Sergei Skripal, a former Russian spy, appears to have been poisoned with a nerve agent. He and his daughter – also poisoned – are in critical condition in a Salisbury, England hospital. Here’s more about Skripal.
Isn’t this the real reason that Manafort isn’t cooperating? He knows that if he does, he’s dead, and perhaps his family is, too. If that’s Manafort’s reasoning, then maybe Gates is a fool who had better cancel a few more trips. Perhaps Gates doesn’t know enough to make him a target of Putin, but Manafort surely does.
The press in the US seems to be downplaying this as a reason for Manafort’s non-cooperation, but with a possible 14 cases of assassination since Alexander Litvinenko was poisoned with Polonium 210, it sure seems like something that would be on Manafort’s mind.
(Still from DOA)
Elizabelle
Oh. Very sorry for Skripal father and daughter. It is
an alarminga terrible story.Was kinda hoping the DOA was for some harebrained GOP initiative. But it will be, with our resistance …
Think The Guardian reported Skripal bought his house in his name, FWIW all cash a few years ago, and was not hiding his whereabouts. I wonder how much Mueller could protect the Manaforts.
For that matter, the Trumps.
JGabriel
mistermix @ top:
Death by Polonium Tea, or Life in Prison. That’s a hell of a decision to have to make.
Calouste
Skripal’s wife, son, and brother also died in the last few years.
Betty Cracker
Putin today, speaking about his relationship with the US, praised Trump but bitterly denounced the Obama admin’s response to the invasion of Ukraine, saying this:
Welp!
TenguPhule
Cooperating is the only way he gets protective custody though.
Otherwise all three sticks needs to do is imply he got the goods from Manafort and let him go…
Elizabelle
@Calouste: Yes. That was horrible. Wife’s cause of death was endometrial cancer, if memory serves. Not sure what happened to the son. I think we will soon learn more.
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker:
He’s just rubbing it in that he got away with it now.
Anonymous At Work
Manafort being imprisoned for fraud, perjury, maybe criminal contempt, would be in prison for as long as he holds out on Trump/Putin. Do you think, and does he really believe, that he’s safer in prison and that Putin will ignore the incentive Manafort has to spill his guts in return for freedom?
TenguPhule
@JGabriel:
Fuck em.
ruemara
Far too many people connected with this administration are likely to have a terrible horrible shaving accident where they accidentally cut off their heads.
I will, of course, not do much past smirk.
Kenneth Kohl
@TenguPhule:
Very up-vote worthy. Well done, good man.
TenguPhule
@ruemara:
Worst cases of suicide the coroner has ever seen.
Stan
My Sicilian wife has been saying this since the election.
Mike J
The Russians are deeply offended that anybody would connect them with a horrible accident like this.
Parfigliano
Fuck em and their family for generations.
oatler.
Why shouldn’t Manafort visit Britain? See the London Bridge, Big Ben…
Bruce K
@oatler.: …University College London Hospital, Highgate Cemetery…
scav
BBC’s reporting it was a nerve agent used and that a policeman is now critically ill as well.
satby
@Betty Cracker: see, I take that as a threat against President Obama.
Amir Khalid
If Manafort fears for his life, Mueller should offer him protective custody. In a maximum-security federal facility, if that’s what it takes to keep Manafort safe. I’d be okay with that.
schrodingers_cat
@oatler.: May I add, the Tower of London!
Hoodie
He may be willing to take the rap from Mueller to keep his family alive. He, of all people, knows the kind of ruthless criminals he’s dealing with. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy. Manafort may not be that critical to making a case against Trump and crew, as Gates, docs and sigint he has may be sufficient. He may be squeezing Manafort for counterintelligence about Russia in general, as Manafort probably knows a lot about their MO from his work in subverting Ukrainian elections. Mueller’s mandate is broader than just investigation of Trump contacts with Russia.
