You’re Not Helping Brosef

Sitting Ohio state Supreme Court Justice and soon to be former Democratic candidate for Governor Bill O’Neill:

So basically a Supreme Court Justice doesn’t know the difference between consensual sex and sexual assault/harrassment/rape. Awesome.

Heterosexuality needs no defense. It’s quite popular. But as I have said elsewhere, no one is trying to stop you from being heterosexual or a “man” or even a disgusting general pig. If you’re girlfriend or wife wants you to simulate feeling her up while wearing body armor and pretending to be asleep, go fucking crazy. We’re just trying to stop you from inflicting it on uninterested and unwilling others.

305 replies
  1. 1
    rikyrah says:

    Kay,

    What can you tell us about this guy?

  2. 2
    Betty Cracker says:

    Christ Jesus, is this real life?

  3. 3
    Chris says:

    Well, I suppose we should be thanking him for outing himself as an asshole this early in the game.

  4. 4

    Deleted. I re-read it. Fuck this guy.

  5. 5
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    “Consent” is some sort of liberal plot, according to Rush Limbaugh.

    Who seems to think leaving an Andy Jackson on the nightstand is “consent.”

  6. 6
    VincentN says:

    I’m beginning to think that we actually do need classes starting from grade school in what consent means. It apparently is not very clear to a startling number of supposedly functional adults.

  7. 7
    Tim C. says:

    “Heterosexuality needs no defense. It’s quite popular.”

    Can we make this a new tag? It seems like it would fit. Also blog quote of year to me.

  8. 8

    @Betty Cracker: I ask myself this question every fucking day. I’m finding it impossible to answer it in the affirmative.

    (Alternately: Is this just fantasy?)

  9. 9
    trollhattan says:

    “Dear Penthouse Advisor:
    I never thought in a million years I’d be writing you but let me tell you about the redhead and the hayloft…”

    It’s the water.

  10. 10
    John Cole says:

    @VincentN: Good luck with that I can’t even teach people the difference between implied and inferred.

  11. 11
    Fair Economist says:

    Imma thinking some of those encounters weren’t quite up to the ideal of equal and consenting partners and he’s trying to get in front of some revelations. “Disappointed about the national feeding frenzy about sexual indiscrections” implies to me he’s got some indiscretions.

  12. 12
    Doug! says:

    Whether it’s the president of the United States bragging about sexual assault on Access Hollywood or some random Democrat from Ohio bragging about his sex life on Facebook, both sides have a problem here.

  13. 13
    bystander says:

    Jeffrey Tambor? Who next? Please not Richard Kind.

  14. 14
    Jeffro says:

    One of the commenters on his FB page starts off with “Thank you, Wilt Chamberlain, but consent between adults is different from sexual assault and victimization especially by people in positions of power. What is wrong with you?”

    LOL @ ‘Wilt Chamberlain’ (I probably would have gone with ‘Gene Simmons’ but hey) and NOT LOL at the rest.

  15. 15
    PhoenixRising says:

    This is the EDITED post, for context. In the original, which I may have hurt myself laughing at, the grammar and punctuation errors suggest that Bill O’Neill and Senator Bob Taft (senior) had a redheaded stepchild after a passionate dalliance in a barn in Gallipolis.

    Of course, this ain’t funny, because it suggests that the problem with sexual harassment is the ‘sex’ not the ‘harassment’. Conflates ‘sex’ with ‘assault’. Etc.

    But y’all, trust me, the assault on the Enlish language that he committed before editing to remove personal details about the first and last women he’s had relations with…that was funny. In that it took a fast pivot from ‘hetereosexual’ to Bob Taft.

    Remember, punctuation matters! ‘Lets eat Grandma’ vs Let’s eat, Grandma!’

  16. 16
    Jeffro says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Actually, he’s probably never left a tip on the nightstand; if he has, it certainly wasn’t a twenty.

  17. 17
    MJS says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: It’s always funny when Rush pretends to be attracted to adult women.

  18. 18
    scav says:

    Apparently, for a goodly number of men, there simply are no relationships with women that do not involve force / coercion: such relationships are, quite bluntly, unimaginable and clearly an affront to how God designed the world and the foundations of civilized culture!

  19. 19
    La Caterina (Mrs. Johannes) says:

    @John Cole: “you’re” should be “your” /pedant

  20. 20
    PhoenixRising says:

    seconding the call for Blog Quote of the year:

    Heterosexuality needs no defense. It’s quite popular.

  21. 21
  22. 22
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Worried that you chose the unpopular?

  23. 23
    trollhattan says:

    One more from the Boys will be Boys file.

  24. 24
    LurkerNoLonger says:

    Interesting pitch to voters. “Vote for me, I’ve bagged more broads than you.”

  25. 25

    @Gin & Tonic: I’ve never been worried about choosing something unpopular!

  26. 26
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Amusing.

    You all really don’t get it, do you? Contrast how Franken is being treated to Moore and Trump. The lesson to learn from this for the cynic; you will screw up sooner or later and it’s better to be a brazen about it because then no one has the guts to confront you. And now there is Bill O’Neill.

  27. 27
    MomSense says:

    Oh FFS.

  28. 28
    PhoenixRising says:

    Maybe Bill should get with State Rep. Wes Goodman, that family values Christian from Upper Sandusky, who has resigned after being confronted with evidence that he was sexing up a fellow in his office at the capitol.

    They might have a refreshing little chat about whether heterosexuality is in danger of going out of style, and how you know which expressions of your desires are immoral (because someone gets hurt /didn’t agree to it), vs being prohibited by a fairy tale dictated to Bronze Age shepherds.

    http://www.dispatch.com/news/2.....ers-ouster

  29. 29
    Bill says:

    We’re just trying to stop you from inflicting it on uninterested and unwilling others.

    This

  30. 30
    Garbo says:

    Were all these very attractive women, including the gorgeous blonde and redhead, from Canada by any chance?

  31. 31
    mai naem mobile says:

    Seriously I wish I was in a situation where I can go off to Papua New Guinea and search for some long lost tribe and come back in five years. I don’t even care if it’s a cannibalistic tribe. 2017 is so fucking stressful.

  32. 32

    Yeah, I’m guessing this guy’s run is now over.

    Scratch that. I’m hoping his run is over.

  33. 33
    JanieM says:

    “First true love”? Implying that there were more “true loves” after that? A max of 49 more, anyhow. But no true love worthy of being a life partner? Or maybe *interested* in being a life partner? (I’m single myself, I’m not ragging on single people. It’s just the general stupidity of the thing.)

    I’ve driven a lot of back roads in Ohio. I can’t imagine how he thinks bragging about having slept with 50 women is going to fly with the “signs with Bible quotes in the front yard” crowd.

  34. 34
    Mike J says:

    @John Cole:

    Good luck with that I can’t even teach people the difference between implied and inferred.

    How about you’re and your?

  35. 35
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    Most judges are stone fucking morons with delusions of adequacy, regardless of level or party. Everyone knows this.

  36. 36

    @JanieM:

    I’ve driven a lot of back roads in Ohio.

    Is that what they’re calling it nowadays.

  37. 37
    JanieM says:

    @PhoenixRising:

    This is the EDITED post, for context. In the original, which I may have hurt myself laughing at, the grammar and punctuation errors suggest that Bill O’Neill and Senator Bob Taft (senior) had a redheaded stepchild after a passionate dalliance in a barn in Gallipolis.

    Got a screenshot? That would be fun to see.

  38. 38
    The Moar You Know says:

    I’m beginning to think that we actually do need classes starting from grade school in what consent means.

    @VincentN: My wife is a high school teacher. I know you’re kind of joking here. But we in fact do need such classes, and they need to start in kindergarten or first grade at the latest. No joke. By the time the kids hit junior high it’s a huge and completely unacknowledged problem – because they truly have no idea what “consent” means or why it’s important. At all.

  39. 39
    Garbo says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I guess ‘hiking the Appalachian Trail’ has been phased out,

  40. 40
    Tom Levenson says:

    @John Cole: I want to marry this comment.

  41. 41
    sharl says:

    Isn’t Richard Cordray expected to run for Ohio governor (as a Dem)? Or is that another office?

    ETA: Yep, he’s expected to run for Governor.

