Friday Evening Open Thread: But Trump Has A Party to Get To!…


Remember when we’d have been talking about our plans for the upcoming weekend?…

173 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    But Trump Has A Party to Get To!…

    This is not a joke. This is why Trump will cave tonight. He didn’t like being told he couldn’t go to Mar-a-Lago.

  2. 2
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Baud: Yep! (Also, right now, he is not super-happy with the party for which he’s the figurehead. )

  3. 3

    vs. 28% for Democrats

    Well within the margin of error.

  4. 4
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Chuck: “Mr. President, we had a deal a week ago, and then you went all shithole on us.”

    Donald: “No shithole, no shithole, YOU’RE the shithole!”

    Chuck: “Well, I guess the party isn’t happening”

    Donald: “I want my party!”

    Chuck: “Well, then, I guess we get a clean DACA and a clean CHIP renewal, then. It’s the only way.”

    Donald: “Just as long as I get my party!”

  5. 5
    Mnemosyne says:

    The scary number for Republicans is the avowed Independents. That group may generally lean towards a specific party and stick with them, but they’re also more likely to stay home if they get pissed off at their preferred party, and Republicans can’t afford that this fall.

  6. 6
    kdaug says:

    He also believes – rightly – that he will be blamed.

  7. 7
    NotMax says:

    “It’s my party and I’ll cry lie if I want to.”

  8. 8
    efgoldman says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    right now, he is not super-happy with the party for which he’s the figurehead.


  9. 9
  10. 10
    dmsilev says:

    The LA Times had an interesting poll today. Their methodology is a bit different than most pollsters; they have a fixed panel of people that they check back with every few months. While there are some issues with that, it does enable asking some interesting questions. For instance, what fraction of people who initially approved of Trump’s job last spring now disapprove? (1 in 8). Of those who hadn’t yet made up their minds back then but have since decided, what do they think now? (2:1 disapprove:approve). How about intensity of support?

    Even among those who voted for him, Trump’s popularity is tepid. Asked to rate him on a 0-100 thermometer, Trump voters gave the president personally an average score of 64. His policies won a score of 72. By contrast, the antipathy from Clinton voters was intense — they gave Trump a personal score of 7 and a policy score of 9.

    (I guess ‘9’ is “at least he hasn’t yet started a nuclear war”)

  11. 11
    JDM says:

    No chocolate cake for you!

  12. 12
    Davebo says:

    @Baud: Especially when he has people lined up paying up to $250,000 per couple to attend a dinner tomorrow night.

  13. 13
    lamh36 says:

    Good news today in the LAMH family…my oldest nephew (up until 2 years ago, he was my ONLY nephew, but we got another boy coming to our family of women and girls, brining the total in my immediate family from 8 girls/2boys to 8 girls 3 boys…lol), got an acceptance letter to his first choice college today!!!

    I’m a prouder than usual auntie today!!!

    When I told him how proud I was of him and I was telling all my coworkers about him, he said “Thx…next I’m going for the Presidency”😍😍😍‬

    ‪#LoveMyNephew ‬

    My reply…‬

  14. 14
    dmsilev says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    Also, right now, he is not super-happy with the party for which he’s the figurehead.

    I assume nailing him to the bow of a ship isn’t in the cards?

  15. 15
    dmsilev says:

    @lamh36: Cool! Does he know what he wants to study yet?

  16. 16
    aimai says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Jeebus, if they could just send him to his room (in the white house) until he signs DACA.

  17. 17
    M31 says:

    Is this particular shutdown again because of the debt ceiling limit?

    That is, a made-up pile of bullshit that is being used to hold the government hostage?

    I actually forgot what was the actual reason for the deadline, and went to cnn and the washpost, etc. to see if they had clear answers easily available. They did not.

    A lot of talk of ’60 votes needed in the Senate’ and ‘how many Democrats are needed for it to pass’

  18. 18
    Kathleen says:

    @lamh36: That is so cool! Also just replied on Twitter.

  19. 19
    aimai says:

    @lamh36: OMG that twitter thread is pure genius.

  20. 20
    Yutsano says:

    @lamh36: AAAACK!!! SO AWESOME!!! He gonna go medicine?

    EDIT: just dropped you a follow too!

    @M31: This is all because even with a majority in both houses the Republicans can’t make a budget. That’s it. They can’t just grind out the numbers in their own caucus to get to 218 + 51 + 1, even when the 1 is a rubber stamp. If nothing else they should be voted out for sheer incompetence.

  21. 21
    lamh36 says:

    @dmsilev: Not a clue…LOL…but he’s an artist…so I’m gonna bet something art related…his mom and I will of course try to get him to hopefully pick up a degree that he will like but that will also lead hin to having some job opportunity once he graduates…

    But that’s a conversation for a later date. He’s got to finish HS and gradute in May!

  22. 22
    MazeDancer says:

    Thought all the punditry speculating that Trump was setting up the whole shutdown drama so he could swoop in at the last minute and be the hero was accurate. But maybe he can’t figure out how to do that and maintain his desire to exclude all non-white people and hurt children

    While we wait, hope that others laugh as heartily as I did to this Ken Dilanian tweet

    To all the Trump supporters who are tweeting at me that you are not Russian bots, I believe most of you. My point is that your #releasethememo is the top trending hashtag among the Russian bots and trolls over the last 48 hours, and you might want to ask yourself why.

