Fucksake, y’all:
Putin: “Maybe they're not even Russians. Maybe they're Ukrainians, Tatars, Jews, just with Russian citizenship. Even that needs to be checked.” https://t.co/yM7RGzj2cV
— Ken Dilanian (@KenDilanianNBC) March 10, 2018
It’s always been pretty obvious why folks like Steve Bannon are such fans of Putin and eagerly aligned Trump’s white nationalist Christian supremacist campaign with Putin’s worldwide neo-crusade. When the nest of traitors and grift-mavens currently infesting Congress and the White House is finally rooted out and loyal Americans regain control, they’ll need to drop some truth bombs on Mr. Putin. Not just the USA — every country that viper targets must join the effort.
Corner Stone
I think it may be too early for my give-a-shitter to kick in.
Baud
So we’ve ruled out the 400 pound dude in the basement, I see. (Unless that dude is a Tartar or a Jew.)
Honestly, Putin is the least culpable person in this whole mess. He’s not American. He owes no allegiance to our country.
Comrade Nimrod Humperdink
I’ve seen tweets mumbling about SWIFT. A properly enforced round of sanctions plus making it impossible for Russian oligarchs to bank internationally would probably make things interesting for the bare-chested Judo champion of the white race.
OzarkHillbilly
“Maybe they’re not even Americans. Maybe they’re Blacks, hispanics, Jews, just with American citizenship. Even that needs to be checked.” I did it so trump doesn’t have to.
randy khan
One way in which Putin is like Trump, I bet, is that they’re equally Christian in their actual beliefs.
NotMax
Sadly, the grooves on that ancient record never wear down.
Comrade Nimrod Humperdink
@OzarkHillbilly: CHAIN MIGRATION!!1
Corner Stone
@Comrade Nimrod Humperdink:
That’s a good one!
MattF
One thing that I’m sure Trump finds deeply impressive is Putin’s net worth– estimated at $200 billion. That’s very big money, and requires very big money laundering capabilities.
ETA: And… we’re not even counting the Putin-crony net worth.
Villago Delenda Est
So this helps explain Ann Coulter’s recent foray into 1937 Berlin.
“Globalists” are the new “rootless cosmopolitans”.
schrodingers_cat
What exactly is Christianity’s problem with Judaism? The hatred defies logic, to this non Judeo-Christian follower of the Ceiling Cat.
Corner Stone
@OzarkHillbilly: “We’ve got a lot of killers too. You think our country is so innocent?”
MattF
@Villago Delenda Est: Same thing. Translating from German is easy in this case..
Comrade Nimrod Humperdink
@Corner Stone: Betty DID specify a change in political leadership first. We all know that’s laughable with the current state of things. But I have enjoyed watching Dinosaur Farts Rohrabacher get a little attention lately.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: True — first order of business is to root out the traitors here. But then, not just the US but the world has to address the Putin issue. He basically pulled off a terrorist attack in the UK last week, though few people are calling it by its proper name.
Villago Delenda Est
@schrodingers_cat: The Jews turned Jesus over to the Romans.
Never mind that if, according to legend, Jesus needed to die and be resurrected in order for all his supernatural powers to save the souls of his lackwit followers to happen in the first place…they should CELEBRATE the Jews turning him over.
Corner Stone
@Villago Delenda Est:
I loved it when Trump called Gary Cohn a Jew twice at the Cabinet Press Event, then trolled him about being a weak sister on tariffs.
MattF
@Villago Delenda Est: Yeah– more material for the ‘inscrutable Gentiles’ folder.
WereBear
@Villago Delenda Est: Sense? Never a part of Christianity.
schrodingers_cat
@Villago Delenda Est:
:I know the cover story. Even that was ages ago. Why this never ending hate?
Roger Moore
@Villago Delenda Est:
She’s a Nazi wannabe?
HinTN
@ Ms Cracker (top)
As ever with le mot juste
NotMax
@schrodingers_cat
OT but your comment reminded me of something that occurred yesterday.
Spent a ridiculous amount of time cooling my heels on line going to the register at the supermarket because the cashier was crossing herself before scanning each item.
Wag
@OzarkHillbilly:
You forgot gays. Gotta hit every RWNJ boogeyman. Just for completeness sake.
Comrade Nimrod Humperdink
@NotMax: wait wut? Your supermarket still has cashiers?
schrodingers_cat
@NotMax: Why was she/he doing that?
