They’re Totally Going to Pass This Tax Cut For Their Millionaire and Billionaire Buddies

First things first- it’s just not normal that I have both Senators Joe Manchin and Shelly Moore Capito’s phone numbers, as well as Rep. David McKinley’s, programmed into my iphone address book because every week or so I have to call them to beg them to stop trying to destroy the country. THIS. IS. NOT. NORMAL.

What makes it even stranger is I have to call and beg them to not do extremely UNPOPULAR things:

Senate Republicans’ effort to pass tax reform is at a crucial juncture. As some senators waffle on whether to support the bill, they may want to spare a glance toward public opinion: Poll after poll shows that more voters than not are opposed to their efforts. In fact, the GOP bill is one of the least popular tax plans since Ronald Reagan’s day.

About a third of voters currently support the Republican tax reform package, according to an average of five surveys released1 this month. In a Quinnipiac University survey, just 25 percent of voters approved of the plan. Surveys from ABC News/Washington Post, CNN, Morning Consult and YouGov put approval of the plan slightly higher, but all are still at 36 percent or lower. Meanwhile, an average of the five polls puts opposition at 46 percent.

Why is support so low? Americans are opposed to the bill because they think it disproportionately benefits the rich. (It likely will.) President Trump’s administration has argued, however, that there were similar complaints about the Reagan tax cut plan of 1981, which preceded an economic boom.

This tax cut is less popular than past tax INCREASES. A while back I made a joke about what compromise was like with crazy people:

I really don’t understand how bipartisanship is ever going to work when one of the parties is insane. Imagine trying to negotiate an agreement on dinner plans with your date, and you suggest Italian and she states her preference would be a meal of tire rims and anthrax. If you can figure out a way to split the difference there and find a meal you will both enjoy, you can probably figure out how bipartisanship is going to work the next few years.

We’re now to the point where the American people are screaming for Italian, and the Republicans are looking back at us and telling us that spaghetti is out of the god damned question, and not only are we getting tire rims and anthrax but we need to wash it down with liquid drano.

This is insanity. They literally want to push the country off a cliff to provide aid and comfort to people who don’t need it and have openly stated they aren’t even going to spend the money the way the Republicans say they will.

259 replies
  1. 1
    TenguPhule says:

    We’re now to the point where the American people are screaming for Italian, and the Republicans are looking back at us and telling us that spaghetti is out of the god damned question, and not only are we getting tire rims and anthrax but we need to wash it down with liquid drano.

    Worse, we’d settle for just not eating anything at this point and they’re still gonna shove this down our throats.

  2. 2
    Aleta says:

    It’s not so much insanity– it’s big money paid off yearly for minimal effort, no risk.

  3. 3
    Hunter Gathers says:

    Anything to keep the sires of rich white people from ever having to work for a living. The most shameful thing that can happen to a person with money is to have a child who gets a real job.

  4. 4
    jonas says:

    President Trump’s administration has argued, however, that there were similar complaints about the Reagan tax cut plan of 1981, which preceded an economic boom.

    How much longer will this zombie myth persist? The economic recovery in 81-82 had fuck-all to do with the tax cut and everything to do with the Fed ratcheting back its tight money policy. Republicans have been riding people’s fiscal illiteracy and short memory span on this for decades.

  5. 5
    TenguPhule says:

    @jonas: And they had to raise taxes in 1984 because those tax cuts did so much damage to federal revenues.

  6. 6
    scuffletuffle says:

    This is happening because we citizens are not their “constituents,” their donors are…

  7. 7
    MomSense says:

    I’m so fucking mad. These assholes are hell bent on destroying our country.

    And all of this is possible because of a fraudulent election that was manipulated by a hostile foreign power.

    Republicans are GD traitors.

  8. 8
    TenguPhule says:

    @Hunter Gathers:

    Anything to keep the sires of rich white people from ever having to work for a living.

    Spawn. Sires are the parents.

  9. 9
    LurkerNoLonger says:

    If the Republicans are bound and determined to shoot themselves in their collective d*ck, the only thing we can do is tell them that it’s bad idea. If they choose ignore us then they should prepare to reap the whirlwind.

  10. 10
    Aleta says:

    God, I still hear old Cheney: “We’ve earned this.”

    Increase the DOD budget, increase the deficit and decrease tax paid by the wealthy.

  11. 11
    Kathleen says:

    We had a fucking coup in this country. To paraphrase the young woman in Casablanca who begs Rick to understand why she will succumb to Captain Renau so he will give her and her newlywed husband letters of transit, “the devil has the people by the throat”. One of the greatest movie lines ever written. And, Ladies and Gentlemen, today’s Rethuglican party aided and abetted by child molesters and rapists.

  12. 12
    TenguPhule says:

    @LurkerNoLonger:

    If they choose ignore us then they should prepare to reap the whirlwind.

    Its not a crime if its committed on a Republican.

    We’re getting there faster then expected.

  13. 13
    Steve in the ATL says:

    Unions are sending letters to CEOs stating that trump is promising that tax “reform” will save companies $4,000 per employee and that the union expects that to flow through to labor. One of them made the same demand to me today in bargaining.

    I’m not anti-union (or I wouldn’t be a yellow dog Democrat and a labor lawyer) but this is the type of bullshit posturing that hurts their cause. Unions really need to figure out what their value add (yes, I went there with the corporate speak) is before they become completely irrelevant. It’s frustrating to see workers treated so badly and unions not helping them.

  14. 14
    Betty Cracker says:

    @scuffletuffle & @MomSense & @Kathleen: What y’all said.

  15. 15
  16. 16
    Roger Moore says:

    @scuffletuffle:

    This is happening because we citizens are not their “constituents,” their donors are…

    That’s not quite right. We’re still their constituents, but they’ve gotten used to not thinking of us that way because so many of us are wingnuts who will vote for whomever promises to be worst to Those People. Doing this kind of unpopular crap is the kind of thing that might actually wake up enough of the wingnuts and get them to vote for somebody else to give elected Republicans the message that they have to pay attention to voters as well as donors.

  17. 17
    TenguPhule says:

    Federal judge reportedly set to release Cliven Bundy and two sons

    To cap off another bad day, this happened.

    A federal judge in Las Vegas is expected to order the release of Cliven Bundy and his sons Ammon and Ryan from federal prison.

    Various media outlets are reporting Wednesday afternoon that attorneys said the three will be released soon, but it is not clear whether that means they will be placed under house arrest.

    Attorney Daniel Hill, representing Ammon Bundy, said “an issue arose” in relation to the defense’s motion to dismiss.

  18. 18
    Another Scott says:

    As many have pointed out, they’re doing exactly what they’ve wanted to do for decades, namely, as Grover said, I don’t want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.

    The whole point of this is to give the rich more money, so that the federal deficits go up, so that the PAYGO cuts have to happen, so that government is forced to be smaller and less effective, and so that normal people get fewer of the benefits that they – and all of us – have paid for.

    That is all.

    That’s why they don’t care about CHIP, and don’t care about the $25B (the statutory maximum) annual Medicare cuts, and all the rest of the cuts. They want these cuts – and more – to happen.

    We can’t assume that they don’t know what they’re doing. That they’re stupid about how unpopular this stuff is the voters.

    They know, and They Don’t Care.

    They aren’t going to change. It’s Party Uber Alles. Their soulmates on the Courts aren’t going to save us, either.

    We have to vote them out of office – that’s the only way to reverse this madness.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  19. 19
    TenguPhule says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Unions are sending letters to CEOs stating that trump is promising that tax “reform” will save companies $4,000 per employee and that the union expects that to flow through to labor. One of them made the same demand to me today in bargaining.

    Meanwhile the CEOs are stating the obvious, its going to the shareholders.

  20. 20
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Roger Moore: your posts are still insightful and cogent, but I am having trouble believing you since you didn’t look as old as I expected it in that meet up pic.

  21. 21

    @Steve in the ATL: Even thought you’re a management shill(I’m snarking a bit), you’re right. This goes back to the late 60’s when the unions saw a huge influx of workers(Boomers and POC’s) coming into the workforce and decided their best reaction was yell STOP, rather than adjusting to the new reality. They lost any credibility with the public at large and ended up becoming increasing irrelevant.

  22. 22
    Brachiator says:

    This is insanity. They literally want to push the country off a cliff to provide aid and comfort to people who don’t need it and have openly stated they aren’t even going to spend the money the way the Republicans say they will.

    A Russian oligarch recently spent $450 million at auction for a painting. An American plutocrat was jealous and looks forward to throwing his tax cut windfall on something equally frivolous. Trickle down, baby.

