This Is What You Do When You Don’t Have A Real Argument

Two of the key people in the Obama administration for the negotiation of the Iran nuclear deal, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), were investigated by an Israeli private intelligence agency trying to find dirt on them, The Guardian reported today.

The agency talked to reporters in order to find whether Ben Rhodes and Colin Kahl, advisors to President Obama, had shared sensitive information. Presumably they found nothing, or we would have heard about it.

This has been the modus operandi of the JCPOA opponents all along. On Twitter, they indulge in ad hominems and personal attacks rather than present a coherent argument. They set up straw men with views that misrepresent the case for the agreement. They all seem to have the same talking points and slogans (“sunset clauses,” “give Iran nuclear weapons”) in what I might have called an echo chamber if they hadn’t seized on that accusation first.

Back in the summer of 2015, they tried to set up a phony controversy about “secret side agreements.” Several of the supporters of the agreement, including me, responded strongly and, I think, managed to squash their propaganda before it fully bloomed. For that, we were attacked again and again on Twitter.

All the opponents have is lies and false accusations. This latest exposure of their dirty tactics is of a piece with the tactics they have used all along. It’s an indication that they have nothing else.

 

In case you were in doubt, Rudy says the quiet part out loud.

 

Cross-posted to Nuclear Diner.

 

 

 

 

 

176 replies
  1. 1
    The Ancient Randonneur says:

    And I’m committed to regime change here in the US.

  2. 2
  3. 3
    Mary G says:

    @The Ancient Randonneur: Yes!

    ETA:

    In a page right out of the Nixon playbook, Trump aides reportedly approached an Israeli private intel firm in May 2017 to try to dig up personal dirt on me as part of their efforts to discredit the Iran Deal. Shameful, but sadly unpredictable. https://t.co/QbY6XDXA4Y 1/2— Colin Kahl (@ColinKahl) May 5, 2018

    For what it’s worth, I’m sure they research firm found out this juicy bit of my personal background, before realizing it was (a) already public, and (b) would just help my image with millennials. https://t.co/VfDSAHFnxJ 2/2— Colin Kahl (@ColinKahl) May 5, 2018

  4. 4
    SRW1 says:

    Giuliani: Trump is ‘committed to’ regime change in Iran

    Can ‘We will be greeted as liberators’ be far behind?

  5. 5
    oatler. says:

    Can’t wait to see how many of these assholes show up on the Sunday shows. Is Giuliani going to be a “fellow panelist” with Hugh Hewitt in the future?

  6. 6
    r€nato says:

    Neo-cons want a mulligan on Iraq. They’ll get it right the next time for sure!

  7. 7
    GregB says:

    But it will be an isolationist regime change-cake-walk with no American casualties and no refugee crisis.

    That is how the episode will be scripted.

  8. 8
    r€nato says:

    I would love to know where is this money tree that we found to finance hundreds of billions of tax cuts for the rich, as well as for this new war. I keep hearing about how the country has this massive debt that is going to make the USD worthless.

  9. 9
    trollhattan says:

    @r€nato:
    Would they settle for a mullet?

  10. 10
  11. 11
    r€nato says:

    @trollhattan: How about a mallet. Repeatedly, to the heads of Bolton and Condi and anyone else pushing this asinine idea.

  12. 12
    sukabi says:

    Because that worked out so well the last time.😠

    Regime change at home with a side purge of all assholes that have been advocating for war with Iran (or the flavor of the day) since we facilitated the last regime change in Iran 50ish years ago.

  13. 13

    @oatler.: Rudy is scheduled to be on Judge Jeanine’s show tonight.

  14. 14
    Mary G says:

    The “Juicy bit” was that he’s a policy wonk by day and spins tunes at night.

  15. 15

    Iran is much bigger than Iraq has the orange one seen the map? Is he going to reinstate the draft?

  16. 16
    r€nato says:

    If we truly want regime change in Iran, then all we have to do is contain them and wait for the current generation to take over.

    But that would not profit the military contractors nor make the penii of neo-conservatives any larger.

  17. 17
    Brachiator says:

    Giuliani: Trump is ‘committed to’ regime change in Iran.

    Wow. It’s like Rudy G is Trump’s more stupid Mini-me.

  18. 18
    NotMax says:

    It’s always attack the messenger.

  19. 19
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    @r€nato: Fighting a nation twice the size of Iraq with mountains to boot, a population just as fiercely loyal to their nation as we are, the rural people just as devoted to Islam as fundies here to Christianity. Oh did mention a military that is tanned rested and ready plus throw in the volunteers that were willing to clear minefields among other things, all the same time our military is having problems in recruiting in a good economy, as well nation, weary of fighting, What can go wrong.

  20. 20

    @Brachiator: May be he is trying to sabotage T admin from the inside.

    ETA: Compared to the gas giant everyone is mini.

  21. 21

    Well, that’s something to look forward to.

    I understand what’s happening–anything Obama did is bad and has to be undone–but I still can’t understand why they’re so deeply insecure and petty and shallow about everything. I guess it’s just that they’re deeply insecure, petty, shallow people. I guess I just would have thought that nobody could have that little respect for themselves as to be so obvious about it.

  22. 22
    EBT says:

    GROVERHAUS: The legendary story of a goon (something awful forum user) contractor who built his house on a swamp. Now in twitter form. Read and be amazed that this guy made enough money contractoring to build this thing, and revel as it sinks in to the swamp.
    https://twitter.com/3liza/status/891475977183739905

  23. 23
    Barbara says:

    How would regime change work, exactly? Even if you thought it would be a good idea for Iran to have different people in charge, and thought it would be okay to achieve this result using clandestine or extra-democratic means, the usual way of doing this would be via military coup. Is there anyone who thinks the Iranian military can be bought off by western influence or that it would pursue materially diffetent foreign policy? Or that it would fail to resist such a change? The word stupid doesn’t even begin to do justice to this idea.

  24. 24

    @Barbara: Suicidal is the word you are looking for.

  25. 25
    Corner Stone says:

    @r€nato:

    If we truly want regime change in Iran, then all we have to do is contain them and wait for the current generation to take over.

    I’d prefer to just engage the younger generation and let that go where it will.

  26. 26
    Jay says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Isn’t that Treason Tribbles job?

  27. 27
    Another Scott says:

    @Brachiator: Yeahbut, Rudy doesn’t have a policy portfolio. Pompeo does:

    Katrina Manson in Washington MARCH 14, 2018

    Mike Pompeo’s appointment as America’s top diplomat puts a populist hawk in charge of foreign policy at a critical point in the country’s strained relations with Iran, North Korea and Russia.

    The former Central Intelligence Agency director has touted the benefits of regime change in Iran and North Korea, and will probably push for a much tougher posture on both than his ousted predecessor Rex Tillerson.

