More on Al

Might be a good idea to listen to your female colleagues, Senator Franken.

586 replies
  1. 1
    rikyrah says:

    Re Franken:

    Banana in the tailpipe.

    EVERYTIME I read one of his ‘ incidents’, I go ‘ REALLY’?

    Shyt don’t make sense.

    Let me make this clear, in care you don’t see it.

    THEY WANT FRANKEN TO RESIGN BECAUSE FRANKEN ASKED FOR AN ETHICS INVESTIGATION.

    IFFFF Franken Resigns, then NO Ethics Investigation.

    If there is a FRANKEN Ethics Investigation, then how the phuck you NOT gonna have a ROY MOORE ETHICS INVESTIGATION (if he gets elected)?

    See the Banana in the Tailpipe, you craven, weak muthaphuckas!

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  2. 2
    TenguPhule says:

    FUCK NO.

    Franken stays in the Senate.

    I am sick and tired of Democratic Circular Firing Squads!

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  3. 3
    rikyrah says:

    The Democrats get played EVERY PHUCKING TIME!!

    HAVE A GODDAMNED SPINE!

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  4. 4
    Trentrunner Reckoning says:

    I called for Conyers’ resignation. Some of y’all were defensive, and even personally insulting. But I was right, and Conyers has resigned.

    I called for Franken’s resignation. Even worse invective hurled at me.

    But I was right, and Franken will resign soon.

    And you defended these harassers and assaulters.

    Worth reflecting on the part you play, however small, in women not coming forward because THEY WON’T BE BELIEVED.

    We must have values that trump tribalism.

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  5. 5
    Soprano2 says:

    I worry about this “always believe the women” stuff because of the way it can be weaponized, and I’m a woman! The Al Franken accusations have never rung “true” to me the way the rest of them have. Our “good guys” will quit, Republicans who are accused will just deny it and stay, and we’ll be poorer for it. Let the investigation proceed, then make a judgment.

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  6. 6
    Campionrules says:

    A 7th accuser is clearly a bridge to far! 6 or less…eh. but a 7th! Time for a carefully, not at all coordinated, press release from our valiant female collegues in the Senate.

    Franken should have been toast the minute their were multiple accusations. But you know, lying Republican Sluts, the pic was photoshopped!!! Yadda yadda yadda

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  7. 7
    BobbyK says:

    Senator Franken should not resign. Let the investigation complete and see what the findings are. This guilty until proven innocent shit has got to stop.

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  8. 8
    Raoul says:

    This thing seems to stink. Another claim, this time the day after Conyers (appropriately!) announces his departure, and more to the point of possible ratf-king, the day after Ronna Romney McDaniel and her RNC re-endorse serial teen-predating Roy Moore.
    Maybe Franken really does have a problem. I obviously don’t know. But like rikyah, so far this whole setup stinks.
    Franken is one of the top advocates for Net Neutrality. 🤔
    Franken has gone after Sessions very effectively. 🤔
    And after the total bullshit of MSNBC firing one of their people this week over one misinterpreted tweet pushed relentlessly by moral trash heap Cernovitch.
    This. Thing. Smells. Of. Rats.

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  9. 9
    rikyrah says:

    @Soprano2:

    I worry about this “always believe the women” stuff because of the way it can be weaponized, and I’m a woman! The Al Franken accusations have never rung “true” to me the way the rest of them have. Our “good guys” will quit, Republicans who are accused will just deny it and stay, and we’ll be poorer for it. Let the investigation proceed, then make a judgment.

    PUT.THEM.UNDER.OATH.

    Let the investigation happen.

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  10. 10
    Cacti says:

    “While he’s entitled to an ethics committee hearing, he should step aside before we know if any of the allegations against him are actually true.”

    -Kirsten Gillibrand (D – for dumbass)

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  11. 11
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    The thing about Franken is that that photograph of him exists. He was being a jerk, but a jerk in a particular way. Now that his female colleagues are calling on him to resign, I think it’s time. Some male senators are now calling for him to resign.

    At some point, the trouble he causes to the Democratic Party is too much. Granted there’s not as much there as there is against Roy Moore, but it’s not possible to damp down the furore.

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  12. 12
    TenguPhule says:

    Gillibrand and Hirono. Please kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THIS.

    The investigation hasn’t even fucking started. You want to condemn him without evidence, without trial, meanwhile the fucking Republicans ARE TRYING TO KILL AND IMPOVERISH US ALL.

    And this why I am not confident about 2018. The party’s representatives has learned absolutely nothing from 2016.

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  13. 13
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    I believe the women*

    Except when it’s politically advantageous not to

    For everyone who has wondered “How did Weinstein get away with his shit for so long?” Just look around at all the sleazy enabling shitheads who are urging Franken to stay put because they want him in Senate. That kind of cynical calculation —-yeah he’s a predator but he does something to benefit me — is what perpetuates this conduct. Look in the fucking mirror.

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  14. 14
    laura says:

    What is it about Due Process that so offends some?
    AL Franken earned and still has my respect as an elected official. Unless and until he’s been presented with a bill of particulars and has the opportunity to respond and defend himself, those calling for his immediate ouster can STFU.

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  15. 15
    different-church-lady says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Yet somehow the trouble Moore causes the Republican party is not too much.

    What a world.

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  16. 16
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    I’m also wondering if his colleagues who are calling for him to step down know something about his behavior. We’ve undergone a tremendous change just in the past month or two. Behavior that we collectively agreed should be ignored suddenly isn’t. The world looks different.

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  17. 17
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    @different-church-lady: Totally agree. But we don’t want to be the Republican Party.

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  18. 18
    Cacti says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Now that his female colleagues are calling on him to resign, I think it’s time.

    Well, if a female colleague says it’s time, trifling things like guilt and innocence no longer matter.

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  19. 19

    Fuck no. Where is your spine?

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  20. 20
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Now that his female colleagues are calling on him to resign, I think it’s time.

    Yeah no.

    Gillibrand is an idiot.

    Hirono is power seeking idiot leaving the Senate to run for governor.

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  21. 21

    @Cheryl Rofer: No we want to be the permanent minority party.

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  22. 22
    rikyrah says:

    @laura:

    What is it about Due Process that so offends some?

    YES…THIS!

    ReplyReply
  23. 23
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    They’re all piling on now. Franken is done.

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  24. 24
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    But we don’t want to be the Republican Party.

    You want us to be the Quaker party, apparently.

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  25. 25
    tobie says:

    Kellyanne Conway seems to have known this Politico piece was coming. This morning she said on TV that a vote for Moore is fine, since Franken has not been unseated. This is a hit job. We’re falling for it as so many on the left and right fell for the hit job against HRC. Haven’t we learned anything from 2016?

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  26. 26
    Ithink says:

    I ain’t for it until Senator Candidate Addicted-to-Teenage-Girls is either summarily defeated in the upcoming special election or is summarily expelled by the rest of the Republican controlled Congress. And even if either or both these things happens, I want the damn ethics investigation to run its course and let the chips fall where they may. We always have to have ridiculously high (moral & government) standards for Democrats while Republicans utilize the public & private spheres of American life to display the most foul of all human behavior. I just cannot even anymore w/ this both siderist nonsense!!!

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  27. 27
    Dave says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: It’s tough I would like to see the investigation go forward if only to establish that as SOP. Then again GOP will cheerfully ignore that. And as other commentators mentioned “believe all women” will be weaponized. The modern right is nothing if not full of bad faith actors.

    If Franken goes the Democrats damned well need a strategy going forward to deal with the sort of weaponized bad-faith that the GOP will use. I don’t really know what the right and smart response will be to all this.

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  28. 28
    different-church-lady says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I’m having a very hard time navigating my way between the gag being ripped off sexual abuse and the memory of the daycare center witch hunts of the 80s.

    And believe me, this cognitive dissonance is going to be leveraged shamelessly by the deplorables.

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  29. 29
    Raoul says:

    Also, too, the whole project “Veritas” thing at WaPo. 🤔

    Definitely whiffs of O’Keefe-style smell around the Franken allegations.

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  30. 30
    PhoenixRising says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I’m also wondering if his colleagues who are calling for him to step down know something about his behavior.

    Me too

    Specifically I’m wondering if these colleagues are making a political calculation as to what they know that we don’t and the value of ripping off the band aid now.

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  31. 31
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: So Civil War it is then. If our party is truly too stupid to live, might as well burn it all down and start over, AMIRITE?

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  32. 32
    Dave says:

    @Dave: Ultimately it’s very difficult to have a functioning civic society when it rewards bad faith actors.

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  33. 33
    Cacti says:

    @Dave:

    And as other commentators mentioned “believe all women” will be weaponized.

    James O’Keefe got caught red handed trying to do so.

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  34. 34
    SatanicPanic says:

    @rikyrah: Yeah, let’s get Joe Biden to cross-examine them. That was so great last time it happened.

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  35. 35
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    If there’s something to be known about Al Franken’s behaviour towards women, it will come out in the Ethics Committee’s findings, won’t it?

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  36. 36
    campionrules says:

    The evolution of an accused Politician(If Democrat)
    1.) The accuser is a Republican Slut
    2.) The picture(s) are fake/photoshopped/staged
    3.) These other accusers are republican plants/sluts/anonymous women
    4.) No resignation until Trump/Republican Moron resigns first!
    5.) We can’t afford to lose a Democrat the Republicans are trying to murder us all in our beds
    6.) ……..well, maybe this one is ok, because he’ll be replaced by a Democrat Governor
    7.) Profit.

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  37. 37
    Citizen_X says:

    @Amaranthine RBG:

    That kind of cynical calculation

    Oh, fuck you. What the hell is wrong with allowing due process?

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  38. 38
    MJS says:

    @Cacti: If he’s not guilty, then Franken should say so, in no uncertain terms. Not, “I don’t recall it that way”, or “I don’t recall that happening”. He instead needs to say, “This woman/these women are lying in order to get me to resign my seat. I won’t do it. I am fully confident that the investigation will bear out that these women are lying.” That’s all he can do at this point.

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  39. 39
    JMG says:

    @PhoenixRising: They have to know there’s more out there. The Senate is a small place.

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  40. 40
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cacti:

    James O’Keefe got caught red handed trying to do so.

    And it was just last week.

    Apparently it has already vanished down the Democratic memory hole.

    WASF

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  41. 41
    rikyrah says:

    @tobie:

    Kellyanne Conway seems to have known this Politico piece was coming. This morning she said on TV that a vote for Moore is fine, since Franken has not been unseated. This is a hit job. We’re falling for it as so many on the left and right fell for the hit job against HRC. Haven’t we learned anything from 2016?

    Didn’t I confirm for you in the last threat that you weren’t paranoid?

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  42. 42
    Chet says:

    @rikyrah: Just out of curiosity, would this also be your stance if Franken’s accusers were Black women?

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  43. 43
    MomSense says:

    @rikyrah:

    I agree. Again the appropriate response to all of this is you first, Donald.

    Conyers resigned and then Ryan was asked about Farenthold and he deflected.

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  44. 44
    Cacti says:

    @Citizen_X:

    Oh, fuck you. What the hell is wrong with allowing due process?

    It gets in the way of mob justice.

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  45. 45
    Brachiator says:

    Might be a good idea to listen to your female colleagues, Senator Franken.

    I think that Franken should step aside as well. He should step aside a day after Trump resigns.

    Actually, maybe not even then. I don’t know that every incident of alleged harassment is equivalent or that every incident merits the same degree of punishment. It is certainly not the case that every ethical violation by a member of Congress would result in removal from office.

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  46. 46
    PhoenixRising says:

    I’m wondering what party insiders who have worked w/Franken since he left SNL to enter politics might know that we don’t know (yet). Aside from shifting standards, and stipulating that the first accuser was a plant…what else is it best not to drip out week after week?

    Yeah, I’d prefer to burn down the patriarchy today, but since that’s not gonna happen…

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  47. 47
    TenguPhule says:

    @JMG:

    They have to know there’s more out there.

    Or they actually don’t and are just panicking like a flock of headless chickens because an unverified story on top of other unverified stories convinced them that mob justice should be Senate policy.

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  48. 48
    Gin & Tonic says:

    So as of next week we will be faced with a Senator Roy Moore and no Senator Al Franken. So much fucking #WINNING.

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  49. 49
    themann1086 says:

    Honestly super embarrassed to read all the Franken defenses going on here. Didn’t realize we were Breitbart but for the left now…

    ETA: also, the calls for “due process” and “innocent until found guilty in a court of law” ring pretty fucking hollow given that I would hope none of y’all would hold Trump or Moore’s accusers to the same standard. Be better.

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  50. 50
    TenguPhule says:

    @MJS:

    If he’s not guilty, then Franken should say so, in no uncertain terms.

    And this would convince who, exactly?

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  51. 51
    Cookie monster says:

    He’s toast. To me, the accusations are sketchy as hell, but I just don’t see how he survives this.

    I guess the poll numbers for Jones are close enough they think it might help, but IMO sets a bad precedent, as I’m sure the next Dem senator to be accused will be from a state with a GOP Gov.

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  52. 52
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: We had this exact thing happen in San Diego. Bob Filner had been a serial groper for years in Congress, and congressional Dems had covered for him. He then got elected as San Diego Mayor. Us liberals were super excited. FINALLY San Diego was a blue city. FINALLY. But Filner kept on groping, and now that he was here, in our city, not off in DC he couldn’t keep the press off the story. They had a f*cking field day. Guess which major city is back to being the last city in America to have a Republican mayor? San Diego! The party messed up bigtime and I’m glad some people learned their lesson. This only gets worse for Franken. People can complain about witch hunts, or ratf*cking, but the writing is on the wall. He is done.

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  53. 53
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @different-church-lady: Bingo. Let’s ask Tookie Amirault about mob justice.

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  54. 54
    TenguPhule says:

    @themann1086: Show us some FUCKING EVIDENCE and an accuser that isn’t a Republican or an unknown source.

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  55. 55
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @TenguPhule: You really believe that voters in Ohio are going to say to themselves, “Well, I was going to vote for Sherrod Brown, but Al Franken resigned, so I won’t”? Or Rosen voters in Nevada? Or Sinema voters in AZ?

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  56. 56
    john (not mccain) says:

    @Trentrunner Reckoning: Fuck you and every other Trump-lovin’ pervert in the world.

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  57. 57
    Sloane Ranger says:

    I thought that Franken had denied this latest allegation?

    Shouldn’t Dems standard response be all women making allegations deserve a hearing. Franken has already asked for an Ethics investigation into his actions. We await the outcome of that. Roy Moore and President Trump should follow Senator Franken’s example. If they are innocent, as they claim, the investigation will vindicate them?

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  58. 58

    New nyms and old supporters of unilateral surrender out in full force. Daily dose of stupid on Balloon Juice is making stupid. Have fun with your tajiya (ritual Shia’ bloody self flagellation on Moharrum)

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  59. 59
    kindness says:

    I would prefer that Al just say he won’t run again. Especially since Republicans aren’t willing to act the same way to their members. You see, even though I can say I want a Democratic vote in the Senate some might say that is the same as Roy Moore. And it is not the same as Roy Moore. Roy Moore molested a 14 year old girl.

    @Trentrunner Reckoning: Dude you are pretty boastful there. Might I suggest you aren’t right and start from there.

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  60. 60
    VincentN says:

    Al Franken can ignore these requests to step down if he truly believes the investigation will vindicate him.

    In the meantime, the Democrats get credit for condemning sexual misbehavior.

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  61. 61
    trollhattan says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    Add Harris, Hassan, Baldwin and McCaskill to the list. I agree, he’s done. I don’t agree with the process but nobody asked me, either.

    I’m really hating this new govern-by-Twitter thing.

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  62. 62
    TenguPhule says:

    @themann1086: Unlike Franken, there’s actual FUCKING EVIDENCE of Trump and Moore’s bad behavior. So fuck off your equivalence bullshit.

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  63. 63
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    Politics isn’t a court of law. Holding a political office is not the same as being stripped of civil liberties. So due process is not the only determinant.

    Politics is about perceptions. That is a big part of what Democrats are considering when they are saying Franken should resign. An Ethics Committee investigation would be a bleeding wound. Republicans would weaponize everything they could, and the media would go along. We can’t afford that if we want to impeach President Grab-em.

    I agree that “Believe the women” is open to misuse. Franken’s problem is that there is enough there (the photo, in particular) that there is a question. And senators may know more.

    I like Al Franken. I’m not sure I’d support him for President; that would have depended on a lot of things I just don’t know now. The governor of Minnesota is a Democrat, who will appoint a democrat to serve out Franken’s term. End the bleeding now.

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  64. 64
    tobie says:

    @rikyrah: Yes, you did, and I’m grateful for that. I’ll add to my suspicions about this story that I think it’s not accidental that these attacks have been against a black civil rights icon (Conyers) and an unapologetic Jewish liberal (Franken). I’m missing Shirley Chisholm and Bella Abzug right now. With their fighting spirits, they’d have some choice words about this.

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  65. 65
    jayjaybear says:

    @TenguPhule: Shakers. The Shakers were the ones who went extinct because they forbade any kind of sexual contact. Made some great furniture, though.

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  66. 66
    Brachiator says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I’m also wondering if his colleagues who are calling for him to step down know something about his behavior.

    No idea. If so, this might merit a private conference with Franken, not public grandstanding and declarations that he must go.

    And if they “know something,” it should have to be serious. As it is, the GOP has decided that politics is more important than anything. If the Democrats want to step into the noose to prove their moral purity, the Republicans will happily hang them.

    And then the Republicans will happily demean and oppress the women the Democrats claim that they respect.

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  67. 67
    TenguPhule says:

    @VincentN:

    In the meantime, the Democrats get credit for condemning sexual misbehavior.

    You must be new to American politics.

    We will get no credit for this and all of the blame.

    ReplyReply
  68. 68
    trollhattan says:

    @themann1086:
    I can actually see your concern face. Pence, is that you?

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  69. 69
    Raoul says:

    Sounds like he’s out. I don’t like how this is going down, but dammit, Dems need to roast the GOP over a continuous open spit of hellfire for Moore.

    @CathyWurzer [MN Public Radio anchor]
    RECAP of BREAKING NEWS: After 10+ Dem U.S senators and head of DNC call for @SenFranken to resign, Franken “with family” and “planning to make an announcement tomorrow” according to statement.

    And, Gov. Dayton needs to appoint an ass-kicking woman for the seat.

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  70. 70
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    An Ethics Committee investigation would be a bleeding wound.

    Oh FFS.

    /Facepalm

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  71. 71
    campionrules says:

    @TenguPhule: A congressional aide to a Democrat was the last accuser I believer. But suuuuuure, I’m sure she’s a sekrit Roger Stone Republican Plant. Save the women blaming for your local Young Republicans meeting

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  72. 72
    Soprano2 says:

    If he resigns without an investigation I predict the next one they go after will be from a state with a Republican governor, since they’ll see how easy it is to get Democrats to throw someone under the bus.

    If he’s guilty he should go; I want an investigation to confirm it.

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  73. 73
    Yarrow says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: :

    I’m also wondering if his colleagues who are calling for him to step down know something about his behavior.

    I’m wondering the same thing.

    When is this ethics investigation supposed to start? He called for one weeks ago. Is it already underway?

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  74. 74
    Stan says:

    This is all so obvious and y’all are missing it.

    Gillibrand is kneecapping one of her rivals for the 2020 presidential nomination. This is a play right out of the corrupt Albany O-Connell-Corning machine of which Gillibrand is a product.

    Franken may well be guilty as hell. I don’t know and neither do any of us. And maybe he should resign.

    But THIS is what Gillibrand is up to, no more and no less.

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  75. 75
    different-church-lady says:

    @Raoul: Right. So as of Dec. 12, we will find out if the calculation was correct.

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  76. 76
    Cacti says:

    All of the new nyms on the board agree.

    Franken must go.

    What a coinkydink.

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  77. 77
    MazeDancer says:

    I believe the women.

    As in the Women of SNL.

    They say Franken is not a groper, abuser, harasser, or any of the scummy things women in comedy know about. Which means he is not. If there was one credible story from women with whom he worked in comedy, then I, too, would be calling for him to step down. But there is not.

    Franken accusations continue to feel like a set-up. First accuser still is a Hannity pal who groped her guitarist on stage.

    And I agree with everyone who says Franken has to say: I didn’t do this. Loudly.

    But seems like we’re going to lose Franken. Because GOP are relentless and free of morals. And Dems demand the illusion of perfection not the reality of this is a frame-up.

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  78. 78
    The Moar You Know says:

    Oh FFS.

    /Facepalm

    @TenguPhule: In a different time and place, Republicans used to refer to Dems as “Surrendercrats”. I’m now of the opinion that frankly that was not only warranted but dead-on accurate.

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  79. 79
    Sab says:

    @TenguPhule: Two ambitious idiots who want him out of the way are against him, two right wing entertainers are suddenly offended by a USO skit older than his participation in USO, and a couple of anonymous allegedly Minnesota state fair goers.

    I am not denying women victims. I am denying Republican hacks. You haven’t shown me anything else, and all of his regular female colleagues over thirty odd years vouch for him as a wonderful colleague. So I am supposed to disregard them in favor of a couple Fox news employees? Seriously?

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  80. 80
    Cheryl Rofer says:

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  81. 81
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    @Brachiator: Perhaps there have been private conversations. We wouldn’t know.

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  82. 82
    Trentrunner Reckoning says:

    Franken’s office has announced Franken will be making an announcement tomorrow.

