What Consequences?

Yesterday, SoS Tillerson said the following about Russian meddling in the election:

Indeed, the Republican said he believed Russia was already making such an attempt to meddle in the upcoming elections.

“I think it’s important we just continue to say to Russia, ‘Look, you think we don’t see what you’re doing. We do see it, and you need to stop. If you don’t, you’re going to just continue to invite consequences for yourself,’” he explained.

What consequences? President Дональд Trumpski won’t even put in place the current sanctions the house and senate passed. We’re giving the Russians a green light to fuck with our elections because we won’t do a damned thing about it and that is largely because our Republican leaders think it might benefit them.






76 replies
  1. 1
    Mike R says:

    Consequences, perhaps a scathing yelp review.

  2. 2

    we

    Republicans. Unfortunately, they’re the ones with the power to decide right now.

  3. 3
    Chyron HR says:

    Greenwald would be ashamed of your neo-McCarthyism if he knew who you were.

  4. 4
    kindness says:

    Who is this ‘we’ you speak of Kemosabe? Certainly isn’t us.

  5. 5
    JPL says:

    OT Did Rob Porter write the speech Trump is delivering at the prayer breakfast?

  6. 6
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    Here come the Russians to the National Prayer Breakfast. One of the things that Putin wants to do is to unite conservative Christians across the world under his banner, which happens to be that of the Russian Orthodox Church. Most aren’t going to go for that, of course, so he soft-pedals the specifics. And Torshin and Butina are big friends of the NRA. Another weird connection is that there are a lot of fundamentalist churches evangelizing in the countries of the former Soviet Union.

  7. 7
    Kay says:

    According to DHS, they breached some unknown small number of state election systems- tried to get in 21, succeeded on some number less than 21.

    I think they’re waiting until they actually start changing vote totals to act. Not that anyone would tell us until a year after the election if they DID change vote totals. News you can use!

    Voters will literally be the last to know.

  8. 8
    Kay says:

    2 White House officials insisted that Mr. Porter had misled Mr. Kelly and several other aides about the severity of the allegations.

    Oh, so he’s just a liar. That’s the norm in the Trump Administration so that’s probably what happened.

    They must have some kind of crazy reverse lie detector at some stage in the hiring process – pathological lying is a job requirement. They all lie constantly. To the public, to the President, to each other.

  9. 9
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    Yesterday I saw a story that DHS admits the Russians broke into voting systems in several states in 2016. I believe this was reported before, but they won’t tell us which states, I’m guessing PA, WI, MI. We may never know what happened in 2016.

  10. 10
    jonas says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: During the heyday of the Cold War, it wasn’t so much Soviet communism’s authoritarian/antidemocratic character that disturbed a lot of people on the American right, it was its militant atheism. Hence adding “under God” to the Pledge of Allegiance, and “In God We Trust” on our coinage in the 50’s, etc. Now that Russia is an anti-liberal, authoritarian BUT increasingly Christian (if Orthodox) fundamentalist and intolerant society, conservatives here see a lot to like.

  11. 11
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: The article I read says they “found no evidence” that vote totals were changed. That’s not nearly enough information. For the past year and a half, we’ve been fed a steady stream of lies about what happened in 2016:

    Russians? What Russians? Okay, there were Russians, but only a handful on social media — nobody saw their content, and they didn’t mess with the election systems at all. Okay, millions of people saw their propaganda, and they tried to compromise the election systems, but weren’t able to. Okay, they were able to, but just in SOME states, and there’s no evidence vote totals were changed.

    I know I sound like a conspiracy kook, but I don’t believe any of this bullshit anymore. We’re obviously not going to get an accounting of what happened until the beneficiaries no longer control the investigation process. But let’s all resolve to clamor for a resolution IF we get another shot at holding committee hearings, etc. It’s kind of important! :)

  12. 12
    JPL says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: GA is discussing adding a paper trail, which our Sec. of State is trying to block because it’s a liberal take over. Pretty sure that GA is on that list.

