Open Thread: Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III’s “Anglo-American Heritage”


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We’re gonna have to turn Snopes.com into a public utility, at this rate:

On 12 February 2018, Attorney General Jeff Sessions delivered a speech to the National Sheriff’s Association at their winter meeting, praising state and local law enforcement while advocating for reduced federal interference in their work. In remarks that diverged from the speech as presented on the Justice Department website, Sessions closed by invoking the “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement”…

The prepared remarks from which Sessions strayed included an omitted reference to tribal law enforcement, and they did not mention the purported Anglo-American heritage of the Sheriff’s office:

I want to close by reiterating my deep appreciation and profound thanks to all the women and men of law enforcement — federal, state, local, and tribal. I want to thank every sheriff in America.

Since our founding, the independently elected Sheriff has been seen as the people’s protector, who keeps law enforcement close to and amenable to the people. The Sheriff is a critical part of our legal heritage.

Critics have suggested that Session’s use of “Anglo-American” implies that law enforcement is inherently the purview of individuals of white European Christian decent — a perception helped along by the speech’s primary focus on the merits of removing so-called “illegal immigrants” to curb violent crime…

219 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    Anglo bobbies don’t carry guns. Just saying.

  2. 2
    danielx says:

    Got the calendar….

  3. 3
  4. 4
    NotMax says:

    On 12 February

    Lincoln’s birthday.

    Coincidence? Not on your tintype.

  5. 5
    JPL says:

    @Baud: Where’s Robin Hood?

  6. 6
    Mnemosyne says:

    I knew there was a reason I spent the weekend reading romance novels and hanging out with friends rather than keeping up with the assholes.

    Jiminy Christmas.

  7. 7
    Baud says:

    @JPL: Kevin Costner killed him.

  8. 8
    Mary G says:

    This is gonna leave a mark:

    That hurts: parents of a guy running for Senate in Wisconsin donated the maximum amount possible to his opponent https://t.co/AaVcSBIecw— Paul Szoldra (@PaulSzoldra) February 12, 2018

  9. 9
    Mike J says:

    Rob Flaherty @Rob_Flaherty 2h
    The parents of the guy Bannon backed to unseat Tammy Baldwin have donated the legal limit in the Wisconsin senate race…

    …to Tammy Baldwin.

    ETA: Damn Mary G and her faster typing/cutting pasting fingers!

  10. 10
    dexwood says:

    I’m surprised he included tribal law enforcement officers such as my wife’s Pueblo Indian relatives who are definitely not “Anglo-Americans”. Must have been a mistake. Sorry to comment and run, responsibilities call.

  11. 11
    Baud says:

    @Mary G:

    Ouch.

    And good for them.

  12. 12
  13. 13
    SFAW says:

    Confederate Attorney General Bilbo Biggot is just warming up the crowd before he finally says the 14 words.

    “The 14 words”??? And those words are?

    Yet another Internet tradition of which I am un-blissfully unaware.

  14. 14
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    It’s even dumber when you factor in the DOJ’s official justification:

    Ian Prior, a spokesperson for the DOJ, said in a statement that the term “Anglo-American law” is common parlance among lawyers and legal scholars, pointing to a number of opinions from the US Supreme Court.

    “As most law students learn in the first week of their first year, Anglo-American law — also known as the common law — is a shared legal heritage between England and America. The sheriff is unique to that shared legal heritage. Before reporters sloppily imply nefarious meaning behind the term, we would suggest that they read any number of the Supreme Court opinions that use the term. Or they could simply put ‘Anglo-American law’ into Google,” Prior said.

    Regardless of their origins, today Sheriffs are not a feature of “common law” or Anglo American law or whatever. Louisiana – which traces its legal history back through the Napoleonic Code instead of the English Common Law – has sheriffs.

    Sheriff’s are bound by the Constitution (not a feature of the Common law) and legislatively enacted laws and statutes (also not a feature of the common law.)

    Finally, the most commonly understood meaning of common law is precedent established by court decisions as opposed to statutory enactment. Sheriffs have jack shit to do with interpreting, shaping, or playing any role in the common law, other than, maybe, arresting people who violate it. But almost all laws are now by statute so I can’t even think of an instance where a sheriff would enforce the “common law” as opposed to a statute.

    This is just dumb on so many levels. Not surprising, of course.

  15. 15
    SFAW says:

    @dexwood:

    I’m surprised he included tribal law enforcement officers such as my wife’s Pueblo Indian relatives who are definitely not “Anglo-Americans”. Must have been a mistake. Sorry to comment and run, responsibilities call

    I think the poorly-written sentence in the article was saying that the tribal law comment was part of the speech as written, but the Malevolent KKKeebler Elf left it out.

  16. 16

    Work and writing both went really well today, so I’m feeling pretty good. And while somebody left a mean comment about today’s webcomic update on Reddit, he (I assume he) deleted it after I pointed out that it probably didn’t make sense to him because it’s a serial and there were several dozen strips preceding it. And I broke 100 subscribers last week without noticing apparently, yipee!

    @SFAW: it’s some alt right Blood and soil Nazi meme shit

  17. 17
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Sounds like everything is coming up Milhouse.

  18. 18

    @Baud: I can’t believe I got somebody who was being mean on the internet to go away!

  19. 19
  20. 20
    SFAW says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    @Citizen Alan:
    @Steeplejack:

    Got it, thanks.

    ETA: And I have to apologize for my laziness. I did not think a phrase as (seemingly) innocuous as those would yield worthwhile Google hits. Obviously I was worng.

  21. 21
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    @SFAW:

    Segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever?

    Hmm…. only 6 words.

  22. 22
  23. 23
    PPCLI says:

    It isn’t just the “Anglo-American” that’s a problem, if I understand these things correctly. It’s also the reference to “Sheriffs”, a status that is worshipped by Bundy-clan type wackos who claim that all law enforcement above the Sheriff’s level is illegitimate. Or something like that. It’s hard to figure out exactly what is the precise flavour of lunacy they believe.

  24. 24
    Steeplejack says:

    @SFAW:

    That was the interpretation I had: in the speech as written, omitted as delivered.

  25. 25
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): There are a pair of these on either side of the Speaker’s podium in the House of Representatives.
    https://gdb.voanews.com/76308295-950C-4E21-A6E9-C1242A1762E4_cx0_cy8_cw0_w1023_r1_s.jpg

  26. 26
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Cole should hire you to police this place.

  27. 27
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mary G: @Mike J: Here you go:

  28. 28
    mai naem mobile says:

    Jeffy Sessions, Sheriff of Nuttingham who steals from the poor to give to the rich.

  29. 29
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SFAW: https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/14-words

    “14 Words” is a reference to the most popular white supremacist slogan in the world: “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.” The slogan was coined by David Lane, a member of the white supremacist terrorist group known as The Order (Lane died in prison in 2007). The term reflects the primary white supremacist worldview in the late 20th and early 21st centuries: that unless immediate action is taken, the white race is doomed to extinction by an alleged “rising tide of color” purportedly controlled and manipulated by Jews.

