Capo di Tutti Capi

Here’s another part of the Trump interview that Joy Ann Reid highlights. Betty has covered part of this, but I think Trump’s attitude on this is important for Democratic strategy.

Let’s see his words.

SCHMIDT: Do you think Holder was more loyal to. …

TRUMP: I don’t want to get into loyalty, but I will tell you that, I will say this: Holder protected President Obama. Totally protected him. When you look at the I.R.S. scandal, when you look at the guns for whatever, when you look at all of the tremendous, ah, real problems they had, not made-up problems like Russian collusion, these were real problems. When you look at the things that they did, and Holder protected the president. And I have great respect for that, I’ll be honest, I have great respect for that.

He rambles about Joe Manchin, Luther Strange, and Roy Moore for a while, and then

O.K., let’s get onto your final question, your other question. Had the Democrats come through. …

SCHMIDT: Tell me about that, yeah.

TRUMP: Had they asked, “Let’s do a bipartisan,” Michael, I would have done bipartisan. I would absolutely have done bipartisan.

SCHMIDT: But they didn’t. … They didn’t …

TRUMP: And if I did bipartisan, I would have done something with SALT [the state and local tax deduction]. With that being said, you look back, Ronald Reagan wanted to take deductibility away from states. Ronald Reagan, years ago, and he couldn’t do it. Because New York had a very powerful group of people. Which they don’t have today. Today, they don’t have the same representatives. You know, in those days they had Lew Rudin and me. … I fought like hell for that. They had a lot of very good guys. Lew Rudin was very effective. He worked hard for New York. And we had some very good senators. … You know, we had a lot of people who fought very hard against, let’s call it SALT. Had they come to me and said, look, we’ll do this, this, this, we’ll do [inaudible]. I could have done something with SALT. Or made it less severe. But they were very ineffective. They were very, very ineffective. You understand what I mean. Had they come to me for a bipartisan tax bill, I would have gone to Mitch, and I would have gone to the other Republicans, and we could have worked something out bipartisan. And that could’ve been either a change to SALT or knockout of SALT.

But, just so you understand, Ronald Reagan wanted to take deductibility away and he was unable to do it. Ronald Reagan wanted to have ANWR approved 40 years ago and he was unable to do it. Think of that. And the individual mandate is the most unpopular thing in Obamacare, and I got rid of it. You know, we gained with the individual. … You know the individual mandate, Michael, means you take money and you give it to the government for the privilege of not having to pay more money to have health insurance you don’t want. There are people who had very good health insurance that now are paying not to have health insurance. That’s what the individual mandate. … They’re not going to have to pay anymore. So when people think that will be unpopular. … It’s going to be very popular. It’s going to be very popular.

Now, in my opinion, they should come to me on infrastructure. They should come to me, which they have come to me, on DACA. We are working. … We’re trying to something about it. And they should definitely come to me on health care. Because we can do bipartisan health care. We can do bipartisan infrastructure. And we can do bipartisan DACA.

I’ve bolded the parts that are out of “The Godfather.” Trump evidently believes that “bipartisan” means that the Democrats come to him and kiss his ring. It’s not clear whether he would then, out of the generosity of his heart, grant anything that the Democrats might want or if he simply expects them to sign on to his and the Republicans’ agenda.

A fair bit of commentary observed that aspects of the tax bill, including the removal of state and local tax deduction, seemed punitive to blue states. Trump just confirmed that.

Had they come to me and said, look, we’ll do this, this, this, we’ll do [inaudible]. I could have done something with SALT. Or made it less severe.

All Democratic negotiations with Congress and the Administration have to take this into account. I don’t see a good answer. It appears that he’s willing to punish the country until the Democrats kiss the ring.






185 replies
  1. 1
    Miss Bianca says:

    “STOP MAKING ME HURT ALL THESE INNOCENT PEOPLE!! IT’S SO EASY! DOING THE BIPARTISAN JUST MEANS BENDING THE KNEE TO ME! WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE SO STUBBORN?!”

  2. 2
    hedgehog the occasional commenter says:

    The Democrats need to tell Dolt where he can put his ring.
    No quarter. No compromise.

  3. 3
    mathguy says:

    Kissing his ring would not make a damn bit of difference. Ask all of the contractors he screwed.

  4. 4
    JR says:

    Princes are not bound to give an account of their Actions but to God alone.

  5. 5
    cleek says:

    the thing is, Trump has always said he wanted to do the tax thing with the Dems’ help. the Congressional GOP, however, said No Way – and you know they meant it because they took the reconciliation path, where they didn’t need any Dem votes at all.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/18/trump-bipartisan-tax-reform-group-243923

    Trump really doesn’t even understand his own stupid party.

  6. 6
    Amir Khalid says:

    @mathguy:
    Concur. Plus, once he knows he can get you to kiss the ring, there’ll be other things he wants you to kiss.

  7. 7

    @cleek: This is a good point. I’ve been wondering how coordinated Trump and the Republicans really are on some of these issues, including “the bipartisan.” It’s possible that Trump really wants the Democrats to kiss up to him as the Godfather, but the Republicans want no part of “the bipartisan.”

  8. 8
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    2018 is going to be worse. It is going to be the year when he demands fealty and active toadying or else he’ll hurt people. However deranged and incompetent he might be, he still has power.

    And I get why the NYT’s Access White House team thinks it’s fine to let Crazy Authoritarian Grandpa ramble for half an hour, but I don’t get why they refuse to contextualize it:

    “See how revealing it is when he’s unfiltered?”
    “So what does it reveal?”
    “LA LA LA CAN’T HEAR YOU!”

  9. 9

    No co-operation with traitors.

  10. 10
    Jay S says:

    @cleek: Yes, Trump seems to believe he has enough influence with congress to make them do bipartisan. Not much evidence of that. He probably could if he held more sway with the Trump loyalists than McConnell and Ryan. He could cut the legs out from under them forcing them to get democrats votes, but the net result would be unhappy Trumpsters.

  11. 11
    rikyrah says:

    Trump says approval stacks up to Obama’s despite Russia probe
    The Hill
    Max Greenwood

    President Trump boasted on Friday that his approval rating is largely on par with that of former President Barack Obama at the same point in his tenure in the White House.

    “While the Fake News loves to talk about my so-called low approval rating, @foxandfriends just showed that my rating on Dec. 28, 2017, was approximately the same as President Obama on Dec. 28, 2009, which was 47% … and this despite massive negative Trump coverage & Russia hoax!” Trump wrote on Twitter.

    While the Fake News loves to talk about my so-called low approval rating, @foxandfriends just showed that my rating on Dec. 28, 2017, was approximately the same as President Obama on Dec. 28, 2009, which was 47%…and this despite massive negative Trump coverage & Russia hoax!
    – Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 29, 2017
    The tweet appears to be reference a recent poll conducted by the conservative-leaning Rasmussen Reports, which pegged Trump’s approval at 46 percent. The Real Clear Politics average puts his approval at 39.3 percent.

  12. 12
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    I think it’s more than just the US government – I think “all you need to do is kiss my ring” applies to trade, allies and even North Korea in Trump’s mind.