    “Pompeo wants to further the president’s agenda,” said an administration official, contrasting him with Mr Tillerson, whose few fans saw him as a bulwark for a liberal global order under attack from a nationalistic and isolationist president.

    […]

    Rudy isn’t the problem. Trump is the problem, not least because he appoints people like Pompeo. The GOP in Congress is the problem, because they approve his nominees and do his bidding (and turn a blind eye as he destroys the national government), etc.

    185 days to go. Eyes on the prize…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  28. 28
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    May be he is trying to sabotage T admin from the inside.

    It’s certainly working, and his continued efforts should be encouraged.

  29. 29
    Ruckus says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    Same thought.
    Maybe rudy is trying to get even for not getting, what was it, the AG position. Not job, he’d never actually work. Also has rudy ever not looked like the hundred year old jackoff?

  30. 30
    Mandalay says:

    @r€nato:

    If we truly want regime change in Iran, then all we have to do is contain them and wait for the current generation to take over.

    How did that work out in Cuba?

  31. 31

    @Mr Stagger Lee: It’s fucking Persia, they fought the fucking Roman Empire and were never occupied. Trump and his folk are fucking nuts.

  32. 32
    NotMax says:

    @Ruckus

    His TV visage (dead eyes coupled with smug smirk) fairly screams snake oil salesman.

  33. 33
    Brachiator says:

    @Another Scott:

    Rudy isn’t the problem. Trump is the problem…

    They are all the problem.

    I want them all gone, and until they are, people will suffer, people will be hurt.

  34. 34
    Ruckus says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
    Do you have respect for them? Yeah I didn’t think so.
    What do you expect, them to have more respect for themselves than everyone else does? They have unearned egos the size of all outdoors to make up for no respect. Or as I once heard it “There is so little respect for him in the world, even he doesn’t have any.”

  35. 35
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    @Mr Stagger Lee: It has to be the hostage crisis. I mean, we have had wars with casualties nearing a couple of hundred thousand (World Wars I and 2) and yet we are not even thinking about getting back for the loss. Vietnam divided our nation, but now are at least on cordial terms with them.

    The Iran hostage crisis cost us only a few people at the most. and that was largely an accident.

  36. 36
    Ruckus says:

    @NotMax:
    The question that a snake oil salesman has to answer to be successful is, does/will anyone believe my bullshit. rudy can not possibly be (OK I just read that, LOL) that far up his own ass that he believes anything he says. Because who else would?

  37. 37
    Corner Stone says:

    @Mandalay: Cuba? Seriously?

  38. 38
    Capri says:

    We seem to re-creating a Suez Crisis, with the actors switched. US playing the role of England and the rest of the world is now playing the role of the US. At the time, England was one of the world’s superpowers, but was over-leveraged with more hubris than sense.

    To quote ultimate source Wikipedia:

    “The three allies had attained a number of their military objectives, but the canal was now useless. Heavy political pressure from the United States and the USSR led to a withdrawal. U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower had strongly warned Britain not to invade; he now threatened serious damage to the British financial system by selling the US government’s pound sterling bonds. Historians conclude the crisis “signified the end of Great Britain’s role as one of the world’s major powers”

    Nobody in our administration might remember this, but I’m guessing Putin is familiar.

  39. 39
    Corner Stone says:

    @NotMax: Watch when he opens his eyes really wide to emphasize whatever he is lying about at the time. Looks like a cartoon character. Only needs the Aaayyyyuuugggaaaa!!! horn to accompany him on set.

  40. 40
    debbie says:

    @Brachiator:

    Rudi isn’t sabotaging. He’s playing at being president because he’ll never get an actual change to be president.

  41. 41

    Did anyone watch the Snooze Hour yesterday? David Brooks had smoothly told ten lies before Mark Shields could get one sputtering defense out of his mouth. He is like an old car whose engine takes forever to start in the winter. One of the Parkland kids could do a far better job than the Jowls of Concern in taking on the smooth liar, DB.

  42. 42
    debbie says:

    @NotMax:

    Jeez, that face he made when he called Comey a pervert!

  43. 43

    @Barbara:

    How would regime change work, exactly?

    1. We bomb them.
    2. …
    3. They greet us with flowers and candy.

    More seriously, the proponents of regime change have never put forth a plan.

  44. 44
    Mandalay says:

    All the opponents have is lies and false accusations.

    Surely the most successful of those lies was that the United States was paying Iran hundreds of millions of dollars to discontinue its nuclear weapons program, while knowing that the money being handed over to Iran was the return of seized assets plus interest.

    And the media did a rotten job of explaining that to the American public.

  45. 45
    rikyrah says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
    Don’t mess with the Persians. They are not playing with you 😠

  46. 46

    @Mandalay: They can’t help it they are more worried about Sanders smoky eye.

  47. 47
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    Millennium Challenge This is what could happen if you start a war with Iran.

  48. 48
    Brachiator says:

    @Capri:

    Historians conclude the crisis “signified the end of Great Britain’s role as one of the world’s major powers”

    Lots of differences between Suez and Iran, but you are on to something. Britain and France overplayed their hands, and did not understand either how weak they were and how much the world had changed. Similarly, Trump doesn’t know what he is doing, and greatly underestimates Iran, Russia and China. And even though China is not a primary player here, they have a strong interest in keeping things under control.

    Nobody in our administration might remember this, but I’m guessing Putin is familiar.

    Another huge problem with Trump is that he thinks that history begins with him. He knows nothing and remembers even less.

  49. 49
    mozzerb says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Plans are for wimps!
    //

  50. 50
    Another Scott says:

    @CarolDuhart2: That’s part of it, but I don’t think it’s a big part of it. Big man Ronnie brought them home the first day, after all. (Groucho-roll-eyes.gif)

    I think it has more to do with these things:

    1) The 1983 Beirut Bombing that Hezbollah committed that killed so many US Marines was supposedly ordered by Iran. Politico in 2016 said (paraphrasing) that Mattis wanted war with Iran more than just about anything. They carry a big grudge about that.

    2) Iran has lots of oil. Bush and Cheney and all their hangers on viewed (and probably still do) oil as just about the most important thing on Earth. They want to control it wherever it is around the world. (Witness the continual noise from them about overthrowing the government in Venezuela, also too.)

    3) The country is an “Islamic Republic” with leaders that call us bad names. I don’t have to tell you how many buttons they can push about that. :-(

    4) Saudi Arabia hates Iran because they refuse to be led by the nose by the Saudi Royal Family about all things Muslim and about international relations in the region. We support Saudi Arabia, therefore we must oppose Iran.

    Etc.

