Daddy’s Rifle in my Hand Felt Reassuring

The student who killed at least 10 kids and injured another 10 used his father’s guns to do it. The more I read about these shootings, the more I think that a “responsible gun owner” is about as rare a thing as a “reasonable conservative”.






183 replies
  1. 1
    EBT says:

    Won’t matter until it’s legislators’ kids.

  2. 2
    C. Isaac says:

    @EBT:

    Didn’t matter when it was a legislator herself.

  3. 3
    syphonblue says:

    Don’t worry, everyone, the right wing has a new reason for so many school shootings, and this one’s an easy fix!

    Too many doors.

    https://twitter.com/TomNamako/status/997557776850268162

    Now raise your hand if you think you can figure out the problem here.

  4. 4
    Mnemosyne says:

    You can’t expect Responsible Gun Owners to keep their guns locked up! What will they do when the Black thugs looking to rape white wimmen zombies show up? How will they defend themselves?

    I fucking hate these people.

  5. 5
    piratedan says:

    @C. Isaac: and to be fair, when Scalise was shot (and saved by a Secret Service female POC) he hasn’t changed his stance either.

    I’m not sure these guys will be fazed until its their heads on pikes, they’re busy serving their paymasters unequivocally…

  6. 6
    Mnemosyne says:

    @C. Isaac:

    Also himself. That asshole who got shot on a DC ballfield has never wavered in his support for the NRA.

  7. 7
    EBT says:

    @Mnemosyne: I rather think that it’s their kids not them that would do the thing. Especially at the state level where they can’t inure themselves behind stacks of federal funds.

  8. 8
    Gravenstone says:

    @piratedan: @Mnemosyne: If anything, Scalise has doubled down on his pro-gun stance, Shoulda let the fucker bleed out, but no the first responders were conscientious in their action.

  9. 9
    Elizabelle says:

    Ten? OMG. I can’t even.

    On the bright side, it has been 3 months since Parkland. That’s a pretty healthy stretch between mass shootings, isn’t it?

    Vote like our kids’ lives depend on it. I think this November’s heartwarming TV visual is going to be fired up (and sometimes fired on) kids showing up to vote for the first time.

    To vote the fuckers who allow this to continue OUT.

  10. 10
    Dog Mom says:

    @Mnemosyne: He still gets a check from them, right?

  11. 11
    HeleninEire says:

    @EBT: That’s what my Dad said. Don’t be too sure. A murder by gun happened in my family and the pro gun faction said nothing. I STFU at the funeral because I did not want to hurt anyone more than they hurt already. But they make so many bullshit excuses that you just walk away. Alex.

  12. 12
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    The father needs to be held accountable for this. He needs to be charged with something because he’s just as responsible for this as is son is.

  13. 13
    patrick II says:

    We could seriously use some responsible gun owner laws. If yow unsecured gun is used by your child to murder other people, then you go to jail. If a child playing at your house picks up a gun and shoots himself or others thinking its a toy 1 then you go to jail.
    The NRA won’t like that of course because the only defense against a bad child with Agar is a good child with gun. Responsible gun ownership would mean people are actually held responsible. yet another conservative myth.

  14. 14
    aarrgghh says:

    <alexjonesclickbait>
    when will george soros activate his false flag crisis actors at YOUR kids’ schools?
    </alexjonesclickbait>

  15. 15
    Betty Cracker says:

    The shooter’s parents should be jailed, then sued to destitution.

  16. 16
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @EBT:
    They (Congressional GOP pols on their stupid baseball team) already got shot at and one of them (Scalise) was seriously injured last summer. Spent several weeks in a hospital. Didn’t matter. The experience didn’t change their minds one bit, not even Scalise’s.

    That said, I think we dodged a metaphorical bullet when none of the Goopers died. Imagine if several GOP congressmen had died at the hands of a professed left-wing gunman…

  17. 17
  18. 18
    jl says:

    @C. Isaac:

    “Didn’t matter when it was a legislator herself.”

    That legislator was an unconstitutional DemocRAT, so it didn’t count.
    But, OTOH, it didn’t matter when it was a GOP legislator himself. So, you make a fair point.

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷:
    Sadly, if the tragic shooting at the Congressional baseball practice had been worse, I fear the NRA and GOP would have declared to dead to be posthumous heroes who selflessly gave their very lives for the cause of completely insane lack of any gun regulation at all. And it would be an enormity to betray their sacrifice by doing anything to stop more senseless gun deaths.

  19. 19
    guachi says:

    I agree. The father should be sued into oblivion.

  20. 20
    HeleninEire says:

    @Betty Cracker: Oh My God. That was my screaming shit when Alex died. I am tired of people having children who cannot manage their children. Alex was killed by a psycho who’s father was a cop.

    That kid was crazy but where the fuck were his parents?

  21. 21
    LongHairedWeirdo says:

    “Responsible gun owner” is a holdover from the 80s/90s gun propaganda wars. Back in those days, their grievous sin was that they preached defense as “what matters is that you are alive, and can lawfully justify shooting”. (i.e.: not shooting someone who isn’t actually going to hurt you? Who cares? Was it *legal*?)

    They won that battle, both for police, and for civilians with “Stand Your Ground” laws, both of which point toward “the important thing is, let’s not quibble over who shot who, let’s quibble only whether the shooter can make the correct statement to the investigators”.

    Now they want more armed people running around with delusions of being heroes, because, after all, “the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun…” because the whole “shoot first, as long as it’s lawful” works out so well, both for needless deaths and a paranoid populace!

  22. 22
    jl says:

    @syphonblue: Everyone knows that the corrupt Democrats are tools of Big Door money. Or everyone will know after Fox and Friends does the expose.

  23. 23
    Elizabelle says:

    @HeleninEire: Helen, I am so sorry. If you ever can, I wonder if you might do a guest post about how Alex’s life was lost. I understand if it is too much to bear.

    @Betty Cracker: This is such a tragedy, and I think we WILL get some good gun safety regulation out of this. We are going to have a blue wave, and we are going to elect a Congress that gives a fuck about protecting students, workers, everybody.

    There is no reason this could not have happened at just about any American school. We are not safe with so many guns floating around with no responsibility.

    And yes, if she’d survived, I’d hope Mrs. Lanza was holding her cardboard box together under a bridge, right now, in all this rain.

  24. 24
    Elizabelle says:

    At a minimum, guns should be regulated like cars.

    Let the insurers deal with this one. Business decision, and recourse by victims and whole school systems and public safety expense — let them sue the fucker who let the gun out to murder.

  25. 25
    Mnemosyne says:

    @aarrgghh:

    You’ve missed the latest conspiracy theory: it’s all the fault of the Freemasons. They’re the ones who have been going around faking mass shootings.

    I shit you not.

    ETA: I’m not providing links, because I don’t want to pollute my browser.

  26. 26
    Lapassionara says:

    @Elizabelle: Yes. If a father allows his son to take possession of a weapon of war, then the father is negligent, and he owes damages to the victims of his son’s terror. Sue him to destitution.