    And as I noted earlier, soon the worldwide workforce may see a major contraction because of robots.

    As many as 800 million workers worldwide may lose their jobs to robots and automation by 2030, equivalent to more than a fifth of today’s global labor force.

    That’s according to a new report covering 46 nations and more than 800 occupations by the research arm of McKinsey & Co.

    The consulting company said Wednesday that both developed and emerging countries will be impacted. Machine operators, fast-food workers and back-office employees are among those who will be most affected if automation spreads quickly through the workplace.

    Oh yeah, the tax bill includes expanded write-offs for buying equipment and other tangible property.

  23. 23
  24. 24

    @Roger Moore: If you’re not paying for it, you’re not the customer, you’re the product.

  25. 25
  26. 26
    LurkerNoLonger says:

    @TenguPhule: I meant in an electoral sense, although the other option is tempting.

  27. 27
    sixthdoctor says:

    Big: MURKOWSKI is a yes on the Senate Republican tax bill."After thoroughly reviewing the good work of the Finance Committee, I intend to support the reconciliation legislation that is now before the Senate."— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) November 29, 2017

  28. 28
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    This bill is a gift. It heightens the contradictions and lays the foundation for a glorious revolution.

  29. 29
    Aleta says:

    jelani cobb
    @jelani9
    To recap, NBC shut down Ronan Farrow’s Weinstein story, forcing him to pursue it on his own — a story that ultimately helped create a climate where NBC had to sever ties with their franchise player. Definition of a bad look.

    Adam Jacobson‏
    @adamdjacobson
    NBC also: Paid Trump for Apprentice after birther stuff, had Lauer softball interview Trump, had Trump host SNL, had Fallon ruffle his hair, reportedly has tapes of Trump saying racist stuff. NBC is trash.

  30. 30
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    here we go….

    Glenn Kessler‏Verified account @ GlennKesslerWP
    Hmmm, Marco Rubio says that the tax plan is just the first step before “instituting structural changes to Social Security and Medicare” benefits to reduce the federal deficit.

    Thank god we’re safe from Hillary Clinton and the speeches she gave at Goldman Sachs

  31. 31
    Kryptik says:

    So it looks like the GOP is going to get all their unicorns all at once now? Tax cuts, baked in spending cuts, destroying Obamacare, Medicare, AND Social Security all at once, and destroying the entire livelihood of the underclass?

    Whee. Greatest Depression, here we come!

    Fuck everything.

  32. 32
    FlipYrWhig says:

    We are governed by truly vile people.

  33. 33
    Schlemazel says:

    @jonas:
    It also didn’t help that OPEC faltered & gas went from $1 a gallon to 50 cents

  34. 34
    Brachiator says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    here we go….

    Glenn Kessler‏Verified account @ GlennKesslerWP
    Hmmm, Marco Rubio says that the tax plan is just the first step before “instituting structural changes to Social Security and Medicare” benefits to reduce the federal deficit.

    Thank god we’re safe from Hillary Clinton and the speeches she gave at Goldman Sachs

    Quick. Someone interview Susan Sarandon so she can tell us again why Hillary would have been worse.

  35. 35
    The Dangerman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    ….“instituting structural changes to Social Security and Medicare” benefits to reduce the federal deficit.

    I’m all for some structural changes upcoming; first to go is the tactic of reconciliation. If you can’t get to 60, ESAD. Hell, Obamacare had to get 60.

  36. 36
    Schlemazel says:

    @LurkerNoLonger:
    Yeah, that is all we can do because there will be no collateral damage or anything

  37. 37
    LurkerNoLonger says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m sure that will go over well with the reliable elderly voting block. These fucking people.

  38. 38
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: What choice do we have – WE”RE BROKE! You don’t want us to turn into Greece! We need shared sacrifice!

  39. 39
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Brachiator:

    “If you think it is pragmatic to shore up the status quo right now, then you are not in touch with the status quo. The status quo is not working.”

    ~ Susan Sarandon Axis Sally

  40. 40
    TenguPhule says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Rubio needs to slip and drown in his damn bathtub. With a dildo and two wet suits for company.

  41. 41
    MjOregon says:

    My husband and I have NO other income other than Social Security so we don’t have to pay any income taxes. Does anyone know if this bag of pus of a “reform” bill removes that distinction so we’ll have to pay taxes on it going forward? I remember when one of the “reform” bills in the 80’s removed unemployment pay from non-taxable income so it wouldn’t surprise me if Social Security is going to be taxed now.

  42. 42
    Han says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Can you expand on this a bit? Because I’m not understanding what you think they should be doing. At first glance, it seems to be a mirror of the tack management takes wrt labor. That is, management uses economic downturns to wring concessions, so now labor is using an economic windfall to do the same. What is the bullshit posturing, and how does it hurt their cause? Honest question, trying to figure out what I’m missing.

  43. 43
    randy khan says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    I’m not anti-union (or I wouldn’t be a yellow dog Democrat and a labor lawyer) but this is the type of bullshit posturing that hurts their cause. Unions really need to figure out what their value add (yes, I went there with the corporate speak) is before they become completely irrelevant. It’s frustrating to see workers treated so badly and unions not helping them.

    I don’t see why they shouldn’t ask for a share of increased profits. Wage stagnation is a problem largely because that hasn’t been happening for the last couple of decades. I mean, really, capital is just one input into whatever the company produces, and no more important than labor, so there’s no reason capital should get it all.

  44. 44
    Roger Moore says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    This bill is a gift. It heightens the contradictions and lays the foundation for a glorious revolution.

    And if you buy that, I have some mint Jill Stein merchandise to sell you.

  45. 45
    ruemara says:

    @Brachiator: Brilliant idea. Slash social safety nets, cut jobs, leave 800 million people unemployed. Can’t see any reason to be concerned about that. I guess we’ll be programmers.

  46. 46
    TS says:

    @jonas:

    President Trump’s administration has argued, however, that there were similar complaints about the Reagan tax cut plan of 1981, which preceded an economic boom.

    Regardless of what caused the Reagan “boom” – the US economy is now at the top of a massive boom – and this is NEVER the time for a sane government to reduce taxes – quite the opposite. trump is using financial advisers who will tell him to declare the country bankrupt when things go pear shaped.

  47. 47
    Roger Moore says:

    @Kryptik:

    Whee. Greatest Depression, here we come!

    But it’s going to be a Yuge, Classy Depression. You’ve never had a Depression so good!

  48. 48
    MomSense says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    This is what they do. LePage cut taxes for about 89 of the wealthiest taxpayers in Maine thus creating a deficit crisis that could only be solved by slashing funding for education, care for the disabled, etc. so of course property taxes have gone up dramatically and we have had to let go of teacher and social workers.

    Maine’s economy has lagged waaaay behind the rest of the New England states.

    Maine has some experience with the Republican economic agenda and it sucks.

  49. 49
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I know trump campaigned on not touching the safety net, but I don’t remember this– good recall

    Josh Barro Retweeted Glenn Kessler
    A number of conservative pundits are saying this is no bait and switch — this has always been the GOP position. But the actually existing Republican president told us he’ll “make us so rich” it won’t be necessary to cut entitlements.

  50. 50
    MomSense says:

    @Kryptik:

    Yuuugest depression!

  51. 51
    JPhillips says:

    And I bet this lays the groundwork for repealing the ACA. With the mandate already gone the CBO score on a repeal bill will look much better in comparison to the previous bills. All the moderates will say, “Mission Accomplished!” and presto, ACA repeal.

  52. 52
    SFAW says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Spawn. Sires are the parents.

    Probably meant “scions,” actually.

    To-MAY-to, to-MAH-to.

  53. 53
    Timurid says:

    @Kryptik:

    This bill will accomplish every significant GOP objective… tax cuts for the wealthy, destruction of ACA, dispossession of the working and middle classes, major cuts to social services… through either explicit provisions or cascading failures. After passing it this Congress will have served its purpose. They can all get voted out next year and it won’t matter. The only functional and necessary part of the legislative branch will be the Donald’s veto pen.

  54. 54
    debbie says:

    @TS:

    Boom, my ass. How many savings & loans failed as a result of that boom?

  55. 55
    Roger Moore says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Rubio needs to slip and drown in his damn bathtub.

    No, no. It’s Grover Norquist who’s supposed to drown in a bathtub. Rubio will die of hairspray poisoning.

  56. 56
    Kryptik says:

    @Roger Moore:
    @MomSense:

    The Best depression, you won’t believe how depressed you’ll be.

