Monday Afternoon Open Thread

Here’s a local osprey surveying a pond from a platform built by the power company. The power company builds these things so ospreys won’t nest on the light poles and screw up power transmission.

Looks like I’ll be taking a short road trip later today to go see my grandmother. She’s almost 100 and has pneumonia, poor old bird. The prognosis is not good, but she may surprise us yet.

Anyhoo, keep an old lady in your thoughts, if you would. Open thread!






262 replies
  1. 1
    Just the Facts says:

    Following three other senators, Gillibrand just called for Trump to resign because of his sexual harassment/abuse. And it’s the lead story on CNN.

    Politically, it’s almost like Gillibrand is playing 3-D chess.

    Bonus: She’s right on the issue, too.

  2. 2
    lamh36 says:

    But wait if they claiming nothing happened then how can they provide witnesses if none of these instances took place?

    WH spox Sanders said they would provide a list of eyewitnesses refuting Trump’s accusers after briefing today
    https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/940309762050347008

  3. 3
    dp says:

    Best wishes to your grandmother, Betty.

  4. 4
    lamh36 says:

    To be quite honest, i thought this guy was gay…and I am shocked it wasn’t Flay, but apparently Flay is just a serial cheater and not an abuser/harasser

    Chef Mario Batali has left ABC’s #TheChew due to sexual harassment allegations bit.ly/2z1GPyo

  5. 5

    Open thread? I saw a happy thing in B&N today. I was in the café, writing, and a little kid dropped his newly bought hot chocolate. He was so distressed. The mom apologized to the barista for the mess, and the barista said not to worry, made new hot chocolate, didn’t charge them, and offered the kid sprinkles. In the meantime, another worker hurried out and cleaned up the mess. They saved a little kid’s day. The Waterloo IA B&N workers are the best.

  6. 6
    TriassicSands says:

    Betty, best wishes for you grandmother — 100 — scary thought. Pneumonia sucks.

  7. 7
    WaterGIrl says:

    The power company builds these things so ospreys won’t nest on the light poles and screw up power transmission.

    For real?

    Sorry about your granny. Sometimes they surprise you. Sending good thoughts. Is this your dad’s mom or your mom’s mom?

  8. 8
    Yarrow says:

    Best wishes to your grandmother, Betty. Pneumonia is so dangerous but people can and do recover. Sending good thoughts your way.

    Just caught a few minutes of CNN. Wow, are they upset at this press conference. Essentially saying the President and administration want to shut down the press. They’re really angry. Funny how angry they are when it hits home to them.

  9. 9
  10. 10
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Just the Facts: Ah, the other shoe dropping. Looks like Gillibrand knows exactly what she’s doing here.

  11. 11
    trollhattan says:

    @lamh36:
    Trump’s overinflated ego could conceivably have himself videoed at all times for posterity but such a Nixonlike trove would never fall into our laps twice. That’s the only way his many misdeeds could be refulted.

    “I was with Donald that time he didn’t grab anybody’s crotch” ain’t too convincing.

    Best wishes to grandma, Betty!

  12. 12
    WaterGIrl says:

    @lamh36: Same as when I worked for the local rape crisis service. If you were on call when the original call came in, you stayed with the client all the way through the legal and/or medical system and beyond, if they wanted you to.

    For more than one trial, this was the defense: I didn’t do it, but if I did do it, it was consensual. It boggles the mind, but that was actually a legal defense. Sounds like Trump is just singing the song of other rapists who have come before him.

  13. 13
    cope says:

    I hope you meemaw mends soon. Pneumonia is nothing to mess with.

    Ospreys were my favorite bird to photograph until I discovered roseate spoonbills.

  14. 14
    WaterGIrl says:

    @trollhattan:

    “I was with Donald that time he didn’t grab anybody’s crotch”

    Sounds just like Huckabee Sanders – think about all the girls Roy Moore didn’t molest!

  15. 15
    trollhattan says:

    @lamh36:
    It was the Crocs, wasn’t it? ;-)

  16. 16
    TenguPhule says:

    @Just the Facts:

    Following three other senators, Gillibrand just called for Trump to resign because of his sexual harassment/abuse. And it’s the lead story on CNN.

    Politically, it’s almost like Gillibrand is playing 3-D chess.

    Against a Pigeon. Who will proceed to poop on her pieces.

  17. 17
    Kristine says:

    Good thoughts for your Gran, Betty.

    I’ve heard there are ospreys around here–far NE IL–but have yet to see one. Hope my luck gets better.

  18. 18
    germy says:

    @lamh36:

    But wait if they claiming nothing happened then how can they provide witnesses if none of these instances took place?

    Well, they found one guy: Anthony Gilberthorpe.

    Anthony says he witnessed a woman who sat next to drumpf on a flight. He says she was the aggressor, not drumpf.

    He claims to have a photograph memory.

    What a dilemma for me! Who to believe??

  19. 19
    Mike in DC says:

    So, the viral video bullying kid, Keaton. Just heard his mom is racist, then the Root just updated/corrected their story. So is she still racist, or nah?

  20. 20
    Betty Cracker says:

    @WaterGIrl: They really do! I guess it’s cheaper than dealing with the mess ospreys make of the power lines. They build humongous nests.

    Ospreys are about as common as pigeons where I live, but this weekend, as I was driving out in the country, I saw a bald eagle on the ground; it was getting a grip on some prey to fly off with it. I’d forgotten how HUGE they are! Wish I hadn’t been driving and had my camera ready — would’ve been a great shot.

    The ailing grandma is my mom’s mother. I’ve been lucky to have had grandmothers in my life for so long. My dad’s mom passed a way a couple of years back. She was in her 80s and smoked like a chimney almost all her life. My maternal grandmother never drank or smoked; she is a very devout Christian and was formerly a preacher’s wife and missionary. She was extraordinarily healthy for a very old lady until my mom died a few years back. She sort of gave up on life after that.

  21. 21
    Elie says:

    Wishing you and your Granny the best — whatever outcome that is. Its all so precious — these special relationships and the limits of our corporeal bodies — I hope you are both able to enjoy your time together — whatever that is….

  22. 22
    Mnemosyne says:

    @lamh36:

    I was going to be very sad if it was Flay because, although he’s a giant raging asshole, he’s also the only chef on that channel who consistently uses women sous chefs. All of the other guys only use guys. So Flay may be an asshole, but at least he’s not 100 percent a dick. 😂

  23. 23
    Ruckus says:

    She’s 100, then she’s surprised you on more than one occasion. Hoping she does it again.
    @TriassicSands:

    Pneumonia sucks.

    I’ve heard that said many times.

  24. 24
    The Moar You Know says:

    but apparently Flay is just a serial cheater and not an abuser/harasser

    @lamh36: Distinction without a whole lot of difference. Cheating can be pretty damn abusive, if its public and thrown in the spouse’s face. Bourdain falls square into this category.

    It was the Crocs, wasn’t it? ;-)

    @trollhattan: That’s a fuckin’ war crime, right there.

  25. 25
    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et Al.) says:

    I hope your grandmother pulls through. My own mother died a year ago today. I don’t really know why these days are worse than others. As a strictly factual thing they aren’t any worse than any other day, but they are somehow.

  26. 26
    wenchacha says:

    Hoping your grandmother recovers, Betty.

  27. 27
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’ll send healing thoughts for your grandma, Betty. I remember seeing those osprey platforms as we were driving from Ft Myers to Orlando and having to ask my brother what they heck they were. Apparently eagles will use them as well.

  28. 28
    WaterGIrl says:

    @Betty Cracker: So smart of the power companies! Who would have thunk it?

    I was afraid this would be your mom’s mom, I am guessing that makes it harder after the loss of your mom. Your mom was cool and interesting beyond belief, so I imagine this granny is a force of nature. Hoping for whatever is best for you and your gram. Hugs.

  29. 29
    Kraux Pas says:

    I’d like to make an appeal to the Balloon Juice Brain Trust. I’m working on a concept for a story, something of a jungle/safari adventure, likely to take the form of a comic book.

    So I’m trying to think of some older stories of this nature I could watch or read to research potential story lines, character archetypes, and tropes. I’m coming up short, though, and was hoping for someone to point me in the right direction.

  30. 30
    Ruckus says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Would he have been using the women as more targets?
    Not suggesting that he was, just asking. Some assholes would be like that. Like the guy who sponsored beauty pageants and then went behind stage or in the dressing rooms to grab stuff. I mean he had paid for it, right?

  31. 31
    germy says:

    I keep wondering who’s next.

    Geraldo Rivera?

    Alec Baldwin?

    One (or both) of the doofs from Fox and Friends ?

    George Stephanopoulos?

  32. 32
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et Al.):

    This year will be Year 5 for both my husband and me losing our fathers — they died within six months of each other. We each get a little extra shot of grief a couple of weeks before the actual day because we’re remembering the run-up and the cascade of bad news. 😢

  33. 33
    Kathleen says:

    Prayers for your grandmother Betty. The older I get (and I’m a meemaw myself) the more I cherish these connections with those I love

  34. 34

    Hope your granny starts feeling better soon. Is she the one whose remote you programmed?

