Open Thread: “Normalizing” the Abnormal, A Continuing FTFNYT Series

189 replies
  1. 1
    Corner Stone says:

    I loved it when Nicolle Wallace did that live. Just started laughing and said, “Enough of this bullshit.”

  2. 2
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Apparently things are going to be awkward at the Haberman family Memorial Day picnic!

  3. 3
    Corner Stone says:

    I have seen MAGA Habs getting dragged on a few twit feeds. She has to know what it’s all about. And yet, somehow she continues to try and defend what everyone is dragging her for. Hmmm…

  4. 4
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    if I were more neutral about this than I am, she would have lost me from the start with that “ruining Say Anything for me” bit.

  5. 5
    Corner Stone says:

    It would take two seconds to call a staffer and ask them to find out if someone had actually told reporters that information. The fact that he doesn’t care whether someone actually said it or not is the point, Miss Habs.

  6. 6
    Suzanne says:

    Whether to label all of them lies hinges on whether he knowingly tells untruths or is so perverse he’s can’t tell real from unreal. It’s a pointless exercise. He speaks falsely. Enough said.

    If we call them “lies”, his WT supporters will feel even more offended and judged by the coastal liberal elites, or something.
    So do it.

  7. 7
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Oh, I dunno. Not defending Maggie H, who is just a mendacious piece of poo, but I have to say that it’s going to be a long time before I feel like watching a Susan Sarandon movie again. So, Both Sides Do It!

  8. 8
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Corner Stone: He already knew it. It was reported a long time back that the comms shop does nothing without informing him, running it past him, and getting his direction, as if it was a TV show, on how to do it.

  9. 9
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    Does anyone know any good groups to join to help register voters? I feel like voting every 2-4 years just isn’t enough anymore. I realize I need to be more active than I have been in the past to fight this crap.

  10. 10
    Baud says:

    Trump sure errs an awful lot.

  11. 11
    Mike J says:

    Shouldn’t that be bald faced lies?

  12. 12
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: I hear that Soros guy pays well. I still haven’t received my check though…

  13. 13
    Teddys Person says:

    @Corner Stone: … sometime in the near future she’ll have a book-like product to sell.

  14. 14
    Van Buren says:

    This seems as good a place as any to ask this question : If Trump were caught on tape either seriously discussing, or “joking” about ICE gassing undocumented people they have rounded up, which conservatives would condemn him and which would not?

  15. 15
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Van Buren: Flake. And maybe one of the retiring GOP reps from Pennsylvania. Most likely Denton.

  16. 16
    Suzanne says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: I’ve registered voters with Mi Familia Vota. Bonus points if you’re bilingual. “Registre a votar?”

    Can’t type the upside-down question mark on my iPad. DAMNIT.

  17. 17
    Shana says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: Try your local Democratic Committee – look for (your county name) Democratic Committee. Or League of Women Voters. If neither of them are doing it because of local or state laws they can probably point you in the direction of those who can. You may have to go through a short (couple of hours) training session.

    ETA: I keep voter registration forms in the trunk of my car which I picked up at my county’s voter registration office.

  18. 18
    Suzanne says:

    @Adam L Silverman: But Flake wouldn’t condemn him directly. He’d say some mealy-mouthed shit like “this isn’t what the Republican Party should stand for”.

    Flake is LDS and sooooo many of them are non-confrontational to a fault. That’s one thing that I really appreciated about Harry Reid. He threw off that cultural albatross and leaned all the fucking way in.

  19. 19
    Teddys Person says:

    @Van Buren: I don’t think any would outright condemn him. There would be a lot of whining over the loss of civility in politics and wailing over the perceived crimes of Democrats.

  20. 20
    dmsilev says:

    @Corner Stone: The staffer who held that briefing has been id’d and audio recordings have surfaced. There’s no universe in which Trump’s statement is anything but an outright lie.

  21. 21
    debbie says:

    @Mike J:

    Yes, dammit.

  22. 22
    JMG says:

    I was a Boston sportswriter for 30 years. The first rule of public interaction was that no matter what you wrote, some people would just hate it and abuse you for it. There was nothing you could do about it, so to engage them at all was useless. In ancient baseball argot, Maggie Haberman has a terminal case of rabbit ears. She’d do herself a favor by leaving Twitter.

  23. 23
    daryljfontaine says:

    @Suzanne: ¿Por qué no? (Press and hold the question mark button)

    D (also on iPad)

  24. 24
    Corner Stone says:

    @dmsilev: Certainly. But not every situation is going to have such a dramatic reveal for the public. My point was more that whether he knew beforehand or could have been informed almost instantly if he asked, he doesn’t give a shit what the truth is. So calling the lies a lie is a moral constant for anyone interested in the truth.

  25. 25
    debbie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    No, Clyde. It’s not pointless. Trump intentionally lies every single day. He has done so his entire adult life. The difference now is that millions of people hear (or read) him lying every single day. Not the same as when he would lie during a business deal where the interaction was for a short, defined period, and then move on to a whole new situation with new people where the lying could start all over again.

    The breadth of Trump’s lies boggle the mind. It is ceaseless.

  26. 26
    scav says:

    n”‘?@Suzanne: Ok. I’m searching for anything other to amuse my brain, so I fiddled. On my MrPad, if I go to the symbols keyboard (the one with the single ? button and hold it down, I get the ¿ option I can swipe to.

  27. 27
    Barbara says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: Ditto. Although I think I know which local elections are the most important ones coming up, I feel like it’s hard to get plugged into groups and activities that will make a difference. Plus my knees are shot and I now think canvassing might be a stretch.

  28. 28
    Inventor says:

    “He’s too stupid to lie.”- M.H.

  29. 29
    Corner Stone says:


    Maggie Haberman has a terminal case of rabbit ears. She’d do herself a favor by leaving Twitter.

    She could also try weaning herself off the access drip IV and do some actual truth telling for a change. Some would still hate her for it but it’s a hell of a lot easier to take abuse knowing you did it right. She knows she is not and that’s why she’s flailing and truculent.

  30. 30
    Barbara says:

    @Suzanne: Maybe being associated with professional boxing the way Reid used to be changes one’s normal LDS demeanor.

