Open Thread: The Struggle Continues

If you thought it was going to be easy, you weren’t paying attention.


LEST WE FORGET… Mitch McConnell is an evil, evil excuse for a human being:


Also, let’s keep reminding people what a LOSING LUZER Trump has shown himself to be…

108 replies
  1. 1
    HAL says:

    Ok, so if dems didn’t cooperate and the government shutdown continued, how long before republicans folded? Days, weeks? Would dems still have the high ground at the end? I get why people are disappointed but this just felt like the wrong hill to die on.

    Also, wonkette’s profile of Glenn Greenwald is pretty amusing.

  2. 2
    Lyrebird says:

    @HAL: I don’t totally understand your point, but oh yes, that Wonkette summary is excellent.

    I LOVE Evan Hurst, and in a fair world where we didn’t have anyone practicing conversion therapy anymore, I would try to make a joke about trying to un-gay-marry him, but since we haven’t reached that world, I should not. Should just donate I guess.

  3. 3
    West of the Cascades says:

    I love Ron Wyden – have gone from being a lukewarm supporter to utterly proud he’s my Senator (have always been utterly proud of Jeff Merkley).

  4. 4

    All it took was three days to get six years of CHIP. That seems like a pretty good deal.

  5. 5
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    The fact that Donald was denied his adulation party at Mar-A-Lago is a very good thing. This causes him real pain, which is wholly deserved.

  6. 6
    guachi says:

    It’s kind of fun watching Senators Schumer, Flake, and Graham continually dunking on Trump and no one coming to his defense.

  7. 7
    HAL says:

    @HAL: I should say Wonkette’s breakdown of the Glenn Greenwald profile

  8. 8
    Kay says:

    Well, the Democrats didn’t get anything but the Republicans didn’t really get anything either. They got the government funded for a short period but that’s really the status quo. The Republicans blocked Dreamer fix but it’s hard to say that’s a win for them (although it is a loss for Dems) because the Republicans claim they want a Dreamer fix.

    What a shitty negotiation all around. One side lost and the other side won, except they won nothing other than a rhetorical point, which is, I guess, “we were lying about wanting a Dreamer fix” :)

  9. 9
    WaterGirl says:

    @Kay: You don’t think getting CHIP for 6 years was “getting anything”? I think that’s a big Joe Biden deal, particularly since now they can’t present us with Sophie’s choice again: save the children or save the Dreamers.

  10. 10
    Kay says:

    You can have a loss for one side without a win for the other in negotiations and this is one of those rare, but horrible, situations.

    Democrats lost on Dreamers and Republicans won…nothing.

    I feel …oddly ambivalent about this non-result and I bet they do too :)

  11. 11
    Roger Moore says:

    The off-the-wall thought about this: remember that Stephen Miller is likely to be in charge of Trump’s SOTU address. The rhetoric is going to be really hateful.

  12. 12
    MJS says:

    @Kay: Why are you discounting the funding of CHIP for 6 years?

  13. 13
    WaterGirl says:

    It’s been 5 days since OzarkHillbilly’s son was hit by the car and he was leaving for NOLA. Still keeping you in our hearts, Ozark.

  14. 14
    Kay says:


    No, I don’t, because CHIP is the status quo as is “funding the government”. I know it’s unsatisfying but that’s how I see it.

    Republicans can’t really claim a “win” either, unless “winning” is the government (barely) functioning for a short period.

    You know how you have win/win or win/lose? You can have lose/no result. That’s what this is.

  15. 15
    Eolirin says:

    @HAL: There’s no reason to believe they ever would have folded, which is the real problem.

  16. 16

    I consider this a huge win. 3 weeks is not a long time. At all. McConnell is going to have to come right back to these negotiations having lost his best bargaining chip. All that harping he did on putting CHIP at risk to get DACA? Gone. He’s given that up. We got CHIP and a gigantically strengthened negotiating position for an issue that is barely even going to pause. McConnell got… maybe a week of not having to worry about this.

    Schumer ROLLED him. We won categorically.

  17. 17
    Aleta says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: And people who hoped 100,000 would buy them a word with T have lost to the house edge.

  18. 18
    MJS says:

    @Kay: How you think funding CHIP was “the status quo” with this group of vile Republicans in charge is beyond me.

  19. 19
    Corner Stone says:

    I’m not sure how the Dems “got” CHIP? I am also not sure what it is about McConnell’s shameless history that makes anyone think extracting a DACA “promise” from him is useful. He will find some cowardly way to blow that deadline off, and never pay a price for it. At this point, IMO we have to view anything coming from McConnell as if he is Trump and we are a mom & pop family contractor. When he comes back with a 30-cents on the dollar offer for DACA, what then? Whine to the media that he doesn’t honor his promises?

