168 replies
  1. 1
    JR says:

    Seems apropos

    Citizens, my countrymen, on this solemn day I have brought together those courageous soldiers who, as liberty lay dying, spilled their blood to save it; these generals who have guided your efforts against tyranny have not yet done enough for your happiness; the French name still haunts our land.

    Everything revives the memories of the cruelties of this barbarous people: our laws, our habits, our towns, everything still carries the stamp of the French. Indeed! There are still French in our island, and you believe yourself free and independent of that Republic which, it is true, has fought all the nations, but which has never defeated those who wanted to be free.

    What! Victims of our [own] credulity and indulgence for 14 years; defeated not by French armies, but by the pathetic eloquence of their agents’ proclamations; when will we tire of breathing the air that they breathe? What do we have in common with this nation of executioners? The difference between its cruelty and our patient moderation, its color and ours the great seas that separate us, our avenging climate, all tell us plainly that they are not our brothers, that they never will be, and that if they find refuge among us, they will plot again to trouble and divide us.

    Native citizens, men, women, girls, and children, let your gaze extend on all parts of this island: look there for your spouses, your husbands, your brothers, your sisters. Indeed! Look there for your children, your suckling infants, what have they become?… I shudder to say it … the prey of these vultures.

  2. 2
    Baud says:

    I hope we aren’t booed at the Winter Olympics.

  3. 3
    Skippy-san says:

    Taking aside the vulgarity of Trump’s comment, it truly shows how ignorant Trump and his shitty supporters are of the rest of the world. Norway today is a good place to live aside from its weather and the fact that Nov-Feb have barely 7 hours of daylight per day. They have good services, public transportation that works, clean streets, and an industrious population. If a Norwegian did want to leave for someplace warmer-he or she certainly has a lot better options that the hell hole that is Trump’s USA.

  4. 4
    danielx says:


    Toussaint Louverture?

  5. 5
    Skippy-san says:

    @Baud: I hope we are. Loudly.

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    @Skippy-san: It would just make us even more insuler. We need to seek out solidarity with good people around the world IMHO.

  7. 7
    MomSense says:

    Anyone else sing the Irving Berlin song in chorus as a kid? I think it was 5th grade or so when we performed it.

  8. 8
    raven says:

    @Baud: I hope we are.

  9. 9
    Lapassionara says:

    On Twitter, someone did a thread explaining the history of Haiti, and all the ways the purportedly “non-s$$$$e countries” have conspired to keep it impoverished over the decades since it gained its “independence” from France, at such a high cost.

    I am so technically illiterate that I cannot provide a link, but I learned things I did not know. So much wrong has been done in our name.

  10. 10
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Lapassionara: Here’s the first tweet of the series. I may front page the whole thing later. It’s excellent.

  11. 11
    Betty Cracker says:

    @raven: Me too. We deserve it. It would underscore the fact that Trump’s claims that we’re more respected in the world now are a lie, like virtually everything else that scumbag says.

  12. 12
    GregB says:

    I thought Europe was full of socialist hellholes that euthanize their elderly and don’t know how to do capitalism?

    That being said, I assume the in country US tourism market will be heading over a cliff this summer.

  13. 13
    eclare says:

    @Betty Cracker: I can see Baud’s point, but I think people are pretty much set in their insularity at this point. If you think Haiti and African countries are shitholes, booing isn’t going to have an effect. So, let the booing commence.

  14. 14
    Another Scott says:

    Morning, all. As LOLGOP says, Donnie is crying on the Internet again.

    24 min ago:

    Sadly, Democrats want to stop paying our troops and government workers in order to give a sweetheart deal, not a fair deal, for DACA. Take care of our Military, and our Country, FIRST!

    Some Twitter Whisperer is going to have to divine whether he really wrote/dictated that, but it seems to increase the likelihood of a shutdown (or of him getting rolled again). One week to go…


  15. 15
    low-tech cyclist says:

    Blow out the lamp beside the golden door,
    we don’t need cheap foreign labor anymore
    Without our unions and the E.R.A.,
    we’ll all have twice the jobs at half the pay.

    From a song, “Government on Horseback,” that Si Kahn wrote about President Reagan. Unfortunately, it’s even more true now.

  16. 16
    Another Scott says:

    @Betty Cracker: Since Donnie got to walk on a red carpet in 2017 and Obama didn’t, of course he the USA is now respected over seas.

    Only the best get the red carpet treatment



  17. 17
    Eural Joiner says:

    Anyone interested should check out the first couple of chapters in “Red Heat” by Alex von Tunzlmann which is a breath-taking look at the history of Haiti and the DR for the past 200 years. Yeah, Haiti is in bad shape – thanks to France and the US beating her with an imperial/capitalist stick over and over and over again.

