? Eric Schneiderman resigns ? pic.twitter.com/s8zzNikYz6
— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) May 8, 2018
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by David Anderson| 154 Comments
This post is in: All we want is life beyond the thunderdome, Bring On The Meteor
? Eric Schneiderman resigns ? pic.twitter.com/s8zzNikYz6
— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) May 8, 2018
Continue talking
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Calouste
Let’s just say that no one resigns within hours of allegations coming out if those allegations are not true.
Jackie
Wow, that didn’t take long!
Elizabelle
Good. I appreciate his speed and resolution on this. No death by 1,000 cuts.
lamh36
Corner Stone
@Calouste: He’s a Democrat. He had no support and he knew it.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Calouste:
“No, it’s the evil SJWs that have stabbed that beta-cuck in the back!”
lamh36
Ugh…it’s John FUQ’N Edwards all over again…smh
I hate the facts of political life, but it’s totally true that OKIYAR!!!
thread here:
Mary G
@lamh36: Ronan Farrow is a heck of a writer. I am reading his profile of Richard Holbrooke in Politico Magazine:
cmorenc
@lamh36:
While you’re writing that Trump article Ronan, be sure to include a long section about Mike Pence. We need both of these pricks to resign. Pence is for all the same evil stuff Trump is pushing, only he puts a softer, more presentable face on it. But same ugly crap underneath.
zhena gogolia
@lamh36:
Yeah, that ain’t going to happen.
lamh36
@Elizabelle: It’s not over…Don Jr re-tweeted it, Conway re-tweeted it w/”Gotch” caption…Ingraham tweeted bout it with a direct quote from Gillebrand in support of Schneidermann back in the day…
and apparently this has been an open or swirling secret since at least 2013 when Chump himself tweeted about Schneidermann being worse than Weiner/Spitzer…
Jeffro
Fuck Schneiderman and good riddance.
Now then…’next man up’, as they say…the acting AG better be ready to press those state charges against Trumpov and his Organization.
randy khan
@Calouste:
QFT
A little part of me is imagining him getting texts from other former girlfriends saying that they’ve just talked to Farrow, just as a heads up, since you know that it wasn’t just these four. Another part of me is hoping (not with much conviction) that it really was just these four.
mai naem mobile
I am not saying he didn’t do this and I’m glad he resigned. I just find the timing interesting. He’s been around for at least 10 years. The story just happens to drop when Dolt45 is in big trouble with the NYAG and needs a distraction from the money laundering real estate story and the finding dirt on the Obama guys to get out of the Iran deal.
lamh36
@lamh36: It won’t end here…Rudy joining the legal team, has “political strategy” written all over it…while the out of focus lawyers are working the legal angle, Rudy is on tv, and working the “political oppo” angle…so expect more.
randy khan
@lamh36:
Someone should ask Don the lesser when his dad is going to resign, then.
Major Major Major Major
This should be a fun thread to skip.
Let me just say I’m glad for the swift resolution.
mai naem mobile
Also too, hope Preet Bharara runs for Governor after there’s a thorough investigation into his background .
Doug R
So why is it called a siren when it’s really a flashing or spinning light?
Major Major Major Major
@Doug R: metonymy
tobie
@mai naem mobile: I suspect there’s a story to the story, too. If I’m understanding correctly, the NYTimes contacted the accusers before Farrow and Mayer were in touch with them. If that is true, someone tipped off the NYT. we deserve to know the political backdrop to this story if there is one. Otherwise the reporting is incomplete. C’mon Jane Mayer! You’re too good a journalist to leave this piece out.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Trump has certainly been the apocalypse for the rich white male douch bag, hasn’t he? The irony.
Jerrt
I fear this will overshadow the big news that Melania is now the latest Trump point-person on “combatting Opioid Addiction”, after Jared and then Kellyanne.
SO MUCH WINNING in handling this hot-potato.
lamh36
@mai naem mobile: Like I said in the previous thread…one can be both outraged about what folks have been able to get away with, and also a wee bit suspicious of the timing of it all..
Anyone with half a brain should be suspicious
Mnemosyne
As I was saying in the thread below, any Dem who has a skeleton in the closet needs to talk about it NOW rather than hoping nobody has that dirt on them. Somebody has that dirt. Do it now rather than letting it blow up in your face. Nobody can blackmail you with your secret if you expose it first.
Steve in the ATL
@lamh36: damn straight
Mary G
Zendaya kills it at the Met Gala in a Joan of Arc inspired dress.
Also, this tweet John retweeted cracked me up, because it has a warning for sensitive material.
It’s a picture of a deli or supermarket selling collard greens with raisins.
Ruckus
@lamh36:
That the republican goons were retweeting it means nothing. If they had any real idea or knowledge they would have ratfucked this long ago.