  20. 20
    Betty Cracker says:

    I think it’s too soon to claim victory OR defeat. Glad CHiP got funded, but wasn’t that in the GOP’s shitty bill anyway, on account of its being revenue neutral/positive?

    Sure hope the Dems are willing to go to the mat for the folks in DACA status in February. Not sure they can because of wobbly red staters, but we’ll see, I guess.

  21. 21
    nonynony says:


    Democrats lost on Dreamers for 3 weeks and took CHIP off the table as a hostage for the next 6 years.

    Republicans got 3 weeks of the government continuing to function.

    I can see how if you look at this in isolation as a single battle, it looks like a big shrug. But as a fight in the ongoing “war”? Republicans just gave up their one rhetorical talking point and got essentially nothing in return for it (because nobody will credit them for keeping the government going for 3 weeks – that’s all the Democrats doing because Democrats are the ones who care about government). Democrats just got SCHIP renewed for their constituents and the Republicans had to “give that up” to get 3 weeks of government funding.

    It takes a lot of spinning to make this look bad for the Democrats IMO. If the CR had been for more than a month I could see the negatives, but that’s not the case.

  22. 22
    Kay says:


    Because the funding of CHIP is funding for an existing program. No one was saying they would overturn CHIP or eradicate it. They had to fund it eventually, just like Republicans had to fund the rest of the country eventually.

    The bar for these people’s performance just gets lower and lower. If I give Democrats a “win” for funding an existing program than I have to give Republicans a “win” for operating the government. I don’t think those are “wins” Sorry.

    I’m fine with what happened. I just think this whole analysis is insane. The objective was Dreamers, not “funding CHIP” or “opening the government”. Democrats lost on Dreamers, so that’s a loss. However, Republicans said they want a Dreamer deal so I don’t know how no deal is a win for them either.

  23. 23
    WaterGirl says:

    @Kay: I see what you’re saying, but until today we didn’t even have status quo. So that’s a victory, I think.

    To use the Monty Python reference, we weren’t just living in a shack a week ago, we were living in a hole in the ground. This seems like definite progress to me, though it took me a few minutes to see it that way.

  24. 24
    Corner Stone says:


    Republicans got 3 weeks of the government continuing to function.

    A 30 day CR failed in the Senate. Why would we give the R’s a three week spot of breathing room? This is where the pressure was applied. And now it’s gone. What do you think they are going to be doing these next 17 days? Sitting around a campfire roasting marshmallows?

  25. 25

    @Corner Stone:
    This deal funds CHIP for 6 years, and everything else for 3 weeks. That’s a ‘get’. The smart bet is that McConnell was lying about DACA, which means his best result is that in 3 weeks he faces another crisis exactly like this one, but loses the hostage he’s been threatening us with. Even if you concede to Kay’s reasoning that in an ideal world CHIP would never have been up for debate, putting McConnell in a much worse bargaining position in exchange for a negligibly short extension is fantastic.

  26. 26
    JMG says:

    To reiterate. We must steel ourselves to the likelihood the Republicans will never ever take any position on DACA that allows it to become law. I doubt they will ever allow a vote, as it would expose their position for what it is. A shutdown could last for months and that wouldn’t change. The powers of the minority only go so far. It can block things, but it can’t make positive things happen without help from the majority. Wailing that Chuck Schumer should do more is useless. Saying the Dems always sell out is even more useless. Yes, a sizable bloc of Democratic Senators won’t back another shutdown unless Republicans do something egregious (always a good bet) and if they do it won’t be for long. All the minority can do is make it clear to the public what the majority’s real position is and ask the voters “is that what you want?” Today the Democrats moved a little closer to making the Republican position clear. That’s their only real option.
    I know that means the Dreamers are screwed, and that’s awful. But they aren’t screwed because of Democrats. They were screwed by the voters on November 8, 2016.

  27. 27
    tobie says:

    What I’m still not getting is how Dems can use their leverage to get DACA taken care of before the next CR vote on Feb 8. They agreed to a compromise in which McConnell pledges to bring up a DACA bill after Feb 8.

  28. 28
    WaterGirl says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Sure hope the Dems are willing to go to the mat for the folks in DACA status in February.

    It seems to me that the Feb 8 deadline is a clear signal – today Dems set the table for that exact showdown on Feb 8. And they have The Turtle on record with a promise.

    If The Turtle reneges, then we have him on record and standing our ground on DACA is a whole lot less risky than it was last week.