  23. 23
    lamh36 says:

    @Kathleen: Yes… I saw that..thx.

    As the childless spinster aunt, I bask in the accomplishments of my sisters kids and my cousins…LOL

  24. 24
    Yarrow says:

    Apparently red state Dems with elections coming up are starting to say they’ll vote yes on the CR. Donnelly, Manchin and now Heidtkamp. Still short of 60 votes.

  25. 25
    Hungry Joe says:

    I can’t figure out why the GOP leadership is worried about what Trump thinks. He’ll sign whatever they put in front of him, saying that it’s his idea and that it’s great. Can’t see him vetoing much of anything — especially this, which would shut down the government immediately, with his name stamped — but not in gold — on every chaotic fuckup and fuckdown that comes with it.

  26. 26
    Brachiator says:

    Trump is a crotchety old man with fixed habits. He prefers to be in one of his own places than the White House. He wants to be able to show up and preen at a party (especially if he is charging people to show up). And he has got to golf.

    This whole “running the country like a business” and making decisions is eating into his “me time.” And there is lots of “me time” on Trump’s calendar.

    Meanwhile, in another part of the forest, Turkey and Syria are apparently about to go at it. From the BBC:

    Turkey has intensified its shelling of a Kurdish militia in northern Syria, ahead of a threatened ground offensive aimed at driving them out of the area.

    The shelling of Afrin region came from Hatay province, Turkish state media said, as troops massed on the border.

    The Russian foreign minister has denied reports that Russia is withdrawing its forces from the area.

    Turkey has for months said it would clear Kurdish YPG fighters from Afrin, under Kurdish control since 2012.

    Turkey regards the YPG as a terrorist group.

    Syria has warned against an incursion, threatening to shoot down Turkish jets.

    Turkish Defence Minister Nurettin Canikli said the shelling was the “de-facto start” of a planned invasion of Afrin.

    I don’t know whether the White House has any opinion about this.

  27. 27
    dmsilev says:

    @M31: Congress has been funding government operations in one or two month increments for the last several months because, basically, Republicans suck at the actual governing thing. What’s worse is that, despite the Republicans having a majority in both houses, they’ve only been able to pass these “continuing resolutions” with support from some Democrats because there are some Republicans who are loonier than average. This time, the Democrats have said that if the GOP wants their votes, the continuing resolution needs to have two things: Funding for the SCHIP program (health insurance for children) and some path forward on DACA (immigrant children).

    Re the vote requirement, because the Republicans really really really wanted to cut taxes for rich people, the normal “budget reconciliation” tool that would allow passing the CR with 50 votes is off the table (you can use one such bill each fiscal year), so they need 60 votes in the Senate and hence need at least 9 Democrats to support even if all of their own Senators also support.

  28. 28
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @M31: 60 votes is for a continuing resolution. In other words, kick the can down the road. Congress hasn’t been able to pass a budget for years, because of the drooling idiots of the Freedumb Caucus.

  29. 29
    lamh36 says:

    Deutsche Bank reported questionable transactions involving President Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner, or people or businesses near him, to German securities regulators and will forward the info to special prosecutor Robert Mueller. @manager_magazin #DeutscheBank #JaredKushner

  30. 30
    Yarrow says:

    @lamh36: Congrats to your nephew!

  31. 31
    M31 says:



    thanks — so this is the regular budget, it’s not the old Newt debt ceiling chokepoint bullshit.


    I mean, not wow, but ‘what a totally-expected shitshow’

  32. 32
    Steeplejack says:


    Love the comments.

    “Is this Norway?”

    “Norway has more brown skin than that.”

  33. 33
    MazeDancer says:


    Thank you so much for bringing over that Axios Anniversary tweet. The GOP intern group shot with Paul Ryan now moves to #2 on the Caucasian Count Down.

    The replies are highly amusing. Especially enjoyedL

    Is this Norway?

  34. 34
    boatboy_srq says:

    @dmsilev: What a quaint suggestion.

    Even in the 18th century they used bolts.

  35. 35
    jl says:

    Good evidence that the GOP long con is finally running into some trouble, maybe even crashing on the rocks. Which would be good news.
    It couldn’t go on forever, maybe only because nothing can go on forever.
    GOP never bothered to figure out an exit strategy, which has been obvious since they ditched their self-examination exercise on their all-purpose toxic bigotry and hate after their defeats to Obama.

    Edit: adding sick people of all ages and descriptions to their hate list was probably a mistake.

  36. 36
    debbie says:


    Any idea who told him? They’re probably next on the Firing List.

  37. 37
    boatboy_srq says:

    @lamh36: WAHOO! Nothing like getting to study where you really wanted to go.

  38. 38
    Steeplejack says:


    Congratulations to your nephew!

  39. 39
    M31 says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    So if the Republicans agreed on an actual budget, (not a CR), then they could pass it with 51 votes? (Absent a Dem filibuster).