    And I do not want anyone to even suggest that the 2d amendment protects him. He has no right to an AK-47 or any other military grade weapon.

  27. 27
    Yarrow says:

    “Responsible Gun Owner” needs to be attacked like Mothers Against Drunk Driving attacked driving while drunk.

    If you leave your gun where someone else can access it, you are not a Responsible Gun Owner. If your gun is in your purse, backpack, waistband, wherever and it goes off, you are not a Responsible Gun Owner. There need to be penalties for gun owners who are Not Responsible Gun Owners. Every time. I don’t care if your kid takes your gun and shoots your other kid. You have not Suffered Enough. You need to pay a price, just like drunk drivers who hurt or kill their family members via driving drunk, they are not given a pass. They are charged and pay a price for their actions. Same needs to happen for Not Responsible Gun Owners.

  28. 28
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @C. Isaac: Didn’t matter when it was several pro-gun legislators.
    https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/06/14/some-thoughts-on-todays-shootings/

  29. 29
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Elizabelle: I believe we will get to sane gun laws eventually. The culture is shifting. But in the meantime, I don’t see any excuse hardcore gun nuts could have for opposing laws to hold parents accountable when kids access their arsenal and kill a bunch of people. Wingnuts like to judge others, and they never think a gun tragedy of any type will take place in their family. They claim to be all about personal responsibility. So they shouldn’t object if states start hammering parents whose kids get ahold of guns with serious jail time.

  30. 30
    p.a. says:

    Yeah, the only time these PsoS are in favor of healthcare is when they want psych checks to prevent the mentally ill from getting guns. Well, you fuckers, who is born insane? So let’s have free yearly mental health screening AND TREATMENT for everyone. I can get behind that.

  31. 31
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @syphonblue: Actually that creates a funnel during evacuations making it easier to kill more people. Pull fire alarm, take position, wait for victims (targets) to all come streaming out of one place, start shooting.

  32. 32
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Elizabelle: There have been 22 school shootings to this point this year.

  33. 33
    HeleninEire says:

    @Elizabelle: Thank you for asking. It is so complicated and so bizarre. I was going to explain the whole thing to you but maybe will wait for a slow news day (Oh hell no. There are no slow news days). But I will tell you now. There was not even a little reason. His killer even admitted to that.,

  34. 34
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    @Yarrow:

    Several years ago one of my husand’s students was shot while walking to the car with her aunt and cousin to go shopping. Redneck across the street was “cleaning” his gun, and it went off, through the window, bullet hit the aunt first, cousin second, and student third. Aunt was killed instantly, cousin survived, and so did student. No charges were filed against the “responsible gun owner” who just made a mistake while cleaning his LOADED weapon. Now I just did limited weapons training while in the RN but rule # 1 was always CLEAR THE FUCKING WEAPON BEFORE CLEANING IT. So yeah, don’t give me this “responsible gun owner” bullshit.

  35. 35
    Ruckus says:

    @Yarrow:
    The part about “Responsible Gun Owners” that might just work is that this is one of the gun humpers own phrases. They keep saying this crap about responsible gun owners, who are perfect, right up til the moment they fuck up. And they won’t listen to anything that takes away their god given right to own all the fucking guns in the world. OK then, mandatory insurance, and while you may be able to own one or many guns, you have to be responsible. Life in prison with no possibility of parole if one of your guns is used in a mass shooting, doesn’t matter if you pulled the trigger or not. Full monetary restitution for any use of one of your guns that harms someone. Your kid shoots his friend with your gun? A set amount, say 5 million for the parents, paid by insurance or everything you own. Imagine if a gun that you brought to protect your house from theft caused you to lose everything and end up living on the street. Doesn’t matter if someone breaks into your house and steals your guns or if your kid picks it up and shoots his friend. You pay.

  36. 36
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    What part of shall not be infringed do you not understand!!!!

    is the default response. The 2nd Amendment absolutists have serious issues over safe storage laws and requirements. Whether that is trigger locks or locked in safes when not in use. The argument is two fold: 1) this is an infringement on the natural, constitutional, and civil right to self defense as enumerated in the 2nd Amendment to keep and bear arms in a way that shall not be infringed and 2) If I have to use my self defense weapon/weapons for actual self defense, I won’t have time to open the safe or remove the trigger lock or load and charge the weapon; especially if this is at night when I’ve been woken up from a deep sleep and my body is dumping adrenaline.

    The first one is simply legally and factually inaccurate. The second one is a good example of why the people making the argument shouldn’t have access to weapons. Also, buy a dog or get an alarm system if you need an early warning system.

  37. 37
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: I’d put money on it being a GLOCK. Have to pull the trigger to disassemble the weapon.

  38. 38
    Tom says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: How about 10 counts of accessory before the fact to homicide?

  39. 39
    Cacti says:

    Dimitrios Pagourtzis
    Nikolas Cruz
    Travis Reinking
    Stephen Paddock
    Dylann Roof
    Devin Kelley
    Jared Loughner
    James Holmes
    Adam Lanza
    Robert Dear
    Chris Harper-Mercer
    Adam Purinton
    Dylan Klebold
    Eric Harris

    All committed multiple murders with legally purchased firearms. Their own or someone else’s.

  40. 40
    EBT says:

    @Elizabelle: March 20th was the last fatal school shooting and May 11th the last shooting where someone was injured. May 16 was the last previous incident of a gun being fired on a school campus.

  41. 41
    Cacti says:

    And yet again, in the case of a white mass murder suspect, local law enforcement managed to avoid getting the trigger hiccups when apprehending him.

    Funny how that works.

  42. 42
    The Ancient Randonneur says:

    Abolish the 2nd Amendment. Full Stop.

  43. 43
    Leto says:

    @syphonblue: @jl: From that thread

    Bryan Koch@bryan_koch 2h2 hours ago
    More
    Replying to @TomNamako

    Patrick is right. Other causes:

    – School had floors (too easy for attacker to walk around)
    – Too many lights (attacker can see in the light)
    – Oxygen-rich air (allows attacker to breathe)

    Dems are in the pocket of BigFloor/BigLight/BigAir… total neo-liberal shills here…

  44. 44
    Sab says:

    @piratedan: It has to be their grandchildren, so they have to explain to their own children why they are so pro-gun ($).

  45. 45
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Shot:

    Chaser:

  46. 46
    The Ancient Randonneur says:

    I would like to see a movement that puts protesters out in front of every business that sells firearms in the same way anti-abortion activists protest outside of clinics.

  47. 47
    mai naem mobile says:

    We should have gofundmes to buy guns for lots of blackity blackity black people . Lots of guns. Only black people. Paul Ryan will have gun control legislation on the floor so fast it will make your head spin.

