Monday, the Video

Amazing. This will go down in TWC history.






297 replies
  1. 1

    Oh my, that’s hilarious.

    I feel like an extremely low-budget movie (or one pretending to be) could make use of this one weird trick.

  2. 2
    aimai says:

    “spot a stroke, fast!” as your weather channel has it, live.

  3. 3
    jl says:

    Thanks. CNN-on-the-scene reporting worthy gold there.

    Edit: If only Leslie Nielsen were still with us. He could have played the reporter for it.

  4. 4
    Manyakitty says:

    Such Monday

  5. 5
    Tom says:

    @aimai: I saw the Atlanta – Carolina game in December 2015 with my son Scott in that Dome. Great memories of the Falcons beating the previously undefeated Panthers in a stunning upset. Kudos to TWC for an epic fail.

  6. 6
    Gin & Tonic says:

    There’s a bunch of people on the other side of the street. Why didn’t they put their camera there?

  7. 7
    oatler. says:

    When Buildings Explode- “room for one more…”

  8. 8
    Peale says:

    If you ever wondered how David Copperfield made the great wall disappear, watch this video and unlock the secrets of the trade.

  9. 9
    CaseyL says:

    Thanks for the belly laugh!

    …the best part is how the bus pulled away in time to see nothing more than the billowing smoke.

  10. 10
    Ric Drywall says:

    So do we want to have a conversation about why the Weather Channel is trying to cover building implosions? Is it sort of like the Arts & Entertainment network running Duck Dynasty?

  11. 11
    Mary G says:

    Are the beeps the camera person cursing? It’s fun to imagine the words getting louder and dirtier as the bus sits there.

  12. 12
    Peale says:

    @Gin & Tonic: My guess is they wanted the people in the shot. And they probably figured the street would actually be closed.

  13. 13
    Brachiator says:

    Amazing. This will go down in TWC history.

    I loved this story.

  14. 14
    ruemara says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Space, shoving people out of the area, framing the entire dome in the shot.

    @Mary G: Probably. Or the field producer.

  15. 15

    Completely OT: Apparently Edward Herman died last week. I knew him mainly through his later ventures into genocide denial, so while I don’t really celebrate his death I don’t lament it either.

    Also, Twitter is apparently debating over whether we should be celebrating Manson’s death.

  16. 16
    JPL says:

    Thanks for the video! lol The local news channels started covering the event days ago, and I was at the point of just blow it up already. We now have a very expensive stadium, that they will implode in another twenty years. It’s what we do.

  17. 17
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @ruemara: Professional video camera lenses are fixed focal length?

  18. 18
    JPL says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Jana Novotna and Della Reese died today also, so I chose to ignore Manson’s death.

  19. 19
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mary G: I thought the first few bleeps were “fucks” that were bleeped out, but the beeps toward the end didn’t seem to be timed right for that, so who knows?

  20. 20
  21. 21
    Brachiator says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):

    Apparently Edward Herman died last week.

    Edward Hermann died in 2014.

  22. 22
    Mike J says:

    @Mike J: Edward S. Herman from Wharton died Nov 11 of this year though. Nevermind.

  23. 23
    Shrillhouse says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):

    Um, who’s “winning” the “debate”?…

  24. 24

    Now that’s what I call some bad timing.

    Anybody know anything more about the latest Franken thing? I really don’t want to see him go, but I don’t know how many more of these things he can weather before he has to give up his seat. The times, they are a-changing…

  25. 25
    mike in dc says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
    I’d put the over/under at 3. Though “he grabbed my butt during a photo” ranks lower than the first allegation. And the proof outside of the account is nonexistent.

  26. 26
    TenguPhule says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    Anybody know anything more about the latest Franken thing?

    Less evidence then the first accusation.

    And accepting her narrative forces us to conclude that not only was she a stellar actress during the shot who showed absolutely no hint of anger.discomfort, shame or disgust, her husband is also stupid, blind or a moron or all of the above given he was the one taking their picture this time.

  27. 27
    Brachiator says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    Anybody know anything more about the latest Franken thing? I really don’t want to see him go, but I don’t know how many more of these things he can weather before he has to give up his seat. The times, they are a-changing…

    I’m holding out for a prisoner exchange. Trump for Franken.

  28. 28
    WaterGirl says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Are you kidding me? Some woman says he grabbed her butt cheek while posing for a photo with her husband at the state fair?

    You guys need to get some perspective on this stuff! There’s not a woman alive who hasn’t got an inadvertent hand on the butt posing for a photo or a brush across the boob.

    Get back to me when it’s rape or attempted rape and not a staged photo (in poor taste) and a most likely made up “he squeezed my butt cheeks in front of my husband and I never said a word”.

  29. 29

    @mike in dc:

    How do over/unders work? Does that mean there’s a 3 out of 10 shot that he stays? Or a 3 out of 10 shot that he goes? Or something else? I don’t know a lot about how betting works.

  30. 30
    TenguPhule says:

    @mike in dc: Doesn’t set a pattern either. The stories are of significantly different behaviors. Normally serials follow a certain rhythm.

  31. 31
    TenguPhule says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): If there’s a third accuser who’s credible, then his credibility starts to come into question.

    Until then, benefit of the doubt.

  32. 32
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Ya know, I’m trying to be woke and trusting women on all things sex, gender, and sexuality, but for fuck’s sake “OMG Al Franken touched my butt one time” is just fucking ridiculous.

  33. 33
    Emma says:

    As I said in the thread below. Unless the Democrats stand up and fight this Franken stuff, every Democratic organization, from the DNC on down, can whistle for my money. It’s time to fight like weasels and we run scared while the enemy is destroying our country.

  34. 34
    WaterGirl says:

    @mike in dc: I was so frustrated during last week- at all the “he touched her breasts” talk last week – when he obviously didn’t and it was obviously staged – that I came very close to posting links to fainting couches on Amazon.

    Our side needs to get a grip.

  35. 35
    Mnemosyne says:

    @WaterGirl:

    There’s not a woman alive who hasn’t got an inadvertent hand on the butt posing for a photo or a brush across the boob.

    Yup. And I still can’t tell from her story if she’s alleging that it was an actual grab or an uh, does he realize that’s my ass and not my back?

  36. 36
    Aleta says:

    Nice timing for the people on the bus. Made somebody’s day.

  37. 37
    WaterGirl says:

    @Emma: I wish everyone who feels this way would call Al Franken’s offices as I did and leave a message that says “don’t even think abut stepping down”.

  38. 38
    Schlemazel says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
    “I have read some obituaries with great pleasure.”

    I expect his funeral to be huge. Give the people what they want & they will turn out.

  39. 39
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Aleta:

    It’s the bleeped-out curses of the producer that really make it work for me. 😂

  40. 40
    TenguPhule says:

    @WaterGirl:

    that I came very close to posting links to fainting couches on Amazon.

    They still make fainting couches? I thought those went out of vogue when we came out of the Victorian age.

  41. 41
    Emma says:

    And in addition, we’re fighting the wrong enemy. Democrats need to take the fight to the media every time. They have been cowed and are terrified of the Republicans? Let them fear us for a change.

  42. 42

    @Mnemosyne:Its funny how its mostly men, who are having the huffiest reaction to allegations about Franken.

  43. 43
    mike in dc says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
    Over/under sets a median number/score, and you can bet on a number under or over that median. In this case, I think 3 incidents is the point at which Franken’s tenure becomes an open question.

  44. 44
    jl says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I’m not going to waste time worrying about what should happen with Franken. There is an ethics process for him in Congress, and let that play out. If Moore is elected, we need to press for a similar process for him and let that play out. If something seems wrong with that process, then criticize that.

    @mike in dc: No. That’s mob justice and to hell with it. And BTW, if you think going in that direction is not going to wind up with ruthless GOPers manipulating who is in trouble and who gets away with outrageous shit, you are very naive.

  45. 45

    @Aleta: A little too nice, if you ask me!

    @schrodingers_cat: Right?

  46. 46
    Schlemazel says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
    This second one is pure bullshit. You can clearly see Franken’s hands in the photo & it is not a picture of her ass or boobs.

  47. 47
    Repatriated says:

    @TenguPhule: It’s Amazon. They have everything.

  48. 48
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    One does wonder if the bus driver really wanted to see the implosion but had to work that day. 🤔

  49. 49
    aimai says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I do trust women, but I don’t trust republicans.

  50. 50

    @mike in dc:

    Ah, that makes sense. I think you’re most likely right. Thank you.

  51. 51
    Mary G says:

    @Brachiator: I just keep saying this. If Trump isn’t resigning, neither should Al. I love Paul Waldman in the WaPo, but he wrote a column today that Al should resign to show we are better than them. I vehemently disagree.

  52. 52
    WaterGirl says:

    @mike in dc: You forgot to add LEGITIMATE and sexual assault. You can show me 100 ass pat accusations or grabs and I wouldn’t want him to run again – but I wouldn’t want me to resign. I don’t believe the photo at the state fair issue.

  53. 53
  54. 54
    TenguPhule says:

    @Repatriated:

    It’s Amazon. They have everything.

    Dear Amazon, do you have spinal transplants for Democratic Politicians available? Y/N

  55. 55
    Mnemosyne says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    INORITE? Geez, guys, calm down. We are resigned to you sometimes being a little immature, so you don’t have to freak out that much over the photo to prove you would never do something that dopey.

  56. 56

    @Mnemosyne: you made it back home ok, I take it.

  57. 57
    Anotherlurker says:

    The demolition shot was wonderful!
    from 1980 to 2015 I worked in TV, as a tech. I can just hear the chatter on the comms to Master Control!
    Priceless!
    I don’t know how to share it, but there is a classic Audio Recording of things Going South, in a TV Truck. Go to youtube and look for “What is going on in Tape?” WARNING: it is NSFW places.

  58. 58
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Mary G:

    Franken has some decent seniority on the Justice committee in the Senate that would probably elevate him if the Democrats took the Senate. That’s what makes this whole thing a little stinky to me.

  59. 59
    Fair Economist says:

    The reporters didn’t realize it at the time but that shot is MUCH more entertaining than one of the Georgia dome going down. It was a win-win, actually.

  60. 60
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Yep — I made the nice people from Southwest take me to my gate in a wheelchair. Golden Gate Park was really nice — you should go sometime!