  40. 40
    jl says:

    Also, good possibility that GOP is freaked because Trump, who really doesn’t care about anything but a ‘win’ might agree to something halfway reasonable and decent, which would foul up GOP plans for cynical and dishonest demagoguery. If something lands on Trump’s desk quick enough after he agrees, he might even sign it, on the ‘what the hell? It’s a win’ principle.

    Which is another sign that our GOP problems is as serious as our Trump problem.

  41. 41
    NotMax says:


    Only if it passes in the House first.

    All budget bills must originate in the House, per some old document kicking around D.C.

  42. 42
    randy khan says:


    The Republicans were something like 12 or 14 votes shy because of R defections, etc. I’d guess that Schumer has given some people a free pass because he knows he doesn’t need them.

  43. 43
    mai naem mobile says:

    @Yarrow: they don’t get to 60 even with McCaskill,Tester and Doug Jones. They got shit. CHI falls on GOP governors as well. McTurtle broke it and he can go eat shit and live in his shit hole . The GOP really think the Dems are not going to come out to vote because Schumer is fighting for DACA? Please proceed assholes.

  44. 44
    lamh36 says:

    Why is it always just 1 employer who’s gotta be late with the W-2s…and it usually the one you spent the LEAST amount of time working at the previous year…

    I got all of my W-2/tax documents except the 1 from my former employer..where I only worked for 2 months…in the beginning of the year…ugh…

  45. 45
    SFAW says:


    Any idea who told him? They’re probably next on the Firing List.

    S_cat is hoping it’s Kelly. Can’t say I would disagree.

  46. 46
    M31 says:


    oh yeah, some old document, who pays attention to that shit, it’s got words like ’emoluments’ in it

  47. 47
    J R in WV says:


    Lamh, that’s wonderful news. Where did he want to go? What does he think he’ll major in? Which isn’t to say that’s what he’ll graduate in, I started off in liberal arts but wound up in BS Computer Science (for the money, plus it was interesting hard!).

    I’m being nosy a little, so feel free to tell me to go away, but the kids interest me, ’cause I’m so old.

  48. 48
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @M31: They could pass a House bill unaltered with 51 votes.

    The problem is the House can’t agree on what to pass, due to aforementioned Freedumb Caucus.

    The other problem is the GOP Senators can’t agree on what should be in this bill.

  49. 49
    Roger Moore says:


    Their methodology is a bit different than most pollsters; they have a fixed panel of people that they check back with every few months. While there are some issues with that, it does enable asking some interesting questions.

    A huge advantage is that you know how those people felt, or at least claimed they felt, about the issues in the past. One of thing to worry about with many polls is how honest the respondents are about their past behavior. How many people who voted for Trump are afraid to admit it now and pretend they voted for somebody else (or stayed home) when asked about it now? With a poll like the one the LA Times runs, you have a record of how that same person responded in the past, so you don’t have to depend on their honesty in responding today. You even have a way of judging if one group is getting discouraged and refusing to respond to the poll, since you can compare response rates based on past survey answers. There are problems if your initial population was skewed- you don’t get to resample with every poll- but longitudinal studies have huge advantages.

  50. 50
    Mnemosyne says:


    Meh. I suspect it’s posturing. There’s no harm in being strategic when it’s not going to pass anyway.

  51. 51
    J R in WV says:


    They need 60 votes in the Senate, which is why Sen Chuck Shumer is getting some flack as the destroyer of our country; they need something like 9 Democratic Senators to vote for it. That 50 + Pence was only for the reconcliiation process, which is to avoid the filibuster limit of 60 votes on occasion. There’s a lot of rules, which I don’t care to remember.

  52. 52
    randy khan says:

    So the Justice Department has announced that it’s going to retry Bob Menendez.

    Now, personally, I think Menendez is a sleaze who shouldn’t be in the Senate, and I also think the Supreme Court went too far in narrowing the ways you can get someone for selling political favors.

    But I also think retrying him is nuts. The jury didn’t hang 11-1 in favor of the government, or even 6-6 – it was 10-2 for acquittal. The evidence isn’t getting any better for the prosecution, and the law won’t improve, either, and they’re not getting a new judge who might favor the government more. So this pretty much has to have been a decision from high up in the Justice Department, and it’s going to be ridiculously easy for Menendez to paint it as purely politically motivated (which it almost certainly is).

    I read the stories about how supposedly having Menendez on trial complicates things for the Dems, and honestly I think it makes it easier. Heck, if I were Menendez, I would be torn between demanding the trial start next Tuesday and insisting that the soonest possible date for it to start is November 15 because I wouldn’t be sure which scenario I could exploit better.

  53. 53
    randy khan says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    I think you’re incorrect. This is a non-reconciliation bill, and they generally need 60 votes to clear a filibuster.

  54. 54
    Baud says:

    @randy khan: I agree. It’s easier on us now that NJ has a Dem governor.

  55. 55
    trollhattan says:

    I don’t know why everybody and their uncle in the region hate the Kurds, but they’re constantly fucked from three directions–four when ISIS was still viable.