  42. 42
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Most judges are stone fucking morons with delusions of adequacy, regardless of level or party. Everyone knows this.

    You’re a state court guy, right? I’m always in federal, and it is a big step up. Or was until trump started nominating bloggers.

  43. 43
  44. 44
    lgerard says:

    @PhoenixRising:

    Wes Goodman was the former director of the Conservative Action Project

    Who knew it was that kind of action?

  45. 45
    chris says:

    @JanieM: This might work. https://twitter.com/eheisig/status/931569176338141185

    Edit: Yes it does. Also his campaign chief quit as soon as he read it.

  46. 46
    Jeffro says:

    @Garbo: I’m dyin’ here…

  47. 47

    That Scalzi article nailed it:

    Dudes, don’t be a harassing piece of shit, don’t accept other dudes being harassing pieces of shit, and when women (and others) tell you that someone has harassed or assaulted them, believe them.

    This is all pretty simple. And yet.

    And yet indeed…

  48. 48
    Jeffro says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Ok now I’m REALLY dyin’ here…

  49. 49
    Fair Economist says:

    @The Moar You Know: Intensifying the need for early training in what consent is and why it matters is the frighteningly early exposure to media depictions of sexual activity children get these days. My son and his friends were discussing porn production details in late elementary school. He didn’t see it at home but I know most of the other parents had weak or no parental controls on their internet connections – because they asked us how to do it.

  50. 50
    Steve in the ATL says:

    If anyone is up for a St. Louis meet up, I’ll be at Mike Shannon’s in terminal 1 of the airport for the next half hour or so!

  51. 51
    Kirtaf says:

    It amazes me how many people seem to miss the main point. It’s not about consensual sexual encounters between adults. If you are both adults and both willing then go for it, have fun! Just don’t make sexual advances on someone who is not interested in that contact. It’s really not a hard concept is it? If all of your sexual experiences were with willing partners and you never groped or harassed anyone who wasn’t into it then you’re good. If, however, you forced your attentions in any way on someone who didn’t welcome them, you’re not good. What Franken did was bad because the woman didn’t consent to his behavior. What Trump did was even worse because he made a habit of it and went much further and included young girls. What Moore did was reprehensible because he used his power and standing against underage girls who didn’t want his attentions. What Weinstein did was horrendous because he violated women and then used his power to keep them quiet about it. What you and your willing adult partner do is fine. How is this a difficult concept?

  52. 52
    Fair Economist says:

    @Kirtaf: The concept isn’t complicated, but it does seem a lot of people confuse non-consensual sexual activity with consensual activity they don’t like.

  53. 53
    JanieM says:

    @chris: Thanks, chris.

    And it’s not just the incompetent writing, he identified where these women worked…..and bragged about that, too.

    The rampant stupidity makes me wonder how come the world hasn’t just collapsed in on itself before now.

  54. 54
    The Moar You Know says:

    Intensifying the need for early training in what consent is and why it matters is the frighteningly early exposure to media depictions of sexual activity children get these days. My son and his friends were discussing porn production details in late elementary school. He didn’t see it at home but I know most of the other parents had weak or no parental controls on their internet connections – because they asked us how to do it.

    @Fair Economist: And boys are harassing girls for blowjobs and worse in elementary school. And unlike pre-internet me in elementary school, they know exactly what it is they’re asking for. So the training really needs to start as early as possible.

  55. 55
    Scamp Dog says:

    @(((CassandraLeo))): …caught in a landslide!

  56. 56
    TenguPhule says:

    I predict he’s sewn up the white male vote in Ohio.

  57. 57
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kirtaf:

    What Franken “allegedly” did was bad because the woman didn’t consent to his behavior.

    Corrected for fucking accuracy.

    People, stop presuming he’s guilty based on one tasteless photo and the word of a FOX PUPPET.

  58. 58
    trollhattan says:

    @sharl:
    Especially since the path looks all tidied up for him now.

  59. 59
    ruemara says:

    @The Moar You Know: I’m working on an article on consent, because people truly DO NOT UNDERSTAND CONSENT. men and women. And the funny thing is, the more you’re connected with people, the more likely you are to broach consent.

  60. 60
    PhoenixRising says:

    @JanieM: I’m not willing to promote the original, which may seem like I’m bogarting all the laughing, but honest to Dog those women have children and families now, and it’s not cool to have a pack of reporters or Twitter Warriors descend on their current countertops.

    Senator Bob Taft (senior) who may have been connected to one of them in a fashion that could have used a preposition to clarify who was dallying in the barn, OTOH, I have no mercy on. He’s dead, for one thing.

    Prepositions. Not propositions. Can’t believe I have to say this.

  61. 61
    trollhattan says:

    Is Cheryl in the house? This looks like something she could dig into for us non-techies.

    The tiny nation of Denmark has just three stations for monitoring atmospheric radiation. Each week, scientists change out air filters in the detectors and take the used ones to a technical university near Copenhagen. There, Sven Poul Nielsen and other researchers analyze the filters. They often snag small amounts of naturally occurring radioactivity, radon for example.

    Then about a month ago, Nielsen was startled to find something far stranger: a radioactive isotope known as ruthenium-106.

    Ruthenium-106 has a half-life of just one year, which means that it isn’t naturally found on Earth. It is, however, created in the glowing cores of nuclear reactors — and usually only detected in the atmosphere when something goes terribly wrong. The ruthenium was detected far beyond Denmark. It showed up all across Europe, from Cyprus to Spain. The levels seen in dozens of nations were far too low to pose a health risk. Within weeks, the thin cloud had vanished.

    So far, no nation has announced a recent nuclear incident or accident involving ruthenium-106. But some Western scientists say they suspect the source might have been a Russian research institute near the city of Dimitrovgrad, west of the Ural Mountains. The reason for their suspicion comes down to atmospheric calculations and the type of work being done at the facility, known as the Research Institute of Atomic Reactors.

    Asked about activity at RIAR in the past six months, spokeswoman Anna Volkova told NPR by email that no incidents had occurred at the facility and that “ruthenium was not produced in that period.” Russian atomic energy officials have previously said there has been nothing unusual detected at any of their nation’s nuclear facilities.

    Nothing to be seeing here, now moving along let us, shall we?

  62. 62
    MJS says:

    @TenguPhule: And I predict your prediction is wrong. He’s a Democrat.

  63. 63
    martian says:

    I guess this manly blithering means we’re full on into the pushback against #MeToo. This Franken thing has been a shitshow with so many on our side taking a turn at handwaving away accusations and slutshaming an accuser. A woman’s titties appearing perky and unashamed in the light of day apparently proves something something arglebargleblaaaahhhh. Finally, something both sides can agree on!

    Is Roger Stone ratfucking us again? Almost certainly! But he can use true things to do that, folks. Elliot Spitzer really did patronize call girls. Franken did the right thing asking for an inquiry. Can we not keep our poop in a pile and wait to see how this shakes out? I’m hoping like hell that Franken can clear himself, I am under no illusions about the potential ratfucking, but people we like/admire/are counting on are going to go down and deservedly, so we’d best prepare.

  64. 64
    opiejeanne says:

    @The Moar You Know: I’m 67. I was harrassed for a blow job in 7th grade. I only had a vague idea what it was. I was 12. The teacher (male) heard him and laughed.
    The following year a kid in my math class took his penis out through a hole in his pocket and showed it to me and another girl near the back of the room. I was 13. I had no idea who to complain to since the math teacher was quietly having a nervous breakdown about then.

  65. 65
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    And now this:

    WAIT, WHAT?
    A Twitter Account With Two Fake IDs Accused a Democrat of Assault. Then Pro-Trump Sites Ran With It.

    Link

  66. 66
    Anonymous At Work says:

    @Fair Economist: There’s an extra layer in there you are missing. There’s consensual stuff that they did not like, there’s non-consensual stuff but in between there’s stuff where they didn’t say “No” but did not say “Yes” to. That’s the problem, is figuring out the line between “regret after the fact” and “soft coercion before the fact”. And I don’t know an easy answer.
    All that said, any reports that the 50 women weren’t consensual or in any way out of bounds? I get “clueless idiot” but does it extend beyond that?

  67. 67
    opiejeanne says:

    @opiejeanne: Annnd my comment is in moderation, probably for using the pe.nis word.

