It’s the Democrats fault that I took hostages and the Republicans don’t care enough about them to pay the ransom.
Unfair! https://t.co/iK2U1yIGZx
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) March 23, 2018
As a matter of National Security I've signed the Omnibus Spending Bill. I say to Congress: I will NEVER sign another bill like this again. To prevent this omnibus situation from ever happening again, I'm calling on Congress to give me a line-item veto for all govt spending bills! https://t.co/kYwMk5AE5k
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 23, 2018
So credible. Much commitment. https://t.co/tK8xNXZtiK
— Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) March 23, 2018
Of course Trump signed the budget bill — after dragging out the ‘suspense’ at least one installment & most of another too long — because his handlers told him no signing, no golfing. And he’d already missed one kickin’ Mar-a-Largo party over the last “shutdown” kabuki.
Also of course, he had to be both a showboater and a pissant about the whole thing. Per the Washington Post, paper of record for the company town whose industry is national politics:
President Trump jolted Washington on Friday when he began the day tweeting that he might veto a massive spending bill needed to prevent a government shutdown — and then appearing in front of cameras five hours later to say that he had signed the legislation.
Trump ripped into the $1.3 trillion funding package in remarks at the White House shortly after 1 p.m., calling it a “ridiculous situation,” filled with overspending yet lacking enough money for his border wall or a deal to resolve the future of the young, undocumented immigrants known as “dreamers.” He said he was only signing the bill because it contained a boost for the military…
Friday’s five hours of confusion showed once again how nothing is certain in Trump’s Washington and any deal is at risk of being blown up by the mercurial president. On Thursday, administration officials and congressional leaders said that the president would sign the bill — even though for days he had privately complained about the package in late-night phone calls and early morning rants — and the White House issued a news release touting its accomplishments.
It also highlighted Trump’s desire to be seen as his own political entity and still an outsider, separate at times from the Republican Party he leads. During his remarks at the White House, Trump sought to distance himself from a bill unpopular with his base but that his aides helped craft and the GOP-led Congress passed. At times he went so far as to portray himself as being almost helpless and having little choice but to accept the spending package…
The spending bill is widely expected to be the last major piece of legislation that Congress will pass before the November midterm elections, which increased pressure to jam it full of legislative odds and ends, including provisions on guns and combating invasive carp. The bill funds the federal government through Sept. 30, and provides $700 billion for the military and $591 billion for domestic agencies…The details of this spending package should not have been new to the president. Short, Jonathan Slemrod and Kathleen Kraninger — all administration aides — were involved in the negotiations in recent days that went until the wee hours of the morning with congressional appropriators, according to three people familiar with the talks.
So members were perplexed when Trump, all of a sudden, seemed to not know what was in the bill Friday and said he might not sign it…
Eventually, White House officials said, Trump demanded having a public event, where he could show his political supporters that he didn’t like the bill while attacking Democrats — and labeling it all for the military.
Before cameras at the White House, Trump vented about the parts of the bill he disliked and called for the power to issue line-item vetoes — something the Supreme Court has deemed unconstitutional — and urged the Senate to junk the legislative filibuster, which has little support among senators.
But this battle was already over. He signed the bill before appearing before reporters.
(See, there are no pictures of Trump signing the bill. Next time he’s challenged, he’ll claim he never did sign it, it can’t be proved that was his signature…)
I'm really not understanding the point of a whole press conference to announce he didn't get what he wanted, that Democrats out maneuvered him, that Republican leadership didn't help him, that Mexico isn't paying for the wall and that he can't read quickly. What is the gain here?
— Ginger Gibson (@GingerGibson) March 23, 2018
Congress snuck new Russia sanctions into spending bill that Trump just signed https://t.co/9vQKWYsDjF
— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) March 23, 2018
Then: GOPe needs to hand Obama a spending bill that works and if he vetoes, let the government shut down in perpetuity!
Now: Trump can't help it if Congress won't do what he wants!
— Jay Caruso (@JayCaruso) March 23, 2018
The stunts feel increasingly lame don't they?
— Chris Hayes (@chrislhayes) March 23, 2018
Remember how Trump budget said cut State Dept 28 pc?
He just signed omnibus that increased it 15 pc.— Charles Lane (@ChuckLane1) March 24, 2018
OK, now that that's all over, can we just savor one more time what Jim Risch did last night? https://t.co/vlVOm6Nq27
— Mike DeBonis (@mikedebonis) March 23, 2018
Risch, who objected to the spending bill because it would rename a wilderness area after a rival, is expected to chair the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, where he will have oversight of U.S. diplomacy. Revealing Senate scene from @mikedebonis https://t.co/vN1pRrrDNu
— Laura Helmuth (@laurahelmuth) March 23, 2018
NotMax
Press
conferencetantrum.rikyrah
Good Morning,Everyone ???
JPL
Washington Post headline
Frankensteinbeck
Who are these people? People are doing actual work, which is amazing in this White House, and I’ve never heard of them. This seems important.
There isn’t one. Like I keep saying, Trump has no strategy, and almost never thinks beyond his immediate desires. Also, I called it that he’s too chickenshit to veto.
EDIT – Also also, the more I hear, the more it sounds like the Democrats kicked the shit out of Republicans in negotiations.
mainmata
Senator Risch? Who the hell is that? Wow, the GOP is really bringing its A-Team, isn’t it?
HinTN
@rikyrah: Good morning and happy marching to all today. I will wear my outfit from the Scientists’ March as we travel from BNA to LAS today for a much needed tour of four National Parks in Utah.
