Convert that Gravy Boat into a Battleship!

As is its wont, Fox News is ginning up outrage among the duct-taped naugahyde recliner set by highlighting godless liberals’ plans to persecute Trump supporters over turkey this year:

The suggestions for how to ruin Trump-supporting relatives’ holiday dinner in the linked GQ article are clearly tongue-in-cheek and purposely silly. But this part is kinda true, IMO:

This year, if you’re headed home to a household that still thinks a sex-offending game show host in rapid cognitive decline was the best choice for a president, it is your civic duty to filibuster Thanksgiving.

Trump has spent the entire year performing one long, clumsy touchdown dance atop the wreckage of America’s former norms and values… Any parents still riding the Trump Train at this point have thereby signaled that nothing is sacred. It is time to follow their example. They can’t stand idly by while President Deals tramples every other American tradition and yet somehow expect that Thanksgiving will be normal too. If every other moment of this year is going to be drastically out of whack, nobody should get to pretend that everything is normal for one meal just because that’s what the pilgrims would have done.

It’s not so much that Trump supporters don’t deserve a normal Thanksgiving (although they don’t); it’s that we who are related to or otherwise entangled with these assholes have a duty to try burst their bubble of complacency.

As it should be, this obligation is borne almost exclusively by my fellow white people — it was our demographic cohort that foisted this treasonous buffoon on the world, and it’s on us Saltine-Americans to try to fix it.

Trump voters should know we feel demeaned every goddamned day that dawns with a self-described sexual predator (and child molester apologist!) representing our country. We should make them aware that we’re appalled that literal Nazis and white nationalist trash are elevated and empowered by this administration.

Trump supporters should understand that we’re repulsed by the Bible-humping hypocrites who flock to support their degenerate president, and that we’re revolted by the arrogant, preening, phony morality of anti-gay creeps like Mike Pence.

We should point out that the huckster-in-chief invited a gaggle of plutocrats to loot the U.S. Treasury while he and his pack of grifting-hyena relatives convert the presidency into a personal branding engine and profit center. That “drain the swamp” thing was 100% bullshit, and if they’re still lapping it up, Trump supporters are a con man’s willing dupes.

And Trump supporters should know we’re repelled by people who wrap themselves in the flag and invoke “the troops” as an excuse to cram their jingoism down our throats while at the same time expressing enthusiasm about a foreign autocrat undermining our democracy or turning a blind eye to it.

I could go on, but the point is, this shit is not normal, and if we’re ever going to get within hailing distance of normal again, we must not only call out Trump and his official minions, we must confront the people who put him where he is. Even if they are our dads, aunties, cousins, etc.

The techniques to confront MAGAts vary. I favor sarcasm. Valued commenter Mnemosyne has described a gambit that I’ve found particularly effective in exposing the stupidity at the core of Trumpian conspiracy theories: Feign ignorance when wingnuts repeat some chain-email lie, politely ask them to elaborate and ask pointed questions until the full lunacy of the premise is exposed, sometimes even to the speaker, who eventually trails off in embarrassment or changes the subject.

Anyhoo, arm yourselves with the rhetorical weapons that suit you best, including sweet reason and loving kindness, if that’s your thing. As I mentioned yesterday, I’m off the hook on Thanksgiving Day since no Trump-supporting relatives will be in attendance. But I will be seeing them over the coming weeks, and I will give no quarter. They don’t deserve it, and these days, silence equals complicity with a white supremacy agenda. Fuck that!

164 replies
  1. 1
    EBT says:

    I have seen that before used to shotgun 3 joints at once.

  2. 2
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    As it should be, this obligation is borne almost exclusively by my fellow white people — it was our demographic cohort that foisted this treasonous buffoon on the world, and it’s on us Saltine-Americans to try to fix it.

    Nope the key to solving this problem is to concentrate on getting votes from African-Americans and Latinx communities.

  3. 3
    lamh36 says:

    Doug Jones campaign’s latest ad!!!

    Good for Doug Jones campaign. Win or Lose make Alabama Republican voters OWN IT!!

    https://twitter.com/gdouglasjones/status/933391015725207553

  4. 4
  5. 5
    Corner Stone says:

    I canceled Thanksgiving again this year. So that’s how I dealt with it.

  6. 6
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Our Thanksgiving promises to have large quantities of food and wine and zero Trump supporters. I am looking forward to it.

  7. 7
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Amaranthine RBG: That’s what I focus on when I’m volunteering for the Democratic Party. But when I am interacting with my Trump-voting relatives, my goal is to shame those fuckers into never voting again — and to comprehend the magnitude of what they did by electing an unfit creep. I’ll admit progress has been limited, but I do believe in the obligation.

  8. 8
    r€nato says:

    Fight at a meta-level: It is ALWAYS the Right that has chosen to politicize the holiday season. By engaging in ideological combat at the T-day table, you’re accepting the premise that’s it’s OK to waste time debating and debunking inflammatory right-wing bullshit whose sole aim is to further divide Americans from one another.

    In this house, guests who attempt this shit are first politely shut down and encouraged to re-direct their discussion to something that’s less of a minefield. Clueless guests who don’t take the hint are shut down more firmly.

    When a guest at others’ homes who try this shit, I aggressively ignore such attempts. It’s their house, they can behave as they wish, and it’s my right to say nothing in reply to these petty provocations including staring at them while letting the uncomfortable silence hang in the air. On one occasion, the partisan political crap from the host cretins got so obnoxious I got up and left, and never accepted any further invitations.

  9. 9
    JPL says:

    This is the first year that I will dine with Trump supporters. I’m going to the DIL’s parents house. It’s also the first year that I won’t be cooking, so there is that.

  10. 10
    Ryan says:

    Two words. Happy Holidays.

    Make the War on Christmas Great Again!

  11. 11
    Brachiator says:

    Anyhoo, arm yourselves with the rhetorical weapons that suit you best, including sweet reason and loving kindness, if that’s your thing. As I mentioned yesterday, I’m off the hook on Thanksgiving Day since no Trump-supporting relatives will be in attendance. But I will be seeing them over the coming weeks, and I will give no quarter. They don’t deserve it, and these days, silence equals complicity with a white supremacy agenda. Fuck that!

    I mentioned this in an earlier thread, and it may help again here.

    The “Make Me Smart” podcast, also available for streaming via your friendly neighborhood browser.

    Episode 42: BREAKING BREAD WITHOUT CONFLICT. How to survive the holidays when no one shares your worldview.

    Retired cognitive science and linguistics professor George Lakoff appeared in a previous episode, explaining how your brain reacts to political rhetoric. He’s back this week with tips on how to break through to family members this holiday, even if you don’t share the same worldview.

