Stabbed in the Back – Kudlow and Navarro

Both Larry Kudlow and Peter Navarro said something on this morning’s news programs that bothered me a lot. My tweet thread is going viral, so I thought I’d share it. Looks like not everyone knows the history.

This is the tweet I quoted. Yes, a New York Times reporter.

189 replies
  1. 1
    Trentrunner says:

    Nah, it’s all good with ICE taking children away from parents by telling the parents that the children are just going “to bathe” and then the parents realizing hours later that their children aren’t coming back.

    From Trump & Co., Sophie’s Choice was an instruction manual.

  2. 2
    PigDog says:

    They’re upset because they know – deep down – that Canada is actually the realization of America’s promise.

  3. 3
    trollhattan says:

    Yikes. I’m seeing Stephen Miller offstage, scribbling last-minute changes to their scripts.

  4. 4
    debbie says:

    It will be a while before I can finish reading your thread. I can’t stop laughing at Kudlow calling anyone “amateurish.”

  5. 5
    Hunter Gathers says:

    The day that Trump starts advocating for black genocide will be the day that Trump truly becomes president. At least that’s what the NYT will tell us.

  6. 6
    trollhattan says:

    Whoops, Michael Miller.

    Apologies to the 1.5 million Stephen Millers

  7. 7
    Elizabelle says:

    Excellent tweets series, Cheryl.

    Will read the Safire article about Argentina today.

    And what is happening is not that spontaneous. Too bad the Fuck the Fucking New York Times either doesn’t know history, or ignores it. Who in NY Times leadership got money or treasure from Russia, or is being blackmailed? This is obtuse, even for them.

    (Not so much not recognizing “stabbed in the back” immediately. It’s the way they’re normalizing him.)

  8. 8
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trollhattan: @trollhattan: I would put money on the talking points being written by Stephen Miller. Kudlow, though now a converted Roman Catholic, was Jewish. He would never use this without being told to do so.

  9. 9
    debbie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    You’re assuming Miller shares his thought processes. I doubt that.

  10. 10
    Hunter Gathers says:


    Who in NY Times leadership got money or treasure from Russia, or is being blackmailed?

    Neither. Their analytics must show that there are a large number of American Nazis who are toying with the idea of getting a subscription.

  11. 11
    sp98 says:

    I always understood the Dolchstoßlegende to be the claim by the German military commanders and their right-wing allies that the German Army wasn’t defeated in World War I, rather Germany was tricked by the (left-wing) politicians into surrendering. The Versailles Treaty was a consequence of German politicians betraying the German Army. Useful for the military men who lost the war to avoid responsibility.

  12. 12
    mozzerb says:

    @debbie: You’re assuming thought processes.

  13. 13

    @sp98: Yours is the more precise use of the term.

  14. 14
    joel hanes says:

    Back in America’s previous nightmare, the W misadministration, we in the reality-based-community often referred to the dolchstosslegende : just as the militarists tried it to wave away America’s failure in Viet Nam, they floated it again, over and over, to “explain” how opposition to the war in Iraq was unpatriotic and the equivalent of treason — “stabbing our troops in the back”.

  15. 15
    dmsilev says:

    @sp98: That was the origin of the idea, but Hitler used it and amplified it during his ride to power.

  16. 16
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @sp98: The phrase was suggested to a German officer by a British officer, too.

  17. 17
    hellslittlestangel says:

    Canada stabbing us in the back will be used to justify our going after some lebensraum.

  18. 18
    rikyrah says:

    Thanks for the Twitter thread

  19. 19
    MobileForkbeard says:

    Trump’s advisers use Nazi terminology, occurence #177.

    At this point, why is the media giving them any kind of benefit of the doubt? Either it’s on purpose and it’s awful, or they’re using these phrases publicly because they use them in private and associate with people who also use them… which is awful.

    Maybe “Trump’s cabinet is always using Nazi phrases” is a worthwhile news story.

  20. 20
    CliosFanBoy says:

    @sp98: not that they “tricked” the military, but that they undermined it. the leftists, and of course the (((Jews))).

  21. 21
  22. 22
    Duane says:

    Kudlow and Navarro really exposed themselves as the complete incompetents they are. Having those two clowns in charge of anything is beyond me. The worse people work for the Commander of Cheese.

  23. 23
    SFAW says:


    Kudlow and Navarro really exposed themselves as the complete incompetents they are.

    Depends on what you’re measuring. If it’s the “how much irrational hatred of furriners — even our (former) friends — can we generate?” then I think they’re doing OK. Not as well as Lying Littledick, but he’s a tough act to beat in that regard.

  24. 24
    Mary G says:

    This isn’t a coincidence. The one book the president appears to have read was a collection of Hitler’s speeches.

    In a 1990 interview with Vanity Fair, Ivana claimed that Twitler kept a copy of Hitler’s speeches beside the bed.

    Donald Trump appears to take aspects of his German background seriously. John Walter works for the Trump Organization, and when he visits Donald in his office, Ivana told a friend, he clicks his heels and says, “Heil Hitler,” possibly as a family joke.

    Last April, perhaps in a surge of Czech nationalism, Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler’s collected speeches, My New Order, which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed. Kennedy now guards a copy of My New Order in a closet at his office, as if it were a grenade. Hitler’s speeches, from his earliest days up through the Phony War of 1939, reveal his extraordinary ability as a master propagandist

    Business Insider:

    Trump then recalled, “Actually, it was my friend Marty Davis from Paramount who gave me a copy of ‘Mein Kampf,’ and he’s a Jew.”

    Brenner added that Davis did acknowledge that he gave Trump a book about Hitler.

    “But it was ‘My New Order,’ Hitler’s speeches, not ‘Mein Kampf,'” Davis reportedly said. “I thought he would find it interesting. I am his friend, but I’m not Jewish.”

