Joy-Ann Reid Has Apologized

I wasn’t going to do a front page post on this, but the same clown has tried to spam two different posts on two different nights about this, so now that Joy-Ann Reid has formally apologized, I reckoned I’d put up a post on it. Here’s her apology:

And here’s her guest/fill in host and Washington Post columnist Jonathan Capehart’s transcribed response:

My guess is that this won’t put the issue to rest. That the same people who have been screaming for Reid’s head all week will continue to do so. Especially as the person who went spelunking through a ten year old defunct blog in order to bring things to this point has now decided to go after Markos Moulitsas over something someone else posted on Daily Kos back in 2005 and appears to now be going after Rachel Maddow for backing (at this point in time) Tom Brokaw in regard to the sexual assault allegations against him (I’m not linking to that, you can go and find it if you want. Same twitter handle that was publishing Reid’s old blog posts).

I don’t know who this puritanical pony is who has decided to make it his or her work to go after these people because he or she is hiding behind a nym, nor do I really care why they’re doing it. But I reckon that he or she won’t stop because too many people are now weaponizing his or her work, which was likely the point.

One final and important point: does anyone actually want to be judged on something they wrote ten years ago? Or twenty? Or five? Or, in some cases, one? When they’ve clearly based on recent words and deeds changed their positions? Just in my professional work alone my views have changed significantly in the past decade largely because of adding first an experiential element to my work when I left academia and began doing applied work for the military and then when I transitioned from doing tactical work to strategic level work. Nothing is static – not people and not the world. Everything changes. Sometimes for the better. Sometimes for the worse. Perhaps, just maybe, we should cut ourselves and each other a bit of slack. After all we’re only human.

Open thread.

325 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    One cannot criticize Joy Reid for what she wrote without practicing identity politics, and that is something I absolutely will not do.

  2. 2
    Baud says:

    One final and important point: does anyone actually want to be judged on something they wrote ten years ago? Or twenty? Or five? Or, in some cases, one?

    Or in my case, this morning.

  3. 3
    guachi says:

    No, Joy, I don’t believe you when you say you didn’t write those things.

  4. 4
    Baud says:

    I don’t know who this puritanical pony is who has decided to make it his or her work to go after these people because he or she is hiding behind a nym,

    Assange?

  5. 5
    rikyrah says:

    I👏 Support 👏Joy👏

  6. 6
    Thoughtful David says:

    This looks like Russian disruption bots or trolls. I’m going to ignore it, and hope everyone else does too.

  7. 7
    El Caganer says:

    Absolutely. If people were really unable to change we would be extinct.

  8. 8
    Thoughtful David says:

    So, some time ago, I asked if anyone here knows of a list/database anywhere online that lists the resignings, convictions, and other malfeasance of congresspersons and administration critters, going back, say, 10 years. I didn’t get a good answer, and still haven’t seen a list like I’m looking for.
    The reason I asked is that my impression is that being forced to resign or being convicted while in office or for actions while in office seems to me hugely biased to Republicans. Yes, we can all remember Anthony Weiner and Al Franken, but, cripes, the Pennsylvania Republican delegation all by itself has already had two resignations over sex scandals in the last year (Meehan and Murphy). So, does anyone know if such a list exists? If not should we create one?

  9. 9
    Nelle says:

    Quite a panel she put together this morning. I especially appreciated the comment that the same person seems unperturbed by what Trump or Pence or Pompeo are saying right now.

  10. 10
    Lapassionara says:

    Thanks, Adam. I have not really been following this dust up, but I find it interesting that someone seems to want to undercut the most effective voices for reason and sanity. Our country is in an existential crisis. We need all hands focused on solving that problem.

  11. 11
    Baud says:

    @Thoughtful David: I think it would be useful to have our own wiki of GOP malfeasance. People forget too easily.

  12. 12
    MattF says:

    I hope Joy continues to get support from the powers that be at MSNBC. Being in the business, they understand that there’s a RW info-bubble that won’t and can’t be punctured– this will become the Joy story no matter what they do or won’t do. Giving the RW a scalp is the wrong answer.

  13. 13
    The Moar You Know says:

    No, Joy, I don’t believe you when you say you didn’t write those things.

    @guachi: serious question: what does it matter? She’s on the side of the angels now.

  14. 14
    lamh36 says:

    Joy Ann Reid was a trial balloon for GG and his ilk. Expect to see more of this from that front as they can. I suppose it’s a good thing that GG seems to have a soft spot for our esteemed blog host, because sure as the sun will rise, if he didn’t…I’d fully expect them to be scouring past wingnutty post from John’s previous life, for ANY example to use against him.

    Let’s be very clear, this was not JUST RWNJ going wanting Joy Ann Reid’s head, but some of the “allied” folks of the left along with GG.

    ETA: Here is GG still after Joy Ann Reid’s head…”I believe Joy Ann Reid is not anti-LGBT…BUT”

    @AFreshPrincess
    HOW WAS THAT NOT THE ISSUE?
    1. All week people have called her homophobic.
    2. PFLAG rescinded her award.
    This dude. #AMJoy

    10:24 AM – Apr 28, 2018https://twitter.com/AFreshPrincess/status/990250366469115905

    FUQ U GG

  15. 15
    Baud says:

    @lamh36: I actually think Cole might be a Teflon blogger.

  16. 16

    Well, I care why they’re doing it. This is ratfucking plain and simple. Some James O’Keefe type shit that needs to be outed and stopped.

    the person who went spelunking through a ten year old defunct blog in order to bring things to this point has now decided to go after Markos Moulitsas over something someone else posted on Daily Kos back in 2005 and appears to now be going after Rachel Maddow

    What’s the saying? Three times=enemy action

  17. 17
    Aimai says:

    @guachi: stop it. The right wing attempt to divide African American voters from LGBTQ people is intense and longstanding. going after a highly visible, educated, important AA woman over views she has publicly repudiated is stupid, short sighted, and doomed to mske more enemies than friends. Why split a coalition? Coalitions are fragile but they can become stronger with care and cultivation. the goal of political or cultural conscious raising is creating more allies, not attacking and defenestrating more people

  18. 18
    debit says:

    I want to remind everyone who is still pushing for Joy to be fired or to quit: Al Franken. Weird how all those accusations just stopped once he stepped down, isn’t it?

    And since we’re speaking about Al Franken, anyone else catch that interview with Gillibrand where, when asked if Mendendez should step down, she replied that the commtitee’s recommended disciplinary action was sufficient. Really! Gosh, where was this deference to committee findings a few months ago?

  19. 19
    Baud says:

    Maddow for backing (at this point in time) Tom Brokaw in regard to the sexual assault allegations against him 

    Whether sincere or by contract, Maddow has always been overly kind to her fellow MSNBC employees.

  20. 20

    @Baud: Our very RWNJ directory with crimes.

  21. 21
    Thoughtful David says:

    @Baud:
    It would be easy to set up.

  22. 22
    Baud says:

    @debit: I read your first line as saying that Franken was pushing for Joy to be fired.

  23. 23
    RepubAnon says:

    @Thoughtful David: Precisely – could be right-wing trolls, could be Kremlin disruption agents, or it could be the dreaded PC Police. Either way, digging up old, embarrassing things people said or wrote should be ignored absent evidence that they still hold those views.

    Regarding allegations of more serious misconduct, it depends upon the severity and nature of the conduct. See Bill Cosby’s recent conviction as an example of behavior severe enough to warrant current ostracism.

  24. 24
    Thoughtful David says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    To be fair, I think it should include Democrats too–we need to know what others do.

  25. 25
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    @Thoughtful David:

    That seems like something a big blog like dailykos should have.

  26. 26
    Mnemosyne says:

    @lamh36:

    Joy Ann Reid was a trial balloon for GG and his ilk. Expect to see more of this from that front as they can.

    Yup. Al Franken was the political example and Joy Reid is the media example.

    And I love how not one person seems to have been suspicious that white supremacist Russian operative Glenn Greenwald just happens to be at the center of this. Just a strange co-inkydink, I’m sure.

  27. 27
    Baud says:

    @Thoughtful David:

    we need to know what others do.

    Don’t worry, they’ll tell us.

  28. 28

    My first town meeting dispatch. It was overly long and boring. Some people love to talk too much. Next week we vote to approve (or reject) the tax increases approved in the meeting.
    Also too, acoustics in a school gym are awful, you could barely hear people speak.

  29. 29
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat: How will you vote?

  30. 30
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    I think there is a movement to fracture the Democrat and Progressive side but on the Right as well with the demand of Trump Loyalty with the massacre of anti-Trump writers at Red State. Chaos is Putin’s friend.
    For football fans, you see the Twitter minening with the newly picked Buffalo Bills QB Josh Allen who wrote some inflammatory stuff as high schooler.

  31. 31

    @Baud: Its a modest increase, voted yes yesterday (it was a voice vote) and will vote yes for the increase next week.

  32. 32
    opiejeanne says:

    @rikyrah: I support Joy too. People change, their views evolve. She’s a powerful voice for .. I was going to say for our side, but really she’s a powerful voice for what is good and right and decent.

  33. 33
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Congrats, citizen!

    @opiejeanne: Isn’t that the same as our side?

  34. 34
    Thoughtful David says:

    @Baud:
    You would think, but I’ve never been able to find it. Maybe my google-fu is weak or something, but I haven’t been able to pull it up.

  35. 35
    opiejeanne says:

    @Baud:

    I think it would be useful to have our own wiki of GOP malfeasance. People forget too easily.

    There’s just so damned much of it.

  36. 36
    Brachiator says:

    @Aimai:

    The right wing attempt to divide African American voters from LGBTQ people is intense and longstanding. going after a highly visible, educated, important AA woman over views she has publicly repudiated is stupid, short sighted, and doomed to mske more enemies than friends.

    This ain’t just the right wing. There are so-called progressives, including some black male progressives, who hate Reid and are eager to take her down.

  37. 37
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Immigrant-hater, Nazi defender, Ron and Rand Paul booster Glenn Greenwald can go fuck himself for playing this game, up one ear and out the other.

  38. 38
    Drunkenhausfrau says:

    Anyone else smell Roger Stone in this?

  39. 39
    Mary G says:

    I not only support Joy, I am suspicious of people who don’t, including some who surprised me. The flap over Chelsea Clinton and Amy Chozick cut down my Twitter following list. Why Chelsea is supposed to be lying about her hair treatment is ridiculous.

  40. 40
    jacy says:

    @debit:

    I still think the Franken thing stunk to high heaven. Hit job.

    And back to Joy Reid — even if she did say something once, I’ll go by what she’s been doing for the last couple of years, which has been awesome. It would be a terrible world if we were branded with the worst thing we ever said or did. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be held to that kind of standard.

  41. 41

    There was an R critter along with his mother who wants to run for Congress collecting signatures to appear on the ballot, outside the school. I am happy to report that they were having difficulty collecting signatures. Our local D Congress critter ran unopposed last cycle.

  42. 42
    MazeDancer says:

    @lamh36:

    Let’s be very clear, this was not JUST RWNJ wanting Joy Ann Reid’s head, but some of the “allied” folks of the left along with GG

    So angry making. Trying to take down one of the loudest, truest, smartest, and dare we say, most female and black, voices on mainstream news. Joy has such a diverse group of commentators each week. Without her, plenty of interesting and important voices would not have made it to big time cable news appearances.

    Joy also brooks no nonsense on her show from rightwingers. So, she makes “enemies” on several sides. Except with those who support the Truth.

    Felt like a preview of the elections, where all kinds of crazy going to attack Dems. And “journalists” going to spread the vitriol like they savaged Chelsea Clinton all over Twitter for politely protesting misrepresentations about her life (and hair.).