    (For the record, today’s accuser was a Democratic consultant, not some Republican plant.)

    Maybe it will help those here overcome with anger to understand that it is GOOD that these women are believed and that the perpetrator is held accountable.

    This is more important than tribalism.

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  83. 83
    MattF says:

    Copying my comment below:

    I have a suspicion that professional politicians don’t care much for Franken. ‘Comedian’ isn’t the usual starting point on the path to ‘Senator with a national constituency’– and although he makes a competent liberal Senator, supporting him turned out (perhaps not surprisingly) to be risky. That said, I don’t think he should resign. Yet.

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  84. 84
    The Moar You Know says:

    All of the new nyms on the board agree.

    Franken must go.

    What a coinkydink.

    @Cacti: Stunning, isn’t it? I think I’m about to find out how many nyms that pie filter can hold.

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  85. 85
    TenguPhule says:

    @campionrules:

    A congressional aide to a Democrat was the last accuser I believer

    A woman who claims she was a congressional aide to a Democrat. Only there is no way verify this because Politico didn’t name her.

    But keep chasing that football Charlie Brown.

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  86. 86
    tobie says:

    @Stan: Yes, Gillibrand is running in 2020, and no she will not have my vote. She has done nothing to earn it.

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  87. 87
    Bobby Thomson says:

    I think we have to consider the possibility that DJ Franken had a substance abuse problem that he cleaned up before running for Senate. Also, I suspect the Senators calling for his head know the aide in question personally.
    I’ve been trying to envision this ethics hearing. If everyone is making shit up it falls apart fast. Or does it? Do we get the optics of Democrats savaging a witness while Republicans offer tissues? Best case for Franken is Tweeden and the other non-anonymous women recant or change their stories – which isn’t necessarily the best case for women. Worst case is we get more Bidenesque performances – even if Franken is cleared under those circumstances he’s tainted.

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  88. 88
    Sab says:

    I have defended TenguPhule for months. I now accept his phulishness and I am pieing him. First time for pie.Sad day.

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  89. 89
    TenguPhule says:

    @Trentrunner Reckoning:

    (For the record, today’s accuser was a Democratic consultant, not some Republican plant.)

    WRONG. A woman CLAIMING to be a Democrat but which can’t be verified because her name was withheld by Politico.

    Lies are running around the world while the truth is getting its boots on.

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  90. 90
    satby says:

    Well, I am a woman, and person who was raped long ago, and I don’t always “believe the women”. And I think the Franken stories stink to high heaven of a smear job.
    I wish people weren’t so damn easy to fool, but obviously it’s as big a problem in the left as in the right.
    We have key votes coming up, and we’re taking scalps on our own team for at worst minor transgressions compared to the nearly constant pedophilia on the opposing team. That doesn’t make me feel morally superior, it makes me feel like I support the stupid party.

    ReplyReply
  91. 91
    JMG says:

    @Stan: What about the other nine Senators who said the same thing? They all running for President too? Look folks, no Senator or Representative is indispensable. If the Democratic Party cannot survive without Al Franken, it won’t survive period. This is a judgment by his peers. Is it part cold politics? Sure, they’re politicians. So is he. Don’t make him a hero just because you agree with his politics.

    ReplyReply
  92. 92
    Arky Vaughan says:

    I knew this would happen
    Franken will resign

    Trump will remain occupant of White House
    Moore will be in the Senate

    It is wrong for Franken to resign

    This is a hit job

    Republicans are evil and Democrats are week stupid losers

    what are we supposed to do ?

    ReplyReply
  93. 93
    different-church-lady says:

    I am very happy with this moral victory of a Republican President with a legacy of sexual assault allegations, a future Republican senator with a legacy of sexual pedophilia allegations, a Republican house, a Republican senate, and Republican supreme court.

    Because the LAST thing we want to do is turn into Republicans — they don’t have any standards, and they keep getting punished for it.

    ReplyReply
  94. 94
    MattF says:

    Pie! Pie! Pie!

    ReplyReply
  95. 95
    Mike in Pasadena says:

    Over a ten year period as a senior lawyer, I hired 5 women lawyers and supervised seven women lawyers because they were good. I doubt I would do so today. Too dangerous. So, I guess this has been great for women? I can’t be the only man that can see the danger of working around any woman. Okay, let the shouting begin, but it is the truth. In the same period, I had two women lawyers I was not supervising come to me and proposition me. Both times i ran from the room knowing no good would come of that situation. Scary. Glad I retired. So now I realize I am banned from this site for life. Bye.

    ReplyReply
  96. 96
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    There’s only one accuser

    Okay, there’s two accusers but they’re both Republicans

    Okay, there’s 5 accusers but most are Republicans

    Okay there’s 6 accusers and one was aide to prominent Democrat so …

    DUE PROCESS!!!

    ReplyReply
  97. 97
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cacti: Fuck you, I’ve been here like ten years and know at least on regular here IRL.

    ReplyReply
  98. 98
    TenguPhule says:

    @Sab: You and I are on the same page here, are you perhaps arguing with somebody else?

    ReplyReply
  99. 99
    Sab says:

    @Sab: Yikes. I pied the wrong guy. That’s why I don’t pie. Sorry TP. Jeez I am embarrassed.

    ReplyReply
  100. 100
    Davebo says:

    @Mike in Pasadena:

    Drama much?

    ReplyReply
  101. 101
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I’ve wondered the same. I believe one of the women who came forward worked for a Democratic politician. Folks are dismissing her account because reasons, but maybe Franken’s colleagues know her and believe her story.

    ReplyReply
  102. 102
    TenguPhule says:

    @Sab: I suspect you are confusing me with someone else.

    ReplyReply
  103. 103
    Cacti says:

    Democrats are content to run one of their own out of town on the word of anonymous accusers and without due process.

    But they wonder why they always fucking lose politically.

    Head, meet desk.

    ReplyReply
  104. 104
    Fair Economist says:

    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right … to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence

    Sometimes the Founders knew what they were talking about. Note: with Weinstein, Spacey, and Moore, the accusers weren’t anonymous.

    ReplyReply
  105. 105
    VincentN says:

    @TenguPhule:

    So you don’t think there are people out there looking at all of this and going ‘a pox on both your houses’ and then tuning out? Yes, there is no moral equivalency between Moore and Franken but enough people watch politics on a superficial level that we can’t afford ‘both-sidering’ them out of politics altogether.

    I don’t like the idea of these types of accusations being weaponized either regardless of whether they’re true or not in this case. But as Cheryl says politics is perception and responding to Franken’s detractors with “Trump can go first!” just makes us look childish. If your child cried, “Tommy down the street did way worse and he wasn’t punished!” that probably wouldn’t affect anything.

    ReplyReply
  106. 106
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @tobie:

    Gillibrand is running in 2020, and no she will not have my vote.

    If it’s Gillibrand v. Trump, you’ll vote for Wilmer? Jill? We see how well that worked out last time.

    ReplyReply
  107. 107
    Raoul says:

    Not sure if this is a plus or a minus.

    As others have pointed out, if Franken resigns, Minnesota will have two U.S. Senate seats, the governor's office, AG & all other constitutional offices on the ballot. #mnleg— Kyle Potter (@kpottermn) December 6, 2017

    I hope this backfires on the GOP, who, conventional wisdom might suggest, would aim to split-ticket the two Senate seats. Amy Klobuchar is likely untouchable. GOP would, under more normal times, argue that we should have a mixed delegation to D.C.
    But what may end up happening is actually a larger mid-term turnout in MN. That bodes ill for the MN GOP, who I think will have their hands full trying to defend their 2016 state House flip. Higher turnout probably helps with Governor, too.
    All of this in the backdrop of Trump being at 32% approval (and maybe headed lower).

    ReplyReply
  108. 108
    TenguPhule says:

    @Sab: It happens. Don’t worry about it. We’re all in a fury today. As far as I can tell we’re both on the same page that this is a Setup on Franken and its goddamn Bullshit.

    ReplyReply
  109. 109
    Yarrow says:

    I guess Cole’s not going to do a rant thread on this issue.

    Yeah, don't really care about Al at this point. He admitted he has done some of these things, and if his female colleagues all want him to go, cya later.— Serenity Now! (@Johngcole) December 6, 2017

    ReplyReply
  110. 110
    Trentrunner Reckoning says:

    Dara Lind at Vox:

    The Democratic Party was on the verge of failing a moral and political test. Then its women stepped in.

    On Wednesday, several women Democratic senators called on Twitter for Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) to resign in the face of allegations of repeated sexual misconduct. A few male colleagues, and Democratic National Committee chair Tom Perez, joined them shortly thereafter. The tweet swarm came a day after Rep. John Conyers’ (D-MI) resignation, ostensibly for health reasons, as new allegations continued to come up about his own record of harassment.

    The allegations against Conyers and Franken had both come out in the past few weeks, as part of a cascade of sexual-harassment and assault victims coming forward to share stories of long-past harassment by powerful men. For the most part, the men who have been revealed as repeat harassers in media and entertainment have been fired. But those in politics are showing more resistance — while some Republican state legislators have resigned after allegations of sexual involvement with teenage boys, and Republican Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) announced last week he would not seek re-election as stories surfaced of him harassing a constituent, other politicians were trying to stick it out.

    ReplyReply
  111. 111

    @Trentrunner Reckoning: OMG so sad that you keep making new names to avoid people who are trying to ignore you.

    ReplyReply
  112. 112
    JR says:

    I like Franken, but I cannot support the ends justifying the means. That’s how the GOP operates. To follow them is a sure path to madness.

    ReplyReply
  113. 113
    Cacti says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Fuck you, I’ve been here like ten years and know at least on regular here IRL.

    I guess that means I wasn’t talking about you, Einstein.

    ReplyReply
  114. 114
    Miss Bianca says:

    Well, great. This is making me sick. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right…

    Fuck Gillibrand. And fuck the other virtue-signallers. If we can’t stand the notion of waiting for an ethics investigation before we start tossing Democratic congresspeople out on their asses, then we are doing the Republicans’ work for them. The stupid BURNS.

    ReplyReply
  115. 115
    Trentrunner Reckoning says:

    @Mike in Pasadena: 99% sure you’re Dabney Coleman in 9 to 5.

    ReplyReply
  116. 116
    Mary G says:

    I actually thought the anonymous accusers who were third and fourth sounded believable, but I disagree he should resign. Not until Trump does.

    ReplyReply
  117. 117
    Trentrunner Reckoning says:

    @Major Major Major Major: You know who I am.

    And you now know that I was right.

    I’ll leave you to reflect and, perhaps, feel requisite shame.

    ReplyReply
  118. 118
    TenguPhule says:

    @VincentN: You think Franken would be the end of this?

    If Franken resigns, EVERY DEMOCRATIC SENATOR AND HOUSE REP BECOMES THE NEXT TARGET. EVERY MAYOR, STATE SEAT, BOARD & PRESIDENTAL CANDIDATE WILL BE FAIR GAME FOR REPUBLICAN/RUSSIAN RATFUCKING.

    And people are going to stop believing the women. All of them. You think you’re helping their movement for justice but all you’re doing is poisoning it.

    ReplyReply
  119. 119
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mike in Pasadena: We don’t ban people for beclowning themselves. It would be tumbleweeds around here if we did — on the front page and in comments. That said, I bet you’re not the only one who’s glad you’re retired. I work for myself in part because I hated dealing with asshole bosses.

    ReplyReply
  120. 120
    Fair Economist says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Might the most recent name be prophetic? Seems like the site should have policies for people who evade pie filters.

    ReplyReply
  121. 121
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I am not laughing, not even smiling, I am merely acknowledging a rare instance of Karma

    David Wallace-Wells‏ @ dwallacewells
    NBC news in LA is reporting that the wildfires are now burning down Rupert Murdoch’s house.

    ReplyReply
  122. 122
    Vor says:

    @campionrules: Which Democrat was this anonymous person an aide to? Joe Lieberman? Zell Miller? Let’s not jump too fast.

    ReplyReply
  123. 123
    West of the Cascades says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    If it’s Gillibrand v. Trump, you’ll vote for Wilmer? Jill? We see how well that worked out last time.

    Baud!

    ReplyReply
  124. 124
    Trentrunner Reckoning says:

    Chris Hayes on Twitter:

    It is very clear that having a significantly larger number of women in the caucus creates some real differences between the two parties.

    ReplyReply
  125. 125
    different-church-lady says:

    @JR: Path to madness? At this point all we’re doing is creating hedge mazes in the middle of the madness campus lawn.

    ReplyReply
  126. 126
  127. 127
    aimai says:

    @Mike in Pasadena: Good thing you retired.

    ReplyReply
  128. 128
    Fair Economist says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I am not laughing, not even smiling, I am merely acknowledging a rare instance of Karma

    David Wallace-Wells‏ @ dwallacewells
    NBC news in LA is reporting that the wildfires are now burning down Rupert Murdoch’s house.

    You are a better man than I.

    ReplyReply
  129. 129
    different-church-lady says:

    @Trentrunner Reckoning: Unfortunately it’s not creating any difference in what kind of legislation gets passed.

    ReplyReply
  130. 130
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    @Mike in Pasadena:
    I did the same thing years ago but all the lithe young men I hired found me irresistible, too.

    What to do?

    ReplyReply
  131. 131
    TenguPhule says:

    @Trentrunner Reckoning:

    I called for Franken’s resignation.

    And you did the Republican’s work for them.

    How does it feel to be a fucking Quisling?

    ReplyReply
  132. 132
    Cacti says:

    @Vor:

    Which Democrat was this anonymous person an aide to? Joe Lieberman? Zell Miller? Let’s not jump too fast.

    Who the hell knows?

    We just have to her status as a Congressional aide on faith.

    ReplyReply
  133. 133
    aimai says:

    @TenguPhule: Just because they didn’t name her doesn’t t mean they didn’t know who she was. You don’t understand anonymity, do you?

    ReplyReply
  134. 134
    Peale says:

    @TenguPhule: I discovered feminism just in time to hobble my enemies and plan to return to hating on that Clinton bitch once this is over.

    ReplyReply
  135. 135
    ruemara says:

    @satby: I can’t deny I agree with you, but we don’t have a media on our side. We are getting a lot of growing bad press. If we had a decent media, this wouldn’t be so necessary.

    @Mike in Pasadena: You’re banned for life due to stupidity. It’s not about working with women, it’s called keeping your hands to yourself. If you can’t handle that, that’s your problem.

    I’ve been on the fence as the number of women has grown. I have no doubts that some of these are incidents being used to remove Franken. Sorry, but that’s the world we live in. But his conduct is being equated – wrongly – with Moore. That’s a liability right now. I don’t know if he’s the villain as portrayed, but I think as we’re at 6 accusers, he’s gotta step down. But honestly, if I were him, I’d be seeing my accusers in court if I don’t believe this actually happened. Democrats are going to have to behave as if you’re black for a while. You have no room for mistakes in this new world and I think we’re going to keep hearing more about democratic lawmakers. Notably, we’re not hearing much about republican ones and the ones we do hear about, they’re not paying any price.

    ReplyReply
  136. 136
    LurkerNoLonger says:

    @MazeDancer: It’s a real shame what they did to him, but the world isn’t a fare place.

    ReplyReply
  137. 137
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Amaranthine RBG: you don’t often make me laugh, but when you do….

    ReplyReply
  138. 138
    PJ says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Due process is now a bleeding wound? WTF? I’m no fan of Bill Clinton, but even I don’t think he should have just thrown in the towel when Republicans started talking about impeachment. Should Hillary have quit when the investigation into her emails started? Give me a break. The “bleeding” you are talking about is happening because Republicans smell blood. They have and will continue to attack Democrats and Democratic policies with whatever tools are available and effective, be it lies, truth, or BS. As long as Democrats cave, and are urged to cave by other Democrats when lies and BS are being spread about Democrats, the Republicans will keep at it. The only thing that will actually stop them is when due process is finished – when their Whitewater or impeachment or emails investigation turns up bupkis, and even then they will keep raising the issue, as they still do with Hillary. Caving on unsupported rumors is only going to embolden them. Meanwhile, not one Republican accused of harassment or rape or child molestation will resign or admit to anything until someone comes up with photographic evidence of them with little boys, and maybe not even them.

    The willingness of Democrats to kneecap themselves is so dismaying.

    ReplyReply
  139. 139
    Trentrunner Reckoning says:

    @TenguPhule: You seem intemperate and currently governed by coarsening malice, so perhaps it’s not the time for a question that expects sober consideration, but:

    Why do you believe Moore’s accusers and not Franken’s?

    (Actually, a question for anyone who thinks Franken shouldn’t resign.)

    ReplyReply
  140. 140
    Raoul says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: One correction: the Governor will appoint a replacement till the next general election. Franken wasn’t up until 2020.

    ReplyReply
  141. 141
    satby says:

    @Miss Bianca: AGREED! If the Democratic party wants to stand for higher quality values, let’s start with due process and a person is innocent until proven guilty. Instead of having online mob rule.

    I have to get off the net now, this shit just gets me ill, and the coming government shutdown is promising a very bleak Christmas for a lot of people who depend on SS and government workers, and people are obsessing over bullshit.

    ReplyReply
  142. 142
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Meanwhile, on the right, this is all a dastardly plan to humiliate Roy Moore (Leon Wolf is part of The Blaze, which I guess is still a thing)

    Leon Wolf‏Verified account
    Ah, so this was scripted. “Let us all get on the record first saying that you should resign before you announce it. Will be really helpful when we beat up on Roy Moore. Thanks Al, you’re the best.”

    ReplyReply
  143. 143
    Kay says:

    @Amaranthine RBG:

    Guffaw.

    ReplyReply
  144. 144

    Never, never, never, never, never give a scalp.

    There is no other aspect, no other consideration.

    Never give a scalp. Not one.

    ReplyReply
  145. 145
    grubert says:

    Franken should stay right where he is. This is BS sourced from Politico, completely anonymous and means nothing in the long run.

    I am tired of weak-kneed Democratic politicians. But as there are only two parties and voting Republican is right out.

    A lot of new commenters using the “we” word.

    ReplyReply
  146. 146
    different-church-lady says:

    I am reminded of the kinds of comments Daily Kos offered when the Weiner scandal first emerged. There was a lot of “proof” that he could not have made the tweet, simply because a known low-level deplorable stumbled across it.

    In a sane world it would be very easy to either wait out an investigation, or urge Franken out gently.

    We don’t live in a sane world.

    ReplyReply
  147. 147
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    The GOP has shown that it can weaponize ANYTHING. They’ve managed to pervert a commitment to Voting Rights, to actually prevent people from voting. They’ve taken Religious Freedom and used it to promote oppression. This is not new. This is What. They. Do. We can’t let the potential-for-abuse-by-the-GOP be the standard for determining Dem principles. We’ve been saying for the past couple years how the Democratic Party desperately needs to define itself and show voters why we are better than Republicans, and when we have a chance to do so, so many people are humming and hawing and throwing out the same old excuses that Rape Culture has provided us forever. This is a chance to begin to change our culture for the better and show that our party is willing to take the tough, and risky steps of leading the way.

    ReplyReply
  148. 148
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    @Arky Vaughan:

    Yes, but at least we can tell ourselves how good and pure we are. We let go of an effective weapon in the defense of our Democratic values and watch while conservatives rule us to ruin.

    So, uh, win-win?

    ReplyReply
  149. 149
    Fair Economist says:

    @aimai:

    Just because they didn’t name her doesn’t t mean they didn’t know who she was. You don’t understand anonymity, do you?

    If it’s anonymous because it’s shielded by a credible source, then it’s a legit accusation. It’s not. If Gillibrand knew the accuser and said she believed her it would be a different story. Right now, though, it’s as credible an accusation as a claim that Moore molested me as a boy (I was in Alabama and the right age.)

    ReplyReply
  150. 150
    tobie says:

    @Gin & Tonic: God willing we’ll have choices besides Gillibrand in the primary. And for what it’s worth, she’s been courting Wilmer and Stein voters for some time. It’s HRC voters she’s managed to piss off time and again.

    ReplyReply
  151. 151
    Stan says:

    @JMG:

    @Stan: What about the other nine Senators who said the same thing? They all running for President too? Look folks, no Senator or Representative is indispensable. If the Democratic Party cannot survive without Al Franken, it won’t survive period. This is a judgment by his peers. Is it part cold politics? Sure, they’re politicians. So is he. Don’t make him a hero just because you agree with his politics.

    No, the other nine are backing Gillibrand’s (and maybe Harris’s) play. Having nine rather than one is smart politics, obviously.

    To be clear, while I like the senator that Al Franken is, he’s no ‘hero’ to me. No politician is – I know too many of them up close. Even the ones who look great in public are more often than not assholes.

    All I am saying is, this is about Gillibrand’s 2020 campaign. The rest is irrelevant to her calculations. I say that with great confidence. If you knew where she comes from you’d be confident too.

    All of this can be true regardless of whether Franken is guilty or not and regardless of where he resigns or not.

    ReplyReply
  152. 152
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    These people are doing exactly what Roger Stone wants them to do.

    ReplyReply
  153. 153

    @different-church-lady: I remember Jon Stewart saying it couldn’t possibly be Anthony because they were roommates in college and his dick wasn’t that big.

    ReplyReply
  154. 154
    TenguPhule says:

    @aimai:

    Just because they didn’t name her doesn’t t mean they didn’t know who she was.

    We just learned LAST WEEK about a ratfucking operation that kicked off the day AFTER Moore’s story broke in the Wapo.