    As per Trump usual we won’t do squat.

  56. 56
    Yarrow says:

    @randy khan: That’s my guess too. Give them cover.

  57. 57
    M31 says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    thanks! Hopefully the disarray and craziness will keep things from being as bad as they could be

  58. 58
    trollhattan says:

    @randy khan:
    So long as he has (D) after the name and Jefferson Beauregard Munchkin III is AJ he must be Brought to Justice. The end.

  59. 59
    Yarrow says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yes, I agree. It’s an indication of where things are going, though. Looks like no deal. Government will shut down.

  60. 60
    Roger Moore says:


    This is all because even with a majority in both houses the Republicans can’t make a budget. That’s it. They can’t just grind out the numbers in their own caucus to get to 218 + 51 + 1, even when the 1 is a rubber stamp.

    Part of it is that they actually need 218 + 60 + 1, because they burned their one chance per year to pass something through reconciliation on tax cuts rather than an actual budget. I suspect they could probably twist enough arms to get to 50 (plus Pence) if that were the cutoff, but because the Democrats can filibuster, a bunch of Republicans feel now is a good time to stand up for their principles and refuse to go along.

  61. 61
    J R in WV says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    @M31: They could pass a House bill unaltered with 51 votes.

    No, it’s a normal bill, which takes 60 votes in the Senate… the dreaded fillibuster allows the hated Democrats to not vote for it, causing it to fail. Something like that. They need 60, and without 60 nothing can pass. Sorry, Nazis, you lose.

  62. 62

    The vote on the shutdown will be at 10 pm Eastern time.

  63. 63
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @randy khan: If there’s no reconciliation (that is, no need to alter the bill the House sends to the Senate) I think they can just pass that with 51. Assuming they have 51, which they don’t. Recall that Yertle rammed through the SC seat stealer Gorsuch on a bare majority vote without the cloture break.

  64. 64
    MomSense says:


    No scoop for you!

  65. 65
    Roger Moore says:

    @Hungry Joe:

    I can’t figure out why the GOP leadership is worried about what Trump thinks.

    It gives them an excuse to do what they want while passing the blame to someone else. This is the MO for both Ryan and McConnell; they let crazy minorities within their caucus dictate terms because it lets them shift the blame for what they wanted all along.

  66. 66
    randy khan says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    What they did with Gorsuch was kill the filibuster for Supreme Court justices. Of course, in theory they could try to do that for regular legislation as well, but they don’t even have 50 Republican votes for the legislation right now, let alone for a vote to kill the filibuster over legislation without 50 Republican votes.

  67. 67
    lamh36 says:

    @J R in WV: He’s an only child, who acts like he wants to get away from him mother, but really he doesn’t. He alos doens’t have alot of money, and he’s eligible for the LA TOPS program, so he needed to go to a state school. He wanted to be far enough away from his mon that wasn’t TOO FAR for her to drive (or him to drive) home to NOLA if he needed to.

    He’ll be an incoming freshmean at the state university in Lafayette…1 hr from Baton Rouge, bout 2 hrs from NOLA!

  68. 68
    NotMax says:

    Just took a glance at the House calendar for 2018.

    Entire month of August off (July 28 – Sept. 3). Also nearly a month off leading into election day.

  69. 69
    Baud says:

    Chris Matthews thinks he has 2 million viewers.

  70. 70
    Kathleen says:

    @lamh36: I know many proud aunties who have no biological children of their own but contribute so much to the well being and success of their nieces and nephews. It’s pretty cool. I applaud you and your tight knit family.

  71. 71
    lamh36 says:

    Retweeted CBS News
    Who wants to tell him?

    Follow Follow @CBSNews
    “Our country was founded by geniuses, but it’s being run by idiots,” Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA) says as government shutdown looms.

  72. 72
    dmsilev says:

    @Roger Moore: Getting to 50 + Pence is also not trivial for them. Remember, with Doug Jones now in the Senate, it’s 51-49, and McCain is out undergoing medical treatment for his cancer right now. So, they would need Every Single Republican to agree. Good luck, Mitch…

  73. 73
    B.B.A. says:

    Reminder that Davos is next week, and the SotU was moved so Trump could attend and stick it to those bank boys and Eurotrash cucks who think they’re so much better than him.

    If there’s a shutdown and he still goes…well, fill in the rest.

  74. 74
    Mandalay says:


    “Norway has more brown skin than that.”

    Unfortunately it’s not just Axios doing Norway…

    Incoming Alabama Senator Doug Jones said Tuesday that he has hired Dana Gresham, a former transportation official and congressional aide to be his chief of staff, which will make him the only Senate Democrat to have an African-American chief of staff

    They talk the talk. They really need to start walking the walk. Pronto.

  75. 75
    dmsilev says:

    @Baud: Half of those are in his imagination, and half of the rest are hate-watching him.

  76. 76
    dmsilev says:

    @B.B.A.: Ideal case, IMHO, would be a shutdown that lasts for about a week and ends with a DACA deal, thereby ruining Trump’s Swiss trip and forcing him to accept a bad deal (in his eyes) just a few days before the SotU speech. He’d spend the entire speech ranting and raving about it.