  18. 18
    MJS says:

    @Betty Cracker: So Rich Lowry believes that “poor” equals “shithole”? Have I got some real shitholes to show him in rural PA.

  19. 19
    MattF says:

    It interesting to search on the phase ‘morally repugnant elite’. Almost all the hits turn out to be about Haiti.

  20. 20
    Waldo says:

    He’s now denying he said “shithole” — as though that’s the real issue.

  21. 21
    rk says:

    Some one from Fox news apparently asked why can’t these people stay in their own countries and improve the conditions there? I would like to ask why did Europeans not stay back and improve their European shitholes instead of coming to America? When Europe sent us it’s people it did not send the best. The descendants of those Europeans have now chosen a shithole president determined to now turn this country into a shithole.

    And talking of shitholes. A patient in a wheelchair was dumped outside by a hospital in Baltimore, Maryland.

  22. 22
    MattF says:

    @Waldo: Yeah, lying again. Not news.

  23. 23
    MomSense says:

    Did anyone see Anderson Cooper address Dolt45’s comments about Haiti?

  24. 24
  25. 25
    Amir Khalid says:


    the hell hole that is Trump’s USA

    America’s new national anthem?

  26. 26
    Chyron HR says:


    To be fair, if less than 24 hours later he’s convinced himself that he didn’t say “shithole” that’s a also pretty important issue we need to address.

  27. 27
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    On booing at the Olympics, while in favor of booing the US, I wonder how one does that without booing the athlete. I think the more appropriate response would be for the audience to take a knee every time the national anthem was played.

  28. 28
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Another Scott: If the government is shut down, Republicans, who fully control Congress, are to blame. Democrats are the minority party and can’t outvote any bill Republicans rally around. I hope Democrats are pushing back on this lie.

  29. 29
    Raven says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: The crowd at the Winter Olympics won’t exactly be the slat of the earth.

  30. 30
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @rk: I so wish we could upvote comments here. Native Americans are the only indigenous people here. Everyone else is an immigrant, including descendants of Europeans who fled here to escape majority White countries. Looking at you, Trump and your foreign born third wife.

  31. 31
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Raven: Also known as the “rich white people’s Olympics.”

  32. 32
    sherparick says:

    @Betty Cracker: We are so respected that Dolt45 can’t visit the United Kingdom without causing major riots, or for that matter almost any other democratic country. Only dictatorships and
    tyrannies welcome him and flatter him.

    By the way, Jeff Sessions, Homan, Stephen Miller, and Trump are bringing slavery back into this country in a big way through the immigration detention camps.

    But again, as the NY Times and Chris Cilazza would say, “…but her Emails!!!”

  33. 33
    kindness says:

    That plaque has noble statements written on it.

    I just came over from reading a USA Today article explaining how with the Fusion GPS transcripts now released, all the Republican conspiracy points are shown to be bullshit. The comments section though. USA Today always has the troglodites over there. In many of those comments, right wingers are shown themselves to be nothing like noble. Sadly they are exactly like Donald Trump’s awful id.

    I fear for our country. I fear for our nation. I’ll fight but this coming fight is going to hurt many.

    @Baud: The tossing of rotted vegetables would be appropriate though.

  34. 34
    VOR says:

    My great-grandparents migrated here because there was no opportunity, no jobs, and little food back in the old country. There were jobs and food here so they followed a wave of their fellow countrymen here (chain migration?). The elites stayed in the old country while the young and hopeless came here.

    Changing countries is different for normal people than rich assholes like Trump. Normal people leave their family, their home, everything familiar, in order to move to a strange place with different rules, different food, and a different language. It is a one-way trip. Rich assholes can easily own homes in multiple countries and travel as they please. Sometimes they get citizenship in a new country, like Trump’s “friend” Thiel did in New Zealand, because their money allows it.

  35. 35
    sherparick says:

    @Chyron HR: For the first 12 hours, the White House and the right-wing media outlets were smugly bragging about it.

  36. 36
    eclare says:

    @MomSense: Yes, very touching and emotional.

  37. 37
    eclare says:

    @rk: That was unbelievable. The woman was wearing a hospital gown and didn’t seem to be able to talk. Thank goodness the right person was walking by with a cell phone at the right time.

  38. 38
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Raven: I’ve never been to an Olympics so have no point of reference as to how the crowds skew.

  39. 39
    Leto says:

    @MomSense: Every time I read that phrase, the lyrics go through my head. I think it was also about 5th grade the first time I heard it, but I know we sang it in high school for concert choir.