  29. 29
    kindness says:

    I was one who wanted Democrats to hold out for both Dreamers & S CHIP but I’ll take this getting CHIP and in 3 weeks I’ll take the Dreamers. And since we will only be dealing with one thing, let’s give Dreamers the same citizenship rights we have. Not a limited network set of rights.

  30. 30

    @Kay: You know how I know that this was win for the Ds. The negative Nellies* have multiplied in the comment section, many new nyms here, saying basically the same thing, Ds suck.

    * I don’t count you in them because your response is well reasoned even though I may not agree with it 100%.

  31. 31
    Corner Stone says:

    The R’s, as a whole, do not want a DACA deal. The WH certainly does not. Taking them at their word that they do is a mistake because when they come back their bottom line will be something untenable to people who care about immigration reform.

  32. 32
    Downpuppy says:

    McConnell’s tweet really is insane. Not just Joker – It’s what Lex Luthor did with 2 missiles in Superman, and many other villains have done to just about every hero ever.

  33. 33
    Corner Stone says:


    If The Turtle reneges, then we have him on record

    And then what? We shame him? Point out he’s a lying hypocrite? Tell his momma on him?
    US voters like the idea of DACA, but when it’s between a rock and a hard place they have less favor for actual DACA. That’s one thing this short term shutdown proved. During negotiations he took a call from ZEGS and then killed any potential deals. He knows what his voters want. McConnell can not be shamed.

  34. 34
    The Moar You Know says:

    This was the wrong fucking decision. The GOP shut it down, let them fix their caucus issues.

    I had a parent with substance abuse issues. You all know what an enabler is, yes? Well, we’ve just enabled the GOP to carry on, and next time it will be worse. And next time, we will share the blame. That’s what happens to enablers. You become complicit.

    This was a stupid, unforced error.

  35. 35
    MaryL says:

    @Corner Stone:

    When he comes back with a 30-cents on the dollar offer for DACA, what then? Whine to the media that he doesn’t honor his promises?

    Yes? And to be honest, that’s still more of a win that the alternative, which is nothing. Republicans hold all three branches of government. We are in damage control for the next few months at least. It sucks and I hate it, but I think Schumer and Pelosi have done about as well as we have any right to expect.

  36. 36
    HeleninEire says:

    Lemme know when the effing US government is open for real. Moving apartments and I gotta renew my passport.
    Don’t wanna give them an address that is out of date by the time they send it back to me.

    In the meantime I’ll just use my Irish passport. Even though its illegal for me to travel to and from the US to do so. Do not care.

  37. 37
    Yarrow says:

    Looks like I missed an epic Balloon Juice clusterfuck. This seems like the best result the Dems could have gotten. I’m not unhappy with it at all.

  38. 38
    Kay says:


    Just take “victory” out of it. This is not a “victory” situation for either side, which is what happens sometimes. To everyone’s extreme confusion and discomfort.

    There’s several ways I could portray it. It’s a victory on CHIP and a victory on opening the government. That’s the win/win analysis. Or, I could say it’s a loss for Democrats on Dreamers, but not a “win” for Republicans on Dreamers because Republicans (maybe lying but who knows?) said they want a deal on Dreamers. Or I could just pick what I like from both columns, any random combo :)

    I think you guys are in the “mix ‘n match any random item” realm.

  39. 39
    MJS says:

    @Kay: “No one was saying they would eradicate CHIP or terminate it.” It’s a program that helps poor and lower middle class families, not exactly a priority for Republicans. And its funding lapsed what, 111 days ago? Not today, so no, it was not simply another victim of the shutdown. Regardless of what they were saying, Republicans were refusing to fund it, which is a pretty good way to eradicate a program. I guess I’d put the question to you this way, how long should Dems have allowed it to go without funding? And when do you think Republicans would have decided on their own to start funding it again?

  40. 40
    woodrowfan says:

    why “Tom ‘1924’ Cotton” What’s the 1924??

  41. 41
    danielx says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    This causes him real pain, which is wholly deserved makes me very happy.

  42. 42
    HeleninEire says:

    @Lyrebird: Been reading Wonkette for…4?? years now and this weekend I decided to start an ongoing contribution. I am a moocher no more. Also Rebecca sent me a lovely personal thank you. I know it wasn’t a rote answer cuz there were too many typos!

  43. 43
    danielx says:


    Maybe because that’s when he thinks the US was at its greatest?

  44. 44
    cain says:

    @West of the Cascades:

    I love Ron Wyden – have gone from being a lukewarm supporter to utterly proud he’s my Senator (have always been utterly proud of Jeff Merkley).

    Really? The guy is a total policy geek. His positions especially in high tech are very sane and thoughtful. We need more people like this guy in the senate. There would be like no drama at all. A really good man. I’m glad that I was able to meet both my senators. Ron and Jeff will always be my senators even though I”m out here in Colorado now.