    The US warmongers don’t care how difficult it would be to do a “regime change” thingy in Iran (or the DPRK or Venezuela or anywhere else). They won’t be fighting, but know that it’ll rile up their supporters so that they can hang on to political power, and the grift, a little while longer…

    Grrr.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  51. 51

    @Brachiator: IIIRC India gets a lot of its oil from Iran, as does Europe, this is not going to go down well with most of the world.

  52. 52
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    @CarolDuhart2: It’s some sort of right-wing pride here. How dare they burn flags and call us the “Great Satan” and throw out our Shah? How dare they defy Israel?
    Of course, no one who has looked at the situation thinks we could win or even draw. Mountains, men that would fight to the death, a surplus of young fighters, the Strait of Hormuz being a vital lifeline for oil controlled by them-there are plenty of choke points for an invading army.

    Our military assets are stretched thin from Iraq to Afghanistan, few are joining up in the numbers even to try, and who is going to volunteer for Trump’s army. The navy-usually far away from combat areas-is so understaffed that crews are exhausted. One can only imagine the army. The air force is also overworked as well.
    And there are no forces available to supplement what is missing. None of our European allies want to join in-there are regional allies that are willing either. Saudi Arabia may think it can, but when has it really had to fight a war? Egypt has a hard time holding on to itself, let alone take on Iran.

    The morale and motivation to fight Iran?Nowhere to be seen. While Iran may be repressive, so are a lot of places-some a lot worse. What would victory look like, if even possible? Would Iran love Israel? Would Iran embrace America? Would they stop being Shia and become Sunni in order to please a corrupt and lazy Saudi Government? The answer is no to all of it. And few Americans still hate Iran for a hostage crisis that ended long ago.

  53. 53

    @CarolDuhart2: It will diminish the United States in the eyes of the world by gutting its power and prestige, which is what Putin wants ultimately.

  54. 54
    Mary G says:

    We can’t discount the Crazy Christianists who are convinced that the book of Revelation tells us that a great war in the Middle East that kills billions of people will bring Jeebus back. Pompeo seems to be one of these, and he scares me more than someone like Pruitt, who just wants to travel, steal money and feel like big shot.

    I went to google something to quote, but it’s so toxic and insane that I won’t. But people do believe this crap and it drives some of the gun mania and is also good for selling survival buckets and gold bars to the marks.

  55. 55
    Jon Rudd says:

    @SRW1: It’s cakewalk tiome again.

  56. 56
    Mandalay says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Cuba? Seriously?

    Yes, seriously:

    This year, the Associated Press figured out that the U.S. Agency for International Development had sought to trigger a youth uprising, a sort of Cuban Spring, by setting up a phony, Twitter-like network in Cuba called “ZunZuneo,” a Cuban slang term for the sound of a hummingbird. More recently, AP revealed that USAID had hired a Serbian music promoter to infiltrate Cuba’s hip-hop scene in hopes of sparking youth protests against the Castro government.

    Our old approach of trying to kill Fidel Castro was repeatedly thwarted due to our massive incompetence. Then the old codger had the temerity to die a natural death on us, so we had to come up with another equally stupid approach to ending the regime.

  57. 57
    efgoldman says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    has the orange one seen the map?

    I’ve maintained since before the election that Weasel Face can’t read a map or identify any of the key countries.

    Is he going to reinstate the draft?

    Don’t know what Army he’s going to use.

  58. 58
    Jon Rudd says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Killed at least one emperor and captured another one.

  59. 59
    Chet Murthy says:

    @CarolDuhart2: I’m no foreign policy expert, nor historian, but

    (a) I thought at this point, Vietnam was not just cordial, but an ally? As in: they run join exercises with our military?

    (b) Re: Iran, I would have guessed it’s two things: Iran is a regional power, and Israel doesn’t want them to be, and Iran supports Israel’s nearby opponents.

    And as Walt & Mearsheimer so cogently put it, the Israeli government has *enormous* sway over what we do.

  60. 60
    efgoldman says:

    @Barbara:

    Is there anyone who thinks the Iranian military can be bought off by western influence or that it would pursue materially diffetent foreign policy? Or that it would fail to resist such a change? The word stupid doesn’t even begin to do justice to this idea.

    The Mustache of Anger

  61. 61
    B.B.A. says:

    Sorry, what’s this got to do with BENGHAZI again?

  62. 62
    Jon Rudd says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: We’ll rig the war in our favor?
    /s

  63. 63
    Corner Stone says:

    @Mandalay: My indignant question was more about why anyone would be foolish enough to compare strategies between our involvement in Iran and Cuba.

  64. 64
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @debbie: I think this is what you’re looking for:
    https://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/articles/giuliani%20hannity%20main.jpg

  65. 65
    James Powell says:

    @Mandalay:

    And the media did a rotten job of explaining that to the American public.

    Members of the press/media are near unanimous in insisting that it is not their job to explain things to the American people. It’s not their job to determine who is telling the truth. It is their job to keep their jobs. Nothing more.

  66. 66
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Barbara:

    How would regime change work, exactly?

    Why, we’d bring back the Shah, of course!

  67. 67
    Mandalay says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    India gets a lot of its oil from Iran, as does Europe

    Not only that, but Iran requires payment in Euros.

    Gadaffi and Saddam Hussein went down that path as well, and things didn’t end well for either of them, but I’m sure that’s just an interesting coincidence. The notion that the US wants to destabilize nations who demand payment for their oil in Euros rather than Dollars is just silly.

  68. 68
    debbie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Criminal that I had to see it again!

  69. 69
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Chet Murthy: yup—it’s all about what Israel and KSA want

  70. 70
    Jay says:

    “As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.”

    Donald Rumsfield, CNN, December 8, 2004.

  71. 71
    Another Scott says:

    @Steve in the ATL: The Shah’s dead. That won’t work.

    Donnie would make Jared Regent, of course. It would get him out of the White House, so win-win, amirite?!??

    (sigh)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  72. 72

    @B.B.A.:

    Sorry, what’s this got to do with BENGHAZI again?

    There are emails.

  73. 73
    Baud says:

    @Another Scott:

    Maybe one of the Shahs of Sunset.

  74. 74
  75. 75

    @Baud: I’m more partial to the Sultan of Swing.

  76. 76
    Citizen Alan says:

    @EBT:

    I read that whole thing expecting it to somehow be an allegory about the failures of Grover Norquist.

  77. 77
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: you really trust southerners?

  78. 78
    Patricia Kayden says:

    What right does the U.S. have to decide which foreign leaders should be deposed? Especially given the fact that the U.S. has no problems with the murderous regime in Saudi Arabia which does stuff like this. Keep in mind that Conservatives fumed when President Obama lifted the embargo on Cuba but has given favored nation trade status to China which is just as communist (if not more so) than Cuba.