  35. 35
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Mnemosyne: There are some areas where bald eagles and ospreys use the same nests at different times of the year–they have different migration patterns.

  36. 36
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ruckus:

    That’s what I would be afraid of, because it would make male chefs even more reluctant to hire women. So hopefully Flay is just a cheating asshole and not a harassing one.

  37. 37
    localcomment says:

    The power company builds the platforms so that the osprey’s don’t stand with one foot on the pole and one on the line – frying the bird and blowing the transformer. Its good PR but they are doing it because it costs them more money to fix the shorts than to build the platform and not because utility companies are interested in raptor conservation.

  38. 38
    Ruckus says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et Al.):
    When all you have left are memories, the bad ones rear their ugly heads.
    Sorry about your mom.

  39. 39
    WaterGIrl says:

    @trollhattan: I used to work for a guy who wore socks with his berkenstocks. That would be way worse, I would think. But then neither of them particularly bothers me.

    I found a cartoon that showed some guy who was wearing socks with Berkenstocks, standing at the pearly gates, and St. Peter is turning him away because he wore socks with his Berkenstocks. Brought it to work and not surprisingly, I found the cartoon funnier than my boss did.

  40. 40
    NeenerNeener says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    but apparently Flay is just a serial cheater and not an abuser/harasser

    @lamh36: Distinction without a whole lot of difference. Cheating can be pretty damn abusive, if its public and thrown in the spouse’s face. Bourdain falls square into this category.

    As does Gordon Ramsay, if I remember correctly.

  41. 41
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    King Solomon’s Mines, The Naked Jungle, Sanders of the River.

    And She

  42. 42
    gvg says:

    the power lines along I-4 from Orlando to Disney have those platforms and the last time I went that way almost everyone seemed to have an eagle pair. I first saw big bird nesting platforms as a child on my parents dream Europe trip. In the Netherlands they put up old wooden wagon wheels on poles and on barn roofs for the storks to nest on. I tried to google it just now and apparently the power companies in other countries are doing the platforms on power lines now. Portugal, Germany and France. Also some eastern Europe countries have stork watching tourism. Around Orlando, the power lines parallel the interstate so if you aren’t driving, you get to see a lot of eagles and it breaks up the monotony.

  43. 43
    WaterGIrl says:

    deleting that comment because I worried that it came off wrong.

  44. 44
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Just the Facts: Oh, nice of her to get around to noticing that the Republicans actually have a REAL problem with sexual harrassment and assualt.

    She’s an opportunist who thinks that white women are going to vote for her because of her principled stands. Boy, will she have a surprise coming.

    And I’ll be laughing my ass off when it does.

  45. 45
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    Be very, very careful. Most of those old jungle movies have extremely nasty stereotypes in them. Make close notes of what stereotypes show up and how you plan to reverse or subvert them.

    You can start with the Tarzan movies — the first two with Johnny Weissmuller and Maureen O’Sullivan are the most fun because they get to run around half-naked in the jungle, but the stereotypes are still cringe-worthy. The censors made them cover up a lot more once the Production code came in.

  46. 46
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    I’ll vote for her against any Repub. Sorry, I’ll vote for any Democrat against any Republican now.

  47. 47
    Chet says:

    Just left Port Authority Bus terminal on my way home. All is well.

    Funny thing is, I realized once I got there on the subway that I had assumed it would be. I left work at the same old time, got to the terminal at the same old time, got on the bus at the same old time. The only lingering inconvenience is that some of the underground passageways are shut down, so if you want to transfer at Times Square you have to get above ground and walk.

  48. 48
    prufrock says:

    @Betty Cracker: There is a bald eagle that hangs out by the lake at my sister’s house in Palm Harbor. Watching that thing is a lot like living out the “Okay America, inspire me!” scene from The Simpsons where Lisa writes a patriotic essay.

    It’s an effective, if temporary antidote to Trump’s Twitter.

  49. 49
    Miss Bianca says:

    Best wishes for you and your grandma, Betty.

  50. 50
    Schlemazel says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    maybe that is just so he can grab their ass while they work? Sorry, but all those guys impress me as asshole so it wouldn’t surprise me at all, Flay is right down there. I was surprised it was Mario.

    My daughter cooks professionally. I tried to talk her out of it because I know how hard it is for women in the kitchen. SHe has had issues but not of the snatch & grab kind. I think it would cost my daughter her best knife & the guy his hand.

  51. 51
    WaterGIrl says:

    @Miss Bianca: She is definitely coming off as an opportunist, and it’s not a good look.

  52. 52
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    All best wishes to your grandmother, Betty.

  53. 53
    WaterGIrl says:

    @zhena gogolia: I’m assuming Miss Bianca is talking about the primaries.

  54. 54
    PJ says:

    @Matt McIrvin: If she knew what she was doing, she would’ve been the first senator to call for Trump’s resignation (as she was with Franken), rather than the fourth. I bet she’s kicking herself now.

  55. 55
    Mnemosyne says:

    @WaterGIrl:

    Believe me, it seems both very distant and like it happened just yesterday. But, yeah, it’ll be 5 years in January. He held out until after the first of the year because he loved Christmas and hated the IRS, so he didn’t want to stick us with a tax mess at the very end of the year. And I’m not joking about that (or, more precisely, I’m kidding on the square).

  56. 56
    Fair Economist says:

    Best wishes for your grandmother, Betty.

  57. 57
    WaterGIrl says:

    @Schlemazel: I think most chefs come off as pretty arrogant. Happily, you can be arrogant without sexually harassing and assaulting women. I’m not going to assume that because someone is an arrogant ass that they are hurting women.

  58. 58
    Miss Bianca says:

    @zhena gogolia: She won’t be the nominee. Or if she is, there will be Republican ratfuckery that will cause white peoples’ heads to explode. Then with “sorrow and regret” her colleagues will abandon her.

    Because, Democrats. That’s how we roll.

  59. 59
    Schlemazel says:

    Betty – hope your gram gets whatever she wants. FOr you I am sending best wishes and all the positive thoughts I can generate. Good luck.

    There was an osprey nest on the light standard of a local high school for more than a decade & then it disappeared. Nobody seems to know what happened but I don’t think those things just disappear. We saw a bald eagle this morning. That is not unusual for us as we live between 2 lakes but this was the biggest damn bird I have ever seen. baldies get big & the can be very scary up close, this lady was a monster even by their standards. I consider them good luck (our native friends told us it is a blessing) so I hope this one can carry my burden of prayers to the heavens.

  60. 60
    Kraux Pas says:

    @zhena gogolia: Thank you, that is incredibly helpful. Actually, the one name I was able to come up with on my own was Allan Quartermain, but I didn’t know any of the books. I’m certain to look into all of those and am particularly excited for “She.”

    @Mnemosyne:

    Be very, very careful. Most of those old jungle movies have extremely nasty stereotypes in them. Make close notes of what stereotypes show up and how you plan to reverse or subvert them.

    I figured as much and am sure to be conscious of this. Actually, there is one major trope inversion I had in mind that was essentially my inspiration for this project.

    ETA: I will check out these Tarzan movies also, though the set-up I had in mind was more Dr. Livingstone than Tarzan/Jungle Book.

  61. 61
    SFAW says:

    Best wishes to you and your grandmother, and hoping for a full recovery.

  62. 62
    Schlemazel says:

    @WaterGIrl:
    I worked for arrogant and decent. The old french model said the chef had to be a giant dick but not everyone agreed.

  63. 63
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Schlemazel:

    I’m just saying that if Flay ended up getting fired for sexual harassment, you would basically see ZERO women sous-chefs on the Food Network, because every male chef would refuse to have even one. So that’s why I hope Flay is just a regular asshole and not a sexual harasser — because it will hurt women’s chances of getting jobs.

  64. 64
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @germy:

    He sounds so reliable!

  65. 65
    SFAW says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    She won’t be the nominee.

    Of course she won’t — who can stand against the rhetorical sword of purity wielded by St. Bernard?

  66. 66
    HAL says:

    @lamh36:

    To be quite honest, i thought this guy was gay…

    Um, he wears crocs

  67. 67
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’m just saying that if Flay ended up getting fired for sexual harassment, you would basically see ZERO women sous-chefs on the Food Network, because every male chef would refuse to have even one.

    I see the obvious problem here.

  68. 68

    @germy:

  69. 69
    TenguPhule says:

    @SFAW: Don’t make us have to decide between the two of them. Nobody would like the answer to that question except Republicans.

