There Were Incidents and Accidents

Let it not be lost on this day of sturm und drang that the Republican led investigation into Russian interference yesterday was canned. “Nothing to see here! Move along!”

You can bet that this investigation will be reopened once the house flips. How robust that investigation will be hinges upon filling those seats with more and better democrats.

So let’s see if we can get to 50k with the power of collective action! What we’ve got here is the fund that’s split between all eventual Democratic nominees in House districts currently held by Republicans.

Goal Thermometer






215 replies
  1. 1
    chopper says:

    any info on PA-18? hear turnout’s pretty heavy.

  2. 2
    Kay says:

    Republicans have completely discredited congressional investigations and hearings. One more tool in the toolbox they destroyed.

    It’s like they want Congress to be irrelevant. It’s easier for them.

  3. 3
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    It’s like they want Congress to be irrelevant.

    Like?

    Its preemptive action to prevent punishment.

    Almost admirable, in a sickening sort of way.

  4. 4
    TenguPhule says:

    FTFNYT: “Trump blames Obama era rules meant to address racial disparities in school discipline for school shootings”

  5. 5
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: Yes, they have, and they really did it during PBO’s tenure, with the endless Benghazi screech-fest, where the new SoS was a leading screecher. Paid off too, since that’s how they discovered the private server that helped the media discredit Clinton in the face of the Trump scandal fire hose (campaign edition).

    But the rollup of the investigation into Trump-Russia is especially jarring since they know Mueller’s investigation rolls on, with tons of guilty pleas already gained from Trump officials. Is it desperation of chutzpah? Both? I don’t know.

  6. 6
    WaterGirl says:

    @Kay: I have hope that we can win the House in November and restore integrity to congressional investigations and hearings.

    But if we don’t win the House in November, I think it will be as you say: Republicans will have completely discredited congressional investigations and hearings. If that happens, I’m not sure I see a way to return from the abyss.

    Already, though Republicans have sent a clear message to the agencies they have oversight for: We cannot be trusted with information, and we can’t be trusted with information when we do get it.

    Please please please let us win today in PA. I could sure use a boost of hope right now.

  7. 7
    Amir Khalid says:

    If you’ll be my bodyguard, I can be your long-lost pal
    I can call you Betty, and Betty when you call me, you can call me Al

    Catchy little tune.

  8. 8
    Kay says:

    Imagine doing all that work to get elected, have all that power under the constitution and just use your office to become clownish political operatives for Donald Trump.

    What a waste of time and money. No wonder the Trump witnesses thought they were a joke. They are a joke. People just go in there and lie their asses off an nothing happens, because at this point everyone knows it’s elaborate play-acting. That’s if they even bother to show up.

  9. 9
    WaterGirl says:

    @Betty Cracker: Reading your comment right after posting mine below, I see that I have a more positive view than you do. Desperately hoping that my optimism isn’t totally unfounded.

  10. 10
    Yutsano says:

    Paul Simon eh? Thanks for the endless earworm.

  11. 11

    @Betty Cracker: They’re like dogs. They live in the current moment only. What Mueller finds is a problem for another day.

  12. 12
    low-tech cyclist says:

    Don’t want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard

  13. 13
    WaterGirl says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): How dare you slander dogs like that! :-)

  14. 14
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Heh. The other day someone said trump has the awareness of a goldfish

  15. 15
    MomSense says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Too catchy. I can’t get it out of my head.

  16. 16
    Kay says:

    @WaterGirl:

    They destroyed impeachment. It’s discredited now. Now they’ve destroyed this check and balance.

    Congressional hearings used to actually mean something- they were televised and people watched. Now no one bothers. These people deliberately did not call people they were afraid might have information. Not that it matters! The witnesses lie under oath with absolute impunity anyway. You can lie right to their face. Doesn’t matter.

    It’s not good. It’s not a good idea to have executive branch police agencies as the only check, but what can you do? They HAVE all the power they need in the constitution. They simply decided to give it away. There’s no mechanism for ordering congress to perform oversight duties. The founders probably never imagined human beings would willingly and eagerly disclaim power.

  17. 17
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    they are traitors, Kay.

  18. 18
    germy says:

    Adam Schiff is coming after the Trump Organization for money laundering if Democrats take back the House. https://t.co/puNT5zEZhl pic.twitter.com/4uBwWakTOp— Sarah Reese Jones (@PoliticusSarah) March 13, 2018

  19. 19
    germy says:

    Whenever Secretary Tillerson’s successor goes into meetings with foreign leaders, his credibility will be diminished as someone who could be here today and gone tomorrow. https://t.co/DdyLCbpUiG— Nancy Pelosi (@NancyPelosi) March 13, 2018

  20. 20
    🌷 Martin says:

    I don’t find this stuff amusing any more.

  21. 21
    TenguPhule says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    They’re like dogs.

    You take that back!

    Rats, they’re norse rats.

    Dogs are friendly and loyal.

  22. 22
    EdTheRed says:

    I’d have gone with:
    Some people say a lie’s a lie’s a lie
    But I say why
    Why deny the obvious child?
    Why deny the obvious child?

  23. 23
    germy says:

    And I don’t know a soul who’s not been battered
    I don’t have a friend who feels at ease
    I don’t know a dream that’s not been shattered
    or driven to its knees
    But it’s all right, it’s all right
    We’ve lived so well so long
    Still, when I think of the road
    we’re traveling on
    I wonder what went wrong
    I can’t help it, I wonder what went wrong

  24. 24
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    I watched the Iran-Contra hearings. They were hugely informative. Do you know a single person who has followed the congressional investigation on Trump?

    They did this to themselves. They somehow managed to make themselves irrelevant. THat’s the part the founders didn’t predict, probably, because people usually hang on to power. They protect their turf. These people are like “oh, fuck it- I’ll just work for Trump, whatever”.

  25. 25
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Kay:

    There’s no mechanism for ordering congress to perform oversight duties

    The mechanism is voters.

  26. 26
    rikyrah says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Kay told us this yesterday.

  27. 27
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    They destroyed impeachment.

    What was shattered can be forged anew.

    There is yet time for Anduril to take the Dark Lord’s head. And those that follow him into treason ever so willingly.

  28. 28
    Jay S says:

    @Kay:

    Congressional hearings used to actually mean something-

    I am not sure I agree. The only exception I can think of might have been the Watergate hearings, and even there the action was with the special prosecutor and the courts. They have had the reputation of being dog and pony shows or show trials. Perhaps more blatantly now, but rarely more than publicity stunts in my recollection. Maybe I am forgetting something?

  29. 29
    germy says:

    Conor Lamb is so wholesomely handsome that when he campaigns door-to-door, he is apparently mistaken for a Jehovah’s Witness. When one resident tried to dismiss the assumed proselytizer by shouting, “I’m a Roman Catholic,” Lamb replied: “So am I.”

    (The Week Magazine)

  30. 30
    MomSense says:

    @Jay S:

    What about the Iran Contra hearings?

  31. 31
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    the new SoS

    I refuse to refer to him by the title until he has been confirmed and sworn in.

  32. 32
    Mnemosyne says:

    I’m not a huge Eddie Vedder fan, but I did like this live version of Tom Petty’s “The Waiting” with Petty on lead guitar.

    The waiting is the hardest part …

  33. 33
    germy says:

    Hope springs eternal.

