The Kids are Amazing and the Parents Are Amazing

Here are a couple of clips from last night’s CNN Town Hall in Florida.

This man buried his daughter after she was shot in the back in school a week ago, and he takes it to Marco Rubio. How can he even speak, not to mention speak so eloquently?

I thought this wrap up interview where Don Lemon interviewed Douglas student Alfonso Calderon is just one example of the poise and sophistication that all of the students have shown on TV.

I wasn’t able to watch the whole thing last night, and I’ve just been watching clips this morning, so please call out more of this in the comments. I’ll be in DC on March 24, hope to see you there.






148 replies
  1. 1
    germy says:

    Dana Loesch came to me 10yrs ago pitching a sitcom starring herself: “A hot young mom who does far right radio show.” Said her age & looks would make 1 side hate her & 1 love her so everyone would watch. Was obsessed w the potential fame & money. I turned her down.

    — Paul Guyot (@Fizzhogg) February 22, 2018

  2. 2
    germy says:

    Watch how Tapper dismissively waves down one survivor after he asks a question:

    Watch Florida school shooting survivor Cameron Kasky demand of Sen. Marco Rubio: "Can you tell me right now that you will not accept a single donation from the NRA?" Via CNN. https://t.co/IkyMtqybho— HawaiiDelilah supports Democrats w. NRA F ratings (@HawaiiDelilah) February 22, 2018

  3. 3
    condorcet runner-up says:

    @germy: It takes a certain self-selecting type of person to trade your soul in for fame at all costs.

  4. 4
    condorcet runner-up says:

    @germy: Caught that too. Didn’t really matter given all the raw emotion un the room, but I was disappointed that Tapper reflexively went for “civility at all costs” instead of letting the moment sit. He looked like someone just peed in his oatmeal.

  5. 5
    Elmo says:

    These kids are mostly white, from a wealthy suburb, with supportive and educated parents. Is it wrong of me to observe that they are using their privilege to huge advantage and placing it in service to their community in a way we really aren’t used to seeing?

  6. 6
    donnah says:

    Dana Loesch showed herself (as my mother would say), which means she made a fool of herself. Ranting about “crazy people”, (and please, have we not progressed beyond that hateful, ignorant label?) Loesch looked like she was the one with mental health issues.

    Alfonso Calderon and others in his group are amazing. Having raised three sons, I recognize that our youth are a force to be reckoned with. They’re smart, they’re savvy, they have principles, and they know how to use social media. The Republicans are in for a fight with people who will not tolerate being told to go sit down and shut up. These young men and women are going to lead the fight against the NRA and gun proliferation. And we need to back them up.

  7. 7
    germy says:

    @condorcet runner-up: It’s an interesting thread. She pitched the idea; seemed obsessed that she was both “hot” and “conservative” which she described as a rare thing.

    She said it’d be a big hit, because one side would love her and one side would hate her, but everyone would watch.

    I’m glad they passed.

  8. 8

    @germy: I thought that was from the Onion.

  9. 9
    Big Ole Hound says:

    Hey , I hope every high school kid in America stays home from school until Congress reinstates the anti assault rifle ban and they all show up in D.C. or the state capitols.

  10. 10
    NotMax says:

    @schrodingers_cat

    The Onion is the new Herodotus.

  11. 11
    kattails says:

    “Dana Loesch is not living in reality.” And, “We don’t care about your muskets…”, like, we actually care about our current freaking reality which sucks, you flaming idiots. Kids having to die to push forward a sane cause and a sane country. They didn’t sign up for this. I am calling my all-female, all-Democratic legislators this morning. High school, for me, was a long time ago; trying to re-image the halls, the usual noise. And then just blood and death in the middle of your day. I just can’t.

  12. 12
    aimai says:

    @germy: Wasn’t that kind of a typical plot from the 80
    s? There was the liberal mom married to the military guy, bridget loves bernie–her’s would have been the conservative version of the sitcom whose name i can’t remember of the single mom with two daughters living in an apartment. But she’s wrong that liberals would have hate watched it.

  13. 13
    aimai says:

    @Elmo: mostly white? A bunch of kids who were killed where non white and the girl leader is definitively non white.

  14. 14
    chris says:

    This’ll be fun.

    (I'm going to be tweeting CPAC all day-ish – feel free to mute this thread rather than unfollowing me forever)— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) 22 February 2018

  15. 15

    I can never forgive the people and the party that made a man who was totally unprepared for the job, the president. He neither has the knowledge nor the temperament for the job.

  16. 16
    VOR says:

    Loesch gave the NRA line: we need better law enforcement, the problem is crazy people, never too many guns. Of course the issue of whether the NRA was in favor of more background checks or taking guns away from people with mental health issues was avoided. It was interesting when the moderator assumed the Sheriff was an NRA member (no, he was not).Loesch at one point seemed to be attacking the Sheriff, positioning this case as a failure of Law Enforcement. There was a statistic raised of 39 times someone went to the shooter’s house and Loesch tried to make it sound like it was 39 police visits (my bet is it was phone calls, people from other government agencies, not always the Police department), I noted one occasion where she said we need “good guys with guns”, I assume that phrase is a reflex by now and it slipped out.

  17. 17
    Woodrowfan says:

    @Elmo: maybe not the “white” part, but otherwise I think you may have point..