MJS
The press in the U.S. has been downplaying all of these suspicious deaths via poisoning, etc., and it’s disgusting. They sure as fuck wouldn’t have downplayed it during St. Ronnie’s “Evil Empire” days. Their service to Republican politicians has no limit.
trollhattan
Republicans who are so very “Ha-ha-ha, isn’t Putin a naughty boy, but he fights terrorism and amuses us, so whatevs!” won’t take any of this to heart. They should. Jefferson Beauregard Sessions just wasted everybody’s time here yelling at stupid liberals, instead. Why not spend your time protecting the country instead, Mr. AG?
Brachiator
The Russian presidential election begins March 18. I wonder if this guy … what’s his name …. Putin … is the favored candidate?
trollhattan
@scav:
Holy moly, no downplaying this now. At least in Europe.
Aleta
Can’t help but think about the journalists working in the depths of this story who may be risking their lives. Mueller too, and his team.
Ryan
No wonder the Americans is ending after six seasons. They’re getting scooped by real life.
trollhattan
@Brachiator:
“Too close to call!” CNN
“A real nail-biter!” MSNBC
“But, her emails!” NYT
“We’ve…I mean he’s totally got this.” Fox
Adam L Silverman
Jay C
@MJS:
From stuff I’ve read, even the British press hasn’t been delving too deeply into the string(s) of suspicious deaths of Russians living in the UK. And the reason, supposedly, is that they are being downplayed/backburnered by the Government (who have more leverage over the media than in the US)
The stuff I’ve read is usually fairly vague (of the unsourced “British officials say” variety), but it seems that they are claiming that their Intelligence/police service have been discouraged from digging too deeply into Russian shenanigans*: supposedly as the Government doesn’t want to do anything to jeopardize the billions in Russian investment money which has flowed into Britain in recent years. For which, I guess, the lives of a few ex-pats is a cheap-enough price to pay. Maybe the Skripal case will change things: who knows?
* I realize “shenanigans” is a fairly inapt word to use for “string of political assassinations”. Sorry.
But her emails!!!
1. The Russians are so damned sloppy. When Kim Jong Un offed his brother, I’m not aware of anyone else needing to receive medical attention. In this case, the officer first on the scene was also hospitalized.
2. This shit should get Russia classified as a state sponsor of terrorism in this country and whatever the equivalent is in the EU.
p.a.
You think Vlad couldn’t get him in fed pen? Bet he could.
trollhattan
@Ryan:
So looking forward to its return while dreading the series’ end. Like the Breaking Bad coda its arc is necessary, both because we know what’s coming historically and because of the Jennings’ impending empty nest, and it’s going to leave a huge hole when gone.
Coincidentally, the actress who plays Young Hee Seong was hurt by a car in Brooklyn and her young daughter killed, as was another child. Horrible.
trollhattan
@p.a.:
Everything’s for sale in a prison–inmates and staff alike.
Anonymous At Work
@Hoodie: Do you think Putin cares? As long as Manafort is alive, he can testify. Manafort dying, regardless of how, ends all of it. His only true legitimate “out” is to make it to Russia somehow.
Tom
@Betty Cracker: Regarding Putin’s “those who feed us poison will ingest it themselves”, you would think he would be a little more cognisant of “what we do to others will be what we receive in return.”
Kay
Putin is out flattering Trump. I’m telling you, they all have his number. The way to get what you want is to kiss his ass. He’ll sell us all down the river for the flattery he craves.
FlipYrWhig
@Brachiator: Bernie woulda won.
trollhattan
@Anonymous At Work:
He can cure his “I’m afraid Russia will kill me” fears by running to Russia?
scav
@But her emails!!!: It’s only sloppy if you don’t want to be too obvious — and actually may be preferred if your main goal is to inspire terror and fear. “Not only you but all your loved ones and your little dog too!” See also Putie’s little Poisoned quote earlier. I don’t think truly covert is part of the current strategy.
schrodingers_cat
@Anonymous At Work: So is he Martha (from The Americans), or Kim Phiby
Anonymous At Work
@trollhattan: Yup. In Russia, no extradition possible, he has no incentive to testify against anyone.
Mnemosyne
@Anonymous At Work:
Even that’s not going to be much protection once Manafort becomes too inconvenient.
gwangung
@trollhattan: Dammit. Ruthie.
mozzerb
@Jay C: It should change things, but if the Litvinenko case didn’t I’m not sure this will. Nor is it obvious how to retaliate but not escalate.