  61. 61
    jl says:

    There are thousands or women, and girls and boys, working away in this country who are subject to abuse and exploitation every day. They are not ‘lucky’; enough to be the targets of an abuser like Moore (and maybe if more stories come out, like Franken). What about them? They are doomed to fend for themselves in complete obscurity.

    I think more attention should be given to working for a process that protects those who come forward in good faith, and also, provides fair judgement of the accused, and determines a just and proportional punishment. Like, how about addressing the outrageous procedure that Congress has that I think persecutes those who come forward with accusations?

    And also, if we go the direction of mob justice on this, if anyone thinks the ruthless GOP and Trumpsters will not manipulate it to persecute Democrats and protect their own, those people are absolutely nuts.

    Edit: this is a social problem, and our society needs to figure out a mechanism to address it, and all the stories that will come out about it. What was acceptable once is acceptable no longer. That is a very good thing. But what to do about it. Mob justice is not the way to go, and I think that is the way it is going.

  62. 62
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mnemosyne: @Major Major Major Major: How was your brunch?

  63. 63
    Mnemosyne says:

    @sharl:

    It’s apparently an open secret that Rose has a pretty serious drinking problem, so I bet he ducks into rehab pretty shortly.

  64. 64

    @WaterGirl: Not to mention she was wearing body armor.

  65. 65

    @Mnemosyne:

    Golden Gate Park was really nice — you should go sometime!

    Never heard of it. That some tourist thing?

  66. 66

    @sharl: I called it when Halperin’s abuse became public. Rose was one Halperin’s biggest promoters.

  67. 67
    Emma says:

    @jl: Moore and Franken are not FREAKING EQUIVALENT! For God’s sake, if we make every sexual transgression equal, you know what will happen? The punishment will shift down to the lowest possible sentence.

  68. 68
    WaterGirl says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Absolutely! Should have included that. I would (sort of) seriously like to slap some people upside the head for overreactions to all this.

  69. 69
    sharl says:

    @Mnemosyne: My impression from earlier today was that Glenn Thrush was also leaning on the alcohol/substance abuse excuse as well, though I’ll admit I haven’t kept up.

    Rose’s longtime executive producer Yvette Vega also comes out looking really bad in that thoroughly researched/reported WaPo piece, and the fact that she’s not denying any of the charges – in fact admitting that she ‘should have done more’ – is worth a few extra nails in the coffin, so to speak.

  70. 70

    @Brachiator: @Mike J: I’m talking about Edward S. Herman, the coauthor of Chomsky’s Manufacturing Consent. Not the actor.

  71. 71

    @Major Major Major Major: @Mnemosyne: They doth protest too much, our Victorian gentlemen.

  72. 72
    Mnemosyne says:

    @WaterGirl:

    It was fun, though San Francisco is not a good place to be when you’re on crutches. 😢

  73. 73
    Fair Economist says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    Not to mention she was wearing body armor.

    I assumed that was the point of the joke of the (obviously staged) photo – why grope somebody through body armor? (I know IRL there can be reasons, but it’s a joke to most people.)

  74. 74
    germy says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    It’s apparently an open secret that Rose has a pretty serious drinking problem, so I bet he ducks into rehab pretty shortly.

    I didn’t know that. All I knew about him is that he had heart surgery recently, and has his own table at “21”.

  75. 75
    No Drought No More says:

    That’s like a fan who video tapes a big game to watch later, and someone inadvertently mentions the final score just as they begin to watch.

  76. 76
    jl says:

    @Emma: I agree. That is why we need a process for these cases.

    If Democrats are eager to pass public social media judgement on what should happen in every case that comes out, I can guarantee you that GOP and Trumpsters will manipulate it. That may be going on right now with Franken, or it may not. Just like Moore, i’m not gong to pass judgement in the early stages of a story like this.

  77. 77
    Elay Fargone says:

    Still shows that if you want a front row seat, take public transportation. Viva el bus!

  78. 78
    Barbara says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    It’s apparently an open secret that Rose has a pretty serious drinking problem, so I bet he ducks into rehab pretty shortly.

    That explains a lot, actually. I have always found it next to impossible to watch one of his interviews and I could never put my finger on exactly why that is. It’s because his mannerisms are suggestive of having had a few too many at dinner. I can’t stand being around people who are inebriated. Can’t. Stand. It.

  79. 79
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Emma:

    Talk about defining deviancy down …

  80. 80
    Fair Economist says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I called it when Halperin’s abuse became public. Rose was one Halperin’s biggest promoters.

    That part is pretty creepy. That there is a “abusive boys club” promoting each other into media power is pretty horrifying. Although, it does help explain the bad quality of our media. Now I wonder if something is going on at the NYT.

  81. 81
    TenguPhule says:

    @Emma:

    For God’s sake, if we make every sexual transgression equal, you know what will happen? The punishment will shift down to the lowest possible sentence.

    Feature, not a bug.

  82. 82
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @JPL:

    When they blew up the old Omni arena, we threw a party at the Consulate, which had a great view.

    (My memory might be faulty. Might have been the old Rich’s — I think maybe we would have been too close to the Omni. But whatever it was, it was a fine satisfying boom.)

  83. 83
    HeleninEire says:

    So today is the 43th anniversary of my mom’s death. I am not sad. In fact me and my sister are texting back and forth about the fun times and how funny mommy could be. I get sad on her birthday; Sept. 22. She would be 80 this year. SHUT UP, I am not old. My nephew (who never met her) recently referred to her as Grandma. Freaked me out.

    But goddamn time flies. I tell people all the time how old I am. I think that’s because I can’t believe I made it to 55. And she only made it to 37.

  84. 84
    germy says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    That’s what makes this whole thing a little stinky to me

    Lindsay Menz @LindsayMenz
    .@Liz_Wheeler in 2010 @alfranken grabbed me while taking a photo together at the Minnesota State Fair. There have to be many others… don’t let this story fade.

    I’m glad Franken called for a full investigation. If they don’t want to “let this story fade” give them the chance to testify.

  85. 85
    jl says:

    I also think that the vile behavior of the AL and other parts of GOP and Fox News in defaming Moore’s accusers has gotten too little attention. That is a rottenness that deserves as much condemnation as what Moore, very very probably, with very credible allegations did.

    But everyone is too busy trying to pass final judgment the second a story breaks to worry about it, I guess.

  86. 86
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Fair Economist:

    Now I wonder if something is going on at the NYT.

    Given that it now looks like the NYT was complicit in covering up for Harvey Weinstein, I wouldn’t be surprised.

  87. 87
    Mnemosyne says:

    @germy:

    I agree with Franken — let’s have the Senate Ethics Committee investigate.

  88. 88
    Barbara says:

    @jl: When I was in the 10th grade, three things happened to me. Once, I was in the bathroom at a party and my friend’s boyfriend opened the door and did a double take and then apologized and left (but looked, iykwim). Then, while babysitting, I fell asleep on the couch, and was awakened by the dad, who squeezed my thigh a lot more than was necessary to wake me up. And once more, while dropping off something for a friend at the house of his uncle, his uncle tried to block my way out of the house as he undid his pants. The first two were annoying (especially the second). The third was hair raising and frightening. Details matter.

  89. 89
    WaterGirl says:

    @germy:

    give them the chance to testify.

    UNDER OATH.

  90. 90
    Brachiator says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):

    I’m talking about Edward S. Herman, the coauthor of Chomsky’s Manufacturing Consent. Not the actor.

    Wasn’t sure if you were talking about the actor, the writer or the mixed martial artist (who is still alive).

    And obviously, I got stopped at the name and didn’t read the rest of the sentence. Oddly enough, the actor pops up first in a google search, even if you spell the name correctly.

  91. 91
    Cacti says:

    @sharl:

    The reports are coming fast and furious:
    Eight women say Charlie Rose sexually harassed them — with nudity, groping and lewd calls

    It’s becoming increasingly apparent why so many in the media were so soft on the groping accusations against Trump.

    Old boys club indeed.

  92. 92
    jl says:

    @Barbara: I was groped a couple of times too, as a kid. It happens to boys too. This misbehavior is common, sadly.

  93. 93
    WaterGirl says:

    If people want to make a stink out of these two nothing-burgers with Al Franken, then I think EVERY elected official at the state and national level should be investigated. I’m not sure there would even be a last man standing if we care about a tasteless bit of humor and a butt brush during a photo.

    For republicans who are trying to use this as a political issue – and care nothing about women – I hope this all comes around to bite them all in the ass with investigations. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

  94. 94
    rikyrah says:

    BWA HA HA HA HA HA 😄

  95. 95
    gene108 says:

    @Emma:

    Democrats need to take the fight to the media every time. They have been cowed and are terrified of the Republicans? Let them fear us for a change.

    The media is scared of Republicans, because Republican sugar-daddies sign their paychecks. There aren’t enough billionaires, who are rabidly Democratic enough to sink their fortunes into media enterprises, think tanks, etc., in order to set the tone for debating issues in this country.

  96. 96
    Emma says:

    @Mnemosyne: And people don’t seem to get it. If the penalty is the same for imbecile behavior as for assault, juries will use that as an excuse to not convict. The honest ones will be truly afraid of handing out too much punishment and the misogynists will use it as an excuse.

  97. 97
    WaterGirl says:

    @Barbara: I’m sorry that happened to you.

    Details matter.

    Indeed they do. Perspective, people.

  98. 98
    TenguPhule says:

    White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders added a new, holiday-themed prerequisite for reporters wanting to ask a question at the daily briefing.

    They had to say what they’re thankful for before she would take their questions Monday.

    Sanders opened the last briefing before Thanksgiving by saying she was thankful for her family, her faith, members of the military, first responders and the chance to serve.

    She said “it’s only fair” that reporters also say what they’re thankful for. Most reporters played along. A few just asked their questions. Some said they were thankful for the First Amendment.

    I hate these fuckers so much for destroying so many social norms.

  99. 99
    buckguy says:

    Atlanta is the city that doesn’t work. I was so happy to leave. Nothing functions very well there or in its environs.

  100. 100
    Barbara says:

    @jl: Yes, and I think that common experience can help build empathy for those who experience any kind of abuse, but it is not useful and actually somewhat dangerous to lump every drunken grope with a sustained pattern of isolating women alone and then coercing (or more than coercing) them into sexual contact or punishing them professionally. Or even not punishing them but forcing them to endure it as a condition of employment. Or equating skeevy (but arguably not coercive) behavior directed at adults with the same behavior directed at much younger girls. Etc.