  68. 68
    Cacti says:

    @TenguPhule:

    People, stop presuming he’s guilty based on one tasteless photo and the word of a FOX PUPPET.

    You can’t have justice unless the accusation and the accuser are scrutinized along with the accused. But that’s not popular these days with the tribe.

    “All women should be believed!”

  69. 69
    realbtl says:

    This shit starts early. About 10 years ago I was involved professionally with underage substance abuse and something like 1/3 of 18-24 yo males said it was ok to have sex with an incapacitated/passed out partner. This made for a very uncomfortable conversation with my daughter when she went off to college.

  70. 70
    PhoenixRising says:

    @ruemara: Right! as in, I suspect Bill didn’t have the consent of the last woman he described here to give her physical description and employment information to…the internet.

    But just as he didn’t think of that, he didn’t think about whether ‘we both had a great time’ is harassment.

  71. 71
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @PhoenixRising:

    Fail. It still should be let’s in your first “Lets eat Grandma.”

    Five yards and loss of down.

  72. 72
    Aleta says:

    What gives him the right to speak on behalf of all heterosexual males? This supreme judge thing must have gone to his head. But as long as he’s “speaking for others” (which sounds more like bragging in the sauna about winning ) why only het males? Dark pasts lit up by sensual discoveries in hay occur throughout the spectrum! And where the fuck did his logical judge mind go after that? He must be smoking while drunk on the job.

  73. 73
    Kay says:

    OMG what an idiot. He won’t be the Democratic nominee for governor though and he was never going to be even before he wrote this.

  74. 74
    Fair Economist says:

    @Anonymous At Work:

    There’s an extra layer in there you are missing. There’s consensual stuff that they did not like, there’s non-consensual stuff but in between there’s stuff where they didn’t say “No” but did not say “Yes” to.

    That’s not consensual either. Yes I know there’s nonverbal consent, but there needs to be some kind of definitive “yes” or it’s not consensual. It’s not as much of a moral violation to proceed without a clear “yes” as to proceed against a clear “no” – but it’s not consensual.

  75. 75
    Elie says:

    I just assume that there will be chaos around the issue of harassment for the foreseeable future and that it will cut across many lines. What all this does is provide squid ink for the Trumpites and others with dark motives. Hopefully we don’t unintentionally harm ourselves during this period or any of the victims of this treatment. Alan Silverman warned us of the backlash to come….

  76. 76
    Baud says:

    Baud! 2020!: This one time, at band camp…

  77. 77
    TenguPhule says:

    @martian:

    and slutshaming an accuser.

    Fuck off. Anyone working for FOX as a talking head of bullshit automatically gets their credibility questioned unless they have overwhelming evidence otherwise.

  78. 78
    TenguPhule says:

    @Elie:

    Hopefully we don’t unintentionally harm ourselves during this period or any of the victims of this treatment.

    The voice of optimism over experience.

  79. 79
  80. 80
    Fair Economist says:

    @realbtl:

    This shit starts early. About 10 years ago I was involved professionally with underage substance abuse and something like 1/3 of 18-24 yo males said it was ok to have sex with an incapacitated/passed out partner.

    My son picked up an odd rule from his social group on consent with intoxication. Their rule is it’s only OK to hit on someone who’s drunk/stoned/whatever if you are also drunk/stoned/whatever. Not quite right, but I tend to look on the bright side of things and I was glad there was at least some attempt to tackle the concept of “proper consent”.

  81. 81
    Kay says:

    Also, I once helped in one of his (losing) campaigns. His issue was campaign finance reform! I had no idea he was such an asshole!

    Anyway. So much for that.

  82. 82
    Anonymous At Work says:

    @Fair Economist: No, I agree. I was trying to draw attention to the difference between “do not like” and “did not like”. Consent is ongoing and a process but very much applies to “before” and “during”. The trouble is distinguishing non-consensual “before” and “during”, especially when no affirmative statement is given, from “after”, for whatever reason.

  83. 83
    LurkerNoLonger says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Russian or right-wing troll? Hard to distinguish between the two lately.

  84. 84
    TenguPhule says:

    @Anonymous At Work:

    All that said, any reports that the 50 women weren’t consensual or in any way out of bounds? I get “clueless idiot” but does it extend beyond that?

    No.

    Not that this is stopping all the jump before they look usual suspects from charging full speed ahead.

  85. 85
    martian says:

    @Anonymous At Work: This is what affirmative consent is about. The standard shouldn’t be “no means no” but rather “yes means yes”. It’s been talked about by feminists for years, but I don’t think it’s gotten too far culturally yet.

    This is part of how I approach things with my kids. And teaching about consent begins way before sex ed. It’s wrapped up in teaching bodily autonomy and respect for boundaries from the start as a foundation. There are a bunch of current parenting trends regarding this.

  86. 86
    TenguPhule says:

    Let’s see.

    We’ve gone from condemning pedophilia to condemnation of questionable circumstances possible sexual harassment to condemnation of an apparently long and varied history of as far as he we know consensual sexual activity.

    Meanwhile, Republicans are trying to steal everything not nailed down and kill us all.

    Do I have that right?

    /Golf Clap

  87. 87
    Aleta says:

    @ruemara: I’m thinking written exams, 30 to 100 questions that cover all kinds of situations, so people can experience ambiguity, thinking something through, getting some wrong, on paper first. Multiple choice, fill in the blanks, essays, draw lines between person A and the door, whatever.

  88. 88
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @scav: See Doug Wilson, preacher from Idaho, some years ago. He stated that intercourse was the male penetrating and subduing the female. He went on to say that many of our society’s problems are the result of corrupted feminists refusing to acknowledge this ‘god-given natural order.’

    Wilson is a leader in his denomination, has a school (and IIRC a college). He has written a book about how good blacks had it during slavery.

    And, as if we needed more, he counselled a man found guilty of child molestation and decided the man had repented. Wilson then advised a young woman in his congregation to marry that man. Now the couple has at least 1 child, and a judge has forbidden the man to be alone with his child.

    Herbert Mehta at patheos has had several posts about Wilson.

  89. 89
    Aleta says:

    @TenguPhule: exactly right. All roads lead to right wing hell.

  90. 90
    eemom says:

    Heterosexuality needs no defense. It’s quite popular.

    All Sexualities Matter

  91. 91
    Elie says:

    @TenguPhule:

    key word here is hope. Do you ever “hope” for anything? Would you wish for harm to occur?

    No, nevermind. Your purpose is to shed doom and gloom and opine that bad outcomes cannot be avoided.

  92. 92
    Baud says:

    @Aleta: Oooh. I’d like to take that exam.

  93. 93
    barbequebob says:

    @Fair Economist: well, that’s just what you’re inferring from it

  94. 94
    TenguPhule says:

    @Elie: Look at this thread and the prior threads.

    I’m one of those trying to argue for a little rationality here and not to commit political suicide.

    Guess what, WE’RE NOT WINNING.

  95. 95
    Emma says:

    @Cacti: Well, I begin by assuming she’s telling the truth. But I also assume that the accused has a right to defend him/herself before we start ruining his/her life.

    I think every woman has had that friend who at first appears near perfect. And then you start noticing the crazy in the eyes. Or the lies. And after a while you start doubting yourself as well as others (did I really say that? could he really have done that?). And then the accusations start flying and you sit there and hope to God to survive the storm.

    In situations when a person’s whole life is at stake I prefer to make sure someone is telling the truth. Even in cases when I personally believe they are.

  96. 96
    martian says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Fuck you. People are posting nudes of her like it has some bearing on her credibility. Talking in insinuating ways about her being a Hooters Girl and a Playboy pinup. Fuck off forever if you can’t get why that is a problem separate from whether or not she’s a political operative.

  97. 97
    Aleta says:

    @Anonymous At Work: Yeah he’s left himself wide open to that, unless he can counter with proof they were imaginary.

  98. 98
    eemom says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Hey, don’t forget Bill Clinton! We gotta get on board with Senator Gillibrand and demand that he retroactively resign or nobody’s EVER gonna take us seriously again.

  99. 99
    debit says:

    @TenguPhule: No, you fuck off. You don’t get to slut shame without pushback. And why do I have keep pointing out there was a picture? No, he wasn’t touching her breasts. He didn’t have to. The picture was demeaning and horrible and I don’t care if it was Nancy Fucking Grace that he was “honk honk” ing.