  13. 13
    Downpuppy says:

    Going back to the shutdown bill, on November 28, there was supposed to be a negotiation, but Twitler couldn’t be decent for 10 minutes and it had to be called off.

    No, you can’t work with that.

    Meeting with “Chuck and Nancy” today about keeping government open and working. Problem is they want illegal immigrants flooding into our Country unchecked, are weak on Crime and want to substantially RAISE Taxes. I don’t see a deal

    !

  14. 14
    Chip Daniels says:

    If they want anything other than total obstruction and implacable hostility, they need to articulate some vision of a compromise that we can live with.
    Right now their only vision is one where women and minorities are subservient to white men.

    There isn’t really any “worse than that” scenario they offer.

  15. 15
    laura says:

    Crazy grampa “president” only values loyalty; and it’s only a one-way street; loyalty to Me.
    To him, that business about protecting and defending the Constitution matters not one whit.
    I’d sure like to see the Constitution used as framing because it puts norms in context and is our anchor.

  16. 16
    dmsilev says:

    So, where are the obvious follow-up questions, like ‘what would bipartisan tax reform look like?’ or ‘Why didn’t you reach out to the Democrats if ‘doing bipartisan’ was so important? Etc.

  17. 17
    Jager says:

    A Godfather type broadcaster from New York I knew quite well, bought a west coast country music station, at his first sales meeting after he took over, he spotted a black guy. He said, “How can a n****r sell a country station?” He was shocked when he got sued over his comment. He thought he was “just being honest’. Yes, I’ve heard he loves trump.

  18. 18
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I’m just waiting to see what phony scandal where Holder “protected” Obama is ginned up by next Wednesday’s episode of Fox and Friends

  19. 19
    Roger Moore says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    the Republicans want no part of “the bipartisan.”

    I think the Republicans would be happy to do “the bipartisan” as they understand it, i.e. they write the legislation and the Democrats give them enough votes to pass it that they have cover for the damage it does.

  20. 20
    rikyrah says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    No co-operation with traitors.

    Bottom line.

  21. 21
    Chip Daniels says:

    If he wants to play by Godfather rules, lets get it on.
    After the 2018 midterms, he can have our answer, if he likes.

    Nothing. Our offer is nothing.
    And you can even pay the license fee.

    That is, no judicial appointments. No bills passed. No funding for the wall, or anything else he wants.
    Nothing but endless investigations and hearings into his finances.

  22. 22
    scav says:

    How coordinated could the man be with apparently those amorphous set of menials that apparently only become visible when needed to take the blame for when something doesn’t reflect well on him? Visible for Roy Moore, vanished as he asserts personal, whimsical and complete power of what’s in or not in the tax-smash-and-grab that took how long and how many times to squeek by? He’s intemittently unipartisan at best — which would be fun to watch grate upon the cast of equally narcissistic spotlight hungry Congressional enablers, except that His Orangeness is so untethered as to what is actually popular or not.

  23. 23
    Kelly says:

    Democrats need voting rights as the headline for our agenda. Everything else is within reach if voting is an inalienable right.

  24. 24
    Sab says:

    Didn’t Schumer and Pelosi have a big supposed bipartisan deal with Trump about DACA that never materialized because Trump snd his underlings and Republicans in Congress were too racist and tribal to follow through? We cooperated, nothing came of it. I think our leadership knows what they are doing. Not blatantly intransigent, just realistic and determined.

    The MSM hates Nancy Pelosi because she is really phucking good at her job. I just wish we had better folks in the pipeline. Kristen Gillibrand is the polar opposite- everything is about her and nothing is about the party or the country.

  25. 25
    rikyrah says:

    @Chip Daniels:

    If he wants to play by Godfather rules, lets get it on.
    After the 2018 midterms, he can have our answer, if he likes.

    Nothing. Our offer is nothing.
    And you can even pay the license fee.

    That is, no judicial appointments. No bills passed. No funding for the wall, or anything else he wants.
    Nothing but endless investigations and hearings into his finances.

    PREACH IT!!

    TELL IT!!

  26. 26
    lowtechcyclist says:

    @Jay S: Yeah, Trump doesn’t understand what’s going on sufficiently to “do bipartisan.” So he’s got no influence over Mitch and Ryan. They don’t want to ‘do bipartisan’ so it ain’t happening.

    They need Dem votes for the next CR, though, and as I said in the previous thread, the Dems should exploit that advantage to the max.

  27. 27
    Betty Cracker says:

    @cleek: Bingo. I think the Democratic leadership understands that and has tried to sow discord between Trump and the GOP congress, but it’s tough because McConnell, Ryan, et al, are willing to flat-out lie about what’s in their bills, confident that Trump is too incurious to find out. And they are willing to bow and scrape to flatter Trump into going along.

  28. 28
    MikeEss says:

    I hear “kiss the ring” related to T***p and the Democrats and I see that picture of T***p in a restaurant sitting with Mitt Romney, the yellowish light framing them, as Romney is trying to suck up to T***p to get a choice job in the new administration, and T***p is enjoying the hell out of humiliating Romney, knowing full well Romney could get on his knees and beg and T***p wouldn’t do a thing for him…

    That’s what I expect would happen if Pelosi and Schumer came to the head of the T***p crime syndicate and tried to work with him…

  29. 29
    debbie says:

    Trump thin[k]s being president means he can do whatever he wants.

    He thinks that because CEOs get to do whatever they want. And especially because he has no shareholders, he’s never had to be accountable to anyone.

  30. 30
    balconesfault says:

    Seems almost naïve that Trump seems to believe that he had any control over the Tax legislative process at all.

    Clearly McConnell and Ryan felt that Trump would sign whatever bill landed on his desk, no questions asked, and proceeded as such.

    Had Trump called on them to consider Democratic concerns, they’d have blown him off, and they know he’d have still signed.

  31. 31
    trollhattan says:

    @Sab:
    Pelosi-haters (you know who you are) all underestimate her political capabilities and either ignore or lie about her accomplishments. By all means, primary her and attempt replacing her with a shiny new freshman congressman sporting the latest in Dem emoware. She’ll wipe the floor with you and go on with doing her job.

    I’m still getting a read on Gillibrand–being on the other coast makes her a bit of a cypher. I would, however, love to watch her debate Trump, which would be fvcking epic.

  32. 32
    El Caganer says:

    The bipartisan? The cyber? What fucking language is this? It’s certainly not English as I recognize it.

  33. 33
    FoundOnWeb says:

    Earlier this year, David Brin suggested that, rather than raging against Executive Branch reality, we pick some “Short Straw Democrats”, to flatter Trump as a way of pushing the Democratic agenda. Looks like that might have worked, if they tried it.
    http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/.....-down.html

  34. 34
    pluky says:

    @laura: What he calls “loyalty” is better termed “fealty”.

  35. 35
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Sab: What are you basing your assessment of Gillibrand on?

  36. 36
    matt says:

    The good answer is ‘fuck these motherfuckers until they’re dead’. There’s no longer a country here, it’s just some good people and the scum trying to rule over them.