  101. 101
    Emma says:

    @gene108: Then we have to use voting as a hammer. Democrats have got to stop being holier-than-thou and vote for the Democrats every time no matter what. Republicans are unclean creatures from Cthulhu’s realm but they stick to their own. NO MATTER WHAT.

  102. 102

    How did Rose cover the whole p grabbing incident, asking because I stopped watching the drunk bastard years ago.

  103. 103
    sharl says:

    Now that Ashley Feinberg spotlighted this recent tweet, expect bad online jokes in response in 3…2…1

    Congratulations to our very own @CharlieRose, who received the Dana Foundation's inaugural "public outreach award." 🎉 pic.twitter.com/gQxWQxelMU— CBS This Morning (@CBSThisMorning) November 13, 2017

  104. 104
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Women (mostly) know the difference between assault and accidental brushing/touching. Kind of the way a cat seems to know the difference between a baby pulling its tail in all innocence/ignorance, and a bully deliberately pulling its tail to hurt it.

  105. 105
    Aleta says:

    The battle for control of Virginia’s House of Delegates turned even more messy Monday after the state’s top election official said a significant election problem occurred in the Fredericksburg area that may have affected the outcome of one of a handful of extremely tight House races.

    Commissioner of Elections Edgardo Cortés said at least 83 voters were incorrectly assigned to the wrong House district in Fredericksburg, prompting the State Board of Elections to delay certifying election results for two house districts.

    Depending on the scope of the error, the issue could potentially trigger special elections as Republicans try to hold onto a slim 51-49 majority after getting hammered Nov. 7 in a wave election that saw Democrats pick up at least 15 House seats. In the 28th District, currently represented by retiring House Speaker William J. Howell, R-Stafford, Republican Bob Thomas leads Democrat Joshua Cole by 82 votes. If that district’s outcome were to flip, the House would have a 50-50 party split.

    The exact cause and scope of the ballot problems – which centered on Fredericksburg’s Charles and Charlotte streets – were not immediately clear. The former Fredericksburg registrar who apparently oversaw the erroneous changes in 2016 died earlier this year.

    Cortés said the state is currently working to determine how many of the 83 identified voters actually cast a ballot in this year’s elections.

    -Richmond Times-Dispatch

  106. 106

    @TenguPhule: meh.

    Most reporters played along. A few just asked their questions. Some said they were thankful for the First Amendment.

    Nothingburger, as they say.

  107. 107
    TenguPhule says:

    @Aleta:

    The former Fredericksburg registrar who apparently oversaw the erroneous changes in 2016 died earlier this year.

    Unless that person was very old, I’d be interested in the autopsy.

  108. 108
    debbie says:

    Can’t decide which is more hilarious, the bus blockage or the cursing. i didn’t know they were allowed to do that on The Weather Channel.

  109. 109
    jk says:

    OT

    CBS This Morning co-anchor Charlie Rose today became the latest high-profile media personality to be accused of sexual harassment, according to a report in the Washington Post. Rose also offered an apology for his behavior.

    Charlie’s apology

    In my 45 years in journalism, I have prided myself on being an advocate for the careers of the women with whom I have worked. Nevertheless, in the past few days, claims have been made about my behavior toward some former female colleagues. “It is essential that these women know I hear them and that I deeply apologize for my inappropriate behavior. I am greatly embarrassed. I have behaved insensitively at times, and I accept responsibility for that, though I do not believe that all of these allegations are accurate. I always felt that I was pursuing shared feelings, even though I now realize I was mistaken. I have learned a great deal as a result of these events, and I hope others will too. All of us, including me, are coming to a newer and deeper recognition of the pain caused by conduct in the past, and have come to a profound new respect for women and their lives.

    h/t https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/cbs-newsman-charlie-rose-accused-220037563.html

  110. 110
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I do not want this becoming accepted as a new normal. They already pushed the boundaries with the gold star family bullshit and I don’t want them to keep going in this new direction.

    ETA: Its the little things that eventually let them get away with bigger things.

  111. 111
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    I’m disgusted with the Wonketariat at the moment. Many of them are jumping on this “ZOMG Al you have to resign!” bandwagon that is being drawn by Roger Stone.

    This is utter crap. The woman claims to be an “independent” but voted for Donald, and her husband is an outright Rethug. These people have “bear false witness” as one of the key skills in their political toolbox.

  112. 112
    jl says:

    @Barbara: I absolutely agree. If I typed anything that suggests that every case should be treated the same, then I made a mistake.

    Another problem with mob justice approach, where everyone has to have an opinion the moment a story breaks and everything works off of social media momentum, is that different cases will be lumped into the same thing. The the consequences of that mob justice right now, seems to be that anyone accused gets the maximum punishment. Until people get tired of the accusations, and then maybe no punishment unless the person is charged with a crime.

    And I guarantee people that an approach of mob justice by social media will be manipulated by the GOP and the Trumpsters and their flunkies like Fox News. One news report I heard was troubling, It said that politicians were OK with an ethics investigation for Franken because Franken volunteered for it and didn’t 100 percent deny the allegations. I can guarantee you that if Moore is elected he would not be OK with an investigation, and will stick with his current retraction of anything he did admit. What will happen if Moore is elected. Will the GOP use his stonewalling as an excuse to put off doing anything about him? From what I heard in the news, and how the politicians said they thought about, I think that is likely.

    This is social problem, where what is accepted by society is changing. We need to social process for deciding how to handle that change. Like the confederate statue controversy, it would be better to have national leadership that could help society find a way to deal with the issue. But we have a completely depraved executive and congress that I think will only work to exploit towards evil ends. So, we are on our own in figuring out how to handle the coming flood of accusations, for victims of famous people, though nothing apparently to help other victims who for whom nothing will change, it seems.

  113. 113
    debbie says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    They wouldn’t have been able to frame the entire stadium and resulting dust cloud. I can’t believe no thought was given to holding up traffic until it was over. The police had to know this was taking place.

  114. 114

    @Gin & Tonic: They probably needed to be further back to capture the whole building, or they needed a wider angle lens.

  115. 115
    germy says:

    The Georgia Dome

    I know there's probably nuance here I'm not aware of, but something about massive, state funded buildings having a life span of 25 years now bothers my inner cheapskate. https://t.co/sLtSKBN0u5— Schooley (@Rschooley) November 20, 2017

  116. 116
    Ruckus says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Back and ass do feel different. At least most of the time.

  117. 117
    TenguPhule says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: As I noted earlier, if we accept this woman’s narrative at face value she is an Oscar worthy actress able to smile for the camera while her husband who is taking her photo doesn’t notice a damn thing. I understand there are NTR plots that start off much like this.

  118. 118
    germy says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: And “Don’t let this story fade!” (from the second accuser’s tweet) sounds like something I’d see in a political fundraising letter.

    Something’s off about this whole thing.

  119. 119
    Another Scott says:

    @Fair Economist: Today I finally stopped loading a FTFNYT tab in the morning. Similarly with WaPo. I used to glance at their front pages 2-3 times a day, just to see what they thought was important. Whoever writes their headlines and the little blurbs has finally disgusted me enough at both of them that I won’t even give them a front-page click anymore.

    I don’t feel like I’m missing anything by just looking at Reuters and the BBC (and RawStory – clickbait, but from a lefty perspective) for mainstream news.

    YMMV.

    Cheers,
    Scott.
    (“They’re not going to change until people stop giving them money…”)

  120. 120
    debbie says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Arghhh, those hills!

  121. 121
    TenguPhule says:

    Yellen submitted her letter of resignation.

    Nobody going to be at the rudder of the FED pretty soon.

  122. 122
    J R in WV says:

    @Brachiator:

    From a previous thread:

    I suspect that for some people, they think their ass starts right under their shoulder blades. For others it starts down around the middle of their crack.

    Maybe I’ve been abusing all these women we hug when we see each other every couple of months? Surely they would stop holding their arms out for a hug when we get together at an event/dinner/party???

    End of older comment, beginning of new anger:

    There is a huge range between your hand not being where someone else thinks it should be in public, in photos, and Attempted Rape of a juvenile. Al Franken has done more for his country than most people ever will get a chance to accomplish.

    Is it possible that people want to throw him under the bus just because he is so effective? I am against people in positions of power using that power to mess with people of their desired gender. This “groping” bullshit isn’t well defined and doesn’t amount to even a misdemeanor, much less the felony “judge” Roy is accused of, with real evidence.

    I think people who aren’t worth spit in a hurricane are trying to get rid of one of the most effective Democratic politicians around. I’m against people who can’t put a sentence together if you spot them an hour trying to attack one of the more effective questioners and speakers we have working today!!

    When you can make KKKeelber elf Sessions squirm and break into a sweat, then you can complain about Senator Franken!!!

  123. 123
    lamh36 says:

    @WaterGirl: compare what Franken is accused of to what Glenn Thrush and Charlie Rose with MULTIPLE (>3) ACCUSERS…telling the SAME STORY…

    I still contend the first story bout Franken was a setup from the jump…and the more I see and hear about the story, I’m beginning to think…the accuser in that case if full of shit…but there is that photo “evidence”, so ok…

    This latest one…WTF…

  124. 124
    sharl says:

    PBS is suspending its broadcast of Charlie Rose: "PBS was shocked to learn today of these deeply disturbing allegations. We are immediately suspending distribution of 'Charlie Rose.'"— John Koblin (@koblin) November 20, 2017

    Would be more impressed if PBS had noticed that Charlie Rose almost never interviewed women. https://t.co/gg9FwXubhd— Amy Fried (@ASFried) November 20, 2017

    I don't think that's true, but he does CONSTANTLY TALK OVER THEM!— A. (@amt6249) November 20, 2017

  125. 125
    lamh36 says:

    @tommyxtopher
    Following Following @tommyxtopher
    More
    Why I love @AprilDRyan; tells condescending Huckabee Sanders she’s thankful for 20 years in that seat and the chance to question Sanders “every single day.” Adds “I hope you felt the passion of my thankfulness.”
    https://twitter.com/tommyxtopher/status/932712535748378625

  126. 126
    debbie says:

    @WaterGirl:

    and a butt brush during a photo.