    Because of its widespread popularity, white supremacists reference this slogan constantly, in its full form as well as in abbreviated versions such as “14 Words”, “Fourteen Words,” or simply the number “14.”

  30. 30
    Mary G says:

    @Mike J: I never beat anyone with my arthritic hand with the two torn tendons! You made my day!

  31. 31
    TenguPhule says:

    @SFAW:

    Obviously I was worng.

    Yes, ewe were.

  32. 32
    TenguPhule says:

    @mai naem mobile:

    Jeffy Sessions, Sheriff of Nuttingham who steals from the poor to give to the rich.

    Wrong one, that’s Manchin.

    Sessions is the one trying to kill or imprison the colored folk.

  33. 33
    Adam L Silverman says:

    He may have gotten confused and thought he was speaking at Richard Mack’s Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association.

    This was clearly a call out to the constitutional sheriff and posse comitatus fetishists that like to play footsie with the extreme right folks.

  34. 34
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    This was clearly a call out to the constitutional sheriff and posse comitatus fetishists that like to play footsie with the extreme right folks.

    And those are some serious nutballs. As in backing Trump to the bitter end crazy.

  35. 35
    Mary G says:

    There is a reason that the Sheriff of Nottingham is the bad guy in Robin Hood, the Sharif in “Rock the Casbah” same, and that Bob Marley wanted to make it clear that though he did shoot the Sheriff, the deputy’s death is a bum rap.

  36. 36
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): The fasces shows up in a lot of old American government iconography predating fascism as we know it. That said, this organization seems to have been founded in 1940, so, uhhhh…

  37. 37
    Niles says:

    Even Obama has used the term “Anglo-American” in referring to our legal heritage.

  38. 38
    TenguPhule says:

    @Niles:

    Even Obama has used the term “Anglo-American” in referring to our legal heritage.

    Under any other administration I’d call this an innocuous historical footnote; in the current context, my “benefit of the doubt” reserves are pretty well depleted.

    Because we know what and who you are, Niles.

  39. 39
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    Propane Jane is a damn National Treasure. And one of my go-to rebuttals for everyone who whines about how Twitter is so useless.

  40. 40
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: Yep.

  41. 41
    rikyrah says:

    He is the muthaphuckin’ KKKeebler Elf

  42. 42

    On the ‘common law’ part, one of the white supremacist creeds is that all of the good parts of modern law, everything we think of as ‘justice’, like juries, is from English common law. It’s part of their belief that white Anglo-Saxons are the only race that moves civilization forward.

  43. 43
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    @Niles: You do know that this is exactly how Dog Whistling works, right? Wording is chosen because it has just enough plausible deniability that someone like you will rally to it’s defense and provide cover.

  44. 44
  45. 45
    gkoutnik says:

    Sorry to get meta, but is this in any way related to the probably origins of the 2nd Amendment: an assurance to the South that they could keep their armed militias so they could continue to protect themselves from slave uprisings? Anglo-American, indeed.

  46. 46
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Niles:

    Even Obama has used the term “Anglo-American” in referring to our legal heritage.

    The quote is not “legal heritage.” It’s “law enforcement.”

    Bring us a quote from Obama talking about the “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.” We’ll wait here while you locate that.

  47. 47
    efgoldman says:

    @JPL:

    >Where’s Robin Hood?

    He’s being deported. We’ll have none of that “rob from the rich” bullshit ’round heyah.

  48. 48
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Mary G: Smart parents. They must be so disappointed in him.

  49. 49
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Niles:

    A lawyer who doesn’t understand the difference between our legal heritage and law enforcement?

    You must be one crappy lawyer. Have you been disbarred yet for conflating police officers and judges?

  50. 50
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Mary G: Those poor parents, they must feel they have failed. I would.

  51. 51
    efgoldman says:

    @Amaranthine RBG:

    This is just dumb on so many levels.

    How that fucking Evil Leprechaun sumbitch hasn’t been disbarred….

  52. 52
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    @Niles:
    Not in reference to sheriffs, he didn’t.

  53. 53
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    I read the story. His parents raised him as a Democrat, but his military service in Iraq made him a Republican; he was angered by Democrats’ failure to support the war.

  54. 54
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Amir Khalid: in 2007– that’s some dedication to a lost cause.

    Also he “chose to become a Christian”, sounds like at around the same time. Sounds like a quarter-life identity crisis

  55. 55

    Maybe somebody can put up a new thread, everything here is about pie.

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    that’s some dedication to a lost cause.

    Something for which many republicans are known 🤔

  56. 56
    Gravenstone says:

    Way o/t and much more uplifting. Robert Plant started a brief US tour last week. I just saw a couple videos from it (hello ubiquitous recording devices), and damn but he sounds good. Seriously debating grabbing tickets to the Chicago or Minneapolis shows next week.

  57. 57
    zhena gogolia says:

    I think Frasier’s brother should go back to Seattle.

  58. 58
    Niles says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    “The word sheriff is a contraction of the term “shire reeve”. The term, from the Old English scīrgerefa, designated a royal official responsible for keeping the peace (a “reeve”) throughout a shire or county on behalf of the king.[2] The term was preserved in England notwithstanding the Norman Conquest. From the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, the term spread to several other regions, at an early point to Scotland, latterly to Ireland and to the United States.”

  59. 59
    efgoldman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    This was clearly a call out to the constitutional sheriff and posse comitatus fetishists that like to play footsie with the extreme right folks.

    Speaking of which (coming at this from a tangent….)
    I had too much time on my hands, computerless over the weekend, so I binged lawnorder reruns.
    They rebroadcast an early episode, maybe fifth season, in which the bad guys were an East coast version of the Bundy gang.
    At the (inevitable) arraignment scene. the head wacko started bleating about the gold fringe on the courtroom flag.
    Ahead of their time

  60. 60

    @zhena gogolia: he has a funeral to plan after all 😕

  61. 61
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @gkoutnik: The modern constitutional sheriff and extreme, and quite unorthodox, understanding of the county sheriff and his or her role is actually partially rooted in one of the extreme strains within the Anti-Federalist movement at the 2nd founding in the 1790s. I refer to it as radical localism. I wrote about it here:
    https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/06/14/some-thoughts-on-todays-shootings/

    We have a deep seated tradition of civic engagement that refers back to and is rooted in political violence. The first use of stand your ground as a defense was from the 1790s in Philadelphia. It was related to and rooted in this tradition. In this case a radical localist – an extreme, minority offshoot of the anti-Federalists – member of a citizen militia decide to use his firearm in self defense while posting political handbills. His defense argument – that he had an enumerated right to self defense through using his firearm – was rejected by the court. The actual coverage of the event and trial from one of the local Philadelphia papers at the time is attached as a pdf at the bottom of the post.