  18. 18
    germy says:

    @donnah: Speaking of mental health, someone found one of Dana’s tweets from 2014:

    Everyone wants to classify everything as a "mental health issue" so it absolves people of responsibility for their own actions.

    — Dana Loesch (@DLoesch) May 27, 2014

  19. 19
    Ignatius Donnelly says:

    @germy: Sure, they passed; but then the NRA picked up the option.

  20. 20
    low-tech cyclist says:

    How can he even speak, not to mention speak so eloquently?

    Damned if I know. I’d be a fucking basket case.

  21. 21
    El Caganer says:

    @Big Ole Hound: Don’t give them an excuse to de-fund public schools…..

  22. 22
    rikyrah says:

    America’s youth become America’s conscience on gun violence

    Rachel Maddow reports on the nationwide student demonstrations for gun safety and the particular pressure on legislators in Florida where students still grieving from the gun massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School rallied in the largest protest Tallahassee has seen in decades.
    Feb.21.2018

  23. 23
    Tom says:

    @germy: Isn’t there a sitcom currently in preparation that features a return of Roseanne as a Trump supporter? If so, may it have the briefest of runs before collapsing under the weight of massive lack of viewership.

  24. 24
    aimai says:

    @low-tech cyclist: Speaking about his daughter is the closest he will ever be to her again–getting up and out with the others students keeps her alive. I would do the same and I think the collapse comes afterwards. Say their names. Remember their names.

  25. 25
    Sab says:

    My 17 year old granddaughter had active shooter response training in school this week. Its part of the regular package along with tornado response.

    And yes, they were told to run around and scream and throw stuff at the shooter (to distract him so other kids could get away.) They were not told that’s why they were supposed to be doing that.

    Quite different from my high school experience.

    I am angry.

  26. 26
    Suzanne says:

    @germy:

    seemed obsessed that she was both “hot” and “conservative”

    Aside from the immutable fact that these two are mutually exclusive…..

    ……..she thinks she’s hot?

    I know, I’m sorry, I’m a huge B. Just, like…..she’s not hot.

  27. 27
    rikyrah says:

    Americans rally for gun safety with Trump, GOP the only obstacle

    Nicole Hockley, whose 6-year-old son was killed in the Sandy Hook shooting, and who is now the managing director of Sandy Hook Promise, talks with Rachel Maddow about the gun safety ideas that are ready to be implemented if they have a willing partner in Congress.

  28. 28
    Betty Cracker says:

    Loesch lied several times last night, and Tapper let her get away with it. For example, when she pretended that the NRA has always backed universal background checks. That’s a flat-out lie. This is posted on their “legislative action” page right now:

    NRA opposes expanding firearm background check systems, because background checks don’t stop criminals from getting firearms, because some proposals to do so would deprive individuals of due process of law, and because NRA opposes firearm registration.

    Background checks don’t necessarily stop criminals from getting firearms. Federal studies have repeatedly found that persons imprisoned for firearm crimes get their firearms mostly through theft, the black market, or family members or friends. Less than one percent get guns at gun shows. (Bureau of Justice Statistics)

    Most mass shooters, including those inspired by Islamic terrorist groups, pass background checks to acquire firearms.

    I don’t expect high school kids to know that, but Tapper should have acquainted himself with their basic positions as part of his prep for moderating the program. It’s pretty fucking simple, really: The NRA has been consistently against any measure that would reduce the pool of potential gun purchasers.

  29. 29
    rikyrah says:

    Sealed document in Manafort Gates case sparks eager speculation

    Rachel Maddow describes a new sealed document in the case of Paul Manafort and Rick Gates and what new development it could portend.
    Feb.21.2018

  30. 30
    rikyrah says:

    New right-wing Mike Flynn legal theory grasping at straws

    Chuck Rosenberg, former U.S. attorney, talks with Rachel Maddow about new developments in Robert Mueller’s Trump Russia investigation and a new right-wing hobby horse about Mike Flynn’s guilty plea.
    Feb.21.2018

  31. 31
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @low-tech cyclist: I never speak at funerals. #1- What’s to be said? #2 Even if I had something to say I’d never get it out.

  32. 32
    rikyrah says:

    GOP’s Tenney: Many mass murderers ‘end up being Democrats’
    02/22/18 08:40 AM
    By Steve Benen
    For quite a while, the public could see a headline that read something like, “GOP lawmaker says something nutty,” and make certain assumptions about who the Republican was. More often than not, the quotes in question seemed to come from Michele Bachmann, Louie Gohmert, or Paul Broun.

    But the torch has now been passed to a ridiculous new generation. Now, “GOP lawmaker says something nutty” can refer to any number of newer members of Congress. Take Rep. Claudia Tenney (R-N.Y.), for example.

    Many mass murders are perpetrated by Democrats, New York Republican Rep. Claudia Tenney said Wednesday in a radio discussion on gun control following the recent mass shooting at a Florida high school.

    “Obviously, there’s a lot of politics in it,” the congresswoman told the “Focus on the State Capitol” podcast hosted by Fred Dicker. “And it’s interesting that so many of these people that commit the mass murders end up being Democrats, but we don’t want to, the media doesn’t talk about that either.”

  33. 33
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    Quick question (because I don’t know) are people allowed to concealed carry at CPAC or even the NRA Convention for that matter?