Peale
@lamh36: yep. This is as much about damaging the Democrats around him as anything.
lamh36
@Ruckus: Trump tweeted about Schneidermann, in 2013…my money says Trump had oppo reseach then…but likely saving it for when he REALLY needed it to laud over Schneidermann..
lamh36
FUQ it…I’m done with this shit…smh…I have lost faith in Mueller and this entier process. I am now firmly in the camp that says all this will come for naught…so its time to practice self-care, and do something else with my time…I’ve got a FUQ’N trip to get ready for…ugh…
Anyway, so I’m watching the re-broadcast of E’s Met Gala red carpet arrival show…so I can see the lewks and reactions in “real time”
Chadwick Boseman, Rihanna and Zendaya…came to SLAY!
https://twitter.com/psddluva4evah/status/993661244535136256
p.a.
Who is next
manup for his investigations? Or is a new appointment needed?? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
Reposting from below:
I recommend refusing to recognize the GOP’s legitimacy as a political party if the House doesn’t flip this November. It’s an historical pattern that the president’s party loses an average of 32 seats. Protests, sit-ins, the works at the Capitol. Make it impossible for them to do their jobs (what little they do already) and harass them. Make it painfully clear to the public they are a fascist party that must be removed from power.
B.B.A.
@Mnemosyne: Presuming they have the self-awareness to even know there are skeletons.
Weinstein and Cosby still insist they did nothing wrong.
SiubhanDuinne
Schneiderman did the right thing — really, the only thing he could do.
I feel sick, and sad.
magurakurin
@Jeffro: yeah. Fuck him. You hit people…fuck you…you’re out. Game over.
Brachiator
@Jerrt:
At first, I read this as Melania on opioids. Now that would be breaking news.
Peale
@lamh36: up next, swinging Schumer.
lamh36
@tobie: my money is on Guliani…
magurakurin
@p.a.: One suggestion on Twitter just now…appoint Hillary Clinton to the job…hot damn, now wouldn’t that just be something. Obviously it’s not going to happen…but, damn, it sure would be awesome. She’s never been a prosecutor, though. Much better choices out there for sure… the suggestion is just for shits and giggles.
magurakurin
@Brachiator:
…but not entirely surprising. I mean, how much smack would you need to spike in order to be able to sleep with Donald Trump? I’d need A LOT.
lamh36
@Brachiator: The biggest consequence of the election of Chump…my well of compassion for anyone in this adminstration is dried up and only thing is dirt to fling in their face….
Platonailedit
@lamh36: If only the fucking fourth estate did its job, looking at you fynyt, the thug would have done some time long ago.
Ruckus
@lamh36:
I should have read the thread first.
I’m of two minds here.
I’d like this to not be true. But the stories sound realistic and there seems to be some type of evidence. And the immediate resignation sounds confirming.
But I can see that there might be another side here and that trying people in the news is not the way to run a justice system. Many here seem to be implying that he’s guilty just by his actions. He may be, he may deserve whatever punishment is handed out or even more.
But the timing is, what’s the word, amazing. Franken, now this? Have we become a nation with justice by gossip? Is that really better than no justice at all?
Brachiator
@lamh36:
Pope Rihanna. Love it.
Also, Zendaya reminds me that I have to rent The Greatest Showman.
TS (the original)
@cmorenc: Interesting how he writes all the stuff on democrats – guess trump will be a democrat when he resigns – hahahahaha – who am I kidding. trump will never resign – even when he loses an election or gets impeached.
craigie
Obviously not a Republican.
Ruckus
@magurakurin:
There isn’t enough dope in the entire fucking world.
Adam L Silverman
@p.a.: There will be a temporary appointment to serve out the term and the position was up in the November elections.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
As Handmaids are led into the Red Center, they can congratulate themselves on #MeToo taking out Franken, Schneiderman and Aziz Ansari on adult relationships, as well as really putting it to those entertainment guys about the casting couch and powerful liberals on being awkward daters…
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator:
Could you really blame her?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Ruckus:
#rushtojudgment #dueprocessmyass
Keith G
@Corner Stone: I don’t think it was about the amount of support. I read the New Yorker article. It was fucking hard read because of the violence.
Schneiderman is a sick puppy who was able to roll out his kinks under the protection of privileged status. Actually, I’m not sure if the term kinks is a good one to use since that makes it sound a bit playful and at sometimes appropriate.
His aggression toward those women and his wish to control them was chilling to me and dangerous to the women. The behavior that was described in the article needs to be answerable through the justice system. I hope that that avenue is investigated.
lamh36
Ok…this is just something that popped in my head not so much having to do with this story, but maybe…more of a legal thing I guess?
So.a few years ago when 50 Shades of Gray first became a phenom…there was ain influx in seaches and inquires and stuff about the BDSM lifestyle (50 Shades as many in the BDSM community said it was BDSM-lite)…
My question is, if you are in a true relationship…how would one guard against being accused of something after the relationship ended? Serious question, is there like a contract someone is supposed to sign? And even then if one does sign a contract…I just can’t imagine how it would actually matter in an abuse case? I freely admit, I know nothing about the lifestyle, but it just popped in my head…as a question for the BJ lawyer squad…
DISCLAMER: I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE CASE WITH SCNEIDERMANN…IT REALLY IS JUST HOW MY TRAIN OF “CONNECTING” THOUGHTS BRAIN WORKS…
Mnemosyne
@B.B.A.:
Weinstein and Cosby both know that what they did was wrong. They just think that they should be above the law. Getting away with illegal acts because they were too powerful to be called to account was half the thrill.