@scav: I think when you use stuff like nerve agents and polonium for your targeted killings, as opposed to say “unfortunate road accident”, you’re not going for “covert”. You’re going for “we could come and get you at any time and we have all sorts of interesting ways to do it that are obvious but nominally deniable”.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
Ha! Now that’s good!
trollhattan
@Anonymous At Work:
That only works if and so long as Vlad wants to rub our noses with a shiny pet Manafort. He could instead represent an unwanted loose end. “The call is coming from inside the dacha!”
Just One More Canuck
I wonder if Manafort will get a visit from a Russian version of Tom Hagen
“When a plot against the Emperor failed… the plotters were always given a chance… to let their families keep their fortunes. Right?”
“Yeah, but only the rich guys, Tom. The little guys got knocked off and all their estates went to the Emperors. Unless they went home and killed themselves, then nothing happened. And the families… the families were taken care of”.
“That was a good break. A nice deal.”
“Yeah… They went home… and sat in a hot bath… opened up their veins… and bled to death… and sometimes they had a little party before they did it.”
Calouste
@Adam L Silverman: Liver failure is considered “natural causes” for Russian men, right?
rk
I wonder if there is danger to Mueller as well. He represents the greatest danger to Russians at this point.
Anonymous At Work
@trollhattan: Well, yes. But chances of that are less than the chances Putin decides that a jailed Manafort might turn on him. Let’s get the premise of “Manafort’s not got any good options left” out of the way.
Ridnik Chrome
Late to the thread, but this has been my own take on Manafort almost since the beginning. He knows these people, and he knows their methods. Anything that Mueller can threaten him with, Putin and company can threaten him with worse.
Cheryl Rofer
@Adam L Silverman: Liver failure is the response to a number of poisons.
TenguPhule
@Cheryl Rofer: Including wood alcohol.
rikyrah
Could homeless parents have done more for kids?
Paloma Esquivel
JOSHUA TREE, Calif. — It started as a child’s fort — some plywood and a tin roof on a five-acre desert plot, put together by a homeless boy whose parents had long planned to build a home on the land.
There was one room at first, a place where the boy and his younger sister could play store, said their mother, Mona Kirk. Then the boy wanted a room for himself, she said. His older brother wanted one, too.
Stuffed with mattresses, toys and other furniture, the four-foot-tall fort grew to about 200 square feet. Over time, the family would sleep there occasionally, when they weren’t sleeping outside or in a home in town the father cared for.
“His father checked it out to make sure it was safe for us to be in there,” Kirk said. “The children were always safe.”
San Bernardino County sheriff’s deputies who came across Kirk, 51, her husband, Daniel Panico, 73, and their three children last week saw it differently. Kirk and Panico were arrested and charged with child abuse; the children, ages 11, 13 and 14, were removed by Children and Family Services.
On Tuesday, a San Bernardino County Superior Court judge ordered that the parents, who had been held on $300,000 bail, be released on their own recognizance.
They walked out of the sheriff’s Morongo Basin Station in the late morning and were greeted by dozens of supporters who carried signs saying “Being Homeless is not a Crime.” Kirk and Panico said they were relieved to be free. But they each still face three felony counts of child abuse and their children remain in county custody.
The case has raised questions about the responsibilities of homeless parents, as well as the duties of law enforcement officials who encounter families in precarious circumstances. It comes at a time when homeless advocates say it is increasingly difficult for struggling families to find homes in this popular tourist destination.
Peggy Stewart, an adjunct professor of social work at the University of Southern California and an expert in child abuse, said it is important to know whether the parents could have done more to provide for their family.
“The key is were these kids put at risk unnecessarily?” she said. “Because the living conditions obviously don’t rise to the standards of a quality of life that a child deserves. So what did the parents do to mitigate that situation? Did they seek out help?”
“If they didn’t avail themselves of the resources out there and they had the capacity to do so, then they were negligent,” she said.
TenguPhule
@Ridnik Chrome:
Mueller can threaten to let him go without protective custody.