    Very impressive panel and discussion this morning on #AMJoy. It’s always a great show.

  43. 43
    Baud says:

    @Drunkenhausfrau: It doesn’t really matter who among the various possible bad actors is in charge.

  44. 44
    opiejeanne says:

    @Baud: One would hope we are on the side of the angels.
    Someone else above mentioned sanity, a thing I should have added.

  45. 45
    lamh36 says:

    @kimfrederi
    As a lesbian I never needed this apology and have been mad as hell abt those attacking her. The country was a diff place 10 yrs ago and many LGBT ppl have themselves said and done homophobic things until they come out. That said, it was a master class in adulting & accountability

    10:50 AM – 28 Apr 2018

    https://twitter.com/kimfrederi/status/990257012046000128

  46. 46
    NotMax says:

    One final and important point: does anyone actually want to be judged on something they wrote ten years ago? Or twenty? Or five? Or, in some cases, one?

    Yes, absolutely, if what is meant by judged is whether I can or cannot, will or will not, in no uncertain terms defend or refute, embrace or discard, what is at issue. Simply put, what I was is an integral and inseparable part of what I have since become.

    Forgive but don’t forget.

  47. 47
    dww44 says:

    @Lapassionara: If I were a real conspiracy believer, I’d think that that might be the rationale behind these recent, full throated attacks on some of our most effective progressive voices. It would be informative and enlightening to know who exactly IS behind all of this.

  48. 48
    Johnny Gentle (famous crooner) says:

    I’m not saying she should be fired or anything, but I don’t know why people keep missing the issue.

    The main issue isn’t just that she wrote those posts, it’s that she lied about it. (Oh, excuse me, “really doesn’t believe” she wrote them). Had she just said that yes, it was more of the same dumb shit she apologized for before, from the same time frame, that might’ve been the end of it. But it’s like she realized she apologized once and couldn’t or wouldn’t do it again, so she came up with some incredibly dumb hacking story that no one believed and which the Internet Archive debunked.

    As with most things, it’s not the act but the cover-up. But hey, blame Roger Stone all you want because it makes you sound all politically knowledgeable.

  49. 49
    lamh36 says:

    @Baud: that may be the case, but I also think John does makes sure not to go too far in any GG criticque, even when many of us think it is warranted (IMHO at the height of the ABL/GG/BJ wars). So as long as JC stays on GGs good side, then it’s all good. But if he were to ever really dig into GG the way he has into other who have done as much shit as GG has done to allies on the left…that teflon status from GG would evaporate in seconds.

  50. 50
    opiejeanne says:

    @lamh36: Many LGBT people who later came out as gay* such as Michael Huffington, right after he lost his bid to unseat Dianne Feinstein, like WEEKS after speaking his scathing words about homosexuality during the campaign.

    * I note that he now identifies as bi, and he’s still a Republican.

  51. 51
    Baud says:

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner): Hello, stranger. Thank you for you input. We are moving on to more important things. Have a nice day.

  52. 52
    Karen Potter says:

    I had to take a long drive, just to get away from temptation of my computer.
    After the Cosby ruling a friend posted a meme about 6 sexual predators; Cosby being the only black man, the only one to go to trial. She posted both on her personal and on her Christian Outreach; the death and rape threats came to Christian Outreach; she is white while her husband is black (think eggplant dark) so her personal site got some racism threats thrown in along with other threats. The worst threats came from white, male, “Christians;” all I could think is that if the revolution starts in the next couple of days I better stay in the kitchen away from the rifles.

  53. 53
    guachi says:

    @The Moar You Know: It attacks her credibility. She hasn’t taken responsibility for her actions so how can any of us forgive her for things she says she didn’t do?

  54. 54

    As someone who’s hella queer and trans AF, I really don’t give a shit what snarky stuff she may/may not have written 10 years ago — especially given how prevalent homophobia and transphobia were among people who otherwise viewed themselves of “good liberals.” Even within only the past couple years. Even here among the jackeltariet.

    People evolve. What matters is what she says and does today.*

    Especially in this case, which reeks of rodent copulation.

    *Although for those who actively work/worked against my rights, active atonement is required before I’m will forgive (but not forget).

  55. 55
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner):

    As a lesbian I never needed this apology and have been mad as hell abt those attacking her. The country was a diff place 10 yrs ago and many LGBT ppl have themselves said and done homophobic things until they come out. That said, it was a master class in adulting & accountability

    What do you have to say to this?

  56. 56
    opiejeanne says:

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner): Who are you again?

  57. 57
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    @Aimai: There was move to do that, in 2008 the year Barack Obama was elected, Prop 8 the anti marriage equality amendment passed in California, noted with the fact that the AA vote was slightly in the majority for Yes. I remember reading Democratic Underground, the bitter rants at African Americans, stuff that would be home at Reddit, or ( not so) Free Republic.

  58. 58
    debit says:

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner): You don’t think it’s possible to not recognize something you wrote over a decade ago?

  59. 59
    opiejeanne says:

    @Baud: LIke eating pie? I like pie too.

  60. 60
  61. 61

    @opiejeanne: Good catch on the Karen Potter persona, the other day.

  62. 62
    Johnny Gentle (famous crooner) says:

    @Baud:
    Don’t be a smug asshole in a thread that’s specifically about this topic. No one’s stopping you from moving on. And assuming the “stranger” remark is supposed to imply I’m new and you’re superior, I assure you I’ve been here a long-ass time, probably long before you.

  63. 63
    smintheus says:

    I don’t support any of those people, particularly the ones who deny doing what they obviously did do. They merit criticism. That’s not to say that I’d let criticizing Reid or Brokaw distract from criticizing other more important targets – like virtually every Republican in DC.

  64. 64
    Mary G says:

    The weirdest part of this Joy Reid kerfuffle is watching viciously anti-gay right wingers pretending for a hot second that they actually care about civil rights for LGBT Americans just so they can attack a liberal media personality.— JoeMyGod (@JoeMyGod) April 28, 2018

  65. 65
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @debit:
    Especially if you deleted it.

  66. 66
    lamh36 says:

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner): nope the point of the intial outrage was that she was/is a homophobic and anti-LGTBQ and the post were the proof…period.

    But let’s play your game…she admits to the post…apologizes, as she has now (no less than a week after the story blew up mind you)…then it stops there right?

    I’d like to think you and I both know it would NOT…in fact..right now the folks are pushing the 2nd wave is that Joy Ann Reid is also anti-muslim/islamaphobe…

    http://www.newsweek.com/anti-m.....log-904507

  67. 67
    Lapassionara says:

    @dww44: Yes. this. And I do think there are people “conspiring” to take the US back to the halcyon days of the Hoover administration. They want to do away with the New Deal, and the Supreme Court rulings that made it possible.

  68. 68
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner):

    Blah blah blah blah blah blah I carried an M-16 blah blah you kids and your electric twangers blah blah

  69. 69
    lamh36 says:

    @JoeMyGod
    Follow Follow @JoeMyGod
    More
    The weirdest part of this Joy Reid kerfuffle is watching viciously anti-gay right wingers pretending for a hot second that they actually care about civil rights for LGBT Americans just so they can attack a liberal media personality.

    10:52 AM – 28 Apr 2018

  70. 70
    Johnny Gentle (famous crooner) says:

    @debit: I find it highly doubtful. And she didn’t say she didn’t remember it, she said she was hacked. And if she were uncertain, she probably could’ve checked with the Internet Archive before playing the victim.

    I wouldn’t have thought it a big deal one way or the other because lord knows a lot of Democrats were saying the same things around that time period (if not more recently). It’s how a ton of people–obviously here, and exponentially more on dKos–accepted that she was hacked and decried the dirty tricksters. It seems to me we have a problem accepting when our people fuck up.

  71. 71
    Baud says:

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner): Lol. You lost any credibility when you brought up Roger Stone. As if it’s implausible that Stone would ratfuck us.

  72. 72
    opiejeanne says:

    @Baud: Baked a cherry pie last night: https://flic.kr/p/26CpMct

  73. 73
    guachi says:

    @Aimai: Do you believe Reid when she claims she didn’t write those blog posts? She hasn’t provided any credible evidence that she was hacked. Do you think it’s important to find out if she was hacked or not? Reid does. She hired someone and referred the matter to the FBI.

  74. 74
    Baud says:

    @guachi:

    Then why don’t we wait until the FBI investigation is complete.

  75. 75
    Shana says:

    @Baud: see also: Uncle Pat Buchannan.

  76. 76
    B.B.A. says:

    The 2016 primary is never going to fucking end, is it.

    Let’s just get Wilmer’s bizarre rape fantasies out there, so we can force him to resign too, how about that?

  77. 77
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner):
    It seems to work the Republicans pretty well. I think the real problem is with people like you who can’t see the bigger picture. Joy Reid is an important voice against Trump and the Republicans. By obsessing over the way Reid apologized you’re playing right into the hands of reactionary forces.

  78. 78

    It’s entirely plausible that she wrote them and sort of forgot about it. Things have changed extremely quickly on the LGBT front, and I know people who used to make trans jokes that now police them, who sometimes forget or deny that they used to as well. (It’s not a gotcha thing but it’s come up)

    Regardless, they were unquestionably (IMO) on her blog at the time. It’s good that she apologized. Ratfucking or no, if you did something wrong (or for whatever reason bad things ended up on your blog long enough to be repeatedly archived), you should apologize.

    And she did.

    As with Hillary’s various nothingburger ‘scandals’, the content of the issue is largely irrelevant, but as a gay man I do actually care here and it’s ended to my satisfaction.

  79. 79
    debit says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: I’ll admit I haven’t been following this all that closely. Just enough to know what the accusations were, and that Joy denied them. It smelled like rat fucking to me, and I didn’t want to feed it with clicks.

  80. 80
    Baud says:

    @Shana: Yeah, I almost mentioned that. It’s actually pretty disgusting if we really want to start being judgmental about generally good people.

  81. 81
    lamh36 says:

    @lamh36: @Mary G: Ha…great minds…!!!

  82. 82

    I think going after Markos and Rachel will kill this. A whole lot of conflicted people are going to go “Oh, another ratfuck.” O’Keefe’s schtick worked once before people wized up. Still, what MSNBC decides is the ultimate issue, and who knows how they think?

  83. 83
    Aimai says:

    @guachi: as Imani gandy pointed out no one drags the FBI in lightly. She clearly does believe she was hacked. I find her VERY believable.

  84. 84
    Mary G says:

    Just because I so enjoy seeing the right wing’s supposed superiority in religion exposed for the fraud it is, here is part of an essay on Medium from Dr. Barber and another minister, “Speaker Ryan Firing Chaplain Conroy Is True Attack on Religious Liberty”:

    Preachers must endorse God’s politics. Over 2,000 verses in the Bible insist on justice for the poor. If the Bible is our guide, God’s main political priority is good news for the poor.

    We are called to be prophets to the nation, not endorsers of the nation’s politicians and injustices. If preachers had stayed out of politics, we wouldn’t have had the abolition movement to end slavery and win the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments. We wouldn’t have women’s suffrage, civil rights protections, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

    Speaker Ryan, who claims to champion religious liberty, has acted to silence the moral truth of Scripture. Most Republicans in the House today voted against an investigation into his reason for firing Fr. Conroy, thus backing the Speaker’s action.

    If they fired Fr. Conroy for praying for God’s politics in the House, they will also have to get rid of Moses and Isaiah, Deborah and Jesus, Frederick Douglass and Francis Perkins, Dorothy Day and Martin Luther King. As preachers we cannot remain silent while those with political power try to silence the Word of God.