MJS
I’m sure this has been broached in the threads below, but this is way too much hand-wringing over someone 99.98% of Americans have never heard of. Is it great for any state level investigation that was happening? No, but it wasn’t Mueller, or Rosenstein or even Avenatti. In the overall scheme of things, this doesn’t mean much.
debbie
@lamh36:
I was with you until this:
Seriously, what does Scheiderman have to do with Mueller???
Barbara
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Who did you think would be the first to go? The difference here is that someone practices what they preach at least some of the time. And what would Democrats be able to say to Eric Greitens or even Trump if they just winked at this sort of thing when it’s in the house? This makes me very sad but there is no way I wish we were more like Republicans just so some powerful men who should have known better get to keep their power.
ETA: If you are saying women are better off if people like Schneiderman don’t face consequences, I categorically reject that.
Brachiator
@Ruckus:
The guy resigned. For me, this is now a non-issue unless the women want to pursue the case.
But come on. This is the age of the Internet. We demand instant judgement, even if the facts are not known. Hell, sometimes even when reality contradicts the conventional wisdom.
BTW, the Franken resignation bothered me. This one, not so much.
jayjaybear
I swear we’re getting to the point where Infinity War had a more hopeful ending than reality. Fuck this shit.
Corner Stone
@Keith G: Tell me another story, grampa. This time about Trump or Gov Greitens.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Google BDSM rules. You’ll get all the information you need.
Also, you’ll start getting ads for latex products when you’re browsing the web.//
PJ
@lamh36: Then please just leave and never come back with your chicken little despair.
Ruckus
@lamh36:
Kind of reenforces my point. If this is true it should have been out there long ago, he never should have gotten this far, he should have been tried long ago.
OK I really do understand that’s not the real world……
But this is bullshit.
Every day I see and hear this worse than useless asshole drumpf, bloviating about some bullshit that is a fucking lie or his press lier opens her yap and out falls more bullshit. This motherfucker is going to get us all blown up and screw up the only third world superpower.
lamh36
@debbie: I HAVE LOST FAITH IN THE ENTIRE PROCESS…PERIOD…
So I’m done being pressed about it…and that includes Mueller…all the weekly droppings and anticipations are exhausting…so I’m done being excited bout it…all
Keith G
@lamh36: My question to you is if you have read the New Yorker article.
If not, please do. That may help answer some of your questions. What is facing Schneiderman are several alleged victims and their contemporaneous reporting to others. Also there is a collection of other sources that bring information supportive of the alleged victims experience.
Mnemosyne
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Did you read the article? The majority of the allegations were about stuff he did while drunk and/or drugged, not during sex.
Schniederman done fucked up while he was fucked up, and he may not even remember doing it if the women are telling their stories accurately.
lamh36
@PJ: Do I know you?
Kay
I hate “Be Best” as a slogan. It’s just bad. It’s so typical of these people they can’t even understand what normal people would tell children.
It’s not about ” I win” or “I’m BEST” – it’s like the opposite of that. “I’m best” is actually the problem. “Me, me, me” is the problem. Donlad Trump doesn’t have to “be best”. He just has to pass the lowest possible bar and the reason he can’t do that is he’s always thinking about who is “best”. Not a competition. No one has to excel at basic decency. That isn’t how this works.
I can’t even believe this person has a staff and it took 2 years of work to come up with a slogan that entirely and completely misses the point, in fact, sort of goes in the other direction. They’re all not going to be “best” because that’s ridiculous. You really have to WORK to come up with an anti- bullying campaign that creates winners and losers among children who are attempting to be NICE to one another.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus: The immediate resignation is a sign of either guilt or a recognition that his ability to function effectively as AG was gone. If we never hear anymore about this, it will say one thing. If it gets pursued and there are lawsuits and prosecutions, it will say another. In either case, I don’t like that there were people on our side calling for his head within minutes of the story dropping and then saying that anyone who want to wait because of Franken was garbage.
PJ
@MJS: A money laundering investigation into the President and his business is something Americans haven’t heard of? Maybe if they don’t read the news (which, I guess, means, of course they haven’t heard of it.)
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@lamh36:
For the #MeToo mob, Fifth Shades is only good to the extent you get the handsome 20 something billionaire all to yourself forever. If he ever splits, particularly if he isn’t beautiful, you can recast the relationship years later as something involving a grotesque power imbalance – Gloria Allred will appear on tv for you and people will lionize your bravery.
Keith G
@Corner Stone: What’s your point and why are you calling me names? By the way I did turn 60 today not sure if that qualifies me as a grandpa but whatever.
Mnemosyne
@PJ:
Let her have her moment. We all do at some point. She’ll feel better if she gets away from the firehose of bullshit for a few days.
lamh36
@Keith G: @Keith G: my question to you:
what part of this did you not read?