    I invite you to ride the NYC subway for a day and then tell me what a nothingburger it was that every skeeze within a mile brushed your butt when they passed through the car.

  127. 127

    @lamh36: He is not even touching her. Its sophomoric frat boy humor, tasteless, but so are many SNL skits. Not an offense worthy of demanding his head on the platter.

  128. 128
    debbie says:

    @lamh36:

    Man, I hope that was taped! I’ll have to watch for it on the 11:00 news tonight.

  129. 129
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @WaterGirl: Have you seen the video with Tweeden and Robin Williams?

  130. 130
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jk:

    Oh, fuck this guy:

    I always felt that I was pursuing shared feelings, even though I now realize I was mistaken.

    This is the bitch was asking for it channeled through emo language.

  131. 131

    @sharl: I remember when Rose was in India with W, he was condescending asshole in his interview with veteran actor Shabana Azmi.

  132. 132
    jl says:

    @TenguPhule: Yellen was great. Someone persuaded Trump to nominate Powell, who knows what he is doing and of the publicly known pool of nominees, is closest in his thinking to Yellen. Which brings up the question, why replace Yellen with Yellen mini-me? Here is an interesting article on the nominee. (edit: probably because Yellen was nominated by Obama)

    Trump’s Fed chair nominee is a lot like Yellen. So why replace her?
    By Kai Ryssdal and Sean McHenry
    November 02, 2017 | 1:01 PM
    https://www.marketplace.org/2017/11/02/economy/trump-s-fed-chair-nominee-jerome-powell-is-like-yellen

  133. 133
    Ohio Mom says:

    I am beginning to be reminded of that era — it was the 80’s — when every other child care program had to deal with accusations of serious child abuse.

    A friend of good friends was caught up in a local case coming out of one of Cincinnati’s largest synagogue’s summer day camp. The accusations were wildly ludricous.

    His empty-nesters parents remortgaged their paid off house to pay for the attorney, and none of the accused got any sleep for months. Eventually everyone was exonerated.

    Meanwhile, children elsewhere continued to be abused in secret.

  134. 134

    @TenguPhule: Not old enough to remember Dubya’s Free Speech Zones?

  135. 135
    TenguPhule says:

    @jl: Anyone Trump nominates is tainted and unsuitable by definition.

    Not ONE single appointee has worked as intended.

    NOT ONE.

  136. 136
    Mnemosyne says:

    @debbie:

    Except that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about posing for a photo with someone and your hand (or theirs) accidentally brushing across their butt or chest. Has that really never happened to you, even once?

  137. 137
    LurkerNoLonger says:

    @germy: The Hannity connection is suspect too. Leave it to fucking scumbag Republicans to weaponize sexual assault allegations.

  138. 138
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I remember them. They spread even while the fucking anti-abortion terrorists encroached on clinics in a bullshit double standard.

    But conditioning reporters at the daily press briefings to act like trained monkeys hoping for a treat is yet another serious breach of the norms and traditions and I’m not liking this whole “but its not the worst thing they’ve done today” complacency that’s sinking in.

    Last time resulted in Bush Jr getting a free pass for years.

  139. 139
    Mary G says:

    I would give good odds that the ethics investigation of Franken never happens. That would be opening Pandora’s box.

  140. 140
    Keith G says:

    If the latest story about Frankin is true (i certainly do not know), then there have been other occasions which may or may not become part of the public record. My experience has been (from straight observation and gay experience) that “handsy” males continue onward as “handsy males”. Guys who have diminished boundary recognition or inadequate empathy don’t suddenly join the better-socialized world.

  141. 141
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ruckus:

    Sorry, bub, but I’m still not going to let you demonstrate at the next meetup. 😜😂🤣

    And for those who can’t see my emojis — IT’S A JOKE.

  142. 142
    lamh36 says:

    @debbie: the video is at the link

  143. 143
    debbie says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’ve had plenty of encounters on subways and buses, but no, never when getting a photo with someone else. Of course, I refuse to be in pictures and always flee the frame of reference. Has Franken said it was accidental? I thought I heard he couldn’t recall.

  144. 144
    rikyrah says:

    @mike in dc:
    Incidents? Are you kidding me? How is this foolishness with Franken
    ‘ incidents’?

  145. 145

    @TenguPhule:

    But conditioning reporters at the daily press briefings to act like trained monkeys hoping for a treat is yet another serious breach of the norms and traditions and I’m not liking this whole “but its not the worst thing they’ve done today” complacency that’s sinking in.

    This strikes me as verging on* harmless back-and-forth with the journalists, the kind that every administration that’s held daily briefings has engaged in, including Obama’s. Remember Robert Gibbs? He was salty AF to reporters.

    It’s not like Sanders didn’t take questions from reporters who didn’t play along.

    *I say ‘verging on harmless’ because nothing these people do should be assumed to be harmless.

  146. 146
    debbie says:

    @lamh36:

    Ah, the passion of her finger jabbing as she spoke! Brilliant!

  147. 147
    Mike J says:

    Word on the tweets is that the pizzagate peeps are planning a fake harassment story. Or perhaps they’re planting the story that they’ll plant a story to make people skeptical of women.

  148. 148
    germy says:

    @LurkerNoLonger: They’ll weaponize whatever they can get their hands on.

  149. 149
    randy khan says:

    @debbie:

    “Can’t decide which is more hilarious, the bus blockage or the cursing. i didn’t know they were allowed to do that on The Weather Channel.”

    Unlike broadcast TV, the Weather Channel can run cursing if it wants, although if it went full HBO it might have some trouble getting carried as part of the basic cable package. My guess, honestly, is that what we’re hearing on the video is an internal audio channel that wasn’t run on the air. TWC has posted this video online (with a hilarious headline), and I suspect the audio was edited in before it was posted. And, BTW, that shows a good sense of humor on the channel’s part. Not everyone would have done that.

  150. 150
    WaterGirl says:

    @germy:

    Something’s off about this whole thing.

    Yep. Something is majorly off.

    Also, I was shocked last week to see people here saying what a great “I accept your apology” the response was by the USO woman in the flak jacket. The report I read was something like “I accept the apology, and I didn’t intend to case a big stir (I don’t buy that for a minute) or ask Al Franken to resign, but something something if other women come forward… ”

    To me the whole thing was like seeding the clouds to get rain, to get the ball rolling against the senator who kicks their asses with his questioning.

    I believe that both of these accusations are fueled by politics. I worked with rape victims for years, with our local group, and I will be the first to say women must be believed when they say they are raped. But that doesn’t mean we have to believe every lame story about an ass grab, etc. That’s a whole different animal from rape.

  151. 151
    Baud says:

    @debbie: Both times he said he doesn’t remember things that way. A little weak, especially the second time. OTOH, I can see why he doesn’t want to deny the claims outright and end up litigating these things in the press.

  152. 152
    rikyrah says:

    @lamh36:
    I am with you
    Democrats better grow a phucking spine!
    Stop falling for the banana in the tail pipe

  153. 153
    Mnemosyne says:

    @debbie:

    Subways and buses are known places for pervs to rub themselves against people. You can actually get the guy arrested if you move fast enough to get the attention of a transit cop.

    A Facebook friend in Chicago is currently going through a drawn-out process of getting the guy who exposed himself to her on the L (train) convicted. He’s a repeat offender, but that also means he’s really good at stretching the cases out until most of the victims stop showing up and the cases get dropped. Unfortunately for him, she’s on a worker’s comp leave from her job right now, so she has plenty of time to show up at each and every court date. 😈

  154. 154
    debbie says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    Ah, yes, Mary McMartin. Not only was daycare child abuse suddenly epidemic, but I remember a woman in St. Louis who suddenly remembered years and years of abuse by practically every man in the neighborhood. The New Yorker had a long article on all this at the time. Later, it turned out to be suggestions from therapists.

  155. 155

    Sometimes it’s hard to know what the ethical thing is.

    I was once on a committee that recommended firing a tenured faculty member for sexual harassment. We weren’t allowed to talk about what he did outside the committee. Later he got a job at another university, where it’s probable that he continued his behavior (since the committee had evidence of more than one instance). So did we just move our problem elsewhere, like Catholic parishes moving predatory priests?

  156. 156
    WaterGirl says:

    @J R in WV: Just want to say how much I have appreciated every one of your comments on this issue since it started last Thursday.

  157. 157
    germy says:

    @WaterGirl:

    The report I read was something like “I accept the apology, and I didn’t intend to case a big stir (I don’t buy that for a minute)

    I’ve said before I really think she expected him to react like Moore. Deny everything and attack her. I think she and Hannity were gearing up for a fight.

    And then when Franken apologized, they were stunned. Republicans always assume everyone will behave like them. So she accepted his apology, and who knows, maybe it rewired her brain a tiny bit?

  158. 158
    WaterGirl says:

    @lamh36: Totally agree.

  159. 159
    Emma says:

    @Baud: He may not remember the second one. For God’s sake, he’s a politician. He must attend hundreds of events a year where he poses with constituents. If you go to cons, do you remember every freaking person you meet? (added) I used to attend two/three library conferences every year. Met thousands of folk. Unless we were discussing business or exchanging business cards for later conversation, I couldn’t for the life of me remember most of the people I met.

  160. 160
    lamh36 says:

    I saw this morning that Mika Brezinski on Morning Joe said Bill C should retire from politics or something until he apologize to his accuser or some such.

    And to be honest, my first thought was, it’s interesting Mika said this and not Joe Scar…and I think that was deliberate. Cause I have NO DOUBT Joe Scar hands are NOT clean when it comes to sexism…hell…he bullies MIka even in the beginning, but her Stockholm Syndrome is so strong, she married (or is gonna marry) Joey Scar…

  161. 161
    Baud says:

    @Emma: Agree. But if he wanted to give a forceful response that would get media attention, he could append at the end of his statement that in those hundreds of instances he has never grabbed a woman’s butt. But such a statement would just provide fodder for the media, and I can see why he doesn’t want to do that.

  162. 162
    lamh36 says:

    @germy: I def think they thought it’s be like Moore…esp with the glee Roger Stone had about it…so much so…he jumped the gun by saying something was coming like hours before the story broke.

  163. 163
    TenguPhule says:

    @lamh36: O’l Joe has that dead intern he was sleeping with found in his office problem.

  164. 164
    WaterGirl says:

    @debbie: I see what you have described on the subway as a completely different thing from people putting their arms around someone for a photo.