    All of the accusations against Franken have been Republicans or anonymous. The evidence has not supported their stories. Their stories don’t match up with a pattern of behavior.

    Do you not see something wrong with this pattern?

    ReplyReply
  155. 155
    satby says:

    @TenguPhule: and this is also true, thank you. This undercuts actual victims of sexual assault and rape. Let me give you all a pro tip, dodging a kiss isn’t anywhere near dealing with an actual, forcible assault; and I bitterly resent those of you who equate them.

    ReplyReply
  156. 156
    Kay says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    No one knows how it will turn out, politically, on balance.

    Maybe the senators made a good political call. Maybe they’re like Evil Hillary and very devious and scheming

    I certainly hope so! Thank fucking god if they are. I’ll cheer.

    ReplyReply
  157. 157
    Trentrunner Reckoning says:

    NARAL:

    We agree. Senator Franken should step aside. We support and believe the women who are coming forward with their stories. We need to immediately work towards systemic change so that behavior like this is not tolerated in the United States Congress or anywhere else.

    ReplyReply
  158. 158
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cacti: Give me a break. You are your idiot buddies here are smearing everyone who disagrees with you.

    ReplyReply
  159. 159
    Cacti says:

    @Uncle Ebeneezer:

    The GOP has shown that it can weaponize ANYTHING. They’ve managed to pervert a commitment to Voting Rights, to actually prevent people from voting. They’ve taken Religious Freedom and used it to promote oppression. This is not new. This is What. They. Do. We can’t let the potential-for-abuse-by-the-GOP be the standard for determining Dem principles. We’ve been saying for the past couple years how the Democratic Party desperately needs to define itself and show voters why we are better than Republicans, and when we have a chance to do so, so many people are humming and hawing and throwing out the same old excuses that Rape Culture has provided us forever. This is a chance to begin to change our culture for the better and show that our party is willing to take the tough, and risky steps of leading the way.

    Right. If we just signal our virtue a little louder this time, surely the public will see the light about the GOP.

    What color is the sky in your world?

    ReplyReply
  160. 160
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @Betty Cracker: Franken has categorically denied the most recent claim. Not “I don’t remember it like that” but “That’s not what happened”.

    If there is no fire under all this smoke, one person who knows that for sure is Al Franken. If he comes out swinging tomorrow when he “makes his announcement” and claims that the whole thing is bullshit and he demands an investigation…well OK, let’s investigate it. He would only resign if he knows worse is coming.

    ReplyReply
  161. 161
    Betty Cracker says:

    That scheming bitch Tom Perez also said Franken should step down. 🙄

    ReplyReply
  162. 162

    Trentrunner Reckoning:

    Pie continues to ruin my life.

    So true! So sad!

    ReplyReply
  163. 163
    satby says:

    @Trentrunner Reckoning: oh, and a special fuck you to you.

    ReplyReply
  164. 164
    TenguPhule says:

    @Trentrunner Reckoning:

    Why do you believe Moore’s accusers and not Franken’s?

    You mean aside from the fact Wapo went out of their way to verify the details, have supporting evidence, third party testimony and Moore was banned from a shopping mall for his behavior?

    Gee, I wonder.

    Tell me again about all the supporting evidence and third party testimony against Franken.

    I’ll wait.

    ReplyReply
  165. 165
    Cacti says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Give me a break. You are your idiot buddies here are smearing everyone who disagrees with you.

    Would you like a trowel for the Preparation H for your butt hurt, cupcake?

    ReplyReply
  166. 166
    VincentN says:

    @TenguPhule:

    I do not want to see a world where there is an arms race of both parties slinging real and fabricated accusations at each other until everybody simply decides to discount all accusations altogether.

    I also don’t want to see a world where only women with signed confessions and video recordings of sexual assault/harassment will be taken seriously. I don’t want another Anita Hill debacle from either side.

    Maybe ousting a public official should require more due process than that of an actor or entertainment mogul. Fine. Make that argument without calling the accusers Republican moles and liars. Maybe they are but that’s no different from how Republicans would defend their accused. Argue instead we need time to verify details and such because the good people of (insert state) deserve to know the whole truth for good or ill.

    ReplyReply
  167. 167
    B.B.A. says:

    If he’s guilty, he must go.

    If he’s innocent, he still does us more good outside the Senate than in the Senate. We need more and better ratfuckers, and an Emmy-winning writer would be a major asset to any ratfucking operation.

    ReplyReply
  168. 168
    Trentrunner Reckoning says:

    @satby: Way harsh, Tai.

    ReplyReply
  169. 169
    Tony P. says:

    If Al Franken resigns before He, Trump is impeached, I will never again support the Democratic Party.

    What’s the best way to convey that message to the DNC, the Democratic senators who have called for his resignation, and to Al Franken himself?

    –TP

    ReplyReply
  170. 170
    Sab says:

    @TenguPhule: I will miss all those lovely pie comments. Maybe I should pie someone innocuous to be able to read the pies stuff, but sometimes the innocuous commenter have new and interesting things to say.

    I am plump. I should give up on even virtual pies.

    ReplyReply
  171. 171
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cacti: Don’t you mean snowflake? You idiots have started thinking like deplorables, you might as well start talking like them.

    ReplyReply
  172. 172
    trollhattan says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    As a paid member of Amalgamated Clowns Local 666 I thank you for being allowed to remain in the sandbox. Can we at least ban the cats?

    ReplyReply
  173. 173
    gene108 says:

    Gotta pick your battles.

    We can’t be the Party for Women’s Rights and then try to defend Franken beyond a point.

    If his colleagues think his presence in the Senate is a drag on the Party, he needs to step down.

    I assume you don’t get to be a Senator, without some level political calculation on what makes you look good and what helps your election chances.

    I don’t think this reaction is just a rush to see whose pony is purest. There is probably some level of political calculation involved.

    And yes, Republicans will do worse and not give a damn. But I think the issue is to be able to draw a contrast between us and them and make sure the media can grok that there is a difference between the Parties on this issue.

    There was an underlying them emerging, after Iran-Contra that Republican administrations had a corruption problem. Republicans turned that on its ear by accusing Clinton of every imagined allegation they could think of and the media basically equated Whitewater, and extra-marital affairs, with Watergate and Iran-Contra.

    We now have Trump stinking up the join after the squeaky clean Obama Administration.

    We are in a position to draw a clear distinction so bright and vivid even the MSM could see it, and we can set the narrative for a change about how Democrats stand for things.

    Edit: For a lot of liberal leaning – not Bernie Sanders soc$alist revolution wanting folks – who think we should be fairer to the less fortunate and have the rich pay for it, there is a lot of wonder at what exactly do the Democrats stand for. Here is a chance to send a message.

    ReplyReply
  174. 174
    TenguPhule says:

    @Uncle Ebeneezer:

    This is a chance to begin to change our culture for the better and show that our party is willing to take the tough, and risky steps of leading the way into the ovens.

    Virtue signaling is a luxury reserved for a solid majority.

    ReplyReply
  175. 175
    rikyrah says:

    @TenguPhule:

    @themann1086: Show us some FUCKING EVIDENCE and an accuser that isn’t a Republican or an unknown source.

    Uh huh
    Uh huh

    ReplyReply
  176. 176
    Raoul says:

    @kindness:

    I would prefer that Al just say he won’t run again. Especially since Republicans aren’t willing to act the same way to their members.

    Before his colleague pile-on today, I’d have agreed. As a Minnesotan, though, and as I think more on this, as the allegations (and yes they are that, and I’ve weighed in above on what I think the ceracity of some of them are) have mounted, Al staying – even as a lame duck – would put the MN Governor’s office as well as a real shot to win back the MN House, at serious risk. Yes, over perceptions. But as Cheryl points out, they do still matter to a lot of more average, non-obsessed voters (ie: not Juicers, not twitter-consumers).

    We here in MN have to either hold the Governor’s mansion, or win back the House (both, please, FSM!) or we will in a matter of seconds start a very fast slide to becoming Scott Walker’s first cousins. It shocked the shit out of me when we lost both the MN House and Senate last year. We are this close to a GOP trifecta here and it’d be devastating. The wounds Franken has now taken from his peers makes him too risky for local/state politics. Pisses me off that they all rushed to freak out today. But we can’t go back in time.

    ReplyReply
  177. 177
    John Carter says:

    From a comment on DU:

    In a lengthy statement posted on Facebook, Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) said she was “shocked” and “disappointed” by several women’s allegations that Franken inappropriately touched them. She was joined by Sens. Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii), Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) and Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.), who made their views known on Twitter.

    Uh, maybe I’m wrong but isn’t Gillibrand et.al. supposed to represent the views of her (their) constituents and not decide what’s best in her (their) opinion without hearing from those she (they) supposedly represent?

    Doing what she (they) are doing, is not so different from what the asshole in charge does, namely think he’s the only one who can make a decision without full evidence and that should be enough. I’m pretty sure that’s not what America is all about…or maybe she (they) are taking a page from the Republican playbook?

    Gillibrand and your associates, you need to first and foremost put aside ANY possibly misconstued sexist feelings you seem to be exhibiting and see what the PEOPLE you represent feel before opening your mouth by playing judge, jury and executioner.

    Or am I wrong?
    *******************************
    These 6 Female Senators have just done more damage to the Democratic Party than the Clinton/Sanders infighting or Russians or Republicans could hope for. The vast number of comments supporting AL and disparaging the 6 seem to be asking why these women think they’re holier-than-thou or turning the other cheek or hang him BEFORE they really KNOW anything will make Americans respect Democrats more or whatever.
    Playing nice since ST. Ronnie has gotten the Democrats and America NOTHING.

    ReplyReply
  178. 178
    Nelle says:

    Nope, nope, nope. Having an investigation is the best way that “me,too” doesn’t get weaponized against opponents.

    Pre-emptive resignations and firings play into the hands of the “Purity police” on one side and turn the Congress over to more deviants.

    Seriously, think. Don’t get stampeded.

    ReplyReply
  179. 179
    bemused says:

    David Frum tweeted on Nov. 20: So who is ready for a world in which Dems force Al Franken to resign out of Senate and Republicans vote Roy Moore in.

    ReplyReply
  180. 180
    jay says:

    This is kind of hysterical.

    First, the left really isn’t doing that great resisting. It just kind of happens as a reflex. Second, don’t count on the midterms when the other party is actively trying to suppress your ability to turn out voters. Third, what the fuck does any of this matter if you can’t unseat a party and a president that will gut women’s issues and rights? What have you won when you clearly stand to lose so much more in the short and long term?

    NOTHING.

    You will get your asses kicked repeatedly because you are playing the game with people who have no shame, no morals, no qualms about destroying their political opponents. The truth doesn’t matter to them at all. They sure as fk don’t care what you think about it.

    So how do you beat these guys? Because Pelosi, Schumer, the Democratic Party, and the online left don’t seem to have a clue. And if you can get your opponents to gut themselves for you, well, why not? Party of raggedy old fools.

    ReplyReply
  181. 181
    different-church-lady says:

    @VincentN: I’m giving up on a solution. I think we, as a species, are just doomed to lurch from under-reaction to over-reaction to the next over-reaction. There’s no curing power struggles.

    ReplyReply
  182. 182
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    @PJ:

    Due process is now a bleeding wound?

    That’s not what I said. To be more explicit, the information and testimonies and Republican commentary on an investigation would be a bleeding wound. In any case, due process applies to criminal proceedings, as someone quoted above. Removal by one’s party from office is not a criminal proceeding.

    They have and will continue to attack Democrats and Democratic policies with whatever tools are available and effective, be it lies, truth, or BS.

    That is true. It doesn’t justify giving them something for free.

    @Raoul: Thanks. The point remains that a Democrat will take Franken’s place. And will not have Franken’s baggage in the next election.

    This is a political calculation for a political problem. That’s a description, not a condemnation. We have other battles to fight, like getting an incompetent President out of office, or at least defanged to the greatest extent we can. Keeping Franken in office will weaken our ability to do that for political reasons.

    ReplyReply
  183. 183
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Tony P.: Well sure, blame Democrats, they totally have the power to make Trump resign.

    ReplyReply
  184. 184
    trollhattan says:

    @TenguPhule:
    One of them committed one or more felonies, for starters.

    ReplyReply
  185. 185
    different-church-lady says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    The point remains that a Democrat will take Franken’s place. And will not have Franken’s baggage in the next election.

    In all of the examples I can think of, the seat always switches parties after the scandal.

    ReplyReply
  186. 186
    TenguPhule says:

    @gene108:

    But I think the issue is to be able to draw a contrast between us and them and make sure the media can grok that there is a difference between the Parties on this issue.

    If Franken is forced to resign I guarantee you that the Democratic party will get none of the credit and all of the blame for having sex fiends hidden in their ranks.

    Those who are turning on Franken now are the new Bernie-bros of 2017.

    If they get the upper hand, 2018 is going to be a worse repeat of 2016.

    ReplyReply
  187. 187
    Arky Vaughan says:

    @Trentrunner Reckoning:
    There’s no equivalence

    ReplyReply
  188. 188
    TenguPhule says:

    @jay:

    You will get your asses kicked repeatedly because you are playing the game with people who have no shame, no morals, no qualms about destroying their political opponents. The truth doesn’t matter to them at all. They sure as fk don’t care what you think about it.

    But sufficient purity will make the Republicans see the error of their ways! //

    ReplyReply
  189. 189
    Cacti says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Don’t you mean snowflake? You idiots have started thinking like deplorables, you might as well start talking like them.

    I used to think a lot of Democrats didn’t know how to win, because they’d rather get a good sportsmanship award than win office.

    I was wrong. Many Democrats don’t actually care if they win, as long as they get to feel purer in heart than the Republican who defeated them.

    Enjoy feeling pure as every liberal accomplishment of the last century gets gutted by the party that cares if they win.

    ReplyReply
  190. 190
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    GOP dictatorship here we come

    ReplyReply
  191. 191
    trollhattan says:

    @rikyrah:
    If he goes then the stories blow up, is it all “oopsie, sorry no takebacks”? Or does the story just go away so there’s no chance of that?

    ReplyReply
  192. 192
    Sab says:

    @Betty Cracker: Tom Perez wants everyone to step down. You can’t run a political party without controversy, This is what politics is.

    ReplyReply
  193. 193
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    We have other battles to fight

    Surrender on Franken and we’re going to be right back in the same battle with another Democratic Senator.

    Win or die.

    ReplyReply
  194. 194
    BobbyK says:

    Remember Acorn? Remember the Duke Lacrosse fiasco? Lives were ruined because of the Duke Lacrosse accusations. Accusations must be taken seriously but for christ sakes this “pre give up” bull shit has to stop.

    ReplyReply
  195. 195
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    Aren’t we using up time and energy on this, alienating people who should be our allies, when we should be beating on Republicans and the conference committee to kill the tax bill? Causing confusion there so they can’t agree? Bills have been defeated in conference committee before. It would be a great victory to defeat this abomination. But we have to focus to do that.

    Perhaps the fight over Franken and division among Democrats is what Republicans want to see.

    ReplyReply
  196. 196
    Betty Cracker says:

    @John Carter: Someone in a previous comment deployed the word “hysterical” to describe the reaction to the accusations against Franken. But I think it fits this statement in your comment much more precisely:

    These 6 Female Senators have just done more damage to the Democratic Party than the Clinton/Sanders infighting or Russians or Republicans could hope for.

    Da fuq? 🙄

    ReplyReply
  197. 197
    different-church-lady says:

    @Trentrunner Reckoning:

    Why do you believe Moore’s accusers and not Franken’s?

    (Actually, a question for anyone who thinks Franken shouldn’t resign.)

    I don’t “believe” any of them. My beliefs have literally no impact or influence on what is factual. My beliefs are moot.

    If you want to ask me about my guesses as to the veracity of various accusations, I might be willing to share them.

    Likewise on my views regarding the relative nature of the alleged crimes involved.

    ReplyReply
  198. 198
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Sab: Nonsense.

    ReplyReply
  199. 199
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    I’m amazed so many people struggle with basic shit.

    Humans are attracted to other humans. If as an adult the human you are drawn to is also an adult, it’s okay to let them know, to flirt a little. If your efforts are unwanted, BACK OFF and stop being creepy.

    If you enter the workforce and weaponize your attractiveness and use sex to advance your career, you’re creepy, too.

    ReplyReply
  200. 200
    Raoul says:

    @MomSense:

    Conyers resigned and then Ryan was asked about Farenthold and he deflected.

    Ryan is, of course, a complete piece of shit. If Franken does resign as now expected, a non-supine press would on a regular basis ask Ryan about Farenthold, and McConnell about Moore. As always, we need a press that gives a crap about the ethics of the GOP.

    ReplyReply
  201. 201

    @Cheryl Rofer: How is asking Franken to resign help your purported goal?

    ReplyReply
  202. 202
    Nelle says:

    @satbyThe man who assaulted me is in prison for life as a violent, sexual predator. I’m finding it rich that I’m being told that I don’t care about harassment and assault just because I think there should be an investigation rather than immediately shoving Franken out. I’ve been called to court three times and the last time, was cross-examined as if I was the liar. The man had the right to defend himself and I’m grateful that he was convicted and a 30 plus year reign of assault was ended. Why can no one talk about investigation and censure? Is there only one hammer?

    ReplyReply
  203. 203
    different-church-lady says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Aren’t we using up time and energy on this, alienating people who should be our allies…

    Well, we are Democrats after all…

    ReplyReply
  204. 204

    @Tony P.:

    If Al Franken resigns before He, Trump is impeached, I will never again support the Democratic Party.

    In a thread full of stupid this is the stupidest.

    ReplyReply
  205. 205
    grubert says:

    @VincentN:

    I also don’t want to see a world where only women with signed confessions and video recordings of sexual assault/harassment will be taken seriously. I don’t want another Anita Hill debacle from either side.

    Being taken seriously does not, should not, mean being completely believed by default.

    Anita Hill’s charges were taken seriously, just not by Thomas’ friends. And then she was smeared by right wing liars and feckless Democrats threw her overboard, rather like what’s happening right now.

    ReplyReply
  206. 206
    tychay says:

    Please ban troll runner, he keeps working around the pie filter

    ReplyReply
  207. 207
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cacti: You’re fucking stupid. This guy is done and none of the dumbass conspiracy theories that people are floating on this thread can change that. At best we can salvage our reputation as the party that believes women, and that might help maintain some of the enthusiasm that helped us win in VA in November. But morons like yourself want to sabotage even that.

    ReplyReply
  208. 208
    WaterGirl says:

    Trentrunner pied again, with his new name.

    ReplyReply
  209. 209
    PJ says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I think we disagree on the political calculation. You believe that, regardless of the truth of allegations made against him or her, a Democrat should resign, before any investigation takes place, because the Republicans will make hay out of it, whereas, after the resignation, they will kindheartedly stop their attacks on Democrats. I believe that succumbing to unproven allegations will encourage Republicans to make even more attacks and find, or manufacture (paging James O’Keefe!), even more unsubstantiated allegations. I can’t see how keeping Franken in office in any way weakens the Democrats’ power now or in subsequent elections. Are voters suddenly going to turn to the GOP to protect women’s rights and dignity?

    ReplyReply
  210. 210
    eemom says:

    @satby:

    people are obsessing over bullshit.

    It’s really kind of unspeakable how fucked up it is for ANY fucking Democrat, male or female, to waste a single brain cell on this bullshit on a day when the tax monstrosity plus a government shutdown are looming, Dump is about to unleash all hell in the ME, and the all out republican war on human decency and the planet continues to rage on multiple fronts.

    Idiots. Idiots. Idiots.

    ReplyReply
  211. 211
    Betty Cracker says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: My apologies to John Carter at #176. Your comment at #189 best embodies “hysterical.” So far.

    ReplyReply
  212. 212
    grubert says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Not stupid. A completely understandable sentiment. Why fight for a party that won’t fight for itself?

    Unfortunately, checking out will make matters worse.

    ReplyReply
  213. 213
    WaterGirl says:

    It’s making me feel sick to think that Al Franken will resign and others who are GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY if worse are actually in the white house and quite possibly about to be elected to the institution Al would resign from.

    stupid, stupid,, stupid. why are so many people apparently able to see the big picture?

    ReplyReply
  214. 214
    different-church-lady says:

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): I think you’re neglecting to acknowledge that there can be a VAST difference in civilization from specimen to specimen. You’re describing the rules of advanced civilized society, not the rules of large mammals as a whole.

    ReplyReply
  215. 215
    jay says:

    They know how to active the left’s circular firing squad. Damn. Democrats are gonna get gutted leading up to 2018. Folks are not at all prepared for what is coming.

    ReplyReply
  216. 216
    PJ says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: You think? But no, people can’t let it rest and say, “let’s see what the Ethics Committee determines”. It has to be “off with his head!” right now.

    ReplyReply
  217. 217
    grubert says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Wow, you really are Satanic. It’s nice to see a right winger be honest about something.

    ReplyReply
  218. 218
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Hard to see how that one is topped.

    ReplyReply
  219. 219

    @grubert:

    Not stupid. A completely understandable sentiment. Why fight for a party that won’t fight for itself?

    Unfortunately, checking out will make matters worse.

    See, it’s the last part that makes it stupid 🙄

    ReplyReply
  220. 220
    Miss Bianca says:

    @satby: You know, I am about ready to give up on the Democratic Party. I really am. And I say that not only as a registered Democrat, but a member of my local party’s central committee.

