The Countertop Inspections Have Begun

So, let’s see. Either the students from Parkland are too young to have an opinion (says a junior studying journalism at a conservative college). Here’s the best answer I found to that charge:


Or, they are incapable of organizing a rally without help from groups funded by George Soros (that pearl of wisdom was from Jack Kingston on CNN).
Or, one of their fathers is a retired FBI agent and therefore can’t be trusted.
Or, and I’m not linking to this one, David Brooks thinks they need to show more respect to gun owners.
We’ll see how these kids handle this bullshit, but given this amazing account from a reporter who actually talked with them, I think they’ll handle it pretty well, all things considered, and I think March 24th will be an interesting day.

295 replies
  1. 1
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷 says:

    Who do these people think they are, harassing fucking teenagers who were involved in a recent mass shooting where they could have died?

    Oh and David Brooks? Fuck you and fuck all the gun nuts. They don’t deserve anyone’s respect because they are fundamentally cowards who need to carry their guns everywhere out of fear. Fuck their feelings.

  2. 2
    Edmund dantes says:

    The Nicole tweet is savage.

  3. 3
    dmsilev says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷: Hell, there were (and still are) people harassing the parents of Sandy Hook victims, claiming that that shooting never actually happened and it was (insert conspiracy theory here).

  4. 4
    frosty says:

    “Don’t mourn, organize.” These kids jumped right on it. Incredible and inspiring.

  5. 5
    Gretchen says:

    The thing that amazes me is that Jack Kingston and others are insisting that these kids must be getting paid by George Soros to organize, otherwise why would they do it? He doesn’t think that getting shot at and not wanting to get shot at again is a motivating factor – it must be money.

  6. 6
    Droppy says:

    That David Brooks column put me over the edge- the point of it being that we need to be nice to gun nuts and try to understand them and see things from their point of view instead of being so mean. They have owned this issue completely for 40+ years and they have had every chance to respond to reasoned arguments and to engage in civil discourse and they have instead created a world of gun-worshiping violence. They can all die in a fire, and David Brooks can sit in his corner and wring his hands at our incivility, and I’ll get over that.

  7. 7
    frosty says:

    @dmsilev: Friends of mine posted conspiracy shit about Las Vegas on FB. My cousin’s daughter was shot in the head there and will be working on recovery for years. I have no use for these fucking liars.

  8. 8
    Kay says:

    I wonder if conservatives are scared to regulate guns because if they do and school shootings go down or stop everyone will know we could have acted sooner.

    That will be analyzed. If these kids succeed and get some gun regulation there will be a before and there will be an after, and conclusions will be drawn.

    It must be fucking terrifying to contemplate, being on the wrong side of that result because whether it’s polite to mention or not people will think of the 1st graders in Newtown and all the others, and it’s too late for them.

    Thye bet the farm on the guess or belief or hope that the problem wasn’t guns. If gun regulation solves all or part of the problem they bet wrong, with real consequences for real kids.

    That would scare the hell out of me were I one of them.

  9. 9
    Brachiator says:

    The same people that said 13 and 14 year olds were perfectly mature enough to date Roy Moore are now saying 17 and 18 year olds are too immature to have opinions on gun control.

    Oh, Snap!!

    Also, 17 and 18 year olds are not too young to be killed by gun nuts, but are too young to try to save themselves from gun nuts.

    Or, and I’m not linking to this one, David Brooks thinks they need to show more respect to gun owners.

    Lots of variations of kids need to shut up and respect their elders shit popping up.

  10. 10
    Svensker says:

    @Kay:

    You give them way too much credit. They don’t worry about it at all. They KNOW guns keep everyone safer. Libtards just trying to get everyone killed while we take over the planet with our Commie PC powers.

  11. 11

    I would guess none of these kids has the faintest idea who David Brooks is, which is kind of hilarious. It’s also one of the reasons they’re free to speak.

    But I hope someone is looking out for them. They’re going to get threats as well as insults.

  12. 12
    Kay says:

    @Brachiator:

    It’s strange because one of their central arguments is they are only doing this because adults refused to act. One of the main “charges” they are leveling is exactly that- that the adults were supposed to pick up this duty and the adults failed.

    They led with that. It’s central to their concept.

  13. 13
    Jeffro says:

    Oh, did Brooksie say something? ;)

    j/k j/k and might I add David Brooks can absolutely, positively go fuck himself.

  14. 14
    foucault swing voter mistermix says:


    This is the best explanation I’ve seen about why Kingston immediately accuses these kids of being astroturfed.

  15. 15
    dmsilev says:

    @Droppy: I’m guessing that David Brooks didn’t also argue that gun fanatics should likewise be respectful of and listen to the arguments from those people who’d like to see a bit of a reduction in the prevalence of their fetish-objects?

  16. 16
    Aimai says:

    @Brachiator: maybe they are just taking megan mcardles advice and swarming the shooters—I mean congress—with their bodies—I mean future votes.

  17. 17
    donnah says:

    Republicans have no shame, nor can they ever again claim the moral high ground. They are not just a basket of deplorables, they are a multitude. They reek of desperation and they are going to face a rebellion the likes of which they have not seen before.

    Don’t fuck with teenagers. They will tear your faces off.

  18. 18
    Brachiator says:

    @Kay:

    It’s strange because one of their central arguments is they are only doing this because adults refused to act. One of the main “charges” they are leveling is exactly that- that the adults were supposed to pick up this duty and the adults failed.

    Some adults are stupid, particularly when their failures are thrown back in their faces.

  19. 19
    Timurid says:

    @foucault swing voter mistermix:

    It’s always projection with these people…

  20. 20
    Kay says:

    @Svensker:

    Oh, I don’t know. A kind of “sunk cost fallacy” drives a lot of human behavior in my opinion. They can’t find out they were wrong because the COST of that error would be too much to bear, so they dig in, and scream louder, and exhibit crazy fucking behavior like this- attacking high school kids.

    Connecticut passed some tough state laws after Newtown. There will be statistics- there will be a before and an after.

    Decisions have consequences. Sometimes it’s too scary to find out.

  21. 21
    GregB says:

    The degeneracy of the political right is quickening.

    Many have become so warped that a child having a parent in the FBI is an indicator of moral unfitness.

  22. 22
    Joeg says:

    @Droppy: hell yes!!!

  23. 23
    Kay says:

    @Svensker:

    They shouldn’t worry.

    Nothing Can Be Done has some companions- if we do something and it works they can always fall back on No One Could Have Predicted and the ever-popular Look Forward, Not Back.

    Our national mottoes.

  24. 24
    Droppy says:

    @dmsilev: Oh, sure, in the true spirit of Holy Bothsiderism Brooks said that we all need to listen (you know really listen) to each other. That assumes that 1) there is some moral equivalence between the position that children and other humans ought to have the right not to be shot and the position that gun nuts ought to have the right to have as many guns and suffer no inconvenient regulations; and 2) There has been something like equilibrium in this debate, that the two sides have both made sacrifices and have given up something and that there is some precious balance at work here, when in fact the right-wing/Mad Max version of gun ownership has been allowed to ride roughshod over our culture for 40 years because our congressmen are craven, heartless, selfish cowards.

  25. 25
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    Someone was pointing out over the weekend that most of the dystopian YA novels like the Hunger Games series have this exact theme: teens have to save themselves from the fucked-up world their elders created. Kids today are primed to re-create that story, and I hope they succeed.

  26. 26
    eric says:

    They are old enough to own automatic weapons and ammo, but not old enough to talk about them.

    ETA: 2nd Amendment >> 1st Amendment

  27. 27
    Tony P. says:

    Chris Matthews (aka Tweetie) made a good point for once: the people who blame the massacre on the shooter’s “mental health” instead of his AR-15 will soon be telling us he’s sane enough to be executed.

    Hillary was wrong. These people are despicable, not “deplorable”.

    –TP

  28. 28
    Kay says:

    What about a trial period? We put in some gun regs with an automatic expiration date, long enough for statisticians and data gatherers and parsers to do their stuff. We see what happens.

    If the kids are right and gun deaths go down we have THAT debate, the debate about the cost. They could still lose! There could be a political conclusion that the gun is worth the cost, but we’d know what we’re paying. Transparent. Cost/benefit.

  29. 29
    GregB says:

    I found this gun death analysis on CBS.

    From what I see, the only blue state in the top 20 is New Mexico.

    When is someone going to point out that issue after issue, the political right has been delivering their constituents to the grave at the expense of big businesses like guns, oil, coal, healthcare, tobacco etc.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-by-gun-top-20-states-with-highest-rates/21/

  30. 30
    The Golux says:

    Every time a Republican utters “thoughts and prayers” or “it’s too soon to talk about gun control”, what they are really saying is “fuck you”. This should become a universal meme, so that people will immediately regard those phrases as insults.

  31. 31
    LAO says:

    Ubiquitous as he is goofy, Jack Kingston disparaged Parkland student activists and claims that something CALLED an “assault rifle” isn’t an assault rifle. Honestly, if @CNN wanted to make conservatives look more stupid, they’d have to hire Sean Hannity. pic.twitter.com/jLdOgLGffZ— Mrs. Betty Bowers (@BettyBowers) February 20, 2018

  32. 32
    Kay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    That’s a great point. Boy, they latched onto those stories in a big way. I loved them at that age but I don’t remember them as being so widely popular.

    Isn’t “the missing adult” such a huge part of children’s lit? That’s why they have so many orphans. It’s an odd world populated almost exclusively by orphans :)

  33. 33
    SFAW says:

    @eric:

    They are old enough to own automatic weapons and ammo, but not old enough to talk about them.

    They aren’t allowed to talk about them because they can’t say what makes an AR-15 an “assault rifle.” They probably also do not know the difference between a “clipping” “clip” and a “newspaper” “magazine.”

    Which is where the tweeter replies were heading, around three in, for that first link posted.

    I need to review the Second Amendment, because I don’t recall it saying that the RKBA shall not be infringed for murderous fucking morons

  34. 34
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @SFAW: I never understood this argument – if you don’t know the difference between a clip and a magazine you’re not entitled to have an opinion on whether or not a weapon designed to kill people en masse is a bad idea?

  35. 35
    SFAW says:

    @SFAW:

    “clipping” should have been “clipping” The attempted half-witticism works better that way.

    FYWP.

  36. 36
    Eural Joiner says:

    When is someone going to point out that issue after issue, the political right has been delivering their constituents to the grave at the expense of big businesses like guns, oil, coal, healthcare, tobacco etc.

    I point that out all the time – and my conservative/GOP friends laugh in my face and start hee-hawing about “libtard lies” and “fake news.”

    You can lead a horse to water yada yada yada

  37. 37
    Spanky says:

    @Kay: Harry Potter

  38. 38
    Kay says:

    @SFAW:

    No one else does this except gun people. No one else insists there may be no discussion unless you get their stupid hobbyist terms exactly right.