  100. 100
    Elie says:

    @TenguPhule:

    You are right about that.

    sigh

  101. 101
    quakerinabasement says:

    Doesn’t really WANT to win that election, apparently.

  102. 102
    TenguPhule says:

    @martian: None of the regulars here are jumping on that bandwagon, fuckwad. You’re trying lump us in with the fucking trolls. We’re questioning her authenticity based on what she fucking does for a living, which is lie.

  103. 103
    Kitty says:

    Bill O’Neill is the ONLY Democrat on the Ohio Supreme Court. That said, he went on a ridiculous rant about kneeling football players (against). He’s pro-marijuana, solar power, and increased mental health care. But he’s a bit of a loose cannon.

  104. 104
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @trollhattan:

    The tiny nation of Denmark [. . .].

    WTF? Denmark is bigger than Belgium or the Netherlands, and you don’t hear people calling them tiny countries.

    Off to MapFight (one of my favorite sites).

  105. 105
    Baud says:

    @Kitty: He seems like he could use some weed and mental health care.

  106. 106
    Felonius Monk says:

    Bill O’Neill is 70 years old. His humping redheads in the hay loft days are pretty much over. Let the old guy have a few fond memories.

  107. 107
    germy says:

    So Chris Christie didn’t fetch McDonald’s for dolt45.

    Sam Nunberg, a former Trump aide, told me he made up the story to embarrass Christie—and that it spread like wildfire. “The sad reality is that it was believable,” Nunberg said, chuckling.

    I’m not sure why he’s chuckling. They’re proud of being liars?

  108. 108
    Aleta says:

    @martian: Good to keep in mind that this was always out there for use against Franken– the photo, as well as some other videos of him joking about rape, child rape, and probably other stories for the asking. I don’t think he was taken by surprise when it finally showed up. I think they’ve had it prepared long before now.

    It’s past time to start talking about Clarence Thomas.

  109. 109
    Steve in the ATL says:

    Circular firing squads FTW! Proud to be a democrat!

  110. 110
    Baud says:

    @Felonius Monk: That sounded … wistful.

  111. 111
    mike in dc says:

    “all women should be believed” means you take the allegations at face value and view them in the light most favorable to the accuser. It doesn’t mean further inquiry is forbidden.

  112. 112
    TenguPhule says:

    @debit: What slutshaming? The accusation was made about commenters here and other then a fucking troll or two, the sides were split on believing her and questioning her based on the available evidence of her being a Republican who works for FOX News.

  113. 113
    quakerinabasement says:

    Also: “The dogs of war” are “calling for the head of Senator Al Franken”?

    I’d vote against the guy just for the mangled metaphor. Dogs calling for heads. Sheesh.

  114. 114
    Kitty says:

    @Baud: True! He doesn’t have a chance in hell of being elected governor and even if he’s a little crazy I’d hate to see 7 Republicans on bench.

  115. 115
    TenguPhule says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Circular firing squads FTW! Proud to be a democrat!

    At this point I’m considering welcoming our new Iranian Overlords.

  116. 116

    Fun thread.

    I just finished drawing a very special Thanksgiving edition of my comic and decided to peek my head in here.

    I guess I’ll go read Stephen King now.

  117. 117
    Baud says:

    @Steve in the ATL: The firing squad is oblong, you sell out!

  118. 118
    eemom says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Circular firing squads FTW! Proud to be a democrat!

    Circular firing squads survived by a few lemmings who thereafter race each other to the edge of the cliff in a mad frenzy to be the first to leap into the waiting maws of the sharks below.

  119. 119
    debbie says:

    @Kay:

    Just now, I was nuking my dinner when this came on the news. I swear I banged my head on the counter a couple times. I cannot believe this asshole. What was he thinking???

  120. 120

    @debbie: This is how bros think, even lefty/liberal bros.

  121. 121
    debit says:

    @TenguPhule:

    TenguPhule says:
    November 17, 2017 at 5:37 pm

    @martian:

    and slutshaming an accuser.

    Fuck off. Anyone working for FOX as a talking head of bullshit automatically gets their credibility questioned unless they have overwhelming evidence otherwise.

    It reads to me like you’re saying she’s fair game because she works for Fox. If that wasn’t what you meant, I apologize.

  122. 122
    Colleeniem says:

    @TenguPhule: I’m so with you on this. Holy Crap, context matters!!

  123. 123
  124. 124
    Emma says:

    I have a question and I do mean this seriously, no sarcasm, no evil intentions. When do the statute of limitations run out on someone being an arse? Because I’ve known a fair number of men who went from utter jerks in college to quite acceptable human beings in their later years. Women too, for that matter. Am I supposed to simply ignore the growth and hold them responsible for something stupid they did or said twenty years ago? And yes, it does apply to Franken. Back in 2006 he was a comedian and a jerk. He has grown into a liberal warrior and seems to be doing one hell of a job. IF it is true that he no longer engages in offensive behavior, are we supposed to throw away someone like that?

    Because in those circumstances the only people we would be able to field as candidates are Trappist monks or perfect liars.

  125. 125
    martian says:

    @Cacti: American culture doesn’t do nuance. “All women should be believed” is the equal and opposite pushback against all women being disbelieved, dismissed, having their experiences minimized. And since the rate of false report for sex crimes is about the same as for any other crime, it is true the vast majority of the time. Believing has less collateral damage than disbelieving.

    We’ll see how things go now that the Republicans appear to be weaponizing #MeToo, though.

  126. 126
    debbie says:

    @JanieM:

    I can’t imagine how he thinks bragging about having slept with 50 women is going to fly with the “signs with Bible quotes in the front yard” crowd.

    It may not hurt Moore in Alabama.

  127. 127
    Aleta says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): thanks for map fight ! Good use might be subduing conservatives at thanksgiving with questions that bias can’t answer.

  128. 128
    TenguPhule says:

    @Colleeniem: You know things have gone insane when I’m becoming one of the proponents for people to calm the fuck down and think a little bit.

  129. 129

    @debbie: Well, with Moore it’s 50 GIRLS.

  130. 130
    Colleeniem says:

    @Emma: As I said down thread, I’m never searching again for saints. Can’t we at least have a standard of: What have you done for me lately?

  131. 131
    Felonius Monk says:

    @Baud:

    That sounded … wistful.

    Yes it did.

  132. 132
    Cain says:

    What about two dildos and a wet swimsuit-sexuality?

  133. 133
    martian says:

    @TenguPhule:
    You are flat wrong that there has been no slutshaming here. And I wasn’t limiting my comment to the people here, asshole, feel free to point out where I did.

  134. 134
    TenguPhule says:

    @martian:

    And since the rate of false report for sex crimes is about the same as for any other crime, it is true the vast majority of the time.

    Based on recent history, they tend to skew Republican.

    Lying liars and the deluded do not get a credibility pass based on their gender.

  135. 135
  136. 136
  137. 137
    debbie says:

    @martian:

    All the anti-Trump FB groups on my feed have plastered photos and condemned with every word in the book. These are the same groups who rise in fury whenever they come across anyone who says anything against Clinton. This country is losing its mind.

  138. 138
    debit says:

    @Emma: I see what you’re saying. Certainly no one is perfect. I do, however, think that we should hold people who would hold a position of power to a higher standard. Franken fucked up and now he’s paying for it.

    Obama managed to have a team that, while not perfect, at least didn’t have skeletons waiting to pop up and run the news cycle, so I assume there are people out there who somehow got through life without being assholes.

  139. 139
    geg6 says:

    @Fair Economist:

    Like what I keep saying in the previous thread.

  140. 140
    Doug R says:

    @PhoenixRising: Don’t get me started on shoots and leaves.

  141. 141
    sharculese says:

    @VincentN:

    That’s what the comprehensive sex ed curriculum is supposed to be. We start by teaching the young ones about bad touches and personal space and fold in other stuff as they’re old enough to handle it. But, unfortunately, we can’t do that without someone claiming that we’re teaching masturbation to kindergarteners.