FYI, I LITERALLY just saw a commercial for the last 50 Shades of Gray release…so..
B.B.A.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: did you get lost on the way to the MRA subreddit?
lamh36
@Keith G: my question to you:
what part of this did you not read?
FYI, I LITERALLY just saw a commercial for the last 50 Shades of Gray release…so..
PJ
@Omnes Omnibus: The New Yorker article was well-sourced, from victims who dated Schneiderman for extensive periods, and it was convincing. We can’t know if there is more to the story, but what was there was damning. I don’t think he had a choice to stay.
lamh36
@Keith G: my question to you:
what part of this did you not read?
FYI, I LITERALLY just saw a commercial for the last 50 Shades of Gray release…so..
@Keith G: my question to you:
what part of this did you not read?
https://media.giphy.com/media/UBMCJMyDXYo4U/giphy.gif
Omnes Omnibus
@PJ: Who are you? I would hazard a guess that she is worth 10 of you as a commenter.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
Speaking of Franken, who is his successor and why is she invisible? What did #MeToo accomplish there?
hueyplong
I’ll bet Mikey Cohen isn’t bored, and tired of Mueller moving so slowly.
Buck up, jackals.
lamh36
FUQ’N MODERATION!!!!!
What part of this did you not read?
DISCLAMER: I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE CASE WITH SCNEIDERMANN…IT REALLY IS JUST HOW MY TRAIN OF “CONNECTING” THOUGHTS BRAIN WORKS…
FYI, I LITERALLY just saw a commercial for the last 50 Shades of Gray release…so..
lamh36
FUQ’N MODERATION1!!!
Raven Onthill
Charles Pierce has inaugurated an #HRCforNYAG campaign on Twitter. Let’s get on board!
Barbara
@Omnes Omnibus: You pretty much said what I think. Also, people drink too much. I lived with several blackout drunks in college and it scared me so much I almost never drank unless I was with very close friends.
Mnemosyne
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
You may need to talk to a few people who are actually into the BDSM scene. They fucking hate Fifty Shades because it totally ignores consent and becomes abuse very quickly. Anyone who takes that book as their BDSM model will get in trouble with the law very quickly, and deservedly so.
MJS
@PJ: The money laundering story is only now getting legs, but regardless, I was referring to Schneiderman, not the story. Before tonight, very few people knew who he was. Two weeks from now, no one will care.
PJ
When our commenter-souls are weighed, feel free to press your thumb on whichever side of the scale makes you happy.
Brachiator
@lamh36:
Some of this is simple. As far as I can see by the article, none of these women are saying that sex play got out of hand. They are saying that they were abused and intimidated independent of any intimate “session.”
But an accusation could happen after any kind of relationship. I’m not sure that you could guard against it. You have to depend on the goodwill of the former partner.
However, any negative accusation tends to be reinforced when there is a long line of former lovers who independently tell the same story of abuse or bad behavior.
Barbara
@Raven Onthill: No. Preet Bharara would be my choice, but I am sure there are others as well.
Omnes Omnibus
@Raven Onthill: Is she licensed in NY?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Barbara:
Greitens is still governor. Trump is POTUS.
afanasia
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Ahh, the dreaded slippery slope…. Should we put up with any amount of fear, injury or humiliation rather than let you feel uncomfortable? Women’s lives matter, too.
Kay
“Let’s move”. Let us. US. WE will move. Together. Not about being the best mover and knocking those other losers out.
See? It’s not that hard. It’s intuitive for most people. There’s no dog eat dog concept in children’s slogans. It’s win/win.
lamh36
@Brachiator: As you know, I loved it, and that’s in SPITE of the PT Barnum angle…can’t wait to hear what you think..
ETA: Oh and Black Panther comes out on digital tomorrow, and BluRay/DVD next week…I’ve already pre-ordered it on digital, but I’m thinking I also want the DVD/Blu Ray hard copy w/booklet..
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
The two things that tipped me to, Oh, shit, I think he may be guilty were that the accusers seemed to be pretty consistent in saying that he was drinking and/or taking pills when he was abusive, which could mean that he doesn’t actually remember doing it, and that the immediate statement from his office was about consensual BDSM, which was not what he was being accused of in the story.
I am also suspicious of the timing, but I think he did it. Mary G was saying that she expects him to check into rehab bright and early tomorrow morning, and I would not be at all surprised if that’s what he does.
B.B.A.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Replaced a national poster child for sexual harassment with a solid NAY vote. That accomplished plenty.
afanasia
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Ahh, the dreaded slippery slope…. Should we put up with any amount of fear, injury or humiliation rather than let you feel uncomfortable? Women’s lives matter, too.@B.B.A.: @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I do love the pie option on here. I am very tired of you :)
eemom
I’m so old, I remember when Eliot Spitzer was nailed with Lordy-tapes that proved, as in PROVED, that he bought sex services for himself while busting prostitution rings…and Democrats were crying foul over ratfuckery.
Times sure have changed.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
I skipped Greatest Showman, but then I saw Keala Settle slay the Oscars audience with “This Is Me” and now I want to see it.