Cheryl Rofer
@TenguPhule: Yes, a recurring problem in Russia. But I’ll guess that it was a more exotic poison that leaves few traces, like one that was used on another Russian expat a while back.
rikyrah
Betsy DeVos visits Parkland school, angers shooting survivors
New York Daily News
Jessica Schladebeck
Education Secretary Betsy DeVos made a contentious visit to the site of last month’s Florida school shooting Wednesday, in which she was criticized by survivors and abruptly walked out of her own press conference.
DeVos spent the morning at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, where former student Nikolas Cruz gunned down 17 students and teachers on Valentine’s Day. Her visit immediately sparked criticism and backlash from shooting survivors and advocates on social media.
“Do something unexpected: answer our questions,” Aly Sheehy tweeted at DeVos. “You came to our school just for publicity and avoided our questions for the 90 minutes you were actually here. How about you do your job?”
No Drought No More
A few minutes ago on MSNBC, their legal analyst Matt (sorry Matt, I’ve never caught your last name) mentioned that Trump “needs to step up and do the right thing about Russia” (I paraphrase, but that was the gist) Matt will be lucky if he isn’t paid a visit by the secret service later today, because “doing the right thing” under the circumstance would require someone to scrape Trump’s brain off the wall after his suicide. The man is a traitor to our country. Matt may as well publicly call for a chihuahua to recite the sonnets of Shakespeare, as I suspect he damn well knows. It’s like the 2003 plot to war unfolding all over again- everyone who knows the score is keeping their mouth shut.
schrodingers_cat
@trollhattan: I hope there is less of Holly of the arched eyebrows, this year. I can’t stand her, she has only two expressions, bewildered and sad.
danielx
@Anonymous At Work:
Nope. From what I understand, it’s easier to have somebody hit in (most) prisons today than it is outside. This would not apply to a Supermax location, but it’s unlikely Manafort would be sentenced to such.
Jamey
I have a pet theory about Manafort co-conspirator, Roger Stone: Russian poison is afraid of HIM.
danielx
@Jamey:
Could well be; a rattlesnake would die if it bit Roger Stone.
NotMax
@Cheryl Rofer
Also can occur from non-exotic sources. Acetaminophen plus alcohol or just overdose of acetaminophen, for example.
But her emails!!!
@scav:
If I recall correctly, the NK assassination was done in the middle of a crowded international airport.. It was hardly covert. What it did avoid was actually injuring people who weren’t the target.
Steve in the SFO
@But her emails!!!:
There are trade offs with the different methods. I don’t know how often you have to make a decision on which method to use, but it’s very stressful.
scav
@But her emails!!!: And I’m saying, the assumption that only one single person was ‘the’ target may be unwarrented. Especially for family members. Even for others if “terror” and messaging is the basic objective.
Amir Khalid
@But her emails!!!:
As I recall, it was a fairly normal day at KL International Airport, which has a very spacious main concourse. It wasn’t a peak traffic period like Haj week.
trollhattan
@Anonymous At Work:
Not my read, I think he has to cut a Mueller deal but time will tell on that.
trollhattan
@Amir Khalid:
I’m rather amazed the assassins survived openly handling nerve agent. Gloves schmoves, it kills with the slightest contact or inhalation.
bystander
The news about Ruthie Ann Miles was indeed sad.
D.O.A. is one of my favorites. But it differs here in that the central conceit is that the victim is innocent. Manafort is anything but innocent. By the time Edmund O’Brien and Pamela Britton have their liebestod number, you really feel deeply for them both. No sympathy for Manafort. Zero. None.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@satby: That’s kind of how I read it too.
Boatboy_srq
@Elizabelle: Is it wrong to be not particularly interested in protecting these fvckweasels? Similarly, should we be wondering whether ZEGS-and-Turtle-and-all are playing along because they don’t like the taste of polonium tea either?
Tokyokie
@NotMax: Acetaminophen can cause severe liver damage, but the damage is usually cumulative. It wouldn’t do as a fast-acting poison.
TenguPhule
@Boatboy_srq:
No, its not wrong.
Adam L Silverman
@Calouste: Da!