    After Trump and Brenner changed topics, Trump returned to the subject and reportedly said, “If, I had these speeches, and I am not saying that I do, I would never read them.”

    The Nation said he echoed Hitler in the speech he made withdrawing from the Paris climate accords.

  25. 25
    trollhattan says:

    @Mary G:
    Trump’s record of being wrong about everything has been intact for decades, hasn’t it. Wrong book, wrong religion.

  26. 26
    Ruckus says:

    Difficult to think of anyone possessing decent human qualities that would work for such a worthless piece of shit.

  27. 27
    SFAW says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I would put money on the talking points being written by Stephen Miller.

    Someone — Richard Spencer, maybe? — should pull Miller aside and give him words of encouragement. Something along the lines of “Keep working at it, because work makes you free. Know what I mean?”

    I’m sure Miller is laboring under the delusion that he’d “get a pass” because he’s “one of the good ones.”

  28. 28
    Raven says:

    “Parallel interpretations of national trauma after military defeat appear in other countries.[20] For example, it was used regarding the United States in the Vietnam War, without the anti-Semitic slant.[21] The song The Battle-Hymn of Lieutenant Calley claims that “While we’re fighting in the jungles they were marching in the street. / While we’re dying in the rice fields they were helping our defeat. / While we’re facing V.C. bullets they were sounding a retreat”. See also Vietnam Syndrome.”

  29. 29
    Ruckus says:

    He’s the best at being the worst. Damn he’s finally the best at something. And I’d have thought that being the best shitty human wouldn’t be something to shoot for. I guess I don’t have his mind. And it looks like no one else does either. Some are trying though.

  30. 30
    Brachiator says:

    Oh dear, Kudlow is upset and we can’t figure it out.”

    How the fuck could anyone not figure this out. I had mild insomnia last night and followed this story from Trump backing out of the agreed upon statement, and his Twitter hissy fit. Later, I saw the news story about McCain being the only Republican to criticize Trump and side with our allies.

    I didn’t realize the historical background of the “stabbed in the back” comment until Cheryl Rofer’s brilliant post here.

    Again, Trump has been consistent with his monomania about Europe taking advantage of the US, but up till now, European leaders believed that Trump could be reasonable. Now, they are realizing that Trump cannot be reasoned with.

    Trump’s staff are doubling down in support of Trump, and right now it appears that Fox News and the GOP leadership are going to back their Dear Leader to the bitter end.

    Meanwhile, the leader of China was hosting the SCO conference, attended by Putin, the leader of Iran and others. This was a much friendlier affair, with Xi holding out his hand and telling the world, “Come with me if you want to live.”

  31. 31
    Ruckus says:

    Some people just have to get their war on. Doesn’t matter who or why or where, they just have to have a war. Most often they will never actually fight in it, that they will leave for others. But it gives them something momentous to claim as their point in life.

  32. 32
    Mary G says:

    And another thing that bugs: Bolton is always in these photos holding a yellow legal pad with nothing written on it.

  33. 33
    Duane says:

    @SFAW: From that perspective, you are correct. I did nazi that.

  34. 34
    raven says:

    Jerry Lembke talks about it quite a bit in “Spitting Image”. This is a NYT article so, if you don’t like it, don’t click on it.

    Finger pointing for the loss of the war began even before it was over. The pacifists and radicals who stoked the antiwar movement were easy targets for the patriotic right wing looking for scapegoats, but the visibility of women in the resistance to the war made them suspects as well. After Ms. Fonda went to North Vietnam on a peace mission in 1972, she was denounced as a traitor in profanely sexist language and tarred as “Hanoi Jane.” Years later, the feminist author Susan Faludi wrote that fears of emasculation having cost America its victory in Vietnam were the basis of a backlash against women in the 1980s.

    But, the reporter pressed, why spitting? Resisting the urge to plunge into the Freudian exegesis I wanted to take, I pointed to the long history of spitting imagery in legends of betrayal. In the New Testament, Christ’s followers spit on him in renunciation of their loyalty. Following Germany’s defeat in World War I, soldiers returning from the front claimed to have been spat on by women and girls. The German stories were studied by historians and found to be part of the “Dolchstosslegende,” or stab-in-the-back legend, that the military had been betrayed behind the lines, sold out at home.

  35. 35
    Elizabelle says:

    @Mary G: Yes. Exactly the article I was thinking of. Vanity Fair. By Marie Brenner. We will have to see what she’s been writing lately.

    The Hitler speeches — so NOT an accident.

  36. 36
    Felony Govt (formerly Old Broad in California) says:

    @SFAW: Yes, it saddens me, but I’m sure that Trump’s base is haw-hawing about how Trump showed those snooty foreign folks who’s boss.

  37. 37
    Adrift says:


  38. 38
    Anonymous At Work says:

    Odds are that Shear’s response is, “I have no idea what he means BUT I am unwilling to accept that interpretation.”

  39. 39
    Baud says:

    Looks like the Baud! 2020! slogan will be Arsenal for Democracy!

  40. 40
    MattF says:

    I suspect that ‘stabbed in the back’ is a run-of-the-mill Trump metaphor. Trump always assumes that unquestioning loyalty is his due, so stabs in the back are happening all the time.

  41. 41
    Brachiator says:

    @Felony Govt (formerly Old Broad in California):

    Yes, it saddens me, but I’m sure that Trump’s base is probably haw-hawing about how Trump showed those snooty foreign folks who’s boss.

    There’s a lot about how Trudeau is a punk kid that Trump is gonna slap around.

    There are also right wing Canadians applauding Trump, and even digging up old grievances about Trudeau’s father.

    These people really make themselves look like fools.

  42. 42
    sdhays says:

    @Mary G: What would he write? It’s not like any actions are going to come out of a meeting with “President” Alzheimer’s. His own staff ignore him if they feel like it and wait for him to forget.