Amir Khalid
@Ruckus:
I agree. Also, Schneiderman’s resignation should not forestall any investigation into his conduct with women, especially if any of it might turn out to be criminal. This should not be about getting anyone’s scalp, it should be about getting at the facts.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: I would not be remotely surprised if the allegation turned out to be true. But there is the other possible explanation that I mentioned. As a result, I will withhold judgment. I don’t oppose his resignation because either reason justifies it. If some want to call me garbage because of this, I will just have to live with it.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
It bothered me more as well. The evidence that we saw and the fact that I used to be on a first name basis with his main accuser. But I also saw a lot of guys at that time that seemed to have a lot less respect for her because of what she did for employment. She was at one time a Victoria Secret model. I never understood that. I also have a difficult time believing the Franken situation. I have less believing this. First because it sounds so much worse and for sure would be something that would be kept hidden. Franken didn’t try to hide anything, it was just the pressure was all consuming, from both sides.
This is a far more serious thing. And yet look at the difference between the two sides of our political life. Half the liberals are willing to draw and quarter this guy on an accusation and the conservative side wants to elect drumpf as a god for being an ignorant, moronic asshole his entire life. What the ever loving fuck?
@PJ:
Fuck you pal. She can stay and complain all she wants. Seeing as how she’s here every day bringing sunshine and joy, she’s entitled to a bit of doom and gloom now and again. You do a drive by and act like you own the place.
Once again, FUCK YOU PAL.
Brachiator
@lamh36:
The Greatest Showman is still in the box office top ten in the UK. They really love it. It’s definitely on my list. I might be able to get to it over the weekend, unless I go see The Avengers again.
There’s a booklet to go along with Black Panther. Hmmm. I don’t yet have a Blu Ray player. Now I’m tempted.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I don’t blame people for being suspicious, because there’s that timing thing. But I do currently lean more towards thinking he’s guilty, and that he probably needs a stint in rehab at a minimum.
Mnemosyne
@eemom:
Some dudes here got mad at me because I thought it was gross that Spitzer was basically blackmailing prostitutes into servicing him under (implied) threat of prosecution.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
My take as well.
As I’ve stated this seemed a lot worse than anything Franken is said to have done. And it seems that if it’s a hatchet job, it’s a damn good one.
I just don’t like rushing to judgement. But then on the same hand there is so much out there that has never seen the light of day and never will………
lamh36
@Mnemosyne: I really loved it actually…and I was surprised at how much I did…and as I’ve said before…I listened to the soundtrack almost DAILY after seeing the movie…Hugh Jackman is really good at the musical theatre stuff as good as he was as Wolverine!
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36:
And the truth comes out….
PJ
@Ruckus: Peace and Love to you, too, Pal
Ruckus
@lamh36:
I know you won’t like this but my inner 12 yr old hears Huge Jackoff every time I hear/read his name.
Just as a disclaimer, he is good and I’ve seen him interviewed, he seems like a genuine nice guy and sharp as well.
Brachiator
@Ruckus:
Wow. Small world.
The thing is, there are many women who have been ill treated by the men in their life, and are using this time to finally say enough. And this is going to have political implications. And the evil and the craven will exploit this for political advantage. There is no easy solution for this.
But I would never tell a woman (or man) who had been mistreated to shut up or even defer seeking justice for “the greater political good.” I know people who have counselled exactly that option. I can’t do it, even if it makes it harder for us to win elections. And it is not because I’m pure or special. It’s because I have friends who have been abused, and I have seen them carry fear and shame that should never have been their burden.
Ruckus
@PJ:
Hey asswipe, I wasn’t trying to be nice, don’t bother trying to return the favor.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
Exactly.
Read #104, I think we agree
Amir Khalid
@lamh36:
Hugh Jackman might have won an Oscar for Les Miserables, even against Daniel Day-Lewis as Abe Lincoln, if he had turned in a Bring Him Home as good as his Valjean’s Soliloquy and Who Am I.
Brachiator
@Ruckus:
On the Kermode and Mayo BBC film review show, they fondly call him “Huge Action!!”
And they note that he is very pleasant during interviews and film junkets.
PJ
@Ruckus: I didn’t want to be nice, either. But you have to live with your tiny, hateful self, and I don’t, which means I am far better off than you, and I am trying to be more compassionate to the less fortunate.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
I tend to trust your taste in movies ever since you recommended Edge of Tomorrow, so I’ll probably see it eventually.
I’m finally going to be able to get G out to see Black Panther in the next couple of weeks — between his 2-3 hour roundtrip between work and his internship, his classwork, and interviewing for a possible part-time job, he hasn’t had the time or energy to go out to the movies and see it. Especially since I am apparently Very Difficult to see a movie with, which I only found out last year after 17 years together. ?
Barbara
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: What’s your point? That we aren’t the same? Okay. I think I knew that. That the end game here transcends the harm to individual women along the way? It is BECAUSE Greitens is still governor and Trump is still president that it would be extreme folly to excuse wrongdoing. And let me say, I don’t know if Schneiderman committed a crime or wronged these women, or whether he was sober or drunk when these things happened. But I am not going to base my principles on whether Schneiderman gets to keep his job.
