Some Good News in these Dark Times

This is an objectively good thing:

Progressive radio and television personality Sam Seder will be offered his MSNBC contributor job back and plans to accept, according to multiple MSNBC sources.

Seder and MSNBC were set to part ways when his contributor contract expired next year, with reports indicating the departure had to do with a 2009 tweet from Seder surfaced by the far-right provocateur Mike Cernovich. After initially caving in to right-wing internet outrage over the tweet, MSNBC reversed its decision to not renew Seder’s contract.

“I appreciate MSNBC’s thoughtful reconsideration and willingness to understand the cynical motives of those who intentionally misrepresented my tweet for their own toxic, political purposes,” Seder said in a statement to The Intercept. “We are experiencing an important and long overdue moment of empowerment for the victims of sexual assault and of reckoning for their perpetrators. I’m proud that MSNBC and its staff have set a clear example of the need to get it right.”

This is a good first step. The next steps for MSNBC are firing Andrew Lack, who apparently is personally intent on removing all POC and liberal talent from MSNBC. The most important step, however, is for organizations out there to finally get it through their thick skulls that the right has a lot of people acting in bad faith who just want a body count to hurt the libtards and to boost their own street cred. When Mike Cernovich, James O’Keefe, and the staffs of the Federalist and Breitbart tell you to jump, the appropriate response is not “How high?” but “eat a bag of dicks.”

174 replies
  1. 1
    The Moar You Know says:

    MSNBC is run better than the Dem party and has more integrity. That I can write that and mean it seriously makes me want to vomit.

    ReplyReply
  2. 2

    What dark times? I thought you wanted Franken to resign, and now he has. So rejoice.

    ReplyReply
  3. 3
    Repatriated says:

    In addition to being the right thing to do, it also provides a precedent that actions taken based on false information can be walked back.

    ReplyReply
  4. 4

    This clause highlights the problem quite nicely.

    After initially caving in to right-wing internet outrage over the tweet…

    ReplyReply
  5. 5
    scav says:

    Also, the police officer who shot and killed Walter Scott getting 20 years. OK, not life, but still something in the appropriate direction.

    ReplyReply
  6. 6

    Also: Michael Slager got a 20-year sentence for murdering Walter Scott.

    ReplyReply
  7. 7
    WaterGirl says:

    When they tell you to jump, say “You first!”. I also suggest adding a “motherfucker”, also.

    ReplyReply
  8. 8

    @Repatriated:

    actions taken based on false information can be walked back.

    I’m so old I remember when that made you a flip-flopping lying neoliberal pandering hawk.

    ReplyReply
  9. 9
    John Cole says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I never wanted Al Franken to resign. Can you all not read?

    I will note I did not say he has to resign, I merely said he is done. And he is. Just like I said Weiner was done when the news came out, and everyone told me he was not and that I was an asshole, and then a few days later he resigned.

    It doesn’t matter that he isn’t as bad as Moore, in this political climate, he is done. That’s just an objective fact. I love Al Franken and think he has been an amazing advocate, but no one is going to stick with him now that we are up to four allegations.

    Lash out at someone else. I like Franken. I just deal with the real world and not shit I make up in my head, which is why I left the fucking GOP.

    ReplyReply
  10. 10

    @John Cole: You piled on to the outrage machine. Since when is stating a fact lashing out.

    ReplyReply
  11. 11
    John Cole says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Link one place where I piled on. Just one. All I ever did was state what I saw happening.

    Also, there were never 60 votes for the fucking public option.

    ReplyReply
  12. 12

    @John Cole: You must have me confused with someone else, I don’t care a whit about the public option.

    ReplyReply
  13. 13
    Ohio Mom says:

    Okay
    It’s been FIVE AND A HALF hours since Ohio Dad was wheeled into aortic valve replacement surgery. My sister and my friend Shelley are having s grand old time chatting but I am about to throw up or explode.

    The surgeon warned me they could be in there s long time but that isn’t helping.

    ReplyReply
  14. 14
    John Cole says:

    @Ohio Mom: Was this planned? Are you ok?

    ReplyReply
  15. 15
    Nicole says:

    @John Cole: I just deal with the real world and not shit I make up in my head, which is why I left the fucking GOP.

    No joke, last night I was just telling two of my good friends about watching your political migration happen in the aughts.

    Once the one is out of the job she’s currently in, a job that requires her to report that she’s taking breaks she’s not actually getting to take, she may have time to check the blog out.

    ReplyReply
  16. 16
    tobie says:

    @Ohio Mom: Hang in there. My father had is aortic valve replaced three years ago and the surgery was quite long. It’s hell to wait but this is a procedure that the doctors are very good at. We’re pulling for you and your dad.

    ReplyReply
  17. 17

    I’m disappointed in the members of the Balloon Juice commentariat who embraced conspiracy theory and denial on behalf of Senator Franken, who is no longer capable of effectively representing his state or his party. The fact that every thread about him blows up is only proof that he occupies a lot of mental space that we need for other things. My goal is to destroy the GOP and elevate the Democratic Party. Al Franken is not the Democratic Party, he is simply a member that will only hurt more than help at this point.

    I really looked up to the guy, but he is not the man we thought he was. Feel free to rip me apart in a year or three if any one of us yutzes is going, “Boy, getting rid of Al Franken really ruined our chances in 2018/2020.”

    ReplyReply
  18. 18

    @John Cole: @John Cole: Well, there’s this one where your initial take was

    in my opinion, Franken should probably resign.

    ReplyReply
  19. 19
    Ohio Mom says:

    @John Cole: oh yes, we have known he needed his valve replaced for months. Interviewed three surgeons, this was the best one. The scary part is that they stop your heart. Then you hope they get in beating again.

    Sometimes it doesn’t beat properly and they have to add a pacemaker. But that would benokay.