  45. 45
    Kay says:


    I don’t have any strong, clear feelings about this result, because it’s not a strong, clear result. I would! I would like to! I am extremely opinionated! But this is mush. They ended up with mush on both sides. None of them will think they won and that’s because they didn’t.

  46. 46
    patroclus says:

    @HeleninEire: Not yet. They reached a “deal” but all that has really happened is a cloture vote. The Senate has yet to pass an actual CR bill, which is expected, but the news is reporting right now that it’s being held up by the WH. The House must then pass it and it must be signed by the POTUS. And we don’t know for sure as to whether it will or will not eliminate the House bill’s delays of Obamacare taxes. We’ll see. Stay tuned.

  47. 47
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @woodrowfan: 1924 was one of the years the US really brought the hammer down on immigration, though I guess you could also make a case for 1921 as the turning point.

  48. 48
    woodrowfan says:

    @danielx: ah, I bet it’s the 1924 Immigration Act. Cotton probbaly thinks it’s a model to follow…

  49. 49
    VincentN says:

    From purely an optics point of view, a short government shutdown shows the Democrats are willing to fight for the DREAMers with the concrete action of shutting down the government but also that they are willing to be reasonable by opening it up again after they’ve made their point without imperiling federal employees and all those who rely on the various government services that would have been shut down.

    And in 3 weeks if the government shuts down again it’s going to be much harder to argue that the Republicans didn’t know what to expect and now it’s their failure to come to a resolution that has led us to this unwanted place again. You get the ‘psychological pressure’ as it were of having 2 shutdowns with only 1 real shutdown occurring. Assuming that the 2nd shutdown is even longer if it happens.

    So I get the point that nothing really ‘substantive’ happened that wouldn’t have otherwise happened if the Senate had just accepted the offer two days ago but part of politics is perception and tactically this works out very well. 3 weeks for Republicans of fearing another government shutdown or 3 weeks of suffering through an actual shutdown takes you to pretty much the same place without the nasty parts.

  50. 50
  51. 51
    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon says:

    @West of the Cascades: Ditto – I feel the same way.

  52. 52
    Kay says:


    Again, I don’t mean to seem ungenerous but if the new “win” is Congress funds existing programs and the government stays open – if that’s the “wins” I’m counting for each side, then I think maybe you should consider if that belongs in a “win/loss” analysis at all, or of that should just be in “doing their jobs”.

    It’s good Congress funded an existing program. I won’t give you “win” for this! That’s as far as I go! :)

    I also won’t give Republicans “win” for blocking Dreamer fix for the very good reason that Republicans ENTERED this negotiation saying they wanted a deal on Dreamers.

  53. 53
    Kay says:

    Part of the reason I’m not all worked up is I don’t think a budget impasse in January will change one vote in November. I never thought it would and I still don’t.

  54. 54
    geg6 says:


    CHIP was about to run out here in PA. I consider this a win. And we live to fight another day on DACA. In 17 days, to be precise.

  55. 55
    geg6 says:


    That is not what I have read. The vote has to happen before the next CR or shutdown.

  56. 56
    HeleninEire says:

    Oh and by the way. Remember I told you about my health scare a week and a half ago? Just got the bill. €150 for the ambulance. €400 for the hospital. I was in the hospital for 7 hours. I had an MRI, an EKG, boatloads of blood tests. Every hour they came around and took my pulse and my blood pressure. I saw three nurses and one resident. Oh, and twice in the 7 hours they came around with a cart of sandwiches and tea. €400.

  57. 57
    KithKanan says:

    @Kay: FWIW, after the GOP passed the Fuck California Tax Act of 2017, I hold it against any Dem who even gives the GOP a vote for naming a goddamn post office.

    The government should be shut down until the election, or until the GOP nukes the filibuster, because they shouldn’t be getting a single Dem vote for anything, no matter how important.

  58. 58

    @Kay: I think the Republicans were willing to let that existing program slide into nonexistence, though. They’ve already tried multiple times to destroy existing healthcare programs; I’m not sure that CHIP renewal was guaranteed.

  59. 59
    MaryL says:

    @Kay: I think what it comes down to is that there is literally no way for Dems to extract a real win while we’re in the minority, if win is defined by improving the status quo. The best we can do is to improve the status quo and limit the amount of damage Republicans.

  60. 60
    VincentN says:

    @Kay: Yes, making someone do their damn job is not really a win but since that’s the state of the world we live in today I don’t see a problem with people finding a silver lining out of this whole mess.

  61. 61
    Spanky says:

    Did I miss the announcement that the House is passing CHIP funding?

