Open Thread: Ashitcan Farewell


Of course CNN broke out the banjo music. But, to be fair, this batch of Trump voters sounds less defiant than resigned — as though they’ve moved on to Kubler-Ross Stage #3 or #4.

347 replies
  1. 1
    Trentrunner says:

    In the true spirit of the season:

    I am looking forward to the stories of how these racist idiots’ votes have increased their very real suffering.

  2. 2
    Amir Khalid says:

    Was heißt Ashitcan?

  3. 3

    Reposted from below

    CBS says McCain is returning to Arizona and will miss the tax bill vote.

  4. 4
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Well, I live in Southern Maryland and saw a car leaving Walmart emblazoned with “Trump is my President” stickers so CNN can come to my neck of the woods and find solid Trumpanzees closer to suburban D.C. They don’t have to go out into the sticks.

  5. 5
    lamh36 says:

    The Obamas are DEF invited to the wedding!!

    10h10 hours ago
    ‘Do I need a British accent?’ @BarackObama is interviewed by Prince Harry for his guest edit of @BBCr4today. In this warm-up, the prince jokingly warns the ex-president he’ll get “the face” if he pauses too long between answers #r4today

  6. 6
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    The problems with out media go far beyond the state TV nature of Faux. The corporations that control what is presented via the public airwaves (via satellite links) are utterly corrupt as well.

  7. 7
    Van Buren says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Sounds like Charles County.

  8. 8
    Derelict says:

    Yep, DEFINITELY can’t go talk to any Black voters. I guess the totality of America now is White people who live in the sticks. All you folks living in the cities can go suck it while these salt-of-the-earth, bootstrap-pulling-upper, self-made, individually reliant, non-mooching citizens collect their farm subsidies, reduced-rate electricity, and free use of federal lands.

  9. 9
    Roger Moore says:

    Eventually, there’ll be one Trump supporter left

    And his name will be Donald J. Trump, Sr.

  10. 10
    Brachiator says:


    .The Obamas are DEF invited to the wedding!!

    This is pretty cool. I hope it gives Trump indigestion.

    Don’t know whether Ivanka was trying to wrangle an invite with her congratulatory Twitter message, but I doubt that she will make the list.

  11. 11
    lamh36 says:

    Damnit… Lifetime Christmas movies are just as addictive had Hallmark movies!!!

  12. 12

    @Derelict: Heh I live in a town with population <1000, which s 90% white and there are several working farms near by but you will never see the WWC here profiled because they are not R voters. My town went for HRC by more than 70%. If you don't vote R you are invisible, even if you are the sainted WWC voter.

  13. 13
  14. 14
  15. 15
    Corner Stone says:

    With Trump’s approval rating hovering right about 30%, it is a little surprising they can still throw a dart at a map and locate clumps of diehard “no regarts” Trump voters.

  16. 16
    AnotherBruce says:

    ‘CNN producers: What story can we do in response to surging black turnout boosting Doug Jones’ to an upset win in the AL senate race?”

    Maybe a story interviewing people in the black communities that turned out for Doug Jones? Ha, who am I kidding? They would rather not do that, not necessarily because they’re racist, thought that’s some part of it, but because they are fucking lazy.

  17. 17
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @lamh36: Trump is going to be pissed with a capital “P” when he realizes that there’s no invite in the mail for him and his Mrs. LOL.

  18. 18
    Corner Stone says:

    Is there a dumber place to use for a hideout than the ice planet Hoth?

  19. 19
    Corner Stone says:

    @Patricia Kayden: “Frightfully sorry about the mishap, old chap. I’ll have one sent right away. Now, do you spell that C-H-U-M-P? And the address again?”

  20. 20
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Amir Khalid: I was being rude, of course. Ashokan Farewell was a fiddle tune, written in the 1980s about a reservoir in NY state (the upper end of the Appalachians), which Ken Burns used for his Civil War mini-series:

    It’s been reused endlessly since then for elegiac fine-backwoods-folk “reporting” like this. So much so, that when you hear it, be suspicious of what’s about to be offered.

    (I don’t think the CNN background is actually Ashokan Farewell, but that’s the “gentle nostalgia” it was meant to invoke, IMO.)

  21. 21
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @AnotherBruce: What I don’t understand is whether CNN and other MSM outlets are getting feedback from viewers/readers indicating that they are sick and tired of these “Trump is still my main man” stories. They never ran such stories about President Obama’s supporters during his 8 years in office. It’s puzzling why they think that their audience is so entranced with Trump supporters given how unpopular he is.

  22. 22
    Corner Stone says:


    Maybe a story interviewing people in the black communities that turned out for Doug Jones? Ha, who am I kidding?

    Seeing as something like 96% of AA voters went for Doug Jones, I would actually pay money if they could find a pocket of black voters that voted Trump and are sticking with him.

  23. 23
    Quinerly says:

    @lamh36: My mom loved them. Lost her Oct 2015. She would call me on Sundays and tell me what she was watching. She would always preface the call with, “I feel very silly, but I’m watching….” Would give anything for that call today. Enjoy!

  24. 24
  25. 25
    Steve in the ATL says:

    Greetings from Jack London Square. People watching in SanFran never gets old!

  26. 26
    sukabi says:

    @Corner Stone: which is why “Diamond and Silk” (or Cubic Zirconia and Rayon as Joy Ann Reid calls them) are getting their 15 minutes of fame…

  27. 27
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Corner Stone: LOL!! And then scores of angry 3 AM toilet tweets about how pathetic Prince Harry is and how he would have been a better Prince.

    Trump needs to realize that while there are many in the U.S. who will tolerate his nonsense, foreign dignitaries/personalities have no reason to do the same.

  28. 28
    AnotherBruce says:

    @Corner Stone: As I mentioned, they are lazy, and this would take too much work. I’ll admit, I would be fascinated with a report like this but, nagahappen. (Edited for comma crimes.)

  29. 29
    Trentrunner says:

    @Steve in the ATL: (No one tell him Jack London Square is in Oakland, not San Francisco.)

  30. 30
    Another Scott says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Are you ever in the ATL???!!


    I flew on a couple of trips in the past month. DCA to CLT to GNV and DCA to CVG. Both trips had issues. I don’t envy you folks that have to fly frequently for a living. :-/


  31. 31
    Chip Daniels says:


    I am looking forward to the stories of how these racist idiots’ votes have increased their very real suffering.

    If I thought that would change things, I would share that POV.
    But I’ve seen this movie and know how it turns out.
    Breitbart/ Fox News sez:
    1. There is a black woman in Detroit who cheats on SNAP, and thats why we need to cut Social Security;
    2. There is a gay activist in San Francisco who wants to preserve mountaintops, which is why the coal companies are shutting down.
    3. #metoo is forcing companies to run unprofitable sensitivity training, which is why they are no longer hiring.

    The sooner we can castigate the media for fixating on the totally-not-racists-but economically-anxious white working class voter, the sooner we can focus on the concerns overwhelming majority of Americans.

    I consider myself well informed, but I was surprised to find out that 25% of Alabamans are black, and over 5% are Hispanic or Asian.
    So 1 of every three Alabamans are not even white, but who the hell ever hears about them or their concerns? There are more people working at fast food joints that coal mines, but say the word “working class” and everyone pictures a coal miner.

  32. 32
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @sukabi: or Cubic Zirconia and Rayon as Joy Ann Reid calls them)

    Ha! I hadn’t heard that

  33. 33
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Van Buren: Yes. That’s where I live. It’s pretty blue though so I always scoff when I see evidence that Trump supporters are alive and kicking out here. One of my neighbors had a McCain/Palin sign way back in 2008 but I notice he hasn’t put up anything after that election. I assume he realizes that supporting someone as daft as Palin didn’t make him look too bright.

  34. 34
    lamh36 says:

    ahahahahaha… Mark Hamill …where may I send ur winnings from the internets today!

    Follow Follow @HamillHimself
    More @HamillHimself Retweeted Ted Cruz
    Thanks for smarm-spaining it to me @tedcruz I know politics can be confusing, but you’d have more credibility if you spelled my name correctly. I mean IT’S RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU! Maybe you’re just distracted from watching porn at the office again❤️-mh

    Follow Follow @tedcruz
    More Ted Cruz Retweeted @HamillHimself
    .@HammillHimself Luke, I know Hollywood can be confusing, but it was Vader who supported govt power over everything said & done on the Internet. That’s why giant corps (Google, Facebook, Netflix) supported the FCC power grab of net neutrality. Reject the dark side: Free the net!

  35. 35
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    there’s a young woman reporter, I wanna say Shannon Pettypiece?, who appears a lot on MSNBC and always gives the most trump-friendly slant* to whatever news she’s reacting to. A week or so ago she was spent a whole segment hammering the “trump’s base is sticking with him” line. No mention of the fact, from her or whichever anchorbot it was, that said “base” is about ten points under his election day vote, which was 46% of (IIRC) about ~55% of the country.

    *Alex Witt was doing this today after the Joy Reid show, incredibly leading questions “Don’t Republicans have a point if those emails were obtained improperly?” Yes, and if my grandmother had had wheels, I might be a bicycle. I don’t watch her enough to know if that’s typical of her.

  36. 36
    Lapassionara says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Hope you are not headed to Atlanta today. Power outage at Hartsfield-Jackson.

  37. 37
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Such beautiful country. Such stupid people. And so unbelievably stupid of CNN to showcase them once again.

    OTOH, Anne Laurie, it might all be worthwhile simply because this thread is adorned with one of the best titles ever! Well done.

  38. 38
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    I’m not watching or reading or listening to local news. What happened at HJ? (Idle curiosity only — I’m not traveling and don’t know anyone who is,)

  39. 39
    Betty Cracker says:

    This may be the best tweet ever:

  40. 40
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    Gotta admit some impressive journalistic research skills here. It could not have been easy to ferret out backwoods Trump voters who had not been profiled several times already.

    What did you expect? Black people aren’t real Americans, after all.

    “They need to kinda let him do his job. Just get off his back.”

    “Yes. Let him do his job; like summarily executing all of Demonrats in Congress and gassing all the lazy nig*ers.”

    Thanks CNN.

  41. 41
    wmd says:

    Umm, the narrative that surging black vote made the difference in Alabama isn’t correct.

    TL;dr black turnout and votes looks very similar to 2008 and 2012. White turnout is also comparable, but the number of votes for the democrat went from 15% to 30%.

  42. 42
    raven says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Did you take the ferry over there from the City?

  43. 43
    Ruckus says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    drumpf is not unpopular with the CNN (or other MSM) upper management. What you see and hear is ordered by them, paid for by them and is what keeps those infotainment people employed. Much deviation from the company line and they are history. But that won’t change the story that you see and hear. They would just hire new talking heads and move on. They have a story to tell and a tax bill to sell. What the majority of people want is obviously not of importance to the upper management of CNN or the MSM.

  44. 44
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Documentarian Ken Burns gained real prominence through his Civil War series on PBS back in the 1980s. The main musical theme was a plaintive tune (then obscure but now well-known) called “Ashokan Farewell.” Anne Laurie made a pun with “shitcan” and created one of the best BJ thread titles in memory.

  45. 45
    Steeplejack says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I would seek to blend into the tanned, scantily clad crowds on the resort planet Hedonis Prime.

  46. 46
    cthulhu says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    It’s puzzling why they think that their audience is so entranced with Trump supporters given how unpopular he is.

    They are not wrong. We talk about them here and every other liberal and left-leaning site all the time. And though outlets like CNN, MSNBC, never explicitly make this clear, a lot of the attraction to these stories is “Can you believe these god-damned rubes?!” Yes, the black voters in AL are to be commended and especially for voting when so many roadblocks are put it their way but they were ultimately behaving sensibly. That doesn’t get you clicks or views. I am sure most people in the media think Trump’s an utter idiot but he certainly has surged their biz. And that’s a problem inherent to commercial journalism that’s not ever going to go away.