  142. 142
    ruemara says:

    @debit: Uh, I believe women first and I also think someone who’s a rightwing mouthpiece needs to have extra scrutiny. Have you been in America the past 30 years? I’ve watched honor used to knife people in the back. I don’t hold it past them to take a skit she full well knew she was participating in and come up with just enough of a smear to destroy a very (surprisingly) effective congressman who’s lived up to Paul Wellstone’s legacy in ways Keith Ellison has yet to. This is a war in America without actual gunfire. It’s time for Dems to understand that the co-option of the language of Civil Rights to establish fascism will not be the only thing that’s co-opted.

  143. 143
    debbie says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Driving home I listened to interviews with Alabamian (?) women voters. Moore may just squeak through.

  144. 144
    trollhattan says:

    @germy:
    They’re proud of being effective liars.

  145. 145
    TenguPhule says:

    @martian:

    I guess this manly blithering means we’re full on into the pushback against #MeToo. This Franken thing has been a shitshow with so many on our side taking a turn at handwaving away accusations and slutshaming an accuser. A woman’s titties appearing perky and unashamed in the light of day apparently proves something something arglebargleblaaaahhhh. Finally, something both sides can agree on!

    You want to make general accusations, put up or shut up. Which Democratic reps are slutshaming her? Which organizations? Prominent Democratic individuals? Which Media?

    Or was it words on a blog?

  146. 146
    debbie says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    This society is doomed, just doomed.

  147. 147
    Brachiator says:

    @Emma:

    I have a question and I do mean this seriously, no sarcasm, no evil intentions. When do the statute of limitations run out on someone being an arse? Because I’ve known a fair number of men who went from utter jerks in college to quite acceptable human beings in their later years. Women too, for that matter. Am I supposed to simply ignore the growth and hold them responsible for something stupid they did or said twenty years ago? And yes, it does apply to Franken. Back in 2006 he was a comedian and a jerk.

    How old was he in 2006? Let’s see. 55. That ain’t a kid or an adolescent. But your question is a fair one. Social media seems to encourage punishment as the only reaction to these things. It is the court of public opinion run amok. And manipulated by the usual suspects.

    The Republicans, and morons, seem to want to lead reaction of every case into total condemnation, even though they then want to find ways to excuse or ignore people like Moore. Or Trump. I call bullshit.

    But I note that I’ve been worn down by the unending stream of accusations and revelations. I have not read much about the Franken situation, but saw that he apologized and that the woman involved in at least one incident accepted his apology. And what he did did not seem as egregious as other cases. This is not to excuse him, but some context seems to be in order.

    Of course, an easy solution would be for every man who has ever been or ever could be accused of anything to resign and replaced by a woman. I only partly jest.

  148. 148
    Cacti says:

    @martian:

    American culture doesn’t do nuance. “All women should be believed” is the equal and opposite pushback against all women being disbelieved, dismissed, having their experiences minimized. And since the rate of false report for sex crimes is about the same as for any other crime, it is true the vast majority of the time. Believing has less collateral damage than disbelieving.

    Yeah, still not onboard with the presumption of guilt until proven innocent.

  149. 149
    Colleeniem says:

    @TenguPhule: I know! I’m not trying to minimize the alleged assault, having been a victim on a VERY similar situation, but I could not believe the speed at which we went to DEFCON one over Franken. Good lord, at least have some arbitration first. Yikes!

  150. 150
    martian says:

    @Aleta:
    Yeah, I’m sure there’s a thick oppo file on Franken. And he seemed to think himself at one point, that there was too much to overcome for a presidential run. All behind the scenes stuff on him has always had him as one of the good guys, though, and I actually think that’s probably true.

  151. 151
    TenguPhule says:

    @debit: I’m not saying that. I’m willing to entertain that her accusations could be true, but I refuse to automatically accept them based solely on her word and a tasteless photograph that does not confirm her story. Better evidence is required.

    She gets a higher bar because she lies for a living.

  152. 152
    trollhattan says:

    @eemom:
    “I survived the Bowling Green MassacreCircular Firing Squad.”

  153. 153
    Emma says:

    @Brachiator: Historically speaking, women in power have been no better than men. Unfortunately.

  154. 154
    debit says:

    @ruemara: I don’t think the kiss is the issue, at least not for me. It’s the picture. And there’s no disputing that.

  155. 155

    @debbie: Wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

  156. 156
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @debbie: Lost its mind.

  157. 157

    @trollhattan: Rand Paul survived the bowling green tackle.

  158. 158
    trollhattan says:

    @martian:
    I find it weird as hell Norm Coleman didn’t turn this up. Guess he never brought his A-game even though he had a year to do so.

  159. 159
    TenguPhule says:

    @Brachiator: Trump has condemned Franken and said nothing about Moore other then “let the Alabama voters decide”. And the media has given him a pass on that.

    Judge a man by his enemies.

  160. 160
    TenguPhule says:

    @debit:

    And there’s no disputing that.

    But plenty of dispute as to what it means.

  161. 161

    @debit: He was a comedian, they push boundaries, it’s the nature of the business. That said, it was a bad “joke”. The way a comedian usually learns a joke is bad is usually not getting laughs. This one isn’t getting laughs.

  162. 162
    Baud says:

    @debbie: Maybe, but don’t trust the media to give a Fair representation of the electorate.

  163. 163
    Cacti says:

    @TenguPhule:

    I’m not saying that. I’m willing to entertain that her accusations could be true, but I refuse to automatically accept them based solely on her word and a tasteless photograph that does not confirm her story. Better evidence is required.

    She gets a higher bar because she lies for a living.

    The companion slogan to “All women should be believed,” that no one wants to come right out and say is “All men should be disbelieved”.

    I wonder why? Does it make the tribe uncomfortable?

  164. 164
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Kitty:

    He’s pro-marijuana, solar power, and increased mental health care. But he’s a bit of a loose cannon.

    LOL! Given what I’ve read about what he wrote, I’m starting to think that may well be the understatement of the year!

  165. 165
    TenguPhule says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    …or 50 dead girls.

    Haven’t checked his backyard yet.

  166. 166
    Emma says:

    @debit: Obama seems to be sui generis. And they still showered him in excrement every chance they got. Several people under him ended up leaving his organization through accusations, IIRC. Van Jones was certainly driven out for saying something that, dammit, was completely true. So, again, we’re down to Trappist monks or perfect liars.

  167. 167
    eclare says:

    @TenguPhule: Whoever said Republicans know if they do not win, they don’t get what they want had it right. May have been you.

  168. 168
    Felonius Monk says:

    @trollhattan:

    Guess he never brought his A-game

    There is no credible evidence that Norm Coleman has anything resembling an A-game.

  169. 169
    TenguPhule says:

    @debit:

    No, he wasn’t touching her breasts. He didn’t have to. The picture was demeaning and horrible and I don’t care if it was Nancy Fucking Grace that he was “honk honk” ing.

    She’s claiming he touched. He’s denying.

    Currently I find him more credible.

    And yes, IT MATTERS whether or not he actually touched her because if she lied about this part she could also be lying about the rest of her story.

  170. 170
    ruemara says:

    @debit: I have more of a problem with the kiss than the picture. I said consent gets hazy when people are connected. This was juvenile but a picture of a pretend boob honking is worse than someone shoving their tongue in your mouth? I swear people just got born. And as I said, since the picture has two different stories about it, why are we rushing to condemn him without more information. This isn’t cut and dried and we needed much more information before we get all, “Women must all be believed” or “She’s a slut and should be pilloried”. There’s good reason to be skeptical of her and there’s good reason to wish he’d had another idea before either 1. taking the photo as a prank (her view) or 2. taking the photo as a joke she specifically came up with (photographer’s story). Hence, an investigation, since no one can prove tongue/no tongue. The tongue is the actual assault. The picture is juvenile idiocy fully in keeping with centuries of men doing this shit without consequences yet now, we’re ready to declare any of that a sign of moral turpitude.

  171. 171
    martian says:

    @TenguPhule:

    What slutshaming? The accusation was made about commenters here…

    So, you’re trying to shift the ground from saying I falsely accused commenters here to me needing to name a Dem rep or I’m wrong about slutshaming? Why should I entertain this bullshit?

  172. 172
    TenguPhule says:

    @eclare: That was Cornerstone.

    I second his sentiments a lot.

  173. 173
  174. 174
    Miss Bianca says:

    @ruemara: word.