    Rev. Dr. William J. Barber, II, Repairers of the Breach

    Minister Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove, School for Conversion

  85. 85
    Alain the site fixer says:

    FYI folks, I’m doing some back-end work so site will be a bit sluggish at times for next few hours.

  86. 86
    Earl says:

    @The Moar You Know

    what does it matter? She’s on the side of the angels now.

    First, Joy-Ann wrote that stuff. Anyone believing it is planted is a moron, particularly since you can find eg a post on Democratic Underground dating from the same period criticizing it. Apparently our mystery hacker was foresightful enough to plant confirmation elsewhere ten years ago!

    As for the people on team “how dare you defame a journalist by accurately quoting her words”… We should expect a little more from people on our team than to peddle transparent lies. And consider whether a gay activist who peddled in a bit of light racism ten years ago would get the same bygones! treatment that Joy-Ann is demanding.

  87. 87
    Johnny Gentle (famous crooner) says:

    @lamh36: I’m talking about the part that personally bothers me, so no, I can’t speak to what would have happened had she not invented a hacking story. But it probably wouldn’t come and gone a lot quicker if not for the hacking defense, which made it a bigger story and brought other journalistic outlets into the fray. I read a whole long article a couple days ago discussing how the Wayback Machine crawls websites and how likely it is it could’ve been altered, blah blah. This part of it is all self-inflicted.

    Again, I’m less concerned with what she wrote than the knee-jerk “circle the wagons and blame the republicans” thing that always goes on when a Democrat is in the spotlight. It reminds me very much of some of the Franken stuff.

    But whatever, I’ve said my piece and clearly my disagreement has upset some of the mean girls who live on these comment boards, so I’ll just move along.

  88. 88
    debit says:

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner): She said that she did not recognize words being attributed to her. My first thought would have been that I was hacked too. Did you not watch her apology? She said that she thought was hacked, hired forensic investigators who could not prove she was. So she owned it and apologized. What else is she supposed to do?

  89. 89
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner):

    I find it highly doubtful. And she didn’t say she didn’t remember it, she said she was hacked. And if she were uncertain, she probably could’ve checked with the Internet Archive before playing the victim.

    And this is truly stupid. Isn’t it possible that she forgot she wrote them on her blog and is certain she didn’t write them and thinks she was hacked, because she’s so embarrassed otherwise?

  90. 90

    @Earl:

    And consider whether a gay activist who peddled in a bit of light racism ten years ago would get the same bygones! treatment that Joy-Ann is demanding.

    I mean… not exactly what you said, but Dan Savage was pretty famously transphobic through the 90’s and early 00’s, and he’s recanted and is still an A-list authority on LGBT issues.

  91. 91
    Brachiator says:

    @guachi:

    It attacks her credibility. She hasn’t taken responsibility for her actions so how can any of us forgive her for things she says she didn’t do?

    What actions? There’s only her blog posts.

  92. 92
    Shana says:

    @Baud: I assume you mean Rachel not Pat there.

  93. 93
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @debit:

    What else is she supposed to do?

    Wear a red “A” on her dress and take up knitting.

  94. 94
    Baud says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷: Yeah. FWIW, I agree that it would have been better if she said she wasn’t hacked (assuming she wasn’t), but the notion that she could not have sincerely believed that is implausible, especially after 2016.

  95. 95
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Karen Potter:

    all I could think is that if the revolution starts in the next couple of days I better stay in the kitchen away from the rifles.

    You don’t keep a back up armory in the kitchen? What kind of revolutionary are you?//

  96. 96
    Baud says:

    @Shana: Yes, Rachel is the good person but referring to Pat as Uncle was outrageous.

  97. 97
    Peale says:

    @lamh36: they cared briefly after Orlando, too, since they thought they could use us to make their Islamic bigotry a wedge issue for democrats.

  98. 98
    opiejeanne says:

    @schrodingers_cat: What’d I miss? I was watching her warily, not liking her after her nasty words to Omnes and Adam but staying out of her cheery little comments.

    My god, I heard Natasha’s voice every time I read her posts, but after I called her on it she seemed to stop doing it as much.

  99. 99
    lamh36 says:

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner): well see where you’re there is I don’t blame Republicans…this was a coalition of forces…believe me.

    The hacking is the the thread to stand on that left because the salaciousness of the post was the homophobic nature of them and it’s why this COALITION figured it was a good way to get back at Joy Ann Reid and take her down a peg.

    And I can see it has succeeded in the eyes of some…of which I am not at all surprised.

    As for you leaving because of “mean girls”….

  100. 100
  101. 101
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Baud:
    I agree that wasn’t the best thing to claim at the start without any evidence but I can imagine being blind-sided by this, not remember you wrote it, and saying you thought you were being ratfucked especially after 2016. It’s entirely plausible.

  102. 102
    debit says:

    @guachi: Did you watch the apology, in which she states that she has no choice other than to own those words and apologize for them? I mean, I understand that forgiveness is not a conscious choice, and it hasn’t happened for you. But you undermine yourself when you flat out state she hasn’t accepted responsibility when there’s video proof at the top of the post.

  103. 103
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Hell, we forgave Robert Byrd. Did you know he was once in the Klan?

  104. 104

    @opiejeanne: You didn’t miss a thing.

  105. 105
    guachi says:

    @debit: I rewatched the clip. Reid doesn’t own up to writing the comments on her blog. She doesn’t apologize for them. She apologizes for other dumb and hurtful comments she’s made and understands how people could believe she wrote the blog posts.

    But she doesn’t apologize for her blog posts.

  106. 106
    Emma says:

    @guachi: I had a blog over 10 years ago and it lasted a little more than a couple of years. If you presented some of that stuff to me without attribution, I wouldn’t recognize it.

  107. 107

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷:

    Isn’t it possible that she forgot she wrote them on her blog and is certain she didn’t write them and thinks she was hacked, because she’s so embarrassed otherwise?

    This happens to me when I look at code I wrote ten years ago! As well as portions of stories, though not the stories themselves. But I’m not a prolific writer.

  108. 108
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @guachi:

    Reid does. She hired someone and referred the matter to the FBI.

    Wouldn’t her taking these steps lend more credibility to the notion that she sincerely believes she was hacked, whether she was or not?

  109. 109
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lamh36: I just read both of those posts and even with her quoting and excerpting Dim Jim and the guy in Mexico, they were clearly anti neo-Con posts. Specifically going after the neo-Cons, as well as select Europeans, who push that Islam cannot be compatible with western democratic norms and values and therefore Muslims are not able to be assimilated, or more accurately, socialized to them. The quotes and the excerpts were to provide examples of these attitudes.

    People need to learn how to read.

  110. 110
    Karen Potter says:

    @Adam L Silverman: So where do you keep your back up armory? I do have recipe for Greek Fire.

  111. 111
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @B.B.A.:

    The 2016 primary is never going to fucking end, is it.

    Cui bono?

  112. 112
    opiejeanne says:

    @B.B.A.: Has he ever recanted?

  113. 113
    debit says:

    @guachi: I took her apology differently than you did.

  114. 114
    Baud says:

    @opiejeanne: I’m more upset that he was still pushing the rigged primary CP earlier this week.

  115. 115
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Aimai: My feeling on this is she relied on Senior Chief Nance for recommendations. And that this particular recommendation, as with who to pick as her cyber security guy, was not the best of advice.

  116. 116
    gene108 says:

    I am thinking the only some folks will accept her apology would be like how Darth Vader accepted Captain Needa’s

  117. 117
    lamh36 says:

    @Adam L Silverman: of course they do Adam…but as proven time again..when folks have an ax to grind…they will search 10 year old blog post for any mention of any thing they can possibly can to grind said ax.

    And as usual, they can find just enough “allied” individuals who are ready to believe it all, esp if they already beleive that of course…her type would believe that…

  118. 118
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Baud: All politics are identity politics on some level.

  119. 119
    Irony Abounds says:

    I’m just sick and tired of the purity police. Everyone is flawed, we are all human, we all make mistakes, even assholes like Glenn Greenwald. This is an example of why it will be so difficult for progressives to make real progress. Anyone not sufficiently progressive gets eaten alive, and there just aren’t enough “pure” progressives to win much of anything or effect any meaningful change.

  120. 120

    Sorry but slack seems to be given only to Republicans.

  121. 121
    Baud says:

    @celticdragonchick: That’s why I don’t like people who aren’t me.

  122. 122
    jacy says:

    @debit:

    Problem with apologies, is they’re never good enough for some people. They didn’t say it quite right, they should have done this or they should have done that. People start parsing and picking. There’s no way to win. And she might not have remembered what she wrote — hell, I don’t remember half the things I wrote, and I’ll come across something and think to myself, shit, did I really say that? And, as time goes on and our thought processes change, we don’t remember the people we were, and the thing we said or did may be somewhat alien to us. We’re not machines, we’re organic and imperfect and all that we do an are is filtered through our perceptions of ourselves and the perceptions of others. I hate sanctimonious pricks who hold everyone to impossible and ridiculous standards — and the problem is there are FAR more of them on the left than on the right.

  123. 123
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Mary G:

    I not only support Joy, I am suspicious of people who don’t, including some who surprised me. The flap over Chelsea Clinton and Amy Chozick cut down my Twitter following list. Why Chelsea is supposed to be lying about her hair treatment is ridiculous.

    This times 1000

  124. 124
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @opiejeanne:

    What’d I miss? I was watching her warily, not liking her after her nasty words to Omnes and Adam but staying out of her cheery little comments.

    Apparently I missed the whole thing. What happened?

  125. 125
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Baud:

    LOL :D

  126. 126
    HILFY says:

    @Baud: Roger Stone’s helpers? AKA the ratf**ker’s assistants?

  127. 127
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Karen Potter: I like saganaki too!

  128. 128
    opiejeanne says:

    @Baud: I saw that. It’s such a load of BS. The ONLY attempt to use the superdelegates against the will of the voters was made by him and his followers.

  129. 129
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    A well fed revolutionary?

  130. 130
    kd bart says:

    I just hope Johnny Unbeatable never said, wrote or did anything remotely controversial in their past.

  131. 131
    B.B.A. says:

    @Baud: I swear to god, every complaint about “rigging” makes me want to go back to smoke-filled rooms. But with better ventilation this time around.

  132. 132

    @Baud: ugh, he was?

    I should just write more instead of caring about him.

  133. 133
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @celticdragonchick: Possibly. Depends on whether said revolutionary can cook.

  134. 134
    (Temporarily) Temporarily Max McGee says:

    @Baud:

    That’s why I don’t like people who aren’t me.

    And yet when scandal-laden Lord Littlehands has the sort of candor to say this, people still vote for him by the tens of millions. Go figure.

    Baud 2020: Hold My Beer

  135. 135
    kd bart says:

    @Irony Abounds: Purity Test to oblivion

  136. 136
    guachi says:

    Excerpts from the clip.

    0:47 I genuinely do not believe I wrote those hateful things because they are completely alien to me. But I can definitely understand based on things I have tweeted, have written in the past why some people don’t believe me. I’ve not been exempt from being dumb or cruel or hurtful to the very people I want to advocate for. I own that. I get it. And for that I am truly, truly sorry.

    2:41 And I feel like that I should have known better than to ever write or tweet in a way that could make fun of or make light of or make light of that pain and that experience. Even a decade ago when the country was in a very different place but I cannot take any of that back. I can only say that the person I am now is not the person I was then.

    3:16 The reality is I have to own the things I’ve written and tweeted and said.

    I don’t think I’ve left out anything particularly relevant.