    I have defended the Democrats against right-wingers who see us as tax’n’spend liebrul devils incarnate.

    I have defended Democrats against left-wingers who see us as more of the same both-sides-do-it devils incarnate.

    I have long argued that the Democratic Party is the ONLY bulwark against the malice and malfeasance of the authoritarian wingnuts who want to bring this country down to 3rd-world status – a banana republic with crappier weather.

    But this shit? – where virtue-signalling becomes more important, literally more important, than keeping an eye on the prize – holding the administration’s feet to the fire, and rallying every goddamn vote, every goddamn voice we’ve got to do? To say nothing of standing up for due process and equal treatment for all? – then I’ve had it.

    I”d say “fuck ’em”, but it’s us we’re talking about. Fuck us.

    ReplyReply
  221. 221

    Thomas, Trump, Farenthold still in office but let’s decapitate our own, and then you fucking wonder why won’t people vote D? You don’t stand up for your own throw them under the bus to appease the media and Rs, for what exactly.

    ReplyReply
  222. 222
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Excuse me for expecting total scumbags to take advantage of this and weaponize accusations. Excuse me for expecting due process investigations. Excuse me for expecting my leaders to have spines.

    ReplyReply
  223. 223
    TenguPhule says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: Civil Breakdown, here we come. (Because Democrats can’t be counted on to organize a proper Civil War, we’re too damn busy kneecapping ourselves)

    ReplyReply
  224. 224
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    @PJ: We are weakening our power with this argument, which would continue as long as Franken is in office.

    My argument has nothing to do with whatever the Republicans may say or their (lack of) good will. It has only to do with the effectiveness of Democrats in reaching our goals.

    Insofar as I’m trying to adjudicate claims, the fact that so many woman senators are calling for Franken to step down suggests to me that there’s more to this than we know.

    ReplyReply
  225. 225

    @Betty Cracker: Trentrunner being on at least his third(!) nym to skirt the pie filter is pretty stupid too.

    ReplyReply
  226. 226
    trollhattan says:

    @WaterGirl: Speaking of delicious pie, I finally deployed it and to my chagrin, it seems to reset itself and I’m back to reading the pie-ee the next day. is it relying on cookies or something between browsing sessions?

    ReplyReply
  227. 227
    Cacti says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    You’re fucking stupid. This guy is done and none of the dumbass conspiracy theories that people are floating on this thread can change that. At best we can salvage our reputation as the party that believes women, and that might help maintain some of the enthusiasm that helped us win in VA in November. But morons like yourself want to sabotage even that.

    Yes, surrender preemptively, then throw ourselves on the mercy of the GOP and the media. Bold.

    The reason Democrats like you consistently lose to Republicans is because you’re weak, they know it, and they can always count on your kind of Dem to back down from a fight.

    ReplyReply
  228. 228
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Fair Economist:

    Note: with Weinstein, Spacey, and Moore, the accusers weren’t anonymous.

    Yup. Funny, that.

    And when is Blake Farenthold going to tender his resignation for much worse behavior that had to be fixed with a settlement? Oh, he isn’t going to resign? There’s a shocker.

    You all got played, and you’re so bathed in self-righteousness that you don’t care. Moore will get elected, Farenthold will keep his office, but you got your liberal scalp. Whoo.

    ReplyReply
  229. 229
    grubert says:

    @PJ:

    Exactly true.

    ReplyReply
  230. 230
    The Moar You Know says:

    NBC news in LA is reporting that the wildfires are now burning down Rupert Murdoch’s house.

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s only karma if he’s inside, calling for government services to save his fat ass.

    ReplyReply
  231. 231
    different-church-lady says:

    Here, let’s clear a couple of things up:

    a) In a sane world it would be easy to agree that pushing Franken out is the right thing to do

    b) WE DON’T FUCKIN’ LIVE IN A SANE WORLD ANYMORE.

    ReplyReply
  232. 232
    TenguPhule says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Da fuq?

    They turned on one of their own based on bullshit.

    They’ll find the next one easier. And thanks to those 6 MORONS we’re going to see a lot more next times.

    ReplyReply
  233. 233
    Cacti says:

    “Sentence first, verdict afterwards.”

    -Queen of Hearts (D-Wonderland)

    ReplyReply
  234. 234
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Already addressed.

    ReplyReply
  235. 235
    VincentN says:

    Whatever Franken decides to do he should do it for himself. Don’t be forced into stepping aside for the “good for of the party.” Because the party is screwed either way. If he’s innocent then he should stay and insist on the investigation running its course. If he’s guilty then say so and resign or state he won’t be running again after his term is up. Let’s have the truth one way or another or this controversy will never die.

    ReplyReply
  236. 236
    John Carter says:

    I think if we, the United States of America, just develop a weapon of mass destruction, the rest of the world will cease any kind of violence and never try to make one of their own! Peace will break out everywhere.

    How’d that work out?

    ReplyReply
  237. 237
    Kay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I love “Female Senators” though :)

    Maybe they all want to get rid of Franken because he’s a political liability and they had the women take the lead because it looks good. I would be shocked if they were that organized and cohesive, but it’s possible.

    He is in some measure a political liability. That’s true. The only question is how much of one and what to do about it.

    ReplyReply
  238. 238
    different-church-lady says:

    @different-church-lady: C) Anyone who thinks future Democratic candidates will be rewarded for this at the ballot box is a damned fool.

    ReplyReply
  239. 239
    TenguPhule says:

    @different-church-lady:

    a) In an insane world it would be easy to agree that pushing Franken out is the right thing to do

    FTFY.

    None of the accusers are credible. No third party support. No evidence that supports their stories.

    But somehow Franken must go, because “believe the women!”

    Fuck no, I don’t believe these particular women.

    ReplyReply
  240. 240
    Davebo says:

    @Tony P.: That’s some world class silly right there.

    ReplyReply
  241. 241

    When is he going to make a statement about Kashmir? Because that’s one fire he hasn’t added fuel to, yet.

    ReplyReply
  242. 242

    @trollhattan: It uses localstorage, which (by default) should persist within the browser for quite some time.

    ReplyReply
  243. 243
    different-church-lady says:

    @VincentN: This makes sense until you consider that he might be innocent in his own mind and guilty in reality.

    ReplyReply
  244. 244

    Might be a good idea to listen to your constituents, Senator Franken. They are the ultimate arbiters.

    That’s how this is supposed to work in a democratic republic. Right?

    If you don’t know how to use a torch or a pitchfork, don’t pick one up.

    ReplyReply
  245. 245
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cacti: I’m not backing down from a fight to defend a groper because I wouldn’t defend a groper. The party has tried defending these people in the past and it always backfires, because Democratic voters tend to care about this stuff and the truth always comes out. Whine all you want about how it’s not fair, because Republicans get away with it, etc. The rest of us are going to move on.

    ReplyReply
  246. 246
    Betty Cracker says:

    @TenguPhule: Here’s a possibility: rational people might disagree with you on the facts. But in any case, those six “FEMALES” are worse than Russia, voter suppression, the GOP, etc.? Utter nonsense.

    ReplyReply
  247. 247
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Perhaps the fight over Franken and division among Democrats is what Republicans want to see.

    Perhaps you and the others rushing to kick Franken out could stop doing what the Republicans want.

    ReplyReply
  248. 248
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Democrats are so busy infighting that the real enemy is able to do what they want. We need to focus on them, especially since I would bet good money this is Ruspublican ratfuckery.

    ReplyReply
  249. 249
    Amir Khalid says:

    Forcing Franken’s resignation before Ethics Committee has determined he did anything wrong is unjust. Insisting he go because of the “optics” is self-defeating for his party: it will have removed one of its better legislators, without getting in return even the slightest bit less hatred from the Republican party or voter base or the right-leaning mainstream media or for that matter the Wilmerist tendency. As a foreign Democratic sympathiser, I oppose unilateral surrender.

    ReplyReply
  250. 250
    cintibud says:

    I want Franken to remain so we can have the ethics hearing he called for. I can’t believe the GOP will allow those hearing if he is gone. Let’s get ALL the rot out, not just the Democratic rot

    ReplyReply
  251. 251
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Amir Khalid: This.

    ReplyReply
  252. 252
    Raoul says:

    @MattF: As a Minnesotan, I will say that Franken is far more than competent. He kept his head down and worked during his (delayed start) first term. He followed Senta decorum.
    And he has championed things like Net Neutrality, which as we know is probably on the chopping block.
    I will be very sad to see him go based on his record, the decency I’ve always seen him offer as an elected, and because we shouldn’t have a f-king Senate made up only of cutthroat lawyers.

    ReplyReply
  253. 253
    But her emails!!! says:

    If he goes then the stories blow up, is it all “oopsie, sorry no takebacks”? Or does the story just go away so there’s no chance of that?

    If he resigns, that’s it. As far as the press and populace are concerned, it would be an admission of guilt to all accusations. There would be no ethics investigation. As a result, we would never hear testimony from the photographer who snapped the original picture or the identities of Franken’s accusers.

    In case anyone is curious, this is why he can’t resign. Due process has to happen or we’re opening ourselves up to a whirlwind of anonymous accusations.

    ReplyReply
  254. 254
    TenguPhule says:

    @ruemara:

    We are getting a lot of growing bad press. If we had a decent media, this wouldn’t be so necessary.

    You seem to be under the mistaken belief that forcing Franken to resign would change this somehow.

    We will get all of the blame and none of the credit. That’s how our media works.

    ReplyReply
  255. 255
    The Moar You Know says:

    We’ve been saying for the past couple years how the Democratic Party desperately needs to define itself and show voters why we are better than Republicans

    @Uncle Ebeneezer: You’ve been here a while so you get the courtesy of a reply, not being tossed into the pie filter.

    As a Democrat, what you are showing me as a Democratic voter is not that we are better than Republicans, but that we are weaklings who will roll over for a story that is sourced less well than any random high school rumor. And that is making it FUCKING DIFFICULT to see the value in being a Dem voter. Period. Why give money and time when it all gets thrown on a bonfire designed to be the world’s biggest virtue signal? I’m not here to show people I’m better than them; I’m not. I’m not here to show people that the Democratic party is better than the Republican party, because it isn’t. They just have different interests. I’m here to win elections and get the legislation I want passed. Period. If the Democratic party cannot do that I will find someone else who can.

    ReplyReply
  256. 256
    PJ says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: How are we weakening our power? How does Franken staying in office blunt Democratic effectiveness? You haven’t elaborated on that at all, just that the “bloodletting” looks bad. Did Bill Clinton staying in office weaken the Democrats? If he had resigned when the Whitewater investigation started, or when all the allegations about women were brought against him, would more people have decided that they were going to vote Democratic?

    I know what looks weak to me — when a Democrat gives up in the face of unsubstantiated allegations.

    If there’s more to this than we know, but someone else does know, then let them come out with it. Hell, maybe they could even present it to the Ethics Committee! As someone pointed out above, Gillibrand has her own agenda (as does likely Harris), and eliminating a potential rival for 2020 would be a good thing for both of them.

    ReplyReply
  257. 257
    Kay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Mnem would you think Franken should resign if there were no GOP harassers still serving? Is it context? It’s fine if it is – I see how it’s a double standard and unfair but do you think the (alleged) behavior should mean resignation apart from what Republicans do?

    ReplyReply
  258. 258
    TenguPhule says:

    @But her emails!!!:

    In case anyone is curious, this is why he can’t resign. Due process has to happen or we’re opening ourselves up to a whirlwind of anonymous accusations.

    You’re not supposed to bring logic into this lynch mob. What will the neighbors think?
    //

    ReplyReply
  259. 259
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Trentrunner Reckoning:

    Sorry, the guy who excused Sam Seder’s rape joke is lecturing us about promoting rape culture?

    Nice try, asswipe. You’ve already demonstrated for all of us that this is based in your personal animosity against Franken, not any kind of “principle.”

    ReplyReply
  260. 260
    Ohio Mom says:

    @different-church-lady: I think I said this before: I knew someone who was caught up in a small, local version of the day care witch hunts back in the early 1980s. It was totally baseless and very traumatic.

    I say let there be an investigation. This isn’t like that Republican who just got caught in a motel room with an underage boy — we really don’t know what Franken did or didn’t do.

    Let’s slow down. Everything — tax reform, responses to sexual abuse accusations — doesn’t have to be done at breakneck speed.

    ReplyReply
  261. 261
    Cacti says:

    @TenguPhule:

    But somehow Franken must go, because “believe the women!”

    Fuck no, I don’t believe these particular women.

    The accusations should be investigated in good faith by the Ethics Committee.

    At that point, any anonymous accusers can step out of the shadows, put themselves under penalty of perjury, and speak their piece.

    ReplyReply
  262. 262
    different-church-lady says:

    Having moral standards is not a bad thing.

    Ignoring the complications of those standards when they interface with an amoral world is not a good thing.

    ReplyReply
  263. 263

    @schrodingers_cat: Oops sorry, wrong thread.

    ReplyReply
  264. 264
    SatanicPanic says:

    @The Moar You Know: What did the party get out of protecting Bob Filner?

    Mayor Kevin Faulconer (R) and a deadly hepatitis outbreak.

    ReplyReply
  265. 265
    Sab says:

    @Trentrunner Reckoning: NARAL liked Joe Lieberman even though he voted Alito out of the judiciary committee. NARAL just wants to go on as a political entity. They aren’t actually on our side. I used to defend them against my prolife Catholic husband until the Lieberman thing. Now I don’t. The right is right on one thing, every vote matters, even on procedural issues.

    ReplyReply
  266. 266
    The Moar You Know says:

    This is kind of hysterical.

    First, the left really isn’t doing that great resisting. It just kind of happens as a reflex. Second, don’t count on the midterms when the other party is actively trying to suppress your ability to turn out voters. Third, what the fuck does any of this matter if you can’t unseat a party and a president that will gut women’s issues and rights? What have you won when you clearly stand to lose so much more in the short and long term?

    NOTHING.

    You will get your asses kicked repeatedly because you are playing the game with people who have no shame, no morals, no qualms about destroying their political opponents. The truth doesn’t matter to them at all. They sure as fk don’t care what you think about it.

    So how do you beat these guys? Because Pelosi, Schumer, the Democratic Party, and the online left don’t seem to have a clue. And if you can get your opponents to gut themselves for you, well, why not? Party of raggedy old fools.

    @jay: I agree. Every word.

    ReplyReply
  267. 267
    TenguPhule says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    But in any case, those six “FEMALES” are worse than Russia, voter suppression, the GOP, etc.? Utter nonsense.

    We can fight the others. But having to fight those six within our own party brings us no benefits.

    In this time and place, yes they did worse. We are fighting for our lives here and those six just slammed a rock on our trusted left hand. We do not have the luxury of self-mutilating ourselves in the traditional Democratic fashion.

    ReplyReply
  268. 268
    Amir Khalid says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    Trump will never make a statement about Kashmir. He has never heard of Led Zeppelin. Also too, he’s not trying to build a golf resort there.

    ReplyReply
  269. 269

    (Edited from my remarks at Talking Points Memo)

    Franken, who has admitted fault and is willing to be investigated, will likely be made to resign, while Moore, with far more evidence of far worse conduct, has not admitted fault and will likely be seated. The lesson, to any harasser or rapist, is obvious.

    “I expect more allegations of misconduct on the left to pop up. Not because there are numerically more, but because the right will actively seek out cases on the left to balance the elephant grabbing the women in the room.” – “Spocko,” How the Right Weaponizes Accusations to Destroy People and Institutions

    He is writing about the plainly false attack on Sam Seder, but I think it applies in this case, too. I think it is important that we put procedures in place to judge these accusations fairly, otherwise we will end up returning to Victorian prudery and hypocrisy.

    ReplyReply
  270. 270
    tobie says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Perhaps the fight over Franken and division among Democrats is what Republicans want to see.

    Exactly. Which is why it’s so important to call a hit job what it is. This is a hit job. Franken is being framed. Calling for him to resign based on sketchy and dubious allegations is doing the Republican’s work for them.

    ReplyReply
  271. 271
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    @PJ: We are wasting our time in this thread. This is a political calculation, not a moral one. (And I’m gonna leave after this comment because I have other stuff to do).

    How does Franken staying in office blunt Democratic effectiveness?

    Because he is an easy target for Republicans now. Bill Clinton was President, which is different from a Senator. Presidents aren’t replaced as easily.

    If there’s more to this than we know, but someone else does know, then let them come out with it.

    You are saying that the bloodletting should continue. I say, just no.

    ReplyReply
  272. 272
    Jack the Second says:

    So here’s my fucking question.

    How many times does the Democratic Party need to prove itself by kicking its garbage to the curb while the Republicans stand firm behind their rapists, their pedophiles, their abusers, their odiously corrupt and morally bankrupt politicians, before the mainstream media admits that one party – the Democratic Party – has a moral backbone and the other is utterly immoral?

    That’s all I want to fucking know.

    ReplyReply
  273. 273
    Cacti says:

    I wonder what the level of correlation is between those BJ commenters/front pagers who think Franken should be run out of town on a rail, and those who previously believed Edward Snowden to be a truth telling, whistle blowing patriot?

    My unscientific guess would be: pretty fucking high.

    ReplyReply
  274. 274
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cacti: Agreed and counter signed.

    ReplyReply
  275. 275
    germy says:

    Senator Franken will be making an announcement tomorrow. More details to come.— Sen. Al Franken (@SenFranken) December 6, 2017

    ReplyReply
  276. 276
    John Carter says:

    Betty,
    I didn’t say worse. I said they caused more damage. Look at the upset all over the blogosphere right now. These people are upset that someone is being thrown under the bus without known evidence or identifiable accusers while Republican accusers have identified themselves.

    And in my opinion, will be a psychological factor in some male’s ability to see women in what should be the new 21st century light.

    Regardless of anyone’s opinion or utter nonsense, it’s become a very divisive issue that should have been thought out before beiing called out. Seems no one thought about the consequences of their comments.

    ReplyReply
  277. 277
    Kay says:

    Dave Weigel‏Verified account
    @daveweigel
    35m35 minutes ago
    More
    #ALSen update: @GDouglasJones has called on Al Franken to resign.

    Just thought I’d sprinkle some gasoline around

    ReplyReply
  278. 278

    @Amir Khalid: Kashmir valley is a paradise, that’s what Shah Jahan said (the builder of the Taj and the Jama Masjid in Delhi)

    ReplyReply
  279. 279

    @Raven Onthill: The Seder thing is so fucking stupid.

    ReplyReply
  280. 280
    TenguPhule says:

    @Jack the Second: Forever, Katie.

    ReplyReply
  281. 281
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cacti: There you go again. Fuck you. I never had anything good to say about Snowden.

    ETA- while I’m at it- I never voted for Stein, I don’t like Bernie Sanders and Glenn Greenwald is an ass.

    ReplyReply
  282. 282
    Sab says:

    @Kay: I put my lawn mower in storage for the winter.

    ReplyReply
  283. 283
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    It’s fine if it is – I see how it’s a double standard and unfair but do you think the (alleged) behavior should mean resignation apart from what Republicans do?

    From what I’ve seen so far, the alleged behavior doesn’t seem bad enough to require immediate resignation. Official censure and maybe a fine if the allegations are found to have substance. But it seems like we are demanding the death penalty for minor allegations here.

    ReplyReply
  284. 284
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cacti: Interesting, I thought Snowden was a shithole from the start.

    ReplyReply
  285. 285
    Citizen Alan says:

    @TenguPhule:

    He’s happy about it. There’s no question in my mind that he’s on the side of the Republicans, if not Vladimir Putin. And probably also a rapist.

    ReplyReply
  286. 286
    Cacti says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Your favorite song is “Surrender”, isn’t it?

    ReplyReply
  287. 287
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Kay: I think Doug Jones should shut the fuck up and focus on trying to beat Roy Moore. Oh, wait – I guess he’s made the political calculation that fuckin’ ALABAMA is going to stand up and cheer him for his virtue. And vote for him because of it!

    I wasn’t sure he was going to lose before, but I am now.

    ReplyReply
  288. 288
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    But it seems like we are demanding the death penalty for minor allegations here.

    Seems?

    They’re demanding a human sacrifice complete with heart removal.

    ReplyReply
  289. 289
    trollhattan says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Thanks for ‘splainin’. Will have to figure out what weird setting I have precluding this (although with auto-population of my nym and email one would think they’d be next to that delicious pie).

    ReplyReply
  290. 290
    But her emails!!! says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Because he is an easy target for Republicans now. Bill Clinton was President, which is different from a Senator. Presidents aren’t replaced as easily.

    So basically, the Democrats should execute our own the moment they get a target painted on them by Republicans, because Republicans would never repeatedly bomb a corpse or find another target to paint.

    ReplyReply
  291. 291
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Because he is an easy target for Republicans now.

    So what? All of them are. It’s not like Republicans need a real reason to tar Democrats as weak and corrupt.

    ReplyReply
  292. 292
    JaneSays says:

    @TenguPhule: Do we really want IOKIYAD to be our new standard? Because you know if the exact same accusations were being levied against Ben Sasse or John Thune or some other GOP senator, you would absolutely be calling for their resignation. As you should.

    We lose all moral high ground as soon as we start letting the same shit fly on our side that we blast when we see it happening on the other side.

    This is too many accusations to not being taken seriously at this point. I get the hesitation some had early on about calls for Franken’s resignation, but most offered the caveat, “as long as there aren’t a whole lot of other allegations”. Well, that ship has sailed. Sooner or later, enough needs to be enough.