    Not gonna call it a win/draw/whatever until that happens.

  62. 62
    MJS says:

    @Kay: You and I both believe that funding necessary programs that help the poor and lower middle class is “Congress doing its job”. Unfortunately, for at least the next 11 months, the people who control Congress do not agree with that assessment.

  63. 63

    @woodrowfan: Yes and it has WH blessings, then candidate T talked about it in his speech on immigration, September 2016. Getting immigration levels back to the historical norms was the dog whistle he used. To anyone who is acting surprised, my question is were they asleep during the campaign?

  64. 64
    Betty Cracker says:


    I also won’t give Republicans “win” for blocking Dreamer fix for the very good reason that Republicans ENTERED this negotiation saying they wanted a deal on Dreamers.

    Once the next shutdown (if any) plays out, that might be all we’ll have gained: clarity on the Republican position regarding Dreamers. And I’m afraid that clarity might consist of Republicans saying “fuck the Dreamers” unequivocally. (The anti-immigrant demagoguery they engaged in over the weekend shutdown kinda showed their hand, IMO.)

    Sure, it will be a demonstration that Republicans were lying when they said they wanted a Dreamer fix or that Trump was lying when he claimed to want a “bill of love,” but so what? They lie all the fucking time anyway!

    As for the CHIP program no longer being a hostage at the next stage of negotiations, I am 100% confident the Republicans will find a new way to demagogue the issue. My money is on “the troops” vs. “illegal aliens” to replace the CHIP kids.

  65. 65
    Weaselone says:

    If the shitgibbon busts up this deal, this shutdown really will be all on him.

  66. 66
    Gelfling 545 says:

    So my family member is in Puerto Rico doing legal aid work. Their team spent the week before departure partly in conference calls with various government entities. Her conclusion was that nobody had a clue. One agency told them that 50% of buildings had electricity and 30% didn’t. So many things mitigating against the residents there. Medicaid is apparently a block grant there and funded far below the amount given to states of similar population yet they pay FICA same as everybody. Apparently Trump’s big tax fiasco is also going to mske it more difficult for mainland businesses to locate there.

  67. 67
    Mnemosyne says:


    Or I could just pick what I like from both columns, any random combo :)

    But it’s not a random combo. The Republicans said that the Democrats had to choose either CHIP or DACA, no substitutions. The Dems got them to fund CHIP and agree to a vote on DACA in return for temporarily keeping the lights on. And I think you’re vastly underestimating the fact that CHIP expired three months ago and was going to cut people off starting 1/31. There was an actual ticking clock here.

    It’s an ugly victory for us, but it’s still a victory. We got what we wanted, and we wanted what we got.

  68. 68

    @Betty Cracker: Ds are playing from an inherently weak hand, Rs hold all the levers of power here. Its is frustrating but unless we win at least one house or both houses how can Ds affect substantive change. Given what they had, they did good.

  69. 69
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    My money is on “the troops” vs. “illegal aliens” to replace the CHIP kids.

    Of course, some of those are the exact same people since one of the things that qualifies a person for DACA is enlisting in the armed forces … 🤔

  70. 70
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Betty Cracker: From Jim Wright at Stonekettle Station on FB
    “If you believe you’re right, then your agenda should stand on its own merits, leave me and other veterans the hell out of it. If you want to ban immigrants from America or deport children or stone gay people to death or turn woman into incubators for Jesus or bomb the Middle East or strip mine national parks, then you either offer up a cogent defense of your idea or shut the fuck up. Don’t drag veterans into it. We’re not your goddamned hole card.”

  71. 71
    Corner Stone says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Polling for DACA is going to crater in the next 17 days. No one will want to shut down the govt if DACA fix does not happen as “promised”. Get ready for Willie Horton X10,000.

  72. 72
    Fair Economist says:


    If The Turtle reneges, then we have him on record and standing our ground on DACA is a whole lot less risky than it was last week.

    They won’t even be able to say Dems are demanding DACA for a CR because all we’ll be demanding is a *vote*. Probably some of the free Dem Senator votes will flip back to us.

  73. 73
    Dave says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: An ideal world doesn’t include Mitch McConnell as shift manager at an Arby’s let alone Senate Majority leader so I agree we shouldn’t judge outcomes in the short run based on an ideal or even sane world. Once Trump won the election and the GOP controlled the Congress active harm was built in. We need to work to change that so that we can judge wins on a better standard but in the meantime we should judge outcomes based on the realization that we are working to prevent harm and take tools for causing harm away with limited means to do so. Funding CHIP and removing it as a bargaining chip is a win. A stupid win that shouldn’t have to had happen but a win nonetheless.