    Remember when some idiots on the left told us that it was Secretary Clinton who was a warmonger? Good times.

  79. 79
    efgoldman says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    proponents of regime change have never put forth a plan.

    Or so much as a piggy toe into a war zone.

  80. 80

    @Steve in the ATL: My gf in grad school was a southerner; about as far south as you can get, almost in Singapore.

  81. 81
    Ruviana says:

    @Corner Stone: Well in the 50s we used Iran as our basis for overthrowing the President of Guatemala, so…

  82. 82
    Baud says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Remember when some idiots on the left told us that it was Secretary Clinton who was a warmonger? Good times.

    The lie worked. Expect more.

  83. 83
    r€nato says:

    @Mandalay: How did the Bay of Pigs fiasco work out? Or all the nutty CIA plots to assassinate Castro? Or the 60 years’ long boycott and embargo?

  84. 84
    Citizen_X says:

    I’m certain that, if we got bogged down in a war in Iran, Kim Jong Un would not be so rude as to take advantage of the situation. “Oh, hi Donald, it’s Mr. Kim. Remember me? I’ve decided to reunite Korea. The tanks are rolling as we speak. I know you’re busy right now with the whole Iran thing, so ta-ta!”

  85. 85
    Amir Khalid says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
    You mean she was from Johor Baru?

  86. 86

    There’s an element no one has brought up yet, an element of dogma. Bullying. Bullying is the conservative mindset, foundational to all of their thinking. A lot of this is that they sincerely cannot grasp conflict resolution that involves peaceful, cooperative negotiation. It makes no sense to them. They know for a fact that only threats and violence solve anything, and it is obvious and inevitable that the JCPOA cannot stop the Evildoers.

  87. 87
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: I wrote the cultural assessment on Iran and Hezbullah for the Office of the Secretary of Defense for Policy. It was specifically requested by the then director of policy as a follow up to my cultural assessment on the Syrian Civil War. And was ultimately part of a trio of reports with the final one being on Iraqi sectarian violence. I’m not sure the war game, even played as it was by Van Riper, does justice to what would likely happen.

    I’ll do a front page post on this tomorrow as my follow on to this post by Cheryl, but quite simply:
    1) The strategic air strikes won’t achieve our objectives.
    2) The Iranians aren’t stupid. All of their nuclear research sites, nuclear energy sites, labs, etc are either built near heritage sites, near cities and towns, and/or close enough to the borders and the ground and sea lines of commerce and communication (GLOCCs and SLOCCs), that attempting to blow them up will cause not just significant collateral damage, but that damage will include damage to heritage sites (a war crime), as well as potentially release enough toxic material that will necessitate undertaking an immediate humanitarian assistance, disaster management and mitigation, and emergency response mission alongside offensive military operations.
    3) The Iranians have the ability to close the shat al arab waterway and spike global petroleum prices. They also have the ability to sink a US aircraft carrier.
    4) Iranians are incredibly patriotic. Even those unhappy with the current government and who would like to see some changes. The minute we attack, those folks are going to rally to the national cause and defense.
    5) The Iranians allowed their war planning to leak back in 2007/2008 when they were worried that the US would US Iraq as a launching pad to attack Iran. The planning basically called for emptying all the population centers, moving everyone into the mountains, and creating civilian cadres assigned to military units to conduct asymmetric and irregular warfare against the American invaders.
    6) This means the US would be fighting a war among the people. Something we are particularly bad at.
    7) Those US military units that are actually good at it, the Green Berets (Special Forces including Operational Detachment-Delta/Delta Force) do not have enough personnel to actually conduct this type of campaign at the national level. While our other Special Operations Forces (SOF) – Rangers, SEALS, Air Commandos, etc – have gotten a fair amount of experience with this over the past 17 years or so, this is not part of their Mission Essential Task Lists (METLs). They are all designed to conduct other types of special operations.
    8) US conventional forces, specifically the Conventional Army, is better at working in an asymmetric and irregular environment than it once was, but it is still not designed to do so.
    9) US Special Operations Forces (SOF) are already deployed in over 124 countries – they are maxed out.
    10) We have neither enough Special Operations Forces, nor conventional operational forces, to wage war in Iran. We have 3 corps headquarters. One is in Iraq. One is getting ready to go back to Iraq. One is allocated to US Army Pacific for the Asian-Pacific Area of Responsibility (AOR).
    11) You know that C130 crash last week that killed the crew from the Puerto Rico National Guard? That’s just the most recent of those crashes. They’ve been happening with increasing regularity because all of our aviation equipment has been in constant usage since the mid 1990s.

    Ten days ago the US closed down the Combined Joint Force Land Component Command (C/JFLCC) in Iraq and gave its duties back to Combined Joint Task Force Operation Inherent Resolve (CJTF OIR). This is less than a month after 10th Mountain Division took over for 1st Armored Division as the C/JFLCC. By the way, doctrinally, C/JFLLCs are supposed to be 3 star commands where a corps commander and headquarters are assigned as the C/FJLCC. We are so light and so overstretched that we’ve been using 2 stars and 2 star commands as the C/JFLCCs for the better part of the past five years.

    War in Iran would be so catastrophic to the US it shouldn’t even be contemplated. The actual geography, as well as the human geography, is disadvantageous to the US. ISIS is not done and has either dug into its remaining strongholds in Iraq and Syria or reconstituted itself as a purely guerrilla force. The region’s best strategist is the MG Suleimani – the Quds Force Commander. If the US attacks Iran it will be like placing one’s hand in a wood chipper and pulling out a stump.

  88. 88
    NotMax says:

    @Amir Khalid

    Johor Baru

    Isn’t that Luke Skywalker’s aunt?

    :)

  89. 89
  90. 90
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Baud: That lie worked for a certain portion of the population but not for all of us.
    Btw, I don’t think the majority of Americans can be persuaded by the Liar-in-Chief to support any war in Iran. Trump is less popular than Bush was right after 9/11.

  91. 91
    oatler. says:

    @r€nato: All I remember about Cuba is that Heffalump got bumped off.

  92. 92
    Baud says:

    @Patricia Kayden: They didn’t need all of us.

    ETA: But I think you’re right that this is different than Iraq in terms of the ability to get public support.

  93. 93
    Amir Khalid says:

    @NotMax:
    Capital of Johor state. It’s the city on the other end of the Causeway from S’pore.

  94. 94
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: yeah well my old gf from Ushuaia is not impressed. And she was totally real, like my gf in Canada.

  95. 95
    mozzerb says:

    @Adam L Silverman: The really alarming possibility is that the War-With-Iran fans have been told all that repeatedly but don’t care, because they assume that a few well-placed nukes will overcome any temporary hitches and solve the problem neatly.

