Quday’s Problematic Penpal

I can’t wait to watch these motherfuckers get perp walked:

Just before the stroke of midnight on September 20, 2016, at the height of last year’s presidential election, the Wikileaks Twitter account sent a private direct message to Donald Trump Jr., the Republican nominee’s oldest son and campaign surrogate. “A PAC run anti-Trump site putintrump.org is about to launch,” Wikileaks wrote. “The PAC is a recycled pro-Iraq war PAC. We have guessed the password. It is ‘putintrump.’ See ‘About’ for who is behind it. Any comments?” (The site, which has since become a joint project with Mother Jones, was founded by Rob Glaser, a tech entrepreneur, and was funded by Progress for USA Political Action Committee.)

The next morning, about 12 hours later, Trump Jr. responded to Wikileaks. “Off the record I don’t know who that is, but I’ll ask around,” he wrote on September 21, 2016. “Thanks.”

The messages, obtained by The Atlantic, were also turned over by Trump Jr.’s lawyers to congressional investigators. They are part of a long—and largely one-sided—correspondence between Wikileaks and the president’s son that continued until at least July 2017. The messages show Wikileaks, a radical transparency organization that the American intelligence community believes was chosen by the Russian government to disseminate the information it had hacked, actively soliciting Trump Jr.’s cooperation. Wikileaks made a series of increasingly bold requests, including asking for Trump’s tax returns, urging the Trump campaign on Election Day to reject the results of the election as rigged, and requesting that the president-elect tell Australia to appoint Julian Assange ambassador to the United States.

Mueller knows who he asked about this. We will soon, too, but I am guessing Roger Stone is involved.






280 replies
  1. 1
    guachi says:

    Not certain if you intentionally mixed the names together, but it’s Uday and Qusay.

  2. 2
    Mary G says:

    Your lips to dog’s ears, John. It’s hard to be patient when all of the courts are being packed for life.

  3. 3
    Feebog says:

    Tick.tock, mutherfukers.

  4. 4
    germy says:

    Why would they ask for 45’s tax returns?

  5. 5
    Mark K says:

    Having to explain yesterday to my young son about Iran-Contra and how they all got away with it, I’ll believe the “perp-walk” when I see it. I’d even start going to church again if that happened.

    These people are the most complete combo of dumb + evil I’ve ever seen in American government.

  6. 6
    Cheryl Rofer says:

  7. 7
    NotMax says:

    It’s not collusion if you don’t swallow.

    /RWNJ media

  8. 8
    Immanentize says:

    I am guessing Roger Stone is involved.

    And Cambridge Analytics — from Adam’s earlier comments….

  9. 9
    Waldo says:

    I find this all too confusing to get worked up about. Counting on Mueller to bring the serious criminal aspects into focus.

  10. 10
    Elizabelle says:

    Dang. You’re gonna make me look at The Atlantic again, after saying (downstairs) I wouldn’t.

    Put in Trump.

    PutinTrump.

    Same difference.

  11. 11
    Kristine says:

    @Mary G: I’m pretty sure this has been discussed, but if it’s proved that T***p actively colluded, will his appointments stand?

  12. 12
    Immanentize says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I know! I love how much Mueller has at his disposal from regular LEO sources and all the world’s intelligence agencies. Makes me tingle in anticipation….

  13. 13
    Elizabelle says:

    @Immanentize: Yes. We want to find out why Robert Mercer is stepping down from the Board, although not leaving, Cambridge Analytica. And selling his Breitbart stakes to his rightwing daughters.

    I’d love to see Assange bounced by the Ecuadorians. Maybe Mueller can make that happen.

  14. 14
    Immanentize says:

    @Kristine:

    will his appointments stand?

    Yes
    SATSQ

    But they will become increasingly politically targeted.

  15. 15
    Elizabelle says:

    @Kristine: I hope not. Gorsuch gotta go, and the worst of the federal judge appointees too.

    And don’t let them keep the presidency. No rewarding his party for their nominee stealing the White House.

  16. 16
    NotMax says:

    @Kristine

    Yes. Those not prosecuited could be individually challenged, but that’s a different can of worms.

  17. 17
    Immanentize says:

    @Elizabelle:

    I’d love to see Assange bounced by the Ecuadorians.

    I think that is becoming more likely every day, and not because of US pressure. If anything, we are probably helping (i.e, paying) the Ecuadorans to harbor him.

  18. 18
    Cheryl Rofer says:

  19. 19
    Corner Stone says:

    @germy: Yeah. Trump is dumb AF. But he certainly would never share his real tax returns with his moron weakling son.

  20. 20
    dedc79 says:

    It’s basically a John Le Carre novel, except with all the participants having a combined IQ under 100.

  21. 21
    different-church-lady says:

    @germy:

    Why would they ask for 45’s tax returns?

    They were going to give him a mortgage?

  22. 22
  23. 23
    germy says:

    Getting Flynn through Flynn, jr.