  48. 48
    Leto says:

    @Adam L Silverman: My dad did this with his .22 rifle when he was a teen (set off a round while cleaning the weapon). Remington. Luckily the bullet passed through the outer wall and into the woods, though he was absolutely freaked the F out (as he should have been). He would periodically tell me that story any time we might go shoot as a constant reminder to 1)be aware/vigilant when handling a weapon and 2) ALWAYS BE SURE YOU DAMN GUN IS UNLOADED. Then when you think it’s clear, CHECK AGAIN. Just about every weapons instructor that I’ve had has preached the same advice. I feel this is why mandatory pre-purchase training, with periodic refreshers, should be mandatory.

  49. 49
    cwmoss says:

    @Cacti: Don’t forget Oregon’s own Kip Kinkel! 20th anniversary coming in a few days.

  50. 50
    EBT says:

    @mai naem mobile: Arm the homeless.

  51. 51
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I remember seeing a news story about some single white woman (I think it was Entertainment Tonight or some tabloid-style show) who was trying to make some complaint that because of the neighborhood she lived in a shotgun would not be effective since intruders might have automatic assault weapons. So therefore she needed a semi-auto pistol with an extended mag silly, gun-grabbin’ libtard!

  52. 52
    Yarrow says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    No charges were filed against the “responsible gun owner” who just made a mistake while cleaning his LOADED weapon.

    And this is where the problem is. He’s not a Responsible Gun Owner if his gun goes off and kills and injures people while he’s cleaning his gun. The definition of Responsible Gun Owner is open to interpretation. Let’s interpret it and make them pay.

    @Ruckus:

    The part about “Responsible Gun Owners” that might just work is that this is one of the gun humpers own phrases. They keep saying this crap about responsible gun owners, who are perfect, right up til the moment they fuck up.

    Yep. And it’s great to use their own language against them. It’s harder for them to fight against. We can start with the assumption that people are Responsible Gun Owners but when/if they fuck up then they are no longer Responsible Gun Owners and there need to be penalties for those kinds of fuckups.

    It used to be okay to drive drunk. It was okay to hit other cars and people. It was comedy in films when someone drove drunk and drove their car into a tree. It’s not anymore. M.A.D.D. changed it. Small changes at first, followed by bigger changes and larger penalties. It’s an obvious parallel to gun owners. These changes can happen. They need to pay when they are Not Responsible Gun Owners.

  53. 53
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Yarrow:
    All great points. Nothing will change until the NRA is destroyed.

  54. 54
    ruemara says:

    My roomie has told me a number of stories of growing up in rural red CA. One of which involved a friend shooting another’s head off while messing around with guns. Nothing was done since it was an accident and boys need guns. Once I saw that communities could put their kids at risk for unfettered access to the holy gun, I understood why nothing has been done. This mindset is entrenched and yeah, they’d much rather have their kids off themselves, each other or your kids, than even wait 5 minutes to get a gun from a secure locked cabinet. It’s not sane, it’s not nice, but the only thing important is the glorious gun. Not even the fruit of their loins are worth as much.

  55. 55

    @mai naem mobile:
    The right wing have found an answer to that: Paranoid policemen gunning down blacks they even think might be armed.

  56. 56
    patrick II says:

    The word “responsible”, as used by NRA, and conservatives generally is not the same as it is for me. For them it means they will pretend to feel bad and pretend to search for solutions — generally more guns, thoughts and prayers — and for me it means being the cause of something and thus having and obligation to repay, make restitution as far as possible, and take action so that it won’t happen again.
    In the case of being responsible for a crime that in part means a fine and jail time.

  57. 57
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    @patrick II: “If yow unsecured gun is used by your child to murder other people, then you go to jail.”

    And you lose any/all access to guns for the rest of your life, regardless of jail time or not.

  58. 58
    trollhattan says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷:
    He’s 17 so not majority, they can definitely go after dad’s ass.

    The Washington Post has just reported that more Americans have been killed at schools this year than have been killed while serving in the military. The newspaper compiled Department of Defense statistics and their own record of murders in US schools to find that nearly twice as many people were killed in schools than in the military.

  59. 59
    trollhattan says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    “Good people on both sides.”

  60. 60
    trollhattan says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    “Serpentine path, serpentine path!”

    Do they forget Virginia Tech killer chain-locked the doors from the outside beforehand? Duh.

  61. 61
    philbert says:

    Nearly 40 years ago my best friend and his wife of 6 weeks were killed by a drunk driver. The bar owner that served the under-age driver, until she was staggering, was successfully sued, and for a lot. It didn’t bring anyone back, but helped, and established some responsibility for the wrong. If we ruin the parents etc who share the responsibility, that would be a good step. MAD can be a model. MASS Mothers Against School Shootings?

  62. 62
    m.j. says:

    There are no responsible gun owners.
    If you own guns you are culpable. You are content with the body-count.

  63. 63
    Baud says:

    @trollhattan:

    Parents should start thanking kids for their service.

  64. 64
    Sab says:

    @Adam L Silverman: The second amendment nitwits think it’s okay for children to have guns. These things kill people and they think kids should have them.!?

    I first fired a gun when I was 12 years old at summer camp. It was a 22 rifle. I thought it was cool. The training (by NRA back when they were into safety) was all about safety. I was twelve years old at a rifle range. Never occured to me that guns were dangerous. The NRA training back then was about guns being guns, i.e. dangerous. Whole different world.

    And now my grandchildren have active shooter training in school.

  65. 65
    Yarrow says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: It’s going to take attacks on many fronts. The NRA is one of them and the investigation into Russian interference in our elections will have some impact on them.

    Parkland had some impact and some very small changes were made in Florida. We have to keep working to make legislative changes.

    Another avenue that M.A.D.D. used was culture. They worked with writers on shows in Hollywood and got them to use the idea of a designated driver into their shows. They had to explain what it was and why anyone would want someone to be the designated driver. Now everyone knows what that is but back when they started it was a new, strange concept. Same sort of thing could be done with guns.

  66. 66
    Gex says:

    If the driver of a getaway car can be charged with a murder that others commit during a robbery, the owner of a gun that has not been reported stolen should be charged with any murders committed with their gun.

    They have all the laws they want protecting their rights to own a gun. It’s not where I’d want the law to be, but so long as it is this way, we need legislation that enforces the responsibilities that go along with the rights. Fuck merely being civilly liable. It is a deadly weapon that they themselves say they are responsible enough to own. If they fail to secure it they are party to what happens with it.

  67. 67
    trollhattan says:

    C&L has a fun blast from the past courtesy of a Chris Cuomo interview of Rudy. This describes the video.

    Watch Rudy Giuliani fight reality as CNN’s Chris Cuomo plays an old tape — with Rudy saying presidents must comply with a subpoena to testify. Hilarity ensues as America’s Mayor melts down.

    The whole segment can be boiled down to something every seasoned blog reader knows: It’s Okay If You’re A Republican!

    Rudy insisted he wouldn’t have said a sitting president must comply with a subpoena asking him to testify, only to provide documents. So Cuomo rolled the 20-year-old tape.

    “That’s really unfair!” Rudy said. “That’s extremely unfair what you’re doing right now! This is the reason people don’t come on this show!”

    Heh.

