I Can’t Believe These Things Still Exist

Well that didn’t go well.

After being turned away from the 2016 caucus because they couldn’t handle the crowds, today I actually made it through the door. Thirty minutes later, I left in disgust. There were 4 people in my “precinct”, three who knew each other and me. We were suppose to talk and vote for an hour + ??? Like anything I may or may not have to say about a candidate was going to be of consequence.

There was no information about the candidates to study, except for brief statements at the beginning of the process (two-minutes per person – representatives for each candidate). With the exception of one of the candidates for governor, I had no idea who anyone was, their experience or their platform (even though, I’m on the state Dem email list and received numerous emails about tonight’s debacle – a list of who’s who would have been nice). And yet, I was suppose to make some kind of informed decision? These are our state representatives. WTF?

As many have pointed out – this process makes it difficult for working people, parents with little kids, shift workers…and anyone with any sense of self-preservation.

The only reason I believe the Colorado Democratic Party continues with these ridiculous abominations to democracy, is because they LIKE having very few people in control who makes it onto the ballot.

I’d say that was end of rant, but I’m still so angry, I’m in the kitchen chopping vegetables because it seems the only safe way to vent my stabby tendencies at the moment.

I’m out of can’t evens….

101 replies
  1. 1
    danielx says:

    The game is rigged, folks!

    let’s not say rigged, but….I can’t think of a way to finish this sentence.

  2. 2
    ๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท says:

    Caucuses are stupid and undemocratic. Why were they ever used?

  3. 3
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Sounds like a revolution is needed.

  4. 4
    ๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    You mean Our Revolution is needed?

    I’ll see myself out.

  5. 5

    The only reason I believe the Colorado Democratic Party continues with these ridiculous abominations to democracy, is because they LIKE having very few people in control who makes it onto the ballot.

    And for the most part you are correct.

  6. 6
    opiejeanne says:

    You have my deepest sympathy, no snark at all.

    I was so excited to participate in my first caucus in WA before the 2016 and was so very annoyed by the process and how unfair it really is. I hope WA gets rid of the process entirely and converts to a proper primary.

  7. 7
    danielx says:

    WTF? did a front page post just vanish?

  8. 8
    Another Scott says:

    @danielx: Cole’s Twitter feed says: Yes!

    Presumably it will be back…


  9. 9
    chris says:

    G. Elliott Morris ๐Ÿ“ˆ ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ

    1h1 hour ago
    With THREE PERCENT of precincts reporting (+ early vote), Texas Democrats have cast more votes than they did in the ENTIRETY of 2014 voting. Thatโ€™s just nuts. Havenโ€™t ever seen something like this. Link

  10. 10
  11. 11
    Matt McIrvin says:

    Every time I try to remember who I voted for in the 1992 Democratic presidential primary, and then remember that I didn’t because I was out of state and they had a damn caucus, I remember to hate caucuses again.

  12. 12
    chris says:

    @Major Major Major Major: 38% reporting now and the numbers are huge. In a primary! O’Rourke vs Cruz is gonna be good.

  13. 13
    Gen says:

    Oh. You were in Pueblo West, too

  14. 14
    ๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท says:


  15. 15
    Mnemosyne says:

    Here in CA, we have primaries, and we like it that way. ๐Ÿ™ƒ


    Someone was saying in the thread below that something like 3 times more Republicans than Democrats voted (800K Republicans to 250K Democrats)?

    I think somebody somewhere is reading the numbers wrong.

  16. 16
    Mary G says:

    Perhaps a letter to the editor?

  17. 17
    ๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท says:

    It won’t be over till it’s over.

  18. 18
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne: Someone was a troll. Called out there too.

  19. 19
    efgoldman says:


    I hope WA gets rid of the process entirely and converts to a proper primary.

    Does CO have caucus+primary (the same way MA has a convention that’s not binding, then a primary)?