    I wish that didn’t seem like the only way their confidence about “winning” could make sense.

  96. 96
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @mozzerb: If they were told it, my guess is they ignored it as it contradicted their preconceived notions.

  97. 97

    @mozzerb: Trump did say “What good are nukes if you can’t use them”.

  98. 98
    Shell says:

    Rudy says the quiet part out loud.

    That definitely is his personal motto. He should have t-shirts made.

  99. 99
    Amir Khalid says:

    @mozzerb:
    Plus, they and their fellow Republicans have a particular attitude towards people who actually know stuff: “The experts? Pah! What do they know?”

  100. 100
    SFAW says:

    Two of the key people in the Obama administration for the negotiation of the Iran nuclear deal, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), were investigated by an Israeli private intelligence agency trying to find dirt on them,

    The only (possibly) surprising thing about that, to me, is that it’s not immediately obvious that Bibi directed them to do that. Does that fuckhead hate all darkies, or just Obama?

  101. 101
    SFAW says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Plus, they and their fellow Republicans have a particular attitude towards people who actually know stuff: “The experts? Pah! What do they know?”

    Well, after all, Lying Littledick has told us how he knows more than the generals.

  102. 102

    @Baud: Huffpost has an article blaming Ds for Acorn’s demise. The article is better than the headline, but the attacks from the left flank have begun.

  103. 103
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SFAW: The company was most likely Black Cube. They are alleged to be SCLs/Cambridge Analytica’s go to ratfuckers. They’re also significantly funded by Russian oligarchs living in London.

  104. 104
    Platonailedit says:

    Iran today. I wreck tomorrow.

  105. 105
    Amir Khalid says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
    Trump was too lazy to show up/pay attention at his transition briefings, so this is something he never got to hear about nukes: they are there not to be used, because they are too destructive to use in war, but to threaten other people with. Or, at best, to send a message: “Don’t fuck with me.”

  106. 106

    @schrodingers_cat: Just like Single Payer, if the Democrats had only “fought harder”.

  107. 107
    Corner Stone says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Haven’t read HuffPo, but arguably, the D’s did completely capitulate and collapse on the attacks against ACORN. They were only too ready to cave.

  108. 108
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Let’s hope these idiots are all talk, otherwise WW III with nukes.

  109. 109
    Corner Stone says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Not comparable.

  110. 110
    Viva BrisVegas says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Ahh say sir, that would be in the northern hemisphere. Up there with y’all Yankees.

  111. 111

    @Corner Stone: Beatings will continue until morale improves. They should have held strong but saying that Ds were the ones that dealt a final blow to Acorn may be a bit much.

    Breitbart led the charge, but Democrats delivered the killing blow. Has anyone really learned?

  112. 112
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    War in Iran would be so catastrophic to the US it shouldn’t even be contemplated. The actual geography, as well as the human geography, is disadvantageous to the US. ISIS is not done and has either dug into its remaining strongholds in Iraq and Syria or reconstituted itself as a purely guerrilla force. The region’s best strategist is the MG Suleimani – the Quds Force Commander. If the US attacks Iran it will be like placing one’s hand in a wood chipper and pulling out a stump.

    Are the War-With-Iran-mongers just deluded (and maybe stupid), and/or insane, or what? (What’s your opinion?)
    The Guardian story is infuriating, but the direct war-with-Iran-mongering is … deeply disgusting, for the reasons that you outline in particular. (And for other reasons, not least that one of the political levers being manipulated is the Obama-did-it lever (D.J. Trump is so easily manipulated this way), which isn’t even true; it was negotiated by serious and talented and competent professionals, over a long period of time. And other similar emotional/partisan levers are being played.)
    And not even arguably necessary, at least in real reality; there is no evidence that the Iranians are violating the JCPOA, and they have significant motivations to not be even perceived as cheating, potential arms race with Saudi Arabia being one of them.
    You didn’t mention deep-underground facilities, which can easily be made secure and deep enough to be both secure against espionage and not damageable except by nuclear strike, or some covert escapade with high chance of failure, or invasion.
    Irritated.

  113. 113
    Baud says:

    @Corner Stone: They got played pretty well there, but what’s the point of bringing it up nearly a decade later? (I haven’t read the article).

  114. 114
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: You’ll notice that Mattis has backed off regarding Iran? That happens when you become Secretary of Defense and ask to see the war planning and analyses and recognize that even the best ones are really, really bad.

  115. 115
    Viva BrisVegas says:

    @Baud:

    Because of Shirley Sherrod and Al Franken?

  116. 116

    @Frankensteinbeck:Yes. I called it “performative masculinity” on Twitter an hour or so ago. There’s an article I may take apart in another post, although I am sick of those people.

  117. 117

    @Baud: To say that’s why you can’t trust the resistance (paraphrasing a tweet by the article’s author). To demoralize Ds so that they stay at home because both sides do it but Ds are worse.

  118. 118
    James Powell says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Not that different from the reaction to the Shirley Sherrod video. No one wants to talk about it, but Democrats are scared to be seen as helping African Americans in any way.

  119. 119
    Baud says:

    @James Powell: You saw what it got Hillary.

  120. 120
  121. 121
    Corner Stone says:

    CBSNews:
    “The House voted Thursday to deny all federal funds for ACORN in a GOP-led strike against the scandal-tainted community organizing group that comes just three days after the Senate took similar action.

    “ACORN has violated serious federal laws, and today the House voted to ensure that taxpayer dollars would no longer be used to fund this corrupt organization,” said second-ranked House Republican Eric Cantor of Virginia.

    The vote, on a provision attached to a student aid bill, was 345-75, with Democrats supplying all the “no” votes.

    On Monday the Senate voted 83-7 to deny housing and community grant funding to ACORN, which stands for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.”

  122. 122
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Bill Arnold: I think the people agitating for it are just oblivious to reality here. Some of it is constantly nurtured anger and grievance going back to the Islamic Revolution and the taking of the hostages. I have a friend who was one of the guests of the Ayatullah and he thinks making war on Iran would be stupid. Some of it is that for people like Bolton every problem is a nail so every solution requires a hammer. Nagel is like this too, but for him every problem is an insurgency, so every solution is a counterinsurgency despite the fact that we’ve never actually conducted a counterinsurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan. We’ve adapted and applied counterinsurgency principles, just as we’ve adapted and applied irregular and asymmetric and unconventional warfare principles over the past 17 years or so.

    In the case of Rudy and his pimping of regime change on Fox tonight, he was at a MEK event earlier today. MEK has paid him handsomely over the past decade or so to advocate for them. Same with Bolton. And MEK’s goal is regime change. I guarantee he got paid at least mid 5 figures to appear at today’s event, make the remarks there that he did, and then go on Fox and echo them. All as the President’s personal attorney. Given how we’ve seen Special Counsel Mueller operate, Rudy better have his FARA paperwork in order.