  13. 13
    JPL says:

    @Betty Cracker: I had read that they did not investigate whether or not votes were changed. You don’t sound like a conspiracy kook at all, imo.

  14. 14
    germy says:

    When you’ve lost Joe….

    If Russia meddled in an election that helped elect a Democrat, Republicans would be screaming in rage. Those same Republicans should be outraged that Russia helped elect a Republican.

    Why? Because a foreign entity meddling in our elections is just plain wrong. Period.

    — Joe Walsh (@WalshFreedom) February 7, 2018

  15. 15
    mai naem mobile says:

    @Kay: so Kelly couldn’t call the FBI to ask about Porter’s background check? The same asshole who was accusing of Fredericka Wilson of being at some event when she wasn’t even elected ar that point can’t be bothered to get off his ass and get the FBI background check on Porter?

  16. 16
    Sherparick says:

    @jonas: I think what bothered them the most was the confiscation of property and redistribution thing. Now Putin and gang are crony capitalists plutocrats, they find themselves very simpatico. Putin is not much different in his governing philosophy then Pinochet, and the Right loved Pinochet since he knew how to deal with the hippies and trouble makers. Milton Friedman was one of his biggest fans and considered Chile a very “free” country under Pinochet. This generation of the Right has been loving Putin for a long time.

  17. 17
    gene108 says:

    Hey Rex, the State Department is responsible for enforcing “consequences” on Russia for election meddling.

    Too bad you don’t know anybody, who works there.

  18. 18
    Jeffro says:

    @Betty Cracker: It’s not being a conspiracy kook – it’s the facts. It has been one revelation after the next, always in the direction of Russia having done more, always in the direction of those actions being done in concert with the Trumpov campaign. Always.

    I believe it’s a Joseph Heller quote (and a great Godfathers song): but…”Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you”. Slightly revised: “Just because it feels kooky and surreal doesn’t mean that the president* isn’t a tool for, and sympathizer of, a hostile foreign power.”

  19. 19
    bemused says:

    @Kay:

    What a cya cop out. Kelly and other aides had the option of doing better vetting but evidently couldn’t be bothered. It was Kelly’s responsibility but vetting isn’t a priority in this WH.

  20. 20

    @germy: For a conservative, nothing is “just plain wrong”. Everything is relative to factional affiliation. This is because conservatism derives from the divine right of kings. Today, the king is a faction instead of an individual. This is why there can be no such thing as “respectable” conservatism. Conservatism is definitionally and comprehensively unethical. It has to be completely driven out of the public discourse. Equality before the law, or you don’t get to play.

  21. 21
    GregB says:

    Contemporary conservative logic: The media is overwhelmingly liberal and that constitutes a massive opinion changing tool of propaganda for the left

    Also too: Russian efforts at using American media outlets for propaganda during the election didn’t change anyone’s mind.

  22. 22

    We are like Germany in WWI, T is the Kaiser and instead of Ludendorf and Hindenburg we have 3 generals.

  23. 23
    WaterGirl says:

    @Kay:

    …misled Mr. Kelly and several other aides about the severity of the allegations.

    I guess the means it’s okay to beat your wife wives if it’s only a little bit, or a medium amount of beating?

  24. 24
    PPCLI says:

    @bemused:
    @Kay:

    Translated from TrumpAdminSpeak: “The FBI told us all of the details that had come out in the interviews with his ex-es, so we knew everything. That is why Porter couldn’t get a security clearance. But he assured us that both f*cking b**ches were crazy, and so we were good. Also we didn’t know that there were pictures. So we were double-good.”

  25. 25
    Chief Oshkosh says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I know I sound like a conspiracy kook, but I don’t believe any of this bullshit anymore.

    You don’t sound like a kook to me. Your statement reminds me of what some people were saying right before the Pentagon Papers came out…

  26. 26
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Kay: that just means they didn’t know there were pictures v

  27. 27
    Chief Oshkosh says:

    @mai naem mobile:

    can’t be bothered to get off his ass

    I see what you did there.