Corner Stone
@Keith G: Point being that we had Gary Hart, John Edwards torpedoed by sexual misconduct. Then WJC impeached for lying about a blowjob. Yet, GHWB had a multi-decade affair before, during and after the WH and we got nada about that. So tell me again how this matters because *facts* and not just because the political party. Trump is credibly accused of almost 20 instances of sexual misconduct including and up to child rape. Gov Greitens is accused of being a multiple rapist and sexual blackmailer. The fucking pedophile Roy Moore got almost 50% of the vote in AL!
Yet, somehow, Franken is accused of something I am not sure about, and Schneiderman has some really nasty shit said about him. And they both got poleaxed, immediately. Because they had no institutional support. Not support to kill a bad story but support to just say, “Hey. Let’s see where this goes and get it all on the table.” Neither one of those guys have their tiny thumbs seconds away from the nuclear codes. We couldn’t hear them out?
And Cuomo and Gillibrand (again) make me fucking cringe. If Schneiderman runs for NY GOV in a few years and then launches a presidential bid shortly thereafter he is a mortal threat to both Cuomo and Sen Gillibrand. It just fucking stinks.
As for the name calling, we’re not in those JFK days where the D party supported quiet and not so quiet dalliances. Now they gut you like a fucking fish because they want you out of the way.
Barbara
@lamh36: Sometimes I feel this way. Let me say, as I think I have before, that Mueller is not going to save us, and that in a lot of ways it is people like Rick Wilson and Tom Nichols who are relying on Mueller because they don’t want to upend the Republican establishment along the way to getting Trump to go away. That’s how we are different. We want as many Republicans gone from public office as possible, and the vehicle for doing that is elections. If the noise of daily events about Stormy or Mueller or Cohen becomes overwhelming, by all means, step back, and even better, start canvassing or donate money or do whatever it is you can do. That’s what really matters.
Steve in the ATL
@Corner Stone: and let’s not forget Diaper Dave Vitter (R-La) who stayed in the senate
Omnes Omnibus
@PJ: You may have noticed that more than one person took your shot at lamh as an asshole move. Learn from it. There are defeat-mongers hear, but she isn’t one. She gets to have a bad day once in a while.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
I don’t know about the blackmail. Spitzer paid tens of thousands of dollars for “high class” call girls. He was not getting his money’s worth. He got caught in part because investigators going after the brothel snared Spitzer and his financial transactions. Later, a Russian woman tried to blackmail him.
The hypocrisy got him. He was having sex with prostitutes after having built his career on prosecuting guys for having sex with prostitutes.
Raoul
I have no direct insights. But if what is being said is reasonably accurate, I could see his very fast resignation being connected to what sounds like a fairly serious drinking and or drug problem.
Once this shit surfaced, if he’s a drunk who is also capable of some introspection, particularly if someone in his life is around to give him the ‘this can be your bottom, you can stop now if you get help’ push, bailing out to get off the awful treadmill of active addiction and into treatment and recovery could be an impetus for the timing. There can be a moment of clarity – a sort of, ‘damn, I got caught, but it’s also a relief to stop the lies and pretense’ that can happen.
I know it’s trite for people in these ugly, messy situations to say “I have a problem, I’m getting treatment.” But as an ex-drunk (who thankfully pretty much just got mellow to the point of isolation), I think it’s not uncommon for high-performing, high-stress people to also have active using patterns and they get way out of hand. If that’s his case (I don’t know, of course – maybe he’s just an awful man), g-d speed and once he’s sober a while he can quietly rebuild a life out of the public eye.
Barbara
@Brachiator: I think it was more like he built his career going after guys for structuring transactions to evade financial reporting laws, which of course he was also evading in order to hide what he was doing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Brachiator: That is the way I remember it.
Amir Khalid
@lamh36:
There have already been indictments and guilty pleas. It is still early in the process, and there will be more to come. Hold on.
J R in WV
@Ruckus:
I’m with you, Ruckus!
And with lamh, also, who as you say is a ray of sunshine most every day around here.
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
He also prosecuted the prostitutes themselves, and several of the women he hired knew that and felt there was an implied threat.
Raoul
@Raoul: PS – none of what I’ve said above was intended to excuse him or make any of the allegations go away. He may face legal consequences or even criminal charges. And that should go forward, if so. He just may have the opportunity to also stop doing the underlying chemical behavior that facilitates his hitting and otherwise harming women in his life.
mai naem mobile
@Kay: the WaPo Sunday story I would be willing to bet was a tongue job for Melania – probably either for some scoops they got on the Dolt45 political garbage or they’re going to get some exclusive pics on some Melania stuff down the road. Today’s BeBest garbage was to distract from Dolt45’s mounting problems and a rip off off Michelle O’s Be Better campaign from 09-10. There’s also a little booklet that they released today which was almost word for word ripped off from the Obamas. These fuckers are the laziest mofos ever. They can’t even get free creative college interns to do stuff like this. All they want to do is grift off the WH gigs. They have the nerve to call the Obamas lazy and stupid but they steal their work.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: That is different than blackmail. Implied v. overt matters. And he continued paying, right?
eemom
@Mnemosyne:
I don’t remember that, specifically; got a link?
