The House will have to re-vote on a slightly modified version of the tax bill tomorrow because the bill they passed today violates Senate rules.
Everything they do adds to the (true) narrative that they rushed through a tax break for the Trumps of the world, as well as actual rich people. In my neck of the woods, Tom Reed (NY-23) just signed his political death warrant by voting for a tax increase for his constituents. He didn’t have to do it, and I hope to hell he has a decent opponent who will jam that vote down his throat next year. If Santa is really good to me this year, Chris Collins (NY-27) will also get thrown out on his ass, but that’s probably too much to wish for.
different-church-lady
Does this mean the Senate does not vote tonight?
A Ghost to Not
They’d steal the sandwich, then fuck it. Then they’d try to give it back as an example of their largesse.
different-church-lady
@A Ghost to Not:
jackmac
Peter Roskam, an Illinois Republican in a suburban Chicago district Hillary Clinton carried in 2016, was on the conference committee, voted for the bill and says he’s going to run for reelection on that vote.
He already has a 54 percent negative rating in the district.
different-church-lady
@jackmac: Are we going to find out there’s payoff money involved, and this time it has nothing to do with the Russians?
JPL
@different-church-lady: The Senate will vote and then send it back. At least that is my understanding.
Jerzy Russian
Maybe if they had committee hearings and the like, experts can weigh in and offer guidance and advice about matters of procedure and law. That way, the bills they offer up won’t violate rules and be subject to lawsuits, etc. I am beginning to think that the current crop of GOP lawmakers did not absorb the lessons offered in Schoolhouse Rock.
dr. bloor
It’s more likely that the Goddess will teleport NY 27 back to Pennsyltucky, where it belongs.
A Ghost to Not
@different-church-lady: Much better.
dr. bloor
@jackmac: Oh, hell, what issues could suburban Chicago voters possibly have with seeing their SALT and mortgage deductions hacked off at the knees?
Yutsano
One of the rules getting struck down is the political action in churches provision. Wonder if that might cause a couple more no votes in the House.
chopper
it appears the democrats were the only ones to actually read the fucker.
eclare
@JPL: Posted in an earlier thread, finally got through to Corker’s DC office today (his Memphis office has gone straight to a full voicemail for the past several months, constitints services!). Told the staffperson that Corker would be flushing his supposed integrity down the drain, among other things, and the staffperson said cheerfully that he would tell Corker, and have a great day! Staffperson was way too chipper.
rk
Serious question for knowledgeable people. Can any of this be reversed if democrats win in 2018 or 2020? Or are we permanently screwed?
Yutsano
@chopper: I smell a reverse ratfucking. What if…those were only the first problems to raise to the Parliamentarian’s attention? Could they keep stalling and stalling until it’s too late?
japa21
@rk: Would probably have to wait til 2020 when the Dems also take back the WH. But yes, it can all change.
japa21
@Yutsano: Somebody on Twitter mentioned the same thing. If the Senate votes on it first, then it won’t be able to be done. But if House votes first, then I think, if there are other things, yes it can be done.
mike in dc
@Yutsano: Paul and Mitch would keep Congress in session until New Year’s if necessary. And then stall on seating Doug Jones if they had to. We probably can’t stop this bill. But we can make them pay for it.
JPL
@eclare: It’s about the same at Isaakson’s office. I haven’t even called Sen Purdue.
This is Palin’s death panels.
chopper
@Yutsano:
possible. just goes to show why it helps to know how to write a bill. wouldn’t surprise me if mcconnell is having people look through the bill to ind any other issues the dems could possibly raise. or not, these guys are just schmucks.
germy
@A Ghost to Not:
“I specifically requested no mayonnaise.”
Another Scott
Meanwhile, …
TheHill – Abortion fight threatens Collins deal and risks shutdown:
The Teabaggers couldn’t manage to run a one-car parade without having the car flip over and burst into flames… I’m glad that the Democrats are refusing to – yet again – yield to these stupid, unreasonable demands.
Here’s hoping that the Trumpists manage to mess up their “Win for Glorious Leader Donnie” also too.