  43. 43
    Ruckus says:

    @Mary G:
    Trying to look important, while being a worthless nothing?
    Trying to look like he gives a shit but has nothing new to add?
    Too stupid to listen and write?

  44. 44
    James Powell says:


    The US/Vietnam version of the Dolchstoßlegende determined the outcome of the 2004 presidential election.

  45. 45
  46. 46
    Marcopolo says:

    Hello BJers,

    Hope everyone had as nice of a weekend as Justify, Halep, and Nadal.

    A few random thoughts:

    I guess this means the Caps won’t be visiting the WH either—hockey is the national sport of our old foe Canada.

    I’m debating making a sign that says, “I love Canada/Canadians are our friends” on one side & “Screw Trump” on the other & standing in front of Kit Bond’s (our R Sen here in MO) local office for an hour or two tomorrow.

    I keep seeing Trump talk about how awesome the economy is doing & the unemployment rate being amazing, etc… Has anyone pointed out this is a result of our current trade arrangements? Maybe some enterprising WH reporter could ask Sarah about it?

    Finally, to the new regional Democratic campaign headquarters today. I plan to be working there one day per week starting July 1. This has nothing to do with the office being located surprising close to Crown Candy Kitchen, the oldest soda fountain in St Louis—and they make their own ice cream & chocolate. Nothing at all to do with that.

  47. 47
    Marcopolo says:

    @hellslittlestangel: See, we’ll need that land in the Yukon & Northwest Territories for farming once global climate change makes the Midwest/grainbelt too hot & dry to grow anything. So really you need to give Trump & Co credit for forward thinking & figuring out the context for annexing Canada now, right? Remember, their fetishization of fossil fuels is another piece of the plan.

  48. 48
    raven says:

    @James Powell: Yup and if Kerry had fought back from the get go it might not have turned out the way it did.

  49. 49
    Mike in NC says:

    Just finished reading “Shattered Empires”, about the chaos in Eastern Europe after WW1. As head of the German army, Paul Von Hindenburg was an enthusiastic proponent of the ‘stabbed in the back’ fallacy even before he allied himself with Hitler.

  50. 50
    Immanentize says:

    I think this huge tantrum is probably the result of Trudeau giving Trump a picture of his daddy’s brothel. Nothing to do with trade. Just dominance school yard shit.

  51. 51
    Brinkley Paiste says:

    @Hunter Gathers:
    I sometimes wonder at the purpose of such masturbatory hyperbole.

    Does it help people not think about the fact that we democrats chose a candidate who was unable to garner more electoral votes than a monster who was the least qualified candidate on a major ticket in over a century?

    Or is it more base? Just scratching away at an itch for true apocalypse?

    Either way, it isn’t helpful.

  52. 52
    Baud says:

    we democrats


  53. 53
    lgerard says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    The whole “on-the-spot guidance” is a very big part of the Kim family mythology.

    It would be hilarious if trump did the same thing

    oh wait, that’s Jared and Ivanks’s job.

  54. 54
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Mary G:
    It’s very obviously a prop, but a smarter person than Bolton would have written something on it for camouflage.

  55. 55
    SFAW says:


    hockey is the national sport of our old foe Canada.

    I think it’s actually lacrosse. But because of Canuck whining, Canadia made hockey the national WINTER sport a few years back.

  56. 56
    MattF says:

    @lgerard: When you’re a very stable genius, people want to make a record of your wisdom.

  57. 57

    @Baud: Sounded better in the original GermanRussian.

  58. 58
    randy khan says:

    I was in an airport this morning, and saw Kudlow on CNN, but the TV was far enough away that I couldn’t hear what he was saying. He looked like a madman.

  59. 59
    Amir Khalid says:

    That slogan doesn’t do anything for me. I support Liverpool.

  60. 60
    Mary G says:

    @Amir Khalid: You’d think they would at least have it be an iPad or laptop or whatever.

  61. 61
    SFAW says:



    Who’s your guess? goblue72? Reggie Mantle? NR? Bailey something-or-other?

  62. 62
    Corner Stone says:

    @Baud: “How do you do, fellow Democrats?”

  63. 63
    The Dangerman says:


    I suspect that ‘stabbed in the back’ is a run-of-the-mill Trump metaphor.

    Kinda how I see it, too; Trump got pissed and dictated the phrase and his sycophants had to echo it.

    Why would Trump be pissed? Could be the picture of Granpappy’s whorehouse given to him. More likely, Trump wasn’t the center of attention needed to be prior to the Summit. Where, of course, he’ll make sure he’s the center of attention.

  64. 64
    RobNYNY says:


    It goes together with Todd Starnes questioning other men’s masculinity and Jeanine Pirro calling other people irrational haters.

  65. 65
    Corner Stone says:

    @randy khan: He looked like he was coming off a coke bender, IMO.

  66. 66
    Duane says:

    @Marcopolo:Kit Bond’s office? Does he still set up shop cause he hasn’t been a senator since 2011. McCaskill took his spot.

  67. 67
    Corner Stone says:

    @James Powell:

    determined the outcome of the 2004 presidential election.

    It’s almost as if John Kerry went high when they went low…

  68. 68
    YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S) says:


    we democrats

    It’s a typo. They meant “wee democrats”

  69. 69
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Mary G:
    Bolton would probably hold an iPad with the screen facing away from him. His boss once managed to do that with a note written on paper.

  70. 70
    YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S) says:


    I think this huge tantrum is probably the result of Trudeau giving Trump a picture of his daddy’s brothel.

    I wonder if the diss had to be explained to him on the way home. That would explain the delayed blow up.

  71. 71
    chris says:

    @Mary G: They all most likely have blank pads because somebody, IIRC Kris Kobach, was photographed with some of his notes on voter suppression clearly visible sometime after the election. Bolton’s notes would just be mushroom clouds anyway, nothing to see there.