    Also, we talk a lot about avocado toast on this show. Like, a lot. So we wanted to know: What was the avocado toast — the trendy, divisive foodstuff — of the Victorian era? Culinary historian Heather Arndt Anderson shares the story of an unlikely food trend.

    Happy Turkey Day. Gobble. Gobble.

    Also, I think that stuff should be posted up on FaceBook and elsewhere for your Republican friends and relatives to think about over the holidays.

  12. 12
    JustRuss says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Christ:

    Western civilization slipped from a lineage of reason and talent, free inquiry and unsuppressed creativity, into “Eurocentrism,” one group’s advance at the expense of others, women and people of color. Art for art’s sake gave way to art for politics’ sake, for identity’s sake. I spent my 20s in a grimy room reading Dante, Wordsworth and Nietzsche—only to find when I went to campus that my intellectual giants had become objects of suspicion and derision.

    “And that’s why I voted for Trump.” The fact that this man is serious and, apparently, reasonably intelligent, makes me incredibly sad. I don’t even know where to start, I could write a book. And I think this explains a lot of the, uh, higher-brow Trump supporters.

  13. 13
    Greg says:

    I am afraid to ask about the reported Rep. Joe Barton sexts that passed briefly past my Twitter feed.

  14. 14
    GregB says:

    Passed.

  15. 15
    r€nato says:

    @Gin & Tonic: This year’s T-day festivities will include four people: wife, her mom, her nephew, and myself.

    MIL’s mouthy, opinionated-as-fuck Trumptard sister will not be there. Yay.

    Her equally mouthy, opinionated-as-fuck Trumptard son and DIL will not be there. Yay.

    My mouthy, opinionated-as-fuck Trumptard mother and not-so-mouthy Trumptard stepdad are out of town. Yay.

    I’m actually looking forward very much to T-day. There will be drinking but this time it won’t be in order to make the company more bearable.

  16. 16
    r€nato says:

    @Ryan: I’m going with #AllHolidaysMatter this year, but HH works fine as well. Trumptards are so easily triggered it makes it fun to fuck with them.

  17. 17
    TenguPhule says:

    Sorry Betty, even I draw the line at violating Sacred Hospitality.

    Either don’t attend at all or grin and bear it.

    I am not letting Donald Fucking Trump destroy a meaningful tradition older then dirt that is part of what makes us human.

  18. 18
    Ryan says:

    @r€nato: Brilliant!

  19. 19
    Betty Cracker says:

    @r€nato:

    By engaging in ideological combat at the T-day table, you’re accepting the premise that’s it’s OK to waste time debating and debunking inflammatory right-wing bullshit whose sole aim is to further divide Americans from one another.

    Before an openly racist, sexist, xenophobic demagogue ran on a nakedly white nationalist platform and colluded with a foreign autocrat to steal an election in my country, I would have called that opinion reasonable.

  20. 20
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @JustRuss:

    “Eurocentrism,” one group’s advance at the expense of others, women and people of color. Art for art’s sake gave way to art for politics’ sake, for identity’s sake. I spent my 20s in a grimy room reading Dante, Wordsworth and Nietzsche—only to find when I went to campus that my intellectual giants had become objects of suspicion and derision.

    I suspect he’s exaggerating about the campus’ treatment of Nietzsche and the others. But really, maybe Western school curriculums really were Eurocentric the entire time and Tom just never noticed because that was considered normal?

  21. 21
    Chyron HR says:

    @Amaranthine RBG:

    Ha ha ha, it’s funny because we’re supposed to ignore “identity politics” and focus solely on the not-enough-pedophiles-in-Congress anxiety economic anxiety of the white master race working class. Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

  22. 22
    TenguPhule says:

    @Betty Cracker: Why not just boycott? No half-ass measures of going to pick a fight at a family gathering in your or their home. Just cut them off cold until they repent or hell freezes over, whichever comes first.

  23. 23
    Mnemosyne says:

    @r€nato:

    it’s my right to say nothing in reply to these petty provocations including staring at them while letting the uncomfortable silence hang in the air

    This is actually a pretty good way to handle it when it happens in someone else’s house. Don’t even argue — just stare at them like they let out a stinky fart and you’re waiting for their apology. Don’t do them the favor of changing the subject for them. Just stare until they have to do it themselves.

  24. 24
    Droppy says:

    My method doesn’t work very well, but it’s easy to remember:

    Republican Relative: Yea Trump!
    Me: I hate you.
    RR: Shrillary Emails, can you even?
    Me: I hate you.
    RR: Why isn’t there a National Association for the Advancement of White People?
    Me: I hate you.
    etc., etc.

  25. 25
    marcopolo says:

    @Betty Cracker: I guess I am lucky in that the only Trump voter I know and therefore have to shame is my next door neighbor. When I ribbed him yesterday over Trump endorsing the pedophile for AL Senate he actually called Trump an idiot. Mind you, this was the term I was using for Trump back around January 2016, and I now call him much much worse things but I will take it as progress. And if I can get him to vote for Claire McCaskill over the R challenger then I will consider my work complete. I’ve been working on him over that for a month or so now and have him to the point of admitting that “at least she is sane.” We’ll see.

  26. 26
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @ABG
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O9dg2EZeZf8

  27. 27
    Brachiator says:

    By the way, the Senate Republicans dumped their 500 page version of tax reform last night. The GOP is going to push hard to get this turkey passed before they adjourn for the Christmas holidays.

    The Senate Finance Committee (SFC) on the evening of November 20 unveiled the legislative text of its tax reform proposal, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Bill. A Section-by-Section summary of the bill was also released.

    The SFC passed its measure to overhaul the tax code on a party-line vote just before recessing for the Thanksgiving holiday. The 515-page bill is headed to the Senate floor for a full chamber vote after lawmakers return during the week of November 27. Amendments are expected to be offered on the Senate floor.

    A couple of low-lights.

    The Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center (TPC) released a distributional analysis on November 20 of the SFC-approved tax reform proposal, finding that it would reduce taxes on average for all income groups in 2019 and 2025. “In general, higher income households receive larger average tax cuts as a percentage of after-tax income, with the largest cuts as a share of income going to taxpayers in the 95th to 99th percentiles of the income distribution,” the TPC noted. However, in 2027 TPC estimates that taxes would rise for the lowest-income group, change marginally for middle-income taxpayers and decrease for higher-income groups.

    Economic anxiety now, economic anxiety tomorrow, economic anxiety forever!