  20. 20
    patroclus says:

    @Mnemosyne: It’s currently Republicans at 1.1 million and Dems at 700,000. Perhaps y’all should temper a bit of your excitement. (And I’m not trolling). It’s impressive that the Dems have improved so much, but Texas is still red.

  21. 21
  22. 22
    ๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Yeah, it’s more streamlined.

  23. 23
    stinger says:

    @danielx: Two of ’em! C’mon, front pagers — we can handle it! Multiple posts within a short period of time are just fine! Especially since I want to go to bed but would love to read of the imminent demise of Roger Stone first.

  24. 24
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Mnemosyne: It’s about 1,100,000 Republicans to 700,000 Democrats now:


    Late urban reporting will even out those numbers some more, because more Democrats than Republicans are voting in the cities, though I don’t know if it will reverse the Republican voting lead.

  25. 25
    chris says:

    @Mnemosyne: 1.149 million R vs 750K D right now with 50% reporting.

    Note to self: Read the thread.

  26. 26
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Get IDs to people in Milwaukee and WI is bright blue again.*

    *Yes, i am working in it.

  27. 27
  28. 28
    Mike J says:

    Caucuses suck.

  29. 29
    Sab says:

    I worked really hard on campaigns as a volunteer when I was in high school. I went door to door for months canvassing in primaries and general elections in Ohio in the 1970s. I always voted, even absentee, when I had to get my ballot notarized to vote in Ohio.

    A few years later I moved to Michigan, which had caucuses. Went to one caucus. Butted heads with the old union guys. Soured me completely on unions and voting. Didn’t vote again until Jesse Jackson’s guys registered me to vote somewhere.

    I hate caucuses with a passion.

  30. 30
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @patroclus: The early returns were dominated by sparsely-populated rural districts where Republican voters outnumber Democrats sometimes by factors like 50 to 1. But the cities are predominantly Democratic and aren’t fully in yet. I suspect there will still be more Republican votes by the end of the night, but it won’t be as big a margin as that.

  31. 31
    Starfish says:

    I was in a caucus precinct in Colorado that functioned well. I am in the largest precinct in the People’s Republic. We had 39 people show up and caucus in our precinct that probably has 1200 voters. Our precinct captain had been precinct captain for many years, and he had already selected someone to count the voters. He also had a 20-second spiel on every single candidate in case no one spoke for the candidates. I knew a few people at the meeting including our mayor pro-temp, his wife who runs a committee for the NAACP, and a couple of people that I have met at Indivisible meetings in my neighborhood.

    Our precinct was more for Kennedy than Polis for governor. We also had some opinions on some other offices, but I don’t remember what they were. They were non-binding anyway so I have no clue why we bothered.

    There was someone trying to take a petition to be part of the state platform. Some people are pushing state banking in Colorado. They want us to divest from J. P. Morgan and possibly Wells Fargo.

    We had 10 delegates who are going to district. The Kennedy camp had six delegates. I think they were possibly all women.

    I met a candidate for district attorney on the way out, and I told him that caucuses are stupid.

  32. 32
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Sab: Soured you on unions? Please explain.

  33. 33
    piratedan says:

    facebook is posting that Sanders’ stepdaughter has lost her bid to extend the family trade

  34. 34
    efgoldman says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I suspect there will still be more Republican votes by the end of the night

    Sorry, we have to wait until Dixville Notch comes in.

  35. 35
    Mnemosyne says:


    That’s still not as bad as what someone else (not patroclus) was saying in the thread below. It seriously was, like, 500k more Republicans, not 200k more.

    It sounds like turnout is high all around since all of the stories keep talking about “record” Democratic turnout but the Republican numbers are even higher.

  36. 36
    Jay says:


    After surviving thousands of Derp State assassination attempts, a bad case of Polonium?

  37. 37
    efgoldman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Soured you on unions? Please explain.

    I expect s/he really means “Soured me on old, fat, beer swilling white guys who voted for FDR and haven’t changed an opinion since Patton died.”