    The reason we have so much stochastic violence and terrorism is because we’re Americans. We have a civic inheritance that includes the justifications for it. Including that of the radical localist offshoot of the anti-Federalists that teach us that all government above the municipal level is always potentially tyrannical and the purpose of the armed citizen, as part of the citizen militia, is to provide a check on tyrannical government. We are the inheritors of a revolutionary state and society. And the inheritors of political traditions that are rooted in the revolutionary politics of the Founding – the Federalists, the anti-Federalists, and the radical localists. Each had different understandings and views of the citizen militia, of the proper role for an armed citizenry, but each were reflections of and responses to the revolutionary ethos that led to the split with Britain and the founding of the US.

  62. 62
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: His law license is in Alabama. Nuff said.

  63. 63
    Steeplejack says:

    Where is Corner Stone? I need to take a consult on a little bit of MSNBC Kremlinology. To wit, Olivia Nuzzi (Washington correspondent for New York magazine) resurfaced just now on Chris Hayes’s show. She was a regular guest on a lot of the MSNBC shows until October, when there was a little kerfuffle about her being a little too chummy with Breitbart creature and alt-right performance artist Milo Yiannopoulos. This is the first time I’ve seen her since then. I wonder what happened to rehabilitate her.

  64. 64
    germy says:

    AG Sessions: "Though many Southerners try to say otherwise—and I love my people—slavery was the cause of the war." pic.twitter.com/2wMkxFfHtv— Chris Geidner (@chrisgeidner) February 12, 2018

  65. 65
    raven says:

    @Amir Khalid: Those pesky ROE didn’t let the kill every fuckng thing that moved. Most but not everything.

  66. 66
    germy says:

    @Steeplejack: I don’t trust her.

  67. 67
    efgoldman says:

    @germy: It was, but not in the way KKKeebler Leprechaun assumes.

    There was the small matter of secession.
    And the other small matter of attacking the Union

  68. 68
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: I remember that episode. Caught them all at a machine shop printing neo-NAZI flyers on mimeograph machines if I’m remembering correctly.

    They did a pretty good job of showing just how annoyingly pedantic these folks are when dealing with actual, legal authorities. I have friends, and some former students, who are cops. They always say the same thing about knowing when they get calls for certain addresses or certain license plates came over the radio that they needed to call the sheriff’s department. Because the folks involved only recognize the authority of the sheriff. In a few places I’ve lived and taught, where the sheriff was only responsible for the jail and security at county facilities, it is a bit of a stretch for that department.

  69. 69
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steeplejack: FEMA reeducation camp in an abandoned Wal-Mart in Texas. Originally set up as part of jade helm. Never forget!

  70. 70
    Gravenstone says:

    @Niles: Thought you were leaving, Felecia? Bye!

  71. 71
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @germy: He’s more honest than Gen Kelly.

  72. 72
    laura says:

    @Gravenstone: Get. Those. Tickets !!!11!!!
    He toured with Allison Krauss a few years back and just tore it up. Get on it.

  73. 73
    raven says:

    @Steeplejack: She’s been on a lot for the last few weeks.

  74. 74
    B.B.A. says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Connecticut has abolished sheriffs outright. If they move there they can do whatever they want.

  75. 75
    raven says:

    @laura: And John Paul Jones has worked with Gillian Welch and David Rawlings quite a bit. I got tickets for Jorma in a couple of week!

  76. 76
    efgoldman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I remember that episode. Caught them all at a machine shop printing neo-NAZI flyers on mimeograph machines if I’m remembering correctly.

    Different ones. This is the one started with the wackos robbing an armored car and killing a guard.
    BTW, one of the cable nets started last week right from the beginning (1990). I was startled that every bartender in every bar scene lit up a cigarette. My daughter (b. 1981) even more surprised – no smoking in bars or restaurants, really, in her memory, in MA

  77. 77
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: Was Briscoe in this one?

  78. 78
    efgoldman says:

    @B.B.A.:

    Connecticut has abolished sheriffs outright.

    Their whole function in MA is to maintain the county jails. Oh, and patronage – always patronage.

  79. 79
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @B.B.A.: Might be a good way to get all these folks in one place then wall them in.

  80. 80
    Aleta says:

    Sessions is just too too ugly inside.
    I feel like this antidote.

    The Bittersweet Beauty of Adam Rippon
    How much an out gay Olympian could mean to a kid now—or to a 34-year-old who’s been waiting for it his whole life.

    https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2018/02/adam-rippon-gay-olympic-athletes

  81. 81
    guachi says:

    @Mary G: Despite similarities in pronunciation, the words sheriff and sharif are not related in any way whatsoever.

    As mentioned above, the word sheriff is derived entirely from Old English (unusually, considering how many government words are Norman or French) and sharif is derived from the verb sharafa – grace or honor (so sharif basically means honorable). Though mushrif is a word with similar in meaning to sheriff and is also derived from the same root as sharif. It basically means overseer.

  82. 82
    efgoldman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Was Briscoe in this one?

    Yup. One of his first(*). Logan was still his partner. Also appears that it was Van Buren’s first season

    (*)Even though I had the original (off) Broadway cast album decades ago, I still can’t believe he was the kid who sang “Try to Remember” in The Fantasticks

  83. 83
    encephalopath says:

    The LGM people had a good go at the remarks this morning. Apparently there is some essay that all the sheriff offices are very fond of that tries to trace their history to English common law and Germanic this and that. It all sounds very Aryan to me. We can all just ignore the slave patrols and the Pinkertons as the origins of law enforcement in the US.

    See this example from Oklahoma: http://creekcountysheriff.com/page.php?id=8

    The office of sheriff is one of antiquity. It is the oldest law enforcement office known within the common-law system and it had always been accorded great dignity and high trust. For the most part, the office of sheriff evolved out of necessity. Were it not for laws which require enforcing, there would have been no necessity for the sheriff. There would have been no need for the development of police administration, criminology, criminologists, etc. This is not the case, however. Man learned quite early that all is not orderly in the universe. All times and all places have generated those who covet the property of their neighbors and who are willing to expropriate this property by any means. As such, man’s quest for equity and order gave birth to the office of sheriff, the history of which begins in the Old Testament and continues through the annals of Judeo-Christian tradition. Indeed, there is no honorable law enforcement authority in Anglo-American law as ancient as that of the county sheriff. And today, as in the past, the county sheriff is a peace officer entrusted with the maintenance of law and order and order and the preservation of domestic tranquility.

    Sheriffs have served and protected the English-speaking peoples for a thousand years. The office of sheriff and the law enforcement, judicial and correctional functions he performs are more than 1000 years old. The office of sheriff dates back at least to the reign of Alfred the Great of England, and some scholars even argue that the office of sheriff was first created during the Roman occupation of England.

    Around 500 AD, Germanic tribes from Europe began an invasion of Celtic England which eventually led over the centuries to the consolidation of Anglo-Saxon England as a unified kingdom under Alfred the Great late in the 9th century. Alfred divided England into geographic units called “shires”, or counties.