  34. 34
    germy says:

    @Tom:

    Isn’t there a sitcom currently in preparation that features a return of Roseanne as a Trump supporter?

    She had a small part in the U.S. version of The Office. She was also a judge on Last Comic Standing. She’s good at appearing normal when a role calls for it, an appearance that evaporates when you listen to her political views. I have no idea what her new sitcom will be like. I’ll be watching Black Lightning instead.

  35. 35
    Suzanne says:

    @Sab: Spawn’s school was threatened over the weekend. She was freaking out about going to school on Tuesday. She went, the day was uneventful, she went home on the bus. Then the school went on lockdown after the school day ended and her best friend was there for a choir practice. They were all freaking TFO.

    However, I mentioned the Bloods and the Crips a few weeks ago, end she said, “What’s that?”. So our high school experiences are different.

  36. 36
    germy says:

    @rikyrah: That was reported on my local news, but they left out the racist comments. I guess they didn’t have time for all the horribleness.

  37. 37
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    Just saw, from my kitchen window here in San Francisco, what appeared to be a missile launch. Guessing it’s from Vandenberg AFB – looked like one I’ve seen from there before.

    Very cool as a spectacle in itself. Hope it’s not headed to North Korea.

  38. 38
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Suzanne: Speaking as a man, she is physically attractive. And the textbook definition of “Beauty is only skin deep.”

  39. 39
    rikyrah says:

    ‘My daughter had rights — they’ve all been terminated’: Parkland dad destroys obsession with 2nd Amendment https://t.co/VLmgzcNmim

    — Raw Story (@RawStory) February 22, 2018

  40. 40

    @Betty Cracker: Rs wouldn’t have been able to inflict as much damage as they have were the mainstream media not in bed with them. Hell, T wouldn’t have been President if they had just fucking done their jobs instead of hounding HRC over emailz.

  41. 41
    GregB says:

    @germy:

    The NRA and their bought swamp dwellers in Tallahassee curb stomped the First Amendment in service of the gun industry with their physician gag law.

    Physician gag law.

  42. 42
    Calouste says:

    @Suzanne: Self-awareness and self-criticism are not usually considered defining traits of conservatism.

  43. 43
    Immanentize says:

    @Tom:
    I think that show could work well. All in the Family for our times. Carrol O’Connor IRL was practically a Red. It was the problems he confronted as a bigot on the show that allowed the show to be progressive. And wildly popular. Roseanne could possibly pull it off.

  44. 44
    rikyrah says:

    You gotta be 21 to drink…but, can get a weapon of war at 18.

    Uh huh
    Uh huh

  45. 45
    NotMax says:

    @OzarkHillbilly

    Maybe a half-hour in to her father’s funeral, Mom leaned over and whispered, “Oh, by the way, I told everyone you’re giving the eulogy.”

    Told everyone – except me.

  46. 46

    @condorcet runner-up:

    I was disappointed that Tapper reflexively went for “civility at all costs”

    There has never been a shortage of people who can speak eloquently, with anger, openly and directly about the GOP ‘policy’ shit show. People who can easily counter every piece of talking point bullshit and punch back harder. But you know, that wouldn’t be civil, so until now the national press has done everything possible to not give them a megaphone. I suspect their own asshole fantasy world conservatism caught up with them, and they chased this ‘teenagers speaking out’ fad assuming kids are stupider than dreamy Republican statesmen like Marco Rubio.

  47. 47
    NotMax says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt

    Quick answer: No. Also no for open carry at CPAC (probably too for NRA, but am not totally certain of that.)

  48. 48
    chris says:

    Giant meteor now plz

    Dana Loesch says she'll say this slowly so the media can hear it: "Many in legacy media love. Mass. Shootings. You guys love it." "You love the ratings. Crying white mothers are ratings gold."This is truly disgusting.— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) 22 February 2018

  49. 49
    The Moar You Know says:

    Just saw, from my kitchen window here in San Francisco, what appeared to be a missile launch. Guessing it’s from Vandenberg AFB – looked like one I’ve seen from there before.

    Very cool as a spectacle in itself. Hope it’s not headed to North Korea.

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: Just Space X popping a few more satellites into orbit.

  50. 50
    cmorenc says:

    @Elmo:

    These kids are mostly white, from a wealthy suburb, with supportive and educated parents. Is it wrong of me to observe that they are using their privilege to huge advantage and placing it in service to their community in a way we really aren’t used to seeing?

    Um…what is your point here? That these kids are undeservedly gaining attention because they’re suburban upper-middle class white kids (mostly)? With the unstated implication that had the shootings been at a predominately minority school in a low-income neighborhood, they wouldn’t have been given the time of day by legislators and CNN? That the Parkland kids have somehow undeservedly shoved themselves ahead of equally deserving kids from less wealthy, nonwhite backgrounds whose violent neighborhoods and schools have lingered as such for years in neglect?

  51. 51
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @NotMax: Jeebus.

  52. 52
    germy says:

    I've covered a lot of mass shootings, and no, journalists don't love them. May God have mercy on your soul, you horrible person. https://t.co/5CZpNx0mfd

    — Soledad O'Brien (@soledadobrien) February 22, 2018

  53. 53
    germy says:

    @cmorenc:

    and yes, black and brown kids having been making this noise forever and theyve been ignored. but i dont think theyre in competition with the parkland kids. protect all the damn kids.