    This is so clearly a dodge you would laugh if a 5 year old tried it. “Good try, Timmy! Now let’s talk about YOUR PROBLEM, shall we?”

  39. 39
    eric says:

    This is what we are dealing with…..no limits, none: any and all weapons are “Arms” as understood in the Second Amendment. Imaginary freedom fighters over tyranny.

  40. 40
    SFAW says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    It’s just a way for a bad-faith arguer to attempt to de-legitimize his opponent(s). Of course, far be it from me to suggest that wingnuts are bad-faith arguers.

    Because her e-mails.

  41. 41
    Jeffro says:

    @foucault swing voter mistermix: Exactly. In their world, no one springs into action unless they’re told to do so by their betters. Classic authoritarian mindset.

  42. 42
    Ksmiami says:

    @donnah: I want the gop-nra buried

  43. 43
    Hoodie says:

    The thing that’s striking about the critics of these kids is the utter cynicism, they assume their kids are as corrupt or inept as they are. It shows a real contempt for the future, that things can never change. What a sad state of affairs, we can’t keep them safe and shit all over their attempts to help themselves because we can’t admit our failures. Reminds me of the Vietnam era.

  44. 44
    Kay says:

    @Spanky:

    I read the first Harry Potter because my kids were reading them but I am ashamed to admit I remember almost nothing about it.

    It was heavy. Quite heavy to hold up :)

  45. 45
    WaterGirl says:

    From the March for Our Lives link:

    Mission Statement

    Not one more. We cannot allow one more child to be shot at school. We cannot allow one more teacher to make a choice to jump in front of a firing assault rifle to save the lives of students. We cannot allow one more family to wait for a call or text that never comes. Our schools are unsafe. Our children and teachers are dying. We must make it our top priority to save these lives.

    March For Our Lives is created by, inspired by, and led by students across the country who will no longer risk their lives waiting for someone else to take action to stop the epidemic of mass school shootings that has become all too familiar. In the tragic wake of the seventeen lives brutally cut short in Florida, politicians are telling us that now is not the time to talk about guns. March For Our Lives believes the time is now.

    On March 24, the kids and families of March For Our Lives will take to the streets of Washington, DC to demand that their lives and safety become a priority. The collective voices of the March For Our Lives movement will be heard.

    School safety is not a political issue. There cannot be two sides to doing everything in our power to ensure the lives and futures of children who are at risk of dying when they should be learning, playing, and growing. The mission and focus of March For Our Lives is to demand that a comprehensive and effective bill be immediately brought before Congress to address these gun issues. No special interest group, no political agenda is more critical than timely passage of legislation to effectively address the gun violence issues that are rampant in our country.

    Every kid in this country now goes to school wondering if this day might be their last. We live in fear.

    It doesn’t have to be this way. Change is coming. And it starts now, inspired by and led by the kids who are our hope for the future. Their young voices will be heard.

    Stand with us on March 24. Refuse to allow one more needless death.

  46. 46
    Jeffro says:

    Btw countertop inspections aren’t the ONLY thing that’s just begun, sheeple! Rep Nunes is “Coming For Comey” (um…that’s just what the headline says over at Fox News dot com…I report, you throw up). I think they mean like he’s coming to GET Comey, yeah, that’s it.

    Go Nunes! Begin that ‘second phase’ of your investigation into the ‘Dodgy Dossier’!! Also, tick tock, motherfucker…obstruction’s obstruction, no matter who does it.

  47. 47
    Kay says:

    @Spanky:

    It’s true in movies too. I sort of love that. “Where are all the adults who are supposed to be helping these plucky kids?!” Oh. Right. The Fire.

  48. 48
    Ksmiami says:

    @Eural Joiner: I guess I don’t really care about discussing or compromising with these Neanderthals- we just need to beat them

  49. 49
    Nicole says:

    I love that tweet. Smart woman. I like the name, too! (No, it’s not me. I wish I were that clever on Twitter).

    Scroll down on the twitter page, and the original poster is, right away, accused of being a bot. Oh my God, I just… I can’t even anymore…

  50. 50
    chopper says:

    the responses to silver’s tweet of course immediately boil down to some schmuck derailing the whole discussion into the standard ‘what’s an assault rifle?’ shtick. silver might as well have made the ultimate mistake and used the word ‘clip’.

  51. 51
    MrSnrub says:

    The tree of the Second Amendment must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of children

  52. 52
    sherparick says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷: They are the scum of the earth, that is what they are. Unfortunately, there are two sides in this country, and one is side of destruction, fueled by avarice and resentment.

  53. 53
    gvg says:

    They know they are guilty of complicity with murder Kay. they passed laws to prevent CDC from collecting gun statistics. In Florida they passed a law to prevent doctors from asking if there was a gun in the house. Foster family paperwork changed while I was a foster parent to prevent them from asking about guns in the background checks. guilty people know they need to cover things up. The statistics must be very bad.
    You know the saying “it’s not the crime, it’s the coverup”? Well I’d like to put some lobbyists and legislators in jail for the cover ups they have done on this.

  54. 54
    Kay says:

    @Jeffro:

    I was at the DMV and they had the Ohio News Network on – it’s insanely Right wing. Anyway, the day after the last indictments this was the crawl “…..indictments, blah blah…..questions remain about Comey and Clinton”

    I guffawed. They’re a joke.

  55. 55
    WaterGirl says:

    @Kay: Kay, what you described would be an awful hell to live in. But I know that if you feared you had indirectly contributed to school deaths, you would be front and center trying to change things so not another child was lost. I would, too.

    And so would millions of people who are not obsessed to the point where they think their right have a gun is more important than the right of children to go to school without the very real fear of being massacred.

    IF the people you described care more about protecting themselves than facing the truth of what they’ve created, they are truly vile and evil creatures.

  56. 56
    Kay says:

    @gvg:

    We should volunteer to take the downside risk of our experiment. If the experiment fails they can all us “libtards” – I volunteer – they can call ME that if they want. I don’t care so it’s not much of a downside, but it’s all I got.

  57. 57
    chopper says:

    @SFAW:

    yeah, what makes a rifle patterned after the M-16 an ‘assault rifle’. cause it’s not like we don’t know what the M-16 was fucking designed for. obviously the us army had it designed and made for…hunting! and home defense!

  58. 58
    donnah says:

    @Ksmiami:

    Me, too!

  59. 59
    SFAW says:

    @Kay:

    No one else does this except gun people. No one else insists there may be no discussion unless you get their stupid hobbyist terms exactly right.

    Possible response to wingnuts when they start on that shit:

    “That’s interesting. Does a bullet from a clip not kill you, but one from a magazine does? Or is it vice versa? And how does the bullet know whether it’s in one or the other? And If the shooter mistakenly calls a ‘clip’ a ‘magazine’ — or vice versa — does the weapon stop shooting? To help you answer that thorny question, I have an idea: How about if I call the modular bullet-holder in this Steyr MP9 (which I’ll incorrectly call an ‘assault rifle’) by the wrong term, and then aim it at you and pull the trigger — will you be safe because I used the wrong term?”

    I don’t know what just came over me. I really need to try to understand them better.

    Fucking assholes, all of them. Hey, I guess I DO understand them better!

  60. 60
    Jeffro says:

    @Kay: I love asking RWNJs about that…”so our current president* is not enforcing Congressionally-approved sanctions against Russia, while official after official and agency after agency continue to stress that we. were. attacked. by Russia last year…and you want to talk about/investigate/crucify Hillary Clinton??”

  61. 61
    Eural Joiner says:

    @kismiami I’m right there with you

  62. 62
    Kay says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I don’t know- I think it’s a HUMAN failing, this doubling down. I think we saw some of it with Iraq. Same. Once there were 600k dead it HAD to be defended, because there were 600k dead.

    It SHOULD be that the bigger the risk the less chance there is of this kind of sunk cost fallacy behavior kicking in but that isn’t how it works. It REALLY comes into play when the stakes are high. ONLY comes into play when the stakes are high because if the stakes are low it’s easy to back off your position. It’s horrible I know but maybe that’s the part we can’t figure out. We’re expecting them to say “enough!” but each shooting makes it harder to risk finding out they were wrong because some mistakes can’t be undone.

  63. 63
    Brachiator says:

    @Aimai:

    maybe they are just taking megan mcardles advice and swarming the shooters—I mean congress—with their bodies—I mean future votes.

    Ha! I can’t read Megan or take her seriously at all, but I am mildly curious if she has walked back any of her nonsense.

  64. 64
    WaterGirl says:

    @donnah:

    Don’t fuck with teenagers. They will tear your faces off.

    Are you speaking from the perspective of someone who has a teenager or was one?

  65. 65
    scav says:

    GOP/NRA: Children should be slain and not heard.

  66. 66
    cmorenc says:

    @frosty:

    @dmsilev: Friends of mine posted conspiracy shit about Las Vegas on FB. My cousin’s daughter was shot in the head there and will be working on recovery for years. I have no use for these fucking liars.

    There’s a bit of a contradiction here:
    “friends of mine posted conspiracy shit…”
    and
    “I have no use for those fucking liars”.

    So are these now your ex-friends (whom you have no further use for?) Not being nasty with you here, I understand the dilemma. I have a nephew who is otherwise a stellar character who would literally go a hundred miles out of his way to help friends and family with an arduous task at the drop of a hat if asked, who is (or at least was during the election) an avid Trump supporter. The contradiction makes my head spin. It’s lots easier to denounce and make a total break from folks who are complete assholes than it is someone who in most of their everyday interaction with you and others is a really great person, so long as you don’t talk about politics or current events.

  67. 67
    different-church-lady says:

    Too young to have an opinion, but old enough to be killed.

    Yes, that’s the world they want us to live in.

  68. 68
    chopper says:

    @scav:

    yee-ouch.

  69. 69

    @Ksmiami: Can we also bury bipartisanship?.

  70. 70
    Roger Moore says:

    @Gretchen:

    He doesn’t think that getting shot at and not wanting to get shot at again is a motivating factor – it must be money.

    It’s textbook. If you can’t argue with the message, try to discredit the messenger. They really don’t want to argue based on whether restricting access to assault rifles will help stop this kind of massacre, so they’re left trying to discredit anyone they disagree with.

  71. 71
  72. 72
    SFAW says:

    @scav:

    GOP/NRA: Children should be slain and not heard.

    Wow.

  73. 73
    Gretchen says:

    I saw a speculation about sunk cost fallacy on Twitter (Heidi Moore) that journalists are resisting the whole Russia story being that significant because of all their hot takes that Hillary Clinton lost because she was a bad candidate. If she lost because of this vast conspiracy that was right under their noses (and there was plenty of evidence long before the election if they’d looked for it) while they went haring after endless email stories, maybe they’re all proven to be bad at their jobs.