  38. 38
    patroclus says:

    @Mnemosyne: I’m not the best at links, but it’s http://www.nytimes.com/electio.....y-election. Currently – Republican (1.215); Dem (719). Matt’s right – that should even out some, but probably not by 500,000. The thing is – all the local county judge, mayor and other races are decided in the Republican primaries and even my parents sometimes vote in them although they always vote Dem generally in November so that they can actually affect local affairs. Only in the cities and the Latino areas are the Dem primaries big deals. That’s improved this primary, but not so much as to turn Texas blue or purple.

    Someone’s gonna yell at me for linking to the FTNYFT.:-)

  39. 39
    ๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท says:

    I just looked that place up. 12 fucking people live there.

  40. 40
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Mnemosyne: Even in all these special elections that Democrats are swinging, the Republicans are turning out–if anything, by more than usual. They’re not discouraged. It’s just that Democratic numbers are up even more.

  41. 41
    Sab says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Those guys were utter assholes. Entitled middle-aged white males. Nobody in the world mattered but them. This was during the Volker recession, when creative thinking was needed. But no, they had their union job and lots of seniority, and phuck everyone else including the younger union guys. I am convinced that they came to the Democratic caucus, and then voted for Reagan and his cronies.

  42. 42
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @efgoldman: Did they vote D?

  43. 43
    Waratah says:

    In local, county and state positions only republicans are running. They like to vote for favorites for county treasurer, judge etc. In my part of Texas a Democrat is a rare sighting. I saw a post on Beto’s Facebook that someone posted she would vote republican in primary but he would have her vote in the election.

  44. 44
    efgoldman says:

    @๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท:

    12 fucking people live there.

    Ayup. But native New Englanders like Matt and me know that the Boston and North media make a fetish out of reporting their returns.
    I’m sure Matt and MomSense and others got the joke right away.
    If you have to explain the punch line….

  45. 45
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @patroclus: Also, it looks like in the heavily Latino areas in the southwest, Beto O’Rourke isn’t the leading candidate, Sema Hernandez is. I wonder if turnout in the general will be as high there for O’Rourke.

  46. 46
    JCJ says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Yes, i am working in it.

    Any recommended avenues to help?

  47. 47
    efgoldman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Did they vote D?

    Nevah have, nevah will. Ayup.

  48. 48

    @Starfish: Gosh wouldn’t it be nice if there was a way all 1200 voters could participate. I wonder what that would be…hmmmm. There must be a way. Let me think….

  49. 49
    Sab says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I was already a bit sceptical about unions when Walter Ruther went so rabidly pro Vietnam war, when his union members kids were the majority of the draftees.

  50. 50
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @efgoldman: Yes, though I am definitely not a native New Englander. (Grew up in Northern Virginia but I still talk like I stepped out of Cleveland, thanks to living there for about a year and a half during a crucial language-forming period.)

  51. 51
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @JCJ: Go through Tammy. She will help.

  52. 52
    Mnemosyne says:


    Do you guys have closed primaries or open ones? I’m wondering how many independents you have who were not able to vote today. ๐Ÿค”

    Also, I wouldn’t despair too much on House and/or state legislature seats. Those will really be fought district-by-district, so the statewide numbers may not be indicative of how specific districts will go if local Democrats put in the work.

  53. 53
    barb 2 says:

    WA state has both. The Caucus is rigged. asshole Bernie “won” the caucus – Clinton (my President) won the primary.

    I figured out that I am a Primary Democrat and never ever a Caucus Dem. Anyone can walk in and “vote” in the caucus. No proof required (like living in the caucus district).

    There is nothing democratic about a caucus.

  54. 54
    JCJ says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Thanks, I will!

  55. 55
    Waratah says:

    @patroclus: I did not see your post before I posted almost the same thing.