    — Oliver Willis (@owillis) February 22, 2018

  54. 54
    Gex says:

    @VOR: Loesch citing law enforcement is laughable anyhow.

    The problem with overly permissive gun rights is that it removes opportunities for law enforcement to intervene prior to violence. If Cruz did not legally own the gun, they could have done something. Absent that they couldn’t. Time and time again we read stories of people calling cops about threatening men with military style weapons stalking around areas menacingly, cops get called, talk to the guy, and then leave because their hands are tied.

    They’re going to have to give the law something to work with if the expect the law to do more.

  55. 55
    Lapassionara says:

    @Betty Cracker: This. Any half-way competent journalist should have prepped on actual NRA positions on these types of issues. That he did not is a complete failure on his part. But yet he still has his job.

  56. 56
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @The Moar You Know: SpaceX flies out of Cape Canaveral, right?

    ETA: gotta get ready for work, no time to Google, so I ask the hive mind.

  57. 57
    Jeffro says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: There’s so much crazy behind those eyes, it more than negates anything else.

  58. 58
    Jeffro says:

    Oh good:
    1) Trumpov is doubling down on his BESTEST IDEA EVAR!!1! of arming teachers. Hey you dumb fuck, it’s okay to take 2 seconds to think through an issue, or incorporate feedback into your view of an issue.

    2) I see Wayne LaPierre is busy bashing “opportunists” who are out to take away his gun profits…er…I mean, his guns…

  59. 59
    Jeffro says:

    @Jeffro: Oh and also (per Orange Crash): “Wayne, Chris, and the folks who work so hard at the @NRA are great people!” Hmm…where have I heard this before?

  60. 60
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Jeffro: Gun nuts are the whiniest fucking snowflakes on the goddamned planet. Loesch is claiming she barely escaped the CNN forum with her life last night.

  61. 61
    Mnemosyne says:

    @cmorenc:

    With the unstated implication that had the shootings been at a predominately minority school in a low-income neighborhood, they wouldn’t have been given the time of day by legislators and CNN?

    Of course students from a majority-minority school wouldn’t have been given the time of day by the MSM, especially in Trump’s America. It would have just been more evidence of “urban crime” and the need to lock up all minority boys (and most of the girls).

    That the Parkland kids have somehow undeservedly shoved themselves ahead of equally deserving kids from less wealthy, nonwhite backgrounds whose violent neighborhoods and schools have lingered as such for years in neglect?

    Other way around: the Parkland kids are using their class and race privilege to champion all kids in danger. That’s what Elmo says she’s not used to seeing: white people using their powers for good.

    Of course, the fact that so many of the kids have Hispanic last names means fhey’re not actually white, especially by Florida standards, but I think I know what Elmo was trying to say about using one’s existing privilege in a good cause.

  62. 62
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Suzanne: She’s got a hard, cold, angry look about her that probably comes from the empty space inside her where her soul should be

  63. 63
    condorcet runner-up says:

    @Betty Cracker: as is oft-repeated around here, it’s always projection with these assholes.

  64. 64
    bemused says:

    I’ve avoided any news of Loesch for years. Just saw her on msnbc and she’s the same horror I remember.

    LaPierre knows how to push rightwinger resentment buttons telling them we liberals think we are so much better and smarter than they are. I think this is a common denominator belief for most if not all rightwingers.

  65. 65
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Loesch is claiming she barely escaped the CNN forum with her life last night.

    In a just world, that would be true. She’s a horrible person who facilitates mass murder.

    Actually, in a just world, she would be working as a public school custodian cleaning up vomit and shit. But we don’t live in a just world. 😒

  66. 66
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @rikyrah: she later said that her comments were ‘taken out of context”. How do you take a statement like that out of context?

  67. 67
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @chris: As if the NRA doesn’t love mass shootings.

  68. 68
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Just One More Canuck:

    The “context” is that idiots like Tenney think that a majority of murders in the United States are committed by Black and Hispanic people. This is not true, as even a casual glance at the FBI’s crime statistics would tell you, but it’s an article of faith for conservatives.

    (Most murders in the US are committed by white people, who mostly kill other white people. In fact, the majority of serious crimes committed (including murder and rape/sexual assault) are intraracial crimes.)

  69. 69

    @bemused: I have noticed one thing in common with RWNJs in general, they want to behave horribly but wanted to be praised and feted for their behavior.

  70. 70
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @bemused: The two sentiments every non-wealthy Republican holds are that liberals look down on them and that liberals want to take Republicans’ hard-earned money to give out goodies to black and brown people. That’s what that party stands for, and it is why their voters vote for them.

  71. 71
    NotMax says:

    @Jeffro

    Tomorrow’s tweets today.

    “Get rid of schools. No schools. no school shootings! SIMPLE!”

  72. 72
    different-church-lady says:

    @Elmo: a) extraordinary circumstances
    B) not just their community: the entire country

  73. 73
    bemused says:

    @germy:

    I would not doubt this one bit. Most publicly known rightwingers are in it for big bucks, fame and power.

  74. 74
    Mnemosyne says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    It’s part of the social privilege they don’t want to give up. In their minds, non-white people being allowed to criticize the behavior and actions of white people is the end of Western civilization. 🙄

  75. 75
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Mnemosyne: An extremely Trumpified wingnut friend-of-a-friend was excitedly meme-spreading last week about how Charles Whitman, the mass shooter at U of Texas, was a Democrat. I didn’t have the patience to explain to him that ex-Marine Texans in 1966 were very unlikely to be Democrats in the way he means.