What I remember is that Spitzer was a PROVEN fucking scumbag hypocrite, for hiring prostitutes when he was prosecuting them — but more than that, for the irresponsibility and betrayal of us all that his behavior evidenced. Same with John Edwards and Bill Clinton. And at all those times, many on the left were railing about how the sex life of a public official is nobody’s business. And that’s true, up to a point — but not when such behavior is at the risk of destroying all that they purport to stand for, and all the trust that their supporters have placed in them.
Now, it seems, “our” side has come full circle — doing the mea culpa and “please sir, may I have another” to the republicans at the slightest whisper of misconduct by one of our own, proof and truth be damned.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I would need to do some Googling, but I’m not sure he always paid. I think that some of the women said there was a quid pro quo of him not prosecuting them as long as they kept seeing him. “Coercion” may be a more accurate term than “blackmail.”
hitchhiker
Man, this is a surprising thread. Is it possible that none of you have ever been involved with the kind of drunk who turns mean under the influence? The guy functions well, has friends, seems normal, and then after a certain level of getting loaded — bam.
What these women describe is textbook behavior for that brand of alcoholic. He starts early (half the bottle of wine is gone when she arrives), he demands that she drink with him (he needs to feel like what he’s doing is “social drinking”), he consumes a LOT (2 bottles a night, plus scotch, right up until bedtime), he abruptly gets out-of-character vicious (notice the repeated shock that it was happening … followed by even these bright, savvy women persuading themselves that they could change it).
I lived this story myself, so it seems bloody obvious to me. He’s a drunk with a mean streak that manifests when he’s got a woman alone. It happens all the time. Go to any AA meeting in the world and you’ll find somebody admitting to this. Go to any AlAnon meeting in the world and you’ll find half the people there describing it as their usual weekend. This is normal.
Barbara
@eemom: I wouldn’t say full circle but extremely tired of the casual unreflective misogyny underlying so much behavior towards and involving women. The Franken episode was troubling but that doesn’t mean Schneiderman was wrong to resign.
Ruckus
@PJ:
Then don’t come here and be a fucking asshole. Take yourself and your holier than thou attitude and fuck off in the bakery.
Barbara
@hitchhiker: Yes. A friend in high school had a boyfriend who beat the crap out of her every time he got drunk and was just a sweet softspoken guy when sober. It was horrible to witness.
Brachiator
@Barbara:
OK. Fair enough.
@Mnemosyne: OK. The main thing is that nobody has any reason to be mad at you for your take on Spitzer. That’s just dumb.
Jay
@Brachiator:
It’s called explicit signed contracts negotiated by all before any play ever happens, in a full consent environment.
Ruckus
@eemom:
This.
But I also look at this from the angle that maybe we’ve reached a tipping point with all this sexual assault stuff, at least on our side. Yes I think we need actual justice, with the legal system and all that. But how has that worked out before now? And we want our politicians to be, if not perfect, because no one is, at least not a hidden sex offender. Sort of difficult to ask the other side to be reasonable if we have the same problems on our side. I’d say we want it better, everyone deserves the same level of respect and it’s no secret that racism and misogyny are rampant in many societies, this one for sure, making that level of respect awol. How do we change that? The good ole boy network doesn’t even understand the word respect, let alone practice it. We have to change that. Is there a better way than cleaning our own home?
hitchhiker
@Barbara:
Thank you … thought I was in some kind of alternate universe where this kind of thing is unheard of.
It’s going to be interesting to see how this plays out; I couldn’t tell from that article, but it sounds like he may have been in a blackout state for a lot of this. It’s so weird to be involved with someone whose ugliest behavior is something you can never forget, and which you know is something that they will never remember.
The scene in the morning:
Me: hurt, confused, angry, packing my stuff
Him: hung over, subdued, trying to figure out what he did but not wanting to ask
Me: realizing he really doesn’t know & doing the expected, routine female work of making everybody feel better — which involves minimizing what happened
Him: shaky but resolved to do better, or resentful & half-thinking I’m exaggerating
Crazy-making. I know exactly why these women stayed, and came back, and were ashamed.
Ruckus
@hitchhiker:
I’ve seen a couple of very angry drunks. Nothing sexual though. One I was in the navy with. He’d go out and get drunk and pick fights. Problem was he was a natural fighter and he had an extreme pain threshold. I walked back on board one night and he tried to pick a fight with me. His wing man stopped him, otherwise I’d bet none of my teeth would be original. At the very least. I also was at a college party once and a guy put his fist through the wall. I have no idea why other than he was drunk and possibly on something else. PCP being a possibility. And I worked for a drunk for a while. It was fun. Or so I kept telling myself as I didn’t want to start all over. Again. But better that than staying and putting up with his shit.