  40. 40
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    It’s been going through my head a lot recently. Seventh grade for me, I think.

  41. 41
    catclub says:


    That plaque has noble statements written on it.

    yeah, but why does it say “Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates”? when those gates are more likely sunrise gates?
    I detect a sunsetist conspiracy.

  42. 42
    eclare says:

    If anyone wants to see a very good movie about a young woman immigrating here from Ireland in either the late 40’s or early 50’s, check out Brooklyn.

    Forgot to link, see next comment. Need more caffeine. OK, that is your link to the movie, have no idea how that happened.

  43. 43
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Gin & Tonic: So why would rich white people boo?

  44. 44
  45. 45
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I think that’s raven’s point.

  46. 46
    mai naem mobile says:

    Obviously Donnie Dollhands hasn’t watched House Hunters International and seen apt rents in Daresalaam and Nairobi at $5K/mo. Idiot would be sending his Corrupt Kids to make dills using Russian money to build apartment buildings.

  47. 47
    Raven says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I”ve been to two, LA and Atlanta. The winters are much more exclusive.

  48. 48
    Lapassionara says:

    @Betty Cracker: Thanks. Well worth reading the entire thread.

  49. 49
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Here @raven: he is hoping we get booed.

    My point is only that if people feel so inclined to protest America, I would hope they can find a way to differentiate between the athletes and America’s Criminal in Cheif.

  50. 50
    eclare says:

    @satby: So glad he has finally found his groove, although I hate the reason why.

  51. 51
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Raven: OK. Kinda doubt I’ll ever get to one, not because I wouldn’t enjoy the events but because of the costs, hassles, and spectacle.

  52. 52
    geg6 says:

    eclare, your link is borked. I tried to reply to you using the reply button and it took me to the Rotten Tomatoes website, not here.

    That said, I loved that movie.

  53. 53
    Amir Khalid says:

    Neither have I, but think about it Winter sports are dominated by mostly-white European and North American countries. Winter-sport athletes of colour are vanishingly rare. Winter sports, from the recreational level to world class competitions, take place in ski resort areas which are expensive to visit, and where residents and visitors of colour are rare. So the poor and/or nonwhite tend to get excluded as both fans and athletes.

  54. 54
    Matt McIrvin says:

    Was it Stephen Miller who flipped out in a press event and started snapping at someone about how that poem was a spurious late addition to the Statue of Liberty, not really an expression of our values at all? It was real VDARE stuff.

  55. 55
    eclare says:

    @geg6: I tried to fix the link in edit mode, and obviously I don’t know how to do that! Yes, I loved it too, great performances and story.

  56. 56
    maryQ says:

    I used to live in that country. It wasn’t perfect, but it was very good. I miss it.

  57. 57
    eclare says:

    @Matt McIrvin: I remember something like that, about the late addition so therefore it didn’t count.

  58. 58
    Tokyokie says:

    I lived in Norway for a year or so when I was still in school. The cuisine is rather appalling (every dish seems to be gray), but it’s a socially progressive country that is forthright in protecting its natural heritage. And the southwestern part of the country isn’t really that cold during the winter because of the gulf stream. If I were raising kids, I’d rather do it there than in a country with a sufficient number of hateful racists that an evil race-bating con man like the dotard could become president.

  59. 59
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    So the poor and/or nonwhite tend to get excluded as both fans and athletes.

    Not true not true! Remember the Jamaican bob sled team? Take THAT you elitist libtard!!!!

  60. 60
    Tokyokie says:

    @Amir Khalid: Well, a big reason for that is the Winter Games are for cold-weather sports, and countries near the equator (which is where you’ll find most of der Trumpenführer’s “shithole” nations) that have no subfreezing weather are at a serious disadvantage. The Winter Games are especially restricted. They have never been held in the Southern Hemisphere because they’d have to take place during what is summer for first world countries.

  61. 61
    Amir Khalid says:

    No doubt you also remember that scene from the movie, when the guys show up at the Olympic village and there’s all these white people staring at them …

  62. 62
    d58826 says:

    Well lets look on the bright side. Since Der Fuhrer isn’t going to Britain:
    1. the Queen doesn’t have to arrange a quick trip to Australia
    2. the Londoners can get back to arguing over important thinks like football
    3. and Harry can invite the Obamas to the wedding w/o causing an international incident.

    All in all Der Fuhrer did good (snark)

  63. 63
    satby says:

    @Tokyokie: point of order: Australia, Chile, and Argentina are considered first world countries.
    Edit: whoops, sorry New Zealand!