Edited to fix stupid autocorrect
Magda in Black
Wasn’t there something in there about leaving the states alone with regard to legalized cannibis?
(Yes, I’m too lazy to look)
Also too: Good Morning ✨
Quinerly
@rikyrah: Good morning from Poco and his tribe!
HinTN
@Frankensteinbeck: Nancy Smash, people. She knows her shit.
Litlebritdifrnt
Many of the replies to Trump’s tweet pointed out to him that the line item veto had already been ruled unconstitutional and Donny Dollhands should at least have been informed of that point. Lots of the replies were from very pissed off Trump supporters who are stomping their little feets. It is amusing for a Saturday morning distraction.
OzarkHillbilly
Well, he does have a history of not signing important legal papers.
condorcet runner-up
As this is an open thread and all, let me just reiterate how terrible LaGuardia Airport is …
Elizabelle
@HinTN: Have fun. OTR pictures, coming up!
Good morning, all.
March, march, march. Let’s roar.
And, damn, these local high school students want us to be out there too damn early. Later.
Waspuppet
Yeah, I’m confident that the reason the speech was a half hour late was because they were still arguing with him.
I’m at least equally confident that last night’s transgender military ban was because he was pissed off and needed to kick someone.
OzarkHillbilly
@Magda in Black: I read it was medicinal marijuana.
condorcet runner-up
@OzarkHillbilly: baby steps
condorcet runner-up
So far, msnbc, CNN, and HLN are all carrying special coverage of the march(es). This is great.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: Heh. Maybe he can get an LLC to sign future bills he doesn’t like.
Baud
@Litlebritdifrnt: Thank god trump doesn’t have a line item veto.
satby
@rikyrah: Good morning and Happy March Day ?! Hoping for a huge turnout!
Aleta
It’s another good omen! Happened Thursday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reAiyMAi0Aw
HinTN
@OzarkHillbilly: FTW
Welp, no need to read any more internets today. Done won.
WereBear
Good luck to all the marchers today!
OzarkHillbilly
@condorcet runner-up: The man who move a mountain starts with a single stone.
@Baud: Heh, Cohen will set it up for him.
HinTN
@Aleta:
OMG,
@HinTN:
I was wrong. The opening scene in that Trumps Ozark. Shut my mouth.
mainmata
Senator Risch? Who the hell is that? Wow, the GOP is really bringing the A-Team, isn’t it?
Aimai
Marching with the social workers! And my daughter. Experiencing a little anxiety. The womens march was so huge in the same space we literally didnt move for hours.
mainmata
@Frankensteinbeck: Marc Short is the lead for Legislative Affairs such as it is in this ramshackle administration. He’s regularly on the bobble-head shows being a dickhead. I assume the others are his lackeys. Trump was determined not to miss another Mar-a-Lago party and golf event so of course he’d sign it. He had no idea what was in it. Except really big for the military. Bang, bang.
OzarkHillbilly
@HinTN: Damn. Beaten by a T-Rex with a really bad case of hemorrhoids. Next time he’ll take a pass on the Ghost peppers.
mainmata
@OzarkHillbilly: Meeeeooooowwwwwwrrr!
Amir Khalid
The usual Trumpish petulance. Nothing new here, but it all needs to go on the record. I imagine that when Mueller’s final report goes to Rosenstein, something’s going to leak that so disgraces Trump he can’t possibly continue as POTUS; but he will try to continue anyway. Someone will have to tell him: “For once in your life, Mr President, show some regard for something other than your greed and vanity, and resign.”
Adria McDowell
@Waspuppet: I’m at least equally confident that last night’s transgender military ban was because he was pissed off and needed to kick someone.”
This stupidity again?
satby
@Amir Khalid: but nobody is the boss of him, so he’ll be dragged out kicking and screaming.
Amir Khalid
@Baud:
Apparently, President Toddler doesn’t know that the rules say he can’t have one. Someone should tell him, “Let me put it this way, Mr. President: you can’t always get what you want.”
NorthLeft12
The story about the renaming of the wilderness park really shows the GOP in all their glory; petty, incompetent, immature, hateful, disorganized, and just plain stupid.
And this story did not include the Deadbeat-in-Chief.
NotMax
@Amir Khalid
“No, Trelane.”
Amir Khalid
@satby:
Alas, yes he will.
Amir Khalid
@condorcet runner-up:
I agree.
Baud
@NorthLeft12:
I now wish we could rename the state of Idaho as Cecil D. Andrus.
Baud
@satby:
And the people will be laughing and cheering.
OzarkHillbilly
@NorthLeft12: SSDD
Frankensteinbeck
@condorcet runner-up:
Liberal marches are getting real coverage? And not in a ‘Those blackity blacks will riot any minute now!’ way? Okay, THIS is Bizarro World.
Elizabelle
How was it the Iraqis were supposed to greet us? In neocon fever dreams? That will be us, once we roust Trump from the WH. They don’t keep it, either. Burn them all down.
tybee
@OzarkHillbilly:
single sided, double density
Amir Khalid
@Baud:
Sorry, but I have to disagree. You know how a parent can feel like crap when they’ve had to discipline a child? That is how I think it will feel for Americans when Trump is finally removed.
Baud
@Amir Khalid: We need to test the hypothesis.
Greg in PDX
He IS helpless because he is too stupid to think for himself. The gun nuts are beside themselves this morning. “How dare these kids…..blah blah blah blah” Same comments on every RWNJ site Guess guess what gun nuts? Most of America hates you right now.