    At no point does she actually admit to or own up to her disputed blog posts. Since she doesn’t believe she wrote them then her owning up to the things she’s written doesn’t apply to those blog posts. She didn’t write them!

    What she is sorry for is writing other things that would make people believe she wrote the blog posts she says she didn’t write.

  137. 137
    gene108 says:

    @debit:

    Al Franken. Weird how all those accusations just stopped once he stepped down, isn’t it?

    Not really. Franken was ratfucked. That being said, he was becoming a political liability. If Democrats tried to highlight Republican sexual improprieties, the rejoinder on the tip of everyone’s tongue would be “what about Franken?”

    This goes for the allegations against Roy Moore, too.

  138. 138
    HumboldtBlue says:

    I am a fan of Joy Ann Reid and her interview with Desus and Mero was funny, enlightening and informative, but can we stop pretending that 10 years ago was a century ago? It was 2008, and if you were a raging homophobe or if you simply wrote shit about calling men married to women as closeted gay men as she did to Charlie “Miss” Crist in 2008, that’s an issue 10 years later.

    Yes we all evolve and change and that change is constant (my life has changed dramatically in the past six months alone) but if Joy Ann Reid had been a commenter on this blog in ’08 and typed out anything remotely similar to what she wrote on her blog she would have been torn to shreds. None of you would have put up with that shit. Not a one of you, so I find this “she’s one of us on the side of the angels and we need to back off” a bit confusing.

    From my understanding this comment section is populated by a pretty well-educated group and there are many people who write for a living or who write for personal reasons and that includes me. Hell, I’ve been commenting here since 2006 when TBogg mentioned John and if you go back to 2008, 2004, 2000 or 1998 (when I first started as a sportswriter and first became active online on a daily basis) you won’t find any racist, sexist, homophobic blog posts or comments or facebook posts or any other type media, social media or online or offline platform. That’s because in 2008 (and earlier) it was pretty clear to most of us who share political and social leanings that that sort of hideous bigotry was unwelcome and downright vile.

    Joy Ann Reid has become an extraordinarily important media voice and I hope she keeps keepin’ on, but this isn’t just some teenage ramblings, she was a highly educated adult in 2008 just as she is now. The apologies and accountability are admirable and they are what I expect from folks here and across the party, but don’ trivialize it, gay men and women are still being beaten in the streets and part of the reason for that is that hating on gay folks is still viewed as reasonable by an awful lot of people in this world.

  139. 139
    Baud says:

    @(Temporarily) Temporarily Max McGee: Trump won Iowa after calling them stupid. I’m just building on that.

  140. 140
    Karen Potter says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Now I’m hungry, which is much better than angry; I still can’t wrap my mind around the idea of any man who threatens to rape a woman who defends women who have been raped.

  141. 141
    opiejeanne says:

    @Adam L Silverman: She introduced herself by taking a swipe at Omnes for being a lawyer, and then you for … something, being in the military? Omnes answered her not uncivilly but somewhat in kind, and you just rolled with the punch and talked calmly to her, but it really grated that she chose to enter our fine forum swinging those fists around at people I like for no particular reason. Felt like a troll, wrote the way a native Russian speaks who hasn’t quite mastered all of English and forgets to use “a”, “the” and “my”: best friend came to house, asked to borrow car.

  142. 142
    JWR says:

    @Baud:

    I think it would be useful to have our own wiki of GOP malfeasance. People forget too easily.

    While most certainly not wiki pages, there are a few such posts over at The Great Orange Satan listing various scandals. Here’s one:

    This list of Trump scandals in just one short year makes us miss scandal-free Obama so much

  143. 143
    gene108 says:

    @opiejeanne:

    Barack Obama would not have beaten Hillary Clinton without winning the super delegate vote.

    And damn near all Hillary supporters got behind Obama and weren’t trying to tear the party down over it. The ones that did complain were ignored.

  144. 144
    Karen Potter says:

    @Adam L Silverman: That is only bad part about living alone; no crowds of people to fill with comforting foods. I even found myself missing do meals during Passover season; not Jewish, but one of those groups that keep the same days and food restrictions.

  145. 145
    MazeDancer says:

    Joan Walsh took to Twitter to stand up for Joy a few days ago posting a thread about their long-time professional relationship.

    Joan had followed Joy’s writings and blogging for years before meeting Joy. And had Joy write and cross-post at Salon.

    Joan, and some other editors and writers, said she never saw anything like the homophobic rants that Joy says were hacks in Joy’s work.

    Obviously, none of us ever saw the kinds of homophobic posts she’s now accused of. If we had, we’d have stopped publishing her.

  146. 146
    Baud says:

    @gene108: And a large part of the reason for the unity in 2008 was because of Hillary.

  147. 147
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Karen Potter: I need to eat lunch too.

    There are some real whacked out people out there. A lot of folks don’t realize with Cosby that the reason this prosecution was able to happen is that there was a determined woman, a DA who was willing to take on a local hero, and they still had some time left on the statute of limitations. And all three parts of that equation are important. And they are certainly more important than Cosby being African American.

  148. 148
    Baud says:

    @JWR: A central wiki would be nice though.

  149. 149
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @opiejeanne: I’ve never actually been in the military or claimed to be in the military. I work for and with the military. On term civil service appointments or contracts.

    Now that the disclaimer/disclosure is out of the way: I didn’t even pick up on any of that.

  150. 150
    Kay says:

    Reid aside, I think it is absolutely reasonable for Democratic partisans and voters to worry about Russian interference in the 2018 elections.

    No one should apologize for it. The fact is Clinton was right- there WAS interference in the 2016 election. You didn’t imagine this- it happened. It’s true we don’t know exactly what happened but that’s only because very little has been released or reported. In some ways the lack of information makes it MORE reasonable to be concerned.

    So don’t apologize. The people who should be apologizing are the people who dismissed it. They were wrong.

    I would bet fucking money it’ll happen again. Why wouldn’t it? It was hugely successful and we all know the Trump Administration isn’t doing jack shit about it because they deny it happened. You don’t have some duty to personally bring about criminal convictions before you can worry about about Russian interference. You’re allowed. Why? Because it happened.

  151. 151

    @HumboldtBlue: we have front-pagers here (not to mention commenters) who say, or until recently liked to say, homophobic-y stuff about Andrew Sullivan and Lindsey Graham. We even had IIRC a long discussion on one thread about whether the term ‘drama queen’ was okay. People are still unlearning their old habits when it comes to insults and other verbal tics they picked up long ago that only relatively recently became widely known as not okay.

    Now, it says something if your go-to response for “how can I insult Charlie Crist” is a gay joke, but I don’t think it says enough to drum you out of the movement or get you fired.

  152. 152
    Doug R says:

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner): @guachi:
    Concern trolls are very concerned.

  153. 153
    opiejeanne says:

    @opiejeanne: And whether Russian is her first language is immaterial. I thought she might be because of where she mentioned she lived, in converted AFB McClellan housing near Sacramento. This area had a significant number of Russian emigres who settled there.

  154. 154
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Is drama queen ok? I really find it useful.

  155. 155
    J R in WV says:

    Rifles are too big to store in the Kitchen, although my grandma kept a .22 rifle in her pantry, and the .32 Colt in the bathroom closet.

    I think Al Franken got back-stabbed because he was far and away the most effective senator in the 100-member body. A better questioner at hearings than anyone else, a better negotiator than most, a better speaker. I looked over those pictures, it was from his career as a clown, and anyone who thought it was aggressive or harassing was a RWNJ.

    People do take advantage of competitors’ missteps to take them down, in business, academia, show biz, on church boards and most especially in politics. The Democratic politicians who took a position against Franken did so because he was a better politician, and they were insecure when working with Franken, thinking they didn’t look good when compared to him.

    That’s my take on Franken.

    Now similar rat-fucking is happening again. Another attack on an effective and honest reporter of political news. Someone willing to call a RWNJ crazy on the air, because they are crazy, look at their actions in office and in the political sphere. What a surprise!!! Never against a right-wing politician, even though they are resigning in record numbers because of terrible actions in their private and public lives. Why is that?

    I don’t know much, anything really, about Joy-Ann Reid. Have never seen her show, don’t get cable, if I did I wouldn’t watch MSNBC because I don’t trust NBC either. Talking head TV doesn’t do it for me, the facts and words are too slow compared to my reading speed. I used to be able to watch TV AND read without losing track of either line of thought, but those days are over for me.

    But you all here have educated me about her work. I have read about her work in news stories as well. She seems like a good reporter to me. I’ve known hundreds of reporters, people who have received Pulitzers have had dinner at our house. Some of them are all good thru-and-thru, and others are better reporters than they are people.

    Trolls, now, that’s a different subject. Thanks to cleek, Alain and Major major major major we don’t have to see comments written by trolls any more. We see kinda witty sayings about pie. So much better than rat-fucking nonsense about people working hard to make the world a better place!

    Someone should put some good recipes in that file of pie filter sayings, just saying. I could and would contribute some old family recipes that everyone should have a chance to try. Peach Kuchen !!! Best food stuff you have ever had in your mouth! Really!

    Maple-Pecan pie. With vanilla ice cream!!! Almost as good as peach kuchen!

  156. 156

    @gene108:

    Barack Obama would not have beaten Hillary Clinton without winning the super delegate vote.

    I mean… the opposite is also true, because it was close and there were a lot of supers.

    They met like adults in Denver to hammer out a Florida/Michigan compromise that let everybody retain their dignity, and then Hillary gave her awesome convention speech, it was great and as it should have gone.

  157. 157
    opiejeanne says:

    @Adam L Silverman: It was her first post to you, but she’d already jumped on Omnes by then so that may have colored how I saw what she wrote to you.

  158. 158
    HumboldtBlue says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I don’t either, and I fully support Reid and as I said, her accountability and her apology I admire, but I find it odd that the first instinct here was to circle the wagons with a shrug. Reid has owned up (and she may have been hacked, I doubt it, but it’s possible those blog posts were altered recently) and I have the utmost respect for her for doing so, I just find the rush to brush it off head-scratching.

    A big part of that head-scratching is because I have enormous respect for the vast majority of folks who comment here and it’s easy to forget the real, flawed human beings behind pseudonyms.

  159. 159
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @opiejeanne:

    wrote the way a native Russian speaks who hasn’t quite mastered all of English

    Just one point, and I’m using what you wrote to make it, but it isn’t directed at you, but something for us all to keep in mind. We are all on edge right now because of Putin’s use of Russian intelligence and organized crime and his crony oligarchs that are involved in both what was specifically done during the 2016 election and the ongoing active measures, cyberwarfare, and unconventional warfare campaigns against the US and its EU allies and partners, as well as others like the Ukrainians. But we have to be on guard against taking our concerns, and I would argue legitimate anger, over what Putin has directed his government and the organized crime guys he protects as the krysha, and separating them from Russians in general.

    Yes we should be on guard for the bots and the trolls. But we need to make sure a sufficient level of paranoia doesn’t (all too) easily turn into bigotry.

    Rant off. We now return you to your regularly scheduled commenting.

  160. 160
    (Temporarily) Temporarily Max McGee says:

    @HumboldtBlue:

    In 2011, the comments sections of any prog-o-spheric post related to Ann Coulter was full- FULL- of wisecracks about her being trans. The only people calling out the offenders were either trans and/or site mods. I know this because I got to try to clean all that shit up as one of the latter.

    Remember, DADT wasn’t repealed until September 2011, and the Obergfell decision was handed down at the end of June 2015. Somewhere in the midst of that was Chelsea Manning, and she took a beating over the way she identified for a long fucking time, and, iirc, that included people commenting here, too.