Wag
@Roger Moore:
No. She has always been one.
HinTN
@Villago Delenda Est: Makes you wonder who sits back there behind the curtain and cobbles this shitshow together, don’t it.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: Agree. But we have to get to 2021 first.
@MattF: That’s more than Bezos!
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: The question is how? Sanctions alone seem to have done little to deter him. Does anyone have the stomach for a hot war with Russia?
NotMax
@schrodingers_cat
Working theory is because she’s an idiot.
Or takes the store’s name – Safeway – entirely too literally.
hellslittlestangel
Ooh, those pesky untermenschen! Do you think Putin will help us foil their next plot if we ask him nicely?
WereBear
@schrodingers_cat: When you are supposed to live by a rulebook that is 2000 years old, it’s going to happen.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: Roman Christians wanted to blame a non-Roman for killing Jesus. It snowballed from there.
HinTN
@NotMax:
Good Lord
I would worry about what she was worrying about.
Amir Khalid
@NotMax:
She coulda said her prayers before starting her shift. God would have called it good.
Aleta
Ted Lieu’s letter to the NRA (this is the middle part–the first part is good too)
Baud
@HinTN: Maybe she saw NotMax in line.
Immanentize
@Roger Moore: Has anyone watched Babylon Berlin? I heard it was the most expensive German TV production ever. It is very well done (so far — only finished 4 episodes). I love how it portrays the “decadent” folks as just down at the heels club kids. But then, of course, 1937…
schrodingers_cat
@WereBear: @Baud: As I said, that’s the cover story but to keep a nonsensical hatred like that alive for two thousand years takes some doing. Western civilization doesn’t seem so civilized after all.
Immanentize
@NotMax: Was she afraid of the devil in the scanner? That is so odd and so very cool at the same time. I’m going to store that image away for some useful future purpose?
schrodingers_cat
@Amir Khalid: According to the Geeta, doing your job well is a prayer in itself. Don’t most religions frown on the show of overt religiosity which the so-called religious people lurve to indulge in.
HinTN
@Aleta:
One can hope that Mueller’s team is asking them those questions. Under oath!
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I was going to say that!
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
IIRC, the early Christian Church sought to convert the barbarians of Europe. But a decision was made to allow the Jews to be Jews in order for them to serve as a living example of how non-Christians would be treated. (Not altogether different from how blacks in the U.S. were and are used to keep poor whites in line). Over the centuries, that culture became entrenched in Europe.
Amir Khalid
@schrodingers_cat:
All the Abrahamic faiths do, but not everyone has understood the message.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: So you’ve met NotMax.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Only in the comment section.
Roger Moore
@Villago Delenda Est:
Of course there’s a lot more to it. Jews were always a group of others living among Christians, which made them a convenient scapegoat any time somebody needed to whip up public fury to deflect attention away from their own wrongdoing. There’s also a whole thing about Christians being forbidden from charging other Christians interest on loans, which meant bankers were disproportionately Jewish and made pogroms a convenient way to skip out on one’s debt.
NotMax
@Immanentize
Lavish production. Went off in directions differing from what it seemed to promise, which was kind of a disappointment. Eminently watchable though.
N.B.: The English dubbing is lackluster. Go with the original German with English subtitles
Ohio Mom
@schrodingers_cat: It’s always been my belief that having an “other” helps maintain group solidarity.
The Christian world has had its share of schisms — when the church split into Roman Catholicism and the Eastern Orthodoxy, the Protestant Reformation, and then all the various Protestant sects. Having something to contrast themselves against kept some solidarity going.
Along the way, antisemitism just developed its own momentum.
Don’t discount either that it can be useful for Jews as a community glue, and I say this as a Jewish person who often rolls her eyes at her co-religionists on this issue. For example, I don’t care what Farakahn says, he is no threat to any of us, but others get sort of a thrill out of thinking he represents amortal danger to us. Evangelicals are argueably a threat but many in the Jewish community like them for supposedly being pro-Israel.
But whatever, reminding ourselves that “Scratch a goy, find an antisemite” (I wince as I type that), inspires many to keep embracing their Jewish identity even though it is easier than ever to assimilate out.
My (ironic) feeling is, yes, there is indeed antisemitism. But the genius of America for us is that so many other groups that are hated even more than us. It is a long line of Blacks, Latinos, Native Americans, Gays, etc., and we are somwhere toward the back.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: And do you do आरती whenever you visit BJ while he’s here?
