Breaking News: The Democratic Minority Of The House Permanent Select Committee On Intelligence Report Has Been Released

You can find the report here. Or at the bottom of the post for download. It has suitable redactions. It is important to remember two things:

  1. The reports author is Congressman Schiff, the ranking member on the committee. And he actually read the underlying classified materials that the Nunes memo is supposedly based on.
  2. This minority report, even with the redactions, demolishes the arguments being made by Congressman Nunes, the House GOP Caucus, the administration, and their supporters.


Open thread!

299 replies
  1. 1
    Adam L Silverman says:

    I’m off to the gym, I’ll check back in later. Try not to declassify anything important while I’m gone!

  2. 2
    japa21 says:

    Yet Nunes is happy to see it out there saying it shows how accurate his memo was and that it shows collusion between the Democrats and government agencies. He also said that the DOJ and FBI needed to have the Democrats correct errors. This, of course is not true. They just said some things needed to be redacted.

  3. 3
    Mnemosyne says:

    Rumor in the thread below is that Schiff released it while Nunes was speaking onstage at CPAC.

    If so, well played, Congressman Schiff. 😂

  4. 4
    Aimai says:

    @japa21: jesus—what is he? Five years old?

  5. 5
    mad citizen says:

    Looking forward to the thread–so this Friday news dump is at 5 eastern on a Saturday. I’m making Lablabi soup for the second time. According to the new Milk Street food magazine, it is the Best Soup in the World. It’s Tunisian Chickpea soup, employing Harissa and cumin. Anyway, I like to think that attorney Bob Loblaw would enjoy Lablabi soup.

  6. 6
  7. 7
    Elizabelle says:

    Glad to see this.

    I want to see Nunes, and a long list of congressional Republicans, go to jail when this is all done. Lose their Congressional pensions. We cannot afford such corruption and lying. Clean it up.

  8. 8
  9. 9
  10. 10

    @–bd: It’s the verbal counterpart to galaxy brain

  11. 11
    trollhattan says:

    @japa21: @Aimai:
    Recalling Trump crowed the Nunes memo totally exonerated him when it came out I’m not the least surprised Nunes claims the same, now. And yes five is about right, “Poopy” jokes at dinner and all.

  12. 12
    JGabriel says:

    Adam L. Silverman @ Top:

    This minority report, even with the redactions, demolishes the arguments being made by Congressman Nunes, the House GOP Caucus, the administration, and their supporters.

    Weren’t they already pretty much demolished by the Mueller indictment against 13 Russians? Not that Schiff’s report isn’t a welcome addition to the continuing demolition of GOP propaganda.

  13. 13
    Mnemosyne says:

    @mad citizen:

    I’m sorry, but you’ve been terribly misled. The Best Soup in the World is, in fact, pozole, regardless of whether it’s green or red, or made with chicken, pork, or no meat at all.

    I hope that magazine corrects their mistake soon. 😉

  14. 14
    japa21 says:

    @trollhattan: Yes, five is about right. But it will be believed by a lot of people.

    BTW, Schiff specifically pointed out that all the FISA warrants had been approved by judges appointed by Republican Presidents.

  15. 15
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Nunes needs to die in prison.

  16. 16
    japa21 says:

    @JGabriel: Listening to a couple people on MSNBC (their legal experts including one who has argued in front of the FISA court) on the way home today. They both said that this is a refutation of the Nunes memo, but that, after all, the best refutation of the Nunes memo was the Nunes memo itself.

  17. 17

    Why are wingnuts attacking Samantha Power?

  18. 18
    Feebog says:

    I think the Nunes memo has already been pretty much discredited. Schiff’s memo puts the final nail in the coffin.

  19. 19
    efgoldman says:

    Today in our regular video call with granddaughter, she greeted us with a “super sister” t-shirt.
    Everybody’s thrilled. As before daughter and SIL aren’t going to share the sex or name (when they know).
    Of course as those with more than one grandkid know, it’s never as thrilling as the first time (my heart damn near stopped, then)

  20. 20
    WaterGirl says:

    @efgoldman: Your year just keeps getting better and better, it seems. Congratulations Grandpa!

  21. 21
    JGabriel says:


    BTW, Schiff specifically pointed out that all the FISA warrants had been approved by judges appointed by Republican Presidents.

    RINO’s all, except for Traitor Donald, Tricky Dick, and Saint Ronnie.

  22. 22
    JGabriel says:


    They both said that this is a refutation of the Nunes memo, but that, after all, the best refutation of the Nunes memo was the Nunes memo itself.

    Heh. Good observation.

  23. 23
    MoxieM says:

    @Mnemosyne: OK, this actually demands its own thread…TaMara? Paging TaMara to the white courtesy phone!

    I put in a vote for Soto Ayam (Indonesian chicken soup), followed by pea soup, either the yellow pea Québécois version, or the green pea Dutch version. mmm, soup!

    as ever, edited for idiocy.

  24. 24
    Elizabelle says:

    @efgoldman: Wonderful news!

    I hope the new baby gets Mrs. efg’s lovely voice, and the Jeopardy contestant’s smarts. Your curmudgeonliness would be, uh, interesting too.

    Very happy to hear this. Lucky baby, for having such hands on grandparents.

  25. 25
    Mnemosyne says:


    I was pretty sure this day was coming up soon for you — congratulations, double grandpa!

  26. 26
  27. 27
    Josie says:

    @Mnemosyne: A lot of the prep instructions on that page are similar to instructions for real Texas chili (no beans). Interesting.

  28. 28
    efgoldman says:


    this actually demands its own thread

    Don’t be silly. Beef Barley, Chicken w/(home made) matzoh balls, or real (not that pink shit, not canned) clam chowder.
    Oh. And pho with home made won ton. Which I can’t get around here.

  29. 29
    JGabriel says:

    @efgoldman: Congrats, Gramps!

  30. 30
    MoxieM says:

    @efgoldman: Mmmm. yummy. also, many congrats!! May all the didees be changed by other hands.

  31. 31
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Turned on MSNBC to see if there was any news: Republican shill says the FBI relied on partisan oppo research, no pushback; Dem shill mumbles about the need to continue with the investigation; a “defense attorney” apparently brought out for some kind of balance starts screaming how we haven’t seen any evidence of collusion, no pushback. Jesus fucking christ people, do I have to fly to DC, break into the studio and read Slabhead Donnie’s “I love it” exchange to you all?

  32. 32
    Mnemosyne says:


    Probably because she thinks soft power is more effective than bombing people. Also, she’s a big proponent of accepting refugees. Also, she worked for Obama. Also, she’s a lowly woman-creature.

    I don’t know what she said specifically, but any of the above will work as an explanation.

  33. 33

    @efgoldman: I don’t know what ‘super sister’ means but I can surmise! Congrats! Congrats! 🎊 🍾🎈

  34. 34
    Mnemosyne says:


    My super lazy sick day soup is frozen tortellini boiled in chicken broth. If I have enough energy to order in, I get BBQ pork won ton soup from the Chinese restaurant up the street.

  35. 35
    Ohio Mom says:

    @efgoldman: What great news! Here’s hoping for an easy pregnancy for Daughter.

    Many of us here may seem cynical and pessimistic but our secret inner optimism shows when we can’t help but be thrilled that a new being will soon be joining us here on this blue marble.