    Should they have known better? I guess- but then people should have known better for as long as there have been people.

  161. 161
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Karen Potter: I understand.

    Though no one should pine for Passover food.

  162. 162
    opiejeanne says:

    @Kay: The hackers have been moved into a bigger, nicer building with better security,

    http://www.philly.com/philly/c.....3Dsharebar

  163. 163
    Jeff says:

    @Thoughtful David: My take as well – Russians. Muddy the water. Everybody does it.

  164. 164
    Baud says:

    @HumboldtBlue: I’m the opposite. I find the rush to condemn before facts are in to be head scratching. Perhaps the two attitudes reinforce each other.

  165. 165

    @Baud: under discussion was the asymmetrical application of gendered insults like drama queen, getting your panties in a bunch, etc. *I* say drama queen but I can also understand why some might think it’s an issue. If I were a hetero front pager at a top 10k blog I might want to be aware of the issue though.

    @(Temporarily) Temporarily Max McGee: I remember taking shit here for standing up for Manning’s gender identity. Would have been in quite recent years.

  166. 166
    Tazj says:

    @Irony Abounds: Yes. I don’t want to dismiss anyone who was offended by what she wrote and apologized for, but some of the people leading the charge against her like Greenwald, Walter Bragman, and David Sirota aren’t genuinely interested in journalistic integrity. They’re seizing an opportunity to drag someone who hasn’t agreed with their Brogressive politics.

  167. 167
    NotMax says:

    @Baud

    As long as it is pronounced drahma and not draama.

    ;)

  168. 168
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @opiejeanne: Okay. No worries.

  169. 169
    JWR says:

    @Baud:

    @JWR: A central wiki would be nice though.

    Agreed. But til then…

  170. 170
  171. 171
    Mandalay says:

    @HumboldtBlue:

    None of you would have put up with that shit.

    You have to be kidding! While he was still prominent Andrew Sullivan was pilloried here for his sexuality. And folks here still attack Lindsey Graham for being effeminate and unmanly. Not to mention the white hoods that some folks here donned when BLM started giving Clinton a hard time, or Elon and Angry Black Lady ruffled their nice white feathers.

    ETA Post #160 reminds me that Ann Coulter has also been attacked here for her “manly” qualities.

  172. 172

    @HumboldtBlue:

    I find it odd that the first instinct here was to circle the wagons with a shrug

    I find it both disappointing and unsurprising, for we are humans after all.

    it’s possible those blog posts were altered recently

    Not really, that isn’t how the internet archive works. They were snapshotted at many points over the years.

  173. 173
    EBT says:

    Joy feels no different than every other liberal news personality at the time. The only reason she is the only one being taken to task is because she is a black woman. That said all the white men who said the same shit also need to be taken to task.

  174. 174
    Doug R says:

    @guachi: So you share her beautifully written mean culpa and then you deliberately twist your panties into a tighter bunch? You’re just trolling for trolling’s sake.

  175. 175
    Kay says:

    The Russian oligarch and Russian lawyer who were key players in the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting reached out to Trump’s team after Donald Trump was elected President to try to lobby on the Russian sanctions they sought to overturn, according to Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee.

    How dare you worry about Russian interference in the 2018 election. That’s just crazy.

    There must be criminal convictions for collusion first, because all of a sudden the entire public must meet a “beyond a reasonable doubt” legal standard before worrying or wondering or watching for is permissible.

  176. 176

    @J R in WV: years ago, my grandpa found a beautiful old .22 revolver (which has an incredibly amazing story behind it but that’s for another time) on the farm. Cleaned it up, got it working again. I visited shortly after for a week or so and we went and shot it a few times. When my mom swung by for a couple days to pick me up I wanted to show her! But we were out of ammo. So there was this scene with me (I was like thirteen) excitedly explaining the story to my mom while my grandma lovingly digs through the junk drawers in the kitchen looking for .22 shells.

    But I don’t think the gun was actually in the kitchen at the time.

  177. 177
    HumboldtBlue says:

    @Baud:

    The only rush to condemn has been by the same old right wing fuckbags who would just make shit up if they had to. From my perspective people gave Reid ample time to address the issue, it didn’t just arise yesterday, hell, she was suspended for a week, and I haven’t read much condemnation here today as opposed to more just some shrugs and let’s move on attitudes. I’m all for that but c’mon, she wasn’t being tongue-in-cheek when she wrote, “most straight people cringe at the sight of two men kissing” or “adult gay men tend to be attracted to very young, post-pubescent types.”

    Again, I leave plenty of room for hacking, but this wasn’t rushed, it’s percolated for more than a week which in the end led to her apology.

  178. 178
    Ruckus says:

    @Drunkenhausfrau:
    Or a Stone protégé?

  179. 179
    Baud says:

    @HumboldtBlue: I disagree. The pitchforks were out for her quite quickly.

  180. 180
    opiejeanne says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yes, I recognized that and tried to modify my post to point out that whether she’s a Russian speaker or not has nothing to do with the matter of whether she’s a troll (jury still out). I am having to fight this tendency to react like this to Russians in our midst, and it’s not just because of the election. My area suddenly seems to have a lot of scammers who happen to be Russian, A Lot of them.

  181. 181
    rikyrah says:

    @HumboldtBlue:
    There are people who read her at that time, and don’t believe that she wrote it. I believe that she was attacked. Period .
    Either accept a sincere apology or don’t.

  182. 182

    @HumboldtBlue:

    I just find the rush to brush it off head-scratching.

    Ratfucking smear jobs have become a standard conservative technique. At this point, surprise accusations against any strongly liberal figure are met with automatic skepticism. ‘Said some bad things years ago that she obviously does not support now’ is a low enough offense that you’ll get even further defensiveness.

  183. 183
    Jay S says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Karen is probably better with knives.

  184. 184

    @opiejeanne: in Neal Stephenson’s Seveneves, which is 2/3 of a good book, there’s a Russian character who knows perfectly well where to put English particles but leaves them out just to make people uncomfortable. I loved that detail.

  185. 185
    rikyrah says:

    @HumboldtBlue:
    John Cole was a full on right winger.
    Is he today?
    No.
    Do I hold his past against him?
    No.
    Like I said before,
    Either accept a sincere apology or don’t.

  186. 186
    HumboldtBlue says:

    @rikyrah:

    I was pretty clear in comments that not only did I accept her apology (not that she needed to apologize to me) but that I admire her for doing so because she’s an honorable person and that’s what decent, honorable people do when they own up to mistakes, even ugly ones.

  187. 187
    Kay says:

    @EBT:

    IMO, there’s a weird “punishing” impulse on the Left that makes me wary. Lotta calling for people’s heads and code violations. It’s oddly… prosecutorial. I wish someone smarter than me would see this because I don’t know how to describe it, where it fits in, what it’s about, but it always makes me a little queasy.

  188. 188
    Karen Potter says:

    @J R in WV: I no longer have a pantry, come to think of it don’t even have enough room for all the years worth of tools that are sitting upstairs in bins. I do have my knives where I can get to them easily.
    I know I can’t read a book and watch tv any longer; 1) tv hasn’t been plugged in since moved here in Oct 14, 2) I need the closed caption since hearing aides didn’t work.

  189. 189
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Doug R: Do you mind if I steal your inadvertent typo?

    mean culpa

    As in a mean culpa is an angry and overly aggressive apology.

  190. 190
    Kathleen says:

    @Aimai: My impression that this effort was coming more from “The Left”, who has made the targeting of prominent, strong, truth telling Women of Color a cottage industry.

  191. 191

    @EBT: 92% agree with you, margin of error 8%.

  192. 192
    Ruckus says:

    @lamh36:
    This.
    I’ve known some black gay folks and they understand this better than almost anyone. Ten yrs ago is a rather long time in LGBT rights time.

  193. 193
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @opiejeanne: I saw the follow up after my comment. Again, it was not specifically directed at you. I have to make sure I don’t do the same thing.

  194. 194
    Karen Potter says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I craved Matzo’s of all things, and when I was forced to eat them hated it.

  195. 195
    Mandalay says:

    @EBT:

    Joy feels no different than every other liberal news personality at the time. The only reason she is the only one being taken to task is because she is a black woman.

    You win the prize for that comment.

  196. 196
    opiejeanne says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Ha! That’s a funny thing to do, if not a mildly sinister reason.

  197. 197
    Adam L Silverman says:

    America 2018 encapsulated in a tweet:

  198. 198
    (Temporarily) Temporarily Max McGee says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Yeah, it’s amazing how time flies, and you don’t realize it until you stop and think about it. The same-sex marriage thing sort of started back in, what, the late ’90s, with civil unions in Vermont? My ex and her s.o. did that before they moved back to Michigan in ’03. Sometimes I think, ‘Wow, that thing went on forever!*”

    But it really didn’t. There wasn’t much movement except for MA passing their same-sex marriage law in ’04, followed by a few municipalities issuing licenses, but then it was red and purple state backlash. The Iowa court decision in ’09 was the first since the Hawaiian ruling in the ’90s (that didn’t result in much). But it was really somewhere in that 4-year span from 2011 to 2015, when more states recognized same-sex marriage, and more court decisions supported it that the public really started reversing itself.

    *As someone who’s straight, I think I’m the rare one who felt it took so long, but that’s because I’m rare in that I knew someone who’d done the civil union thing in the way, wayback times.

  199. 199
    Kathleen says:

    @Baud: Baud, I think it does matter. We have to know who are enemies are.

  200. 200
    opiejeanne says:

    @Adam L Silverman: No worries, and I did not feel targeted by that very mild and rational “rant.”

  201. 201

    @Adam L Silverman: ugh, is Aimless Inflatable Duck already pandering for 2020?

  202. 202
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Karen Potter: It is not particularly tasty.

  203. 203

    @Adam L Silverman: I always liked it as a tuna salad delivery vehicle with a little cheese.

  204. 204
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @(Temporarily) Temporarily Max McGee: I have a feeling that legalizing cannabis is going to go the same way. Once the center of the logjam breaks, it’ll move very, very quickly.

  205. 205
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: If it shows up this summer to see the butter cow, then we’ll know for sure.

  206. 206
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Is there nothing you won’t appropriate?//

  207. 207
    opiejeanne says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I don’t think I’ve ever had matzoh. I always thought they were a lot like saltine crackers so never sought them out.

    Yes, I grew up Little Miss White Bread, even if the bread was always home baked.

  208. 208
    The Thin Black Dukw says:

    Has GG apologized for his “Obama raping a nun” comment? Yeah, I thought so.

  209. 209
    Karen Potter says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I know that, which is why hated them for years; but when I could find them here? then I started craving them.

  210. 210
    Harry says:

    That is not an apology.

    “I didn’t do it, but if you think I did, I’m sorry.”

    She should be fired immediately for lying. And some of her attacks were especially dangerous, as when she goes on about gay men being pedophiles.

    If you want to forgive Joy Ann Reid, then you have to forgive Kevin Williamson.

  211. 211
    BCHS Class of 1980 says:

    @Mr Stagger Lee: Yeah, that was a not-so-wonderful time for relations between the AA and the LGBTQ communities. Egged on of course by people who have less than no interest in the well-being of either community. And yes, I include every jackal’s favorite resident of Brazil among the eggers.

  212. 212
    Karen Potter says:

    I have been reading about “Lynching Memorial” seems that is upsetting the “white people”

  213. 213
    bemused says:

    Andy Lassner doesn’t know if Reid is telling the truth or not.
    “I grew up being taught that being gay was wrong.
    I was told people chose to be gay.
    I used gay slurs with my friends.
    And then I learned the truth.
    I evolved.
    I changed.
    Now I produce Ellen”.