  123. 123

    @Corner Stone: Ds are not perfection but I know that they are not out to kill me or deny my humanity. In a two-party system being neutral is giving the Rs a half vote.

  124. 124
    El Caganer says:

    Trump is committed to regime change? When has Trump ever been committed to anything? And why should the neocons have a plan? It’s not like any of them would be doing the actual fighting: a man could get hurt, y’know?

  125. 125
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The company was most likely Black Cube. They are alleged to be SCLs/Cambridge Analytica’s go to ratfuckers. They’re also significantly funded by Russian oligarchs living in London.

    Source? All I found in a quick search was speculation like this:
    Trump’s private spooks: Did he hire Black Cube?
    and in the press, not much, e.g.:
    Trump team ‘hired Israeli spy firm to collect dirt on Obama officials in an attempt to discredit Iran nuclear deal’

    which just mentions Black Cube as a possibility. (I agree that it is a strong possibility, absent more information.)

  126. 126
    Corner Stone says:

    @Baud:

    but what’s the point of bringing it up nearly a decade later? (I haven’t read the article).

    I also have not read the HuffPo article, just like I do not read a lot of TheHill or The Atlantic articles where their main goal is a shiv in the back to Dems. But, IMO, it is inarguable that the D’s did in fact go along readily with the destruction of ACORN. With not so much as a whimper as I recall. I also recall being disgusted that Ms. Sherrod was forced to pull over on a highway and be told she was terminated immediately. So, to me, I think the point of raising these items years later is to damage D’s and disenchant D voters. However, they also are instructive that we have not yet seemed to crawl out from our defensive crouch. Why haven’t we replaced ACORN? Have we, and I missed it?

  127. 127
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Bill Arnold: Speculation. Given when they were hired, given the President’s connections to Bannon and the Mercers who had ownership stakes in SCL/Cambridge Analytica, it makes sense. It is entirely possible, given who Jared, Greenblatt (the Special Envoy for Middle East Peace), and Friedman (US ambassador to Israel) have funded and done business with in Israel over the years before this administration that it was some other company.

  128. 128
    Corner Stone says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I am only advocating for a more aggressive posture moving forward. The time for timidity and incrementalism aka meeting halfway is well beyond long past.
    Learning/remembering what happened in the very recent past could be instructive for D politicians as well as D voters if used correctly.

  129. 129
    Bill Arnold says:

    In the case of Rudy and his pimping of regime change on Fox tonight, he was at a MEK event earlier today. MEK has paid him handsomely over the past decade or so to advocate for them. Same with Bolton. And MEK’s goal is regime change.

    Thanks, I did not know this about Rudy. (Not been paying sufficient attention.)
    (For others, Bolton’s Ascent Gives Iranian Group a New Lease on Life, and People’s Mujahedin of Iran)

  130. 130
    Jay says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    “Btw, I don’t think the majority of Americans can be persuaded by the Liar-in-Chief to support any war in Iran. Trump is less popular than Bush was right after 9/11.”

    Go back in history and read the quotes of Chimpy McStagger’s Team, arguing for war with Iraq.

    Right? How could ‘Murkins have ever been that stupid.

    Then reflect on who your current President is.

  131. 131
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Bill Arnold: Yep, that’s the MEK. They got themselves taken off the terrorist list during the Obama administration. Largely by spreading lots of money around to former politicians and senior political appointees of both parties. Giuliani, Bolton, Howard Dean (still don’t understand this one), etc.

  132. 132
    Jay says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    By all accounts, the MEK is a personality cult. Moonies with moar gunz. I would suspect that few people who spend any time with them, come away unscathed.

  133. 133
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jay: They’re nuts. We had a whole bunch of them sort of confined to a base up in Multi-National Division-North in Iraq for a while. I think the Bush 43 administration decided they could go sometime in late 2008 if I’m recalling the year correctly.

    I remember trying to have to explain them to a bunch of colonels, lieutenant colonels, and majors at one point. They’re so whacky that my uniformed colleagues thought I was putting them on until they realized I wasn’t.

  134. 134
    Brachiator says:

    @El Caganer:

    Trump is committed to regime change? When has Trump ever been committed to anything?

    Very true. Trump is committed to posturing. He believes that looking “tough” and talking about getting good deals is the same thing as executing a coherent foreign policy.

    And why should the neocons have a plan?

    They have never had a plan. In this, they are at least consistent.

  135. 135

    @Corner Stone: I am totally with you on the aggressive tactics where politics is concerned. I am not sure what you mean by incrementalism. One economic policy I think BS is full of hot air. On macroeconomic policy I am closer to Keynes than Marx.

  136. 136
  137. 137
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Huffpost has an article blaming Ds for Acorn’s demise. The article is better than the headline, but the attacks from the left flank have begun.

    This article is of no importance whatever. Maybe D’s had some responsibility for Acorn’s demise. I don’t know and I don’t much care. It is not relevant to anything happening now. Nor do I believe in some general collective blame that is transmitted from Democrat to Democrat.

    Nor do I think that any Democratic Party voter, apart from deep diving political junkies, give a damn about Acorn. It was an moment in history. Move on.

    And if this is the start of some attack from the left, it can easily be slapped down. Because it doesn’t freaking matter.

  138. 138

    @Brachiator: This was a continuation of a discussion on last thread about how progressives are always seem to be more interested in attacking Ds than training their rhetorical fire on Rs. They did this to HRC and then T used those attacks against her that were first initiated by the Progressive Jesus from Vt.

  139. 139
    Bill Arnold says:

    Not sure this has been linked yet:
    Here’s John Bolton Promising Regime Change in Iran by the End of 2018
    Does D.J. Trump know much about his National Security Advisor? This (in mid 2017) should have been disqualifying. (Assuming it’s not a bizarre-MEK-traditional variation on “next year in Jerusalem” or similar.)

    “The outcome of the president’s policy review should be to determine that the Ayatollah Khomeini’s 1979 revolution will not last until its 40th birthday,” Bolton said. (The 40th anniversary of the Iranian revolution will be on February 11, 2019.) “The declared policy of the United States should be the overthrow of the mullahs’ regime in Tehran,” Bolton added. “The behavior and the objectives of the regime are not going to change and, therefore, the only solution is to change the regime itself.”
    As the Iranian expatriate journalist Bahman Kalbasi noted, Bolton concluded his address to the exiles with a rousing promise: “And that’s why, before 2019, we here will celebrate in Tehran!”

  140. 140
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    This was a continuation of a discussion on last thread about how progressives are always seem to be more interested in attacking Ds than training their rhetorical fire on Rs.