    Getting drumpf through drumpf, jr.?

  24. 24

    @Cheryl Rofer: Yeah, I seriously can’t believe that’s how the article describes them.

  25. 25
    germy says:

    @Corner Stone:

    moron weakling

    I would bet he’s used those exact words during arguments with his spawn.

  26. 26
    Immanentize says:

    @dedc79: The other day we decided it was all a Le Carre novel, but all the characters were meth addicts. I guess the two are not binary….

  27. 27
    aimai says:

    @Elizabelle: This will not affect his appointments at all. It won’t affect Trump at all. Impeachment is a political matter. And they will never impeach. And even if they did it won’t retroactively remove his presidential powers.

  28. 28
    Betty Cracker says:

    @germy: That’s the best part! WL explicitly says it would be helpful for their (WL’s) public image since they were accused of being pro-Trump. Can you even? Jesus — what dedc79 said at #20.

  29. 29
    Immanentize says:

    @germy:

    Getting drumpf through drumpf, jr.?

    I worry that will end up like trying to get Zeus through one of his kids….

  30. 30
    germy says:

    Though Trump Jr. mostly ignored the frequent messages from WikiLeaks, he at times appears to have acted on its requests. When WikiLeaks first reached out to Trump Jr. about putintrump.org, for instance, Trump Jr. followed up on his promise to “ask around.”

    According to a source familiar with the congressional investigations into Russian interference with the 2016 campaign, who requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing, on the same day that Trump Jr. received the first message from WikiLeaks, he emailed other senior officials with the Trump campaign, including Steve Bannon, Kellyanne Conway, Brad Parscale, and Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner, telling them WikiLeaks had made contact. Kushner then forwarded the email to campaign communications staffer Hope Hicks. At no point during the 10-month correspondence does Trump Jr. rebuff WikiLeaks

    oof!

  31. 31
    The Moar You Know says:

    I’d love to see Assange bounced by the Ecuadorians.

    @Elizabelle: I would not. He’d make it about two steps out the door before being shot in the head. He knows WAY too much for Uncle Vlad to let him live.

    I’d like to see him hauled off in the dead of night by a British or American squad of law enforcement goons. He needs to be pumped dry of info.

  32. 32
    Elizabelle says:

    @germy: That’s what I think. Although who knows how much loyalty Trump will show to the lesser (ie. least attractive) of his spawn?

  33. 33
    Immanentize says:

    @germy: I can think of a million reasons, one likely being they would bury them in the DNC or Podesta emails and claim that they stole them from the IRS.

  34. 34
    Elizabelle says:

    @The Moar You Know: bounced into custody works for me. I suspect Assange is more helpful alive than dead, at least at this stage.

    Earlier? Uh, no.

  35. 35
    Patrick Thompson says:

    @dedc79: Honestly, I think it’s more a Coen brothers movie. Like Burn After Reading with dumber characters.

  36. 36
    GregB says:

    This outrage will not stand. Don Jr. was just child.

  37. 37
    Immanentize says:

    @aimai: I agree, but Gorsuch is particularly vulnerable politically in that the Republicans violated every norm to get him on the Court.

  38. 38
    Mnemosyne says:

    I’m going to say it again: the Trumpers and Republicans are themselves so propagandized at this point that they really do think that the Clintons are crooked but were never caught, so they were susceptible to every two-bit con artist who came to them and swore that, this time, they really did have the goods, only they couldn’t deliver jjjjuuussssstttt yet …

    IOW, they got high on their own supply.

  39. 39
    germy says:

    @Elizabelle:

    “Hi Don. Hope you’re doing well!”

  40. 40
    dedc79 says:

    @Patrick Thompson: A Coen/Le Carre mashup?

  41. 41
    germy says:

    @Immanentize:

    I can think of a million reasons, one likely being they would bury them in the DNC or Podesta emails and claim that they stole them from the IRS.

    The anwer to my question is further along in the article. I posted before reading the whole thing.

  42. 42
    Immanentize says:

    @germy: By the way, does anyone think we do not have EVERY FUCKING communication in and out of the Ecuadoran embassy? Illegal, perhaps, but not in the ol’ US of A.

    ETA By “we” I mean Bobby three sticks.

  43. 43
    Tom Q says:

    During the height of Watergate, a lot of us were thinking, it’s so damn obvious the SOB’s guilty (as Doonesbury famously put it, “That’s GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!”); how long will it take for that to become commonly accepted knowledge?

    This is the same, on steroids. We’ve already had revelations that ought to sink a presidency — today’s just the latest example — but it’s like some in the press are waiting for Steve Doocy’s concurrence. Face it: there are going to be more/worse stories. This is the biggest scandal in America history, and it’s high time we all started acting like it.

    I see no way this doesn’t end with Trump utterly crashing and burning, taking the party down with him. The only question is how deep the rot goes, and, whatever your bet, I’ll take the over.