    In 1066, William the Conqueror defeated the Anglo-Saxons and instituted his own Norman government in England. Both under the Anglo-Saxons and under the Normans, the King of England appointed a representative called a “reeve” to act on behalf of the king in each shire or county. The “Shire-reeve” of King’s representative in each county became the sheriff as the English language changed over the years. The shire-reeve or sheriff was the chief law enforcement officer of each county in the year 1000AD. He still had the same function in Oklahoma in the year 2013.

    I can’t find a citation on any of the LEO websites for where this text originated, but Sessions appears to be pandering to his audience with the language he used in his speech.

  84. 84

    I want to wish everyone well till we meet again. Adieu.

  85. 85
    Steeplejack says:

    @raven:

    Which shows? I typically watch only the evening block.

  86. 86
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: They were bitching about the gold fringe on the flag in court?

  87. 87
    B.B.A. says:

    @Mary G: On the other hand, Blazing Saddles.

  88. 88
    laura says:

    @raven: The spouse is all about Jorma, but hates crowds, so I have gotten to see Hot Tuna electric the last 2 Hardly, Strictly Bluegrasses, and usually, Dave Rawlins Machine or GW plays.
    Have a swell Jorma -I was secretly sad that when you were in Pasadena, that your brother’s band didn’t open for Todd Rundgren who played within days of your Rose Bowl. That was a show!

  89. 89
    efgoldman says:

    Time to eat brownies

    No, not the Alice B Toklas recipe

  90. 90
    TS says:

    Never, have I heard common law referred to as anglo american law – for starters – common law is of UK origin, NEVER called anglo law and NEVER with american added – The UK has no constitution – their history of legalese – common law – determines all legal issues that aren’t included in legislation

  91. 91
    efgoldman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    They were bitching about the gold fringe on the flag in court?

    Affirmative. It was just a passing moment which helped establish what assholes they were

  92. 92
    SFAW says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Yes, ewe were.

    I’m a little disappointed. I would think the appropriate response would have been:

    “Yes, your wrong.”

  93. 93
    raven says:

    @laura: Jorma is playing a really small joint here, maybe 200 people tops. HI band actually played “The Rose” in Pasadena two days after we left. He gave me a really great sweatshirt from there.

  94. 94
    raven says:

    @Steeplejack: Those are the shows I’ve seen her on. She’s pretty striking so it’s easy to notice.

  95. 95
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: I remember that episode.

  96. 96
  97. 97
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Niles:

    Oh, look, an unrelated Wikipedia article rather than your promised quote of President Obama referring to our “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.”

    How quaint.

  98. 98
    SFAW says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    but why not?

    Because he remembers “The Trouble With Tribbles”?

  99. 99
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Jiminy Christmas.

    Are we allowed to say that now? I thought only Merry Christmas had been authorized.

  100. 100
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mary G: Conservative gay man running as a Republican. I will never understand that.

  101. 101
  102. 102
    efgoldman says:

    @SFAW:

    Because he remembers “The Trouble With Tribbles”?

    I do! My granddaughter got introduced to it in the last month or so. Amused her a great deal
    She’s also been introduced to Dark Vader and Ham Solo

  103. 103
    SFAW says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I thought only Merry Christmas had been authorized.

    Mnem was saying it in Norwegian or some such. (“Yumpin’ yiminy!!!”)

  104. 104
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Sorry to see you go.

  105. 105
    WaterGirl says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Pics or it didn’t happen!

  106. 106
    dmsilev says:

    @WaterGirl: I believe ‘Jiminy Holidays’ is allowed.

  107. 107

    @WaterGirl: you want me to post… pictures of gay republicans having money?

    ETA I see you responded to a different comment!

  108. 108
    WaterGirl says:

    @Steeplejack: Hey that’s different than the 14 words I found at one of the links above.

  109. 109
  110. 110
    SFAW says:

    @efgoldman:

    I don’t know if you saw the Star Trek reboot with Cumberbatch, but a tribble had a key part near the end.

    And, apropos of nothing in particular: in the first one of the reboot series, when all the cadets are getting assigned to starships, I coulda swore I heard the name “Vader” called out.

  111. 111
    efgoldman says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Conservative gay man running as a Republican.

    Does the Log Cabin society still exist? I would have thought, between Sanctus Ronaldus’ response to AIDS, and Hair Newetnik’s speakership, they’d have been read out of the party a long time ago.

  112. 112
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Jiminy Christmas.

    You’ll take any opportunity to mention a Disney character, won’t you? //

  113. 113
    NotMax says:

    @dmsilev

    Merry Crickets!

  114. 114
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Propane Jane nailed it on the proverbial head.

    Also, too, 2nd Amendment fetishism. The NRA’s loud silence in the wake of the murder of Philando Castile, about HIS right to keep and bear arms, is damning.

  115. 115
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Gin & Tonic: @schrodingers_cat: Like G&T, I am saddened; I will miss you horribly.

  116. 116
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: and phony libertarians

  117. 117
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @efgoldman: When you think about it, their love of their money seems to trump the love of their own lives. Which makes them GOP naturals.

  118. 118
    SFAW says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    likewise, best wishes s_c.

    Is her departure related to something specific? Or did she just get fed up? (I’m a day late and a dollar short, as usual.)

  119. 119
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @WaterGirl: Oh hell, I said Happy Christmas last year (as my British grandfather did when I was a tot).

  120. 120

    @efgoldman: I mean Peter Thiel spoke at the RNC.

  121. 121
    WaterGirl says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I can’t tell for sure whether you are just saying good night or if you are upset about something. Hoping it’s the former.

    @Aleta: I read that from your link in an earlier thread today. A touching and well-written story. thanks again for the link.

  122. 122

    @SFAW: no idea, i’d guess something to do with the DACA thread, but obviously she can speak for herself.

  123. 123
    efgoldman says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:

    I am saddened; I will miss you horribly.

    What’d I miss? Someone drive an old, reliable regular away? Shit.

  124. 124
    WaterGirl says:

    @efgoldman: I hope you brought enough brownies for everyone. Surely you’re teaching the 4-year-old that little rule? Best to lead by example. :-) She’s also old enough for one of my mom’s cardinal rules: If you’re the one that cuts the cake (or whatever), the other person gets the choice of which one they take.

  125. 125
    Jay says:

    @Niles:

    Being able to hear “dogwhistling” means:

    A) You are a racist,

    B) You’ve been paying attention as far back as the Southern Strategy,

    Using “dogwhistles” on the otherhand makes you just another Nazi.

  126. 126
    SFAW says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I want to wish everyone well till we meet again. Adieu.

    Be well, take care. I hope you return, and soon.

  127. 127
    WaterGirl says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Now that you mention it, I’m not sure which is more of a rarity – a mean person on the internet that goes away or a gay republican who does not have money…

  128. 128
    NotMax says:

    @schrodingers_cat

    ‘Sari’ to read that, if it means what it seems to.