Betty Cracker
@schrodingers_cat: Truth bombs rather than conventional ordnance is what I’d like to see. Expose Putin and his pals — tell the truth about their epic corruption and dirty dealing all over the world. We’ve barely scratched the surface on sanctions, and Trump hasn’t bothered to implement the ones we have passed. There’s so much we could do to roll Putin back, which was why he was terrified of the prospect of a Hillary Clinton admin.
NotMax
@Baud
Can say I managed to keep my Buster Keaton stone face intact the whole time.
GregB
@Villago Delenda Est:
Please use her full name: Ary-Ann Coulter.
Cheryl Rofer
@schrodingers_cat: We have to strengthen our defenses. One way to do that is illustrated in this thread about the poisoning in Salisbury. I’ll just post the first tweet, and people can click over if they want to see the whole thing.
We also have to defeat our internal propaganda organs, like Fox. Or at least provide a counter that can draw away those who aren’t totally committed to the crazy.
It’s essential that the President get behind these efforts, though, and looks like that’s not going to happen.
OzarkHillbilly
@Wag: If I listed everyone they hate, there’d be no room for anyone else to comment here
trollhattan
@Wag:
The probably invited her as a teacher.
Corner Stone
@schrodingers_cat: Got to have some other to hate. It’s the Christian thing to do.
sdhays
@schrodingers_cat: If you can’t be lord over other people how righteous and holy you are and wallow in a persecution complex when those other people get annoyed with your performance, then what’s the point?
Suzanne
@schrodingers_cat:
The Jews are seen as traitors by some, plus all the blah blah blah about money-lending and supposed cheating.
GregB
@Betty Cracker:
The whole Putin-Trump axis is also the world turned upside down.
The far right has been bemoaning a global conspiracy to control the world at the behest of a bunch of softy, human rights respecting, social democratic leftists and the reality is there is an active conspiracy to solidify power among a cabal of rightwing, hypercapitalist, authoritarian dictators, strongmen and autocrats who use murder, repression, torture, human trafficking, arms dealing, lies, money laundering and wanton shitheelery in their quest to snuff out representative liberal democracy.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Actually one does aarti not just of gods but also of people, to welcome them or on a special occasion. Like a mother will do an aarti of her child on his or her birthday or Diwali. So aarti doesn’t quite work in this example.
Were I religious and afraid of NotMax (which I am not)
I would be muttering my favorite deity’s name under my breath (for example, Ram, Ram, Ram…)
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: I know. But it was the only thing I could think of.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: At least I know it wasn’t my fault. I think….
Ohio Mom
@Corner Stone: A friend who is rediscovering her Catholicism told me the other day she just heard in a sermon that the Old Testament God was so violent but the New Testament God is loving. I asked how living and kind is it to have your son tortured to death?
That threw her off-balance. I felt kinda bad for that, truthfully.
El Caganer
@schrodingers_cat: Yep. In Christianity, it’s the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector (Luke 18: 9-14)
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
Basically, haters need someone to hate, and someone can benefit by channeling that.
NotMax
@Ohio Mom
Cosmic pivot.
:)
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: Christianity began as a Jewish sect. Non-Jews who wanted to become Christians originally had to convert to Judaism first. Church leaders began to look at Jews who were not converting and started thinking that they were specifically rejecting Christ as their Savior (because what other reason could they have, right?). As a result they imposed restrictions on Jews as they gained secular power. No owning land, limited one section of the city, etc. Thus they were othered. Following this, the things that everyone else has been mentioning happened.
Baud
@NotMax: Ram, Ram, Ram….
Ohio Mom
@NotMax: Maybe she has a severe case of OCD and is having trouble finding the right meds. She could be compelled to cross herself by out-of-whack brain transmitters.
Having a child on the autism spectrum has led me to always consider neuro-atypicality when confronted with atypical behaviors.
OzarkHillbilly
@schrodingers_cat: Obligatory- National Brotherhood Week -Tom Lehrer
Aleta
Cheryl Rofer’s twitter feed is so good on the Russians, and Korea and a hundred other things. The Julia Davis thread she links to embeds some R propaganda (about Skripal). It actually reminds me of the spin from “wh sources” and “close friends” in mainsteam stories about Iv, Hicks and T , and lots more ….
NotMax
@Ohio Mom
If had to guess her age by appearance alone, would say 70 at a minimum.