  74. 74
    Mnemosyne says:


    At current exchange rates, that’s less than $500 for the hospital part. Pretty darn good!

  75. 75
    HeleninEire says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yup. Pretty happy about that. Would have been $20,000 in the US.

  76. 76
    retiredeng says:

    @Lyrebird: Evan is smart, good looking and nails all of his posts. Sometimes nails the targets to the wall!

    True story. I had been donating $50 a month to Wonkette but early last summer I got tripped up in the donate interface and ended up setting it to $550 by mistake. Rebecca emailed me almost immediately and asked if it was a mistake and offered to fix it. I told her I decided to let it stand but I’d not be doing more real soon. Her response was very grateful and that I could get anything in their list of freebies for letting the big donation stand. I asked for two “Literally Anyone 2020” hats which we have worn a lot to (mostly*) amazing responses. I’ll restart the $50 a month when the $550 runs out in June.

    * The most memorable negative response was an old witch shopkeeper on Martha’s Vineyard last August. Apparently, she was “not amused.” A better job for her would be at a dairy making buttermilk by just staring at it.

  77. 77
    Chyron HR says:

    @Corner Stone:

    And how is that different from what would happen if the shutdown continued for 17 days instead?

  78. 78
    HeleninEire says:

    @retiredeng: Yeah. Rebecca is who I want to be when I grow up. That she’s 13 years younger than me does not dissuade me. A girl can dream. About Shy and Donna Rose!

  79. 79
    SRW1 says:

    Never say the president didn’t pay any price. He had to forego his big 100k per person celebrity promotional appearance at Maralago last week-end.

    Dear Digby,

    the real price President Donald Jell-o Trumplestilzkin paid is that he’s now one golf round behind schedule.

  80. 80
    ruemara says:

    @Kay: I don’t normally utterly disagree with you, but that CHIP funding was not going to happen with Republicans. Getting it takes a burden off of thousands of families. Sorry, but this immigrant thinks that tactically, saving the child hostages was a good idea. I can deal with waiting on the rest.

  81. 81
    eric says:

    @ruemara: I agree. And the Vets versus the Dreamers will be mitigated by the dems again offering a bill to pay the “troops” during the shutdown (as done this time, and voted down by the GOP)

  82. 82
    Corner Stone says:

    “Democrats give in, and end the Govt shut down”
    /MTP Daily intro

  83. 83
    Corner Stone says:

    @Chyron HR: It suggests, to me at least, that Dems were not really ready to have this fight.

  84. 84
    catclub says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    All it took was three days to get six years of CHIP. That seems like a pretty good deal.

    can anyone point to where the version of CHIP that they got was different than under the previous pre-shutdown offer? I heard that various ACA poison pills were removed.

  85. 85
    SenyorDave says:

    Once again, the GOP goes where the Democrats will not go. My wife is not into politics, and she asked me the other day why the Democrats aren’t more aggressive. I said it was in part because the Republicans as a party will do anything to win, including intentionally harming people and the country. I don’t believe there could have been Democratic versions of Lee Atwater and Karl Rove. It is also the way the supporters differ. I think a lot of Republicans like authoritarian types, definitely not so much for Democrats.

    I hope the Democrats have some money in the bank to produce ads calling McConnell a liar if he doesn’t bring DACA to vote.

  86. 86
    WaterGirl says:

    @Kay: I appreciate the reply. I seldom disagree with you – most often you say what I am thinking, only about 10 times better. But on this one, I call it a win because we moved forward in the direction we wanted.

    You made me laugh on the random mix and match thing, though. I might resemble that remark.

  87. 87
    Corner Stone says:

    The Senate voted 81-18 on a short term spending bill to reopen the government and fund it for the next three weeks through February 8. The measure now heads to the House, and then finally to President Donald Trump for his signature.
    Only two Republicans — Sens. Rand Paul of Kentucky and Mike Lee of Utah — joined with 16 Democrats to vote no against the bill. Arizona Sen. John McCain was not present for the vote as he is back in his home state receiving treatment for brain cancer.

    Wonder why so many R’s voted for the end of the shutdown?

  88. 88
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @nonynony: I don’t think Dems “lost” on Dreamers. They got a qualified win: A written promise to vote on a clean DACA bill by the next CR.

    This is a significant win – if we get a vote, that’s basically as much as we can hope for. Either it passes (yes!) or it doesn’t (which is awful, but it means that we COULDN’T have magically forced Republicans to vote for it, and this way it’s very clue who the instigators are. They can’t pretend they wanted to pass it). If McConnell breaks that promise, THAT is the story for the next shutdown: McConnell caused a shutdown by breaking his own agreement, because he doesn’t want to keep the Dreamers here. In which case, Republicans also get the blame for something they were trying to blame on the Democrats.