  214. 214
    The Thin Black Dukw says:

    Why am I in moderation?

  215. 215

    @Adam L Silverman: in all seriousness I do worry about such things and work to be as respectful as I can in my writing.

  216. 216
    Jane2 says:

    @Mary G: I added “Amy Choznick” to the key words I never want to see again on my Twitter timeline. As for Joy Ann Reid, there’s a big smelly rat somewhere, and it isn’t her.

  217. 217
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @opiejeanne: They are not like saltines at all. Think wallboard.

  218. 218
    jacy says:

    @J R in WV:
    My mom has her .22 rifle in my laundry room.

  219. 219
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @opiejeanne: @Karen Potter: The only edible matzoh is Sephardic or Mizrahi (Jews of Arab/Middle Eastern descent) matzoh. It is just freshly made pita bread. Flour, water, salt. Quickly mixed and kneaded, the rolled flat and cooked immediately. Soft, tasty, and edible.

  220. 220
    BCHS Class of 1980 says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: Especially knowing that there is a definite Lack of good sense in the suites upstairs.

  221. 221
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: You’re a good man, M^4.

  222. 222
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I’m just teasing.

  223. 223
    Aleta says:

    One final and important point: does anyone actually want to be judged on something they wrote ten years ago? Or twenty? Or five? Or, in some cases, one? When they’ve clearly based on recent words and deeds changed their positions?

    Not about Joy’s situation, but in general:
    An important piece is the acknowledgement that something one wrote or said was in error. Or out of ignorance, prejudice or young ego. Newspapers have a social responsibility to “correct the record,” and so do professionals. Writers, researchers, scientists, bloggers. Done for both honesty and to maintain the standard of differentiating fact vs error.

    Those who believe their work matters do it to acknowledge that harm may have come to people who read or were subjected to their words, even long ago. Scientists do it out of recognition that others’ work will be built on theirs; and also to maintain their reputation. Self-correction is also one of the reasons JGCole is respected as a writer/good guy. Right now my partner is in complete agony after he found a mistake in a presentation given a few years ago. Even though the final paper hasn’t been written, he has to retract and correct the part that was presented. And how often do doctors admit mistakes, correct their assessments, even though it would help their patients to know?

    I think it’s hard to feel the fear and overcome the self-protection, but correcting one’s past words does matter.

  224. 224
    jacy says:

    @rikyrah:

    Exactly. I really don’t care whether she wrote it or not — it’s what she’s doing now that I care about. And she apologized, people can accept it or not. They’re not accepting it at face value says a helluva lot more about them than it does about her.

  225. 225
    Baud says:

    @Kay: Feeling of empowerment IMHO.

  226. 226
    patrick II says:

    During Trump’s Immigration law oral arguments before the Supreme court Justice John Roberts asked “whether there is a statute of limitations on campaign promises”, referring to Trumps campaign promise on a ban of Muslim immigration. Roberts implies his campaign promises are no longer relevant two years later. My answer to that (to myself until now) is that there is no statute of limitations on statements like that, particularly when there are dozens if not hundreds of other Trump statements before and after the election that make his racist motives clear.
    The (metaphorical) statute would run out however, as soon as he had repeatedly refuted those statement with other newer statements and followed those words with actions. He has done neither.
    So, I think the same rule applies with Joy Reid. I don’t believe she said those things ten years ago, but even if she did she has since made many newer statements and actions that show a very sophisticated and heartfelt display of tolerance for those less fortunate or different from herself. Except for liars. From the evidence I have seen when people come on her show and lie, she has little tolerance for liars.
    She is a fine person and for her sake as well as ours, I wish her well.

  227. 227
  228. 228
    EBT says:

    @Mandalay: Homophobia was never ok, and acting like it was is really homophobic (NOT ACCUSING YOU of homophobia)

  229. 229
    Ruckus says:

    @Irony Abounds:

    and there just aren’t enough “pure” progressives to win much of anything or effect any meaningful change.

    It’s rare to find pure of almost anything and humans are one of the least pure things in the universe. We are made up of things that have been intermingled for eons, with other imperfect sources, we are raised by things that were intermingled with other imperfect sources, imperfectly, and progressives are no different in that. So “pure” progressives? Yeah those don’t exist. If one is looking for purity, go to a lab and good luck, but finding a pure anything in politics is not going to happen.

  230. 230
    opiejeanne says:

    @BCHS Class of 1980: Don’t forget that Prop 187 in California was funded by The Mormon church, mainly by people from Utah. Made me so damned mad.

  231. 231
    different-church-lady says:

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner):

    It seems to me we have a problem accepting when our people fuck up.

    Because we get what in return for it?

  232. 232
    Chyron HR says:

    @HumboldtBlue:

    “most straight people cringe at the sight of two men kissing”

    Wait, wait, wait. You’re mad that she said homophobia exists?

  233. 233
    opiejeanne says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Ok, Then kin to hardtack? I am writing a story set during the Civil War and have had to research lots of odd stuff that I didn’t know about., Reading about hardtack and how to eat it was an education that I hope I never have to put to use.

  234. 234

    @Ruckus: even I’m only 97% pure sexiness.

  235. 235
    efgoldman says:

    @opiejeanne:

    Who are you again?

    shinobi?

  236. 236
    Jay S says:

    @Adam L Silverman: sounds like an average apology to me.ETA A mean apology that is.

  237. 237
    Ruckus says:

    @guachi:
    Damn, I’m reminded why I used to have you pied. You are an insufferable prick.
    Bye.

  238. 238
    lamh36 says:

    @leahmcelrath
    Follow Follow @leahmcelrath
    More
    Now that my friend @JoyAnnReid has apologized, my friend @ggreenwald is now pretending denial of authorship and hacking claims by Joy is now and was always “the *only* issue” and asserts her “anti-LGBT bigotry” was “never the issue.”

    And, unfortunately, Glenn is lying.

    Thread.

    @leahmcelrath
    39m39 minutes ago
    More
    I hate bringing this up because I’m going to be attacked by my friend Glenn’s troll army for doing so, but it’s important.

    It’s important because @ggreenwald is claiming if a journalist is found to have been untruthful once, they are forever untrustworthy.

    So his lying matters.
    https://twitter.com/leahmcelrath/status/990312611068698624

  239. 239

    @opiejeanne: I’ve baked hardtack and you can buy Matzah at the grocery—research!

  240. 240
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    As the howling monkeys of #metoo and the asshole brigade of Greenwald go chasing down every centerleft voice, look at who is left standing.

  241. 241
    BCHS Class of 1980 says:

    @gene108: The picture really really hurt; without that, I think the situation was tough but survivable.

  242. 242
    germy says:

    An alliance:

    One of these guys is laying down some deep journalism ethics grooves right now. pic.twitter.com/oMQQvP7tFt— Schooley (@Rschooley) April 28, 2018

  243. 243
    lamh36 says:

    @lamh36:

    A few days ago when I called out @ggreenwald about his *disproportionate* focus on @JoyAnnReid, he attacked me.

    Fair enough.

    But it’s HOW he attacked me that matters.

    He called me “straight,” mocked my self-identity, and accused me of “defending heinous anti-LGBT bigotry.”

    @leahmcelrath
    33m33 minutes ago
    More
    In addition, @ggreenwald pushed out the idea @JoyAnnReid is homophobic and transphobic as recently as December of 2017:https://twitter.com/leahmcelrath/status/990315293057613824

  244. 244
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    Can we take a fresh look at Greenwald and white supremacy given his Putinism and involvement with Assange, Snowjob and Manning?

  245. 245
    lamh36 says:

    @lamh36:

    @leahmcelrath
    30m30 minutes ago
    More
    Now, after I went through the ridiculous exercise of presenting my bona fides to @ggreenwald as an ACTUAL lesbian who has fucked women, married a woman, had a child within the context of a same-sex headed family, and been a pro-LGBTQ rights activist for decades, he apologized:

    @leahmcelrath
    29m29 minutes ago
    More
    But you’ll note that, even in his apology to me, he continues to focus on alleging I am treating “anti-LGBT bigotry” as a “minor, annoying sideshow” in my willingness to forgive @JoyAnnReid and imagine that she, like many, has evolved on her understanding of LGBTQ issues.
    https://twitter.com/leahmcelrath/status/990316058098757632

  246. 246
    Mary G says:

    I don’t like her, but Maggie Haberman has been giving Brad Parscale the business on Twitter, and it’s great.

    There is no cohesive political core around Trump. And his newly-minted campaign manager, per other advisers, tends to tell Trump his poll numbers are higher than ever. https://t.co/gO2QxE6buO— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) April 28, 2018

    His political team is actually the most cohesive it has been since the start. It is just this politics team doesn’t talk to you or leak. You only get leaks from those outside the team. https://t.co/xrrT8kilSN— Brad Parscale (@parscale) April 28, 2018

    I say this with respect, sir – you have no idea who we are talking to. https://t.co/LP8tySJn0b— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) April 28, 2018

    There’s more, but it’s not threaded, but she is owning him.

  247. 247
    JPL says:

    I haven’t read the comments yet, but I think Joy was sincere and I hope that she can weather the storm. President Obama evolved over time on gay marriage, and because of that the government argued for gay marriage. It is now the law of the land.

  248. 248
    lamh36 says:

    @lamh36:

    @leahmcelrath
    26m26 minutes ago
    More
    Here’s the point:

    In his effort to defend HIMSELF from his own history of a misguided argument and angle of attack, @ggreenwald has lied.

    He has moved the goal posts. Completely. And he is now asserting that the “*only*” issue was @JoyAnnReid’s dishonesty in defending HERSELF.

    @leahmcelrath
    23m23 minutes ago
    More
    See how that works? Or, rather, how that doesn’t work?

    You can’t say someone is forever untrustworthy for being dishonest when defending themselves IF YOU ARE BEING DISHONEST DEFENDING YOURSELF.

    Unless you are declaring that you too are forever untrustworthy now.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    @leahmcelrath
    16m16 minutes ago
    More
    Given @ggreenwald’s own logic and behavior, BOTH he AND @JoyAnnReid are capable of being less than honest when defending themselves and therefore are never again to be trusted. Is that what you meant to say, Glenn?

    Because, if not, you owe @JoyAnnReid and many others an apology.

  249. 249
    lamh36 says:

    @lamh36:

    Leah McElrath

    @leahmcelrath
    Follow Follow @leahmcelrath
    More
    In addition, @ggreenwald, if you really do feel that an untruth is something unforgivable and a fireable offense (which I agree it can be depending on the lie), perhaps you should consider ceasing to appear on Tucker Carlson’s show and start demanding his firing from Fox. Thanks.

    3:07 PM – 28 Apr 2018

  250. 250
    opiejeanne says:

    @Major Major Major Major: i only needed a description of what the soldiers were fed in the Union army when they were heading to battle. If I baked my own I’d seek out something better than what they were fed, so I found multiple descriptions of how it held up in all kinds of weather, mold, weevils, etc., and how to eat the stuff. One method was to soak it in their coffee to soften it enough to eat, and they came to view the uninvited passengers as part of the meal.

  251. 251
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    @Karen Potter: Those white people need to get over it, like Germans who finally had to acknowledge the Holocaust and have holocaust museums. Sorry your ancestors were shit, but everybody has miscreants in their family tree, known and unknown.

    About internet hacking, people tend to forget how tinker-toy like the internet of the early 2000’s was. Brute force hacking and sites that had offensive things written all over it was not uncommon. And has the Internet Archive clarified its security policy and assured us that somebody didn’t break in and upload something?