  36. 36
    cosima says:

    @Mnemosyne: Thanks for the link to excellent Mexican food! One of the only things I miss about the US (and I can count them on one hand, save family/friends) is Mexican restaurants! I cook some excellent Mexican food, but it’s primarily because I have no option other than to cook it myself if I want to eat it. Finding the proper peppers is near impossible, and if I have to cancel my amazon prime subscription because they won’t dump the NRA channel I will have to do a massive Mexican pepper buy ahead of time.

    I’m glad to see that Schiff gave the GOP & orange fart cloud the middle finger and released this, but of course it will make no difference to the 27/32% crazed folk. How much coverage is it going to get with a weekend news dump? Why now?

  37. 37
    Lizzy L says:

    @efgoldman: Congratulations!!

  38. 38
    mad citizen says:

    I will have to make pozole sometime. The lablabi recipe lies about “simmer until the chickpeas are tender, about an hour”. It takes much longer, like two hours. And yes, they soaked for around 18 hours first.

    In case anyone wants to see this soup recipe, here’s a link:

  39. 39
    Brachiator says:


    Why are wingnuts attacking Samantha Power?

    She worked for Obama.

  40. 40
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @efgoldman: Woohoo! Congratulations to all involved!

  41. 41
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @efgoldman: It’s still pretty darned awesome, though. We learned in a similar way, as a matter of fact.

  42. 42
    M31 says:


    I’m making homemade mazto balls RIGHT NOW.

    But since this is soup shout-out thread: TOM YUM

    also beef/barley, french onion, and carrot/ginger, mmmmmm

  43. 43
    Josie says:

    @efgoldman: Congratulations, Grandpa. We also have a second one coming in April. Very exciting.

  44. 44
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @efgoldman: That’s because none of you have ever had my mother-in-law’s borshch.

  45. 45
    rikyrah says:

    Anil Kalhan‏Verified account @kalhan

    Tillerson orders State Department to “trim” congressionally-mandated annual country reports on human rights, by removing and sanitizing discussions of reproductive rights, family planning, and racial, ethnic, and sexual discrimination:

  46. 46
    Brachiator says:

    @mad citizen: The best soup in the world is whatever a friend’s mother decides to make, and after that, for me, Tom Kha Gai.

  47. 47
    Aimai says:

    @WaterGirl: congratulations! How absolutely wonderful!! Sorry! That was meant for ef!

  48. 48
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Congratulations to all! I’m very happy for you and mrs efg (AND daughter AND son in law and OF COURSE the big sister!)

    ETA: Forgot to ask, when is the due date?

  49. 49
    Mary G says:

    @efgoldman: Congratulations! I’m sure you will be thrilled with whichever type of grandbaby you get. And when the four-year-old turns 15 and is too cool to talk to you, there will still be an 11-year-old to tide you over. /s

    I am only on the second page, but boy, is it ever nice to read something that’s properly punctuated and uses regular words and makes sense. Schiff’s got some nice subtle snark going too. Nunes looks like the jackass he is. I am enjoying making up the redacted bits in my head, mostly Don Jr. and Kushner. A woman can dream.

  50. 50
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:


    Tom Kha Gai

    Upvote. TKG is the best soup ever. Pozole is a worthy runner-up, though.

  51. 51
    rikyrah says:

    Black Florida woman receives lynching threat from ‘Whites 4 Trump’ after argument about Parkland
    24 FEB 2018 AT 09:02 ET

    Law enforcement in Florida are investigating an incident of workplace racism by a supporter of President Donald Trump, WTSP reported Saturday.

    Terri Silar, who is black, said it started earlier this week when several co-workers were discussing gun control and President Trump in the wake of the Parking shooting massacre.

    The next day, she found a monkey stuffed animal with a noose around its neck hanging from her office chair.

    There was a racist note attached to the monkey.
    “You are getting deported back to Africa n****r and that will make America great again,” the note read.

    The threat was signed, “Whites 4 Trump.”
    A note on her monitor read, “n****r b*tch.”

    “I was shocked, but most of all I was hurt,” Silar told WTSP.
    “I felt threatened. I didn’t feel safe. For someone to be that bold. That is a blatant boldness and a hate crime,” Silar explained. “It is a monkey with a noose around its neck. What message do you think I’m going to take from that?”

  52. 52
    Lapassionara says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: SERIOUSLY!

    Very bad. Changed channel at once.

  53. 53
    rikyrah says:

    Ida Bae Wells‏ @nhannahjones

    Lovely @weeklystandard essay on how black culture and black people are trash and that we have devolved since we got our civil rights because apartheid was for black culture and families.

  54. 54
    Another Scott says:

    Are we trying to figure out what the redactions say? If so, I’ll take the easiest one.

    Page 3, 3rd redacted word is “four” – is my guess.


  55. 55
    efgoldman says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    Here’s hoping for an easy pregnancy for Daughter.

    Yeah, second child in a row the last few months will be in the height (depths?) of the DC summer

  56. 56
    Mary G says:

    @Josie: Congratulations to you and your family too!

  57. 57

    The best soups are my mother in law’s pho and my mom’s chili. I’ll cut you

  58. 58
    rikyrah says:

    Ari Berman‏Verified account @AriBerman

    Yesterday Trump & Paul Ryan fired respected GOP chair of Election Assistance Commission, which helps states protect voting machines from being hacked

    New GOP vice chair of EAC called Russian hacking a hoax

  59. 59
    Steve in the ATL says:

    Not sure if this should be classified or is just hard to belief: as I type these words, I am actually in the ATL!

  60. 60
    Ninedragonspot says:

    @mad citizen: If you can get your hands on one, an instant pot would pressure-cook the dried chickpeas in about an hour, with no pre-soaking.

  61. 61
    Yutsano says:

    @efgoldman: MAZEL TOV YA OLD DAWG!!!

  62. 62
    Lapassionara says:

    @mad citizen: So, I went and looked. I love harissa, but the eggs are a bridge too far for me. Halves of soft boiled eggs in soup?

    But I will likely try some day, but truly there are so many great soups.

  63. 63
    Mike J says:

    Anyone know about Trump employees shredding docs at the hotel in Panama?

  64. 64
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Steve in the ATL: That *IS* historical.

  65. 65

    @Steve in the ATL: weirdo.

    ETA any sign of the poolboy?

  66. 66
    Mary G says:

    I am wondering why Carter Page hasn’t been indicted yet, because Schiff shows he’s done a lot of lying, including in a letter to then FBI Director Comey, and in testimony to Congress, or have I missed it? There is too much to keep up with these days.

  67. 67
    debit says:

    @Lapassionara: I made homemade ramen today and my daughter demanded a fried egg in her bowl. I did it, but couldn’t watch her eat it.

  68. 68
    Yutsano says:

    @debit: Huh. Really? The Japanese eat eggs in their ramen all the time. Granted it’s usually like these but even fried eggs aren’t uncommon.

  69. 69
    Brachiator says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:

    Pozole is a worthy runner-up, though.

    Perhaps. So much regional variation and outside of Mexico, a woman from Guatemala who cooks for a local food truck makes a fabulous pozole.

  70. 70
    JPL says:

    @efgoldman: That is wonderful news indeed!

  71. 71
    Brachiator says:

    @Lapassionara: Eggs are common in many Asian soup and noodle dishes.

  72. 72
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:


    Humans can be terrible. Ignorant, racist fearful, resentful, superstitious humans especially suck. I share a race with a whole damn lot of them.