  56. 56
    Starfish says:

    @TaMara (HFG): Last time, I let my husband go and feel his Bern. I sat at home with my child and laughed at the people sitting in the traffic jam outside our caucusing place. I was going to vote for whoever was the not-Trump.

    This was the first time I have ever caucused. I had not intended to, but my husband said that since I was so involved in all the local political stuff, I should probably go. I still think it is garbage and would prefer a primary.

  57. 57
    ๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท says:

    I sort of figured that when I found out Butfuck Crack was in New Hampshire on account of their primary being first in the country during presidential years.

  58. 58
    Feathers says:

    What a shame. I remember the Virginia caucuses of my childhood as being fun. They were Saturday morning, at the high school, kids came along as observers, and basically ran around or went out to the playground. There were bake sales. People made up cheers for their candidates and loudly called out for people to come join them as candidates got knocked out of the contest. To vote, you went and stood with everyone else who was voting for a candidate, so much heckling and get over here-ing went on. Iโ€™m sure this would be my idea of hell now, but with my parents and their friends, it was great.

    Of course, this was a place where before the Voters Rights Act, white people who
    moved to town got the notice of what morning to come to City Hall at 8am to register to vote. That started my motherโ€™s involvement in the League of Women Voters, still going strong over 50 years later.

    So the caucuses had a point, but times have moved on.

  59. 59
    patroclus says:

    @Matt McIrvin: And Abbott is getting more votes singly than all Dems combined for Guvnor. And Valdez and White are headed for a run-off in the Dem primary. I’d say that this was a mediocre result for the Dems in Texas tonight. I’m not trying to be Debbie Downer and I hope y’all keep up your optimism, but Texas is quite red. Cruz is cruising…

  60. 60
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Sab: We will have to agree to disagree about unions. Or we can fight. Your choice.

  61. 61
    Sab says:

    @Sab: I just slandered/libeled Walter Ruether. He backed Nixon. George Meany is who I meant to lambast.

  62. 62
    patroclus says:

    @Waratah: No worries – it’s nice to have re-inforcement. That’s just the way it is in my formerly home state. I am rooting hard for Catherine Krantz in Tx-4 to beat Ratcliffe in November though. And I’m hoping Beto can get within single digits.

    And, on topic, I like the Texas prima-caucus the best of all election systems – I miss the caucuses living in Illinois. CannaBISS! CannaBISS!

  63. 63
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท: Dixville Notch and Hart’s Location are the two tiny New Hampshire villages that make a fetish of voting at the crack of midnight when Election Day begins, so for the big presidential elections the political media always report their numbers as a wacky human-interest story/reading of tea leaves. First votes in America! Quaint flinty Yankee traditions! etc.

  64. 64
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Sab: Feh.

  65. 65
    ๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท says:

    There’s nothing wrong with unions as a concept. Like anything else, they are only as good as the members and leaders that make them up.

  66. 66
  67. 67
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท: The thing that strikes me is that so many software guys of my acquaintance jump directly from some bad experience with a union to declaring that unions serve no purpose and should be abolished. They wouldn’t say the same thing about corporations, even though they’ve undoubtedly had a shitty experience with a corporation.

  68. 68
    ๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท says:

    What’s the scoop? I don’t personally know much about them yet.

  69. 69
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @patroclus: I guess it’s a question of “relative to what?” O’Rourke actually winning seems like kind of a remote possibility, but my understanding is that in these Texas Democratic midterm primaries, usually people don’t show up to anything like this extent. I’m thinking in terms of Texas maybe flipping blue sometime in the next 20 years.

  70. 70
    Czanne says:

    @๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท: Because back in the day before women got the vote, it was an excuse for the menfolk to get together and drink. I know CO Caucus has 120 year history, so that puts it at 1898. (I may be wrong, but it has all of the hallmarks of a tradition established by wealthy men.)

    So, for another Boulder County L city report… Itโ€™s stupid and anti democratic and elitist and I attend caucus because I know too many people who canโ€™t afford to go.

