Alexandre Bissonnette, the Canadian extreme right terrorist who attacked a Quebec City Mosque last year,was radicalized by a who’s who of American right wing thought leaders. Andy Riga from the Montreal Gazette has the details:
When will Ben Shapiro’s rabbi make a statement about how Bissonnette’s actions are unacceptable and that the speech of his congregant, Shapiro, is also outside the acceptable bounds of Modern Orthodox Judaism? How about John Nolte’s, Tucker Carlson’s, Ann Coulter’s, Kellyanne Conway’s, Laura Ingraham’s, Bret Baier’s, Stefan Molyneux’s, John Sexton’s, James Allsup’s, Neil Turner’s, Stephen Bannon’s, Ben Domenech’s, or Robert O’Neill’s priests or ministers or pastors make a statement that Bissonnette’s actions are unacceptable and that the speech of their congregants listed above are outside the acceptable bounds of Roman Catholicism or whatever version of Protestantism these fine, Christian souls practice? When will Breitbart’s or The Federalist’s or Fox News’s or Breitbart’s or Hot Air’s publishers and funders denounce their employees speech and its consequences?
If every Muslim has to denounce every act of terrorism done in the name of Islam, at the very least the spiritual leaders and employers and financial patrons of these enablers and promoters of anti-Muslim terrorism should have to do the same!
Free speech, especially the most controversial and inflammatory speech, is and should continue to be protected. That does NOT, however, mean that engaging in that speech doesn’t come with a price. The hatred, the vitriol, the bigotry, the extremism that these speakers and commenters and authors spew is rightly protected. Those protections do NOT absolve them of the responsibility for the all too predictable outcome of that speech.
Stay toasty!
Open thread.
Villago Delenda Est
Ben Shapiro (The Virgin Ben) is having a hell of a time explaining how his life’s work isn’t really involved in all this.
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: Shonda for the goyim!
Patricia Kayden
Truly a list of deplorables if there ever was one.
Gin & Tonic
I like the word “commentatrice.”
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: Everything sounds better in French.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: This is true.
Mary G
Quite a Who’s Who of the people who got the president elected. Ben Shapiro responded on twitter; can’t remember exactly what, but it included “GFY”. And this is the guy they try to pass off as the new conservative intellectual since Paul Ryan blew his cover.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: As a person with Frog-Canuck ancestry, I can say that she embarrasses and offends the fuck out of me. Whatever her influences.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Who is she, so I know who exactly you’re referring to? Thanks!
The Moar You Know
Yeah, apologies will not be forthcoming, I am afraid.
Church based across the street from me (in a public school, how the fuck is that OK?) is still having anti-gay visiting speakers on the down low. I guess it’s progress that it’s on the down low, but not much. The hate is still being spewed.
Mnemosyne
@Gin & Tonic:
I liked “conseillère.” Made me realize that it probably shares a root Latin word with the more familiar Italian term.
lollipopguild
All of the people on the list are “special”, therefore they do not have to explain or apologize for what they say or do.
Yutsano
*sigh*
http://www.xkcd.com/1357
Adam L Silverman
One point: The Federalist refuses to reveal who funds it.
Washburn
Well, when you lay it out like that, it makes it seems like the other side’s position isn’t reasonable at all.
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
If there were a list with the title Rich Conservative Assholes, their names would be at the top.
Adam L Silverman
@Yutsano: Correct. Didn’t want to put it in the post as its basically a cliche at this point.
Adam L Silverman
@Ruckus: Possibly.
sukabi
How the hell did Hannity stay off that list?
Mary G
I think Pruitt and Zinke must have some kind of bet going:
He wanted bigger flags than the ones the current poles can manage, and four new flag poles would cost $50k each. He had the sense not to do it, but come on.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Convert that to a he. I saw Alexendre as Alexandra. My bad.
Amir Khalid
@Mnemosyne:
The mixing of English and French in that list seems very Canadian to me. It also reminds me of the Malaysian habit of mixing languages in conversation — Malay, English, Tamil, Cantonese, whatever.
Adam L Silverman
@sukabi: It’s not the full list. Just what the reporter tweeted. The full list is here:
https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/ywxeyg/here-are-the-far-right-conspiracists-the-quebec-city-mosque-shooter-followed?utm_campaign=sharebutton
More at the link.
Doug!
Don’t forget that Robert Byrd was in the KKK too.
Adam L Silverman
Oh goodie!