  47. 47
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    If the emails really were obtained improperly, shouldn’t Trump’s lawyers be going to court to get an order from a judge to suppress them?

    I crack myself up sometimes.

  48. 48
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Don’t know if you caught it, but NPR Weekend Edition had a feature on Hallmark Channel Christmas movies this morning: link to story and audio.

  49. 49
    Mnemosyne says:


    Gosh, Naked Capitalism, one of the most racist websites ostensibly on the “left,” is denigrating the efforts of Black voters in Alabama and claiming it was all about the minority of white voters who managed to pull their heads out of their asses?

    This is my not-shocked face.

  50. 50
    HAL says:


    Is this a proper reading of results? An off year special election in Alabama elicited black voter turnout comparable to 2008 and 2012 general election years featuring the first AA party nominee, but we really just need to congratulate white people?

  51. 51
    Roger Moore says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    I think there’s a deeper reason beyond just greater interest in what white people think driving the stories about working class Trump supporters who still support him. With minorities and Obama, there are obvious reasons why they support him and why that support was unlikely to waver. He was a minority himself, so there was the obvious desire to vote for another minority, and despite the criticism of a few naysayers it was obvious he was doing a pretty good job of representing their interests. Voters sticking by a politician who’s one of them and is helping them out is a “dog bites man” story.

    With Trump, though, the opposite is true. Trump may be white, but he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and is allegedly a billionaire, so he doesn’t have that much in common with working class whites. And his policies have clearly and obviously favored the wealthy at the expense of the working class, so his voters don’t have that reason to support him, either. So what is getting working class white voters to stand by Trump? It’s an interesting question; it’s just too bad the reports on it have done such a terrible job of getting to the right answer.

  52. 52
    Kathleen says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Amen. They willingly helped the coup.

  53. 53
    Corner Stone says:

    @Steeplejack: Is there…umm, maybe a newsletter about the goings on of Hedonis Prime? Asking for a friend.

  54. 54
    Lapassionara says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: power outage since 11:30 am eastern. No planes leaving gates. Planes that landed are just waiting, with passengers on board. Other flights diverted, others not leaving for Atlanta.

    Welcome to our increasingly challenged infrastructure.

  55. 55

    @SiubhanDuinne: Mr DAW likes those movies. I think it’s sweet that h does.

  56. 56
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @wmd: There are a number of weird problems with that analysis. Off the top of my head:

    1) Proclaiming that black turnout was similar to 2008 and 2012 presidential elections in which a black man was running for president is true but an astoundingly weird thing to compare to a special election for a senator in an off-year.

    2) Saying that black people weren’t the deciding factor but white people were is another odd assertion to make, given that margin of victory was ~1.5%. Literally every group that voted over 2% of the total was the “deciding factor”.

    3) It’s particularly weird to say “White voters made the difference! We should thank white people!” when the overwhelming majority of white voters voted for the child molesting crazy republican.

    4) Maybe… “Black voters consistently vote Democratic, and when assisted by a small minority of white voters can win elections even in Deep Red states” would be a better way to put this.

  57. 57
    Johannes says:

    @wmd: OK, admittedly this isn’t my area of expertise, but how are Presidential election years involving the election and reelection of the first African-American president reasonable comparators for measuring African-American turnout with an off-year election between two white candidates?

    ETA: I see Mister Forkbeard is making my point more ably. Whoops.

  58. 58
    Aleta says:

    I don’t see how group interviews on camera can be accurate enough to have any meaning. People adjust if they’re conscious of representing something bigger to a camera. Some adjust trying to give the interviewer what they think he’s after. A group sitting together finds a kind of unison as a response to an outside interviewer (unless maybe he’s spent time listening to them beforehand without a camera). A reporter popping in on a tight schedule won’t get past the automatic behavior. An interviewer who’s projecting himself won’t break the surface.

  59. 59
    tychay says:

    @wmd: ???

    So we are going to compare black turnout to a presidential election year at 98% but not do the same for white turnout at 40%? Talk about moving the goalposts.

    And we are going to say it was white democratic voters were the difference because the election was 1.5 points and without their votes he would have lost?

    The fact is Doug Jones made a huge push into the black belt communities and cities and it shows. You can see it in how he spent the money and who he asked from the DNC and DSCC to campaign for him. Some people are butt hurt that it doesn’t fit their racist narrative of the heroic WWC voter so they pick and choose the data to contradict it.

    The largest impact is that the democratic base was fired up and the republican base was either depressed or not nearly as fired up. The democratic base in this election were black voters first, and college educated whites a distant second. The republican base was white evangelicals and that was it (at least this election).

  60. 60
    Kathleen says:

    @Ruckus: Amen.

  61. 61
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Roger Moore:

    So what is getting working class white voters to stand by Trump?

    Racism. And yet you can’t get any news outlets to acknowledge this, even when the white people they’re interviewing are out-and-proud neo-Nazis. They’re always searching for the “real” answer even when their subjects tell them why they did it.

  62. 62
    lamh36 says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: There is DEF a pattern to the Lifetime has less of a formula, they seem a bit more complicated, but the also tend to end almost too quickly/abruptly.

    But still…I’m addicted!

  63. 63
    rikyrah says:

    Pé Resists‏ @4everNeverTrump

    A no-name Trump attorney publicizes a letter bashing Mueller with legally-dubious claims, contradictory assertions, misrepresentations and outright lies…

    And much of the media repeats the letter’s claims uncritically.

    This is how Trump became president.

    The letter wasn’t sent from Trump’s regular #TrumpRussia attorneys. It was sent by a two-person law firm in Phoenix which specializes in ARIZONA election law. That should have given everybody in the media pause. But it didn’t.

    The “lead” attorney at the firm does have DC Bar membership… but that’s extremely easy to obtain once you’re a member of the Bar in any other state. There’s no evidence he’s ever practiced law in DC.

    That Mueller has been forced to respond to this 2-bit hack’s attempt to muddy the waters is the actual scandal, not the bullshit in the letter.

    Trump’s regular attorneys also could have sent this letter; they didn’t, even though they’re not above transparent lying and politicking.

    That should have been a giveaway to those in the media at how dubious the letter’s claims were. Again: it wasn’t.

  64. 64
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @raven: sailboat!

  65. 65
    debbie says:

    Most are still confident in their decision to vote for him.

    Bullshit, they’re too stubborn to admit they made a mistake.

  66. 66
    Jager says:

    “16 Tons” by Tennessee Ernie Ford was released in 1955, nothings changed.

    “You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
    Another day older and deeper in debt
    Saint Peter don’t you call me ’cause I can’t go
    I owe my soul to the company store.”

  67. 67
    rikyrah says:

    James Gunn‏Verified account @JamesGunn

    James Gunn Retweeted Captain Common Sense

    In my years on social networking I have never spoken out politically. But we’re in a national crisis with an incompetent President forging a full-blown attack on facts and journalism in the style of Hitler and Putin. I’m okay with losing fans with my choice to speak out.

  68. 68
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Well, according to that NPR show, you are not alone in your addiction!

  69. 69

    @Mnemosyne: So one of the when people show you who they are, believe them moments.

  70. 70
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @rikyrah: “The media is awful” is a constant refrain for me, but it’s not a comforting one. Our media is awful and uncritically reports republican spin as fact, while simultaneously being highly skeptical of Democratic explanations of actual facts…

    That Uranium One is taken seriously by anyone outside of Info Wars is an indictment of our entire press corps.

  71. 71
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Only the best people….

    hall‏Verified account @joshtpm
    Lol. Same lawyer who wrote Mueller saying you better give us our emails back …

    Attorney Claims Scalia’s Votes In Pending Cases Should Still Count
    By Published FEBRUARY 22, 2016 10:59 AM
    With no apparent sarcasm, an Arizona attorney on Sunday proposed that the late Justice Antonin Scalia’s votes in cases pending before the Supreme Court should still count even though he died before the court issued its rulings.
    “There’s no Ouija board required to figure out how Justice Scalia would vote on these things, he’s already voted,” attorney Kory Langhofer said during a discussion on Phoenix, Arizona, television station KPNX. “We’re at the second-to-last step in how these cases unfold when Justice Scalia died.”
    Langhofer explained that the justices have already heard some cases, discussed them and taken an initial vote. He said that Scalia may have even written a draft opinion before he passed away.
    “We know exactly what he thought. And it’s not unprincipled to say we should give affect to that,” he said.

  72. 72
    rikyrah says:

    Reliable Sources‏Verified account @ReliableSources

    “This is the feedback loop in action.” In today’s opening essay, @brianstelter breaks down how right-wing commentators & GOP lawmakers are “echoing each other” in efforts to discredit Robert Mueller’s Russia probe.

  73. 73

    @Mnemosyne: Is that the same website run by crackpot Yves Smith? She be cray.

  74. 74
    tychay says:

    @Mnemosyne: Well put. And to continue my comment above:

    What the AL special election showed (and common with special elections in general) is identity politics won the day. It just happened that this time the democratic party’s identities outnumbered the racist republican identity.

    Cut the data all you like but with each election it’s getting increasingly harder to justify “economic insecurity” over the simpler explanation of “racism” (or “tribalism” if you are feeling politically correct).

  75. 75
    Millard Filmore says:

    EDIT: Removed since there would be no need to do that so publicly.

  76. 76
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Wow, yikes. After I posted my comment/query, I did hear about it. National news on NPR.

  77. 77
    Aleta says:

    The dresses in the ad up top are surreal, structured with weird angles, no one has a head, just a neck, and they all look like Ivanka.
    I looked at internet socks today but that’s all.

  78. 78
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Lapassionara: not going back until Tuesday. That should give them enough time to get the power back on.

  79. 79
  80. 80
    TS says:


    That Mueller has been forced to respond to this 2-bit hack’s attempt to muddy the waters is the actual scandal, not the bullshit in the letter.

    Brings back memories of all the times President Obama had to reply to equally ridiculous statements that the media built into something deep and meaningful.

  81. 81
    rikyrah says:

    A reckless con man as president: LA Times burns Trump to the ground in brutal editorial

    Source: Raw Story

    Writing in the LA Times, author and human rights activist Ariel Dorfman took the American electorate to task for electing “a reckless con man as president,” adding the country is now facing a reckoning.

    Dorfman admitted that he is tired of hearing about investigations into Russian collusion in the 2016 election of President Donald Trump when the focus should be on how in the hell did American voters let his election happen.

    “What is it, in our American soul that allowed the Russians to be successful?” he asked.

    “Those were not Russians voting in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, handing the election to the Republican candidate by a bit more than 80,000 votes. They were American men and women,” Dorfman wrote. “As were the 62,984,825 others who decided that such a troublesome, inflammatory figure expressed their desires and dreams. Trump could be impeached or resign, or his policies could simply implode under the weight of their malice, divisiveness and mendacity, and the country would still be defined and pressed by the same conditions and dread that enabled his rise.”

  82. 82
    lgerard says:

    The charming sidewalks and lamp posts of Beattyville’s Main Street were redone a few years ago,

    Thanks Obama!

  83. 83
    Lapassionara says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: around 6 hours so far. What a nightmare for people on the planes that have not yet gotten to gates. Shouldn’t airports plan for events like these?

  84. 84
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Betty Cracker: OK, no idea what it’s referring to but L’ingMAO anyway!

  85. 85
    PPCLI says:

    @MisterForkbeard: What is especially damning about the Uranium One story is that there is an obvious next question: if this is such a bad thing, why isn’t Trump forcing them to sell those rights to a US company? He seems to have no objection to undoing everything else that happened administration did. Why no action? If it’s such a terrible thing for national security, why isn’t tough guy Trump doing something about it?

  86. 86
    Aleta says:

    Mark Harris
    Been thinking about I, Tonya, Three Billboards, and The Florida Project as a triptych about anger and the white underclass and…The Florida Project comes out looking awfully good.

    To be clear I don’t think this is the only way to view these movies. But they cluster in my head the way the books White Trash, White Rage, Hillbilly Elegy and Strangers in Their Own Land did a year ago.