  77. 77
    debbie says:


    I’m rooting for Hope myself.

  78. 78
    RedDirtGirl (AKA IvankaThrowUp) says:

    @Kathleen: I’m a proud auntie who will be heading to tomorrow’s NYC Pussy March with my sister and 15 year old niece.

  79. 79

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Recall that Yertle rammed through the SC seat stealer Gorsuch on a bare majority vote without the cloture break.

    That’s because he nuked the filibuster on Supreme Court votes.

  80. 80
    lamh36 says:

    2m2 minutes ago
    Tom Petty died of accidental drug overdose, coroner’s office says

  81. 81
    RedDirtGirl (AKA IvankaThrowUp) says:

    I haven’t been around much in the past few days. Do we know any more about Ozark Hillbilly’s son? I’ve been thinking a lot about them….

  82. 82
    lamh36 says:

    If Omarosa brings Trump down…she STILL ain’t invited to the cookout…FUQ her…

    Omarosa may have secretly taped White House conversations: report

  83. 83
    debbie says:


    Excuse my language, but that’s a lot of shit in his system!

  84. 84
    NotMax says:


    It’s possible, if one squints a bit.

    Partial data summary from October 2017:

    • “Morning Joe” averaged 1.02 million total and 237,000 viewers A25-54.
    • “Hardball” averaged 1.66 million total viewers and 344,000 viewers A25-54.
    • “All In” averaged 1.67 million total viewers and 372,000 viewers A25-54.
    • “Maddow” averaged 2.5 million total viewers and 558,000 viewers A25-54.
    • “The Last Word” averaged 1.95 million total viewers and 416,000 viewers A25-54.
    • “The 11th Hour” averaged 1.44 million total viewers and 310,000 viewers A25-54.

  85. 85
    zhena gogolia says:

    @RedDirtGirl (AKA IvankaThrowUp):

    As far as I know there hasn’t been any news.

  86. 86
    Mary G says:

    @Mandalay: Yeah, I follow Shaun King on Twitter and a few months ago he did a survey and several Republicans in Congress had black chiefs of staff, but no Democrats, which is a disgrace. You gotta walk the walk if you want to talk the talk.

    ETA: This is a great Twitter thread:

    After dozens of students are either killed or expelled for being mudbloods, "The Daily Prophet" responds to the crisis by interviewing a panel of Death Eaters to ask why they support Voldemort. cc: @nytimes#Trumps1stYearAtHogwarts— Charlotte Clymer🏳️‍🌈 (@cmclymer) January 19, 2018

  87. 87
    Ruckus says:


    I don’t know whether the White House has any opinion about this.

    I wonder if the “leader” of the free world even knows and if he did would he be able to find either country on a map, let alone have any idea what it means.

  88. 88
    lamh36 says:


    JUST IN: In Facebook post, family of Tom Petty say coroner’s office has informed them that Petty died “due to an accidental drug overdose as a result of taking a variety of medications” –

  89. 89

    @NotMax: Part of that is timing because Hardball is on at 4pm here on the west coast so it’s before most folk here get home from work. Must be at 1pm or 2pm for you.

  90. 90
    RedDirtGirl (AKA IvankaThrowUp) says:

    @zhena gogolia: Thanks.

  91. 91
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @trollhattan: The Kurds want a homeland, a nation-state in that area. The only way they get it is by carving a chunk out of one or more nation-states who quite reasonably don’t want chunks of their nation-states carved off, and they’ve all got more and better guns than the Kurds.

    There’s no unexplored territory left, there’s no primitives that can be driven into the badlands to open up the land for settlers with guns and armies, there’s no Palestinian Mandate or other unclaimed territory around to create a new country in without killing a lot of people. Sucks, doesn’t it?

  92. 92
    NotMax says:


    If had to guess, it would be that Matthews is adding together ratings for the live broadcast plus those for the rerun later in the evening.

  93. 93
    dmsilev says:

    Looks like Yertle is going to at least try for a vote:

    The Senate has scheduled for 10 p.m. ET a procedural vote to advance the House bill that would fund the government for a month, though the path to avoiding a government shutdown does not look any clearer in the hours leading up to the votes.

    The government will shut down at midnight if a spending bill does not pass.


  94. 94
    Kristine says:

    @lamh36: Congratulations to your nephew!

  95. 95
    Aleta says:

    I hope Schumer is recording it.

    I looked up whether that’s legal in DC.

    Politifact: D.C. law allows “one-party consent” taping. That means that taping is legal as long as one participant in the conversation is aware that a recording is being made.

    “There’s no federal or D.C. law of which I’m aware that makes it illegal to unilaterally record a conversation in the District of Columbia,” Stephen I. Vladeck, a professor at the University of Texas School of Law. “That’s without regard to whether such recordings might themselves be evidence of other criminal activity, but that’s another matter altogether.”

    Some jurisdictions require two-party consent, meaning that both parties must be aware of the taping, but the District of Columbia is not one of those. No-party consent — essentially secret surveillance by a third party — is typically illegal without a judicial warrant.