Cheers,
Scott.
chopper
truth be told if the parliamentarian stops this up another time or two McConnell will likely just shitcan her anyways.
NotMax
@eclare
Call again and, in light of what is publicly known about certain tax breaks inserted at the last moment, insistently ask the staffer to remind Corker of one of the official standing rules of the Senate, Article XII, paragraph 3:
@A Ghost to Not
Ah, the gentile version of Portnoy’s Complaint.
Walker
As a constituent of that idiot, I hope this is true, but I am not holding my breath.
Kay
I’m pleased Democrats are throwing wrenches into this. People want their advocates to get a little bloodied up. Don’t go down gracefully. The only thing worse than a losing battle is no battle at all.
geg6
I hate these people. Hate, hate, hate them. I can never forgive them for all they’ve done and this is just another nail in the coffin. They are not human. They are monsters.
germy
@geg6: I agree with you, but that’s what they say about us.
JoeyJoeJoe Junior Shabadoo
One of the Dems running against Reed is Martok from DS9 (JG Hertzler). He may literally be able to ram the bill down Reed’s throat.
debbie
@germy:
i just saw your post about TNC quitting Twitter. I checked West’s Twitter feed and he’s not getting a fraction of the push-back he deserves. Gah!
I hope Cornell enjoys being the toast of the White Supremacy movement.
debbie
@Kay:
In that same vein, I enjoyed Sen. Kennedy’s (R-LA) evisceration of Trump’s judicial nominee. Three so far have withdrawn their nominations. Happy news!
HeleninEire
Can’t anybody here play this game?
/Casey Stengel
This shit is embarrassing.
mai naem mobile
If this monstrosity passes, I want Jared indicted on Friday. Dolt45 will have a twitter meltdown like you’ve never seen before
JPL
@geg6: MeToo!
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
My late supervisor used to say about some of our staffers that they could fuck up a two-car funeral if you spotted them the hearse.
It seems there are others who aspire to that level of accomplishment.
I wonder just how hard Boehner is laughing as he orders his pre-dinner double.
debbie
@HeleninEire:
It’s getting to look like dejá vu all over again!
/Yogi Berra
Yarrow
I saw the chyron on CNN “House Must Vote Again” and wondered what that was. What a bunch of idiots. Thanks for the post.
TenguPhule
@chopper:
What do you mean appears?
Kay
@debbie:
I read the last one’s resignation letter. He feels very sorry for himself. These people. I swear.
You can’t be a judge, buddy! I can’t be a federal district judge either, but I don’t think that’s unfair. It isn’t just godammned random assignments!
TenguPhule
@chopper:
Fuck him.
Let him try.
randy khan
The Republicans are impressive in their incompetence as legislators. And a lot of the trouble they’re having here is the result of setting the $1.5 trillion number in the reconciliation instructions when they didn’t have a bill yet. If they’d waited to do the reconciliation instructions until after they had written a bill, it would have gone much more smoothly.
germy
@debbie:
He’s quit before. Possibly he’ll return. And if not, he still has work to do, books to write.
Here’s the thing, though. I agree with some of what West writes. This, for example. He was asked to define the term “neoliberal”
But the rest of it, his support for Jill for president, his bizarre attacks on Obama and Coates… I just can’t follow him there.
TenguPhule
@rk:
No in 2018 unless we have 2/3rd majorities in both house and Senate.
Yes in 2020 if we win all the races.
And if we don’t, bad things happen.
Patricia Kayden
@chopper: Democrats standing together and voting against this atrocity of a bill is a plus for our side. The ads write themselves — especially if the negative consequences of this tax scam start showing up early next year.
TenguPhule
@mike in dc: Let’s see if they like not having a budget and a government shutdown shitfest.
Roger Moore
@rk:
Any of it can be reversed by Congress in the future, provided they have either a President who will sign it or enough votes to override a veto. That means it probably can’t get overturned until 2021 at the earliest. And, of course, repealing it won’t undo any of the damage it’s done in the meanwhile.
debbie
@Kay:
Far Side to the rescue!
(I have this tacked on my cubicle wall. It’s appropriate.)