    He’s gotta go. It’s time. We’re keeping the seat anyway.

    ReplyReply
  293. 293
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @John Carter: I didn’t say worse. I said they caused more damage. Look at the upset all over the blogosphere right now. These people are upset that someone is being thrown under the bus without known evidence or identifiable accusers while Republican accusers have identified themselves.

    if the blogosphere were representative of the country, we’d have 85 seats in the Senate and trump would’ve been laughed out of the Republican primary. If the blogosphere were representative of the Democratic party, Jill Stein voters wouldn’t have handed trump WI, MI and PA

    ReplyReply
  294. 294
    Cacti says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Interesting, I thought Snowden was a shithole from the start.

    Same here. Sometimes it’s lonely being right while the rest of the tribe is huffing the wacky tobacky.

    ReplyReply
  295. 295
    TenguPhule says:

    When the Civil War Comes, Republicans will simply accuse half of the Democrats of being sexual harassers and the other half will cheerfully shoot them in the back.

    ReplyReply
  296. 296
    Betty Cracker says:

    @TenguPhule: I get it now — I’m not part of your “we.” And I’m okay with that! :)

    ReplyReply
  297. 297
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cacti: You know I already responded to that accusation, dumbass, so you can shove it.

    ReplyReply
  298. 298

    @trollhattan:

    although with auto-population of my nym and email one would think they’d be next to that delicious pie

    That’s usually stored differently, across sessions and even devices (depending on your setup). localstorage is …very local.

    ReplyReply
  299. 299
    rikyrah says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    You HONESTLY think they’re going to stop at Franken and Conyers?

    Really? Seriously?

    Got rid of two WITHOUT HAVING TO PUT ANYONE UNDER OATH.

    Are you all that phucking dense that you can’t see a GOP ratphuck for the trees?

    ReplyReply
  300. 300
    Mnemosyne says:

    @JaneSays:

    Do we really want Democratic Senators forced out of office based on anonymous accusations while Republicans like Farenthold continue to squat in office despite named accusers?

    ReplyReply
  301. 301
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Amir Khalid: “Optics” is a meme of the vermin of the Village. This has that vile harridan Cokie Robert’s fingerprints all over it.

    Fuck this shit. Let due process play out.

    ReplyReply
  302. 302
    Redshift says:

    Attention, mods! Can we have a policy that creating a new nym to evade the pie filter gets you banned, please? Especially now that the pie filter is built in, and doesn’t require hacking.

    ReplyReply
  303. 303
    bemused says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    Better fighters is what we really need.

    ReplyReply
  304. 304
    Kay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I think we see it differently, politically. You seem to see it as defensive. I really don’t. I see it as they made a decision to get rid of him for what they perceive as political benefit. Not defensive. Not reactive. Extreme, but a decision THEY made, not KellyAnne Conway.

    Because I agree that Democrats do too much defense and too much reacting. This feels calculated to me. Maybe the wrong calculation but not emotional or panicked. I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on the politics.

    ReplyReply
  305. 305
    TenguPhule says:

    @JaneSays:

    Do we really want IOKIYAD to be our new standard?

    None of the accusations against Franken have been substantiated.

    The ONLY thing against him is that one photo, which he apologized for.

    All the rest of it is smoke being blown by Republicans with an obvious agenda.

    ReplyReply
  306. 306
    Cacti says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    If we just give the Republicans Franken’s scalp, the public will surely reward us and the GOP will leave us alone.

    If we just give the Nazis the Sudetenland, etc.

    ReplyReply
  307. 307
    TenguPhule says:

    @rikyrah:

    Are you all that phucking dense that you can’t see a GOP ratphuck for the trees?

    Sadly, yes.

    SATSQ.

    ReplyReply
  308. 308
    JaneSays says:

    I think it’s all a moot point anyway. He’s going to resign in the next 48 hours. Then I guess we can all scream at each other some more, because that’s super productive.

    ReplyReply
  309. 309
    Kay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    It’s so “collegial” and clubby, too the Senate. They’re not free lancers. Christ they probably planned it and warned Franken.

    ReplyReply
  310. 310
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    I see it as they made a decision to get rid of him for what they perceive as political benefit.

    We agree on that. I just think that they’re wrong and they’re only going to make things worse for Democrats going forward by lowering the bar to say that Democratic politicians can be forced to resign over anonymous accusations.

    They basically just disarmed our ability to fight back against the next set of accusations. It was a very, very bad calculation IMO. We are now screwed in the midterms.

    ReplyReply
  311. 311
    Mnemosyne says:

    @JaneSays:

    We are now going to lose the midterms, because the Republicans are going to gin up anonymous accusations against every Democratic candidate in sight.

    But, hey, we drove Franken out of office based on anonymous accusarions. Yay us! That moral victory will sure help when our health insurance system collapses.

    ReplyReply
  312. 312
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Cacti:

    If we just give the Nazis the Sudetenland, etc

    I see what you’re saying, but bad historical example. Britain really didn’t have a choice at the Munich Conference. They weren’t ready for war and they couldn’t know for certain if Hitler would back down when confronted.

    ReplyReply
  313. 313
    TenguPhule says:

    @JaneSays:

    Because you know if the exact same accusations were being levied against Ben Sasse or John Thune or some other GOP senator, you would absolutely be calling for their resignation. As you should.

    No I wouldn’t. Not with this level of proof. I’d rightly suspect a Republican ratfuck trying to draw us into a false position in order to discredit the whole “believe the women” movement.

    Moore’s accusers got traction because Wapo went the extra mile to make sure their story got it right.
    They have evidence in the face of Moore’s denials.

    Look at the accusations against Franken without giving his accusers the benefit of the doubt. Does any of it not seem odd or suspicious? What evidence supports their claims?

    ReplyReply
  314. 314
    Cacti says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    We agree on that. I just think that they’re wrong and they’re only going to make things worse for Democrats going forward by lowering the bar to say that Democratic politicians can be forced to resign over anonymous accusations.

    Ding ding ding ding ding!

    Why did Lincoln favor Grant over his predecessors, and always stood by him in the face of criticism? Because “he fights!”. And that was what was needed to win the civil war.

    The Dems are a party full of McClellans. We need more Grants.

    ReplyReply
  315. 315
    Kay says:

    Republicans in Ohio are running a Trump campaign against Cordray. They’re calling him “crooked Cordray” and saying he “rigged” the primary. It’s not the same at all because there’s no Lefty in the race- the other candidates are as center Right as Cordray or further Right so they won’t be able to peel off liberals.

    Just no imagination. None. We’re going to win :)

    ReplyReply
  316. 316
    Miss Bianca says:

    @JaneSays: Yeah, just about as productive as calling resistance to pre-emptive surrender “IOKIYAD”. Personally, I’m hoping Al Franken tells us all to go to hell and he’ll see us at the ethics committee investigation.

    ReplyReply
  317. 317
    bemused says:

    @Kay:

    Al and his wife have probably been packing for a week.

    ReplyReply
  318. 318
    The Moar You Know says:

    Do we really want IOKIYAD to be our new standard?

    @JaneSays: Yes, I do. It would be a step, a start, towards leveling the playing field.

    That is one thing I want very much. There are others.

    ReplyReply
  319. 319
    different-church-lady says:

    @Mnemosyne: Purity is not pretty.

    ReplyReply
  320. 320
    balconesfault says:

    I’m ready for a hearing, and for people under oath.

    And for a standard established by an ethics committee as to what’s grounds for removal from the Senate, and what’s not.

    If an unwanted kiss to another adult is grounds for someone being unfit to serve in the Senate – I don’t want that to be a matter of Franken resigning.

    I want to see a bunch of those f***ers voting for that standard … and then being held to it themselves.

    ReplyReply
  321. 321
    WaterGirl says:

    @MazeDancer: I a hoping the announcement is that he plans to serve until the end of his term but that he will not be running again.

    ReplyReply
  322. 322
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    The next step is anonymous accusations of sexual misconduct against Cordray. You may think it sounds crazy because Cordray is such a straight arrow, but that won’t matter. The Republicans and their propagandists have figured out a winning strategy, and they will deploy it at every opportunity until the midterms.

    ReplyReply
  323. 323
    bupalos says:

    If resignation was going to put an R in his place, then it would be an argument. As it is, I really have no idea what the DEMOCRATS IS SPINELESS LOOZERS UNLESS WE IMMOLATE OVER FRANKEN crowd is doing. To me this one is a bit of a litmus on who wants to fight just for fighting sake, even if it’s for nothing and self-sabotaging. I’d RATHER have someone other than Franken in there, he’s perfect on policy but now a huge liability going forward in a state we should hold. He’s a risk that’s absolutely not worth it.

    ReplyReply
  324. 324
    Cacti says:

    @ Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) :

    I see w

    hat you’re saying, but bad historical example. Britain really didn’t have a choice at the Munich Conference. They weren’t ready for war and they couldn’t know for certain if Hitler would back down when confronted.

    Perfectly apt historical example. Britain lost its nerve. France sat behind its “impenetrable” Maginot line.

    If we’re not at the zero hour for America’s fascist moment, we’re at the edge of it. But we’re hoping handing the fascists a scalp will improve our political fortunes.

    Is there a single, real world example of that ever happening?

    ReplyReply
  325. 325
    PJ says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: The British failed to conceive that the Germans also weren’t ready for war, and would be far more ready for war in 1939 once they eliminated, without a shot being fired, 35 divisions mobilized on their eastern flank, obtained hundreds of thousands of forced laborers, and scooped up all of the Czechoslovak planes and tanks (which they would ride into France less than 2 years later) and, most importantly, munitions factories. All of that was foreseeable in 1938.

    ReplyReply
  326. 326
    WaterGirl says:

    @Sab: The first one is the hardest. Then you think “Why did I wait so long, i should have done this long ago.”

    ReplyReply
  327. 327
    TenguPhule says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Personally, I’m hoping Al Franken tells us all to go to hell and he’ll see us at the ethics committee investigation.

    If he does, he’ll win his next election in a landslide.

    Voters reward winners with balls.

    ReplyReply
  328. 328
    Tony P. says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    If the Democratic Party is too pure to contain Al Franken and too powerless to impeach He, Trump, there’s plenty of stupid to go around. I’d kill myself before supporting any Republican, but if the Democrats can’t stand up to the ratfuckers once in a while what’s the point of supporting them as a party? Show me an Anti-RatFucking Democrat who’s strong on civil rights, SS & Medicare, science, etc and she or he gets my vote. But A.R.F. comes first.

    ReplyReply
  329. 329
    different-church-lady says:

    @balconesfault:

    and then being held to it themselves

    …retroactively. Because that’s what we’re talking about.

    ReplyReply
  330. 330
    WaterGirl says:

    @satby:

    That doesn’t make me feel morally superior, it makes me feel like I support the stupid party.

    Well put.

    ReplyReply
  331. 331
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Mnemosyne: his first accuser has a picture to back up her story and is not anonymous, the second accuser is not anonymous and has IIRC a contemporary Facebook post about Franken grabbing her ass. You can argue that those accusations aren’t serious enough to warrant resignation, but it simply isn’t true that all the accusations are anonymous. And I think this latest one sounds made up out of whole cloth.

    I’m ambivalent about Franken, and given all the venom and histrionics in this thread, I apparently do have say it’s absurd that President Grabber is in the White House and a child molester is likely to be elected to the Senate. But those things would be true if Franken had kept his hands to himself kindergarten. In a rational world, the sensible thing to do would be to let the ethics procedure play out. That said, it’s not at all clear to me how “fighting” for Franken, in this atmosphere and with the electorate(s) we have, is a victory for Dems

    ReplyReply
  332. 332
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mnemosyne: As you probably know, the accusations against Franken aren’t all anonymous, and there’s a decent chance the Democratic consultant whose identity Politico withheld is known by the senators now calling for Franken’s resignation. Also, the original accusation came with a photograph that looked pretty fucking bad.

    I think reasonable folks can disagree on whether or not Franken should step down before an inquiry runs its course. I don’t think it’s reasonable to conclude “we’re doooooooomed” on the basis of one case that has some pretty unique factors attached to it, including the photo.

    ReplyReply
  333. 333
    Mike in DC says:

    How many women would have to come forward against Trump to force his resignation?
    My top two guesses are “100+” and “trick question–the GOP and the media would never force him to resign”.

    ReplyReply
  334. 334
  335. 335
    Miss Bianca says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Voters reward winners with balls.

    Well, in that case, the Democrats are so, SO fucked.

    ReplyReply
  336. 336

    @Tony P.: You type, but all I read is ‘stupid, stupid, stupid’

    ReplyReply
  337. 337
    TenguPhule says:

    @bupalos:

    He’s a risk that’s absolutely not worth it.

    Wrong.

    He is worth it. Otherwise no Democrat in office is.

    ReplyReply
  338. 338
    The Moar You Know says:

    So here’s my fucking question.

    How many times does the Democratic Party need to prove itself by kicking its garbage to the curb while the Republicans stand firm behind their rapists, their pedophiles, their abusers, their odiously corrupt and morally bankrupt politicians, before the mainstream media admits that one party – the Democratic Party – has a moral backbone and the other is utterly immoral?

    That’s all I want to fucking know.

    @Jack the Second: Important question and reply so I go all caps:

    THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

    Revise all planning accordingly. The media does not care about anything save for what is on the scoreboard, nor should they. Our purity and nobility will never get us anything, so stop acting as though it will and figure out a plan B.

    ReplyReply
  339. 339
    JaneSays says:

    @The Moar You Know: Cool.

    But if we get that, you know we can never credibly complain about their hypocrisy again, right?

    Your rationale sounds an awful lot like, “if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em”. At least in terms of how we expect politicians on our side to conduct themselves.

    ReplyReply
  340. 340
    'Niques says:

    @campionrules: You may not be a troll, but you sure sound like one. Let the Ethics Investigation decide.

    ReplyReply
  341. 341
    different-church-lady says:

    @Mike in DC:

    How many women would have to come forward against Trump to force his resignation?

    Infinity is a number, yes?

    ReplyReply
  342. 342
    Mnemosyne says:

    @bupalos:

    As it is, I really have no idea what the DEMOCRATS IS SPINELESS LOOZERS UNLESS WE IMMOLATE OVER FRANKEN crowd is doing.

    We’re pointing out that we have now set a precedent that Democratic politicians can be forced to resign over anonymous accusations with no further investigation. Do you really not see how that is going to backfire on us in a horrible way?

    ReplyReply
  343. 343
    TenguPhule says:

    @WaterGirl: Read a little further down. Mistaken identity.

    ReplyReply
  344. 344
    TenguPhule says:

    @JaneSays:

    But if we get that, you know we can never credibly complain about their hypocrisy again, right?

    This has not once stopped the Republicans from doing so.

    ReplyReply
  345. 345
    Cacti says:

    @bupalos:

    As it is, I really have no idea what the DEMOCRATS IS SPINELESS LOOZERS UNLESS WE IMMOLATE OVER FRANKEN crowd is doing. To me this one is a bit of a litmus on who wants to fight just for fighting sake, even if it’s for nothing and self-sabotaging.

    I agree that you have no idea.

    “Let’s do what Republicans want then beg them not to hurt us” is loser strategy.

    ReplyReply
  346. 346
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cacti: Some of the public will be happy that we’re not harboring gropers. Some will not care. We need to cater to the former, because “hey come volunteer at this office… where you might get groped, and if you do, we’ll expect you to shut up for the good of the party” is a tough pitch. But you go on believing that caring about stuff like being a party of non-gropers is capitulation.

    ReplyReply
  347. 347
    But her emails!!! says:

    We as Democrats need to create a protocol on how we handle these accusations and then apply it consistently in all such cases. The reason we’re getting hurt on this is that wer’re basically adlibbing and have no standard SOP we can point at when this happens which leave Democrats as a whole wide open to criticism. Democrats should draft this protocol in consultation with victims rights organizations and announce it. Maybe the DNC could spearhead the effort, because if it doesn’t seem to have anything else productive to keep it occupied.
    1. It should be announced broadly on media and necessary through adds
    2. It should include some sort of due process independent of the party
    3. It should be consistently applied in all cases
    4. It should be made clear that commentary and updates in these cases will be handled centrally. Not every Democrat tweets their own take on it.

    ReplyReply
  348. 348

    @different-church-lady:

    Infinity is a number, yes?

    It is many numbers!

    ReplyReply
  349. 349
    TenguPhule says:

    @JMG:

    If the Democratic Party cannot survive without Al Franken, it won’t survive period.

    If the Democratic party can’t stand by one of their own in the face of bullshit accusations, it doesn’t deserve to survive.

    Bring on the Civil Breakdown.

    ReplyReply
  350. 350
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I don’t think it’s reasonable to conclude “we’re doooooooomed” on the basis of one case that has some pretty unique factors attached to it, including the photo.

    We can make a bet on it, if you like. But we are definitely fucked now that we’ve set a precedent that a Democratic politician can be forced to resign on the word of a Hannity commentator and a group of anonymous accusers.

    There is a double standard, and that double standard has now been weaponized solely against Democrats. We’re fucked in 2018. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but we are.

    ReplyReply
  351. 351
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Don’t you mean its every number?

    ReplyReply
  352. 352
    Citizen Alan says:

    Prediction. Al Franken will resign, and the rapist Putin-lover Trentrunner will disappear and never post under that name again unless more vague accusations against Democrats pop up, because in the end he’s just a GOP Putin-loving rat fucker.

    ReplyReply
  353. 353
    WaterGirl says:

    @Nelle:

    Nope, nope, nope. Having an investigation is the best way that “me,too” doesn’t get weaponized against opponents.

    Pre-emptive resignations and firings play into the hands of the “Purity police” on one side and turn the Congress over to more deviants.

    Seriously, think. Don’t get stampeded.

    Absolutely true. All of it.

    ReplyReply
  354. 354
    different-church-lady says:

    @Major Major Major Major: All of them, in fact.

    ReplyReply
  355. 355
    RJM says:

    Maybe Franken should just switch parties… Democratic party ideals are intact, and the Republicans don’t seem to care. He can still stand for the ethics investigation, THEN there will be a precedent. Of course he’d lose his committee appointments, but that seems likely anyway and there would be one centrist in the Republican party.

    This is mostly a tounge in cheek response to the weaponization threat.

    ReplyReply
  356. 356
    TenguPhule says:

    @Betty Cracker: When you’re wrong Betty, you are really fucking out of the ballpark wrong.

    I don’t look forward to your apologies in 2018. We’re going to have bigger problems by then.

    ReplyReply
  357. 357
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Betty Cracker: If there’s anything I’ve learned about this crowd it’s that they’ll always return to “We’re doomed”

    ReplyReply
  358. 358
    debit says:

    @Trentrunner Reckoning:

    And you now know that I was right.

    I’ll leave you to reflect and, perhaps, feel requisite shame.

    Oh fuck you, you smug little piece of shit. Go ahead and be satisfied as we have lost one of our best fighters. When we find out that we’ve been played like with Shirley Sherrod, maybe you’ll pause to reflect and feel shame. But most likely you’ll just change your name again like a fucking coward. But don’t worry, whichever it is, I’ll pie it. Now fuck off and die.

    ReplyReply
  359. 359
    TenguPhule says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    But you go on believing that caring about stuff like being a party of non-gropers is capitulation.

    Being labeled gropers and executed on the basis of unfounded allegations is not going to end well for us.

    Just saying.

    ReplyReply
  360. 360
    Cacti says:

    I’m beginning to understand why so many of you “have no idea” what fighting anonymous charges against Franken will accomplish politically.

    It’s because fighting is an alien concept to you.

    ReplyReply
  361. 361
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Some of the public will be happy that we’re not harboring gropers. Some will not care.

    Actually, what will happen is that the Republicans will broadcast far and wide, See? The Democrats talk about equality, but they don’t really mean it, and they let Blacks and Jews grope your women. Vote for us, because we’re not hypocrites!

    And people will vote for them, because that was the entire point of this propaganda operation from day one. This ENTIRE THING was designed to make Republicans feel okay about voting for pedophile Roy Moore, because that Jew Franken was doing the same thing, and at least Moore will vote to end abortion.

    So, yay us! We got rid of a powerful Democrat to clear the way for Republicans to elect a pedophile! We’re so awesome!

    ReplyReply
  362. 362
    Stan says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    Britain really didn’t have a choice at the Munich Conference. They weren’t ready for war and they couldn’t know for certain if Hitler would back down when confronted.

    If only they’d taken up the USSR on its repeated proposals to create a UK-France-Soviet anti-Nazi alliance….but they didn’t, and the USSR won the war for them anyway as it turns out.

    ReplyReply
  363. 363
  364. 364
    Jager says:

    I don’t know Al Franken well, however I’ve had a private breakfast with him and had dinner with him. I was the GM of an Air America affiliate (please don’t get me started on how fucked up that organization was) We brought Al in to do his show live a couple of times, both times his driver was one of our staffers. She was extremely attractive, warm and yes, a little flirty. I called her yesterday and asked her if Al ever made a move on her, Her answer, “Nope!” Al was alone with her at his hotel, in the car, in the green room, nothing. Al had his picture taken with a lot of listeners and fans, yeah he put his arm around them, he mugged and he flirted with the ladies, young and old. Nothing. Know what Al and I talked about at breakfast? The fact we both had daughters who were school teachers. From my experience with my fellow Democrats, we are way too eager to line up in a circular firing squad.