  28. 28
    Bobby Thomson says:

    You’re all missing the point, which is that people are giving Orrin Hatch a sad by accurately reporting that his friend savagely beat women. The nerve.

  29. 29
    The Moar You Know says:

    The Russians are fucking with every democracy in North America and Europe, everyone knows it, and there have been no consequences at all. The only nation to so far acknowledge it and take even tiny steps to mitigate it seems to be France.

    If I’m Uncle Vlad, that just means I keep upping my game until I get some pushback.

    We handed them the social media needed to hang us all. Think some guy said something about this in a book once.

  30. 30
    rikyrah says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I know I sound like a conspiracy kook, but I don’t believe any of this bullshit anymore.

    I don’t think you sound like a conspiracy kook. I’ll match you and raise you a conspiracy.
    I think the trial run for this was the Kansas state elections. I stand by that.

  31. 31
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Let’s just say the obvious. Republicans are okay with Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election because it benefited Republicans. So there will be no consequences for Russia as long as Republicans perceive that they will benefit from Russian interference. Russians hacked both the DNC and the RNC but only put out negative information on the DNC. We all know why.

  32. 32
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    2 White House officials insisted that Mr. Porter had misled Mr. Kelly and several other aides about the severity of the allegations

    Kay,

    you can’t believe that bullshyt.
    You’re the Chief of Staff, and the muthaphucka that reads everything that is put in front of the President of the United States..

    Can’t get a Permanent Security Clearance…
    and, you don’t pick up the phone to ASK WHY?

    COME ON, NOW!

  33. 33
    JPL says:

    @rikyrah: What the statement indicates is that they didn’t know there were pictures. The restraining order was just normal, right!!

  34. 34
    japa21 says:

    @germy: Joe has been pretty much anti-Trump for a long time. Trust me, if he was still in Congress he would be doing the same the rest of the GOP is.

    @JPL: Isn’t it interesting that the people who are most in favor of strict voter ID rules to protect the integrity of our electoral process (complaining of a problem that doesn’t exist) are so against a paper trail which would be the greatest protection of the integrity of our electoral process?

  35. 35
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Let’s just say the obvious. Republicans are okay with Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election because it benefited Republicans.

    This is pretty much what Mitch McConnell said to Obama in August, 2016 (IIRC). Paul Ryan was in the room, as were I believe Republican members of the Gang of Eight. This has has no discernible effect on Mitch McConnell’s reputation as a master legislator or Paul Ryan’s carefully crafted image as an earnest budget wonk.

  36. 36
    NotMax says:

    @jonas

    and “In God We Trust” on our coinage in the 50’s

    Small historical discrepancy. While “In God We Trust” was officially codified as a national motto during the 50s, the phrase had been appearing on U.S. coins (as directed by Treasury Secretary Salmon P. Chase) since passage of the Coinage Act of 1864, eventually showing up on all U.S. coins by the 1930s. The official adoption of the 50s placed it as a motto on paper money as well.

  37. 37

    I fear this administration never faces consequences. For instance, if Mueller is fired, the plan seems to be to take to the streets in mass demonstrations. And….then what?

  38. 38
    bystander says:

    @schrodingers_cat: It reminds me more of You Nazty Spy with twitler portrayed by Moe, Kelly is Curly and Sara is Larry.

  39. 39
    RAM says:

    Since Trump’s ultimate goal seems to be to turn the U.S. over to Russia, why not invite the Russians to do a big military parade? They’ve got a lot of experience doing them, after all. And then he could use the Russian Army to do security at his campaign events. Win-win!

  40. 40
    The Moar You Know says:

    For instance, if Mueller is fired, the plan seems to be to take to the streets in mass demonstrations. And….then what?

