hugely says:

    @JPL: vino o yoga? porque no los dos?

  243. 243
    rikyrah says:

    Helen is good people. She is an American. She didn’t ‘bail’ on us.

  244. 244
    The Other Chuck says:

    @Sab: You don’t know a thing about Helen or why she left.
    Anyone else here who should submit their views and geographical location to you for your personal approval?

  245. 245
    Mandalay says:

    @SgrAstar:

    bullshit. I am not responsible for this in any way, and trump’s policies do not reflect my views, or those of anyone in my circle.

    Bullshit right back at you, and you are taking umbrage for no reason; “This is not who we are” has nothing to do with your precious snowflake views.

  246. 246
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Ms. D. Ranged in AZ:
    Trump — unqualified, unprepared, unfit for the office in every way including some not anticipated — was duly elected. There is no process to invalidate his election Nor to legitimately stop him exercising any of the powers of the office while he occupies it. Fight him and his supporters all the way on everything he wants to do, because it’s all bad for America and the world. Just don’t be in denial that he is your president.

  247. 247
    mg_65 says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: Hey, O. Felix Culpa — delurking to say thank you so much for doing this! And it’s a great post. I shared it on FB, I hope that’s OK?

  248. 248
    raven says:

    @zhena gogolia: They oughta be, 7 meds twice a day for 11 years!

  249. 249
    Elizabelle says:

    @Sab: No, honestly Sab, I think you’re out of line. Not right to pick on Helen.

    Silly question, but does Helen have dual citizenship? As in, resides and votes locally in Ireland, but can also vote in US federal elections? (Prez, Congress, Senators …) I cannot recall.

  250. 250
    Elizabelle says:

    @JPL:

    we are all going to be on edge, so I suggest yoga or wine.

    And pets. And walks. And lots and lots of pets. Personal therapy pets.

    And making a point of visiting with wonderful people in person. Personal connections.

    This is feeling like hot summer murder weather setting in.

  251. 251
    Mandalay says:

    @Hugely:

    OK how about “its not who we should be”.

    Yes, that is much closer to the reality. I find it tough to come up with scenarios where “this is not who we are” can be meaningfully applied.

    Perhaps the right to free speech, since that is something that the population has always broadly supported, and is a characteristic that does define “who we are” as a nation (notwithstanding a gazillion exceptions that anyone can easily come up with). So “this is not who we are” might be an appropriate response to some hypothetical attempt by a vengeful government to muzzle certain elements of the press.

    But hostility and racist conduct towards migrants doesn’t come close to qualifying for “this is not who we are”. A sizable minority support that now, and have solidly supported that throughout our history.

  252. 252
    JPL says:

    @Elizabelle: The reason the children hit me hard is because of the long term damage. I lost my 30 month old at the Dallas Fair Grounds. Although they locked the gates immediately, he made his way back to the car. It took hours because who looks at where the car is parked. Because it so so traumatic we didn’t dwell on it. When he was in his twenties, he said I still remember when you lost me. If he remembered that, what will the children remember. What happened is someone was parked next to us and since they interrupted all the shows, they carried him back. Okay I’m in tears again, because Trump is a monster.

  253. 253
    HeleninEire says:

    @rikyrah: Thank you

  254. 254
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @mg_65: Thank you, and of course, feel free to share. :)

  255. 255
    HeleninEire says:

    @Sab: Wow look at your sorry ass face talking about me. Lets be clear. I decided 30 years ago that I would retire here. When I left my job a year before the election I said WTF do it now. And then I spent a year living on my saved money working for Hillary. And don’t you dare talk to me about ‘owning it” Owing what, stupid? Name it.

  256. 256
    HeleninEire says:

    @Elizabelle: Dual. I vote from my last residence state. So NY and Fed

  257. 257
    HeleninEire says:

    Also too Elizabelle @ 249. Yeah I can vote here too. My very first vote was YES REPEAL THE EIGHTH. That was the amendment in the Irish constitution that made abortion illegal. Sab will be sad but I don’t care.

  258. 258
    Aleta says:

    @JPL: Amazing child to make his way back to his own car at 30 months. He must have been very good at spatial memory, orientation in space. I remember once driving a 3 1/2 year old to her preschool. “Oh she’ll tell you how to go,” her parents said. And she did, told me every turn to make. I predicted she’d be good at math and dance (just guessing), and sure enough at 15 she’s at ease and intuitive in both.

  259. 259
  260. 260
    Aleta says:

    @raven: Beautiful dog.

  261. 261
    JPL says:

    @Aleta: He majored in Finance and Computer Science but when he was younger played the violin. I wish he kept that up because he never squeaked He’s my youngest who is now edging up to forty and can’t understand why he and his wife are getting a tax cut.
    I will say that when he was returned I just broke down, but my now ex never did. He held it in which is damaging in the long run.

  262. 262
    kattails says:

    @raven: Sweet curly haired girl! Hang in there, they can be very stoic and strong. If she made it through the surgery, that’s a very good thing. So happy for you. Breathing is a good thing.

    PS Came in very late, saw your Dad’s photo the other day. Very handsome guy. I now can assume that “Raven” is not due to hair color.

  263. 263
    kattails says:

    @Sab: “BJ mean girl” has never been my impression of HeleninEire. Your comment was rude and made assumptions about her relationship with her country. There are plenty of people currently living here who know a hell of a lot less about it than she does, several of my neighbors to start. I simply don’t understand why you made such a comment to begin with; it appears intended to de-legitimize her presence. What was the point?

  264. 264
    J R in WV says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I have to disagree with you here. I have sworn an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, as did D. J. Trump. Now, we see D J T doing everything but protecting and defending the Constitution, not even respecting it and obeying it.

    Not my president, not at all. He isn’t even a law-abiding citizen. I won’t respect him, honor him, but shall work against him, until he leaves DC whether in Marine One or feet first on a slab.

    He didn’t win the election, he got far fewer votes than Ms Clilnton. Not my president.

    Otherwise, I respect you yourself far more than D J T.

  265. 265
    J R in WV says:

    @Sab:

    You are so obviously a troll, and probably always have been.

    Oldest post I can find from you is March, 2017. So not a poster from way back at all.

    Fuck you, asshole. Holier than thou muthafuqer. Welcome to the pie list forever more!

  266. 266
    J R in WV says:

    @Mandalay:

    “And Florida Senator Bill Nelson was told by DHS that he would need to give “two weeks notice” to be able to enter a “facility” in Florida.”

    This is fucked up beyond all belief… obviously DHS is terrified that the true appearance and facts on the ground of their facilities will be appalling to Senator Nelson, and to all Americans who aren’t nazi bigots.

    I think the good Senator should get a lawyer with courage, select a local judge with courage, get a search warrant from the judge, get a detachment of cops with the judge’s aid, take some camera teams, and force entry into at least one of these concentration camps.

    I waver between wanting them to go in in the wee hours and wanting them to go in a dinner time, to see what the “kitchen” is able to provide to the prisoners in the concentration camps. But we need frequent unannounced inspections of these pest holes to keep these monsters from continuing abhorrent practices with these kids.

    There are strict laws protecting children, and we know these gestapo monsters aren’t even aware of these protective laws, much obeying them. And that’s why a judge should be willing to issue a search warrant for any and all of these facilities. Obviously you need a judge who isn’t a nazi, but there are honest and fair judges out there.

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