  44. 44
    dedc79 says:

    @Betty Cracker: Tinker Tailor Soldier Stupid.

  45. 45
    lamh36 says:

    1. Trust and believe…Roy Moore’s people in AL are looking to find ANYONE willing to come forward, for money or fame to accuse the Dem
    2. WH won’t officially touch the Roy Moore thing…instead they’ll focus on this story bout Jr and Wikileaks.
    3. Chump will STILL tweet something stupid surely

  46. 46
    Immanentize says:

    @dedc79: Another good treatment idea!

  47. 47
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mary G:

    It’s hard to be patient when all of the courts are being packed for life.

    I suppose it will be an interesting legal question.

    But why not just arrest all of Trump’s nominees and have their cases dragged out in court until they die in prison.

    It worked for Guantanamo Bay.

  48. 48
    Redshift says:

    @germy:

    Why would they ask for 45’s tax returns?

    According to the article, the argument WikiLeaks was making to Junior is that if they leaked them, it would counter the impression that they were a pro-Russia and pro-Trump organization, giving their anti-Clinton leaks more impact.

    Kind of stupid, but it does make it pretty damn obvious that they knew they were a pro-Putin organization, Assange’s protestations notwithstanding.

  49. 49
    rikyrah says:

    Quday’s Problematic Penpal

    BWA HA HA HA H AH HAH A HAH

  50. 50
    NotMax says:

    @Immanentize

    Should the vacancy arise soon (it likely won’t), by the Rs own ‘arguments’ Christie should be barred from appointing a replacement for Menendez as it is his last year as governor.

  51. 51
  52. 52
    The Moar You Know says:

    I suspect Assange is more helpful alive than dead, at least at this stage.

    @Elizabelle: LOL. I’m sure there will come a point when he is more useful to us dead, and I don’t have a problem with that. He’s engaged in warfare against the US, and facilitated treason by several individuals.

  53. 53
    scott (the other one) says:

    @germy: Except Flynn probably cares enough about his son to try to protect him even at a cost to himself.

  54. 54
    bemused says:

    @Immanentize:

    Chris Hayes also said every time someone reaches out to trump world with skeevy asks, they say, “Let’s totally do this.”

    True, they just jump all in.

  55. 55
    TenguPhule says:

    @Immanentize: We’d have better odds on getting the Republican half of Congress implicated in High Treason.

  56. 56
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Tom Q: I definitely agree it’s the biggest political scandal in American history. I fervently hope that it will take Trump down. No other outcome is acceptable.

  57. 57
    different-church-lady says:

    @Redshift: Wikileaks: We Steal Plead For Secrets (Pretty Please?)

  58. 58
    TenguPhule says:

    @Tom Q:

    The only question is how deep the rot goes, and, whatever your bet, I’ll take the over.

    All of em, Katie.

    We’re gonna experience a spiked pike shortfall before this is over.

  59. 59
    Elizabelle says:

    @Tom Q:

    This is the biggest scandal in America history, and it’s high time we all started acting like it.

    I see no way this doesn’t end with Trump utterly crashing and burning, taking the party down with him. The only question is how deep the rot goes

    I agree, totally.

    Roy Moore is an entertaining skirmish, but the big story is what we’re not hearing, on the Trump and Republicans front, that Mueller is professionally and doggedly pursuing.

    And why McConnell (and Ryan?) dissuaded Obama from publicizing what the intelligence community was seeing. As a voter, we should have been told. We were not.

  60. 60
    Elizabelle says:

    I mean, we live in a time when CNN is running ads saying “this is not a banana.” The fuck?!

  61. 61
    Immanentize says:

    @Mary G:

    It’s hard to be patient when all of the courts are being packed for life

    There are many many many federal courts, and there are only just a slightly above average number of vacancies. We survived 12 years of Reagan/Bush followed by another eight years of Bush II. We can make it through 4 years of this maniac.

    Per Wikishit:

    There are currently 874 authorized Article III judgeships: nine on the Supreme Court, 179 on the courts of appeals, nine on the Court of International Trade and 677 for the district courts.

  62. 62
    lamh36 says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I’m sure…Chris will have Bernie Sanders on some time this week to discuss the newest Wikileaks bombshell….

    https://media.giphy.com/media/3h5pe45FM9qUM/giphy.gif

  63. 63
    aimai says:

    @Immanentize: What on earth does “vulnerable politically” mean in that sentence? I’m confused by what you think could force a sitting justice off the bench. There is nothing. Literally nothing that anyone can do about Gorsuch. He does not have to step down, and no one can force him to. There is no mechanism to remove him that I know of or no one who will impeach him to make that happen.

  64. 64
    NotMax says:

    @TenguPhule

    In a pinch, put the White House fence into double duty service?

  65. 65
    Roger Moore says:

    I wish people would stop associating Wikileaks with radical transparency. They are interested in selectively publicizing people’s dirt, but that’s not at all the same thing because it’s so selective. If they were actually interested in transparency, they’d publicize their own information, like where their funding comes from. You know, the way the Clinton Global Initiative does.