  72. 72
    Josie says:

    Thanks for this post, Cheryl. I was not aware of the history of the phrase and found it incongruous when I first saw it. Can’t say I’m surprised, however.

  73. 73
    Marcopolo says:

    @Duane: Oh my. Brain fart. I could blame autocorrect in replacing Blunt with Bond but it was all me :). So much for trying to multitask.

  74. 74
    Corner Stone says:

    Only Jeff Goldblum can look sexy swagging up to a yooge pile of dino poo.

  75. 75
    Redshift says:

    I’ve been in an uncommonly foul mood all day, mostly (I think) because a Berner friend of mine posted about how infuriated she was that the DNC adopted a rule that Democratic presidential candidates have to affirm that they’re Democrats. It’s somehow a slap in the face to Wilmer, despite the fact that he did exactly that in 2016.

    And then went on to profess the belief that they’ll all take their marbles and go home over this, And no one will be left but old Democrats (because apparently everyone under some unspecified age is a die-hard Wilmerite.) Unsurprisingly, this voice of the young is at least in her 40s.

    I think my foul mood is because I really want to scream that the rest of us are busy trying to save our democracy, so if being butthurt is more important to you, would you mind doing it quietly? But I don’t really want to deal with the response, so I won’t.

    But it makes me feel better to say it here, so thanks for listening.

  76. 76
    bystander says:


    These people really make themselves look like fools.

    They do a pretty good job of making their voters look like fools, too.

    Just listened to a discussion on MSNBC about twitler’s prospects at success with NK. The media’s ability to ignore every single thing that has happened to date just to be able to posit their phony narrative is amazing. Will it be a great success? Will we be able to say again how now twitler is truly our Prezzzidunt?

  77. 77
    Duane says:

    @raven: The shameless attacks on Kerry’s war record was a real eye-opener into the depraved methods the republicans would sink to for power. Support our troops. Lying bunch of chairborne commanders.

  78. 78
    Brendan in NC says:

    @Amir Khalid: YNWA!!!

  79. 79
    Jay says:


    A USDA study found that by 2050, climate change would make wheat growing south of 54 impossible.

    Unfortunately for us humans, the Precambian Shield doesn’t plow very well.

  80. 80
    burnspbesq says:

    As I said on FB in response to a post about tariffs on imported cars, my BMW will still be running long after Trump dies in prison.

    And as a hater of all things having to do with handegg, it amuses me no end to think that the first casualties of Trump’s trade war will be engineering students from Bama and Clemson.

  81. 81
    Marcopolo says:

    @Baud: pitch perfect reply that

  82. 82
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Kudlow, though now a converted Roman Catholic, was Jewish. He would never use this without being told to do so.

    You’re assuming he is aware of the baggage, which I would not. You’re also assuming he isn’t antisemitic, which I would not.

  83. 83
    MattF says:

    @bystander: Since reporters believe that nobody pays any attention to Trump’s past statements. The past is in the past.

  84. 84
    Mary G says:

    Freudian slip on Fox News:

    Abby Hunstman, host of the Fox News morning show Fox & Friends, said a few minutes ago that the summit between NK leader Kim Jong-un and Trump is a meeting between “two dictators.”

    She is the daughter of US Russian Ambassador Jon Huntsman…. no shit @SenateGOP2 dictators— ☇RiotWomenn☇ (@riotwomennn) June 10, 2018

  85. 85
    MattF says:

    @Jay: So much for ’54 40 or fight’, I guess.

  86. 86
    SFAW says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Only Jeff Goldblum can look sexy swagging up to a yooge pile of dino poo.

    You apparently have some alternative-facts definition for the term “sexy.”

  87. 87
    Marcopolo says:

    @Jay: Which is why we will need to haul all that topsoil (no doubt billions of pounds) a few hundred miles north—yet another huuuge business opportunity created by Trump. Elon Musk will be all over it. And…still all part of the plan. No, I am not a conspiracy theorist.

  88. 88
    bystander says:

    @Mary G: Talk about an offensive dic pic.

  89. 89
    Duane says:

    @Marcopolo: I’m old enough to remember when Bond was considered conservative. Same with Jon Danforth. The rethugs wouldn’t have them now. Bond is a stupid, evil hypocrite. Been on the government payroll since he left college. Southwest Baptist University in Bolivar Mo.

  90. 90
    SFAW says:



    So I learned a new term today. Not sure I’m a better person for it, however.

    Oh, and I learned SOME people think Jeff Goldblum is sexy.

  91. 91

    @Redshift: If you can’t say that stuff on BJ, where can you say it? Not in my daily life.

  92. 92
    chris says:

    Another stab in the back from some nobody! the GodKing will be displeased.

    There is a special place in heaven for @JustinTrudeau. Canada, thank you for the perfect organisation of G7!— Donald Tusk (@eucopresident) 10 June 2018

  93. 93
    Immanentize says:

    @Redshift: I feel the same. I decided to put Amy Winehouse “Back to Black” on repeat.

  94. 94
    Aleta says:

    @Immanentize: Also, well before the tantrum and the meeting, polls in Canada during his entire rule have publicized Canadians’ very low opinion of him. That’s enough for him to have put them on his punishment list before this week. Though his trade war actually punishes the US, his angry and dementia-enraged mind doesn’t weigh that. Acc to the Guardian, he’s seized on milk, which was never going to fly.

  95. 95
    bystander says:

    @Duane: Tom Coleman was on the other day arguing for impeaching twitler. Danforth’s right hand man and William Jewell grad, he was actually accusing twitler of violating the Constitution. That’s how far to the kookie right Missouri has gone.

  96. 96
    ninedragonspot says:

    @Redshift: the Berniebots have revved up their whining Wurlitzer in the past couple of weeks. I’ve separated myself from one friend just a couple days ago on this account (though she may have never stood a chance – she’s married to a die-hard bro who thought that Berniewouldawon the primaries if his wife were African-American).