    There is a certain kind of progressive who is obsessed with bringing about revolution or democratic socialism Nirvana. So, everything that elected Democrats do is evil, and Democrats are the same as Republicans. These people do not live in the real world, and there is not much point in trying to have long rational discussions with them.

  141. 141
    Corner Stone says:

    @Brachiator: It is stupid to blandly dismiss these kinds of attacks.

  142. 142
    Another Scott says:

    @Corner Stone: TheDailyBeast (from 2014):

    […]

    Four years later, it appears as if those shouts of celebration from the likes of Sarah Palin, Andrew Breitbart, and Rush Limbaugh may have been premature. That’s because from Florida to California, dozens of entities have sprung up in the wake of ACORN, many of them with the same leadershipand doing the same work that the group did for 40 years.

    “These guys created a bunch of organizing Frankensteins around the country,” said Bertha Lewis, who was the ACORN CEO when the organization folded and who now leads The Black Institute, a think tank dedicated to African-American issues. “I had to dismantle ACORN, but nature abhors a vacuum. What were those former ACORN members to do? They were so angry at what they thought was so bogus and unfair that they said we are not going to go away. We have to reorganize.”

    In Philadelphia, the former head of ACORN Pennsylvania leads a group now called Action United, which, together with teachers unions and labor groups fought efforts to shutter low-performing schools, leading direct campaigns that disrupted state board of education meetings. In California, the Alliance of Californians for Community Empowerment (ACCE), lead by an 18-year ACORN vet, is occupying foreclosed homes in San Francisco and pushing the mayor of Richmond to use eminent domain to prevent more foreclosures. In Chicago, a former ACORN organizer leads a group called Action Now, which has battled with Mayor Rahm Emanuel over issues like the minimum wage and school reform. Action Now recently helped elect Toni Foulkes, a former Chicago ACORN leader, to the Chicago City Council.

    […]

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  143. 143
    Corner Stone says:

    @Another Scott: I had the feeling they would not take it laying down. Sounds like good news as an update, thanks.

  144. 144
    Brachiator says:

    @Corner Stone:

    It is stupid to blandly dismiss these kinds of attacks.

    Why should anyone care?

    And there is a suggestion that reviving the issue of Acorn might demoralize some Democratic voters. Nobody gave a shit in 2012. Nobody gave a shit in any special election since. It is fucking ancient history, at best.

    Democrats have a lot of practical stuff to do.

    Also, it is not simply that I dismiss these kinds of attacks. I think that they can easily be dealt with and fought off. There is only a small amount of time that anyone needs to spend with the lunatic fringe of liberalism.

  145. 145
    Corner Stone says:

    @Brachiator: Sigh. Because they keep happening and they keep being successful. You speaking as a whole for the electorate that no one gave a shit about the demise of ACORN speaks all by itself.
    They are going to come again.

  146. 146
    Brachiator says:

    @Bill Arnold:

    Not sure this has been linked yet:
    Here’s John Bolton Promising Regime Change in Iran by the End of 2018

    Fine. Trump will still have to find generals who are willing to execute this neoconservative wet dream. And Trump will have to sign off on it.

    Gives us another reason to say “Vote Democrats.”

    And it provide another opportunity to slap the fools who insist that Democrats and Republicans are the same and the insipid bullshit that Hillary would be worse.

    Hmm. Let’s see. War with Iran. Russia’s natural gas supplies become more valuable, as well as oil supplies outside the Middle East. The mad scramble begins and inflation skyrockets. What a world.

  147. 147
    Brachiator says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Because they keep happening and they keep being successful.

    Where? When? Successful at what?

  148. 148
    Jay says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Incrementalism, after the Rethug’s fiscal “reforms” created the Global Economic Meltdown, there was a brief window in which President Obama could have jailed Banksters, regulated the shit out of financial industries and bailed out homeowners who had been rooked.

    Instead, he bailed out the Banksters and brought back elements of Dodd- Frank.

    At a time when “revolutionary” change would have been accepted, he instead chose to return to the previous status quo.

  149. 149
    Chet Murthy says:

    @Jay:

    At a time when “revolutionary” change would have been accepted

    From a black president? Bollocks. Don’t piss down my leg and tell me it’s rainin’.

    ETA: clearly you’ve forgotten all the inflation doomsaying, deficit fetishism, and austerity fellation. It was rampant on the GrOPer side. And let’s remember that *whatever* Obama proposed, would have had to pass by Lieberman (spit).

    And furthermore, maybe you should read the first few chapters of _The Best And The Brightest_ to understand how high a barrier the Establishment is.

    And none of this matters, b/c if he’d tried, they’d have assassinated him.

  150. 150
    Corner Stone says:

    @Brachiator: Were you in a coma during the Benghazi farce and then all of 2016?

  151. 151
    Corner Stone says:

    @Chet Murthy:

    and bailed out homeowners who had been rooked

    There is simply no ground for you to defend the Obama’s administration of HAMP. They had all the power in that program.

  152. 152
    Corner Stone says:

    @Jay: It’s impossible to make the counter argument that the 2010 elections would have gone *worse* for D’s if the Obama admin had been more stringent on bad actors in the global crisis/collapse.

  153. 153
    Jay says:

    @Chet Murthy:

    He had the House, the Senate and a lot of popular support against the Banksters.

    On the other hand, he had his “Team of Equals” as advisors.

    Roosevelt went “big” when he could have instead, “gone home”. So, eventually, did Lincoln.

  154. 154
    Corner Stone says:

    @Chet Murthy:

    deficit fetishism, and austerity fellation. It was rampant on the GrOPer side

    IT WAS FUCKING RAMPANT ON THE OBAMA SIDE AS WELL!!!
    Jesus Fucking Christ. If I heard kitchen table budget and belt tightening once from the Obama admin I heard it a thousand fucking times.

  155. 155
    Jay says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Yup, if anything, half measures or less, hurt the Obama Administration more, than anything else. The Obama Campaign promised “Hope and Change”, and a huge amount of people bought into that.

  156. 156
    Platonailedit says:

    @Jay: Yeah, why the fuck the first ever black prez just didn’t walk into the shredder for us and didn’t rescue us from decades of ratfuckery from the white guyz and galz while we shellacked him just after two years? Dumbshit.

  157. 157
    Chet Murthy says:

    @Corner Stone: Yes, there were a bunch of Blue Dogs in Congress, weren’t there? Gosh, I’m sure Obama could have changed their minds, But. He. Didn’t. Even. Try.

  158. 158
    Jay says:

    @Platonailedit:

    Here in BC, we barely elected a Dipper/Green Coelition, after decades of the Lib’s robbing us blind.