    Mark Harris‏
    Mark Harris Retweeted CNN
    Oh thank God, I hadn’t seen one of these stories in almost a day and I thought maybe the press had called in sick.
    “I wasn’t ready for a woman President”: 81% of voters in this small Kentucky town voted for Trump, and most are still confident in their decision to vote for him. “They need to kinda let him do his job. Just get off his…

    Mark Harris‏
    “At A Diner, Locals Say Country Would Be Better Off With A Democratic President.”
    This story. Just once. Please. I’m sure many diners and many locals would volunteer for it.

    Mark Harris‏
    “Trump just seems like a bad president who doesn’t understand policy and is kind of self-obsessed,” says Marge Danvers, 59, a Cleveland native, sipping her elitist latte that proves she is totally out of touch and maybe not even American.

  87. 87
    sdhays says:

    @wmd: I got this far:

    In other words, while blacks turning out at high levels for a special election was important, there was no way Jones could win without significant support from whites. And as Brunig shows, the swing in the white vote was what was responsible for Jones’ win, contrary to that the Might Wurlitzer of orthodox opinion has been pumping out.

    You could just as easily write that sentence:

    While a small, but significant, swing of anti-child molester whites was important, there was no way Jones could win without high levels of turnout from the Democratic base.

    Even though it’s Alabama, a small, but significant, minority of whites are still Democrats. At least part of the “swing” is likely white Democrats turning out at the same level as their black brothers and sisters and enough less-than-pro-child-molester Republicans discovering that voting conflicted with their bowling schedule.

    The overall story is of Democratic enthusiasm and Republican lack of enthusiasm. But the racist State of Alabama forces black voters to crawl over glass shards to vote, so they deserve more credit for getting it done. (I still can’t believe that they’ve closed every single DMV in black-majority rural counties after making state-issued ID a requirement for voting – and that they’ve gotten away with it so far!). I haven’t read anything on Naked Capitalism before, and I don’t think I’ll waste my time again.

  88. 88
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @PPCLI: Right. It doesn’t make sense at any level. Like, literally any level.

  89. 89

    Let’s see if this shows up.

    a reminder for today— Tyler Oakley (@tyleroakley) December 16, 2017

    ETA: Shoot. You have to click for the picture. It’s a cartoon of a dog, captioned “No need to be best. Only good and kind.”

  90. 90
    Sloane Ranger says:

    @cthulhu: You know I’ve read some interesting conspiracy theories here and elsewhere but I think you have the truth of it. It really is no deeper than this.

    BTW, I was watching what’s his name on CNN’s Reliable Sources and he was taking the story about a possible Mueller firing seriously and was openly outraged at the idea so I also agree that there’s little support for Trump among CNN presenters.

  91. 91
  92. 92
    Another Scott says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Only front-pagers can post graphics (full Tweets, images). The rest of us mere mortals have to click on links.

    Thanks for the picture. :-)


  93. 93
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    Speaking of the Jones victory in Alabama. My theory is this: since candidates on the Republican side in primaries keep getting crazier and crazier, could this open up seats in red seats, by turning off more moderate whites in conjunction with maximizing minority turnout?

  94. 94
    wmd says:

    The proportion of the electorate in the white/black demographics was virtually identical in the 3 years compared. Votes for Jones were similar to votes for Obama for black voters. Votes for Jones among white voters were double what Obama enjoyed.

    The cited post didn’t go into the change in turnout in the special election. We don’t have data saying that there was a change in the proportion of black voters/nonvoters in that post, however a doubling of votes for a Democrat among white voters seems pretty compelling to me.

    1342568 people voted in Alabama. 66% were white – so about 886,000 white voters.

    if they had voted against the Democrat as usual Jones would have received about 133,000 votes instead of the nearly 266,000 he did receive from whites. Jones’ margin was 121,000.

    total black vote was about 390,000. If they hadn’t turned out – Jones wouldn’t have won. But we don’t have data on voter participation rates for non presidential Alabama elections, so it’s not clear that there is an historic change.

  95. 95
    lamh36 says:

    Follow Follow @jsavite
    Cory Booker and his family are receiving death threats here in NJ. There was a threat to ‘lynch your whole family’.

    This is Trump’s America.

  96. 96
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @sdhays: Breunig, who quasi-doxed Joan Walsh– posted pictures of her former apartment to show she was rich and therefore could not be trusted– and called her a hag for having the temerity to support Hillary, last week posted a “study” that proved the Obama presidency was an economic disaster for African-Americans. His “study” included data from 2007-08.

  97. 97
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @rikyrah: What gets me is how Democrats don’t make more noise about supporting Mueller. I know that Democrats are not in the majority in Congress and don’t control whether MSM programs interview them but they can do more to get their message across. They should all be singing the same song right now: “If you fire Mueller, all hell is going to break loose in this country. Act at your own peril.”

  98. 98
    Suzanne says:


    I am looking forward to the stories of how these racist idiots’ votes have increased their very real suffering.

    #metoo. I also eagerly await their tears of rage as it grows ever clearer to them that no one thinks they’re virtuous or smart or hardworking or really any of the things they desperately want to be. They’re just…..SAD!

  99. 99
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Patricia Kayden: There are a number of Democrats doing exactly that.

    To the extent they’re showcased by the media, its usually to frame the Democrat as unhinged.

  100. 100
    thewesson says:

    @wmd: In off-year turnout approached election-year levels – for the Democrats but not the GOPers. I think black turnout did this, and white (Democratic) turnout did it too.

  101. 101
    Steeplejack says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    That’s hilarious!

  102. 102
    wmd says:

    @thewesson: It would be very interesting to know how many of the white Jones voters crossed over. It’s probably not the entire 133,000 more Democratic voters…

    The fact of the change in white vote for Jones exceeding Jones’ margin is just one piece of the puzzle. low GOP enthusiasm for Moore may be part of it, but the change seems bigger than can be explained by that alone.

  103. 103
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @lamh36: And Senator Booker needs to keep speaking out regardless. This is par for the course for Republicans. They try to bully and threaten those who speak out against their people. This has happened to Rep Maxine Waters and Rep. Frederica Wilson. Things will probably get a whole lot worse when Mueller begins to issue more indictments. Hopefully, the proper authorities are investigating all threats.

  104. 104
    Corner Stone says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I get the sense the D’s are supporting Mueller. But, IMO, it doesn’t make a lot of sense making threats you can’t cash. So verbal support, repeated often and strenuously, seems like the most(?) they can do at the moment.

  105. 105
    Corner Stone says:

    I get a laugh every time I see a pic of Roy Moore in his little hat.

  106. 106
    Steeplejack says:


    ETA: Her whole time line is pretty funny.

    “Lyle, Fran and I have been seated at your Taco Bell for over 30 minutes, and a waitress hasn’t taken our order.”

  107. 107
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    Booked the Countess and Mom an airport hotel at JFK slightly ahead of the rush, since they got diverted there from their CDG to ATL leg.

    The Countess now says “no more fucking Atlanta”, which I’ve been saying for years. This was mind bogglingly stupid.

  108. 108


    Mark Harris
    Been thinking about I, Tonya, Three Billboards, and The Florida Project as a triptych about anger and the white underclass and…The Florida Project comes out looking awfully good.

    To be clear I don’t think this is the only way to view these movies. But they cluster in my head the way the books White Trash, White Rage, Hillbilly Elegy and Strangers in Their Own Land did a year ago.

    That’s a very weird take on those movies.

  109. 109
    Shalimar says:

    @wmd: Go tweet yourself.

  110. 110
    Patricia Kayden says:


    There are a number of Democrats doing exactly that.

    Good to hear because it’s outrageous that Republicans are encouraging Trump to end Mueller’s investigation. This regime is sleazy beyond our wildest imaginations. I think most of us are going to be shocked at Mueller’s findings because we’re not aware of all the mess Trump and his sycophants are getting up to out of the public eye.

  111. 111
  112. 112
    Steeplejack says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I think I got on their e-mail list after that four-day, three-night package at Sandals Satellite VI.

  113. 113
    Shalimar says:

    @wmd: If you can’t figure out why black turnout in 2008 and 2012 may have been much higher than any other year and why it is a huge deal that level was achieved again in Alabama last Tuesday, you’re a total idiot. I apologize if that is correct and I was wrong in assuming you’re a troll.

  114. 114
    Corner Stone says:

    @Shalimar: The Vigilante reaches under his coat to reveal a sawed off double barrel pointing at the Bad Tweet Guy. The Vigilante slowly draws down the last of his cigarette, throws it under his boot heel and crushes it out.
    “Can’t be too careful these days, with all the wildfires. Now go tweet yourself, motherfucker.”

  115. 115
  116. 116
    Corner Stone says:

    @Steeplejack: Three nights! You animal!!

  117. 117
    Corner Stone says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Just asking, but who is pied in this thread?

  118. 118
  119. 119
    James E Powell says:


    I’ve made that same argument all over but the press/media work very hard to obscure reality.

    A very large percentage of American voters are racist assholes who delight in the suffering of the people they hate.

  120. 120
  121. 121
    Shalimar says:

    @Corner Stone: If I am remembering my trolls correctly, wmd was one of the big “Bernie was right, acknowledge our superiority” people after the election.

  122. 122
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    Oh, I just had an amazing speculation. What if this power outage was a “funny, funny” hack by l33t haXors. Can we then get away from our national fetish for attaching literally every critical database and/or infrastructure function to the Internet?

  123. 123
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    why would it be important to someone to discount the impact black voters had in AL?

  124. 124
    mike in dc says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Turns out not everyone on “the left” is a wonderful human being. Bruenig being one exhibit among several(Chapo Trap House, various Wilmer proxies, Matt Stoller, GG(not a real leftist, honestly, but..)..

  125. 125
    raven says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: The local news says a construction crew cut a cable. They are doing a ton of work there so I wouldn’t be surprised.

  126. 126
    Shalimar says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m pretty sure you’re way too smart to need racism explained to you.

  127. 127
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @mike in dc: I’m seeing Matt Stoller flinging poo in my regular twitter feeds today (Did you know Obama is worse than trump? Matt does). He’s in such a snit I wonder if his Wells Fargo muckety-muck pappy didn’t cut his allowance, or won’t pay for his flight for the family Xmas ski trip.

  128. 128
    SgrAstar says:

    @Steve in the ATL: AHEM. Jack London Square is not in SF. People watching in Oakland is ok, though.

  129. 129
    lamh36 says:

    Sen. Ted Cruz got in a Twitter battle with actor Mark Hamill and lost – badly via @houstonchron

  130. 130
    guachi says:


    Go tweet yourself.

    You get provided actual evidence of a surge in support for Jones among white voters in Alabama and respond with a lame insult.

    Looking at exit polls compared to 2012 Presidential the percentage of the black vote increased from 25% to 28% and the democrat’s share of that vote increased from 95% to 96%. Assuming that 1% increase is a real increase and not a statistical anomaly it’s about what you’d expect from a slump in Republican support.

    White support for Jones doubled from 15% to 30%. How much was crossover and how much was increase in democratic base support among whites we can’t say.

    Overall, increase in white support accounts for about 75% of the increase in support for Jones and black support about 25%. For Jones to win, it required a combination of factors beyond just (relatively) more enthusiastic black voters.

    It would be useful to Democrats to figure out what helped (specifically) drive higher black turnout and exactly where the increased white support came from. If you want to dismiss increased white support you can kiss a number of Senate and House seats goodbye as the Democrats will need to get heavy white support in many districts and states in order to get a majority.

  131. 131
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    Aww. What an ol’ softie!

  132. 132
    raven says:

    @SgrAstar: He sailed over there!

  133. 133
    Bill Arnold says:


    TL;dr black turnout and votes looks very similar to 2008 and 2012. White turnout is also comparable, but the number of votes for the democrat went from 15% to 30%.