    It’s significantly better than it was 3 days ago.

  89. 89
    Kathleen says:

    @Kay: How can you expect a clear strong result when one of the parties involved in negotiations is a criminal enterprise fueled by racism and hatred
    and who wants to destroy this country? Plus now poor, sick children are covered again?

  90. 90
    Eural Joiner says:

    Exactly! I’m really not getting this chicken little reaction I’m seeing in some comments. The GOP is in control and until November this is a pretty good get for the minority party.

  91. 91
    Kay says:


    I think they would have funded CHIP because there are tons and tons of Republican voters who depend on it, and also lots and lots of providers who want to, and should get paid.

    I’m okay with the result. You have to turn it over to Schumer because he’s what we got. I’d still rather bet on Schumer’s tactical plan than either Donald Trump’s or political media.

    Trump is sort of nice because you don’t have to think that much. The choices are so horrible the price of risk goes down :)

  92. 92
  93. 93
    Kathleen says:

    @Kay: Thank you for your reply. We will have to agree to disagree, because I think you are giving Republicans way too much credit. If they really care about their voters and providers they would have passed it. I think Dems are doing a great job with the hand they’ve been dealt.

  94. 94
    Kay says:


    In my opinion, Democrats should stop letting Republicans get away with the lie that their voters don’t use, support and rely upon Democratic programs.

    Yes, they do, and Republicans know it:

    Rob Portman
    1h1 hour ago
    Critically, this bill provides a long-term funding solution for #CHIP. This six-year CHIP extension is the longest since the program was enacted more than 20 years ago.

    Rob Portman RUNS on CHIP. In 2010 they ran on Medicare. Republicans don’t support these programs ideologically and they lie to their far Right base about them, but when it comes down to it they run on them. Because they’re popular and they know damn well that MOST people who rely on CHIP are not African Americans or Latinos but instead white people.

    We should point this out instead of helping Republicans pretend they don’t support safety net programs. They do and if they didn’t they wouldn’t get elected. That’s how popular these programs are.

  95. 95
    JaneSays says:

    @MisterForkbeard: Agree with this 100% – the big win we got from this bill was an on-the-record promise from the Majority Leader to move forward with legislation to resolve DACA. 6 years of funding for CHIP is fantastic, but it isn’t something that just got added in today – it was in the previous bill put forward as well.

    The New Yorker:

    The chip money is not a new addition to the Monday deal. It was in the bill that failed on Friday, when all but five Democrats (along with five Republicans, including, for parliamentary reasons, McConnell) voted against it, triggering the shutdown. (One of those five Democrats, Senator Doug Jones, of Alabama, fresh from defeating Roy Moore in a special election, cited the “strong commitment” that he had made to chip on the campaign trail as his reason for doing so.) Partly as a result, the matter of chip, which had, in the past few months, been a rallying cry for Democrats, has, in the past few days, been turned against them, with Republicans baldly claiming that Democrats don’t care about children’s health.

    The whole reason that Doug Jones was one of the five Democrats to vote for the bill that failed on Friday is because it included CHIP funding.

  96. 96
    Kathleen says:

    @Kay: Good point. I did not have that perspective. Like our humble host, I can admit when I err!

  97. 97
    Kay says:


    Because Republicans support SCHIP. They have no choice. It’s wildly popular in their states and districts.

    I’m not giving them credit for kindness here. I’m saying that Republicans lie about how politically popular these programs are, because they aren’t conservative programs. But we don’t have to buy this lie. Instead we could say “yes, you do support SCHIP and you support Medicare and Social Security too because those were good ideas and people want them”

    Even Republican people. Where I live it’s especially Republican people :)

  98. 98
    Kay says:


    It’s like a game they’re playing here, because Democrats see a political advantage to saying “we support these programs and they don’t” but then when Republicans run in states like Ohio Republicans say they support these programs, which is how they get elected. But they’re essentially liberal programs so instead of going along with Republicans playing this stupid game Democrats could say “but you do support SCHIP ” and that would be true. Force Rob Portman to admit that he does, in fact, support SCHIP and Medicare and Social Security. That’s what “takes it off the table”, that admission.

    It worked for 40 years. Popular government programs were a “third rail” that Republicans wouldn’t touch because Democrats forced them to publicly endorse them. That’s what kept “entitlements” safe. Not tactics, but forcing them to state the obvious.

    George W Bush is the President who changed this “third rail” analysis, but it actually didn’t work when he tried it. He failed in eradicating SCHIP, and he failed in privatizing Social Security. He failed because people want those.