  252. 252
  253. 253
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    That is basically what you said the other day. As you have on other occasions.
    It’s why when people find out I was in the navy during Vietnam, the first thing I say is that I never saw combat, the closest I ever got to Vietnam was less than 50 miles off the coast of Long Beach. I may have been closer going the other direction. I have an ex Marine buddy, landed in Chu Lai on January 30, 1968, never fired the loaded M16 he carried everywhere, who to this day says he was never in combat.
    You, he and I never had the experiences that other people might credit us with, and we don’t want there to be any mistaking that.

  254. 254

    @opiejeanne: yep, the weevils were an important source of protein.

    I just know there was a poem about this but I can’t find it with brief search.

  255. 255
    Mary G says:

    @lamh36: GG is one of the guys who hasn’t gotten the memo yet that women don’t take patronizing shit lying down anymore, and I am here for his education.

  256. 256

    I just listened to the discussion on Joy Reid’s show. I came away thinking about how important it is to keep trying to be a better person. I need to be conscious of the moments when I feel prejudices I maybe took for granted. Prison rape jokes are a good example. I like that they get called out here.

  257. 257

    @CarolDuhart2:

    And has the Internet Archive clarified its security policy and assured us that somebody didn’t break in and upload something?

    Yes, I read it two days ago. Don’t have the link handy, just heading out the door. ETA and keep in mind the same posts are archived elsewhere as well

  258. 258
    opiejeanne says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thank you! I have made something similar, from Julia Child’s book, Baking With Julia. I baked almost every recipe in that book after I got it for Christmas, and wore out my stand mixer. Burned up the motor kneading one of the tougher doughs. (I wrote “tougher dougs”, lol). I can’t remember if it was the Fougasse or one of the Na’an recipes that this reminds me of.

  259. 259
    opiejeanne says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I saw that poem when I was doing the research. I have it marked in my research papers.

  260. 260
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: Yep. I was deployed in Iraq. I did spend about 50% of my working time there working outside the wire – moving to and from engagements, meetings, humanitarian assistance and medical ops, etc. I never had to draw my weapon other than to charge it leaving the base or clear it coming back on. And the only fire I ever came under was indirect incoming rocket fire that was just to whom it may concern directed at the bases I was at at the time it happened. And even that was rare.

  261. 261
    Karen Potter says:

    @(Temporarily) Temporarily Max McGee: Dad had best friend that “married” his lover back in early 70’s; we went to the commitment ceremony, since it was San Francisco area they found a local coven to officiate. I don’t remember any other partners/couples that did that; but I do remember Buffalo showing off his “wedding ring” to his long time customers at diner.

  262. 262
    opiejeanne says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Then there’s this terrible groaner of a joke/pun:

    https://youtu.be/e4PzpxOj5Cc

  263. 263
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    100%
    I follow a Russian on Y-Tube for his work posts. I find them entertaining. (OK, I’m weird. I know it, let’s move on) He’s moved to Canada and taken on Canadian citizenship but he speaks fluent Russian and damn good english. I’ve known a few other Russians over the decades and some were great, some were not so much, pretty much like people from every country, race, way of life. All of them came for a better life. Most of them think they found one and are glad they are here. And don’t want to turn this into anything like where they came from.

  264. 264
    Karen Potter says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I have had that, and agree is the only edible one; but not what I was craving. No can’t be pregnant! lack plumbing.

  265. 265
    patrick II says:

    @Karen Potter:

    I think that may be on purpose.

  266. 266

    @opiejeanne: always amazes me how much people here know.

  267. 267
    opiejeanne says:

    @Ruckus: The ones in the McClellan AFB converted housing were credited with swinging that district to red, but that was about 12 years ago and I’m not sure how accurate that sentiment was.
    I have heard some of our locals talk about Putin admiringly because he is seen as strong. It’s hard to shake off old habits even when you see what’s wrong with them.

  268. 268
    Ruckus says:

    @Mary G:
    You made me laugh with that one hard enough that I almost choked.
    Thank You!
    Yes GG is a fucking throwback idiot. If he was so worried about the issues important to the US maybe he should come back and work on getting things changed, rather than squatting in his large home in South America. Or he could just shut his fucking pie hole. Just a thought. Of course there is the thought that he is working on change, he’s just on the wrong side.

  269. 269
    Karen Potter says:

    @CarolDuhart2: I agree, Great grandma would get angry every March 17th, she hated all forms of Christianity. Which was how her family ended up in wilderness in mid west living peacefully with the local tribes until civilization reared it’s ugly head.

  270. 270
    opiejeanne says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Me too. I know so very little and most of what I do know is in odd little clumps of seemingly useless knowledge. I am in awe of the experts here, people like Adam and all of the lawyers and other professionals like Suzanne the architect, and then there’s EF Goldman who seems to know quite a bit about everything.

  271. 271
    Redshift says:

    I thought it was a good apology. Given her very good work nowadays, and her admission of having had some terrible views in the past, I can forgive her not quite bring able to accept that the worst was actually who she was then, of she can’t remember writing it. (It also makes me wonder if there’s an unnamed co-blogger or editor who she doesn’t want to throw under the bus without knowing for sure which of them wrote those parts.)

    But more importantly, it helps answer something that has been rolling around in the back of my mind through #MeToo and other recent events, which is, for various levels of offense, what response is warranted. There have been numerous media pieces insisting that this calling out bad behavior are conflating every level with the worst, and I don’t think that’s true. (In more cases, media figures have tried to conflate every level with the least, to try to excuse their friends.)

    But at least for this level of offense, I think a real and sincere apology coupled with good current behavior should be enough. We shouldn’t require a perfect apology, or a detailed confession to everything one is accused of, as long as it’s an actual apology with a commitment to be better.

  272. 272
    MomSense says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Can we also look at his Long association with the Koch brothers and the Cato Institute? Since his beef with Joy has shifted to faulting her for lying about what she wrote in the last, I seem to recall he wrote that he gave George W the benefit of the doubt and then years later pretended he never did. When he was presented with photos of the text from a page in his own darn book he directed some vile stuff at Imani Gandy.

    He’s also pushing how principled Jill Stein is for refusing to fully comply with the Senate Intelligence Committee’s investigation.

    Russia and alt left and right Americans (plus some known rat Fucking operatives) are going to do everything they can to divide the left. Be ready. This is going to get worse. They want to depress the vote for Democrats. They will push 3rd Party nominees to divide our vote. We cannot fall for this again because we are too far along in our constitutional crisis to be diverted from our main purpose. Elect Democrats who will hold the trump administration accountable. We need real hearings. We need to stop the hellosh takeover of our judiciary. The active measures are going to get worse. Keep top eye open.

  273. 273
    Karen Potter says:

    @patrick II: What to make me question my sanity?

  274. 274
    B.B.A. says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    the howling monkeys of #metoo

    I resemble that remark.

  275. 275
    Ruckus says:

    @opiejeanne:
    On Nov 9, 2016 one fellow at work was congratulating everyone, everyone but me, about the election and how great it was. (I probably would have punched him out.) But he’s a fucking idiot. But not so much of one that he at least now tries to avoid me whenever possible and never says anything to me unless it’s about work. I’m not sure but he may be having regrets. I fucking hope so.
    Maybe some of the fucking idiots are learning. The rest are incapable of the process. They are drumpf without the 30 yr old worn out plane and the gold spray painted crap in their homes.

  276. 276
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @The Thin Black Dukw: Typo in your nym. You’ve replaced the e at the end of Duke with a w.

  277. 277
    lamh36 says:

    @Redshift: Someone asked the elsewhere why she couldn’t “remember” writing it, and I also pondered if maybe she didn’t write all post, but it was her name in the byline…so maybe she didn’t write it but did approve it?

    Either way, I didn’t care either way, because as many have already said…her current actions and beviours in the 8 years I’ve known of her has been as an advocate and supporter of those rights….hell she was even being given an award from a gay rigths org, that was rescinded when this news came out…another reason why I call BS on saying it’s bout the “hacking” response as opposed to those who were pushing it at the exact moment she was getting this award

  278. 278

    I will say that, seeing the glee my BernieBro friends were sharing this with, I totally grok the impulse to assume it’s bullshit and circle the wagons.

  279. 279
    (Temporarily) Temporarily Max McGee says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    It seems like in the end, after years, decades, centuries of voices calling for change, the end game is usually always hard and fast. Look at slavery in these borders, where there were slave revolts or conspiracies that were put down in the Americas dating back to the first half of the 16th Century. In the 19th Century there’s the successful abolition movement in the UK, but here we had, following a few lesser known uprising’s, Denmark Vesey’s “conspiracy” found out in 1822, Nat turner’s Rebellion in 1831, the Amistad case in 1839, the Creole case (slave rebellion aboard a slave ship that cruised from one southern US port to another, transporting slaves, the slave revolt in the Cherokee Nation in 1842, and John Brown’s Raid in 1859. The US abolition movement existed earlier, but it really blossomed in the 1830s.

    Yet with all of that history, most people just think of the last four or five years, from Lincoln’s election to the passage of the 13th Amendment. Most American’s think that it might have been a bloody resolution, but at least it was short. But it wasn’t short to people like William Lloyd Garrison, Nat Turner and, on the other side, the Fire-Eaters.

    Same can be said about the labor movement, progressivism and women’s rights, which a lot of us are still fighting for. Something like the ERA will pass someday soon, and there will be people who take credit for those last few years without even thinking about how the Women’s Suffrage movement began in the 1830’s, that all women 21 or older could cast a vote in a federal election in 1920, or that the ERA passed through Congress in the 1970s. Someone on the steps of the SCOTUS will say, “remember how bad it was for us in 2025, but now, in 2030, were are legally what we always have been morally,” and Susan B. Anthony will be in her grave, barely shaking her head and chuckling to herself.

  280. 280
    BCHS Class of 1980 says:

    @patrick II: Or use of ‘Democrat’ as an adjective.

  281. 281
    Ruckus says:

    @Redshift:
    This.
    We age, we grow. We evolve.
    Some become more child like. Some get dumber. Some devolve.

  282. 282
    eemom says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I guess I’m an outlier, but I really like traditional matzoh. Specifically Streit’s Lightly Salted. It’s great with a good spread on top, e.g., flavored cream cheese, hummus etc. Does get very crumbly, though.

  283. 283
    eemom says:

    @Ruckus:

    The best thing about getting older is running out of fucks to give. IMHO.

  284. 284
    Jay says:

    @HumboldtBlue:

    The shrug’s due to:

    It was a decade ago and on LBGTQ issues, the vast majority of American’s have either changed their minds to more progressive positions, or learned to keep their mouths shut,

    Organized online ratfucking based on fake news, fake scandal, faux-rage, organized and coordinated by the worst inhabitants of the internet, (GG, Assange, Wiki, Russian bots and trolls, Wilmerites, etc), have become common place.

    Faux-rage fatigue,

    And, last but not least, what Joy Reid may or may not have said on her blog a decade ago, is mild compared to what most of the fauxrage J’accuser’s do, and say, every day.

  285. 285
    (Temporarily) Temporarily Max McGee says:

    @Karen Potter:

    Oh, sure, I think a lot of people were aware that LGBT people committed to each other ceremonially, but it was still a couple of decades later that any jurisdiction in the US recognized anything like marriage. It had to suck to have made that commitment and have to wait 40 years to get a license recognized and respected across the nation.

    But, OTOH, there were people to whom none of this was a thing until very recently, and not young people, either.

  286. 286
    BCHS Class of 1980 says:

    @opiejeanne: I knew about the LDS support for 8; that they also supported 187 is news to me. An interesting side note about the Making CA A One-Party State Act: while Googling to make sure it was the one I was thinking of, I saw a map of CA reflecting the vote totals. Only 8 counties (all in the Bay area) voted against 187.