  28. 28
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @r€nato: My 93-year-old, mouthy and opinionated mother-in-law freely shares her view that Donald Trump is a moron, using colorful language, much to the amusement of her grandchildren. The only Trump supporter I can think of in the family is one son-in-law’s father, but he lives in Florida (naturally) and doesn’t get up this way very often.

  29. 29
    trollhattan says:

    Heading to in-laws but a family branch I can’t even guess if they vote, much less for whom so am not expecting much drama. Other than the spousal unit blurting out her Trump hatred at some point but that’s already a known fact.

  30. 30
    r€nato says:

    @Mnemosyne: I place a lot of importance on being a polite and well-mannered guest; I very much resent the fuck out of people who put me in the uncomfortable situation of dying to say what I think (“you’re such a fucking ignorant fucking idiot”)… but then if I say that *I* become the bad guy, the bad guest… so I have to sit there and say nothing. Which also pisses me off. It’s not neutral ground, it’s not a fair fight so to speak.

    ALL of my folks’ friends are serious right-wingers. About five or six years ago on one of those spring holidays (Mother’s Day or Easter), one of their mouthy, opinionated-as-fuck friends actually YELLED “WHAT ARE YOU STILL BLAMING BUSH?” at me – in response to an innocent comment that was in no way expressed confrontationally – while wearing the nastiest most hateful look on his face that he could muster, in a full restaurant. I wanted to slug him right then and there. My folks just sat there and said nothing at all to back me up. I’d happily bet every dollar I have that if the shoe had been on their foot, I never would have heard the end of it from them for not backing them up and for how rude my friend was to her.

    My mother claims to not remember this incident. She’s a fucking liar; she frequently has these convenient memory lapses AAMOF.

  31. 31
    Brachiator says:

    Convert that Gravy Boat into a Battleship!

    Hmmm. Gravy Boat Diplomacy!?

    Fortunately for me, friends, family and neighbors are sane, and not Trump supporters.

    Some of the people on my commute, on the other hand ….

  32. 32
    rk says:

    I don’t have any Trump supporting relatives or friends. I cut off any friend who was a republican after the election. Would not interact with any relatives either if they were Trump supporters. All lines have been crossed and there’s no going back as far as today’s republicans are concerned. I’ve even told my kids that if they marry republicans they’re out of my life. Yes I’m bitter! On the plus side my daughter tells me that a number of girls she knows have stopped dating guys who they found out supported Trump. Trump supporters should stick to their own kind. 5-10 years ago I was the person who use to say that I understood why people voted for republicans. Now I say they’re evil fucks!

  33. 33
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lamh36:

  34. 34
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Call me lookist, but that’s an impressive head of hair right there.

  35. 35
    realbtl says:

    Number of people at our old fart’s restaurant table = 6
    Number of MAGAs = 0
    6 + 0 = problem solved.

  36. 36
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: Change your last name to Campbell. You’ll be fine. Also, comes with an instruction manual for what to do with guests.

  37. 37

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): @JustRuss: I unfortunately read partway through that article today. God, fuck him, whatever, done wasting precious brain cells on his existence.

    Our thanksgivings are just me and my parents usually, and this year is no different. We rented a place up in Sonoma (pre-fires, but I hear there’s still plenty to do!) and are heading there this afternoon. So, since we already agree on everything, I haven’t had to worry about all this in years. As such I shall be learning Smalltalk, the programming language, rather than the form of social interaction.

    Oh, there’s a brand new QUEERS HATE TECHIES stencil on my block, so that’s nice to walk by every day.

  38. 38
    dmsilev says:

    @Droppy: If that starts to get tedious, I’d suggest buying one of those horns that Harpo Marx used to carry, and use that as your response.

  39. 39

    @Mnemosyne: This is basically how I handle it in the rare occasion I find myself in such a situation. Works for casual racism and homophobia too!

  40. 40
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Wow, Smalltalk is still a thing?

  41. 41
    Betty Cracker says:

    @TenguPhule: Doesn’t work that way for me. I’m not going to boycott my grandmother’s birthday party, never lay eyes on my father, aunts, uncles, cousins again, etc. For decades, I had a “no politics” rule to keep the peace. I now think that was part of the problem. It was always the peace-loving libtards who invoked the “no politics” rule, and I wonder if letting wingnut family members’ views go unchallenged by people they love and respect allowed those opinions to curdle and get even more poisonous. If Trump and his antics come up now, and they always do, relatives get my unvarnished opinion.

  42. 42
    r€nato says:

    @rk: but… but… it’s your fault Trump was elected, libturd, because women won’t date men who don’t understand consent, can’t distinguish rape and molestation from consensual sex between adults, and generally have knuckle-dragging views

    http://www.harpersbazaar.com/c.....-date-men/

  43. 43
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: I never understood any of this winging. I got the classic, western liberal arts canon. It was never done in a way that was exclusive of anything else and quite often it was done to entice us students into moving from it into other great, foundational works from non western traditions.

  44. 44
    sharl says:

    @Greg: Your comment was the first I’d seen anything on this, then this scrolled by in my twitter feed:

    .@RepJoeBarton apologizes for graphic online photo https://t.co/4pQNMdAC85— Abby Livingston (@TexasTribAbby) November 22, 2017

    Apparently there exist spicy photos of ol’ Smoky Joe in the raw, from earlier post-divorce days when he was involved in “consensual relationships”.
    Enjoy that thought as you sit down for your Thanksgiving meal!

  45. 45
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Droppy: There is a National Association for the Advancement of White People. Several iterations of it from a variety of ideologically related groups.

  46. 46
    Steeplejack says:

    @JustRuss:

    Also weird is the author’s obsessive focus on Trump’s Warsaw speech as some sort of seminal document in defense of Western civilization. I got on the Google to refresh my memory, and what struck me was this: the speech is a defense of Western civilization, but in a pretty specific sense:

    “Americans, Poles, and the nations of Europe value individual freedom and sovereignty,” said Trump, wearing his customary red tie. “We must work together to confront forces, whether they come from inside or out, from the south or the east, that threaten over time to undermine these values and to erase the bonds of culture, faith and tradition that make us who we are.

    “If left unchecked, these forces will undermine our courage, sap our spirit and weaken our will to defend ourselves and our societies.”

    This Politico writer, a professor at Emory University, seems to be cloaking his racism at a higher level of abstraction than “economic anxiety.” And I would love to hear him expand on his premise that the braying vulgarian Trump is some Hellenic exemplar of Western civilization.

  47. 47

    @Gin & Tonic: Some jackass even made a front-end web framework in it that transpiles to javascript.

    I mean, it’s not for work.

  48. 48
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I’m assuming you’re referring to Ms. Gary, because as usual it looks like Andrea Mitchell’s makeup and hair person used a rake to style hers.