  74. 74
    Gretchen says:

    I made the mistake of arguing on Facebook with a gun nut. I know, dumb. I was trying to make the liberal distinction that your hunting guns are fine, lets get rid of weapons of war. His response was a lot of har, har, you don’t know what caliber an AR15 is. Har har, you don’t know what an assault rifle is. They seem to think that will make us back down and say “You’re right. I don’t know enough about this to have an opinion.” My actual response is “Fine, the distinctions are to hard to make. Let’s be Australia and confiscate them all and you can find a hobby. Maybe take up knitting with Hillary.”

  75. 75
    trollhattan says:

    @Kay:
    Clearly, the only answer is preventing the CDC and FBI from studying the correlation between gun ownership and accessibility, and the rate of gun deaths and crime.

  76. 76
    Kay says:

    I apologize for off-topic but this is a tragic mistake that profoundly discredits these people:

    @OurRevolution just endorsed Dennis Kucinich for #OHGov.

    They know not what they do.

  77. 77
    TenguPhule says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷:

    Who do these people think they are, harassing fucking teenagers who were involved in a recent mass shooting where they could have died?

    They think they’re the only people in America who get to decide things.

    I predicted this was coming last week. Because our enemies are fucking evil assholes.

  78. 78
    trollhattan says:

    @chopper:
    And jamming. :-)

  79. 79
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    They know not what they do.

    They know exactly what they’re doing.

    The purity is strong within them.

  80. 80
    Gretchen says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Not sure if you saw my response about the inlaw visit the other day. It was late in the thread. It went fine. They were all very nice. I’m sure his parents were as nervous as I was. They toned down the spice of the biryani about 3/4 according to fiance, and daughter urged me to take plenty of yogurt sauce and avoid the very-spicy pork dish, so the meal was good. I was worried about it being too spicy and sending back a half-full plate, but it was fine. I’m glad that’s done and next time will be more relaxed.

  81. 81
    Betty Cracker says:

  82. 82
    Immanentize says:

    @Kay: Oh, they may know exactly what they do….
    This reminds me of Lenora Fulani for President movement and all the people who were permanently discredited in that effort. I say, you go boys and girls of OurRevolution! Help us make sure Bernie never runs again.

  83. 83
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    What about a trial period? We put in some gun regs with an automatic expiration date, long enough for statisticians and data gatherers and parsers to do their stuff. We see what happens.

    We had one, the first Assault rifle ban.

    It worked.

    That’s why Republicans will fight to the death to stop another one.

  84. 84
    Jeffro says:

    File this one under “useful left-leaning idiots”: Lying To Investigators Shouldn’t Be A Crime

    …According to White, the only reason prosecutors ever really want to interview targets is to trap them into a story and catch them in a lie. If they’re after you, you can’t talk your way out of trouble. Sure, you might have information that would exonerate you, but your lawyer can instead convey it informally to the investigators, without any risk.

    White is right, but he doesn’t go far enough. Prosecutors want to catch you in a lie because, when they can’t prove an underlying crime, it’s often easy to prove that you lied to them. That’s where the problem arises. I’ve been telling my astonished law students for decades that except in certain well-defined circumstances, lying to investigators shouldn’t be a crime. And it shouldn’t. Period.

    Part of the reason for my position involves symmetry. As long as government investigators are allowed to deceive you, you should be allowed to deceive government investigators. And deceive you they may — rather willy-nilly. If a suspect confesses after police falsely tell him that his fingerprints were found at the crime scene, fine. If a suspect confesses after police falsely tell him that they have satellite images and DNA evidence linking him to the crime, fine. My view is that suspects should have the same freedom. If you can throw the police off the scent by telling them you weren’t there … fine. 1

    This last point is important. White argues that investigators rarely talk to suspects without strong evidence of their guilt. Again, you’re not likely to be able to talk them out of pursuing you. So if your lie changes the course of the investigation, the case must not have been that strong to begin with. Another reason not to criminalize the lie.

    If, on the other hand, your lie doesn’t change the course of the investigation — if they still come after you — then the case was very strong from the beginning. And if the case is so strong that investigators still want to chase you after your lie, then your lie had no effect. So let’s force them to come after you for the crime they’re investigating, not for trying (and failing) to deceive them.

    Sorry, but no. Telling the truth to investigators, or in court, etc, is all part of having a functioning rule of law. There have to be penalties for outright lies told to the people charged with pursuing justice, whether it’s the president* or a city drug dealer. (Easily avoidable by not committing crimes that need covering up, btw.) The author is saying if they can’t successfully prosecute you despite all the lies you threw up to derail the investigation, they must not have had a great case, eh? THAT’s the kind of society we want? No no no.

    I told my RWNJ brother, who sent me the link, this is just more BS “prepping the battlefield” for Trumpov’s eventually being subpoenaed and indicted. No response to that, so point = Jeffro.

  85. 85
    Jeffro says:

    @Betty Cracker: There’s not enough aloe in the world to heal that burn…

  86. 86

    @Kay: they are who we mocked them for being.

  87. 87
    cain says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Yeah I posted that yesterday. As I was saying, these kids are going to get attacked and given the same treatment that Sandyhook parents got. Their backgrounds will be gone over, grades, whatever. They will look to destroy these people’s lives.

    It was awesome that Chelsea stepped up there. Having her and Hillary step up and give them a target instead of those kids is awesome.

  88. 88
    RobNYNY says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Exactly. If you don’t use exactly the right vocabulary, you are excluded from the discussion. The NRA has been following that path for years.

  89. 89
    condorcet runner-up says:

    How depraved do you have to be when your first response to a school shooting is to go out and attack the kids speaking out? Who are these people? “Honey, I’ll be right there … I have to find some dirt on these damned kids first and spread it on twitter. What? No. But … But … They are saying bad things about Mr. LaPierre!”

  90. 90
    Roger Moore says:

    @Droppy:

    Oh, sure, in the true spirit of Holy Bothsiderism Brooks said that we all need to listen (you know really listen) to each other.

    Strange, though, how he only ever admonishes liberals for failing to listen to conservatives and never the other way around. There’s never, say, an argument that states with strong gun laws have succeeded in reducing their death rate from firearms, and the states with weaker laws need to listen to what the strong gun law states are saying.

  91. 91

    @Gretchen: I did see it. Your first visit sounds far better than my disastrous first meeting with husband kitteh’s extended family. I was jetlagged and cranky. I just wanted to sleep while plates of food were being shoved my way and I was introduced to a dozen or more of MIL’s extended family.

  92. 92
    TenguPhule says:

    @scav:

    GOP/NRA: Children should be slain and not heard.

    I think you win the thread.

  93. 93
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @SFAW:

    I really need to try to understand them better.

    Yeah. And show a little respect!

    / D. Brooks

  94. 94
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    They’re trying to destroy Democrats as an opposition force to the Republicans so, sadly, they know exactly what they’re doing.

  95. 95
    different-church-lady says:

    @condorcet runner-up: There is no blow too low for a culture warrior.

  96. 96
    SFAW says:

    @RobNYNY:

    The NRA has been following that path for years.

    It’s the deathstick equivalent of “teach the controversy, not the science.”

  97. 97
    different-church-lady says:

    @Mnemosyne: “I reject your ineptitude and substitute my own!”

  98. 98
    rp says:

    Another argument that drives me insane is “a semi-automatic AR-15 is no different from any other rifle! It’s just cosmetics!” One possible response to that is “res ipsa loquitor. If it’s just like other rifles, why is it so popular? If there’s no difference, why would you care if it’s banned?”

  99. 99
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    Here’s a thought -how about we start inspecting the countertops of the pundits, to determine what factors exist in their life experience that allow readers to assign special weight to their punditry? Brooks was a cop beat reporter for about 90 seconds after graduation before getting picked up at National Review. Chait has nothing but punditry in his bio. Ezra Klein the same.

    Is there ANYTHING that any of these assholes have done or managed in life that makes them worthy commenters on public policy?

    What about Chuck Todd? Blitzer? John King?

  100. 100
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Kay:

    They know not what they do.

    You sure about that, Kay?

  101. 101
    TenguPhule says:

    @rp:

    a semi-automatic AR-15 is no different from any other rifle! It’s just cosmetics!

    Except that’s bullshit. Ar-15s and their counterparts are designed for hunting people.

    Hunting bolt action rifles do not need 16 shots, because if you miss the first or second shot, having more bullets isn’t going to help. It means you need to learn to be a better shot.

  102. 102
    rp says:

    There was a stupid McArdle article from a few years ago arguing that the assault weapons ban was pointless because it focused on cosmetic issues, e.g., banning pistol grip shotguns by not regular grip ones. But that’s classic question begging. *Is* there a difference between the two? Is one grip more popular among police and soldiers?

  103. 103
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Oh, good for Chelsea! 💕❤️

  104. 104
    SFAW says:

    @Jeffro:

    No response to that, so point = Jeffro.

    Next time, add one of Yarrow’s “Tick, tock, motherfucker”s and see if it elicits a response.

    [And, vis-a-vis Yarrow: last night people were asking about him (her?), did anyone ever attempt contact? If so, what’s the word?]

  105. 105
    TenguPhule says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Is there ANYTHING that any of these assholes have done or managed in life that makes them worthy commenters on public policy?

    No. SATSQ.

    They are the little Trumps of the media. Failures who keep getting promoted upwards.

  106. 106

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Great idea, someone should compile their bios and see what is it that makes them so special that we have to listen to what they say on important issues that affect all of us.

  107. 107
    Wapiti says:

    @rp: Yup. Wanting to own a rifle styled to look like an assault-rifle strongly suggests to me that the purchaser fantasizes about killing people at some level.

  108. 108
    Hungry Joe says:

    After Sandy Hook and Las Vegas I thought, “Nothing will happen. They’ll wait it out.” But my reaction to Florida was, “This might be it. The tipping point.” It’s so odd — tens millions of others obviously feel the same way. Yet I can’t figure out how this time was different.

    Of course, what sends something to a “tipping point” isn’t anything different — it’s just the last in a series. But why is the the tipping point NOW? Can we tease out a reason, or is the answer something like, “Because enough was finally enough”? But that raises (not “begs”!) the question, “Why was Sandy Hook/Las Vegas/Whatever not ‘enough’ “?

  109. 109
    Leto says:

    @donnah:

    they are going to face a rebellion the likes of which they have not seen before.

    My wife and I have discussed this specifically. “Responsible” gun owners have had 40+ years to help craft ANY type of legislation/regulation to ensure that they get to have their 2d Amendment fetish, within reason. Instead, they went all in on the “GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ EVERYWHERE!!!” route and it’s going to blow up in their faces. The pendulum is going to swing hard in the other direction and that’s going to be that. They had a choice in helping to keep our communities/families/loved ones safe and they said, “Nah, fuck it. I love my gun more than you”.