  73. 73
    Millard Filmore says:

    @Mike J:

    Anyone know about Trump employees shredding docs at the hotel in Panama?

    Hope this helps.

  74. 74
    p.a. says:

    @efgoldman: Congrats. Now that you’ve had practice spoiling one grandkid, #2 will be a piece of cake.

    I love any decently made soup, but last meal, it’s bun bo Hue. Although that soup with harissa is now gotta-try-list.

  75. 75
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Another Scott:

    Page 3, 3rd redacted word is “four” – is my guess.

    Yeah, the redactions are well-played. People will be talking about that one – “into [four/five/nine?] individuals” and the 6 letter word (looks like) further on “against [eleven?] individuals“. If a five letter word, then seven/eight.
    Some of the longer redactions are even more suggestive. Impressed. :-) Need to re-read lining up all the footnotes.
    The Nunes memo deserved this treatment.

  76. 76
    Mary G says:

    @Another Scott: See this tweet, as people are already starting to try to figure it out:

    Doesn't fit— Pwn All The Things (@pwnallthethings) February 24, 2018

    My bet is six.

  77. 77
    Brachiator says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    The best soups are my mother in law’s pho and my mom’s chili.

    Chili ain’t soup. Chili ain’t stew. Chili is chili.

    A few year’s back, some friends won a local chili contest and we all went to the state finals. They didn’t win, but damn there was some fine tasting to be done.

    My uncle could do amazing chili and I learned a few tricks from him.

    I love chili. I can easily believe that your mom can make great chili.

  78. 78
    trollhattan says:

    @debit: @Yutsano:
    We have a ramen house that takes the poor college student staple to absurd heights. Eggs are a common add-on, one I don’t indulge but different strokes I guess. Carbonara, we can talk. Also, too, breakfast burritos.

  79. 79
    Shana says:

    @mad citizen: Let us know how it turns out. I’m always up for new soups.

  80. 80
    Gravenstone says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): If you just summoned up an Elder God with that rant, it’s on your head young man.

  81. 81
    John Revolta says:

    @efgoldman: What Yutsano said.

  82. 82
    jl says:


    ” BTW, Schiff specifically pointed out that all the FISA warrants had been approved by judges appointed by Republican Presidents. ”

    Makes no difference. Trumpsters are dangerous authoritarians, with every vile thing that goes along with that. Everything is political, and and a political motivation can be manufactured for anyone, even a heretofore rock solid Republican. If he or she does something that is not in accordance with the interest, whims and wishes of the leader, they are guilty of something, and sanctions are demanded immediately.

    Edit: remember, the Bush family is anti-Trump, which is a suspect political position, and there is very probably a sinister treasonous Bush family plot to subvert judges appointed during their administrations. Probably Soros is funding it, or immigrant criminal gangs, or whatever nonsense. It may be nonsense, and so far over 2/3 of public opposes it, but it is still a very dangerous mindset.

  83. 83

    @efgoldman: Great news, grandpa to be again.

  84. 84
    smintheus says:

    Every news report I’ve read on the published Democratic memo has been weak in the extreme. It utterly demolishes the lies in the Nunes memo, but no surprise, the response of journalists is to pretend that the responses from Nunes and other Republicans about the Dem memo should be published without rebuttal as yet more lies.

  85. 85
    Brachiator says:

    @rikyrah: What a load of fucking horse shit in the Weekly Standard article. The author seems to love the good old days when Italians and the Irish and Jews were criminals, but somehow puts black people in a special category. And then there is this.

    If blacks once seemed all but invisible in my Chicago, today they are ubiquitous.

    Black people have lived in Chicago for a long ass time. But there are always people for whom black people are invisible. To hell with these assholes.

  86. 86

    @Brachiator: Why now? Something, something unmasking.

  87. 87
    eemom says:


    second child in a row the last few months will be in the height (depths?) of the DC summer


    Also, fertility cycles are totally a thing. My second was born 3 years and and 361 days after my first.

  88. 88
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    any sign of the poolboy?

    Very odd situation: out of nowhere, ICE showed up and deported him. Impossible to know, or even speculate about, who reported him.

  89. 89
    rikyrah says:


  90. 90
    Yarrow says:

    I’m taking care of my neighbor’s cats again so I’m heading out to do that. Fortunately it’s only a few days this time. I think the dry food in the plastic tub isn’t quite enough to last and I can’t find the spare dry food anywhere (it’s not where it usually is). I don’t know the kind she uses so I can’t just go buy some. I could text her but then she’d panic and I don’t want to mess up her vacation. I think I’ll give them more canned food and see if I can make the dry food last.

    @Steve in the ATL: Fake news!

  91. 91
    Ninedragonspot says:

    @Lapassionara: Some of the tastiest congees have century (preserved) eggs in them. Arguably, the best soup is breakfast soup!

  92. 92

    @Steve in the ATL: Wait, you’re in the ATL? Who are you and what did you do with Steve?

  93. 93
    Yarrow says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Pool boys are a dime a dozen. I told you it’s the cabana boys you really need to watch out for.

  94. 94
    Bill Arnold says:


    Saint Ronnie

    “and one by President Ronald Reagan”

  95. 95
    Yarrow says:

    @efgoldman: Congratulations! How exciting for all of you.

  96. 96

    @rikyrah: What irritates me the most is the type of bigot who wants you to be thankful to them for their bigotry.
    The slavery was great for black people, they should have welcomed us with flowers in Baghdad, colonial era gave the ancient civilizations like China and India “culture”. You know, that kind of bigot. A bigot who has pretensions of not being bigoted. I am not a racist but, kind of a bigot.

  97. 97
    mike in dc says:

    @schrodingers_cat: “Get Out” was kind of a showcase for a certain kind of liberal-ish, “friendly” white bigot.

  98. 98
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mnemosyne: I don’t know if they’re on your okay food list, but if you add rotel (tomatoes and peppers) onions and celery, you would have my version of tortellini soup which is what I ate tonight. :-)

  99. 99
    WaterGirl says:

    @Brachiator: They should love her. Didn’t she make some negative comment about Clinton that caused a huge uproar?

  100. 100
    Steve in the ATL says:


    the Bush family

    If I may be pedantic (as if you can stop me!), the proper construction is “the Bush Crime Family”

  101. 101
    debit says:

    @Yutsano: I know. I just think it’s gross.

  102. 102
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mary G: I am giving you the side-eye for that scary photo of some animal earlier – what was that supposed to be? Yikes!

  103. 103

    @WaterGirl: She was talking about her immigrant experience on Twitter and howler monkeys on the right were attacking her.

  104. 104
    WaterGirl says:

    @rikyrah: Boy, do I hope they were stupid enough to leave fingerprints or DNA. If so, i hope they will enjoy their little introduction to the justice system.

  105. 105
  106. 106
    cosima says:

    On the subject of soup, I’ve made zuppa Toscana twice in the last couple of months, with friends coming over for walks, and needing a nice warm hearty soup after for warming up. My husband hates soup, but he loves that soup. Please don’t add cream of corn to thicken — abomination! And do add the cannellini beans.