Doug!
Disappointed Jordan Peterson isn’t on that list.
BruceFromOhio
But her emails.
Adam L Silverman
Lest we forget this fine fellow!
It is absolutely amazing that every SEAL publicly affiliated with the President’s campaign, who has accepted a political appointment, or who is working for organizations supporting the President seems to be a bigoted, racist, homophobe.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
When will they do this? Never. Because they believe it themselves and they applaud it. These are people who believe in winning at all costs. Doesn’t matter how. Doesn’t matter if the arguments are logically consistent. It’s win, baby win. Kill them all and let God sort them out. That’s what you’re dealing with. For authoritarians, there is no such thing as objective truth but what they declare to be truth, subject to change when convenient for the authoritarian.
The only way to deal with people like this is to completely marginalize them.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I thought that might be the case, but figured I’d check.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
A confederacy of HINOS.
(The “H” is for Human.)
Amir Khalid
I have to disagree. If you’re stoking people’s prejudices and tacitly encouraging them to violence, what you’re leading isn’t thought.
NotMax
@Amir Khalid
“We incite, you decide.”
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: Would certainly lead the disinterested outsider to make a deduction about SEALs in general.
TS (the original)
It’s never the fault of a GOPer – democrat followers – of course the democrats are to blame – but never does a republican admit to a problem with what they do and say. Rather like Hannity saying he doesn’t have to explain what his employees do – I seem to remember him calling out Hillary Clinton because of what a couple of her employees did.
(Need a new nim – someone seems to have latched onto a minor variation of the old one – I know not who he/she is)
Mike in NC
@Adam L Silverman: Adam, I never in 30 years of commissioned service met a SEAL who wasn’t an asshole scumbag.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Mike in NC:
A right-winger I used to work with wanted to be a SEAL.
Parfigliano
@Gin & Tonic: my thought too…why find this shocking
Ruckus
@Mike in NC:
I have met one. I didn’t know him long enough to find out if he was an asshole or not. But if you’ve met multiples and they were all assholes, your assessment is probably the better one.
Cheryl Rofer
I’m pleased to say that New Mexico has ridded itself of Robert Mercer’s desire for the veneer of law enforcement on his concealed carry permit. He’s bribed the sheriff of Yuma County, Colorado, to cater to his fantasies.
Cheryl Rofer
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: @Mike in NC: My boss is one. He’s good people. I think what drives the ones that tend to make themselves public figures, which is not usually the case in that community – they usually keep their heads down and their mouths shut, are the worst exemplars. I think there’s likely a correlation between the attention seeking and being scumbags.
Adam L Silverman
Is everyone enjoying Infrastructure Week?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman: Wait, it’s Infrastructure Week? I thought that was last week.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Tunnel vision for everyone!
;)
lollipopguild
@Adam L Silverman: There is a surprise in every box of infrastructure!
Mary G
Wired has an article up about a scholar’s study of Facebook election ads, “How Russian Facebook Ads Divided and Targeted US Voters Before the 2016 Election.”
Amir Khalid
@Adam L Silverman:
I would have thought that the selection process for commando units would weed out the attention seekers, since it’s not helpful to what such units do.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Oy vey, this asshole!
Dudley Brown runs the National Association for Gun Rights (NAGR). NAGR sends multiple emails a day to people on its email lists requesting them send money to support the 2nd Amendment because Paul Ryan or Nancy Pelosi or whomever is trying to destroy it. They also have some sort of agreement with Rand Paul and Thomas Massie to share their email lists, which gets anyone signed up one or two NAGR emails a year from Paul and/or Massie and also emails from Paul and Massie’s own campaigns.
Here’s an example:
NotMax
@BillinGlendaleCA
That was Infrastructure. week. This is Infrastructure Week.
It’s like Zathras, only there are more of them.
:)
Adam L Silverman
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Every week is infrastructure week!
Adam L Silverman
@Amir Khalid: It is supposed to be indoctrinated out. One of the post 9-11 problems, however, has been an influx of bubbas that want to hunt and kill terrorists. For the SEALs this isn’t necessarily an issue as hunter/killer operations are part of their mission set. It has been more of an issue for the Green Berets, whose primary mission set is unconventional warfare. My take, as an informed observer, is some of what drives some of the bubbas that want to do the hunter/killer missions is also a drive for notoriety.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax:
Amir Khalid
@NotMax:
@Adam L Silverman:
When every week is infrastructure week, no week is Infrastructure Week.
sukabi
@Cheryl Rofer:
Are we sure the Mercers aren’t involved with drug trafficking?