    ReplyReply
  365. 365
    WaterGirl says:

    @trollhattan: I just did a quick test. The pie list is browser specific, and also device specific. If you use Safari and Chrome, you have to pie the person in both places. I also have to pie the person again on my phone and on my iPad, even though I use Safari on all 3.

    The only time the pied people become un-pied is when they change their nym slightly. Then you have to pie them again with the new nym.

    ReplyReply
  366. 366
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    So when Roy Moore gets elected because Democrats are just as bad as Republicans when it comes to this stuff, will you admit this was all a psy-ops slam against Democrats, or cling to your belief that this was a real thing?

    ReplyReply
  367. 367
    Raoul says:

    @different-church-lady:

    In all of the examples I can think of, the seat always switches parties after the scandal.

    This is a real risk.
    Not to be pollyanna but a very well thought out selection by Gov Dayton – and by that I mean it has to be a woman, and one with very good MN credentials, name recognition and hopefully some existing ground game – could buck that trend.
    We should also have a Trump tailwind in 2018. Not that we can count on that or relax. Oh hell no. But if we can get a replacement in fast, and the complete-the-full-term vote can be structured to be on the ballot with Amy K and the rest of the slate next November (not a special elex), we can retain this seat, I think.

    ReplyReply
  368. 368
    justawriter says:

    And anyone who thinks the ratf*ckers aren’t lining up accusers for female democratic senators in preparation for 2020 will be in for a big surprise.

    ReplyReply
  369. 369

    @WaterGirl: This is what it means that “the filter uses localstorage” :)

    ReplyReply
  370. 370
    CindyH says:

    @rikyrah: AMEN AMEN AMEN rikyrah – I can’t for the life of me see how you go after Franken when no one is going after repugs over trump and roy moore – disgusting

    ReplyReply
  371. 371
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Actually, what will happen is that the Republicans will broadcast far and wide, See? The Democrats talk about equality, but they don’t really mean it, and they let Blacks and Jews grope your women. Vote for us, because we’re not hypocrites!

    As opposed to what they’re doing right now?

    This ENTIRE THING was designed to make Republicans feel okay about voting for pedophile Roy Moore, because that Jew Franken was doing the same thing

    NO, YOU DON’T SAY!

    Thanks Captain Obvious. Do you have any other brilliant insights to share?

    ReplyReply
  372. 372
    Leto says:

    @Mnemosyne: Exactly this.

    ReplyReply
  373. 373
    balconesfault says:

    @Mnemosyne: If Franken resigns, we need to see that as a basis of standard for Democrats.

    Don’t be stupid enough to think it will be a basis of standard affecting how Alabamans vote.

    ReplyReply
  374. 374
    WaterGirl says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I oppose unilateral surrender.

    Me, too.

    ReplyReply
  375. 375
    Mnemosyne says:

    @justawriter:

    And anyone who thinks the ratf*ckers aren’t lining up accusers for female democratic senators in preparation for 2020 will be in for a big surprise.

    Yup. This.

    ReplyReply
  376. 376
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Mnemosyne: It’s all a conspiracy!

    ReplyReply
  377. 377
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    So when Roy Moore gets elected because Democrats are just as bad as Republicans when it comes to this stuff, will you admit this was all a psy-ops slam against Democrats, or cling to your belief that this was a real thing?

    Do you even have to ask?

    ReplyReply
  378. 378
    VincentN says:

    Let’s take a deep breath here. Literally nothing we say here will make a difference to what happens tomorrow so there’s no point in making personal attacks or name calling.

    The Democratic Party is filled with people with different points of view. That has always been true. So don’t be acting surprised when people disagree with you about such a divisive subject.

    I do have to wonder though if the commenters on conservative blogs are divided at all about Roy Moore. Not in terms of whether he should keep running but whether they think what he did is wrong at all.

    Because I don’t think anyone here is disagreeing that what is alleged against Franken is wrong, if true. We’re just arguing over what level of proof is required to show that or if other political considerations for or against resignation are more important.

    But there are actual conservatives saying what Moore is accused of doing is fine according to the Bible or biology or whatever. Nobody here is saying the equivalent that unwanted groping or kissing is A-Okay.

    So we still got that going for us I guess.

    ReplyReply
  379. 379
    Cacti says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Some of the public will be happy that we’re not harboring gropers. Some will not care. We need to cater to the former, because “hey come volunteer at this office… where you might get groped, and if you do, we’ll expect you to shut up for the good of the party” is a tough pitch. But you go on believing that caring about stuff like being a party of non-gropers is capitulation.

    Right. Because the public really read Trump the riot act for admitting on an audio recording that he likes to sexually assault women.

    Hold your white flag high and wave it proudly. Moron.

    ReplyReply
  380. 380
    MomSense says:

    This is a Republican/Fox ratfucking operation. Let the process run its course. Let the ethics investigation proceed and the accusers make their case.

    For those of you calling for Franken to resign, are you bothered that one accuser played a part in the wrongful firing of Shirley Sherrod? Are you a bit suspicious when everyone at Fox and Roger Stone knew before the accusations went public? Are you curious about Hannity’s role in this?

    I don’t want Franken to resign, certainly not before an ethics committee investigation. If we cave on this, the Republicans will weaponize accusations against Democrats. This will destroy us in the midterms and it will do significant harm to the movement against sexual harassment and assault.

    ReplyReply
  381. 381
    Betty Cracker says:

    @TenguPhule: What was I wrong about in my comment to Mnem?

    ReplyReply
  382. 382
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @SatanicPanic: For a guy with your handle, you’re pretty much living the life on this thread.

    ReplyReply
  383. 383
    different-church-lady says:

    @Cacti:

    It’s because fighting is an alien concept to you.

    Well, unless, of course, it’s fighting each other on-line.

    ReplyReply
  384. 384
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Thanks Captain Obvious. Do you have any other brilliant insights to share?

    You’re the one saying that we should panic-rush Democrats into resigning over anonymous accusations, not me. I’m the one who thinks there should be an actual investigation.

    @balconesfault:

    If Franken resigns, we need to see that as a basis of standard for Democrats.

    If our new standard is “forced resignations based on anonymous accusations,” then we are fucked for both 2018 and 2020.

    ReplyReply
  385. 385
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cacti: Are you confused about the meaning of the word “some”?

    Because the public really read Trump the riot act for admitting on an audio recording that he likes to sexually assault women.

    You mean the most unpopular president in history? I wonder how he got that way. Maybe is because SOME of the public doesn’t like that. DUHHHHHHHH

    ReplyReply
  386. 386
    But her emails!!! says:

    @balconesfault:

    If Franken resigns, we need to see that as a basis of standard for Democrats.

    What exactly is that basis? We haven’t gotten all the facts surrounding the various accusations. Many of the accusers are anonymous. Would 7 anonymous accusations of butt grabbing be sufficient to force the resignation of a sitting US Senator?

    ReplyReply
  387. 387
    The Moar You Know says:

    But if we get that, you know we can never credibly complain about their hypocrisy again, right?

    Your rationale sounds an awful lot like, “if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em”. At least in terms of how we expect politicians on our side to conduct themselves.

    @JaneSays: Why would I give a shit about their hypocrisy? Christ, I am not in this to prove my moral superiority. Last on my list of things I like doing is complaining. I AM HERE TO WIN. Period. There are some things I think America needs and the Dem party has been supportive of those, which is why I vote for them. But if they can’t or won’t deliver (and it’s starting to look an awful lot like “won’t”) I have no reason to do that. Do you understand? Stop giving a fuck about people view us and just win something, anything, so we can get out of the 19th century and stay there. Because, as the GOP has been relentlessly showing us since Reagan, winners in American politics get what they want and losers don’t get anything, not even a consolation prize. So yeah, if we are winning I do not give a fuck about how my politicians are conducting themselves, and if we are losing, I care even less.

    ReplyReply
  388. 388
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Mnemosyne: Why don’t you just pie me already? You’re responses are either strawmen or non sequitors.

    ReplyReply
  389. 389
    Cacti says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    You mean the most unpopular president in history?

    Thank you for confirming your belief that it’s preferable to be a beloved loser than an unpopular winner.

    ReplyReply
  390. 390
    But her emails!!! says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    You mean the most unpopular president in history? I wonder how he got that way. Maybe is because SOME of the public doesn’t like that. DUHHHHHHHH

    I believe Trump’s more popular nationally than Franken currently is in Minnesota.

    ReplyReply
  391. 391

    @VincentN:

    I do have to wonder though if the commenters on conservative blogs are divided at all about Roy Moore. Not in terms of whether he should keep running but whether they think what he did is wrong at all.

    According to polls only like 13% of Alabama Republicans believe the allegations.

    ReplyReply
  392. 392
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Seven accusations. I’m not willing to believe they’re all lying.

    ReplyReply
  393. 393
    glory b says:

    @campionrules: “5.) We can’t afford to lose a Democrat the Republicans are trying to murder us all in our beds.”

    For people of color, this is kinda true. Or, if not in our beds, on the street.

    ReplyReply
  394. 394
    Cacti says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Well, unless, of course, it’s fighting each other on-line.

    Or fighting the Democratic candidate, because “Goldman-Sachs speeches, man.”

    ReplyReply
  395. 395
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cacti: You and Mnem should get a room. Neither of you idiots can respond to anything I say without building a strawman to light on fire.

    ReplyReply
  396. 396
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Yes, I can’t imagine why I think the woman who called for Shirley Sherrod to be fired and lied about what Sherrod said might be part of a ratfucking operation. I’m sure she’s a fine, upstanding person who only lies about Democrats when it’s politically expedient.

    ReplyReply
  397. 397
    SatanicPanic says:

    @But her emails!!!: Well yeah, Republicans are a greater percentage of the population nationally then they are in MN. Obviously SOME part of the public doesn’t like this stuff, and that SOME happens to be more numerous on our side.

    ReplyReply
  398. 398
    TenguPhule says:

    @Betty Cracker: You think this is a unique case that’s not going to repeat itself.

    And you are wrong. Republicans will do this again and again and again until nobody believes the women anymore.

    Two birds, one stone.

    Stepping down is literally the worst possible option here. For Franken and the party.

    ReplyReply
  399. 399
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Hey, you’re the one who thinks that the woman who demanded that Shirley Sherrod be fired was completely pure in her motives when she accused Franken, not me. If you dislike hearing the truth and want to stay in your righteous bubble, then pie me.

    ReplyReply
  400. 400
    TenguPhule says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Seven accusations. I’m not willing to believe they’re all lying.

    Three Republicans. Four anon.

    Does something about this not strike you as at all odd?

    ReplyReply
  401. 401
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Mnemosyne: I believe no such thing and have said so numerous times. You and your buddy Tweedledee keep ignoring what I actually write.

    ReplyReply
  402. 402
    geg6 says:

    @Chet:

    What the fuck is wrong with you?

    Jesus, what an asshole.

    ReplyReply
  403. 403
    Sab says:

    @TenguPhule: Yay!vGo,there. I am so tired of media encouraged firing squads. I have goldfish in a bowling my house that are more media savvy than modern Democrats.

    ReplyReply
  404. 404
    Cacti says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    I can’t believe that an adult has to have it explained to them that there are no “moral victories” in politics. Elections have a winner and loser. Nobody gets a participation ribbon or a consolation prize.

    “Most unpopular President” is like saying “worst Super Bowl winner”. It’s loser talk.

    ReplyReply
  405. 405
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cacti: I can’t believe you’re still having trouble understanding what I actually wrote.

    ReplyReply
  406. 406
    TenguPhule says:

    @MomSense:

    For those of you calling for Franken to resign, are you bothered that one accuser played a part in the wrongful firing of Shirley Sherrod? Are you a bit suspicious when everyone at Fox and Roger Stone knew before the accusations went public? Are you curious about Hannity’s role in this?

    Sadly, No. SATSQ.

    ReplyReply
  407. 407
    Cacti says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    No Neville Chamberlain, I understood it just fine.

    ReplyReply
  408. 408
    TenguPhule says:

    @Sab:

    I have goldfish in a bowling my house

    Is your goldfish interested in running for the Senate?

    ReplyReply
  409. 409
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    But you believe the anonymous accusers and think Franken should resign.

    ReplyReply
  410. 410
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cacti: Clearly you didn’t.

    ReplyReply
  411. 411
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    this thread reminds me of Eschaton in 2009. “Everyone I agree with on the internet knows Krugman is right why won’t Obama fight for what the American people all want even if they’re too stupid to know they want it!”

    “Because he’s really a misogynist Republican and the proof is Sonia Sotomayor!”

    (not an exaggeration)

    ReplyReply
  412. 412
    Betty Cracker says:

    @TenguPhule: Well, you’ve got me there: I will be very surprised if a photo of another Democratic senator pretending to grab a sleeping woman’s boobs is made public.

    ReplyReply
  413. 413
    The Moar You Know says:

    I’m beginning to understand why so many of you “have no idea” what fighting anonymous charges against Franken will accomplish politically.

    It’s because fighting is an alien concept to you.

    @Cacti: Fighting requires having the courage of your convictions. I am beginning to see what the core problem is that Dems have been having since the 1990s – they don’t have any courage. At all.

    ReplyReply
  414. 414
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @SatanicPanic: Seven shakey accusations.

    And at least two are from known Republicans/and or right wing operatives.

    This entire thing stinks of Roger Stone ratfucking.

    ReplyReply
  415. 415
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @justawriter: And anyone who thinks the ratf*ckers aren’t lining up accusers for female democratic senators in preparation for 2020 will be in for a big surprise.

    So you think they’ll be accused of sexual harassment, or you think the fact of oppo research is a big secret?

    ReplyReply
  416. 416
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Mnemosyne: First of all, there was at least one accuser besides the ratf*cker who is not anonymous and who said something on Facebook in 2010. Second, we don’t know that the latest accusers identity hasn’t been shared with other people. We don’t know all of Roy Mooore’s accusers either. Hey, here’s an idea, maybe some of you can try O’Keefeing Politico to prove they’ll print anything. Lemme know how that goes.

    ReplyReply
  417. 417
    The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion says:

    I don’t pretend to know the veracity of any of the accusations against Franken, or the political calculus of forcing his ouster (though I tend to agree with the commenters here who insist that due process, not guilt by acclamation, is the appropriate response, and the only one that doesn’t equal a strategy for political suicide. That being said, I DO know something about survivors of sexual assault. I’m one, and I’ve spent more than twenty years counseling sexual abuse survivors (among others), and as a mandated reporter serving children with every conceivable variety of damage (and some that weren’t conceivable to me before I began the job). Everyone deserves a hearing, if they have an accusation to make. That’s simple justice. On the other hand, “ALWAYS believe X .” is a recipe for a moral panic. In the 80’s, the mantra was “Children don’t lie about things like this”, so when the McMartin kids began talking about being taken to the moon and attending Satanic rites with their alleged abusers, people assumed there must be something to it. Three years ago, I worked with a young woman who had made unfounded rape accusations against no less than a dozen young men (including two who, unknown to her, were exclusively gay.) Seven of the others turned out to have airtight alibis with multiple witnesses. The state’s attorney filed charges on two of the other young men before the alleged victim’s habit of lodging false accusations became evident. After an investigation, it turned out that she was, in fact, being sexually exploited by her step-father. So she was telling the truth about being raped, but not about the guilty party. “Always” is just not applicable to human beings, much less human interactions.

    ReplyReply
  418. 418
    TenguPhule says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    And at least two are from known Republicans/and or right wing operatives.

    Three. The former army lady is a registered Republican too.

    ReplyReply
  419. 419
    MazeDancer says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I a hoping the announcement is that he plans to serve until the end of his term but that he will not be running again.

    Thinking maybe sort of opposite of that might satisfy and help prevent GOP taking out Dems as they please.

    Franken says he didn’t do any of this, he says he is going to step aside, because what matters now is women come first, and he doesn’t want to distract from MeToo movement. And that he is going to get his ethics review to clear his name. And then run again.

    If elected Dems can’t use ethics inquiry, then GOP will claim all kinds of malarkey.

    ReplyReply
  420. 420
    JaneSays says:

    @TenguPhule: And?

    The Republicans are objectively speaking, vile pieces of shit when it comes to the matter of hypocrisy.

    So you think the best way to beat them is to emulate them? That it’s high time that our side behave like vile hypocritical pieces of shit, too?

    ReplyReply
  421. 421
    Miss Bianca says:

    @The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion: Hey, what do you think you’re doing, weighing in here with an opinion based on experience that counsels caution and moderation and no rush to judgement? Da fuq outta here!//

    @JaneSays: Yes, that’s right, Jane. What we’re saying is not that there ought to be some standard of objective judgement, like a hearing or something, to deal with accusations, but that we really just crave the freedom to behave like vile hypocritical pieces of shit. How very, very astute of you to have sussed that out. There, happy now?

    ReplyReply
  422. 422
    glory b says:

    @Trentrunner Reckoning:This is more important than tribalism.

    Uh huh. We’ll be saying that to each other as they lead us off to the camps.

    ReplyReply
  423. 423
    Barbara says:

    I haven’t read everything. I guess here is my view:

    1. Only Al Franken knows the truth about each of these allegations. I say this uncategorically: he almost certainly knows what the right thing to do is and I hope he is honest and explains what that is without dissembling or justifying indefensible behavior.

    2. Some allegations strike me as more credible than others, and while they don’t even begin to approach what some others have done, including John Conyers and Roy Moore, they reflect unseemly and problematic behavior, in some cases simple assault.

    3. I like Franken. He’s on the side of good and he is supremely smart, both things that make him an asset for us and a threat to Republicans. Notwithstanding, you can’t view allegations of assault only through that lens.

    4. As a rule, I think politicians shouldn’t resign unless they have done something illegal. I think a lot of the push for resignation and replacement and recalls is really thwarting voters and democratic processes. Whether it’s Grey being forced out as governor or other similar post-election do overs. I think voters should have the last say. Gillibrand, et al. have their own reasons for going public versus pushing Franken in private. Basically, I don’t care what Gillibrand or Hirono think about this.

    5. I come back to what I thought the first time allegations surfaced: the default remedy is “don’t run again.” Or at least, finish out the session (until January of 2018).

    6. Everyone has to agree that however it is resolved for Franken, that’s the new standard going forward. If some other person, like a certain senator who used to write pornographic stories to make a living, is suddenly subject to allegations of unwanted touching and knicky knack with his female staff, we don’t get a mulligan. He goes too.

    7. All of the above is true even if that makes Democrats subject to a blistering double standard when compared to Republicans. That, among other reasons, is why deliberation is better than any knee jerk resolution, whether pro- or anti-Franken.

    ReplyReply
  424. 424
    TenguPhule says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    First of all, there was at least one accuser besides the ratf*cker who is not anonymous and who said something on Facebook in 2010.

    The one who claimed he groped her in front of her husband, who was taking their picture together in the middle of a public fair. And the picture doesn’t show it and the husband didn’t see it. Nor did anyone else, apparently.

    And they’re Republicans.

    Does nothing about this setup not look questionable to you?

    ReplyReply
  425. 425
    glory b says:

    @Amaranthine RBG: Due process is ALWAYS the answer.

    We’re supposed to be a country of laws, not men, right?

    ReplyReply
  426. 426
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    First of all, there was at least one accuser besides the ratf*cker who is not anonymous and who said something on Facebook in 2010.

    Great, we now demand instant resignations after one (1) person with a motive to exaggerate makes an accusation.

    Second, we don’t know that the latest accusers identity hasn’t been shared with other people.

    Yes. THAT’S WHAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH.

    I realize that you are perfectly fine having Democrats be forced to resign based on anonymous accusations. I am not. That is a basic difference between us.

    We don’t know all of Roy Mooore’s accusers either.

    The Moore story began with four named, on the record accusers. More named, on the record accusers have come forward since then. But I realize that you think that named, on the record accusations are exactly the same thing as anonymous ones.

    Hey, here’s an idea, maybe some of you can try O’Keefeing Politico to prove they’ll print anything.

    Wait, you’re under the impression that Politico is not well-known for pushing stories that undermine Democrats? What rock were you living under in 2016? They were one of the primary outlets pushing Benghazi and emails.

    ReplyReply
  427. 427
    TenguPhule says:

    @JaneSays: Moral Purity is a luxury afforded only to the majority in power. And again, if bullshit accusations are the rule for condemning our own, fuck the rules.

    ReplyReply
  428. 428
    geg6 says:

    @satby:

    Come sit by me. I, too, am a rape victim and I don’t want him to resign without an investigation. I don’t see any Republicans resigning. Is Farenthold still in office? Is Trump still polluting the Oval Office? Is the GOP still supporting Roy Moore?

    Plus, the women I believe are the women of his campaign and office and SNL who have stated in no uncertain terms that he was never in any way disrespectful of them. See, I believe the women. The ones who have worked with him for years and years and who have nothing but good things to say about him.

    ReplyReply
  429. 429
    Cacti says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    The Moore story began with four named, on the record accusers. More named, on the record accusers have come forward since then. But I realize that you think that named, on the record accusations are exactly the same thing as anonymous ones.

    It’s almost as if there’s a reason why the right to confront your accusers in a criminal proceeding is black letter Constitutional Law.

    ReplyReply
  430. 430
    Mnemosyne says:

    @The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion:

    After an investigation, it turned out that she was, in fact, being sexually exploited by her step-father. So she was telling the truth about being raped, but not about the guilty party.