    TL;dr, my opinion, is that Yves missed some key nuances, and numbers guy needs to pay closer attention to numbers. :-)
    (1) black turnout was rather higher than typical for a special election, and this was due (as described elsewhere) to a very good ground game.
    (2) If one drills down into the details a bit, the story about white turnout is also interesting. In particularly, comparing 2012 and 2017 exit polling (I know, extremely different elections, and exit polling isn’t completely trust-able), linked by Yves Smith (much appreciated style-wise BTW, if Yves sees this).

    (a) in 2012 1 percent of self-identified Republicans voted for the Democrat
    (b) in 2017 8 percent of self-identified Republicans voted for the Democrat (Doug Jones)
    Repeating that, 8 percent of Republicans felt disgusted (or something) enough with Moore to vote for the Democrat. (A white Democrat, OK.)
    (c) perhaps also a similar shift among independents.

    2012 (Alabama):
    Vote by Party ID
    Democratic:34% 90% 9% 1%
    Republican:43% 1% 98% 1%
    Independent:24% 23% 75% 2%

    2017 (Alabama reconstructed in same style as above):
    Vote by Party ID
    Democratic: 37% 98% 2% 0%
    Republican: 43% 8% 91% 1%
    Independent 21% 51% 43% 5%

  134. 134
    ThresherK says:

    ABC, whose balls are missing and presumed dead, just referred to John McCain as a “legendary” Senator.

  135. 135
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @ThresherK: the coming media apotheosis will last for months. It will make the glorification of Russert look understated. It occurred to me the other day that they might appoint Cindy to fill out his term to save themselves from having to find two candidates not named Kelly Ward

  136. 136
    Chyron HR says:


    Sure, the legendary maverick who didn’t actually exist.

  137. 137
    mai naem mobile says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I can’t be bothered to look it up but I am pretty sure Kory Langhofer is a GOP party official. Either a County or State Chair or Treasurer. I know I’ve seen that name in political pieces in the local paper.


  138. 138
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Bill Arnold:
    Ah, dang, Yves was commenting on this piece by Matt Bruenig. Same points hold.
    What actually happened in Alabama?
    Matt ignored (or at least didn’t write about) one very interesting dimension, party affiliation.

  139. 139
    Aleta says:

    Oliver Willis‏

    Democrats need to excise the term “raises serious concerns” from their rhetoric. “This is wrong” “this is bad” “this is deranged” “this is reprehensible” “this is fucked up.” Use words like they matter because they do.

  140. 140
    raven says:

    Power by midnight in the ATL they say.

  141. 141
    wmd says:

    @guachi: There is a real problem with some commenters being unwilling to look at analysis that contradicts their received wisdom. Ad hominem responses don’t actually illuminate anything. It’s a fairly typical response, but I much prefer folks that engage on substance.

    Thanks for adding a bit to the premise – the story is not entirely one of mobilization of black voters… the WaPo article linked to by Yves goes into more detail on who voted for whom. What can’t be dismissed is something motivated a substantial number of white voters to vote for a Democrat. Moore being a nutjob and pedophile is part of that, but it is worth understanding if there’s more to it than that. The reporting on Trump Approval among Alabama special election voters suggests this does matter for 2018.

  142. 142
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Rep. Eric Swalwell‏Verified account @ RepSwalwell
    “Private documents” on a US Government, public email system? What are they afraid was found? Baloney. This is another attempt to discredit Mueller as his #TrumpRussia probe tightens.

    #BREAKING realDonaldTrump objects to Mueller obtaining video of his obstruction of justice admission to LesterHoltNBC. Worries his tweets may also be used as evidence.

  143. 143
    Miss Bianca says:

    btw, Anne Laurie , I love “Ashitcan Farewell”. Is that an AL Neologism? : )

    (Speaking as a fan of the original tune and “knew it when-ner” before it became a huge Ken Burns trope)

  144. 144
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    That should give them enough time to feed the hamsters and start them running on their little exercise wheels so they can get the power back on.

    It occurs to me, it’s been a while since we heard a thing about Trump’s beautiful, so great, the best since the beginning of time infrastructure plan.

    ETA: IIRC, it wasn’t much of anything to begin with except rollbacks of some health and safety regulations — and was derailed anyhow by one of his “Oh-look-a-squirrel!” distractions or tweetstorms.

  145. 145
    mike in dc says:

    The problem with the focus on white voter shift in the Moore race is that it’s likely not duplicable, because of the unique conditions in the race(Moore being an alleged child molester). But black voter turnout might be duplicable. And Bruenig’s comparison was extreme intellectual dishonesty, comparing 2008 and 2012(presidential election with Obama at head of ticket) with an off-year special election. Comparison with black turnout for a midterm or offyear election would be apples to apples. In his short time in the public space, Bruenig has alienated plenty of people and spewed a fair amount of bullshit across the net. He has yet to actually apologize for anything or acknowledge any error.

  146. 146


    it’s been a while since we heard a thing about Trump’s beautiful, so great, the best since the beginning of time infrastructure plan.

    Yeah, funny that. Haven’t heard much about “the Big Beautiful Wall” either.

  147. 147
    Bill Arnold says:


    What can’t be dismissed is something motivated a substantial number of white voters to vote for a Democrat.

    What also can’t be dismissed is that something motivated a substantial number of Republicans to vote for Democrat, and there may be other interesting dimensions that I haven’t noticed yet.
    (I’m still staring fascinated at the numbers, fwiw. Tx for the link)

  148. 148
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I’ve heard a few people say over the last week that he’s going to announce an infrastructure plan at the SOTU, but I don’t know if there’s any source to that

  149. 149
    mike in dc says:

    @Bill Arnold: Uh, yeah. It was the fact the Republican candidate dated teenaged girls when he was in his 30s, and his Democratic opponent didn’t. Not sure you can duplicate that motivation elsewhere in other races. Getting out the black vote, though, that you can conceivably do.

  150. 150
    wmd says:

    @mike in dc:
    There’s value in saying that black voter turnout made the difference if it helps to duplicate high black voter turnout in 2018 – if it translates into high turnout in 2018 elections because black voters feel empowered by this win.

    I’ve not read any other work by Bruenig. The doubling of white votes for Jones really stands out though. It may very well be due to Moore being a nutjob and pedophile – the vote by education level polling seems to support that explanation. If that is the reason for the swing among whites then it isn’t likely replicable – incumbents like Louis Gohmert aren’t going to lose support even though they’re clearly nutjobs.

  151. 151
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Shouldn’t airports plan for events like these?

    Yes, yes, they should.

  152. 152

    The MSM has no interest in reporting on non-Trump voters because their OWNERS have no interest in them. They also have no interest in black voters in Alabama or anywhere else. These two things are not unrelated.

  153. 153
    mike in dc says:

    @wmd: I think you might be able to explain some small portion of the increase by the appeal of Jones, the extreme positions of Moore, and the unusually strong GOTV and media campaign of Jones. But most of that increase, I think, is simply due to the scandal tainting the Republican candidate.

  154. 154
    Corner Stone says:


  155. 155
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    this game is pretty damn good, made better by watching frustrated Pittsburgh fan Cole’s twitter feed while watching

  156. 156
    Corner Stone says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I don’t like either team but that does make the outcome sweeter.

  157. 157
    Corner Stone says:

    I honestly have had no idea what a catch is for like the last two years now.

  158. 158
    👩🏽‍🔬 Martin says:

    Someone take Coles shoelaces away please.

  159. 159
    debbie says:

    Call the Midwife seems to have started a new season without telling anyone. 😡

  160. 160
    👩🏽‍🔬 Martin says:

    Pats get bye and home field. Key win for them.

  161. 161
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @wmd: It’s a fairly typical response, but I much prefer folks that engage on substance.

    Well, Precious, maybe a snottily dismissive waving away of black voters, while citing Matt Breunig as an authority, wasn’t a smart way to attempt a “substantive” discussion

    Umm, the narrative that surging black vote made the difference in Alabama isn’t correct

  162. 162
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    The local news says a construction crew cut a cable. They are doing a ton of work there so I wouldn’t be surprised.

    Not surprised the crew sliced through a cable — it happens — but seriously amazed there’s no backup power generation at the airport. That’s just cheap, short-sighted, and stupid.

  163. 163
    Steeplejack says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Srsly. That looked like a legit catch to me.

  164. 164
    Corner Stone says:

    There’s no doubt the ball moved. You can see the laces rotate when he goes to the ground. But should it still be a catch? I still don’t know what rules they are using to determine that.

  165. 165
    Tehanu says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Eventually, there’ll be one Trump supporter left

    And it will be in his pants.

  166. 166
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Completely O/T: What are you doing with the pups while you’re partying it up at the Rose Bowl?

  167. 167
    Shalimar says:

    @wmd: It has nothing to do with contradicting received wisdom. The margin was 22,000 votes. All groups that voted for Jones were necessary for victory, and all increases in turnout mattered. But you weren’t saying that white voters deserved credit too. You were saying they deserved the credit instead of the black voters who are getting it. To which, go fuck off.

  168. 168
    mike in dc says:

    @👩🏽‍🔬 Martin: Vikings 11-3. 2 wins away from home field except against the Eagles. If the Vikings win the NFC championship, they will play….at home in Vikings Stadium in Minny. Which should be the dominant story if they make it, except we all fucking know if the Patriots make it the media will be slobbering all over Brady for 2 weeks.

  169. 169
    Corner Stone says:

    @Tehanu: Athletic Supporter in his pants? So if he were to be #SavageNutpunch then it may not be as effective?

  170. 170
    Fair Economist says:


    You get provided actual evidence of a surge in support for Jones among white voters in Alabama and respond with a lame insult.

    Looking at exit polls compared to 2012 Presidential the percentage of the black vote increased from 25% to 28% and the democrat’s share of that vote increased from 95% to 96%. Assuming that 1% increase is a real increase and not a statistical anomaly it’s about what you’d expect from a slump in Republican support.

    You think African-American turnout for Jones should be compared to that for a Presidential election with the first African-American President? Wut?

    The NYT much more reasonably compares it to the 2014 Congressional elections, and estimates turnout is up 30 percent (!!!). That would mean unexpectedly high African-American turnout accounts for about half of Jones’ win. Given that Moore’s problems aren’t reliably reproducible in other Republican candidates, the African-American turnout is much more relevant to our success elsewhere.

  171. 171
    Chyron HR says:


    It’s a fairly typical response, but I much prefer folks that engage on substance.

    Remember when John Lewis dared to claim that Messiah B. wasn’t one of the leaders of the civil rights movement, and you guys’ response was to send Rep. Lewis a bunch of death threats? Hooray for engaging on substance!

  172. 172
    Shalimar says:

    @Corner Stone: He caught the ball, made a lunge towards the end zone and crossed the plane. The ball hit the ground afterwards, which should be a fumble if it wasn’t already a touchdown. If the rules say that wasn’t a catch, then they fucked up the catch rules beyond all logic.

  173. 173
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    have we fully considered the possibility that Melania is a source for Mueller? Melanie and Tiffany, working together to get the Beast and the Large Adult Offspring out of the way?

  174. 174
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    And what of the votes of all the other dead Justices, such as those of Thurgood Marshall?

  175. 175
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I was (and am) truly hoping that he’ll be out of office by the time of the scheduled SOTU. Feel quite sick just thinking about him occupying that well, with Pence and Ryan smirking behind him.

  176. 176
    Shalimar says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I was actually surprised by the story that friends call Melania to get through to Donald. I had assumed they slept in separate bedrooms and rarely spoke at all. I doubt either she or Tiffany knows anything.

  177. 177
    LanceThruster says:

    Team Hillary in the primary against Obama often made the case that America wasn’t ready for a black president.

  178. 178
    Heywood J. says:

    Just what the world needs, yet another Cletus safari. I sincerely hope every one of those dipshits gets exactly what they voted for. Sounds like they are. And may the mediots who keep covering them, rather than talking to a single person who voted with the majority, be forced to find honest work in the near future.