  31. 31
    Corner Stone says:


    On my MrPad

    I feel like we may have ventured off into a little TMI territory…

  32. 32
    Barbara says:

    @Corner Stone: Honestly, I don’t know what else Haberman would bring to the table without access to Trump. Her twitter profile states (or used to state) first that she is a mom to three great kids, etc. I don’t care whether she profiles herself that way, although I doubt if most professionals would, but ever since I saw that, I had visions of her sitting at her computer after the kids go to bed coming up with articles based on having spoken to a bunch of people by phone. She doesn’t try to verify what they said. She’s maybe one step above a stenographer solely because she is the one who asks the questions before she types up the answers. I don’t read anything she writes any longer. It’s an insult to the concept of news.

  33. 33
    B.B.A. says:

    It’s increasingly obvious that Trump simply has no concept of truth and falsehood. He says whatever he thinks will help him and believes whatever he’s saying in any moment.

    Earlier this week when asked about the First Lady’s health, he motioned to a window and said “she’s doing fine, she’s right there” when she wasn’t there. The man is delusional.

  34. 34
    Mary G says:

    I’ve been fighting with her and Brian Steltzer from CNN. By which I mean yelling at them (and Nick Confessore, who is one of the worst at being all supercilious “you peasants don’t understand stuff) on Twitter and being ignored.

    But FTFNYT, we have more important things to do. AZ Republic has the first picture of how immigrant children are held – just exactly like the dogs in the pound.Go look. I think the dogs have better beds, though.


  35. 35
    Corner Stone says:

    That “Elmo with hell flames behind him GIF” will never get old. (It’s in a thread off Cole’s twit feed)

  36. 36
    chris says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: Here’s one.

    We are teaming up with HeadCount on May 29th for a National High School Voter Registration Day! Sign up at— March For Our Lives (@AMarch4OurLives) 25 May 2018

  37. 37
    MattF says:

    Haberman is spending a huge amount of time and energy making excuses for Trump. May we ask why?

    ETA: And there’s that ‘trashing your own reputation’ thing. Why?

  38. 38
    scav says:

    @Corner Stone: Uh oh. I must have a harem: there’s MrPad, Mr Pod, Mr Pheasant, Mr Box (the laptop), Mr. just about anything to specify the unique one that doesn’t otherwise have a name. Yes, one of those things is not like the others (the genius bar is clueless about why he lost his tail).

  39. 39
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Van Buren: given what we know about Trump and about ICE, I assume at least some of those kids are dead.

  40. 40
    Mary G says:

    @Mary G: Az.central must be getting too many hits. The picture is in this tweet. Look at it and prepare to feel sick to your stomach.

    This is not the America I want and if you agree with me and so many others on this please speak out. We haven’t always lived up to the promise but must keep trying. Despicable.— Pete Spande (@PeteSpande) May 27, 2018

  41. 41
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’m still waiting for my Soros bucks to come in! All the hassle I had to go through to smuggle in some illegal aliens to vote for Hitlery, I deserve compensation!

  42. 42
    patrick II says:

    This is really ruining “Say Anything” for me

    Say Anything the movie, or Say Anything the president? I can see that acknowledging that our president will Say Anything might ruin you, but like Diane, you must face up to the type of person Daddy is.

  43. 43
    Corner Stone says:

    @Barbara: I can’t actually recall reading anything she writes so I guess I’ll agree on her relative value. I was going to make a crack about Farenthold and a Pulitzer but I see MAGA Habs was also credited as part of a team that won one. So…

  44. 44
    sigaba says:

    Haberman has called people on the Clinton campaign liars when she felt theh were insufficiently forthcoming on EMAILS…

  45. 45
    Corner Stone says:

    @patrick II: He wasn’t bad, he just misplaced a few decimal points. He just wanted to pay for college to an elite school! It was The Man that took him down!
    And that huge freaking house for like two people. Damn.

  46. 46
    MattF says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: Smuggling in millions of illegal aliens must have been tiring. And keeping it secret couldn’t have been easy.

  47. 47
    Elizabelle says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: Good advice upstream already about volunteering through your local Democratic office or with League of Women Voters, etc.

    Voteriders ( is all about making sure registered voters have voter ID and/or know their rights. This is huge in helping fight voter suppression. From their mission statement:

    VoteRiders is a national nonpartisan, nonprofit organization that provides practical assistance and information to ensure voters have the right kind of ID to vote in their state. VoteRiders is the leading organization focused exclusively on voter ID.

    In 2018 we are focusing our on-the-ground efforts in Arizona, Florida, Wisconsin and Virginia – and will be expanding to other voter ID states that have high voter interest and competitive Congressional and gubernatorial races. We continue to assist organizations in any state (see our growing list of Partners), given the widespread confusion about voter ID. Some states’ voter ID laws leave the decision about whether a citizen’s vote will count to the discretion of DMV employees or poll workers, and others require documentary proof of citizenship to even register to vote.

    Read more about how voter ID laws disenfranchise millions of eligible voters. In addition to people who lack acceptable ID to vote, confusion and intimidation serve to prevent millions more eligible voters from voting, even if they have a valid ID in their state. Our Voter ID Helpline (844-33-VTRID) receives as many calls from people in non-voter ID states as from those in states that require or request ID at the polls! Even poll workers are confused and sometimes ask voters for proof of ID when none is required.

    And, of course, I first learned about Voteriders from some fellow jackal a few months ago.

  48. 48
    JMG says:

    I didn’t care about criticism by the public because it was sports. In the final analysis, as long as I didn’t make factual errors or treated people unfairly (sometimes mean is fair), the critic’s opinion was as good as mine so I didn’t mind being called out. The Times political reporters believe with all their hearts that what they do is supremely important. Their universal defensiveness and dissuasiveness of criticism speaks to me of guilty consciences.

  49. 49
    maya says:

    A good, albeit, long, article about what the NYT and Maggie Haberman do and why they do it:

  50. 50
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Mary G:
    21st century concentration camp. Reminds me of the scene in Fear the Walking Dead’s second season where a bunch of people who are believed to be infected by the zombie virus are being held in a facility a lot like the one in the pictures in your link, chain-link fences and all.