Amir Khalid
@Adam L Silverman:
I have a comment in moderation. Gee, what’d I do?
ETA: And I get sprung almost right away. Thanks, Adam.
Adam L Silverman
@Amir Khalid: I freed it.
WP appears to be randomly wonky tonight. Its eaten some other regular commenter’s comments. As in not in spam or in trash, just gone. I have no idea what the issue is, but when I speak with Alain in the AM, I’ll ask him to poke around.
Villago Delenda Est
@NotMax: “No one listens to Zathras.”
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Probably my favorite bit of Zathras dialogue.
danielx
Tax preparation sucks….but it’s done and filed. Oh frabjous day!
Actually, I sort of like this infrastructure week so far. Perhaps it will emerge that Cohen was covering up potential charges of bestiality against Hannity. One can always hope.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: I like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j-76eLz1hc
Fair Economist
@sukabi:
The Mercers are active in medicine, so what with the opiate lobby, we know they *are* involved with drug trafficking.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
That’s the same clip I linked to above in #50.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: This is what I get when I click on your link in #50:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtMP2EiRH0Y&feature=youtu.be&t=4
Yarrow
@Amir Khalid: We are all Infrastructure Week now.
NotMax
@Adam L.Silverman
Now that’s weird – I just clicked again on the link in #50 to check and it went to the correct place.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
That’s the link in #59 above, not the one in #50.
Or else the time/space continuum is out of service.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: jeez, it’s almost like this was a completely predictable consequence of putting billions of non-secure machines online.
Ruckus
@danielx:
Not to be too much of an ass about it but I got my almost nothing CA refund about 8 weeks ago.My fed refund was $7.00. Yes you read it right seven whole dollars, I just put it towards my next yrs refund so that might make double figures. But then my taxes are rather easy, it took me less than an hour to do both fed and CA and that included printing out copies. CA is done online so just a copy for me, fed has to be mailed in of course. Taxes are not all that difficult if you own nothing, have no investments, no 401/ira or retirement whatevers and one W2.
I call it old geezer success, I made it this far and have nothing to show for it.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks, now I understand Infrastructure Week.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: Sorry, my bad. I didn’t notice the link in 50 at all. Long day. Something I ate is disagreeing with me. Getting ready to rack out.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Who could’ve known?
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: next you’ll be telling me that voting machines with no paper trail are vulnerable to tampering.
danielx
@Ruckus:
I’m getting money back, but it was because I overestimated what I/we needed to pay by a long shot. Look on the bright side – you didn’t make an interest-free loan to the Feds, which they’ll get around to paying back. Eventually.
Ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
Noooo, tell me you are kidding……
danielx
@Major Major Major Major:
Who knew? And besides, it’s complicated and difficult providing a paper trail, just ask Diebold.
Oh wait, they do that with thousands of ATMS every day. My bad.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Is a puzzlement!
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: at least we aren’t carrying GPS-enabled cameras and microphones everywhere!
Ruckus
@danielx:
Well in some ways I did make a loan to the feds. Not a monetary one out of my paycheck but I pay fed taxes on my SS income and the wonderful conservative assholes that are currently running the place into the ground are surly going to at least attempt to fuck up my SS retirement money and the assholes are trying to privatize the VA. It’s already started with a program called Choice. Some services are outsourced if a particular clinic doesn’t have that service and vets are calling the VA for appointments to those outside services and of course that’s not how it works so they get mad at the VA. So they won’t oppose those assholes privatizing it until it’s too late. So yeah my taxes are easy, and my life just keeps on getting better.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: That’s just crazy talk!
NotMax
@danielx
Have been leery of ATMs since the time one (at a bank, no less) shortchanged me – by A LOT. The receipt matched the amount I had requested be spit out, an amount higher than what I received. And the higher amount was deducted from my account. Took nearly 3 weeks to get that straightened out.
Jacel
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Every Infrastructure Week is dedicated to the task of building the next Infrastructure Week.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
Some say funny shenanigans happened in Ohio in ’04. Who knows? ;)
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: the thing is that voting machines are by and large vulnerable at the level of individual machines, so anything of consequence happening in 2004 via that mechanism is fairly unlikely.
sukabi
@Fair Economist: the NM article that Cheryl linked to is just strange. What possible legitimate reason could Mercer have playing reserve ‘cop’ interacting with the Mexican cartels?
kattails
Dear Adam, So I wandered off to do some online research and drawings for a project, come back a couple of hours later, and you’re telling us to “stay toasty” for a change. Which given the inch of sleet/snow/freezing whatever we got today is much more appealing than “frosty”.