  179. 179
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I suspect you’re mostly joking, but I’ve also thought several times that Melanie might well be a subversive (I mean that in the good way).

  180. 180
    Corner Stone says:

    @Shalimar: He landed on a knee and used the momentum to forward his movement towards the end zone. He was not down and did not give up his body, ending the play. The continued motion included a move into the end zone where his torso, hands and the ball all hit the ground. The ball moved. The laces clearly rotated several inches.
    I’m not saying that’s not a catch, as IMO he clearly controlled the ball the whole time. But whatever fucked up rules they keep using for the last two seasons say that ball has to survive contact with the ground. It did not.

  181. 181
    Yutsano says:

    @raven: You know…when I was caught in the meltdown in 2016, they kept saying we would be in the air soon…only to delay and cancel flights more.

    I’m half-tempted to stalk Delta’s Twitter feed now.

  182. 182
    mike in dc says:

    To cut to the chase on the question of white voter outreach, based upon the above link, the ceiling for Democrats is likely around 44-45%, with the floor about 10 points below that. Assuming a white share of the electorate in 2020 is around 70%, that means getting between 24.5 and 31.5 points of support from whites, and assuming our share of non-white votes runs between 70 and 85%, that means getting between 21 and 25.5 points of support from non-white voters. Note, that in the extreme scenario where racial polarization is maximized, it’s still possible for Democrats to net 50% of the popular vote in a national election. In 2040, the white share will be down to 60%(or less), and in 2060, down to 50% or less.
    What’s my point? In the short term, there’s some value in trying to max out the white vote(to 44-45%). But in the medium to long term, solidifying non-white turnout and lopsided support for Democrats is where the most votes are.

  183. 183
    Hellbastard says:

    Of course, I’m a left coast liberal elitist for looking down on anyone who isn’t “ready for a woman president.”

  184. 184
    Bill Arnold says:

    @mike in dc:

    Not sure you can duplicate that motivation elsewhere in other races. Getting out the black vote, though, that you can conceivably do.

    Not disagreeing that the black vote was key (and richly deserving of praise). Just looking for all available levers, even little ones. Note for example that prior to the election, the RW media undertook a massive effort to neuter/moderate the disgust. They were trying to swing the Republican vote.

  185. 185
    NotMax says:


    Iraq: Parliament Rejects Marriage for 8-Year-Old Girls

    At this point, cannot say with unqualified certainty our Congress would do the same.

  186. 186
  187. 187
    laura says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Dear friend, if you’re in Jack London Square, you are not people watching in San Francisco- though your close…

  188. 188
    Bill Arnold says:

    @mike in dc:

    But in the medium to long term, solidifying non-white turnout and lopsided support for Democrats is where the most votes are.

    Agreed. Just want to get to the medium to long term. This means using all levers, even short-term and one-shot levers.

  189. 189
    Jeffro says:

    Jesus do I ever hate the fucking New England Patriots and everyone associated with them

  190. 190
    RobertDSC-Mac Mini says:

    Just glad the Pats won in Pittsburgh tonight.

  191. 191
    Sloane Ranger says:

    Totally unrelated to anything that has gone before but have to share. Mo Farrah has just won Sports Personality of the Year and the BBC news is reporting that some people who disagreed have phoned the police to complain.

    And these people get to vote. Totally explains Brexit!

  192. 192

    Dear lord

    I can't overemphasize how exceedingly patient my fellow passengers have been – esp the young ones. And crew/pilot have been GREAT. But we have also all now been on this full @Delta plane since we boarded at 11:45 am and there hasn't been food or water since late afternoon.— Betsy Klein (@betsy_klein) December 18, 2017

  193. 193
    Mnemosyne says:

    @mike in dc:

    And Bruenig’s comparison was extreme intellectual dishonesty, comparing 2008 and 2012(presidential election with Obama at head of ticket) with an off-year special election. Comparison with black turnout for a midterm or offyear election would be apples to apples.

    Yep. I think Bill Arnold has found something interesting in the statistics about the number of declared Republicans who voted for Jones over Moore, but I honestly don’t think that attempting to target those voters instead of African-American voters is going to do us much good. Energize the Democratic base — African-American voters — and then worry about the rest.

  194. 194
    Miss Bianca says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It certainly makes a better story that way!

  195. 195
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Hellbastard: IKR? I must be one too, and I live in flyover country!

  196. 196
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Beattyville, Kentucky, a small town on the edge of Daniel Boone National Forest where Donald Trump won 81% of the vote.

    Beattyville has only gone blue once in the last 67 years (1964).

    You never see the “mainstream” media go to Berkeley or Vermont and ask voters about their vote.

  197. 197
    david says:

    So, is Cole OK? I mean, we all saw the end of “that game”.

  198. 198
    John Revolta says:

    @Corner Stone: Huh. I haven’t been paying much attention to the NFL recently………..what happened to “the ground can’t cause a fumble”?

  199. 199
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Jesus do I ever hate the fucking New England Patriots and everyone associated with them

    Just glad the Pats won in Pittsburgh tonight.

    Bernie Woulda Won!

  200. 200
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Sloane Ranger:
    I can’t seem to find the story on Aunty’s website. Do you have a link?

  201. 201
    bystander says:

    Can we have a thread to liveblog A Christmas Story Live? I hate that story in all its forms, but this overblown musical looks like an Onion Production. And, yes, I’m kidding about a thread.

  202. 202
    mai naem mobile says:

    @Shalimar: Melania comes across as a bit of a dim bulb to me. I can’t believe she’s been in this country for so long and has such a string accent and can’t even speak English properly. My parents moved here when they were much older and my mom who isn’t very educated speaks english better than Melania and with less of an accent. I doubt she wound even understand the language of a proposition she could vote on.

  203. 203
    Corner Stone says:

    @mai naem mobile:

    I doubt she wound even understand the language of a proposition

    I am pretty sure she would understand when she’s being propositioned.

  204. 204
    wmd says:

    @Shalimar: `The margin was 122,000 votes. There were 133,000 more whit voters for Jones than is typical for Alabama elections.

    Presenting a unidimensional “black turn out made the difference” is dishonest. But it is received wisdom so looking further is not interesting to you. So go on with the ad hominems. They really do aid understanding.

  205. 205
    👩🏽‍🔬 Martin says:

    @John Revolta: Seems to me if OBJ had dropped that catch when he hit the ground, nobody would have questioned it as incomplete. I don’t see how this is any different.

  206. 206
    Miss Bianca says:

    @bystander: I’ve somehow managed to avoid seeing that movie my whole life, tho’ I’ve been meaning to for years, because I feel like I must be missing a fairly substantial number of cultural references, this time of year.

  207. 207
    Corner Stone says:

    @John Revolta: For a runner that still remains the rule, IIRC. But they made a receiver maintain control through the impact of going to the turf. If they catch the ball, put two feet down and then make an athletic move – that’s a catch. And if they get the ball knocked out after, before a knee, leg or butt cheek is down, that’s a fumble.

  208. 208
    Sloane Ranger says:

    @Amir Khalid: sorry, too internet illiterate to do a link but if you Google Mo Farah sports personality police complaints and look under news you should find the story.

  209. 209
    Miss Bianca says:

    @mai naem mobile: IT’S ALL PART OF THE PLOT. She just wants you to *think* she’s a dim bulb. What better way to undermine the whole House of Trump than from…within?/

  210. 210
    JR says:

    I just watched my first few seconds of football this year (and probably the last) just so that i’d have something to laugh at my fellows about tomorrow.

  211. 211
    Corner Stone says:

    @wmd: I feel like I have entered Crazy Town.

  212. 212
    Corner Stone says:

    @JR: You did good.

  213. 213
    Corner Stone says:

    @Miss Bianca: Why do I keep envisioning remakes of the soap TV show Dallas being made with this cast?

  214. 214
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    I had avoided it for years, but then one year when the entire family gathered at my sister’s for Christmas, it was run constantly for 24 hours, and I couldn’t avoid it.

    Hated everything about it. All the parts that were supposed to be clever and funny came across as tedious and vulgar. Hope I am never anywhere close to any iteration of it ever again.

  215. 215
    John Revolta says:

    Okay then.

  216. 216
    Bill Arnold says:

    So, looking at the compromise tax bill, and various tax calculators,
    ( looks pretty.)
    it appears that my Federal income taxes will be going up in excess of $3000. Of course not looking for sympathy, just reminding myself and others that D. Trump and almost all of the other national-level Republicans are lying liars and partisan a-holes. Some other parts of the bill, like paying (in part) for corporate tax cuts by arranging that 13 million fewer Americans have insurance/will be eligible for subsidies (with the propaganda line pre-in-place that it will be their own fault), are genuinely odious.
    Details (perhaps too much info but so it goes):
    (a) middle-upper-middle-class (b) co-“owning” (with a bank) a home (c) living in a high tax area of a high tax state (d) new tax bill caps state and local tax deduction to $10000.
    Also I expect that local real estate prices will take a hit (maybe 5-10 percent) and house equity (bank owns some) very roughly 10-20 percent. That will suck personally (on top of 30 percent in 2008/9), good for first time buyers though.

  217. 217
    Miss Bianca says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: In other words, a candidate for the “Well, There Goes *That* Two Hours of My Life” award?

  218. 218
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Corner Stone:
    I see Donald Trump as more of a JR type than a Jock type, myself. I have no idea who in that bunch would be the Bobby analogue.

  219. 219
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Judd Legum‏Verified account @ JuddLegum
    What is wrong with these people

    Ted Cruz, Slabhead Donnie and an Obama cake. Apparently this is funny if you were raised (or neglected and I suspect abused) by the Rough Beast

  220. 220
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Amir Khalid: trump is William Bendix in Born Yesterday.

  221. 221
    Schlemazel says:

    Thats odd because I have never met anyone that hated it before. Not everyone is excited about seeing it but they don’t hate it. I think it is a much better “Christmas redeemed” story than anything playing non-stop on Lifetime or Hellmark channel.

  222. 222
    Mnemosyne says:


    Presenting a unidimensional “black turn out made the difference” is dishonest.

    Just can’t stand Black people getting credit for anything, can you?

    When you have 90+ percent of Black people voting for Jones and 70+ percent of white people voting for Moore, no one is interested in the small margin of white people who were smart enough to realize that voting for a child molester was a bad idea. Why are we supposed to celebrate the small number of white people in Alabama who have some fucking sense of morality outside of their tribal identity as white people? Why are they supposed to get a special cookie for acting like rational human beings?

  223. 223
    Wapiti says:

    @mai naem mobile: My uneducated guess is that Ms. Trump is, by nature of her wealth and scumbag husband, more isolated than your mother was. She’s surrounded by servants who aren’t going to correct her and sycophants who tell her she has practically no accent.

  224. 224
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    I’m going to go against the tide and say that I like A Christmas Story. Watching it on commercial TV where it’s constantly interrupted is probably not the best way to see it (sorry, SD!) because so much of the humor of it depends on the voiceover by its writer, Jean Shepherd (who is a dude despite the spelling of his first name). It’s very episodic and builds to some small, subtle epiphanies that would be easily missed watching it with commercial interruptions. It’s no It’s a Wonderful Life, but it’s a pretty good modern Christmas story.

    I have no opinion on the live musical version, so viewer beware on that one.

  225. 225
    Another Scott says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It looks like a giant cookie with a decoration that was beyond the capabilities of the baker, to me. And was obviously a joke.

    I’m having trouble getting outraged about it, while the government will shut down December 22 unless they pass some sort of budget (temporary or not), etc., etc.


  226. 226
    Corner Stone says:

    @Schlemazel: I have not watched it in 20+ years and if it comes on I immediately scroll past. There is nothing redeeming about that show.