    And speaking of Toscana (Italia!), I’ve just made reservations for our family to go to Italy in the fall! We’ll be staying in a small village in the Dolomites, near friends who have a holiday apartment there (ooh la la — but not big enough to tempt me to stay with them and have 8 people share one bathroom). We are going to spend a bit of time in Venice because Little Cosima has been wanting to go there. We went when she was a toddler, of course she doesn’t remember much of that, and as tired as I was (she has always been the worst sleeper!) I don’t remember much of it either. We lived in the UK then (as now), so going to Italy was (is) fairly reasonable as holidays go. I think our tickets from Edinburgh will be about £250 round trip. We’ve not had a holiday outside the UK for 4+ years, so this is a big deal for us, if we have a holiday outside the UK (or an expensive one in the UK, say on Skye or similar) that’s it for us for spending frivolously for the year. I am finally feeling better, my tests all came back okay (knock wood), and I am ready for the family to have an adventure, a good one.

    Back to the subject of cooking/food/soup/whatever, our non-stick pan died fairly recently, so we replaced it. This review of non-stick pans has it as #1, and I can vouch for that — if you take care of it, it’s like an ice rink it’s so slippy. None of the evil nasties that come with Teflon or similar. It’s an investment, as it’s not a cheap pan, but the last Teflon pan we bought for nearly as much only lasted a few years before it seemed to be absorbing spices/tastes/?… So, greenpan = excellent investment.

    And it is after midnight here, so I’m now going to bed…………

  107. 107
    WaterGirl says:

    @debit: How do you make homemade ramen?

  108. 108
    WaterGirl says:

    @Yutsano: I can’t look at ketchup on eggs. It’s not a logic thing, it’s visceral. Disgusting.

  109. 109
    Brachiator says:


    Why now? Something, something unmasking.

    Chicago is Obama’s mainland hometown. So white conservative bigots love to focus on Chicago as the epitome of a domestic black shit hole. They also love to fixate on Chicago as proof that nothing can be done to help black people. Trump’s chief racism officer Stephen Miller can always be relied on for this and he uses Chcago to justify his anti black and anti-nonwhite immigration agenda.

    And yesterday I heard some Republican lawmaker say that America cannot have gun control because… Chicago.

  110. 110
    debit says:

    @WaterGirl: Ginger and garlic sauteed in sesame oil, add broth and a little miso, then add sliced shiitake mushrooms, fresh chinese noodles, sliced green onion, shredded carrot and dried seaweed (I subbed chopped baby kale), siracha to taste. And apparently a soft cooked egg of some sort. Hurk.

    ETA: Disclaimer. I love eggs cooked in all sorts of ways. Just not in soup or stews.

  111. 111
    WaterGirl says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I truly don’t know how anybody loves these hateful assholes.

  112. 112
    Timurid says:

    Cajun style gumbo… you’re all looking at me like I’m stupid because it’s so hard to find good or even passable gumbo in a restaurant (even in Louisiana). But if you ever get to have the real thing, home made…

  113. 113

    Assholes demand to be praised for being assholes.

  114. 114
    debbie says:


    Congratulations! The more, the merrier!

  115. 115

    @WaterGirl: Unwrap it, throw it in boiling water for a minute or two, drain.

  116. 116
    WaterGirl says:

    @debit: Where does one get fresh chinese noodles? Are they similar to the dried ramen noodles in the soup aisle, only fresh?

  117. 117
    Mary G says:

    @WaterGirl: Wha? I haven’t posted any animals today. Yesterday there was the Jack Russell with the kitten and Griff the dog, maybe it was him? Or the night before flying squirrels, who I think are cute. Sorry, anyway.

  118. 118
    Another Scott says:

    @Mary G: Entertaining Twitter thread – “stupid”.




  119. 119
    WaterGirl says:

    @BruceFromOhio: hahaha.

    I worked as a checkout girl at the grocery store while i was in college. That was way back when the frozen bread dough had just come out – I don’t even know if that’s a thing anymore? Everyone raved about it, so one of the baggers decided he would try it. He couldn’t figure out what he had done wrong. Turns out he did not thaw the frozen dough first.

    I also had to explain to one of the baggers how you boil water.

  120. 120
    Brachiator says:


    They should love her. Didn’t she make some negative comment about Clinton that caused a huge uproar?

    Samantha Power?

    She called Clinton a monster during the 2008 primary campaign and had to resign as an Obama aide.

  121. 121
    debit says:

    @WaterGirl: I find them in the produce section where you can get fresh wonton wrappers. They aren’t crinkly, but I like ’em better. You can always use the dry ones in the Asian section but it takes a little longer, obviously.

  122. 122
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mary G: I couldn’t remember until you listed the options – it was Griff the dog. Is that a real dog? Scary! I wasn’t really giving you the side-eye, at least not in a bad way. But that was one scary pooch!

  123. 123
    WaterGirl says:

    @Brachiator: That was really awful. Not that Power called Clinton a monster, but that her whole life and career was derailed, for a good long awhile at least, because of one foolish comment.

  124. 124
  125. 125
    MoxieM says:

    Oh My Debit, you would love the Soto Ayam I ref’d above. Here’s an ingredient list, and a passing decent, and comprehensible recipe:
    1 Chicken breast ; 2 Chicken wing ; ½ Parts Onion ; 3 Garlic ; 1 Teaspoon Turmeric powder ; 1 Teaspoon Minced ginger ; 2 Teaspoons White pepper ;1 Or 2 chicken bouillon cube; Salt ; 1 Lemon grass ; 3 Lime leaves ; 2 Bay leaves (or Thai basil); ½ Centimeters Galangal

    Most recipes, including this one as you read, include vermicelli, boiled or fried eggs, sambal Oelek, aka Sriracha; and fried shrimp crackers as a topping (Krupuk), and some fried onions etc.

  126. 126
    WaterGirl says:

    @debit: I have clearly not been paying attention to the Asian section anywhere – produce or the regular Asian aisle. thanks

  127. 127
    debbie says:


    Despicable, but the bastard shouldn’t be hard to find.

  128. 128

    @WaterGirl: Kid puts hot sauce on her eggs, I’ve started to do it too.

  129. 129
    WaterGirl says:

    @MoxieM: That sounds good except for the lemongrass – am I the only one who thinks that tastes like lemon pledge?

  130. 130
    debit says:

    @MoxieM: That sounds really good! Except for the egg. :) Bookmarked and thanks!

  131. 131
    StringOnAStick says:

    We tried to go back country skiing this morning but the wind was horrible. 5 degrees and 48 mph sustained winds is very sub zero wind chill. We thought about then drove back home. Ground blizzards on a sunny day = winter winds near Denver.

    I love that Schiff released it while Nunes was doing his fan dance at CPAC; nice touch. Perhaps it will get exhaustively discussed on the Sunday gasbag shows for their shrinking audiences. I want to see this get a LOT more attention and slap Nunes around a bit.

  132. 132
    WaterGirl says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I will eat salsa with scrambled eggs or an omelette. But ketchup on eggs, I cannot even sit at the same table with that. It turns my stomach to even see it.

  133. 133
    WaterGirl says:

    @StringOnAStick: Republicans will lie about the memo on all the sunday shows, and stupid people everywhere will think “both sides” and will either completely buy the Republican lies or conclude that they just don’t know what to think.

  134. 134
    VeniceRiley says:


    @Brachiator: They should love her. Didn’t she make some negative comment about Clinton that caused a huge uproar?

    IIRC, during Obama v Clinton, she was the original unhinged “Killary!” asshole, and Obama had to make her apologise.