Also, what you said about the other stuff, too. Although I might quibble with the term “spiritual leaders” given the context. Substitute charlatan, fraud, grifter for leader and stop expecting anything out of them; but you of course know this. It’s a rhetorical question. Still makes me want to grab them by the shirt front and pin them against a wall to ask the question.
danielx
@Ruckus:
I hear you. I didn’t mean to belittle your difficulties with the whole deal.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
Although as the software with which they’re loaded is proprietary and exempt from inspection by agreement (stupidly) signed by the governmental election authorities, one can never entirely erase suspicion.
Doesn’t necessarily even have to be a case of insidious or planned tampering with the tally, could be a case of plain sketchy programming.
Ruckus
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
I lived/voted in OH in 2004. We had 2 machines for several precincts, I lived in a somewhat blue area and the previous 2 votes at the same location and precincts we had far more machines. They didn’t need to fuck with the results, they got low turn out as people had to go to work and didn’t hang around. I waited in the rain for 4 hrs and I got to the polling place when it opened. I got to work in time to go to lunch. It was obvious to me that they fucked with us because of our area. People I knew in less blue areas had plenty of machines and no waiting.
NotMax
@sukabi
My understanding is that it was because the badge gave him carte blanche to concealed carry weapons across state lines without having to apply for permits
tamiasmin
Is the most inflammatory speech really protected? Will I face no ill consequences if I urge people to harm a person or a group of people whom I dislike, perhaps even inciting them to homicide? I hope that is not the case.
At the usual risk of being told that I am a nerdish, elitist grammar nazi, I present this strange succession of words: “Those protections does NOT let absolve them of the responsibility for the all to predictable outcome of that speech.” I am not sure what it is supposed to be, but it certainly is not an English sentence.
danielx
@Major Major Major Major:
It’s odd that you mention that; it’s something that I’ve given some thought every so often. If someone had told the collective us forty-fifty years ago that we had to carry around devices that would allow the government and/or various bad actors access to our most private information*…there would have been riots in the streets. Now we do it voluntarily because of the convenience said devices offer. It is taken as normal that you cannot do without a cell phone, and in some ways that is true. You are out in the boonies somewhere and get hurt somehow, you gotta call somebody unless you want to die. Sooner or later some prosecutor somewhere is going to prosecute someone on the basis that they didn’t have a cell phone record proving they were elsewhere when a crime was committed at a particular location….
Could be I’m a cynical pessimist, but every day that goes by shows me otherwise.
*ETA: depending on the individual and how much interest bad people have in that individual. I don’t differentiate between government and freelance in this area, only in the consequences each can involve.
Ruckus
@danielx:
You weren’t belittling me at all. I was just venting a bit about the fun turns my life is taking due to conservative assholes. I’ve said on here before that I lost everything in the last recession and that everything was my retirement concept. I’m not alone in that loss either. If enough people figure out that they are getting shit on because of this massive tax fuck job that conservatives just pulled off and learn it early enough I’m hoping that this will mean that the republican party has fucked itself royally. Because that’s the only way they are going to be banished to the life of extremely rotten fruit and bags of flaming dog shit that they deserve.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
I know nothing about voting machines. I was only joking
sukabi
@NotMax: I get that part of it. According to the article that part of the deal got pulled, Mercer donated a bunch more equipment to the sheriff dept. And got his concealed carry privileges back….but the article had the sheriff saying they went undercover with the cartels…and then wouldn’t confirm or deny yada, yada, yada…just weird.
Don’t think the sheriff knows exactly what’s going on under his nose.
Amir Khalid
@tamiasmin:
Here, let me copy-edit that for yuh:
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Ruckus:
In my area, we fill in bubbles on paper forms now and insert them into a computer/machine that tallies and records the votes. I don’t know if this is different from the voting machines or not. I remember back in elementary ( probably in 2004) we got to use one to vote for something for our school. I remember being so excited to use one. Little did I realise how they could be used to fuck with an election, like you described.
danielx
@Ruckus:
O yes…..my professional career, such as it was, got blown up in 2009. The spousal unit and I were able to hang onto our house because she made enough bucks to keep us going, unlike a lot of people. I was able to do some work and bring in some bucks, again unlike a lot of people. But I’m still pissed that the people who did the best out of fucking everybody else are still enjoying their ill-gotten gains. Guilty as hell and free as a bird.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@sukabi:
Related:
I thought it was stupid of Mercer to reveal that he goes out on his own to the middle of nowhere to play pretend deputy sheriff in some bizarre Western fantasy. The man has to have enemies that would be willing have him killed; just make it look like the cartels or something ambushed him.