Jay
@Corner Stone:
The Rethugs have long been the Party of pederasty, pedofillia, serial monogamy, wife beating, closetted self loathers, LBGTQ posing as homophobes, child abusers, liars, cheats, scoundrels, treason and family pet killers.
Their Party and Voters are fine with all that, while pretending to have morals, but they don’t have any.
They show that every day with their legislation and their actions.
So, what’s more important to you, winning at all costs, or doing good?
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
@eemom:
I wandered off into several Google rabbit holes and still couldn’t find the article I was thinking of. It wasn’t the woman who (falsely) accused Spitzer of sexual assault, and it wasn’t women from the prostitution ring he was caught using when he was governor — it was from some women that reporters talked to who had him as a client when he first launched his big anti-prostitution crusade as a DA.
Mnemosyne
@hitchhiker:
I (fortunately) have not been in that situation, probably because I avoided guys who drink a lot due to my own family history, but it sounded all too plausible to me that he could be a blackout drunk who didn’t remember the abuse later.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Jay:
The evidence against Schneiderman is pretty solid. And it’s good that he has stepped down. It’s good to hold your own accountable.
But if you never win, you’ll never be in a position to do good in the first place. Sometimes what it takes to win isn’t pretty, especially when the stakes are high enough. You have to fight fire with fire and bring an actual gun to the proverbial gun fight.
Sister Golden Bear
@lamh36:
IANAL, but bottom line a contract wouldn’t make any difference. Things I do/have done to me are legally considered assault (even a spanking) and cannot be legally consented to. Even in a civil matter, it could be argued the the contract was signed under duress — “50 Shades” is actually a good example of this, and one of many, many reasons those of us in the kink world hate it with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.
That said, it is SOP to negotiate a “scene” beforehand with what is/isn’t acceptable do to/say.* Some people do have checklists that they ask their partner to sign, but I’ve rarely seen people do so in more casual settings. Mostly you have to rely on the trustworthiness of the person you’re playing with — and safety monitors if you’re playing in a “public” play space, i.e. a club or party.
Long-term relationships are a bit difference, and contracts are more frequent there — and contra “50 Shades” — something the parties involved often spend a bit of time working out among themselves.
But all of this is irrelevant in the Schneiderman case, since overstepping boundaries isn’t what he’s accused of. As others have said, the descriptions are of a classic black-out drunk who’s got a mean streak when drunk that may not be present others. So aside from the alleged assaults themselves, I’m pissed at Schneiderman for trying to pass it off as kink.
*Things like verbal abuse, humiliation play and “mind fuckery” can mess up people far more than physical play gone wrong. They also can be extremely hawt to the players involved. It’s like playing with fireworks — it needs to be done carefully.
Chris Johnson
It seems like this: when society demands that you ‘be the best’ and over the course of decades, rigs everything in a ‘meritocratic’ way so it’s one big competition and there’s no sympathy for ‘welfare’ or non-aspirational people, over time every role of ‘winner’ gets filled by a monster of some sort or another.
Men are more likely to be these monsters because they’ll fight harder and are willing to give up more for the sake of winning. Also men are dick-headed puppets to their own genitals (or, lizard brains?) which means some of their most basic animal drives can take nasty turns when they’re under stress.
And when everybody has to fight for position in everything, everybody is under unthinkable stress. Imagine, being ‘powerful white man in New York City’. THAT’S a list that’s hard to stay on, and damn, the shame of not maintaining a position as ranking powerful white man in New York City.
I wonder if everyone of consequence is crazy at this point. You can’t even trust the ones who are virtue signalling like mad (or actually doing worthy things). To get in that position requires a ferocity that is self-destructive.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@lamh36: This is politics, the short answer “she consented” doesn’t count because they would simply say “you intimated her” and there is an element of truth to that because BDSM bottoms want to be intimidated by tops.
Barbara
@hitchhiker: I am sure this thread is dead, but I found out when I volunteered with domestic abuse groups that a lot of domestic abuse is tied to alcohol consumption, meaning that men who can hold their shit together when sober lose control after drinking, and not necessarily drinking a lot. They are often remorseful (most drunks do remember). The good news for this kind of abuser is that, if they are willing, they can stop the destruction by not drinking. The bad news is that a lot of people have built their social life around drinking.
Regarding what you do with a blackout drunk: I had several roommates in college who engaged in destructive, dangerous or disruptive behavior when drunk and who exhibited this pattern — waking up to people staring at them in disbelief or who were extremely pissed off about what happened the night before and not having a clue as to what had happened to generate that kind of response. These people never hurt anyone; they hurt property, they stole property, they put themselves at extreme physical risk, they brought men into our house who scared the rest of us by, among other things, using hard drugs and then refusing to leave. These were women. There was only one fix: stop drinking.
ETA: Here is where cell phones might actually be useful!
Denali
Its is the timing of this particular take out that is so interesting. We are so quick to condemn,even when we are aware due process is not been given. We also know that that Trump is subject to New York state law and Schneiderman was going to hold him accountable. My theory, with no hard evidence at all, is that Guliani was brought in because he knows the skeletons and, like Trump, is shameless and willing to take out Schneiderman.