    The instability of this administration in just about every area weakens America.

    If he’s confirmed, we hope that Mr. Pompeo will turn over a new leaf and will start toughening up our policies towards Russia and Putin.

    — Chuck Schumer (@SenSchumer) March 13, 2018

  34. 34

    In light of what the R congressional committee has done, Ds should stop cooperating with completely.

  35. 35
    ruemara says:

    @Kay: More people believe the GOP are traitors to america than believe that impeachment is nothing. Sorry, but for many, impeachment of everyone in power is the most attractive quality a candidate can have.

  36. 36
    Jay S says:

    @MomSense: Oliver North was given an immunity from prosecution that foiled a prosecution because of an Iran Contra hearing screw up. Yes we may have learned something but the net result was not necessarily more than what the press was getting.

  37. 37
    Kay says:

    @Jay S:

    I think they were informative. You saw which witnesses they called and listened to testimony. I completely understood Iran contra- I knew what was alleged and I could weigh credibility of witnesses. Now we have Mueller explaining this thing in a kind of narrative inside indictments. It’s like he’s taken this huge outsize role where he’s almost a public advocate as far as shedding light on what happened. The investigation process isn’t designed for that. It’s (rightly) shrouded in secrecy and 99% underground.

  38. 38
    Lapassionara says:

    When is the next march? I think we need to head to the streets.

  39. 39
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @germy: I wonder if that was written quickly and they meant Mormons. The Jehovah’s Witness who come to my door look like the kind of people who would bring Jello salad and dishes with mini-marshmallows to your cook-out. All very nice people, too, never overly persistent or pushy. I one read an article that if you say “I’m apostate”, they pretty much run away, but they’ve all been so pleasant I could never bring myself to conduct the experiment.

  40. 40
    germy says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I didn’t know Mormons went door to door.

    I’ve been visited by Witnesses, who apparently believe the way to paradise is in how many they can convert.

  41. 41
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    In some ways, I’m glad that the House ended its investigation, because I remember how the Iran/Contra hearings meant that North’s plea deal got screwed up and he ended up skating for everything he did. The hearings ended up interfering with the ongoing criminal case.

    So I’m good with Nunes closing up shop and Schiff re-opening for business next year.

  42. 42
    Kay says:

    @ruemara:

    I think once they made it a political weapon, with Clinton, it lost some power. To me, it’s like “break glass” because it’s a profound thing, removing an elected President. Once you use it in such a reckless manner it’s no longer as profound.

    It would have been one thing to “bring down” Clinton for the affair using persuasion, in the political arena. “Look what this guy did! Isn’t it outrageous? You should hate him and not elect Democrats!” But to try to REMOVE him for that? It cheapens it. The tools are specific. You don’t just reach for them willy-nilly and make all of them useless!

  43. 43
    Jay S says:

    @germy: We have had Mormons and Witnesses, as well as some bizarre goddess cult come by.

    ETA the Mormons dress is a giveaway. Always black suit white shirt and tie in any weather.

  44. 44
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Lapassionara:

    March 24th — the high school kids’ March for Our Lives.

    Mark your calendar.

  45. 45
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    Seeing as everyone is posting song lyrics I had a dream last night that the March For Our Lives folks chose John Farnham’s “You’re the Voice” as their theme song and when I woke up this morning and checked the lyrics I realized how spot on my dream had been.
    https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/johnfarnham/yourethevoice.html

    “how long can we look at each other down the barrel of a gun?”

  46. 46
    Yutsano says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Conor looks young but not THAT young. Mormon missionaries are almost all teenagers basically set out into the world to preach the words of Joseph Smith. A lot of them come back enlightened about the world they experienced. Which is why it’s weird that Utah and Idaho are so conservative.

  47. 47
    Kay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I know I harp on this and maybe it’s futile, maybe people wouldn’t care if they ever found out what happened, but shouldn’t THEY make that decision? Shouldn’t someone make an effort to explain this to them? We’re 2 years out and no one knows what happened in the 2016 election. Most people don’t even know what’s ALLEGED to have happened. Elections are theirs! They belong to voters! That’s their process and it’s the only one they get. It’s the only tool they have and it may be broken or compromised and no one will ever explain this to them?

  48. 48
    Mnemosyne says:

    @germy:

    Mormons go door-to-door A LOT. You will recognize them because it’s two white guys in their late teens or early 20s in short-sleeve white button-down shirts, black pants, and a tie. They tend to commute by bike around here, always wearing a helmet, of course.

  49. 49
    WaterGirl says:

    @Kay: I agree with what you’ve said.

    I have a question, though. Do you think they destroyed impeachment with Clinton, or they have destroyed it now by now using it even though it’s clearly warranted?

    @rikyrah: I agree that they are traitors, too. The ones who are actively conspiring and the ones that are looking past that as if it doesn’t matter.

  50. 50
    Kay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    We’re going with our youngest. I feel like they need numbers and really deserve turnout. It’s not easy to be that age and be so high profile. They took a risk. They get this savage mail and shit from gun nuts. It’s not all hearts and flowers.

  51. 51
    WaterGirl says:

    @germy: Am I the only one who wishes Adam Schiff had waited until after the PA polls close to say this?

  52. 52
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    I do want to know, but not in a way that allows the criminals to escape justice like they did with Iran/Contra. If it’s a choice between knowing what happened right now or sending the traitors to jail and finding out later, I’m good with waiting.

    I really think that the lack of consequences after Iran/Contra really emboldened the worst elements of the Republican Party, and the resulting lawlessness is what we’re seeing as a result. They need to be punished this time or else they’re just going to do it again.

  53. 53
    trollhattan says:

    @germy:
    Which is a REALLY WEIRD thing for a religion that believes exactly 144,000 get into the city of heaven to rule with Christ.

    “If you recruit me, who do I kick out of heaven?”

    We get 20 JWs for every Mormon pair. I think LSD has a better database.

  54. 54
    germy says:

    What’s the matter with Maine?

    Leslie Gibson, the GOP candidate who’s a lifetime member of the NRA and is running unopposed in Maine’s 57th District, apparently saw no problem at the time with publicly expressing these sentiments in a now-deleted Tweet. In response to an article that featured a photo of González (who is bisexual), Gibson wrote, “There is nothing about this skinhead lesbian that impresses me and there is nothing that she has to say unless you’re a frothing at the mouth moonbat.” He later suggested that she doesn’t count as a survivor because she was in a “different part of the school” than the 17 victims, the Daily Dot reports.

    Gibson also called survivor David Hogg a “bald-faced liar” in another tweet that is now, unsurprisingly, deleted. After recognizing the inappropriateness of these tweets, Gibson apologized on Twitter.

    “I would like to extend to you my most sincere apology for how I addressed you,” he said. “It was wrong and unacceptable. You are doing work that is important to you. I would like to extend my hand in friendship and understanding to you.”

    However, Gibson justified his behavior by asserting that he was simply standing up for the Constitution.

  55. 55
    Kay says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I think impeachment is a really radical step, because it’s anti-democratic. It removes an elected President. I don’t know but I’m pretty sure pulling it out for perjury in a deposition was not the intention of the founders. I mean given our current situation we’re really gonna split hairs on Presidential lying? These people lie DAILY.

  56. 56
    Kay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I know this sounds nutty but punishment is not that important to me. It’s important only in the sense that it’s fair because ordinary people get punished.