  227. 227
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Mnemosyne: I haven’t watched it in years, but I enjoyed it. Have no interest in the musical version thought

    @Another Scott: I’m not outraged, I just don’t get what’s supposed to be funny (?) about it, which I think is why Slabhead is making that face, and why he posted it. And why the apolitical COO or whatever he is of the Trump Group or whatever it is, is hanging out with Ted Cruz

  228. 228
    Schlemazel says:

    I grew up in a neighborhood full of immigrant families. Many of the first gen never learned enough English to make their way alone, most of those that did carried some amount of accent, some more, some less. I will never complain about people who speak accented English because it can be harder for some than others.

  229. 229
  230. 230

    @Mnemosyne: It’s almost as if there’s an agenda there.

  231. 231
    Ken says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    a fairly substantial number of cultural references

    1. “You’ll shoot your eye out”

    2. “Frah-GEE-lay”

    You’re welcome.

  232. 232
    Another Scott says:

    @Schlemazel: I enjoy the movie too, and got the collection of stories that has it a couple of years ago too. It pushes lots of “I remember stuff like that!” buttons with me, also too.

    But running it 24 hours straight is just laziness.

    And I’m not sure that a live retelling make much sense, no matter how much I love Kaczmarek.

    Different strokes.


  233. 233
    Another Scott says:

    @Ken: Ovaltine Decoder Ring!!!11



  234. 234
    oatler. says:

    Considering the vintage of the movie, I’m surprised I haven’t seen dual portraits of Ronald Reagan and John Hughes. S

  235. 235
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Schlemazel: both my grandmothers were born in Ireland and came to this country in their early twenties and lived till their early nineties. One had a much stronger brogue than the other, and a much more romantic vision of the Old Country. I always figured there was some degree of will in her accent, even if unconscious

  236. 236
    Schlemazel says:

    @Another Scott:
    agreed, over exposure is not helping it at all. that id TBS fault, not the stories.

    I love Jean Sheppard’s work. a hundred years ago he did a series on PBS and it was all his tales of growing up in the industrial Midwest in the years following WWII. He found the humor in a lot of mundane and even painful events I could relate to.

  237. 237
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    I’ve been making up names for factions/states for this story I’ve been planning. Which sounds better: Federated Union of Systems vs Federated Union of Worlds? The second one to me sounds too much like Star Trek (tho it’s meant to be a homage) and “world” sounds lame compared to “planet”. I’m not sure “system” is the right term since not every member would have control over their home star system.

  238. 238
    Corner Stone says:

    @Amir Khalid: Trump would have to be written as JR, for sure. But in a Dukes of Hazzard Boss Hogg kind of way. Not the competent, but evil, business man JR actually was.
    But think about it. Cross over the Dallas and Dynasty characters – Ivanka as Linda Evans. Melania as Joan Collins who brings the receipts?

  239. 239
    Schlemazel says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Could be will, could also be ear; some people don’t pick up the differences as well.

  240. 240
    Schlemazel says:

    Actual hockey fans are are missing a decent game. USA-Canada tied at 1 wil 6 minutes left in the 3rd, US just going on the PP

  241. 241
    jl says:

    I’ve long thought there are corporate ad and marketing reasons for the focus. Some gullible people will buy anything, absolutely any kind of garbage. They must be profitable viewers for advertisers. Why not try to attract that demographic?

    Corrupt to cater to them this way for a news organization, but I think most of US corporate news is corrupt.

    If anybody sees a national piece focusing on normal people, say Alabama blacks, or millennials of all descriptions, or college educated white GOPers, who decided to work hard, and turn out to vote for Jones, let me know. I’d be interested to see that.

  242. 242

    @Schlemazel: May be they can and don’t want to change the way they speak or sound. Everyone drools over the upper class British accent over here. I don’t see these value judgments about accents when a Hugh Laurie or some British actor opens his mouth.
    I mixed up wreck and wreak in a late night comment because I was tired, and I was called a non-native on this fucking blog. And the assumption was that I didn’t understand the difference between the two words. So no matter how good/bad your English is, as an immigrant, you are always a fucking outsider.

  243. 243
    Ken says:

    @Another Scott: I was skipping ones that work without the movie. Otherwise I’d have added “Oh, fudge”, getting your tongue stuck to the flagpole, and Christmas dinner at a Chinese restaurant.

  244. 244
    Corner Stone says:

    @schrodingers_cat: People go pedant over all kinds of shit. I have been slammed for my pronouncing pin and pen the same. Who called you a non-native?
    I skimmed that thread, didn’t seem balls out at the time. Maybe I exited before it got cray.

  245. 245
    Corner Stone says:

    Ok, tough call here. Do I want Popeyes takeout? Or Hot n Ready pizza? There is no third option and I am not going to be slut shamed on this.

  246. 246
    germy says:

    Hot take:

    nothing troubles the lib mind more than when you tell them that women and people of color make up the majority of the republican party, even though it's so obviously and demonstrably true— Matt Bruenig (@MattBruenig) December 16, 2017

    check and mate, Libs!

  247. 247

    @Corner Stone: No lamb curry? I made a beef curry in yogurt in the slow cooker last week, like pot roast but spicy!

  248. 248

    @Corner Stone: May be I am being a touch sensitive. They did apologize later.

  249. 249
    Cacti says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Is there a dumber place to use for a hideout than the ice planet Hoth?

    Yes. The salt planet Crait, where the hideout doesn’t even have a back exit.

  250. 250
    Shalimar says:

    @wmd: You didn’t address my point. You’re trying to change a unidimensional “black turnout made all the difference” message to a unidimensional “white turnout made all the difference” message. It was your provocative framing that made it racist, and ignoring that point repeatedly makes it obvious that the racism was intentional, not accidental.

  251. 251
    geg6 says:


    It basically a documentary of my childhood. I’m a bit younger but the lower middle class ethics and small town life depicted rings completely true to me. Other than the fact that we weren’t agnostic like the family in the film seems to be (we were Midnight Mass Catholics, meaning we were prominent Catholics in our blue collar parish), that family is very much like mine, with too few women and a few years before my time (but not many).

  252. 252

    @bystander: I liked the movie. I’d watch it once each December (no TBS marathons in my house, TYVM), but the year of the Sandy Hook shooting I couldn’t bring myself to watch a movie about a little kid wanting any kind of gun. Haven’t gotten back around to it since.

  253. 253
    germy says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    @ IT’S ALL PART OF THE PLOT. She just wants you to *think* she’s a dim bulb. What better way to undermine the whole House of Trump than from…within?/

    Melania Bot

  254. 254
    Corner Stone says:

    @schrodingers_cat: No. I haven’t been back to my local spot in months. Just seems weird. If I walked in there and had 6 guys staring me down I would probably leave in cuffs. So, no. And I have spent maybe 100 hours this week cleaning spaces in my house and am not about to start cooking just yet. So take-out it is!

  255. 255
    wmd says:

    When the change in the white vote is larger than the margin of victory it is more worthy. Absent 133,000 white voters that weren’t expected to vote for Jones then Moore wins by 11,000.

    Go ahead and tell me I can’t stand giving credit yo black voters… I’ve already said that if the victory in Alabama can be replicated in the mid terms that’s great. And framing high turnout as part of jones’ win can help create that momentum. But it is dishonest to say it is the reason for Jones winning.

  256. 256
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I’m not really worried about this as I think it’s just that much more bullshit flung to give the Fox/Republican feedback loop more talking points and lead simple-minded Broderist cable anchors to ask leading questions that start with furrowed brow and “Don’t the president’s defenders have a point…”, but I am curious about the argument that Meuller wouldn’t need a warrant because there’s no reasonable expectation of privacy. Lawyers?

    Renato Mariotti
    1/ As I told NatashaBertrand, this is a publicity stunt and political attack, not a serious legal challenge. Trump’s lawyers are complaining to Congress because their legal argument is a loser. No court would take it seriously.
    2/ Prosecutors often obtain emails from a third party, like Google or Yahoo. When they do so, they typically obtain a warrant. Here, they obtained them from a government agency without a warrant.
    3/ Why were they able to do that? Because the Trump team signed an agreement saying that they had no expectation of privacy as to the emails on the server. That settles the entire issue because warrants are only necessary when you have a reasonable expectation of privacy.
    4/ When you agree that you don’t have privacy as to something, you can’t raise a Fourth Amendment challenge. That’s why they’re making arguments to Congress and haven’t bothered contacting Mueller. It’s a stunt. /end

  257. 257
    Emma says:

    @schrodingers_cat: If I had 100 bucks for all the screwups I have seen by “natives” I could pay for a month’s first class vacation to India. Including a private train.

  258. 258
    Redshift says:

    @Mnemosyne: I like it, too. I have friends who loved it and quoted it frequently, but I never saw it until years later. I was always a big James Garner fan.

    Ms. Redshift put on the musical, and I think it’s pretty good, mostly because they seem to have the sense not to mess with the story. The previous “live” musicals I haven’t been able to sit through (like the one of Hairspray), because they decided they had to do something “original” with them.

  259. 259
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:


    That’s not even wrong.

  260. 260
    Cacti says:


    Go ahead and tell me I can’t stand giving credit yo black voters

    Okay, you can’t stand giving credit to black voters.

    Your god, Bernie also tried to take credit for a win he had zero part in bringing about.

  261. 261

    @Corner Stone: How is the pizza in your neck of the woods? We have some great pizza here in the frozen northeastern tundra. Its only December and I tired of winter.

  262. 262

    @germy: That is so stupid that it doesn’t even merit a response.

  263. 263
    germy says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I’d never heard of him, so I check his tweets. He’s from the left? He spends an awful lot of time retweeting right wing memes.

  264. 264

    @germy: First time I am hearing of this dude, as well.

  265. 265
    germy says:

    @schrodingers_cat: It’ll be the last time for me.

  266. 266
    Corner Stone says:

    @schrodingers_cat: In Houston you can get excellent pizza from a number of places. From my area we have one that’s not bad at all. But I was mentioning something that’s just extra pepperoni and cheese and you pick it up and go. Too late for that now as they sell out by 8:15 or so most nights.

  267. 267
    geg6 says:


    Funny. I despise It’s A Wonderful Life and find A Christmas Story a vastly superior film. One is saccharine and treacly and one is closer to (my) actual experience. I like Jimmy Stewart but this is not in his top 20 films. It makes me gag, it’s so cliched.

  268. 268
    Mnemosyne says:


    When the change in the white vote is larger than the margin of victory it is more worthy. Absent 133,000 white voters that weren’t expected to vote for Jones then Moore wins by 11,000.

    Still waiting for the apples-to-apples comparison of two special elections held in mid-December, rather than comparing presidential election turn-out to a special election held in mid-December.

    And, yes, using slanted statistics to insist that white voters really deserve all the credit when everyone else is giving credit to Black voters is fucking racist. Full stop.

  269. 269
    guachi says:

    @Fair Economist:

    he NYT much more reasonably compares it to the 2014 Congressional elections, and estimates turnout is up 30 percent (!!!). That would mean unexpectedly high African-American turnout accounts for about half of Jones’ win. Given that Moore’s problems aren’t reliably reproducible in other Republican candidates, the African-American turnout is much more relevant to our success elsewhere.

    If the linked article is correct and black turnout increased 30% and overall turnout increased 13% then a rough estimate is that black Democratic votes were 23.75% of total votes in 2014 and white Democratic votes were 11.25% of total votes.

    In 2018 black Democratic votes represented about 27.3% of total votes and white Democratic votes were 21.4% of total votes. That puts white Democratic vote increase at 10.15% and black Democratic vote increase at 3.6%. So white votes were still 3/4 of the increase and black votes 1/4 of the increase, not half.

    The NYT link meshes with the other information I have.

  270. 270
    lgerard says:

    More family vales from Alaska’s first family

    The elder son of former Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin was in jail on Sunday facing assault and burglary charges in her home state of Alaska.

  271. 271
    Another Scott says:


    Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed said Sunday night that a fire led to a power outage earlier in the day that stranded thousands of passengers at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport, but the cause of the fire is still unknown.