  68. 68
    Elizabelle says:

    It’s about the time that the kids would be home from school; maybe teacher too.

    They just left for school and work this morning. But returning, or anything at all, is beyond them now.`They may still be lying where they fell, some of them.

  69. 69
    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman) says:

    There are some responsible gun owners out there who lock up their weapons, aren’t itching for an excuse to shoot someone, handle their firearms carefully, etc.

    The problem is that they are conscientious enough to do all that on their own without the law forcing them to do so, while their erstwhile fellow gun owners do not.

    There’s even more gun owners who believe that’s just a bunch on LIEberal crap and ignore all the safe storage rules because a real man doesn’t have to worry about such things.🙄

    Safe storage laws would be a start.

  70. 70
    Elizabelle says:

    @philbert: MASS.

    Mothers against School Shootings.

    Yes. And I’m so sorry about your friends’ senseless deaths.

  71. 71
    jl says:

    As the great Door Control debate rages, I hope people remember that windows (obvious) and air ventilation shafts (can crawl through them) are problems too!

    But I think a simple, cheap, safe and effective solution. If we are going to issue school personnel bullet proof transparent backpacks and other personnel body armor, we just add on a personal air supply. Will be a boon to the SCUBA supply industry.

  72. 72
    Jay says:

    “Santa Fe High, you didn’t deserve this. You deserve peace all your lives, not just after a tombstone saying that is put over you. You deserve more than Thoughts and Prayers, and after supporting us by walking out we will be there to support you by raising up your voices.- ”
    Emma Gonzalez, Parkland shooting survivor

  73. 73
    Van Buren says:

    I am starting to doubt the effectiveness of thoughts and prayers.

  74. 74
    jl says:

    Hunkering down in home schools can be easily done. Will be easily done when women are always in the home as God intended, though will have to educate them somewhat. Simple and efficient artificial intelligence automatic home defense systems can be installed that will blow away anything or anybody that moves towards the individual property can be installed.

    If we are not willing to sacrifice anything at all to preserve our freedoms, then we don’t deserve them.

    @Van Buren: No, we heard from authorities that it is those God damned doors’ fault, and the irresponsible habit of a population that insists on going wandering around, willy-nilly, easy as you please, in public areas. Get woke on what preserving our freedom requires, dude.

  75. 75
    Ruckus says:

    @ruemara:
    I’ve posted on here before about how many times I’ve been shot at and that only once was someone actually shooting at me. That evening I set the 1/2 mile running world record. I had no idea I could run that fast.
    Anyway one of the other times a friend was fucking around and went outside the house we were in and fired his .357 magnum handgun, with hollow point bullets, to scare the other two of us inside. He didn’t know that I’d walked out onto the front porch and stepped off right in front of him as he fired. Had I been one inch taller or the porch ran out a couple inches farther, he would have hit me in the head. And have committed murder. Just for the record he went on to become a cop. This was almost 50 yrs ago.

  76. 76
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Leto: No arguments here.

  77. 77
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: She’d have been better off with the shotgun for home defense.

  78. 78
    Sab says:

    @Van Buren: That is so last year. This year they only have “prayers”. No need for “thoughts” anymore. At least they are honest about that.

  79. 79
    Mary G says:

    @Adam L Silverman: O/T but Hoocoodanode:

    ALERT! According to this, Saudi authorities on the first day of Ramadan arrested a number of activists, including three of Saudi Arabia's most prominent women's rights activists. Named here are @LoujainHathloul, @Saudiwoman, and @azizayousef. https://t.co/F0uXJpnR8g— İyad el-Baghdadi | إياد البغدادي (@iyad_elbaghdadi) May 18, 2018

    Tom Friedman needs to STFU about how great MBS is and how he’s modernizing the KSA.

  80. 80
    Ruckus says:

    @Gex:
    I’m saying if you owned the gun and couldn’t keep it secure then you are culpable. I don’t care if it was stolen from you, you didn’t properly control it. End of story.

  81. 81
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trollhattan: They have issues.

  82. 82
    Mary G says:

    The kids are on it:

    BREAKING: DC area high school students have entered the US Capitol building, and are heading to Paul Ryan’s office to demand he pass legislation for gun reform now— Scott Dworkin (@funder) May 18, 2018

  83. 83
    Kay says:

    They are looking at whether there’s a connection between teenagers who are suicidal and these shootings. Not that all suicidal kids are also homicidal (no, no, no) but that all kids who perpetrate these acts are suicidal. Some survive, but they all intend to die. They’re even looking at the threats in that context- that a bombing or shooting threat (there are tens of them in schools in the US every month) is akin to a suicide threat- has elements in common- with kids. These are not gun-excusers, so not frauds like Pence. They’re mental health people. Kids are different than adults. They think differently. So they’re trying to isolate out the school shootings from other mass shootings to see if there’s a specific mental health component re: self harm and if that’s the entry point to identifying them, helping them, and preventing this. Of course it could go really badly and end up stupid and tragic if they start over-identifying kids, but that’s always a risk and it just has to be anticipated and avoided.

    That’s a different way of looking at it and I imagine it will meet resistance because some people will think it’s excusing the behavior but it might be a piece of what’s going on here. Obviously, too, the guns.

  84. 84
    Ruckus says:

    @Van Buren:
    I’m going to assume snark there. If only because it is extremely reasonable to do so.
    If you didn’t mean it as snark…………..

  85. 85
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: So, this is all the fault of fire alarms. Makes sense. Local fire marshalls were trying to sabotage Trump rallies during the election. We need to stop Big Fire Department from killing our people!

  86. 86
    Starfish says:

    @jl: The tech libertarians are all condescending because they send their kids to private school, and this would never happen in their private school. A private school where this happens would be shut down with a quickness. Public schools have to accept everyone, and private schools do not.

  87. 87
    Gex says:

    @Ruckus: Good point. Nix the stolen part of my post. If you got it stolen reporting it doesn’t change your culpability.

  88. 88
    trollhattan says:

    @Mary G:
    Go kids, go! We’re counting on you because, sadly, we’re unable to do squat ourselves.

  89. 89
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Sab: I did that same program at camp when I was 11 or 12. Hunter safety education or something. .22LR rifles and shotguns. When you finished you got a certificate and a certification card.

  90. 90
    Ruckus says:

    @Sab:
    Well they weren’t doing any thinking anyway, too busy praying for a Brinks truck to back up to the front door and leave a large bag of $100.00 bills. A very large bag. You know that they just deserve that don’t you?

  91. 91
    Jack the Second says:

    @patrick II: I thought everyone knew “responsible gun owner” was code for “white”?

  92. 92

    @Mary G: I am surprised he has not yet been tagged by the me too movement. After all he was one of handsy Charlie’s favorites.

  93. 93
    jl says:

    @jl: It’s a good thing this country threw off the sinister influence of that commie totalitarian John Adams, who thought everyone from poorest to richest should go to a local tax-financed public school.

  94. 94
    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman) says:

    @Ruckus:

    Disclaimer: I no longer own any firearms.