Immanentize
@NotMax: I agree — the dubbing is poor. I started on the dubbed version because I was distracted with multitasking necessity, but it was bad enough, I started it again. So much more meaningful.
Literally, better in the original German!
Ohio Mom
@schrodingers_cat: You are right, the crux of it all is that Western civilization isn’t all that civilized. That is our dark secret.
OzarkHillbilly
@Ohio Mom:
They aren’t pro Israel so much as pro End Times.
Immanentize
@Ohio Mom: Ah, like Garciaparra at the plate for the Sox.
Tenar Arha
@schrodingers_cat: One short answer I’ve read about is that Judaism as a religion had certain special privileges attached to it in the Roman Empire that early Christianity did not. Jewish people had a well deserved reputation as absolute maniacs about being allowed to worship as they so chose. They had an ancient history they could point to, that this was an absolute requirement & they’d make any empire miserable if they tried to force Jewish people to worship the god of a city/the Emperor. So Jews were legally allowed to not sacrifice to the city god or the emperor god. Early Christians after a certain point, bc in part they didn’t feel it was necessary to follow Mosaic law to follow Jesus, had no such protection as a “new” sect, even if it was based on Jewish principles. Combined with the natural divergence, insistence that “our ways are the true ways,” and inter-familial drama between two sects as they become different religions…and then Christianity becomes the State religion under Constantine.
Betty Cracker
@GregB: I couldn’t agree more. We have to fight back, first by ejecting the cabal that’s seized power here, then by joining other countries to roll it back worldwide. It’s a tall order, I realize!
Immanentize
@Ohio Mom:
But it is relentless
Gin & Tonic
You have to feel for Vladimir Vladimirovich, unluckiest man in the world. Shit just keeps on happening around him – countries get invaded, planes get shot down, political parties get organized, movements get started, political opponents get shot or poisoned, all oddly to his benefit, yet he never has anything to do with the events, and people blame him.
Betty Cracker
@Aleta: Everyone on Twitter should follow Cheryl!
OzarkHillbilly
@Ohio Mom: Throwing uber Christians off balance with logical questions is a hobby of mine.
debbie
@schrodingers_cat:
The Jews killed Christ, for God’s sake! //
Actually, it predates Christ and goes back to when Judaism was the sole monotheistic religion (at least in that area of the world). This alone made Jews hateful to them. From this hatred sprang blood libel, the belief that Jews kidnapped babies, murdered them, and used their blood to make matzohs. (If you’ve ever seen matzohs — the ultimate white food — you know that can’t possibly be true and you’ll be gob-smacked wondering how anyone could have believed that in the first place.)
Any improvement in relations since then occur only because evangelicals have decided to view Jews as the caretakers of Jerusalem until the time of the Rapture. They’re still hateful for killing the Lord, but they do serve a purpose.
Baud
@Aleta:
Why is he being respectful to the NRA? Another weak-ass Dem.
MattF
Speaking of Christians and ‘Christians’ this Slate article about Rachel Denhollander lays out the difference in excruciating detail. Ms. Denhollander is relentless.
ETA: Link is a couple of comments below.
Betty Cracker
@Gin & Tonic: Another point of affinity with Trump and the Trumpists. All this hinky shit happens around them — democracy is undermined, Nazis are emboldened, the Treasury is looted, immigrants are demonized, etc., but it’s never their fault.
debbie
@NotMax:
The Christianist ten-finger discount?
David Evans
@Cheryl Rofer: Meanwhile Russian radio is oh so subtly saying “He had it coming”:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43330498
MattF
@MattF: Ooops, link is here.
WereBear
@schrodingers_cat: Like Ghandi said, “I think it would be a good idea.”
germy
whatabout
Ohio Mom
@NotMax: I didn’t mean to imply she might be austitic, just that I have developed an appreciation for all the ways a brain can break, and how those breaks can manifest, which is often in unusual (atypical) behaviors.
Whatever the cause, this woman is not well; something is interferring terribly with her ability to function. The line would have been just as slow and frustrating an experience if her movement was rubbing her belly while patting her head after each item. The rest of us would just not have given the same interpretation to it.
Manyakitty
@Roger Moore: Also, too, we were here first. All abrahamic religions originated with Judaism.
Immanentize
@Gin & Tonic:
Baud
@germy: So Assange says UK should poison Putin’s chocolates?
Ok.