  51. 51
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah. That was petty as hell. She’s annoying.

  52. 52
    Starfish says:

    Here is a link to the tweet containing the recording of a Trump staffer saying what Trump claims no Trump staffer said.

  53. 53
    jayjaybear says:

    @MattF: MAGA Habs is writing a book about the Trump campaign and admin. We found this out when Wolff’s tell-all stole a march on her and she and the FTMFNYT had a shitfit that Wolff both got access and got to printing before they did. She’s trying to manage the trajectory of Trump’s presidential arc so that it hasn’t flamed out and cratered before her book is available.

  54. 54
    Steeplejack says:

    Boldface lies”?! That should be “bald-faced lies.”

    You can bet I sent Nicolle a pretty sternly worded letter about this, let me tell you.

    Also, The Hill, why do I need a video that looks like it’s going to be Nicolle Wallace saying whatever it is she’s going to say, but, no, it’s your monotoned reporter (intern?) describing/​quoting what she said. Skip that and let me get to her actual video.

    ETA: And, hey, everybody, it’s Nicolle Wallace, not Nicole.

  55. 55
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    Not as hard as you’d think. I had help from the CBP, FBI, and the CIA. I even got to personally speak with Obama and Clinton, thanking me for my efforts.

  56. 56
    Corner Stone says:

    Well, at least we know it was all worth it. Link to NY Daily News:(I quoted the main thrust of the article if you don’t wanna leave the boat)
    China approves five new trademarks for Ivanka Trump business

    China approved five new trademarks for First Daughter Ivanka Trump’s business earlier this month — around the same time that President Trump said he would try to provide a job boost to the Chinese telecommunications company ZTE.

    The trademarks were applied for in March of 2017, according to the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. The trademarks give the White House adviser’s company rights for bath mats, textiles and baby blankets, according to CREW.

    An additional trademark for Ivanka Trump Marks LLC was given trial approval.

    Ivanka Trump received the registration approval on May 7. Her father tweeted on May 13″

  57. 57
    Steeplejack says:

    @Corner Stone:

    She’s got her eyes fixed firmly on the prize: the book deal for her eventual mega-bestseller Inside the Bunker: Rise and Fall of the Trump Reich.

  58. 58
    MattF says:

    @Corner Stone: How entrepreneurial of her!

  59. 59
    The Midnight Lurker says:

    Maggie Haberman has ruined the New York Times for me. No, wait… that was Mareen Dowd. No, I meant Tom Friedman… actually it was David Brooks. Now that I think about it it was Ross Doubtthat.

  60. 60
    Mary G says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: I know some poster is writing a piece on it right now, but I am itching to do something. People are setting up marches, but I want to go there now and demand they release the kids this minute. Ivanka tweeted one of her soft-focus-so-the-fine-lines-don’t show pictures with her youngest and I let her have it. Probably get suspended.

  61. 61
    Steeplejack says:


    Doesn’t it show up if you press and hold the regular question mark? That’s what my Android phone and tablet do.

  62. 62
    Elizabelle says:

    @maya: Great article.

    I am good with calling her Maggie Duranty.

  63. 63
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Suzanne: @Shana: @chris:

    All very good advice. I’ll probably check out the local Democratic office/LOWV and Voteriders. My state is a voter ID state and I think my time would served trying to fight that.

  64. 64
    ascap_scab says:

    @Mary G:
    Call it what it is: Trump’s Dachau!!

  65. 65
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Axios link, and courtier-supreme Jonathan Swan at that (worse than the NYT, IMHO, YMMV, IDGAF), but this is pretty funny

    What happened: The president told Sadler she wouldn’t be fired for her remark. He added, separately in the conversation, that he’s no fan of McCain. Then Trump, who had grown obsessed with the leaking problem, told Sadler he wanted to know who the leakers were. Sadler then stunned the room: To be completely honest, she said, she thought one of the worst leakers was Schlapp, her boss.

  66. 66
    Steeplejack says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Gimme a hint. I don’t want to explore every forking path of Cole’s tweet flow.

  67. 67
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Patricia Kayden: also the best Cusack movie is The Grifters.

    Don’t “at” me, as the youths say.

  68. 68
    Corner Stone says:

    @Steeplejack: It looks like maybe she deleted it? It now says tweet does not exist. But If it does and you clicked on it, the GIF was a few down in the thread.

    Jena Friedman
    ‏Verified account @JenaFriedman
    60m60 minutes ago

    Jena Friedman Retweeted Kim Kardashian West

    He’s a brilliant artist I opened for once in Chicago. You fucked someone on camera and married up.

  69. 69
    donnah says:

    @Mary G:

    The ICE teams are terrible, that’s true. But that photo is from 2014 and those are South American children being detained in Arizona.

    And yes, it is despicable because it’s happening and Trump and his people sanction it.

  70. 70
    PIGL says:

    @Van Buren: none of them, Katie.

  71. 71
    Hoodie says:

    So is Haberman taking the George Constanza position?

  72. 72
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    When this is all over, Haberhack needs to walk around New York with her head shaved and a big sign around her neck: “Collaborator and Normalizer.”

  73. 73
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @The Midnight Lurker: All of them are on the tumbrel manifest in indelible ink.

  74. 74
    Gex says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: Maybe check to see if that’s what you’re looking for.

  75. 75
    chris says:

    OT Eye bleach from Reddit.

    What? I’m just cleaning my owl.

  76. 76
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @sigaba: because she’s a partisan lying hack. Don’t expect anything else from her.

  77. 77
    Barbara says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well, okay, I guess Sadler won’t be around for long. Seriously, it’s starting to sound like the sessions in which Mao forced Chinese workers to denounce each other.

  78. 78
    Steeplejack says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    That one’s good, but I’m kind of partial to Grosse Pointe Blank.

  79. 79
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    What makes this worse is, AFAIK, Obama didn’t lose 1500 undocumented children on his watch

  80. 80
    Steeplejack says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Thanks, I’ll make a fruitless and ultimately enraging attempt to find it.