    So your saying that if a burglar breaks into my house, cuts the lock off my gun safe, steals a pistol and kills someone with it, I should be held liable??

    I’m for reasonable storage laws, but that’s a bit too far.

  95. 95
    jl says:

    @Jack the Second: Didn’t you mean ‘responsible non-criminal gun owner’?

  96. 96
    Jack the Second says:

    @Gex: If stolen and not reported, triple the liability. Bump it again for being unsecured.

  97. 97
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trollhattan: That was Rudy Giuliani attempting to explain and clarify to Chris Cuomo that what Rudy Giuliani had said to someone else was not how Cuomo understood when Cuomo played a clip of Rudy Giuliani telling Charlie Rose something different and then another clip of Rudy Giuliani contradicting what Rudy Giuliani told Charlie Rose in an interview with George Stephanapolous. So that was a quatro-Guiliani appearance!

  98. 98
    Duane says:

    They’re responsible all right enough. Responsible for supporting this crazed 2nd amendment death cult. Someone is responsible for a 17 year- old having guns. So responsible they should be charged as a participant in these deaths and injuries.

  99. 99
    🌷 Martin says:

    @trollhattan:

    Go kids, go! We’re counting on you because, sadly, we’re unable to do squat ourselves.

    QFT.

  100. 100
    MoxieM says:

    @Cacti: Hmmm, these’s something about these names. What could it be?

    @HeleninEire: My heart breaks for you.

    And, not for nothing, where I come from kids from Greek families generally imbibe hatred of nazi fucks with their breakfasts.

  101. 101
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Leto:

    I feel this is why mandatory pre-purchase training, with periodic refreshers, should be mandatory.

    I keep getting spam emails offering online concealed carry training.

    You can imagine how secure that makes me feel, knowing that there’s not even an actual person who checked to make sure the concealed carrier knew what the fuck they were doing.

  102. 102
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mary G:

    Tom Friedman needs to STFU

    Fixed it for you.

  103. 103
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mary G: This will not end well.

  104. 104
    Steve in the AIR says:

    Has anyone flown Delta this month and done the crossword puzzle? One of the clues [spoiler alert!] is “part of NRA” and the answer is of course “rifle”.

    Last month used Speaker Ryan to get “Paul”—lots of other ways to get that. Month before had a clue that was “Drudge Report, for example”.

    WTF Delta?

  105. 105
    geg6 says:

    @Jay:

    I love those kids with all my heart. I love them so much!

  106. 106
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I believe you were the one who presciently floated the multiple Rudy theory. It seems to be coming true. Why did no one tell Rudy about it?

    Should we nominate your a physics or medicine Nobel?
    Edit: what the hell, how about all them? That will get under Trump’s skin.

  107. 107
    debbie says:

    Already stated.

  108. 108
    geg6 says:

    @Mary G:

    And I love those kids, too.

  109. 109
    KithKanan says:

    @debbie: Hell, Steve Scalise didn’t even care when it was his own goddamn self.

  110. 110
    trnc says:

    @Elizabelle:

    On the bright side, it has been 3 months since Parkland. That’s a pretty healthy stretch between mass shootings, isn’t it?

    I hate to tell you this (believe me), but there have been 70 mass shootings in the US since Parkland.
    http://www.gunviolencearchive......s-shooting

  111. 111
    Ruckus says:

    @Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman):
    You make a good point.
    But I’m quite possibly in for that as well. Let’s look at this a bit. You purchase a reasonable gun safe. How many house burglars are going to be able to break into that? People have stolen entire small ATMs and tried to break into them without a lot of success. So if you have a reasonable gun safe, people are not going to be able to just carry that off, they are going to have to bring some fairly unusual tools with them to break into it. I’ve been a machinist for a long time, I can cut hardened metal, even do so with pretty good precision, did so yesterday, and I’d have to work damn hard to be successful, as breaking into a decent safe is not easy, no matter what you see in the movies.
    Now this is an issue in that only the reasonably wealthy will be able to purchase a reasonably strong safe and have that delivered and installed. I’m not sure I’d go for that. Maybe we could have a tax that is collected, from gun/ammo sales, say 300%, that helps defray the cost to needy people who just have to purchase a gun.

  112. 112
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steve in the AIR: Clearly a conspiracy. Have you considered reaching out to Alex Jones?

  113. 113
    jl says:

    @trnc: Approaching the one a day milestone. Ghastly mess.

  114. 114
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Given the subject matter, I’m understandably reluctant to use the phrase “trigger warning” — just know that the link below is to FTFNYT. That said, it’s a very good, very long, opinion piece on guns by Nicholas Kristof, laden with easy-to-comprehend country-by-country and state-by-state graphs on gun ownership, gun violence, and gun restrictions.

    I said it was a long read, and it is. Near the end, this jumped out at me (my emphasis):

    If you’re wondering how we managed to crank out all these charts and data in the immediate aftermath of the Texas shooting, here’s the secret: We didn’t. We spent weeks gathering the information and preparing the charts, because we knew that there would be a tragedy like this one to make it all relevant.

    That’s the blunt, damning truth: Friday’s school shooting was 100 percent predictable. After each such incident, we mourn the deaths and sympathize with the victims, but we do nothing fundamental to reduce our vulnerability.

    It’s worth reading the whole piece.

  115. 115
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: I’m still working the explanation out. I’m not sure if this is a purely infinite number of Rudy sort of thing – the InfiniRudy – or if there us a hard limit. Say DC Comics 52 parallel universes in the multiverse. That, of course, would include the Earth-3 universe where Rudy would be a quiet, pleasant, highly competent individual and Special Counsel Mueller would be an obnoxious, ignorant, raving blowhard.

    I need to order more white boards from Amazon!

  116. 116
    jl says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Trumpist logic would tell us that is evidence Kristoff had foreknowledge, is involved somehow, and should be arrested. Besides that is, he is a critic, and we do’n’t like the critics.

  117. 117
    Ruckus says:

    @jl:

    Why did no one tell Rudy about it?

    Which Rudy do you tell? They seem to be multiplying by the minute, like replicants, so is it even possible to tell one of them something and have the others even know or understand?

  118. 118
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Steve in the AIR:

    I hope Mrs. in the ATL is better. Have been thinking about her and wishing her the best.

  119. 119
    Ruckus says:

    @KithKanan:
    You think he might be worth more to the NRA alive or dead? I’d bet he’s going with alive.

  120. 120
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Don’t give away your secrets. You’ll blow the patent application.

    What do you think of a ‘public trespass fee’, preferably contracted out to a corporation, in order to prevent shootings, and in order to prevent loss of our unlimited guns and ammo freedom? Troubled teens would not be able to afford to wander around in public, as if they had any business doing that. Also keep troublemakers out of Congresspoeple’s offices. Violators could be forced to work off the debt.

    Edit: you’ve given away so much that commenter Ruckus is hot on your tail, R&Dwise.