  135. 135
    debbie says:

    @mad citizen:

    They discussed that soup on the radio version of Milk Street. It sounds interesting, especially the torn-up bread. Sort of like white gazpacho.

  136. 136
    WaterGirl says:

    @debbie: I bet it’s at least two people, and I’m sure they thought it was hilarious. Myself, I choose another “h” word – horrifying.

  137. 137

    @Frankensteinbeck: Some revel in being assholes but there are some who think they are wonderful and act hurt if you point out the inconsistencies in their arguments.

  138. 138
    debbie says:


    My youngest brother orders boxes of something called “Death Sauce” online. His family puts it on everything, even latkes!

  139. 139

    I will address the great soup debate, probably tomorrow, which will give me time to have puppy pictures.

  140. 140
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @WaterGirl: Mrs G&T can’t have her eggs without it.

  141. 141
    CaseyL says:

    @efgoldman: Congrats! Do they live near enough to you that you’ll get to see the grandbaby a lot?

    A hiking buddy gave me a recipe for potato bacon soup which has got to be the easiest soup ever to make. You basically boil a bunch of red potatoes, cut them up and put them in heated milk and stir for a while, then add cooked bacon. And if you want it to at least be within shouting distance of “healthy” you can add steamed/wilted kale.

    My grandmother had the Best Jewish Chicken Soup recipe ever, but we didn’t get it from her before she died and all attempts to recreate the recipe have fallen short. IIRC, you start out boiling an entire chicken, then remove the skin, meat and bones, and skim off all the fat, so you have a rich, clear stock. The stock is then cooked with celery and carrots and a bundle of “soup’n’greens,” which included dill and parsley and something else but no one knows what. The bundle is cooked with the soup for flavoring, but removed before serving (I used to love eating it). The chicken meat is broken up and added after the broth is finished.

    Then Nanny would fry up the chicken skin in the chicken fat with onions until the skin AND THE FAT were crisp to make “grebens,” which may be the Jewish equivalent of pork cracklings. Maybe a little healthier. Very little. My god, I loved those – I don’t dare even try to cook them now, because I couldn’t stop myself from eating the whole batch and would likely keel over immediately afterwards.

  142. 142
    patrick II says:


    Yesterday Trump & Paul Ryan fired respected GOP chair of Election Assistance Commission, which helps states protect voting machines from being hacked

    In the current context we think the Republicans don’t want the next election monitored too closely in spite of the threat of Russian interference. But the may also object to close monitoring because it may also put a crimp in their own election plans.

  143. 143
    debbie says:


    Seriously, though. There’s a finite number of employees and HR should be able to figure out exactly who did it. Assuming HR wants to.

  144. 144
    WaterGirl says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Can’t have eggs without ketchup? ::involuntary shudder::

  145. 145
    debbie says:


    Chicken cracklings is a thing, but sadly, they’re not at all healthy.

  146. 146
    WaterGirl says:

    @debbie: The hell with HR – I would have called the police.

    I learned quite a long time ago that HR is not there to help the employees.

  147. 147
    Yarrow says:

    @WaterGirl: They certainly are not. HR’s job is to protect the company.

  148. 148
    mad citizen says:

    @Ninedragonspot: thank you! I looked into the Instant Pot on the web one day–not sure I want another appliance hanging around the kitchen, but it’s a thought

  149. 149
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: Congratulations!!!!

  150. 150
    Adam L Silverman says:

    I’m back from the gym. What’d I miss?

  151. 151
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @WaterGirl: HR is there to protect the company. Sometimes that aligns with with helping employees. In this case it should.

  152. 152

    @Adam L Silverman: efg’s having a baby!*

    *Or maybe it’s his daughter.

  153. 153

    @Steve in the ATL: There’s some guy using your nym and says he’s in the ATL, you might want to contact the authorities.

  154. 154
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: Right to Protect is problematic, but other than that – what you said.

  155. 155
    mad citizen says:

    @Shana: It’s a good soup! Very interesting taste, something I had not had before, with the harissa sauce. Cumin is in there too. It’s onions, garlic and chickpeas in a chicken/tomato paste/harissa base. Then at the end you put some croutons in the bowl, along with a soft-cooked egg, some cilantro, flat-leaf parsley, capers, green olives and enjoy.

  156. 156
    Adria McDowell says:

    @efgoldman: Congrats!

  157. 157
    Another Scott says:

    @Adam L Silverman: “four”

    No surprise about the probable 4 people, if PwnAllTheThings on Twitter is right.

    Dunno about the other redactions.


  158. 158
    mad citizen says:

    @debbie: It’s good! I think I put too much bread in mine tonight, though. I’d have to say that gumbo is probably my favorite soup/stew.

  159. 159
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    It hit 80°F in Atlanta today :-)

  160. 160
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I’ll call the Atlanta police! Or the San Francisco police. Or the LAPD. Shit, who do I call?!

  161. 161
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: so I heard. Uh, I mean so I noticed. Because I’m totally in the ATL.

  162. 162
  163. 163
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @rikyrah: On behalf of my co-religionists, you have my sincerest apologies.

  164. 164
    debbie says:

    @mad citizen:

    It’s probably plebeian to most here, but my current favorite is leek and potato with shrimp.

  165. 165
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @debbie: I love leek and potato soup. How do you work the shrimp in? sounds interesting

  166. 166
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Bill Arnold:

    The Nunes memo deserved this treatment.

    I still can’t figure out what in the Nunes memo actually needed to be redacted. There wasn’t anything in that that couldn’t have been spun together out of news coverage. Given that he never read the underlying classified information, and it is unclear if the two hacks he had working with him on drafting it had either, it is not surprising.

  167. 167
    cynthia ackerman says:


    Po taik (Thai seafood stew) gets my vote. Really good cioppino is maybe second best.

  168. 168

    As far as soup goes, you can’t beat Samgyetang.

  169. 169
    Adam L Silverman says:


    The author seems to love the good old days when Italians and the Irish and Jews were criminals

    Which is interesting given his name is Joseph Epstein. It’s pretty clear which of the above groups he belongs to.

  170. 170
    Ruckus says:

    On the last ship I was stationed on (for about 3 weeks) we had a kid from Louisiana who would get a whole plate of eggs and slather, and I do mean slather, like gravy on mashed potatoes, cajan hot sauce on it. Every table I ever sat at to eat in the navy had salt, pepper, katsoup, and the same Louisiana Cajan hot sauce on it. This was the only person I ever saw use the hot sauce.

  171. 171
    Doug R says:

    @Another Scott:

    An apparent mistake in the declassification process, footnote 7 seems to reveal what’s redacted: FIVE campaign officials were under investigation as of Sept. ’16, including the future National Security Advisor, MICHAEL FLYNN.

  172. 172
    Shalimar says:

    @WaterGirl: I put Worcestershire sauce on eggs during cooking. It turns scrambled eggs brown, so not a good look. Tastes great though.

  173. 173
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Mnemosyne: Most of the bashing of Samantha Power I’ve seen is from True Progressive types who regard her as a corporate-Democrat warmonger. Some of it seems to shade into “everything I read on RT is true” stuff, which might in turn shade into the right-wing criticisms.

  174. 174
    Old Dan and Little Anne says:

    My wife made pickle soup once. Once.

  175. 175
    Another Scott says:

    @Doug R: Interesting. Thanks.