  129. 129
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @SFAW:@NotMax: Let’s all hope it’s a brief break from online communities.

  130. 130
    NotMax says:

    @WaterGirl

    In the latter case can we say they have extra deplorable income?

  131. 131
    dmsilev says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Sorry to hear that. Be well, and hopefully come back soon.

  132. 132
    WaterGirl says:

    @efgoldman: Damn you for making me google!

    Jan 18, 2018 – President Trump congratulated the Log Cabin Republicans on their 40th anniversary in a letter this week. (SAD.)

  133. 133

    @WaterGirl: mean person going away. Completely contrary to human nature.

  134. 134
    WaterGirl says:

    I am appreciating all the fun and clever variations in response to the Jiminy Christmas question. I would reply to all of you but FYWP would punish me horribly for having more than 3 links.

  135. 135
    gene108 says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    @Mary G: Those poor parents, they must feel they have failed. I would.

    Seems like their kid had a moment that he reacted to what he perceived liberals were doing wrong (calling Bush,Jr’s invasion of Iraq, in 2007, a failure, after he served their) and jumped to the otherside.

    He may have another come to Jesus moment, and go back to being a Democrat…who knows…

    Or he’ll go all in – despite his upbringing, like Stephen Miller – and commit to the dark side, as his pathway to power.

    Even if his candidacy fails, wingnut welfare will take good care of him, so they can have someone to trot out, who escaped the Liberal Plantation. And that will create an incentive to ignore things that might be bothering him deep down, even if he thought he might want to change.

  136. 136

    In case anybody was worried the news in general wasn’t enough like the sort of thing you see in the background at the beginning of the movie…

    Just got a CNN news alert that says “eye worm leads to unique discovery.”

  137. 137
    Johnnybuck says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Say it aint so. A lot of people here respect your perspective. I’m mostly a lurker but I appreciate your commenting, and I hate to see you leave the field,

  138. 138
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    This toxic, malevolent, racist/misogynistic/homophobic administration cannot collapse in infamy and disgrace soon enough.

    Go Team Mueller!
    Go Team Blue 2018!

  139. 139
    NotMax says:

    @Major Major Major Major

    And to think people complain about having an earworm.

    ;)

  140. 140
    Anne Laurie says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Conservative gay man running as a Republican. I will never understand that.

    Look at Roy Cohn — or Peter Thiel.

    There’s a kind of Rich White Male who honestly believes (and sometimes even articulates) that his money outranks his gayness. As long as he’s properly “conservative” and doesn’t waste energy sympathizing with “those” gays… the limp-wristed, dark-complected, insufficiently-wealthy kind… *he* will be safe from the reeducation camps his dear companions keep “joking” about. And frequently it even works, for them individually! Just as long as they don’t get AIDS, or lose their fortune, or happen to be standing in the wrong place when “their party” decides a little public purge will be good politics…

    Hell, you’d think folks who consider themselves Classists would remember the example of Socrates, and be more careful around would-be tyrants. One day you’re the toast of the agora; the next, you’re a death-deserving heretic who corrupts young men…

  141. 141
    Mnemosyne says:

    @gene108:

    2007 is when it became obvious that Barack Obama was a rising star in the Democratic Party, and Hillary Clinton was widely thought to be a shoo-in as the Democratic nominee for president.

    Just sayin’.

  142. 142
    Jay says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Watergirl,

    How’s your puppy doing?

  143. 143
    WaterGirl says:

    I went to a meet and greet for one of the 5 democratic candidates for IL-13 congressional district. The bad pizza and mediocre chicken wings were not surprising, but the candidate was. Not quite sure what to make of him. When he gave his little speech, everything he said was progressive, but when you see him and talk to him he gives off kind of a smarmy used car salesman, republican vibe. And I was appalled when he introduced his wife. If you’ve ever seen a little girl about 5 years old preening for her dad, turning from side to side showing off her new dress or new shoes, that was what his wife did.

    At this point, anyone would be better than Rodney Davis, IL-13-Awful, so I will vote for this guy if that’s who wins the primary.

    But here’s my question: is it wrong to judge him for coming off as glib and smarmy even if he’s saying the right things? I think the wife’s childish display and obvious submission was the part that turned me off the most. It’s like my ears say one thing but I am having trouble dismissing the other stuff.

  144. 144
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @schrodingers_cat: You’re going? I hope not for long.

    Best of luck in the meantime.

  145. 145
    WaterGirl says:

    @Anne Laurie: You’re right. But anyone who thinks they hate THE OTHER GAY MEN, but not them, or that it’s okay that they hate all the other gay people, as long as they are personally treated okay… I think that person is a piece of shit.

  146. 146
    Mnemosyne says:

    @WaterGirl:

    If he’s one of 5 candidates, hopefully he won’t win the primary. I think it’s a bad idea to ignore your instincts, though. John Edwards got pretty darn far despite his deep sleaziness because he said the right things.

  147. 147
    WaterGirl says:

    @Jay: Thanks for asking. 2 weeks until the surgery for his torn ACL, and he’s holding his own. Tomorrow the two 4-month old pups arrive for their 10-day visit, and I have no idea how I can possibly keep him quiet once they arrive. I’m sure I’ll figure it out!

    I’ll be outnumbered, though. 24 paws vs. 2 hands. Pretty sure who’s gonna win this one.

    I told SC that I would share photos once the extra pups are here, so she better come back for those! :-)

  148. 148
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Yeah. The title on that one kept me from reading it. Too weird.

  149. 149
    Sm*t Cl*de says:

    @SFAW:
    Because he remembers “The Trouble With Tribbles”?

    A local troupe stages a season of “Summer StarTrek” — their response to “Shakespeare in the Park” — re-enacting a different classic episode each year. This year it was “Trouble with Tribbles”.
    They are not entirely straight-faced.

  150. 150
    Jay says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Peanut butter Kongs

  151. 151
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mnemosyne: Thanks for the reminder that it’s never good to ignore instincts. Mine have served me pretty well over the years.

    He gave his 5-year-old son the mic so he could tell a joke – and the kid did a pretty good job – but the kid felt like a prop to me, with the dad referencing his two sons about 10 times during his little speech.

  152. 152
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @WaterGirl: If the hair on the back of your neck is standing up or your bump of trouble has gone off, listen to them. It may turn out he’s just awkward and off putting in terms of personality, but a solid person. But it may be that your instincts telling you to create space and move to cover are correct.

    Break

    How’s your dog?

  153. 153
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @efgoldman:

    Went low-profile as Log Closet Republicans.