  121. 121
    trnc says:

    @jl: No kidding. When I first looked at the list, I was afraid that’s what I would find.

  122. 122
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Speaking of Alex Jones, which I almost never do: Did you see this fine bit of Jonesian in(s)anity?

    (H/T Wonkette)

  123. 123
    debbie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    InfiniRudy

    Quick, trademark that!

  124. 124
    trollhattan says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    So that was a quatro-Guiliani appearance!

    Four too many Giulianis! I will never consider tortellini quatro formaggio in quite the way same, again.

  125. 125
    Mary G says:

    The WaPo has a very badly edited article up with the headline of “<a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/18/2018-has-been-deadlier-for-schoolchildren-than-service-members/?utm_term=.4230b437a7c9“>2018 has been deadlier for schoolchildren than service members.” The numbers for the military and the alleged chart are missing. Evidently they wrote it, then a military person said they hadn’t counted some, and they rewrote it but sloppily to say the least.

    But even if the figures aren’t there, this is still a terrible state of affairs.

  126. 126
    rikyrah says:

    was it confirmed that there were bombs?
    If so, where did he get the bombs?
    Daddy too?
    You know, this mentally ill lone wolf

    lips pursed.

  127. 127
    trnc says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’m not sure if this is a purely infinite number of Rudy sort of thing – the InfiniRudy – or if there us a hard limit. Say DC Comics 52 parallel universes in the multiverse.

    As if Marvel wasn’t already kicking DC’s ass all over the cinema.

  128. 128
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷:

    The father needs to be held accountable for this. He needs to be charged with something because he’s just as responsible for this as is son is.

    “Criminally negligent” works for me. Does “criminally negligent” work for you?

  129. 129
    trnc says:

    @trollhattan:

    Four too many Giulianis!

    I think we can all agree one is too many, eh?

  130. 130
    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman) says:

    @Ruckus:

    That wouldn’t be a bad idea as a good Misty Morn gun safe isn’t cheap.

    The $150 or so sheet metal “safes” aren’t all that secure from a criminal standpoint though they are good to keep your kids from playing with your guns.

    Unless the kid is looking to do a massacre of course and doesn’t care if you find out he’s gotten to the guns.

  131. 131
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: I’m not sure that’s going to solve the problem.

  132. 132
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Someone is in serious need of a 72 hour evaluatory hold!

    ETA: added hour. We apologize for any inconvenience!

  133. 133
    geg6 says:

    @Kay:

    I think they are right. I work every day with kids just that age and older and it is obvious to me. And someone can spot these kids, don’t tell me whocoodanode. We all know who on campus is having problems. Granted, we are a small campus and don’t have the restraints that high schools have in intervening. But we pay attention, we engage them and we do pretty well in heading off any problems that are threading to escalate. The only shooting we’ve ever had on my campus was by an abusive ex-husband who murdered his ex-wife, a chef in food services, and then killed himself with a semi-auto this past winter. Happened so fast that the campus cops, who were about 30 feet away in their office, didn’t have time to react. Took all of about 12 seconds. I know because it happened right outside my office window. We’ve had kids who we were worried might do something like this, but we were proactive and, mostly, kept them in school and helped them get their lives together. It was an angry, white fully adult male who we had no ability to intervene with who caused our tragedy. We have to give our schools the ability to provide the sort of help we are able to give our college students. We have 700 students and we employ a full-time personal counselor and two part-timers just to handle our kids psychological needs. It’s not cheap, but we think it’s worth it. High schools (and even all the lower grades) have the same need.

    Plus, we need to do something about all the fucking guns.

  134. 134
    rikyrah says:

    Daniel Dale
    ‏Verified account @ddale8

    For all the “Democrats need a message other than being anti-Trump” talk: new analysis finds he’s been mentioned in just 27% of Dem campaign ads for Congress this year; over the same period in 2014, Obama was mentioned in about 60% of Republican ads:

  135. 135
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @rikyrah: And I guarantee that HRC, Nancy Pelosi, President Obama, George Soros, and/or Chuck Schumer are being mentioned in a majority of GOP campaign ads.

  136. 136
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    The … M-M-M-Masons??? WTF?? Okay, we are now officially through the map and off the looking glass.

  137. 137
    trnc says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yup, although really, what could a trained professional learn during a session that he can’t see in every youtube clip of Jones that exists?

  138. 138
    Mary G says:

    Mueller has now subpoenaed another flunky of Roger Stone’s. Hope it means he will be charged.

  139. 139
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Alex won’t last 72 years. Oh you meant hours. That’s not even close enough for Alex. 72 days? Not going to cut it, It would have to be 72 months minimum, with an extension for up to 72 years.

  140. 140
    MomSense says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I fucking loathe these death eaters. I cannot be rational at this point. My son was at Model United Nations for the past three days. I got my school pick up signals crossed so I showed up at the school an hour and 15 minutes early (I didn’t know that) and the bus wasn’t there so I went in the school to see if there were any updates. I walked right in, went down the hallway past five or six classrooms, and no one stopped me. No one asked me who I was. It was the least secure place I’ve been in months and I routinely visit courthouses, jails, and hospitals. I felt panic and such anguish that schools can no longer be safe, happy, and open community centers. Schools should not be jails or courthouses.

    That asshole lieutenant governor who said there were too many entrances and exits can suck it. I do not want to participate in this grotesque gun culture anymore. The gun fanatics have proved beyond a reasonable doubt that they cannot responsibly handle the freedom they have been given. I want to bring back the WELL REGULATED part of the second amendment.

  141. 141
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: That’s supposed to be 72 hours, sorry, I’ve corrected it.

  142. 142
    KithKanan says:

    @Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman): Eh, I’m personally fine with it. You have every right to keep a gun in your home, but you’re fully responsible for everything that happens with it as a matter of strict liability until you legally transfer it to another owner.

    Don’t want to take that risk? Store your gun securely, either in a high quality/expensive gun safe in your home or outside your home in an appropriately secure gun club. Not sure on whether you or the designated management of the gun club should go to prison if your gun is stolen from your gun club and used in a crime, but one of the two of you should.

  143. 143
    El Caganer says:

    I don’t get it. It took the Australians one mass shooting (Port Arthur) and they got their shit together. Yes, there have been shootings since then, but they have a handle on it. Of course, we all know what wimps Aussies are, don’t we……

  144. 144
    MoxieM says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: That’s just so fucking 19th c. I mean really… 1826 anyone?

    I’m so upset about today I could spit.

  145. 145
    Gvg says:

    We need to change the culture the way MADD did and anti smoking ads we all know. The thing I want to come up with is warning tickets that happen before tradgedies so costs go up on merely careless and authorities get warning to try intervention ahead of time. Not just cops but Counselors too. We also need to figure out rules of what we are going to do about certain things.
    Domestic violence, no guns for years and even restoring takes psych evaluation several over years.
    Drunk with a gun, no guns for a time, treatment mandatory, possible jail escalating sentences.
    Gun cleaning accident, fines, insurance penalty, no guns for a year? Gun safety course?
    Brandishing, going about showing off gun insisting on taking it everywhere but really enjoying intimidating others, fines counseling, loss of gun rights for a time. Must show remorse.
    Any other ideas?
    Mass shooters are only part of the problem.
    Oh, must allow all studies and statistics on gun related deaths and injuries to be kept again.