    (At least half of that will be true, sadly)

  57. 57
    The Moar You Know says:

    Of course they are going to pass it. This is what happens when a group of people win an election; they get what they want.

    Meanwhile, we are discussing the merits of keeping Senators Franken and Conyers in the Senate.

  58. 58
    AnonPhenom says:

    They literally want to push the country off a cliff to provide aid and comfort to people who don’t need…

    A COUNTRY (ANYMORE BECAUSE THEY KNOW WE LIVE IN A POST-NATION-STATE WORLD!)

    FTFY.
    Someone do a post on the idea of global taxation administered and enforced by a U.N. force.

  59. 59
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    In a Quinnipiac University survey, just 25 percent of voters approved of the plan.

    27% again

  60. 60
    Schlemazel says:

    @LurkerNoLonger:
    They will exempt people currently over 55 & that will actually INCREASE support from us old folks because you greedy kids want everything handed to you

  61. 61
    Roger Moore says:

    @jonas:

    there were similar complaints about the Reagan tax cut plan of 1981, which preceded an economic boom.

    Somebody needs to read about post hoc ergo propter hoc.

  62. 62
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    John Harwood‏Verified account @ JohnJHarwood
    Orrin Hatch calls Trump “one of the best presidents i’ve served under”

    among other things, I wonder what Madison would’ve thought of a Senator saying he serves “under” a president

  63. 63
    Brachiator says:

    @ruemara:

    Brilliant idea. Slash social safety nets, cut jobs, leave 800 million people unemployed. Can’t see any reason to be concerned about that. I guess we’ll be programmers.

    Or orderlies in retirement homes. From the Bloomberg story:

    The good news for those displaced is that there will be jobs for them to transition into, although in many cases they’re going to have to learn new skills to do the work. Those jobs will include health-care providers for aging populations, technology specialists and even gardeners, according to the report.

    Guess I will try to develop some gardening skills. Right now, I don’t even know how to pull weeds.

  64. 64
    rikyrah says:

    @MomSense:
    TRAITORS

    ALL of them 😠😠😠

  65. 65
    Bill Arnold says:

    President Trump’s administration has argued, however, that there were similar complaints about the Reagan tax cut plan of 1981, which preceded an economic boom.

    This line of propaganda was in FiveThirtyEight? Sigh. P. Volker’s Federal Reserve dropped the Federal Funds rate over 10 points (from a high of 20%); that’s what caused the “boom”.
    http://www.macrotrends.net/201.....ical-chart

  66. 66
    chopper says:

    there were similar complaints about the Reagan tax cut plan of 1981, which preceded an economic boom.

    and I have a rock that keeps tigers away.

  67. 67
    Another Scott says:

    @Han: As I read it, he’s saying the unions are buying Trump’s framing (and the unicorn-brought $4000) rather than trying to argue that the employees should be getting raises because of the value they bring to the company. There’s no $4000 from this tax bill – it’s nonsense – so arguing that they company should give it to the workers is a losing strategy.

    That’s my reading, anyway. Corrections welcome.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  68. 68
    MomSense says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Sounds to me like the unions are calling their bluff. Republicans and CEOs get away with promises of shared prosperity that are never fulfilled. I hope the unions make a big stink about this.

  69. 69
    Brachiator says:

    @ruemara: Wow. Got moderated. Let me try that again

    Brilliant idea. Slash social safety nets, cut jobs, leave 800 million people unemployed. Can’t see any reason to be concerned about that. I guess we’ll be programmers.

    From the Bloomberg story:

    The good news for those displaced is that there will be jobs for them to transition into, although in many cases they’re going to have to learn new skills to do the work. Those jobs will include health-care providers for aging populations, technology speci@lists and even gardeners, according to the report.

  70. 70
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    NBC News‏ @NBCNews

    President Trump says the GOP tax bill “is going to cost me a fortune, believe me… This is not good for me.”

    An NBC News analysis found that Trump and his family could save more than $1 billion under House tax plan

    So unlike Drumpf to lie.

  71. 71
  72. 72
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    she’s a pollster

    Trump’s Counselor Kellyanne Conway Is Now His Opioids Czar
    Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced pollster Kellyanne Conway, counselor to President Donald Trump, will lead White House initiatives against the opioid overdose epidemic.

    If Omarosa or Eric had been the one to walk in the door while someone was trying to get the Beast to pay attention to opioids, this would be a different headline

  73. 73
    ruemara says:

    Yes. With or without Dems. 20 years of progressives focused like hawks on only the presidency has done a great job of giving them exactly the totalitarian rule they’ve desired. Yay.

    @Brachiator: Gardening. Such a high paying position. These people are utter fools.

  74. 74
    MomSense says:

    @rikyrah:

    Yup. They are despicable.

  75. 75
    Trentrunner says:

    @The Moar You Know: Conyers is in the house, genius.

    The more you know…

    Conyers should resign. Franken should resign.

  76. 76
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: 2 GIGANTIC assumptions here — 1) media will 24/7 tell that GOP is to blame for the disasterous consequences and 2) people harmed will be able to vote.

    See 2016 manipulative propaganda deluge on social media, et al, and all the blocks to voting implememted and being implemented now in many states.

  77. 77
    Bill Arnold says:

    Tazj at 71 (reply button broken due to missing end-link tag).
    Rubio is more scummy than I thought; has this been his line all along?

  78. 78
    Hobbes83 says:

    Another party line vote. I’m still waiting on the media to say that Trumpt needs to lead and reach across the aisle… should be any minute by now.

  79. 79
    TenguPhule says:

    @Trentrunner: Would you prefer to be roasted or broiled when we eat you during the coming apocalypse?

  80. 80
    J R in WV says:

    @MjOregon:

    If you were receiving more Social Security income, you would be paying taxes. My wife and I both get a pension and Social security. We also have a small amount of income from our 401-type investments. And we pay taxes every year.

    Perhaps you should get the forms and make sure you don’t need to pay taxes? Better to find out sooner than later that you’ve been underpaying… Social Security is as taxable as the federal payroll checks I received while in the US Navy back in 1970-73.

    Especially with this new tax hike bill coming down!!

  81. 81
    TenguPhule says:

    @ruemara:

    Gardening. Such a high paying position. These people are utter fools.

    But think about all the opportunities for hiding the bodies! //

  82. 82
    MomSense says:

    @Trentrunner:

    The day after Trump resigns I’ll join your cause. Until then – fuck off.

  83. 83
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Brachiator: You said the key word: oligarch.

    This is about destroying governance & sovereignty everywhere on Earth. About making permanent a world where money moves at the speed of light & anyone without it can’t move at all. About enshrining a couple hundred extended families richer than Croesus as the absolute rulers of the planet, with the lives & deaths of the vast mass of humanity subject to their mere whims.

    I’m sure the motherfucking plutos can’t believe how lucky they got, to seize control so easily of the “last best hope of mankind” & turn it into their own private tax farm. All they had to do was weaponize the tribal hatreds we foolishly thought the nation had outgrown, when it turned out we’d merely driven them back under their rocks to seethe & stew & amass the dark money to fund their revenge.

    Once we’re tapped out they’ll turn on the EU (if they haven’t succeeded & smashing it to pieces beforehand) & then everybody else. And then, welcome to the New Feudalism – a golf-spiked boot stomping on a human face, forever.

    sure that no combination of peasants will ever be able to

  84. 84
    Felonius Monk says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Orrin Hatch calls Trump “one of the best presidents i’ve served under”

    It’s called ego feeding. These fuckers want to be sure that Trump will actually sign the bill. Trump is unpredictable.

  85. 85
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @MjOregon: Taxes on SS. What a major disaster for so many!

  86. 86
    Kathleen says:

    @Brachiator: I will transition into career as stick gatherer for us old Box People who will need implements for roasting squirrel.

  87. 87
    J. says:

    Trump and the GOP are doing exactly what the Russians wanted, sowing discord and wreaking havoc with/destroying democracy.

  88. 88
    Ruckus says:

    @TS:
    Well they are republican financial advisors. Which means that they have been to a grocery store at least once in the last 40 years (most likely once 30-40 yrs ago) and saw someone with a wallet in their hand. That’s as close to any real financial information they know. They might even have a college degree, but it’s in a bullshit religion, one which the entire theology is how to fleece the rubes.

  89. 89
    debbie says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I hope Sherrod Brown lays into him about that at the next committee hearing.