    Spouse and I were definitely on the far youngest side of the curve for ours, and weโ€™re 42 and 47. No young adults except campaign volunteers, no parent-age people. Ours was a sea of grey above white faces, despite this being Boulder Countyโ€™s biggest concentration of poor and brown people. Many of the candidates couldnโ€™t bother to find someone to speak on their behalf. The Bernardbros sent This One Guy to speak for all the Bernardbro candidates. (Made it easy to dismiss him…) Given that 2016โ€™s caucuses were a shitshow because of the Bernardbros, Iโ€™m wondering if these poor deluded fools have a form of memory loss.

    My precinct person is a passive-aggressive asshat. Yes, the Republicans are even more anti-democratic. (They charge admission for their caucuses.) Just because theyโ€™re worse doesnโ€™t mean we canโ€™t be better.

    Oh, and County (which is the whole self-sustaining purpose of this electoral Ponzi scheme) is on a Saturday (so excludes observant Jews and Adventists) and the same day as the March For Our Lives (so excludes activists & young people.) I now remember why I donโ€™t participate in the BoCoDems anymore.

    I live-tweeted my caucus. Itโ€™s not pretty.

  71. 71
    Sab says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I like unions when they support their members. In my experience they support the older members at the expense of the youngsters, who are the ones who need protection. Two tiered wages etc.

    Also, American unions (unlike their European counterparts) have fought tooth and nail to make sure that only union members have protections like mandated health care benefits. If you don’t join a union you got nothing. But I work in an industry where unionization isn’t feasible. So they had no interest in my issues.

  72. 72
    Sab says:

    @๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท: You got health insurance? That’s them. (pre-Obamacare)

  73. 73
    patroclus says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Exactly! I would describe most Texas primary nights in the last 25 years as either “awful,” “catastrophic,” “disastrous” or either an “utter fiasco” or a “deplorable debacle.” I think we moved up to “mediocre” tonight. Yay us!!

  74. 74
    ๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท says:

    @Matt McIrvin:
    Human nature is the problem. And those people think they’re special snowflakes who will never be replaced by a machine. They don’t understand that all of gains workers have gained can be taken away. People died for them, over a hundred years ago.

  75. 75
    ๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท says:

    @Sab: Part-timers don’t unless they work 30 hrs a week for a year. However, all PT members get free dental and vision insurance after a year. So that’s something.

  76. 76

    @Starfish: I just re-read my comment – I was being crabby still about the process, and just to be clear it was not directed at you. I’m glad you had a good experience. :-) I think in a perfect world they could be fun, productive and a great way to meet your neighbors…

    See this comment as a good example: @Feathers:

  77. 77

    @Czanne: Oh, I am so sorry I missed your live tweeting, it might have helped dissipate this sustained rage I’ve been nursing all night (chopping veggies did not help – though now dinner is prepped for tomorrow).

  78. 78
    Sab says:

    @๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท: That’s something. My guess is they aren’t paying you enough to afford your own glases/contacts or dental work. Seems like nothing until you are facing the hundreds of dollars in dental or optic bills.

  79. 79
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Matt McIrvin: …Also there are several other towns that try to do the Dixville Notch thing (NH allows it for all towns with fewer than 100 people, if they want to do it), but Dixville Notch and sometimes Hart’s Location seem to get the most attention just from weird media tradition.

  80. 80
    ๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท says:

    You would be correct. My current pay rate is $8.55. Which I’m fine with right now.

  81. 81
    Czanne says:

    @Matt McIrvin: You know, funny thing. I was tech-associated back in the early 1990s. I was tech-writing for an ISP and a semi-small software and hardware shop, back when those three things were often in the same umbrella. I was absolutely part-time, still an undergrad. About half the staff in the three leaves of the clover had come from one of the industry giants, and most of them had been burnt-out by the awful hours, terrible management, lack of employee bargaining power…

    They tried to unionize, and apparently, a lot of shops tried to get representation in the early 1990s. None of the nationals would provide help, guidance and representation to this new software industry. Telecom would talk to some of the ISP folk, but not most. The service union didnโ€™t consider software a service. AFL-CIO didnโ€™t see office jobs in their model. And so on. Brand new industry, ready to be defined and organized, and the unions didnโ€™t want our dues and numbers because they couldnโ€™t figure out how to integrate a bunch of geeks.