    Efficient vectors for Republican ratfuckers are efficient!

  97. 97
    burnspbesq says:


    Football is played with feet and a ball. It is the civilized world’s game (allegedly).
    Handegg is played with hands and an egg-shaped object, by thugs in a handful of English-speaking countries.
    The culmination of each handegg season, the Superb Owl, draws a global TV audience smaller than the Champions League final.

  98. 98
    Steve in the ATL says:


    Arsenal for Democracy!

    Nice going. You just lost the vote of the Tottenham fans.

  99. 99
    burnspbesq says:

    Oh, yay. Millions of pounds of milk spoiling in holding tanks all over Wisconsin. How Trump thanks his supporters.

  100. 100
    Jay says:


    What topsoil? The UNAC released a study a few years ago that showed that at the current rate of depletion, it’s all gone by 2070.

    Meanwhile, China’s busy mining US topsoil as fast as they can and shipping it home.

  101. 101
    Barbara says:

    @Mary G: My first thought too. Trump internalized Hitler. I am sure Merkel is fully aware of it.

  102. 102
    burnspbesq says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Both of them?

  103. 103
    Aleta says:

    @Redshift: No surprise that Fox and conservatives have joined Berners in attacking Dems for this.

  104. 104
    Marcopolo says:

    @Duane: Bond was actually an interesting character. He was the grandson of AP Green, the guy who made his millions building factories & using new industrial tech & international marketing to exploit the fire clay deposits around Mexico MO & turn out fire brick. From the 30s through the 60s they were the #1 supplier worldwide. They finally closed up shop around 2000. Kind of an emblematic story of the economic life & death of small town America.

    Anyways, at least up until Bond was MO Governor he held some fairly progressive beliefs for a R. Believed the government could do things to improve the lives of the urban poor. A little like Jack Kemp. Once he got elected to the Senate though that all disappeared. And you are right about the comparison with Danforth—even to the point of being the grandson of the guy who founded Purina Mills which would become Ralston Purina.

  105. 105
    SFAW says:


    Fecking lawyers. I dinna ask for a mansplanation. Amazingly enough, I had already managed to use Teh Google (which I’m normally too lazy to do).

    Anyway, the only REAL ball sport is played with what used to be called a “crosse.”

    draws a global TV audience smaller than the Champions League final.

    How do they know how tall they are? And it would seem to be quasi-counterintuitive, since ‘Murican footbal players and wannabes would theoretically be larger than those other fans. [Note: The preceding assessment was based on zero data, of course]

  106. 106
    Brachiator says:


    Just listened to a discussion on MSNBC about twitler’s prospects at success with NK. The media’s ability to ignore every single thing that has happened to date just to be able to posit their phony narrative is amazing.

    They have to fill the time with empty prattle. I was watching BBC World news. Some of the segments were not much better.

  107. 107
    Mnemosyne says:


    My guess is goblue72. He hasn’t been around in a while and desperately needed a new persona.

    Could also be our resident gun-hugger, who not-so-mysteriously vanished after the Parkland massacre. I can’t remember what his last nym was.

  108. 108
    SFAW says:


    Oh, yay. Millions of pounds of milk spoiling in holding tanks all over Wisconsin. How Trump thanks his supporters.

    Something about Cheeseheads …

  109. 109
    Marcopolo says:

    @Jay: Shhhh. Don’t ruin the con.

  110. 110
    SFAW says:


    They have to fill the time with empty prattle.

    Hey! That’s MY job!!!!

  111. 111
    Barbara says:

    @ninedragonspot: They revved it up as primary season went into full swing and they have bupkis to show for it, especially in the high profile states of Ohio and California.

  112. 112
    burnspbesq says:


    Unless you’re Six Nations, it’s a stick. Although we all play the Medicine Game for the Creator’s pleasure.

  113. 113
    SFAW says:


    My guess is goblue72.

    Yeah, seemed like his schtick. But there have been so many ….

  114. 114
    SFAW says:


    Unless you’re Six Nations, it’s a stick. Although we all play the Medicine Game for the Creator’s pleasure.

    I think it was still called a crosse (by we non-Six persons) into the mid-20th Century. But outside of that, I can’t argue with your comments.

    As an amusing-to-no-one-but-myself aside: I used to play in a summer league called the Baggataway League. (It was in the Boston area, not Upstate.) I may still have my jersey(s) from then, but the likelihood of fitting into one is on a par with the Mets sweeping the Yankees this weekend.

  115. 115
    Mnemosyne says:


    You probably should have asked a woman before declaring that Jeff Goldblum is not sexy. Many of us disagree with you, as do some gay men.

  116. 116

    @Mnemosyne: @SFAW: I’m just impressed they went away so quickly here.

  117. 117
    Redshift says:

    @Dorothy Winsor:

    If you can’t say that stuff on BJ, where can you say it? Not in my daily life.

    Thanks. Honestly, the main reason I don’t want to respond is that I don’t want to think about it. The self-importance of a group that is sure “the voters” agree with them as they keep not winning is bizarre, but ultimately proves it’s own irrelevance. It’s depressing that for the rest of my life, they’re going to be claiming credit for every victory the rest of us win, but that’s fairly minor in the grand scheme of things.

  118. 118
    Mnemosyne says:


    That’s why they’re mad: the recent primaries showed, once again, that they do a lot of trash talk but have very little actual success to show for it.

  119. 119
    Brachiator says:


    RE: Sexy Jeff Goldblum

    There’s also stuff like this…

    Silver Fox Jeff Goldblum Reading Thirsty Tweets About Himself Is Sexy AF

    “The word daddy is for Jeff Goldblum and him alone.”


  120. 120
    japa21 says:

    @Mnemosyne: Unfortunately, all that shows is they are being cheated out of winning and therefore they will screw it up for everybody by voting for anybody but a Democrat.