  90. 90
    TenguPhule says:

    @Uncle Cosmo: Fortunately, The middle east has been a good teacher for how to overcome a richer opponent with all the shiny toys.

    I foresee a swell of jobs in the kidnapping rich people for ransom field. Among others.

  91. 91
    Kathleen says:

    @J R in WV: I receive SS and a small pension and I am still working full time. I also pay taxes on my Social Security.

  92. 92
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kathleen: You won’t be able to afford the stick tax.

  93. 93
    Tazj says:

    @Bill Arnold: I don’t know, I don’t know Rubio that well. I think he was the mastermind behind the destruction of the risk corridors of the ACA though. Someone replied to the Twitter feed of a journalist(who I’ve forgotten) that Rubio had said this. I thought no, he didn’t really come out and just say this did he? I had to Google it and it came up right away.
    I apologize for screwing up the link.

  94. 94
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Mmmmmm, Solyent Green is tasty.

  95. 95
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @sixthdoctor: She’s worthless. They all are. I hope no Democrat votes for this monstrosity. Let Republicans own this and all the damage it is going to do to the working class.

  96. 96
    Comrade Scrutinizer says:

    @Ladyraxterinok: The Republicans are certainly not acting as if they are worried about free and fair elections going forward.

  97. 97
    Kathleen says:

    @TenguPhule: Or the squirrel. I’m sure that will treated as income.

  98. 98
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Han: @randy khan: @Another Scott: @MomSense: unions can and should ask to share to share in a company’s prosperity, just as they must make sacrifices in down times. Making demands based a bullshit statement from a chronic liar is posturing and makes them look (to labor people) like either morons or assholes. It’s unprofessional. And CEOs receive these letters and think that unions are even worse than they already think.

    Don’t posture to CEOs based on a bullshit trump statement. Posture to trump or to the republican party or put out a press release. If you want management to listen to you, base your arguments on facts or accepted expert theories and use proper channels. CEOs don’t respond to unions nor should they. CEOs read letters like that and start asking how to get rid of the unions.

    If you want the management bargaining committee to listen you on an issue like this, address your concerns to them, not the CEO, and express your desire and expectation to share in success or windfalls and discuss how to come to an agreement on that. Don’t look an asshole to the people who ultimately control what your members will get.

    On a positive note, you have all received 2.0 hours of CLE credit for this discussion!

  99. 99
    ArchTeryx says:

    I can’t believe I’m saying this, but for once I’m not taking a pessimistic view, and it’s my ox that’s once more set to be gored.

    (Long story short: Even with a B.S., an M.S. and a Ph.D., I may be going back for another Master’s for a career change to Voc Rehab Counselor, since my half-a-lifetime-training-for science career didn’t work out so well).

    Yeah, it looks bad right now. Yeah, Republicans are busy falling in line like they nearly always do, and of course they’re launching a stealth attack on every safety net program we have to pay for their fucking greenie-damned tax cuts.

    But they haven’t passed the bill yet. Nor have they actually reconciled the two – the Senate bill is, if you can believe it, worse than the House bill in so many ways. Will the House just pass the Senate bill straight up and call it a day? They can’t bypass the conference committee – the bills are just too different. They probably won’t have time before the shutdown threat looms, and the more time we have, the less likely that bill ever sees Trump’s desk. A shutdown may be our best friend right now, as it would give us more time to rally the troops. It ain’t over even if Trump signs it. Every graduate student in this country better fucking a) vote, and b) vote Democratic in 2018, since every one of their livelihoods is on the line here.

  100. 100
    Millard Filmore says:

    @Brachiator:

    Those jobs will include health-care providers for aging populations, technology specialists and even gardeners

    Yeah, those former union guys from the closed factories are really gonna like hanging around the Home Depot parking lot waiting for those casual labor landscape jobs.

  101. 101
    Ruckus says:

    @ruemara:
    They are fools, yes.
    But they are far worse than just fools. They are evil fools. Extremely evil fools.

  102. 102
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @J.: Trump is certainly doing an excellent job of ticking off our allies. Both the UK and the Netherlands had to rebuke him for retweeting anti-Muslim videos from a racist Brit. He’s an embarrassment to this country.

  103. 103
    trnc says:

    @Bill Arnold:

    This line of propaganda was in FiveThirtyEight? Sigh. P. Volker’s Federal Reserve dropped the Federal Funds rate over 10 points (from a high of 20%); that’s what caused the “boom”.

    Number of journalists whom I have seen acknowledge that Obama more than doubled the stock market and grew jobs for 78 months straight while stuck with a bottomed out bank rate: 0

  104. 104
    randy khan says:

    @Schlemazel: @Schlemazel:

    They will exempt people currently over 55 & that will actually INCREASE support from us old folks because you greedy kids want everything handed to you

    IIRC, they tried that with the Bush II Social Security privatization proposal and it went over like a lead balloon.

  105. 105
    p.a. says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    He’s an embarrassment to this country hominids.

    Fixt.

  106. 106
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Trentrunner:
    Trentrunner should get a bag of salted dicks shoved down his throat.

  107. 107
    MomSense says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    If the companies/CEOs don’t want to be held to Trumps’s bullshit promises, then they can publicly disavow them. Otherwise they are letting a lying madman provide cover.

  108. 108
    Kathleen says:

    @trnc: Hmm. Mainslime Media Misogynists slimed Hillary and have been revealed to be serial abusers. Mainslime Media pundits give Obama credit for absolutely nothing. I wonder what we will find out about them? Hmmmm.

  109. 109
    TenguPhule says:

    @Comrade Scrutinizer:

    The Republicans are certainly not acting as if they are worried about free and fair elections going forward.

    But I was told such concerns were crazy talk.

  110. 110
    d58826 says:

    buzzfeed is reporting that Kellyanne Conway, world renowned expert in addition and drug treatment, will become Der Fuhrer’s opioid czar. As if the day hadn’t gone down hill far enough

  111. 111
    TenguPhule says:

    @ArchTeryx:

    Nor have they actually reconciled the two – the Senate bill is, if you can believe it, worse than the House bill in so many ways. Will the House just pass the Senate bill straight up and call it a day?

    That seems to be the plan. Ryan is confident enough that they plan to pass the Senate bill as is through the House and is counting on the current momentum it has to keep his waverers in line (being seen as failing the party on the eve of success and costing them all the donor cash may do the trick).

    If it works, its open season on Republican scalps.

  112. 112
    randy khan says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    So, to be clear, your issue is process, not substance. (For what it’s worth, I just saw an estimate that the tax bill would cut the actual taxes paid by three of the largest telecom/media companies by about 2/3, so that’s a lot of scratch.)

  113. 113
    TenguPhule says:

    @d58826:

    As if the day hadn’t gone down hill far enough

    Day is only half over.

  114. 114
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Uncle Cosmo:
    Yup. The Perfect Dictatorship. Democracy in name only. Oligarchic autocracy in practice. The internet may turn out to be one of humanity’s worst inventions. As it turns out it won’t be the atom bomb that will destroy us but the computer.

  115. 115
    TenguPhule says:

    @ArchTeryx:

    They can’t bypass the conference committee – the bills are just too different.

    Actually they can, Ryan just has to vote the Senate plan as is through the House.

  116. 116
    ArchTeryx says:

    @randy khan: Because they knew that the moment you partially privatized SS, no amount of lobbying would stop their beloved Republicans from going all the way, and removing that exemption in the dead of night. Nothing works like fear in our culture and politics.

  117. 117
    Aleta says:

    Tr cares so little about the people suffering and grieving because of opioids that he’s appointed KAConway to be the WH opioid crisis czar.

    (As d58826 just said.)

  118. 118
    randy khan says:

    @TenguPhule:

    The Republicans feel like they have to pass a tax bill because they’ll lose their donors if they don’t, not because they think it will help them with regular voters. They know they’re in a hole already, and are worried that not passing a bill will make it even worse. (More or less, they’re afraid that the arms dealers will stop selling to them, and they’re scared of going to war without ammunition.) So far as I can tell, that’s the entire psychology behind the bill.

  119. 119
    TenguPhule says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: Yeah no.

    Think Iraq after the invasion. Same bunch of bozos are gonna be running things here.

    They and their families are going to become very obvious targets as everyone goes where the money is.

  120. 120
    The Moar You Know says:

    IRC, they tried that with the Bush II Social Security privatization proposal and it went over like a lead balloon.

    @randy khan: Here we are a decade later. The GOP and their voter base has gotten kinder and saner, right?

    Don’t answer that. They’ll pass it this time.