  70. 70
    Ruckus says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    In 2 months it will be 17 yrs for my dad and 6 for my mom.
    The last 10 yrs of my dads life was a constant level of crap, he had Alzheimer’s. He started showing signs 19 yrs before he died. His passing was both a sad and relieving day. Poor guy, he suffered this disease long and horribly. I wouldn’t wish this on anyone. My mom lived 95 yrs, but just plain old age got her, she just tuckered out. I don’t think she ever gave up, but her body did. Not a funny story but mom had her gallbladder removed in the late 80s and my ex and I were visiting her in the hospital. She had just gotten out of surgery and was awake so in ICU/recovery. We were talking to her, she was pretty much herself and then she just died. Nurses and docs came in, chased us out and revived her. We went back in, she acted like nothing had happened. It’s not funny watching your mom die, but it did bring home the lesson, never give up, you never know what’s around the next bend. She had another 24-26 big bends in the road of life.

  71. 71
    Miss Bianca says:

    @SFAW: Actually, I’m fully expecting harrassment/abuse allegations to drop against Sanders at some point. And then it will be very, very interesting – the way a train wreck is interesting – to see what happens next. Will the Purity Left demand the instant resignation sauce for their favorite gander? Or will there be calls for “due process!” and “investigations!”?

  72. 72
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kraux Pas: The Jungle Book and the Just So Stories for flavoring might help.

  73. 73
    Schlemazel says:

    @Kraux Pas:
    All the natives have to be primitive and fall over themselves praising the white guy. When they get frightened (which is very easy to do apparently) they get very wide-eyed and run off in fear abandoning the great white man to his own devices. On second thought I am not sure that old stories are the way you want to go

  74. 74
    SFAW says:

    @cope:

    Ospreys were my favorite bird … until I discovered roseate spoonbills.

    Never had either one. What’s the best way to cook/serve them?

  75. 75
    cope says:

    @Betty Cracker: Once when I was doing oilfield work in Utah, I was driving into town from the rig on a deserted two-lane highway. I was driving a POS company car, a crappy little early 80s Ford Fiesta. I saw something in the middle of the road way up ahead of me and slowed down as I got closer.

    It was a bald eagle feasting on a roadkill jack rabbit. I expected it to move away or even fly off as I approached. As I rolled up on it however, the big bird stood its ground, glaring right at me the whole time. Windows up, I rolled past it in the Fiesta. At closest approach (maybe 2 feet), the eagle and I were literally eye-to-eye as it was almost as tall as the car.

  76. 76
    SFAW says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Will the Purity Left demand the instant resignation sauce for their favorite gander? Or will there be calls for “due process” and “investigations!”?

    Gee, I wonder which it would be …

  77. 77
    cynthia ackerman says:

    @WaterGIrl:

    Back in the late ’70’s, the power company in Portland, OR did the same for a colony of feral parrots.

    Sadly, they do not seem to have survived past about 1990.

    I blame global warming.

  78. 78
    rikyrah says:

    @lamh36:

    Totally thought it was gonna be Flay.

  79. 79
    Schlemazel says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    And I was just being a smart ass, my default position. I have no idea and I don’t watch the food channel much because it has so little to do with cooking & so much to do with “reality” bullshit.

  80. 80
    joel hanes says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    older stories of this nature I could watch or read to research potential story lines, character archetypes, and tropes.

    _She_ and _King_Solomon’s_Mines_, by H. Rider Haggard
    Any of Edgar Rice Burroughs’s Tarzan ouvre.
    _Lord Tyger_, Phillip Jose Farmer
    _Heart_Of_Darkness_, Joseph Conrad

    Tarzan comic books from the 1950s.

    Sheena Queen of the Jungle TV shows from the ’50s

  81. 81
    NotMax says:

    @Kraux Pas

    Additionally to suggestions above, the film Mountains on the Moon, about Richard Francis Burton’s search for the source of the Nile. For original source material a lot of Burton’s writings are available for perusal here.

  82. 82
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Schlemazel:

    All the natives have to be primitive and fall over themselves praising the white guy. When they get frightened (which is very easy to do apparently) they get very wide-eyed and run off in fear abandoning the great white man to his own devices. On second thought I am not sure that old stories are the way you want to go

    Well, suffice it to say I’m damn near certain to have a different disposition toward the indigenous population; and several other things that may come up; than writers from the Victorial Era through to the 1980s (which seems to be when most of these were written).

    ETA: Thanks again, everyone, this is more than I could have hoped for. Looks like I’ll be consuming a lot of media over the winter break.

  83. 83
    cope says:

    @SFAW: Hee hee…I would recommend Alton Brown’s roast turkey recipe for either. I got unanimous “best turkey ever” compliments for my TG bird and expect the recipe would port over pretty well.

  84. 84
    Gravenstone says:

    @Mnemosyne: Battali regularly had Anne Burrel as his sous chef for years on ICA.

  85. 85
    stinger says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et Al.): My condolences. Hope the loss is getting easier to bear.

  86. 86
    Schlemazel says:

    @Miss Bianca:
    If we have learned anything in the last couple of weeks is any complaint must be believed, no man may deny or defend. Secondly, the only punishment acceptable, no matter the level, from making someone uncomfortable to the worst rape, is the man must be shot through the lungs & left for dead, there is no shading or remediation to be considered.

    The net result I am afraid is that more abusers are going to deny & fight and try to make life for their victims harder because it now is a matter of political/financial life and death.

  87. 87
    SFAW says:

    @cope:

    Thanks for the tip(s).

  88. 88
    The Moar You Know says:

    Actually, I’m fully expecting harrassment/abuse allegations to drop against Sanders at some point. And then it will be very, very interesting – the way a train wreck is interesting – to see what happens next. Will the Purity Left demand the instant resignation sauce for their favorite gander? Or will there be calls for “due process!” and “investigations!”?

    @Miss Bianca: He will get a complete pass from his fanbase the same way Trump has from his.

    The rest of us will stew in our own rage.

  89. 89
    Barbara says:

    @Miss Bianca: It’s starting to look like whatever the facts were with Franken, whatever the fair outcome might have been, he was standing in the way of Gillibrand’s strategy for getting accolades for herself and she had to get rid of him. Never been a big fan of Gillibrand, and definitely don’t like her better for what has transpired in the last week.

    ETA: Trump is not going to resign over allegations of sexual harassment and his “fans” don’t even care. More then a few of them probably like him even better for them.

  90. 90
    NotMax says:

    @NotMax

    Drat. No dessert for you tonight, stupid fingers.

    Mountain of the Moon.

  91. 91
    Yarrow says:

    @Kraux Pas: “Heart of Darkness” by Joseph Conrad.

  92. 92
    Schlemazel says:

    @cope:
    Had the same experience in Northern MN. But it was a committee of 3 eagles. They were not the least bit frightened by a 3000 pound car and they were not going to give up their deer. They gave us the stink eye as we inched past them. And, yes, they were eye level with the car window

  93. 93
    trollhattan says:

    @WaterGIrl:
    Heh, Birkenstocks were once such a thing and yet their level of awfulness could vary so much.

    My go-to guy on Crocs is the estimable Tim Gunn: “I can’t imagine a more aesthetically offensive item of footwear than Crocs. That little strap! I shudder. …I know Crocs are affordable. Well, so are Converse and lots of other brands that don’t look like hooves.”

  94. 94
    Cermet says:

    Hope she pulls out; but if cancer or heart disease doesn’t get ya, the immune system failure finally does. Living into and past 80’s is very difficult.

  95. 95
    NotMax says:

    @Kraux Pas

    Apparently not gonna be my day. Screwed up the linky to Burton’s writing above.

    Corrected link.

  96. 96
    Shana says:

    @Schlemazel: That sort of thing is why I hate Babar. Someone gave us a copy of the first book when our older daughter was born. We read it to her once and promptly put it in the donate pile.

  97. 97
    The Moar You Know says:

    My go-to guy on Crocs is the estimable Tim Gunn: “I can’t imagine a more aesthetically offensive item of footwear than Crocs. That little strap! I shudder. …I know Crocs are affordable. Well, so are Converse and lots of other brands that don’t look like hooves.”

    @trollhattan: That’s quite good. My favorite so far was the guy explaining “you know all the little holes at the bottom of the Crocs? That’s where the dignity flows out. Right through there.”

  98. 98
    Schlemazel says:

    @trollhattan:
    I use my crocks for gardening, they will never rot, they are waterproof (mine don’t have those holes in them) and they are comfortable. I will not give them up because a douchebag like Gunn does not approve.

    Having stood over a grill for hours I expect the rubber bottoms would be cushy and make the experience less a pain in the back. I wouldn’t wear my crocs to the park or store but I would wear them in the kitchen & garden

  99. 99
    trollhattan says:

    @cope:
    Used to work with a gal who does bird rescue. One day she responded to a call about an injured hawk along a road in the Sierra foothills, on arrival her hawk turned out to be a golden eagle. Good thing she brought a friend with, as wrangling an eagle (wounded and pissed) into a car must have been quite a spectacle. The photo she showed of the bird in her friend’s kitchen sink helped my comprehension of just how big, is big.

    According to my birding people balds are opportunists and goldens live to kill shit.