  176. 176
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Old Dan and Little Anne: may she Rest In Peace.

  177. 177
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @cosima: I have two of the green pans. They’re great!

  178. 178
    Smiling Mortician says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    Many of us here may seem cynical and pessimistic but our secret inner optimism shows when we can’t help but be thrilled that a new being will soon be joining us here on this blue marble.

    Yup. Weird, isn’t it? We can’t help ourselves.

  179. 179
    Brachiator says:


    IIRC, during Obama v Clinton, she was the original unhinged “Killary!” asshole, and Obama had to make her apologise

    There was nothing unhinged about her. It was a tough campaign. Clinton was boasting about how qualified she was and how untested Obama was.

    The apology was clearly strategic.

  180. 180
    MomSense says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yes, please do. I’ve been out of it today so I’ve thankfully missed all the bad coverage. Meet the Republicans this Sunday should be infuriating.

  181. 181
    Lapassionara says:

    @Ninedragonspot: Well, obviously I need a more sophisticated palate.

  182. 182
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    My Olympic podium for soups:

    Gold.) Soon Dubu Jiggae
    Silver.) Pho
    Bronze.) Everything else…

  183. 183
    satby says:

    @efgoldman: Hooray and congratulations!

  184. 184
    efgoldman says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    That’s because none of you have ever had my mother-in-law’s borshch.

    My dad, b.1915, grew up in the 20s and 30s in Boaton’s West End tenements. So even before the Depression, they pretty much ate whatever was available. About the only thing he wouldn’t eat was beets.

  185. 185
    MomSense says:


    So happy for all of you.

  186. 186
    AnotherBruce says:

    Apparently, former Chicago Bear Charles (Peanut) Tillman, creator of the Peanut punch fumble has become an FBI agent.

  187. 187
    efgoldman says:


    when is the due date?

    Week after labor day

  188. 188
    Adam L Silverman says:


    efg’s having a baby!

    I did not realize this was a side effect of dialysis. I will update the files!//

  189. 189
    satby says:

    @Adam L Silverman: and I would bet $$ that Mr. Epstein hasn’t lived in Chicago for many decades.

  190. 190
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Another Scott: I already knew that!

  191. 191
    efgoldman says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    as I type these words, I am actually in the ATL!

    No, you’re not

  192. 192
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: The hot sauce is very, very helpful with MREs. In fact a mini bottle comes in the little pack that includes the plastic wear and the salt, pepper, and ketchup packets.

  193. 193
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @satby: He’s now a professor emeritus at Northwestern. He’s a life long Chicagoan.

  194. 194
    debbie says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    They’re cooked separately and added at the end and rewarmed.

  195. 195
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I just read the essay. Epstein takes longer to come to his point than I really have patience for. And when he does get there, there’s not much to it. It’s the old racist stereotype of black people being weakened by dependence on ever-expanding welfare assistance, and black criminality somehow being the consequence. So I found myself asking, whence came the white criminality he remembers so much more fondly?

  196. 196
    efgoldman says:


    Then Nanny would fry up the chicken skin in the chicken fat with onions until the skin AND THE FAT were crisp to make “grebens,” which may be the Jewish equivalent of pork cracklings

    My grandma (gone ~30 years) did the soup and gribenes (her pronunciation) the same way. If some other grandchild besides me was there, we fought over them.
    After she brought the whole chicken home from the kosher butcher, she rotated it over the stove burner to remove the remnants of feathers. Very distinctive smell. said to resemble the odor of a home permanent
    She always did it on Thursday, so the soup was ready for Shabat

  197. 197
    satby says:

    @Adam L Silverman: too bad. I was assuming he was a snowbird, he fits. Chicagoan, or suburbanite? Because there’s a difference.
    Honestly, he’s an old racist dick, who cares?

  198. 198
    frosty says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I scrounged my kid’s uneaten PANG MRE’s for my working-too-late pantry at work. Hey, infinite shelf life, right? I saved a tiny bottle of Tabasco and put it on my shelf. People look at it funny.

  199. 199
    efgoldman says:


    sadly, they’re not at all healthy.

    And your point is?

  200. 200
    satby says:

    @Amir Khalid: his remembrances of the Outfit seem awfully rose-colored to this cop’s kid.

  201. 201

    @Amir Khalid: I got bored after the first two paragraphs.

  202. 202
    Spanky says:

    RIP Nanette Fabray. Age 97.

    Another one I thought had gone long ago.

  203. 203

    @satby: Nostalgia gives some people rose tinted glasses to view the past.

  204. 204
    JPL says:

    @Doug R: why not nine..

  205. 205
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Amir Khalid: I didn’t read it, I just clicked across to see who wrote it.

    And it’s not like there isn’t an entire historic study of Chicago, delinquency, and crime we could refer to. Oh wait, there is.

  206. 206
    JPL says:

    @efgoldman: If he is home, he’s not in Atlanta.

  207. 207
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @cosima: I love Venice, been there twice. It’s a complete maze of twisty little streets and bridges so you never seem to go exactly where you intended and it’s hard to repeat a route. But it’s small and walkable so you’re never very far from where you intended either. Also seems like no matter which way you go, you’ll end up in Piazza San Marco, St Mark’s Square.

    A caution about going in the fall. We were there in October I believe. Turns out that’s the wet season. Constant rain, and high tides that flood the streets. Most of Piazza San Marco was under water and you had to get around on these temporary wooden walkways.

    But Venice has been building a huge engineering project to actually block those tidal floods and I think it may have actually gone operational since we were there.

  208. 208
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @satby: I don’t have his address or anything, I just clicked over to see who the author was, then did a quick bio search.

  209. 209
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @frosty: Its soooo cute!

  210. 210
    satby says:

    @schrodingers_cat: he’s a perfect example of how education level is not equivalent to enlightened. Most of that blather I’ve heard from white flighters from the city.

  211. 211
    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @efgoldman: Is this where I say Mazel Tov? I think it is. Mazel Tov!

  212. 212
    debbie says:


    That I can’t sprinkle them over everything I eat.

  213. 213
    Jeffro says:


    Can’t have eggs without ketchup? ::involuntary shudder::

    You can have eggs without ketchup, but then you have to have some hot sauce handy.

  214. 214
  215. 215
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    So you claim. I haven’t seen you.

  216. 216
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    Re: soup
    Best soup is whatever my wife has going in the Crock Pot.
    2nd best is an amazing lentil soup I had in a Lebanese restaurant decades ago, which has become mythical in my memory and which I’m searching for every time I order lentil soup.
    (Some people’s quests are for the One True Ring; some are more modest)

    Below that, it’s a rotating list of favorites, but simple squash soups and gumbos are always near the top.

    ETA: And pho with all the weird bits like tendon and tripe that I’d never eat in anything else.

  217. 217
    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Army habit.

  218. 218
    Baud says:


    Congrats, man.

  219. 219
    Jeffro says:

    Orange Crash is busy tweeting away trying to refute the Dems’ memo. Tick, tock…

  220. 220
    Ninedragonspot says:

    @mad citizen: luv, luv, luv my instant pot – particularly for its ability to quickly cook dried beans. Also very handy with stew meats, pork shoulder, and stir-free risotto (for family – guests get hand-cranked risotto).

  221. 221
    MoxieM says:

    @WaterGirl: That’s funny. I’m good with lemongrass, but anything with Bergamot in it (besides Earl Grey tea) tastes like bathroom cleaner to me. Just yuck.