  66. 66
  67. 67
    Immanentize says:

    @NotMax: Sadly, the Senate has no say over State succession rules. But I like the way you think!!!

  68. 68

    @Immanentize:

    By the way, does anyone think we do not have EVERY FUCKING communication in and out of the Ecuadoran embassy?

    Of course we do, “Five Eyes”.

  69. 69
    Baud says:

    @Roger Moore: You saw where transparency got them?

  70. 70
    Julia Grey says:

    I am officially confused now. Why did WikiLeaks think these stratagems would blunt the “pro-Trump” accusations?

  71. 71
    realbtl says:

    @dedc79: Close bu not quite. How about Tinker Tailor Stupid Spy. Keeps the meter going.

  72. 72
    lamh36 says:

    @juliaioffe
    Follow Follow @juliaioffe
    More
    We’ve now updated the story with @ByronTau’s great catch: @realDonaldTrump tweeted about the release of Podesta’s emails *15 minutes* after @Wikileaks wrote to @DonaldJTrumpJr about it.

  73. 73
    TenguPhule says:

    @Immanentize: They’re targeting the Appeals Courts.

    Which is a big fucking deal. They pack those successfully and all those laughing about the thought of Civil War are going to find themselves crying.

  74. 74
    zhena gogolia says:

    @lamh36:

    You have the best gifs!

  75. 75
    Baud says:

    @Julia Grey: Because everyone from the far left to the far right was insane last year, and totally would have ran with that defense. The NYT would run a story blaming Hillary for defaming poor WikiLeaks.

  76. 76
    dedc79 says:

    @realbtl: Yup, yours is better

  77. 77
    Immanentize says:

    @aimai: I do not believe there is nothing. It just requires a political moment. See, Fortas, J.
    The legal community will not circle the wagons for the guy. Any impropriety will be damaging to deadly for his position. If (when) Trump goes, unlike Scalia, Gorsuch will not be able to go to secret retreats with oil magnates. But he will.

  78. 78
    TenguPhule says:

    @NotMax: Not sure the heads would remain stable on it, but I’m willing to give it a try.

  79. 79
    mouse tolliver says:

    @germy: I can see Trump pulling a Walder Frey if Meuller goes after Don Jr. “I have other sons.” ::shrugs::

  80. 80
    TenguPhule says:

    @aimai:

    There is nothing. Literally nothing that anyone can do about Gorsuch.

    Nothing a shot of polonium can’t fix.

  81. 81
    lamh36 says:

    chrisgeidner
    Follow Follow @chrisgeidner
    More
    The very same morning Pence said the Trump campaign wasn’t “in cahoots” with WikiLeaks, Don Jr. tweeted out a link provided to him by … WikiLeaks.

  82. 82
    NotMax says:

    @realbtl

    Substitute Tailor with Traitor and you’re on to something there….

    ;)

  83. 83
    germy says:

    @mouse tolliver: The smell of pomade in the woodchipper…

  84. 84
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud: Objection.

    We at BalloonJuice were sane. It was everyone else who was crazy.

  85. 85
    dr. bloor says:

    and requesting that the president-elect tell Australia to appoint Julian Assange ambassador to the United States.

    Is this a spoof, or has Assange gone that far off the rails in his closet?

  86. 86
    debbie says:

    @dedc79:

    Le Carré would take offense at that.

  87. 87
    NotMax says:

    @TenguPhule

    Don’t underestimate American know-how.

    ;)

  88. 88
    germy says:

    Any time you see in the news that an email about Russia was sent to this person—HOPE HICKS—it means that email was seen by TRUMP. Don Jr., Papadopoulos, Page, and others appear to have used Hicks as an "email launderer"—she shows emails to Trump he can later claim he never saw. pic.twitter.com/DIvVRNdCXb— Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) November 13, 2017

  89. 89
    Baud says:

    @TenguPhule: We are special.

  90. 90
    Trollhattan says:

    @mouse tolliver:
    “Don who? Might have heard of him.”

  91. 91

    @The Moar You Know:
    I don’t think Assange knows anything dangerous to Putin that would make killing him necessary. It’s not like Assange needed suborning, or that Wikileaks is tightly organized. He would gleefully leap on any anti-Hillary and anti-Obama information one of his hacker friends offered.

  92. 92
    Immanentize says:

    @TenguPhule: They cannot pack, they can only replace. And Obama got a LOT of Circuit Court of Appeals nominees — 55.

  93. 93
  94. 94
    lamh36 says:

    OT…But…hmmm..someone said polling must REALLY be bad…

    @jamiedupree
    Follow Follow @jamiedupree
    More
    Sen Richard Shelby R-AL on Roy Moore: “I think he ought to seriously think about dropping out”

    https://twitter.com/jamiedupree/status/930204183126560769

  95. 95
    TenguPhule says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I don’t think Assange knows anything dangerous to Putin that would make killing him necessary.