  100. 100
    Schlemazel says:

    @Shana:
    Babar is bad Tintin was the WORST! You could go through old KKK material and not find more offensive depictions. Ours went into the ‘donate to Vulcan’ pile

  101. 101
    stinger says:

    Best wishes for your grandmother, Betty Crocker.

  102. 102
    trollhattan says:

    @Schlemazel:
    My kid was adorable in Crocs until her foot growth outpaced the rest of her, now she won’t go near them.

    I know quite a few folks who take them camping/hiking for creek crossing and puttering around camp–they basically weigh nothing. If I ever get some they’ll be screaming yellow or somesuch, as the needed size 11 would already be comically large so why not go all in?

  103. 103

    @Schlemazel: Did you get the tamarind-date chutney recipe I posted in John Cole’s thread about Thai shrimp curry?

  104. 104
    Lapassionara says:

    @Barbara: Did you see the “Grab It” Tee shirts being worn by his fans, the words accompanied by a flying pussy cat?

    His fans are proud of him.

  105. 105
    germy says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Wow, I wouldn’t have predicted that one.

  106. 106
    rikyrah says:

    Sending positive thoughts for Grandma, BC.

  107. 107
    Ruckus says:

    @Cermet:
    And yet I’ve know a few who had little problem living to their 90s and one who lived till 103. It takes good genes, a bit of luck and decent healthcare.
    BTW I also know of a number who didn’t make it to 70, one who didn’t make it to 30 and one who didn’t make it to his first birthday. I think he suffered from the same thing that got his grandfather and his mother, congenital heart failure.

  108. 108
    Northlander says:

    @Barbara: Wait- so Al Franken goes around groping a bunch of women without consent, but the REAL villain is his female colleague who has the temerity to point out that his behavior was unacceptable?

    Gee, I wonder why women are hesitant to come forward with stories of abuse. /s

    With friends like these…

  109. 109
    germy says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Did Scaramucci know about Ryan Lizza's demise? Mooch Dec 4 interview: "This guy’s obviously a very bad actor. Karma’s a bitch. It’ll come back & bite him. You’ll see. You’re a transactional guy,” he added, addressing Lizza. “And you’re gonna have a transactional, miserable life."— Joe Concha (@JoeConchaTV) December 11, 2017

  110. 110
    Barbara says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Re: Ryan Lizza. Every once in a while I read something that definitely gets my antennae up, thinking, “this is a guy who is avoiding judging others lest he be judged.” There is a New Yorker article that I still remember, it was not written by Lizza, but it definitely seemed to suggest someone had some indiscretions he was worried about. It was about Petraeus and Broadwell. Read this quote and tell me what you think:

    Petraeus, and his defenders and attackers alike, referred to his “poor judgment,” but if the affair had had anything to do with judgment it never would have happened. Desire is not subject to the language of judicious choice, or it would not be desire, with a language all its own. The point of lust, not to put too fine a point on it, is that it lures us to do dumb stuff, and the fact that the dumb stuff gets done is continuing proof of its power. As Roth’s Alexander Portnoy tells us, “Ven der putz shteht, ligt der sechel in drerd”—a Yiddish saying that means, more or less, that when desire comes in the door judgment jumps out the window and cracks its skull on the pavement.

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/11/26/military-secrets

    Broadwell was clearly a willing participant, but so far as I can tell, Gopnik is defending Petraeus giving away military secrets to his lover because that’s what the “force of life” understandably makes us do sometimes. A literary rendition of “boys will be boys.”

  111. 111
    stinger says:

    @Kraux Pas: Out of Africa (book and movie) may give you some context; The Flame Trees of Thika (book and BBC-ish short TV series) provides the perspective of a 10-year-old English girl.

  112. 112
    The Moar You Know says:

    The photo she showed of the bird in her friend’s kitchen sink helped my comprehension of just how big, is big.

    @trollhattan: The San Diego Zoo used to have a monkey-eating eagle, which eats what you think it does, and that fucker had talons that could have wrapped around my head. And they were not disproportionate to the rest of the bird.

    What is hard to understand is how strong birds of prey are. When I was a lad, a friend of my mom’s came out with us, we were flying radio-control planes. She was a falconer and licensed bird rescuer. She had a little guy, a shrike I believe, that day. She asked if I wanted to hold him and I said “yes!” as any ten year old would. She got this HUGE glove out of her car and had me put it on. At least a solid quarter-inch of leather. I was just about about to say “hey, isn’t this a little overkill?” when she put him on my hand and OH MY GOD IT’S LIKE A BIG CONSTRUCTION GUY WITH WIRE CUTTERS IS TRYING TO SLICE MY HAND IN TWO. I have never had my hand gripped that hard by anything before or since. He was little! Maybe the size of my head. So I fed him pieces of rat and we got along fine, but I have had a very healthy respect for those birds since then. If you see an injured one, call rescue, because you cannot help them yourself. You’ll lose your hand, if you’re lucky.

  113. 113
    Yarrow says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    And yet Chris Cillizza still has a job.

  114. 114
    sharl says:

    Betty, best thoughts and wishes for your grandmother.

    @Kraux Pas: I’m working on a concept for a story, something of a jungle/safari adventure, likely to take the form of a comic book.

    So I’m trying to think of some older stories of this nature I could watch or read to research potential story lines, character archetypes, and tropes. I’m coming up short, though, and was hoping for someone to point me in the right direction.

    From scanning the comments, it looks like you have received plenty of good-sounding recommendations (and precautions) already.

    If you think some relatively recent (2002) non-fiction content might help you to achieve some kind of unique plot approach, involving reality-based vignettes merged with adventure/fantasy/whatever – assuming that might be a path you would pursue – I’ll suggest looking into Dark Star Safari by Paul Theroux (short Wikipedia description with a couple reference links; Amazon link with the usual description & reviews).

  115. 115
    catclub says:

    @SFAW:

    What’s the best way to cook/serve them?

    with spoonbread, obvs

  116. 116
    NotMax says:

    @Kraux Pas

    One more movie, so far as tropes are concerned. 1931’s Trader Horn.

  117. 117
    Lapassionara says:

    Hmm. Moderation? What did I say that put my comment in moderation?

  118. 118
    cope says:

    @trollhattan: Yeah, bald eagles are really just scavengers and opportunists.

  119. 119
    Yarrow says:

    @Kraux Pas: I don’t think anyone has mentioned “The African Queen” (Bogart and Hepburn). Might be a little more fun to review than some of the other suggestions.

  120. 120
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Barbara:
    Gopnik is just a terrible writer. I wouldn’t draw too many conclusions. He just spins b.s.

  121. 121
    JustRuss says:

    @Betty Cracker: On Saturday I saw a bald eagle doing that raptor thing where they hover over one spot by flapping into the wind. I’ve seen other birds do it, but never anything as big as a baldy. Very cool. Was driving, so no video, sadly.

  122. 122
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Yarrow:

    And I just saw clips of the great parody with Carol Burnett and Steve Lawrence.

  123. 123
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Against a Pigeon. Who will proceed to poop on her pieces.

    Before knocking them over by flapping its wings at them.

    True Progressives will laud the magnificence of her masterful play, and will deem that “fighting for the right things”.

  124. 124

    Two comments released from moderation.

  125. 125
    Yarrow says:

    @Kraux Pas: I can also recommend “Things Fall Apart” by Chinua Achebe if you want a view from the other side of colonialism.

  126. 126
    different-church-lady says:

    @Just the Facts:

    Politically, it’s almost like Gillibrand is playing 3-D chess.

    In 3-D chess, what’s the right strategy when you know your opponent and his supporters will not obey any of the rules of the game?

  127. 127
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @TenguPhule:

    The Jungle Book and the Just So Stories for flavoring might help.

    I always greatly preferred “In the High and Far-off Times, Best Beloved….” to the pedestrian “Once upon a time….” for opening a story.

  128. 128
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    Any Tarzan movie before about 1980. Also, see if your cable provider has the H&I channel (Heroes & Icons). They run the old 1960s Ron Ely Tarzan series on Saturday and Sunday mornings. Tropes and clichés galore. Sample program listing: “Tarzan goes up against slave traders.”

  129. 129
    different-church-lady says:

    Even Shaun King has had enough of emo-progressives.

  130. 130
    NotMax says:

    @zhena gogolia

    Pleasantly compelling documentary about the history of the actual German steam ship (fictionally depicted in the Bogart film) on Amazon Prime, The Real African Queen .

  131. 131
    Barbara says:

    @different-church-lady: Playing 3-D chess with an opponent who is likely to maintain that his pieces don’t follow the same rules that your pieces do — that is, if he doesn’t just take the chess board and turn it upside down is unlikely to give you the result you were aiming for. One of the first things you learn in a self-defense class is that you need to stop thinking that being reasonable will help you. A person who has violated every civic norm in attacking you is almost never amenable to reasoning. So it is with Trump and his supporters. Their view of Gillibrand’s demand that he resign in light of Franken is that she is a sucker and that Dems are even bigger suckers for having leaders like her.