    ReplyReply
  20. 20
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @WaterGirl:

    When they tell you to jump, say “You first!”. I also suggest adding a “motherfucker”, also.

    This. I’m heartsick and taking a break from the internets for the day, although I appreciate the good news post. I think the Dems got played with Franken…just as with ACORN and Shirley Sherrod. I hate that Sen. Gillibrand decided to ask Franken to resign because it got “too hard” for her to do nuance (I heard her say something to that effect yesterday on the radio). What we needed was due process and sensible differentiation (is butt touching really the same thing as pedophilia?), and what we got was mob justice. I need to go away and work on the garden and spreadsheets, but not at the same time.

    Ciao for now.

    ReplyReply
  21. 21

    @Ohio Mom: Did they give you a sense of how long the surgery would take?

    ReplyReply
  22. 22
    Aleta says:

    A judge has sentenced former South Carolina police officer Michael Slager to 20 years in prison more than two years after he fatally shot Walter Scott, an unarmed black man, as he ran away.

    Judge David Norton found that Slager, a former officer with the North Charleston’s police department in South Carolina, committed second-degree murder and obstruction of justice. In May, Slager pleaded guilty to violating Scott’s federal civil rights in a plea deal that dropped the state’s murder charge.

    “I thank God for the 50 years he was here,” said Judy Scott, Walter Scott’s mother, after Judge Norton’s ruling. Later, after the sentence was announced, Judy Scott forgave her son’s murder.

    “I forgive Michael Slager. I forgive you. Forgiveness is in my heart,” she reportedly said while looking directly at Slager in the courtroom.

    Without the bystander who bravely stood and recorded and reported, he might still be on the force.

    ReplyReply
  23. 23
    Ohio Mom says:

    @tobie: not my dad, Hubbie. My little family is me, Ohio Mom, Ohio Dad and Ohio Son.

    ReplyReply
  24. 24

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    I need to go away and work on the garden and spreadsheets

    One of these things is not like the other…

    ReplyReply
  25. 25
    Swannie says:

    The Democrat party is a flaming dumpster fire.

    ReplyReply
  26. 26
    joel hanes says:

    t’s been FIVE AND A HALF hours since Ohio Dad was wheeled into aortic valve replacement surgery.

    Echoing tobie — my Mom’s valve replacement took longer than expected, and then the staff was (rightly) more concerned with getting her into a stable post-op than with updating us before the outcome was assured.

    Best wishes, and I truly hope it comes out as well as Mom’s : she and two other people in her church received bovine replacement valves, and they “moo” at each other when greeting, and gave each other Holstein-pattern black-and-white t-shirts.

    ReplyReply
  27. 27
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Ohio Mom: Pulling for you and Ohio Dad! Sending you New Mexico hugs!

    ReplyReply
  28. 28
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): About five hours.

    Buzzer just buzzed
    Time to talk to doc
    More later

    ReplyReply
  29. 29
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Thank you for that. After I read the huffing and puffing by Mr. Cole in the comments my first thought was “Wait, did I just imagine that he said that?” Thank you for saving me the time.

    ReplyReply
  30. 30

    @Major Major Major Major: Thanks! You saved me the trouble of finding that post.

    ReplyReply
  31. 31
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Ohio Mom: Breathe deep and best wishes to you and Ohio Dad. And Ohio Son.

    ReplyReply
  32. 32
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ohio Mom: Keeping good thoughts.

    ReplyReply
  33. 33
    sharl says:

    That shot at the Federalist was hurtful. My homeboy Federalist Pitchbot has been doing some fine work on twitter.

    "I've done some quick googling of Middle Eastern history, and I'm convinced that recognizing Jerusalem will stun both Israel's neighbors and militant Palestinian groups, like that tough to pronounce one beginning with H, into peace"https://t.co/Hu3mvot8NH— Federalist PitchBot (@FederalistPitch) December 7, 2017

    ReplyReply
  34. 34

    @Aleta: I don’t quite understand how he ended up with a murder conviction if the state dropped the murder charges in exchange for him pleading guilty to a federal civil rights violation. Were they federal murder charges?

    ReplyReply
  35. 35
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    More good news: Morgan Stanley has fired former DINO Congressman (and Morning Joe darling) Harold Ford Jr. for sexual misconduct.

    ReplyReply
  36. 36
    joel hanes says:

    @Thoroughly Pizzled:

    My goal is to destroy the GOP and elevate the Democratic Party.

    I’m having a hard time seeing what happened today as a step toward that goal, any more than firing Jocelyn Elders or Shirley Sherrod was. As you say, we shall see.

    ReplyReply
  37. 37

    Is BJ tab crashing for people? It has crashed thrice in the last half hour for me. Windows 10 Professional edition and Firefox.

    ReplyReply
  38. 38
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: Sen. Gillibrand decided to ask Franken to resign because it got “too hard” for her to do nuance (I heard her say something to that effect yesterday on the radio).

    She said something like, now is not the time to draw distinctions. I prefer Joy Reid’s formulation: If everything is the same, nothing matters.

    @SiubhanDuinne: I hope MSNBC shitcans him. He’ll land on his feet somewhere down (Wall) Street, but I’d be happy to be spared his smug bro-y chumminess with Morning Joe types for the rest of my life

    ReplyReply
  39. 39
    hellslittlestangel says:

    Well, I’d rather have Franken in the Senate than Seder on MSNBC (no offense to Seder), but I’ll take what victories I can get.

    John Cole, resist the temptation to dig up intemperate comments made in the past by people criticizing you in this thread. Just do the right thing and resign from Balloon Juice.

    ReplyReply
  40. 40
    GregB says:

    DINO, Douchebag In Name Only Harold Ford has been can for harrassment allegations at Morgan Stanley.