Aleta
Good point. That seems very likely. @Ohio Mom:
My world view got much wider because of people in it who are neuro-atypical. It’s kind of like the changes in US understanding of the people of Japan and Africa between 1901 (St. Louis Expo) and now.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Betty Cracker: Just added her.
OzarkHillbilly
@Ohio Mom: Obligatory- Mr Deity episode 1
After creating the universe, Mr. Deity and Larry decide what evil they’ll allow.
Corner Stone
That was funny. Joy Reid just asked her guests that, as an intelligence matter, what one person would they want to put in the room for questioning?
Naveed Jamali blurted out, “Jared Kushner. Because I can’t stand that dude.”
Aleta
@Betty Cracker: Imho Cheryl’s feed is outstanding!
germy
Well, this settles it then.
Gin & Tonic
@germy: If somebody gave him chocolates filled with VX I wouldn’t cry.
Ohio Mom
@OzarkHillbilly: That is why I don’t believe they are philo-semetic. But members of the Jewish community who incorrectly see anti-semetism everywhere also incorrectly judge the Evangelicals as friends. They are blinded by their prejudices.
NotMax
@germy
*cough* Olga, Tatiana, Maria, Anastasia, and Alexei *cough*
germy
@NotMax: Yes, excellent point.
“…with certain notable exceptions.”
B.B.A.
If you’re Jewish, you’re not Russian. It doesn’t matter if you were born in Russia, you have Russian citizenship, your ancestors have lived in Russia for centuries – Jews are a separate nationality from Russians, and always have been.
It’s a bit hard to wrap your head around, especially in America where nationality and citizenship are synonymous. Before Versailles, when Woodrow Fucking Wilson insisted we should carve up the old empires of Europe and create new countries on ethno-nationalist grounds there were a lot more examples. E.g., Prague was in the Austrian Empire but a Czech living in Prague wasn’t Austrian.
That kind of old world thinking is starting to make its way here. It should have been buried long ago with the Kaisers and Czars.
Aleta
@Cheryl Rofer: And you’re fast too… :) Didn’t intend to repeat. I’m slow what with remembering where I saw that, and the links and the impatient cat hanging on my ear.
Litlebritdifrnt
Just reposting this headline here in case people missed it downstairs
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/03/09/bae-systems-poised-unveil-long-awaited-saudi-order-48-typhoon/
Just wondering what caused this 10 billion pound investment to go to the UK instead of the US? Could it be that US manufacturers make jets with imported steel and aluminium thereby making them too costly?
kindness
Build the Wall!!! (around Russia’s internet)
JimV
“What exactly is Christianity’s problem with Judaism?”
That it continues despite Jesus and thereby disputes his legitimacy. Who should know better if Jesus was the messiah predicted by the Torah? Who saw his miracles (if they occurred) at first hand? Yet they reject him. Either a) they, the experts, have expertly concluded that Jesus was not the messiah nor the son of God; or b) they are bad people who have turned their backs on God; or c) none of the above. Christians are only allowed to pick b) or c). If you’re not a Christian you’re either a heathen or a heretic, and heretics are worse. (For True-Believer values of Christian.)
Chyron HR
@germy:
I believe “A ha[r]sh new policy of killing family members” is properly called “Trumpism”.
zhena gogolia
@NotMax:
Oh, God, he’s such an idiot.
germy
@Chyron HR: “It wuz Hillary”
Litlebritdifrnt
Just seen on Twitter, Cohen not licensed in California where he filed the arbitration. Oops. How does Donny Dollhands manage to hire the most incompetent motherf**kers on the planet. Does he actively seek them out?
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Your are funny. Poor NotMax!
MattF
@Litlebritdifrnt: He looks for that special something– sympatico.
Chyron HR
@Litlebritdifrnt:
“I have the worst f*cking attorneys.”
OzarkHillbilly
@Ohio Mom:
As are we all.
RedDirtGirl
@Corner Stone: Coffee usually helps!
NotMax
@Litlebritdifrnt
Hey,
mathlaw is hard!:)
schrodingers_cat
@B.B.A.: My Jewish friends from Russia say that’s what it said on their passports too.
Amir Khalid
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Let me just repost my reply, then:
Not to rule out a political reason for the decision, but there’s a perfectly good non-political one. If it were you buying fighter planes for the Royal Saudi Air Force, would you want the long-delayed (and still not quite ready), overpriced, and unreliable F-35? The American military has spent three decades making a pig’s breakfast of the development project for that plane.