    FWIW, that’s what seems to have happened in the Duke lacrosse case as well. The reason the accused players were able to be cleared so quickly was that the victim went to the ER after she was raped and had a rape kit done, and the defense lawyers were able to use the DNA evidence that had been collected to clear their clients.

    ReplyReply
  431. 431
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Mnemosyne: See, even when you try to respond, you just can’t resist.

    But I realize that you think that named, on the record accusations are exactly the same thing as anonymous ones.

    You can’t resist building strawmen!

    Wait, you’re under the impression that Politico is not well-known for pushing stories that undermine Democrats?

    I am under no such impression. I’m saying that I am not willing to assume they made it up. But you test that MnemOKeefe, I dare you.

    ReplyReply
  432. 432
    Tony P. says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    @Tony P.: You type, but all I read is ‘stupid, stupid, stupid’

    Are your eyes thatbad?
    –TP

    ReplyReply
  433. 433
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    I’m saying that I am not willing to assume they made it up.

    Well, you be you, then. And someone should have told you that the Brooklyn Bridge was not actually for sale before you gave all your money to that guy who “sold” it to you.

    ReplyReply
  434. 434
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Mnemosyne: OK Alex Jones!

    ReplyReply
  435. 435
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @SatanicPanic: You’re the one who is reading off stuff from the Infowars playbook.

    ReplyReply
  436. 436
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Here, I’ll make a bet with you. If it comes out after the 2018 midterms that the accusations were made up, you donate $50 to Planned Parenthood. If the anonymous accusers come forward and have credible stories of actual abuse, then I’ll donate $50 to a charity of your choice. Put up or shut up.

    ReplyReply
  437. 437
    justawriter says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think accusations of sexual harassment are likely and I would put the timing of them to be about two weeks before the National Convention.

    ReplyReply
  438. 438
    Davebo says:

    @Barbara:

    Perfectly reasonable and we’ll find out tomorrow what Al has decided to do one way or another.

    ReplyReply
  439. 439
    Raoul says:

    Not sure how to read these tea leaves.

    @kpottermn
    Minnesota DFL party chair @kenmartin73: “I have spoken with Senator Franken’s senior staff today to encourage him to do the right thing. I will wait until his announcement tomorrow to comment further.”

    Probably means ‘leave me alone until it’s official’ but there’s wiggle room in interpreting the encouraging + awaiting. Huh.

    ReplyReply
  440. 440
    Cacti says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    I’m saying that I am not willing to assume they made it up.

    Neither were the Judges in the Salem Witch Trials concerning the alleged victims.

    ReplyReply
  441. 441
    VincentN says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    Fighting requires having the courage of your convictions. I am beginning to see what the core problem is that Dems have been having since the 1990s – they don’t have any courage. At all.

    This is exactly what I’m talking about. The people who disagree with you have their own convictions. They don’t think they’re surrendering. They think they’re fighting for a different cause. But by all means, dismiss every Democrat who disagrees with you as a feckless loser. Are you going to join a different party or abstain from politics? If not, what’s the point of alienating potential allies?

    ReplyReply
  442. 442
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Raoul: That is interesting. I suspect Senators Harris, Gillebrand, McCaskill, etc., have information that we do not. Maybe we’ll find out the whole story tomorrow.

    ReplyReply
  443. 443
    glory b says:

    @Betty Cracker: Yeah, and he also willingly let Wilmer lead him around the country on that stupid “Unity Tour,” letting Berinebros boo him at every stop while he sat there and took it, with Wilmer smirking in the background. I wanted him, but he’s been something of a disappointment.

    ReplyReply
  444. 444
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Betty Cracker: I hope we find out

    as I’ve said, I’m deeply ambivalent about Franken and annoyed by the histrionics in this thread, but politicians making public pronouncements and calls for resignation based on secret information make me nervous. I remember Tom Delay calling on Senators to go read the secret files during Clinton’s impeachment

    ReplyReply
  445. 445
    Raoul says:

    @Cacti:

    The accusations should be investigated in good faith by the Ethics Committee.

    Looking at the six members, it is possible that there is good faith from the three GOPs. But basically every institution the Republicans touch is probably shit.

    ReplyReply
  446. 446
    themann1086 says:

    Named accuser. But sure, keep lashing out, it’s a great look.

    ReplyReply
  447. 447
    Tom says:

    @Raoul: I agree with Raoul. Let’s also remember that if Al goes while Trump stays the difference between the parties is stark, and on an issue where white college educated women can readily tell who’s got their interests at heart and who’s fine with pedophiles.

    ReplyReply
  448. 448
    Mnemosyne says:

    @themann1086:

    So he should resign immediately?

    ReplyReply
  449. 449
    TenguPhule says:

    @themann1086: He squeezed/hugged her waist during a photo. She was offended by it.

    Perhaps you didn’t actually read it before posting?

    ReplyReply
  450. 450
    debit says:

    @Tom: Not to be a negative Nellie, but do you really think so? Republicans shut down the entire legislative process for years to no comment or objection, but Dems hold up one thing and they are History’s Greatest Monsters. Republicans shut out our choice for the Supreme Court and no one cares, but let one Senator try to hold up a massively unqualified judge and we’re traitors.

    It doesn’t matter what happens with Franken because he’s always going to be that filthy liberal sex offender and Roy Moore will always be that good Christian Republican. We can’t win these people. They are without logic, or they simply don’t care. We cannot win these people over so why should give in to them?

    ReplyReply
  451. 451
    Mnemosyne says:

    @themann1086:

    Second question: is what Franken did equally as bad as what Murray Miller did, or is there a difference between the two?

    ReplyReply
  452. 452
    glory b says:

    @trollhattan: See Shirley Sherrod and ACORN for your answer.

    ReplyReply
  453. 453
    marcopolo says:

    For all the folks complaining about the anonymity of Franken’s accusers, this just dropped:

    In mid-November, a Los Angeles radio host named Leeann Tweeden stepped forward to claim that Senator Al Franken had shoved his tongue down her throat under the pretext of a rehearsal for a sketch he’d written. The coup de grace was a photograph of a sleeping Tweeden and the now-senator pretending to grab her boobs for the camera.

    There was an instant cognitive dissonance with Democrats on Twitter. People like Franken. Democrats need Franken. See, the accuser had been on Sean Hannity’s show. She must therefore be a right-winger. She could have been put up to this, they speculated. Roger Stone had tweeted that the “touchy” Franken was about to be exposed six hours before the story dropped. That’s fishy, they surmised. They all sounded paranoid, irrational, and conspiratorial. But that’s how we all sound these days.

    I assumed Franken would step down later that day. Tweeden’s story rang true to me. I’d told myself I was the only one. I’d been groped by Franken in 2009.

    I think we have to suspect that all of the Democratic senators who have come out over the past few hours telling him it was time for him to resign knew this story was coming.

    ReplyReply
  454. 454
    Lyrebird says:

    @Sloane Ranger:

    …all women making allegations deserve a hearing. Franken has already asked for an Ethics investigation into his actions. We await the outcome of that. Roy Moore and President Trump should follow Senator Franken’s example. If they are innocent, as they claim, the investigation will vindicate them?

    Bolding mine,
    basically…

    THIS!!!!

    ReplyReply
  455. 455
    Fair Economist says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    is first accuser has a picture to back up her story and is not anonymous, the second accuser is not anonymous and has IIRC a contemporary Facebook post about Franken grabbing her ass.

    No. The first accuser has a picture showing the alleged groping NOT happening, and Franken mugging in a way that makes it very unlikely he did.

    Likewise, the second accuser claimed Franken groped her butt and as “proof” provided a picture – showing Franken’s hands in clear view and not anywhere near her butt.

    *Both* pictures refute the allegations as much as any picture possibly could. Doesn’t that make you suspicious about the allegations?

    ReplyReply
  456. 456
    Mnemosyne says:

    @marcopolo:

    I read the story. I still don’t think it’s a resigning offense. I understand that she was very upset by what happened, but to equate what happened to her with what happened to Aurora Perrineau seems over the top, frankly.

    ReplyReply
  457. 457
    TenguPhule says:

    @marcopolo: See me at @449.

    Now we’re down to “He squeezed/hugged my waist during a photo being taken where we were supposed to be close together. I was offended because not even my husband touches me that way in public.”

    This isn’t even sexual harassment any more, this is feefee level bullshit.

    ReplyReply
  458. 458
    geg6 says:

    @marcopolo:

    He put his hand around her waist during a photo and squeezed and this is now groping? Fuck that shit.

    ReplyReply
  459. 459
    Cacti says:

    @Fair Economist:

    Likewise, the second accuser claimed Franken groped her butt and as “proof” provided a picture – showing Franken’s hands in clear view and not anywhere near her butt.

    The third accuser who said Franken grabbed her breast showed a picture with his hand clearly on her shoulder blade, and in a body position where he would have had to contort himself around her back to have touched her breast.

    ReplyReply
  460. 460
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    I just want to say Franken has permanently destroyed the dignity and gravitas of comedians as a social class.

    ReplyReply
  461. 461
    AliceBlue says:

    @marcopolo:
    Jesus. Next it’s going to be “Al Franken looked at me once.”

    ReplyReply
  462. 462
    glory b says:

    @Cacti: “At best we can salvage our reputation as the party that believes women…”
    Yeah, that helped us SOOO much with white women in the 2016 election.//

    ReplyReply
  463. 463
    TenguPhule says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I just want to say Franken has permanently destroyed the dignity and gravitas of comedians as a social class.

    This is obviously Hillary’s fault.

    ReplyReply
  464. 464
    debit says:

    @geg6: Don’t you understand that the waist is her No No place?

    ReplyReply
  465. 465
    TenguPhule says:

    @AliceBlue: “He turned me into a newt!”

    :”A newt?”

    “I got better.”

    ReplyReply
  466. 466
    Mnemosyne says:

    @glory b:

    That’s what’s weird about the story that marcopolo posted. The writer doesn’t seem to realize that a majority of white women voted for Trump. Either that, or she’s blaming Bill Clinton for their votes. I couldn’t quite figure it out.

    ReplyReply
  467. 467
    Cacti says:

    @TenguPhule:

    “He turned me into a newt!”

    :”A newt?”

    “I got better.”

    I’m just waiting for the scale to see if Al Franken weighs as much as a duck.

    ReplyReply
  468. 468
    AliceBlue says:

    For those who appreciate irony at its finest. Mitchell McConnell is now calling on Franken to resign.

    ReplyReply
  469. 469
    debit says:

    @AliceBlue: My point at #450 proven beautifully.

    ReplyReply
  470. 470
    lol chikinburd says:

    Having made the mistake of reading (OK, mostly skimming) this whole benighted thread I notice never quite finding answers to two questions of interest:

    1) How long ago was the first accusation, again? Three weeks ago? Might that have been enough time for the party to conduct a very quiet internal investigation to see if there was any there there? I’d wonder if these women Senators might know specific things we don’t, or at least would find it hard to believe that their information level was exactly the same as ours here in the blogosphere.

    2) Seeing as Franken looks set to step down now, what’s speculated about the identity of his replacement? Better be a woman, in any case. I don’t know that much about MN politics anymore.

    ETA: marcopolo‘s post is the first of the kind I’d been looking for.

    ReplyReply
  471. 471
    Tom says:

    @debit: I agree that it will not make a difference for some people – cough “brother-in-law” cough – but those people are a minority in the United States as a whole and in most states in particular. Let’s focus on those who are persuadable, and who (in many cases) have already persuaded themselves and are looking for someone they can admire to vote for.

    ReplyReply
  472. 472
    Fair Economist says:

    We are starting to get a pattern here. Franken squeezes shoulders and waists during photo ops. That’s not remotely a firing offense. I don’t even see how to count it as any kind of offense because IME it’s pretty common behavior. It’s also not *sexual* harassment.

    ReplyReply
  473. 473
    Cacti says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    That’s what’s weird about the story that marcopolo posted. The writer doesn’t seem to realize that a majority of white women voted for Trump. Either that, or she’s blaming Bill Clinton for their votes. I couldn’t quite figure it out.

    Somehow, you had to know this would be the fault of the almighty Clenis.

    ReplyReply
  474. 474
    Tom says:

    @AliceBlue: Tell you what, Mitch. Al will resign when Trump does.

    ReplyReply
  475. 475
    Cacti says:

    @lol chikinburd:

    How long ago was the first accusation, again? Three weeks ago? Might that have been enough time for the party to conduct a very quiet internal investigation to see if there was any there there? I’d wonder if these women Senators might know specific things we don’t, or at least would find it hard to believe that their information level was exactly the same as ours here in the blogosphere.

    Then they should have no trouble producing what they found. Whether Al Franken grabbed someone’s butt isn’t a state secret.

    Otherwise the “they must have special secret evidence” explanation can take a walk.

    ReplyReply
  476. 476
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mnemosyne: She’s saying that the party’s treating Bill Clinton as an honored elder statesman sent a message that Democrats are hypocrites on the sexual harassment issue and that many women may have thus concluded, “I might as well vote for the pussy-grabber.” I don’t agree — BILL Clinton wasn’t running, and Trump’s election will hurt women in ways that have nothing to do with his personal conduct. But she’s not wrong to point out that there has been some hypocrisy with regard to Bill Clinton. I don’t think it’s worth rehashing, but there it is.

    ReplyReply
  477. 477
    TenguPhule says:

    @Fair Economist:

    We are starting to get a pattern here. Franken squeezes shoulders and waists during photo ops.

    “Get into the frame, Closer, I said closer! That’s it! Now smile for the camera!”

    /SMH at our side.

    ReplyReply
  478. 478
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    But she’s not wrong to point out that there has been some hypocrisy with regard to Bill Clinton. I don’t think it’s worth rehashing, but there it is.

    There has been some hypocrisy regarding Bill’s behavior. I agree with you there. But I am very uncomfortable conflating ass-grabbing in a public situation with forcible rape, which is what that article does.

    ReplyReply
  479. 479
    PJ says:

    @marcopolo: He squeezed her waist. That’s his crime? Anecdotally, I would say there’s a fair portion of the population out there that are waist-squeezers – probably at least 10%. It’s not something I do, but I understand that the people who have done it to me are trying to make the 5 seconds it takes to take the photo less awkward, even though it ends up making it less comfortable.

    ReplyReply
  480. 480
    TenguPhule says:

    @PJ:

    He squeezed her waist. That’s his crime?

    And for that his heart must be cut out with a spoon and he must place it before the women while wailing and groveling for forgiveness.

    “Evil always wins because good is dumb.” -Dark Helmet, Spaceballs

    ReplyReply
  481. 481
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Also, too: I think the Republicans have successfully conflated Bill’s gross but consensual behavior with Republicans’ gross and non-consensual behavior, and that pisses me right off.

    ReplyReply
  482. 482
    Fair Economist says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Also, too: I think the Republicans have successfully conflated Bill’s gross but consensual behavior with Republicans’ gross and non-consensual behavior, and that pisses me right off.

    They’ve had lots of help. Yglesias was pushing that distortion just a week or two ago.

    ReplyReply
  483. 483
    Mnemosyne says:

    @PJ:

    People who are okay with being touched by strangers in that kind of situation tend to underestimate how much the people who don’t like being touched really really hate it and are deeply uncomfortable with it.

    But IMO, that’s a different conversation than the one about sexual assault and sexual harassment.

    ReplyReply
  484. 484
    glory b says:

    “We’re keeping the seat anyway.”

    For Franken, maybe. But once you establish the standard, expect the accusations to come fast and furious when we can’t.

    Then what?

    ReplyReply
  485. 485
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @TenguPhule: I can see a link between Franken problems and Hillary’s WWC rust belt problem in the election. A lot of those guys are terrified of some feminist making working while white and male a crime. I sure as heck know that if being seen as pleasing to the female gender becomes a job requirement I become permanently unemployable. Lack of due process in things like Franken don’t help that.

    ReplyReply
  486. 486
    WaterGirl says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I was trying to speak in plain language.

    ReplyReply
  487. 487
    Mnemosyne says:

    Another weird thing in that article: she conflates Juanita Broaddrick with Monica Lewinsky, as though Broaddrick’s accusations of rape and Lewinsky’s consensual sexual affair are the same thing. WTF?

    ReplyReply
  488. 488
    Cacti says:

    At this point, I think it’s entirely fair to ask who doesn’t want an Ethics Committee investigation and why not?

    ReplyReply
  489. 489
    Mike in Pasadena says:

    @Davebo: Fuck you very much.

    ReplyReply
  490. 490
    WaterGirl says:

    @MazeDancer: No ethics review once you are out of the Senate. The only way he gets that ethics review is if he stays.

    ReplyReply
  491. 491
    PJ says:

    @Mnemosyne: Of course it’s entirely different than sexual harassment and assault, but if it were a crime to make another person briefly uncomfortable while photos are taken, then we’d all be doing at least some community service.

    ETA: We’re almost at a TBogg unit – it’s the intra-party fighting that usually sends these over the top.

    ReplyReply
  492. 492
    TenguPhule says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: I suspect that the Republicans see this as a can’t lose strategy. Either they take out Democrats with fake accusations or the #metoo movement gets discredited as “bunch of lying sluts” with their voting base and probably a good chunk of the mushy middle. Either way, the real predators benefit.

    ReplyReply
  493. 493
    trollhattan says:

    @WaterGirl:
    Merci, you have done me and all of humanity a kind service! :-)

    ReplyReply
  494. 494
    But her emails!!! says:

    @marcopolo:

    For all the folks complaining about the anonymity of Franken’s accusers, this just dropped:

    I think that article may have just converted me into a Republican.

    ReplyReply
  495. 495
    Mnemosyne says:

    @PJ:

    Oh, holy fuck. I skimmed the article quickly and assumed she was saying he grabbed her ass, but you’re right. It was her waist:

    He immediately put his hand on my waist, grabbing a handful of flesh. I froze. Then he squeezed. At least twice.

    So, just to be clear, we are all supposed to demand that Franken resign because he put his hand on a woman’s waist while taking a picture. And squeezed when he did it.

    ReplyReply
  496. 496
    trollhattan says:

    @PJ:
    My parents went to Paris and all they brought me was one lousy TBogg unit.

    ReplyReply
  497. 497
    TenguPhule says:

    @glory b:

    Then what?

    Then we pray to the magical purity unicorns to shit us gold and moonbeams.

    ReplyReply
  498. 498
    The Moar You Know says:

    TBogg unit approaching!

    ReplyReply
  499. 499
    lol chikinburd says:

    @Cacti: I can see all kinds of reasons they’d want to maintain discretion, and don’t so much see the value of publicly trumpeting “This Is The Bad Stuff We Know About This Democrat”, but whatever. Information that takes resources to unearth isn’t “special secret” anything.

    ETA: damn, almost.

    ReplyReply
  500. 500
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    So, just to be clear, we are all supposed to demand that Franken resign because he put his hand on a woman’s waist while taking a picture. And squeezed when he did it.

    Yes.

    WASF.

    ETA: TBogg!

    ReplyReply
  501. 501
    WaterGirl says:

    @geg6: Thank you! I read that – her waist?!?!?!?!! And she considered that groping. Holy fucking shit, people have lost their minds.

    ReplyReply
  502. 502
    The Moar You Know says:

    I suspect that the Republicans see this as a can’t lose strategy. Either they take out Democrats with fake accusations or the #metoo movement gets discredited as “bunch of lying sluts” with their voting base and probably a good chunk of the mushy middle. Either way, the real predators benefit.

    @TenguPhule: It is, for them. Twofer, and it’s two things, women and Democrats, that they truly, deeply hate.

    ReplyReply
  503. 503
    WaterGirl says:

    @AliceBlue: I hope this latest ridiculous story and the hypocrisy of the turtle asking him to resign makes his decide to stay.

    ReplyReply
  504. 504
    PJ says:

    @trollhattan: If you save up 10, you can send them in for a signed picture of Cole mopping naked.

    ReplyReply
  505. 505
    Cacti says:

    @lol chikinburd:

    I can see all kinds of reasons they’d want to maintain discretion, and don’t so much see the value of publicly trumpeting “This Is The Bad Stuff We Know About This Democrat”, but whatever. Information that takes resources to unearth isn’t “special secret” anything.

    If they’re asking a duly elected U.S. Senator to leave office, there needs to be some compelling evidence for it. Having a kangaroo court of public opinion overturn the results of a democratic election is a dangerous path to take.

    ReplyReply
  506. 506
    debit says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Ralph [to his parents]: Mrs. Krabappel and Principal Skinner were in the closet making babies, and I saw one of the babies, and then the baby looked at me.
    Chief Wiggum: The baby looked at you? [picks up phone] Sarah, get me Superintendent Chalmers.

    ReplyReply
  507. 507
    The Moar You Know says:

    Thank you! I read that – her waist?!?!?!?!! And she considered that groping. Holy fucking shit, people have lost their minds.

    @WaterGirl: She knows goddamn well it isn’t groping. Doesn’t even matter now, the damage is done and we have done it entirely to ourselves.

    If we continue to allow ourselves to get played at this rate, 2018 will be a blowout election – for the GOP. I am fucking despondent right now about the Democratic party. We have nothing but a commitment to virtue politics and an addiction to losing, and I see no signs of that turning around at all.

    ReplyReply
  508. 508
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cacti:

    Having a kangaroo court of public opinion overturn the results of a democratic election is a dangerous path to take.

    Democratic Party: Hold my beer.

    ReplyReply
  509. 509
    TenguPhule says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    We have nothing but a commitment to virtue politics and an addiction to losing, and I see no signs of that turning around at all.

    Our party has learned absolutely nothing from 2016.