  121. 121
    chris says:


    digging up old grievances about Trudeau’s father.

    They’ve been doing that since 13 year old me shook Pierre’s hand in Montreal in 1967. I squeaked out, “Bonne chance.” He looked at me and said, “Thank you.” The man had real charisma.

    The surprise is that the leader of the national Conservative party and Doug “little trump” Frod are backing Justin. As I said in an earlier thread, in Canada the dairy lobby fucks with you!

  122. 122
    MomSense says:

    How the hell is agent orange going to negotiate denuclearization of the Korean Penninsula when he couldn’t even show up on time or stay to the end of a summit with out closest allies?

    He made an ass of himself at the G7 and now some of the stupid pundits are saying about the Singapore meeting, “if this goes well…”

    If this goes well? Seriously? Trump is disconnected from reality and told the whole world he doesn’t have to prepare. This can’t possibly go well.

    Oh and now our executive branch talking points are Nazi dog whistling. This is just fucking fantastic.

  123. 123
    debbie says:


    Are we sure Trudeau knew the history of that building?

  124. 124
    Corner Stone says:

    @debbie: Oh, yeah. That was master level shit right there. I didn’t know DougJ had taken a spot on Trudeau’s admin but that was high class work.

  125. 125
    Jay says:

    @MomSense: @debbie:

    Everybody in Canada knows the history of that building,

    And on Faux and Fiends this am they referenced the Singapore meeting as “the meeting of two dictators”.

  126. 126
    patrick II says:

    My opinion of Trump has gone from Russian useful idiot to functionally a Russian agent to Fellow Traveler. Not mutually exclusive, just the emphasis has changed.

  127. 127
    debbie says:


    That Fox and Friends reference is being reported as a slip-up. A Freudian slip-up.

  128. 128
  129. 129
    Corner Stone says:

    I don’t know why this is always left to me. I’m not even from new jersey.
    “Stabbed in the back!
    And you’re to blame!
    Kudlow, you give cocaine
    A bad name
    Bad name”

  130. 130
    SFAW says:


    You probably should have asked a woman before declaring that Jeff Goldblum is not sexy. Many of us disagree with you, as do some gay men.

    Am I gonna have to mansplain to you what is and is not sexy?

    OK, here goes:
    The opposite of me

  131. 131
    Baud says:

    @Mnemosyne: It still sucks when they are someone you considered a friend.

  132. 132
    bluefish says:

    @MomSense: Lord! Thank you for making me laugh and smile. I feel so damn angry and depressed today about this oh so very obvious treason taking place in front of the eyes every day, since the beginning (and before that) of this long national nightmare. What you said is spot on, and dead serious, but for whatever reason I laughed and boy oh boy oh boy did it feel good. I’ve been writing my congressguy to say, hey, when do you all get to the stage of calling this caca out for real? Surely, I’m not alone, batting of eyelashes, am I now, big boy, in perceiving clearly what’s been happening here? Time to truly press these folks to do their jobs — under the old Constitution and whatever, you know — Because, hey, 4th of July festivities just around the frakking corner. And what’s happening here has been pretty evident for quite some time. When is it time?

    So, yeah, thank goodness for laughter if only of gallows variety.

    Thanks, Prof. Rofer, for doing what you did. Not an easy thing to do — to point to what is front of our faces! — and I very much appreciate it and hope it gets ever more viral.

  133. 133
    Peale says:

    Yeah. I’m still wondering what the “stab in the back” was about what Trudeau did. I think the candidate Trump spent so much time pointing out that Mexico was cheating and should be punished and pushed out of NAFTA that they forgot that Canada didn’t have to automatically join the white people’s club and had its own interests that didn’t include NAFTA – 1. Trudeau was supposed to be begging to kick Mexico out, but they aren’t. I think that’s the betrayal. If the negotiations were anything like what happened with the Chinese, I’m sure Navarro is making an ass out of himself with lists of demands but nothing that would make anyone agree. From what I can tell, the “small” ask for Canada is to completely reorganize their agricultural policies so that they can avoid U.S. consumers paying more for imported aluminum. They might as well ask Trudeau to commit suicide or demand that he replace the Canadian healthcare system with a high cost US system.

  134. 134
    Duane says:

    @Marcopolo: Turning the worthless Missouri soil into profit is a nice acheivement. Southwest Missouri has so many dairy farms because this rocky red clay soil won’t support crop farming of any scale.

  135. 135
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    some great responses to this tweet, but this one and this one, that I can’t cut and paste, are my favorites

    Jeff Flake @ JeffFlake
    Fellow Republicans, this is not who we are. This cannot be our party.

    Dan Pfeiffer Retweeted Jeff Flake

  136. 136
    Hugely says:

    @James Powell: yep the guy who served in combat (and had commendations for it) vs the party boy who went AWOL from an ANG unit. Rather fucking orwellian tbh.

  137. 137
    Jager says:

    @SFAW: A friend of mine is in the sports equipment business, he says lacrosse is the fastest growing sport in the US…another stab in the back by that evil fucking Justiin

  138. 138
    Schlemazel says:

    Here is the thing. It just does not matter. The shit heads will remember that Trudeau disses Dump and the good ol USofA because they heard it from two different sources on Fox (probably reinforced on radio by a host of inflamed assholes working the rubes) so it is a FACT. History, reality, these are fungible concepts to the shit heads until they are told what to believe and then it is set in stone until they are told otherwise.

  139. 139
    Duane says:

    @SFAW: Show some respect. Trump is the Commander of Cheese you know.

  140. 140
    Immanentize says:

    @SFAW: Are you Jeff Goldblum?

  141. 141
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @sp98: That’s what I learned in my German history course taught by Gordon Craig. The stabbed-in-the-back claim was used to claim the German military was not defeated militarily by enemies. They lost because socialists and other traitorous German groups worked against their own country.