ETA: … And the Saudis may have been one of the international partners who spent those decades watching their share of the bill rising with little to show for it.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@Litlebritdifrnt: How does the system not catch the most incompetent motherfuckers on the planet ?
MattF
@NotMax:
Mathlawhealth carediplomacyeconomicsis hard!NotMax
@Amir Khalid
Plus, the Israelis buy American.
;)
Wonderful word which appears to have gone out of fashion: boondoggle.
schrodingers_cat
Thanks so much everyone for answering my question. I have gained a lot of historical perspective. I have encountered people professing blatant anti-semitism in conspiratorial terms to me. Even the seemingly “normal” ones. It runs deep. It always surprises and takes me aback.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Amir Khalid:
I agree with that analysis, however I still thing Trump’s tariffs are part of the reason.
Immanentize
@germy:
Oh, so COS Kelly is a Russian?*
* 1) I always want to type POS Kelly
* 2) Assange is truly a sexist idiot POS
Corner Stone
@RedDirtGirl: Thankfully, that’s one vice I never acquired.
Brachiator
@Ohio Mom:
Evangelicals are useful. They tend to favor economic and military support for Israel even if they oppose foreign aid for anybody else. And you don’t hear Trump whining about the unfairness to the US of any past deals with that country.
And evangelical belief in End Times is far preferable to countries which shout “Death to Israel.”
Also, of course, today’s evangelicals hate Muslims more than they hate Jews.
Mnemosyne
@debbie:
The Roman Catholic Church changed its stance on Jews and anti-Semitism with Vatican II, and Pope John XXIII publicly prayed for God’s forgiveness for the RCC’s past crimes against the Jewish people.
That’s really what the split is between “traditionalist” Catholics and the mainstream Church is about — “traditionalists” are anti-Semites who are pissed that they no longer have the backing of the RCC for their hatred.
Most mainstream Christian denominations followed suit (or got there first, TBH). Instead of doing that, Evangelicals like the Southern Baptists transformed their hatred into a tight hug without actually dropping the underlying anti-Semitism.
And never forget that the more racist sects out there still blame meddling Jews for the Civil Rights Movement, crazy as that seems to us.
NotMax
@germy
Coincidentally streaming in the background a (not all that well made) series about the all female flying bomber squadron set up by Stalin during WW2.
Aleta
@schrodingers_cat:
Competition for power, then and now.
Apparently the life force of the people governing us.
MoxieM
@schrodingers_cat: Also, a pet peeve of mine is the term “Judeo-Christian”. I mean, go with Abrahamic if you must (of course that includes the dreaded Muslims). But seriously, what even is a “Judeo-Christian?” If you’re a Christian, that precludes Judeo, yes? and vice-versa.
I speak as a lapsed Unitarian (not even really a Universalist), from a family of same. Except my Episcopalian High church raised dad, who called it the “so-called church”. He was deeply agnostic.
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
I don’t know. A piece of paper, no matter how popish, changed nothing. The sentiments necessitating the need for Vatican II never disappeared. We may be talking about differing degrees — ranging from virulent to benign — but it’s all still the same beast.
MoxieM
@hellslittlestangel: Yeah, but I guess Putin forgot that Slavs (Russian-Russians, in his world view), are themselves Untermenschen. By def. Ugh, so ugly.
Villago Delenda Est
@Roger Moore: As I’ve mentioned before here, I’m sure, her greatest regret is she was born about 50 years too late to be the Bitch of Buchenwald.
MoxieM
@Immanentize: OKay, so I’m responding a lot in a row, BUT.
Yes, I binge-watched it, I got high on watching it, I loved it to death. I adore the lead actor (swoon). It was, dunno, like Homicide set in late 1920s Berlin or something. Apparently it was the most expensive production yadda yadda. That shows. The costumes! The cars! The corruption! The impending doom … Holy cow. Ausgezeichnetes Kino.
Mnemosyne
@debbie:
Um, Vatican II was not “a piece of paper.” It’s what changed all RCC churches from doing Mass in Latin to doing it in the local language. It changed big chunks of the liturgy. It re-wrote the catechism that they use to teach kids.
If you’re still running into avowed Catholics who are openly anti-Semitic, ask them if they go to Latin Mass. I’ll bet you they do, because that’s the marker for Catholics who reject Vatican II’s changes and cling to the old, anti-Semitic liturgy.