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Vote in 2018. Vote in 2020. Look. Mueller is not going to save us. Everyone here really needs to understand that. He can bring charges against Trump but it’s not like Trump goes to court, he goes to Congress…which will let him walk. So if we want to be rid of this long national embarrassment, we need to vote every Republican we can out of office. There were never any other options.

  41. 41
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    Please. Kelly’s a documented liar. I don’t believe him as far as I can throw him. He invented that smear against the House member and it was so detailed! WTF?

    I just think it’s funny that in Trumpworld “the guy is a liar!” is a DEFENSE.

  42. 42
    MomSense says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    The article I read says they “found no evidence” that vote totals were changed. That’s not nearly enough information. For the past year and a half, we’ve been fed a steady stream of lies about what happened in 2016:

    Every time I read that excuse I want to scream. There is literally no way to know whether they did or not so of course there will be no evidence.

    The other thing that bothers me is that if voter registration data was tampered with and people showed up to vote, found they were not listed, and had to vote provisional or couldn’t vote at all — that changed the vote totals!

    If, like in one county in NC, the poll workers couldn’t tell if people had voted or not and had to slow down the process or pause the voting for awhile while they figured it out then there were people who couldn’t wait and who left without voting. That changed the vote totals!

    There are a million scenarios for how messing with voter registration data can change the vote totals. For years I’ve done voter protection and I just cannot believe how uninformed the authorities and journalists are about this issue.

  43. 43
    NotMax says:

    @The Moar You Know

    The only nation to so far acknowledge it and take even tiny steps to mitigate it seems to be France.

    Montenegro pushed back several years ago as Russia was working to co-opt elections there. One unfortunate but predictable result was that it allowed Russia to refine tactics and methodology.

  44. 44
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @WaterGirl: The stick can’t be wider than your thumb.

  45. 45
    Kay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I think you could get state elections systems information by suing in a state court.

    You wouldn’t have to make it woo-woo and Jill Stein-ish. DHS says there was interference and some systems were breached. Sue for that. If they know systems were breached there’s a record. They will defend on “classified” but at least you’d get judicial review of what should and shouldn’t be released to the public.

  46. 46
    Immanentize says:

    @Kay: @rikyrah:

    2 White House officials insisted that Mr. Porter had misled Mr. Kelly and several other aides about the severity of the allegations

    The officials? Hope Hicks and John Kelly

  47. 47
    Redshift says:

    @Betty Cracker: My response to the “no proof vote totals were changed” idiots is “if you were told hackers had broken into your bank, would you say there’s no need to do anything unless it can be proven they stole money?”

  48. 48
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @jonas: And its stated intention to destroy capitalism. Now that their oligarch-kleptocracy is openly capitalist, everything’s fine.

  49. 49
    Redshift says:

    @rikyrah: I agree with that tweet from yesterday translating “we didn’t know how serious it was” as “we didn’t know there were pictures.”

  50. 50
    Kay says:

    @Immanentize:

    “2 White House officials” is meaningless now. They all lie constantly. What’s the point of even asking them anything? We all find out they lied in a month and nothing happens to them anyway.

    They often lie when they don’t have to. Sanders-Huckabee will say fucking anything up there. Jake Tapper was right. They are wasting our time.

  51. 51
    glory b says:

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t think you are either. I’ll say it again, I find it strange that three other statewide Dems won (Attorney General, Auditor General and Treasurer) in 2016, but the Dem candidates for president and senator lost.

    I don’t believe for one minute that the Pennsyltuckians split their ballots. Some of them would have to, n order to get this result.

    Some people were very concerned about the president and senator, not so much the Auditor General, etc.

  52. 52
    bluefoot says:

    @Betty Cracker: You definitely don’t sound like a conspiracy kook. I know someone in IT systems security who attends DefCon every year. He told me a few years ago about risks to voting and possible meddling from outside the US. At the time, I thought he sounded a little out there. Boy was I wrong.