Citizen_X
[eyeroll] Because why would an invasive species that affects multiple states be of any interest to the federal government, right? Next thing you know, they’ll be funding something called volcano monitoring or the like.
This used to be anodyne, albeit needed, stuff that was put into spending bills, now it’s treated as something frivolous. I know, the fucking Tea Party, but the national press doesn’t have to go along with it.
Starfish
So we are in Atlanta, and Pence was here creating traffic yesterday. I don’t think the local Pence protesters dress like handmaids. More theatrics please. My spouse sat next to someone who was sad that Trump signed the spending bill. When he learned spouse was a liberal, he decided spouse must be happy with Trump’s spending.
Some of these people think that ISIS must be responsible for the dangers on their foreign travels to nearby islands. Why are they going to Jamaica if they are so afraid of people?
Baud
@Citizen_X: They’re going to shoot the carp?
Gin & Tonic
[CHECKS CALENDAR] It’s March 24. The mid-term elections are November 6.
[DEVELOPS CUNNING PLAN] On Monday, I’ll go to my boss and say “You know that project that’s due at the end of April? I’ve decided that’s the last major project I’m going to complete this year.”
Baud
@Gin & Tonic: Unless your boss hired you because you hate dark skinned people, it probably won’t work.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: And waiting, with buckets of tar, bags of feathers, and a pole.
Matt McIrvin
@Amir Khalid: The thing is, in numerical terms, Trump is not that unpopular. The Republicans are still sticking with him, for the most part, in a way that they didn’t stick with Nixon or Bush. His public approval has actually risen to the point where he’s only a couple points below where Obama was for long stretches of his administration.
But the disapproval from our side is intense, like nothing we’ve seen really in my lifetime.
I don’t think it’s going to be that sweet because we’re going to be pitted against one another, sibling against sibling, neighbor against neighbor. And it’s already violent to some degree–hate crimes are way, way up. A lot more people are going to get killed before this is over.
Brad the Impala
Keeping with today’s gun theme: https://rewire.news/article/2018/03/05/buying-gun-like-getting-abortion
(Apologies if this has already been posted.)
Elizabelle
@Amir Khalid: disagree. It’s gonna be throwing the imposter off the throne.
No doubt Mrs. Greenspan and other MSM will be sad. Because they’re so serious.
debbie
I don’t care how they did it, but I’m happy knowing Trump signed Russian sanctions into law. He owns this now! //
debbie
@Matt McIrvin:
He’s still around 40%, and I can’t imagine the markets’ recent frenzies won’t have an impact on lowering it even further.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
I see that Timmy Cardinal Dolan has been running his mouth about Democrats again. Benedict’s appointees have been uniformly bad.
Hopefully, this Pope will reassign him to run a nice archival office in the basement of the Vatican.
debbie
@NorthLeft12:
How could it? Trump couldn’t find Idaho with a map.
Elmo
@Matt McIrvin: Sibling against sibling. I haven’t spoken to my brother since he put “Proud Deplorable” as his Facebook avatar. Even if that changes someday, the relationship will never be the same.
And I’m okay with that.
debbie
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
I can’t find a non-RWNJ news source for this story, which tells me all I need to know.
David Evans
“Mercurial president”? Mercury was fast-moving, slim and had winged feet. I think not.
On the other hand, mercury the chemical element is toxic. Maybe that’s it.
debbie
@Elmo:
I’m the same way with my family members. The only way they will ever get the stink of Trump off them will be to admit they were wrong to begin with. I doubt that will ever happen.
cosima
@Amir Khalid: When your my kids need punishing *I* don’t feel bad, but they do. When they don’t need it & I get shouty for no good reason I feel bad and they don’t. If & when we get the OFC out of the office I will be ecstatic.
Schlemazel
Ad at the top of my page is for mommies boy who will be holding a rally here Wednesday titled “Tax cuts to make America great again”
After I stopped vomiting I was pleased to know they are wasting money on mistargeted ads.
BruceFromOhio
Enjoying breakfast and coffee with MrsFromOhio on this cold but sunny morning before we march, then going to look at used cars for one of the offspring, while resisting the temptation to over-self-medicate for the pain of watching the endless cluster fuck of criminal OFC stupidity and its fervent supporters.
May Gaia save us all, and bless our lands, our loves, and our lives.
Immanentize
@Matt McIrvin:
I know that this is your “thing” — OMG, the polls! Like Obama! We’re Doomed (implied).
But you scratch the surface of the underlying polls and you see Survey Monkey is putting out a poll a week that is pushing the whole number up. Plus outliers like icitizen(?) Have recently polled the President at 50?
I am not trying to unskew the polls, I’m just saying that a 40% approval this far from a midterm election (the ads haven’t heated up) in which Trump opposition will play heavily is in no way good news for DJ Trump. Best to ignore them until 2019. Late 2019. Probably more like mid 2020.
Another Scott
‘morning All.
I had ~ 75% planned to be at the DC march today, but my “cold” still has me mostly home-bound. :-( I’ll be there in spirit and will try to watch the C-Span coverage starting 10AM EDT.
The organizers are planning for 500,000 people. Here’s hoping they are pleasantly surprised.
I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the coverage. Usually on big marches, there might be mention in the news the night before, but often not that. Certainly not days before. This MFOL has been getting coverage all week around here. It’s the top of the news on the BBC right now…
Solidarity! Keep up the good work! It will be a long struggle.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ken
@Amir Khalid:
“And I am Marie of Roumania”, as Ms. Parker said.