  81. 81
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    also, from Betty Cracker in the thread below:

    Joan Walsh said on Twitter that Twitler is definitely referring to Hope Hicks in the above tweet and that she is no longer taking his calls and instead refers him to her lawyer. Hope that’s true.

    sounds like young Ms Hicks has hired some good lawyers*, and just maybe one of of Meuller’s lawyers explained in detail how obstruction of justice works. And maybe conspiracy? IANAL, but that shit that went down trying to clean up Junior’s mess from AF1 (but he wasn’t acting as President!) sure as hell sounds like one or the other.

    * were there stories a few weeks back that she was one of the people getting her bills paid by the RNC, or the trump campaign? the political news is like a swirling cloud of bullshit and garbage and twitter rumors

  82. 82
    Yutsano says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Her parents are fairly well off attorneys (I think) in Connecticut, so it’s my understanding they’re helping her out.

  83. 83
    Steeplejack says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Okay, I just Googled “gif Elmo hellfire.” Is this close enough?

  84. 84
    Yarrow says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    given what we know about Trump and about ICE, I assume at least some of those kids are dead.

    Given what we know about Trump, it’s very likely at least some of those kids are sex trafficked.

  85. 85
  86. 86
    Brachiator says:

    @Mike J:
    RE: Shouldn’t that be bald faced lies?

    Either is correct. And the original phrase was probably “barefaced lie.”

    Most sources agree that the original expression, coined in the late 1600s, was actually barefaced lie. At that time, bare meant brazen or bold. At that time in history, almost all men sported a full set of whiskers, and it was considered quite daring or even audacious for a male to be clean-shaven, or barefaced. Eventually, the word for “hairless” went from bare to bald, and so did the description of a blatant fib.

  87. 87
    germy says:

    I love how rudi is so senile he admits the whole thing is bullshit.

    Giuliani Admits ‘Spygate’ Is PR in Anticipation of Impeachment

    Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani confirmed on Sunday that the president and his allies’ attempts to discredit the Mueller investigation — including the most recent so-called ‘Spygate’ controversy — are part of a public relations campaign aimed at staving off impeachment. “It is for public opinion,” the former New York mayor admitted during an appearance on CNN’s State of the Union. And while trying to shape public opinion is the rarely acknowledged goal of any presidential administration, what Giuliani said next was unique to Trump’s: “Because eventually the decision here is going to be impeach or not impeach.”


  88. 88
    JPL says:

    This tweet is from Jon Favreau in reference to the AZ Central pictures

    These awful pictures are from 2014, when the government’s challenge was reconnecting unaccompanied minors who showed up at the border with family or a safe sponsor.
    Today, in 2018, the government is CREATING unaccompanied minors by tearing them away from family at the border.

  89. 89
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yeah, how disgusting is that? Who gives a s–t what you think about Say Anything?

  90. 90
    Sab says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: There is an active group starting up in Akron. Sherrod Brown’s campaign might know if there is one in Youngstown.

  91. 91
    maeve says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    if I were more neutral about this than I am, she would have lost me from the start with that “ruining Say Anything for me” bit.

    Truth. plus Say Anything is ulitimately forgettable – its not like High Fidelity, or Gross Pointe Blank, or Being John Malcovich, or ….

  92. 92
    cain says:

    So apparently that report about ICE ripping kids away from parents have been going on since 2009 according to the ACLU report. This means that even Obama didn’t stop it. We need to make sure that we hold our side into making sure that this happen. As far as I’m concerned Obama is just as culplable. When it comes to children, we need to set tribalism side and fix the problem. That problem is that ICE needs to be dismantled!

    Links seems to be broken – click this –

  93. 93
    Mike in NC says:

    Raining again here in soggy central Florida. We fly home from Jacksonville on Thursday and there seems to be no break in sight.

  94. 94
    Brachiator says:

    Wow. Haberman tries to be a Mean Girl with her “Say Anything” diss, but just makes herself look stupid.

    She also seems to think that confirming that Trump is both ignorant and a liar is some kind of vindication.

    She also seems to think that her job is not to report on Trump, but to defend him. And apparently, this is OK with her editors.

  95. 95
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @maeve: hear hear and I can’t believe I forgot about Being John Malkovich!

  96. 96
    Ruckus says:


    The man is delusional.

    True and obvious.

  97. 97
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Big Media reporters are as antsy about saying “lie” as Hogwarts is about saying “Voldemort.”

  98. 98
    Amir Khalid says:

    Every time Rudy G goes on TV, he blunders into an admission of Trump’s guilt. Mueller is taking notes. Der Müller Gottes mahlt langsam, mahlt aber außerordentlich klein.

  99. 99
    But her emails!! says:


    So apparently that report about ICE ripping kids away from parents have been going on since 2009 according to the ACLU report. This means that even Obama didn’t stop it. We need to make sure that we hold our side into making sure that this happen. As far as I’m concerned Obama is just as culplable. When it comes to children, we need to set tribalism side and fix the problem. That problem is that ICE needs to be dismantled!

    This has probably been going on since ICE was created and it should be stopped all together. Having said that, what is happening under Trump is an order of magnitude larger than what happened under Bush and Obama due to Trumps policies. It’s not the fucking same thing.

  100. 100
    Yarrow says:

    @maeve: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: All of those are good. Sleeper favorite of mine is Pushing Tin.

  101. 101
    Steeplejack says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Thanks for your follow-through. Pretty much what I found on the Google.

  102. 102
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Joan Walsh @ joanwalsh
    I think this is about Hopey, who is refusing to take his calls and referring him to her lawyer.

    no confirmation from Joan Walsh on this being much more than gossip , but a couple of funny images in the replies

  103. 103
    germy says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Every time Rudy G goes on TV, he blunders into an admission

    I know, I love it. He can’t seem to help himself. And Avenatti’s been mocking the hell out of him on twitter.