    They barely got a majority, based on their stance of being anti-corruption, ( Libs ran massive pay for play schemes), environmental, ( Site C, Kinder- Morgan, Gasification export), and health and welfare.

    Guess what, ” Pay for Play” and criminal charges for criminal activities are all in the past now.

    While Kinder-Morgan’s still a no go, Site C is going forward because of “sunk costs”, so another $2.9 billion of taxpayers dollars for a boondoggle, and Malaysian billionaires are going to be given tens of millions of dollars in a welfare scheme to ( never) ship BC LNG to Asia.

    The Dipper’s/Greens won’t get re-elected, because at least, the crooks and criminals are honest, and you know where you sit with them.

  159. 159
    Brachiator says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Were you in a coma during the Benghazi farce and then all of 2016?

    What impact did Benghazi have on Democrats, apart from making Hillary look stronger? What lefties attacked Democrats over Benghazi?

    What does anything you write here have to do with 2016?

    More important, what does any of this have to do with party strategy going into 2018 and 2020?

    Democrats, Bernie Bros, Republicans can and will bring up all kind of shit. Aside from reliving it, the only question is, why should I give a shit, and if I do give a shit, how should I respond, and what else that might be important should I be doing?

  160. 160
    Platonailedit says:

    @Jay:

    because at least, the crooks and criminals are honest, and you know where you sit with them.

    With that kind of brain numbing stupid logic, you get what you deserve.

  161. 161
    Brachiator says:

    @Jay:

    Incrementalism, after the Rethug’s fiscal “reforms” created the Global Economic Meltdown

    Bullshit. This was a global problem, and only so much that could have been done in the US.

    , there was a brief window in which President Obama could have jailed Banksters, regulated the shit out of financial industries and bailed out homeowners who had been rooked.

    It was a tiny window. The GOP and some Democrats had previously passed laws preventing bankers from being jailed. And apart from giving progressives stiffies, jailing these dopes would not have done much.

    “Regulated the shit out of financial industries” does not mean much. The Democrats in Congress could have written some legislation. Wonder why they didn’t.

    Homeowners were bailed out. It’s called the Mortgage Relief Act. Democrats in Congress could have made it stronger. Again, they did not do so.

  162. 162
    Corner Stone says:

    @Brachiator: You keep harumphing along, friend. It’s what you do best. Ignore their attacks at our peril.
    Humph! That didn’t change my vote! Why should I or any rational voter care?! Harumph!

  163. 163
    Corner Stone says:

    @Chet Murthy: Too bad he was president, I guess.

  164. 164
    Chet Murthy says:

    @Brachiator:

    jailing these dopes would not have done much.

    I gotta disagree here. -If- we (we, not -he- (Obama)) could have jailed these perps, I think we’d be much better-off. And yes, I still believe it is fantasy to believe that Obama could have done this and lived.

  165. 165
    Chet Murthy says:

    @Corner Stone: Clearly you are not Aware Of All Internet Traditions, d00d.

  166. 166
    Corner Stone says:

    I tell you what. Let’s say a nominal D wins the presidency in 2020 and we have a majority in the House and a stalemate in the Senate. Go after Trump and associates…or no?

  167. 167
    Corner Stone says:

    @Chet Murthy: Don’t d00d me. The cake was a lie.

  168. 168
    Chet Murthy says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Go after Trump and associates…or no?

    Yes, go after them. But it’s relevant to know -why-, and why it’s different from the perps in the financial crisis. The latter were never a threat to our Republic. The former? Yes, they’re a threat to our Republic, and they need to be made an example of, so that nobody else tries again. Whoever the next Dem President is (if we have one) needs to understand that that’s part of the job — and if they don’t or can’t do it, they need to stand down.

    And yes, I think that preventing Putin from destroying the American Imperium (and our relationships with our allies) is more important than preventing another financial crisis. As Brad Delong pointed out, it was due to the international structures we Americans erected, that since 1945, no army has crossed the Rhine to wage war. Where, since 111 BC (I think it was), it happened on average every 37 year.s EVERY 37 YEARS. The last two times, those wars engulfed most of the world.

    Yes, the injustices of our current version of capitalism matter. But compared to that? No, they don’t matter.

  169. 169
    NotMax says:

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Elder memory failing me on remembering the name of the camp MEK was corralled within during the U.S. debacle in Iraq. Definitely do remember that it was exclusively assigned to Bulgarian troops to guard it, patrol it and act as liaison with the outside the perimeter world.

    Did a whole series of posts following (as best one could) what was going on there at the time on the now long defunct blog. Some very sketchy activity, indeed.

    Dollars to doughnuts some of the Bulgarian commanders have tales aplenty to relate.

  170. 170
    Brachiator says:

    @Corner Stone:

    You keep harumphing along, friend. It’s what you do best. Ignore their attacks at our peril.

    No, you failed to explain why anyone should give a shit about past issues related to Acorn.

    You have failed to show that there is or has been any peril that anyone need to be concerned about here. I acknowledge that there might be attacks. I don’t see anything that can’t be dealt with. I asked what should be done. You got nothing.

    Humph! That didn’t change my vote! Why should I or any rational voter care?! Harumph!

    Nope. Sorry. I don’t assume that voters will or should follow my lead.

  171. 171
    Corner Stone says:

    @Brachiator: 34 state lege, House, Senate and presidency. Majority on SCOTUS.
    If you can’t follow, I’m not going to put the feed trail out there for you.

  172. 172
    Corner Stone says:

    I harumph! Therefore it is to harumph! Harumph, I say!

  173. 173
    David Evans says:

    @Mr Stagger Lee: I think the game plan is
    1 Bomb all their nuclear facilities
    2 Declare victory.

  174. 174

    @Jay: So everything that Obama did was incrementalism, he gets zero credit for getting us out the Great Recession.

    Instead, he bailed out the Banksters and brought back elements of Dodd- Frank.

    Dodd-Frank was enacted after the Great Recession, signed into law in 2010.
    So you have no idea what Dodd-Frank is, but know it is not good enough because Obama signed it.

  175. 175
    Jay says:

    @Platonailedit:

    Yup, that’s one of the reasons why we had Libs for over 16 years. They delivered on their bad for the Province but good for the 1% promises. The Dipper’s never delivered on their promises. Everything wound up half assed, even when they had a “mandate”.

  176. 176
    Jay says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Even Krugman gave Obama a C – on the Great Recession. Remember robosigning? Funny how Wells Fargo still does it.

    Remember all the Iraq War Criminal trials?

    Yup, me neither.

    President Obama had a brief window in which he had a mandate, in which to be radical. A brief period to be Roosevelt, not Clinton.

    If the past is any guide, after 2020 the Democratic Party President will shut down the Trump/Russia inquiry for commity, and will try to govern “bipartisanly”.

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