    So Trump can also record meetings without notifying others. Unless there’s another law that applies to recording Trump, or in the Ov Of, I guess Priebus or Bannon or any of that ilk might have too? I don’t think they take personal cell phones away from the Senators do they? They only banned WH staff from bringing them in, I thought.

  96. 96
    lamh36 says:

    damn…FUQ’N Fentanyl…reminded by someone it’s the same druge involved in Prince’s death.

    My theory…all the news about propofol and it’s involvement in Micheal Jackson’s death, led to that use of another drug by the famous and those who can afford it…

    2m2 minutes ago
    Tom Petty died from an accidental drug overdose involving painkiller Fentanyl

  97. 97
    Davebo says:

    What kind of porn star can be gagged by a lousy 130k?

  98. 98
    Marcopolo says:

    Honestly haven’t read the entire thread, it’s probably already been said, but I’m calling what’s about to happen the Government Shitdown.

  99. 99
  100. 100
    Aimai says:

    @Marcopolo: well done!

  101. 101
    Davebo says:

    Right now in a number of states the laws allow a baby to be born from his or her mother’s womb in the 9th month.

    President Donald Trump addressed anti-abortion activists at the March For Life Friday

    Around the 25 second mark.

  102. 102
    Davebo says:

    @lamh36: Fake news awards were delayed then they realized Omarosa had the assignment.

  103. 103
    NotMax says:


    Also too, another example of Republican’t.

  104. 104
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    What?! Was he trying to riff on “from his mother’s womb/untimely ripp’d” or something?

  105. 105
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    I’m calling what’s about to happen the Government Shitdown.

    Heh. Very nice.

  106. 106
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    family of Tom Petty say coroner’s office has informed them that Petty died “due to an accidental drug overdose as a result of taking a variety of medications

    Ah phuck. Goddammit. So tragic.

  107. 107
    NotMax says:


    True story.

    That line from Willie S. was on the slip of paper I pulled out of the hat during a game of charades.

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    @Davebo: Usually it’s more of a 13 inch.

  109. 109
    dmsilev says:

    @Davebo: He’s complaining because C-sections are legal?

  110. 110
    Roger Moore says:


    What kind of porn star can be gagged by a lousy 130k?

    I thought they all had to learn to suppress their gag reflex. It would certainly help in dealing with Donald Trump.

  111. 111
    Marcopolo says:

    So who’s going out to march tomorrow? I’m hoping to have a sign that says, “They tried to bury us. They didn’t know we were seeds.” And “Let’s make Nov 6th 2018 a Blunami!” (The hope is my artist friend has the time to make the sign otherwise I recycle one of my other half dozen signs from this past year)

  112. 112
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @lamh36: I suspect it’s more that the opiates treat pain, where as propofol is sedation/general aneshesia. It’s perhaps better – though much riskier than say, Ambien for sleep sedation, but it’s not going to have the pain relief effects of an opiate.

    The opiates have a unique capacity to remodel the neural pathways, which is part of the reason for the rapidly increasing tolerance for them. And that extends to pain relief – a dosage that extinguished pain for a period will in several days become a dosage that merely blunts pain and then shortly thereafter will have no effect. And the withdrawal is also pretty horrific, which compounds the problem. And the multiple opiates in combination with some benzos listed in that tox report is unsurprisingly a lethal mix. Tragic, but as the family notes, most likely a painless passing.

  113. 113
    Ruviana says:

    @lamh36: Seems more like mixing fentanyl with heroin to give it more of a kick as people turned from opioids to street drugs.

  114. 114
    Peale says:

    @dmsilev: what I don’t think is being made clear by our pundit betters is that the way reason the democrats must play hardball with this CR is that the DACA enrollees will start being rounded up and deported in March. There’s no “kick it down the road”. If your permit expires March 9th, you have not been able to renew and won’t be able to. The states will be out of money for CHIP. The Democrats aren’t be obstinate. Frankly, I’d be willing to fund he first 100 yards of a wall to keep DACA enrollees safe through the rest of Trump’s term.

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    Yarrow says:

    @lamh36: Petty’s family says he started taking the pain meds because of a hip injury. it’s such a common thing. People get prescribed opiods for pain and they become addicted.

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    mainmata says:

    @M31: Yes, it’s all about the World War I era debt ceiling limit, which was a made up thing then and has now become a purely GOP cudgel.

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    Davebo says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’ve got to believe that was the idea.

    But the guy could f#ck up a steel ball with a plastic spork.

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    danielx says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    Also, right now, he is not super-happy with the party for which he’s the figurehead.

    This makes me happy.

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    RedDirtGirl (AKA IvankaThrowUp) says:

    @Aimai: Here, here! Government Shitdown it is!

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    mainmata says:

    @randy khan: Agree entirely but ole Jeff, our miniature AG, is always about vengeance against his perceived enemies even if (and especially if) futile. In any event, NJ has an apparently progressive Democratic governor so the outcome wouldn’t matter anyway.