    Hopefully this means he’ll be dumped by NBC.

    Last time I heard his analysis was him opining that Northam would lose VA Gov. election because of MS 13.

    ReplyReply
  41. 41
    GregB says:

    Canned.

    ReplyReply
  42. 42
    tobie says:

    @Ohio Mom: Sorry for my mistake. I just crossed all my digits for your husband. When this is all over, can OhioDad come visit this forum? We’ll be super nice for a change.

    ReplyReply
  43. 43
  44. 44
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Yashar Ali 🐘@yashar

    SCOOP: Former Democratic Congressman Harold Ford Jr. has been terminated for misconduct by Morgan Stanley. I spoke to one of his alleged victims.

    9:33 AM – 7 Dec 2017

    BWHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHHA

    Well, Harold is always scolding Dems to be more like repugs and I guess he personally took it too far.

    ReplyReply
  45. 45

    @hellslittlestangel: Come on, saying

    I never wanted Al Franken to resign. Can you all not read?

    is just begging for somebody to look up the recent post where he said Al Franken should resign.

    ReplyReply
  46. 46
    germy says:

    Hours into Don Jr.’s House Intel interview, sources tell ABC that Jr.’s lawyers asked how many more questions the committee had. Schiff apparently retorted that Clinton had sat for 11 hours when questioned by Gowdy and they were nowhere near that point. https://t.co/KzXy6yiQ4l— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) December 7, 2017

    ReplyReply
  47. 47
    BellyCat says:

    Here’s some “reality-based thought”.

    Check out this chart on criminal activities of the Executive Branch from Nixon onward. (Source: PBS)

    Republicans have been dining on “tire irons and anthrax” for a long, long, time. And now that they’ve opened fast food chains across America, generously serving these delectables to the “ever economically anxious” WWC, ya’ gotta wonder why Democrats are STILL dreaming of a make-up dinner, consisting of teddy bears and unicorns.

    Reality… WTF!?!

    ReplyReply
  48. 48
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Andy Lack, Mike Cernovich, Roger Stone, and James O’Keefee walk into a bar.

    Bartender sees them, and says “What will it be, wretched scumbags?”

    ReplyReply
  49. 49
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @BellyCat: And that lackwit Wilmer buys into it.

    ReplyReply
  50. 50
    germy says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Slaughterhouse-Five is being made into a TV show

    And Catch-22.
    Colonel Cathcart will be played by George Clooney, who I believe is also producing or directing.

    ReplyReply
  51. 51
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    This cracked me up

    sebastian gawker‏Verified account @ libbycwatson
    Replying to DonaldJTrumpJr
    not even your dad likes you dude

    @Major Major Major Major: yeah, but a flame thread between Cole and his own commenters would be some awesome, old-school Balloon Juice, from the time before he found twitter

    ETA: Todd Zwillich for some reason is wasting air time interviewing Joe Walsh
    “Trump support isn’t a race thing, it’s just a coincidence that white voters long for the America that used to be”

    ReplyReply
  52. 52
    laura says:

    Point of correction – the phrase is “eat a bag of salted dicks.”
    I’m livid, fucking LIVID, of the demand that Al Franken resign without more than allegations of improper conduct.
    Chucking Due Process over the side,in hast, in panic does a gross disservice to our Constitution and the rights thereunder.
    ACORN. Shirely Sherrod. Al Franken.
    How easy is it for us to demand someone else sacrafice a right and then expect it to be there when you need them.
    If we are so quick to give up our Constitution and the rights that have served this country well, then mob rule is the likely outcome.

    ReplyReply
  53. 53
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @GregB: Who’s gonna be Mike and Blows “black friend” (photo)

    ReplyReply
  54. 54
    BellyCat says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: But only if the teddy bears and unicorns were free-range and organically certified.

    ReplyReply
  55. 55
    germy says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    *** Update ***

    Apparently it is of major importance that I note that I no longer think Franken should resign given the events of the day. My opinion was based on his bullshit first response. Things changed.

    – Cole

    ReplyReply
  56. 56
    The Moar You Know says:

    In addition to being the right thing to do, it also provides a precedent that actions taken based on false information can be walked back.

    @Repatriated: Franken cannot “unquit” the Senate. That ship has sailed.

    ReplyReply
  57. 57
    oatler. says:

    @Major Major Major Major: “You won’t believe what Valarie Perrine looks like now!!”

    ReplyReply
  58. 58
    Yarrow says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Wow. That is good news. He’s an ass.

    ReplyReply
  59. 59
    Aleta says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I found this from May:

    In a plea deal with prosecutors, former South Carolina police officer Michael Slager admitted to using excessive force in the 2015 shooting death of Walter Scott.

    … In a reversal from his previous account, Slager admitted in court Tuesday that he did not shoot Scott in self-defense and said that his use of force was unreasonable.

    With his family and Scott’s family present, Slager pleaded guilty Tuesday in US District Court in Charleston to a federal charge of deprivation of rights under the color of law. In exchange for the plea, state murder charges, as well as two other federal charges, will be dismissed.

    The civil rights offense has a maximum penalty of life in prison.

    The plea agreement states that the government will ask the court to apply sentencing guidelines for second degree murder, which carries up to 25 years in prison. He was taken into custody after the hearing and will remain there until sentencing later this year.

    Scott’s mother said the sentence mattered little to her now that Slager had admitted responsibility.

    “What made me feel good about it is that Michael Slager admitted what he did. That was enough years for me,” she said in response to the question how much time she wanted Slager to serve.

    “No matter how many years Michael Slager gets, it would not bring back my son,” she said. “This is a victory for Walter. This is justice for the family, but this is just the beginning.”

    ReplyReply
  60. 60
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    @laura:

    Yeah, I stridently called for Franken to resign and I thought the parody would be obvious because no adult could be so fucking stupid as to think that was the right thing to do.