  146. 146
    dimmsdale says:

    @MomSense: thanks for that, Momsense. To the gun-humper sneer “what part of ‘shall not be infringed’ do you not understand’, the response “What part of ‘well regulated militia’ do YOU not understand?” will do nicely. Well said.

  147. 147
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @El Caganer: There’s been exactly one mass shooting. A murder-suicide in a small town/village about a week ago. Every other mass murder or killing has been with some other weapon and there have been less than ten total since the post Port Arthur reforms.

  148. 148
    Ruckus says:

    @Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman):
    When I used to do sub contract machine work for the aerospace industry I had to keep a safe to lock up the info when it wasn’t otherwise needed. The type of “safe” wasn’t an issue, one of those sheet metal cabinets that are in every industrial business in the world, with a lock that could be opened by the force of a medium sized child was OK. But then what was supposed to be locked up might have been secret but it wasn’t deadly, at least not without an air force and a mfg chain to make it work and a dramatically larger amount of info and money. That gun (and of course ammo) that gets stolen can be deadly in less than 5 seconds.

  149. 149
    cain says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Also apparently, he likes Cthuhlu as well.

  150. 150
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @cain: Who doesn’t?

  151. 151
    El Caganer says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I read about that one; one mass shooting in – what, 22 years? It just goes to show – REAL MEN and FREEDUMB LOVERS wouldn’t move to some cuck backward place like Australia. Nossir! Rights that WILL NOT BE INFRINGED! (Shit, I’m running out of capital letters; help me out here, people.)

  152. 152
    trnc says:

    @El Caganer: Can’t help you. All the capital letters in my area are used up on craigslist by churches looking for musicians.

  153. 153
    VeniceRiley says:

    Guns ownership should require mandatory insurance. Models that attract violent buyers, homes that have teen boys inside, males in general … all would become more expensive. Prior misuse history, a criminal record, all would make for some very expensive insurance. Prohibitively, in many cases.
    Conversely, safety class passage would make for a cheaper insurance. That sort of thing.
    Plus, we’d have another topic for our resident insurance expert to opine on. Let the eyes glaze over!

  154. 154
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Wasn’t commenting on the lack of hours, only on that Alex Jones will need a hold a lot longer than 72 hrs, which of course was the intent of the comment. When I worked at a mental health center we were told that getting a 72 hr hold on someone was damn near impossible. Basically it had to be obvious to the average citizen that it was necessary. And it’s possible that the average citizen quite possibly needed his own 72 hr hold. Which made it even harder to convince a judge to grant the hold. IOW I’m familiar with the hold situation.

  155. 155
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Van Buren: If you got to be god would ypu listen to those assholes? Especially knowing they could fix most people f this easily and are too damn spineless to do it?

  156. 156
    FlyingToaster says:

    @Starfish:

    The tech libertarians are all condescending because they send their kids to private school, and this would never happen in their private school. A private school where this happens would be shut down with a quickness. Public schools have to accept everyone, and private schools do not.

    So not fucking true.

    My daughter’s private school gets threats all the fucking time. There is one entrance open in the morning, all of the rest require school keys (i.e., full-time faculty & staff only). The door is locked at 15-minutes past start, and stays locked until 5:30, when all students leave and the evening tenants (we rent out the school for evening classes and community meetings and one athletic league) take over.

    The school would not be shut down, if a shooter came during morning drop-off or shot his way into the building. We dealt with the fucking Tsarnaevs, we’ll deal if we somehow get some Texas asswipe thinking he doesn’t have to obey Massachusetts laws and decides to revenge himself by shooting up a private school.

    You are correct that private schools don’t have to take everyone. But if they don’t take anyone, they go out of business.

  157. 157
    YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S) says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Of course it is Masons. Think of all the walls we would need to build.//

  158. 158
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    @Ruckus: “But I’m quite possibly in for that as well. ”

    Absolutely. I mean, why not? Anyone who wants to avoid that scenario can simply not own guns. Like 60% of the population does. All of the onus of responsibility for the damage that guns do in our society needs to be laid squarely at the feet of those who insist on owning them. They CHOSE to own an instrument of death. Nobody (ahem) put a gun to their head…and forced them to.

  159. 159
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @HeleninEire:

    That is awful, Helen. Beyond heartbreaking.

  160. 160
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Mary G:

    Well THIS gives me great pleasure. And hope.

  161. 161
    YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S) says:

    @VeniceRiley:

    Mandatory insurance…Models that attract violent buyers, homes that have teen boys inside, males in general … all would become more expensive.

    Maybe we could mandate that all guns be pink? Non pink weapons could be subject to the same penalties as illegally short ones. Only half kidding.

  162. 162
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman):

    Personally, I would be okay saying that if someone immediately files a police report when they have a gun stolen, they would get a lesser penalty (maybe just a fine or a mandatory gun safety class like traffic school) if that gun then gets used in a crime.

    What seems to happen currently is that a gun is carelessly lost or is stolen by a family member and the person who is the legal owner tries to claim that it was stolen after a crime is committed with it. IMO, you should have to report that theft and file a police report immediately. The longer you wait, the more penalties there should be.

  163. 163
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @MoxieM:
    @YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S):

    I will never be able to listen to Die Zauberflöte quite the same way.

  164. 164
    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman) says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I never had a gun stolen, but if I had, it would have been reported immediately because guns aren’t cheap and I’m not rich enough to shrug off the loss.

    In the case of the Curio & Relic guns, IIRC, I was required by law to report any theft to both the local police and the BATF&E, and God help me if my bound book wasn’t in order.

    IMHO, there should be no penalty for immediately reporting a theft, as we want to encourage reporting, not discourage it.

    If you wait until the cops ask you about the gun, then penalties come into play.

  165. 165
    Ruckus says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    The length of time after the theft is immaterial. A gun doesn’t go bad just from age. Sure it can rust if stored in a dampish or wet environment but the bits and parts do not just suddenly decay like say a sandwich left on the kitchen counter. But if you steal one tomorrow you can use it in a crime 10 yrs from now and it still is an issue. Or it can be stolen several times and used.
    Now there is a problem and that is that we’ve had guns for so long that probably a dramatically large percentage have never been registered. When I hunted, none of mine were. At the time you walked into a store and bought a gun. If you paid cash there was no paper trail at all.
    The point is that the gun can still kill years later and it’s trip to being a killing machine started when it was stolen. Never stolen then the person who has it is still directly responsible for it’s use. Stolen he is indirectly responsible.

  166. 166
    eemom says:

    Today’s murderer is a Greek kid. That’s neither there nor here wrt the discussion, of course….just adds a personal touch to my horror and outrage.