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    danielx says:


    I’ve wondering about that myself. It seemed to me this happened kind of in reverse order. She should have gotten the 130k just for fucking Trump (an appalling thought), and a million for keeping her mouth shut.

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    RedDirtGirl (AKA IvankaThrowUp) says:

    @Roger Moore: Yes! Well done!

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    Shana says:

    @lamh36: Mazel tov to the nephew (and you for being a great and supportive Auntie)!

    ETA: my younger daughter is finishing her Masters in Art History, so that’s a possibility. We’re just waiting to hear who accepts her for a pHd program. Tick tock.

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    debbie says:


    I don’t think there are prescriptions for fentanyl. That’s what they’re lacing heroin with and what so many are ODing on and dying from.

  125. 125
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    ‘Tis a powerfully beautiful line. Although the mind boggles a bit at just how you charaded it.

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    eemom says:

    Too much to ask, I know, but I wish people would have some respect and not cluck-cluck and poster-child a tragic death.

    Still more too much to ask, of course, that anybody READ the fucking statement of the family. He didn’t “start taking opioids for pain and then get addicted” — which by the way, is a bullshit, medically debunked trope that has resulted in millions of people suffering needlessly from chronic pain.

    He was IN agonizing pain on the day he died from a FRACTURED hip.

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    Shana says:

    @J R in WV: My recommendation for kids thinking about where to apply is always “pick a school that’s big enough that if you change your major you can explore other fields at your current school. You may still decide to transfer somewhere else but at least you’ve explored other areas first.” No idea how many actually listen, but still I think it’s good advice.

  128. 128
    Yarrow says:

    @debbie: There certainly are prescriptions for fentanyl patches because a family member of mine used them for awhile. Had to go in every month, sign in triplicate, be willing to be drug tested and if tested positive for other things would have the prescription pulled. It was very controlled by the doctor. I don’t know about other forms.

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    Newshour panel was in turns concern trolling and castigating the Ds. I maintain my opinion that Mark Shields is one of the most useless pundits on TV

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    Davebo says:


    Are you saying people don’t start taking opioids for pain and then get addicted?

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    Peale says:

    @schrodingers_cat: yep. He predicted a lack of enthusiasm and democratic losses in Virginia. Then a lack of enthusiasm for Dems and a loss in Alabama. He’s the poster child now for “Dems better do what Republicans say”. He’s had that chair for 35 years. Why?

  133. 133
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @debbie: I had fentanyl administered to me in the ER last year, primarily because it is powerful and fast-acting. It also leaves the system quickly, which was important to me as I had to drive home. It is medically-approved and pharmaceutically-manufactured, at least for the stuff in that setting.

  134. 134
    Chet Murthy says:

    @NotMax: Dayyyum. Dr. Maddow is crushin’ it.

  135. 135
    Yarrow says:

    Leaving Schumer’s office, Coons tells me Dems are basically set against the CR, wants his “Republican friends” to get how a “reasonable Democrat like me has ended up in a place where I don’t believe that they’re at all serious” on DACA in next month post-Trump rejection of deal— Tal Kopan (@TalKopan) January 20, 2018

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    dmsilev says:


    I maintain my opinion that Mark Shields is one of the most useless pundits on TV

    There’s a _lot_ of competition for that title.

  137. 137
    Baud says:

    Rachel says Dems meeting in the Fuck LBJ Room.

  138. 138
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    I tuned in at the very end of Chris Hayes and he’s wringing his hands worried repugs have a better position.


  139. 139
    dmsilev says:

    @Yarrow: Seems basically right. One good thing about Shitholegate (Shitpot Dome?) is that it clarified for a lot of people that Trump really really means it when he says racist things. Sure, that’s not exactly a surprise to anyone paying attention, but a lot of people really want to believe that it wasn’t the case.

  140. 140
    debbie says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I have to admit my surprise because all I’ve ever heard is how toxic it is. A cop brushed some of it off his jacket after a bust and it took four doses of Narcan to revive him.

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    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: Chris is the kind of Democrat that Baud was talking about this morning.

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    eemom says:


    Go do some research.

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    TS says:

    @Baud: Rachel crosses to one of the NBC reporters and asks “Do the senate have to pass exactly the same bill as the house”. He raved for 5 minutes and never answered the question asked. This is a friendly interview – have reporters learned from the politicians to answer the question they want to answer rather than the one asked?

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    SgrAstar says:

    @lamh36: That is great news! It’s such a mikestone to be accepted to college…and your first choice, fantastic!

  145. 145
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Are we sure he’s a Dem?

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    B.B.A. says:

    Under three hours left. Are there 50 votes to pass the House bill, and let Donald go play with his friends in Florida and Switzerland? Or is he gonna have another temper tantrum?

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    dmsilev says:

    @TS: The answer to that question is “yes”, because otherwise the House would have to come back in session (they’ve left already) to reconcile the two bills.

    I’m not sure why 5 minutes of anything, including ranting, is needed to answer that.

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    Gin & Tonic says:

    @debbie: It’s part of standard trauma-management therapy. Didn’t do shit for me, but it’s supposed to be stronger than morphine. Plus, as I said, it flushes out quickly. Two or so hours after they administered it, I was cleared to drive home.