    Putin would kill him just to enjoy the light draining out of his eyes. Shutting him up at this point would just be a bonus.

  96. 96
    dr. bloor says:

    @debbie: It’s like James Angleton, only with severe head trauma.

  97. 97
    Baud says:

    @Trollhattan: He’s really one of the less important children of the family. Completely unpaid.

  98. 98
    TenguPhule says:

    @Immanentize: They’re already ahead of schedule on sending their appointees through, they’re not holding them up in the Senate anymore. 8 to Obama’s 3 for first year.

  99. 99
    NotMax says:

    @Baud

    Dolt 45 moonwalking through the Rose Garden while singing “The child is not my son.”

  100. 100
    dogwood says:

    @Elizabelle:
    Don’t have cable anymore, but every once in awhile when a big story breaks I’ll go on YouTube and watch a little CNN live. First time I saw the apple/banana ad I noticed it was followed by Jack Kingston essentially declaring that apples are fake fruit.

  101. 101
    TenguPhule says:

    NBC News talked to more than 15 Republican voters in Alabama and found none are changing their vote:

    Most said they didn’t believe the allegations and some said even if they are true, that wouldn’t sway their vote for him next month because they think Moore is a good man … a man who declined to give his name said, “This is Republican town, man. [Moore] could have killed Obama, and we wouldn’t care.”

    And I’m done trying to compromise with these Assholes.

    Labor Camps, stat.

  102. 102
    debbie says:

    @dedc79:

    Interesting. I watched a recent interview with him on 60 Minutes. The man has real character. I don’t think he could create characters as stupid as those in the Oval Office. Plus, his plotlines are clearly superior.

  103. 103
    vhh says:

    @Elizabelle: Mr Mercer has some multi BILLION dollar tax problems with Uncle Sam.

  104. 104
    Immanentize says:

    @TenguPhule: So what? I think we should assume they will replace all people retiring. The speed at which they do it is rather irrelevant, I think. In fact, it creates a space for later arguments. I cannot tell you how much I hate this space, because it involves furthering the efforts to denigrate the judiciary…. But it is already is in play.

  105. 105
    Trentrunner says:

    @Elizabelle: Never gonna happen. Gorsuch is going nowhere, ever, for anything Trump did. McConnell beat us good on that one, and we’ll be paying for it for 30-40 years.

  106. 106
    JohnO says:

    Count me as one who doesn’t believe any of the current criminals in charge will do any real time.

    We are too far gone. Deal with it.

  107. 107
    Jeffro says:

    @Elizabelle: co-sign

  108. 108
    NotMax says:

    @Elizabelle

    Someone was a fan of Red Dwarf?

  109. 109

    @NotMax: I thought it was “The CHAIR is not my son”.*

    *(H/T to Letterman.)

  110. 110

    @Immanentize: The size of the courts is set by statute. Just saying.

    ETA: As is the size of the House, just saying.

  111. 111
    different-church-lady says:

    @TenguPhule: Dammit, don’t you care about their economic anxiety?

  112. 112
    Jeffro says:

    @germy: @Redshift: I am still shocked that they did not leak two dozen different versions of Trumpov’s tax returns…

    … actually makes sense not to do that until and unless a legitimate tax return was released, and then you would want to drop the two dozen fake ones to muddy the waters.

  113. 113
    germy says:

    Adam Schiff: “That Donald Trump Jr. and Wikileaks would discuss coordinating their efforts to highlight information damaging to Clinton… demonstrates once again a willingness by the highest levels of the Trump campaign to accept foreign assistance.” pic.twitter.com/EOHcsYiMFr— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) November 13, 2017

  114. 114
    Elizabelle says:

    @Trentrunner: My dear friend, you were assuring us that we were doomed, doomed you told us, in Virginia, just last week. If memory serves. Democrats were doomed.

    What, about this saga, has come about in any kind of predictable manner? No question that McConnell stole that USSC seat but good, but I am hoping we have some pleasant (for us) surprises ahead. Plus, sounds like Gorsuch is a douche and, while a reliable con-vote, perhaps not the persuadable to his colleagues guy that could do more damage.

    News is pretty grim, but I am always looking for those silver linings.

  115. 115
    lamh36 says:

    @juliaioffe
    35m35 minutes ago
    More
    I guess now is the time to let you all know that Wikileaks blocked me on Twitter over a year ago.

  116. 116
  117. 117
    Davebo says:

    Glenn Greenwald is awfully quiet.

  118. 118
    Elizabelle says:

    @vhh: Yeah. Mercer has multi-billion dollar taxes owed.

    When I got to that paragraph in Jane Mayer’s “Dark Money”, I did a double take. Jebus.

  119. 119
    TenguPhule says:

    @different-church-lady: I do, which is why they’ll be sentenced to involuntary servitude and worked 18 hours a day for the right to eat and sleep.