Patricia Kayden
@TenguPhule: Yep. We need Congress and the Presidency to reverse everything that Trump has done. Hopefully, Mueller is working hard to ensure that he doesn’t even serve one full term.
debbie
@germy:
Cornell West isn’t big enough or strong enough to wield a brush broad enough to make the statement you referenced. He’s far too hyperbolic, as he usually is. However, the crap he tweeted to TNC was uncalled for and just plain wrong. He’s proven himself to be nothing more than dried up, old hack.
rikyrah
@jackmac:
Beat that muthaphucka 😠😠
rikyrah
@geg6:
Truth 😠😠😠
Bill Arnold
Copy/pasted from previous post just for handy table:
Looking at the vote table (NYTimes) (try private window if out of nytimes quota, perhaps), I see 4 NY Republican congresspeople voted for this tax bill, but it’s all “upstate”[1] (typically much less wealthy) districts. NY-24 voted for Clinton in 2016 according to wikipedia (haven’t confirmed).
NY-22 Claudia Tenney Y
NY-23 Tom Reed Y
NY-24 John Katko Y
NY-27 Chris Collins Y
CA-1 Doug LaMalfa Y
CA-4 Tom McClintock Y
CA-8 Paul Cook Y
CA-10 Jeff Denham Y
CA-21 David Valadao Y
CA-22 Devin Nunes Y
CA-23 Kevin McCarthy Y
CA-25 Steve Knight Y
CA-39 Ed Royce Y
CA-42 Ken Calvert Y
CA-45 Mimi Walters Y
CA-50 Duncan Hunter Y
[1] NYC suburb residents think of themselves as suburb residents, not upstate residents, though they’re “upstate” to NYC residents.
Brachiator
@Patricia Kayden:
There is a bit of a delayed reaction built into this tax mess. Some people won’t really know what hit them until they file their 2018 tax returns in 2019 and see that the have a balance due or a teeny tiny refund.
Yarrow
Apparently Wolf Blitzer just interviewed Bob Corker and asked him real questions and Corker was Not Happy about it. “I know you’re having a great time with this interview and I’m happy for you in doing so. I’ve said what I’ve said and I’m doing what I’m doing. And for me to sort of rehash all that gives you an opportunity over the next week just to replay and replay and replay. I’m a very direct guy. I say what’s on my mind and what I think. I don’t walk away when I do those things. I’m ready to move on and deal with those issues. …You know all of these things are totally malicious, they’re not true and you know that. And people in the press that are responsible know that and I’m disappointed that you chose this opportunity to do what you did… I know you had a good time with this interview.”
Wolf must have inadvertently committed journalism. Jeffrey Toobin called Corker’s answers pathetic. LOL.
debbie
@Brachiator:
Hopefully, they’ll know to duck when they get their 2025 tax bill and it’s even higher than it was 7 years earlier.
A Ghost to Not
@NotMax:
I read that decades ago. It made quite the impression on my young mind, I guess.
Mnemosyne
@chopper:
Make him do it. Call his bluff.
A Ghost to Not
@Yarrow:
It’s his only hope.
japa21
I wonder how many GOP Representatives are getting major negative pushback tonight and if the changes that have to be made will give them cover to change to a no vote. Particularly the one relating to churches.
A Ghost to Not
@geg6: alt-human.
Brachiator
@germy:
@debbie:
West is little more than an old crank jealous of Coates success and cowardly using false “criticism” to disguise his personal agenda. It’s just sad.
The best takedown of West, whose most infamous claim to fame is how he ruined the Matrix trilogy, is humorously found on the latest “black guy who tips” podcast, Blackademic Beef 2 – Neoliberal Boogaloo.
Mnemosyne
@germy:
And his evidence that TNC advocates any of that is … ?
Mary G
Well, the protests here in CA 49 caused Darrell Issa to vote no. He and Rohrbacker probably got the hall passes from Paul Ryan. Mimi Walters and Duncan Hunter voted yes, so they have become targets. Longshots but you never know.
Issa and Rohrbacker are still toast.