  110. 110
    rp says:

    @TenguPhule: Agree completely. But my point is that even before you get into the actual differences, you can point out that gun humpers can’t simultaneously argue that AR-15s aren’t uniquely dangerous because they’re no different from bolt action hunting rifles AND that banning AR-15s is the worst thing ever. Either they’re different or they’re not.

  111. 111
    bluefish says:

    These young people are astonishing.

  112. 112
    Brachiator says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷:

    Bad news. Americans are being idiots like usual and think the Tax Scam is a good thing.

    That one was easy to see coming. This actually gives Democrats some room to come up with better alternatives.

    As with the gun debate, the Republicans cannot simply shut down debate or deflect it toward their favored talking points.

  113. 113
    different-church-lady says:

    @rp: My reply would be, “Fuck you, ban them all then.”

  114. 114
    eric says:

    @rp: as i noted above, their real argument is that ALL weapons should be allowed. All. They need the “Arms” to battle a tyrannical government. But, if they argue that then normal people will be all “WTF;” so, instead, they deflect with the technical intricacies of gun terminology. Sophistry.

  115. 115
    les says:

    @Brachiator:

    I can’t read Megan or take her seriously at all, but I am mildly curious if she has walked back any of her nonsense.

    McMeeegan isn’t capable of walking back obvious math errors. If she walked back nonsense she’d have to shred her life.

  116. 116
    Humdog says:

    @Betty Cracker: what a class act! Brings a tear to my eyes comparing what we could have had to what we got!

  117. 117
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Droppy: Actually, there is this small, savage part of me that really wants to see David Brooks get a gun stuck in his face someday. There. I said it.

    I think of all the RW pundits I hate, he’s the one I hate most. because of his faux-reasonable schtick that gets ordinarily nice, tote-bagging liberals to nod along and say,”he has a point”.

    Yeah, he does. On top of his head.

  118. 118
    trollhattan says:

    @rp: @TenguPhule:
    The Las Vegas massacre could not have occurred without that roomful of AR15 clones, the machine gun conversions and the tracer ammo.

    Anybody who says we “need” any of these things needs to move to Somalia and live out their fantasies by trying to pirate tankers from inflatable rafts.

  119. 119
    trollhattan says:

    @les:
    Even as she claims newfound wisdom from turning 45. Sometimes a number is just a number, McMegan.

  120. 120
    trollhattan says:

    @Miss Bianca:
    Only if it’s a Rand Paulish assault by a well-heeled neighbor. Otherwise Brooksie will dish it off to bad manners inculcated by bad parenting due to video games and lack of adequate bootstrapping. i.e., Jealous non-strivers.

  121. 121
    Kay says:

    @Hungry Joe:

    But maybe we look at it wrong because it’s driven by media frames of events and not how people are.

    We’re used to that over-determination, right? “Such and such LOST because this or that discrete event!” – all chopped up into 3 minute segments, where instead people have a slower tempo- they ADD. Maybe it isn’t “this is fine, this is also fine, WAIT just a goshdarned MINUTE, THIS is not fine!” but instead a sort of accumulation of sorrow that just gets too heavy to carry.

    We’ve seen SO MANY. The first reports. The parents waiting for news. The kids streaming from the buildings. The photos. The stories of the kids- “she was a swimmer. he loved his little brother”. The candles and the memorial ceremony. The politician speech that follows. Maybe it just was wearing on them and they want a repreive. It’s so unrelentlingly sad and it’s years of this.

  122. 122
    Miss Bianca says:

    @The Golux:

    Every time a Republican utters “thoughts and prayers” or “it’s too soon to talk about gun control”, what they are really saying is “fuck you”. This should become a universal meme, so that people will immediately regard those phrases as insults.

    I wil happily take up that call to metaphorical arms, by doing my best to spread that meme abroad.

  123. 123
    Adria McDowell says:

    @Gretchen: Remember, any movement that involves liberals and liberal ideas is automagically funded by Soros.

    Any right wing movement funded by the Koch brothers is “grassroots.”

    OT: Black Panther was great. Wakanda forever, indeed.

  124. 124
    glory b says:

    @Kay: That’s because children with 2 caring watchful parents don’t get to go on novel-worthy adventures.

    Also, if they’re not orphans, they are usually motherless, because mothers are the ones most likely to throw water on your good times.

    I remember seeing a you tube video of a little girl playing with a dead squirrel. Her father video tapes and eventually you hear a woman saying, “Oh my God, what is she playing with. What are you thinking about?!?!?”

    It’s hilarious.

  125. 125
    trollhattan says:

    Darn high school kids, what do they know?

    A reserves trainee who died helping other students escape a Florida school shooting has been posthumously accepted to a prestigious US military school.

    Peter Wang, 15, who was one of 17 killed in the 14 February attack, was admitted to the class of 2025 at his dream school, West Point Academy. He was a member of the US Army Junior Reserve Officers’ Training Corps (JROTC), a school programme for potential US military officers.

    His funeral took place on Tuesday.

  126. 126
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Gretchen: “Confiscate ’em all and let God sort them out”.

    @Kay: They have *never* known what they do. Which is why I’ve taken to calling it “Your Revolution – not mine.”

  127. 127
    frosty says:

    @Kay: Star Wars too. YA heroes/heroines tend to be orphans because that gives them agency and room to move in an adult world.

    Try “Ashfall” for a good YA dystopia read. Set after the Yellowstone caldera goes up.

  128. 128
    cain says:

    @rp:

    Another argument that drives me insane is “a semi-automatic AR-15 is no different from any other rifle! It’s just cosmetics!” One possible response to that is “res ipsa loquitor. If it’s just like other rifles, why is it so popular? If there’s no difference, why would you care if it’s banned?”

    “there is no difference between white people and black people! It’s just cosmetics! Yet for some reason, it makes a difference, doesn’t it?” Assholes.

  129. 129
    trollhattan says:

    @Adria McDowell:
    What I find interesting is that Soros is rabidly anti-communist and inconveniently Jewish. I wonder which of those bothers Republicans more?

  130. 130

    @trollhattan: I just got a news alert that 3 of the kids that were killed(including Peter Wang) who were JROTC members were awarded medals by the Army.

  131. 131
    jl says:

    Seeing your friends shot dead, or hearing them being shot dead in another room or hallway, for no reason, provides them certain information and knowledge that demands some respect. No matter what their age. I heard a news report that some school districts are requiring regular monthly (one report I heard said weekly, but I have a hard time believing that) mass shooter drills to be held along with regular fire and other disaster drills. So, I think we will hear more opinions from these dang kids these days. Just because adults should not take everything these dang kids these days say seriously, that doesn’t mean everything they say should be dismissed on account of their age.

    If there is a demonstration put on by HS kids in my area over gun violence, I’ll probably attend if I can get off from work. I’ll keep myself posed on the planned demonstrations. The ruthless smears of the HS students who are speaking up is disgusting and has me riled up.

  132. 132
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @glory b:

    That’s because children with 2 caring watchful parents don’t get to go on novel-worthy adventures.

    Of course a solution to that problem could be the parents have been kidnapped and the kids are in a unique position to save them. That setup is great because it gives you a golden opportunity to create characters that are easy to empathize with and relate to; once you establish that, the stakes can also be high and keep the audience engaged.

  133. 133
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Kay: I actually think it’s the other way around–any gun regulation we can actually put in place will, like the 1990s assault-weapons ban, be somewhat inadequate, and statistics is hard. It’s going to be difficult to gauge the effectiveness, especially in the early years. The first time a mass shooting happens under the new regime (and there will be one), no matter what the details are, you’ll hear the calls that the ban is useless and the AR-15 Bushmaster needs to be re-legalized immediately.

    I think a lot of moderates don’t strongly endorse this stuff because they know this and are hedging their bets.

  134. 134
    Adria McDowell says:

    @scav: That would make a great counterpoint bumper sticker. Absolute savagery. 🔥

  135. 135
    Miss Bianca says:

    @trollhattan: Hey, I can live with that scenario.

  136. 136
    trollhattan says:

    @jl:
    My kid’s high school is conspicuously low on students today due to gun violence threats made over the weekend and despite police presence there today. I have a flood of emails and texts from the principal assuring everything will be fine. 3,000 miles away may as well be next door.

    It probably doesn’t help that the school has attracted the eye of the wingnutosphere the last couple weeks, so who knows who may be perpetrating the chaos.

  137. 137
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I think a lot of moderates don’t strongly endorse this stuff because they know this and are hedging their bets.

    Then they’re cowards who have blood on their hands.

  138. 138
    Mandalay says:

    Rubio had been blaming the media and Democrats for the slaughter, but now he has completely lost the plot and is tweeting quotes from the Bible on Twitter. One problem with that tactic is that it invites quotes from the Bible as responses, and it ain’t pretty…

    …Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves…
    …You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter…
    …You cannot serve both God and money…
    …you appear to be righteous on the outside, but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness

  139. 139
    frosty says:

    @cmorenc: No use for the lying conspiracy theorists. Less use for the friends linking to the lies than before. On probation, you might say.

  140. 140
    Adria McDowell says:

    @trollhattan: Both of them, obviously! ;-)

  141. 141
    NotMax says:

    Whatever the Latin is for “Shoot the messenger” is writ large on the right wing coat of arms.

  142. 142
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adria McDowell: Agreed, this is another motto I plan to steal.

  143. 143
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷: That’s The Incredibles, more or less. The movie needed some way to get the children into a situation where they could fight bad guys with their superpowers, even though they had loving parents with normal protective instincts (and superpowers). So Dad gets kidnapped, Mom goes to rescue him, the kids stow away, and Mom discovers them only when it’s too late to send them home (and Holly Hunter gives an unbelievable vocal performance as Mom trying to deal). It was a neat bit of plotting.

  144. 144
    jl says:

    @Mandalay: The contemptible hypocrite Rubio ever tweeted about the millions he’s received from the NRA? I think he is second or third on the list of Congresscreeps in NRA contributions.

  145. 145
    trollhattan says:

    @trollhattan:
    Think I buried the lede on the murdered child article. What’s that again about “immigrants ruining our country”?

    Peter, who had spent part of his childhood in his parents’ native China, had dreamed of attending the West Point military academy, friends say. Jesse Pan, a neighbour and longstanding friend of Peter’s family, told the BBC Chinese Service he had tried to support the teenager’s parents as they struggled to cope with the loss.

    “I was there with his parents, helping translating and finding a funeral home,” he said. “His parents fainted as soon as they saw his body. He had got multiple shots in front… So horrible.”

  146. 146
    a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio) says:

    One would think none of these angry youths had taken speech and debate classes, or belonged to the debate team or the drama club, or given a class presentation in an AP History or English class, gotten a scouting badge in public speaking, or organized extracurricular activities of any kind. Oh, and none of them have held public-facing jobs part-time or over the summers.