  132. 132
    different-church-lady says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Trump eats shoes for breakfast.

    It’s like nobody around here was alive in 2016 or something…

  133. 133
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Schlemazel:

    All the natives have to be primitive and fall over themselves praising the white guy. When they get frightened (which is very easy to do apparently) they get very wide-eyed and run off in fear

    You forgot cannibals. Big cooking pot on open fire, white explorer/missionary (wearing pith helmet OBLIGATORY) in pot, natives gleefully dancing around pot.

  134. 134
  135. 135
    thruppence says:

    @Kraux Pas: Check out Things Fall Apart by Chinua Achebe. An African story about the coming of modernity told from an African point of view.

  136. 136
    TenguPhule says:

    @Northlander:

    Wait- so Al Franken goes around groping a bunch of women without consent

    Guilty until proven innocent AmIrite?!

    Rat fucked you in Trumpland.

  137. 137
    sharl says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Hmm, Ryan Lizza.
    I just had to see if there was a response to this news from Spencer Ackerman, all these years later.

    And here I thought Cat Person was fiction. https://t.co/eDtMd2ErxH— The Immortal Arthur Fist (@attackerman) December 11, 2017

    I guess some bad feelings never die.

  138. 138
    Heidi Mom says:

    @Kraux Pas: I just read The Poisonwood Bible by Barbara Kingsolver, and although it’s not the kind of story you’re planning to write — a dictatorial Baptist missionary and his wife and four daughters arrive in a tiny village in the Congo in 1960 and disaster ensues — you might find some useful material there. The missionary makes the kind of ignorant assumptions that are common in the movies others have mentioned. There are descriptions of the incredible fecundity of the soil, the floods that wash everything away, the dangers that live in the jungle at night, the gloriously colorful clothing, etc. A scene in which an army of ants overruns the village, forcing everyone to flee into the river until the ants sweep through, is incredibly vivid. In any event, good luck with your project!

  139. 139
    TenguPhule says:

    @cope:

    bald eagles are really just scavengers and opportunists.

    Really, our national symbol says it all.

  140. 140
    cintibud says:

    @Kraux Pas: I know Heart of Darkness has already been mentioned and this is probably getting rather far afield from what you are looking for but Apocalypse Now has some stunning jungle footage. Just don’t get out of the boat

  141. 141
    Schlemazel says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    No, I did look one up & posted that the 2 hour boiling time was off-putting. I’ll check back for your recipe & thanks a ton!

  142. 142
    different-church-lady says:

    One day I was playing 3-D chess with a chimpanzee. The chimpanzee continually made illegal moves. I removed one of my rooks from the board and demanded the chimp do the same.

    The chimp threw feces at me.

  143. 143
    trollhattan says:

    @The Moar You Know:
    Great story, and what a thrill for you as a kid!

    Friend at work grew up with a dad who acquired all manner of rescue critters and says the birds everybody had to really watch out for were the herons and egrets, as they can really wreck your day with those stabby beaks. Her favorites were owls, which apparently flew around the house silently due to their wing construction. But…the gal at our zoo who shows raptors said a colleague at another zoo had his thumb crushed holding an owl, right through the monster gloves. Yep, love them and respect them from a safe distance, thanks.

  144. 144
    NotMax says:

    @SiubhanDuinne

    One detail which always elicits a smirk is the one lead character’s ludicrously oversized-looking for his head pith helmet in the original Trader Horn. trailer

  145. 145
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @cope:
    @Schlemazel:
    Similar story here in Atlanta ten or twelve years ago, except it was a gaggle (?) of turkey vultures smack in the middle of the road. The carcass upon which they were feasting was too far gone for easy identification, but memory says it was a pretty good size — a fawn, perhaps, or a large dog. Those birds were the devil’s own ugly, and if one were to get too close I bet they’d reek to high heaven, but I honour their role in the suburban ecosystem.

  146. 146
    The Moar You Know says:

    Guilty until proven innocent AmIrite?!

    Rat fucked you in Trumpland.

    @TenguPhule: Russian not even trying to hide the Russia. “Northlander”. Yeah, I’ll say.

  147. 147
    The Moar You Know says:

    But…the gal at our zoo who shows raptors said a colleague at another zoo had his thumb crushed holding an owl, right through the monster gloves.

    @trollhattan: I absolutely believe that. It’s a wonder anything gets away from them.

  148. 148
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @Kraux Pas: The Phantom, aka the Ghost Who Walks.

  149. 149
    TenguPhule says:

    @different-church-lady: Chimps also being one of those primates that will literally try to eat your face too.

  150. 150
    NotMax says:

    @SiubhanDuinne

    Suddenly picturing David (Applebee’s salad bar) Brooks trotting up to interview them.

  151. 151
    Miss Bianca says:

    @different-church-lady: I’d hate to have to explain to my office mate why I’m laughing like this at work, so it’s just as well that he’s wearing sound-blocking headphones.

  152. 152

    @Schlemazel: My recipe involves no cooking.

    ETA: My recipe will keep in the fridge for two weeks or so. Its the best when it is at its freshest. Street food vendors who sell chat/bhel in India make their chutneys fresh everyday.

  153. 153
    psychobroad says:

    Best to Grandma! Grandmas are the best, I loved mine so much!

  154. 154

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: That’s some racist shit. Although I do have to confess, that I was a fan when I was a kidlet.

  155. 155
    NotMax says:

    @TenguPhule

    Wonderful moment from the (ostensibly) kids’ series Big Wolf on Campus.

    Scene: a talk show set.

    Host asks the guy what he feeds the “face eating wombat” he has with him.

    Guy holds up a plastic tub. Camera zooms closer on it. Impeccably produced design on it identifying it as “I Can’t Believe It’s Not Face.”

  156. 156
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @NotMax:

    The turkey vulture as metaphor for all that is Right and Good in modern society.

  157. 157
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @NotMax:

    Good lord.

  158. 158
    Wapiti says:

    @trollhattan:

    But…the gal at our zoo who shows raptors said a colleague at another zoo had his thumb crushed holding an owl, right through the monster gloves.

    Saw a video where a guy takes a bottle of beer, puts a mouse on top of it, and holds it upright. Mouse is perched on top of the bottle when the hawk swoops by, removing the mouse *and the bottle cap*.

  159. 159
    SFAW says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Did the chimp also say it had beaten you by three queens, 12 rooks, and a quatloo or two? And did it have the world’s worst combover?

  160. 160
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    Since your end result may be a comic book, check out relevant installments of The Adventures of Tintin (example) or the newspaper serial The Phantom.

  161. 161
    WaterGIrl says:

    @trollhattan: That gave me a chuckle.

  162. 162
    Northlander says:

    @The Moar You Know: So, we’re still in GOP-style denial that something ugly happened, eh?

    Never mind the multiple women who came forward. Or that a journalist and former Democratic staffer reported being groped by Sen. Franken.

    It’s all a right wing plot!

    Seriously- swap in Moore for Franken and “Fake News!” for allegations of ratfuckery and you’re basically walking the same path, regardless of the severity of the allegations.

    Fun fact: grabbing women against their will is wrong. There are multiple accusers.

    I don’t know about you, but I’m proud to support a party that doesn’t put up with such shit.

    Your willingness to compromise yourself is apparently higher.

  163. 163
    Schlemazel says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    I got it and see no 2 hour boil so I will give it a shot – THANKS!

  164. 164
    ET says:

    Ummm…. According to the White House some are suffering under the “yolk of authoritarianism and extremism”

    Outside of the whole yolk thing, that sentiment is sort of rich coming from this White House.

  165. 165
    debbie says:

    Betty, hope your grandmother pulls through this. But, hey, that’s your best-quality photo ever! Congratulations!

  166. 166
    SFAW says:

    @Northlander:

    You forgot Franken’s connection to Uranium-One and Rosatom. And his e-mails.

    But thanks for bringing a welcome breath of purity to this cesspit.

  167. 167
    debbie says:

    @Ruckus:

    I’ve had it twice. It truly sucks.

  168. 168
    Schlemazel says:

    @Northlander:
    Franken denied most of it & asked for an investigation. I think the work he has done earned him the right to defend himself. I understand you don’t feel that way but perhaps that desire for a hearing is not a moral failing but a belief that people deserve to be heard. Then there is the question of proportionality. If the only acceptable punishment for any transgression is the death penalty what do you do about the worst offenders? This is a very sensitive topic I get that but the personal attack on others morality is not going to change minds.

    And to be clear, I think Dump deserves to be investigated (you notice he has not asked to be do you wonder why that is?). I would not vote for Moore but if he was in office I would expect the same for him. If Franken were just a candidate I would call for him to step aside.

  169. 169
    SFAW says:

    @ET:

    According to the White House some are suffering under the “yolk of authoritarianism and extremism”

    Is it the whites that are suffering? As well as their leader, Rev. Alphonse (“call me Al”) Bumen.