  37. 37
    pamelabrown53 says:

    @dmsilev: @#16.
    Exactly! BTW, excellent hypothetical follow-up questions.

  38. 38
    debbie says:

    Kurt Eichenwald:

    Ive now heard from small business owners I know that they have discovered in fury that their taxes are going up because of the GOP bill. More proof that the "I want a win, let's rush a bill in a couple of weeks changing the entire tax code" is not a good strategy. Policy matters.
    — Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) December 28, 2017

    Here are the Texas Republicans I know who have discovered, to their dismay, that they are NOT in the 1% (they thought they were) and their taxes are going up A LOT:
    1. Lawyers
    2. Doctors
    3. Dentists
    — Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) December 28, 2017

    There are reasons not to despair.

  39. 39
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    tried to sew discord

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

  40. 40
    trnc says:

    @cleek: If only someone, let’s say a Balloon Juice commenter, could come up with a handy explanation for republicans’ approach to policy. :-)

  41. 41

    @El Caganer:

    The bipartisan? The cyber? What fucking language is this? It’s certainly not English as I recognize it.

    Reid had something to say about that too.

  42. 42
    Chip Daniels says:

    @Kelly:

    Everything else is within reach if voting is an inalienable right.

    This, x1000.
    When everyone votes, Democrats win. When we get power in Congress and statehouses, we need an endless slew of voting rights bills and measures to crush voter suppression
    We don’t need the WWC and their economic anxiety. We need every member of the Democratic coalition to GOTV.

  43. 43
    trnc says:

    @balconesfault:

    Had Trump called on them to consider Democratic concerns

    Ha! Good one.

  44. 44
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Donald Trump knows nothing about leadership. All he knows is bullying.

    Bullies are shitty leaders.

  45. 45
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Knit one, perl two.

  46. 46
    trnc says:

    @trollhattan:

    I’m still getting a read on Gillibrand–being on the other coast makes her a bit of a cypher. I would, however, love to watch her debate Trump, which would be fvcking epic.

    But will Chuck Todd deem her “over-prepared,” or will he coin a shiny new phrase for her?

  47. 47
    debbie says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Most likely, Franken.

  48. 48
    rikyrah says:

    @debbie:

    OH WELL

    Sucks to be them.

  49. 49
    PRW says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Not discord, sew dat other cord!

  50. 50
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Kelly:

    Democrats need voting rights as the headline for our agenda. Everything else is within reach if voting is an inalienable right.

    This is a really important point, and I thank you for making it. Sometimes the sheer volume of “stuff that needs to be fixed” can be daunting to the point of despair. But voting is fundamental to all of it.

  51. 51
    debbie says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Not in corporations they aren’t.

  52. 52
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @debbie: ere are the Texas Republicans I know who have discovered, to their dismay, that they are NOT in the 1% (they thought they were) and their taxes are going up A LOT:

    a pet theory of mine about (white male) politics: they think they are or will be much richer than they are, and that if they don’t get a check every month from the gov’t, they don’t benefit from government programs, especially things like SALT and mortgage tax deductions

  53. 53
    StringOnAStick says:

    I had requested Al Franken’s latest book from the library right before that hit the news, and when it arrived I initially couldn’t decide to read it or not; I read it and I’m glad I did if only for the insights into the legislative process and just how long it takes to get anything done. One thing it showed me is just how old, white, male the Senate is, and that’s a big problem. Fortunately time will solve that in some cases. The other is that Citizens United must be removed as the law of the land; the effect of money is so corrosive and it is insane how much time elected officials have to spend sucking up to get more of it. That’s without even considering that CU allowed Russia to buy into PAC’s in the last election. I’m hoping one effect from Mueller’s investigation is to expose just how much foreign money and laundered money goes into PAC’s.

  54. 54
  55. 55
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @JR: Which is an open invitation to be put on a tumbrel.

  56. 56
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Knit one, perl two.

    Are you accusing me of knit-picking?

  57. 57
    JMG says:

    The Democrats have no incentive to respond to Trump at all. The Republicans are the majority. They have attempted to legislate without Democratic support or even input. Fine. If the R’s suddenly need Dem votes for something, the ONLY response is, “what’s in it for us?”

  58. 58
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @debbie: In the military, they tend to find themselves waking up dead when a grenade is rolled under their cot.

  59. 59
    Chip Daniels says:

    @JMG:
    Wot??!
    Play hardball politics?
    David Broder would roll over in his grave!

  60. 60
    debbie says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I think that’s because they only look backward (I’m better off than my father; I’ve been the most successful in my family; etc.) when they should be looking all around.

    I heard earlier this morning that credit card debt is the highest it’s been since the financial crash. Now, isn’t that just so typical of Americans?!?

  61. 61
    Bobby Thomson says:

    This is stupid. He doesn’t have the power he thinks he does, but he is consistently selling himself, whichever is what he’s always done. As Goebbels knew, you repeat the lie because repetition works. He works the lies in, even when they have nothing to do with the conversation, because that’s what he has always done and because it has always worked for him.

  62. 62
    les says:

    @debbie:

    Here are the Texas Republicans I know who have discovered, to their dismay, that they are NOT in the 1% (they thought they were)

    Fuckin’ idiots. Puts me in mind of the survey that found 50% of repubs thought they were in the top 10%. Reality has no bearing on conservative “thought.”

  63. 63
    debbie says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    It’s a lot tougher to penetrate the C-Suite to roll something under the board table.

  64. 64
    trollhattan says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Needlepoint, silly!

    “Discord is your last cord.”

  65. 65
    Sab says:

    @StringOnAStick: I read his book and was hopeful as a result. Now he’s gone. So where is my hope? I do want to know someday why the Dems folded so fast.

  66. 66
    Betty Cracker says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: It was a typo that I fixed pretty quickly. ;-) I really don’t understand the pedant gene. You’re eloquent — perhaps you can explain it to me? (Probably deserves its own thread.)

  67. 67
    les says:

    @Betty Cracker: (Probably deserves its own thread.)

    After all, can’t sew without it.

  68. 68
    les says:

    @les: Well, fuck a bunch of messed up blockquote. And fuck a bunch of no edit ability. And fuck a bunch of lost pie filter. If you want me to go away…no, ignore that last.

  69. 69

  70. 70
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    The pedant gene expresses itself differently in different pedants. I might have asked, “to sew discord … to datcord?”

  71. 71
    Sab says:

    @Betty Cracker: I do understand the pedantic gene , having it myself. There was a late night thread about six months ago when I corrected someone’s grammer, and then autocorrect damaged my spelling. Hilarity ensued for about an hour at my expense, because I was correcting their grammer when I couldn’t even spell.

  72. 72
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @debbie: Yup, aspirational wealth (in ten years, this house will be worth…) and a lack of understanding, on a gut level, what “net worth” really means. “The Democrats want to tax millionaires? Why, I’m practically a millionaire!”

  73. 73
    The Lodger says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Discord is not sewn. It is crocheted.