    But the current democratic party and its parade of purity poniesis simply beyond parody at this point, I guess.

    ReplyReply
  61. 61
    ruemara says:

    @Aleta: I am sick & tired of black folks having to do this public forgiveness bullshit. He deserves life but this is the best we can get and probably more than we could have expected. Some smattering of justice.
    Glad it’s not me, because there is no mercy here. My words to him would be seek the Lord, he’s the one who can forgive you.

    ReplyReply
  62. 62

    @germy:

    Colonel Cathcart will be played by George Clooney, who I believe is also producing or directing.

    I guess you could say he’s… promoting Major Major Major Major. 😎

    ReplyReply
  63. 63
    hellslittlestangel says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Meh. “in my opinion, Franken should probably resign” is more of a waist-grab than an ass-grab.

    ReplyReply
  64. 64
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @The Moar You Know: he can, if MN Dems react to what happened the way the people here are, he can run in 11 months and win in a landslide

    @germy: my idea would be more fun

    ReplyReply
  65. 65
    piratedan says:

    @Swannie: no, its just less than perfect, made up of people who generally believe in the same things we do but don;t always come here to get the approved Balloon Juice course of action advice that they ought to….

    while I believe that Franken’s resignation is a less than optimal choice, it bleeds into that mob metality… if we’re a nation of laws and we believe that they should be followed, then Franken deserved to have the charges reviewed by the ethics committee.. maybe we find out that he’s actually too handsy, perhaps less than optimal in his interactions with women or we find out that this is just another GOP ratfuck.

    but does this mean that I won’t continue to support Dems over the GOP… no, but do I wish that we adhered to our principals rather than letting the media push the agenda, damn straight

    ReplyReply
  66. 66
    germy says:

    If we don’t have information on how many sexual harassment claims and settlements have occurred in the Senate—and how much money has been spent—it’ll be hard to take appropriate action to ensure accountability. I’m asking for this data so we can grasp the extent of the problem. pic.twitter.com/DtZR6JCojM— Tim Kaine (@timkaine) December 7, 2017

    ReplyReply
  67. 67
    NotMax says:

    Somberly noting the 74th anniversary*, two years after Pearl Harbor, of a staggering WW2 aerial disaster over and on Maui.

    *maybe also on Dec. 7, maybe not – reported dates vary

    It happened in 1943, at the height of World War II. Two U.S. Navy Dauntless dive bombers collided somewhere over Haiku. Both pilots manage to bail out and survived, but each of their rear-seat gunners died in the collision. That would have been bad enough, except the planes were also carrying live ordnance.

    “A bomb from one of the two planes in collision fell and detonated among a force of Marines participating in field maneuvers nearby,” stated the terse press release sent out by the Navy’s Commander-in-Chief of the Pacific (CINCPAC) five days later. “Twenty Marines were killed and twenty-nine were injured.”

    ReplyReply
  68. 68
    Mom Says I*m Handsome says:

    far-right provocateur Mike Cernovich

    I’m waiting for the word “asshole” to be socially acceptable, so the media can stop with these fancy-ass substitutions. They’re not provocateurs, scoundrels, rascals, rogues, or miscreants; they’re good ole fashioned ASSHOLES.

    ReplyReply
  69. 69
    patroclus says:

    Wow. A liberal media hack keeps his job. But an effective U.S. Senator gets lynch mobbed out of town on a rail. Such good news….

    ReplyReply
  70. 70
    MomSense says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    That sounds about right. I think it took about three hours just to prepare my dad to have his aorta repaired. Sending a big hug. We are all sending our best to you and Ohio Dad.

    ReplyReply
  71. 71
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    @hellslittlestangel:
    Not a consoling back pat???

    ReplyReply
  72. 72

    @germy: Cole used the word ‘never’ above.

    ReplyReply
  73. 73
    Lapassionara says:

    Now that Speaker Ryan has announced his intention to steal money from SS and Medicare to fill the hole in the deficit that will be caused by the Tax Scam Bill, can someone point me to a place where I can get information on protests, etc? I think we should be taking the streets on this, before it comes up for a vote again.

    I am truly sorry about Franken, and pissed too, but there are horrors in front of us that I want to try to mitigate.

    ReplyReply
  74. 74
    ruemara says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I’d hit you with a wet noodle for that.

    ReplyReply
  75. 75
    Ohio Mom says:

    Hip hip hooray!
    Surgery went fine!
    Thanks for all the support!
    Couldn’t have done without it!

    ReplyReply
  76. 76
    Ian G. says:

    Mike Cernovich is the kind of person, if I found out he had been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, I would cheer. Some people are too horrible to deserve anything but the worst.

    ReplyReply
  77. 77
    BellyCat says:

    @Ohio Mom: Congratulations!!!

    ReplyReply
  78. 78
    MomSense says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    YES!!!!

    ReplyReply
  79. 79
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Aleta: The Jurors who voted to aquit this scumbag should be ashamed of themselves. But probably are not, as they’re racist fucks.

    ReplyReply
  80. 80
    Yarrow says:

    @Ohio Mom: Yay! Good news. When do you get to see Ohio Dad? Does he spend time in the hospital or are they sending him home? These days seems like they send people home really quickly.

    ReplyReply
  81. 81
  82. 82
    Cacti says:

    How many votes in the Senate does Sam Seder have?

    ReplyReply
  83. 83
    eclare says:

    @Ohio Mom: Good news!

    ReplyReply
  84. 84
    John Cole says:

    Saying in your opinion someone should resign does not mean you want them to nor is it creating a pile-on.

    ReplyReply
  85. 85
    Aleta says:

    @Ohio Mom: Good for him. Good on you. May recovery go quickly.