  49. 49
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Steeplejack: At least he didn’t say “sap our precious bodily fluids.”

  50. 50
    Ruckus says:

    On Amtrak to visit a great friend, who hates drumpf as much as I do. CA has it’s crazy assholes but they are relagated to some where around third class status. At best.

  51. 51
    Yutsano says:

    @Steeplejack: Stephen Miller took credit for that speech as I recall. And yes “south and east” have strong ethnic associations in Europe. Using that phrasing in Poland was no doubt a deliberate act by that kapo.

  52. 52

    @Adam L Silverman: My alma mater had only recently phased out mandatory “western civ”-type courses (with required works) for Freshmen in favor of a more generalized curriculum, where the same concepts were taught but professors were able to introduce offerings that taught them using whatever works they wanted. I took one on the history of comedy, from Apuleius to Seinfeld. Yes, it was Western, but I chose it, and there were others on offer.

    I think this has now been discontinued but I don’t know what they replaced it with. ETA there’s also an option to do a very intensive residential program freshman year that has a laser-like focus on a traditional western civ curriculum, but that’s for weird kids

    So, like, mandatory Socrates or whatever was on its way out when I went there *cough* fifteen years ago

  53. 53
    Steeplejack says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    The author is Mark Bauerlein. I don’t know where BJT got Tom Buchanan, unless he was going for some Great Gatsby reference.

  54. 54
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Also, comes with an instruction manual for what to do with guests.

    Its a cookbook.

  55. 55
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steeplejack: For white supremacists and neo-nationalists and neo-fascists the speech was taken that way. When they had the informal Polish independence day march a couple of weeks ago that eclipsed in numbers the official commemorations, the neo-nationalist/neo-fascist marchers were chanting parts of the speech as they marched.

    The saddest thing about this is that Emory University, including its 2 year program at its original campus, Oxford College, still teaches the classic liberal arts core. I know, I’m a graduate of both Oxford (90) and Emory (92) colleges and received that education. I don’t know what this guy does, but he should actually check and see what the actual requirements are.

  56. 56
    TenguPhule says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    and I wonder if letting wingnut family members’ views go unchallenged by people they love and respect allowed those opinions to curdle and get even more poisonous.

    I’m afraid they’re gonna pick Trump over you.

  57. 57
    Emma says:

    @r€nato: You are a very good person. If someone had pulled that stunt on me in public I would have walked out and dropped them down the memory black hole. And that would include my parents if they tried to make a case out of it.

  58. 58
    tobie says:

    I’m recovering from surgery so won’t be celebrating Thanksgiving this year. Didn’t realize how depressing this would be. Made a huge pot of a Persian herb and lentil soup (osh-e-reshteh) over the weekend and will feast on that tomorrow with my husband and two friends from Italy, who have no particular attachment to the holiday. All good wishes to BJers who will have to face Trump-voting family or friends.

  59. 59
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: For all their faults, as far as I know the Campbells in the glen were not cannibals.

  60. 60
    PPCLI says:

    @JustRuss:

    I suspect he’s exaggerating about the campus’ treatment of Nietzsche and the others.

    I teach a course devoted solely to Nietzsche once every two years or so, at a well-respected university of the sort that the writer appears to have in mind. It’s a popular course, and there is always a long waiting list.The readings include Dante’s essay on vernacular language (among the resources for understanding what Nietzsche means by “Gay Science”), and Wordsworth (in connection with the idea of Romanticism and Nietzsche’s understanding of it.) So I feel on secure ground in saying that this Mark Bauerlein fellow is full of crap.

  61. 61
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    Cranberry sauce is made.

    Pumpkin pie is in the oven.

  62. 62
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Well there goes Pyongyang!

  63. 63

    @PPCLI: Now, doubtless there are classes for Freshmen that fulfill a humanities requirement that savage Nietzsche, but like most things conservatives complain about re: “college these days!” (or in general) I’m quite sure his complaint is based on a willful misreading of all available information.

  64. 64
    Steeplejack says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Ha! I almost added that in my comment.

  65. 65
    Josie says:

    @Corner Stone: Wow, Cornerstone. Again we agree. My youngest son and I will stay home and avoid the middle son’s Trump supporting in-laws. We plan a very relaxed Thanksgiving.

  66. 66
    Spanky says:

    @TenguPhule:

    I’m afraid they’re gonna pick Trump over you

    Because that’s just what cult members do.

  67. 67
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Betty Cracker: That’s where I’m at.

    I won’t bring this stuff up, but by God if a Trumpster does this at our Thanksgiving I’m coming down on them like a ton of bricks, starting by yelling at them about bringing up politics at our family event. But if they want to discuss, I’ll do it. And I’ll probably ruin the holiday by ending up calling them a racist, sexist idiot.

    It’s on them. I’m done tolerating it.

  68. 68
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @PPCLI: When I was an undergrad I took Bill Shapiro’s (he was my advisor) Neitschean theory class. Also his political theory according to women class. And several other of his upper level political theory classes. I have found that over the years these have always stood me in good stead. I’ll forward the article to Bill in case he wants to give his colleague a piece of his mind.

  69. 69

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): What irritates me about these right wingers is that they vote for people who want to destroy everything dear to us and want to be applauded for it. Sorry, but no, your whining about your imaginary persecution is not going to change my opinion.

  70. 70
    d58826 says:

    hehehe

    WASHINGTON — Ennis Rep. Joe Barton(R) is apologizing Wednesday for a sexually explicit photo now circulating online.
    In a statement released to The Dallas Morning News, the longtime Republican said the image — which first surfaced on social media earlier this week — was taken while separated from his former wife in recent years.

    Now I could care less about whither is junk is spread all over the internet. But there are a couple of things about the article that ring the hypocrite bell. First the affair occurred while he was separated from his second wife but not yet divorced. I believe Ray Moore has a commandment about that situation!!
    And note the second wife. Since he talks with Jesus all of the time didn’t the ‘what god has ordained let no man put asunder’ part of the wedding service come up in conversation. Now I can understand missing it the first time around but missing it for both wives. Maybe he should use his government paid health insurance to have a hearing check

    http://www.dallasnews.com/news.....ce=Twitter

  71. 71
    Joyce H says:

    Anyone planning to debate Trump supporters this Thanksgiving should be advised to make their points on roughly a second grade level. Since Trump has started yet another one of his childish, petulant, unpresidential Twitter feuds, this one against Levar BALL, his supporters are showing their devotion by sending angry tweets to Levar BURTON, the Star Trek: Next Gen and Reading Rainbow guy.

  72. 72
    Spanky says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Will this put a crimp in the Winter Olympics?