  76. 76
    Woodrowfan says:

    when are you arriving in DC? Possible Balloon Juice meetup??

  77. 77
    aimai says:

    @Mnemosyne: But even if we granted the fantasy/wish that these murders were caused by democrats why is it the democrats who want to find a solution which prevents further massacres, while the Republicans insist its not possible? I mean–someone should follow her down the rabbit hole and pull her back out by her ears, while giving her a swift kick in the ass, if the two are not mutually exclusive. Like: Ok, your riduculously stupid woman, granted your premise what is your solution?

  78. 78
    bystander says:

    When I saw the kids staging a Die In, I thought, “Act Up really taught people the effectiveness of protest.” Now I realize their reaction is somewhat more like my generation’s reaction to the War in Vietnam. They feel an existential threat posed by the ammosexuals of the country.

  79. 79

    @bemused:
    We mostly do think we’re better and smarter than they are. Anyone who voted for Trump has demonstrated both stupidity and assholishness.

  80. 80
    Jeffro says:

    @Betty Cracker: If they would just take their anxiety meds, conservatives would be happier people. I can’t imagine the constant stream of boogeymen that prowls through their heads 24/7

  81. 81
    tracy ratclif says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: Sapce-X also launches out of Vandenburg. Vandenburg is a better place to launch satellites into polar orbits, orbits that pass over or near the North and South Poles.

  82. 82
    Tokyokie says:

    I don’t think I’ve ever seen a politician visibly shrink as Lil Marco does during that exchange with Mr. Guttenberg. Forget the White House, Marco, you won’t even win re-election to the Senate. As Marlene Dietrich says to Orson Welles in Touch of Evil, “Your future’s all used up.”

  83. 83
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @aimai: There you go with your so-called “logic”

  84. 84

    @aimai:
    Because that would mean the problem is Democrats, and Republicans should get to own all the guns they want. Also, ‘We are the righteous and everyone else is immoral/lazy/weak’ is one of the core features of conservatism. Because they’re assholes.

  85. 85
    bystander says:

    @Betty Cracker: You act as if Tapper feels obligated to point out the truth if he knew a panel member spoke in error. Tapper may very well know the truth about the NRA. He’s just there to ask questions, not take sides between truth and untruth.

  86. 86

    @Mnemosyne: RWNJs in India exhibit the exact same behavior. Replace white by upper caste and male (mostly but not always).

  87. 87
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Tokyokie: Oh, man, I love that movie.

  88. 88
    billcoop4 says:

    Broward County has a district-wide debate requirement for all students at the high school level, and all of the high schools have active and competitive speech and debate teams–a community that has been talking about issues of privilege for years.

    These are the wrong kids to be condescending to or dismissive of.

    BC

  89. 89
    NotMax says:

    @Tokyokie

    Top tier film. Even Charlton Heston couldn’t ruin it.

  90. 90
    bemused says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Hell, yes! I’ve heard republicans I know say this crap all my life. Rage and resentment is a core driver for them paired with greed and selfishness. It really resonated with me when Emma Gonzalez said all she hears is mine, mine, mine, mine.

    @schrodingers_cat:

    More than that, they want to be dictators or be ruled by dictators that will allow them to lord over and punish liberals.

  91. 91
    Mnemosyne says:

    @aimai:

    @Mnemosyne: But even if we granted the fantasy/wish that these murders were caused by democrats why is it the democrats who want to find a solution which prevents further massacres, while the Republicans insist its not possible?

    The Republicans think Democrats are lying about wanting to find a solution. They think that the “real” reason Democrats want gun control is so Republicans will be helpless against the Black and brown hordes that are slavering to take all of their stuff.

    We are not dealing with rational actors here. They are acting irrationally based on their fear and anger over losing their automatic race privilege.

  92. 92
    WaterGirl says:

    @cmorenc: I read that as Elmo acknowledging that for once white privilege was being used for good.

  93. 93
    bemused says:

    @Jeffro:

    Ha, ha. I just told my husband it’s too bad we can’t put them all on some strong happy meds.

  94. 94
    Mnemosyne says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yep. It’s a privilege thing, not a “white” thing. People at the top of a social system always react violently when their place is threatened.

  95. 95
    Jeffro says:

    Idea – why don’t we open up another winnable front in this war, and ask Marco Rubio (and every other pol):

    “if you’re so beholden to that sweet, sweet campaign cash from big corporations (like the gun companies), how about if we help you out by supporting major campaign finance reform and an amendment to overturn Citizens United? That way, Marco, you dick, you won’t have to spend half of every waking day on your knees begging for donations. You could actually, y’know, legislate/govern. You just might even find a principle or two rollin’ around in that old thing you used to call a heart, and you might even be able to sleep at night knowing you didn’t take NRA blood money. What do you say?”

  96. 96
    japa21 says:

    The thing about Rubio’s weak answer on the assault weapons ban is that it misses the whole point. So there is a loophole. Then write the bill so the loophole doesn’t exist. Is that so hard. The dad didn’t hit him on that, but I don’t blame him. The dad’s point, equally valid, is that just because one step doesn’t solve every problem, we still need to take that first step.