Matt McIrvin
@debbie: I don’t see any way he doesn’t start a major war. Going by previous experience, that will give him a boost in the polls… for several months. Maybe just enough to get him in net-positive territory.
But it won’t last, so whatever electoral effect it has will depend entirely on timing.
Immanentize
@Schlemazel:
Mine is an offer to get a free official Alaska vacation guide. I like mine better!
hueyplong
“For once in your life, Mr President, show some regard for something other than your greed and vanity, and resign.”
Reading that calls to mind Leo Amery, calling for Neville Chamberlain’s resignation in 1940, supposedly by way of quoting Cromwell’s slam on the Long Parliament:
“You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.”
Dotard had been in place too long as of the moment he hit send on his first tweet about inauguration crowd size.
OzarkHillbilly
@Matt McIrvin:
I don’t believeit will have any effect whatsoever except to further deepen the already existing divides in America. The trumpsters will think the dumpster fire is a great place to warm their old bones, the lefties will see it for the tailest of tails wagging the doggiest of dogs, and those in the middle will know it for the bullshit it is and will “support the troops” by either silently assenting or silently dissenting, but either way they’ll know it’s bullshit.
Frankensteinbeck
@Matt McIrvin:
I see a very easy way he doesn’t. He’s a total chickenshit coward. He’s been posturing in every direction his entire presidency, and done absolutely jack shit about it. He’s not even slightly strategic, and only cares about what he sees said about him on TV at this very moment, so he won’t get any more urgent to. He doesn’t care at all about the rest of the GOP, so he’s not going to do it to help them.
OzarkHillbilly
And with that I have to get ready for a cold rainy day in downtown STL. Stay safe all.
Ken
@Gin & Tonic: It makes sense if you’re a Republican in Congress. It’s becoming increasingly obvious that people loathe your party’s policies*. The government won’t shut down until after the midterms. So don’t touch anything and hope to keep your seat in the midterms.
Then, if one (or both, dare I hope) chambers flip, you’ve still got the lame duck session to try to push things through. The flaw in that cunning plan is that Trump may decide to take all of November and December off, and won’t be around to sign the bills.
* The policies may poll well, but only until there’s any chance they will be enacted – then everyone says “wait a minute, you were serious? No way.”
Zinsky
Think of the positive things we could do in this country with half of the money going to the grossly bloated Pentagon! And we wouldn’t be one iota less safe, despite what Hawks and war-mongers like John Bolton or Donald Trump might say!
$350 billion squandered on worthless weapons systems like the F-35 fighter would put a new, state-of-the-art high school and hospital in every major city and town in the United States and be a significant down payment on infrastructure upgrades and a “smart grid”. Our futures are being stolen from us by the Pentagon and the war-mongers and death-lovers who support that hideous institution!
Matt McIrvin
@Immanentize: The big pro-Trump outlier is Rasmussen. ICITIZEN was a truly wacky anti-Trump outlier that stopped putting out numbers a while ago.
I doubt Trump is ever going to be a truly popular President. I am alarmed that a large fraction of the US population seems to be training itself to approve of whatever he does even as he gradually gets more and more unhinged and extreme. He’s not pivoting–they’re pivoting to him. And I am concerned about what these people might be capable of doing, because there are a hundred million of them.
I don’t think any plausible series of events short of him dying is capable of removing Trump from office, and I don’t think beating him in 2020 is going to be a cakewalk any more than it was in 2016. On the one hand, no sensible-centrist type is going to be able to convince themselves to give him another chance. On the other hand, he’s got the advantage of incumbency and the ability to drive events. And I don’t see the Democrats getting on the same page very easily, once this all becomes about some presidential candidate–the same forces that split us apart in 2016 are already operating, at least in the online peanut gallery.
Matt McIrvin
@Amir Khalid: To be fair, literally every President wants a line-item veto on spending bills. It’s a thing you want when you’re the President. Clinton briefly had one. But the courts struck it down.
Frankensteinbeck
@Matt McIrvin:
They are single issue racism voters. If you’re a racist, Trump is the best president in living memory. Yes, they make up more than a third of the US population.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
We’re in the middle of a blizzard. I’m thinking today’s march isn’t going to happen here.
NotMax
@Zinsky
Ike, 1953:
Ike, 1961 (the “military-industrial complex” portion of his farewell address).
Emma
Deleted because I was being sour and snippy.
The Simp in the Suit
@NorthLeft12: I don’t know, I was pretty pissed off then the assholes named Washington National after Reagan, who was possibly the worst president we’ve ever had wrt the safety of our national airspace.
bemused
Great march signs:
Books not bullets.
The uterus is more regulated than guns.
Only thing easier to buy than a gun is a GOP candidate.
Some people only dream of meeting their heroes. I teach mine.
debbie
@bemused:
I love that third one! Perfect for a t-shirt!
Aimai
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): at a coffee shop waiting for the boston march. Im underdressed and forgot my wallet.
Amir Khalid
@cosima:
The removal of Trump from the Oval Office will be unprecedented, if it happens; I stand by my belief that America cannot hope to undergo the process without some national trauma. Trump will fight very dirty not to suffer that fate. He will sow division, he will incite his supporters, he will harm anyone within reach of his spite, he will sully the office and traumatise the nation even more as he fights to hang on. You won’t feel guilty about removing him, and of course you shouldn’t. But once he is gone, undoing his damage will be another very big job. America will suffer a Trump hangover for a long while, of that I am unfortunately convinced.