  73. 73
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Where in Sonoma?
    Heading to Santa Rosa as I type.

  74. 74
    The Moar You Know says:

    As is its wont, Fox News is ginning up outrage among the duct-taped naugahyde recliner set by highlighting godless liberals’ plans to persecute Trump supporters over turkey this year

    They won the motherfucking trifecta. I do not understand the constant tsunami of butthurt. For Christ’s sake, GOP, stop acting like victims. Celebrate. Spit in a liberal’s face. Cover your car in Confederate flags. Maybe you’ll stop being so fucking miserable and making me listen to your diarrhea of obvious inadequacy.

  75. 75
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Major Major Major Major: When I went to college (~10-15 years ago) that sort of class wasn’t required, but it WAS one of the options you could take for your GE credits. I ended up with a couple – an ancient philosophy course and a ‘history of western civilization and its architecture’ course.

    Both were simultaneously kind of useless to an engineer and also incredibly interesting.

    @TenguPhule: Trump relatives will almost certainly pick Trump over relatives. Because it’s easier to do that and not acknowledge what an asshole you’re being than to accept some responsibility.

  76. 76
    sharl says:

    Some reactions to today’s International Criminal court decision

    Current fave thing on twitter is seeing American Nazis defend Mladic because "he was defending Serbia from Muslim Invasion." Mladic committed genocide in Bosnia, against Bosnian Muslims (Bosniaks) , who are the indigenous people of that country.— Arnesa (@Rrrrnessa) November 22, 2017

    Sorry to destroy your dreams of a white Christian Europe, but Muslims have lived and been native to European countries far longer than your Nazi ideologies have existed.

    Of course that brings the Serbian nationalists into her mentions, to remind her of the perfidious Ottoman Turk invasions. Centuries ago? More like just yesterday, according to that lot.

    A friend tells me I should rejoice; Mladic is in jail and I get paid to lecture on the genocide. I get to tell the story of my people. I get to write. I get to love.— Arnesa (@Rrrrnessa) November 22, 2017

    I would much rather prefer not to have to spend the rest of my life teaching about genocide. I would much rather have the childhood that was taken from me, abruptly and without mercy.

    My life has been filled with grief. That is all I have. While I get to live now, and I get to dance, sing, be loved and love, raise a child away from the terror I experienced….there will always an emptiness I hold. I will always be shrouded with grief.

    I grew up with a sniper next to my building. That is the earliest memory I have. Running to get water and being shot at. A kid, a small malnourished, starved, terrified kid. Nothing will ever erase that.

    But at least I’m alive. I’m alive. I repeat those words. I am alive. Hundreds of thousands others are not. I am. May they Rest In Peace. May they never be forgotten. May those responsible for our torture burn in Hell for all eternity.

    Central Iowa is lucky to have her IMO. As for the anti-interventionist crowd – with whom I generally have a lot of sympathy – I wish they would have the courage of their supposed convictions, and acknowledge the possible consequences of doing nothing, rather than being cowards and retreating into genocide denialism and/or never-explained charges of supporting “capitalist imperialism” and whatnot.
    Meh, it is what it is…

  77. 77

    @Betty Cracker: I am with you. I don’t bring up politics or T but if someone defends cretinous right wing actions then I don’t let them go unchallenged. I have the same rule with my Whatsapp group in India. As a result I don’t get forwarded the junk husband kitteh gets because he is more live and let live type.

  78. 78
    Tata says:

    You don’t really have to spend time with people intent on haranguing and angering you. You can spend your day – any day, every day – with people who appreciate and respect you. You can tell your family you love them, but their behavior offends you. You will welcome them back into your life when they can honestly say they respect you, too.

    I haven’t spoken to my aunt or cousins since the election. It may just be that way. My holidays are peaceful.

  79. 79

    @Ruckus: Healdsburg

    @Tata: ding ding ding

  80. 80
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Spanky: I don’t know. Depends how far the fallout travels…//

  81. 81
    Spanky says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    diarrhea of obvious inadequacy

    While maybe not a good name for a band, I will be filing this away for future use.

  82. 82
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @The Moar You Know: There’s no money to be made if you admit you’ve won. Everything. There is a lot of money to be made by exploiting fear and grievance.

  83. 83
    PPCLI says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I looked at the listings of the faculty in his Department — there are several published experts in C19 English Romanticism, and one (part of a program in medieval studies) who does Chaucer and the Bible, and lists Dante as one of his interests. I assume in Romance Languages there would be a couple more Dante people. Bauerline apparently hasn’t bothered to look around the table at faculty meetings.

    I do observe that he did genuine scholarly work in the first few years after his 1988 PhD, but now just writes soft, unscholarly popular gas about those damned kids nowadays. (fx. The Dumbest Generation: How the Digital Age Stupefies Young Americans and Jeopardizes Our Future“)

    I have no problem getting my students excited about Nietzsche, or the Enlightenment, or Dante. Or even the overrated Edmund Burke. If Beuerline can’t manage to get his students engaged with quality material like that, with Emory -calibre students in the class, that’s not the students’ fault.

  84. 84
    JCJ says:

    @Droppy:

    RR: Why isn’t there a National Association for the Advancement of White People?

    Just reply, “There is. It is called the Republican Party.”

  85. 85
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    That guy came to our campus recently. My students recounted some of the things he said. Astoundingly stupid. Luckily I can’t remember any of them now.

  86. 86
    germy says:

    Dr. Hannity is back! Need advice on how to deal with you liberal relatives over the Thanksgiving holiday? Call into my radio show 800-941-7326.— Sean Hannity (@seanhannity) November 20, 2017

    Dear Dr. Hannity,If my dad's 32-year-old friend starts to molest my 14-year-old niece, how long should I wait before I knock him out with a gravy boat?Asking for millions of Americans who don't want #RoyMooreChildMolester in the Senate.#MondayMotivation https://t.co/e2LGIjA74w— Holly O'Reilly (@AynRandPaulRyan) November 20, 2017

  87. 87
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Ruckus: Nice! I’m going to be in Petaluma tomorrow. Small world, etc.

  88. 88
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Close, no cigar. Which is OK, cigars suck.

  89. 89
    Spanky says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Well, according to Google Maps Pyongyang is about 175 miles from the site of the Olympics in Pyeongchang County, South Korea. And with a prevalent winter wind from the NW, they could be smack dab in the middle of the radiation plume.

    On the bright side, everything will be festively glowing after sunset. And before sunset, for that matter.

  90. 90
    zhena gogolia says:

    I’m sad about Dmitri Hvorostovsky. Царствие ему небесное.