    I am increasingly less optimistic about 2018.

    ReplyReply
  510. 510
    WaterGirl says:

    @debit: I don’t know that reference but yeah, it’s that bad.

    I want to know how many people read the “He groped me, too!” and never read far enough to know that he squeezed her waist. We are going to lose an excellent sitting senator for no good reason.

    She froze when he squeezed her waist and that diminished her? I have to wonder if there’s some trauma in her childhood.

    ReplyReply
  511. 511
    TenguPhule says:

    @WaterGirl: The Simpsons.

    ReplyReply
  512. 512
    Keith G says:

    It seems that Al Franken has been a creep. It sucks that he is a creep whose sense of humor I have been attracted to. It sucks that he is a creep whose political views and political office allowed him to influence policies in ways that I like.

    Al Franken’s conduct was wrong. Two years ago, this might not be such a big deal. But today it is. He fucked up and he will be paying the price.

    The good news is that Franklin’s acceptance of responsibility for his egregious behavior will not unduly harm Democrats. The earliest that a special election can be called to fill his seat will be next November. Until that time, the seat will be held by whomever the Democratic governor of Minnesota chooses. Hopefully the governor will choose a woman who is politically skilled enough to hold that seat during the special election.

    To Senator Al Franken: Thank you for your service, but unfortunately you had some crappy behavior in your past. It’s time for you to go.

    ReplyReply
  513. 513
    Weaselone says:

    Is this latest story from the 7th accuser, or is it an 8th? Because if it’s the 7th, a whole lot of people need to answer exactly how squeezing a waist during a photo is pushed them over into the “he should resign column “

    ReplyReply
  514. 514
    debit says:

    @Keith G: Blow me.

    ReplyReply
  515. 515
    Cacti says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Our party has learned absolutely nothing from 2016.

    I am increasingly less optimistic about 2018.

    If the GOP sees that they can force a sitting Dem Senator out of office based on anonymous accusations, then we’re finished as a party.

    ReplyReply
  516. 516
    tobie says:

    Grabbing by the waist is groping? Oh my. The #MeToo movement is being discredited by these kinds of statements.

    ReplyReply
  517. 517
    TenguPhule says:

    @Keith G:

    The good news is that Franklin’s acceptance of responsibility for his egregious behavior will not unduly harm Democrats. The earliest that a special election can be called to fill his seat will be next November. Until that time, the seat will be held by whomever the Democratic governor of Minnesota chooses. Hopefully the governor will choose a woman who is politically skilled enough to hold that seat during the special election.

    And if you believe that load of hooie, I have a nice bridge to sell you.

    ReplyReply
  518. 518
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Weaselone: I’m losing track too, but I think the 7th accuser was the one in the Politico story who claims Franken tried to forcibly kiss her, and the 8th is the one who published in The Atlantic today about Franken grabbing her waist, and that came out after Gillebrand, Harris, et al, called on Franken to resign.

    ReplyReply
  519. 519
    debit says:

    @WaterGirl: Yep, Simpsons. The episode also had the immortal exchange of:

    Principal Skinner: We’re not coming down until you acknowledge and celebrate our love!
    Maude Flanders: Excuse me, Edna. I don’t think we’re talking about love here. We are talking about S-E-X in front of the C-H-I-L-D-R-E-N!
    Krusty the Clown: Sex Cauldron? I thought they closed that place down!

    ReplyReply
  520. 520
    KithKanan says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    People who are okay with being touched by strangers in that kind of situation tend to underestimate how much the people who don’t like being touched really really hate it and are deeply uncomfortable with it.

    Speaking as a guy, I try not to initiate photo-waist-hugs (even though I’m a very touchy-feely person, I’m socially awkward and incredibly cautious/anxious about touching anyone I’m not completely clear is okay with it). Women I’m taking group photos with do this to me quite a lot, often women who are otherwise very much not okay with being touched for any other reason. This has confused me for a while, but I’ve never made a federal case out of it.

    ReplyReply
  521. 521
    Kathleen says:

    He is being set up.

    ReplyReply
  522. 522
    Cacti says:

    @TenguPhule:

    And if you believe that load of hooie, I have a nice bridge to sell you.

    The GOP wants to kill the Democratic Party.

    The virtue signalers and purity ponies want to hand them the sword.

    ReplyReply
  523. 523
    Peale says:

    @Tom: Ah, you see, its too late. Al Franken stubbornly held on for what, three weeks! Since he did not immediately resign and people tried to defend him, both sides. We should immediately stop defending anyone on our side or we’re “just like them.”

    ReplyReply
  524. 524
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I suspect that Gillibrand et al are calling for his resignation because of the Atlantic story. Not because of the accusation in it, but because it draws a bunch of dots.

    Note that I’m not saying it connects the dots since she equates having her waist squeezed with other women being raped, but she sure lay down a bunch of dots that conservatives are going to run with.

    ReplyReply
  525. 525
    Fair Economist says:

    @Peale:

    Ah, you see, its too late. Al Franken stubbornly held on for what, three weeks! Since he did not immediately resign and people tried to defend him, both sides. We should immediately stop defending anyone on our side or we’re “just like them.”

    Franken is being accused of grabbing somebody by the *waist* during a photo op.

    If that requires a resignation (for Dems only, obviously IOKIYAR) we’ll be lucky to have 20 Senators left by the end of 2018.

    ReplyReply
  526. 526
    debit says:

    @Kathleen: I now believe this as well.

    ReplyReply
  527. 527
    Cacti says:

    I was right about Snowden and Greenwald when being right about them wasn’t a popular opinion on this blog.

    I get the same feeling about these accusations against Franken. Something about this whole thing stinks.

    ReplyReply
  528. 528
    Peale says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yep. For what its worth, Bill did not sexually harass that woman. There were very long lurid sessions based on witness testimony that went on 100s of pages, but none of it amounted to sexual harassment in the workplace. Antony Weiner sending unsolicited pictures of his cock – yeah, that’s sexual harassment. But Bill’s conduct with monica didn’t meet what would have counted as sexual harassment at the time and wouldn’t today when the bar is much, much, lower.

    ReplyReply
  529. 529
    Peale says:

    @Fair Economist: But if you say that, then you are practically a child rapist yourself. Even saying “stop for a moment and think about the consequences” – might as well set up shop to ensnare girls into the life – you’re that kind of criminal cynic.

    ReplyReply
  530. 530
    Raoul says:

    I’m sure this Tbogg unit is a shitshow.

    But after reading (and commenting) up to about #350, I went away (and did some offline work I needed to do!). Popping back because Schumer has put his nail in the coffin. Huh.

    eta: And if Schumer piled on because the Atlantic published a story of a photo moment with a waist grab, jeebus. I just don’t know what the f-k is going on.

    ReplyReply
  531. 531
    debit says:

    And you know what? If it turns out that Franken was slimed like Shirley Sherrod, everyone who called for his resignation here will be the first ones to be all outraged.

    ReplyReply
  532. 532
    Raoul says:

    @KithKanan: I go to a weekly AA meeting. It’s 99% gay men. We circle for the serenity prayer. 15 years ago, there was some waist-level touches in the huddle. Now, we are all very careful to be (height differences accommodated as best as possible) shoulder-blade level.

    But, really, at the freakin Obama first inaugural, perfect care had to be maintained 100% not to even touch a waist?

    I am just — really — at a loss for what is acceptable. No contact at all, ever? I’m (hyperbole alert) moving to a Latin country that at least acknowledges that we have bodies. And I’m a freakn’ 50% Swede with WASP tendencies!

    ReplyReply
  533. 533
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mnemosyne: FWIW, CNN (not Cillizza, an actual reporter) says it was the Politico story that broke the dam.

    ReplyReply
  534. 534
    AliceBlue says:

    I will never be convinced that this wasn’t a hit job. I’m hoping that since McConnell chimed in with his jaw-dropping hypocrisy, Franken will say fuck all of you, I’m staying.

    ReplyReply
  535. 535
    Raoul says:

    Breaking news (and I hate how that is overused)

    Not accurate, @mpr @Stowydad. No final decision has been made and the Senator is still talking with his family. Please update your story.— Sen. Al Franken (@SenFranken) December 6, 2017

    ReplyReply
  536. 536
    SFAW says:

    Well, it certainly is heartwarming to see that it takes a “if we let a Dem ‘get away’ with (possibly) more than a few instances of shitty behavior, then we’re no better than the Rethuglicans” circular firing squad to get this joint to a TBogg-unit-plus stage.

    Only thing(s) that could cap this off is/are: “but his e-mails” and “Goldman Sachs!!” and “he’s just as bad as Trump Moore!!!”

    Plus a guest comment from Susan Sarandon.

    ReplyReply
  537. 537
    SFAW says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    says it was the Politico story that broke the dam.

    And THEY are actual reporters? Did VanDerWhoops and Whatsisname leave? It’s not as if Politico has a ton more credibility than the FTFNYT.

    ReplyReply
  538. 538
    SFAW says:

    @debit:

    And you know what? If it turns out that Franken was slimed like Shirley Sherrod,

    Unpossible! And besides, Shirley Sherrod called for the public execution of all white people in America, so she deserved it?

    ReplyReply
  539. 539
    Betty Cracker says:

    @SFAW: Actually, VanDerWhoops and Whatsisname DID leave, and Politico has been a better organization ever since! I read the story. Seemed pretty well sourced. Could it be bullshit? Sure.

    ReplyReply
  540. 540
    Ridnik Chrome says:

    Contrasting headlines at Vox Media:

    “Democrats Are Finally Holding Themselves To A Higher Standard On Harassment”

    “How the Alt-Right Duped MSNBC Into Firing One Of Its Contributors”

    ReplyReply
  541. 541
    Cacti says:

    Meanwhile, as the Dems are busy ridding themselves of one of their most effective Senators…

    Clarence Thomas’s wife was presenting an award to James O’Keefe at a Trump Hotel.

    And probably sharing gales of laughter at what a bunch of gullible dupes the Democrats are.

    ReplyReply
  542. 542
    WaterGirl says:

    @Raoul: I just called Franken’s DC office. My message said that I’m 100% sure that this is all a hit job, but that even if i’m wrong about that, the right thing to do is stay in the Senate and go through the Ethics investigation and set the stage for others to be investigated when someone comes forward.

    (202) 224-5641

    ReplyReply
  543. 543
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I am still very uncomfortable forcing Franken to resign over anonymous accusations, especially since the ones that do have names attached seem to be somewhat less than advertised.

    ReplyReply
  544. 544
    Mnemosyne says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I think it’s going to heavily depend on what his family decides. If they don’t want to have to ride the wave of bullshit, then I think he’ll resign.

    ReplyReply
  545. 545
    Raoul says:

    somewhat less than advertised

    Yuuuuup.

    ReplyReply
  546. 546
    Sophie Montane says:

    Do any other women here find that Atlantic article kind of baffling? She says he squeezed her “waist.” I have never heard of that being considered groping. I’m a woman, I’ve been groped, and I would never in a million years considering somebody squeezing my waist to be groping. And I’m somebody who doesn’t like that waist-squeezy thing — it always happens to me at family reunion picture time and it’s annoying af. But it’s not groping.

    I seriously kept re-reading the article, trying to figure out if something happened between the “waist” reference and the “flesh” reference. It’s just weird.

    ReplyReply
  547. 547
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yeah, but if he does resign, it doesn’t matter whether he did it or not, his reputation will be forever trashed, and your reputation is something you have to live with forever. I hope he takes the long view.

    This will NOT go away if he resigns. The other side will say Al was guilty because he resigned, and Moore and others are not because they didn’t. Fuckers.

    ReplyReply
  548. 548
    WaterGirl says:

    @Sophie Montane: It’s just weird. I think it’s bullshit that the Atlantic even published that article. Even worse that they allowed the headline to read that “he groped me, too” when there’s no circumstance where waist squeezing is considered groping.

    ReplyReply
  549. 549
    TenguPhule says:

    @WaterGirl: They just want clicks at this point, good journalism be damned.

    ReplyReply
  550. 550
    Feebog says:

    Late to the party, but I want to make two points. I have done sexual harassment investigations for many years for a federal agency. First rule, you don’t give credibility to anonymous allegations. Allegations are made on the record, period. Second observation, I see a lot of comments here saying since Dayton will appoint a Democrat, Franken should resign. Would your opinion be the same if Dayton was a Republican?

    ReplyReply
  551. 551
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mnemosyne: I can see both sides and am torn on this issue myself, tbh, but this thread (and Twitter) has been an education, and not in a good way!

    @Sophie Montane: I can envision scenarios in which someone could be creepy AF without actually touching your boobs or butt. But yeah, she should have kept it to herself. Too easy to misconstrue such a thing, so it’s not fair to Al Franken. Too trivial sounding, so it doesn’t bolster the alleged victims’ cases either.

    ReplyReply
  552. 552
    Scarcelight says:

    Boy, it’s been amazing to watch Democrats turn immediately to sounding like Roy Moore defenders.

    The Democratic Party: “We stand for women…unless it’s one of our own.”

    ReplyReply
  553. 553
    WaterGirl says:

    @Feebog:

    First rule, you don’t give credibility to anonymous allegations. Allegations are made on the record, period.

    This.

    ReplyReply
  554. 554
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Scarcelight:

    Roy Moore has named accusers who were willing to go on the record with detailed accounts of him pursuing them while they were still high school students. Several of them have documentation in Moore’s own handwriting.

    Franken has a woman who did multiple performances of a skit with him and two women who says he touched their waist while taking a photo. Oh, and some anonymous accusers who are unwilling to make their accusations public.

    Yep, same thing!

    ReplyReply
  555. 555
    Sophie Montane says:

    At this point, the only absolutely incontrovertible fact is that the Democratic conference has decided Franken must go. What we don’t know is why.

    ReplyReply
  556. 556
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s the anonymous thing that’s bugging me, especially since the non-anonymous accusations have not added up to much. If we’re setting a precedent that Democrats have to resign based on anonymous accusations that have never been independently examined, then we’ve just left ourselves wide open for a whole world of ratfucking.

    ReplyReply
  557. 557
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Sophie Montane:

    It’s entirely possible that they’ve decided that he’s too damaged even if he turns out to be innocent. That’s a political calculation. I think it’s going to bite them in the ass in the midterms, though.

    ReplyReply
  558. 558
    TenguPhule says:

    @Scarcelight: We demand fucking proof, no guilt by accusation, you fucking GOP wanker.

    ReplyReply
  559. 559
    Sophie Montane says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yeah, of course it’s a political calculation. But what are the elements of the equation? None of us really know. We don’t know if they have private info about the accusations. We don’t know if they’re making a judgment call based on how this is playing. We don’t know if they’re making a boneheaded mistake. We don’t know jack.

    ReplyReply
  560. 560
    Jeffery Bahr says:

    @MJS: I believe he has said that, any number of times. He fully admits that the “groping” (as even NPR calls it) was a stunt — involving a clearly set-up, not candid, photo — where he put his hands 4 to 6 inches away from a co-entertainer’s flak vest-covered breast plate. Why not wait for the Senate Ethics committee? You can bet the Republicans can and will, and meanwhile, yet again, we lose a powerful voice for progressive policy.

    ReplyReply
  561. 561
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Scarcelight: Quite fucking equating statuary rape with harassment you ignorant jackass. There is no such thing as consent with the underage.

    ReplyReply
  562. 562
    Feebog says:

    One other note, when we lose the vote on the reconferenced tax bill by one vote because Franken resigned, will all those sitting on their moral high ground acknowledge they have been played?

    ReplyReply
  563. 563
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Feebog: that only happens if Franken’s replacement is seated in time and votes yes in place of some non-Corker R who switches to no, neither of which I think is very likely

    actually, two R’s would have to join Corker, then Franken’s replacement, etc

    ReplyReply
  564. 564
    WaterGirl says:

    @Feebog: I’m gonna have to go with a no on that. So much short-sighted thinking!

    ReplyReply
  565. 565
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Sophie Montane:

    And I would like to know those things rather than have the decision made in the proverbial smoke-filled room behind closed doors. I want a LOT more light on this so I don’t feel like Franken is being railroaded based on flimsy accusations. YMMV.

    ReplyReply
  566. 566
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    So according to TPM the straw the broke the camels back is the waist hug. And the kiss and the fake breast groop in sex body armor are two different incidents on a USO tour and the democratic senate woman have been calling on Franken to resign since the first accusation.

    So sounds it was hit. Just from who? The Ratfuckers of the Right, or the Feminists on the Left. Place your bets.

    ReplyReply
  567. 567
    WaterGirl says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: If I were Al Franken, the waist hug story would be what convinced me to stay and fight.

    ReplyReply
  568. 568
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: “Statuary rape?” This just keeps getting weirder!

    ReplyReply
  569. 569
    TenguPhule says:

    @Feebog:

    One other note, when we lose the vote on the reconferenced tax bill by one vote because Franken resigned, will all those sitting on their moral high ground acknowledge they have been played?

    No, SATSQ.

    They’ll blame us for not believing in the power of purity and not clapping for Tinkerbell hard enough.

    ReplyReply
  570. 570
    WaterGirl says:

    @Betty Cracker: Once they locked him out of the malls, he had to go for the statues outside in the parking lot.

    ReplyReply
  571. 571
    Scarcelight says:

    @TenguPhule: LOL! I’m sure Roy Moore’s defenders are saying the very same thing!

    It’s sort of depressing how similar the two tribes are.

    ReplyReply
  572. 572
    Davebo says:

    I’m torn on the Franken case and honestly I’m a little disturbed how so many here are not.

    Squeezing someone’s side during a photo op is negligible. Grabbing ass in public isn’t. Hell my girlfriend would be miffed at me if I did that.

    ReplyReply
  573. 573
    Spider-Dan says:

    Franken must resign because:

    1) he pretended to grope a woman’s breasts for the camera… during a comedy tour in which she was on tape actually groping someone else’s butt
    2) he groped a woman’s shoulder blade
    3) he groped a woman’s waist

    This is ratfcking, folks. And those of us who are saying “It’s fine to throw Franken under the bus because MN has a Dem governor” are going to be in for the most predictable surprise of all time when immediate Dem resignation becomes the accepted standard and suddenly, accusations of groping a woman’s forearm surface against a Dem in a state with a GOP governor.

    ReplyReply
  574. 574
    TenguPhule says:

    @Scarcelight: We have third party verification and his signature on various writings. Try again, comrade.

    ReplyReply
  575. 575
    TenguPhule says:

    @Davebo:

    Grabbing ass in public isn’t.

    And there’s no proof he’s done so.

    Which seems to be getting lost in the whirlwind of bullshit accusations against Franken.

    its like watching Fox news in action.

    ReplyReply
  576. 576
    Davebo says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Sorry, hadn’t realized Franken had denied the claim. Seems the Google missed it.

    ReplyReply
  577. 577
    SWMBO says:

    @rikyrah: @rikyrah: I love you but in an internet, bloggy sort of way. Keep bringing it.

    ReplyReply
  578. 578
    SWMBO says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: We don’t want to be the Ratfucked Party either.

    ReplyReply
  579. 579
    SWMBO says:

    @kindness: He should do what is best for his constituents. The late, great Sen. Ted Kennedy did not have the most spotless, squeaky clean record regarding women. Yet the people of Massachusetts reelected him again and again. And he served them well. Calling for Franken’s resignation before the Senate Ethics Committee has investigated does not serve his constituents well. He needs to stay and let the process take its turn.

    ReplyReply
  580. 580
    SWMBO says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: We are not going to impeach President Pussygrabber. We don’t have the votes. And until we do, I think we need to let the process run its course.

    ReplyReply
  581. 581
    SWMBO says:

    @VincentN: This weaponization of accusations will continue. PUT THEM UNDER OATH. Have the Ethics Committee hold hearings. Set a precedent if Moore gets elected. (Because he sure as hell won’t call for an Ethics hearing if he gets elected.)

    Also this weaponizing of accusations to get both sides to discredit the accusers is making it harder for women to come forward. The reason some men have gotten away with it for so long is because women weren’t believed. If the standard becomes all women are believed vs. no women are believed, then we lose. I don’t know if these women are credible or not. Instead of trying them in the court of public opinion, let them testify under oath. When we can develop a standard of believing women because it holds up under scrutiny then these unproven accusations in the future will have some history. And if it is a subtle attack to get women to not come forward, it will work if we don’t believe and scrutinize it.

    ReplyReply
  582. 582
    SWMBO says:

    @different-church-lady: We don’t have to join the crazy.

    ReplyReply
  583. 583
    SWMBO says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: But we will never know without an investigation. The Democrats have called for an investigation. The Republicans who can start a Congressional investigation at the drop of an FBI leak haven’t started an investigation into Franken. Why? Because mob rule is easier for them than due process?

    ReplyReply
  584. 584
    Keith G says:

    @debit:

    Blow me.

    I like sucking dicks. I’ve been enthusiastic giver of blow jobs since my teens, so not much of an insulting retort from you. I do find it interesting that you are defending someone who has issues with proper sexual boundaries by directing that I should perform a sex act on you.

    Birds of a feather?

    Besides, I’ve never been one to give blow job to strangers, anonymous people online, or folks who seem to have anger management issues.

    Cheers.

    ReplyReply
  585. 585
    debit says:

    @Keith G: You know, I would probably care about your opinion, except for the fact that you’re wrong, wrong in every way.

    ReplyReply
  586. 586
    John Thomson says:

    @BobbyK: Absolutely!

    ReplyReply

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