  64. 64
    Ocotillo says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Every D that can get in front of a microphone has to say that over and over. If the thugs want to pass something, they can and will pass it without any D votes. Look at the horrid tax bill, they wouldn’t even let Ds in the room let alone input. If they want the government to stay open, if they really want it to stay open, they don’t need a single D to do it.

  65. 65
    bystander says:


    …it’s a socially progressive country that is forthright in protecting its natural heritage.

    Protecting their natural resources is deeply engrained in Norwegian history. With such a low percentage of arable land, Norway has long made determinations based on the long term, not on one year’s crops.

    Bret Stephens just announced that the repub party is now the American equivalent of LePen’s National Front. For once, I agree with him.

  66. 66
    magurakurin says:

    @Baud: I hope to see some black gloves and raised fists at the Olympics.

  67. 67
    eclare says:

    @Ocotillo: I thought the R’s could only use reconciliation once during the fiscal year, which they did for the tax sham, which means they have to get 9 D’s?

  68. 68
    Amir Khalid says:

    And Aussie, Argentinean, and Chilean* winter-sport athletes (also mostly-white) must travel regularly to Europe and North America (or move there) for training and competition — a major cost obstacle for the less-than-rich.
    ETA: Kiwis too.

  69. 69
    satby says:

    @magurakurin: if I was an athlete from the USA, I would have to go on strike and refuse to represent the country while Shithole-in-Chief is president. It means an incredible sacrifice on the part of any athlete who would, but it would be a powerful display of courage and patriotism.

  70. 70
    MomSense says:

    @Leto: @SiubhanDuinne:

    I found it very moving even then.

  71. 71
    Ocotillo says:

    @eclare: That is true, my assumption is they would not filibuster. I actually think the bigger problem are the malcontents in the Freedom Caucus in the House.

  72. 72
    magurakurin says:

    @satby: In addition to the season, the extreme high altitude and access would be problematic in the Andes. New Zealand is probably the most realistic place to hold games in the Southern Hemisphere.

  73. 73

    Have we talked about how Hoyer is all offended that Pelosi quipped that the “five white guys” in charge of immigration talks should open a “hamburger stand”?

  74. 74
    bemused says:


    A wonderful movie! Beautifully done.

  75. 75
    raven says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I was able to WALK to all the Olympic Soccer games here in Athens! That and I got in almost every game for less than $5!

  76. 76
    magurakurin says:

    @raven: cool!

  77. 77
    raven says:

    @satby: That’s easy for you to say. Check back on the people that didn’t get to go to Moscow after a lifetime of work.

  78. 78
    ChrisS says:

    “which means they have to get 9 D’s?”

    True. Sounds like a GOP problem to me.

  79. 79

  80. 80
    eclare says:

    @ChrisS: Totally agree….

  81. 81
    DissidentFish says:

    Historical fact: During the US Civil War, there were two places where CSA navy and merchants ships were not allowed to dock for supplies/trade. The United States, obviously. And Haiti.

    Sh*thole my ass. I don’t know how much more of this guy I can take without drinking.

  82. 82
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Amir Khalid: Never saw the movie. Is it worth it?

  83. 83
    Tokyokie says:

    @Amir Khalid: Even in a well-to-do country like Switzerland, the athletes on the pro skiing circuit are usually from rich families. I’ve heard that the top instructors in the Swiss Ski School system are among the best skiers in the world, but because they’re from more modest financial backgrounds, they’re teaching people to ski rather than competing at it.

  84. 84
    eclare says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Good video, well spoken, passionate.

  85. 85
    Leto says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Yes. Professional Squidward Tentacles (from Sponge Bob Square Pants) cosplayer, Stephen Miller went a few rounds over the Lazarus’ poem back in August with Jim Acosta: White House policy adviser downplays Statue of Liberty’s famous poem

  86. 86
    Tokyokie says:

    January 12, 2018 at 9:50 am
    “which means they have to get 9 D’s?”

    True. Sounds like a GOP problem to me.

    Nine D’s? Sounds like der Trumpenführer’s report card.

  87. 87
    SenyorDave says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Have we talked about how Hoyer is all offended that Pelosi quipped that the “five white guys” in charge of immigration talks should open a “hamburger stand”?

    My respect for pelosi just went up. Love to see Democrats take the House if for no other reason than Pelosi becoming Speaker. In any district with significant minority population Trump’s remarks should be put out front and center.