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Why yes, yes it is.
Tokyokie
@bystander: D.O.A. is indeed a great movie. O’Brien’s character is targeted for murder for simply notarizing a bill of sale; even the mundane business of a solidly middle-class denizen is hardly safe from the rot at the heart of society. Unfortunately, the film has fallen into public domain, and none of the versions of it currently available are particularly good. Criterion needs to assemble a good version of it and release it on Blu-ray.
Boatboy_srq
@Betty Cracker: [breaks out last-century gender-stereotypes] Curious how Mister Butch Chest-Thumping He-Man Leader there resorts so quickly and so frequently to poison as the assassination method of choice. Makes you think he’s too insecure to go for the old-fashioned stiletto-in-a-dark-alley or massive-car-bomb or convenient drive-by-shooting.
evodevo
@Cheryl Rofer: One specific one I can think of is the deadly Amanita mushroom – takes a week or two to kill, via liver failure. You don’t even know until it’s WAY too late, and the only remedy is a liver transplant…
Roger Moore
@Cheryl Rofer:
For some reason, the one that immediately sprang to mind was amatoxin. It would be a good choice for plausible deniability, especially since many Russians eat wild mushrooms.
NotMax
@Tokyokie
Just mentioning it can lead to liver failure. In a relatively short span of days, if a sufficient overdose. Terrible and painful way to go.
As for liver damage, there have been reports that 50% of all cases of liver damage recorded in U.S. hospitals can be traced to acetaminophen.
Cheryl Rofer
@evodevo: Gelsimium is what I was thinking of – too lazy to search earlier.
Anonymous At Work
@trollhattan: There’s no way for Manafort to get to Russia, so he has to cut a deal for protective custody, presumably Witness Protection, etc. Right now, being on the outside of all of it, Manafort’s gambling that he can skate long enough for Trump to save him.
Brachiator
@bystander:
As a kid in Texas seeing this movie on TV, I always thought the name of one of the minor characters was fun to say out loud: Marla Rakubian.
@Boatboy_srq:
Well, no one has really been threatened, yet. But they are important to the extent that what they have to say may lead to Trump and others.
Adam L Silverman
@evodevo: @Roger Moore: @NotMax: @Cheryl Rofer: We’re clearly going to need a Late Night: Pick Your Favorite Poison Open Thread!
TenguPhule
@Boatboy_srq:
London is quite strict about guns. And car bombs are a poor choice in this terrorism age.
And knives are slow and messy.
Cheryl Rofer
@Adam L Silverman: Liver failure has many possible causes.
EBT
I would assume that Mueller would make the court cases bankrupt Manafort as well. Between court costs, fines, and surrendering illegally obtained value, his family should absolutely be threatened with ended up in the dirt if he refuses to play ball.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Favorite little moment from I, Claudius: “Don’t eat the figs.”
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman:
For enemies or self-inflicted?
danielx
@Boatboy_srq:
What happened to the good old days? Burying an ice axe in Trotsky’s head had style.
bystander
@Tokyokie: You’re right about the bad prints of DOA. Detour prints seem to have fared better. Still my favorite noir double bill.
But her emails!!!
@scav:
So your belief is that the first police officer to the scene was also a target? If that’s the case, wouldn’t a direct attack against a UK citizen by a foreign agent be an act of war?
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: Reader’s choice!
NotMax
@bystander
Haven’t looked but might be available at the TCM store. Print they show on air is good.
Mnemosyne
@Tokyokie:
It used to be a popular suicide method in the UK until they changed the packaging from bottles to blister packs. It can kill you from an acute dose, but it’s a big dose and not really something that can be delivered without the victim knowing.
bystander
@Brachiator:
Laurette Luez’s greatest role! Also the relatively rare chance to see Luther Adler. Neville Brand’s sadistic hired gun performance gives “over the top” new meaning.