  222. 222
    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @Ruckus: I always took hot sauce to the field when I was in the army. I was not alone.

  223. 223
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    @Adam L Silverman:

    Small (or maybe large) correction. U of Chicago is his alma mater, but he taught at and is a Lecturer Emeritus at Northwestern. I believe he still lives in Evanston.

    Years ago — 20? 25? — I read a couple of collections of Epstein’s “familiar essays,” and I recall finding them rather engaging. Don’t think I’ve ever read any of his political or politico-social stuff; certainly haven’t opened the Weekly Standard piece under discussion.

  224. 224
    Ninedragonspot says:

    My special-treat soup, which I do not make, has stinky tofu, intestines, duck’s blood and spicy sauce. Common in Taiwanese night markets and soooo tasty.

  225. 225
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    You didn’t read it? Then you were wiser than I.

  226. 226
  227. 227
    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @raven: Cool.

  228. 228
    Amir Khalid says:

    If he keeps it up, the shitgibbon is bound to say something stupidly self-incriminating. He’s working very hard to help make Bobby Three Sticks’ eventual case against him.

  229. 229
  230. 230
    Gravenstone says:

    @Spanky: There’s kind of an odd dichotomy to celebrity deaths. Either ‘gone too soon’, or ‘you mean they were still alive?!?’

  231. 231
    raven says:

    @raven: Hmm, a soldier.

    Walter Stauffer McIlhenny (October 22, 1910 – June 22, 1985) served as president of McIlhenny Company, maker of Tabasco brand pepper sauce, from 1949 until his death in 1985. He also distinguished himself as a member of the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve — receiving the Navy Cross for his actions during the Battle of Guadalcanal and retiring as a brigadier general. He was a co-founder, trustee, and president emeritus of the Marine Military Academy in Harlingen, Texas.

    I also didn’t realize that it’s his helmet with the dent from the Japanese sword displayed at the WW2 museum in New Orleans. Click the link above to see it on the wiki page.

  232. 232
  233. 233
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Ninedragonspot: Somehow I’m not rushing to Taiwan to try it.

  234. 234
    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @Amir Khalid: It’s almost like he wants to do the COL Jessup courtroom scene on Twitter.

  235. 235
    p.a. says:

    Oh almost forgot pollock jjigae (fresh not frozen pollock) 👍👍. Only issue was it was my 1st experience w Korean steel chopsticks, and the pollock was split and cut but not boned. Lucky for me it was so perfectly cooked I could place it in a side dish, peel the meat off as if I knew what I was doing, and return it to the stock. Fiery spicy. Don’t think it’s on the menu any more.

  236. 236
    raven says:

    @OmnesOmnibus: Whenever I told “indigenous people” I was from Chicago the first thing they would say was “Al Capone”!!!

  237. 237
    Baud says:

    @OmnesOmnibus: Maybe that’s why he lies all the time. He thinks we can’t handle the truth.

  238. 238
    WaterGirl says:

    @Doug R: I only see 4 names in the footnote. What am I missing?

  239. 239
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    During my first trip to the U.K. (1959), I constantly got the same reaction.

    ETA: Indigenous Brits.

  240. 240
    OmnesOmnibus says:


    No truth-handler you!

    Surprisingly on point.

  241. 241
    dmsilev says:

    @OmnesOmnibus: He’s more Captain Queeg, though less competent or emotionally stable.

  242. 242
    WaterGirl says:

    @MomSense: How are you feeling after your fall? Guessing not good.

  243. 243
    satby says:

    @raven: I usually heard that with the tommy gun imitation.
    Now the last few times I’ve travelled overseas, it’s “Barack Obama” people say when they hear I’m from Chicago. Much better!

  244. 244
  245. 245
    raven says:

    @satby: Well, Al had his place.

  246. 246
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jeffro: I have a Floriduh! Man post scheduled for 11 PM EST that interconnects the President and Floriduh’s most dangerous indigenous species.

  247. 247
    magurakurin says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: I have to admit, Venice was not my favorite place. You description is totally accurate and it is an amazing place but there are just so many visitors. I really have conflicted feelings about it. Glad to have seen such a unique and beautiful historic place, but also a bit guilty to trample a bit on what is a dying city in human terms. Not sure what they can do there, but as a real, living, vibrant city, Venice is in great danger. Few people can afford to live there or stand the daily crush of humanity that surges through the city. Most of the residents have moved out and when you wander around you find little plazas and streets that seem almost abandoned and the brave souls who have stayed are none too friendly…and who can blame them. It’s a difficult conundrum.

  248. 248
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yep. That’s why I wrote he’s a professor emeritus at Northwestern and a life long Chicagoan. Never said he was a professor at U Chicago.

  249. 249
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Amir Khalid: Once I saw who the author was, I didn’t need to read it.

  250. 250
    WaterGirl says:

    @raven: Al Capone lived next door to me when I was growing up. HIs name was on the mailbox for one of the apartments next door, anyway. As a kid I was sure it was the real Al Capone. Who knows?

    I also thought the stars followed me, because no matter where I walked, the same star was right above me.

  251. 251
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @raven: Sea Soldier.

    As opposed to see, Soldier.

    Also, obligatory:

  252. 252
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @OmnesOmnibus: Jessup had a better hair cut.

  253. 253
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @WaterGirl: The fifth was Page who was referenced in the text of the report.

  254. 254
    raven says:

    @WaterGirl: One of his machine gunners lived down the street from my dad’s house in Villa Park.

  255. 255
    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: And a Navy Cross.

  256. 256
    raven says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Eat the apple and fuck the corps.

  257. 257
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @dmsilev: I did buy strawberries on my way home from the gym.

  258. 258
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I was in the blue water navy. A lifetime ago. We didn’t have Crap rations or MREs, or good food for that matter. Now if one had been out to sea on anything less than a carrier for some time what we did have were saltines. Stale but with extra protein. And the occasional individual small boxes of cereal. Also stale with extra protein. And no milk. Yummmm.

  259. 259
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @MomSense: You fell? I’m sorry. Hope you’re feeling better.

  260. 260
  261. 261
    frosty says:

    @magurakurin: My take on Venice from a visit in the 70s was that they’d been fleecing visitors since the 1400s and they were very good at it.

  262. 262
    frosty says:

    @Ruckus: Saltines? Same as the hardtack the British Navy got 400 years ago. That’s progress for you.

  263. 263
    Ruckus says:

    Grandma brought chickens at the butcher? Mine, gone now almost 60 yrs, would go out in the back yard and pick one up by the head and literally wring it’s neck for Sunday dinner. If you had any appetite left after all the prep the fried bird was delicious. Gran lived about a mile or so south west from USC.

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    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @frosty: I don’t think Ruckus got a rum ration.

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    raven says:

    @OmnesOmnibus: And they were fresh out of bubble gum . . .

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @OmnesOmnibus: Until President Sticky Fingers liberates one from a gullible supporter to go with his “purple heart”.

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    Ruckus says:

    I noticed that it didn’t make the food taste better, it just made everything taste like bad hot sauce.

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    Steve in the ATL says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: @efgoldman: @JPL: @SiubhanDuinne: I thought you guys were cool. I’m on probation with the front pagers for nym fraud and you’re ruining it for me! Now, let’s all meet at the Varsity for Coca-Cola products and be Atlanta people because that’s what we are.