  88. 88
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @eclare: I think that was soooo 2017. (meaning I seem to remember they can use it again in 2018, but they don’t want to waste it on a gov’t shutdown)

  89. 89
    satby says:

    @raven: no, I understand what I’m saying. It would be the work of a lifetime that they’d be sacrificing, and for many their only chance.
    And I don’t expect any to boycott anyway.

  90. 90
    Leto says:

    @MomSense: It started to take on more resonance for me in high school as I learned more about history, but definitely moving.

  91. 91
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Wow. Kudos to Durbin for calling President Shithole out as a racist and a liar. I also like Durbin’s suggestion that they cut Trump out of the DACA negotiations and see if they can come up with the votes in congress. I doubt they will because the craven worms in the GOP are bound to the Shithole, but it’s worth a shot.

  92. 92
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @raven: I am jealous. If catfish noodling or cow tipping ever become Olympic sports maybe they’ll bring them to the Ozarks.

  93. 93
    Leto says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Does it work on fiscal year or calendar year?

  94. 94
    magurakurin says:

    @satby: it would be a more powerful protest if they won a medal and took a knee on the stand. But that would also entail great risk.

  95. 95
    LAO says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: In general, I find the xenophobia of the Olympics to be awful but here’s one athelete I’ll be rooting for Maame Biney. 17 years old, born in that shithole Ghana — from her official bio:

    Would like to be a chemical engineer…Started speed skating at the age of 6…Was told she was going to fast to be a figure skater so switched to speed skating…Participated in taekwondo up until 2015…In high school she was known for being way too happy all of the time…She can do chemistry all day…If she could have a superpower she would stop time for as long as she wanted to…Favorite place speed skating has taken you: Austria…Favorite speed skating moment: Watching the 2014 Olympic Trials…Favorite quote: “Laugh until you can’t laugh anymore”…Favorite food: Any type of meat…Favorite music: Pop…Favorite movie: Titanic – it makes her cry every time

    ETA: Literally the definition of “as American as apple pie” except for her pesky skin tone.

  96. 96
    Amir Khalid says:

    Cool Runnings is an okay movie. As sports-themed movies go, its story is quite conventional with no real surprises. But it does hint at the not-so-subtle racism the real-life team faced in that lily-white, hypercompetitive environment.

  97. 97
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @raven: And with the knowledge that THIS Olympics will in all likelihood be your ONLY Olympics.

  98. 98
    MomSense says:


    We had sponsored some families from Vietnam and the kids had told us terrible stories about being chased by soldiers with dogs. It took my friend a long time before she learned not to be afraid of our dog. I think that knowing what they went through made the song speak to me.

  99. 99
    bemused says:

    I had never heard of rightwing talk show host John Fredericks but Rick Wilson who doesn’t mince words really tore into the guy on CNN Don Lemon show. “I will gut you like a fish on this show”. Longer video at the Hill and Mediaite.

  100. 100

    @Another Scott:
    He’s dictating to someone who cleans up the syntax. He can’t type reliably anymore. His hands shake too much.

  101. 101
    satby says:

    @magurakurin: that would work too.
    I was speaking of me personally not going if I was an Olympic level athlete, and of course I’m not. Though I could compete pretty well in the “futile gestures of opposition” category, because I have my whole life.

  102. 102
    eclare says:

    @Tokyokie: Perfect!

  103. 103
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Leto: As I understand it, calendar year. I had thought it could only be used once per session but this article said once per year. This is IF I remember the article correctly and IF the article was in fact correct.

    sigh.… it sucks getting old. On the bright side, soon I will not be able to remember what I forgot.

  104. 104
    magurakurin says:

    @satby: you and me both

  105. 105
    eclare says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I thought they had to wait til the next fiscal year, which starts October 1? Of course the GOP has blown up every other norm to loot the country, so if that isn’t in the Constitution, which I have no idea, guess that could go too.

    ETA> Oh, and agree they wouldn’t waste it on a budget resolution when they could take health care away from millions more, or SS, or Medicare.

  106. 106
    magurakurin says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: there are some iron men and women though. Ski jumper Noriaki Kasai is about to go to his eighth Olympic games.

  107. 107
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    Though I could compete pretty well in the “futile gestures of opposition” category,

    You’d get some pretty tuff competition from around here.

  108. 108
    magurakurin says:

    @Amir Khalid: I like Cool Runnings a lot.

  109. 109
    Spanky says:

    I automatically filled in the post title with “Remember, Remember, the 5th of November”. Not at all on topic. It could be though, depending on where things continue to go….

    @Gin & Tonic: Missed an update on your wife, if there was one.

  110. 110
    eclare says:

    @LAO: There are also three US women from Houston who are of Nigerian descent competing in the bobsled for Nigeria.