    ReplyReply
  86. 86
    sharl says:

    @Ohio Mom: Excellent news! 😌😀👍
    Best wishes for a complete and speedy recovery.

    ReplyReply
  87. 87
    KS in MA says:

    @Ohio Mom: Fantastic!!!!

    ReplyReply
  88. 88
    Aleta says:

    @Major Major Major Major: @Major Major Major Major: I don’t see where this (at your link) says “I want Franken to resign” or anything that suggests rejoicing if he does.

    I’m not sure how there is an innocent explanation for this (the photo), and unless and until I see one with some corroborating statements from the photographer or others, in my opinion, Franken should probably resign.

    *** Update ***

    Apparently it is of major importance that I note that I no longer think Franken should resign given the events of the day. My opinion was based on his bullshit first response. Things changed.

    ReplyReply
  89. 89

    @John Cole: I would say that it’s both of those, but I also don’t really care, I just wanted to contribute that post to the argument.

    @Aleta: Thinking somebody ‘should’ do something is the same as wanting them to do it. If you think the best outcome would be somebody doing something, then you want them to do it. If you don’t think the best outcome is them doing something, then why would you think they should do it?

    ETA: try this sentence out and see if it makes sense to you. “I don’t want Franken to resign, but I think he should.” Doesn’t work for me. Contra that, “I want Franken to resign, but I don’t think he should” makes about as much sense.

    ReplyReply
  90. 90
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    I watched RT News monday night and it’s turned into Fox News.

    They were freaking out over the Flynn arrest, trashing Muller, praising Trump, even pushed the ugly Seth Rich conspiracy.

    Such panicked behavior by parties who insist they’re innocent.

    ReplyReply
  91. 91
    Tenar Arha says:

    @Ohio Mom:
    TFW you’re like this for someone’s good news.
    Congratulations and wishing Ohio Dad a speedy recovery.

    ReplyReply
  92. 92
    No One You Know says:

    @Ohio Mom: My family’s like yours. A prayer is all I have, so I’ll offer one: Thank you, Lord, for bringing us into this day. Bless the healers hands on Ohio Dad, mend what’s broken, uphold what’s whole, and may your peace surround Ohio Mom and her friends who stand by her in this ordeal. Glory to you whose power, working in us, can do more than we can ask or imagine. Forgive us when we ask the wrong things, and bless us. Amen.

    ReplyReply
  93. 93
    Aleta says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I think when the context is politics (or for hasty example, maybe something like an Academy Award) we distinguish. Or, say, (not thought out, but) “I want you to stay home this weekend, but you should go to that conference for the sake of your career.”

    ReplyReply
  94. 94
    Elizabelle says:

    I’d be OK with Seder gone and Franken carrying on in the Senate.

    Especially since MSNBC is part of NBC corporate, which is the devil. The devil.

    ReplyReply
  95. 95

    @Ohio Mom: Oh good. Take a big breath and then have a nice glass of wine.

    ReplyReply
  96. 96
    TenguPhule says:

    But Al Franken is not going to get his Senate seat back.

    But acceptable losses, AMIRITE, Democrats? //

    ReplyReply
  97. 97
    Yutsano says:

    @Ohio Mom: WOOOT!!!!

    ReplyReply
  98. 98
    Duane says:

    @laura: So we now live in a new world of sexual mores. That’s fine. Needs to be done. Franken resigns, and still an admitted predator sits in the White House. How can that be acceptable. Alabama is likely to send a predator to the Senate. Enough of the IOKIYAR crap. Apply the same standards to everyone, or go to hell hypocrites.

    ReplyReply
  99. 99
    TenguPhule says:

    @Thoroughly Pizzled:

    My goal is to destroy the GOP and elevate the Democratic Party

    Then Frankenly, you’re Bloody Terrible at it.

    ReplyReply
  100. 100
    TenguPhule says:

    @Swannie:

    The Democrat party is a flaming dumpster fire.

    Don’t insult honest dumpster fires.

    ReplyReply
  101. 101
    Cacti says:

    Seriously though, this great news.

    On the day Dems threw one of the most effective liberal voices in Congress under the bus…

    A bloviating media gas bag got his job back!

    WINNING!

    ReplyReply
  102. 102
    tobie says:

    I kinda wonder how many contributions Doug Jones will rake in today. How many phone calls will be made on his behalf? How many doors will be knocked on by his campaign? The base feels sucker punched right now. The GOP must be enjoying how demoralized the Dem base is going into an important special election.

    ReplyReply
  103. 103

    @Aleta: I thought of that a second ago while ruminating on this. The way I would phrase something like that is “I want Franken to not have to resign, but I think he should” or a similar construction. When it’s just the want-vs.-should construction, it leaves me (the reader) scrambling to come up with a way that they aren’t synonymous, which is a suboptimal communication strategy.

    I’m fully aware that I’m careless with words too, but while I’m down in the weeds I might as well play.

    ReplyReply
  104. 104
    Aleta says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    “I want the Green Party to win. But if it looks like they can’t, I probably should vote for Al Gore so that Bush doesn’t win.”

    ReplyReply
  105. 105

    @Cacti: @Cacti: You can’t possibly be stupid enough to think anybody here is saying the two are equivalent.

    ReplyReply
  106. 106
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Mom Says I*m Handsome: known ne’er do well? (h/t Barney Miller)

    ReplyReply
  107. 107
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Is BJ tab crashing for people? It has crashed thrice in the last half hour for me. Windows 10 Professional edition and Firefox.

    Increasingly unstable and eating up RAM in chrome. I blame the fucking ads again.