  74. 74
    les says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yup, aspirational wealth (in ten years, this house will be worth…) and a lack of understanding, on a gut level, what “net worth” really means.

    They also don’t get that they live in a country where the best predictor of kid’s wealth is now parents’ wealth. Politics is just another delusional religion.

  75. 75
    Sab says:

    @Betty Cracker: I do understand the pedantic gene , having it myself. There was a late night thread about six months ago when I corrected someone’s grammer, and then autocorrect damaged my spelling. Hilarity ensued for about an hour at my expense, because I was correcting their grammer when I couldn’t even spell.@Sab: @Sab:
    Thus proving that you reap what you sew. (sorry. I couldn’t not go there.)

  76. 76
    Ruckus says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    No co-operation with traitors.

    This. A million times this.
    Whatever he promises or thinks is in his head is bullshit. His entire life, his entire persona is BULLSHIT. It’s easier for him to lie than it is to breathe. He absolutely thinks he is king of the world, what he wants is for everyone else to agree. And it wouldn’t change anything. He’s not going to give in to anyone, no matter how much sucking up anyone does. He is a classic bully, who has gotten himself to a position of power, nothing will get him to give anyone anything. He treats the people that could give him what he talks about, congress, with the same contempt that he does everyone else. The only way to win with a bully is to defeat them. We have a system that allows that, abet not without partisan cooperation. And it’s obvious that our system of governing is broken.
    Crazy fucking people are in charge, we have to throw them out of office to survive.

  77. 77
    Amir Khalid says:

    It seems to me that no one has managed to disabuse den Scheißgibbon of his belief that President He is the boss of America. Is it because he throws a tantrum when you say that America is the boss of him?

  78. 78
    scav says:

    @The Lodger: Then again, there’s no reason to be sharp (or flat-footed either) about discord — it’s all natual.

  79. 79
    patrick II says:

    Is anyone else thinking of Naomi Klein’s “Shock Doctrine” when they see what is happening in Puerto Rico? Pre-hurricane, the PR had a debt of 72 billion, 49 billion in unfunded pensions, and a 45% unemployment rate. Then add on an estimated $95 billion to recover from the hurricane and a 45% unemployment rate.
    So, how does the republican tax bill help PR? By adding on a 20% excise tax for U.S. companies manufacturing in PR which will drive the economy into the ground. Unemployemnt and debt will go up, real estate will go down at which time Trump’s banker’s buddies will buy up much of the island at bargain prices.
    The wolves saw a chance to bring down a wounded animal economy, and they are going to kill it and eat it, including the people living there.

  80. 80
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    When we take control of much of Congress next year, we will see who will come to whom.

  81. 81
    mai naem mobile says:

    More like Capo de Tutti Frutti. Let the GOP deal with Crazy Ass Pants Diaper Don. They voted for him. Deal with him.

  82. 82
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Just saw this on Rick Perlstein’s FB page. Hadn’t seen or heard anything about it:

    All sixteen members of the Presidential Advisory Council on HIV/AIDS (PACHA) have been fired without warning or explanation, and overnight the White House website, HIV.gov, has been scrubbed of their names.

    My bolding. I guess they refused to kiss the ring or “do the bipartisan.”

  83. 83
    Ruckus says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    Or floating in the middle of the ocean without a life jacket or anyone knowing they no longer have a hard surface to stand on.

  84. 84
    Brachiator says:

    @cleek:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    the thing is, Trump has always said he wanted to do the tax thing with the Dems’ help. the Congressional GOP, however, said No Way – and you know they meant it because they took the reconciliation path, where they didn’t need any Dem votes at all.

    Really great point. Early on, some Republicans feared that Trump might be a moderate, so keeping the Democrats out helped alleviate those doubts.

    ETA. One of the original GOP tax outlines (before Trump became president or shortly after) contained items that might have appealed to Democrats. All that stuff was gone by the time of the GOP House Bill.

  85. 85
    MomSense says:

    @patrick II:

    yes. Real Estate on Puerto Rico is going to be cheap.

  86. 86
    MomSense says:

    @Brachiator:

    They didn’t even do hearings. There wasn’t a mechanism in the legislative process on the tax scam that made it possible for Dems to particpate.

  87. 87
    danielx says:

    Ni shagu nazad!

    Not one step back, for non-Russian speakers. NOT IN THE MOOD to support Dems compromising on any point whatsoever, nor yet to working with Trump on anything. Trump appears to regard bipartisanship as Democrats providing window dressing to whatever he wants to do. It’s documented that everything is a zero sum game to Trump; the concept of win/win does not exist for him. Cooperating with him or McConnell/Ryan would simply result in providing political cover while they do more damage.

    Unrelenting opposition seems to have worked out just fine for congressional republicans, after all. Not ready to make nice with Trump or Republicans and never will be.

    Note: read a comment in a previous thread that Trump supporters could read that interview and think everything is just fine with Dear Leader. Probably true, but my impression has been that not reading publications like NYT is a point of pride with Trump supporters – fake media, after all. A point that that Maggie Haberman and her ilk, including Dean Baquet, could study to their own considerable benefit.

  88. 88
    mike in dc says:

    1) Take control of congress
    2) Convene an investigation of Trump’s conduct towards women(and minorities). Subpoena and make public the Apprentice outtakes.
    3) Convene an investigation of Trump’s involvement in his businesses while president. Subpoena and publish his tax returns.
    4) Convene an impeachment inquiry in the House Judiciary committee. Formally request a report from Mueller on Trump’s involvement in Russiagate.
    5) Pass a bunch of progressive, popular legislation for Trump to veto(minimum wage increase, voting rights reform, criminal justice reform, true infrastructure spending, ACA fixes, etc,)

  89. 89
    NotMax says:

    In Dolt 45’s mind (such as it is), “the country,” “America,” “Trump” and “me” are exact and interchangeable synonyms.

  90. 90
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Sorry, I missed your correction. I can be annoying with pedantry, but in general I tend to let obvious typos and autocorrect gremlins slide by without comment — in no small measure because they plague me quite mercilessly! But I was reacting to your “sew” because I admire you as a meticulous writer and was trying to convey my shock that this one got by you.

    ETA: Especially because there have been several comments on the “sow”/”sew” distinction in the past couple of days.

  91. 91
    sheila in nc says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Knit one, perl two.

    Uh, super pedant here: it’s purl, not perl.
    A purl of great price!

  92. 92
    debbie says:

    @patrick II:

    Offensive that the GOP would do this to American citizens.

  93. 93
    NotMax says:

    @Sab>blockquote>because I was correcting their grammer when I couldn’t even spell

    grammar

    Presume you did it on purpose for effect?

    ;)

  94. 94
    LosGatosCA says:

    @mathguy:

    Absolutely true. This is just the House Teabagger Caucus scaled up.

    “Nice country you have there, be a shame if you didn’t surrender it to me. If not I’ll have to shoot the hostages (you).”