  111. 111

    Schumer is a tough son of a bitch, to everyone’s surprise. If he doesn’t like the budget, he will filibuster it. Guaranteed.

  112. 112
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @magurakurin: For sure, see one Michael Phelps, but they are by far the exception. Most Olympic athletes have a peak that lasts for a very short time, plus they have to make a living and training cuts into that activity a lot. Most of them never get close to a medals stand, most never make it to the final heats.

    Simply competing in the Olympics is their only reward. Until the day they die, Olympic Athlete will be attached to their name.

  113. 113
    Amir Khalid says:

    And it has Jimmy Cliff’s cover of Johnny Nash’s I Can See Clearly Now, that beautiful song about hope reborn.

  114. 114

    @eclare: Ironically, reconciliation rules were created for budgets. And it’s bound to fiscal year, but most importantly, they’ve already said they don’t want to use it again.

  115. 115
    LAO says:

    @eclare: I find myself more surprised by the “from Houston” aspect of the bobsled team, than the Nigerian part!

  116. 116
    magurakurin says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: no doubt, exceptions and not the rule. Timing is important for Olympic athletes.

  117. 117

    Kind of getting a Mueller-news-tonight vibe, anybody else?

  118. 118
    eclare says:

    @LAO: Yeah! I have no idea where they train, but they are all former track athletes, which they said helped.

  119. 119
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Pretty cool:

    The notorious 18th-century pirate Blackbeard may have whiled away the hours between raids by curling up with a good book, according to a new discovery.

    Archaeological conservators in North Carolina working on the wreckage of Blackbeard’s flagship, the Queen Anne’s Revenge, found 16 tiny fragments of paper “in a mess of wet sludge” that had been in the chamber of a cannon. They worked for months to conserve the fragments, the largest of which was the size of a US quarter, discovering as they worked that a few words were still visible on some of the fragments.

    After months of work, the researchers have determined that the fragments came from the 1712 book by Captain Edward Cooke, A Voyage to the South Sea, and Round the World, Perform’d in the Years 1708, 1709, 1710 and 1711.

  120. 120
    JR says:

    @bystander: He’s been waffling like a motherfucker this year. Maybe this will finally get him to admit what everyone else knows.

  121. 121
    trollhattan says:

    There’s one Norwegian Trump can relate to: Anders Breivik. Stevie Miller probably has his portrait on his mantle.

  122. 122
    eclare says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I think an attorney here said it was unlikely because courts/federal government will be closed on Monday.

  123. 123

    @eclare: last year there was often a leak dump before such weekends.

  124. 124
    trollhattan says:

    In the unlikely event He, Trump attends the opening ceremony then give him shit, just leave the athletes out of the kerfuffle. They’re there for the dual role of competing and citizen diplomacy. We need to forge bonds while Rome burns because some distant day, the fire will go out.

  125. 125
    Quinerly says:

    @Skippy-san: I actually hope we are booed too.

  126. 126
    rp says:

    Greenwald thinks he’s nailed the Democrats to the wall with his totally sick burn: You can’t say you oppose Trump if you voted to reauthorize 702.

    This is really Greenwald in a nutshell: a clever rhetorical trick that doesn’t stand up to the slightest scrutiny and ultimately accomplishes nothing other than serving his brand.

  127. 127
    eclare says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Thought you were talking about indictments, if you’re just talking about leaking something to ice some people for a three day weekend, I love it!

  128. 128


    This is really Greenwald in a nutshell: a clever rhetorical trick that doesn’t stand up to the slightest scrutiny

    You forgot the part where when called on it he tries to defend himself with three 10,000-word gish gallop updates.

  129. 129
    Quinerly says:

    @Another Scott: I’m glad to see he is getting himself all worked up before his physical today. It would really bad if he threw a blood clot.😈 Wonder if he has to do a stress test today?

  130. 130
    cain says:

    I’ve been enjoying Bob Schneiders twitter feed. He’s a former republican who converted to Democratic and he’s just been going after the Donald like noobody’s business. But he’s unabashed at his criticisms calling out everyone and he feels no remorse.

  131. 131
    rp says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Good point. And those gish gallops allow him to avoid addressing substantive criticisms directly.

  132. 132

    @Baud: I think most people can separate citizenry from the government. Even when Bushie was President, people criticized Bush but took extra care to specify that they knew not all Americans loved the steps he was taking regarding Iraq etc. Anyway that was my experience.

  133. 133
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Quinerly: He can pick and choose what he releases to the public about his medical exam. He’ll only release the party’s that make him appear to be in the best of health. We need legislation making such exams accessible to all.