Noskilz
But in Manafort’s case, isn’t the witness protection program still a thing? if he really knows too much for Putin’s taste, what makes him imagine his discretion is going to be part of the math at all? Prison doesn’t sound like a particularly safe place for an elderly screw-up who may have outlived his usefulness, even without the international intrigue angle.
scav
@But her emails!!!: I classed him as the other, sort of the acceptable collateral damage in their estimation. My assumption quite frankly taking into account Putin’s apparently caring less and less about worrying himself over the reaction of the UK and others given the numbers of accidents he’s racking up, his recent comments and his so far getting away with it all.
Brachiator
@TenguPhule:
@NotMax:
All this murder talk reminds me of Hitchcock’s “Shadow of a Doubt,” and the neighbors who talk about how to get away with the perfect murder, while a real murderer is among them.
Weaselone
@scav: got it. I agree. Putin doesn’t care enough to prevent collateral damage.
frosty
@TenguPhule: Dorothy Parker (from memory)
Razors pain you
Rivers are damp
Acids stain you
And drugs cause cramp
Gas smells awful
Nooses give
Guns aren’t lawful
You might as well live
germy
@frosty: Someone quoted this suicide method on twitter:
Amir Khalid
@trollhattan:
Their deaths would have been a glorious sacrifice in the service of the
Royal FamilyRepublic, I’m sure. Besides, Jong-Un has other assassins so it wouldn’t have been any great loss to him.Tazj
@MJS: Yes, I keep hearing things in the press like Putin isn’t some kind of super villian. Well no, he isn’t, he’s mortal but he certainly has caused a lot of death and destruction in the world.
germy
@Amir Khalid: What happened to those two women from the airport? The ones that jumped Jong-Un’s relative… are they serving prison sentences? I haven’t seen any followup stories about a trial or conviction.
trollhattan
@Noskilz:
Surely there’s an Ecuadorian embassy somewhere that would host Paulie. Thinking his mug is a little too well known for witness protection.
Mnemosyne
@Noskilz:
Manafort is assuming he’s going to skate just like he has every time he’s been in legal jeopardy before.
We’re all hoping he’s wrong.
Gin & Tonic
@danielx: It would have had style, except Mercader didn’t actually bury the axe in Trotsky’s head.
TenguPhule
@germy: They’re on trial last I heard. No word on conviction so may still be ongoing.
Gin & Tonic
@Boatboy_srq: The old fashioned methods are still used quite frequently in Russia and in Ukraine.
germy
@TenguPhule: I found it interesting they claimed they had no idea what they were really doing. They claimed they were told they were participating in a prank.
Don’t know if this is true. One of them said she vomited after the incident. Apparently absorbed some of the poison.
JR
@TenguPhule: While I would love to see Manafort spend the rest of his days in solitary, I mean protective custody, I’m not sure that appeals too much to him.
Kay
“No disappointment at all” Interesting word choice.
germy
@Kay:
It almost sounds like he’s filling out a “customer satisfaction” survey.
Or a Yelp review. “Four stars. Would definitely interfere again.”
TenguPhule
@germy: Interestingly all the North Koreans involved fled the country fast via their embassy. The women on trial are native Malaysians. I’m inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt since as far as assassinations go, it really was balls to the wall insane in concept.
Kay
@germy:
Oh, he’ll interfere again. Succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.
That’s the part that’s hard for me to accept- how easy it was. All these years we’ve been trained to be terrified of intruders and these people waltzed in and took our election without breaking a sweat.
Gin & Tonic
@Kay: I’d have to see his exact words, but there are gradations of “totally not disappointed,” “extremely not disappointed” and the like that are more complimentary than they sound in English. Where’s gogol’s wife when you need her for the literary analysis?
prostratedragon
@bystander:
Makes one think about who would hire such an unfortunate boy.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
One third of the country unlocked the gates and let them in.
Gravenstone
@scav: VX is the most persistent nerve agent in wide use. It also easily gains entrance to the body via skin absorption. This was the agent used to kill Kim Jong Un’s half brother. If multiple people were affected, it was likely applied to a commonly used item that each individual might have handled.
Gin & Tonic
@danielx: So this prompted me to look it up. From Sudoplatov:
AnonPhenom
@Cheryl Rofer:
for your list…
SiubhanDuinne
@germy:
And for more generalized use, it’s easy enough to replace “Chris Cilizza” with “Donald Trump.”