    Things can go wrong when body parts are moving for the photo setup. I also think it’s skeevy that Daddy Bush has been doing that to women for years. It was an open secret.

    But this “Al Franken grabbed by mass” story today doesn’t pass the smell test for me. Also, women have agency. If a politician grabbed my butt cheek during a photo pose I wouldn’t be smiling happily for the photo, I would be saying “what the hell do you think you’re doing?” Just not buying that story.

  165. 165
    Baud says:

    @lamh36: Does Mika know that Bill is retired from politics?

  166. 166
    randy khan says:

    @Baud:

    I actually think the second “I don’t remember it that way” is more credible than the first one was. Franken probably has been in ten thousand photos with random people he meets somewhere, and maybe even a couple of hundred that day (remembering it was at the state fair). The chances he remember more than a handful of them in any specific way are pretty low.

  167. 167
    WaterGirl says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: No. What video?

  168. 168
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud: And the sow would enjoy it.

    /No insult to pigs intended.

  169. 169
    Baud says:

    @randy khan: See my # 161.

  170. 170
    jl says:

    @WaterGirl: ” I will be the first to say women must be believed when they say they are raped. But that doesn’t mean we have to believe every lame story about an ass grab, etc. That’s a whole different animal from rape. ”

    I think better to say that anyone who comes forward with charges in good faith will be protected, regardless of the judgment as to the truth.

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): That is one of the things that bothers me about the way the (very good and needed) change in what is socially acceptable is gong, with instant public judgment given too much weight. What is happening for accusers who have to struggle in complete obscurity?

    Besides the problem of these sorts of offenses not gong on some kind of ‘public record’ for people who have been found culpable, I’ve noticed that a public record is more easily established when the accused is more obscure. Powerful get protected. And a pattern of not protecting accusers who come forward n good faith, they often pay a heavy price, sometimes under the infuriating guise of helping them. Retaliation by accused or the institution is common.

  171. 171
    ruemara says:

    @Gin & Tonic: lol, no. But you may not have a lens wide enough for just the right balance between, detail and setting.

    @Ruckus: I could make an inappropriate flass joke, but I’m rendering stuff.

  172. 172
    WaterGirl says:

    @Baud: I think he didn’t even remember a photo with the woman. He surely poses for hundreds of photos at every state fair. Why would he remember a specific one? Let’s ask Barack Obama if he remembers the photo with me in Iowa from December 2007.

  173. 173
    Baud says:

    @WaterGirl: See my # 161.

  174. 174
    Kathleen says:

    @Fair Economist: It also explains to some extent their horrible coverage of HIllary.

  175. 175
    sharl says:

    From Dark Times come dark humor

    This Celebrity Perv Apology Generator is brutal and utterly perfect: https://t.co/s9M4vDTpy5— Alyssa Rosenberg (@AlyssaRosenberg) November 20, 2017

    https://scott.vegas/apology/

    I clicked a few times; someone has been diligently doing their homework.

  176. 176
    Brachiator says:

    @J R in WV:

    Maybe I’ve been abusing all these women we hug when we see each other every couple of months? Surely they would stop holding their arms out for a hug when we get together at an event/dinner/party???

    Sometimes when I read some (not all) Balloon Juice commenters, I wonder if I am from an alternate universe. As far as I can tell, having been in this world a long time, most men know when they are groping, and most women know when they are being groped.

    When I was a pup, trying to become a man, I had to deal with peers who would joke about rubbing against women or grabbing them. At some jobs, I would hear executives, not just rank and file workers, joke about rubbing against or grabbing secretaries, etc. Even in “respectable” liberal organizations. And I would hear waitresses talk about customers with grabby hands.

    This shit ain’t ambiguous.

    And of course, you have all the stranger groping that goes on on public transportation, etc.

    End of my mini rant.

    There is a huge range between your hand not being where someone else thinks it should be in public, in photos, and Attempted Rape of a juvenile. Al Franken has done more for his country than most people ever will get a chance to accomplish.

    Al Franken should be investigated, like anyone else. His past good service does not give him immunity.

    But in my world, I would vigorously pursue any egregious perp first, including Republicans given cover by their friends and voters. Then I would come back around to liberals and Democrats.

    But yeah, the zero tolerance court of public opinion is getting out of hand.

    ETA: Trying to do this fast. When I was in college, I happened to be in the room when a famous woman poet talked to a group of women about life, her work and other matters. Then she spoke, with sadness of a male poet who was a terrible abuser of women. However, he was protected because people, men and women decided that he was “too important the cause” to be brought down. She seemed to mention this with a hint of warning to these women to protect themselves, not necessarily from this man, but from men like him as they went about their work in the world, especially if they themselves became prominent, since this man’s victims were also often famous. She also spoke as if to say that this is the way the world is, that nothing could be done.

    I always thought this was sad and unfair, and tried, where possible, where necessary, to fight against it. But I have never forgotten this woman’s expression of resignation and helplessness. And this was not simply a powerful man getting away with things. This was an entire community giving him cover. Shameful.

  177. 177
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @WaterGirl: There is reportedly a video of her and Williams on a previous USO tour where he is pretend groping her and MORE. There’s also a video of a previous tour with the same skit (she wasn’t on that tour) with a kiss in it, which may mean Franken didn’t write the kiss in just for her. Also, the video of Leann grabassing a guitar player as well.

  178. 178
    MomSense says:

    The Republicans are monsters. This tax scam they are pushing is reprehensible. I’m dealing with people who are living on the damned edge and I’m constantly trying to finagle services and help – donating my time to get them to appointments, 12 step meetings, the pharmacy, the store, trying to help them clean their apartments so they won’t be evicted. The amount of money it would cost to stabilize my clients is like one Louise Linton Mnuchin outfit.

    I’m furious. When will these sociopathic Republicans be satisfied? When we are all in debtors prison? Dead? I’m completely serious. If you follow the Republican ideology the only outcomes are sadness and tragedy.

    And the pathetic free press is going to both sides whatabout this bullshit. Democrats are not the best at messaging but our lack of Orwellian manipulation is hardly on par with Republican cruelty. Guess what- we try not to just lie and make shit up. We aren’t zombies repeating the same dishonest talking points. We actually value the exchange of differing ideas and opinions. We are trying to help people and some of us and differ on how best to do so. Some say to hell with patient progress while others of us are just trying to get a foot in the door and open it a bit more so others can get in.
    Meanwhile the Republicans are goingnafter the deduction for crayons and markers that teachers buy with their own money so that 11,310 people won’t have to pay any taxes ON THEIR MEGA MILLIONS. How about if you love your country, you think it’s he greatest in the world, and it has made your richest dreams come true – you prove your patriotism with some cash money?

    I am getting pretty damned sick of this.

  179. 179
    Citizen Alan says:

    @sharl:

    One intriguing detail jumped out at me. For at least one of the most explosive accusations, it sounds like he was actually enabled by his female producer who told a 21 year old woman that Rose’s creepy late night phone calls were just “Charlie being Charlie.”

  180. 180
    sharl says:

    I am at the point where i seriously, sincerely wonder how all women don't regard all men as monsters to be constantly feared. the real world turns out to be a legit horror movie that I inhabited and knew nothing about.— Farhad Manjoo (feat. Drake) (@fmanjoo) November 20, 2017

    i know this is well-intentioned, but this drives me crazy. we don't have a choice but to survive in this world. many of us grapple with debilitating fears. we live anyway. https://t.co/Y97oXBLTt9— sonia saraiya (@soniasaraiya) November 20, 2017

    Saraiya has a couple other tweets in the (short) thread following the one I posted, but this single tweet stands on its own pretty well.

  181. 181
    amygdala says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): I served on an ad hoc committee investigating an incident, too. There have been incidents in STEM of faculty leaving an institution due to harassment allegations, finding another faculty post, and–no surprise–not changing their ways in any manner. Jackie Speier (D-California) has been trying to shine a light on this.

    I think it needs to be linked to federal funding. It’s the only way institutions will pay attention and police their faculty properly. Title IX hasn’t really done it, but losing indirects just might.

  182. 182

    @Ruckus: You must not hang around many Koreans.

  183. 183
    sharl says:

    @Citizen Alan: Yep, the dying embers from the Mad Men era haven’t been dying out fast enough.

  184. 184
    Kathleen says:

    @WaterGirl: I second that.

  185. 185
    Suzanne says:

    I am sitting here at work, with tears running silently down my face. LMMFAO.

  186. 186
    jl says:

    @MomSense: complain to your local station, be polite and offer constructive criticism and offer alternative viewpoints and references. Make sure you mention that you might not listen anymore or look favorably on advertisers who are willing to associate with substandard quality product. From my experience, it makes a difference. Also complain to big shot network or cable outfit, though I’m not sure how much difference that makes.

  187. 187

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Do Koreans not have good back/ass dimorphism?

  188. 188
    Baud says:

    @Suzanne: I forgot all about the post topic. Thought you were laughing at the sexual harassment.

  189. 189
    rikyrah says:

    @LurkerNoLonger:
    You associated with Hannity= me NEVER believing you.
    Period.

  190. 190

    @amygdala: At the time, I felt bold because we recommended firing him. This was a while ago and we were all struggling to change awareness. Now I wonder about women at the new institution.

  191. 191
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Bill’s probably had to use the “I thought that was your back” excuse a couple of times.

  192. 192
    Citizen Alan says:

    @jk:

    Insensitively?!? One of the accusers said he would parade around naked in front of her and then called her late at night to discuss his fantasy about spying on her as she went skinny-dipping!

  193. 193
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @rikyrah: This X infinity.

  194. 194
    rikyrah says:

    @MomSense:
    I feel every word

  195. 195
    germy says:

    McCaskill had Orin Hatch sputtering

    ohhhhhhh shhiiiiiiiiiiii….. pic.twitter.com/4upLfsUi1S— Adam Parkhomenko (@AdamParkhomenko) November 19, 2017

  196. 196

    @Baud: Yeah, there’s that whole 22nd amendment thing. Hey, Meeka, you know Barack Obama’s retired from politics too.

  197. 197
    But her emails!!! says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    In fairness to Leann, that may just mean she was just one in a line of women that were humiliated for entertainment value and that Franken was just one in a line of men who continued the tradition of being an asshat. Doesn’t make it right. Similarly, we have no idea if she’s an enthusiastic participant or just grinning and baring the indignity in the other interactions.