  134. 134
    SenyorDave says:

    @rp: Greenwald should GFH, Trump’s racism doesn’t seem to bother him in the least, I’m guessing its a feature, not a bug to Greenewald.

  135. 135
    trollhattan says:

    Being a dyed-in-the-wool libertarian GG supports anything that reduces the size and/or effectiveness of (our) country–Drumpf does both. Oddly, he sets this overarching philosophy aside for Russia, which is inexplicable to my tiny brain.

  136. 136
    raven says:

    Ambassador to Panama resigned.

  137. 137

    @raven: Obama holdover or T appointee?

  138. 138
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    IMaybe there’ll be another hilarious, unprofessional testament to Trump’s spectacularly robust health from Dr Harold Bornstein.

  139. 139
    glopy b says:

    @mai naem mobile: i love House Hunters International!

    Now days, I think I should be taking notes for future reference.

  140. 140
    Spanky says:

    @raven: We had one of those?

  141. 141
    japa21 says:

    Regarding the Olympics, I hope our flag carrier dips the flag like every other country does out of respect for the host country. I have felt this way for a long time, but it would be specially significant this year.

  142. 142
    germy says:


    NPR this AM only said it once during Morning Edition, then called it a "vulgarity" that "some" are calling racist for the rest of the hour.
    That doesn't accurately convey what POTUS said. It makes it seem like his critics may be overreacting
    — Apocalyptica (@ApocalypticaNow) January 12, 2018

  143. 143
    tobie says:

    @germy: Whatever happened to NPR? I used to listen to All Things Considered every evening, when cooking. Now I just turn on music. They’ve become the epitome of both-siderism, facts be damned.

  144. 144

    @tobie: They get a lot of funding from the Koch Brothers, can’t bite the hand that feeds them.
    I am speculating, of course.

  145. 145
    japa21 says:

    Penzey’s has done it again.

    1/23/18 is the 75th anniversary of Casablanca’s release. It’s a great reminder of the human cost when we forget our shared humanity. Call it Nazism, Nationalism, Fascism, Trump/Ryan Republicanism, all begin with fear of the other, profess greatness lies in hurting the vulnerable, and unchecked, end in inhumanity beyond fathoming

    Seventy-fifth anniversaries are important. Huge destructive events that shape human history leave everyone who experienced them changed forever. Those experiencing these events go on to raise their children to never allow the seeds of that destruction to sprout again. But 75 years later, their children have aged past the point where they can hold sway over the politics of the day. Somewhere around the 75-year mark we forget, and once again a door that should always be triple bolted cracks open and the forces of unimaginable pain and destruction have their chance to creep back in again.

    It’s been said that Casablanca is timeless, but watching it today, I believe it’s more timely now than at any point since its release. My advice is, don’t wait until the 23rd, get a copy now. iTunes has a pretty good deal where for $10 you own the film and a couple of nice extras.

    Rick: “I don’t buy or sell human beings.”

    Ferrari: “Too bad, that’s Casablanca’s leading commodity.”

    Casablanca is entertainment, but it’s also a piece of our history. January 23, 1943 is half the distance between today and the end of Slavery. It’s also less than a quarter of the way from the time where women first won the right to vote to today, where the more qualified, more stable woman still doesn’t get elected. Does Casablanca document the discrimination of its day? Absolutely. But what makes Casablanca for the ages is how it works in such a human way to show how the misuse of power is never a victimless crime, and how heroes don’t look the other way. Good stuff.

    And maybe, like me, you’ve seen Casablanca now and again over the years, each time finding something new of value. This time, please pay extra attention to what’s happening for the 75 seconds from 9:00 to 10:15. Yes, that is the Deutsche Bank they are speaking of, the very bank at the heart of the collusion and obstruction that may well bring down all three branches of our government before this year is over. If only our President were as much of an American as Humphrey Bogart’s Rick, our nation’s values would be far more secure.

    Bolding done by me. It seems they are getting more strident with each posting. This was obviously written prior to yesterday’s crap.

  146. 146

    @trollhattan: it’s perfectly understandable if you look at it through the lens of him being compromised by Russia (whether he knows it or not), ever since the Snowden thing.

  147. 147
    germy says:

    @tobie: @schrodingers_cat: Little by little they started featuring “viewpoints” from people like megyan mcardle and jonah goldberg, who weaved their talking points in very subtly without most listeners even understanding what was happening. Moira liasson was another subtle one who was virtually subliminal in her anti-obama reporting.

    You’re right, it all boils down to who funds NPR.