  57. 57
    germy says:

    @trollhattan: I’d go door to door for Ceiling Cat, but She doesn’t encourage proselytizing.

  58. 58
    Amir Khalid says:

    @germy:
    That’s a nice song, but it’s also the one that Paul Simon let Wilmer use as his campaign song in the primary.

  59. 59
    Aleta says:

    Glushkov has died. The Russian government is indifferent to, willing to cause, horrendous suffering and death. A curse on them.

  60. 60
    rikyrah says:

    @🌷 Martin:

    I don’t find this stuff amusing any more.

    I never have.

  61. 61

    @Kay: I think it is an inherent flaw of the presidential system of government that there isn’t a mechanism to remove the President from office other than impeachment. In a parliamentary democracy, a vote of no-confidence can remove a failing government from power.

  62. 62
    Aleta says:

    @Amir Khalid: Did you read somewhere that Simon gave permission? Or did B just use it because that is allowed w/o permission?

  63. 63
    piratedan says:

    since the GOP appears to be hellbent on becoming the party of treason, I do have to wonder, what kind of political party emerges from it’s ashes, although in my mind, it would be better to dig a hole, dump in the ashes and cover it with lyme. I never thought I would live through another political scandal like Watergate, but I have a feeling that this is going to be ever so much worse as when we start bringing charges against these traitors and those that aided and abetted it and enabled it for the ability to put forth their own agenda… I do wonder if we’re going to see this entire administration in jail and a good number of the GOP leadership, some NY FBI types, some national media types all being convicted and doing time as we root out the corruption.

    I hope that those elected have the political will and courage to make it happen.

    Perhaps by doing so, we can fix so much of what went wrong.

  64. 64
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    I know Jello salad was once a thing in America, but is it still a thing?

  65. 65
    trollhattan says:

    @germy:
    The state that elected and reelected LePage? Everything, pretty much. Maine has Portland and Freeport like Texas has Austin, as a haven for the normals.

  66. 66
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Amir Khalid: everything is still a thing somewhere in this vast expanse, especially when it comes to food.
    ETA: when do the PA polls close? I’m not seeing much speculation or gossip on twitter, surprisingly enough

  67. 67
    trollhattan says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    If I still attended Lutheran potlucks I could give you a solid (if quivery) answer, but haven’t been for quite some time.

  68. 68
    Steeplejack says:

    Cole’s tweet over to the right is pissing me off:

    Boomers and up gave themselves everything, took all the money, and then changed the rules. This is not a surprise. https://t.co/47co3OimB1— So Over This (@Johngcole) March 13, 2018

    I’m not on the Twitter, so I’ll respond here.

    Fuck off, numbnuts. Think about if you started a tweet with “Blacks did x” or “The Jews did y.”

    Alternately, okay, the “boomers and up” will fuck off—and take with them microcomputers, the Internet, cell phones and most of the film, TV and music you’ve been happily consuming for the last 40 years. Then you can send somebody an angry telegram about that.

    Note: I also abhor generational generalities about millennials, Gen X or the “yoots.” There’s a reason Vonnegut gave us the term granfalloon.*

    —————
    * “A proud and meaningless association of human beings,” or “a group of people who imagine or are manipulated to believe they share a connection based on some circumstance of little or no real significance.”

  69. 69
    ruemara says:

    @Kay: And Americans rejected it. Human decency is quieter than our savagery. And takes way too long to get active, but when it does activate, it does the right thing. We could use it getting going faster, tho. Not arguing that.

  70. 70
    Corner Stone says:

    So Over This
    ‏ @Johngcole
    4m4 minutes ago
    So Over This Retweeted Raw Story
    The dirty hippies were right, Obama should have prosecuted the Bush era torturers. It was a failure of his admin and I was complicit because I thought it would poison the well when the well was clearly already nothing but arsenic.

    Somebody hold me. I am having *ALL* the feels.

  71. 71
    germy says:

    @Amir Khalid: Paul Simon lifted the melody from an old spiritual, which was inspired by Bach.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M4uUJibpvw

    In late October 2008, the progressive advocacy group Progressive Future produced a 60-second television ad featuring “American Tune” in support of Senator Barack Obama’s presidential campaign. The “what’s gone wrong” line underscored a photo of President George W. Bush and Obama’s opponent John McCain standing close together.

    Simon also borrowed from an old spiritual for “Bridge Over Troubled Water.”

  72. 72
    MomSense says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: @Amir Khalid:

    Imani Gandy has had the funniest tweets about horrific jello recipes. Then someone suggested @70s_party (70s dinner party) and that twitter feed is just non stop tacky recipes. They would put olives and American cheese slices in lime jello.

  73. 73
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Aleta:
    He and Garfunkel declared themselves as Bernistas. It had been years since Paul and Artie last agreed on anything.

  74. 74
    trollhattan says:

    @Steeplejack:
    It’s a little like saying “that large cattle herd sure trampled the prairie.” The generation’s sheer size created its own consequences and the fact that it occurred during the postwar boom furthered those consequences. Any further conclusions require saltgrain intake.

  75. 75
    Aleta says:

    I’ll take the bait on Bernie though, to post this quote:

    Vagina Avenger™ @monicaisliberal

    Okay I will take the bait. This is why you lost Texas in the primary along with many southern states. This perception we haven’t been working fucking hard for decades. Maybe because it’s brown/black faces doing the work, that you believe we haven’t been prepared.

    (She’s responding to this tweet from Bernie Sanders:)
    If Texans are prepared to work hard, stand up, fight back, talk to people who voted for Trump, make sure that every friend you have comes out and votes — yeah, I believe that Texas can go blue.

    eta She is Mexicana.

  76. 76
    Ruckus says:

    @🌷 Martin:
    Haven’t found it amusing for over two years now.
    Not one of the republicans running in the election could be trusted to not fuck up a wet dream. And we got the worst of the worst. He can be trusted to fuck up everything.

  77. 77
    Kay says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I think so too because it’s so high stakes. It’s really all or nothing. I just think if I were a member of congress and I’m gonna spend a year of my life on an investigation I would do a real investigation, because this is your work and this play-acting they’re doing would just seem incredibly depressing to me. It’s almost as much effort to do a fake investigation as it is a real one, more, really, since you have to do so much theater with a fake one.

  78. 78
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    Normally it’s not that important to me, but we are obviously dealing with a group of damaged people who think they if they don’t get punished for what they did, what they did was okay. We need to stand as a society and say, “No, money laundering is not okay. Having the Russians steal emails for you is not okay. Using Facebook to target specific voters with lies is not okay.”

    They will never understand that what they did was wrong, so they need to be punished to help them understand it. They still might not get it, but at least they’ll be incarcerated and unable to do it again for a long time.

  79. 79
    ruemara says:

    @Aleta: Love the woker than thou crowd. Brown folks are just as unhuman to them as we are to the right. No, I won’t ally with them.

  80. 80
    geg6 says:

    @Steeplejack:

    Meh. Fuck ‘im. A more worthless, assholish bunch than Gen Xers I hope to never see.

    *Only saying this because Cole’s a Gen Xer. He, like many his age, seem to think everything is the olds fault. He forgets who a large number of Gen Xers have voted for over the years. cough*cough Reagan cough*cough Bush cough*cough Both of them cough*cough

  81. 81
    Jay S says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    when do the PA polls close?