    The fire in an underground tunnel knocked out the main power source and the airport’s backup system, Reed said in a press conference. The strength of the fire forced Georgia Power, the city’s utility company, to wait before it could begin fixing the issue, he said.

    Georgia Power said earlier Sunday it expected to restore electricity to the airport by mdnight, which Reed reiterated.

    There is no evidence that the fire was caused deliberately, but the cause is still under investigation, the mayor said.



    My workplace lost power for 90 minutes yesterday. Not a good thing…

    Of course, record corporate profits mean that corporate taxes have to be cut and social insurance must be cut also too, so loss of electric power to important infrastructure probably means that the national parks need to be sold off, or something.



  272. 272
  273. 273
    germy says:

    Ooh wee! This is CVS-level receipts….they just keep coming!— Summer L Williams (@SummerLWC1) December 17, 2017

  274. 274
    Ruckus says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):

    It’s almost as if there’s an agenda there.

    OK just so you know that was snark. This guy is beating a dead horse. And has been for hours. Which really doesn’t help his cause in the least. He sounds like he’s trying to find a ray of sunshine in a racist sandwich.

  275. 275
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @germy: he’s an obnoxious, would-be intellectual purity leftist who hates liberals (and Democrats) more than anyone, because they are compromised corporatists, etc. Demos cut their ties with him after he got in a nasty twitter fight with Joan Walsh and Neera Tanden. I said earlier that he had quasi-doxed Joan Walsh, I got that wrong. It was his twitter followers who did that. He and his wife (who I believe is a Xian Socialist who now writes for the NYT) seem to be the mascots of the slightly older Journalist/Vox crowd

  276. 276


    He sounds like he’s trying to find a ray of sunshine in a racist sandwich.

    That’s a very strange way to interpret ranting about pie.

  277. 277
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @geg6: I caught Harvey on cable last week, I’d forgotten how much I love that movie.

  278. 278
    Fair Economist says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I have been slammed for my pronouncing pin and pen the same. Who called you a non-native?

    ??? That’s a very common variant of English pronunciation.

  279. 279
    germy says:


    The elder son of former Republican vice presidential nominee was in jail on Sunday facing assault and burglary charges in her home state of Alaska.


    Meanwhile, both Obama daughters are doing great in school.

  280. 280
  281. 281
    SFAW says:


    One is saccharine and treacly

    Just because Ralph gets his Red Ryder gun in the end? Or was it something else?

    Because, unlike A Christmas Story, It’s A Wonderful Life was pretty dark for a good portion of the film, both in the “real” world and in the “George-free” world. Yeah, there are some sappy parts, but they’re not the main point of the story.

  282. 282
    Brachiator says:

    RE. ..Coates responds to West.

    Interesting to see discussion of this pop up here. I read the West piece earlier in the Guardian, but had too much other stuff to do today to check out reactions.

    I don’t entirely agree with Coates, but I gave up on West a long time ago. I can see why he sees Bernie Sanders as a solution.

  283. 283
    Corner Stone says:

    @Fair Economist: Don’t get the pedants started. They are like an eternal motion machine.

  284. 284
    germy says:

    @Brachiator: I thought West was in Jill Stein territory.

    What angered me was his misinterpretation of TC’s book.

  285. 285
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    I wish the pie filter worked for me anymore. It’s broken and I’m crying a river over it.
    He’s trying to make dinner out of a shit sandwich.
    I’ve got lots of them but those are probably the best of a lot of bad choices.

  286. 286
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Corner Stone: Perpetual, not eternal.*

    *Kudos, as I assume you did it intentionally.

  287. 287
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @germy: I blame the lack of prayer in school, also too, video games.

  288. 288
    germy says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: She blamed PTSD, which was an insult to all real sufferers who actually… saw military action.

  289. 289
    SFAW says:


    Its only December and I tired of winter.

    OK, now THAT is scary. Not because you feel that way, but because I said the same thing to a client the other day. First time I’ve thought that before February. I chalked it up to my being an old fart. But I’m pretty sure you’re not old, so maybe it’s some other cause/catalyst.

  290. 290
    SFAW says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Perpetual, not eternal.*

    *Kudos, as I assume you did it intentionally.

    Yeah, I almost bit on that one.

  291. 291
    Steeplejack (phone) says:


    I, too, like A Christmas Story. I will add that the book it is based on, Shepherd’s Wanda Hickey’s Night of Golden Memories and Other Disasters, is a small comic masterpiece of mid-century Americana.

  292. 292
    SFAW says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    I blame the lack of prayer in school, also too, video games.

    Not Obama or Hillary? WTF?

  293. 293
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): I will add that I also like the film.

  294. 294

    @SFAW: It has been so cold and overcast, most of the week. Do not want.

  295. 295
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @SFAW: also too, teh gay for ruining the sanctity of marriage and the NFL for not supporting our troops.

    also, also too: taco trucks on every street corner.

  296. 296
    SFAW says:


    What angered me was his misinterpretation of TC’s book.

    Which is easy to do if one does nothing more than read the title.

    Reminded me of an old SNL sketch: “I heard that was good”: Someone not unlike Leonard Pinth-Garnell reviewing movies he hadn’t seen, and his review was “I heard that was good.”

    West started raking TNC over the coals without having read even the first fucking page of the book. One wonders whether he should be considered a moron, or just an asshole. Since he’s fairly intelligent, despite some of his head-up-the-ass positions, I’ll go with “asshole.”

  297. 297
    SFAW says:


    It has been so cold and overcast, most of the week. Do not want.

    I hear ya, kid.

  298. 298
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SFAW: I am waiting for proper winter to arrive here. Want.

  299. 299
    burnspbesq says:


    Pretty much every explanation of the outcome of any election is oversimplified, and Smith’s is no exception.

  300. 300
    SFAW says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I am waiting for proper winter to arrive here.

    Earlier this week, it was so cold, I saw a chicken running up the street with a cape on.

  301. 301
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SFAW: You saw Super Chicken?

  302. 302
    Ruckus says:

    PTSD is not suffered just by combat vets. Or even just vets. Combat is an easy way to get it, yes, But not the only way.

  303. 303
    Corner Stone says:

    @SFAW: Not all hero chickens wear capes.

  304. 304
    Gravenstone says:

    @germy: What fucking planet is that moron from? Sure as shit it isn’t this one.

  305. 305
    Brachiator says:

    nothing troubles the lib mind more than when you tell them that women and people of color make up the majority of the republican party, even though it’s so obviously and demonstrably true— Matt Bruenig

    This might be true. Wouldn’t surprise me. White women make up a larger share of GOP voters than white men.

    Oddly enough, this still translates into more white guys over 50 from the GOP in Congress. Makes you wonder why women have not taken over.

  306. 306
    SFAW says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Not all hero chickens wear capes.

    I have no idea what you’re talking about. Must be my upbringing.

  307. 307
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    *Kudos, as I assume you did it intentionally.

    Likewise, and prefer it to the original; stealing it.

  308. 308
    Corner Stone says:

    @SFAW: Got it, boss. Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. Me either, eh?

  309. 309
    SFAW says:


    This might be true. Wouldn’t surprise me. White women make up a larger share of GOP voters than white men.

    It’s not unlike the answer to an old baseball trivia question. (“Old,” because the Niekro brothers passed them.)

    To wit: Which two pitchers, who were also brothers, had the most combined wins?

  310. 310
    Kirk says:

    @germy: What Ruckus said.

    To help, here’s the definition of PTSD. Just so you know, PTSD is kind of common among rape and sexual assault victims, just to give one example


    PTSD and DSM-5
    In 2013, the American Psychiatric Association revised the PTSD diagnostic criteria in the fifth edition of its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5; 1). PTSD is included in a new category in DSM-5, Trauma- and Stressor-Related Disorders. All of the conditions included in this classification require exposure to a traumatic or stressful event as a diagnostic criterion. For a review of the DSM-5 changes to the criteria for PTSD, see the American Psychiatric Association website on Posttraumatic Stress Disorder.
    DSM-5 Criteria for PTSD
    Full copyrighted criteria are available from the American Psychiatric Association (1). All of the criteria are required for the diagnosis of PTSD. The following text summarizes the diagnostic criteria:
    Criterion A (one required): The person was exposed to: death, threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or actual or threatened sexual violence, in the following way(s):
    Direct exposure
    Witnessing the trauma
    Learning that a relative or close friend was exposed to a trauma
    Indirect exposure to aversive details of the trauma, usually in the course of professional duties (e.g., first responders, medics)
    Criterion B (one required): The traumatic event is persistently re-experienced, in the following way(s):
    Intrusive thoughts
    Emotional distress after exposure to traumatic reminders
    Physical reactivity after exposure to traumatic reminders
    Criterion C (one required): Avoidance of trauma-related stimuli after the trauma, in the following way(s):
    Trauma-related thoughts or feelings
    Trauma-related reminders
    Criterion D (two required): Negative thoughts or feelings that began or worsened after the trauma, in the following way(s):
    Inability to recall key features of the trauma
    Overly negative thoughts and assumptions about oneself or the world
    Exaggerated blame of self or others for causing the trauma
    Negative affect
    Decreased interest in activities
    Feeling isolated
    Difficulty experiencing positive affect
    Criterion E (two required): Trauma-related arousal and reactivity that began or worsened after the trauma, in the following way(s):
    Irritability or aggression
    Risky or destructive behavior
    Heightened startle reaction
    Difficulty concentrating
    Difficulty sleeping
    Criterion F (required): Symptoms last for more than 1 month.
    Criterion G (required): Symptoms create distress or functional impairment (e.g., social, occupational).
    Criterion H (required): Symptoms are not due to medication, substance use, or other illness.
    Two specifications:
    Dissociative Specification. In addition to meeting criteria for diagnosis, an individual experiences high levels of either of the following in reaction to trauma-related stimuli:
    Depersonalization. Experience of being an outside observer of or detached from oneself (e.g., feeling as if “this is not happening to me” or one were in a dream).
    Derealization. Experience of unreality, distance, or distortion (e.g., “things are not real”).
    Delayed Specification. Full diagnostic criteria are not met until at least six months after the trauma(s), although onset of symptoms may occur immediately.

  311. 311
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Kirk: Jesus, with the link, why copy pasta everything?

  312. 312
    Brachiator says:


    RE. I thought West was in Jill Stein territory. Not much difference.

    ETA. Having weird issues with my phone. The Quote tool bar has disappeared.

  313. 313
    satby says:

    In the contest between A Christmas Story and It’s a Wonderful Life, I’m so firmly in the Life camp that I have never even watched the other movie. My friend did drag me to the Indiana Welcome Center in Hammond, IN two weeks ago to see the exhibit based on the Macy’s Christmas window displays though. That’s as close as I ever expect to get to seeing the movie.

  314. 314
    Kirk says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: ’cause I sometimes get kind of anal?

    mea culpa.

  315. 315
    SFAW says:


    In the context between A Christmas Story and It’s a Wonderful Life, I’m so firmly in the Life camp that I have never even watched the other movie.

    It doesn’t have to be an either/or proposition. Like you, I prefer It’s A Wonderful Life, but I also used to listen to Jean Shepherd from time to time, and he was a great storyteller. And he told stories every night, I believe — although they were not usually the “OK, kids, here’s another story” type of thing.

  316. 316
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Silverman does the same thing. It feels like “This is so important you must read it.”

  317. 317
    J R in WV says:

    Regarding the situation in Atlanta, at Hartsfield Jackson Airfield! I had a bad time there back in the spring when I attempted to travel from WV to AZ on business. I wrote about my experience in detail, and saved it as a text file, which I paste here, because no one there is equipped to tell us about their story right now.

    Bad time flying!

    Thursday I was supposed to fly from CRW->Atlanta->Tucson. First flight at 6:25 am, and I am not an early-byrd at all. Got there on time, small crowd, because they called people at home to let everyone know this flight was canceled! M says they called 5-10 minutes after I left home.