Baud
I’m here at the March for our Wives but I have yet to meet a single bigamist. So odd.
hedgehog mobile
Good morning jackals. Headed to the Denver march with my fellow Episcopalians. We will be led by the yoots with us olds following. Be safe out there all! (waves to the Denver contingent).
FlyingToaster (Tablet)
@Schlemazel: At the top of mine is an ad for packaged, pre-made hummus. Herr Doctor makes hummus weekly.
I’m hoping to see ads from Charlie Baker someday; it would cap the ongoing mistargeting of this small appliance.
— live from the hallway waiting for the next music class.
condorcet runner-up
@Frankensteinbeck: weird, right?
Thoughtful David
On our way to the rally in DC. Will get off metro at Foggy Bottom and hoof it the rest of the way
No Drought No More
“..because his handlers told him no signing, no golfing”.
Nah. Trump’s one and only “handler” is a sick voice. It has always lived between his ears, and his ears alone, and it’s now screaming in terror and dread at having been busted for treason. The voice knows its suffering will now never end- ever- and it’s also screaming at Trump for what he’s done to his family, and that its real agony has scarcely begun..
rikyrah
@Quinerly:
Morning to Poco and the tribe ??
Brachiator
@Frankensteinbeck:
Congress left for their spring break. They had too many drunken pool parties to attend to, so they never took Trump seriously.
But I think that Trump announced his transgender military ban on Friday because he needs to stroke his bruised ego by hurting somebody.
He may not think beyond his immediate desires, but he keeps coming back to his pet agenda items.
Ruckus
@Amir Khalid:
No, no it won’t. First he’s not anyone’s child, even though he acts like a rotten 4 yr old. Second, there will be a party to end all parties to celebrate when he leaves. You won’t even need any type of sound system to hear it where you live.
germy
@Brachiator:
Do they spend spring break begging for donors’ money, or do they do that on the taxpayer’s time?
Lyrebird
Wrong thread I guess,
but since it looks like I’ll miss the march with a coughing child,
I just threw some coppers in their basket.
Thanks for the thread below with the vets’ video,
which was awesome.
Immanentize
@germy:
Yes.
SATSQ
Baud
@germy: Yes.
Brachiator
@Baud:
Look for the Utah Mormon group.
germy
Craigslist removed their personal ads because of a new law from Congress holding websites responsible for crimes committed by people advertising on personals. (the odious “rants & raves” still exists, though.)
But can a guns store be held liable when a gun buyer massacres a crowd of people?
germy
@Immanentize:
Was the question so stupid? I thought they gave speeches in front of millionaires on their spring break.
I thought the drunken pool parties were an opportunity to pick up donations (the donors get drunk, the politicians sip seltzer)
Isn’t their motto “Always Be Closing” ?
Brachiator
@germy:
Yes.
Also, it’s a two week spring break. Plenty of time to collect what I call “bags of money” from their plutocrat paymasters and to have a few meetings with constituents. Or opportunities to avoid unhappy voters. It’s a traditional spring ritual for our Congress critters.
germy
The counter protest today is called “March For Our Guns”
No kidding.
Lyrebird
@germy: Honest of them!
Baud
@germy: March for Our Wives would have worked for that too.
Immanentize
@germy:
No, it wasn’t a stupid question — but it was a simple answer. Congress critters fundraise all day every day when they have any time to do so. I’m sure you have heard of the phone pens that are set up near the capital because Congresswomen/men cannot use their official spaces or resources for fundraising. Many days a week, especially near the end of reporting quarters, our reps will speed walk to the phone pens and spend half an hour or more making fundraising calls. It’s kinda sad and bad for all of us –The job of a Congress person is to raise money for themselves and the party.
ETA. As you know, SATSQ — Snappy Answers to Stupid Questions — was invented at MAD magazine when snappy meant what snarky does today. It was always more about the answer than the question
Brachiator
@Matt McIrvin:
It still amazes me that reporters, pundits and others insist on trying to view Trump as a traditional politician. He is not a strong political figure, but he is cunning and egotistical. And he bent the Republicans to his will from the moment he entered the primary.
For example, he spoke I’ll about other Republicans and even refused to promise that he would support the GOP nominee if he didn’t win. But even these small bits of defiance fired up the suckers that voted for him.
And today, even when he yields to Congress he has to make noises that signals his supporters that he is still their racist, extremist Big Daddy.
germy
@NotMax:
Nice of him to say all that stuff after he was on his way out the door. It reminds me of all the retiring current GOPers who are now “emboldened” to criticize the 45 administration.
Would have been nicer if Ike had tried to do something about the MIC while he was still in a position of power.
d58826
I would expand that to include so many of the non-vet boomer generation that marched in the streets in the 60’s for a better world. They have totally betrayed what they claimed they were marching for in the 60’s. As I watch the young people marching today I hope that 40 years from now they can maintain the idealism they they show today.
A 72 year old boomer ashamed of my generation.
I have hope for the future as I watch these bright articulate smart young people on AM Joy.
Then I see on twitter that the piece of protoplasm occupying the white house wants to limit the rights of trans-patriots from serving their country. He doesn’t even qualify as a POS.
Redshift
If anyone’s marching in DC, my volunteer station is at 7th and D St NW. Say hi if you’re passing by!
germy
@d58826:
You really think those same long-haired boomers who marched in the ’60s and got beaten and shot at, suddenly changed their minds? Or maybe the other boomers, the ones with crewcuts in the ’60s who “hated the hippies” are the ones you’re talking about.