  154. 154
    Felanius Kootea says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Just catching up on the immigration thread below (I’m almost always behind on threads and they’re pretty much dead by the time I write, so I hope you see this). I sincerely hope that your goodbye isn’t related to people’s responses to that issue. I find it frustrating as well that many juicers have no idea of the hoops that legal immigrants have to jump through, Republicans’ hostility to both legal and illegal immigration, especially for people of color, and the fact that this new Dreamer proposal is a trap in ways they don’t fully understand. As you pointed out, there are lasting effects from the last time Democrats signed on to Republican thinking on immigration in an effort to compromise. Many of the deportations of Green Card holders under the Trump administration (e.g., the Polish doctor brought to the US when he was 3 who was convicted of a crime as a teenager) we are lamenting today come from Bill Clinton’s 1996 bill, which expanded the categories of illegal immigrants and deportable offenses for legal immigrants, and no one, Democrat or Republican, bothered to fix that once it was written into law. On the Democratic side that is mostly because even when Dem lawmakers are sympathetic, they are not usually recent immigrants and without gaming out the actual impact on people’s lives, it is possible to sign on to something that has horrendous consequences for immigrant families well into the future.

    My university has graduated doctors who are Dreamers. One of the things that we hope to do is get many of them into positions in Canada if there is no fix in sight for Dreamers. Canada is actually open to taking in accomplished Dreamers who are professionals and MDs definitely fall into that category. That fix doesn’t help everyone, of course. The current Republican proposal is mean-spirited and devious and will hurt Dreamers and non-Dreamers for years to come if the Democrats sign on.

  155. 155
    WaterGirl says:

    @Jay: Frozen! Of course, one of my dogs is allergic to peanut butter (and most things, easier to list what he isn’t allergic to) so treats around here are just dog food kibble and whipped cream. But maybe Tucker could get half-frozen whipped cream in a kong. Thanks for the idea.

  156. 156
    Mike in NC says:

    Watching a PBS program from earlier tonight on the militarization of our police, which no doubt will accelerate until Trump and Sessions.

  157. 157
    Miss Bianca says:

    @efgoldman: Only part of my life I ever had a serious smoking habit was when I was bar-tending back in the 80s. Because everyone around me was smoking, and I found that if I were smoking myself, it bothered me less.

    Was shocked when I went back to the midwest several years back (St Louis) and discovered people smoking in bars/restaurants. Colorado had banished smoking from its public places several years prior to that.

  158. 158
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Which link? What words? The only link I see is Citizen Alan’s, which goes to the same Wikipedia article.

  159. 159
    WaterGirl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks for the reminder to trust my instincts.

    Pup is okay, I bet you will have seen my comment at #155 before you see this.

  160. 160
    Another Scott says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Ditto. :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  161. 161
    Amir Khalid says:

    @WaterGirl:
    Something feels off about this candidate to you, so it’s entirely legitimate to learn more about him before you decide how to vote. For starters, I’d ask the organiser of the meet-&-greet and anyone else find who knows about him (to state the obvious).

  162. 162
    Jay says:

    @Felanius Kootea:

    If you need any help getting Dreamers to Canada, ( political pressure, sponsorship, etc), let me know.

  163. 163
    WaterGirl says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): Third line of the wikipedia article linked by Citizen Alan. I had done a quick scan, ignoring all the blah blah blah, looking for the 14 words, and I missed the one you had quoted that was in the first line. :-)

    It can be used to refer to a different 14-word slogan: “Because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish from the earth.”[6]

  164. 164
    Jay says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Good quality canned dog food, frozen.

  165. 165
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mike in NC: I like the way your sentence just trailed off; I was able to add “drop off the face of the earth”, which made me happy.

  166. 166
    NotMax says:

    @WaterGirl

    Apple butter?

  167. 167
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @WaterGirl: I did see 155. Glad the dog is doing well. Speaking of which I need to go rub some doggie bellies in a few minutes or I’m going to be in real trouble.

  168. 168
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jay: Can you do anything for national security professionals with lab mixes who teach martial art and will have a Jewish mother in tow?

    Asking for a friend.//

  169. 169
    B.B.A. says:

    News from South Africa: the ANC is calling on Jacob Zuma to resign the presidency. If he doesn’t step down now, parliament is likely to remove him in a couple of weeks.

  170. 170
    WaterGirl says:

    @NotMax: That might work! He is allergic to so many things, but apples and sugar aren’t on that very long list, so it could work.

  171. 171
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Reading is fundamental!

    That’s the first time I’ve seen the “white Aryan women” quote. It looks like an unsound Wikipedia edit to me. Trust me, when you’re down at the local klavern the 14 words you’ll get are the ones I quoted.

  172. 172
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Good news for people who like bad news about bad people

    GOP congressman pulls Issa into ugly divorce
    Rep. Mike Turner is seeking to depose his colleague in the messy situation.
    Mourad and Issa, who share Lebanese-American heritage, have been friends for two decades, said a source close to Mourad. The person said their relationship is just that — friendship — and nothing more.
    Issa, who has been married for 38 years and has one son, also rejected any suggestion of an inappropriate relationship with Mourad.
    “There is no truth whatsoever to these allegations,” Issa said in a statement. The San Diego Republican announced his retirement in January.[…]
    In his divorce filing, Turner said Mourad “is guilty of a fraudulent contract.” Turner has sought $1.5 million as a divorce settlement, according to several sources familiar with the case. It’s a surprising amount — roughly $100,000 per month from the date of their wedding to when Turner filed for divorce.
    In the past nine months, Turner has been tussling with Mourad over the disclosure of her assets. Mourad has sought to keep secret the details of a stock agreement with Tellurian Inc, a Houston-based natural gas company for which she serves as a lobbyist. Mourad is significantly wealthier than Turner: She is worth between $2.8 million and $9.8 million, while Turner is worth between $156,000 and $744,000, according to financial disclosure reports the couple filed with the House clerk’s office.

    Mike Turner is a gold-digging strumpet!
    ETA: Turner is from Ohio. I wonder how all the retired machinists getting coffee down to the McDonald’s by the interstate feel about him trying to cash in on an eighteen month marriage.

  173. 173
    NotMax says:

    @Adam L. Silverman

    and will have a Jewish mother in tow

    Gives a whole new slant to your notices of exiting for belly rubs..

    (double) //

  174. 174
    WaterGirl says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): Yeah, going to the klan hangout, that won’t be happening anytime soon. :-)

    I think I did learn about the tattoo of “14” being a white supremacist on one of the cop shows. Must have fallen out of my ears while i slept. Speaking of sleeping, I am heading to bed. I’m thinking I need to cook a couple of meals before the pups arrive because I doubt I’ll have much time for cooking once the crazy starts.

  175. 175
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷 says:

    So I got my second jury summons in the last 2 years. I’ll have to start calling in to see if I’ll need to appear for about 2 weeks. I suspect I won’t have to appear like last time. Never even got called in.

  176. 176
    frosty says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Wait, what? You’re one of my favorite commenters. I hope this is temporary, but if not, best wishes to you.

  177. 177
    Jay says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I can ask around. ; )

  178. 178
    NotMax says:

    @Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito)

    Oh no! The universe is now hopeless?