    8pm Eastern

  82. 82
    MomSense says:

    @geg6:

    I fucking hate genXers and I am one.

  83. 83
    TenguPhule says:

    @rikyrah:

    Kay told us this yesterday.

    Apparently my place in the time space continuum here is fluid.

  84. 84
    Ruckus says:

    @Kay:
    The issue is who the republican asswipes in Congress think is their bosses. And the answer is that it’s not who is boss, it’s who owns them.

  85. 85
    Aleta says:

    @Amir Khalid: Thanks, that’s interesting about S&G united. Too bad their cause became destructive in the end of so much that we love.

  86. 86
    geg6 says:

    @chopper:

    I have been looking around for some idea of turnout but can’t find anything. Crossing my fingers.

  87. 87
    Chyron HR says:

    @Aleta:

    talk to people who voted for Trump

    I see he’s still on his “Trump voters are my chosen people! They’re not deplorable, it’s just that the Democratic establishment practically forced them to vote for a morbidly obese, sundowning neo-nazi!” kick.

  88. 88
    Kay says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    By the 9th or 10th fake hearing on Benghazi I would be seriously questioning my career choices. “Is this what I worked so hard for? To hold fake hearings? Am I an actor? What is my job?”

    This is THEIR thing. Their forum. Their workplace. They just shit all over it?

  89. 89
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    They need to be punished this time or else they’re just going to do it again.

    And I agree with you on this 110%

  90. 90
    AliceBlue says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    I received a book for Christmas a few years ago called “The Gallery of Regrettable Food” (Liberties Taken With Peas! Random Meats! Salty Salts!). It’s all pictures and recipes from 50’s and 60’s cookbooks, and there are THREE chapters on molded salads (“Moldorama”, “Jell-O Ignores the Difficult 60’s” and “Jell-O: The Groovy 70’s”). The pictures are unbelievable and the commentary hilarious.

  91. 91
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Jay S:
    We have Mormon missionaries in Malaysia, too, but sans jackets on account of the tropical climate.

  92. 92
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @AliceBlue: Once in a while, in a late-night thread, efgoldman and Omnes Omnibus will go down this road, to the disgust of right-thinking people.

  93. 93
    Kay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    And that IS nice that the big criminal justice machine just rolls on whatever they say, but I get the sense there’s like ONE check left and that makes me nervous. I think I get more than that. More process.

  94. 94
    ET says:

    There were hints and allegations

    Because I just had to finish that…..

  95. 95
    efgoldman says:

    @MomSense:

    What about the Iran Contra hearings?

    Church committee
    Teamster corruption hearings (made Jimmy Hoffa a household name, probably got him killed)

    The ostensible purpose of congressional/senate hearings is to gather information for writing legislation or voting a confirmation. Like everything RWNJs touch they have fucked it beyond a fare-the-well.

  96. 96
    Amir Khalid says:

    @AliceBlue:
    There’s a website, which I’ve seen. The mind boggles.

  97. 97
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    You know how Republicans are always going on and on about lazy poor people and how they spend all of their time cheating the system so they won’t have to do any real work?

    That’s projection. That’s what the Republicans are doing themselves — do a crappy job and get paid for it. They got elected to try and enrich themselves, not to actually do the work of governing.

    It seems weird to anyone who actually likes having a job, but they are lazy bastards who would rather hold a sham hearing than actually do any of the work it takes to do an investigation.

  98. 98
    NotMax says:

    @Steeplejack

    Yup. It’s a lazy and a sloppy way to classify a group or to describe behavior. The only certain, demonstrable trait members of any generation share is that they are people.

  99. 99
    efgoldman says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    efgoldman and Omnes Omnibus will go down this road, to the disgust of right-thinking people.

    Can’t speak for learned counsel, but only if provoked.

  100. 100
    TenguPhule says:

    @Steeplejack: Social Security, Medicare and Defined Benefit Pensions.

    A lot of older conservative assholes need to be burned at the stake for pulling up the ladders after themselves.

  101. 101
    The Moar You Know says:

    I’ve been visited by Witnesses, who apparently believe the way to paradise is in how many they can convert.

    @germy: You do them a disservice, there.

    Their belief, as I recall, is that a certain, fixed number of people get in Heaven (I think it’s 144,000 but could be wrong) and that your getting to heaven is determined before birth. Random crapshoot. Hitler might well be there in Heaven, and your kindly grandmother roasting in the fires of Hell. Which is a lot like real life, come to think of it.

    They spread the word because that’s what they were told to do. Their beliefs may seem insane but I find that true of every religion. At least they’re commanded to be honest and nice. They are pacifists and take that very, very seriously.

    They’re the best co-workers I’ve ever had, as they don’t celebrate holidays and you can always get one to sub for you if you need to be out a day.

    Not the worst folks I’ve met.

  102. 102
    Jay S says:

    @Amir Khalid: Yes they sometimes shed the jackets in the rare occasion of hot weather here in the Pacific Northwest. Never the tie though IIRC.

  103. 103
    TenguPhule says:

    @efgoldman: You can be provoked into sending jello cookbooks to people who upset you?

  104. 104
    The Moar You Know says:

    A more worthless, assholish bunch than Gen Xers I hope to never see.

    @geg6: I’ll give you an “amen” on that, and I am one. My generation is appalling.

    Cole’s got a point, though.

  105. 105
    NotMax says:

    @efgoldman

    Also the Tower Commission.

  106. 106
    Kay says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Conservatives really hated the Obama guidance on school discipline because IMO it’s some of the most disturbing stuff you’ll ever see on US racism, and it’s kids. It’s stark. You can’t deny it. Black kids are punished more in school, and more harshly, than white kids. It starts really young. So they suffered most from “zero tolerance” in schools. It was bad policy but it was devastating for black students, because it involves subjective measures and they were really hammered.

  107. 107
    TenguPhule says:

    @Corner Stone: That’s one of those things I hate being right about. I knew that shit was gonna come back and bite us. Letting the Bushies get away with actual war crimes was never going to end well.

  108. 108
    Schlemazel says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    You assume that enough GOP representatives would vote no confidence.

    I assume you are wrong

  109. 109
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    You can’t deny it.

    And I’m not going to. I’m on your side, Kay.

  110. 110
    trollhattan says:

    @AliceBlue:
    James Lileks, an early blogger who was once funny but then turned insufferable wingnut. SAD! A little like Dennis Miller, had Dennis Miller ever been funny to begin with.

  111. 111
    TenguPhule says:

    Ah yes, the Guardian reminded me of another potential disaster from the Tillerson firing.

    What about the Iran agreement?

    IIRC, this was one of the few areas Tillerson was not fucking insane or ignorant about.

  112. 112
    NotMax says:

    @AliceBlue

    Tuna rings!

    Also too, when in doubt, throw in a can of cream of mushroom or cream of chicken soup.

    :)

  113. 113
    germy says:

    @The Moar You Know: I worked with a Witness back in the ’80s. What impressed me was the total lack of racism. They were completely integrated.

  114. 114
    John Revolta says:

    Crackin’ up- Gettin’ ready to go
    Had enough- Can’t take any more
    No pills that I can take
    This is too real, and there ain’t no escape

    It scare the daylights
    It make a nightmare
    I’m tense and I’m nervous
    Everybody all around me
    Shakin’ hands and sayin’ howdy
    I don’t think it’s funny no more………………..