    And as I said last night, the people talking about armed security guards and arming teachers are pursuing an answer to the wrong question. Doing those things wouldn’t stop the mass shootings, just, at best, lower the body count. Instead of 17 dead, it might be 10 dead. See saved 7 lives. Too bad about the 10 that were killed before the shooter was shot.

    The correct question to find the answer to is how to stop the shootings in the first place.

    An assault weapon ban won’t stop all. Size of magazine limit would actually go further but still won’t. What really needs to change is the attitude in much of America that using a gun is an okay way to deal with anger, frustration and any sense of being endangered. That is partly why letting police officers get away with murder is having such a negative effect on our society. They can shoot and kill someone just because they “think” they may be in danger so why shouldn’t everyone else?

  97. 97
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷 says:

    How can he even speak, not to mention speak so eloquently?

    He’s an actor!

    /s

  98. 98
    bemused says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I think it’s a combo of projection and deliberately spinning lies to get what they want.

  99. 99
    NotMax says:

    @japa21

    Ruspublicans don’t do multi-faceted.

    Or nuance, for that matter.

  100. 100
    Jeffro says:

    (picture of Marco Rubio w/ sad face)

    VOICEOVER: this is “lil Marco”. He’s sad because despite 17 kids getting murdered in their classrooms last week, he still feels he has to take the NRA’s blood money in order to run for/win his elected office.

    (picture of Douglass HS student) (cartoon light bulb pops into picture above student’s head)

    VOICEOVER: I know! While we’re busy working on gun safety measures that address all the many facets of America’s gun violence problem…let’s get started on serious campaign finance reform! So that “lil Marco” and politicians just like him don’t have to take NRA blood money and vote against their own constituents’ interests…and lives.

    (picture of Marco Rubio smiling, hugging seniors, kissing babies)

    VOICEOVER: see, Marco? It’s not that hard! Aww…look how happy he is!

  101. 101
  102. 102
    bemused says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    We do with good reason. I gotta think a lot of them know they are on the wrong side of facts but just don’t give a damn. They want what they want and they don’t want to hear anything that contradicts them from snooty liberals.

  103. 103
    evodevo says:

    @Suzanne: See: SE Cupp and Ann Coulter for similar delusions lol

  104. 104
    Tom says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Of course, Whitman was also an Eagle Scout, so we need to stomp out that terrorist organization called the Boy Scouts.

  105. 105
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @bemused:

    More than that, they want to be dictators or be ruled by dictators that will allow them to lord over and punish liberals.

    Conservatives, when given the choice of sharing the country with Others who have the same rights as them, will choose dictatorship in the guise of democracy every time.

  106. 106
    Ajabu says:

    @NotMax:
    Yes. I love that movie, also. But admittedly, Charlton Heston as a Mexican detective was a hell of a stretch. Talk about “suspension of disbelief”

  107. 107
    lgerard says:

    I’m sure Wayne Lapierre, the Cowardly Lobbyist,, will seize on this to prove that guns are not the real problem

    Man Assaults Gas Station Cashier With Hot Dogs

  108. 108
    NotMax says:

    @Ajabu

    Heston had one speed. “Acting? Pshaw. I’m tall, imposing, and have a deep voice.”

  109. 109
    Tokyokie says:

    @NotMax:

    Top tier film. Even Charlton Heston couldn’t ruin it.

    My contempt for Heston has mellowed over the years, probably since learning that he died of Alzheimer’s. I think the right wing used him much as they did that other famous dementia-stricken luminary, Reagan, and Heston, craving the adulation he’d enjoyed during the 1950s and no longer having the cognitive ability to see what Wayne ThePeter and his ilk were doing with him, went along. But without Heston using his clout, neither Orson Welles’ Touch of Evil nor Sam Peckinpah’s Major Dundee would have been made, so I can’t hate too much on the guy. Sure, he’s about as convincing as a Mexican cop as, say, Wally Cox would have been as Ethan Edward in The Searchers, but his droll comedic performance in Dick Lester’s Musketeers movies leads me to believe that before the atrophy of his cerebrum, he had a good sense of his own ridiculousness.

    (I was once right behind Heston in an airport security line, and my first thought was, “Hey! That’s Charlton Heston!” But then I thought, “Nah, he’s too stooped and frail to be Charlton Heston.” But then, it was, “By golly, it is Charlton Heston!” It was only as the airport VIP cart whisked him and his wife away that I thought of the clever retort: “Strip-search the bastard! He loves guns!” And yes, my slow-wittedness likely saved me a stretch in jail and a very large fine.)

  110. 110
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    @rikyrah:

    “We at the NRA thank you for your family’s sacrifice for our profits and our stretched interpretation of the second amendment”.

  111. 111
    bemused says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷:

    Yup. They constantly accused Obama of being a dictator. They’re fine with a dictator that resembles them. The puzzle for me is how the republicans who are far from being wealthy can believe a republican dictatorship would be good for them. My guess is that being free to be assholes to people they resent and hate 24/7 is their dream.

  112. 112
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @lgerard: The only thing that stops a bad guy with a hot dog a good guy with a hot dog

    And of course it was in Florida

  113. 113
    NotMax says:

    @tokyokie

    Sometime, when you absolutely, positively have nothing better to do, find the version of A Man for all Seasons he produced and starred in as Thomas More.