  95. 95
    Ruckus says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    He is a bully with power, where as most bullies only have power that their victims give them.
    The key is to not give in to him but that risks him using the power he does hold very badly. Which because he’s also a moron with dementia is a very real possibility and probability.
    Congress, being congress, goes along with him enough to get him to sign papers because they also know that he’s a bully, but he is marginally on their side. Congressional republicans are the guys who stand behind the school yard bully and threaten you into giving up your lunch money or you get beaten. Except in this case they have and use the power to beat you up anyway, after you’ve emptied your pockets.

  96. 96
    Ryan says:

    Hey, if the Democrats come pleading to Trump, at least rural broadband will become a reality, amirite?

  97. 97
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @patrick II:
    The way the US has treated Puerto Rico is really disgusting. We reserve the right overrule the local PR government’s decisions and dissolve their government at anytime. If that isn’t classic imperialism at its worst, I don’t know what is.

    The UN has for awhile called on us to release PR. I know under the Obama administration there was a process for determining independent status, but I’m unclear of how that’s gone. Have Puerto Ricans always rejected independence/statehood/whatever Micronesia enjoys?

  98. 98
    JR says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Said quotee did lose his head but he predeceased the tumbrel by over a hundred years.

  99. 99
    danielx says:

    @LosGatosCA:

    Give me your wallet or I’ll shoot you, and you will make me a murderer and it will all be your fault because you didn’t give me what I want!

  100. 100
    Ryan says:

    @danielx: Sounds like the ballad of Jeff Sessions.

  101. 101
    NotMax says:

    @Ryan

    Blazingly broad enough to enable one to download an entire movie in only half the time it took to film it.

    ;)

  102. 102
    Brachiator says:

    @MomSense:

    They didn’t even do hearings. There wasn’t a mechanism in the legislative process on the tax scam that made it possible for Dems to particpate.

    Yep. And of course, this thing was so hurried that a lot of rank and file Republicans didn’t participate either, but signed on because of party loyalty.

  103. 103
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @danielx:
    Words spoken by a psychopath. Aka the average entitled GOPer.

  104. 104
    Ryan says:

    @NotMax: Movie. Ha! You know red states only download pr0n.

  105. 105
    danielx says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    Paraphrase of something from Lincoln’s Cooper Union speech, actually…

  106. 106
    Jager says:

    @les:

    It takes over $750,000 of net worth to squeak into the very bottom of the top 20%.

  107. 107
    NotMax says:

    @Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe)

    Yes with the exception of the most recent vote, however that was tainted by being massively boycotted.

    Problem remains that any vote regarding change of status still requires approval of said change by Congress.

  108. 108
    MomSense says:

    @Brachiator:

    I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

  109. 109
    Aimai says:

    @Sab: stop it. You don’t know what you are talking about.

  110. 110
    Brachiator says:

    @Ruckus:

    Congress, being congress, goes along with him enough to get him to sign papers because they also know that he’s a bully, but he is marginally on their side.

    There are signs that the GOP leadership is afraid of Trump and are eager to appease him. Remember that cabinet meeting where everyone took turns praising Trump? The Congressional GOP did much the same recently. Even if they think that they are playing Trump, after a while the line between play acting and obedience has to become blurred.

  111. 111
    lowtechcyclist says:

    I’m not of a mind that we should wait until January 2019 to play hardball. Government’s only funded until January 19, and there’s no reason for the Dems to demand (that’s demand, not ask) the moon in return for the votes to keep the government open. DACA should be just one of several demands.

  112. 112
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @NotMax:
    That’s absolutely bullshit. I hope the UN sanctions us for the latest treatment of PR.

  113. 113
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Brachiator:
    Why are they afraid of him? They hold all sorts of power over him realistically. For example, they could threaten him with impeachment and endless congressional investigations privately and refuse to confirm his nominees. President Pence would be a better team player for them. The GOP leadership appears unwilling to exercise their authority as a co-equal branch.

    The more likely reason is their afraid of Trump’s voters and losing them will mean slaughter at polls; even worse than what will happen in a year from now.

  114. 114
    Brachiator says:

    @Jager:

    It takes over $750,000 of net worth to squeak into the very bottom of the top 20%

    But net worth and income are not the same, and comparisons can be tricky.

    Based on 2015 data, the top 25 percent of AGI is income greater than $79,665. The top 10 percent is AGI over $138,031. The top 1 percent would be $480,930.

  115. 115
    Miss Bianca says:

    @trnc:

    But will Chuck Todd deem her “over-prepared,” or will he coin a shiny new phrase for her?

    Not if she’s a PILF in his eyes. Then her “overpreparedness” will seem adorable. “She’s so *earnest!* And she looks so cute doing *earnest*!”

  116. 116
    Yutsano says:

    @ Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) :

    The more likely reasons is their afraid of Trump’s voters and losing them will mean slaughter at polls

    Kompramat. If you don’t think the Russians also have the RNC’s e-mails I have a bridge to sell you. The Russians also funded a TON of Republican races in 2016. They’re dirty. And they know it. They will play to Vlad’s tune.

  117. 117
    Teddys Person says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: I’ll put on my tinfoil hat to answer that question. He (or more accurately Putin) has dirt on them. Remember, the RNC was hacked too. I firmly believe that, while we’re seeing some Republicans saying the quiet parts out loud, it’s probably nothing compared to what they all say in private.

    ETA or what Yutsano said directly above me.

  118. 118
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ruckus:

    He’s not going to give in to anyone, no matter how much sucking up anyone does. He is a classic bully, who has gotten himself to a position of power, nothing will get him to give anyone anything.

    This. He is a classic toxic narcissist, and the only thing you can do to cope with a toxic narcissist is to set limits that you refuse to allow them to cross no matter how much those limits enrage them. The first time you give in, they will stomp all over you. Hard.

    The only way to win with a narcissist is to refuse to play their game, because they ignore all of their own rules as soon as it becomes convenient for them. Unfortunately, it’s almost impossible to refuse to play when the narcissist is President of the United States.

  119. 119
    debbie says:

    @Brachiator:

    This is like that Wisc. Rep/Senator (Sensenbrenner?) who was shocked to learn what was in the Patriot Act — which he had sponsored.

  120. 120
    SFAW says:

    @trnc:

    @cleek: If only someone, let’s say a Balloon Juice commenter, could come up with a handy explanation for republicans’ approach to policy. :-)

    Nicely done.

    Of course, that hypothetical commenter would probably end up getting it called a “Law” or some such.

  121. 121
    Miss Bianca says:

    @mai naem mobile: OK, “Capo de Tutti Frutti” did make me LOL. Well-played!

  122. 122
    Mnemosyne says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    They think they can control the crazy. Unfortunately for them, history shows that everyone who thinks they can control the crazy ends up being destroyed by it themselves. During the French Revolution, the Duc d’Orleans (Louis XVI’s cousin) thought he could ride the crazy to take over the throne, but all he got for himself was a date with the National Razor.

  123. 123
    Stan says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    The way the US has treated Puerto Rico is really disgusting.

    Puerto Rico IS the USA.

  124. 124
    SFAW says:

    @lowtechcyclist:

    and there’s no reason for the Dems to demand

    Did you mean “NOT to demand”?