  91. 91
    zhena gogolia says:

    In moderation for Cyrillic. I’m sad about Dmitri Hvorostovsky. Tsarstvie emu nebesnoe.

  92. 92

    @PPCLI: I loved my Canterbury Tales and Old Norse professor, Seth Lerer. He was amazing. I see he is now at UCSD.

  93. 93
    eric says:

    @PPCLI: i used to teach a little Nietzsche in my intro class, and it was always a very popular section. We did the Madman aphorism while noting that the “speaker” was addressing the Market and not the Church, and we discussed the parallels to Job and one of the psalms (it escapes me). Most of the young people were authentically interested. We only briefly touched ubermensch. baby steps.

    Oddly (and by design), many were more troubled by the natural law implications of the Letter from the Birmingham City Jail and the notion of disobedience of earthly laws. (Particularly given an earlier section of the necessary individuality of the protestant revolution.)

    I miss being subtly subversive.

  94. 94
    James E. Powell says:

    @Steeplejack:

    Civilization’s going to pieces . . . The idea is if we don’t look out the white race will be – will be utterly submerged. It’s all scientific stuff; it’s been proved.

    Tom Buchanan, The Great Gatsby, Chapter 1.

  95. 95
    LurkerNoLonger says:

    @d58826: Rule of thumb for D*ck Pics, no one is interested unless it’s really big or super small. It’s like going to a 19th century freak show, no one is going there to see an average size person.

  96. 96

    @Ruckus: @MisterForkbeard: Wow, we could have a super secret meetup.

    When is there going to be a bay area meetup, anyway? It keeps just being me and Mnem and ruemara. And Mnem doesn’t even live here!

  97. 97
  98. 98
    zhena gogolia says:

    @PPCLI:

    And who the hell is deriding Dante????

  99. 99
    TenguPhule says:

    @Ruckus:

    Which is OK, cigars suck.

    Flip the instructions manual over.

  100. 100
    Steeplejack says:

    @James E. Powell:

    I figured. Just an odd way to tag a hyperlink with no additional context.

  101. 101
    Ruckus says:

    @germy:
    As an answer, I’d give 10 seconds as a maximum time, shorter if I was unable to ask what the fuck while counting.

  102. 102
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat: By the by, I ran across this little tidbit about an upcoming Netflix series:

    Streaming giant Netflix is teaming up with Bollywood superstar Shah Rukh Khan’s Red Chillies Entertainment to produce eight-episode political espionage series “Bard of Blood.”

    Based on the bestselling 2015 book of the same name by Bilal Siddiqi, the multilingual series, in Urdu, English, Hindi and other languages, is set in the Indian subcontinent. It will follow Kabir Anand, an expelled spy who is recalled from his new life as a Shakespeare professor to save his country and his long-lost love. The series will feature intricate, highly stylized action sequences.

    “We have always tried to create world-class content and entertainment from India,” Khan said. “Netflix has shown that Indian stories have a global audience, and we would love to use this platform and its reach to tell more stories.”

  103. 103
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @zhena gogolia: Sorry, I had Alain up the anti-Russian active measures protection protocol.//

    I’ve freed it!

  104. 104
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Доверяй, но проверяй.

  105. 105
    TenguPhule says:

    Trump could conceivably have handpicked more than 30% of the nation’s federal judges before the end of his first term, his advisers have suggested, and independent observers agree.

    Between Bush Jr and Trump, our judiciary is a mess.

  106. 106
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Joyce H:
    They all look the same anyway!

    But seriously, fuck them. Levar Burton is a nice guy from what I know about him and I liked TNG, damnnit.

  107. 107

    @Brachiator: Sounds pulpy, first time I heard of it.

  108. 108
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Steeplejack:
    I’m ashamed. I read that junior year of high school and I never caught the reference.

  109. 109
    The Moar You Know says:

    RR: Why isn’t there a National Association for the Advancement of White People?

    @Droppy: There was. My local shame, Tom Metzger, founded this back in the late 70s/early 80s and used it as a fundraising tool for his various Nazi activities, until three jackoffs who were members took it too far and beat a black man to death in Portland.

    The man’s survivors sued Metzger and after a long time, won. They got everything he had and he now lives in a shitty apartment in Fallbrook, mere minutes away from the large property he used to own there. Believe the SPLC got the rights to NAAWP and all their assets/IP.

  110. 110
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Major Major Major Major: If we have a meetup, I’ll be there. I think someone just has to declare that we’re having one.

    ETA: Alternately, if we’re already in the north bay there’s a decent beer garden in downtown petaluma that’s… well, it has a good beer selection and the food varies between excellent and “I think there’s some beef in my smoke”. But it’s got a ton of space, so it’s good for meetups.

    http://brewstersbeergarden.com/, if anyone’s ever interested. But I imagine anywhere in SF would be more central for bay area Juicers.

  111. 111
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @PPCLI: You remind me of Marshall McLuhan taking down that idiot NYU prof in Annie Hall.

  112. 112
    Steeplejack says:

    No Trumptards on my Thanksgiving horizon. Local family is blessedly free of them, and they have decamped to Rehoboth Beach for the holiday weekend. I’m not feeling the momentum building to drive down there and join them, so it’s going to be just the housecat and me in our modest rooms in Threadkill Lane.

    When I did my unexpectedly big grocery shopping run yesterday I bought, as an ironic, postmodern kind of joke, a Stouffer’s frozen dinner of turkey breast and mashed potatoes. I have other food on hand, but I might end up eating that tomorrow—in an ironic, postmodern kind of way, of course.

  113. 113
    TenguPhule says:

    Surprising nobody.

    Donald Trump appears to have headed straight to the golf course on the first day of his Thanksgiving trip to Mar-a-Lago in Florida – despite his staff insisting only an hour and a half earlier that he had “a full schedule of meetings and phone calls” all day.

    I still can’t get over how fast the fucking GOP somehow managed to normalize the laziest bastard on Earth.

  114. 114
    dexwood says:

    There will be no Trump Humping Chumps at our house this year. Just our son and his wife, both vocal, active liberals. A very simple turkey dinner, good beer and wine, followed by whatever cool board games the kids are currently playing. We are boycotting Thanksgiving dinner at another relative’s house for the second year. Fuck ’em. Following last year’s election, we are doing what we always wanted to do during the Bush years which is to stop keeping our mouths shut for the “sake of peace” in the family. One result of the policy is that my brother, and Mrs. dexwood’s sister, have disowned us. Good. I repeat, fuck ’em.

  115. 115
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    My sister is a trumpanzee, and an Alex Jones devotee as well. We have long since agreed never to bring up politics when we’re together. If she brings them up (what with some idiotic nonsense about mind control or chemtrails) I just politely let her ramble on for a bit without saying a word.