    And of course, the Selfie Kids would have no clue about rehearsing anything in a mirror. Or sending a video to a friend asking for feedback.

    No, they must have ben spoonfed talking points because Kids These Are Completely Helpless.

  147. 147
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Mandalay: Dear Marco: Ever heard that bit about the Devil quoting scripture for his own purposes?

  148. 148
    Leto says:

    @eric: They are old enough to own firearms/ammo, but not responsible enough to consume alcohol.

    Catching up on this thread, but as usual Kay is spitting hot fire/truth.

  149. 149
    Roger Moore says:

    @Mandalay:

    One problem with that tactic is that it invites quotes from the Bible as responses, and it ain’t pretty…

    …Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

  150. 150
    Joyce H says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Someone was pointing out over the weekend that most of the dystopian YA novels like the Hunger Games series have this exact theme: teens have to save themselves from the fucked-up world their elders created. Kids today are primed to re-create that story, and I hope they succeed.

    Oh, PLEASE let’s not go down that road! Let’s give these kids credit for living in the world as it is, and not try to see them as patterning their lives based on their preferred reading material! I’ve already seen that claim being made over and over again for the shooters – we should do something about violent movies and video games, blah blah blah. (When guess what? The young men of Europe watch the same violent movies and play the same violent video games and somehow manage not to commit mass murder.)

    I remember a world before Buffy, before The Hunger Games, before Harry Potter, and the kids, same age as these kids, were out in the streets, in the hundreds of thousands. They were out there for the same reason these kids are waking up and taking to the streets – because their lives depended on it.

    Just yesterday, I saw protesting kids on the news chanting, “Hey, hey, NRA, how many kids did you kill today?” Man, did that take me back!

  151. 151
    jl says:

    WH staff planting guests on Fox News in hopes that Drumpf will pay attention to some helpful advice.
    Suddenly occurred to me I need to look through old Devo songs for something appropriate for our current situation.

    @ChrisJu44
    From @TIME: WH staffers were unable to convince Trump to mute his tweets to Mueller indictments, so they booked spokesmen on Fox News “to try to direct Trump toward a little less fanciful readings of the indictments.” #ThisIsntNormal
    https://twitter.com/ChrisLu44/status/965974565003366401

  152. 152
    NotMax says:

    @frosty

    The Empire’s lament:

    “If only Vader had kept it in his pants…”

  153. 153
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Humdog: Yeah, that’s one thing Hillary Clinton got 100% wrong in the debate. When asked to say something nice about Trump, she said his kids turned out well. Boy was she wrong!

  154. 154
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Edmund dantes: The tweet I liked is “Since I am not a Russian bot I can’t vote, but,,…”

    Problem the example here is there is a lot more your parents teach you than people realize. If your’ dad is an government worker then he teachers you who to speak in the way that will make the government listen. Naturally competence like this is an unspeakable crime in idiot America.

  155. 155
    Roger Moore says:

    @glory b:

    That’s because children with 2 caring watchful parents don’t get to go on novel-worthy adventures.

    Our very own Frankensteinbeck managed to plot his way around this. It just takes some creativity.

  156. 156
    Cacti says:

    Just thought I’d mention that among the top 25 Congressional recipients of NRA cash in 2016 was…

    Bernard Sanders (I-VT)

  157. 157

    @Betty Cracker: If I were in HRC’s shoes, I would have said that he knows how to get attention .

  158. 158
    Kay says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I can live with that, though. This is a good faith offer. If we’;re wrong what do they lose? I said “experiment” and I mean it.

    If the school shootings don’t go down over some period that “the scientists” tell us is sufficient for data then we return to the status quo free for all and they can go back to not supporting mental health treatment but saying they do and we’ll keep our prior position of supporting mental health treatment.

    They could win this on the merits and they have so little to lose.

  159. 159
    Ridnik Chrome says:

    @Kay: “Now, I’m not going to stand here and play the blame game.” (Repeat as necessary.) If it worked for the Iraq War, it would work for the scenario you described.

  160. 160
    different-church-lady says:

    @Betty Cracker: MODERATOR: “Say something nice about the other candidate.”

    CLINTON’S INNER MONOLOG: “Holy fuckin’ christ, what trick question! I thought I had prepared for anything… Think… think here… there’s… there’s just nothing! Okay, go for the kids angle, that’s safe…”

  161. 161
    jl says:

    @Joyce H: I saw that. My first reaction is that the kids compared reality to Hunger Games and thought that in some ways, their plight is worse. Not even a fair fight. In many states, pretty much any goofball can get a gun on a whim, and go shoot up their school and massacre people, their brothers, sisters and friends, their teachers, the school staff, like bugs.

    I agree that if the point was supposed to be that what the HS students are doing is engaging in some fantasy role playing inspired by a movie series, that is completely misguided. People are getting shot down in mass shootings on a regular basis in this country, and more and more students are being caught up in the consequences. There are parallels, but using them to dismiss the students’ concerns is silly.

  162. 162
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @trollhattan:

    The Las Vegas massacre could not have occurred without that roomful of AR15 clones, the machine gun conversions and the tracer ammo.

    It’s also a case where it’s hard to imagine a non-gun remedy or a “blame the stigmatized group” answer that is relevant. The killer was a wealthy 64-year-old white man with no particular criminal history and no history of mental illness, aside from possibly some very recent depression. He had no organic brain disorders. The only “profile” sorts of things that might have been red flags was that he’d had gambling losses and his father was a criminal; but those things are true of a lot of people.

  163. 163
  164. 164
    Leto says:

    @Kay:

    No one else does this except gun people. No one else insists there may be no discussion unless you get their stupid hobbyist terms exactly right.

    They literally don’t understand the science behind climate change, yet they feel no compunction telling you/us how it’s a hoax and how the scientists are money grubbing leeches… any important topic concerning us today (Climate change/science & technology/ reproductive rights/how women’s bodies work/health care/education/alternative energy sources) republicans show they have a thimble’s worth of knowledge, yet they’ll try to insist that their views/opinions on these topics should be valid. Fuck them all.

  165. 165
    Roger Moore says:

    @NotMax:

    The Empire’s lament:

    “If only Vader had kept it in his pants…”

    If he had kept it in his pants, he never would have been manipulated by Sidious, so there never would have been a Vader.

  166. 166
    Miss Bianca says:

    One thing that leapt out at me from the Buzzfeed article is that these teen activists all know each other from doing theater together.

    Thy’ve made this old high school theater geek and activist feel very proud.

  167. 167
    Leto says:

    @NotMax: “If only Vader had heeded the warning about the high ground…”

  168. 168
    Smiling Mortician says:

    @SFAW: Nicely done.

  169. 169
    indycat32 says:

    @trollhattan: Every republican in Congress should be forced to look at the crime scene photos of every school shooting. While I’ve never seen what happens to a person’s body when shot, I’m assuming its horrific, especially when it’s a 6 year old child shot multiple times.

  170. 170
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    The same people that said 13 and 14 year olds were perfectly mature enough to date Roy Moore are now saying 17 and 18 year olds are too immature to have opinions on gun control.

    So this person is fine with child rape and murder. So noted.

  171. 171
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Kay: The first one was light compared to the other volumes! One of the multiple things I liked about it was that the conceprs and conplexity grew as the kids in the story aged.

  172. 172
    Kay says:

    The big, puffy coddled baby is mad that Rachel Crooks is running for office in Ohio:

    He appeared to be referring to Rachel Crooks, a former receptionist in Trump Tower and now a candidate for the Ohio state legislature. The Washington Post profiled Crooks on Monday.

    She must be pleased. She’s breached the wall of liars that surrounds the giant baby and he’s throwing shit.

  173. 173
    Ksmiami says:

    @schrodingers_cat: yes it’s a misdirected fantasy echoed by old Dems who remember some non existent good old days. For too long our side has had to work for basic decency: now I just want to run over the gop.

  174. 174
    Brachiator says:

    @trollhattan:

    Peter, who had spent part of his childhood in his parents’ native China, had dreamed of attending the West Point military academy, friends say.

    Thanks for this. I was curious about Peter’s background when I read his name.

  175. 175
    TenguPhule says:

    @glory b:

    That’s because children with 2 caring watchful parents don’t get to go on novel-worthy adventures.

    I know this is wrong. I’ve read stories where the children have caring watchful parents, the kids are just A) Brats or B)Think they’re smarter then they think they are. Some of them even manage to become self-inflicted orphans!

  176. 176
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Kay:

    No one else insists there may be no discussion unless you get their stupid hobbyist terms exactly right.

    Also, if you’ve ever spent the slightest amount of time peeking into the culture, you notice that it’s hard to get the level of hobbyist knowledge necessary to satisfy them without also being exposed to truckloads of hardcore gun-fanatic propaganda, to such a degree that anyone not open to being a gun fanatic has to have a strong stomach just to stand it. It’s a political screen for being in the hobby. I know there are people here who have experience in the hobby and don’t share the politics, but they’re probably more stubborn than average.

  177. 177
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Cacti: In 1990 the NRA endorsed Sanders for the Congressional seat held by Republican Peter Smith. Wayne LaPierre sent letters to Vermont residents urging them to vote to unseat an incumbent Republican Congressman by electing a Socialist. As we know, he succeeded.

  178. 178
    MCA1 says:

    @SFAW: That’s a great rhetorical frame for a response.

    I’ve been going with “I will discuss this issue only if you use the proper taxonomy: Machines Uniquely Rendered for Death in Extreme Rations. Anything in that category should be confiscated and banned. Your thoughts?”

  179. 179
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Tenar Arha: Yes, banning this or that type of gun isn’t enough, acting like an ass clown around them has to stop. There is no valid reason why a teen should have an assault rifle like it’s an X-Box.

  180. 180
    Roger Moore says:

    @Gelfling 545:

    One of the multiple things I liked about it was that the conceprs and conplexity grew as the kids in the story aged.

    Honestly, that’s the thing about the books that stands out the most for me. There are plenty of authors who have written interesting children’s literature. I can’t think of another who wrote a series where the books grew up along with the kids. It was incredibly audacious for a first-time author to plan something so big, and remarkable that she was able to execute it so well.

  181. 181
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Kay: They’re terrified of backing down on anything. Firearms regs? ohhh noooo: kids might start living, and the proof that it’s not the arsenal would disappear. SSM? Can’t have that; our spouses might not run off and we’d be stuck with them. Progressive taxation? Pshaw: government would start to work. Competent department heads? Ditto the progressive taxation item. There’s such a fear of being wrong, where their entire world is binary right/wrong, that they will go to any length to avoid the proof that they’ve been making a mistake.

    I sometimes wonder whether this is their issue with evolution: not because it refutes centuries of literal interpretation of Scripture, but simply because it suggests that change is possible and that adaptation to new circumstances is beneficial.