  125. 125
    sherparick1 says:

    @patrick II: Apparently, it still has not sunk into Trump’s and private equity supporters that Puerto Rico is part of the United States and that the people can just pick up and move to the states. And vote there.

  126. 126
    Kay says:

    I don’t want Democrats to take part in the Trump Administration infrastructure bill because of the corruption.

    These people are dishonest. Lying as much as they do isn’t a “one off” – it isn’t limited to what they tell the NYTimes or the tax bill. The infrastructure bill will be as corrupt and self-serving as the tax bill is.

    You can’t get good from bad. It just doesn’t work. Chuck Schumer is smart but you can’t make deals with people who lie constantly. They aren’t gonna change. They lied from day one about everything from crowd sizes to the child tax deduction. It’s an ethos- a culture.

    The lying is a fundamental problem. It’s a cancer and this administration is riddled with it. All the cleverness in the world isn’t gonna fix it- bad faith. They operate dishonestly. All of them.

    Stay away. It’s contagious.

  127. 127
    Brachiator says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    Why are they afraid of him? They hold all sorts of power over him realistically.

    This is an excellent question. I don’t know the answer. There may be a psychological component. The GOP has been capitulating to Trump since he won the presidential primary. And we have seen Trump revel in humiliating GOP figures, from Jeb Bush to Romney to Christie. And the GOP keeps coming back for more.

    The more likely reasons is their afraid of Trump’s voters and losing them will mean slaughter at polls; even worse than what will happen in a year from now.

    The GOP fear the moneymen more than they fear voters. They ignored their voters when trying to kill Obamacare, and they have ignored them when it came to this terrible tax bill. They are ignoring their voters as they begin talking about deep cuts to Medicare and Social Security.

    Strangely enough, the blind loyalty of Trump voters gives the GOP more breathing room to work their own agenda.

  128. 128
    debbie says:

    @Kay:

    Stay away. It’s contagious.

    It’s also bullshit that the federal government will be leaning on the states to fund the projects, when it was the federal government who largely decided to ignore the disintegrating infrastructure.

  129. 129
    chopper says:

    the guns for whatever

    just goes to demonstrate what a made-up scandal that one was.

  130. 130
    danielx says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Calvinball!

  131. 131
    Teddys Person says:

    @Brachiator:

    Strangely enough, the blind loyalty of Trump voters gives the GOP more breathing room to work their own agenda.

    Serious question, what does President Trump give them that a President Pence wouldn’t? This has always been the question I can’t answer.

  132. 132
    Brachiator says:

    @Chip Daniels:

    We don’t need the WWC and their economic anxiety. We need every member of the Democratic coalition to GOTV.

    This is simply not true when it comes to electoral votes, which is based on winning states.

    You cannot be assured of winning with only the Democratic Party vote.

  133. 133

    @Brachiator: Barack Obama did it twice, we can and should replicate what he did.

  134. 134
    WaterGirl says:

    I am just now reading the first of all the BJ threads about this Trump interview. I am reminded of my first trip to an IKEA store. My niece was laughing because she had never ever seen me at a store where I didn’t buy something. I was so overwhelmed that I just kept saying “wow” as we wandered through.

    Fast forward to reading parts of the transcript Adam provided. I’m not surprised at how bad off he is, but somehow all I can do it mutter several very somber “wows” as I am reading. Wow. Thank god for the upcoming medical exam. The doctors may save us all.

  135. 135
    Betty Cracker says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Thanks. I wasn’t offended; I’m genuinely curious about what makes pedants tick.

    @Brachiator:

    Strangely enough, the blind loyalty of Trump voters gives the GOP more breathing room to work their own agenda.

    QFT.

  136. 136
    debbie says:

    @Teddys Person:

    He’s the mouthpiece for their pent-up anger. He’s their Id. He says what they are thinking, but were afraid of being abused or laughed at for voicing their own thoughts. He does the heavy lifting for their prejudices.

  137. 137

    I don’t read these sections the same way. I do think that’s an accurate depiction of his personality, but it’s not part of these quotes. He’s just puffing himself up and pretending he’s relevant to anything Congress does.

  138. 138
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Stan:
    Yes it is. I guess I should have said the GOP controlled federal government instead.

  139. 139
    jk says:

    Kudos to the tireless Daniel Dale, Washington Bureau Chief of the Toronto Star for factchecking Trump’s NY Times interview:

    Donald Trump made 25 false claims in his latest New York Times interview
    https://www.thestar.com/news/world/analysis/2017/12/29/donald-trump-made-25-false-claims-in-his-latest-new-york-times-interview.html

  140. 140
    Kristine says:

    @Teddys Person: I’ve wondered about that as well. All I can come up with is that they fear his base wouldn’t accept Trump’s ouster. The only reason I think they might accept is bad health, but I am guessing that some far right mouthpiece would start the rumor that Dear Leader was poisoned/drugged and forced from office.

    Pence is a standard issue repub with a minor in theocracy. Not sure T***pists would accept him.

  141. 141
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @debbie:
    Even at the cost of American power and prestige? It’s a rhetorical question, yes, but it is still flabbergasting (word of the day!) how far Republicans have fallen.

  142. 142

    @Teddys Person: Congressional Rs are cowards, they are afraid of their base. They will never repudiate T ever. He is their base made flesh.

  143. 143
    Patricia Kayden says:

    It appears that he’s willing to punish the country until the Democrats kiss the ring.

    And this is why Democrats shouldn’t budge. Trump “punishing” this country began once he was elected to an office for which he is severely unqualified.

  144. 144

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: Many Congressional Rs also live in the Fox News bubble, where up is down and 2+2=5. Many of them buy the snake oil they are selling.

  145. 145
    SenyorDave says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: All sixteen members of the Presidential Advisory Council on HIV/AIDS (PACHA) have been fired without warning or explanation, and overnight the White House website, HIV.gov, has been scrubbed of their names.

    This is the sort of thing I would assume the WH Chief of Staff gates involved with. It would be nice if the media would stop with the “Kelly is a good influence on Trump” narrative. Kelly’s views are every bit as disgusting as Trump’s. Trump is evil and so is Kelly.

  146. 146
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I wasn’t offended; I’m genuinely curious about what makes pedants tick.

    I agree it would be an interesting discussion, and I hope you’ll find a nice quiet not-much-news-happening day sometime soon to put up such a thread.

  147. 147
    Teddys Person says:

    @debbie: Okay, but we hear that too. It motivates us to call, protest, donate, and take other action that the Republicans have to deal with. It seems to me that their job of bringing back feudalism would be easier if they didn’t have to deal with that shit. Maybe it’s a simple as they see the opportunity to smash and grab amid the Trumpian chaos. Or maybe I just need to stop trying to make sense of the conservative mindset.

  148. 148
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: It might be well to determine exactly what Trump thinks bipartisan means be suse I suspect that, to him, it’s Democrats and Republicans voting for whatever he tells them to. (Auto correct tried to replace Trump with turnip. I think that’s a sound notion. )

  149. 149
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @jk: We have someone in the White House who is incapable of stating truths. Pretty much everything he says is a lie. It’s scary.