  148. 148
    bemused says:


    Has NPR featured viewpoints by exiled conservatives like Jennifer Rubin, David Frum, Bruce Bartlett, Charlie Sykes, etc?

  149. 149

    @Major Major Major Major:
    And the strawmen. Oh, how GG loves a strawman. I return time and again to his perfect classic, that Democrats criticize GG for praising Ron Paul because we like killing babies and (understandably!) don’t want to admit it.

  150. 150

    @Frankensteinbeck: am I supposed to be hiding the baby-killing?‽? These San Francisco values have really clouded my mind.

  151. 151
    germy says:


    Has NPR featured viewpoints by exiled conservatives like Jennifer Rubin, David Frum, Bruce Bartlett, Charlie Sykes, etc?

    I honestly don’t know. I listen to classical music and old jazz. My wife has public radio on while she sews and I mostly tune it out. Sometimes she’ll raise her voice to argue with something she heard said by a guest.

    I suppose NPR would argue they’re going for “balance” but we really don’t need to hear mccardle or goldberg or liasson. Those people are provided enough outlets to spew their talking points. NPR was supposed to be an antidote to those voices, not an amplification.

  152. 152

    @germy: I’ve heard Frum on several times.

  153. 153
    cain says:


    I don’t think Harry is off the hook. It will be important that he does not invite Obama at all. If he does, there will be hell to pay. What would probably happen is that they’ll give him an inviation but warn him that protestors will be everywhere and he’ll do his usual “I was given an invite, but I decided to pass, I’m working for America!” then goes golfing.

  154. 154
    Aleta says:


    US Ambassador to Panama John Feeley, a career diplomat and former Marine Corps helicopter pilot, has resigned, telling the State Department he no longer feels able to serve President Donald Trump.

    “As a junior foreign service officer, I signed an oath to serve faithfully the president and his administration in an apolitical fashion, even when I might not agree with certain policies. My instructors made clear that if I believed I could not do that, I would be honor bound to resign. That time has come,” Mr Feeley said, according to an excerpt of his resignation letter read to Reuters.

  155. 155
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Spanky: Late update on a probably-dying thread, but I just got back from the hospital. She’s a little better, but still has a long way to go. At this point they’ve ruled out everything but the pneumonia. That’s treatable, but takes time. She will probably stay as an inpatient until Sunday at this rate.

  156. 156
    cain says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Have we talked about how Hoyer is all offended that Pelosi quipped that the “five white guys” in charge of immigration talks should open a “hamburger stand”?

    Hoyer should shut the fuck up. The comment was apt. Why is it we have old white guys running eveyrthing these days?

  157. 157
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Another info item on a dying thread, about the “rich people’s Olympics” comment. I have two friends whose kids were competitive downhill ski racers, at the club and college level. Reaching national-team level, at least in the USA or Canada, would cost, in round numbers, about $100k/yr per racer for at least 5 years or so, and probably $50k/yr for a few years before that, starting at age 10-11. It’s more or less a full-time occupation, with no guarantee of success, and the difference between elite and also-ran can be fractions of a second. I suspect figure skating costs close to that as well.

  158. 158
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @cain: I don’t get why Harry shouldn’t invite Obama.

  159. 159
    Spanky says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Good news, I’d say. Yeah it takes time to knock down pneumonia, and especially after discharge. I hope for your sake that she’s a better patient than I would be. I suspect my wife would end up handcuffing me to the bed, and not in a good way.

  160. 160
    Spanky says:


    Why is it we have old white guys running eveyrthing these days?

    Because “these days” date back a few thousand years. I’m happy to let the younger folks I know take the reins, and they’re (mostly) all women that (sometimes) shade a bit darker than lily white.

  161. 161
    Spanky says:

    @Gin & Tonic: If you substitute “Trump” in there it make a lot more sense.

  162. 162
    LeeM says:

    @cain: You mean Trump, right?

  163. 163
    bemused says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Good to know they don’t ignore at least some conservatives who don’t walk lockstep with the Republican party.

  164. 164
    WaterGirl says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Going in the right direction is huge! So I’m grateful for that.

  165. 165
    satby says:

    @Gin & Tonic: hope she’s feeling better soon. Pneumonia is nothing to fool around with.

  166. 166

    Right on cue the 3rd-most-useless lefty friend of mine on Facebook is making a ruckus about that Greenwald article.

  167. 167
    cain says:


    @cain: You mean Trump, right?

    Yep. he’l give some excuse or something. You can fucking bet that Harry’s bride is not going to be welcoming this asshole since you know part of her family comes from an African heritage.

  168. 168
    rp says:

    @Major Major Major Major: It’s a profoundly stupid argument.

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