  175. 175
    TenguPhule says:

    @martian: You’re lumping us all in one big group of slutshaming, evidence is required from you as to where the fucking slut-shaming is.

  176. 176
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Colleeniem:

    DEFCON one

    Thank you for getting that right! Not aa common as your/you’re, but still annoying.

  177. 177
    BBA says:

    @Cacti: I’m totally okay with saying all men should be disbelieved. But I’m a man, so you shouldn’t believe me when I say it.

  178. 178
    PhoenixRising says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Trump has condemned Franken and said nothing about Moore other then “let the Alabama voters decide”. And the media has given him a pass on that.

    I just ran a couple of errands in my teen’s car, which had been left with the radio on tuned to a country station that does news, weather & traffic at the top of the hour.

    Just about ran off the road when the man with the Neutral Midwestern White Dude Accentless Accent read this headline: “The President has given a partisan response”, described accurately the charges against Franken and Moore, and closed with a note than the President has been accused of sexual assault which his press secretary says he hasn’t admitted to, though there are recordings of it.

    This was local radio, y’all. Throw off a bit of the sackcloth & ashes?

  179. 179
  180. 180
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud: At this point, who does?

  181. 181
    ruemara says:

    Ok, I hate to come back to it, but the kiss is less of an issue than the picture? Has anyone here been frenched unwillingly? I have. It’s gross, violating and repellent. It doesn’t matter if you’re rehearsing a scene or if it’s someone you didn’t expect restraining you to kiss you like that, it leaves a mark. I’d be pissed as hell about the Benny Hill level boob joke, but, yeah, much rather that than someone invading my body like that. Newsflash, when you do something that makes someone want to either cleanse their body parts over and over or remove the skin so you don’t remember what that touch feels like, it’s an assault. If they want to slap you upside the head, it’s just being an asshole.

  182. 182
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @TenguPhule:

    She gets a higher bar because she lies for a living.

    Bingo

  183. 183
    Emma says:

    @PhoenixRising: Now that is a Alleuia moment!

  184. 184
    Steve in the ATL says:

    FYI St. Louis area juicers—the meet up has moved to the Comfort Plus section of Delta flight 1199. Further bulletins as events warrant.

  185. 185
    TenguPhule says:

    @ruemara:

    but the kiss is less of an issue than the picture?

    Kiss story is the one in serious dispute. Franken apologized and acknowledged the photo, but has NOT ONCE conceded that her story about the kiss is true. It is the more serious charge and the one with no evidence available beyond personal credibility.

  186. 186
    Brachiator says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Trump has condemned Franken and said nothing about Moore other then “let the Alabama voters decide”.

    Trump is nothing if not predictable.

    And the media has given him a pass on that.

    Some media. The media ain’t a monolith. Also, false equivalency is the bread and butter of Internet fools. The Republicans were desperate to find someone that they could use to deflect criticism of Moore, especially since there is no time machine in which they could travel back in time and demand Bill Clinton’s resignation.

  187. 187
    Cacti says:

    @BBA:

    I’m totally okay with saying all men should be disbelieved. But I’m a man, so you shouldn’t believe me when I say it.

    Winner of the internets.

  188. 188
    TenguPhule says:

    @BBA:

    I’m totally okay with saying all men should be disbelieved. But I’m a man, so you shouldn’t believe me when I say it.

    Thread won.

  189. 189
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Cool. Will check it out on the computer later.

  190. 190
    Fair Economist says:

    @Emma:

    Van Jones was certainly driven out for saying something that, dammit, was completely true. So, again, we’re down to Trappist monks or perfect liars.

    That sounds like “perfect liar” is the only choice.

    It’s kind of shocking how often we let people who were *absolutely* in the right get kicked out of office.

  191. 191
    martian says:

    @Cacti:
    How would you shift an entire culture? Got any carefully nuanced slogans that would do the trick?

  192. 192
    Colleeniem says:

    @Steve in the ATL: My profession is showing ;).

  193. 193
    Cacti says:

    @martian:

    How would you shift an entire culture?

    With thoughtless absolutism of course.

  194. 194
    Fair Economist says:

    @ruemara:

    Ok, I hate to come back to it, but the kiss is less of an issue than the picture?

    The kiss (if it happened) is the real issue. The picture shows Franken NOT assaulting her, just making a joke about harassment, which is not actionable. I suspect the majority of standup routines include a harassment joke.

  195. 195
  196. 196
  197. 197

    @ruemara: Agreed. The kiss is a he said/she said, of course.

  198. 198
  199. 199
    TenguPhule says:

    @George Spiggott: I can’t believe McConnell got the best burn of Moore on the Internet.

    Moore: “Bring. It. On.”

    McConnell: “That’s the name of a high school cheerleader movie”

  200. 200
    guachi says:

    @martian:

    People are posting nudes of her like it has some bearing on her credibility.

    I don’t think Leann Tweeden has ever posed nude. At least nude where you could actually see anything. Even when she posed in Playboy she was never fully nude.

  201. 201
    Baud says:

    @TenguPhule: He knows Moore is into high school cheerleaders.

  202. 202
    eclare says:

    @mike in dc: OMG, what is that?

  203. 203
    mike in dc says:

    @eclare: Pretty sure it’s a baby pygmy hippo. Really really young, because they get bigger fast.

  204. 204
    eclare says:

    @mike in dc: It’s cute, but I don’t know if I would want one on my couch. I know my dog wouldn’t.

  205. 205
    George Spiggott says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Wreckless driving on Dirty Back Road?

  206. 206
    ruemara says:

    @TenguPhule: Yes, I know. They picked a charge that would be the hardest to prove or disprove.

    @Major Major Major Major: Exactly. Getting us to make believing assault victims as a partisan charge and discrediting the Me Too movement as lib/progs use the same vile language and tactics because this is a Fox commentator. I don’t give a fuck about her Playboy past or her current job. I care if others can corroborate Franken being an abuser of women. I don’t believe he is, but I know it’s possible. But I’m not gullible, nor am I unaware of how effectively people, including myself, can be manipulated.

  207. 207
    guachi says:

    @Cacti:

    The companion slogan to “All women should be believed,” that no one wants to come right out and say is “All men should be disbelieved”.

    I wonder why? Does it make the tribe uncomfortable?

    I’ve been saddened by the people who have said that these assault/harassment actions are “male actions” and implicitly absolve women of responsibility if they do these things.

    If men do it, it’s because they are men. If women do it, it’s because they are acting like men. It absolves women of any guilt or responsibility whatsoever.

    It’s like saying murder is a “black thing” because black Americans commit murder at a rate 6x that of other racial groups.

  208. 208
    Fair Economist says:

    Ooh, here’s an interesting twist on the picture:

    First, it wasn’t taken when the accuser said it was.

    Second, the picture was altered when Franken won his seat:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/DipswitchDan/status/931413204504334336

  209. 209
    martian says:

    @TenguPhule:
    You took the time to quote me and bold face phrases but skipped the qualifiers indicating some but not all. Since I didn’t actually lump everyone into “one big group of slutshaming”, I don’t know what the fuck you’re even arguing with me about.

  210. 210
    Baud says:

    Some needed good news.

    President Trump’s job approval rating hit a new low in November and has declined for three months straight, according to the latest Harvard CAPS-Harris Poll.

    The survey found that 41 percent approve of the job Trump is doing, compared to 59 percent who disapprove. That’s down from a 45 percent approval in September and the previous low of 42 percent, which Trump hit in October. Trump peaked in the Harvard CAPS-Harris survey at 49 percent approval in March.

  211. 211
    Colleeniem says:

    @TenguPhule: Yep. I’m on the #metoo train, and the forced kiss is what I’m referencing as similar in my situation, and I heard what Sen. Franken said the first time and the second, about not remembering the same situation. What I heard was potential OUT for the accuser. Sorry not sorry.

  212. 212
    TenguPhule says:

    @martian: Those are your words, completely unedited except for the bolding. There was no “some, not all” there. And now you’re gaslighting.

    Put up or shut up.

  213. 213
    Baud says:

    @Fair Economist: Damn. Didn’t know photos contained that much information.

  214. 214
    Peale says:

    @TenguPhule: he stole that from me. Damnit.

  215. 215
    Miss Bianca says:

    @mike in dc: OMG!