  120. 120
    Dave says:

    @TenguPhule: No. Stop going there.

  121. 121
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Trentrunner:
    Unless Gorsuch bites the bullet. Literally.

  122. 122
    Elizabelle says:

    @realbtl: Tinker Traitor Stupid Spy. Works for me.

    I am going to love it if they take the Trump criminal cartel out because of EMAILS!

  123. 123
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Explains a little more why he’d be willing to spend several millions to elect the guy who pledged to gut the IRS, doesn’t it?

  124. 124
    TenguPhule says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: Polonium is slower and more certain. And as a bonus, easily blamed on Russia.

  125. 125
    Immanentize says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I know. Of course. But when people retire — or don’t, is always in flux. The fact that one can’t “pack” the courts, because of the statutory numbers, is actually a great comfort to me.

  126. 126

    @Elizabelle: Yeah but this time trent is actually right, not like when he said Northam would lose because he’s a big ol racist, as opposed to what actually happened, where he won by nine points and also is not a big ol racist.

  127. 127
    Elizabelle says:

    @Mnemosyne: No question. All of them. Robber Baron type actual robbers.

    And the Koch Brothers. Living (palatially) in living hell Kansas Brownbackistan. Villains, all of them. But most Americans don’t know anything about them. Nothing.

  128. 128
    clay says:

    @germy: Just as a reminder, here’s Trump’s own CIA director (NYT, I know, I know)

    “It’s time to call out WikiLeaks for what it really is: a nonstate hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like Russia,” he said.

    During the presidential campaign, Mr. Pompeo said, “Russian military intelligence, the G.R.U., had used WikiLeaks to release data of U.S. victims that the G.R.U. had obtained through cyberoperations against the Democratic National Committee.”

    He also said that Mr. Assange, who has spent nearly five years holed up in the Ecuadorean embassy in London to avoid extradition on sexual assault charges in Sweden, did not enjoy First Amendment protections.

    “No one has the right to engage in the theft of secrets from America,” Mr. Pompeo said.

    I can’t wait until Senators get to ask him what should be done with Americans who collaborate with “a nonstate hostile intelligence service”.

  129. 129
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    Look, neither Assange nor Junior were 14 at the time.

    This was all, like, totally consensual between adults.

  130. 130
    Immanentize says:

    @Davebo:

    Glenn Greenwald is awfully quiet.

    He is busy drafting his master screed — against Hillary and Tom Perez!

  131. 131
    Kay says:

    Oh, yay. I didn’t really know about “coordination”. They all seem so dumb and coddled and lazy it’s hard to imagine them working well in a conspiracy effort. Working well anywhere, in anything.

    Raise your hand if you knew Pence was a liar though- that was an easy call.

  132. 132
    bluefish says:

    Just tweeted kudos to Ms. Ioffe — amazing reporting for which I’m immensely grateful. This would be the moment I’ve been waiting for. All of them, the lot of them, perped walked out is my ultimate fantasy. Long live the reality dwellers. And the American press.

  133. 133
    Immanentize says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Mercer has multi-billion dollar taxes owed.

    I heard he was going to do a ‘Cliven’ and get mercs to cover him when the FBI comes to arrest him.

  134. 134
    TenguPhule says:

    @Immanentize: Or double checking his exit strategy.

    A lot of people have questions he could answer.

    And a lot more people probably want to shut him up.

  135. 135
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    Didn’t Pence’s own brother recently talk about the fact that Pence was known to “borrow” funds from his campaign for personal expenses?

  136. 136
    Kay says:

    Getting ahead of ourselves PERHAPS but I didn’t dare even dream about a scenario where PENCE is implicated too!

    What if they get them all? Trump, Pence, Kushner, the horrible Trump children and Sessions? A girl can dream. Who else? There has to be someone in Congress.

  137. 137
    Mike J says:

    Jonathan Nichols‏ @wvualphasoldier 5 minutes ago

    WikiLeaks spycraft is so juvenile that ya gotta wonder if Roy Moore touched them.

  138. 138
    Immanentize says:

    @clay: Methinks Pompeo was visited by some serious people in the Company.

  139. 139
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    They all seem so dumb and coddled and lazy it’s hard to imagine them working well in a conspiracy effort.

    Eventually 10,000 monkeys banging on keyboards did come up with with a literary masterpiece.

    RIchard III, set in 2017.

  140. 140
    Immanentize says:

    @Kay: Two hands held high

  141. 141
    Immanentize says:

    @TenguPhule: That is an interesting idea. Tru dat.

  142. 142
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    What if they get them all? Trump, Pence, Kushner, the horrible Trump children and Sessions? A girl can dream. Who else? There has to be someone in Congress.

    Gotta catch em all!

    Reverse Pokemon, only they get crammed into those little spheres obviously not big enough to hold all of their body mass.