  149. 149
    JR says:

    @debbie: Fentanyl is ~100 times more potent than morphine, which is plenty potent. Of course the dosage is very low (25 micrograms) when administered to patients. Setting aside the differences between how the body metabolizes different drugs, you can draw a pretty rough equivalency to 2.5mg of morphine. However a standard dose of morphine starts at 15mg.

    Fentanyl is plenty dangerous, but it’s administered in a pretty safe way. The only thing more potent in common use is etorphine, which is ~1000 times more potent than morphine. It’s used as a large animal tranquilizer.

  150. 150
    dmsilev says:

    @B.B.A.: Washington Post just now:

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said a vote to end debate on a short-term spending bill will take place at 10 p.m. Friday in a last-ditch move to avert a government shutdown ahead of a midnight deadline.

    The scheduled vote follows a day lacking the tense negotiations and spirited closed-door meetings that typically precede important legislative deadlines. While President Trump met with Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) on Friday afternoon, their discussion produced no resolution, and Trump quickly reaffirmed his support for a GOP spending plan that would keep agencies open for 30 days.

    That bill appeared certain to fail, based on public statements from senators. No alternative bill had been filed or drafted, and the time necessary for the Senate to agree on and process a new bill, and then for House leaders to bring members back to the Capitol to vote on the measure, would likely take lawmakers past midnight.

    Looks like Donnie is staying in town tonight, and likely tomorrow as well. Chances of twitter tantrums are high.

  151. 151
    marcopolo says:

    @Marcopolo: And my artist friend has now texted me a photo of the poster she has already completed. Yahoo. Ready to march!

  152. 152
    Baud says:

    @dmsilev: So what are Dems asking for? A clean vote on DACA within the 30 days?

  153. 153
    TS says:

    @dmsilev: thanks – I couldn’t work out why he didn’t answer – and rachel didn’t ask again

  154. 154
    Davebo says:

    @eemom: No need.

  155. 155
    B.B.A. says:

    Just looked it up, and the last year the full appropriation package passed on time was 1997. We’ve had at least one temporary kick-the-can bill every year since then. There’s got to be a better way.

  156. 156
    dmsilev says:

    @Baud: They want a DACA fix as part of the CR, because at this point nobody trusts either Trump or Congressional Republicans who say “we’ll get to that soon, honestly we will”.

  157. 157
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    #Trumpshutdown trending worldwide.

    so is

    #LaurenDavis who is locked in an epic tied match right now at the aussie open (espn)

  158. 158
    Marcopolo says:

    @B.B.A.: Well, I’m sure it had nuthin to do with the Newt becoming Speaker in 1995. He never blowed nuthin up.

  159. 159
    Baud says:

    @dmsilev: That’s not physically possible right now. They either pass the House bill or there’s a shutdown.

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    Peale says:

    @dmsilev: yep. Sessions is trying to get the whole program declared illegal. They want these “most sympathetic” set of immigrants out of the country.

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    chopper says:

    This shutdown is happening in part because Repub leadership is afraid of passing a bill that Trump supports the day of passage but 36 hours later opposes & decides to veto.

    that’s not it. this shutdown is happening because paul ryan doesn’t want to introduce a bill that he knows needs democratic votes to pass.

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    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @raven: She gets around apparently.

  165. 165
    Ken says:


    There’s got to be a better way.

    I suppose chaining them in the Capitol and not feeding them until a budget is passed is off the table?

  166. 166
    B.B.A. says:

    @Ken: Obviously a no-go. Why would we feed them after the budget is passed?

  167. 167

    @Ken: We kind of tried that in California, we ended up solving the problem by getting rid of the Republicans.

  168. 168
    J R in WV says:


    I haven’t been there, to Lafayette, but it has always sounded like a nice place from reading about it. Best of luck to the young man!! Congrats to him in particular, and all your folks!

  169. 169
    Ken says:

    @B.B.A.: As a compromise (and taking the idea from an earlier thread), once they pass the budget we won’t unchain them, but we’ll release several hundred feral swine in the building. Someone will get fed.

  170. 170
    Adria McDowell says:

    @lamh36: Congrats! Maybe he should become an art teacher (before he heads off to the Presidency, I mean). The most popular teacher at my daughter’s school is the art teacher. Literally everyone loves him- kids, parents, and other teachers alike. He posts really thoughtful messages in the monthly newsletter, too.

  171. 171
    Lizzy L says:

    From WaPo: Government barrels toward shutdown after Senate blocks short-term spending bill.

  172. 172
    J R in WV says:


    Evidently Tom Petty had a fractured hip on his final tour, and continued to perform so as to not let his fans down, which led to a completely broken hip… so maximum pain relief was in order. He may have just forgotten he had already taken the 9 pm dose and doubled up, it could have been that simple.

    Very sad, though. Prince also had physical damage from performing. Those guys may have just overdone it as they aged. Still sad. So much talent burned up, just like Janice, Jimmy, so many talents.

  173. 173
    eemom says:

    @J R in WV:

    Exactly. Thank you.

    Of course, there’s always Keith….

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