ETA: It’s the difference between teaching generations of kids that the Jewish people are directly responsible for Jesus’s death and teaching them that his death was part of God’s plan. If you don’t think there’s a difference between those two things, I don’t know what to tell you.
No Drought No More
“When the nest of traitors and grift-mavens currently infesting Congress and the White House is finally rooted out and loyal Americans regain control, they’ll need to drop some truth bombs on Mr. Putin”.
There is nothing stopping congressional democrats from speaking such plain truth but their own well reasoned timidity, and the antiquated notion that foreign policy stops at our shores. That was eviscerated when Trump-Cheney (et.al.) lied us into waging the War in Iraq. The moral imperative to condemn that war may have since eluded democratic party leaders, still, they can run but they will never be able to run far enough. The fact that democrats continue to defer to that quaint old notion while republican party shot-callers have been acting as agents of treason unto this age of Trump is a crime in itself.
Toss Richard Nixon’s treason subversion the 1968 Paris Peace Talks into the pot, and it’s a testament to their character that the American people didn’t hang the rotten bastards higher that Haman years ago.
Congressional democrats can
tobie
@B.B.A.: My understanding is that the idea of Jews as simultaneous citizens & nationals is fairly recent. In Europe Napoleon was the first leader to grant Jews the full rights, protections and responsibilities of citizenship. Before then they had the status in most European countries–if they had status at all–as “resident aliens,” permitted foreign nationals (i.e., “Israelites). Evidently that old practice continues in the Russian Federation.
David Evans
@MoxieM: I am in conversation with a Roman Catholic lady who has informed me that Episcopalians are not Christians.
Corner Stone
@No Drought No More: Do you even Democrat, bro?
Brachiator
@David Evans:
Wow. Now that’s old school.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
Um, correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t this ironically count as “identity politics”?
JR
@schrodingers_cat: they inherited it from the Romans
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
In Russia, it’s hidebound tradition – round up the usual suspects.
JR
@tobie: Jean Sylvain Bailly, actually
Ruckus
@schrodingers_cat:
If you read the first 2/3 of the bible it’s mostly about mistrust and yes, hate for others. The last 1/3 had to be added later but seemingly a lot of followers just ignore that last 1/3, you know, with the parts about maybe being a slightly better human.
Ruckus
@NotMax:
WTF? Did all the lasers in the scanner make her think the devil had invaded it?
Ruckus
@HinTN:
No actually it doesn’t. It’s pretty obvious who is running the asylum. The inmates. Nurse Ratchet has left the building.
Ruckus
@schrodingers_cat:
Who ever told you it was?
Half the people are trying to rip off the other half and the second half is trying not to destroy the first half because they are all related. It’s just family. It’s called civilization in the hope that someone somewhere may find some and make calling it that have a modicum of truth.
But her emails!!!
@David Evans:
Have you told her that’s OK, neither are Catholics?
Ruckus
@Ohio Mom:
Isn’t pretty much every human?
Isn’t that what makes them prejudices, blinding hate?
No One You Know
@schrodingers_cat: It isn’t a problem with Christianity. It’s a problem with White Anglo-Saxon Protestants who are also bigots and racists. Hence “Christianist” is a better term for them.
Christianists do not walk in the Word, they warp it for their own purposes.
Christians understand very clearly that without the Jews, there is no law, no Jesus, and therefore…no Christianity. We are People of the Book, Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike. Our differences in creating a culture is all that separates us. Sadly, it seems to be enough.
I’m not even going to start with Catholics who think other denominations aren’t Christian.
Villago Delenda Est
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Whatever “conservatives” are whining about, it’s always projection.
Ohio Mom
@OzarkHillbilly: Yes, it is all decent people’s life’s work to overcome their prejudices.
DissidentFish
@Suzanne: As Tom Lehrer once said :
“Oh the Protestants hate the Catholics
and the Catholics hate the Protestants
and the Hindus hate the Muslims
and every body hates the Jews…”
The Jewish people have been used a scapegoats by people in power throughout history because they are there, and in the minority. Part of why its so sad to see how the Israeli government deals with the “other” under their rule.
schrodingers_cat
@No One You Know: Aren’t the Russians and Slavs mostly Orthodox? Anti-semitism is alive and well there.
schrodingers_cat
@DissidentFish: Russkies are not WASPs, are they?