  114. 114
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I can’t take credit, but somebody yesterday posted that she should have been wheeled in on a cart, trussed up like Hannibal Lecter.

  115. 115
    Sab says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷: Call your Congresscritter. He’s sort of on the fence. I live in Akron and my 17 year old granddaughter had active shooter response training in school this week. THIS IS NOT NORMAL. They need to change the laws back to how they used to be.

    People shouldn’t be wandering around with semi-automatics. Not useful for protection.Not useful for hunting. Only two uses: fun at gun range, and mass murder.

    I do not want my granddaughter to be worrying about mass shootings so that a few idiots can have fun at a gun range.

  116. 116
    Mandalay says:

    @germy:

    Watch how Tapper dismissively waves down one survivor after he asks a question

    I did, and what you claim is not what happened at all:
    – The student asked Rubio a question: “Senator Rubio, can you tell me right now that you will not accept a single donation from the NRA?”.
    – The crowd went nuts for 10 seconds, but as the applause died down the student went off on an unrelated rant about the “NRA lady” while Rubio tried to answer his question. Tapper let him rant.
    – Then, when Rubio finally said “What was that? I’m sorry…”, the student replied “I don’t friggin’ know…”.
    THAT was the point at which Tapper waved down the student so that Rubio could answer the original question. Tapper is a pompous ass, but he let student continue speaking until he had finished.

  117. 117
    NotMax says:

    @Tokyokie

    Someplace in an alternate universe there must be a version of The Dirty Dozen which features the bold casting choice of Wally Cox.

    ;)

  118. 118
    Gex says:

    @FlipYrWhig: They are very happy to cite the Reagan Revolution when it suits their needs, then forget the realignment when its convenient. Pointing it out wouldn’t have helped because they know these facts. The point is to mislead.

  119. 119
    zhena gogolia says:

    @NotMax:

    Well, almost . . . .

  120. 120
    zhena gogolia says:

    @NotMax:

    “Oh, Moses, Moses!”

  121. 121
    Gex says:

    How’s the GOP’s proposed solution going to look? A little like this, I suppose:

    Teacher left gun in bathroom, elementary kids discover it

  122. 122
    Tokyokie says:

    @NotMax: I’ve seen bits of it, and I’ve read (or maybe it was in a Turner Movie Classics intro) that Heston didn’t like Paul Scofield’s interpretation of the role and decided to do a version of his own. It’s a noble effort, but I prefer the Scofield version, if for no other reason, Fred Zinnemann was a much better film director than Heston. While watching the Heston version, I couldn’t help but compare it to the Zinnemann version, and the Zinnemann film doesn’t suffer from the budget constraints Heston’s does and the roster of actors Zinnemann had at his disposal, with the likes of John Hurt and Colin Blakely in minor roles, is astounding. (Interestingly, Vanessa Redgrave shows up in both versions, playing Anne Boleyn for Zinnemann and Lady Alice More in Heston’s film, and Robert Bolt wrote the screenplays for both films.)

    @NotMax: I’m not sure which is ore incongruous, Wally Cox as Maj. Reisman, or Lee Marvin as Mr. Peepers.

  123. 123
    chris says:

    Heh. Via DKOS, from 1968, the very first Flying Fickle Finger of Fate!

    50 years ago!

  124. 124
    aimai says:

    @Mnemosyne: Very good point! Let me rephrase my question then:

    Even if all mass murderers and spree killers were democrats what the fuck are republicans proposing to do about it?

  125. 125
    NotMax says:

    @zhena gogolia

    “Forty years to get here? I knew I shouldn’t have taken that left at Albuquerque.”

    ;)

  126. 126
    Mandalay says:

    @rikyrah: This is the word salad Tenney came up with last week on Rob Porter’s departure:

    “Right, except blackmail and domestic situations don’t really line up, they’re not crimes of character,” she said. “They’re [crimes of] character but they’re not dishonesty—know this. To me… just because somebody has been accused of these things and even if they’re true that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s going to be dishonest and commit blackmail. I don’t think it was a great hire if these are true, but again, are these true?”

    Cook Political Report has her seat down as a “toss up” in November, but the sheer volume of stupidity she spews on everything will offer some devastating attack ads against her.

  127. 127
    randy khan says:

    @cmorenc:

    I think that was praise, not criticism.

  128. 128
    gvg says:

    @WaterGirl: The civil rights laws of LBJ and that era were white privilege being used for good. Some, not the majority but a significant part of the privileged class sided with the picked on side to tilt the balance and get something done. It helps, often it’s necessary. That’s when it’s morally right to use it.
    this time it’s going to help too but look out. the real racists will “see” those kids differently than we do or even the busy not engaged middle. I swear they see white democrats as not white even if we happen to be pale and blond. There was a certain amount of truth to calling Bill Clinton the first black president but maybe that should have been LBJ.

  129. 129
    Fair Economist says:

    @Immanentize:

    Carrol O’Connor IRL was practically a Red. It was the problems he confronted as a bigot on the show that allowed the show to be progressive. And wildly popular. Roseanne could possibly pull it off.

    Carrol O’Connor was a liberal IRL, and that allowed the show to be basically about showing up Archie, which is why it worked for liberals even though the main character was a nasty conservative (oops, being repetitive there..)