    :)

  179. 179
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @WaterGirl: How is he with blueberries? They’re very good for dogs. Mine like them frozen, which is easy to do because I freeze a lot of them as they go into my protein smoothies.

  180. 180
    Brian Murphy says:

    Sessions is undoubtedly a racist, but even a broken clock is non-racist twice a day. “Anglo-American law” is a commonly used term of art, not a dogwhistle. There is a distinct tradition of law shared by England and America, and using that term is an accurate reflection of that history.

  181. 181
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @NotMax: Nope, those are reserved for the lab mixes.

  182. 182
    WaterGirl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I will check the list! That would be easy to put in a kong-like thing to make him work at getting them out.

    I am a blueberry girl myself.

  183. 183
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @NotMax:
    No, but that speech was a funi dubism anyway. (Not that those were always bad: “I do lots of sit-ups, push-ups, and I drink plenty of juice.” Vegeta to Cell when he asks how he became a super sayian).

  184. 184
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jay: You know how to reach me.

  185. 185
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I am a blueberry girl myself.

    I’ll update the file.

  186. 186
    Brian Murphy says:

    @TS:
    Have you been to law school?
    Maybe I heard the term “Anglo-American law” more because I went to school in Louisiana, so the distinction between French/civil law v. Anglo-American/common law was pretty important.
    Also, it is of distinctly English as opposed to “UK” origin. The latter refers to the union of England and Scotland, and Scotland’s law is more civil than common.

  187. 187
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @MisterForkbeard: FWIW, she is right on the immigration front.

  188. 188
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Brian Murphy: When I was in law school, the term we used was common law.

  189. 189
    Jay says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Yup, there’s lots of outsourcing these days, Private Companies, groups looking for researchers and advisors,

    I’ll keep my eyes open and listen to my contacts.

  190. 190
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: She’s not wrong, but she’s also not necessarily righ in total. She’s right that the consequences for Dreamers and other immigrants are all really bad. We agree with her.

    The thrust of the pushback I. the thread (from what I remember) was that she mischaracterized Betty’s position pretty badly and didn’t recognize that we don’t have a lot of power to fix it stop the bad stuff NOW, but we might in the future.

    When it comes down to it, we’re all allies on this. So I hope SC comes back, as she has a lot of valuable insight even when I don’t entirely agree with her.

  191. 191
    Brian Murphy says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    As I said earlier, I was exposed to more comparative law because I went to school in Louisiana, and the term “Anglo-American” was used interchangeably with the term “common law.” I imagine in other states there is not much need to dwell on the historic origins of law, but it is more important if you want to understand the weird hybrid of civil/common law operative in Louisiana.

  192. 192
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jay: Shoot me a test message. I’ll send you a CV.

  193. 193
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @MisterForkbeard: I am saying that she is right that blowing up the system for the Dreamers is the wrong decision. Her method of argumentation is another thing – as is recognition and respect for her position as an immigrant and new citizen. She has a closer view of the process than many of us.

  194. 194
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Brian Murphy:

    “Anglo-American law” is a commonly used term of art, not a dogwhistle.

    Except Sessions didn’t say “Anglo-American law.” He said, “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.”

    IANAL, but I’m pretty sure that our system of laws and our law enforcement personnel are two completely different things.

  195. 195
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Brian Murphy: Then recognize your special place and don’t lecture everyone else about how common the term is.

    BTW even when I have seen the term Anglo-American in this context, it has been as an adjective modifying the term “common law.”

  196. 196
    Jay says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Easier if I just text you openings, postings, contacts, corps.

    I find CV’s and resume’s are rather limiting. Most people are much more, or less than that. I’ve read you for a long time and I get the “feeling” that you could do everything from teach at Royal Roads to run “Strategic Positioning” at BAE Canada.

    When I see an opening, I’ll text you, and talk to my contacts.

    Sadly, it’s all too often who you know, not what you know.

  197. 197
    Brian Murphy says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Sessions is a racist, but at this point you seem to be quibbling about details. Can one really dissect the distinctions between common law and common law institutions of “law enforcement” like the sheriff or the jury? Possibly, but it hardly seems a slam dunk. If the OP were a persuasive learned treatise on that distinction, I’d be knodding my head. But to people familiar with law (and especially comparative law), the OP fits the stereotype of the hyperventiating anti-racist liberal. Since I consider myself a reasonable anti-racist liberal (who despises Sessions in general as Attorney General), I thought I’d do a bit the police the excesses on my own side.

  198. 198
    Brian Murphy says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    My suspicion is that the term was more common when Sessions went to law school, but is currently less prominent. Either way, Louisiana has enough problems (including lots of racism) without painting everyone using that term as a white supremicist.

  199. 199
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Brian Murphy: You are new and we often get hit by trolls. Trust levels get low. I am a lawyer so I will buy your LA explanation. Non-lawyers may not.

  200. 200
    Brian Murphy says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Thank you. I’ve been following BJ for 6 years, and have commented on occasion. However, this particular post struck a nerve with me because of my own experience going to law school in Louisiana, where the term “Anglo-American law” was used constantly. If one cannot disagree with one’s own allies, then we only fulfill Jonah’s Goldberg’s preposterous theory of “liberal fascism.”

  201. 201
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Brian Murphy: Keep commenting. You can build trust.

  202. 202
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Brian Murphy:

    Sessions is a racist, but at this point you seem to be quibbling about details.

    Details matter. Context matters. Sessions was not just making general remarks for a general audience. He was speaking to a national conference of sheriffs and told them in unplanned remarks that they are part of the “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.”

    At the same time, he omitted a written line of the speech directed at American Indian tribal police.

    You are exactly the kind of useful idiot the Republicans depend on to get their message across since you refuse to look at the full context of what Sessions said and did and focus solely on the part that seemed normal to you.

  203. 203
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne: This was not helpful. I hope you found it cathartic – because it did little otherwise.

  204. 204
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    I found it pretty helpful. It put Murphy’s Law in his place.

  205. 205
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Details and context matter. The problem is not that Sessions used the word “Anglo-American.” It’s the context and details of HOW and WHEN he used it that are the problem.

    So, no, I didn’t find the hand-waving of “quibbling about details” to be either helpful or productive. At all.

  206. 206
    Brian Murphy says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Ommitting a line about tribal police seems appalling, given the federal government’s disrespect of tribal police in “Indian Country” (another term of art). See… it’s possible to say that a racist POS like Sessions was racist in one particular part of his speech without requiring the conclusion that everything he said was racist.
    I don’t see the relevance of whether this term was planned or unplanned. You didn’t address the substance of my earlier post about the tenuous distinction between Anglo-American traditions of “law enforcement” and the “common law.” Speaking as someone with a passing familiarity with comparative law, I can definitely imagine them being intertwined. OTOH, I’m not dogmatic about the issue. If you think there’s an important distinction there, then argue your case.