  143. 143
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:
    Race Bannon is up to his eyeballs in
    Flynn
    The Comey firing

    Of course, he was lying 😠

  144. 144
    Kay says:

    .@SenSherrodBrown: If you want to cut taxes for middle class, maybe we ought to cut taxes for the middle class.

    He’s so naive :)

    They don’t want to, Sherrod. They want to pay off their billionaire co-conspirators.

  145. 145
    Yarrow says:

    @Kay:

    Getting ahead of ourselves PERHAPS but I didn’t dare even dream about a scenario where PENCE is implicated too!

    He’s implicated. Manafort will give him up.

    What if they get them all? Trump, Pence, Kushner, the horrible Trump children and Sessions? A girl can dream. Who else? There has to be someone in Congress.

    In the line of succession the first one who appears to be clean is Hatch. Next after that is Mattis.

    Been saying for a long time now, the’re all going down. They’re all traitors. All of them. Even the RNC itself is involved.

  146. 146
    Immanentize says:

    @Kay: Pence has to happen early. Maybe soon? Like Agnew. And Sessions is Mitchell? If Roger Stone is Director, it is likely a revival….

  147. 147
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    I don’t care about Bannon as much as other people do. If they stopped covering Bannon for 2 weeks he would melt away into nothing. It’s all bullshit and self-promotion. He’s a nobody.

    A sitting member of Congress would be much better.

  148. 148
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    A sitting member of Congress would be much better.

    Or even a standing one. Let’s not be too picky here.

  149. 149
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:
    Rorbacher
    Nunes
    I believe that either/and ZEGK, The Turtle

  150. 150
    debbie says:

    @Kay:

    Sherrod’s been on fire lately!

  151. 151
    TenguPhule says:

    @Yarrow:

    In the line of succession the first one who appears to be clean is Hatch.

    Hatch is dirty. He was throwing shade for some of Trump’s appointees. And looked the other way on several scandals that broke out this year.

  152. 152
    Immanentize says:

    @Kay: But I DO care about Stephen Miller, Handmaiden to J.B. Sessions.

  153. 153
    les says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Living (palatially) in living hell Kansas Brownbackistan.

    Not so much; for tax purposes, yeah, but Bill at least lives at his Colorado ranch, where he built an old West town just for himself.

  154. 154
    Elizabelle says:

    @Yarrow: I’d like them to go down after Dems retake the House.

    And: President Pelosi. Ascended from Speaker of the House, since GOP can’t get it together. Why is that more farfetched than other scenarios?

    And it is morally wrong to leave the Executive branch in GOP hands, if they cheated to game the Electoral College. It would continue the illegitimacy of this sordid, corrupt, criminal administration.

  155. 155
    Yarrow says:

    @TenguPhule: Covering for appointees isn’t the same as being a traitor and working for Russia. In any case, he’s very old. I don’t think he’d want to be president. He’s hinting at retiring as Senator and Romney is making noises about running for his seat.

  156. 156
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Hey, you never know! Gorsuck could meet an untimely end. I can’t believe I’m at a place where I’m actively wishing death on a Supreme Court Justice, but goddamn this is what happens when you try to cut off all avenues of peaceful transfer/removal of your government from power and gain a SC seat through brazen treason.

  157. 157
    Elizabelle says:

    @les: Le sigh.

  158. 158
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kay: I disagree. Bannon needs to be tried, convicted and executed publicly for crimes against the United States.

  159. 159
    Kay says:

    @Immanentize:

    Right. Agreed. They gave him actual power. I don’t care about Stone either. For one thing I’m sick unto death of hearing about his clothes. Who gives a shit what this evil hack wears? I feel like they love him because he’s so perfect for those glowing “evil genius” narratives.

  160. 160
    realbtl says:

    @NotMax: You are right -mutters shit how could I have missed it and goes back lurking.

  161. 161
    TenguPhule says:

    @Yarrow:

    Covering for appointees isn’t the same as being a traitor and working for Russia.

    He was covering for appointees who are traitors working for Russia though.

    At this point, guilty until and unless overwhelming proof of innocence is the rule for Republicans.

  162. 162
    Yarrow says:

    @Elizabelle: I doubt it’s all going to happen immediately. And we all know Trump will throw everyone under the bus before he goes. It’s going to get very, very ugly. 2018 campaigns are off and running already. Even if Ryan is removed (he will be–he’s a traitor) and another Republican takes his place, that person will only be a caretaker.

  163. 163
    MCA1 says:

    This is getting rather complex, even for some of us who’ve been following along. Can someone connect the dots here in a simple way?

    Am I missing some intermediate steps or connectivity between 1. Russia hacked DNC e-mails and 2. enlisted Wikileaks to disseminate, and then…X. Wikileaks tips DTJr. off to the launch of a website that seems to have a goal of documenting Trump/Russia connections, and asks if he knows who’s behind it, and X+1. DTJr. doesn’t immediately say “I don’t know why you would tell me about this but it’s inappropriate to be hacking a website, even one that may be operated by political opponents” or something similar?