    How times change.

  287. 287
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Can we take a fresh look at Greenwald and white supremacy given his Putinism and involvement with Assange, Snowjob and Manning?

    He’s a white supremacist tool of Russian intelligence. What “fresh look” needs to be taken beyond that?

  288. 288
    patroclus says:

    Well, I guess I’m late to the party, but I’m gay and, after reading what Joy Reid posted 10 years ago, I wasn’t really all that offended. It seemed a lot tamer than other stuff I read and heard back then, and sometimes I read and hear it today. For example, Lindsay Graham is commonly referred to as “Miss Graham” or similarly. Many straight people do cringe when they see gay guys kissing; some attack Ann Coulter for looking like she’s transsexual etc… – our discourse has improved since DADT went away and Obergfell and Windsor, but it ain’t perfect yet. And I’m pretty sure I’ve said or written stuff like that too. I didn’t really buy her “I was hacked” excuse, but now that she’s apologized (and I saw some of her show this morning too), I think we should just move on. And realize that Joy isn’t perfect but she’s evolved like most everyone else has on this issue. I look forward to dear Leader Greenwald similarly examining and scouring old blogs to out each and every homophobic remark made by others in his never-ending pursuit of justice on this issue. (Just like he did with Ron Paul’s old racist blogs – oh wait! he didn’t do that and instead defended Paul).

  289. 289
    Aleta says:

    @Ruckus: It’s a huge tell that he refuses to acknowledge mistakes in his past claims. It’s strange, like a personality disorder, since it’s normal (and sheer probability) that anyone who makes predictions and writes a lot will make mistakes. Refusing actually makes him look worse, untrustworthy.

  290. 290
    Ruckus says:

    @eemom:
    Don’t know if it’s the best thing, but on the other hand, possibly having a chronic debilitating neurological disease that can only be cured by death does sort of put things in perspective. Even if death is still the only cure for getting older.

  291. 291
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Baud: Drama llama is the preferred alternative.

  292. 292
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @opiejeanne: I didn’t see her as trollish- just kind of an asshole.

  293. 293
    Ruckus says:

    @(Temporarily) Temporarily Max McGee:

    But, OTOH, there were people to whom none of this was a thing until very recently, and not young people, either.

    I lost a very dear friend just over a year ago. She was in a loving 8 yr relationship with my sister about 45 yrs ago, and later she was in a nearly 30 yr relationship with another friend who she couldn’t marry. It’s not just LGBT folks who are touched by these relationships. But not everyone was aware or even knew they might even know anyone in any thing other than a straight relationship. And for a lot of straight people, they just don’t get that there may be other types of relationships. Hell a lot of them have horrendous issues with making straight relationships work. Trying to figure out something they don’t understand about something they maybe haven’t learned about in themselves, relationships, this really shouldn’t be a surprise.

  294. 294
    Joseph Nobles says:

    @Harry:

    If you want to forgive Joy Ann Reid, then you have to forgive Kevin Williamson.

    Thanks for the laugh.

  295. 295
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @opiejeanne:

    they came to view the uninvited passengers as part of the meal.

    Roughage.

  296. 296
    Ruckus says:

    @Aleta:

    Refusing actually makes him look worse, untrustworthy.

    Which may not be his worst trait. He’s like Sullivan, he’s a hot mess with a bull horn. Decades ago we’d see his type on a street corner with a sandwich board sign or a bullhorn. (Actually we still have one around here on weekend nights, a bullhorn for Jesus) Now he has the internet, so he can reach a lot more people. Which I suppose is what we are all doing.

  297. 297
    Karen Potter says:

    @eemom: I don’t remember the brand we bought when was child, but I do remember what the package looked like and would buy in large quantity when local stores in WI carried it; for some reason I liked it with thick coating of butter and nothing else. I would home bake lots of interesting unleavened recipes; have a great one for flavored pound cakes done on sheet pans. So this year when I couldn’t find in stores up to 2 hours away I found myself craving.

  298. 298
    WaterGirl says:

    @debit: I watched her on Colbert (I think it was Colbert) a couple of months ago and she was all proud about how what she did was the right thing to do. No regrets on her end, which I think is appalling.

    Was there some sort of committee ruling on Franken? I apparently missed that.

  299. 299
    Karen Potter says:

    @(Temporarily) Temporarily Max McGee: I know that I had strange, weird and unusual upbringing; and for years I was able to ignore or deal with the cruelty that comes when you are different and accept that others are different. One reason why I so enjoy the internet; I can find others of my “tribe” to connect with and keep my sanity.

  300. 300
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @opiejeanne:

    and then there’s EF Goldman who seems to know quite a bit about everything

    You live long enough, you’re bound to retain a fair amount of information.

    #OlderThanEFG

  301. 301
    FlipYrWhig says:

    The audacity of Greenwald, a repellent character and an enormous hypocrite on every level, leading this crusade is breathtaking. He has a record of saying hateful things and accepting apologies for people who say hateful things… if he likes them, then he absolves them. Who the fuck does he think he is? Why do so many people give him that power over their minds? He is despicable and contemptible and should be about as celebrated on the soi-disant left as Ben Shapiro.

  302. 302
    Karen Potter says:

    @Ruckus: Another relationship that is not accepted is a poly; my sister of heart’s youngest is in one, she said what didn’t work for two works for three.

  303. 303
    WaterGirl says:

    @guachi: It seems completely possible to me that someone has figured out how to hack into stuff without leaving a trace that we currently know how to follow. Can I be certain that’s what happened here? No. But I do believe it might have happened.

    It’s just like encryption, only kind of in reverse. We have an encryption method that works, but only for awhile because the encryption breaking technology advances and then that method doesn’t work anymore. So they come up with a better encryption scheme, which also works for awhile.

    Or it’s like fingerprints, and then DNA. First, no one knew they were living evidence until that technology advanced. Same with DNA. I think it’s possible that the screwing-with-records thing may have advanced in such a way that we currently don’t know how to follow the footprints.

    I agree with those who think this is rat fucking, just like with Franken. Which still makes my blood boil. The rat fuckers light the match, and we poor the gasoline onto the fire.

  304. 304
    debit says:

    @WaterGirl: No, the pointI was trying to make was that she called for Franken to resign before there was a committee investigation. I am still incredibly fucking angry.

  305. 305
    Ruviana says:

    @debit: Yep, first thing I thought reading the OP was of Al Franken.

  306. 306
    Emerald says:

    @debit: Greenwald was in on that one too.

    And the looney Left jumps on the bandwagon every time, as long as the victim doesn’t support Wilmer. Be sure they will attack Markos and Rachel with righteous glee as soon as GG shifts his narrative to them.

  307. 307
    Ruckus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    #not as old as EFG
    #not as old as SD
    #still older than dirt.i made it this far
    I have a huge store of stuff in in the brain bin. Some of it might even be true. Some of it might even be real. Or not. I’m pretty sure I know which is which, but am I right or wrong? Age brings stuff, it should also bring doubt. Often that doubt is missing.

  308. 308
    eemom says:

    @debit:

    Agreed. Can’t fucking STAND her.

  309. 309
    eemom says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Agree with this too. A perfect summation of the question I ask myself every time his name comes up, i.e., why/how — even in this batshit crazy world — is that guy still a thing amongst anybody who purports to be a liberal??

  310. 310
    Baud says:

    @eemom: Me three.

  311. 311
    matt says:

    Well, what does Trump supporter HA Goodman have to say about it?

  312. 312
    BCHS Class of 1980 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: And if ‘drama llama’ is used instead, you won’t be sacked and replaced by llamas.

  313. 313
    WaterGirl says:

    @debit: I’m right there with you in my still white hot anger about what was done to Al Franken.

  314. 314
    WaterGirl says:

    @eemom: I am not a grudge holder, but in her case, i am making an exception.

  315. 315
    AxelFoley says:

    @JPL:

    I haven’t read the comments yet, but I think Joy was sincere and I hope that she can weather the storm. President Obama evolved over time on gay marriage, and because of that the government argued for gay marriage. It is now the law of the land.

    Yeah, about that—I don’t think President Obama “evolved” on same sex marriage. He just didn’t want the GOP to make it a campaign issue in 2008. He politicked, and when he got in office, fought for same sex marriage and the end of DADT. A lot of holier than thous on the left just won’t gat past that, hence the narrative Obama had to “evolve” on an issue he was for as an Illinois state senator.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/10/obama-frustrated-same-sex-marriage-david-axelrod-book

  316. 316
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @FlipYrWhig: this.

  317. 317
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    The Twitter lynching of Joy Ann Reid by the Bernie left

    Linky

  318. 318
    opiejeanne says:

    @BCHS Class of 1980: No, wait. I meant 8. Scratch what I said about 187, I got the numbers mixed up.

  319. 319
    Wild Cat says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Thanks. Nauseating. Guaranteed this is why “Democracy Now!” is permitted to broadcast in my area on CUNY and NPR, as well as the cesspool called WBAI. Amy’s minions are the #1 rat-fuckers of the Left.

  320. 320
    opiejeanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: That, definitely. Thought troll a little later.

  321. 321
    opiejeanne says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I was thinking: adding protein to the diet.

  322. 322
    Doug R says:

    @Adam L Silverman: You come up with something witty, then you type it on your phone….

  323. 323
    sigyn says:

    @HumboldtBlue: So…we have a “hideous bigotry” & I’ll pair that with “virulently homophobic” which I saw elsewhere and ask you honestly: She said what?

    AFAIK (by all means, enlighten me if I’m wrong) she stands accused of talking about people being squicked out by two guys kissing, and giving Charlie Christ some shit. 10 years ago.

    After 40 years of struggling with the issue, I’ve accepted that I am asexual. And I wish all y’all would just get a goddamn room. Seriously. Get. A. Grip. Yes, people are being beaten to death for being gay. That was the point of Annie Proulx’s beautiful short story. They are also being beaten to death for being for being different in any way, or for being in the wrong place at the wrong time or for simply for being the children of monsters.

    All I know for certain is Joy Ann Reid made my Easter week-end by reminding viewers that Ted Nugent avoided the draft by pooping his pants. A known fact that every newscaster should bring up whenever they mention his name.

  324. 324
    My Truth Hurts says:

    So by the same reasoning we should ignore all the old Trump tweets and quotes that directly contradict his current tweets and public statements? We should just ignore his hypocrisy and total lack of principles because the statements were a few years old? I don’t think so.

    Sorry folks I know some of you love having heroes in the media and government but the fact is none of them are infallible and as Public personas are not immune or expempt from examination. That you would defend these people after the fact shows how bankrupt your own principles are. You’re either principled and rigidly apply those principles to everyone and everything regardless of partisanship, or you’re dishonest hacks making excuses for bad behavior. I’ve found most of the regular commentators here to fall under the latter.

    Just as previous actions and statements can prevent a private citizen from a job, or security clearance, so can they be used against Public personas. None of you had a problem with the Atlantic firing Kevin Williamson for the horrible things he’s said, why is Joy exempt from her previous utterances?

    You can be a hypocrite or you can be principled. It’s not about purity trolling it’s about consistent credibility and relevance.

  325. 325
    Keith G says:

    @HumboldtBlue: Pretty good summary in all respects. She fucked up twice. Her past insensitivity toward my people is not outrageous. If she said she has moved on, then I believe her and welcome her to the enlightenment. On the other hand, her initial dodging of the issue of responsibility makes her seem petty and unserious. I would think that in her world credibility is the coin of the realm.

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