  121. 121
    ArchTeryx says:

    @TenguPhule: Which is certainly an option. Is why I say every day’s delay works in our favor, just as it did with naked ACA repeal. If it gets to Ryan’s desk early enough for them to rush it through the House, it’s a done deal and we’re screwed. if it gets delayed long enough for the shutdown to steal all the media oxygen, it’s chance of getting reconciled is far less.

  122. 122
    Regnad Kcin says:

    @jonas: all of time, katie

  123. 123
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s fully okay to be racist in the GOP. The entire party needs to be taken down when Mueller brings Trump down.

  124. 124
    mike in dc says:

    Since Tom Steyer likes to burn his own money, maybe he could offer 100 million dollars for the Apprentice outtakes.

  125. 125
    Kryptik says:

    @randy khan:

    And between Citizens United and the Kobaches of the world, they may simply not have to care about those silly little proles once this goes through. This is the behavior of a party that is convinced they won’t have to face electoral consequences ever again. And the terrifying this is they may be right.

  126. 126
    TenguPhule says:

    @ArchTeryx:

    Is why I say every day’s delay works in our favor, just as it did with naked ACA repeal.

    Unfortunately, under the current rules there is literally nothing legal we can do to delay this shit. That’s why they’re doing it this way in the first place.

  127. 127
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @TenguPhule:
    When will enough be enough and the congressional GOP and their donors are strung up?

  128. 128
    WaterGirl says:

    Maybe Barack Obama needs to come out in favor of the so-called tax bill? Maybe that could save us.

  129. 129
    hueyplong says:

    So there were so few people willing to be the Opiods Czar that the White House had staffers on hand draw straws, regardless of qualification?

    Is this is a position so utterly lacking in cachet that no Trump family member/in-law would take it?

    Or is the failure to add it to Jared’s portfolio an indication that he’s about to get a good look at bus undercarriage?

  130. 130
    randy khan says:

    @ArchTeryx:

    Exactly, and that’s why nobody would buy the over-55 exemption. You can be sure that AARP would be clear on that.

  131. 131
    Kathleen says:

    Deleted

  132. 132
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Kryptik:
    As I’ve said before, people like the Koch brothers are mortal. They’re not Gods as much as they’d like to think so. They bleed like the rest of us. And its getting to the point that they need to be afraid of the “proles”.

  133. 133
    TenguPhule says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: We don’t have the organization for that. We’re still infighting over Franken, FFS.

    What is going to happen is that organized crime is about to get a lot more powerful in America.

  134. 134
    Raoul says:

    A lot that boggles the mind about this. Not the least is that the tax plan as understood will force a $25 billion/year cut to Medicare. Medicare, the incredibly popular plan for seniors. Y’know, the people in Arizona, Florida and etc that vote Republican.

    I am gobsmacked.

  135. 135
    hueyplong says:

    @WaterGirl: I am still embittered over the Obamas’ refusal to do a joint PSA in which they arrogantly instruct the common clay of the new west not to drink bleach under any circumstances.

  136. 136
    TenguPhule says:

    @Raoul: It is cleverly designed to ensure that any Republican losses in 2018 can be made good in 2020 once the rest of the poison pills explode and Democrats can’t clean them up for lack of super majorities.

  137. 137
    gene108 says:

    @TenguPhule:

    @jonas: And they had to raise taxes in 1984 because those tax cuts did so much damage to federal revenues.

    They raised taxes in 1982. The following year, because the 1981 tax cuts blow such a big whole in the budget.

  138. 138
  139. 139
    TenguPhule says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: They’re old and have no hostages to fortune. They fear nothing.

  140. 140
    TenguPhule says:

    @gene108: My bad, typed too fast and didn’t catch it in time.

  141. 141
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @TenguPhule:
    Everybody fears death, no matter how old they are or how satisfied with how they’ve lived; and getting really dark people also fear how they die and for how long.

  142. 142
    Kryptik says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    If it were just the Kochs and their ilk, it might be ok. But we’ve seen how convinced much of the GOP base is that any source of their distress is the fault of the Dems and the ‘other’, it’s folly to imagine that all the outrage will be vented toward the actual culprits. And between police departments nationwide left in the thrall of white-supremacists, a draconian and racist DoJ, and local gov’ts nigh-dominated by Republicans across the board, it feels like any window of possibility to actually fight back is narrowing shut by the minute with no hope of wedging it back open. Not without blood on the streets, and we’ve seen where all the guns have been going thanks to the increasingly feverish NRA.

  143. 143
    J R in WV says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Trump is … an embarrassment to this country.

    Yes, he is! Actually, he is an embarrassment to the human race!!!

  144. 144
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Uncle Cosmo: Sorry about not removing the last dangling phrase – goddamn PC locked up on the website until editing was no longer possible.

    @TenguPhule: Who was it who said the uberrich would always be able to hire half the proles to kill the other half? And they might not even have to hire them – stick a bunch of alt-Reich gamers into drone controllers & keep them in Cheetohs & they’ll blow away the masses just for the sheer fun of it. Ultimate dehumanization. Oh yeah, we are just about there. Fuck.

  145. 145
    LurkerNoLonger says:

    @d58826: Let’s be honest, she is one of the faces of Meth. Perhaps she will scare some of them straight.

  146. 146
    WaterGirl says:

    I try to tell myself that this piece of shit bill is so bad that it can’t possibly be passed, but I thought Trump the candidate was so awful and his presidency would be the ruin of the United States, and therefore it couldn’t possibly happen. But if this passes, it will be the most depressing thing yet, even worse than the stolen Supreme Court seat.

  147. 147
    Kelly says:

    @gene108: The Raygun economic miracle has been a staple of the R faithful for soooo long. I remember going over the later Raygun tax increases with a cousin way back when B Clinton running a surplus and paying down the national debt. Really annoyed he couldn’t and wouldn’t remember them because our Senator Bob Packwood (R, sex harasser) was instrumental in selling the later Raygun tax increases so the tax increases were all over our local news maybe 10 years earlier.

  148. 148
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Kryptik: Giving up isn’t an option. If they block all peaceful means of changing the hands of power then we’ll have to fight them by other means, even with blood in the streets. Because the alternative of just sitting back and allowing them to enslave and impoverish us all is even worse imo. Republicans aren’t the only ones who can buy guns.

  149. 149
    Jeffro says:

    @Aleta: @scuffletuffle:

    Exactly. Where’s the reporting to make the obvious connection obvious: this is only happening because of big. Fucking. Dark. Money run amok

  150. 150
    Emma says:

    Jesus, this thread has gotten apocalyptic fast.

  151. 151
    TenguPhule says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: Problem is a lot of that feeling is going to be wasted on innocent people. The radio and television media bobble heads are going to blame Democrats, its what they do.

  152. 152
    TenguPhule says:

    @WaterGirl:

    But if this passes, it will be the most depressing thing yet, even worse than the stolen Supreme Court seat.

    And next month Net Neutrality is up on the chopping block, so they can cut us off from BalloonJuice soon enough.

  153. 153
    Kryptik says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    I understand that much, yeah. It just continues to feel like we’re far more surrounded than the polls seem to suggest, mostly because of folks who act embarrassed about Republicans but still support them 100% regardless because the alternative is actually treating non-whites like humans, or Dems like something other than the Source Of All Evil Ever.

  154. 154
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma: If it passes, the minimum timescale for a repeal is three years.

    And that’s only if everything goes our way.

  155. 155
    Emma says:

    @Kryptik: Those people are not the majority, you know.

  156. 156
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Problem is a lot of that feeling is going to be wasted on innocent people. The radio and television media bobble heads are going to blame Democrats, its what they do.

    That is a likely possibility and a sad one. It’s important to not give up on democratic means of fighting them first, but if the rightwing refuses to play by fair rules, then non-wingers have no obligation to do so either. The Republicans don’t know it yet, but they’re going to reap the whirling in more ways than they can imagine. Far worse than just losing a mere election. They’ll wish they’d have listened to us because it will be open season on them.

  157. 157
    Emma says:

    @TenguPhule: And if we take over in 2024? don’t tell me a law can’t be repealed!

    (added) Why is this posting before I’m ready to? Weird!

  158. 158
    Kathleen says:

    I wrote this while Cassidy Graham (Rethug Death Bill V.17.0) was being debated so I’ve dusted it off in honor of Rethug Death Bill V. 18.0. This is one way I channel my rage.

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    Woman: You know, honey, watching the season finale of Game of Thrones got me thinking about Mom.

    Man: What does GOT have to do with your mom, other than the fact she’ll probably die a slow horrible tortuous death like 90% of the characters?