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    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: The final and irrefutable way in which Jessup is superior to Trump is that Jessup is fictional.

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    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @Ruckus: Often an improvement.

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    Amir Khalid says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Why do you insult one of the greatest rock albums of all time, by using its title as a nickname for The Dotard?

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    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Boy howdy, I sure read that sideways! Sorry!

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    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @Amir Khalid: Well played.

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    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Well, that oped is proof that White Evangelicals are not followers of Jesus of Nazareth.

    They are, in fact, worshipers of Mammon and Moloch.

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    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Bless your heart.

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @OmnesOmnibus: During the first semester of my freshman year I convinced myself that my residence department assigned apartment mate was a bad figment of my imagination. When I came back from winter break he was gone. So it work

    The truth is he failed out in one semester.

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    Ruckus says:

    The ships store ran out of geedunk well before we ran out of what the navy called food. The ships store was about 4 ft square with an window in the door. What they sold mostly were cartons of cigs once we’d reached the 12 mile limit and didn’t have to charge taxes. A carton was if I remember $2.50, with a limit of 2. It seemed like 80% of the crew smoked, although smoking was only allowed in certain spaces and only when the smoking lamp was lit. I could be wrong about the percentage.

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    Ruckus says:

    Damn it no we didn’t. At the time the British navy had a 2 beer per day limit, with the navy supplying the beer. As best as I could tell all of the European sailors that we talked to had liquor rations. Alas not in the country that had prohibition.

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    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @Ruckus: At least scurvy had been wiped out.

    ETA: I know I told you the story of the Bainbridge, my uncle, and pancakes.

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    Ken says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    If he keeps it up, the shitgibbon is bound to say something stupidly self-incriminating.

    Wasn’t that point passed months ago? A TV interview where he basically said “I fired Comey because he wouldn’t stop the investigation”?

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    Ruckus says:

    Quite possibly. But the worst, and I mean by miles, worst food I had in the navy was at Great Lakes. Stationed there for tech school, it was most days totally inedible. We were marched there for lunch every day so couldn’t go to the club for a sandwich or burger. Longest 3 months of my life. No amount of hot sauce would make it edible. I have stories. The filet of brontosaurus butt every Thursday was especially inedible.

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    Jay says:


    There’s beets, and then there’s beets.

    Other than sugar beets, beets need a good rich soil high in sulphur, to really get flavour, then they need a frost for the sugars, then, the longer they are in storage, other than a real root cellar, their sugars convert to carbo’s,

    I got a local restaurant to buy my beets, after trying their borsch. I talked to the chef, noted that it was “good”, but the beets sucked.

    Dropped off a bag of beets and carrots a couple of days later, and the kitchen staff fought over them raw.

    1960 kilos of beets a year, 1280 kilo’s of carrots.

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    Ruckus says:


    I know I told you the story of the Bainbridge and pancakes.

    It rings a very dim bell. But the details seem to have eluded me.

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    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @Ruckus: I will concede the field. Navy food is worse than army food.

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: No worries.

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    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @Ruckus: My uncle was a plank holder for the Bainbridge. He was part of an all nuke flotilla that did a circumnavigation without resupply to show they could. From Australia to Norfolk, pancakes were the only food served. It was about 20 years before he could eat them again.

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    Ruckus says:

    Some how I doubt that. Sure it can be inedible, sure it could have extra protein, sure it could almost cause a mutiny, but I’ve heard way too many stories about army food to believe it’s better on average. It’s just that I came from a family that ate at good restaurants and my mom and her sisters were all great cooks. My sister was even better and I’m not half bad. So any military food is going to pale compared to that. Hell I had to teach my first live in girlfriend how to boil water. Literally. I just find it fun to discuss how bad the food was in any place where it’s cooked in steam kettles and starts out with the printing on the box, FDA, Allowed for human consumption. That’s a pretty low standard.

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    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @Ruckus: My battalion’s cooks won awards for gourmet cooking using a field kitchen. Day after day, they produced dreck, I assume the military wanted it that way.

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    Ruckus says:

    Yes, now I remember it. Fun times that must have been. My most hated meal is chicken and that’s from the navy. I used to love it, even after watching gran fix it from live bird to the table. I can eat it occasionally from the right place but cook it myself? NFW and it’s only been 45 yrs since I was discharged.

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    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @Ruckus: His stories were part of the reason I went army, not navy.

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    Ruckus says:

    I’ve written here before about the mutiny that the cooks came very close to causing. It’s like the kid writing home from summer camp, “The food here is horrible and there isn’t enough of it.” Mostly it wouldn’t kill you but working on an around the clock schedule, being underway for weeks at a time, and eating crap is bad enough, when they don’t even make what the menu for the day says and tell you to fuck off if you complain……..There really was talk of breaking into the arms locker, although the gunners mates would probably have been in on it as well, and taking over the ship. Earnest talk. Very pissed off people, lifers included.

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    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Ruckus: weren’t there mutinies over hard tack?

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    OmnesOmnibus says:

    @Steve in the ATL: They did have rum.

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    Ruckus says:

    I went navy to avoid being drafted into the Marines as the life expectancy after being drafted into the Marines once you hit Vietnam, odds of which seemed to be around 99% was given as 2 weeks. 1/3 of draftees were being sent to the Marines when I joined, and in the lottery shortly after I did my number was 15. I know my odds of good things happening to me, the navy was better than being cannon fodder. Decades later I’m still here, as are you.

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    Ruckus says:

    @Steve in the ATL:
    OO has it right, there was rum. Beer actually for the enlisted but still better than navy coffee, or so I’ve been told.

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    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Ken: On national TV, no less.

    Guilty as sin of Obstruction.

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    J R in WV says:


    My number was either 27 or 72, didn’t matter which, they both went by February, when I got my letter. Tried for the Coast Guard, eyes not good enough, but plenty good enough to be a grunt in the jungle! So I went to the Navy. I was at Great Lakes in 1970, the food wasn’t terrible.

    On board the ship (AS-16) when we went to sea I lived on crackers, beef jerky and hot tea. Mostly. I worked on the mess deck for several months, so I knew how the food was made. The burgers on the hot line were OK, for the Navy.

    But many good stories, as well as awful.

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    Ruckus says:

    @J R in WV:
    Even then that was an old ship. Of course I was on a 10 yr old ship but really it probably looked little different from yours inside. Same bunks, same lockers. That didn’t change until ships built in the 70s.
    My Great Lakes time was Nov 70 to end of Jan 71, in B school. Did you do boot camp there? Mine was SD, literally next door to MCRD. I got to watch what I missed by not being drafted into the Marines. Was worth every day of the extra 2 yrs.
    As an engineering swab on a DDG, I didn’t have to do mess deck duty. I still had to eat there though. What I liked was having to unload a semi of food on the dock. You got to see what the food the cooks fucked up was to start with. Everything was only one step above “Not Approved for Human Consumption.”
    When we’d pull into a foreign port I’d find a bakery and buy fresh bread. That and peanut butter got me through a lot of days. But at some point before the next port you’d always run out of whatever food you could hide and you’d have to eat on the mess deck.
    ETA You are right some good stories. I met some great guys on the ship and some very much not so great guys.

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    Duane says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): I couldn’t read the FNYT article. Your comment, however, is classic.

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