    9:00 am flight to ATL also canceled – should have taken heed of these warnings, but took a full 11:00 am flight into Hartsfield airport in Atlanta… long time on tarmac, gate skybridge didn’t work, finally debark into a kicked over beehive of congestion and pointless activity.

    Evidently many flights were being canceled, large volume of people not going to arrive on schedule, many of whom had appointments that afternoon at their destination. I was a day ahead of my appointment, foolishly thought I would be OK.

    Note that all gate numbers are approximate, who could remember that after 36 hours w/o sleep?

    My flight number was NOT on the big board of all departures, third big hint. Had to wait in line to ask a gate attendent where to go for flight 59xx to Tucson… B-59, I was at D-27.. so into the subway.

    B-59 there were no empty chairs, B-concourse chairs are hard plastic, pebbled surface, seems impossible to wipe clean, ever… this is because they never do so. Board at gate indicates some other flight, not to Tucson, 50 people in line to the single young professional gate attendant, so I wait for the line to wind down a little… not to happen.

    Young, calm professional gate attendant occasionally announces a flight is cancelled, or delayed, or moved to another gate. Finally I see the flight to Tucson on the gate board, the line is shorter, only a dozen or so, so I jump up from the seat I finally got after a gate-change announcement.

    I show her my flight document, not a boarding pass, just a slip with the flight number and a “check in required” on it. She seems surprised a little, says “Tucson?” I point at her big video board which still says Tucson, she says “OK” and gives me a boarding pass for a flight departing in a couple of hours, upgraded to First Class!! No so bad.

    After about an hour they delay the flight by 4 hours, until 7. I have a good book, so no big deal. I go get lunch. When I get back our flight was no longer on the board. I get in line to check it. The lady in front of me wanted to get to Nashville, flying from Richmond.

    She was a little upset, but I hadn’t seen anything yet. She tells Gate person “I was going to a function in Nashville that is now about to end, and would like a boarding pass to a flight back to Richmond, please!” Gate lady is sympathetic, tells Richmond lady to go to rebooking desk for a new boarding pass. [At this time I didn’t know that meant standing in line for at least 6 hours to get reticketed!]

    Moved to new gate, a small crowd of us depart from B-39 to B-14 for our increasingly dubious-looking flight to Arizona. I’m still reading my good book, and have picked up a couple more paperbacks in the increasingly likely case that I will be here longer than I guessed. “New York 2140” by Kin Stanley Robinson is a big thick hardback, and complex enough I have to pay attention to the details.

    After chatting with the elderly lady next to me about why her Android device doesn’t connect to Wi-fi, and showing her settings-> Wi-fi, which she navigates unerringly, she is grateful to have the Internet to keep her occupied. Then she fires up a game, too. It’s evening now, so I pack up and go to the middle of the concourse to search out the best sit-down meal.

    I get a small table by the windows, and can see jetliners taking off and landing – big problem is that arrivals seem to out-pace departures by about 2 to 1. Dinner is OK, not the best airport meal I’ve ever had, not the worst, certainly better than the free pretzels the Delta people hand out from time to time.

    I get back to B-13, and nothing has changed in the hour I was gone. I sit in a different place, and notice that one aisle between a set of seats is piled high with carry-on luggage and sports equipment. Someone tells me a team was there, and put it all there to go to eat.

    I’m with a group of Tuscon residents who want to get home, an engineer, a PR guy and his wife reading a Bill O’Reilly novel called “Who Killed Patton” supposed factual history, as if BO’R would know history if it smacked him on the ass. We chat, mostly about airline trips good and bad.

    The already delayed 9:27 pm flight (all times approximate, I didn’t write them down) is re-re-delayed til 12:47, and the gate person keeps informing us that this one flight has equipment – a plane – but no crew, and the other flight has some crew, but is missing a first officer, or some other vital crew member.

    Comes 12:30 and a young guy next to us holds up his smart phone, and shouts “They’ve cancelled it, they’ve cancelled our flight!” as if he was shocked, shocked!!

    Now I spend from 1am til 7am in a line of thousands of travelers who need new tix to wherever they now need to go. The PR executive is talking about a flight he sees in the smartphone to Tucson via Minneapolis, and the GE engineer is talking about getting a flight into Phoenix and either getting a rental car or a shuttle flight to Tucson. The standard multiple flights daily to Tucson seem to be banished to Hell…

    I’m feeling bad, and so I ask for a boarding pass to the flight to CRW on the big board, departing at 9:47, back to my origination 27 hours ago! I ask about my bag checked to Tucson, and the professional and patient woman clicks away at her terminal, and tells me the suitcase is in the terminal, not on board an aircraft due to depart for Tucson (for will there ever be an airliner departing for Tucson here? Nope!) and they will be able to put it on a plane to Charleston. Just not the flight I’m taking.

    Now I have slept about 17 hours, a long 5 hour nap after M picked me up at the airport, then a good night’s sleep. The phone woke me about 9am, and it’s a guy who delivers suitcases for Delta. He has delivered my suitcase, and I’m drinking coffee, admiring the blue spring sky and having a Trail Mix Cookie from our favorite bakery. My suitcase did contain my pistol, legally checked, and my laptop still functioning well.

    I survived the utter failure of Delta’s main hub. and the pain of standing for 7 hours on marble has faded away. Will I ever get to the Southwest? maybe so. I hope so. Really poor management to be so unable to recover from what has to be a common airline problem, summer thunderstorm delays.

    Whoever is in charge of crisis management for Delta should be fired and hung out to dry in public for incompetence. They have obviously cut staff past the ability to compensate for unexpected events of any kind. Horrible!!!!!!!!

    The airport itself is a good one, well built, organized, all that. The main airline, not so much. Maybe they will react to this power outage today better than they did the weather situation/time on duty issues the weather caused last spring. Good luck, all!

    Additionally, my flight back to WV from Atlanta was full. The Rifle Team from WVU had a couple of members on board, just after winning their Nth NCAA championship, the most of any NCAA school, including the military academies. A proud moment to see them wearing their championship jackets. But at the luggage depot, their 5 figure rifles, all of which were checked with the team members on my flight, were not there!! Oops! They all turned up eventually, it would have been huge news if they hadn’t. But imagine the feeling of having just won a national championship, and your tools didn’t show up at your destination !!

  318. 318
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @satby: How can you make a judgment if you have never seen the other one?

  319. 319
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @J R in WV: TL; DR.

  320. 320
    SFAW says:

    @J R in WV:

    Wow, Война и Mир in English!

    Good story.

  321. 321
    Mnemosyne says:


    Meh. They’re such different movies that there’s room for both.

  322. 322
    Ruckus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    You going full Italian tonight?

  323. 323
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Ruckus: Italian?

  324. 324
    WaterGirl says:

    @lamh36: What did Cory Booker speak out about?

  325. 325
    Ruckus says:

    @J R in WV:
    Your story had a longer timeline than mine but mine was fun as well.
    When I lived in Columbus and for all intents flew for a living, I had 2 choices to get anywhere. Through Atlanta or Chicago. The attendants on the 8 am flight to Atlanta knew me on sight. I made the mistake of taking Delta up on the offer of a hotel one evening.By the time we got assigned a hotel, the bus arrived and drove us across town, it was 4am. Six hrs to get to the hotel after they canceled the flight. Had to be up at 5am to get back on the bus to make the flight they booked me on, which of course was late. Every time after than I just laid down on the floor and went to sleep. And it happened a few times. And it was better than the hotel. My second Atlanta story happened on the morning of 9/11. 2001. On that 8am flight. That was also a fun day and will wait till another time.

  326. 326
    Ruckus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Read your comment to Kirk.

  327. 327
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Ruckus: Copy pasta is common usage.

  328. 328
    Ruckus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Really? Never noticed it before. Whatever you say, you are the expert.

  329. 329
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Ruckus: If you want me to be fighty, you lose. I’ve seen it before, and I used it tonight. If it offends you, I am sorry. I am a bad person or something.

  330. 330
    chopper says:


    it’s the women in “women and POC” that’s making that majority. might as well say “women and salvadorans” or “women and left-handed clowns”.

  331. 331
    J R in WV says:


    I despise “It’s a Wonderful Life” AND “A Christmas Story” AND all the other terrible awful holiday treacle stories on film/video. Would rather watch cage matches, whatever those are. Or war movies? no, not that bad. But xmas movies are universally terrible!

    Just me, you be you and enjoy what you enjoy. I have given up on xmas.

  332. 332
    B.B.A. says:

    @J R in WV: Die Hard tho.

  333. 333
    Ruckus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Fighty? Why would I be fighty? You obviously know far more than I do and besides it isn’t worth my time. And my time isn’t worth shit.

  334. 334
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @J R in WV: And feel free to fuck off and let people who enjoy the holiday to do it.

  335. 335
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Ruckus: Then don’t be an asshole. Or did I read you wrong?

  336. 336
    SFAW says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Or did I read you wrong?

    I think so. I didn’t get a ball-busting vibe from his original comment, and you know how I can be at times.

    ETA: And I, like Ruckus, was unfamiliar with the “pasta” thing. Apparently I am not aware of all Internet traditions, after all.

  337. 337
    Steeplejack (phone) says:


    I thought #327 was a little . . . something. “Whatever you say, you are the expert.” Unnecessary. IMO FWIW.

  338. 338
    TenguPhule says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Is there a dumber place to use for a hideout than the ice planet Hoth?

    Yes. A salt planet with only one exit.

  339. 339
    Tehanu says:

    @mai naem mobile:

    I can’t believe she’s been in this country for so long and has such a string accent and can’t even speak English properly.

    I see that Wapiti and some others have already weighed in on this. Whether or not an immigrant speaks with an accent has nothing to do with how long they’ve been here or how smart they are. My grandmother came at age 12 speaking Yiddish and she always had an accent; Henry Kissinger, who btw I hold no brief for, was even younger when he arrived and he still speaks like he just got off the boat; I had a Filipino immigrant employee once, a really first-class technical writer — frankly, his written English was better than mine, and mine is damn good — but we could hardly understand a word he said. Some people have a gift for languages and some don’t, that’s all. I hold no brief for Melania either, but her having an accent is not a reason to criticize her intelligence.

  340. 340
    Westyny says:

    @wmd: it was less than 21,000. I don’t know where you got that extra 100K.

  341. 341
    SFAW says:

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    That’s one of the problems with not being able to impart tone-of-voice into a text-type message.

  342. 342
    joel hanes says:


    I like A Christmas Story

    I too. Lots. I understand the criticisms, but it always seems to me that the critics are busy looking at the wrong things, and miss what makes it good.

    But I’m a sentimental fool, so there’s that.

  343. 343
    Mnemosyne says:


    Good catch. I missed that inflated claim.

  344. 344
    joel hanes says:


    It makes me gag, it’s so cliched.

    You know the one about the two British matrons who go together to see Hamlet for the first time ?

    “Well: how did you like the play?”

    “Oh, my dear, it was wonderfully acted, and of course very dramatic.
    But so full of cliches!”

  345. 345
    NotMax says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Um, that was Broderick Crawford.

    Later in his career, starred in the TV show Highway Patrol, which always ended with a pithy tidbit.

    One remembered lo these many decades later was “After an accident, it doesn’t matter who’s right, only who’s left.”

  346. 346
    Citizen Alan says:


    It’s a Wonderful Life borders on triggering with me. As in I will not remain in a house if someone insists on watching it. To me, it s the story of a guy who continually foregoes every opportunity to go out into the world and make something of himself on his own terms because his family continually guilt-trips him into sacrificing his own dreams to stay in a little hick town and clean up their messes. As someone who is 48 years old and still living in a rural Mississippi because of decades of guilt trips from my parents and older sister, I literally cannot watch that movie without suffering an anxiety attack.

  347. 347
    satby says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I don’t think I’m actually making a judgement about the value of the movie so much as saying what I have glimpsed of it doesn’t interest me. No one has to agree with me; I’m not all that interested in the never ending Star Wars episodes either.

Comments are closed.