  150. 150

    But, of course, he’s lying. He would have done it anyway, and then said the Democrats were involved.

    Everything he says is a lie.

  151. 151

    @SenyorDave: All Kelly does and has done since he headed the DHS was put a respectable face on fascist policies.

  152. 152
    Brachiator says:

    @Teddys Person:

    Serious question, what does President Trump give them that a President Pence wouldn’t? This has always been the question I can’t answer.

    I think that a lot of people underestimate Trump’s racism and his naked fear and hatred of Muslims.

    Trump and his voter base think alike. They are stupid people who are ignorant of law, tradition, policy, and don’t accept diplomacy or the need for caution when it comes to either domestic or foreign policy. For example, the average Trump voter peed themselves in delight when Trump declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel and promised to move the embassy there. Fuck them A-rabs, and decades of trying to maintain some stability.

    Trump supporters see him as an outsider who is ripping out the guts of a stale and unresponsive government, even if it means putting incompetent hacks and bored, feckless, stupid plutocrats in charge.

    Pence, by contrast, comes across as more cautious, even if he is a fanatic. He would be an absolutist when it came to destroying women’s rights. But he would talk the lame GOP party line about deregulation and taxes. But Trump is bolder. He didn’t just cut corporate taxes, an old GOP dream. He got the Republicans to strengthen every provision in the tax code that would help plutocrats amass even more wealth in the years to come, all to the wild applause of people who will be hurt by the tax law. Because they enjoy seeing Trump do his thing. It’s better than reality TV.

    There is no joy, on the other hand, in Pence. Even his name sounds rueful. Pence for penance. Trump for joy.

  153. 153
    Chip Daniels says:

    @Brachiator:
    The parties aren’t static fixed entities. If they were, elections wouldn’t even be necessary, we could just give all the red and blue states their 2020 electors already.
    Yes, there are plenty of states with +R registration margins. But as in Alabama, demoralizing their base combined with energizing ours, is the best strategy

    While there may be trace elements of the Trumpian WWC voters who were sincerely economically anxious, for most of them, their primary goal is a world where POC are subservient; We have no way to compromise with that and will only demoralize our base if we try.

  154. 154
    Brachiator says:

    @jk:

    .
    Donald Trump made 25 false claims in his latest New York Times interview

    Damn. He may be slowing down.

  155. 155
    debbie says:

    @Teddys Person:

    Or maybe I just need to stop trying to make sense of the conservative mindset.

    We all do.

  156. 156
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @trollhattan:

    Needlepoint, silly!

    “Two pedants walk into a Bargello….”

  157. 157
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Trump “punishing” this country began once he was elected to an office for which he is severely unqualified.

    I know I’m riding this hobbyhorse into the ground, but that’s the narcissist’s mind at work again. He knows on some level that he’s in over his head, but nothing is ever his own fault, so he has to punish everyone and everything that makes him realize how unqualified he is for the job. There is never any lack in himself — the problem is always that other people are actively trying to harm him.

  158. 158
    Teddys Person says:

    @Brachiator:

    Trump supporters see him as an outsider who is ripping out the guts of a stale and unresponsive government, even if it means putting incompetent hacks and bored, feckless, stupid plutocrats in charge.

    This is the part I always forget – the conservative aversion to education, experience and competency. To me, Pence is just as scary and extreme as Trump (i.e., they’re interchangeable nightmares). To the howler monkeys, he’s (ETA: Pence) an establishment RINO.

  159. 159
    trollhattan says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    Nice two-fer: blast Trump and NYT in a single swoop. WaPo seem to be enjoying themselves these days (as much as one can in the midst of a dumpster fire).

  160. 160
    Redshift says:

    Trump will always reward whoever sucks up to him the most. That will never be the Democrats. Attempting to deal with Trump is useless; make a deal with congressional Republicans if you have enough leverage, and let them worry about getting him to sign it. Or deal with him if it looks like it’s possible to trick him into torpedoing the next awful thing they try to do.

  161. 161
    patrick II says:

    @sherparick1:

    They know, they just don’t care. They’ll do the same thing to the whole U.S. if given the chance. Their first shot was Kansas, and from their point of view not a bad start.

  162. 162
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Brachiator:

    Trump supporters see him as an outsider who is ripping out the guts of a stale and unresponsive government, even if it means putting incompetent hacks and bored, feckless, stupid plutocrats in charge.

    I don’t think this point can be emphasized enough. Trump’s supporters want to tear our whole society down on the assumption that they will “naturally” rise to the top again once all of Those People (including uppity wimmens) are put back in their rightful place. They’re happy to pay more in taxes and struggle to get by financially as long as they can feel secure in their place of social supremacy.

  163. 163
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Barack Obama did it twice, we can and should replicate what he did.

    Not quite true.

    Okay, I will assume that Republican voters are bad people who will never, ever, ever vote for Democrats.

    However, there are Democrats who will vote for Republicans, and these people are mainly white and Latino. Also, I note that plenty of Asians voted for Republicans before Obama (even though the Asian vote may not move the electoral vote needle in Red States).

    The idea that Democrats can ignore the WWC is delusional.

    Doesn’t mean you have to kiss their asses.

    ETA. And the Democrats have to pay attention to women. People keep focusing on the wrong damn thing when they talk about the 53 percent of white women who voted for Trump. The interesting thing here is that Hillary Clinton, despite being a woman, could not move the needle more in her favor. White women, nationally, vote Republican. But when you get down to states, especially outside the South, things get grittier.

    Younger, unmarried, educated white women are far more likely to vote for Democrats. This is one of the places where you have to focus efforts in swing states and elsewhere.

  164. 164
    Brachiator says:

    @Chip Daniels:

    But as in Alabama, demoralizing their base combined with energizing ours, is the best strategy

    In Alabama, Democrats did not do anything to demoralize the Republican base. The Republicans and Moore did it to themselves. This is one of the key weaknesses in your approach. You cannot control what Republicans do.

    While there may be trace elements of the Trumpian WWC voters who were sincerely economically anxious, for most of them, their primary goal is a world where POC are subservient

    These people may be racist, but abortion was a huge issue for Alabama voters. They also have a weird, old grudge about prayer in school. They yearn for a wholesale return to the 1950s.

    We have no way to compromise with that and will only demoralize our base if we try

    The Democratic Party base are not a bunch of frightened children. And even as you note, the base is not static. We need to build on the strength of the base, not pretend that we need to be cautious or defensive.

  165. 165
    rikyrah says:

    @patrick II:

    The wolves saw a chance to bring down a wounded animal economy, and they are going to kill it and eat it, including the people living there

    I’ve said it for awhile..
    They are trying to kill those American Citizens.