  116. 116
    Steeplejack says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    No problem. The link did sort of sound like the author was some guy named Tom Buchanan.

  117. 117
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @zhena gogolia: But of course!

  118. 118
    Thoughtful David says:

    @r€nato:
    “Many happy returns of the sun.”
    I mean that’s what a holiday placed on the winter solstice is about, no?

  119. 119
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Joyce H:

    Not only that, the two men spell their first names differently: its Lavar Ball but Levar Burton. Schmucks.

  120. 120

    Can someone explain what Western Civilization is a code for in the the Politico article?
    Even their beloved Jeebus was born in the East as was Buddha.

  121. 121
    Aleta says:

    Ate Thanksgiving dinner at a restaurant last year. It was relaxing and good. The mood in the room was cheerful.

  122. 122
    Aleta says:

    @Mnemosyne: Everyone knows spelling is a trick.

  123. 123
    zhena gogolia says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    A standard course that used to be offered by lazy professors.

  124. 124

    @schrodingers_cat: It’s white civilization, specifically that of some white people they selected specifically for being either conservative (Burke) or easy to spin as conservative (Chaucer) or assholes (Nietzsche, Emerson).

  125. 125
    Brachiator says:

    @TenguPhule:

    I still can’t get over how fast the fucking GOP somehow managed to normalize the laziest bastard on Earth.

    Especially since these same fools galvanized their idiot supporters into constantly complaining about how Obama took too many vacations and played too much golf.

    The big lie is that Trump as a white man, is so great that he has no problems presidenting while golfing.

  126. 126

    @zhena gogolia: How do you define the West? Where is the origin (in the Cartesian sense) of this world? What about Russia?

  127. 127
    Cacti says:

    @sharl:

    Speaking of international tribunals, a changing of the guard has taken place.

    For the first time in the 71 year history of the International Court of Justice, the Brits are not represented on the bench.

    Sitting ICJ member Sir Christopher Greenwood conceded defeat in a runoff to Dalveer Bhandari of India.

    Big story across the pond, as the former empire laments further erosion of its standing in the world.

  128. 128

    @Cacti: Fuck the British (and their Empire).
    ETA: FWIW I have no idea as to the relative merits of the two individuals mentioned.

  129. 129
    zhena gogolia says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Russia isn’t usually included. I never taught such a course. I think the idea is that it’s Greco-Roman civilization handed down to France, Germany, and England, with a little detour into Italy for a while in the 14th-15th centuries.

  130. 130

    @zhena gogolia:Sounds like some BS cooked up by Victorians to justify their rampaging across the globe and continued by their lazy intellectual heirs.

    ETA: I remember that Sully was fond of that term.

  131. 131
    Cacti says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Fuck the British (and their Empire).
    ETA: FWIW I have no idea as to the relative merits of the two individuals mentioned.

    I don’t know much about their relative merits either.

    Apparently to win the seat, a candidate needed a majority of both the security council and the general assembly. Greenwood won the security council vote 9-5, but lost the general assembly vote 68-121. Seeing that the popular will was substantially against him, he conceded after the 11th round of voting.

  132. 132
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    FWIW I have no idea as to the relative merits of the two individuals mentioned.

    Christopher Greenwood is the fuckwad who wrote the legal piece “The Legality of Using Force Against Iraq”.

    Dalveer Bhandari appears very well qualified.

  133. 133
  134. 134
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodingers_cat: What we consider the Liberal Arts tradition and canon of literature was developed as the instructional program in the medieval period for the sons of the nobility. Both those that would inherit title and rule, and those who would inherit name and serve as civilian and military leaders and advisors. It was rooted in what we would now call ancient political thought/theory, which in this case refers to the Greco-Roman tradition with a bit of the ancient Judaic/Hebraic/Israelite thrown in, as well as a fair amount of thought from the Roman Catholic (Western) Church. There is a break with the reformation and the enlightenment leading to what we refer to as modern political thought/theory (still largely confined to Europe). This includes Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau, Hume, Neitzche, and a number of others. It was not part of the original Liberal Arts curricula for obvious temporal reasons. All of this is, of course, very euro-centric.

  135. 135

    @TenguPhule: Thanks. Google tells me that he served on India’s Supreme Court.
    ETA: Greenwood can go fuck himself.

  136. 136
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    It’s not nice to say this, but there’s a famous photo of Phil Spector at his murder trial, wearing a wig that looked rather like Faye Gary’s hair.

  137. 137
    Amir Khalid says:

    I r in moderation. Halp!

  138. 138
    Adam L Silverman says:

  139. 139
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Amir Khalid: Freed!

  140. 140
    Brachiator says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    This includes Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau, Hume, Neitzche, and a number of others. It was not part of the original Liberal Arts curricula for obvious temporal reasons. All of this is, of course, very euro-centric.

    The fun thing is that you can pitch the Liberal Arts curricula without including a single American writer or thinker.

    @zhena gogolia:

    Russia isn’t usually included. I never taught such a course. I think the idea is that it’s Greco-Roman civilization handed down to France, Germany, and England, with a little detour into Italy for a while in the 14th-15th centuries.

    True enough. And this is absurd since it omits Pushkin, Gogol, Tolstoy, among others.

  141. 141
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I believe that photo shows Trump groping the turkey’s ass.

  142. 142
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Interesting thing I once read about the Tudors: one of the sources of disagreement between Queen Mary (aka “Bloody Mary”) and her half-sister Elizabeth was that Mary was educated using Roman philosophers, whereas the Greeks were more fashionable by the time Elizabeth was being educated (plus they were favored by Protestants).

  143. 143
    sharl says:

    @Cacti: I don’t know anything about these folks, but grateful it wasn’t a Saudi or other official from a homicidal thugocracy.

    I just saw today that the Brexit-related future budget for UK’s Foreign Office is going to be hit hard, so maybe it’s time anyway for the Brits to enjoy their new FREEDOM! (as we are enjoying ours)

    Bombshell for Foreign Office in small print of budget red book – 40 PER CENT BUDGET CUT in ONE year pic.twitter.com/sd48qgbQNX— John Woodcock (@JWoodcockMP) November 22, 2017

  144. 144
    Cacti says:

    @Brachiator:

    True enough. And this is absurd since it omits Pushkin, Gogol, Tolstoy, among others.

    Western Europe has thought of Eastern Europe/Russia as something different at least since the great schism of 1054.

  145. 145

    @Adam L Silverman: What, no Darwin and Newton? Without science there would not have been western European conquest of everyone else. Isn’t that what people like Spencer and T, worship. What was superior about the west was not their philosophy or civilization but their war making abilities.