    Woman: Well, she will probably die soon since Obama and Hillary Clinton forced Republicans at gunpoint to gut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid so
    she won’t have money for a funeral. She can’t even afford the rent on her Best Buy Box underneath the Clay Wade Bailey Bridge.

    Man: We tried to warn her that selling both her kidneys so she could buy heart medicine for a month was foolish, but she wouldn’t listen.

    Woman: And now we’ll be on the hook for her funeral. There goes our holiday skiing trip in Telluride.

    Matt L. Has this happened to you? Hi. I’m Matt Lauer and I’m my using star Power to endorse Cassidy-Graham Dystopoian Disposal Service, a cost effective plan my Republican
    friends have created to help you dispose of your unloved burdensome family members. Decisions about Cemetery plots, head stones, coffins, or cremations take
    time and effort and can end up costing you thousands of dollars. But thanks to Cassidy Graham Dystopian Disposal Service all You have to do is ask your Designated
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    “Ever since I was a first grader at St.Modo Patron Saint of Perpetual Petulance Grade School I’ve been praying that the Free Market would provide me with a cost effective
    way to have unloved ones wrapped in blankets and curated in abandoned subdivisions. Now my prayers have been answered! Thanks, Cassidy Graham!”
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    But now, thanks to Cassidy Graham Dystopian Disposal Service, Republicans can finally give Americans the Freedom To Die With Indignity (Trademark).”

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    Cassidy Graham Dystopian Disposal Service. Why lose your shirt when they lose their lives?

  159. 159
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Corporations are people, my friend

  160. 160
    Kathleen says:

    @d58826: Congrats Malibu Meth Barbie!

  161. 161
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    Where’s Adam? We need a post on the embassy move in Israel. You know just to make us all feel even worse.

  162. 162
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma: That is factoring a takeover with super majorities in 2020. Congress gets sworn in 2021.

  163. 163
    matt says:

    This is what happens with a nonrepresentative, illegitimate government. It ends up beholden to people other than the people and has to keep extracting from the people to pay them. In this case it’s a class of parasitic plutocrats who own the crappy, illegitimate government. A fair system for electing a democratic government is the remedy, but I fear we’re too far gone to ever get something like that.

  164. 164
    Emma says:

    @TenguPhule: Nations have survived worse for longer. And a Resistance can be underground as well as above. But I’m not ready to join the Bladerunner universe yet.

  165. 165
    MjOregon says:

    @J R in WV: We don’t have any regular weekly/monthly/yearly income except for our monthly Social Security deposits. We did take a small distribution from our 401K this year that I fully expect to pay taxes on, but that still shouldn’t put us over the line for no income taxes on the SS portion of our yearly income. What I’m concerned with this tax abscess bill they’re forcing through, is that SS will be taxable even if you don’t have any other income. If they’ve done away with so many of the middle class deductions like state/local income taxes, real estate taxes, and mortgage deduction, I wouldn’t put it past them to have stuck another poison pill making SS taxable no matter what.

  166. 166
    Yutsano says:

    Prediction: there is going to be A LOT of action in the Western states that will go directly against the federal government. It might not be an outright secession, but I could see California, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington entering into compacts meant to ameliorate the worst effects of these laws. Hell maybe Washington will finally get that high wage earner income tax. I just don’t see the West laying back and accepting this.

  167. 167
    Kryptik says:

    @Emma:

    They aren’t by sheer numbers, but between relative power, disenfranchisement, financial power, and the sheer amount of media megaphone power afforded, they damn well may as well be, which is the entire point: we live in an age where sheer numbers mean jack all anymore.

  168. 168
    bemused says:

    I didn’t get the impression that Rubio was well-off when he went into politics but perhaps he’s gotten considerably wealthier since being a Republican senator and all. Still, there are Republican legislators that aren’t millionaires. Are they not concerned what their senior years and their kid’s future will look like after they’ve torn down this country?

  169. 169
    Anonymous patient says:

    @Kryptik:

    we’ve seen where all the guns have been going

    Actually, liberals are still allowed to purchase guns. Even at a gun show, with no paperwork on file. Then liberals will be able to protest the end of their Social Security payments, just before they starve to death.

    I know that if I am put in a position of certain death, I will invest all I have left in wreaking vengence on those who took my pension away from me. Same for medical care. Take it away and suffer, bitches.

  170. 170
    TenguPhule says:

    @bemused:

    I didn’t get the impression that Rubio was well-off when he went into politics but perhaps he’s gotten considerably wealthier since being a Republican senator and all.

    He’s been living off a wealthy wingnut’s contributions. It came up during the election primaries.

  171. 171
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma: Three years with that tax abomination as law of the land and we’ll be wishing it was Bladerunner.

  172. 172
    TenguPhule says:

    Finally, some good news!

    Post Nation
    Nazi sympathizer profiled by the New York Times says he lost his job and — soon — his home

    Tony Hovater, the white nationalist and Nazi sympathizer featured in a controversial New York Times story this weekend, said he lost his job and would soon lose his home following a swift backlash over the article.

    Hovater, a 29-year-old Ohio resident, told The Washington Post on Wednesday that he has been fired from his job and that he and his wife, Maria, are in the process of moving out of their home in New Carlisle, Ohio for financial and safety reasons. They could no longer afford to pay the rent, he said, and somebody had published their home address online.

    Na na na, na na na. Hey hey, Goodbye!

  173. 173
    pattonbt says:

    I see a lot of comments like “why don’t the Republicans stand up to Trump and oppose if they hate him so much!”. Forgetting the fact this tax plan and all other “policies” the R’s have existed well before Trump. These aren’t “Trump’s” policies, these are the policies of the R legislators – they are the ones who want this and who are pushing for this. Trump is along for the ride (and a few $’s in his pocket). Trump has no clue on any policy at all – he could be swayed to support the most leftist policy if he thought it would give him a “win” or make him look good.

    So to expect R legislators to oppose this (or ACA repeal, more war, bad judges, money in politics, hating the other and on and on and on and on) just because they hate Trump misses the point – they want this and know 1) Trump will sign it and 2) Trump will take the biggest hit.

    And unfortunately, if this passes, I do not have any faith the R’s will really face any serious electoral consequences. But, I do believe this bill is not a certainty. I do think the R’s can figure out a way to screw this up – they just do not know how to govern / legislate.

  174. 174
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: trying to appease Adelson.

  175. 175
    Kathleen says:

    @TenguPhule: Cue new slew of NYT articles on Nazis who are persecuted.

  176. 176
    Emma says:

    @Kryptik: Not if they act in concert. Take this bunch at BJ: I’ll bet we could create a barter community or an underground railroad. I think you’ll find that there will be two sorts of actions taken. One, try to fight above ground, legally. And two, create all sorts of underground actions to derail the government. I know just from having lived through crappy times that people will create all sort of illegal economic structures to avoid having to hand their money over to the government. Barter and tax avoidance will boom, for example. Is it going to be fun? No. Will we come out the same way we went in? No. But we will make it.

  177. 177
    chris says:

    @TenguPhule: What a sin! Hahaha

  178. 178
    gene108 says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    As I’ve said before, people like the Koch brothers are mortal. They’re not Gods as much as they’d like to think so. They bleed like the rest of us. And its getting to the point that they need to be afraid of the “proles”.

    When Republican politicians talk about 2nd Amendment, they think it will be conservatives mad about environmental regulations.

    I hope it will be the proles rising up against the oligarchs and their political lackeys. They need to know fear.

  179. 179
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma: Which is why they’re gonna butcher Net Neutrality next month, to make organization online more difficult.

  180. 180
    Emma says:

    @TenguPhule: Oh for Jesus crying out loud. If the American Dream is so fragile that it can be destroyed completely in three years, perhaps it’s not worth saving.

  181. 181
    Emma says:

    @TenguPhule: And we forgot how to read on paper already? Eastern Europe survived decades on crappy bits of mimeographed paper!

  182. 182
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    @Emma:

    The thread title sort of guaranteed that.

  183. 183
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma: Many people are already living one or two paychecks from homelessness. This abomination is going to put pressure on them to cheat on their taxes and drive people out of teaching and education among other areas. And those are areas already hurting for lack of warm bodies.

  184. 184
    gene108 says:

    @Kryptik:

    Not without blood on the streets, and we’ve seen where all the guns have been going thanks to the increasingly feverish NRA.

    No law is stopping liberals from stockpiling guns, forming militias and planning to fight a fascist future.