    ReplyReply
  108. 108
    dimmsdale says:

    OK, here’s a question relating back to the original post about MSNBC: Does anyone in the esteemed commentariat here know of a progressive organization that is wielding EFFECTIVE pushback against the media, e.g. in regard to Seder, or any of the skillion other media mapractices (discussion panels stuffed with right wing appatatchiks and no prog participation, or news readers adoping Republican frames e.g. ‘tax relief’, or news’ anchors’ incidental chitchat that betraying a right-wing mindset that is aching for correction)?

    Here’s why I ask: Back in the suburbs where I grew up there was ONE guy who was so right wing, even the local R establishment rolled their eyes at him, he really was SO ‘out there’. BUT—every single time this guy heard a cuss word on TV, he would mobilize a cadre of letter-writers and they’d send bagsful of letters of complaint to the FCC. And you know what? the networks were terrified of this guy, because he made a difference.

    This whole thread has been about a lot of random topics, but one DEFINITE thing I’d like to do is join an effective media pushback apparatus, so I’d be grateful if anyone can suggest some such.

    Also, I’d like to joint an organization that is sussing out, targeting, and demanding changes from, SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS in the Democratic Party national apparatus, pollsters and messagers, who have done such a piss-poor job of communicating our values. It would need to be organized, focused, and so distinct and forceful that it couldn’t be ignored. Anybody know of a group like that?

    It’s really hard to put one’s faith (as we are being forced, by circumstance, to do) in such a lackluster messenger as the Democratic Party turns out to be. I’d love to help change that—I think George Lakoff has talked about this, he’s trying to start a ‘Citizens Communication Network’ along those lines, but I can’t find anything out there about it.

    Anybody got any ideas?

    (Oh, and Ohio Mom: YAYYYYYYYY!!!!)

    ReplyReply
  109. 109

    edit: composing better reply

    ReplyReply
  110. 110
    PJ says:

    @John Cole: I guess it all depends on what your definition of “is” is.

    To be pedantic, the most typical usage of “should” is that one believes this is the correct course of action. If the writer believes that, despite the action being correct, he or she actually disagrees with that action, that has to be expressed, because otherwise a reader, like myself, will think that the writer wants to see that thing happen.

    But I see that Majorx4 has already made this point.

    ReplyReply
  111. 111
    MomSense says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    The night my stepmom snuck some white wine into the hospital for us was one of the best mother daughter bonding experiences ever. It was only a little bit but we had a lot to celebrate.

    ReplyReply
  112. 112

    @Aleta:

    “I want the Green Party to win. But if it looks like they can’t, I probably should vote for Al Gore so that Bush doesn’t win.”

    Let’s make the analogous statement:

    “I don’t want Al Franken to resign. But if it looks like [proposition x], Al Franken should resign so that [not proposition y].”

    First off, we haven’t defined propositions x or y here, so it’s hard to consider them equivalent statements.

    Second: are you saying that this Green Party supporter does not want to vote for Gore? I would say that they don’t want to have to vote for Gore, but since they do have to and are, then they want to.

    ReplyReply
  113. 113
    Doug R says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Especially since MSNBC is part of NBC corporate, which is the devil. The devil.

    Ever since Sheinhardt wigs sold them to Kabletown, they’ve gotten worse

    ReplyReply
  114. 114
    Aleta says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Yeah, true, I know what you mean. What’s unfair is when we (and we all do it automatically sometimes) jump over the imprecision and use our personal reaction as the base for an insult. Since allowance for error is part of accuracy.

    ReplyReply
  115. 115
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    Uh, yeah, the backfilling going here is not very persuasive.

    “OMG, there has been an allegation by a single person, he should resign.”

    Two more women come forward: “He’s done, time to move on.”

    5 more women come forward: “I never wanted him to resign. My saying he should have resigned was my initial take and things have changed since then.”

    Yeah, the only thing that has changed is that 7 more women have come forward. Oh, and Franken released a more heartfelt apology shortly after you said he should have resigned.

    So the needle being threaded here is “Yes, he should have resigned after his first lame statement. His second statement changed that. The 7 additional accusers don’t matter. … ”

    No.

    ReplyReply
  116. 116
    Nicole says:

    @Nicole: Ugh; I went away from the computer before seeing I had thoroughly messed up the blockquote function in my post. Apologies.

    ReplyReply
  117. 117
    geg6 says:

    So…MSNBC has better management skills than any of the Dems in the US Senate. Lucky for Sam, MSNBC can do backsies after an investigation showed they acted hastily and with no thought of any sort of process. Sadly, Senator Franken will not have that luxury.

    FUCK, FUCK, FUCK, FUCKITY FUCK!!!

    I despise this country and just about everyone in it at this point.

    ReplyReply
  118. 118
    Aleta says:

    @Major Major Major Major: good points. thanks.

    ReplyReply
  119. 119
    Schlemazel says:

    @John Cole:
    I never attacked you over Franken but I would like to clarify one thing. Al was not done in Minnesota. He has a record of constituent service that is unmatched & won over a lot of Republicans here who would have voted for him again after the investigation showed there was no there there. He never wanted to be President & made that clear. He could have been a great Senator for as long as he could tolerate it. Minnesota is in mourning today

    ReplyReply
  120. 120
    different-church-lady says:

    Hey folks, Cole was the first one to realize that EMAILZZZZZZ!!!!!! was going to be converted into a world of pain, back when we all thought nothingburger.

    Me, I’m going to start listening to his instincts — he has a record of better insights into the workings of ratfucker brains and deplorable guts than any of us.

    ReplyReply
  121. 121
    Cacti says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Hey folks, Cole was the first one to realize that EMAILZZZZZZ!!!!!! was going to be converted into a world of pain.

    Me, I’m going to start listening to his instincts — he has a record of better insights into the workings of ratfucker brains and deplorable guts than any of us.

    Cole also believed Edward Snowden was a whistle blowing patriot.