  115. 115
    germy says:

    “severed” ?

    Secretary Tillerson is a true patriot that has severed our nation well. Thank you for serving. Mike Pompeo will be an outstanding Secretary of State – the Senate should act swiftly to confirm him https://t.co/J8Eo0harb9— Sean Spicer (@seanspicer) March 13, 2018

    Only the best, highest quality people. But they can’t even tweet correctly.

  116. 116
    Aleta says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Two nights ago imani gandy mentioned the word ‘aspic’ (or maybe ass pic) and replies were full of pictures of those jelloey things. The especially horrendous ones.

  117. 117
    TenguPhule says:

    @germy: No, that’s the truth accidentally escaping from captivity.

    They’ve severed chunks of their Departments.

  118. 118
    Aleta says:

    @germy: He severed the hands and legs off the State Dept.

  119. 119
    efgoldman says:

    @TenguPhule:

    You can be provoked into sending jello cookbooks to people who upset you?

    Into posting things like this
    You provoked me

  120. 120
    kattails says:

    @Steeplejack: Thanks for that, seconded, and I’ve complained about it in the past. I keep coming back for the front-pagers who are so on top of the news.
    Cole, the people who are shooting up this country are overwhelmingly of YOUR SEX. Perhaps you could devote some time to ranting about how we are all walking around in terror of any male who gets pissed off about the tiniest slight, about his girlfriend or wife leaving, has a bad week and crappy self image, and blames everyone, or blames some group and feels entirely justified in slaughtering as many as possible to prove what-the-fuckever.
    Because as a boomer woman who started out with job opportunities in clerical work, nursing, or teaching, period, making maybe fifty cents to the dollar of any male job, my social security is a whopping $885/month. Sorry if that’s busting your personal budget and ruining it for generations to come.

  121. 121
    Steeplejack says:

    @germy:

    Says a commenter on a blog where typos rain rein reign supreme.

  122. 122
    germy says:

    @Aleta: Imani was a front pager here before my time. I’ve read comments here suggesting she was treated poorly by trolls. Who chased her off, and were they banned? If so, why can’t she return?

  123. 123
    Brachiator says:

    @TenguPhule:

    That’s one of those things I hate being right about. I knew that shit was gonna come back and bite us. Letting the Bushies get away with actual war crimes was never going to end well.

    I don’t see how you would go about prosecuting an American president (or VP) for war crimes. And in a democracy, I don’t know how you would skip over members of Congress who vote to authorize presidential behavior.

  124. 124
    eemom says:

    @Steeplejack:

    Srsly. “Hey, how ’bout some gratuitous shit slinging based on meaningless, ill-conceived generational classifications? I mean, we totally don’t have enough Stoopid glutting our senses 24/7…”

  125. 125
    TenguPhule says:

    @Steeplejack:

    Says a the commenter on a blog where typos reign supreme.

    Harumph!

  126. 126
    The Moar You Know says:

    Cole, the people who are shooting up this country are overwhelmingly of YOUR SEX. Perhaps you could devote some time to ranting about how we are all walking around in terror of any male who gets pissed off about the tiniest slight, about his girlfriend or wife leaving, has a bad week and crappy self image, and blames everyone, or blames some group and feels entirely justified in slaughtering as many as possible to prove what-the-fuckever.

    @kattails: He has. At length. Repeatedly. But you are new here, so you probably wouldn’t know that.

  127. 127
    Mnemosyne says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    In the Midwest, they are so persistent that they once forced their way into my friend’s house the day she had her wisdom teeth removed and proselytized her until her mother came back from the store and kicked them out. Any refusal to speak to them is seen as a challenge. I knew more than one person who had to answer the door with a shotgun after the JW’s refused to stop coming to their door.

    The ones in So Cal aren’t nearly as annoying.

  128. 128
    Lapassionara says:

    @Mnemosyne: I will. Anyone know where the St Louis area one will take place?

  129. 129
    zhena gogolia says:

    @kattails:

    Thank you for that.

  130. 130

    @Kay:
    I don’t think Republicans have discredited these institutions. They’ve discredited themselves. People don’t think ‘impeachment is just some political stunt.’ They think Republicans use it as a political stunt. More specifically, Republican voters think every Democrat should be impeached, pundits think impeachment is a game, and everyone else thinks that Democrats take it seriously and Republicans don’t. It’s the same with every other government institution. The largest group not on that map are ‘they all work for corporate paymasters’ to-cool-to-care types, who still don’t fit what you’re saying.

    @germy:
    I accepted the pamphlets from Witnesses once, curious what their message was. They say that their interpretation of Christianity is right because only they get the numbers to line up in prophecies of the messiah. Except their math doesn’t add up. I was unimpressed, to say the least.

  131. 131
    TenguPhule says:

    @Brachiator:

    I don’t see how you would go about prosecuting an American president (or VP) for war crimes.

    That’s the point, they didn’t even try. Practically nobody was held accountable aside from a few lower level scapegoats. And even those got piddly punishments not at all in proportion to their crimes.

    The experience would have at least better prepared us for how to handle this.

    And if we had discovered that the law really doesn’t apply to the CIC in office, then Obama could have simply used his newly discovered power of being able to do whatever the fuck he wanted to deal with the Bushies and Republicans accordingly.

  132. 132
    WereBear says:

    @MomSense: Oh, boy, I didn’t know there was so many!

  133. 133
    The Moar You Know says:

    In the Midwest, they are so persistent that they once forced their way into my friend’s house the day she had her wisdom teeth removed and proselytized her until her mother came back from the store and kicked them out. Any refusal to speak to them is seen as a challenge. I knew more than one person who had to answer the door with a shotgun after the JW’s refused to stop coming to their door.

    The ones in So Cal aren’t nearly as annoying.

    @Mnemosyne: Wow. Never even heard of anything remotely like that. But like you, I’m SoCal. I suspect religious proselytizers have a much harder time here in general as opposed to the rest of the country, and are grateful just to have anyone talk to them.

  134. 134
    germy says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I accepted the pamphlets from Witnesses once, curious what their message was. They say that their interpretation of Christianity is right because only they get the numbers to line up in prophecies of the messiah. Except their math doesn’t add up. I was unimpressed, to say the least.

    Ceiling Cat is the one true God.

  135. 135
    Aleta says:

    @germy: In 79 or 80 a friend of mine was in NYC at the Greyhound station when her bus was cancelled. She was invited by a nice woman to a vegetarian cafe, where people of different races and nationalities were eating together and talking. She was very impressed by the apparent lack of racism. ‘People from around the world’ was what she had always wanted to find in a community, she said later. And they just happened to have a bus leaving that evening, going north! And she could sleep over at their farm, and in the morning get a bus out of Albany to her destination. She went, it was the Moonies, she never showed up at my place, her relatives flew out from Ca and eventually pried her loose.

  136. 136
    Emma says:

    @TenguPhule: Obama is a Constitutional Law scholar and a damn good one. He could no more violate the Constitution than you can keep from wishing for a leftist dictator.

  137. 137

    @Schlemazel: If this were a parliamentary system you would only need a handful of Rs to cross over in the House, not all of them and then fresh elections could be called if they don’t get over 50% of the vote.

  138. 138
    Jake the antisoshul soshulist says:

    @Kay:
    They appear to be more interested in money. Once the drown government in a bathtub, money will buy all the power they want.