Yarrow
@Brachiator:
True. But for planning purposes and for anyone who files quarterly the effects will be seen pretty quickly. I’m sure tax people will be telling their clients right away that the SALT and mortgage deductions are affected. People need to plan.
Not to mention that the health insurance plan prices are going to go up, if plans are available at all. It’ll be pretty easy to point at this tax bill when someone can’t get/can’t afford health insurance.
All those things will be in play and happening before the 2018 election.
BlueDWarrior
@japa21: Not likely enough to tank the bill, but it will be another bullet point for Democrats playing the “Republican are ineffective legislators” card.
Even when they have free reign to do whatever they wanted, they still can’t do it in a way that makes sense to anyone observing from the outside, because what they are doing is really unpopular and if it was easy for an outsider to rationalize, it’s that much easier to organize against.
The Republicans are in full “Damn the Torpedoes” mode and I don’t believe anything is going to make them stop; outside of getting them out of office that is. So Democrats should run on “Every Republican is a toady for [wealthy industrialist/financier everyone hates], even that nice sounding one you think you know locally”
debbie
@Brachiator:
Love this comment from your link:
Mnemosyne
@Bill Arnold:
CA-25 is my sister district for Swing Left. Bye-bye, motherfucker!
BlueDWarrior
@Mnemosyne: He though poorly of Brother West, therefore he must be a neoliberal shill out to get him.
Once upon a time I was excited to get my Cultural Geography book signed by him, but that was 12 years ago. Now I just sit and shake my head at an old man who fears his time has passed. Also Brother Coates has a much better way with language and ease when talking to younger people, which is why Coates is doing better than West was in his heyday.
karensky
@dr. bloor: pls, no, we have enough of them already!
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Yutsano: Could be an attempt to have it both ways. All the GOP can’t be so stupid as to not see jacking the taxes on the middle class and rich would screw their party.
Eric S.
@jackmac: My ex-gf is a teacher and became nationally board certified. It’s a Big Biden Deal. Her school is in Roskam’s district and he was there to glad hand. It was her night and i wouldn’t ruin it for her but it was tough not to call him out on his policies.
Mnemosyne
@BlueDWarrior:
West is the kind of academic who makes me wonder if tenure really is an unalloyed good.
germy
@Mnemosyne:
Zero evidence.
I suspect it is no coincidence this dustup coincides with the anniversary of Race Matters.
He’s been quiet on the downward spiral of Tavis “Where else am I supposed to meet people??” Smiley. I’m wondering if West will eventually say something on the subject that will make some fans say “gasp!”
MomSense
@geg6:
Right there with you. I loathe them and I’ll never forgive them.
Ohio Mom
@eclare: My Congressman Brad Wenstrup also has an overly chirpy, perky phone-answer in one of his local offices. I think of her as a Good German, the type who says, “No, I never noticed the smoke coming out of that stack,” even as she’s coughing.
Barbara
@Bill Arnold: Even if the Republican house members voted no, the point is, they contribute to the majority that is obsessed with hurting states like New York, New Jersey, Illinois and California. The no votes from those states ought to be the first ones to go down — they know the bill hurts their state and they are powerless to persuade their own party to protect the interests of their constituents.
Brachiator
@Yarrow:
Yep. And there are good tax estimators that people could use right now and get a good feel how their taxes would look like using info from their 2016 tax return.
Given how comprehensive a lot of the new changes are, I’m surprised at the number of people who are simply taking the Republicans at their word that there is going to be tax cut heaven for everyone.
ruemara
@germy: None of which is what TNC is. Which is why West is a foul douchenugget.
germy
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Is it possible Wolf Blitzer accidentally stumbled into making some good television?
germy
@ruemara: The Spencer thing was the last straw for TNC.
debbie
@germy:
I heard him interviewed. He’s confident when people see less taken out of their paycheck and get a bigger refund, they’ll fall in love with the bill, just like he has.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@debbie: I’m sure the extra $20 per pay period and hundred dollars in their refund will make folk so giddy no one will notice cuts to Social Security and an increase in Medicare eligibility
Yarrow
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I transcribed a bit of that interview above. Jeffrey Toobin called Corker’s answers “pathetic.”