    I read a lot of tech press in those days, because I was trying to learn the voice. Before about 1995, tech press ran extremely socialist-left-anarchist, with a pro-union bent; 2600 and the zines were the strong voices. From about 1995-2000, that shifted hard right, first to left-libertarian, then right-libertarian. That kind of shift is an emotional reaction to betrayal and abandonment. It got incorporated into geek culture.

  82. 82
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท: A lot of educated professionals have internalized the idea that they have to care about getting the work done foremost and just trust that reasonable pay, benefits and hours will be taken care of. Things like rules about who can move a step stool around, and getting urged not to work too fast because you’re making the other guys look bad, all that strikes them as anathema.

    In practice, if you’re lucky enough to be an in-demand educated professional in US tech industry, that’s a good attitude to have. It works pretty well, for the most part.

    Right up until the day that it doesn’t.

  83. 83
    Czanne says:

    @TaMara (HFG): Itโ€™s okay. Iโ€™m not sure weโ€™re following each other anyway. (@CZEdwards)

    Chopping vegetables is a far more productive use of time.

    I did learn that tweet-threading on my phone is a pain in the ass, and I have a keyboard on my important devices for a good damn reason.

  84. 84
    Starfish says:

    @Feathers: The first round here is on a school night and lasts three hours so people with kids don’t go.

  85. 85
    ๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Things like rules about who can move a step stool around, and getting urged not to work too fast because youโ€™re making the other guys look bad, all that strikes them as anathema.

    That’s a stereotype of unions that I don’t understand. Any good union will want worker productivity to be high, just like management. They want the company to succeed too. If it fails, everyone loses. Having good benefits, pay, and protections in place makes good workers, in theory, to want to stay with the company and work hard. They are incentives.

  86. 86
    opiejeanne says:

    @efgoldman: WA does. Don’t know about Colorado. Guess who won the caucus, and who won the non-binding primary.
    We do vote by mail when it comes right down to elections, and that’s a huge plus.

  87. 87
    Jay says:


    Yup. Back in the day, AFL-CIO took a “run” at us. (Industrial Computers, Touchscreens and Software)

    They went after our Production People.

    They got the inital vote, failed on contract. They demanded $9.75 hr, 60% medical, 40% dental.

    Funny thing was, we started people at $15.75, 100% medical, 100% dental, $4k a year in Health and Wellness, and $3k, ( sometimes a lot higher if you were going for your MBA) in ConEd.

    And they drew a big “line” between people who worked on the “floor” vs. cubicle rats.

    Just stupid.

  88. 88
    ๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท says:

    Sounds as if the AFL-CIO was stuck in the past.

  89. 89
    Jay says:

    Combo of factors.

    We were in a new Industrial Park and they were going door to door.

    We had just moved in, ( 14-16 hour days), were growing big time, ( 60 new hires a month), but were hiring Managers who had driven Ontario Tech into the dirt, so people on “The Floor” were pissed off.

    I was “lucky”, got the internal promotion from “The Floor”, 6 months before the whole “grow our talent” thing became “nepotism from failed Techs”,

    And they didn’t do even basic homework.

  90. 90
    Czanne says:

    @Jay: Jesus crispy rice cakes. Unions that fail to do their goddam homework make me furious.