Okay, Jerry Rubin later became a yuppie instead of a yippie, but he was always an opportunistic asshole. No surprise there. But Abbie Hoffman stayed true to the cause to the end, as did all the old dudes with gray ponytails and their wives I see in Woodstock. No betrayal.
Waratah
Saw a sign in photo at cnn
The only thing easier to buy in the USA than a gun is a Republican.
raven
@d58826: What about the vets who did the same?
OK I went back a read your reply. There were plenty of my generation on the other side, the Great Silent Majority the was called.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Amir Khalid:
Yes. And immediately right wingers everywhere will insist that Trump was never a Conservative to begin with.
Immanentize
@raven:
It’s a mystery to me, really. Were they just going along with the crowd during Vietnam? Did they change so much? Do they think it is all different because they are not personally impacted? I really don’t get it.
In the criminal defense world, same thing. Some of the old luminaries are like Dershowitz — fighters for freedoms in their youth turned absolutely batshit crazy racist/fascists in their dotage.
Dave
@germy: Yep if you look the numbers the marching boomers were always the minority; a large minority to be sure but a minority. I’m sure some did give up or fatally compromise their values but they didn’t have as much weight as we perceive. Millenials and younger however do appear to have the numbers even if white guys like myself remain by and large….. suboptimal in our political judgement. Question I have is will the weight of these generations have impact in time to matter and will they be allowed to have that impact. I’m reasonably optimistic that answer is yes but only reasonably so.
Aimai
@germy: yes saw the assholes (50?) marching with their gadsden flags and shouting “black guns matter” I shit you not.
Immanentize
@germy:
I think you are right — there are always reactionaries in every generation who generally outnumber the dissidents (at first). But it is the shocking ‘betrayals’ as you say that are so hard to fathom. Those guys I just don’t get.
d58826
@raven: may well be true that the activists are today’s old liberals and the rest are the RWNJ’s. And even in the 60’s there were more of them than there were activists. The activist segment just seemed larger because they made the news
Aimai
I’m 57, I have been marching since I was seven? My pardnts took me to my first protests and now I march with my daughter.
chris
Watching on CSPAN and with y’all in spirit. Looks to be a huge turnout in DC.
Going to town for supplies soon. 99.999% sure I will not be shot at because it is illegal for civilians to carry loaded firearms in the public square in Canada. I hope that all of you can say the same soon.
Immanentize
@Dave:
OK. That’s it!! I finally have my sign for the next March for our lives — which is next month to commemorate (if that is the right word) Columbine.
“They’ve got the guns but we’ve got the numbers”
germy
@Aimai: There’s an asshole who lives on my street who always displayed a gadsden flag on his front lawn. The day that guy and girl killed a cop and draped the flag over his body, the flag came down. I haven’t seen it since. I’m sure his beliefs are the same, he’s probably just too embarrassed to be associated with cop killers.
But these marchers you mentioned with the flag, I guess they have short memories. Or just don’t give a shit.
BC in Illinois
@d58826:
@germy:
All generalizations are untrue.
There are boomer-aged “Vets against Trump.” There are former hippies who have sold out. There are former people-on-the-sidelines-then who are in the streets today. Hell, 46 years ago this summer, I was in the Navy at Bethesda MD, going with my wife to anti-war demonstrations at the Capital (not in uniform, but the haircut might have been a give-away). My knowledge of these various types is anecdotal, but they’re all there. The veterans in my family (and their spouses) are the most anti-Trump of my circle.
It is shameful that so many white boomers are the base of the Trump bloc, but they’ll be dying out. We need to work at supporting the up=and-coming generations, to counter the racism, white supremacy, and self-serving attitudes that exist there as well. These things will not go away without work. When Trump is gone, there will be lots of work to do . . . to make a more perfect union, establish justice, etc.
“There’s just so much to UNDO!” – – Mrs. BC
germy
@Immanentize:
I’m saying there are less betrayals than assumed. Just the young republicans from the 1960s asserting themselves over the hippies who marched and who still care.
raven
@d58826: Yup, we were some of the first to manipulate the media. It enraged the “right” like Obama making fun of numbnuts did.
Another Scott
Looks like a great crowd in DC.
On C-Span, they just showed a young girl with her sign, and a couple of people walking by with dayglow yellow-green shirts saying “Register to Vote with Me”.
Good, good.
The crowd is still building.
Cheers,
Scott.
MomSense
Just came back from the march. There were several thousand of us. The students were amazing. Lots of great signs and enthusiastic people.
raven
@BC in Illinois: I’m about to don my jungle fatigues and Nam Vet hat and go down an support the kids.
Uncle Cosmo
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Give him Bernie Law’s old flat in St John’s Lateran. And an ankle bracelet to keep him from going “off the dispensation.”
Irish as a group would be the worst bigots in the USA were it not for the paesans with whom I share a heritage. Kinda like Alabama being grateful for Mississippi when the quality-of-life rankings come out….
germy
@BC in Illinois:
And they’re being replaced by young people who flash the “OK” sign and post racist shit on twitter. And march with tiki torches. Some of them pretended to be Bernie supporters just to ratfuck the election. Some of them love drumpf and some of them hate him (because he doesn’t go far enough) They’re all over the place.
Waiting for things to improve after a specific older generation “dies out” will be disappointing.
Vhh
@Amir Khalid: He won’t listen until he is threatened with bankruptcy, prison, or both.
lamh36
Good morning BJ!
Some movie news
Frankensteinbeck
@Brachiator:
I agree that because he resents being forced to surrender publicly, he may have dug out his list of minorities to hurt and kicked one. It requires no electoral strategy, and does not make him face the risk or pushback of starting a war.