    DJT promised the American people the “best and the brightest” and delivered…Dazed & Confused Giuliani. Ignorant of the facts. Doesn’t know the law. Hasn’t tried a case this century. He’s a glorified puppet with zero credibility. And a complete joke. #Basta— Michael Avenatti (@MichaelAvenatti) May 27, 2018

    Dazed & Confused Giuliani and Mr. Trump’s fabricated “spygate” will be the ruse they use to deceive the American people and shut down the Mueller investigation. But WE are not going away. And WE will not be shut down. Ever. #BuckleUp #LongHaul #Basta— Michael Avenatti (@MichaelAvenatti) May 27, 2018

  104. 104
    Ruckus says:

    The possibilities are endless and stupid.
    The second part explains why she’s doing this in the first place.
    Haberman can’t connect government policy with bad outcomes, because she can’t put anyone she knows in the crosshairs of the policy. IOW she’s a conservative. The policy can’t be bad because it doesn’t negatively affect her tribe. For her the bigger picture is only what she can see. And her mind is closed to anything outside her range of vision.

  105. 105
    germy says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Every time Rudy G goes on TV, he blunders into an admission

    I know, I love it. He can’t seem to help himself. And Avenatti’s been mocking the hell out of him on twitter.

    DJT promised the American people the “best and the brightest” and delivered…Dazed & Confused Giuliani. Ignorant of the facts. Doesn’t know the law. Hasn’t tried a case this century. He’s a glorified puppet with zero credibility. And a complete joke. #Basta
    — Michael Avenatti (@MichaelAvenatti) May 27, 2018

    Dazed & Confused Giuliani and Mr. Trump’s fabricated “spygate” will be the ruse they use to deceive the American people and shut down the Mueller investigation. But WE are not going away. And WE will not be shut down. Ever. #BuckleUp #LongHaul #Basta
    — Michael Avenatti (@MichaelAvenatti) May 27, 2018

  106. 106
    Amir Khalid says:

    In fairness to them, calling someone a liar in print is pretty much inviting them to sue your paper — and you personally, too — for very big bucks in libel damages. And defending a libel action can be ruinously expensive even if you win.

  107. 107
  108. 108
    Yarrow says:

    @MomSense: How are you feeling?

  109. 109
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Can’t type the upside-down question mark on my iPad. DAMNIT.

    You should be able to, just by holding the regular ? question mark key for an extra second until the ¿ upside-down one pops up for you to select.

  110. 110
    Corner Stone says:

    @Amir Khalid: That would be like it starting to rain chocolates and candy if Trump tried to sue for being called a liar. He’s the ultimate public figure and the NYT has resources to burn.

  111. 111
    Tokyokie says:

    It occurred to me today that in a parliamentary democracy, were the ruling party lose 1500 children, it would give rise to a confidence vote, followed by the dissolution of Parliament and snap elections. But in this country, losing 1500 children isn’t even the top story of any given day, and the ruling party’s staunchest supporters, who define themselves by their professed religiosity, when offered a choice, didn’t merely choose explicit evil, they have enthusiastically embraced it. But hey, they can recite talking points about Boko Haram without recognizing their own support for losing 1500 children.

  112. 112
  113. 113
    germy says:

    John Lewis said Trump was an illegitimate President from the beginning.
    — Matt Murphy (@MattMurph24) May 27, 2018

  114. 114
    JPL says:

    @But her emails!!: Thanks for your comment, because it wasn’t the same thing. Family detention centers have been used by Papa Bush, Clinton, GW and Obama. There were times when that was not possible.
    Most of the separations under Obama were unaccompanied teenagers, not a one year old.

  115. 115
    Corner Stone says:

    @Steeplejack: I find Google to be virtually useless these last few months. I set my default to Duck Duck Go not long ago. It’s been an adjustment for the interface but not too bad so far.

  116. 116
    germy says:

    "Trump's 'phony' source turns out to be a real White House official"— Matt Lee (@APDiploWriter) May 26, 2018

    …and his "witch hunt" turned out to be a FBI investigation and his "embedded spy" turned out to be a Republican FBI asset and his "billion dollar family business" turned out to be a money laundering front and his "election win" turned out to be a Russian intelligence operation.— Polly Sigh (@dcpoll) May 27, 2018

  117. 117
    Elizabelle says:

    I do not know how to link Twitter, but Chrissie Teigen had some prime words for Maggie Duranty:

    The Wrap blog: Chrissy Teigen Calls Out NY Times’ Maggie Haberman Over Trump ‘Demonstrable Falsehoods’ Tweet

    Chrissy Teigen had a bit of advice for New York Times White House correspondent Maggie Haberman on Saturday: If you call a lie a lie, it not only gets to the meat of the matter, but it frees up valuable space in your tweets.

    Teigen took a little time out of her Saturday morning to call out Haberman, after the Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist detailed what she felt were two “demonstrable falsehoods” told by President Trump.

    “Trump told two demonstrable falsehoods this AM, one about his administration’s policy of separating undocumented immigrant kids inclu infants from their parents, which he tried to claim wasn’t his own policy,” Haberman tweeted. “The other was falsely claiming his own aide didn’t give a bg briefing.”

    Teigen quickly stepped in to inform Haberman that brevity is the soul of Twitter efficiency.

    “If you said ‘lies’ instead of ‘demonstrable falsehoods’ (although I applaud this blend of simultaneous trump ass kissing and Twitter trolling) you could have spelled out both ‘morning’ and ‘including’ – sorry, making the best of character usage is one of my passions,” Teigen wrote. “Now I’m out.”

    But Teigen wasn’t out quite yet. She went on to explain why she feels the press is reluctant to directly call Trump a liar.

    “Access. It is quite the conundrum. Be able to be in the same room as someone as fragile as our man child leader OR call him out on his s— and never be invited back,” Teigen wrote. “The problem stems from the fact our president is an adult baby with a constant wet poo in his pants.”

    I kinda wish Teigen had stopped before adding the poo sentence, because it takes away from the previous 3 sentences.

  118. 118
    MomSense says:


    I’m ok. This is taking longer than I thought. Thank you for asking.

  119. 119
    Elizabelle says:

    @germy: I do think Trump is an illegitimate president. John Lewis is very likely correct there.

    And it will be incredible to see how the US wrestles with that fact. Screw the folks who say “it will be left to historians” or “no way we can know.”

  120. 120
    Baud says:



  121. 121
    Elizabelle says:

    @MomSense: Feel free to tell me to put a sock in it, but did you ever tell us what the health issue is?