    ReplyReply
  122. 122
    Schlemazel says:

    @Thoroughly Pizzled:
    you picked a good nym – now sober up asshole

    ReplyReply
  123. 123
    jhtrotter says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):

    Gives new meaing to a LEO getting their 20 in…

    ReplyReply
  124. 124
    different-church-lady says:

    Hey, we lost a senator, but we gained back a pundit! High-five!

    ReplyReply
  125. 125
    different-church-lady says:

    @Cacti: OK, you got me there.

    ReplyReply
  126. 126
    Trollhattan says:

    @sharl:
    That’s right up there with “We’ll bomb them to the peace table.”

    ReplyReply
  127. 127
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Ohio Mom:
    We’re all relieved to hear that. Rest up and get well soon, Ohio Dad.

    ReplyReply
  128. 128
    SWMBO says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s the message that due process is for losers. It’s the idea that if you run as a Democrat, if something comes up, the party won’t have your back. You are fucked and on your own. Now explain how that’s going to work in getting good Democrats to run for office. For every office. Because the Republicans sure as hell would run a child molester rather than give up a chance to win. Franken won reelection and was ratfucked out of office. Other Democrats did the work of the Republican party and took him down for them. WASF and it’s our own doing.
    Someone said last night that this means BOTH Senate seats are up for grabs in Minnesota now. Plus the governor’s office and most of the lege. Won’t that be fun to try to get good people to run now?
    Any of you thinking that Roy Moore wins next week and will face the Senate Ethics Committee now are delusional. Turtle will seat him and we lost an important voice. No due process for Franken and none for Moore.

    ReplyReply
  129. 129
    different-church-lady says:

    @SWMBO: You know what happens when you don’t fight a rat fuck?

    You get fucked, and everyone thinks you’re a rat.

    ReplyReply
  130. 130
    SWMBO says:

    @Ohio Mom: Oh that is good news! Congrats to all! May the rest of the day be as awesome.

    ReplyReply
  131. 131
    Trollhattan says:

    @Cacti:
    Moar important: how many divisions?

    ReplyReply
  132. 132
    Trollhattan says:

    @Ohio Mom:
    Wonderful!

    ReplyReply
  133. 133
    debit says:

    @Schlemazel: You speak for me.

    ReplyReply
  134. 134
    Mnemosyne says:

    @different-church-lady:

    he has a record of better insights into the workings of ratfucker brains and deplorable guts than any of us

    My spouse is the same way — it’s like he’s still faintly attached to the white male asshole Borg even though he left them many, many years ago.

    Now if only we can get them to tell us how to derail a ratfuck before it gains momentum rather than only being able to identify one that’s been rolled out. 🤔

    ReplyReply
  135. 135
    debit says:

    @Schlemazel: Also, Franken and his wife shop at the downtown Minneapolis Lund’s. I hope I see him in person sometime when I’m getting groceries so I can tell him in person how much I admire him and wish him well.

    ReplyReply
  136. 136
    TenguPhule says:

    @SWMBO: Cosigned.

    ReplyReply
  137. 137
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Now if only we can get them to tell us how to derail a ratfuck before it gains momentum rather than only being able to identify one that’s been rolled out.

    Adam Silverman gave us plenty of warning this was coming.

    Not against Franken specifically, but we were warned.

    ReplyReply
  138. 138
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Cacti:

    Same thing, actually — he identified something that spoke directly to the white dudebro lizard brain.

    I don’t think DCL is saying that Cole is right in his political analysis of this stuff, just that he’s a useful barometer for what the ratfuckers are going to get traction with.

    ReplyReply
  139. 139
    different-church-lady says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    just that he’s a useful barometer for what the ratfuckers are going to get traction with.

    That’s more accurate than what I was trying to say.

    ReplyReply
  140. 140
    HeleninEire says:

    @Ohio Mom: WOO HOO!!!! YAY OHIO DAD!!

    ReplyReply
  141. 141
    Kathleen says:

    @Ohio Mom:[[[[[[hugs]]]]]]]]] Hang in therr. He will be fine.

    ReplyReply
  142. 142
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Kamala Harris. Do. Not. Nominate. Her. in. 2020.

    You have been warned.

    ReplyReply
  143. 143
    amygdala says:

    @Ohio Mom: Woo! Fingers tightly crossed for a speedy and uneventful recovery.

    ReplyReply
  144. 144
    SgrAstar says:

    @Ohio Mom: Breathe deep, OM, breathe deep. ❤️

    ReplyReply
  145. 145
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    Yay! Best wishes for a speedy recovery now.

    ReplyReply
  146. 146
    SWMBO says:

    @TenguPhule: And it’s not over. They collected their scalp and now they can go after someone else. And these same Democrats will fold again. You can’t give these ratfuckers an inch. And we will be on defense until they gut social security, Medicare and Medicaid. They will stack the courts and laugh at calls for ethics investigations on them.

    ReplyReply
  147. 147
    WaterGirl says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    She said something like, now is not the time to draw distinctions. I prefer Joy Reid’s formulation: If everything is the same, nothing matters.

    Now is exactly the time to draw distinctions, before the Republicans finish blurring the lines until nothing means anything.

    I had not heard that quote from Joy Reid, but I love it.

    ReplyReply
  148. 148
    WaterGirl says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Wow, good luck with that. Vonnegut was my favorite writer for years and years, I can’t imagine how you would make a TV series out of it. More power to them if they can do it.

    ReplyReply
  149. 149
    NeutronFlux says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Give it a rest. Come up for air. Take a deep breath. Chill.

    ReplyReply
  150. 150
    Cckids says:

    @ruemara: This. I am continually gobsmacked by people doing this and/or others asking if they have forgiven. WTF. Maybe I’m hardhearted, but . . . Never. Never. Never.
    I’m with Kesha here “There are some things only God can forgive “.