  170. 170
    TenguPhule says:

    @Northlander:

    Never mind the multiple women who came forward. Or that a journalist and former Democratic staffer reported being groped by Sen. Franken.

    Never mind that the women are Republican ratfuckers or simply unknown.Try naming that staffer for starters.

    Never mind that their stories were never verified or came apart under actual scrutiny.

    Because your purity is sure.

  171. 171
    debbie says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    To crib from rikyrah, I’ll vote for her with pursed lips.

  172. 172
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Yup. It also has every jungle trope possible somewhere in the multiple decades of its history. I do recommend the collections of plot summaries at carrots fan sites over trying to read them.

  173. 173
    The Lodger says:

    @SFAW: But what does Sen. Hatch have to say about it?

  174. 174
    different-church-lady says:

    @SFAW: The chimp screeched something that sounded a little like “SNOWFLAKES!” and then masturbated.

  175. 175
    KS in MA says:

    Big hugs to you and your grandmother, Betty.

  176. 176
    NotMax says:

    Wracked the brain to recall the title of the other (equally drecky) “She” flick.

    Success: Jungle Moon Men.

  177. 177
    Northlander says:

    @Schlemazel: I think that’s a perfectly reasonable approach to the situation.

    Better than accusing me of being a Russian troll, at least. :)

    I would have been fine with an investigation. That said, there was enough “smoke” there to make me happy to move on and put someone who doesn’t have the ugly baggage of Franken.

    Dayton will appoint another Dem, and we can move forward.

    No person is bigger than the movement. If being happy to hold our own to a higher standard makes people think I’m calling for purity, I’m not sure what to tell them.

    I loved Al Franken the politician. I have no desire to defend Al Franken the man.

    I prefer working with people who don’t make me feel the need to hold my nose. Others may have more tolerance for such baggage.

  178. 178
    SFAW says:

    @different-church-lady:

    The chimp screeched something that sounded a little like “SNOWFLAKES!” and then masturbated.

    And, strangely, I am less repulsed by that image, than I am by the current denizen of the Oval Office.

  179. 179
    ET says:

    @SFAW: The whole Bill of Right press realease is bad chauvinistic in your face rah rahism, but at least they did change yolk to yoke.

  180. 180
    different-church-lady says:

    @Northlander:

    I don’t know about you, but I’m proud to support a party that doesn’t put up with such shit.

    Yeah, you’re proud of it. And in the meantime, a guy from the other party who’s done much much worse is on the verge of voting for stuff like destroying social security.

    The question here is not right from wrong: the question is will obeying the rules of decency ever again be rewarded by the electorate?

  181. 181
    SFAW says:

    @Northlander:

    That said, there was enough “smoke” there to make me happy to move on and put someone who doesn’t have the ugly baggage of Franken.

    So true. Just like the mountains of evidence regarding Whitewater, and Hillary’s speeches to Goldman Sachs, and her e-mails, and her as-yet-unhacked-but-you-know-it-was-only-a-matter-of-time server, and Benghaziii!!

  182. 182
    Emma says:

    @Northlander:

    Dayton will appoint another Dem, and we can move forward.

    If the rules are followed, Franken’s replacement will not take his place in committees. We have lost the best, canniest fighter in the biggest, most important committee currently in the Senate. The person that Dayton is most likely to appoint has already said IIRC, that she has no interest in being anything but a placeholder. That means that Franken’s seat will be up for grabs at the worst possible moment.

    I wouldn’t care one damn bit if something had been proven. But nothing has. We turned accusations into convictions and it’s going to bite us in the arse.

  183. 183
    Northlander says:

    @TenguPhule: Her name is Tina Dupuy.

    She wrote a piece about her experience in a little publication called “The Atlantic.”

    You know, that right-wing rag that runs pieces like “The Case for Reparations.”

    You can choose to not believe her. But between her piece and the other allegations, I saw enough to convince me that Al Franken isn’t the kind of man I want to spend much time defending.

    He might be right on the issues, but there are other Minnesota Dems who are right on the issues and don’t appear to have a history of groping women.

    I look forward to one of them representing the North Star state in the Senate.

  184. 184
    germy says:

    Already don jr. is gloating about Ryan Lizza

    I’m just going to title this “Things that appear to be more consensual than a Ryan Lizza relationship” https://t.co/qubYu2AA1T— Donald Trump Jr. (@DonaldJTrumpJr) December 11, 2017

  185. 185
    lamh36 says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: So they New Yorker fired him for “improper sexual conduct” based on an is an office romance gone wrong? Then Joe Scar & Mika B should be glad NBC doesn’t have the same policy.

    I mean if it’s the company policy, then sure it’s a violation….but still making this a sexual harassment/assault issue doesn’t seem right.

    I mean, there is an intrinsic gray area when it comes to actual consensual office romances. I mean they all have a chance of going badly…so I can imagine a company having a policy against them.

    I know most jobs I’ve had since I began working professionally, had a policy about people who had a familial or spousal relationship, not being allowed to work as Supervisor and employee? But can a business legally ban office romances?

    I’d hope companies take the time to make sure it’s not sour grapes from an office romance gone wrong…

    I might get dinged for this maybe, but…this is why office romances are bad & many companies have policies. not saying this is the case, but what’s to stop someone from saying a consensual relationship wasn’t if the romance ends badly. then it’s “he said, she said”

  186. 186
    B.B.A. says:

    For the record: I am not, nor have I ever been Northlander.

  187. 187
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @Northlander: Did I miss something? There was a journalist?

  188. 188
    Northlander says:

    @different-church-lady: I don’t know about you, but the old “but he did it too, and worse!” excuse stopped working for me around the age of five.

    Just because the other side is a pack of depraved and amoral grifters and troglodytes doesn’t mean we have to join them.

    I’m all for fighting like hell. But Al Franken isn’t a hill worth dying on in my opinion.

    Others seem to disagree. Which doesn’t surprise me much- this is the Democratic Party, after all.

    Fighting with each other is one of our oldest traditions. :)

  189. 189
    different-church-lady says:

    @lamh36:

    Then Joe Scar & Mika B should be glad NBC doesn’t have the same policy.

    Wasn’t it a week or two ago we found out that NBC has a lot of eyebrow-raising “policies”?

  190. 190
  191. 191
  192. 192
    SFAW says:

    @Northlander:

    Ah, yes, Tina Dupuy who characterized his photo shoot waist-grabbing as trying to “cop a feel.” I guess Franken should consider himself lucky that she didn’t talk about when he tried to force her hand down to his groin, or slipping his hand down her pants — or was it up her dress?

    “Cop a feel”? OK then.

  193. 193
    joel hanes says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    For a truly obscure book set in Central American jungles:
    _Mystery_In_The_Tropics_, by Irving “Speed” Wallace
    Shrunken head fu. Evil temptress fu. Poisonous reptile fu. Joe Bob says check it out.

  194. 194
    different-church-lady says:

    @Northlander: You seem to be very resolutely missing a huge part of the point: doing the right thing is one thing. Claiming brilliant strategy because you’ve forced the other side to have the same morals is sheer idiocy.

    You enjoy the superior placement of your moral line all you want, but it won’t change the deliberate destruction of this country by Orcs one bit.

  195. 195
    SFAW says:

    @B.B.A.:

    For the record: I am not, nor have I ever been Northlander.

    No, Northlander’s style is reminiscent of one of the “Burn Franken at the stake” quasi-trolls from last week, but I’m too lazy to try to figure out who.

  196. 196
    WaterGIrl says:

    Can someone here who uses Twitter, and who possibly watches Orange is the New Black please translate this tweet from Tim Kaine for me?

    Tim Kaine‏Verified account
    @timkaine

    Tim Kaine Retweeted Doug Jones
    When it comes to dominating the paint, I’m more of a Ralph Sampson guy. But I’m definitely with Sir Charles when it comes to the Alabama Senate race tomorrow. Go Doug!

  197. 197
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @Northlander: Oh, that poor woman. I sincerely hope she gets the help she so desperately needs.

    I thought you were talking about a credible allegation.

  198. 198
    B.B.A. says:

    @SFAW: That’s what I’m saying. I’m off that now. I have other topics to troll about!

  199. 199
    different-church-lady says:

    @SFAW:

    …but I’m too lazy to try to figure out who.

    And in the end is there any point?

  200. 200
    different-church-lady says:

    @WaterGIrl: Psst: basketball.

  201. 201
    SFAW says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    Was Dupuy the one who said she doesn’t like it when her husband grabs her waist in public (or something like that)?

  202. 202
    MomDoc says:

    @WaterGIrl: This tweet is about basketball. Ralph Sampson and Charles Barkley (Sir Charles) are former ball players. Charles is from Alabama and has voiced support for Doug Jones so Tim is probably referencing this.

  203. 203
    Northlander says:

    @different-church-lady: I never once said it was a brilliant strategy.