  166. 166
  167. 167
    Ruckus says:

    @Brachiator:
    They need him. It really is that simple. They can shout and gesticulate all they want but without his signature they really have very limited power. They aren’t going to impeach him, that would make a mockery of them and they know it. They tried to do this will Bill C and it got them nothing. Republicans had to outright steal the next election to have anything. The smart ones know that every thing they do is totally self serving and short sighted, they don’t fucking care. So unless the republican congress wants to have a revolution they use numbnuts as best as they can and get everything that isn’t tied down and a lot that is. Remember bullies/narcissists have power because they have chickenshit followers. And that defines the republican congressidiots pretty well. Chickenshit followers. Not one of them is any kind of leader, not one. They tied their horses to a moronic, narcissistic, demented asshole, now they just have to follow where he goes.

  168. 168
    Ruckus says:

    @Teddys Person:
    They are afraid that if they impeach drumpf and it doesn’t work, they will be in a far worse position. And they would be. Because if you have the stomach for it, drumpf is malleable. They look at themselves in the mirror and listen to the tiny voices in their heads, so they have the stomach for it. Dense is, well dense. No one likes him, he’s a tea party kind of guy, a true believer in whatever stupid shit is there but no one likes him, no one thinks he’s as malleable as drumpf.

  169. 169

    @Brachiator:

    Not quite true.

    What is not true? President Obama won twice, both the electoral college and the popular vote.

    The idea that Democrats can ignore the WWC is delusional.

    I am sure that quite a few WWC folks voted for both HRC and Obama. The media does not cover people (WWC or otherwise) who vote for Ds, that does not mean they don’t exist.

    ETA. And the Democrats have to pay attention to women. People keep focusing on the wrong damn thing when they talk about the 53 percent of white women who voted for Trump. The interesting thing here is that Hillary Clinton, despite being a woman, could not move the needle more in her favor. White women, nationally, vote Republican. But when you get down to states, especially outside the South, things get grittier.

    Younger, unmarried, educated white women are far more likely to vote for Democrats. This is one of the places where you have to focus efforts in swing states and elsewhere.

    United States is a big country and voting patterns vary dramatically by region and by state, citing national aggregates does not lead to great insights.

  170. 170
    Brachiator says:

    @Ruckus:

    Republicans had to outright steal the next election to have anything. The smart ones know that every thing they do is totally self serving and short sighted, they don’t fucking care.

    Winning is everything. How you get there doesn’t matter in the end. And the Republicans are not short sighted. Since the Clinton administration, if not earlier, they have been hammering home the idea that they are the sole legitimate governing power in America. They keep hammering home their mantra about deregulation and lower taxes.

    They blocked many of Obama’s judicial appointments, and look to put their own people in place. They may get two more Supreme Court vacancies. This is far from being short sighted and will affect Americans for decades.

    Remember bullies/narcissists have power because they have chickenshit followers.

    The bottom line is that Trump is in power and the GOP Congress gives him cover.

    If the Democrats can change the balance of power in the midterms, we could see some real change.

  171. 171

    @Brachiator: Rs are fucking shortsighted, they are destroying the future and the present of this country to line their own pockets for short term gains.

  172. 172
    Raoul says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Is it just me, or does the ‘do bipartisan’ sound like tRump just ordering from a sex menu?

  173. 173
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Rs are fucking shortsighted, they are destroying the future and the present of this country to line their own pockets for short term gains.

    The Republicans and their plutocrat masters hate the America that actually exists and want to return it to being something it never was.

    This goes beyond short term v long term.

    But the Republicans have been strategic in looking for the best opportunity to get things done and think they have found their champion in Trump.

  174. 174
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    Crapissimo di tutti crappi, more like.

  175. 175
    Ruckus says:

    @Brachiator:
    As SC said at 171 they are short sided. They just keep doing the same thing over and over, sometimes they get what they want. The problem is that they are at the perfect turning point to steal everything. And if they do it, what next? Pitchforks and spikes? That’s so 16th century.
    If they really had any long term vision they would have had extremely strict gun control in place, so that they wouldn’t be as easy targets when they got done stealing every dollar. Because at some point it will dawn on at least a few of the gun fetishers that they have been had and royally so. All it takes is a few turning and the tide starts.

  176. 176
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Brachiator:

    They keep hammering home their mantra about deregulation and lower taxes.

    Actually, that’s not their mantra. Their mantra is, “Government sucks.” Everything they do is in support of that. They don’t just want to lower taxes because they’re greedy — they want to wreck local and state governments and make it impossible for them to function. They don’t want deregulation because they think it will solve a problem — they want deregulation because government shouldn’t exist in the first place.

    Everything they do is designed to wreck the very idea of an active government that can help people. That’s Reagan’s true legacy, embodied in one of his most famous quotes (from memory):

    The most frightening words in the English language are, “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”

    That is their philosophy. Everything else is window dressing and/or a means to that end.

  177. 177
    Ruckus says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    That is their philosophy. Everything else is window dressing and/or a means to that end.

    Since time began, this has been conservative’s philosophy. Not smaller government, no government at all. They don’t give a shit about anything else except no government getting in their way of stealing everything and owning everyone else.

  178. 178
    SgrAstar says:

    @trollhattan: Agree about Pelosi. She is indomitable and a fearless fighter. I’ve run into her a few times on the street in SF and she is unfailingly warm and approachable. Her constituents like her, a lot, so it’s hard to imagine her being taken down on her home turf.

  179. 179
    Yutsano says:

    @SgrAstar: The dudebros are aligning with the Bernistas in order to take her out. They tend to overestimate their power by a rather large factor. Not to mention that she is ON POINT on the constituent services side of things.

  180. 180

    @Yutsano: Isn’t there a large overlap between the two groups.

  181. 181
    SgrAstar says:

    @Brachiator: I think that’s exactly the inverse of what’s actually happening. The republican Congress and their associates are in power, trump is their cover. Trump doesn’t give a shit about anything but himself. He’s too lazy/stupid/incompetent to actually have any ideas, so he lets his willing minions in the Heritage Foundation, Federalist Society, etc provide the personnel and the justification to execute *their* ideas.

  182. 182
    Immanentize says:

    @Brachiator:

    You cannot be assured of winning with only the WHITE Democratic Party vote.

    FTFY

  183. 183
    Brachiator says:

    @SgrAstar:

    I think that’s exactly the inverse of what’s actually happening. The republican Congress and their associates are in power, trump is their cover. Trump doesn’t give a shit about anything but himself.

    Trump’s sexism, racism and nativism is largely his own, but not only dovetails with GOP philosophy, it pushes it to extremes. Perhaps you can also see this push beyond what Republicans normally do in Trump’s insane desire to erase Obama from memory.

    The GOP might want a more robust, pro America foreign policy. Trump and Tillerson are eviscerating the State Department, making coherent foreign policy impossible.

    The GOP fantasy is a small federal government. Trump seems to be stupidly lurching toward the elimination of the US as a viable nation and its replacement with a federation of states dominated by a cabal of plutocrats.

  184. 184
    Jager says:

    @Brachiator:

    Assets-liabilities=net worth. If you “own” a $500,000 house and you owe 350k on it,your asset value is $150,000. Nothing to do with what you earn, everything to do with what you can cash out.

  185. 185
    burnspbesq says:

    @trollhattan:

    Gillibrand lost a ton of brand equity by railroading Franken.

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