  198. 198
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @But her emails!!!: Well but the Williams tour was before the Franken tour. If it was bad why did she go back for more of the same?

  199. 199

    @Major Major Major Major: They don’t have much in the way of butts.

  200. 200
    Baud says:

    @But her emails!!!: Seems like that’s something she would have explained when this all came out, no?

  201. 201
    But her emails!!! says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
    To entertain the troops? Because it was good for her career? Because other than being glad handed and kissed by the male members of her entourage it was a good experience?

  202. 202
    PJ says:

    @debbie: Franken has no recollection of meeting this woman because it was one of hundreds of photos he took with people that day, out of thousands more that he has taken with people at the Minnesota State Fair over the years. How the hell should he remember it? Whether or not his hand touched her ass is anyone’s guess, but the fact that she only referred to it as being “molested” after her sister commented on Facebook that, in the photo, they were not a “Bibles (sic) width apart”, will give you some idea of her mindset.

  203. 203
    WaterGirl says:

    @Baud: I am not direecting this at you specifically, Baud, but I think a lot of people are careless readers and reading comprehension of specific derails in the weeding ot the response both play a part in how people see the recent reports, as does the imprecise way we word our comments.

    For instance, there is a difference between “I don’t recall” – ala the Keebler Elf

    and
    I don’t remember the incident THE WAY SHE DESCRIBED IT
    and
    I don’t remember having my picture taken with that woman
    and
    I don’t remember grabbing that woman’s ass.
    …..

    I think that’s part of what makes me see red on this issue. All the casual and careless reading and imprecise wording of comments and opinions leads to the whole thing taking on a life of its own and possibly ending the career or a most excellent senator and having a profound effect on the democratic party. I am specifically not mentioning the impact of the women because even if there was an ass grabbing incident (which I don’t believe) that wouldn’t have a huge impact on her life.

    That’s different from not believing the woman who was 14 when she was assaulted by a 32-yeer old man.

  204. 204
    debbie says:

    @JR in WV: @ 122

    Maybe I’ve been abusing all these women we hug when we see each other every couple of months? Surely they would stop holding their arms out for a hug when we get together at an event/dinner/party???

    Maybe you were or maybe you weren’t. But you know what? You don’t get to be the one who decides that.

  205. 205
    WaterGirl says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Thank you! Of course, that’s probably not getting much press. Grrr.

  206. 206
    amygdala says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): The pressure to look the other way for tenured faculty has always been enormous, and that is also part of the problem. I think it’s fair to say that most universities are invested in making these sorts of charges go away or, failing that, handing out a stern “stop that,” with a wishy-washy letter in the file that gets pulled in a couple of years.

    I don’t know how it is in your field, but there are whispernets in some of the sciences, as well as in philosophy and econ, as I understand it, where faculty will strongly advise women undergrads to avoid graduate programs in particular departments, or at least specific faculty in those departments.

    So tired of hearing about witch hunts and due process given the damage serial offenders can do. How about the students and postdocs who are victimized? What about their lost potential?

  207. 207
    Baud says:

    @WaterGirl:

    All the casual and careless reading and imprecise wording of comments and opinions leads to the whole thing taking on a life of its own

    Sure. That’s partly how Trump won the presidency. It works, and too many people who should know better, don’t.

  208. 208

    @Baud: Actually, I’m not a hugger. The only people I hug are my wife and the kid. I feel very uncomfortable being touched by pretty much anyone. My mom always told me to keep my hands to myself.

    If we need to throw Sen. Franken out of of the Senate for this shit, we need to dig up his mentor Sen. Wellstone who was a hugger. Franken used to say on his radio program that “Paul hugged everyone”.

  209. 209
    Mary G says:

    @Suzanne: I have been toying with the idea of driving over to Arizona, buying and activating a bunch of burn phones there with that area code, then coming home and calling Jeff Flake and John McCain constantly to scream about the tax bill. I could also stop and give you a hug. Are you OK?

  210. 210
    RoonieRoo says:

    This thread is making me nauseous. WaterGirl is making the whole Tweeden thing about the photo when the story is actually about the rehearsal when she says Franken forced a kiss and put his tongue in her mouth. Nobody seems to want to talk about that part of the accusation. I notice that it gets dropped from every conversation about this on BJ.

    When I was 19, I was with a pre-law group visiting our capital for a mock court trial. I have a picture of me in a group picture with the Chief Justice of the Tx Supreme Court. As the photo was being taken his hand landed squarely on my ass for a nice grope. At that moment, it was entirely my word against the Chief Justice. Bullshit to you WaterGirl that you know how you would have reacted in such a situation.

    Every time something like this starts, I always believe that the Dems will be better than the Repubs and then BJ threads have to re-educate me that many here will behave EXACTLY like every Repub defending Moore.

    Have you checked out her kitchen countertops yet? You seriously sound exactly like the R’s with this obsession over when she did in other skits, her other past activities and other crap discounting what she said actually happened in the rehearsal as the problem.

  211. 211
    WaterGirl says:

    @But her emails!!!: If she was ass-grabbing herself, I call bullshit on her being able to play that card. Women are not helpless. 14-year old girls, on the other hand…

  212. 212
    Cacti says:

    @amygdala:

    So tired of hearing about … due process

    That’s a very reactionary statement.

  213. 213
    JPL says:

    At a meeting today someone mentioned that they thought the Today show was liberal. I laughed and said I couldn’t believe that we had to label network morning shows that way. The person asked what I watched, and I said CBS Morning show, but admitted that the straight news coverage was on the boring side. hmmm

  214. 214
    lamh36 says:

    @mattmfm
    Hey, I wonder if this widespread culture of sexual harassment in journalism had any effect on coverage of the first female major-party presidential nominee?
    https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/932729702376239113

  215. 215
    CaseyL says:

    @WaterGirl: I did just that after the first story broke: called and said “Do NOT resign!”. I’d be happy to do it again, but he mostly needs to hear from his constituents.

    @RoonieRoo: It was during a rehearsal for a skit that called for exactly that – him to force a kiss on her – which may be why nobody but the RW is focusing on it. Unless you want actors to start accusing their costars of harassment because they did a romantic or sex scene that was in the script?

  216. 216
    TenguPhule says:

    @MomSense:

    When will these sociopathic Republicans be satisfied? When we are all in debtors prison? Dead?

    Yes.

    If you follow the Republican ideology the only outcomes are sadness and tragedy.

    Feature, not a bug.

    I am getting pretty damned sick of this.

    Come sit by me, I know exactly how you feel.

  217. 217
    WaterGirl says:

    @Baud: I appreciate your changing my “weeding” typo to “reading” as it should have been. This typing with 9 fingers (because of my current injured finger) makes typing a giant pain. Literally and figuratively!

  218. 218
    Cacti says:

    @lamh36:

    @mattmfm
    Hey, I wonder if this widespread culture of sexual harassment in journalism had any effect on coverage of the first female major-party presidential nominee?
    https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/932729702376239113

    Trump talking to Billy Bush about how he liked to grope and kiss unsuspecting women was just “locker room talk” that showed how relatable he was.

    Meanwhile, Hillary was responsible for Bill being a cad. The frigid bitch.

  219. 219
    bemused says:

    @WaterGirl: @WaterGirl:

    Yes! Men do need to trust women on this and not those women’s groups that are ready to dump him. I cant even read about them, I want to smack them so hard.

  220. 220
    TenguPhule says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    They don’t have much in the way of butts.

    Not touching that one.

  221. 221
    TenguPhule says:

    @RoonieRoo:

    when the story is actually about the rehearsal when she says Franken forced a kiss and put his tongue in her mouth. Nobody seems to want to talk about that part of the accusation.

    Oh bullshit. That part of her story has no support and is her word against his.

    And she’s a paid professional FOX liar.

    So let’s see what she’s willing to say under oath.

  222. 222
    PJ says:

    @RoonieRoo: Nobody is not talking about it, it’s just that their isn’t much to say, based on the evidence we have. They were rehearsing a skit that involved a kiss. She says she didn’t want to do the skit but agreed to do it anyway. She says he forced his tongue in her mouth, he says that’s not the way he remembers it. Do you have something to add to that?

  223. 223
    RoonieRoo says:

    @CaseyL: Did you actually read her story about what happened or did you only read what everyone else says?

  224. 224
    amygdala says:

    @Cacti: Oh, the irony.

  225. 225
    TenguPhule says:

    @PJ:

    Do you have something to add to that?

    Something Something, Both Sides!

    Something Something PURITY NOW!!

  226. 226
    RoonieRoo says:

    @TenguPhule: @TenguPhule: Oooooh. Sorry, I forgot that only a liberal could possibly be believed or tell the truth. If you are a conservative you are instantly a liar. Ooooooo…do you know what kind of countertop she has in her kitchen? You sound exactly like someone that is important to in order determine what type of person they are.

  227. 227
    WaterGirl says:

    @RoonieRoo: I think we will have to disagree.

    The kiss was part of the rehearsal and she said “okay” to the rehearsal, so that doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. So, YES, I did forget about that part.

    I had a short-term boyfriend who would sometimes push/cajole me into having sex when I wasn’t interested. I was a grown woman letting myself be pushed into something I didn’t really want. That wasn’t rape, though, by any stretch of the imagination. There’s a reason we weren’t together very long.

    I am beginning to think this situation is a trigger for some people, because logic doesn’t seem to figure into some of the responses. That makes it more complicated and I feel bad for anyone who might be feeling that way.

  228. 228
    TenguPhule says:

    @RoonieRoo: If you’re a Republican who regularly guests on Hannity’s show to lie about anything, guess what, your credibility is in doubt on EVERYTHING.

    Try harder, Purity Troll.

  229. 229
    bemused says:

    @lamh36:

    I just read that she has a book coming out in 2018 and this time she will be revealing more of her personal opinions saying this WH has taken off her brakes.

  230. 230
    Patricia Kayden says:

    So Mugabe has been a dictator for 37 years and is 93 years old and still won’t step down from power in Zimbabwe. He’s facing impeachment. I’m surprised Trump has tweeted his support of Mugabe since he seems to love authoritarians so much.