    I just know how I feel about the situation.

    I really did love Al. But I don’t feel like fighting a knock down dragout fight to save a man who has admitted he crossed lines with his behavior towards women.

    Some seem to think that moving on from him is some sort of admission of defeat.

    I view it as a sign that we aren’t just about talking the talk, but also walking the walk. I want to win, AND take the high road.

    If we embrace situational ethics just so we can win, what are we really fighting for?

    “For what shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul?”

  204. 204
    SFAW says:

    @different-church-lady:

    And in the end is there any point?

    Of course not. Whether NL is Purity Pony A, or B, or C doesn’t really matter.

    ETA: But the inability of NL to construct a coherent,multi-sentence paragraph is interesting. I guess he/she think it gives his/her “writing” greater effect.

  205. 205
    J R in WV says:

    @cope:

    We were driving into the mountains west of Canyon City CO on US 50 back in 2013 or ’14 with friends in 2 vehicles. Wife saw a BIG bird take a big trout from the Arkansas river right by the road. She thought it was a bald eagle. They are pretty distinctive. This would have been in… late March? Give or take a few weeks.

  206. 206
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @WaterGIrl: It’s basketball. Ralph Sampson played center (in the paint) for the University of Virginia; no surprise Kaine would remember him. Sir Charles is Charles Barkley.

  207. 207
    different-church-lady says:

    @Northlander:

    I never once said it was a brilliant strategy.

    Then try reading the thread.

    I want to win, AND take the high road.

    If you know a way to do both in the current environment, then the Nobel committee would like to talk to you.

  208. 208
    TenguPhule says:

    @Northlander:

    Her name is Tina Dupuy.

    And you’re wrong.

    That was accuser number #8.

    Accuser #7, the “Democratic Staffer” was not fact-checked and we don’t know which Republican she actually is.

  209. 209
    WaterGIrl says:

    @MomDoc: Thank you! How much do I owe you for the clue?

    edit: two basketball references (I don’t follow basketball) and one Orange is the New Black reference (I have yet to watch that show). No wonder I didn’t get it.

  210. 210
    WaterGIrl says:

    @Northlander: This guy is a troll. How ’bout if we don’t let him derail this thread?

  211. 211
    Barbara says:

    @WaterGIrl: “Dominating the paint” refers to basketball, and specifically the area beneath the basket that is usually painted a different color. Ralph Sampson was the big man at UVA and then played for Dallas. Charles Barkley is referred to as Sir Charles and is another professional basketball player, who is apparently from Alabama.

  212. 212
    TenguPhule says:

    @Northlander:

    That said, there was enough “smoke” there to make me happy to move on and put someone who doesn’t have the ugly baggage of Franken.

    Dayton will appoint another Dem, and we can move forward.

    “We will sack the admiral at Midway and appoint an ensign in his place! Because they all wear uniforms, there is not difference between them QED! Never mind that all the accusers only speak Kansai, surely with so many accusations made there must be something to them! After all, look at Hillary Clinton!”

  213. 213
    WaterGIrl says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Aha! One more piece of the puzzle. I get it now. thanks

  214. 214
    Northlander says:

    @TenguPhule:

    “Tina Dupuy is the former communications director for Congressman Alan Grayson, and has been a nationally syndicated op-ed columnist”

    She’s a journalist AND former Democratic staffer.

    I was using both roles (current and former) to refer to her.

  215. 215
    WaterGIrl says:

    @Barbara: Yes! Yet one more piece of the puzzle. Yay!

  216. 216
    TenguPhule says:

    @Northlander:

    But between her piece and the other allegations, I saw enough to convince me that Al Franken isn’t the kind of man I want to spend much time defending.

    Which makes you less then useless and beyond naive. None of the accusations stood up to scrutiny.

    Not one.

    Let us know when you stop beating your wife.

  217. 217
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Northlander:

    I want to win, AND take the high road.

    Pick one or the other. You’re not going to get both.

  218. 218
    germy says:

    @WaterGIrl: I want to be compassionate, but Dupuy strikes me as someone desperate to be part of a movement, any movement. She’s variously known as a journalist, a standup comic, and a democratic staffer.

    I’ve interacted with people like her throughout my career. They never settle on one thing or bring any project to completion. Their main focus is always themselves; their quest for recognition and notoriety. Flaky is an adjective often used to describe them. They’re big on shortcuts and dramatic actions, rather than quiet hard work.

  219. 219
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @SFAW: Yeah. Last time I talked to someone who sounded like her was during the Satanic Ritual Abuse moral panic, someone who had fallen in with a SRA therapist. The therapist should have had charges filed, she did so much damage.

    @TenguPhule: Dupuy was also identified as a former staffer.

  220. 220
    TenguPhule says:

    @Northlander: Pissy Waist Was #8. “Former Democratic Staffer who refused to release her name” was #7.

    Dupay can kindly eat shit and die.

  221. 221
    Northlander says:

    It’s not my intent to troll or derail the thread. I’m a long time lurker at this site, and genuinely enjoy the conversations I see here.

    I know my opinion on this is out of sync with some others here, but I figured I’d make my case.

    So it goes.

    I’m happy to disengage at this point, to avoid things spiraling in circles. Everyone is pretty dug in and I doubt several more posts will change that.

    In the interest of paying due respect to the original post…I saw four bald eagles last weekend, which is always a treat. Seeing them continue to make a strong comeback, along with other raptors, is pretty awesome.

  222. 222
    Miss Bianca says:

    @J R in WV: Yeah, that would be a baldie. They hang out on the Arkansas along that US-50 corridor a lot.

  223. 223
    TenguPhule says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    Dupuy was also identified as a former staffer.

    She wasn’t one at the time of her accusation.

  224. 224
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Yarrow:

    Tarzan and His Mate has Jane’s nude swim restored in most modern versions, so it depends on your idea of “fun,” I suppose. 😉

    (I say “Jane” because they used a body double for Maureen O’Sullivan, so it’s not really her.)

  225. 225
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @TenguPhule: True, but do you really expect a purity troll to worry about such details?

  226. 226
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Now I’m picturing Our Hero rescuing said explorer, only to discover that the natives were in the right and the asshole explorer deserved it. Shenanigans ensue.

  227. 227
    germy says:

    Matt Lauer/Charlie Rose syndrome?

    A good way for Dems to have avoided so much coverage of those emails would have been to nominate someone who wasn’t under FBI investigation— Ryan Lizza (@RyanLizza) September 26, 2017

  228. 228
    WaterGIrl says:

    @germy: A waist squeeze while having a photo take is not the same as being groped. If she experienced the waist squeeze as a grope, then I hope she gets the professional help she needs. It was terribly irresponsible for The Atlantic to post that article under the headline: Al Franken groped me too. And then you had to read multiple paragraphs of a boring article in order to find out that he had his arm around her for a photo and gave her waist a squeeze.

  229. 229
    Northlander says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    “Tina Dupuy, a journalist and former Democratic congressional staffer, on Wednesday alleged that Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) groped her at a party in 2009.”

    Media coverage referred to her exactly the way I referred to her.

    Next time I’ll put it in quotes and add footnotes, if that helps..

    Do you prefer ALA, MLA, or Chicago? Just wanna be sure I meet your standards.

  230. 230
    TenguPhule says:

    Ex-GOP governor stumps for Franken to not resign.

    In a post that began with a tale of being falsely accused of a burglary when he was in the sixth grade, Carlson, a Republican who supported Democrats Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, took shots at President Donald Trump and Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer, suggesting political motives are trumping facts and fairness.

    “Further, we know that Senate Democrats who asked for Franken’s resignation may have been motivated more by the politics of the Alabama Senate race than the seriousness of the allegations,” Carlson writes. “And now we have the supreme insult of New York Sen. Schumer ‘advising’ Governor Dayton on how to pick a successor. That is a certainty for GOP advertising in 2018.

    “It is time for all of us to sober up. Our nation is in peril with Donald Trump in the White House and Republicans yielding to his demands. We are increasingly moving towards authoritarianism and continued GOP subservience could possibly lead to the dissolution of the Mueller investigation.”

    Echoing a strain of Franken-defending theories from the left, Carlson raised questions about whether Franken accuser Leeann Tweeden’s allegations can be trusted.

    “The possibility of any rigging by Roger Stone and his associates should cause all of us to call for a rescinding of the Franken resignation and a prompt and thorough review of all allegations by the Senate Ethics Committee,” Carlson writes, referring to the right-wing political strategist whose tweet foreshadowing Tweeden’s allegations has spawned claims that Tweeden’s accusations — part of which were backed up with a photograph that Franken never denied — were part of a smear campaign.

    Al Franken shouldn’t resign, says former Minnesota Republican Gov. Arne Carlson

  231. 231
    germy says:

    @WaterGIrl:

    Al Franken groped me too

    She wants to be part of the Me Too movement. She wants to be part of something and she wants to be famous.