  53. 53
    captnkurt says:

    I can predict to the day when the Republicans will develop a new-found concern over Russian interference. On Wednesday, November 7, 2018, after a shit-ton of Democrats flip safe Republican seats nationwide. Then it will be, “Whoa, whoa, whoa! We can’t just accept these obviously fraudulent election results! Clearly Russians tipped this towards the Dems!”

  54. 54
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @captnkurt: Nah, they’ll blame it on the secret white vans full of illegal immigrant voters.

  55. 55
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): It doesn’t even have to get to the point where Mueller is fired. What would happen if Trump defies Mueller’s subpoena? This administration shows no sign of being subjected to anything it doesn’t like. To White House aides and the Republican Congress, Trump is above the law.

  56. 56
    Immanentize says:

    @Kay: I totally agree. It is so odd to watch. It’s like everything I learned about how to behave in the world is rejected by these people. And, like so many others, it is mostly befuddling — I feel like I am concussed by the lies and manipulations.

  57. 57
    Kay says:

    @Immanentize:

    I had to take this training session on child abuse. So they’ve found that kids who witness other people being abused have nearly the same level of harm as kids who are abused themselves. They’re trying to figure out if this has any application to abusive environments – what happens to the people who work in an environment like the Michigan State physician situation? Can a really toxic environment be created that pulls people in and makes them as sick as the abuser? Is THAT why “good people” do nothing? Are they changing in response to the sick environment?

    I kept thinking of the Trump Administration. The sense of unreality when they talk, like it doesn’t matter what anyone says anymore.

  58. 58
    JR says:

    Old friend GWB is making the case for Russian interference. Maybe I’m just too cynical but I wonder if the neoconservative wing is making a play for a re-takeover of the party.

  59. 59
    Leto says:

    @bemused: Actually I think it was Reince Pribus’ fault. Kelly was DHS secretary at the time of wife abuser Porter hiring. Though that doesn’t excuse Gen Racist that once he learned of said issue that he still kept him on, still allowed him to access classified information, and then kept on defending him as a “man of integrity”.

    Anyone in the media (hahahahahaha) going to make hay that both Kushner and Porter don’t have clearances, a year out, and are still allowed access to classified information? That people in the administration are still probably using Gmail/Yahoo accounts for private communications (that was reported on about 6 months back but has fallen off the radar amid the hourly tsunami of shit continuing to come out)?

    Oh, what’s that? Hillary’s emails? Oh, ok…

  60. 60
    glory b says:

    @mai naem mobile: I’m still mad about her saying she deserved an apology for him maligning her character and he refused.

    Even after the videotape. And most in our media haven’t called him on that yet.

  61. 61
    bemused says:

    @Leto:

    Before this WH, Chief of Staff and other WH staff plus the president wouldn’t have the issue of working with people who didn’t have full security clearance. This WH doesn’t give a rat’s ass. Kelly should have been on top of why Porter’s still didn’t have it. He just take Porter’s word women exaggerated or something. Kelly didn’t care.

  62. 62
    trollhattan says:

    @JPL:
    Does it including pounding the Lord into the faces of non-believers? Then yes.

  63. 63
    Timurid says:

    Vetting? That’s something you do with your cat, right?

  64. 64
    tobie says:

    @glory b: PA desperately needs an election audit. In 2016, you could opt for straight party voting, which makes it even less likely that people spit their vote in the election. Maybe Gov Wolf is doing something behind the scenes…I sense zero urgency coming from him.

    @JR: I wonder if W is speaking up because he also has questions about Russian involvement in the primaries that ended up eliminating his brother. We’ve scarcely scratched the surface of Russian interference in 2016.

  65. 65
    J R in WV says:

    @mai naem mobile:

    so Kelly couldn’t call the FBI to ask about Porter’s background check? The same asshole who was accusing of Fredericka Wilson of being at some event when she wasn’t even elected ar [sic] that point can’t be bothered to get off his ass and get the FBI background check on Porter?