    They say it’s your birthday? Happy birthday!

  216. 216
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    Wasn’t he down in the 30s not so long ago?

  217. 217
    Baud says:

    @debbie: Different pollsters.

  218. 218
    eclare says:

    @mike in dc: Happy Birthday! Remember seeing that on a dead thread. One year behind you!

  219. 219
    Peale says:

    @debbie: the 30s is the percent that like him.

  220. 220
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @Fair Economist: Wow, looks like ole Roger got us again.

  221. 221
    mike in dc says:

    @Miss Bianca: Thanks.

  222. 222
    Mokum says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): but the population of Denmark is just a third of the Netherlands, half of Belgium.
    That sounds tiny to me. Most of of denmark is water and cows, no?

  223. 223
    Baud says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: As usual, we got ourselves. They other side just sets the table.

  224. 224
    Fair Economist says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: It is indeed Acorn/Van Jones/Shirley Sherrod, all over again.

    Except this time our side settled for an inquiry and didn’t actually force a resignation before the accusations blew up.

  225. 225
  226. 226
    mike in dc says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Pretty sure his number with non-college educated conservative rural evangelical white males over 50 is a solid 90+%.

  227. 227
    George Spiggott says:

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    But they all lose to Mother Russia!

  228. 228
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    Interesting:

    TT @TheTabbasco
    Replying to @LeeannTweeden
    Strange, I was Al Frankin’s Escort officer…I don’t remember any of this except there was a lot of good natured joking in a crowded room…I was with him the entire time on base…
    TT @TheTabbasco
    He had an escort on every base during waking hours…I even stayed with him in the bathroom…If I saw anything that was inappropriate, it was my job to report it…BTW I am an independent, who did Leeanne vote for???

  229. 229
  230. 230
    martian says:

    @Cacti:
    That’s not an answer to the problem I posed you, and it’s a real one. “Believe women” is a slogan meant to counter massive social injustice. How do you sloganeer with nuance?

    In practice, nobody believes everybody. But shifting the presumption that women lie has been very much an uphill battle.

  231. 231
    Baud says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: That’s why you do an investigation.

  232. 232
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Fair Economist: Is our Democratz learning?

  233. 233
    trollhattan says:

    @Baud:
    A crapton of data in a digital image’s metadata. Here’s a freeware tool for anybody curious to poke around in one.

    “Modified” can be benign, such as resizing, color-correcting, etc.

  234. 234
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @trollhattan: Yes, except the date of alteration is very suspicious. But all this can be faked as well, so …..

  235. 235

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: The date’s a little suspicious, but trollhattan is right and most modifications are probably benign.

  236. 236
    Baud says:

    @trollhattan: So can a Twitter pic be traced back to the person who sent it?

  237. 237
    martian says:

    @TenguPhule:
    “So many” is a qualifier indicating some, not all, dude. I don’t know how you’re getting to gaslighting from here.

    Am I supposed to go fetch you links so you can argue what qualifies as “so many” now?

  238. 238
    Dave says:

    @Cacti: The slogan should be all accusations should be taken seriously. And unless there is significant positive evidence about a malicious claim we shouldn’t attack/punish a claimant even if the accused isn’t found guilty in a court of law or even if we don’t find the claim to be credible. Especially since harassment really does have an eye of the beholder element.
    People like Moore and Trump have multiple accusations that have patterns that fit their behavior and beliefs which is different than boorish behavior that crossed a line.
    If we are going to start taking these issues seriously, and we damned well should, we are going to have to take a mature approach to all of it. Individuals make choices and they but they make choices in a framework. What past not ongoing behavior is condemned but not disqualifying? I don’t think those are easy questions I do know our media isn’t up to the task.

  239. 239
    Fair Economist says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: The metadata has been verified on the image hosted on Tweeden’s blog, according to the posted Twitter thread.

  240. 240
    Brachiator says:

    @martian:

    In practice, nobody believes everybody. But shifting the presumption that women lie has been very much an uphill battle.

    Actually it was more that in the Great Chain of Being, the reputation of women could be sacrificed in order to preserve the social standing of men, especially white men (in America). Variations of this have been played out in other countries.

  241. 241
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Idle query, because y’all know how ignorant I am about pop culture references:

    I kind of know what “Brosef/Broseph” means, but where did it come from? Why is it suddenly A Thing?

  242. 242
    Peale says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: A man known to be so sexually depraved that even the Army thought he needed 24 hour surveillance!!!

  243. 243
    mike in dc says:

    @eclare: I have been informed that it’s actually a hairless guinea pig. Looks a bit like a baby hippo though.

  244. 244
    Mike J says:

    @Baud: Twitter (and most social media sites) strip EXIF data for just this reason.

    Reddit (where else) used to have a subredditt devoted to pulling lat/lon out of EXIF of attractive women’s selfies.

  245. 245
    Peale says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: oh…does this mean there might be an actual report?

  246. 246
    TenguPhule says:

    @Elie: Now imagine having to go through this same song and dance for FIFTEEN YEARS on this very blog and you begin to understand my sparkling upbeat personality.

  247. 247
    TenguPhule says:

    @martian: Name some names. Who is slut-shaming Franken’s accuser? I’ve the accusation in general but nobody is saying who did it. You made the fucking accusation, well, where it did it fucking come from?

  248. 248

    @Mike J: We even strip EXIF on the On The Road submissions here.

  249. 249
    TenguPhule says:

    @Fair Economist: Color me shocked, shocked that there is gambling going on in these premises.

  250. 250
    Steve says:

    As with all dudes, divide by a factor 10. 50 is more like 5.

  251. 251
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud:

    They other side just sets the table.

    And we baste ourselves and hop into that oven.

    Gobble Gobble.

  252. 252
    TenguPhule says:

    @Fair Economist:

    Except this time our side settled for an inquiry and didn’t actually force a resignation before the accusations blew up.

    Not for lack of trying.

  253. 253
    TenguPhule says:

    @martian:

    But shifting the presumption that women lie has been very much an uphill battle.

    We can shift the presumption that this particular woman probably lied.

    Surprise, sucker.

  254. 254
    TenguPhule says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Is our Democratz learning?

    Sadly, no.

  255. 255
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    The date’s a little suspicious, but trollhattan is right and most modifications are probably benign.

    A little? probably?

    Half of this blog was planning on Roasting Franken for dinner over this.

  256. 256
    martian says:

    @Brachiator:
    That’s true, you’re right. And from there it’s an easy reach to judges choosing not to “ruin the life” of a perpetrator by handing down a serious sentence even after the case is proven. There’ve been some notorious recent examples.

  257. 257

    @TenguPhule: Which would have been true if the date of edit was… last week.

  258. 258

    We are still fucking talking about this topic? I am bored.

  259. 259
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I blame DougJ.

  260. 260
    David Evans says:

    @TenguPhule: CNN (the only US channel I can get here in the UK) is not giving Trump a pass on Franken vs Moore., or on his own record.

  261. 261
    debit says:

    @trollhattan: Norm was a well known ass and tit grabber. It would have been a bad move on his part.

  262. 262
    TenguPhule says:

    In lighter news, the nation of India is laughing at the FYNYT for getting lost in translation.

  263. 263
    TenguPhule says:

    @David Evans: That’s good.

  264. 264
  265. 265
    Baud says:

    @David Evans: It’s not CNN international?

  266. 266
    Peale says:

    @schrodingers_cat: we have not yet completed reckoning with the fact that others have not reckoned with the fact that they might have swallowed wholesale speculation about the Lewinsky affair and are now demanding that we stop everything until they catch up with the rest of us. I guess we’ll need to wait awhile.

  267. 267

    This Ohio politico is probably just lying, isn’t bragging non existent conquests a very male teenagery thing to do? Some people obviously never grow up.

  268. 268
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud: The New York Times tried to explain sari fashion — and became the laughingstock of India

    The New York Times piece is a gross misrepresentation of what the sari means to us. Though apparently written by an Indian writer from Kashmir, the meandering article claims that “The [Indian] government’s aim certainly has been to produce a popular fashion aesthetic that matches the broader political program of Hindu nationalism” and quotes a social anthropologist who says, “There is a clear connection between the rising Hindu nationalism and the aesthetic production of leading Indian fashion designers and the country’s luxury industry at large.” Such inanities raise grave questions about how the New York Times’s editors let it pass.