  231. 231
    RoonieRoo says:

    @PJ: My point is that the accusation of what happened during the rehearsal is the relevant part of the issue and whenever anyone here discusses the accusations, they make it sound like the photo is the only part of the story and, therefore, is a big nothingburger. That is exactly how the R’s behave and the people are basically following the Moore/Trump defenders playbook. It’s irritating and disappointing to see my side behaving exactly the same.

    Instead of talking about the actual issue as a whole everyone here is taking her apart like they scream about when the R’s take victims of their pols apart.

  232. 232
    ThresherK says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Meaning, “has tweeted his support” or “hasn’t tweeted his support”?

    If you typed in error, it’s an easy mistake.

  233. 233
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @WaterGirl: At the beginning of this video Leann introduces Williams. Link

  234. 234
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Bernie Woulda Won Zimbabwe

  235. 235
    Mary G says:

    @RoonieRoo: I’m sorry, I’ve had men think I was into them grab me and stick their tongues in my mouth. I pushed them away and told them off and they apologized or called me a frigid bitch or whatevs and that was the end of it. She said she pushed him away and told him off and he desisted. To me, that’s an unfortunate misunderstanding and lack of communication. The ones that ignored me and tried to do it again went over the line. That’s the distinction I make.

  236. 236
    tobie says:

    What I don’t get is why so many Democrats feel they have to prove that they don’t defend their own reflexively in the face of sexual harassment/inappropriate conduct allegations. I don’t recall any Democrat defending Eric Massa or Anthony Weiner or Eliot Spitzer, just to recall a few Dem politicians who resigned recently in disgrace. Some of us just have questions about the allegations against Franken–whether they’re true, how serious they are, what’s an appropriate response, etc. Time will tell. I just hope the Senate ethics investigation doesn’t become an occasion for showboating.

  237. 237
    Cacti says:

    @RoonieRoo:

    Oooooh. Sorry, I forgot that only a liberal could possibly be believed or tell the truth. If you are a conservative you are instantly a liar. Ooooooo…do you know what kind of countertop she has in her kitchen? You sound exactly like someone that is important to in order determine what type of person they are.

    This just proves that Bernie would have won.

  238. 238
    RoonieRoo says:

    @TenguPhule: Ah I’m a purity troll because I want my side to be better people. Yeah. Well, you will be the death of the Democratic party as you drag us down into your swamp of partisanship and “It’s Okay If You Are A Democrat”.

  239. 239
    Mary G says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Mugabe is black. Not OK with Twitler.

  240. 240
    jk says:

    @Citizen Alan:

    For all these years, I thought Charlie Rose was simply an overpaid empty suit. I didn’t expect to learn that he was a pervert.

  241. 241
    TenguPhule says:

    @RoonieRoo: The whole issue is whether her accusations are credible.

    Clearly there is considerable room for doubt given she’s PAID PROFESSIONALLY TO LIE on TV.

    Doug, this isn’t funny anymore.;

  242. 242
    Cacti says:

    @RoonieRoo:

    as you drag us down into your swamp of partisanship

    Trump bot pretending to be left wing purity pony lets the mask slip.

    Good luck draining the swamp and making America great again.

  243. 243
    Baud says:

    @tobie: Agree.

  244. 244
    TenguPhule says:

    @RoonieRoo:

    Ah I’m a purity troll because I want my side to be better people by self flagellation and Franken is HISTORY’S WORST MONSTER!!!

    Yes.

  245. 245
    PJ says:

    @RoonieRoo: It may be the kiss rehearsal is a big nothingburger or not – either he wrote it in specifically so that he could slip her some tongue, or there was miscommunication, and she thought it was going to be a peck on the lips and he thought it would be something more passionate or sloppy, and it ended up with her offended. The worst case scenario for Franken is the former, which is a definitely a bad thing to do, but not something I think he should lose his job over. Franken did a similar skit on a previous tour: http://www.twincities.com/2017.....2003-skit/. Maybe he wrote that skit just so he could kiss attractive women, maybe he wrote it because he thought it was funny. I am content to wait to see what the Ethics investigation turns up.

  246. 246
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Shrillhouse: who is on Team Manson?

  247. 247
    Suzanne says:

    @Baud:

    I forgot all about the post topic. Thought you were laughing at the sexual harassment.

    I have been laughing today at all of the men who seem absolutely SHOCKED!!! and OUTRAGED!!! at all of the sexual harassment business coming out. Like, hello? Is this news to ANYONE?!

  248. 248
    RoonieRoo says:

    @Mary G:I agree with what you are saying and I think your interpretation is most likely correct. That is the conversation that should be happening. I’m really not trying to be argumentative here today.

    But the attacks on her personally (her politics, her past) are just sickening from this group in particular. TenguPhule sounds just like a RedState commenter in reverse.

  249. 249

    @Cacti: Isn’t Ronnie a long-time commenter?

  250. 250
    RoonieRoo says:

    @Cacti: Awesome!!! I am now a Trumpbot! I cannot wait to tell Grumpy. Woohoo! Do I win something now that I’ve earned the Trumpbot title?

  251. 251

    @WaterGirl: I find the whole rehearsal/performance division confusing. Remember when the picture of the kiss showed up, at first someone here (Mnem?) said it was of the rehearsal because they were holding scripts. But then the wider shot showed it was during the performance. Today I saw a script of this bit from the 2003 tour (not the 2006 one), and the script is of people rehearsing, which would explain why they were carrying scripts during a performance. In the script, Al says we have to rehearse this kiss, and the woman (a different actress) says you just put this kiss in here so you could kiss me. IOW, the scene Leann describes is in the script.

    I suppose I could have seen a phony script. I can’t remember where I saw it. And Leann may have experienced it and remembered it differently. But as I say, I find this confusing.

  252. 252
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Just One More Canuck:

    who is on Team Manson?

    Wasn’t he on the Yankees

  253. 253
    RoonieRoo says:

    @PJ: Thank you PJ. I am happy that people here are having the real conversation. You and MaryG have restored my faith in BJ. I just want the investigation to happen so that we can be the party I believe in, that takes this stuff seriously. I got my big red button pushed tonight. Sorry.

  254. 254
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @ThresherK: Sorry, I meant “hasn’t tweeted his support”. Ta.

  255. 255
    hueyplong says:

    Doesn’t seem to matter what the post is about (this one was about the Georgia Dome implosion being obscured by a MARTA bus). We always end up here, squawking about whether we’re pure enough.

    I’d like to hijack every thread into the fact that fuckers are robbing us blind with this tax bill. No bot, Quisling, or purity troll wants to talk about the bill, because it’s indefensible.

  256. 256
    TenguPhule says:

    @RoonieRoo: Please proceed, Snowflake.

    Do you believe her story?

    What do you want Franken to do beyond what he has already done?

    What is the standard you’re looking for? Condemnation at the first accusation?

    How do you feel that Moore and Franken’s cases are similar in any way?

  257. 257
    TenguPhule says:

    @hueyplong:

    I’d like to hijack every thread into the fact that fuckers are robbing us blind with this tax bill. No bot, Quisling, or purity troll wants to talk about the bill, because it’s indefensible.

    Nothing stopping any of us.

    Though I’m running out of bad B-movie cliches to describe just how fucking insane the GOP tax abomination is.

  258. 258
    RoonieRoo says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I’ve been here since right after Cole’s conversion started due to Schiavo. I don’t comment a ton unless I get my big red button pushed. I get a little “het up” when that happens. Heck I was an Obama delegate in ’08 and my hubby, Grumpy Code Monkey, was a Clinton delegate to state this last round. I’m a little jazzed at being called a Trumpbot. :)

  259. 259
    Emma says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Yes. Universities do that all the time. The thing they fear the most is scandal that might hurt the endless quest for donations and endowments.

  260. 260
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: LOL. Then hopefully he’ll run over there and not run here again.

  261. 261
    hueyplong says:

    @TenguPhule: That’s because even Mr Potter in It’s a Wonderful Life doesn’t take things as far as the Republicans are taking this.

    People who say they aren’t serving their constituents miss the point entirely. Their constituents are not the people who live in their districts. Their constituents are their donors. Not the same people. The two Venn diagrams have so little intersection that it might as well be described as “none.”

  262. 262
    rk says:

    @RoonieRoo:

    I don’t believe her because Roger Stone knew about it before it came out. She is on Sean Hannity’s show. Anyone who goes on Sean Hannity is a morally corrupt SOB. Anyone who associates with Sean Hannity is by default evil. The second woman sounds more believable, but even if it happened as she said, he needs to apologize, but not resign. He said he wants an investigation and there should be one.
    Every harassment claim is not the same. I’ve had men make lewd comments to me and some have come too close for comfort. I never thought they should lose their jobs over it. If you’re an adult you know the difference between inappropriate talk, behavior, harassment and assault. To pretend that everything is all the same is a very stupid quality that liberals have. Things have to change and men have to completely put a stop to this kind of behavior, and I hope the current revelations will lead towards that. But to punish all men in the exact same way, not matter what the accusation is idiotic.

  263. 263
    RoonieRoo says:

    @TenguPhule: You aren’t even worth the energy to converse with. Besides, according to Cacti I’m a Trumpbot. Ha!

  264. 264
    sharl says:

    @Just One More Canuck: who is on Team Manson?

    I’ve seen some of the usual young scamps from Irony/Weird/Joke Twitter take this stance, which may seem shocking if you don’t know their shtick up front. The following is common, and at this point old and trite:

    Manson taught me that it is OK to be weird.

    A slightly newer twist on that:

    Manson taught me that it is not OK to be weird

    And so on. From what I’ve seen today, IMO the creativity from that bunch has been better served by that weird Rand Paul beat-down story out of Bowling Green KY.

  265. 265
  266. 266
    But her emails!!! says:

    @RoonieRoo:

    Did you actually read her story about what happened or did you only read what everyone else says

    Her initial story also states that the picture in question shows Franken grabbing her breasts. It doesn’t, but I’m assuming that she viewed it as humiliating and demeaning and didn’t look at it closely enough to realize that wasn’t the case. I believe her regarding the kiss as well, but here she also seems to indicate that Franken is responsible for the scripted kiss, when it seems likely the skit preexisted this event (e.g., Franken didn’t write it just to get some tongue action going with her). Her feelings and experience are valid, but that doesn’t mean what she’s relaying is 100% accurate when looked at objectively.