Amir Khalid
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
What’s the point of doing a thing, if you don’t get to brag about it?
Ruckus
@danielx:
Closed my second business in 2012 after the recession and my bank account completely flew the coop and found a job a year later, still have it today. But I’m not working till I drop. Fuck that, 58 yrs of working is more than enough so 2 more years and I’m done. Someone else can pick up the slack. And actually it will be more than 58 years then if you count paper boy.
J R in WV
@Adam L Silverman:
One question… if the Federalist refuses to say who funds the operation, do they still get a federal USPS mailing label? That lets then send their rag to people in return fpr a few cents per issue per copy mailed?
@Ruckus:
I retired at 58 Y O after working since I was 14, with a few years off the clock building the farm, making the house livable, the barn able to hold some critters and hay and feed. Then college on the GI Bill, mostly. I let my parents buy the books needed, which was more than I would have thought, even in the 1980-86 era when I went.
So 40 odd years of paid labor. I was doing pretty well by retirement, running a software shop for the state DEP… nothing like what I would have earned doing the job for silicon valley, but way good for a boy from coal country, more than a coal miner, without going underground every day. In WV you have vested your retirement when your age and your years of work total 80. You get to count military service, so many of my coworkers who served 20 or 25 years in the Army hit many years of service by the time they were 55 or 60. I hit it on my birthday in 2008.
I will confess that I never heard of Alaxandre Bissonnette, sounds like she did something vile for reasons of religious hatred. So I won’t care for her motivations or her personal belief system. Nazi wannabee.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: it’s a popular… ‘conspiracy theory’ is going too far, but… yeah.
Morfydd
@J R in WV: He (French spelling of Alexander) shot up a mosque in Quebec shortly after Trump’s election? Inauguration?
Ksmiami
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: or remove their right to be in the public sphere at all. Actually most speech is protected except for incitement to violence
nonynony
@Adam L Silverman:
In this absurdist novel we live in, it’s going to turn out that the Russians have been funding the Federalist all along, isn’t it?
Ramalama
I used to find it unbelievable when people had to start saying things like, “I am opposed to genocide” whenever talking about genocide because if you didn’t, you could easily be accused of being in favor of genocide.
Genocide is one of hundreds of examples now.
It didn’t use to be like this.
Tarragon
@NotMax:
Wow, nice!
The Moar You Know
@Adam L Silverman: This is my field of expertise. And I hate to say, but this is an own goal, we did this to ourselves.
When your outsource the manufacture and maintenance of your infrastructure to people who have every interest in seeing you fail, you’re going to have problems.
The lack of security on these devices is not an accident, and the Russians who have penetrated/pwned them don’t even know half of the vulnerabilities that are there. They just grabbed the easy ones, the ones in the firmware.
tamiasmin
@Amir Khalid: A fair beginning, though I’m not sure the hyphens are needed. Then replace ”does” with ”do” and insert ”us” between ”let” and ”absolve” and you’re done. English!
Miss Bianca
@Cheryl Rofer: oh, goodie. you mean he is our states problem now??
Adam L Silverman
@tamiasmin: Thank you for catching that. I appreciate it.
How about next time you be less of an ass when pointing it out?
tamiasmin
@Adam L Silverman:
“How about next time you be less of an ass when pointing it out?”
Thanks, Adam. I’ll add ”ass” to the other insults from people who think their readers ought to be grateful for a chance to figure out what they meant to write.
And it’s ”too.”
tamiasmin
@Adam L Silverman:
Let me try again, Adam. You are a knowledgeable and engaging writer whose information and opinions many readers rely upon, I among them. But you harm your credibility when you fail to read over a short post to catch and correct obvious errors. Readers may fairly wonder whether a writer who is unconcerned about the easy stuff is also careless about his main theme. I liken it to serving nutritious food on soiled dishes; it spoils the whole experience. It only takes two minutes to finish the job and get it right.