    Anyway, I am glad you are here and wish you a comfortable and speedy full recovery.

  122. 122
    germy says:

    Meanwhile, Ms. Manning is saying “voting won’t change anything”

    Step 1: Announce you're running in a primary against a well-liked incumbent. People are rightly skeptical.

    Step 2: Do absolutely no work to make in-roads (while partying with actual Nazis)

    — Centrism Fan Acct 🔹 (@Wilson__Valdez) May 27, 2018

  123. 123
    Baud says:


    She’s full of solutions, that one.

  124. 124
    germy says:

    Did CNN really invite Nina Turner on a Sunday panel to discuss missing kids after Politico's report stating she fired a DACA activist— Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha) May 27, 2018

  125. 125
    germy says:

    The @CNN 2018 strategy: Only allow Nina Turner and Bernie Sanders to speak for Democrats, because @CNN knows that will make the Dems look like a kooky fringe party that can't be trusted with power.— Allan Brauer (@allanbrauer) May 27, 2018

  126. 126
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Corner Stone:
    Trump can’t hire a decent lawyer now at any price, which is why he’s stuck with Rudy G, and that may well keep him from suing anyone for libel. But I stand by my statement that news organisations and the journalists (and the Maggie Habermans) they employ are very risk-averse about using the epithet “liar”.

  127. 127
    Tokyokie says:


    Big Media reporters are as antsy about saying “lie” as Hogwarts is about saying “Voldemort.”

    One of my bugaboos back when I was a newspaper copy editor (not sure those even exist any longer), was the use of “toxin” as a synonym for “poison.” My take was always that “poison” was too harsh of a word, so reporters used “toxin” instead. Except a toxin is a harmful substance produced by the natural biological functions of a living organism, and a poison is a harmful substance that can cause severe illness or death. Snake venom is a toxin, but the lead in Flint’s drinking water is a poison.

    And calling the lead in Flint’s drinking water by the less inflammatory term will not restore the cognitive function of Flint’s brain-damaged children.

  128. 128
    Steeplejack says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Thank you for your needlessly obscure German. Also, shouldn’t it be Mühle instead of Müller? Asking for a Nazi.

    But I guess you’re making a play on Mueller’s name.

  129. 129
    Yarrow says:

    @Corner Stone: Last I heard, DuckDuckGo was partnered with Yandex. Do not trust.

  130. 130
    germy says:

    I love the replies she’s getting to this:

    voting wont change anything – protesting with chants and signs and holding hands isnt gonna change anything either – we need more than that – we cant wait anymore – we need something radically different and we cant just ask for it or expect it to happen somehow— Chelsea E. Manning (@xychelsea) May 23, 2018

  131. 131
    Yarrow says:

    @MomSense: Perhaps it’s the type of anesthesia used. I had very minor surgery once with what they told me was supposed to be a very light anesthesia. Said I’d be fine to do anything including driving two days later. I was a mess. I tried to drive two days later. Got to the end of the driveway and went back because I didn’t feel safe. It took a week before I felt safe driving a car and longer for my energy to return. Glad you’re recovering.

  132. 132
    Lapassionara says:

    Has Alain been tinkering with the site again? It has a snazzy new look.

    Something I learned from Twitter today. Some department of the US has a web page explaining the rules governing obtaining asylum in the US, who is eligible and what to do. People who think they fit the criteria for asylum are to present themselves at the border with their families and ask for asylum.

    In other words, asylum seekers are not “breaking the law,” but taking advantage of what they understand US law to be.

    Friends of mine in the Austin area have been increasingly alarmed about the way ICE has been treating asylum seekers since Trump took office. I am not sure what policies were in effect for asylum seekers in the Obama administration, but this is a new and troubling development.

  133. 133
    Steeplejack says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I took your point from when you posted recently, and I have noticed some disturbance in the force recently when specifically searching on Balloon Juice, but it hasn’t become a deal-breaker for me yet.

  134. 134
    Mary G says:

    @donnah: Thanks for letting me know. I am going to Lowe’s for garden supplies, now that my postcards are done.

  135. 135
    mozzerb says:

    @Tokyokie: Or maybe “toxin” just sounds more technical than “poison”, and gives what you write an air of apparent expertise?

  136. 136
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @germy: Ah yes, “We need A Thing and then the times will be better,” a suggestion widely embraced by nitwits and nincompoops. And asking “what sort of Thing?” is always part of the problem, on account of being, um, neoliberal or some such. SMH

  137. 137
    germy says:

    @Yarrow: that’s a dealbreaker right there.

  138. 138
    smintheus says:

    The choice for Haberman was between

    demonstrable falsehoods


    demonstrable inaccuracies


    demonstrable inexactness

    She bravely chose to use the strongest language available.

  139. 139
    germy says:

    Trump’s pants look more wrinkled since Hope Hicks quit. She used to steam his pants, right?

  140. 140
    Mary G says:

    Profile in courage, this one. WaPo reviews
    McCain’s book in advance
    of the HBO documentary tomorrow:

    McCain repeatedly criticizes conservative “talk radio blowhards.” He calls the House Freedom Caucus “the say-no-to-everything crowd.” He says nativists “need to be confronted, not ignored or winked at or quietly dismissed as kooks.” He mocks his 2016 primary challenger, Kelli Ward, for attacking him as “a champion of compromise.” “You’re damn right,” he responds. Former Trump aides Steve Bannon and Sebastian Gorka are “self-proclaimed nationalist radicals.” “Bigger misfits haven’t been seen inside a White House since William Taft got stuck in his bathtub,” he writes.

    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) is another punching bag. The hawkish McCain faults the libertarian for falling prey to a conspiracy theory that he met with representatives of the Islamic State and for putting a hold on a vote to let Montenegro join NATO. Last year, he accused Paul of “working for Vladimir Putin” by opposing the expansion of the alliance. It was “an intemperate thing to say,” McCain now writes. “But it wasn’t incorrect.”