Gravenstone
@trollhattan: VX isn’t terribly volatile. And if the formulation were gelled in some fashion, that makes aerosol dispersion much less likely. I believe they applied it via a swab to his face, so avoiding skin contact themselves should have been the primary precaution.
SiubhanDuinne
@Gin & Tonic:
That looks as though it should be the brand name of a patent medicine, a combination decongestant and antiaggregant. Definitely a pharmaceutical that shouldn’t pass the FYWP banned list.
AnonPhenom
….BuzzFeed was following the trail of dead Russians last June…
Gin & Tonic
@SiubhanDuinne: Pavel Sudoplatov, legendary NKVD/KGB operative, director of the “Administration for Special Tasks.”
Chet Murthy
@scav: _Smiley’s People_:
Smiley: “The weapon used to kill Vladimir was a standard Moscow Centre assassination device,” Smiley said. “Concealed in a camera, a brief-case, or whatever. A soft-nosed bullet is fired at point-blank range. To obliterate, to punish, and to discourage others.”
Mike in DC
This may all end with Putin face down in a bowl of borscht.
gene108
@Elizabelle:
I doubt it. Putin takes his time whacking people. The guy, who just got hit was free and clear for 7-8 years.
I wonder, if Putin would try to whack Trump. And if he did, would Republicans care, if Putin kept interfering in our elections in their behalf.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic: “No, I have no disappointment and cannot have. On a purely human level he produced a very good impression on me. It seems to me that he is deliberate — but for all the ‘epatazhnost’ [from épater] of his behavior, to which he apparently became accustomed in his earlier life and type of activity, when we talked about business, he digs into the problems, he communicates, he listens to his interlocutor. You can make a deal with him, I see, you can come to some sort of compromises with him.”
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic:
But of course razocharovanie can also be disillusionment.
zhena gogolia
@Tazj:
Uh, yeah, he is.
SiubhanDuinne
@Gin & Tonic:
Oh, I know. I was just reacting to his name is all.
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia: It sounds like he was answering a direct question that used the word razocharovanie:
Chet Murthy
@gene108:
I’ve been wondering about this. This guy was -exchanged- for 10 Russian spies. Why kill him now? It just invites reprisals, and bloody ones. I’d think that there’s some sort of “law of war” at play here, that prevents even spies from going too far amok. For fear that their adversaries will do the same.
I can believe that this killing was a warning to Manafort et al. But I have difficulty believing either of (a) Putin couldn’t have found somebody else to whack, or (b) Putin actually planned all along to whack this guy.
But I’d love to be educated on the subject.
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia: Well, I posted his original words and got moderated – don’t know if there’s anyone around to free that comment. But if you check at this link, it sounds like he was answering a direct question.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic:
I’m not seeing the question. He obviously is answering a question, because the quotation begins with “Nyet,” but I don’t have time to go look at the film, if it’s even available, to try to see what the question was. I assume it was, “Are you disappointed in Trump?” I just literally translated what was there in the RIA Novosti article.
Gin & Tonic
@Chet Murthy: John Schindler may not be to everyone’s taste, but here’s his take on the matter.
Tazj
@zhena gogolia: I agree, he certainly is an evil villain. I guess I was making a reference to a couple recent interviews I’ve heard on NPR from journalists that are American but have spent a good part of their career in Russia. These journalists were saying that we were giving too much credit to Putin for the political chaos that was happening on the U.S., and he wasn’t some super genius that’s behind every problem, and besides he’s getting older and won’t live forever. They seemed to think it was foolish to waste so much time worrying about Putin and making him more influential than he is.
I disagree with this, I realize that he’s not some all powerful cartoon super villain, but he doesn’t have to be, and he certainly rolled us when we ended up with Trump. He ‘s certainly causing all kinds of other havoc in the world in addition to murdering whoever gets in his way.
Steeplejack
@SiubhanDuinne:
I thought a sudoplatov was one of those odd Australian mammals that lay eggs.
Steeplejack
If anyone’s still interested, D.O.A. is available in three editions from TCM. No way to tell which is best. The publishers are listed for those who want to do further research.