  139. 139
    NotMax says:

    @Amir Khalid

    Their dress code in Hawaii is the same.

    Gotta link it.

    :)

  140. 140
    The Moar You Know says:

    Obama could have simply used his newly discovered power of being able to do whatever the fuck he wanted to deal with the Bushies and Republicans accordingly.

    @TenguPhule: And nothing would have been different. Obama simply would have thrown the whole thing to the courts, and we’ve already seen the courts want nothing to do with it.

    Apropos of nothing, I am having a very hard time reconciling my general liking of Obama and the obviousness of his decency as a human being, with his utter failure in his last year of office to even try and take the GOP on regarding the two subjects which have now fucked America for what will be the rest of my lifetime: the Supreme Court and Russian election interference. His inaction is understandable but not justifiable, and I think history is going to be pretty hard on him for it.

  141. 141
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    If this were a parliamentary system you would only need a handful of Rs to cross over in the House, not all of them and then fresh elections could be called if they don’t get over 50% of the vote.

    Even if we had a parliamentary system we still would be in the same mess now, none of the Rs will cross over if it means Ds benefiting from it.

  142. 142
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    Hey, ease up on the condescension. Just because kattails hasn’t commented doesn’t mean she hasn’t been reading/​lurking. She’s entitled to her opinion.

  143. 143
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @germy: Secretary Tillerson is a true patriot that has severed our nation well. Thank you for serving. Mike Pompeo will be an outstanding Secretary of State – the Senate should act swiftly to confirm him Sean Spicer (seanspicer) March 13, 2018

    He was a communications professional, you know. (Still trying to get hired by someone…? anyone…? Bueller….? Muller….?)

  144. 144
    Kay says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Right, but what I meant was they can’t deny it :

    Social factors such as class and intelligence predict anti-social behaviors of many kinds – but those factors do not account for racial disparities in school punishments.
    African-American children do not engage in more serious forms of misbehavior. In fact, research by Russell Skiba and his colleagues shows that African-American boys are referred to the school office more often than children from other groups for minor acts such as littering or making too much noise.
    Inappropriate behavior does not bring the same punishments for children of different racial backgrounds. In collaboration with Raymond Paternoster, I have been fortunate to work with data that helps me see whether children who “act out more” according to independent ratings are more likely to be referred to the office. What we have found is clear and troubling. Racial disparities persist in school discipline even when we take into account how children’s behavior is rated along with school and teacher factors.

    So it was this huge deal, especially for expulsions, because kids who are expelled are more likely to end up in the crim justice system, hence “the school to prison pipeline”.

  145. 145
    germy says:

    @Aleta: I used to be approached by the moonies all the time in the ’70s.

  146. 146
    AliceBlue says:

    @trollhattan:
    He’s THAT James Lileks? Aw jeez.

  147. 147
    efgoldman says:

    @TenguPhule:

    we still would be in the same mess now, none of the Rs will cross over if it means Ds benefiting from it.

    Does Cleek’s law universally transfer across systems?

  148. 148
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    I’ve known Boomers who were kind, creative, compassionate, and good (and who–like ALL humans) had flaws. I have known some who were vile and greedy and pompous (who also had occasional flashes of intelligence and compassion).

    I can say the same about Xers, Millenials, Protestants, Mormons, atheists, Catholics, beer drinkers, wine drinkers, sportsball fanatics, table top gamers, etc, etc, ETC.

    Extrapolate what you will.

  149. 149
    TenguPhule says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    And nothing would have been different. Obama simply would have thrown the whole thing to the courts, and we’ve already seen the courts want nothing to do with it.

    I think that he should have thrown the whole thing at the courts in the first place. We needed to know whether or not the system would do its job while there was someone in the oval office we could trust to try and fix it if it turned out the courts were not up to it. If they decided to cede that power to the Executive branch, better we had found out then then risk finding it out now.

  150. 150
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Amir Khalid: My grandmother used to make lime Jell-O with green beans in it. It made sense because green.

  151. 151
    TenguPhule says:

    @efgoldman:

    Does Cleek’s law universally transfer across systems?

    Apparently so, if the UK has anything to say about it.

  152. 152
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    “Supreme Court and Russian election interference.”

    Yeah, those are already looming in the rearview mirror.

  153. 153
    Cacti says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    Their belief, as I recall, is that a certain, fixed number of people get in Heaven (I think it’s 144,000 but could be wrong) and that your getting to heaven is determined before birth. Random crapshoot. Hitler might well be there in Heaven, and your kindly grandmother roasting in the fires of Hell. Which is a lot like real life, come to think of it.

    You’re mostly right. It’s based on their reading of Revelation chapter 7, where there are 144,000 consecrated individuals who are before the throne of God and follow him wherever he goes.

    However, that number is made up of 12,000 of each tribe of ancient Israel, all are virgins, and all are presumably male (have not defiled themselves with women). So, if you’re not ethnically Hebrew, not a dude, and you’ve had sex, no JW heaven for you.

  154. 154
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cacti:

    So, if you’re not ethnically Hebrew, not a dude, and you’ve had sex, no JW heaven for you.

    Sounds like they’ll have a gay old time in the afterlife.

  155. 155
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Emma: I think there should have been something like a truth and reconciliation commission on everything to do with the Iraq War, including intelligence and torture, and in 2007 there was, I think, the political possibility of that. And that’s on Obama, Clinton, Pelosi, Reid and every Dem, especially those who saw themselves as a leader at that time. Prosecutions, convictions delivered by juries of defendants indicted and defended by lawyers armed with statutes and memos and national security redactions and pictures of 9/11 and stories of these brave folks who put their lives on the lines to fight TERRORISM… that makes “free college’ look like some hardcore, flinty-eyed, Nixonian realpolitik

  156. 156
    Brachiator says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    @Mnemosyne:

    The ones in So Cal aren’t nearly as annoying.

    I’ve never had an issue with JW people, or seen anyone else have an issue with them. I’m also here in Southern California, and run into them regularly during commutes. I think they have to go out and do their thing at least one day a week. I notice them more on Wednesdays.

    I noticed that they have come up with a fairly well designed website and will point you to it when they hand out literature.

    I’m not religious, so talking with them for a few minutes is no big deal. They can’t win me over or convert me.

    But I do take issue with them, and have to hold my tongue, over the apolitical aspect of their religion. I don’t know whether individuals vote, but the official line seems to be that the Next World is so important that political engagement in this world is meaningless.

    And I still give them points for one thing. German JW folk absolutely refused to be swayed by Hitler and so became targeted by that regime.

  157. 157
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Upper Mississippi valley? or Deep South?

  158. 158
    Mnemosyne says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    His inaction is understandable but not justifiable, and I think history is going to be pretty hard on him for it.

    I think his apparent “inaction” is going to turn out to be something quite different once the whole story is known. For everything we know right now about Russian interference and “penetration at all levels,” I think we’re only seeing the tip of the iceberg even now.

    So I’m going to wait to judge Obama once we know everything, or at least have gotten past the phase of the MSM turning and shouting, “It was him! All his fault! Don’t blame Trump, blame Obama!”

  159. 159
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @germy: She seems to have moved on. People have different interests and different tolerances for abuse. A lot of the crap directed at her was removed by FP’ers as soon as it appeared, and I’m assuming some people were banned. Much played out behind the scenes.