    All politicians self-mythologize. This book is an effort to codify McCain’s maverick brand. He puts extra emphasis on his work across the aisle, including a 38-page chapter about working with Sen. Ted Kennedy, the liberal lion from Massachusetts, on health care and immigration. He has kind words for other leading Democrats, too, including Hillary Clinton.

    I will always respect his refusal to leave the Hanoi Hilton ahead of his jailmates, his vote against the ACA repeal, and his telling the lady that said Obama’s an A-rab that he was not, but a good Christian family man. But that doesn’t make up for all the other shit he ignored in his party when it mattered.

  141. 141
    Jay says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    “The 1964 case New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, however, radically changed the nature of libel law in the United States by establishing that public officials could win a suit for libel only when they could prove the media outlet in question knew either that the information was wholly and patently false or that it was published “with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not”

  142. 142
    Corner Stone says:

    @Yarrow: From their Wiki, so FWIW:
    “It also partners with Bing, Yandex and Wikipedia to produce results or make use of features offered. The company also confirmed that it does not share user information with partner companies, as has always been its policy”

  143. 143
    Steeplejack says:


    She used to steam his pants, right?


    ETA: Are we still doing phrasing?

  144. 144
    Brachiator says:

    Recent news story:

    Harley-Davidson workers say plant closure after tax cut is like a bad dream

    The Milwaukee-based motorcycle manufacturer benefited from the tax cuts enacted Jan. 1, then announced cuts of 350 jobs across the company in late January. On Feb. 5 , it approved a half-cent dividend increase and buyback of up to 15 million shares.

    Did Trump lie, or was he just “confused?”

  145. 145
  146. 146
    Tokyokie says:

    @Amir Khalid: Amir, I know that U.K. libel laws are such that famous plaintiffs have a much better chance of prevailing than in the United States, and perhaps such laws are the norm in Commonwealth countries. But in American jurisprudence, between truth being an absolute defense and the actual malice standard for public figures established in New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964), successful libel actions brought by famous people are so difficult to win that they rarely make it to trial. (Many are filed as PR stunts, then quietly withdrawn, and if a news organization was so sloppy as to have violated the actual malice standard, a settlement is made out of court before trial.) And keep in mind that the costliest celebrity-versus-the-press case of recent years, Hulk Hogan against Gawker, was based on a invasion of privacy claim, not defamation. (Written as a fellow LFC fan and former journo.)

  147. 147
    germy says:

    @Mary G: McCain. If we had more like him…

    MLK Day wouldn’t be a national holiday.

  148. 148
    Lapassionara says:

    @smintheus: as I understand it, the British House of Commons would not permit members to call one another liars. Churchill coined a work-around. He used the phrase “purveyor of terminological inexactitudes.” Now that would be a Twitter nightmare.

  149. 149
    Corner Stone says:

    @Steeplejack: I don’t know about others but I do a lot of searching. I’ve tried other engines but they are clunky and sometimes irrelevant. Anytime I see Bing set as default somewhere I mentally put on my Punisher face. Google used to be pretty predictable and solid, even if they were tracking all of us. Whatever they did to their business model/algorithm within the last year has destroyed their usefulness to what I need to accomplish.

  150. 150
    Steeplejack says:

    @Mary G:

    I will always respect his [what you said].

    Agreed, but that is a molehill compared with the mountains of bullshit and party-line GOP hackery that he trafficked in throughout his career.

    Note: Just vehemently agreeing with what you said.

    It’s amazing that all these lapdogs (see also: Jeff Flake et al.) think that mildly “speaking truth to power” on their way out amounts to anything.

  151. 151
    Neldob says:

    @Tokyokie: is anybody even looking for these children? It’s nuts this isn’t a front page of every newspaper. Oh yeah, they’re probably slightly brownish in tint.

  152. 152
  153. 153
    Msb says:

    Mike, Debbie & Brachiator,
    Yes, bald-faced lies, though i’ve heard people say, barefaced a few times.

  154. 154
    Yarrow says:

    @Corner Stone: I don’t trust Yandex and I don’t believe what DuckDuckGo says about their partnership.

    I agree with you that Google changed their algorithm in the last year or so and it isn’t nearly as useful. I don’t like Bing but I’ve found it indexes Balloon-Juice comments better than Google. I have searched for particular comments using Bing and have had much better luck.

  155. 155
    Steeplejack says:


    Harley-Davidson closed at $42.31 on Friday, so 15 million shares would run you at least $635 million, assuming the price doesn’t go up—which it often does in advance of a buyback. Nice to know they’ve got that money to “invest” but can’t think of something productive that would save 350 jobs.

  156. 156
    rikyrah says:

    How Dolt45’s administration has systematically stripped protections for children😠

  157. 157
    SgrAstar says:

    @Barbara: voter reg is totally doable for the knee- challenged. I have a card table + chair that I can set up in parking lots, parks, etc. You may need permission at places like Walmart, but once you navigate that registering voters is easy and fun… especially if you do it with a friend.

  158. 158
    rikyrah says:

    Pilot kidnaps foreign student. Tried to send him to China😠😠😠

  159. 159
    bluefish says:

    Proud of John Cusack. For real.

  160. 160
    Sab says:

    @Yarrow: I personally love pedants. English ain’t Chinese but it is a complex language. I love the people out there who care about it.

  161. 161
    Steeplejack says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Whatever they did to their business model/​algorithm within the last year has destroyed their usefulness to what I need to accomplish.

    Are you talking general searching, or do you have some specific area of interest where they have screwed the pooch?

  162. 162
    Steeplejack says:


    I’m so white I don’t even know what’s going on there.

  163. 163
    JPL says:

    I’m trying to figure out what the latest tweet by the asshole means.

    Why didn’t President Obama do something about the so-called Russian Meddling when he was told about it by the FBI before the Election? Because he thought Crooked Hillary was going to win, and he didn’t want to upset the apple cart! He was in charge, not me, and did nothing.

    Was there meddling?
    We know that McConnell stopped Obama from issuing a statement, so what does McConnell think now?
    Did the asshole only collude because Obama didn’t stop him?

  164. 164
    JPL says:

    @germy: McCain didn’t seem to mind his birthday cake from Bush, while folks drowned in LA.