James E. Powell
@jackmac:
It really comes down to his opponent then. Who do we got running?
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL:
I have tried reaching both Perdue’s and Isakson’s offices, in both GA and D.C. Get nothing but voice mail and messages that the mailbox is full.
Probably just as well. At this point, I’m not sure I could control my vocabulary.
encephalopath
If they change the bill, doesn’t it have to get an new number and get re-submitted? And doesn’t that provide more opportunity for procedural challenges?
This isn’t a markup version of the bill anymore. They were voting on a bill that was supposed to become law.
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Right. I will probably get more money in 2018. I just hope I die before they take it all back and SS too.
Bill Arnold
@chopper:
Out of curiosity, when people call the Representative/Senator, do they ask whether the representative/senator has read the bill or conference report?
gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CRPT-115hrpt466/pdf/CRPT-115hrpt466.pdf
and
docs.house.gov/floor/Default.aspx?date=2017-12-18
Something like (a) read the conference report (b) find something particularly egregious (c) call Yes-person X, (d) “I’m concerned about some details in the section starting on page 214, [express concern]. Has representative/senator X read this provision? He/She now has some additional time.”
Just curious whether they pay attention to this sort of thing or it just irritates them. Just reading this stinker irritates me.
germy
@Yarrow: Is there video anywhere online yet?
James E. Powell
@Mnemosyne:
Who’s running against Knight?
James E. Powell
@Mnemosyne:
There are very few goods that are unalloyed.
SiubhanDuinne
@HeleninEire:
@debbie:
The opera ain’t over till the fat lady sings.
/Dan Cook
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
Hardly anything is an unalloyed good. That said, for every person like West who stops doing good work once they get tenure and their head swells up, there are probably ten who start doing better because they’re freer to follow their own ideas when the threat of job loss isn’t hanging over their heads.
Kathleen
@geg6: I am with you. I had homicidal fantasies this morning as I was stomping on the Stair Master at the Y. Like wearing spiked shoes and pretending the steps were the side of a cliff and Paul Ryan’s fingers were….I’ll stop here.
Kathleen
@debbie: He’s an attention whore. Just like his idol.
Yarrow
@germy: I found this article with CNN video. thehill.com/homenews/senate/365698-corker-interview-with-cnns-blitzer-turns-awkward-after-questions-…
Not sure if that has everything but should have a lot of it.
JR
@debbie: Larry summers was apparently right after al
Kathleen
@debbie: Ryan’s having an R-gasm just thinking about all those sick kids.
debbie
@Kathleen:
Himself?
Yarrow
Corker is a pathetic worm.
Shana
@SiubhanDuinne: When congresscritters’ phones are unavailable, what’s the best way to get your message to them? Facebook? Twitter? I know people say fax, but other than that what’s preferred?
debbie
@JR:
Not a fan of his, but this afternoon, I heard him already talking about repeal and replace of this tax bill, as in this tweet:
Mnemosyne
@James E. Powell:
@Roger Moore:
Healthcare for kids is an unalloyed good. Other than that …
debbie
@Shana:
I use Zero Fax. (It’s free.) I know that if I were to call, I might get upset and be reduced to angry babbling, so I stick to written communications.
ArchTeryx
@Roger Moore: There is one thing most people aren’t realizing – they can repeal or moderate that by passing their *own* budget, under reconciliation rules, and dare Trump to veto it or shut down the government. Newtie tried that trick to force cuts and partial privatization of Medicare and ended up drummed out of Congress for it. Let’s see what an extremely unpopular lame duck president is willing to do.
Even Dubya wasn’t willing to ride that tiger. He simply signed the budgets a Democratic Congress put in front of him.
It would, however, require us to own both chambers (with at least 51 votes in the Senate), and get every red-state Senator to climb on board with tax increases for the rich. That’s a pretty heavy lift, but not impossible, especially if Trump and the current Republican leadership are so radioactive there’s a huge clamor to repeal it.
ruemara
@Shana: Fax or postcards/letter. really. Those are the only things they notice as much as phone calls. Emails are digital waste.