    (I say this as the grandkid of a UAW shop steward for GM, who was on one of the NUMMI teams to bring the method back to the Midwest. My grandfather spent his entire career with GM, and retired a little early after the line revolt in 1983. He would not let me buy a GM car newer than 1976. He said the midwestern union broke themselves by refusing to learn the NUMMI method, and he didnโ€™t trust anything they built after they refused to modernize the line. He saw too much sabotage on the line to trust my body in their work. Which says a lot.)

  91. 91
    Lem says:

    By yourself you were 25% of the people in your precinct, and could have picked any candidate and been a delegate at the county assembly, had you stayed.

    There are 6 candidates, all of whom have websites and information available in the press.

    There will be a primary in June. This was part of the process of deciding who gets on the ballot. There are two ways to get on the ballot: petition and caucus. My candidate has already completed the petition process (all volunteer, no paid signatures) and is also trying to get delegates. One candidate is still working on petitions and requested not to be included in the caucus.
    It is important to stay informed.

  92. 92
    Jay says:



    They had a “slam dunk” but blew it on the technicals.

    Coulda, woulda, shoulda, but,…….

    YVR Tech has basically been trapped into a model, innovate, lead, sell out, watch it implode into irrelevance.

  93. 93
    Procopius says:

    @Sab: Been a long time since I was a union member. Teamsters, IIRC. That was before Volcker and Reagan brought the hammer down, but unions already faced an uphill battle. Well, the auto workers were in a good position, but that was before the Japanese solved their quality control problems and got enough of a maintenance support network set up and ate Detroit’s lunch. Fvcking idiot management! Anyway, I can’t really blame the old guys (I’m older) for trying to protect themselves. I think they got the best deal they thought they could for the younger guys. Sounds like you don’t know how weak the unions were back when they were strong, and don’t really understand how the government stood with the corporations to destroy them. That was one of Volcker’s objrctives when they engineered the 1976 inflation (which was really caused by OPEC). He said at the time there was gonna be blood on the floor, and there was, union member blood.

  94. 94
    GeoWHayduke says:

    Hate it. Didnโ€™t even bother to go this year

  95. 95
    Dnfree says:

    @๐ŸŒŽ ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ๐Ÿ—ณ ๐ŸŒท: anyone who wants to understand how the old unions worked should watch the award-winning documentary โ€œHarlan County USAโ€. The workers in those days were fighting not only management, but sometimes their own corrupt union management. Reformers sometimes got killed. โ€œAnimal Farmโ€ also comes to mind.

  96. 96
    TerryC says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Let me also disagree. I have been on the receiving end of unwarranted union violence. Not a fan, despite being a former member of the IBOP.

  97. 97

    @Lem: Seriously – I own a small business and have a pretty busy life. You just described a part-time job. I can’t imagine a busy family with two jobs and a couple of kids trying to keep up with all of that. So I will refrain from saying, bite me.

    ETA: Yes, I am still crabby about it.

  98. 98
    Miss Bianca says:

    TaMara, after going thru’ the caucus training, I elected…not to go at all. Because with the advent of the primary, the caucus is basically useless.

    The *only* thing the caucus was supposed to record was preferences for governor. Which, since I didn’t have one (you got a “D” by your name on the primary ballot? Fine, I’m voting for you. Next!)

    I do believe the state party will be getting rid of the caucuses. I sure hope so, at any rate!

  99. 99
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Starfish: you do realize that CO *has* a primary now, right?

  100. 100
    Mudslide567 says:

    I am in Colorado Springs / El Paso county… we had 6 show up in our precinct. Total joke. Statewide I saw this morning 23000 Dems out of 1,007,000 registered active Dems turned out in 3,133 precincts… or an average of 7 people per precinct. Nobody with disabilities. Nobody who has to work at 7PM. Nobody who cannot arrange childcare. Nobody who cannot get transportation. So a tiny group of privileged high enthusiasm voters get the choice. A system totally ripe for abuse. This has no resemblance to democracy.

  101. 101
    Mudslide567 says:

    @Miss Bianca: they caucus to see who gets on the primary ballot. Yeah weird, I know.

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