  165. 165
    Howard Appel says:

    @Van Buren:

    They would all boohoo and then defend him for raising the issue for discussion

  166. 166
    TS (the original) says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    When this is all over, Haberhack needs to walk around New York with her head shaved and a big sign around her neck: “Collaborator and Normalizer.”

    Nah – When a democrat is the next President she’ll remember to use the word lie on a regular basis. Suddenly the President, like Hillary Clinton, will be attacked for all and any words that are out of place. Democrats lie, republicans misspeak.

  167. 167
    Denali says:

    What Trump does and what he has always done is bullshit. See Harry Frankfurter’s book. His purpose is to obfuscate, distract from, and block the truth. He cannot be in the same room with the truth.

  168. 168
    JEC says:

    Can someone remind me why White House staffers brief rooms full of reporters from the podium ANONYMOUSLY? I mean, what exactly is accomplished?

  169. 169
    Amir Khalid says:

    “Needlessly obscure German”? Glaub mir, jeder, der fließendes Englisch kann, kann Deutsch leicht lernen.
    And yes, I was playing on Mueller’s name. That’s why the saying had to be in German.

  170. 170
    Corner Stone says:

    @Steeplejack: To be general about it, I started to have trouble chasing down footnoted “facts” in whitepapers. Then, more and more, I noticed I couldn’t find something I knew had been said on BJ. Adam S’s series on Syria not too long ago had been disappeared, even though I knew I had commented on it and used keyword terms. It now sometimes displays and sometimes does not. In this specific BJ instance I am referring to when RUS mercs tried to assault a US Military installation and some several hundred of the mercs got dead by USAF. But at the time no one knew for sure what had happened.
    Not finding BJ conversations is frustrating but when I can’t be sure any longer that I am returning the best product to digest/analyze/write up something current in my field then I get a little hinky. That’s a technical term.
    It’s like having the hard copy of a document but when you tell someone to send you the electronic copy they say they can’t find it on the system.

  171. 171
    R says:

    I don’t know what the problem is, but I am wishing you will get better. Sending you positive thoughts.

  172. 172
    Amir Khalid says:

    Some organisations make a practice of their spokespeople who brief the media being anonymous because the information is supposed to be attributed to the organisation, not to the individual giving the briefing.

  173. 173
    rikyrah says:

    I don’t know what the issue is, but I am sending you positive thoughts.

  174. 174
    rikyrah says:

    Marriage proposal
    The slide must be a private joke between them.
    He has someone singing Stevie Wonder’s Ribbons In The sky, and if look above him, he has some streamers which represent the Ribbons In The Sky romantic

  175. 175
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Got it.

  176. 176
    Amir Khalid says:

    Trump may be preparing the ground for a “now look what you made me do” defence, which would probably not work with a competent judge.

  177. 177
    rikyrah says:

    I just noticed
    Are we not able to correct our reply, if we make a mistake?

  178. 178
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    Man, this temporary mobile site fix is going to be tougher than I thought. With no comment numbers and no “hot” time stamps to anchor your last position, it’s quite hard to navigate in the thread unless you’re specifically responding to one comment.

    Hopefully a fix will come on Tuesday.

  179. 179
    Corner Stone says:

    Come Tuesday, it’ll be alright
    Come Tuesday, I’ll be replying just right
    I spent four lonely days in a mobile commenting haze
    And I just went my nym back all right

  180. 180
    JPL says:

    @Amir Khalid: Possibly, but I’m confused what happened to the witch hunt.

    Is the witch hunt defense dead? hmmm

  181. 181
    Kay says:

    It just stops meaning anything. That’s what they should worry about. “The news” won’t mean anything.

    I read Trump Administration info like this now “the NK summit will be held on March 33rd, on the moon” – because it doesn’t matter what they say.

    If it doesn’t matter what they say then careful transcribing of the words is not valuable. No one will pay for it.

  182. 182
    James Powell says:

    @The Midnight Lurker:

    For me it was Jeff Gerth. I hated the New York Times before it was cool.

  183. 183
    MomSense says:


    I had laparoscopic abdominal surgery. They ended up doing more than planned. It’s all good though.

  184. 184
    JGabriel says:

    Haberman is wrong. Whether or not one is a liar depends on one’s knowledge of whether one is telling the truth or not.

    Whether or not one is telling lies, though, depends on the truth or falsity of the statements, and NOT the knowledge of the person making the statements. Trump’s ‘falsehoods’ are lies, whether or not he knows it.

    Just stating the obvious for the record. I doubt anyone here needs to have that distinction made plain.

  185. 185
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @James Powell: Gerth will not ride a tumbrel. He’ll be drawn and quartered.

  186. 186
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    @Elizabelle: Also check out SpreadTheVote and of course orgs like SwingLeft, SisterDistrict, Flippable etc., have also been doing voter registration (though right now they are mostly canvassing for upcoming primaries.)

  187. 187
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Whatever they did to their business model/algorithm within the last year has destroyed their usefulness to what I need to accomplish.

    The one thing I’ve noticed that google has stopped doing is return all hits for a particular site, which makes results for things like searching for ones name in comments useless. (I very occasionally crawl parts of this site just to have something complete to run a grep over.)
    If I have some text for an old comment, a google search always finds it (at least in about 10 random samples). And in general google is still pretty good; it helps if one types good search keywords/quoted phrases on the first search. :-)
    Stinks. The fix is probably a site-based searcher, perhaps with some sort of rate limiter.
    Have tried a pile of search engines plus meta search engines and none of the ones tried return complete results any more.

  188. 188
    Steeplejack says:

    @Bill Arnold:

    Have tried a pile of search engines plus meta search engines and none of the ones tried return complete results any more.

    The Internet has gotten too big!

  189. 189
    Corner Stone says:

    @Bill Arnold:

    And in general google is still pretty good; it helps if one types good search keywords/quoted phrases on the first search.

    I use precise keywords and/or phrases I know were in that thread, and it still fails multiple times before it comes back with displays. It’s not like I’m asking it to find that comment where a certain commenter was talking about a relationship with someone who was too young for him and now he’s completely wearing the cranky pants because he realizes that shit was good and it ain’t going to get any better, like ever.

Comments are closed.