    When she was much younger, she drank heavily and then decided to join AA. She achieved a bit of fame at AA by giving testimonials. Much later, she decided that maybe she wasn’t an alcoholic after all.

    The Me Too movement is much too important to be used by opportunists like her or republican ratf*ckers.

  232. 232
    different-church-lady says:

    @germy:

    A good way for Dems to have avoided so much coverage of those emails would have been to nominate someone who wasn’t under FBI investigation— Ryan Lizza

    “A good way for Lizza to have avoided the collapse of his career would have been to not engage in sleazebaggery– Karma”

  233. 233
    Joy in FL says:

    Betty Cracker, I hope your grandmother will be ok.

  234. 234
    germy says:

    Reporters and media execs who shaped Hillary Clinton campaign narrative and have been accused of sexual harassment or assault:
    Mark Halperin
    Jordan Chariton
    Bill O'Reilly
    Roger Ailes
    Michael Oreskes
    Glenn Thrush
    Charlie Rose
    Matt Lauer
    Harold Ford Jr.
    Tom Ashbrook
    Ryan Lizza
    — Shannon Watts (@shannonrwatts) December 11, 2017

  235. 235
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Northlander:

    Or that a journalist and former Democratic staffer reported being groped by Sen. Franken.

    And that person’s name is … ?

    Oh, right, she kept her accusations anonymous. Meanwhile, another woman published a long, weepy article in the Atlantic because he squeezed her waist.

    But, sure, let’s set up a precedent that Democrats can be forced to resign based on anonymous, unverifiable accusations. There’s no way that could backfire on us.

  236. 236
    different-church-lady says:

    @germy: Gonna be interesting to see how Maggie H works her way onto that list…

  237. 237
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Northlander:

    He. Squeezed. Her. Waist.

    Dupuy needs to tell her therapist that her PTSD is interfering with her everyday life, not announce to the world that having her waist squeezed during a photo is just as bad as being raped.

  238. 238
  239. 239
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Northlander:

    The fact that you’re willing to run good Democrats out of the party based on a waist squeeze says a whole lot more about you than I think you realize.

  240. 240
    SFAW says:

    @WaterGIrl:

    If she experienced the waist squeeze as a grope, then I hope she gets the professional help she needs.

    She also knew that he was “trying to cop a feel.” Her apparent lack of understanding of either idiom, or anatomy, reminds me of the old (bad) joke:

    Old Fart A: “Gettin’ any on the side lately?”
    Old Fart B: “Jeez, it’s been so long, I didn’t know they’d moved it!”

  241. 241
    debbie says:

    @germy:

    That’s evidence of a male mindset, involving picking on someone smaller. It’s the same kind of mindset that enabled Joe Biden to harangue Anita Hill, Phil Gramm to harangue Brooksie Born, and on and on. Some things never change.

    Carry on.

    ETA: And don’t forget all the ragging on Patricia Shroeder after she broke down in tears.

  242. 242
    Origuy says:

    @Kraux Pas: Larry NIven and Steven Barnes’s Dream Park series comes to mind, although they went in a different direction. They describe a theme park where LARPers go to play a fantasy adventure game.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Park

  243. 243
    SFAW says:

    @debbie:

    Phil Gramm to harangue Brooksie Born, and on and on.

    Not disagreeing with your main point at all, but wasn’t Gramm out of the Senate before she came on the scene? (Yes, I freely admit I’m too lazy to check on my own.)

    ETA: And it’s not just smaller, it’s perceived weakness. When Ed Muskie was running for Pres, there was an incident where he appeared to be crying during a snowstorm interview, when he was responding to attacks on his wife. He probably wasn’t actually crying, it was probably just melting snow. But it pretty much sank his candidacy.
    Of course, Shroeder was treated worse, but still.

  244. 244
    TenguPhule says:

    @germy: The Usual Suspects.

  245. 245
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @SFAW: In ’08, when HRC choked when talking about why she was running for President, Maureen Dowd wrote that “a woman in the NYT office” said something about “is she supposed to scare bin Laden by crying”. I’d bet all the pot chocolate in Colorado that MoDo was auto-quoting there.

  246. 246
    debbie says:

    @SFAW:

    Argghh. First, it’s Brooksley, not Brooksie. I can’t find confirmation on Google, but i remember Phil Gramm berating her/a woman testifying in the Senate. She was warning the members about derivatives and Gramm jumped down her throat.

  247. 247
    SFAW says:

    @debbie:

    Yeah, I knew who you meant, and the topic Gramm was being a dickhead about sounds like her area of expertise. Well, actually, Gramm was always a dickhead, but still …

  248. 248
    Mnemosyne says:

    @debbie:
    @SFAW:

    Schroeder. Don’t you people know any Germans?

  249. 249
    SFAW says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yeah, MoDo and The Always Clueless Joan Vennochi (Boston Glob) seem to get their hate on extra-special-good when they’re going after a strong woman. Shannon O’Brien (ran against Mittens in 2002) Hillary, Elizabeth Warren, maybe Martha Coakley as well — I believe Vennochi went after each of them.

  250. 250
    J R in WV says:

    Betty,

    Hoping for the best with your grandma. Pneumonia can be tough to beat, but modern medicine is also hard to beat.

    Thanks for the bird pic, too. Also.

    JR

  251. 251
    SFAW says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Schroeder. Don’t you people know any Germans?

    Outside of half of my family, only a couple. But, for what it’s worth: not every German name (or French, for that matter) made it through Ellis Island unscathed. My (Austrian) grandmother’s family had their surname shortened from 11 or 12 letters to four letters, and someone (surname Boudreau) once told that the surname “Boudreau” does not exist in France. (I’m skeptical, but not a genealogist, so who knows?)

    I used to speak passable German, but I’m pretty sure Amir Khalid speaks it better than I.

    I’m sorry, did I go off topic?

  252. 252
    frosty fred says:

    I am sort of a genealogist, and it’s now generally accepted that the Ellis Island name changes are an urban myth. Which is pretty much off topic, but this is an open thread.

  253. 253
    WaterGirl says:

    @germy:

    The #MeToo movement is much too important to be used by opportunists like her or republican ratf*ckers.

    I think you’re right about that. It’s all about co-opting something good and important to take away its power.

  254. 254
    WaterGirl says:

    @germy: The list just keeps on getting longer.

  255. 255
    SFAW says:

    @frosty fred:

    and it’s now generally accepted that the Ellis Island name changes are an urban myth

    Except for the people who had their names changed, of course. Who apparently don’t exist? I’ll have to tell my Grossmutter that her name wasn’t changed after all. Of course, it will have to be via seance.

    “Urban myth.” Do tell.

  256. 256
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Dupuy needs to tell her therapist that her PTSD is interfering with her everyday life, not announce to the world that having her waist squeezed during a photo is just as bad as being raped.

    Quoted for truth.

  257. 257
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @frosty fred: except for the one in the Godfather II. That really happened. I saw it on TV. Like nine times.

  258. 258
    numfar says:

    Is there something going on with the site?

    Chrome performance really plummets when I browse the comments, to the point that I can’t even pagedown.

    Any ideas?

  259. 259
    NotMax says:

    @frosty fred

    “Welcome to America. Your name is Vyle Pyggfukker, is that correct?”

    ;)

  260. 260
    No Drought No More says:

    “..[The judge] raised concerns that some of the properties that Manafort is seeking to put up as bail did not have appraisals connected to them in the court filings. For at least one of them, his attorneys had submitted Zillow listings to show the property’s worth instead….“Zillow is actually considered to be pretty accurate,” Downing said in defense of the move. The comment drew murmured laughter in the courtroom”.

    This swindler operated in tens of million$ of dollars on a regular basis, and hires an attorney with the gall to pull that nonsense with the court. I resent the arrogance from a continent away; I would further resent it if I was that judge. “Did I say I WASN’T going to revoke your bail, Mr. Manafort? I apologize to you, sir, for I just now remembered that I misspoke”.

  261. 261
    Betsy says:

    Betty, here’s hoping for the best for your dear old grandmother. I can only imagine what traits we love that you got from her.

  262. 262
    Mayim says:

    @SFAW:

    Late to the thread, as always… but, yeah, names weren’t changed at Ellis Island/other immigration points. No space on the forms, and the clerks (who spoke many languages) checked names off a manifest generated in Europe/other point of origin. They were also processing hundreds/thousands of people a day.

    I’ve personally researched over a hundred non-native English speakers who arrived at Ellis Island ~ many of whose descendants had family stories of their names being changed. In every cas, the paperwork turned out to either have the original non-English name… or the family had spent time in England before moving on the the U.S. and the name change was documented before the Atlantic crossing.

    If you have a name change that was actually documented at Ellis Island, it will be the first one found by a researcher ;-)

    P.S. actually, there’s one possible name change ~ but for someone who would now be described as trans.

    P.P.S. Don’t let me start in on that other big myth, the 100+ Eskimo/Inuit words for snow ;-)

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