  160. 160
    Mary G says:

    @Steeplejack: Hear, hear. I am sick of all Boomers are conservative, all white women voted for Trump, young people should shut up about guns and be respectful, all millennials want granite countertops and stainless steel appliances, yadda yadda.

    Republicans took everything good away, that is truer.

  161. 161
    TenguPhule says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    armed with statutes and memos and national security redactions and pictures of 9/11 and stories of these brave folks who put their lives on the lines to fight TERRORISM

    Countered by naked human pyramids and photo after photo of beaten, half drowned and obviously tortured detainees, many of whom were never fucking charged with any crime.

    The lies went unanswered, unquestioned by most of the country. And we’re paying a price for that.

  162. 162
    Aleta says:

    @Aleta: Here’s a reply to a jello salad picture, from Emily Pawley, an environmental historian who’s ‘keeping track of the environmental present’

    Emily Pawley
    @emilypawley

    There is a version of this (but celery Jello with a fish in) that I use every time my students tell me that American consumer taste CANNOT CHANGE and so dooms us environmentally.

  163. 163
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @Mary G:

    Did you see any of my replies on no-knead bread? I need closure.

  164. 164

    @Steeplejack (phone): Which thread? I ar interested. Thanks.

  165. 165
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I think his apparent “inaction” is going to turn out to be something quite different once the whole story is known

    I think he tried to take the least worst course of action. Unfortunately, I think he made that choice based on incomplete information.

  166. 166
    Corner Stone says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    His inaction is understandable but not justifiable, and I think history is going to be pretty hard on him for it.

    If history exists after all this, it’s going to be brutal.

  167. 167
    trollhattan says:

    @AliceBlue:
    Right? Does not compute. Watched it happen in more or less real time and finally just stopped reading him. Sullivan, same thing although he takes the sense of self-worth to unexplored dizzying heights.

  168. 168
    TenguPhule says:

    JFC!

    Trump to Marines: ‘In a nuclear front we will be so far ahead’

    Wapo breaking. Fucker is giving a speech at a Marine base.

  169. 169
    Corner Stone says:

    @TenguPhule: He made a political decision. Each time.

  170. 170
    hellslittlestangel says:

    I’m in. Let’s impeach the senile old degenerate in 2019!

  171. 171
    TenguPhule says:

    @Corner Stone:

    If history exists after all this, it’s going to be brutal.

    You seem unduly optimistic.

  172. 172
    TenguPhule says:

    @Corner Stone: That’s what I said.

  173. 173
    hellslittlestangel says:

    @TenguPhule: @TenguPhule: Also:

    Trump to Marines:”Very soon, we are going to Mars.”

    If it’s you and your rotten fucking family, make haste.

  174. 174
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Are JWs the ones who refuse to observe birthdays, or is that 7th Day Adventists? Whichever it is, I once had a. colleague who would never sign the office birthday cards, attend office birthday or holiday parties, or even allow anyone apart from HR to know her own birthday in fear someone might wish her happy returns of the day.

  175. 175
    TenguPhule says:

    @hellslittlestangel:

    We need the border wall because of drugs and gangs

    Its a word salad at this point.

  176. 176
    Brachiator says:

    @Cacti:

    However, that number is made up of 12,000 of each tribe of ancient Israel, all are virgins, and all are presumably male (have not defiled themselves with women). So, if you’re not ethnically Hebrew, not a dude, and you’ve had sex, no JW heaven for you.

    Hmmm. I don’t see any of this mentioned as part of What Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe?

    But then again, I didn’t dive deep into their FAQs.

    They seem as reasonable, or as nutty, as most religions.

    This continues to amuse me:

    A relatively small number of people—144,000—will be resurrected to life in heaven to rule with Jesus in the Kingdom.

    I suspect that somewhere along the way, someone will move a decimal. I guess this makes many of their followers seem special, kinda like the Chosen-most of the Chosen, but it is just silly and arbitrary.

    Strangely enough, it appears that apart from this special group, other folks will be resurrected and live eternally in an Earthly paradise. Who knows.

  177. 177
  178. 178
    Aleta says:

    @Steeplejack: Well said. Admirable use of granfalloon. I wonder if people overlook the political contributions of older people on the left because white hair or older gait or whatever it is encourages discrimination–thus invisibility–due to age. I know a fair number of people in their 20s-30s who impress me politically and a large number in their 20s-30s who support everything JC hates. There seem to be a lot of rw Christians in their 20s-30s too.

  179. 179
    SgrAstar says:

    @Jay S: Maybe you’ve forgotten the magisterial integrity of Archibald Cox. On the teevee, Cox was an absolute star. I think he was my first crush. :)

  180. 180
    John Revolta says:

    @germy: @Gin & Tonic: I seem to recall her posts getting like < ten comments a lot of times. Dunno why…………but that may have had something to do with it.

  181. 181
    PJ says:

    @geg6: Was Lee Atwater a GenXer? How about Newt Gingrich? GenXers were too young to vote for Reagan. The turn to the right in the 80s was not driven by them, and they aren’t the ones who turned Reagan into a saint.

    Every generation inherits the rotten fruits of the previous generations’ bad behavior, but the “I got mine, f*** you” attitude, which so many Boomers embraced once they got wealth and power, is one of the main reasons this country is so screwed up.

  182. 182
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @hellslittlestangel: “Sir, is this going to be a stand-up fight, or another bug hunt?”

  183. 183
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Didn’t Angry Black Lady, as she’ll always be to me, move on because she got a paying gig? That said, she certainly seemed to trigger some people. As did Zander.

  184. 184
    ruemara says:

    @The Moar You Know: Maybe because we’re grown ass people and it’s not his job to come wipe our asses. Maybe, stop putting the fucking labor of the failures in our democracy on his fucking back.

  185. 185
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The only really good Jell-O™ salad I’ve ever had was something my aunt used to make: apricot Jell-O™ with sliced or chopped apricots. The dressing is what made it special: roughly equal portions of mayonnaise and honey whipped together with a generous quantity of celery seed. Sounds odd beyond belief, I know, but it was actually delicious. Haven’t thought of it in close to 40 years, probably.

    Do they even make apricot Jell-O™ any more? I rather doubt it.

  186. 186
    The Moar You Know says:

    As did Zander.

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Zandar had that fucking stalker, and that guy was fixated to the point of madness. Were I Zandar, I’d never get on any kind of social media/public internet every again, carry a gun 24/7, and beg the FBI for help. The guy stalking him was obviously dangerous.

  187. 187
    Sheila in NC says:

    @Matt McIrvin: That sounds like putting the dog’s medicine in his food.

  188. 188
    efgoldman says:

    @Corner Stone:

    If history exists after all this, it’s going to be brutal.

    Because of course, like every president, he was omniscient and omnipotent. And not human, also too.

  189. 189
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @The Moar You Know: He also clearly knew Zandar in real life. Frightening.

  190. 190
    Corner Stone says:

    @efgoldman: Listen, troll. He didn’t have to be omniscient. Some things were in plain fucking sight, and the IC knew and briefed about others. In 2015!

  191. 191
    Corner Stone says:

    @ruemara:

    Maybe because we’re grown ass people and it’s not his job to come wipe our asses. Maybe, stop putting the fucking labor of the failures in our democracy on his fucking back.

    Come right the fuck on.