  167. 167
    Steve in the AIR says:

    @Adam L Silverman: perhaps he will make an appearance next month, along with “good guy with a ___”

    Fly the friendly skies!

  168. 168
    MomSense says:

    @eemom:

    He’s also a neo Nazi which is doubly disgusting given how valiantly the Greeks fought the Nazis.

  169. 169
    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman) says:

    @YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S):

    You haven’t seen the Hello Kitty AR15, have you? 😀

  170. 170
    The Fat Kate Middleton says:

    Text to my very “responsible gun owner” son: “Get grandson’s .22 rifle out of the house, and any other guns you may have.” Grandson is a Boy Scout with a Gun Safety badge. Don’t care. He’s also a kid with explosive anger issues. Don’t care. Get em out. I’m sure I’ll be ignored.

  171. 171
    Ruckus says:

    @eemom:
    Given the last two or three centuries of migration and immigration of the world I wouldn’t take too much upon yourself of a person having the same general background as you.
    As far as I know I have Italian/Sicilian, Scotch/Irish, Native American, and probably several others of unknown possible dubious origins. And I’m not responsible for the people that were in my immediate family, let alone the rest of the world. I refuse to take that responsibility personally, I have enough of that to do in my own right.

  172. 172
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ruckus:

    It’s more the people who never bother to check on their guns, and when one turns up at a crime scene, they say, Gosh, it must have been stolen! How did that happen?

    That’s why prompt reporting should be encouraged.

  173. 173
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman):

    IMHO, there should be no penalty for immediately reporting a theft, as we want to encourage reporting, not discourage it.

    If you wait until the cops ask you about the gun, then penalties come into play.

    Yeah, I’m not as hard-core as Ruckus. 😉 We should be encouraging people to report thefts or even just accidental losses ASAP to try and recover the stolen guns before they get resold on the black market.

  174. 174
    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman) says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    even just accidental losses

    Twenty years ago I would have laughed at the idea of accidentally losing a gun.
    Now that I’m over 50 I could see it happening to me. 😀

  175. 175
    Kay says:

    @geg6:

    I worry about them. I wonder why they’re attracted to this, why they display these weapon collections online and the t shirts, how they get there, to that specific marker on the road, to the “display weapons on my bed” stage. They’re killing other kids, in that sense the violence isn’t random- it’s by kids directed at kids. It’s not like they never go other places- they go to malls and concerts and all sorts of places, but they target schools. Adam Lanza hadn’t been in a school for years. Why did he go back to one? I mean obviously that’s where kids are but that just takes me back to why are they shooting children when they are children?

  176. 176
    Jay says:

    @Kay:

    Quite often, it starts with FPSG’s online. They “engage” with other players, and somebody mentions a “cool” site. They start adopting more extreme positions and language in the games, and online for the Lutz, trolling for the “fun of it”. Bit, by bit, they go deeper and darker on the web, and at each stage, there are people online, egging them on, pointing them in directions, “nurturing” them.

    It’s called stochastic terrorism, and it’s pretty much all the same form of “recruitment” and “indoctrination” on line, be it MGTOW’s, Nazi’s, Flat Earthers or ISIS.

  177. 177
    Jack the Second says:

    @YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S): Toy guns should all be fluorescent blue, real guns neon pink. Not just one part (eg, the tip) or different shades of blue, a uniform, mandated blue. Movie guns should be uniformly eggplant, and illegal to possess or carry when not filming a movie.

  178. 178
    eemom says:

    @MomSense:

    He’s also a neo Nazi which is doubly disgusting given how valiantly the Greeks fought the Nazis.

    Yes, and thank you for saying that. It has particular resonance for me, as my mother and her family survived the Nazi invasion of Crete, which refused to surrender even after Athens did.

    @Ruckus:

    Thanks to you as well. It’s not so much that I take responsibility; it just depresses the hell out of me.

  179. 179
    Ruckus says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    No, I’m saying it should be required to be reported. Either you control your weapons or you don’t. If the answer is they don’t then they are responsible. Full stop.
    You don’t leave it out in the driveway, like your car and you generally notice if your car is missing and report it asap. And your car may be but generally isn’t used as a weapon when it’s stolen. They steal your weapon, that’s the only thing it can be used for, a weapon.
    If you don’t know for months or years that it’s stolen, how fucking smart are you and how safe might you be with a killing device? (Probably safer with it stolen than having no idea where it is.)

  180. 180
    Ruckus says:

    @eemom:
    I thought that might be it. Really though I consider borders to be a lot more fungible than they were 50 yrs or more ago. Take the US. Some now, for reasons that escape actual thought, seem to think that our border should be a wall that is quite tall and impenetrable. That we are a country that can exist without the rest of the world. And that’s bullshit. It’s the same for all countries, we can no longer live in our little enclaves as totally separate communities, separate from each other. Isolation, be it societal or governmental hasn’t worked for over a hundred years. Thinking it will is not going to make it so. Yes we lose some of what makes us unique, Greeks, Italians, etc, etc but that’s what happens when the world’s population gets to be huge. Like 7+billion huge. No one place can effectively do everything for it’s population. So those populations become less restrictive and more open or they fail their citizens. That’s what conservatism is all about, protecting that which was different, trying to stop progress, when all that can really happen is to slow it down slightly and make a fucking mess.

  181. 181
    Ruckus says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    @Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman):
    I appreciate your points but the problem is that a gun can be used only for one thing. Killing or at least attempting to kill. Now this may not be what you think a gun is used for but take it from someone who has had to carry a loaded one, my orders were to shoot to kill if I thought it was necessary. But that’s the point of stealing a gun out of your home/car, you now have a killing weapon that can only be traced to you if you leave incriminating evidence when you steal it or if you get caught using it. And if you don’t get caught it is free. That getting caught has to start somewhere. And the only person who can start that is the person it is stolen from.
    Let me ask a question. If someone broke into your house and all they took was one gun, wouldn’t you know that they had entered your home? Wouldn’t you look to see what’s missing? If you left your guns out in the open or say a night stand drawer, wouldn’t you check? If you had a proper safe don’t you think you’d notice if it was missing or broken into? Have an acquaintance who keeps a gun by his chair in case someone breaks in when he’s watching TV. Of course he leaves it there when he goes to bed and one night he heard someone rummaging around in his house. They got scared off before they found the gun, but what if they had found it first? Would they have shot him or just stolen it and run? He’s not going to chase them, he’s 80. Had they just stolen it and left, what would they do with it next? If they had shot him, well he wouldn’t have made it to 80.

  182. 182
    Steve in the AIR says:

    @Ruckus: here’s my plan:

    1. Buy gun
    2. Hide gun
    3. Invite Ruckus over for a visit
    4. Report gun stolen, implicating but not directly accusing Ruckus
    5. Commit crime using gun at a time when Ruckus has no alibi
    6. Profit!

  183. 183
    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman) says:

    @Steve in the AIR:

    7. Steve gets arrested because the police twigged onto the post above.

    I would have thought that a lawyer would know better than to post evidence online. 🤔

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