  267. 267
    TenguPhule says:

    @hueyplong: And the truly insane thing is their donors are going to be in a shitload of trouble from this bill too. Its like they don’t realize how many moving parts working relatively smoothly together makes their modern decedent lives possible.

    They’re throwing the financial equivalent of the Marcos shoe collection into the biggest collection of gears on earth.

  268. 268
    RoonieRoo says:

    @rk: I don’t think it’s a matter of believing her or not. I don’t have the information to make such a final decision. The fact that you are determining whether or not to believe her story purely on the grounds of a Roger Stone tweet and her political activities is messed up. Why can’t everyone just wait for the panel or whatever it is that congress is doing to do their investigation to happen before tearing people apart?

    Moore’s accuser said that one reason she didn’t come forward sooner was because she had made bad choices in life and she knew that people would use those mistakes or choices against her and not believe her because of it.

  269. 269

    @RoonieRoo: True, TP just seems to like pie alot.

  270. 270
    TenguPhule says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Sure, side with the Purity pony why don’t you.

  271. 271
    TenguPhule says:

    @RoonieRoo:

    I don’t think it’s a matter of believing her or not.

    Purity Now! Purity Forever! //

    That level of thickness can’t be real.

  272. 272
    RoonieRoo says:

    @But her emails!!!: And this I can agree with and I appreciate you saying that while her version might not be accurate to reality it is still a valid for her. Thank you. This is an accurate summation for why I don’t necessarily fall in either the believe her or don’t believe her camp and why I don’t find it helpful for people to go after her in the ways I’ve seen in their defense of Franken.

  273. 273

    @TenguPhule: I don’t think she is a troll, more like a poutrage addict. Last time it was Steve’s feeding habits IIRC.

  274. 274
    RoonieRoo says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: You know, I’ve never really used the pie filter. I think I might just start tonight.

  275. 275
  276. 276
    Kathleen says:

    @amygdala: Wow. I had no idea. Those women pay tuition. They should have access to all resources, classes, faculty they need to learn. That’s not right.

  277. 277
    WaterGirl says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Thank you. That says it all.

  278. 278
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mary G: Me, too.

  279. 279
    WaterGirl says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Yep. I think she’s the person who periodically scolds Cole that his cats are too fat, and those posts have been going on for years.

  280. 280
    RoonieRoo says:

    @WaterGirl: Because his cats are too fat. :) But Cole still loves me as we compare my fat cat with his.

  281. 281
    WaterGirl says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Did you watch the video that Tilda Swintons Bald Cap linked to at #233? She looks pretty comfortable with the sexual fooling around with Robin Williams. I’m fairly certain that USO tours are fairly raunchy, given the environment.

    I have to confess that I don’t think there’s enough “there” there for me to analyze it as much as you are. There are people here that I really like and usually agree with, yet we seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum on this issue. I really have come to think that this is pushing buttons for some people, which makes it not about logic at all.

  282. 282
    Ruckus says:

    @HeleninEire:

    I think that’s because I can’t believe I made it to 55. And she only made it to 37.

    There has never been a time in my life when I thought I’d make this far. Yes about 15 yrs ago I thought it might be possible, but I was still giving the probability of being able to say, I’m 68 way less than even odds.
    I get what you are saying about your mom. But each of us gets our own time. I like that you celebrate the positive, and remember the good times.

  283. 283
    WaterGirl says:

    @RoonieRoo: I was just defending you against the earlier comment regarding your BJ cred.

  284. 284
    Ruckus says:

    @lamh36:
    I wrote the other day that I used to work, rather tangentially, with Leeann Tweeden about 15 yrs ago. We never discussed politics or much more than small talk so I have no idea of her politics, then or now. But she was not what one might call out there, she seemed maybe shy even, even though her job at first was to look pretty. But she was smart and capable, and I doubt she lost that. She wasn’t just a barbie doll, not even close.

  285. 285
    Ruckus says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Wasn’t asking, just making the observation. If a person is holding someone’s butt and thinks that’s the small of their back, there are some serious problems. At hand. So to speak.

  286. 286
    Ruckus says:

    @Emma:
    Stated before, I worked in professional sports. I attended a lot of events a year and talked to a lot of people. On top of that you deal with airline employees, rental car people, restaurant/hotel people…… I had about 500 contacts on my phone. I bet I couldn’t have remembered half of those back when I was working, and those people were ones I had business with at least semi regularly. You see/talk to lots of people every day, they blend into an almost seamless mass of just bodies.

  287. 287
    J R in WV says:

    @HeleninEire:

    Helen, You are a sweet young girl! I’m about to turn 67, and except for the aches in joints and muscles that burn too quickly when I work, I am still, um, well, about 45? How about 50? Would you… no really, about 50. Except for being retired, that’s pretty great!!

    When I come to Ireland, we’ll (that would be my wife with me) take you out to dinner, and I’ll flirt with you, and there will be hugs.

    If you want hugs…

    ;-)

    We can joke about it can’t we? Friends, right?!

  288. 288
    Mnemosyne says:

    @RoonieRoo:

    I’ve been saying from the beginning that the whole “kiss at rehearsal” thing could have been a huge misunderstanding. Someone on DailyKos found a photo of the performance and it’s a big clinch done for comic effect, where he has his arm wrapped around the back of her neck. I could see an inexperienced actress getting a little freaked out by that kind of move in rehearsal while the professional actor thinks it’s no big deal, because he’s done dozens of similar comedic kisses with dozens of other actresses.

    I disbelieve her about the tongue part, but I think there’s a good chance that it’s an unconscious exaggeration on her part and not a deliberate lie.

  289. 289
    J R in WV says:

    @germy:

    “The Georgia Dome”

    I know there’s probably nuance here I’m not aware of, but something about massive, state funded buildings having a life span of 25 years now bothers my inner cheapskate.

    Especially after visiting Italy and France and Spain where buildings from the 1300s are in daily use! Build it strong, keep it maintained, don’t waste money on a new one when the old ones are in good shape. Crazy waste of money going to wealthy construction magnates! Republican construction magnates!

  290. 290

    My current mood this evening. After the insanity of witnessing trump voters praise trump over that of JESUS (/headdesk), I have officially gotten apple cider and am trying to get a buzz right now.

    There *is* alcoholic content in Angry Orchard, right?

  291. 291
    Jake the antisoshul soshulist says:

    @jl:
    Obama nominee who has a vagina.

  292. 292
    Ruckus says:

    @J R in WV:
    You do know that a lot of those old buildings are gutted and rebuilt with only outer shell, which makes the building look like it’s centuries old and all, while the interior is not all that old. OTOH, they did build them pretty hefty long ago over there.
    It’s also not that the usable life span is 25 yrs, it’s the team owner’s desire to look far more successful on someone else’s millions.

  293. 293
    Mnemosyne says:

    @PaulWartenberg:

    Angry Orchard has a higher percentage of alcohol than most beers, so be careful or you’ll be hung over tomorrow.

  294. 294
    rk says:

    @RoonieRoo:

    I don’t think it’s a matter of believing her or not. I don’t have the information to make such a final decision. The fact that you are determining whether or not to believe her story purely on the grounds of a Roger Stone tweet and her political activities is messed up.

    Why is it messed up? We all make judgments on who we believe, and my default position is not to believe anyone who airs grievances on Sean Hannity’s show. I’ve seen more than enough republican stupidity to know that Sean Hannity and Roger Stone are evil idiots with only one agenda: destroy democrats and promote right wing republicans. I saw what Sean Hannity and his ilk did to Shirly Sherod. The only response to Hannity and the filth that comes on his show is to say “Fuck off”. If Democrats can’t learn that then they’re idiots She could have gone to the Washington Post or any other reputable paper. But you choose Hannity only for one reason, that is to find a sympathetic ear for nonsense. So no, I don’t believe her. He may be a groper or worse and such behavior will come out soon enough in today’s climate. But I’m not going to jump on the “off with their heads” bandwagon, based on the the word of right wing thugs.

  295. 295
    J R in WV says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Thanks. It’s really hard. I appreciate your support.

    My wife has been harassed many times, finally sought total disability retirement. Managers yelling at her for standing up for not only herself but the whole national union local. Bosses using derogatory nicknames for her (“The Bod”) behind her back as if she wouldn’t hear it.

    That worked out OK… that manager was transferred to another location. At his retirement party some years later, after wife was elected repeatedly to nationwide union office and hence became pretty well known, people were making remarks during the festivity. One co-worker who knew wife asked “Dean, is it true that you used to call (wife) “The Bod” when you were manager back in WV?” and all reported that the ass turned bright red and left immediately after. [Dean was not his real name.]

    So I know about women and abuse from close up observation. When I became a manager I worked hard to never put a woman I worked with in an uncomfortable position. When I did personal discussions I left the office door open, which was OK because it was pretty private, no one could hear a discussion even with the door open. Annual evaluations, work progress, that kind of thing.

    I believe that no one who worked with me ever felt uncomfortable. With friends I have known for years, I am inclined to be touchy, to hug folks. Some are gay, both men and women, and I hug them pretty much the same. After 20 or 30 years if you can’t tell who wants a hug and who doesn’t you are surely unobservant.

    Last Friday we went to town, a band with several friends was playing at the book shop /art gallery/ coffee shop. Many friends were there, and there was much warm hugging, even with the guys. That’s how we are. It was a great evening, the music was good to start and as the band warmed up and got into their groove, it was better than just good.

    At the end a young woman joined them for their last song – “Those Were the Days, my Friend” and she really has the pipes. Plus everyone in the room knew the song, all the words, clapping and dancing. The warmth and affection was palpable. There’s a huge difference between showing physical affection and creeping a person who doesn’t feel warmth toward you. Unmistakable in my book.

    Personally I think Al Franken is a warm and affectionate person, and “judge” Roy Moore is a despicable creeper. But I’m not going to be able to vote against “judge” Roy. If I thought a bearded guy without the ‘Bama accent would help going door to door I would be there. We have contributed a gob of funding to Dave Jones, though. Hope it helps him crush the creeper next month.

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    JaneSays says:

    @WaterGirl: She did say a word… @WaterGirl: She did say a word:

    She posted “Dude — Al Franken TOTALLY molested me! Creeper!” with the picture, and it’s timestamped from when the photo was taken and posted in 2010.

  297. 297
    Ridnik Chrome says:

    Way late to this thread, but: that video is one case where assaulting a bus driver would be totally justified.

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