  182. 182
    les says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Fuckin’ logic, how does it work?

  183. 183
    geg6 says:

    @Kay:

    profoundly discredits these people:

    It’s not possible for them to be any more discredited. They showed themselves to be idiots two years ago. You certainly didn’t expect them to get better, did you?

  184. 184
    Kay says:

    @Gelfling 545:

    It was nice that they all loved it so much. They’re so funny how the seal of adult approval can be the kiss of death, so you have to be careful.

    Is it Jerry Seinfeld who does that bit about how the public library is too needy? “Please read! Something! Anything! We LOVE you! Visit us!” Kids are looking at them warily :)

  185. 185
    Mandalay says:

    @jl:

    The contemptible hypocrite Rubio

    Indeed. I have far more respect for Ted Cruz who takes the “from my cold, dead hands” stance over Rubio, who presents this super-reasonable “on-the-one-hand-this-on-the-other-hand-that” persona. But if you examine what Rubio actually says it’s worthless word salad. He’s not going to do anything except continue taking money from the NRA.

    He actually had the balls to post this 14 minute interview with a local TV station on youtube, where he offered absolutely nothing in the way of change. I’m sure he thinks he came out of it looking good, but he is obviously part of the problem, not the solution:

    https://youtu.be/g0FAblrkaAk
    https://youtu.be/9zw3e0jfcDU

  186. 186
    TenguPhule says:

    @trollhattan:

    Anybody who says we “need” any of these things needs to move to Somalia and live out their fantasies by trying to pirate tankers from inflatable rafts.

    Anyone who claims they “need” a rifle for self-defense is lying and/or insane. You want something for home defense? Get a fucking shotgun. Or as of Heller, a pistol(*). Using a rifle means you don’t give a shit where those bullets are going through. Or who you might be hitting with them.

    *I don’t approve of handguns either, but fucking SC ruling has to be overturned to deal with them.

  187. 187
    SFAW says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The only “profile” sorts of things that might have been red flags was that he’d had gambling real estate losses and his father was a criminal; but those things are true of a lot of people.

    Someone better make sure Jared doesn’t gain access to any AR-15s or similar

  188. 188
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Kay: Who’s mad about this? Need moar info. :)

  189. 189
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Kay: The 1990s ban had a ten-year sunset provision like that. In hindsight, the problem was that 9/11 happened during the ban period, Republicans got total control, and spree shootings went completely off everyone’s plate as a major subject of debate. The ban was allowed to expire in 2004 without much discussion at all.

    (And there was also one really bad year of mass shootings during the ban period, with a cluster of several incidents including Columbine, which made it look like the ban wasn’t accomplishing anything. But that huge one-year spike in 1999 looks more or less like a typical year today.)

    I do think we need to try it again, especially if it’s a stronger law. I don’t expect the results to be clear-cut, or the gun people to go down easily.

  190. 190
    Chip Daniels says:

    @SFAW:
    I make a point of correcting them, that the proper term is “clip”, not magazine.
    Because fuck it, anyone who proudly brings that issue up can’t be persuaded, but can be trolled.

  191. 191
    Kay says:

    @boatboy_srq:

    SSM? Can’t have that; our spouses might not run off and we’d be stuck with them

    That right there. Talk about a tempest in a tea pot. Not one bad thing happened.

  192. 192
  193. 193
    Kay says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Trump is mad. Rachel Crooks is (rightly and logically) pointing out that all kinds of bigshots are being held accountable on metoo with the huge, glaring exception of Donald “I’m SPECIAL!” Trump.

    But she’s also running on a liberal platform that is solid for a state rep, like everyone else.

  194. 194
    Gravenstone says:

    @Kay: Oh, they know exactly what they’re doing. They’re choosing not to endorse an actual Democrat. Going instead for the carnival freak show that is Kucinich. Ya know a fella just like their patron saint, Bernie.

  195. 195
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Tenar Arha: Well, that tweet wins the internet.

    I like that even in that tweet, people are trying to pull the “Calling an AR-15 and ‘assault rifle’ is misinformation by unscrupulous liberals!” evasion. I’m honestly rather impressed.

  196. 196
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @SFAW: I just recently learned that an assault weapon that is a rifle is not necessarily an assault rifle. There are traps everywhere in the terminology.

  197. 197
    Kay says:

    @Gravenstone:

    Kucinich is worse than Sanders. Why do they think he’s liberal? Does “mean and eccentric possibly veering toward real mental illness” mean “liberal” now?

    He’s no more “liberal” than any other Democrat in Ohio and he’s less liberal than a lot of them. This is bad for them. It’s disqualifying.

  198. 198
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Joyce H:

    Sorry, I didn’t mean to run the kids down. But it has been pretty striking the last decade or so how much dystopian fiction is about kids having to rescue the world because adults have fucked it up.

    I’m more saying that it may help the kids feel more empowered to try and change things than that it’s somehow making them do something they wouldn’t normally do.

  199. 199
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Tenar Arha: Ah, yes, the people who think that the Pill works by abortion and a tampon is a kind of sex toy.

  200. 200
    glory b says:

    @TenguPhule: LOL at self-inflicted orphans.

  201. 201
    Smiling Mortician says:

    @Hungry Joe:

    Yet I can’t figure out how this time was different.

    For me, I think it was the student who tweeted something like “Fuck you, you piece of shit” to Trump.

  202. 202
    glory b says:

    @Kay: Then again, Nina Turner (who I was impressed with previously) said that Our Revolution isn’t going to make common cause with the Democrats.

    Well okay, then what are you here for? What do intend to accomplish and how will you go about it?

    Never heard an answer.

  203. 203
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @glory b: The only answer that makes sense at this point is that they’re there to damage the Democrats.

  204. 204
    Mnemosyne says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷:

    That’s the plot of Miyazaki’s Spirited Away.

  205. 205
    Calouste says:

    @Chip Daniels: As someone here explained the other day, the distinction between a clip and a magazine is quite simple:

    A clip is what the Russians have of Trump with some prostitutes, a magazine is what Trump asked a porn star to spank him with.

  206. 206
    Calouste says:

    @glory b: I think the answer is “Cash in those rubles”.

  207. 207
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Smiling Mortician:

    Yeah. Things are different because Trump is such an asshole and these students know it. They know he doesn’t really care about them. It’s like he’s a catalyst for change, good and bad. The “good” change is in reaction to the “bad”. I have a feeling the right is going to regret hitching their wagon to Trump.

  208. 208
    glory b says:

    @Gravenstone: I agree, but why? Do they have their eye on a goal? I thought that they planned on having some type of role, but they didn’t ever step up to do anything.

    Think of all the other groups that have taken off since the election, Indivisible, Moms Demand Action, etc. it’s not like there wasn’t space for them if they wanted it. I was equal parts interested an concerned about what they were going to do, but, crickets.

    I always thought that Wilmer was basically lazy. So is his group.

  209. 209
    Miss Bianca says:

    @TenguPhule: Or a dog. A nice, big dog – or a little dog with a big-dog bark – is a marvelous deterrent to home invasion.

  210. 210
    Spanky says:

    Swiss Family Robinson‘s plot is largely about kids fighting the bad guys and trying to escape their island, while working alongside mutter und vater. And that was published in 1812. The trope evidently goes back a ways.

  211. 211
    p.a. says:

    Not to be cold-hearted about it, but this kids’ young adults’ movement is win-win for libs; I hope this is the first little slide that starts the avalanche. But if not, these people are going to experience a slander campaign that should make them libs for life. So go ahead Kochsuckers, alienate even more youth. SOUTHERN youth at that.

  212. 212
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Smiling Mortician:
    Yeah. Things are different because Trump is such an asshole and these students know it. They know he doesn’t really care about them. It’s like he’s a catalyst for change, good and bad. The “good” change is in reaction to the “bad”. I have a feeling the right is going to regret hitching their wagon to Trump.

  213. 213
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Kay: Exactly. And they’re terrified that the rest of their agenda would fall apart in exactly the same way.

    ETA: I swear to murgatroyd that half the Reichwing opposition to SSM was based on the presumption that some unknowable plurality of cis marriages were marriages of convenience, and that given half a chance all those unhappy couples would immediately separate and reform as LGBT couples. And Gun-Totin’ Capitalist White Jeebus can’t have that.

  214. 214
    glory b says:

    @Calouste: Well, okay, that makes sense.

  215. 215
    Roger Moore says:

    @Kay:

    Kucinich is worse than Sanders. Why do they think he’s liberal?

    I think their primary consideration is that he isn’t favored by the Democratic establishment. They don’t care if that’s because his views are too far to the left or if it’s because he’s an asshole who doesn’t play well with others. Kneecapping the Democratic Party outweighs any other factor.

  216. 216
    GregB says:

    The take away in these times is that we all really need to not hurt the feelings of the people wearing guns and “Fuck Your Feelings” tee shirts.

  217. 217
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Kay: Yeah, just read about this on NPR. Short version: Crooks says Trump sexually assaulted her and kissed her in an elevator for around two minutes. It’s probably true, Trump isn’t convincing anyone, and he won’t ever be prosecuted for it because the evidence in these sorts of things either doesn’t exist or relies on Trump’s own business.

    Crooks says the surveillance footage will show it. I’m pretty damn sure that the security footage wasn’t retained for 12 years, and even if it was I wouldn’t be surprised if someone in the Trump Org happened to ‘lose’ it conveniently. And that’s why the #MeToo movement is necessary – these assaulters are insulated from their own actions.

  218. 218
    Brachiator says:

    BTW:

    Supreme Court won’t hear challenge to California’s waiting period for gun purchases

    The Supreme Court refused Tuesday to hear a challenge to California’s 10-day waiting period for gun purchases, the second longest in the nation.

    As the national debate over guns intensified following last week’s school shooting in Florida that killed 17 students and teachers, the high court continued to resist inserting itself — a path it has followed for several years.

    Justice Clarence Thomas issued an angry, 14-page dissent in which he complained that lower courts have failed to give the Second Amendment “the respect due an enumerated constitutional right.” But none of the court’s other conservatives joined him.

  219. 219
    dww44 says:

    @Gretchen: That’s because Kingston sold himself out early to the Trump Candidacy. While he was once viewed as a sane GOP congressman from Georgia, he’s being paid by CNN and who else? to carry water for Trump. Therefore he has to ascribe his finacially motivated views to the political opposition, even if the opposition is a bunch of high school students. It’s the Bannon philosophy writ large for all the talking pundits on the right. Sling anything and everything, no matter how crazy or illogical and inevitably some of it will stick. It’s worked so far and will only stop working if Cable news hosts put a stop to it..

  220. 220
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Kay: I can’t find out (for some reason), but are they endorsing Kucinich in the Republican Primary or for the General for the governor’s race? One of them is understandable – the other is fucking nuts.