    No, he couldn’t be bothered. Kelly is a dirtbag piece of crap who managed to conceal his dirtbaggery from the boards who select flag-grade officers, or from the members who cared. I have no doubt that there are a lot of officers who are dirtbags but who are fully aware that being a dirtbag inhibits a successful military career. Those guys Kelly was probably pretty tight with… he probably would have gotten along with the Navy guys who were working with Fat Leonard until they all got court-martialed for accepting bribes to steer work to Leonard’s yards in the South Pacific.

  66. 66

    @Timurid: And then the cat scratches the living hell out of you. To the background music of hissing.

  67. 67
    jl says:

    DJT should be impeached, convicted and removed from office for ‘political crimes committed directly against the people’ (Hamilton’s definition of impeachable crimes, which I might be paraphrasing rather than quoting).

    I know won’t happen with this Congress, but I think statement above is true and we should try to persuade independents and salvageable GOpers to take it out on the rats at the mid terms.

    If negligence in protecting electoral integrity is not a political crime committed directly against the people, I don’t know what could be.

  68. 68
    MomSense says:

    @rikyrah:

    You’re the Chief of Staff, and the muthaphucka that reads everything that is put in front of the President of the United States..

    Can’t get a Permanent Security Clearance…
    and, you don’t pick up the phone to ASK WHY?

    Maybe he was just too lazy to get off his couch to do it.

  69. 69
    J R in WV says:

    @bystander:

    @schrodingers_cat: It reminds me more of You Nazty Spy with twitler portrayed by Moe, Kelly is Curly and Sara is Larry.

    Yeh, good one, but Larry was always better looking than Possum Queen. Better spoken too!! ;-)

  70. 70
    Mnemosyne says:

    @captnkurt:

    On Wednesday, November 7, 2018, after a shit-ton of Democrats flip safe Republican seats nationwide. Then it will be, “Whoa, whoa, whoa! We can’t just accept these obviously fraudulent election results! Clearly Russians tipped this towards the Dems!”

    This. This is their plan, such as it is. They will claim that being voted out is the proof they need of Russian interference, and will refuse to seat any Democrats.

    The one game in which Republicans are experts are “heads I win, tails you lose.”

  71. 71
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @J R in WV: Harpo is better spoken than her

  72. 72

    Scary thing: I’ve heard that Putin has been winning rightwingers over because of his gay bashing. Russia has also been tightening up abortion laws. So it’s looking like we may someday have the category “premature anti-Putin” for rightwingers, for those who didn’t think Putin was cool before X (where X is whatever it is that finally shows that Russia isn’t America’s BFF.

  73. 73
    TenguPhule says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    What would happen if Trump defies Mueller’s subpoena?

    Months of delay as the lawyers fight it up to the Supreme Court.

  74. 74
    TenguPhule says:

    @jl:

    and we should try to persuade independents and salvageable GOpers to take it out on the rats at the mid terms.

    If they haven’t turned by now, Fuck em. They’re not ever going to.

    All Republicans at this time, all third party who insist on not siding with the Ds in Democracy’s darkest hour, are the enemy as much as the Trumpsters. No Quarter to any of them.

  75. 75
    Ruckus says:

    @bemused:
    Not to defend Kelly, because he surly doesn’t deserve it, but he may be thinking it’s like the military, people are sort of checked at each step of the ladder. Of course he’s not in the military any longer, this isn’t grade school and he’s supposed to be better than that.
    Shame that he isn’t close to grade school levels of competency.

  76. 76
    J R in WV says:

    @MomSense:

    ‘….For years I’ve done voter protection and I just cannot believe how uninformed the authorities and journalists are about this issue.”

    Uninformed? Willfully pretending to be ignorant, more like, isn’t it? How obviously they’re lying about everything voting or election related… grrr!

    We have a Republican AG AND a Republican Sec of State in WV, how much investigating into election returns do you think those guys are going to do? Am I the only person in WV and all the surrounding states to suspect the recent Republican totals out of WV are at least partly fraudlent? Can’t be just me!?!? ;-(

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