  146. 146
    Brachiator says:

    @Cacti:

    Western Europe has thought of Eastern Europe/Russia as something different at least since the great schism of 1054.

    And yet Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky and Gogol are more central to modern literature than are some Western Europeans.

  147. 147
    George Spiggott says:

    @Spanky:

    @The Moar You Know:

    diarrhea of obvious inadequacy

    While maybe not a good name for a band, I will be filing this away for future use.

    You could always open for the Butthole Surfers.

  148. 148
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Brachiator: Correct.

  149. 149
    Elizabelle says:

    @Amir Khalid: what in hell could be wrong w someone’s head that that wig improves it? The wig is a crime in itself.

    Phil Spector. Another American who will not be enjoying a homecooked turkey 🦃 dinner tomorrow.

  150. 150
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: I had not heard that, but I suppose it makes logical sense.

  151. 151
    ruemara says:

    @Emma: I can do that without batting an eyelash. Side with the Nazi? Good. Kindly go fuck yourself with a cattle prod.

  152. 152
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Memns and I live about 10 miles from each other.
    We lost signal on the train for a while, anything new and disgusting happen?

  153. 153
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Did Darwin and Newton write political theory/philosophy? Also, my recounting of authors was not meant to be exhaustive.

  154. 154
    StringOnAStick says:

    @Tata:

    You don’t really have to spend time with people intent on haranguing and angering you. You can spend your day – any day, every day – with people who appreciate and respect you.

    Thank you. I would hate to total up what I have spent on therapy over the years in order to get to this conclusion; the last round was this summer and I think I can finally make it stick. My parents are right wing jerks who were John Birchers from many decades ago, if not card-carrying then damned well close enough. For our first 20 years together my husband and I would do the difficult 5 hour drive over the Rockies, walking on eggshells the entire time around both them least we mention a Wrong Think idea, and then the required dinner with my oldest sister the Southern Baptist Jew-hater who refused to acknowledge my Jewish husband’s very existence. The last 4 years we haven’t gone because the whole phony “family” crap with these people just sucks and I won’t subject my wonderful, kindhearted husband to their crap anymore. My folks are getting old, but they’re also more hate-filled than ever thanks to 24/7 FOX on cable. My last visit there involved my mother trying with every conversation to pick a fight based on whatever FOX had her hopped up on that day.

    My husband lost both his dad and his brother last year; his dad was the parent I never had. He was supportive, interested in what we were doing and loved a good intellectual discussion; I loved him very much. My husband’s brother was a good man who died too young. That year led us both to the conclusion that life is too short to spend it doing things you don’t enjoy with people who are looking for any excuse to scream at you because you don’t share their beliefs. All I needed that last round of therapy for was for independent, professional confirmation that I wasn’t being a bad person because I didn’t feel guilty for not being involved with the parents that failed to protect me from Moore-like predators not just once, but twice. Hell, the last one was some guy they didn’t even know at the bar that they asked to “make sure she gets home all right” while I was in the bathroom. I’m done pretending they have excellent parenting skills. Let the oldest sister deal with them, they can enjoy their mutual admiration of O’Lielly and Rushbo together.

    Instead, my lovely husband and I are going to have some nice turkey tonight and go for a nice long hike tomorrow. In between all that we will keep enjoying our pair of 9 week old play-crazy kittens. Now THAT’S a holiday!

  155. 155
    Kathleen says:

    @JustRuss: I commented that “The New York Times, Washington Post and NPR wants to hear your story”.

  156. 156
    Kathleen says:

    @Aleta: Played by elite latte swilling out of touch coastal liberals to humiliate real heartland Americans. Did I miss anything?

  157. 157
    JAFD says:

    For Mr. Bauerlein to use Trump’s Warsaw speech as a touchstone shows truly amazing ignorance. The Poles fought to free themselves from Russian – and other – domination for two hundred years, at home and in exile – “Za naszą i waszą wolność”, and earned their NATO membership in ’39 and ’44, ’53 and ’83. They believe the Western Alliance has meant security for their country.

    Poles, both of their land and of Polonia (the Polish diaspora) see Donald Trump’s courting of Russia, and tearing down of NATO, as an existential threat to their country, and reacted to his Warsaw speech with ‘look at his deeds, not his words”.

  158. 158
    Tehanu says:

    @Steeplejack:

    I would love to hear him expand on his premise that the braying vulgarian Trump is some Hellenic exemplar of Western civilization.

    Well, he is, if you count (1) the Athenians who voted to feed Socrates hemlock, (2) the Spartan ruling class, and (3) St. Timothy, author of the sexist crap commonly attributed to St. Paul.

  159. 159

    @Adam L Silverman: I see Newton and Darwin as emblematic of the scientific revolution which was what was instrumental in propelling the countries of western Europe ahead of the earlier centers of civilization.

  160. 160
    Daddio7 says:

    In the primaries Trump only got 40% of the vote, most Republican voters did not want him. In the general election less people voted for Trump than voted for Romney. What they did do was not vote for the Democratic candidate, as did millions of voters who had voted for Obama. Trump is not great, but he president and Hillary is not, and that is enough.

  161. 161
    efgoldman says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Our Thanksgiving promises to have large quantities of food and wine and zero Trump support

    mrs efg’s oldest brother dies about 27 months ago. She loved him, they were close, and he was her protector, but I’m not sad he won’t be with us. I told her ~20 years ago that the racist, alcoholic, gun humping sumbitch wasn’t welcome in our house. If he had lived to see Mango Mophead in the WH you’d have heard him cackle all the way from the Harley factory.

    I guess I’ve been off the grid. It turns out, being rehabilitated from disabled status is damned hard labor and extremely time consuming. Kids coming in tomorrow – I have more important things to do than howl at the jackals.

  162. 162
    J R in WV says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Christopher Greenwood is the fuckwad who wrote the legal piece “The Legality of Using Force Against Iraq”.

    If that isn’t all you need to know!

  163. 163
    J R in WV says:

    WE won’t have any Trumpeters at our Thanksgiving day feast. The family around us will be our close neighbors and friends, those we would call on in an emergency. Those who care about us, and about their country.

    I do have some cousins that I still feel close to, but they don’t reach out to me much. That’s a little sad sometimes. In our youth we seemed close, and I try to keep in touch with them.

  164. 164
    Marcia says:

    ” Insist on setting a place for Robert Mueller, the way Jews do for Elijah on Passover.”

    The Husband and I now eat out on Thanksgiving — wish I’d heard of/thought of that one, though we’re blessed by not having to talk with anyone at the buffet feast except the server bringing our wine and coffee.

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