  207. 207
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne: Okay. Kick him away. Well done you. I guess. The fact that his explanation actually is viable to someone who has been to law school doesn’t matter to you is totes cool.

    I am going to bed. Shun who you want.

  208. 208
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Brian Murphy:

    Ommitting a line about tribal police seems appalling, given the federal government’s disrespect of tribal police in “Indian Country” (another term of art). See… it’s possible to say that a racist POS like Sessions was racist in one particular part of his speech without requiring the conclusion that everything he said was racist.

    So you don’t find it curious — at all — that Sessions would remove a scripted line about tribal police and add an unscripted line about the “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.” Just a big co-inkydink that happened to occur in the same speech.

    I don’t see the relevance of whether this term was planned or unplanned.

    Again: you see no relevance to Sessions removing praise of American Indian tribal police and adding a phrase about “Anglo-American tradition of law enforcement” to the same speech. All just a coincidence, nothing to see here.

    You didn’t address the substance of my earlier post about the tenuous distinction between Anglo-American traditions of “law enforcement” and the “common law.”

    Again: context. Sessions was not speaking to lawyers. He was speaking to the American Sheriff’s Association. Do you really see no harm in telling sheriffs that they should regard themselves as equals to Anglo-American law itself?

    Have we perhaps had some recent problems in the United States with street cops appointing themselves as judge, jury, and executioners of citizens accused of breaking the law that might make it a bad idea to encourage sheriffs to regard themselves as not just upholders of common law, but the same thing as common law?

  209. 209
    eemom says:

    What a delightful clusterfuck.

    Here’s the deal, Brian Murphy — your explanation about Louisiana is fine, but the fact is that “Anglo-American law” is NOT a “commonly used term of art” in the other 49 states. Rather, as Omnes noted, the “commonly used term of art” is “common law.”

    Also, Sessions is from Alabama, not Louisiana. So your “point” eludes me.

  210. 210
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Brian Murphy:

    Here’s what Sessions was supposed to say, as provided to the press before the speech:

    I want to close by reiterating my deep appreciation and profound thanks to all the women and men of law enforcement — federal, state, local, and tribal. I want to thank every sheriff in America.

    Since our founding, the independently elected Sheriff has been seen as the people’s protector, who keeps law enforcement close to and amenable to the people. The Sheriff is a critical part of our legal heritage.

    Here’s what he changed it to on the fly:

    I want to close by reiterating my deep appreciation and profound thanks to all the women and men of law enforcement — federal, state, and local, and tribal. I want to thank every sheriff in America.

    Since our founding, the independently elected Sheriff has been seen as the people’s protector, who keeps law enforcement close to and amenable to the people. The Sheriff is a critical part of our legal heritage Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.

    But I’m sure it was all a coincidence. Or an accident. He totally didn’t mean to do it.

  211. 211
    Brian Murphy says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    The relevance of his omitting the reference to tribal police was that he was racist, and the relevance of his reference to Anglo-American law was that he was deploying an old school term for what is commonly called the “common law” today. Your question implies conspiratorial thinking… “if someone is a racist, then everything they say that can be plausibly construed as racist is necessarily racist.” However, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
    In regards to his sheriff comment, he was getting at the fact that the chief law enforcement officer of a district is elected. As someone skeptical of election of law enforcement officers, DAs, and judges, I can see the downside. However, from a popular sovereignty perspective, it’s not absurd to argue that the popular election of such of such officials is a crucial part of our Anglo-American/common law heritage, alongside the jury system, due process, and other elements of the common law.

  212. 212
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Brian Murphy:

    However, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    And sometimes it’s a big brown dick.

    It’s a not a big leap to think that Sessions, whom you’ve acknowledged is a racist, said so knowing full well that it’s an obscure term of art that could be used as a dog whistle. I mean come on.

  213. 213
    Brian Murphy says:

    @eemom:
    Perhaps I wasn’t being clear, but my impression is that “Anglo-American law” is a somewhat old school term because the current law school curriculum is more professionally (as opposed to historically) focused. I have zero doubts that Session was exposed to it when he went to law school. Unfortunately, current law students not going to Louisiana law schools are allowed to remain oblivious to legal history because there has been a shift to a “professional” curriculum. Sessions is a racist, but legal scholars should understand the heritage of the “common law” as it is rooted in English history, and complaining that Sessions used the term only paints you as a Know-nothing.

  214. 214
    eemom says:

    @Brian Murphy:

    yep, you went to law school, all right.

  215. 215
    Steeplejack says:

    @Brian Murphy:

    [. . .] the relevance of his reference to Anglo-American law was that he was deploying an old school term for what is commonly called the “common law” today.

    But why diverge from his prepared speech? That is at least part of the fishy smell here.

    ETA: And, as others have pointed out, Sessions’s reference was not to “Anglo-American law” but to our “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.”

  216. 216
    Gvg says:

    @Brian Murphy: probably dead, but it’s a dog whistle not a cigar because he is talking about sherrif’s not all law enforcement. Because so many of the white supremist radicals are currently making a big deal about sherrif’s no responsible leader of any justice department would single them out for that specific praise. They could be praised in many genuine ways using different words. In many areas it’s not called a sherrif but has the same type of responsibility.
    Now that I have written out this point, I think Session’s always meant to say this racist dog whistle and his staff who helped him write it knew it tho whoever added tribal may have hoped either to mitigate it or just help deny it.
    A responsible AG would have said something nice about law enforcement, but nothing close to this.

    The existence of the sovereign citizens and akin types makes this whole speech inflammatory. The guy is not just a racist, he is a bomb throwing frothing lunatic racist.

  217. 217
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jay: Tracking and sitting by. Thanks!

  218. 218
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Brian Murphy:

    So why change the phrase from “legal heritage” to “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement”?

    There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

  219. 219
    J R in WV says:

    @Brian Murphy:

    Sure the thread is dead, but want to add to the Anglo-American law/law enforcement issues.

    Anglo-American common law is only the foundation of states’ law east of the Mississippi. In the area purchased from France by Jefferson, French Napoleonic is the foundation… remember parishes in Louisana? In the area stolen/purchased from Mexico, much of the common law is based upon Spanish law, which I learned about from a lawyer/engineer friend who worked for the Army Corp of Engineering out west long ago.

    This is perhaps (I’s not really sure) more relevant to property rights, mineral rights, and mining law than to other parts of the law universe, as that’s what I was consulting him about specifically. We have a small camp in SE AZ that is in an area being minutely examined by Anglo-American Mining in hopes of them starting a hugely profitable mining operation in our front yard.

    We suspect they hope molybdenum will be found in the deep underground. Core drilling this summer, have been flying sensors all around the last year or so. Out west you don’t own the underground parts of your property, ever. We do live just past an old silver mining ghost town, and they did find minerals in those mines that contain molybdenum, which is one of the most valuable metals you can mine this side of gold and platinum. Way better for the company than mere copper. Worse for everyone else.

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