    Roseanne Barr IRL is a Trump supporter and the new Roseanne is not going to be about showing her up. It’s her show, after all. It’s going to be vile, and it’s going to flop. All in the Family was actually Norman Lear’s show and could have had the same message even if O’Conner were conservative, but I don’t think it would have worked so well then because he wouldn’t have played his part as well.

  130. 130

    some wingnut on Twitter was asking “How would I feel if my child publicly shamed a sitting US Senator?”

    I tweeted back “I would buy her a new Lexus.”

  131. 131

    @lgerard:

    A good guy with hot dogs will win every time.

  132. 132
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Fair Economist: I’m sure a year ago when Roseanne’s Shitshow was greenlit, it seemed like a good decision at the time.

  133. 133
    Tenar Arha says:

    I couldn’t bring myself to watch any of the things yesterday. At all. Of course the “Listening Session” was always going to be impossible, bc it was obviously going to be too screened & too polite at the expense of clarity regarding any issues. (Plus since he’s a moral & intellectual black hole anything he said would make it worse).

    @Betty Cracker:

    Loesch lied several times last night, and Tapper let her get away with it.

    But this is why I decided I would not watch CNN. First wrong was the decision to invite Loesch, like she was a legislator rather than a lobbyist. And then there was the continuing failure to point out lies by, in this case, a pundit who has shown the occasional flare of competence. It’s like there’s a ceiling of mediocrity that seems to cling to the majority of the profession as soon as they have to interact with someone who they might have to talk to in the future that makes me so 😠😡🤬. I just can’t watch.

    ETA
    1. Thanks for watching so I don’t have to.
    2. typo fixt

  134. 134
    Fair Economist says:

    @PaulWartenberg:

    some wingnut on Twitter was asking “How would I feel if my child publicly shamed a sitting US Senator?”

    How would it feel to have a US Senator so dim or dishonest he could be shamed by a child on national TV?

  135. 135
    lizzie says:

    Someone in my Facebook feed pointed out that Philando Castile worked at a school and legally owned a gun and look where that got him. Just imagine nonwhite schoolteachers etc. being expected to bring their guns to school.

  136. 136
    kattails says:

    @aimai: While I have to agree with Mnemosyne’s reply further down thread, I like your metaphor. Pull her out by her ears. She’d be shrieking.

  137. 137
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    “… you stubborn, splendid, adorable fool!”

  138. 138
    Suzanne says:

    @Just One More Canuck:

    She’s got a hard, cold, angry look about her that probably comes from the empty space inside her where her soul should be

    She has a generic, Land’s End-model look to her. The epitome of “basic”. Nothing about that gets my motor going in the slightest.

  139. 139
    BluegirlFromWyo says:

    @Gex: The best answer to that is “52 years ago? Try again.”

  140. 140
    Miss Bianca says:

    @aimai: Right. I wish someone would follow this line of ‘reasoning’ to the logical conclusion: “Wow, so if most mass shooters are Democrats, how do you explain the fact that it’s only Democrats are interested in trying to stop them?”

  141. 141
    opiejeanne says:

    @Jeffro: I wish that worked on my sister but she’s so focused on gasoline taxes that she can’t hear any sense. And it’s not like she drives a lot or spends much on gasoline, but dammit they’re going to charge her a few more cents for that gas.
    My niece underwent a positive change and stopped listening to RW pastors and politicians but mostly pastors when she started taking anti-depressants.

  142. 142
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @NotMax: Trevor Noah or Colbert put this forward as THE solution to school shootings.

  143. 143
    Duane says:

    @Betty Cracker: Loesch is on her radio show with Ben Dominech complaining the “other side” isn’t being relistic and responsible. I saw irony die its thousandth death.

  144. 144
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Fair Economist:
    Liberals think All in the Family made it completely clear that Archie’s views were stupid. I watched with and listened to people who thought Archie was right on, telling the truth to brainwashed Meathead.

    Because of frequently seeing this reaction, I think the show was a disaster for our society. It put rightwing bigotry in prime time where many could decide ‘well, if it’s on tv it must be true!’ Or could claim ‘it’s true, that’s why it’s on tv!’

  145. 145
    sukabi says:

    @low-tech cyclist: anger and outrage. This is the reality these kids have had to live with their entire school lives. I can’t imagine having to go to school and practice ‘shooter lock down drills’. Might as well call them what they are, ‘Blood sacrifice to the NRA drills’. Sounds like they amount to little more than getting the kids used to ‘taking one for the team’s training.

  146. 146
    J R in WV says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:

    SpaceX flies out of Cape Canaveral, right?

    ETA: gotta get ready for work, no time to Google, so I ask the hive mind.

    This early AM they flew out of Vanderburg, probably because of tight orbital requirements. They had what they called “an instantaneous launch window,” which sounds very tight to me.

  147. 147
    sigyn says:

    @Mnemosyne: “Actually, in a just world, she would be working as a public school custodian cleaning up vomit and shit.”

    Uhh, Mnemosyne? I like my job. It’s a well-paying union job; there’s a lot more to it than just cleaning up “vomit and shit”, and teachers & administration see me as a valuable member of support staff. For example, asshole comments like yours are few and far between.

  148. 148
    J R in WV says:

    @sigyn:

    And thank you for your work, good schools would be impossible without you.

Comments are closed.