  192. 192
    Brachiator says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Trump to Marines: ‘In a nuclear front we will be so far ahead’

    OK. I am going to have to step away from the computer for a while, just to preserve my sanity.

    Will check in later to see what is going on with special elections.

    But I’m wondering whether the pundits will pick up on this and actually try to deal with the implications. From CNN

    Tillerson ouster shows Trump is unleashed

    President Donald Trump’s firing of Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is the latest move in an audacious power play designed to build a governing team in his own image and to purge restraints that have tempered his brazen, impulsive instincts.

    Weeks of staff departures in the West Wing, with the prospect of more to come, and days of turmoil and chaotic governance have left Trump more solitary than ever before, but also offer space for him to give his disruptive, nonconformist impulses free rein.

    There is a building sense that Trump is relishing the prospect of running the presidency of which he always dreamed, as he acts from the gut, disregards “expert” advice and lives out the convention-trashing promise of his campaign.

    Trump has always bristled at any suggestion that he needed to be reined in or controlled. And pundits keep looking for some fantasy wise counsellor whose advice he will follow. And yet Trump keeps shrugging these people off, and replacing them with mooks whose key attribute is loyalty.

    This is not going to turn out well.

  193. 193
  194. 194
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Upper Mississippi Valley (Washington, Iowa), though by the time I had it she’d moved to Pennsylvania.

  195. 195
    NotMax says:

    @schrodingers_cat

    A different type of no-knead bread as a coda to Steeplejack here

  196. 196
    The Moar You Know says:

    Maybe because we’re grown ass people and it’s not his job to come wipe our asses. Maybe, stop putting the fucking labor of the failures in our democracy on his fucking back.

    @ruemara: I am not blaming him for the actions of the GOP – that is on them. I will blame him for actions that he should have taken but failed to, actions which were his responsibility alone. No one else could have done what was needful. The two things I cite were his job. He didn’t do them. America is going to pay for that inaction for decades.

  197. 197
    trollhattan says:

    @hellslittlestangel:
    Word. Elon can send him on his way this year. Fill the thing with diet coke and frozen burnt steak. Landing, not so much but you’ll get to Mars!

  198. 198
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Brachiator:

    The few encounters I’ve had with their proselytizers in CA have been pretty low-key. It may be a cultural difference in the churches of different regions

  199. 199
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Walmart.com claims to offer it.

  200. 200

    @Schlemazel: I was just comparing the two systems, not predicting what the current majority party would do.

  201. 201
    WereBear says:

    @The Moar You Know: Except when they shun a woman for sending her children to college. They have a dark side. The people I know who escaped have told me.

    Though not as dark as the Amish.

  202. 202
    Mnemosyne says:

    @ruemara:

    White dudes gotta white dude. 🙄

  203. 203
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @The Moar You Know: This does not necessarily constitute an excuse, but my best guess is, Obama thought he was going to tank Hillary Clinton’s chances for election by doing these things, and if he didn’t, she’d have an excellent shot.

  204. 204
    NotMax says:

    @SiubhanDuinne

    Mom occasionally cranked out a Jell-O mold made using champagne in place of the cold water. Don’t remember if there was anything suspended in it (maybe strawberries?) but it was pretty good.

    One grandmother prominently placed a Jell-O mold with all sorts of stuff inside (including iceberg lettuce!) on the Thanksgiving table during the 50s. 7/8 of it was still untouched by the time the meal finished.

  205. 205
    Jay says:

    @TenguPhule:

    If you look at the history of US Scandals, starting with the Nixon Sabotage of the Vietnam Peace Talks, you will see the same lists of “The Ususal Suspects”, front and center, along with later, their minions, alocytes and apprentices for the past 50 years.

    A common theme as to why the treason, and it is treason in the literal sense, was never rooted out root and stem, was:

    A) Bipartizanship, the need for Democrats to be able to work with at least a few across the isle to get legislation passed,

    B) Threats by Republican Leaders to make the claims that any deep ripping out of the “corruption” into was a “partizan witchhunt”, and sabotage the Government at every term.

    “Healing the political divide” has been the cry of every Democratic Party President elected since Nixon. Every single one of them thought that they could “fix the system” with the support of a few well intentioned Partners across the Isle.

    Remember Obama’s Team of Rivals, “look forward, not back”.

    I’m pretty sure that even when Obama called out Putin, and asked Yurtle the Turtle for support, that the Truth bomb didn’t drop.

    “The System” is broken because one Party, want’s it completely and utterly broken, now, at all costs.

  206. 206
    Mnemosyne says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    actions which were his responsibility alone

    How was the Supreme Court Obama’s responsibility alone when it had to be voted on by the Senate, and the Senate refused to do so? Why is that not Mitch McConnell’s responsibility?

    I remember commenters on this very website saying that Democrats should not support Garland’s nomination because there was one (1) Guantanamo decision of his that they didn’t like.

    Lefties cut off their nose to spite their face when it came to Garland, and now they’re blaming Obama for their own actions.

  207. 207
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Mnemosyne: the “left”, broadly speaking, hasn’t given a fuck about the Supreme Court, much less the judiciary, since 1992. I don’t get it, and I don’t know how to change it.

  208. 208
    WaterGirl says:

    @Steeplejack: I confess that I used the wrong rain/rein/reign here today. Or last night. I typed reign in, it didn’t look right, knew it wasn’t rain and left it. It obviously should have been rein in. Hanging my head in shame. Okay, good lesson, now I’m over it. But I won’t make that mistake again!

  209. 209
    rikyrah says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I know Jello salad was once a thing in America, but is it still a thing?

    bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

  210. 210
    MCA1 says:

    @germy: How very quaint that I listened to that song walking to my polling place on Election Day in 2008 thinking “What a waste these past few years have been; what a shame” but with an underlying sense of fatigued hopefulness that normalcy, even if a little diminished from the prior 8 years’ wear and tear, was about to be more or less permanently restored. That those nihilistic, amoral Republicans who’d taken partisanship nuclear would take a beating and find a sense of decency for fear of years in the wilderness.

    Makes “American Tune” even more poignant now, I guess. To think I actually thought we’d hit some sort of rock bottom under W. Not even f’ing close. The nation is so much wearier to its bones now than a decade ago it’s shocking.

  211. 211
    Aleta says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’ve made ‘jello’ with the (strictly natural foods*) kids next door by heating fruit juice, mixing in unflavored gelatin. A few juice cos (Santa Cruz, Knudson) make a juice called apricot nectar (that has some apple or pineapple juice in it too).

    In fact, last colonoscopy I had, I made ‘jello’ out of apple juice and unflavored gelatin. Also made some out of ginger juice which helped with nausea.

    *The boy once announced to me (as a secret), “My favorite food is high fructose corn syrup.”

  212. 212
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I know Jello salad was once a thing in America, but is it still a thing?

    You already knew that we had dark chapters in our history

  213. 213
    TenguPhule says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    You already knew that we had dark chapters in our history

    All the other bad things from the seventies are repeating, why not this?

  214. 214
    William Krueger says:

    Playing my made up game of drink wine and see if I can calculate the amount to the next $100 and donate.

  215. 215
    William Krueger says:

    @Brachiator:

    I’ve always thought it was 10%. Anyway, I had a weird thought about this the other day. Wouldn’t it be better to pick the bad people and send them the other way? Just a thought.

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