  185. 185
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @TenguPhule: Headline is wrong should read:

    Nazi profiled by the New York Times says he lost his job and — soon — his home

  186. 186
    bemused says:

    @TenguPhule:

    No doubt but he’s only 46. He must be counting on the conservative gravy train to go on for another 40 years or so. Short term gain and the hell with the long term.

  187. 187
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma: Eastern Europe also remained under Soviet Control until the Soviet military ran out of money and ammunition.

  188. 188
  189. 189
    matt says:

    @Emma: It was already in the ICU after having the crap beaten out of it.

  190. 190
    bemused says:

    @TenguPhule:

    People like this never look ahead and think what could possibly go wrong if I do that interview.

  191. 191
    Duane says:

    My congress crud Billy Long (R-fat cat) traveled with Trump today to St. Charles, Mo to support his tax scam St. Charles isn’t part of his distict, and the House was in session today. I called two of his office’s and let them know I didn’t apreciate his missing work or his vote for the tax scam.

  192. 192
    debbie says:

    @TenguPhule:

    They could no longer afford to pay the rent, he said, and somebody had published their home address online.

    Ironic that this sort of thing used to happen to Jews.

  193. 193
    fuckwit says:

    the purpose of this bill is to destroy the blue states utterly.

    you won’t be able to deduct state taxes. at a all. fuck you, california and massachussetts. texas doesn’t have any state tax.

  194. 194
    Emma says:

    @TenguPhule: Yes, and? I didn’t say it would exciting, or good, or fun. And there will be a hell of a lot of debris to pick up after it’s all over. But we can survive it.

  195. 195
    TenguPhule says:

    @bemused: Its what still gives me hope.

  196. 196
    Emma says:

    You know what? Screw it.Wallow in your hopelessness and your helplessness. Me, I have no children, so no worries. I’ll pick up stakes and lose a country for a second time. Because I’m willing to fight but not with an army of Eeyores. I’m not that suicidal.

  197. 197
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma:

    But we can survive it.

    I hope so.

    But I still have scars from 2010, 2012, 2014 & 2016, we’ve been pillared by the public for Republican fuckups when it comes time to assign the blame for their pain.

  198. 198
    Emma says:

    @TenguPhule:

    we’ve been pillared by the public for Republican fuckups when it comes time to assign the blame for their pain.

    This is where we go wrong. I’ve noticed this habit of ours to complain about how we’re always blamed, blah,blah, blah. If we’re looking for validation and acceptance, we’ll always lose. We need to apply the Southern Model: those SOB’s are still fighting the Civil War. We should be like them: We want what we want and it’s not negotiable and screw you.

  199. 199
    FlyingToaster says:

    @TenguPhule: It’s looking more and more like Neuromancer is coming, if you ask me.

  200. 200
    bemused says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Heh, me too. That Republican overreaching is a thing they’ve always done and I have some hope their most vile overreach yet will have ruinous outcome for them. Karma is long overdue for them.

  201. 201
    eemom says:

    @Emma:

    Wallow in your hopelessness and your helplessness.

    Well said. Came here to say more or less the same thing except I do have kids (and dogs) and unfortunately can’t get the fuck out of this country for now.

    fwiw, our genius prognosticators have been wrong before. See, e.g., Cole’s 2009 laments that the ACA — then HCR — was fucking doomed, and Doug!’s multi-part “Grounds on Which Repubs Are Gonna Impeach Obama” betting pool.

  202. 202
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma:

    We want what we want and it’s not negotiable and screw you.

    See, this is what I want to happen.

    The trick is convincing our damn leadership to darn the torpedoes and fight.

  203. 203
    SFAW says:

    @Emma:

    Me, I have no children, so no worries. I’ll pick up stakes and lose a country for a second time. Because I’m willing to fight but not with an army of Eeyores.

    Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out. But thanks for your sternly-worded letter.

  204. 204
    Schlemazel says:

    @Emma:
    Well, aren’t you just a special little snowflake concerned with all humanity? Please endeavor mightily to prevent the portal blocking device from impacting the posterior portion of your person as you make your egress

  205. 205
    TenguPhule says:

    @eemom:

    Doug!’s multi-part “Grounds on Which Repubs Are Gonna Impeach Obama” betting pool.

    To be fair, they actually did file some, only their saner heads managed to keep them from actually voting on them.

  206. 206
    TenguPhule says:

    @bemused: When their exhaust ports open, I want a couple of nice proton torpedoes ready to pop inside.

  207. 207
    SFAW says:

    @Schlemazel:

    Please endeavor mightily to prevent the portal blocking device from impacting the posterior portion of your person as you make your egress

    Fucking edumacated, polysyllabic show-off.

    ETA: I had a mini-epiphany (and it ain’t even January!): The “I got no responsibilities to others, so I’ll just leave! And I’m tired of listening to those of you who aren’t fighters like Bernie!” is just a re-spinning of “heightening the contradictions” when you have the luxury of not being significantly hurt by the results.

  208. 208
    eemom says:

    @Emma:

    Similarly that sickening “IOKIYAR” endlessly sheep-bleated bullshit. Question for every one of the hundreds of morons who have re-bleated it in their comments here: what purpose did it serve? Did it never occur to you that we need to CALL OUT hypocrisy every time it happens? Or did typing that stupid 7 letter meme make you feel like some wise world-weary sage?

  209. 209
    Aleta says:

    (via Yashar Ali 🐘)

    Nathaniel Meyersohn @nmeyersohn
    A picture of two black men sits below this tweet. Moore reaching into Lee Atwater’s playbook.
    Judge Roy Moore. @xxx
    BREAKING: Democrat operatives in Alabama are REGISTERING THOUSANDS OF FELONS all across the state in an effort to swing the US Senate election to Doug Jones!

  210. 210
    Emma says:

    @TenguPhule: Are you joking? The vast majority of politicians follow, they don’t lead. We have to get it through their heads that if they don’t do what we tell them, there are such things as primaries.

  211. 211
    Emma says:

    @SFAW: Go to hell. I’m the one trying to get people off their arses and into the ring. I’m the one screaming at the defeatists. And I’m the problem? Jeez, no wonder we are so screwed up.

  212. 212
    Honus says:

    @LurkerNoLonger: shoot themselves in the Dick? West Virginians voted for this by something like 70-30 and they will do do again. Louis Gomert has a totally safe seat. A million Texans vote for him every two years. People are begging for this, good and hard.

  213. 213
    Emma says:

    @eemom: Oh yeah. That one should drop into the event horizon of a new black hole.

  214. 214
    SFAW says:

    @eemom:

    Did it never occur to you that we need to CALL OUT hypocrisy every time it happens?

    I’m sure that has never occurred to the millions thousands hundreds of us morons, because, being morons, we are unable to hold more than half a thought in our teeny-tiny heads, nor walk and chew gum at the same time, and thus cannot comment ruefully bleat and take other measures at the same time.

    Or has this place become the go-to resource for educating the populace about the hypocrisy of Rethugs et al., and I missed it?

  215. 215

    @Emma: FWIW I am with you, I too hate this bleating chorus of negativity.

  216. 216
    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us? says:

    And “even the liberal” NPR has had 4 Republicans on their flagship morning news show to discuss this abomination over the past two days, with not a single democrat to offer a counterpoint. They claim to be unbiased. Yeah, right.

  217. 217
    Another Scott says:

    @Emma: The pie filter is your friend. :-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  218. 218
    TenguPhule says:

    @eemom:

    Question for every one of the hundreds of morons who have re-bleated it in their comments here: what purpose did it serve?

    Bitter snark. I’ve argued with people IRL about the double standard till I was blue in the face. Wasted effort.

  219. 219
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma: The DNC leadership is one of those I had in mind.

  220. 220
    Emma says:

    @Another Scott: I’d have to pie a third of the bunch. And truly most of them aren’t so horrible that I would. I have three or four folk already there,mind you.

  221. 221
    SFAW says:

    @Emma:

    Bite me. You seem to be among the august crowd here who thinks that when someone says “we are so fucked,” that it means the writer has given up.

    On the other hand, some of us can say WASF, and still take action, because — unlike some snowflakes (h/t Schlemazel) — we don’t have the luxury of moving out of the country, pulling up stakes, etc., so we know something needs to get done. We also know that we may not succeed in effecting change, but still try. But I’ll remember not to complain around you, since it obviously upsets you mightily — more than the Rethugs do, seemingly.

  222. 222
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I’m open to suggestions as to how we find the two Republican defectors necessary to stop this in its tracks.