Fair Economist
@Mary G:
Walters represents an upscale district where a lot of constituents have expensive homes and are going to get hit by the SALT and mortgage deduction changes. She’s not a longshot target anymore. Hunter represents a more exurban district without so much pricey property and with a strong R lean, so he is still a longshot to take out.
Ed Royce is also extremely vulnerable. His district had an even lean in 2016 and now he’s voted for the abomination.
hellslittlestangel
But would they indict a baked potato?
Jeffro
Here’s where we’re at in the right wing’s defend-Trumpov-at-all-costs dead-ender game plan: did y’all know the FBI might have been willing to ‘off’ PEOTUS? (no word on why they didn’t/haven’t, because logic…)
And this was on Fox (of course!) not even Breitfart…
Buckle up!
TriassicSands
I don’t know anything about Reed or his district, but Americans are not exactly known for long-term thinking. Those who see a tax cut next year are not likely to be angry about tax cuts that may or may not happen in the future.
If most Americans were capable of ration thinking, we’d have veto-proof majorities in both houses and a Democrat in the White House. The last time I checked that isn’t how things have worked out.
ArchTeryx
@hellslittlestangel: No, but that ham sandwich over there is looking mighty suspicious.
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
@ruemara: West is well past his sell-by date. His scarcely disguised hatred of PBO turned out to be his undoing, and many others will share that fate.
Ryan
I hear ham sandwiches get indicted. Not sure about fucked up ones.
jackmac
@James E. Powell: Seven Democrats running for the nomination, including five women and two men:
• Becky Anderson, a Naperville City Council member and co-owner of Anderson’s Book Stores;
• Sean Casten, a scientist and clean energy entrepreneur;
• Carole Cheney, former district chief of staff for Rep. Bill Foster (D-11);
• Amanda Howland, a College of Lake County trustee who ran against Roskam in 2016;
• Ryan Huffman, a data analyst for a healthcare startup firm;
• Kelly Mazeski, a former North Barrington village trustee;
• Jennifer Zordani, an attorney.
Roskam has an outsized financial edge with $1.3 million in campaign cash on hand as of Sept. 30, according to Federal Election Commission reports.
The seven Democratic candidates reported a combined total of less than $1 million, led by Mazeski’s $342,755 as of late September. Mazeski has also earned endorsements from two current Illinois Democratic congressional representatives — Cheri Bustos (17th) and Jan Schakowsky
TenguPhule
@Yarrow:
The problem of course being they’ll still be around for the 2020 campaign too.
And Republicans will either stonewall on fixes or offer poison pill “bipartisan” deals which will be worse then ever.
We have to be able to not only pin this on them, but keep them pinned with fucking 10 meter slabs of sharpened steel rammed through their guts to the pavement.
Central Planning
@JoeyJoeJoe Junior Shabadoo:
That’s cool. I would make a short drive down to attend one of his rallies (and wow, that really does not look like the plural of rally)
Kathleen
@debbie: Ah, you know me too well!
efgoldman
@Brachiator:
And worse, he has the political acumen of his buddy, Stein.
These naifs never learned lesson number one: first, count the votes.
SteveNKY
@rk: permanently screwed bc we would achieve suoer-majorities, get scared at the non-stop “Dems are over-reaching!” And my 11 yo son’s future is eff’d.
Lyrebird
@germy: Thank you for demonstrating some areas of agreement, since I tend to just read “Cornel West” and think “media-loving contrarian” and leave it at that.
I recommend this article on the Black Left (?) for anyone interested in more thought-out critiques of TNC’s latest book that what CW offered. The section I read from West’s response suggested he’d written the review without reading the book, so I skipped the rest.
Catherine D.
@JoeyJoeJoe Junior Shabadoo:
Really? I live in the district, Now I want Tom Reed to linger in the lowest circles of hell (and I’ve met the bastard) but I’ve never heard of this opponent.
JoeyJoeJoe
electjghertzler.com/
Apparently he’s running as an Independent now.
Here’s a link to the full list of candidates, scroll down to find NY-23:
politics1.com/ny.htm