    ReplyReply
  151. 151
    cameraguy says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Huh. I don’t want a lot of things to happen that probably should happen. I don’t want a doctor to shove a camera up my ass every 5 years, but he probably should. I don’t want my least favorite sports team to win any games, but they probably should. I don’t want mosquitoes and cockroaches to exist, but they probably should.

    In general, people who think the only things that should happen are the things they want to happen are either toddlers or sociopaths.

    ReplyReply
  152. 152
    The Lodger says:

    @Ohio Mom: Great news! It isn’t over yet but you got through the hard part. My best to Ohio Dad and the rest of the tribe.

    ReplyReply
  153. 153
    Gravenstone says:

    @Ohio Mom: Late to the thread, but my mother underwent a mitral valve replacement ca. 30 years ago. That was quite a drawn out procedure as well, which we were aware of the potential for going in. So I would suggest not being too alarmed (I know, easy for me to say) about the extended surgery time.

    ReplyReply
  154. 154
    Gravenstone says:

    @Ohio Mom: And I post just in time for your updated good news. Now comes the “fun part” of recovery. With added bonus that (depending on valve style), your husband may now “tick” for the rest of his life.

    ReplyReply
  155. 155
    LanceThruster says:

    Standing your ground when you’re in the right is an essential lesson Dems need to learn these days, it seems.

    ReplyReply
  156. 156
    Cckids says:

    @Schlemazel: Is there any chance of him running for Governor? Your current gov is term limited, yes?

    ReplyReply
  157. 157
    WaterGirl says:

    @Ohio Mom: So happy for you!

    ReplyReply
  158. 158
    Ohio Mom says:

    When we finally got to talk to Ohio Dad’s heart surgeon and learn that everything went as planned, I remarked that it had been a long surgery.

    “Oh, I was done an hour ago. I had paperwork to finish before I left the room.”

    File this under, Moments I could have hit someone.

    Well, we hired him for his eye-hand coordination, not for his manners.

    ReplyReply
  159. 159
    debit says:

    @Cckids: No term limit.

    ReplyReply
  160. 160
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Ohio Mom: “Oh, I was done an hour ago. I had paperwork to finish before I left the room.”

    Oh my god. I’ve heard similar stuff as my dad has been in and out of the hospital over the past few years. You want to ask them, “Do you know any people? like, humans? Were you hatched from a pod last week?”

    ReplyReply
  161. 161
    Ohio Mom says:

    @tobie: Ohio Dad is Charlie Pierce guy — go figure!

    He did come with me to the Cincinnati meetup a couple of months ago and liked everyone.

    ReplyReply
  162. 162
    JaneSays says:

    Firing Andrew Lack would probably have to come from Comcast Executive VP Steve Burke, who also serves as CEO of NBCUniversal. Nobody within the entire NBC News umbrella (which includes both the broadcast network and MSNBC) has the power to fire Lack, as he is the highest ranking official in the division.

    No idea where Burke’s politics lie.

    ReplyReply
  163. 163
    TenguPhule says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    “Oh, I was done an hour ago. I had paperwork to finish before I left the room.”

    Be fair. If he fucks up the paperwork, he might not get paid. Or his patient might wind up with the wrong after care instructions.

    ReplyReply
  164. 164
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @JaneSays: No idea where Burke’s politics lie.

    Since Lack was rumored to be Matt Lauer’s patron/ally at NBC, and since I’ll shocked, and disappointed, if there aren’t major lawsuits heading NBC’s way (to say nothing of a criminal indictment for Lauer), I imagine politics might not be the deciding factor

    ReplyReply
  165. 165
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Yes, I have had to go to Crome.

    ReplyReply
  166. 166
    Miss Bianca says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: right there with you. I love my local Democrats and I’ll keep working with them but I am really hating the Democratic brand right now.

    @Ohio Mom: hope all is well!

    ReplyReply
  167. 167
    Miss Bianca says:

    @hellslittlestangel: God damn it, I can’t believe you made me laugh about this shitshow.

    ReplyReply
  168. 168
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Same thing, actually — he identified something that spoke directly to the white dudebro lizard brain.

    Except it wasn’t the white dudebro lizard brain that did Franken in, it was that collective woman’s senate lizard brain that decided at the first accusation to overturn the will of the voters of the state of Minnesota because Franken was a monster out to eat the babies.

    It’s like with this MSNBC reporter – yes, these dorks quote mined him, but it was the idiot managers at MSNBC who let themselves get panicked into a terminate first, ask question later if at all, state of mind.

    ReplyReply
  169. 169
    Duane says:

    @TenguPhule: If the hospital’s system won’t allow for someone to inform the family quickly, they need a different system.

    ReplyReply
  170. 170
    Aleta says:

    @ruemara: The forgiveness part upset me, and I felt like leaving it out of the quote box. Then I thought, she has the. right to be represented in the news by her own words.

    But I blame the reporter for representing her only with that quote. Maybe she had nothing else to say the press, but the reporter still had obligation to write more words that would respectfully represent her and her family, instead of leaving so much weight on that quote as though it summed it up.
    If not, hire a different reporter who is able to do that.

    ReplyReply
  171. 171
    TenguPhule says:

    @Duane: That would be the hospital, not the doctor.

    ReplyReply
  172. 172
    Duane says:

    @TenguPhule: To the anxious family, that’s a distinction without a difference. A different, better system should allow for the families concerns.

    ReplyReply
  173. 173
    Ohio Mom says:

    @No One You Know: that’s a beautiful prayer.

    ReplyReply
  174. 174
    fuckwit says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Those good old days… of Emmett Till…

    There’s a damn good reason why black folks don’t really do nostalgia, and they give white folks the side-eye when we get all misty eyed about the old days.

    ReplyReply

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