  221. 221
    Gravenstone says:

    @a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio): The young man who appeared on Maddow last night mentioned having “three musicals” on deck, so someone clearly familiar with speaking before an audience. Yeah, some of these outspoken kids have a background already that suits them for this role as a public face for what they’re trying to do. The assholes are just going to have to deal with that.

  222. 222
    Roger Moore says:

    @glory b:
    Neoliberals and corporate sellouts have taken over the Democratic Party. To get rid of the parasites, we have to kill the host. Only after the Democratic Party has been destroyed can a truly leftist party take over and usher in Socialist nirvana. At least that’s the theory. IMO, there are a lot of people espousing that theory who are actually hoping to destroy the Democratic Party so the Republicans can usher in libertarian nirvana.

  223. 223
    boatboy_srq says:

    @eric: 2nd Amendment > The Entire Rest of the Constitution.

    Because their worldview is all about Protecting What’s Theirs™ and shooting them what disagree. If there were the least respect for any primary Article of that document, or for any other Amendment, there wouldn’t be the stinks that anyone afflicted with ammosexuality make when things like land use, zoning, equal opportunity, voting rights, or even the right of Those Other People™ to be equivantly armed come up in public discourse.

  224. 224
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Brachiator:

    Justice Clarence Thomas issued an angry, 14-page dissent in which he complained that lower courts have failed to give the Second Amendment “the respect due an enumerated constitutional right.” But none of the court’s other conservatives joined him.

    If the far right ever got absolute power over this nation, Uncle Thomas would be put out to pasture, so to speak, like any other undesirable. Pathetic that he thinks this sucking up would ever save him.

  225. 225
    Kay says:

    @glory b:

    I know Nina Turner is a sore spot around here but I still like her. I met her at a voting rights event. My husband met her at a separate government event (he does contract work for the state) and he told me she “exudes integrity”.

    She sort of does.

    Kucinich is just a bitter, paranoid asshole and as I said- not that liberal. Which should matter to such high-minded non-partisans. His views.

  226. 226
    TenguPhule says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Or a dog. A nice, big dog – or a little dog with a big-dog bark – is a marvelous deterrent to home invasion.

    But I like dogs. And some of those gunhumpers just can’t be trusted with them.

  227. 227
    trollhattan says:

    @Brachiator: @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷:
    Good ol’ Clarence is back in the news for all the wrong reasons. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy–wonder how long Ginny’s drunk-dial list is lately?

  228. 228
    catclub says:

    @GregB: This is just crazy. The FBI is incredibly far right – they are the only ones who never did any weed so they can get clearances. Who else would look at J Edgar Hoover and think “I want to be like him”? except far right authoritarians?

  229. 229
    TenguPhule says:

    Dating site for Trump supporters used a sex offender as its model — and it has a few other issues, too

    Via Wapo.

    Too horrified to click on.

  230. 230
    jl says:

    @Kay: Sometimes I watch clips of Turner’s interviews and she seems vary thoughtful, and reasonable. Other times, she seems intolerant and liable to burn the house down if it is not absolutely perfect. I am cynical enough to dismiss any thoughts that any politician ‘exudes integrity’, and never have sensed it anyway, from any politician. Not even the sainted Bernie.

    I don’t think the die-hard progressive fanatics should be dismissed. If there were signs that Trumpster reign of error and malicious incompetence had brought a significant fraction of US voting population to its senses and there was a big uptick in Dmeocratic voter identification, maybe they could be dismissed. But while GOP ID goes down, Dem ID is about the same, while independent ID goes up. Seems evidence to me that a large number of people in the US do not like the Democratic party very much, even if they see real time what happens when the GOP runs everything. So, why that is deserves some attention, IMHO.

  231. 231
    glory b says:

    @Kay: I know you’ve met her, and maybe that’s the difference.

    She’s a headscratcher for me. She seems to have lost a step or something like that. It feels like her political radar has gone awry.

  232. 232
    TenguPhule says:

    @GregB:

    Many have become so warped that a child having a parent in the FBI is an indicator of moral unfitness.

    And these are the early days yet. They will become even more insane as time progresses.

  233. 233
    Roger Moore says:

    @boatboy_srq:
    I’m a fan of the theory that they’re worried about a marriage that is truly equal. In their view, the only successful basis for marriage is one where men command and women (and children) obey. A marriage between partners of the same sex undermines that dynamic. If it succeeds, it proves that inequality is not central to a marriage being successful. That’s a huge blow to patriarchy.

  234. 234
    TenguPhule says:

    Trump Attacks Obama Over Russia Election Meddling

    Sadly, not the Onion.

    FYNYT.

  235. 235
    glory b says:

    @Brachiator: 14 pages? He can’t usually bestir himself enough to ask a question or write a few sentences.

  236. 236
    Spanky says:

    @TenguPhule: Oh! I just came from there! Definitely worth a read for the hilarity.

  237. 237
    SFAW says:

    @Brachiator:

    Justice Clarence Thomas issued an angry, 14-page dissent in which he complained that lower courts have failed to give the Second Amendment “the respect due an enumerated constitutional right.” But none of the court’s other conservatives joined him.

    Fuck you, you sick, evil, angry, hypocritical sexual predator.

  238. 238
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Someone here said that they knew Christianists who were fine with mixed-race marriages as long as the woman was the one who was not white, because that meant that a white man was still in charge as God intended. They freaked out at mixed-race marriages between a Black man and a white woman because that was messing with God’s natural order. 🙄

  239. 239
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Roger Moore: That synchs with their insistence that there’s a “boy” and a “girl” in SSM pairings. But the binary right/wrong perception is a constant, and carries over to everything else.

  240. 240
    TenguPhule says:

    A skirmish involving the United States “nuclear football” reportedly broke out in Beijing last year just hours after Donald Trump had flown in for what he later hailed as an “absolutely terrific” visit.

    Trump arrived in the Chinese capital on 8 November for what his hosts had promised would be a “state visit-plus”.

    However, according to Axios, the visit’s first full day was marred when a scuffle between Chinese and American agents broke out as the US president visited the Great Hall of the People, the imposing Mao-era auditorium where he was due to meet his Chinese counterpart, Xi Jinping.

    Citing five separate sources, Axios reported that Chinese officials had blocked the entry of the US military aide carrying the “nuclear football”, a black leather satchel containing the codes that allow the president to launch a nuclear strike.

    A US official reportedly then rushed into an adjoining room to inform US chief of staff John Kelly of what was happening. “Kelly rushed over and told the US officials to keep walking – ‘We’re moving in,’ he said – and the Americans all started moving.

    “Then there was a commotion,” Axios reported. “A Chinese security official grabbed Kelly, and Kelly shoved the man’s hand off of his body. Then a US secret service agent grabbed the Chinese security official and tackled him to the ground.”

    The report said the fracas was “over in a flash” and that officials had been told to keep the altercation secret.

    SMH and FP so fucking hard.

  241. 241
    Brachiator says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Trump Attacks Obama Over Russia Election Meddling

    Trump attacks Obama.

    Then

    Trump attacks Clinton

    Then Trump attacks somebody about something

    Trump is never responsible for anything, but wants to take credit for everything. This shit has to be getting old, even for Trump supporters (well, maybe not for these idiots). But anybody with a brain can see what a pathetic excuse for a human being Trump is. He doesn’t realize how weak this makes him look.

    ETA. The only thing more pathetic is how Republicans continue to bow down to Trump. Trump insults and humiliates Romney. Romney can’t wait to kiss Trump’s ass and seek his endorsement.

  242. 242
    Spanky says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷:

    Thomas, the court’s most conservative justice, said the court’s reticence to get involved constitutes a double standard. He noted the court is hearing at least five First Amendment cases and four Fourth Amendment cases this term, “even though our jurisprudence is much more developed for those rights.”

    Noting it takes just four votes to hear a case, Thomas said the court likely would agree to review a 10-day waiting period for abortions or the publication of racist speech, or even a 10-minute delay of a traffic stop.

    “The court would take these cases because abortion, speech and the Fourth Amendment are three of its favored rights,” he said. “The right to keep and bear arms is apparently this court’s constitutional orphan. And the lower courts seem to have gotten the message.”

    Setting up those straw men again, eh Clarence? Showing the true judicial mind required to be a SCJ.

  243. 243
    TenguPhule says:

    @Brachiator: Its like we’re trapped in a version of 1984 gone horribly wrong. Trump is raping Logic’s mutilated corpse out in public for everyone to see and half of our country is simply smiling and nodding in unison like that neighborhood in A Wrinkle in Time.

  244. 244
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Brachiator: is this the case of “even a conservative SCJ doesn’t need the weatherman to see which way the wind’s blowing?”

    ETA: Not Thomas, of course. He’ll continue to carry the RWNJ water for them. Sad!

  245. 245
    celticdragonchick says:

    @foucault swing voter mistermix: LOL I wrote a paper about that subject in college regarding how progressive school activist is bottom up and conservative activism is top down.

    https://www.academia.edu/21564584/Creationism_in_Public_Schools_Community_Organizing_on_the_Religious_Right

  246. 246
    d58826 says:

    Listening to the WH briefing. Sarah has a promising second career in selling her services to farmers to spread BS on their fields.

    They spent a lot of time dancing around gun control. One thing Der Fuhrer could do, with the stroke of a pen, is re-instate the Obama regulation that included mental health as part of the back ground checks.

  247. 247
    trollhattan says:

    @TenguPhule:
    “1984” without the humour.

  248. 248
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Brachiator:

    Romney can’t wait to kiss Trump’s ass and seek his endorsement.

    And what is that endorsement even worth these days?

  249. 249
    trollhattan says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷:
    It already happened, and RMoney is being mocked with his 2016 anti-Trump tweet. They should get a room already.

  250. 250
    TenguPhule says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷:

    And what is that endorsement even worth these days?

    37% of the Republican base.

  251. 251
    TenguPhule says:

    @trollhattan: Well played.

  252. 252
    d58826 says:

    The other interesting comment that Sarah made was that Jared will continue to perform his WH functions with or w/o a security clearance.

  253. 253
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Mnemosyne: Black man/white woman has always been the trigger for the racist lizard brain’s fight-or-flee response.

  254. 254
    Leto says:

    @d58826: He’ll never approve of anything Obama signed. Obama could’ve signed the “Lets Make Sure Donald Trump has Plenty of Water for the Rest of His Life so He Doesn’t Die of Dehydration” Act and the fuck would still veto it, all while drinking a soda just to make sure he “proved his point”.

  255. 255
    Brachiator says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Someone here said that they knew Christianists who were fine with mixed-race marriages as long as the woman was the one who was not white, because that meant that a white man was still in charge as God intended.

    I’ve never seen or heard of this, and I know a lot of fucked up Christians. If this is true at all (and I’m mighty skeptical), it could only be a very small number of these boneheads.