@germy:
I think it would be interesting to have numbers tracking what proportion of hippies turned conservative and how many stayed liberal. As far as I know, we only have empty speculation based on each person’s biases. Could be huge, could be insignificantly tiny.
My pet theory from talking to ex-hippies is that there were two waves, original hippies and folks jumping on the bandwagon for the sex, drugs, and rock-and-roll. The former mostly stayed liberal, the latter were selfish and just waiting to turn conservative. But hey, that’s a theory no more true than the others without numbers.
Another Scott
@germy: Yup.
Assuming that (far too many) people’s political views will not get more reactionary over time is a bad assumption.
We have to work for the future we want, not just assume it will show up eventually.
Cheers,
Scott.
d58826
@Another Scott: The sign I liked was captioned – ‘only thing that won’t kill you in Australia’ It had a great white, crocodile and other dangerous wildlife around the edges and an AR15 highlighted in the center.
Lyrebird
@BC in Illinois:
@raven:
ROCK ON, Y’ALL! The Mrs.-es, too!
Frankensteinbeck
@germy:
Nothing excuses sitting on our asses. We must vote, and make sure others vote.
That said, there is a replacement effect going on, but only because the younger generation is browner. Whites aren’t varying much in racism at any age group.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@BC in Illinois:
Humans are extraordinary in their capacity to be inhumane. That capacity would seem to appear across all spectra of our species. To wit, see what Europeans did to native populations and those they colonialized, what the Japanese did to Koreans, what the Hutu did to the Tutsi, what many have done to Jews (and what they’ve done to Palestinians), and so forth.
We have an astonishing ability to hate “others” for their color, religion, sexual orientation, clothing choices, musical preferences, etc.
We are Sneetches, plain and star-bellied.
germy
@Frankensteinbeck:
Yes, I’ve read stories of suburban high school kids yelling racist chants at visiting teams from city schools. Will the racist kids grow up and learn the error of their ways? Maybe some of them will. Probably many of them won’t.
BellyCat
@d58826:
To think The Klinger Strategy, from M*A*S*H, is alive and well now as an exit strategy for those looking to escape our next absurd military kerfuffle!
MomSense
@raven:
Wooo hooo!
JDM
Butthurt. Butthurt Mining is a critical part of the Wingnut economy. It is estimated that up to 27% of energy use in the average wingnut household is used for manufacturing and storing Butthurt.
Steeplejack
Would it kill someone to put up an open thread for the March for Our Lives? No need for a fancy live feed or anything, just a spot for comments and observations.
Another Scott
The speech from the young man from Chicago, Trevon Bosley, was very good. I very much like that they’re broadening the topic from mass shootings at schools to “everyday shootings”.
Cheers,
Scott.
chris
Yes, this!
Betsy DeVos is
the only thing
that should be
fired inside
a school
BC in Illinois
@raven:
The only time I put on my “Veteran” cap with the Navy anchor, is for a street protest. I don’t tend to identify myself in public as a veteran; it seems unseemly. I spent 7/8 of my time in Bethesda MD (1/8 in Great Lakes IL). But I think that wearing the cap where people may not expect it, kind of sends a message I like. (And at an anti-Ann Wagner* rally, it brought together a lot of USN and USMC types.)
*Ann Wagner – R – St Louis Co, MO, safe Republican vote, “A” rating from NRA
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Steeplejack:
Pretty powerful, isn’t it?
Immanentize
@germy:
I think it is a school to school question, but it seems like K-8 (?) is teaching more about the positives of diversity, but much less about the negatives of prejudice and bigotry and racisism. The latter was a staple diet in my mid-60’s education feed. Maybe inclusion (carrot) will prove a better model than repulsion at racism (stick). I dunno, but it seems that the two don’t appear anywhere much at the same time.
PS Feminism was way on the back burner of my early education and was much more a question of modeling (teachers almost all women, mothers at home = women as primary influencers but not rewarded around that part of my “kid’s life;” men got the status for sure).
Kathleen
@Uncle Cosmo: I don’t know – I think the Irish are pretty bad. And I’m descended from Irish. I blame the Catholic Church but that’s a whole other rant.
PAM Dirac
The kids are shrill and I am loving it.
Old Dan and Little Anne
2 gun humping guys I know from college have decided to turn all their ire against David Hogg from Parkland. They posted a highly edited interview of him dropping f bombs repeatedly. Oh my stars and garters. Both marines as well.
Another Scott
@Old Dan and Little Anne: It’s so pathetic that so many people feel the need to distort someone’s words to make a point. If they would think about it just a tiny bit they would recognize the vacuousness of their own position if it can only be supported by a strawman.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
Someone tell Capt. Mnemo that LMM is singing now.
Cheers,
Scott.
J R in WV
@BC in Illinois:
Where do you all get those “Veteran” Navy ball caps? I would like to have one for political troubles moments, like getting stopped by a cop./s
Actually I wouldn’t mind having one for my ship, AS-16, but they don’t exist, as it wasn’t a famous battle-wagon like Iowa or bird-farm like Enterprise. Sub tenders don’t get any love! And that’s OK, really…
Brachiator
Looking at the Guardian, some photos from the protests. One woman carrying a sign that knocked me out. It said, simply,
Matt McIrvin
@Immanentize: I think a lot of them had a vision of liberation that was very white- or man-centric and couldn’t deal with it not being that way. Some were driven around the bend by 9/11 and see Muslim immigrants mostly as threats to liberalism.