    I usually don’t agree with how prickly Indians get when we are chronicled in American media — but this time I felt enraged. The article underscores the lazy tropes, the broad cliches and the forced narratives of so many foreign newspapers and channels when it comes to India — our country is frankly way too complex for their unthinking labels and boxes. (There are some honorable exceptions, like the New York Times’s former South Asia correspondent, Ellen Barry, who captured the zeitgeist of India brilliantly.) If in the ’60s and ’70s the Western media came in search of snake-charmers and saffron-robed spiritual gurus, in 2017, they are still trying to force-fit us into their preconceived idea of India as a communal, underdeveloped third-world country.

  269. 269
    Baud says:

    @TenguPhule:

    NYT कूड़ा है

  270. 270

    @TenguPhule: Their reviews of Indian movies are always incredibly condescending and ignorant, so it doesn’t surprise me in the least.

  271. 271
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Yes, but this time I think they went out on a branch of extra special stupid.

    And what the hell, we need to laugh at something at this moment.

    Since making fun of Justice League seems to be out of bounds for the time being, anyway.

  272. 272

    @Baud: The word your looking for is बकवास, bakwas

  273. 273

    @TenguPhule: I stopped reading Vichy Times a year ago. Perhaps I should make an exception, for this article.

  274. 274
  275. 275
    Spanky says:

    Very clearly I’m a sophomoric male troglodyte for loling at this. So be it.

    US Navy air crew, flying an F/A-18 Growler (Electronic Attack Aircraft) assigned to Electronic Attack Squadron 130 based at Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, Wash., flew an air pattern over Okanogan County, Washington, on Thursday, November 16, that left a condensed air trail resembling an obscene image to observers on the ground,” Navy spokesperson Lt. Cmdr. Leslie Hubbell said

    Go to the CNN article to see the “obscene” image, which CNN would not have published if it truly were.

  276. 276
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat: If it helps, the article skewering it is in the Washington Post.

  277. 277
    Brachiator says:

    @TenguPhule:

    “There is a clear connection between the rising Hindu nationalism and the aesthetic production of leading Indian fashion designers and the country’s luxury industry at large.”

    Kinda like how the raising or dropping of the hemlines of women’s skirts is supposed to tell you something about the state of the economy or the national mood?

  278. 278
    TenguPhule says:

    @Brachiator: I report, you deride. ; )

  279. 279
    JR says:

    “Dear Penthouse Letters,”

  280. 280
    Peale says:

    @Brachiator: I suppose. However, I’m not exactly certain how one measures these things. Almost everyone wears a sari one day vs. nearly everyone wears a sari on a different day?

  281. 281
    Brachiator says:

    @Spanky:

    Go to the CNN article to see the “obscene” image, which CNN would not have published if it truly were.

    I like how one news site described it as the Sky phallus.

  282. 282
  283. 283
    martian says:

    @guachi: I know more than I was interested in knowing thanks to one of the pics floating around today. The straps and decorative chains were more of a framing device than clothing.

    @TenguPhule: You seem to have gotten a bug up your ass misreading me in the first place that you can’t shake loose. But, just for you, I’ll spend a few minutes at the mirror practicing my shocked and dismayed face for if it comes out Tweeden was lying.

  284. 284
    David Evans says:

    @Baud: I think what I’m watching is the US version of CNN, not international. The programs seem to match the US schedules.

    Also, I think this EXIF data is a very big deal. It is evidence that Tweeden is lying about the picture being taken on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, which is surely not something one would make a mistake about. The data is in the version of the picture at http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16.....l-franken/. Right-click it, save to your hard drive then look in almost any editing program to see the data.

  285. 285
    Steeplejack says:

    @Mokum:

    Nevada is mostly desert and has only 3 million people. Nobody calls it tiny based on that.

  286. 286
    Van Buren says:

    @John Cole: Are you inferring that people can’t learn something that simple?

  287. 287

    @TenguPhule: I read the original too. Stupid is too kind a word to describe it. Sari has been the uniform of women in politics of all religions in India, not just those of BJP. See for example, Indira Gandhi.

  288. 288
    TenguPhule says:

    @Van Buren:

    Are you inferring that people can’t learn something that simple?

    I see what you did there.

  289. 289
    fuckwit says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: If you leave about 3 Benjamins on the nightstand, that’s more like the going rate for consent for people who look like Limboat.

  290. 290
    TenguPhule says:

    @martian: I’m upset and probably taking out a good portion of my anger on you. If I am misreading you, I apologize. I started the week in a good mood for a change and am ending it on a very sour note.

  291. 291
    TenguPhule says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Who seems to think leaving an Andy Jackson on the nightstand is “consent.”

    Consent for Limbaugh is when the child in question only squeaks instead of screams.

  292. 292
    Steeplejack says:

    @George Spiggott:

    Well played.

    I miss SCTV. Just the other day a friend and I were laughing about the end of Johnny LaRue’s epic movie, when Dr. John (!) tells him (in his trademark rasp): “Forget it, LaRue, dis is Polynesiantown.” (At 2:10 in the clip.)

  293. 293
    martian says:

    @TenguPhule:
    #myweektoo

    Just tell me you aren’t one of the guys defending Matt Taibbi and Mark Ames, then I’ll apologize, too, I’ll take back how you should fuck off forever, and we can forget all about the recent unpleasantness. Fellow “progressives” are just getting all my side-eye lately, it’s been depressing.

  294. 294
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Steeplejack: Denmark, Belgium, and the Netherlands are all tiny. There, I said it. The three countries’ area is about 2/3 the size of Wisconsin.

  295. 295
    Maeve says:

    “interesting” how he insists that he only sleeps with “attractive” women and characterizes the last as a “redhead”, that being her only significant feature, not like she was a person or anything. Also outing people by naming their positions while they might have assumed that a discreet fun for all night or two or many might have been private.

    If I was in Ohio that wouldn’t have lent me to vote for him. Much

  296. 296
    Aleta says:

    @Steeplejack: I had fun seeing some tiny places like Denmark get lost in Antarctica.

  297. 297
  298. 298

    @Fair Economist: The inference about the camera is missing information, he says military or a pro. Owen Franken is a pro photographer.

  299. 299
    satby says:

    @Emma: thank you, that’s a point I wonder about too.

  300. 300
    satby says:

    @ruemara: another standing ovation.
    People done been lobotomized.

  301. 301
    TenguPhule says:

    @martian:

    Just tell me you aren’t one of the guys defending Matt Taibbi and Mark Ames, then I’ll apologize, too

    Not defending them.

  302. 302
    martian says:

    @TenguPhule:
    Thank you. I apologize for my side of the argument. Probably my writing was insufficiently clear and contributed to the confusion.

  303. 303
    JaneSays says:

    @JanieM: Didn’t seem to hurt the POS Pussygrabber-in-Chief among that crowd.

  304. 304
    J R in WV says:

    @Emma:

    REmember, back in 2006 Al Franklin was professional clown. He made jokes continuously, some of them great because he was a real pro, others not so good, because no one bats a thousand. Even a really good comic is going to hit around .600 or .750 which means every 5 or 6 jokes one will be not funny, in poor taste, outside normal bounds.

    But in a comic, jokes in poor taste are never a career killer, unless someone gets killed in the process of the gag. But making fakey asexual advances on camera to a sleeping fellow member of the case, while a joke that I would give a 4 on the 1-10 scale, isn’t sexual assault. It shouldn’t embarrassh the other members of the gag, either, because they know they’re working with a clown.

    Also, holding bad jokes from the past against a clown who has gone on to more serious work, where he bats closer to .990 than the .750 or .800 he bats as a clown, is just plain old wrong, expecially when the former cast member has gone on to work with political enemies of the clown they worked with years ago.

    I’m done with criticism of Al Franken based on the activities of a clown. Come back to me with evidence of real sexual assault as a senator, then we can talk. Otherwise it’s a cheap unfair hit based upon lies about a good man.

    Thanks for listening. I am in the depths of insomnia right now. Dawg help me, the pills aren’t working.

  305. 305
    Marcia says:

    It’s all fun and games until they start using canine metaphors.

Comments are closed.