  223. 223
    Emma says:

    @TenguPhule: The DNC leadership is the least of my worries. They can be dropped on their knees with a concerted campaign of “I’m sorry but I’ve decided my money is going to some of the local Democrats in my district. You don’t do anything for them and I’m not rich enough to do both.”

  224. 224
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma:

    The DNC leadership is the least of my worries.

    We need a decent national structure, local is fine and good but the RNC is kicking our ass when it comes to campaign coordination. And the RNC are a bunch of blithering idiots.

  225. 225
    Emma says:

    @SFAW: You know, if that’s what you get from reading everything I’ve said in this thread, our conversation is over. I have no time to teach you basic reading comprehension.

  226. 226
    SFAW says:

    @Emma:

    I responded to one comment that annoyed me. Sorry if that confused you.

  227. 227
    Honus says:

    @Steve in the ATL: yeah right. Im gonna rely on A trump/McConnell press release for a wage increase. Thanks for the CLE.

  228. 228
    Emma says:

    @TenguPhule: See I see it differently. We don’t need national co-ordination. The DNC is fine to handle presidential elections. What we really need is ten or so people like Kay in each state. We need to take over the state governments and that means we need people on the ground with a lot of local experience.

  229. 229
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma: And as Adam has noted, our Florida Democratic party could not organize a orgy in a whorehouse.

  230. 230
    Emma says:

    @SFAW: @SFAW: @SFAW: @SFAW: It didn’t confuse me. It irritated me because that particular comment ends very clearly stating that I am willing to fight but not with people who start out emotionally defeated.

    WTF is going on today with this thing? Four links?

  231. 231
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma:

    What we really need is ten or so people like Kay in each state.

    Not disagreeing with you here. I just think the DNC should be helping all those Kays by directing lots of money at them so they don’t have to fight unarmed. We should not have to be doing all these independent fundraisers on our own, that’s supposed to be the party’s responsibility.

  232. 232
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma: WP is acting a little touchy today.

  233. 233
    Emma says:

    @TenguPhule: True. But even then I think you could leverage donations. Hmmm….

  234. 234
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    Hey the GOP did not reduce the chocolate ration by 1/4 they increased by 1/3

  235. 235
    smintheus says:

    President Trump’s administration has argued, however, that there were similar complaints about the Reagan tax cut plan of 1981, which preceded an economic boom.

    Yeah, it also preceded the 9/11 attacks. What happened in 1981, as I remember all too well, was that the economy took a sharp nose dive and the worst recession since the Great Depression took hold. There was virtually no improvement for more than 2 years. Unemployment in my state hit 17%. It wasn’t until 1984 that the economy finally began to function again, and the cause was not the tax cut but good old fashioned Keynesian stimulus that Reagan finally agreed to permit as his re-election loomed.

    That’s right, the Reagan economy took off only because Reagan was faced with re-election. I get so sick of Republicans turning our own lived history into myth. I graduated from college in 1982 in the midst of Reagan’s debacle, and there were zero jobs or even job interviews for any of my classmates. It was an economic dessert that Reagan created. It took me 6 months to find a low-paying, dead end job after graduating from college.

  236. 236
    debbie says:

    @Another Scott:

    Everyone piecing everyone is going to make for some odd kind of conversations.

  237. 237
    Emma says:

    @TenguPhule: I see your point, but, if the state structures present the DNC with an ultimatum like “we will raise funds for our local candidate first and foremost and you’re on your own” maybe there could be an accommodation. Again hmmm… we need a good strategist and I’m lousy at it.

  238. 238
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma:

    Again hmmm… we need a good strategist and I’m lousy at it.

    Again, something we need at the national level to get all the local areas pointed and moving in the same direction.

    Our media discipline as a party is a horrid mess, among other things.

  239. 239
    SFAW says:

    @Emma:

    I am willing to fight but not with people who start out emotionally defeated.

    In other words, your “reading comprehension” attempted insult was Rethug-style projection. Because if you bothered to read what I actually blockquoted, and my subsequent replies, you might have obtained a clue as to what I was talking about.

    You might also take a class or two in writing, because your “Eeyore” snark was ambiguous in its focus: did you mean you refuse to get into arguments with Eeyores? Or that you refuse to fight Rethugs when your “compatriots” (so to speak) are “Eeyores”? If the former: that implies that you’re spoiling for a fight with the less-pure here; if the latter, that implies that the “Eeyores” are not worthy to be your allies. I’m guessing it’s the former.

    But, anyway, thanks very much for your concern, and for sharing your thoughts.

  240. 240
    TenguPhule says:

    @debbie: Pie-rats will take over the blog.

  241. 241
    SFAW says:

    @Emma:

    if the state structures present the DNC with an ultimatum like “we will raise funds for our local candidate first and foremost and you’re on your own” maybe there could be an accommodation.

    Interesting idea. (Yes, I mean it.)

  242. 242
    Emma says:

    @SFAW: Nice attempt at reading my thoughts instead of my words. Also nice attempt at asking me what I meant before firing off. Thank you for your concern. I like to think we here are all on the same side.

  243. 243
    SFAW says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Our media discipline as a party is a horrid mess, among other things.

    Co-sign

  244. 244
    Emma says:

    @TenguPhule: No, see, I don’t trust top down control. Having grown up in the society completely screwed up by the National Revolutionary Committee, a.k.a the Castro brothers and their cronies, I think a network of equals might be better. Even if the negotiations would give St. Francis palpitations.

  245. 245
    But her emails!!! says:

    @TenguPhule:
    If they suck that bad at organizing, it should be easy for a cadre of organized democrats to take over the reins of the state party.

  246. 246
    SFAW says:

    @Emma:

    Nice attempt at reading my thoughts instead of my words. Also nice attempt at asking me what I meant before firing off. Thank you for your concern.

    And yet you still seem unable to comprehend what I wrote.

    I guess the first question I should have asked was “Do you understand what the expression ‘don’t let the door hit you’ means?” Because THAT (i.e., don’t let the door etc.) was the very first thing I wrote in response to your comment.

    And yet you seem to want to pretend there was all sorts of other shit (at the beginning of this).

  247. 247
  248. 248
    danielx says:

    @scuffletuffle:

    This.

    I keep wondering when one of the larger media organizations is finally going to say out loud what everybody knows and just call campaign contributions what they are – investments, better known as bribes. Republican solons are in such a panic about the tax bill that they are actually admitting out loud that that if they don’t get this done, the financial contributions will stop.

    Congressmen aren’t whores, they’re pimps. We’re the whores, and they are publicly auctioning us off in front of the God with whose name they’re so free and everybody else.

    I will no doubt still be wondering and waiting when I go to sleep for the last time.

  249. 249
  250. 250
    Another Scott says:

    @Emma: The number of links before FYWP got increased from 3 to 5 (or so?) a while back. I wish it were more, but it helps!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  251. 251
    Another Scott says:

    @debbie: Yup. But since we don’t have threaded comments here, we’re all used to weirdness. Amirite?

    >;-p

    Cheers,
    Scott.
    (Who has 23 entries in his pie filter at the moment, but most are ancient.)

  252. 252
  253. 253
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Yutsano: One of the goals of this bill is to make state taxes harder to raise, by eliminating the federal deduction for them. It’s specifically designed to make that kind of blue-state resistance politically difficult.

  254. 254
    frosty says:

    @smintheus:

    I graduated from college in 1982 in the midst of Reagan’s debacle, and there were zero jobs or even job interviews for any of my classmates.

    I graduated with a MS in Urban Planning in December 1981, just in time for the recession and the gutting of the whole profession. My second lucky degree — I got the BS during Nixon’s recession. Forget career planning, you take whatever you can get, like you said.

  255. 255
    debbie says:

    @Another Scott:

    Not going there!😬

  256. 256
    rikyrah says:

    @Aleta:
    I honestly didn’t think that Alabama would allow for ex-felons to get the franchise back.

  257. 257
    eemom says:

    @TenguPhule:

    our Florida Democratic party could not organize a orgy in a whorehouse.

    stealing

  258. 258
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Emma: @SFAW: I think you guys are talking past one another a bit. I think that there is a difference between having a bad day and being relentlessly negative. I also think that there is a difference between seeing a bad situation and wanting fight on and seeing that situation and curling up on a ball in the corner. Here, on a blog, it can sometimes be hard to tell who falls in which category.

  259. 259
    Bill Arnold says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Na na na, na na na. Hey hey, Goodbye

    Did people really think this wouldn’t happen?

Comments are closed.