    The worst of these people still use racist Bible Concordances and flat out oppose interracial marriage and even interracial dating.

  256. 256
    Leto says:

    @d58826: “Fuck the rule of law. We’ll make sure to take the original Constitution out of it’s protective casing just so the President can really wipe his ass with it. Next question.”

    Can the Justice Department do something about this? Yes, I too dream of unicorns and pots of gold…

  257. 257
    J R in WV says:

    Off topic, but it’s 82 degrees outside here today. Wonderful afternoon, very sunny, pretty sky, green moss…

    We picked up so much solar energy through the small south side of our house that by noon it was 75 inside. By 2 I turned on the A/C to keep it from becoming intolerable. It’s off now, but still….

    Once the leaves come out, that southern window just keeps the kitchen bright and happy, but between the end of cold weather and the leaf out, it can be amazingly hot, just from the sunshine. Which is good in the winter…

    But running the A/C, even if just for an hour, in mid-February is really strange and scary!!! The climate is changing, people, and anyone who denies it can’t tell you if it’s daylight outside by looking out a window.

    Hey, Hey, NRA! How Many Kids Did You Kill Today??!?!

    Brings back memories. I hope we do better against the NRA and the GOP than we did against LBJ back in the day. We did keep him from being re-elected, but that meant we got Traitor Nixon…. first GOP traitor president in a long line of treasonous bastards!

  258. 258
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Gretchen: Jack Kingston is an objectively stupid person.

  259. 259
    Aleta says:

    @d58826: Looking at his reflection in the antique mirrors. Making office supply requests for gold pens. Tirelessly filling out paperwork for fraudulent loans.

  260. 260
    SFAW says:

    @J R in WV:

    The climate is changing, people, and anyone who denies it can’t tell you if it’s daylight outside by looking out a window.

    Oh, bullshit. Al Gore is/was fat, so your “argument” is null-and-void, libtard.

  261. 261
    SFAW says:

    @Aleta:

    Looking at his reflection in the antique mirrors.

    You sure he has one?

    ETA: A reflection, that is.

  262. 262
    catclub says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷: If the GOP right took the strategic view they would impeach Thomas yesterday and get new younger version installed before the elections of this year. Good they don’t have me advising them.

    There has already been talk of Thomas resigning this summer to get a new younger version installed.

  263. 263
    Ruckus says:

    I’d like to know if and how I could help these kids. Stay out of the way, moral support, what?

  264. 264
    Aleta says:

    @J R in WV:

    between the end of cold weather and the leaf out

    That period is kind of brutal here. The summer temps are hitting earlier in the spring, the UV seems more intense. But especially because there’s no shade yet. Tree shade, a world of difference between with and without.

  265. 265
    John Revolta says:

    @Aleta: OT: I was sad to hear about you losing your stuffed dog on the rock expedition last night.
    I’ll bet somebody found it, and took it home and loved it. :-)

  266. 266
    Roger Moore says:

    @Aleta:

    Looking at his reflection in the antique mirrors. Making office supply requests for gold pens. Tirelessly filling out paperwork for fraudulent loans.

    Asking for all the top secret code word information he can get his hands on so he can sell it to anyone with the coin to help his failing family business.

  267. 267
    sukabi says:

    @Gretchen: it might be an interesting experiment to put all the gun jumpers in a venue and have them experience what these kids have…but then it’s already happened with the senate ballgame shooting and crickets….the only explanation is that they are sociopathic monsters.

  268. 268
    Roger Moore says:

    @catclub:

    There has already been talk of Thomas resigning this summer to get a new younger version installed.

    Good thing he’s too stubborn and self-centered to do so.

  269. 269
    Mike in NC says:

    Mind boggling that Trump Dating is a real thing. Do these loons get together to chat about their wonderful memories of Trump University, all the while cuddling their Trumpy Bears?

  270. 270
    TenguPhule says:

    @sukabi:

    but then it’s already happened with the senate ballgame shooting and crickets

    To be fair, none of them were killed in that incident.

  271. 271
    Aleta says:

    @Ruckus: Me too. Help with gas money for the DC protest they are planning?

    Last night I read a facebook page for the KY branch of the Moms Demand group. They mentioned kids who are hoping to go. I got the feeling the Moms Demand members in different states may be giving support to kids local to them who want to protest. Perhaps some will be going to DC to help look out for the kids.

    An email to a Moms Demand chapter, or the facebook page of the Florida chapter, might bring suggestions.
    https://www.facebook.com/MomsDemandActionFLSouth/

    Whatever you figure out, I’d appreciate hearing about it.

  272. 272
    Jeffro says:

    @trollhattan: and more than Two Minutes’ Hate, to be sure…

  273. 273
    bemused says:

    @Droppy:

    I usually pay him no mind but this column really got steam shooting out my ears. Respect the gun nuts and they won’t despise you? What a crock and he knows it. He’s done quite well financially inventing social insight bullshit for seemingly forever and shame on media for propping him up.

  274. 274
    Brachiator says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷:

    Romney can’t wait to kiss Trump’s ass and seek his endorsement.

    And what is that endorsement even worth these days?

    Romney is hot to get that endorsement. Or maybe he has become used to groveling.

    From an ABC News story

    Trump, in turn, said Romney “choked like a dog” when he lost in 2012 to President Obama and called him a “mixed up man who doesn’t have a clue.”

    But Romney accepted Trump’s endorsement on Twitter late Monday, making no mention of his previous critical comments.

    Thank you Mr. President for the support. I hope that over the course of the campaign I also earn the support and endorsement of the people of Utah.

    And further:

    He’s on the same page policy-wise as Trump, Romney said in an interview with The Associated Press on the day of his campaign announcement Friday, though adding he wouldn’t hesitate to speak out against the president if he disagreed with him. He mentioned an immigration plan similar to Trump’s in an interview with the The Salt Lake Tribune, offering support for “a border fence or wall” and saying he agreed that chain migration and the lottery program should be fixed.

    Is the entire Republican Party a sad, whipped dog?

  275. 275
    bemused says:

    @Kay:

    I doubt they have consciences or they wouldn’t be doing this in the first place. More likely terrified of their cash cows drying up.

  276. 276
    Gex says:

    The next time I hear a conservative use “think of the children” as a justification for some policy I piss my pants laughing. They don’t care about children. They generally promote policies that bring death to children, from infant mortality rates to school shootings, from the school to prison pipeline/Trayvon Martin/Tamir Rice/Mike Brown to the “religious protections” that drive queer kids to suicide like in Anoka, MN. They are bathed in the blood of children and they cannot get enough.

  277. 277
    Aleta says:

    @John Revolta: That’s so kind of you!! The thought is a great comfort after so many years of agony. Though my cold hearted parents would not turn the car around, perhaps the discovery of Brownie lying alone on the picnic table bench was a turning point in the life of a fellow reprobate 6 yr old.

  278. 278
    Feathers says:

    Reminded of the Welcome to Nightvale NRA chapter slogans;

    “A list of things that kill people:
    One – conceivably anything!
    Two – not guns!”

  279. 279

    @Brachiator:

    Is the entire Republican Party a sad, whipped dog?

    Yup, on the roof of the car.

  280. 280
    John Revolta says:

    @Aleta:I oughta know- I’ve found a few myself!

  281. 281
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    She did get it wrong, I agree — yet I’m inclined to cut her a little bit of slack. In all honesty, what could she possibly have said? She had already excoriated Trump on every element of policy, temperament, and personal behavior, so she couldn’t walk those back. And if she had — however honestly — either refused to answer or said “I can’t think of a single thing,” it would have completely dominated the remaining weeks of campaign coverage, and not to her benefit. I think she answered a stupid question in the most anodyne and least controversial way she could.

  282. 282
    Brachiator says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Is the entire Republican Party a sad, whipped dog?

    Yup, on the roof of the car.

    Ha ha ha ha! Yes! Exactamundo!

  283. 283
    MomSense says:

    God dammit, I just saw a photo of some of the Parkland heroes watching the Florida legislature fail to take up a motion to take up a weapons ban. One of the students was obviously distraught with her hand covering her mouth and I lost it.

    I was simultaneously crying and wishing I could go on the floor of the legislature, and smash things.

    The Republican Party is nothing but greedy, sociopathic, opportunists. The whole god damned party is irredeemable and needs to be destroyed.

  284. 284
    bemused says:

    @Joyce H:

    Wow, brings back memories of late 60’s and early 70’s!

  285. 285
    bemused says:

    @indycat32:

    I agree but I have a sinking feeling it wouldn’t affect that many of them the way it should.

  286. 286
    Ruckus says:

    @MomSense:
    I’m going to do some research after work and will let everyone know what I find out, as far as helping.
    Just remember that the vast majority of republicans are bought and paid for. They sold their souls for pennies and know they got the better end of the deal.

  287. 287
    mai naem mobile says:

    I know the NRA is an industry lobby . Is the gun industry really that big in this country? I understand bankers and the auto industry getting their way but guns? It’s a single product .

  288. 288
    WaterGirl says:

    @trollhattan:

    “His parents fainted as soon as they saw his body. He had got multiple shots in front… So horrible.”

    As horrible as it is to read that, that should be posted everywhere. Gun humping republicans should not get to whitewash the reality of what happens.

  289. 289
    WaterGirl says:

    @J R in WV: Every time someone at the grocery store (or wherever) says how crazy the weather is , I agree and then say “Climate change is real.” They often get really quiet, but I am going to keep on saying it.

  290. 290
    WaterGirl says:

    @Ruckus: March for Our Lives – there is a donate link on their page. I posted their mission statement here earlier today. It’s impressive.

  291. 291
    WaterGirl says:

    I would love for DougJ to put up a thermometer for March for Our Lives – could that be done through Act Blue, or does that have to be a candidate? Or a GoFundMe, but the one that takes the least amount of money?

    It would make me feel better if we could collectively donate and see a really nice amount that could make a difference.

    Maybe BJ could provide food for the marchers? Help kids get there? Something?

  292. 292
    Ruckus says:

    @WaterGirl:
    I’ve seen that and it sounds great. I want to know more. And money is an issue in my life, especially as I just can not see myself working more than a couple more years. Time, that I’ve got, money not so much extra on that. And if the ghouls in congress have their way I may end up sleeping under a bridge yet. That will frost my cake.

  293. 293
    WaterGirl says:

    @Ruckus: Know this, Ruckus: we will not let you sleep under a bridge. We’ve got your back.

  294. 294
    Ruckus says:

    @WaterGirl:
    Danke!
    I went to the web site for March For Our Lives and it really only allows you to sign up or send money. You can find them on FB and I posted there, offering to volunteer. Looked at twitter and it’s pretty much like FB, posting but not a lot of answering.

  295. 295
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @WaterGirl: relax—he lives in LA where it’s under bridge sleeping weather like 350 days a year

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