Chyron HR
@Another Scott:
I wasn’t even aware that Mueller had subpoenaed him.
Immanentize
@Matt McIrvin: @Matt McIrvin:
That’s Dersh, but he was trending in that direction before 9/11
Brachiator
@Frankensteinbeck:
The hippie movement is like the French Resistance. Over-romanticized, and its membership and influence exaggerated. A lot of real hippies I knew were drugged up, apathetic and apolitical. But their apathy enraged conservatives as much as did the work of those who were politically engaged.
On the other hand, I knew people who became politically engaged and who have remained so all their lives. They never became complacent or conservative or turned their backs on the causes that they believed in. They haven’t always won, but they were always down for a good fight.
Same as with this new generation, bless ’em.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@BC in Illinois:
I’ve been thinking about that too, and wondering if somebody is keeping a list. I was told recently by someone that there is at least one writer or blogger who is in fact keeping such a list, of damage that will need to be undone. But I can’t remember the name and various attempts at Google search have failed.
Does anyone know of anyone who is keeping track? Building the eventual Democratic to-do list?
patrick II
@Immanentize:
Distrust of government is often the theme that carries through from the extreme left to right of the 60’s. We were told by the liberal president we would get out of Vietnam — and he lied. We were told by Nixon that he had a secret plan to get out of Vietnam — and he lied. Since then the right has taken advantage of that distrust with their “small government”, “keep the government out of your business”, and for those who only learned from both sides that government can’t be trusted that strikes home.\
No Drought No More
“Robert A. Caro, the author best known for his award-winning multi-volume biography of Lyndon B. Johnson, will release his next project exclusively in an audio format, the Associated Press reports”.
On a whim, I just googled to see if the release date for Caro’s final volume had been announced. That information is nearly a year old, and it stinks. I can listen to an audio book for only so long before I wonder what I’m going to eat for supper that night, or if a noise I just heard was the refrigerator or another appliance, or where I left that thing-a-majig I was looking for earlier in the day… and by the time I snap out of it, three paragraphs have been read, and it’s suddenly as if someone is speaking without any context being understood by me. Maybe if I listened to it in a isolation tank, with cucumber slices over my eyes, it might work. But that’s what it would take.
I’ll tell you what I think: I think Caro finished that last volume years ago, and he’s just fuckin’ with us now…
Old Dan and Little Anne
@Another Scott: Yup. One of them I would argue with once in awhile but I quit that years ago. He is an amazing douche bag..
sukabi
@JDM: it’s their currency of choice.
Mike J
@J R in WV: http://www.militarygifts.com/Auxiliary
J R in WV
@Mike J:
Thanks. I wonder if I could get a peace symbol where the ship’s outline goes? I kid. . . a little. Or just embroider it myself…
Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot
Lard-ass fucking coward of a malicious buffoon, but we all here know that. To his legions of fascist supporters (85% of rank and file Republicans, fer chrissake), though, any and all criticism of their “hero” (as rightwingers I know call him) is “fake news” (which term is a prime example of their well-known proclivity for projection, of course).
Vile sack of shit, he can’t shuffle off his disgusting and corpulent mortal coil soon enough (today would be good). He is the single worst person of any significant political power in our nation’s entire history, bar none, whatever the ultimate effects of his mis-rule end up being. John C. Calhoun, James Buchanan, Richard Nixon, hell, even Dick Cheney or anyone else who could be mentioned. Trump’s on a whole different level of despicableness as a person.
raven
@BC in Illinois: I think it is valuable to go to events like this in my shit. I served in Vietnam and Korea and I wanted to support these kids AS a vet.
raven
@J R in WV: CafePress – USS Howard W. Gilmore (AS 16) – Baseball Hat, Black Cap
raven
@Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot: And those are his good points!
Uncle Cosmo
@No Drought No More: I would presume “next project” refers to whatever Caro’s going to put out next after The Years of Lyndon Johnson, which is “the current project”. My guess is he’s at the very least about to finish the first draft of the final volume of TYoLJ, if not already correcting the galleys, & it will be released (in deadtree format among, presumably, others) in the next 18 months or so. I certainly hope so – I have all the volumes so far, in hardback, & I’m hoping to complete the set while I still have eyesight & brain function enough to appreciate it.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@germy: #notallboomers
Ruckus
@J R in WV:
Every VA facility that I’ve been in has a store of some sort to sell hats, shirts, etc. Some of the clinics have kiosks that they set up on busy days. The big places like hospitals have pretty good sized stores. When I’m at the VA I see a lot of guys, probably 1/3 at least wear some sort of memorabilia.
Ruckus
@Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot:
This is it in a nutshell. Many politicians have been horrible people but drumpf is horrible in ways that are barely explainable and even less understandable than the rest of them. Put together.
Kayla Rudbek
@Elmo: and child versus parent as well. I called my parents last night and my dad wound up going on a rant about the March For Our Lives. I’m seriously wondering if I should try to get my mother out of there. (I’ve already informed them a long time ago that they are going to separate nursing homes, and if I’m in charge of making the funeral arrangements, I will bury them separately as well)
Chet Murthy
@Amir Khalid: Beg to differ,man. There’ll be street parties in every city. I was in downtown SF on election night 2008, and right after Obama’s victory speech I headed home. It was pandemonium, with people giving random others hugs, dancing in the streets, etc. It’ll be like that again. B/c that night, it was “our long national nightmare is finally at an end”.
Kayla Rudbek
@Immanentize: lead exposure, dementia?