    Many of us remember when a similar argument was used against those who opposed the Vietnam War. US war critics were preventing US military success, it was claimed.

  142. 142
    Corner Stone says:

    If possible, I may hate Jeff Flake and Bob Corker as much as I do Trump.

  143. 143
    Immanentize says:

    @Schlemazel: I think hating on Canada may be a bridge too far for many. Especially the northern plank older folks.

  144. 144
    Schlemazel says:

    Are you willing to bet actual money on that? I wouldn’t not even with odds

    The shit heads will believe the sky is green once they are told it is

  145. 145
    MomSense says:


    Sometimes I find myself laughing about the bleakest things and it does feel good.

    I flipped through the channels and the CNN anchor was asking Rep. Swalwell what would make this meeting a success. I don’t know how he held it together. The first thing that popped into my head was that I’d settle for a habitable Seattle and Seoul at its conclusion.

  146. 146
    Immanentize says:

    After I wrote that I said, hmmm.

    You may be right — it will be a huge test. From my upstate New York farmer relatives, who lean a littleTrump (I call them loyal Civil War Republicans) they think this shit with Canada is crazy.

  147. 147
    Jay says:


    Nope, Treason Tribble’s base will be fine with that.

    A Forum I quit because of the swarm of hateraide Трамп’s trolls were spewing, started attacking Canada over Syrian refugees.

  148. 148
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Brinkley Paiste:

    Do you know that it’s extremely likely that voter suppression likely cost her the states she needed to win by a few thousand votes, right?

    Oh and your “we democrats” gives you away.

  149. 149
    SFAW says:


    Are you Jeff Goldblum?

    Apparently not.

  150. 150
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Duane: And the attack on the democratic senator from a southern state who was so badly wounded in Vietnam. (?Max Cleland?).

  151. 151
    SFAW says:


    another stab in the back by that evil fucking Justiin

    Not a big problem.

    Now, if Lyle Thompson were granted asylum Up North, THAT would be bad.

  152. 152
    SFAW says:


    ?Max Cleland?

    Yes. Saxby Chambliss was the motherfucker who pulled that. Of course, his shit pales in comparison to what Shitgibbon would have said.

  153. 153
    Corner Stone says:


    And the attack on the democratic senator from a southern state who was so badly wounded in Vietnam. (?Max Cleland?).

    Brought to you by one of the blog’s favorite Never Trumpers, Rick Wilson. Who, to this very day has never apologized for it and continues to push for R candidates for House, Senate and statewide races in FL.

    The trail led to a conservative Tallahassee-based media consultant named Rick Wilson. Wilson has produced a number of political TV ads for Republican and conservative causes. One of his most controversial projects was the 2002 spot that flashed a picture of Osama bin Laden and questioned the patriotism of Georgia Democratic Sen. Max Cleland, a decorated veteran who lost both legs and an arm in Vietnam. Cleland was defeated in his bid for reelection. [Editor’s Note 9/25/09: Some Republicans have said that the ad did not question Cleland’s patriotism but only his voting record.]

  154. 154
    MagdaInBlack says:

    Jeff Goldblum is a creeper.
    That is all.

  155. 155
    Jay says:


    There’s a movement out there to see if Colin Kaepernick and the CFL eggball teams would be willing to marry.

  156. 156
    burnspbesq says:


    I don’t think Lyle needs asylum. He’s mostly Mohawk, and there are communities on both sides of our silly, artificial border.

    If they kidnap Tom Schreiber, that’s causus belli.

  157. 157
    YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S) says:


    what is and is not sexy?

    OK, here goes:
    The opposite of me

    Schrodinger’s sexy?

  158. 158
    MomSense says:


    I learned something today that left me shocked and puzzled. Apparently Nick Cage was the first choice to play Aragorn in LOTR. Thank dog he had a scheduling conflict.

  159. 159

    My neighbor and my husband are going berserk planting trees in the front yard. So far they have planted 3 maples and 3 oaks.

  160. 160
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Corner Stone: yeah, that’s bullshit, Mr. Editor. I was here in Georgia and doing low level volunteer work for Cleland, and the disgusting republicans used the Karl Rove method of attacking his strength: he was a war hero/triple amputee being challenged by a draft dodger. It was the most vile campaign I had ever seen.

  161. 161
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Wisconsin has more dairy cows just in the one state than Canada has in the entire country. This is not a monetarily significant tariff. Don’t know why Trump has latched on to it like a dog on a bone.

  162. 162
    Dmbeaster says:

    @sp98: Yes. Ludendorf stabbed the politicians in the back. He insisted all was lost militarily and they must sue for peace, and then lied about it afterwards.

  163. 163
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: it was established yesterday that trump is crazy and that he’s a moron. The answer to your question lies within that.

  164. 164
    suilebhan says:

    Thank you, thank you, thank you. When I saw that “stab in the back” crap the first thing that came to mind was Nazi propaganda. What’s next – comparing the North Atlantic Treaty to the Treaty of Versaille? Is President ManBaby going to revivify the Warsaw Pact and join it? I could never have imagined that any American President could so disgracefully turn his back on the most successful alliance in history, and so cravenly do the bidding of Vladimir The Terrible Putin.

  165. 165
    Jay says:


    Marketing Boards to regulate supply, price and demand are “evil socialism”, doncha know?

  166. 166
    Jager says:

    I’m sure those border town all along the northern tier will be mothballing those “Welcome Canadians” flags and signs. D! hockey schools will have to do extreme vetting of Canadian players and my Canadian buddy Jimmy will have to be very careful when he shows at the border to drive to his 2nd home in Palm Desert and Jimmy better not try to take his US born grand kids across the border for a family reunion with their Canadian cousins.

  167. 167
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    it was established yesterday that trump is crazy and that he’s a moron

    Only yesterday?

  168. 168
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @Corner Stone: I like that you’re keeping the receipts !