    They’re still a third rail. It’s just that pundits and GOP politicians play elaborate games to pretend they aren’t a third rail.

  99. 99
    efgoldman says:


    They had to fund it eventually

    Why? They don’t have to fund anything they don’t want to.

    Because Republicans support SCHIP. They have no choice. It’s wildly popular in their states and districts.

    Bull. Look at the last year of congressional “action”. They passed two monster bills that were/are hugely unpopular, against all political conventional wisdom. They’re effectively challenging voters to throw the bums out.

  100. 100
    efgoldman says:

    @Corner Stone:

    This is where the pressure was applied. And now it’s gone.

    In case you haven’t noticed, Dems are a minority in each house. It’s amazing to me that Schumer has accomplished as much as he has.

  101. 101
    Corner Stone says:

    @efgoldman: DACA fails when it goes vs Govt shut down. It seems obvious at this point that the D’s were not ready to fight this fight. If they now stand up for DACA in Feb they are going to get pummeled in the court of public opinion. They gave the nazis money for status quo and to continue terrorizing people, in exchange for nothing.

  102. 102
    efgoldman says:


    Rob Portman RUNS on CHIP. In 2010 they ran on Medicare. Republicans don’t support these programs ideologically and they lie to their far Right base about them

    All states are not Ohio; all conservanazi senators and congresscritters are not Rob Portman. Not all the knuckle dragging flying monkeys are the people you know.

  103. 103
    Another Scott says:

    Kinda dead thread, but …

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t know if this (the 3 day shutdown vs simply passing the House bill without a shutdown) is a win or a loss for Team D. Getting the commitment from Turtle to allow a DACA bill is good, but it’s not as good as a commitment for a clean DACA bill. Of course, that was never in the cards.

    I suspect that McConnell will drag out the DACA bill until after February CR passes – or try to. “I said we’d start the process, not that I’d bring a bill up for a vote before February 8!!1” And even if a DACA bill does pass the Senate, that’s kinda small beans since a comprehensive immigration bill passed the Senate in 2013 and then died in the House. Paulie hasn’t said anything at all about letting a DACA bill come up for a vote.

    So what should Schumer have done? Dunno. I think he and Team D did a good job with a weak hand. I don’t think that shutting down the government for weeks would have changed Turtle’s mind, but nobody really knows.

    I don’t know what happens if they vote down a DACA bill before February 8, either. Or if Miller Trump vetoes it. What would a shutdown accomplish then??

    How this thing plays out is mostly in the Teabaggers’s hands. They have the majority, they decide the rules, they decide what amendments are allowed, they decide what comes up for a vote. If they don’t want to pass a DACA bill then they won’t, no matter what Schumer and the rest of Team D do.

    We knew they were going to fight us every step of the way. All we can do is maximize the noise we make, educate our peers about what’s going on, and maximize the vote for Team D in November. That means we have to continue to fight them every single day.

    (“Now off to read the rest of the replies…”)

  104. 104
    frosty says:


    A girl can dream.

    Dead thread but here goes. My understanding is that Editrix had the dream of running Wonkette back when Ana Marie Cox was still in charge. And damn if she didn’t make it come true.

  105. 105
    Mike G says:

    — Leader McConnell (@SenateMajLdr)

    What kind of arrogant fuckstick refers to himself as ‘Leader [Lastname]’?

    Shades of GW Bush’s slow-witted patronizing about his awesome leaderly leadership of leaderism:
    “I’m the commander guy”
    “That’s what a leader does. A leader leads.”

  106. 106
    Matt McIrvin says:

    On my G+ feed, the same Democrat who always likes to praise John McCain’s sensible centrism and calls everyone who disagrees a “far-Left lunatic” is complaining that the Democrats were “a bunch of spineless nothings” today.

    I suspect there was no way to win this: it was get smeared for shutting down the government or get smeared for caving.

  107. 107
    Gvg says:

    @Kay: there are not tons of Republican Congressmen leading that party who want CHIP. IMO Ryan and MCConnel actually hope they can distract enough people to let chip fall into oblivion. Ryan especially. I think we are lucky to ever see it funded again before Dems retake the entire government.
    IMO you are over estimating current Republican polititian’s connection to reality. I don’t know that they are that attached to getting re elected which means voters have less leverage than they should have.

  108. 108
    SWMBO says:

    Is it just me or is Pelosi getting short sheeted here? Everybody is going on about Schumer (who did a great job) keeping his caucus in line. But so has Pelosi. And she has more howler monkeys in the House to deal with and try to get around to get things done. She is quiet but she’s just as effective in her House as Schumer is in his. He’s just getting more air time for his smarts.

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