StringOnAStick
@schrodingers_cat: There are long term sociological factors for antisemitism too. By being forced to live only in their allowed areas, communities on both sides grew more insular. Being insular by force, by tradition, or whatever just allows more otherizing. Once you’ve been othered as a group then blame and atrocities against you are much easier.
I just read a book about how the Danes basically spontaneous helped the Jews in their midst escape to neutral Sweden, more than 98% of Danish Jews survived the war and returned. We’re talking around 8,000 people so not a big population, mostly from the largest cities. Denmark has had a law forbidding religious discrimination since 1814.
Ohio Mom
I am reminded of the bus ride home from a Girl Scout trip when I was in fifth grade. I don’t remember what we we were talking about before a couple of the Italian girls announced that they’d just learned in their religious school that Jesus was Jewish.
Perhaps they meant that to show we had something in common but we Jewish girls were horrified that they were insinuating that we had anything to do with him. He was obviously Christian, we insisted.
No, they answered, he wasn’t Christian til he got to heaven.
What the moral to this story is, I do not know. But it has stuck with me for half a century now.
Ohio Mom
@StringOnAStick: The King of Denmark wore a yellow star in solidarity with his country’s Jews.
MoxieM
@Brachiator: That’s hilarious. Not even high Church, smells and bells? Probably not…
My (former) UU church sold its early 18th c. communion silver, since, d’oh, no communion. Ralph Waldo Emerson had his last regular pulpit at that church, although not as a called minister. (In other words he was a visiting minister, for a year or so). I used to joke that we sold the communion silver that Waldo refused to use, anyway.
(Possibly too much of an in joke for UU types.)
debbie
@Ohio Mom:
The most anti-Semitic people I ever knew came from a family who had converted from Orthodox Judaism to Methodist and then moved to my town to start a new life and to escape all the hate they had experienced. The family changed both first and last names and acted as if they’d always lived Protestant lives. The daughter was in my class and in eighth grade called me a kike. It was a new word to me and when I asked my father what it meant, I was more surprised by his reaction than by what the word meant. I later learned his anger was due to knowing the family’s past.
Ironically, years later, we met up in a NYC bar and some drunken lout came up, told us he could always tell whether a woman was Jewish, told me I wasn’t, and then told my classmate that she definitely was. Her sputtering, red-faced anger was pure karmic justice.
Mnemosyne
@Ohio Mom:
There’s a lot of interesting history about the 100 years or so when Christianity went from being a small Jewish sect to being a separate religion. I think that’s part of the reason anti-Semitism exists as well: it’s a continuation of that initial rejection and split, only the rejected ones managed to get the upper hand and took their revenge.
If I have your age about right, those Italian Catholic girls may have been just the right age to have been taught one week in catechism class that the Jews killed Jesus, and then told the next week that the Pope had said that the Church had been doing it wrong and Catholics needed to embrace Jews as people the Catholic Church had wronged. So there may have been a bit of theological whiplash they were trying to figure out.
Ohio Mom
@Mnemosyne: That sounds very possible. It was 1966!
Looking back, even if they didn’t have everything quite right, they were still much better educated in comparative religion than us secular Jewish girls were at the time.
NotMax
@Ohio Mom
1950s: Had to take a detour and give a wide berth to the Catholic school on religious days when they were in session because the students would throw stones through the wrought iron fence at Jewish or suspected Jewish kids who walked by on the way to the public school.
Stones handed them by the nuns, by the way.
Origuy
In the Middle Ages, because they weren’t able to take Christian oaths of allegiance, Jews were not able to hold land. Since land was the main source of wealth in the Middle Ages, Jews had to take jobs that involved being paid in coin. Very few people had a lot of cash in those days; Jews became bankers and investors because they had liquidity. Being liquid also meant being mobile, which helped when they had to pick up and move to avoid the purges. They appeared to be rich because they carried a lot of their wealth on their bodies (jewelry, fine clothes) which could be sold in need.
Edward I evicted the Jews from England because he owed them more money than he could replay. One of the few good things Oliver Cromwell did was allow them to return.
J R in WV
@B.B.A.:
Met a couple on our trip, he was originally Swiss and she was originally Austrian. They moved here in 1970. When they got married, she told us, Austria wrote her a letter to tell her she wasn’t Austrian any more, she was Swiss. They both have American citizenship AND Swiss citizenship, and hold both passports. We all thought that was quite patriarchal of then managers of Austrian citizenship rules. They both agreed.