  169. 169
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Hunter Gathers: Herrenvoelkischer Beobachter, here we come!

  170. 170
    Mnemosyne says:


    As we all know by now, Trump Rules state that the US has to be allowed to impose tariffs on every other country while every other country has to free trade with us because anything else is unfaaaaaaaaaiiiiiirrrrrr.

  171. 171
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: we were proceeding with abundance of caution.

  172. 172
    Schlemazel says:

    @Corner Stone:
    It is not that they disagree it is that the do not want the shit said out loud

  173. 173
    SFAW says:


    Wisconsin has more dairy cows just in the one state than Canada has people in the entire country.


  174. 174
    Frances Perkins says:

    We have just returned from seeing the movie “Pope Francis: A Man of his Word.” In these dark times, it was especially moving and inspiring. It was not so much about religion as about how we all have a duty to care for each other. Highly recommended.

  175. 175
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @sp98: True so far as it goes… but If you go farther you realize that the evil Ludendorff effectively forced the Kaiser to abdicate by telling him the Reichsheer could no longer fight & then arranged to put the responsibility for picking up the pieces into the hands of the Social Democrats in the Reichstag, who then had to sign the Versailles Diktat & were saddled with the blame for the Dolchstoss – and a significant number of the Social Democrats were Jews, QED.

    One of the strange ironies of WW1 is that the commanding officer who recommended Hitler for one of his Eisenkreuzers was a. Jew. Probably why the original Nuremberg Laws exempted Jews who had served at the front during the war from most of the anti-Jewish clauses. (FTR that didn’t last long. The exemptions, I mean.)

  176. 176
    Jager says:

    My good BIL travels internationally selling American commodities, He has been everywhere, his passport looks like a phone book, everywhere from Europe to Kazakhstan, China, Ethiopia, name a country, he’s been there. Last year he and my sis took a driving vacation, from Glacier Nat Park, they drove to Waterton Glacier in Canada and on to Banff. They went through Canadian customs in minutes. Coming back, the US Border Patrol questioned him at length about how much he traveled and why. Searched their luggage and went through their car with a fine tooth comb. My sister was so pissed she’s still talking about it. She had traveled to Egypt and Morocco with him and they took her aside and questioned her about that trip.

  177. 177
    James Powell says:


    Don’t know why Trump has latched on to it like a dog on a bone.

    Because the press/media will repeat & amplify it uncritically and his followers will believe it and repeat it.

  178. 178
    chris says:

    @Jay: Drat! I hadn’t seen that but Kenney, the Alberta PC leader, stuck up for JT. I get them confused.

  179. 179
    chris says:

    @chris: Sorry, Jay, didn’t take that from today.

    This G7 meeting shows that united support for free trade is at serious risk. Canada’s Conservatives continue to support the Prime Minister’s efforts to make the case for free trade. Divisive rhetoric and personal attacks from the US administration are clearly unhelpful.— Andrew Scheer (@AndrewScheer) 10 June 2018

  180. 180
    gammyjill says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Stephen Miller is Jewish

  181. 181
    Ohio Mom says:

    @schrodingers_cat: They’d better have a very big yard or that is not going to end well. Those trees are not going to be little forever, and I hope they are planted the right distance from the house — foundations and roots don’t mix well.

    Neighbors: an endless source of amusement.

  182. 182
    Uncle Jeffy says:

    @Mary G: It’ a reflection of Bolton’s state of mind….

  183. 183
    Jay says:


    Scheer’s two faced. This week he will be trashing Trudeau and NAFTA and supporting Трамп and Putin on Faux, like he did last time, along with (spit) Harper.

  184. 184
    chris says:

    @Jay: I was horrified to see Harper on one of the US networks and the best MSNBC could manage was GAG Peter MacKay

  185. 185
    AnotherBruce says:

    @Aleta: Yes, I noticed a Fox concern trolling article on this. Why are the Democrats trying to stop Bernie from running a campaign? The simple answer, of course. is that Bernie is not a Democrat. Who woulda thunk it? Maybe the Democratic Party wants to have Democrats running for office? As for Fox News, I have a hard time believing that The Republican party would allow any Independent to run for any office starting with Dog Catcher, much less at the Federal level.

  186. 186
    NorthLeft12 says:

    This will show even more of the Trump touch which is in fact the opposite of the magic touch. Deadbeat Donald’s and his cohort of swinish and criminally incompetent crackpots smearing of Trudeau will just increase Trudeau’s popularity in Canada, and probably around the world.

    On behalf of most of Canada, Fuck you Donald, Larry, and Peter. Eat shit.
    BTW, sorry to my fellow juicers for the profanity, eh?

  187. 187
    J R in WV says:


    Trees are good. My grandma was planting trees she would never see to grow up when she was in her 80s.

    Do your husband and his minion know how big oak trees get? Maples too, but oaks get to be majestic! It takes a while… do you plan to move? Can’t take them with you!!


  188. 188
    Ruckus says:

    In 1990 a buddy who worked events with me drove his motorhome to WI for an event. I flew in and we worked for 5 days. Then we drove through Canada to Vermont and into New Hampshire for another event the next weekend. Going into Canada they asked us if we had any guns or cigs. He told them that he let someone else not going through Canada carry his gun and that neither of us smoked, which was all true. Took 2 minutes. Had a great time for 3 days. Then we crossed into the US in Vermont. Almost 2 hrs later after they had totally searched the motorhome and hounded us about having over $10,000 in cash which neither of us had to our names let alone in cash on us, they wanted to be our buds and discuss how he liked the motorhome. The Border Patrol only hires assholes, and trains them to be worse. ICE is way downhill from there. At some point you wonder if it’s worth living here at all. And that doesn’t take into account the current pile of shit in the WH.

  189. 189
    Ruckus says:

    Profanity is required just to even mention the shitgibbon.

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