    Or is that it? Further establishment of, at best, a careless and ignorant disregard for the law and the general rule of “if you hear about someone’s illegal activity, you should call law enforcement instead of engage with them?” Are we talking ignorantly blundering into being part of a conspiracy here, or is there some agency I’m missing in Jr.’s actions?

  164. 164
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @The Moar You Know: What incentive would he have to come clean? He’s as much of a liar as the Trumps. I’m not sure he would tell the truth.

  165. 165
    TenguPhule says:

    @Corner Stone: Seconded.

    We need some serious consequences to happen for treason, or else everyone else is going to keep on doing it.

  166. 166

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: True. I more meant that, short of Gorsuch being impeached for not having “good behavior”, whatever that means (his own, not that of the senators and president who put him in power), we have no mechanism for getting rid of him, just like we can’t wave a wand and overturn the rest of the repercussions of the election.

    @Kay: Anybody who mentions his clothes should be forced to give equal time to the large tattoo of Richard Nixon he has on his back.

  167. 167
    lamh36 says:

    two questions: 1)when is Mueller supposed to be interviewing Hope Hicks 2)when is Chump back from Asia…

  168. 168
    Yarrow says:

    @lamh36:

    @juliaioffe
    Follow Follow @juliaioffe
    More
    We’ve now updated the story with @ByronTau’s great catch: @realDonaldTrump tweeted about the release of Podesta’s emails *15 minutes* after @Wikileaks wrote to @DonaldJTrumpJr about it.

    There’s a Russian who tweeted at Trump to talk about things and he’d do it at the next campaign stop. They were directing him. Wikileaks was just another avenue. As Adam says, penetration at all levels.

  169. 169
    Emma says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Sure we can. We can pack the courts. Let the bastards scream themselves hoarse.

  170. 170
    Kay says:

    We have a conservative county court judge here- I have known him a long time. He retired last year- aged out- but for a decade he has been teasing me about being a Democrat -“there’s one!- the joke is “one”- get it? I saw him today he’s a VJ (visiting judge) and so I asked him (nicely) if he was happy with Trump. He no longer wants to talk about politics :)

    They’re really SUCH cowards. I wouldn’t have given him that much shit. I just want him to admit this is a train wreck. I would admit if Trump were a Democrat! They’re planning on pretending this isn’t happening.

  171. 171
    Yarrow says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Bannon needs to be tried, convicted and executed publicly for crimes against the United States.

    Yep. Actions have consequences. Tick tock, motherfuckers.

  172. 172
    Schlemazel says:

    @germy:
    So they could alter them & feed them to some really gullible dipstick who would trumpet his or her great coup and then be proven as fake as a TANG service record thereby ending any discussion of hair furor’s returns

  173. 173
  174. 174
    MomSense says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Hell in my neck of the woods, they are still certain that Hillary will be indicted any day now. I don’t see them accepting the results of a Mueller investigation if it is anything other than Hillary and Obama going to jail.

    Also, too I’m considering learning to use a shotgun.

  175. 175
    Schlemazel says:

    @germy:
    Except Dump would sell all his children down river if it meant he skates. It would be sad if the kids are too stupid to see that coming

  176. 176
    NotMax says:

    @realbtl

    Hoping that you’re not a-gonna disappear.

  177. 177
    Yarrow says:

    @MCA1: The conspiracy is that Russia owns the Trump family and Trump organization. Jr. himself said they have a ton of Russian money. They have been laundering money for Russia for years. That’s against the law. Then Trump decides to run for President and suddenly Russia has leverage. They tell the entire Trump team what to do and when to do it or they’ll make public all the info about their illegal money-laundering. And the Trump team does what they says.

    Mueller has the goods. He’s just letting everyone involved hang themselves by saying things that aren’t true in public. He’ll be happy to use those lies in court. Or use them as leverage for the next person he’s dealing with.

  178. 178
    NotMax says:

    @lamh36

    Answer to #2 is after the ASEAN conference being held on the 14th.

  179. 179

    @Emma: That’s not actually a mechanism for getting rid of him.

  180. 180
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Mnemosyne: Wouldn’t it have been just as cost effective to pay his flippin’ taxes?

  181. 181
  182. 182
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Kay:

    That’s what I’ve observed. The hairdresser who was screaming before the election about Hillary having BLM at her convention now never mentions politics, and it’s as if Trump doesn’t even exist.

  183. 183
    lamh36 says:

    OT:

    @NewYorker
    Roy Moore had been banned from a mall in Gadsden, Alabama, because he badgered teen girls, residents of the town, including lawyers and cops, say: http://nyer.cm/H7BvOQN
    https://twitter.com/NewYorker/status/930215276884430848

  184. 184
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    They’re planning on pretending this isn’t happening.

    That’s the strategy my one Trumper relative has chosen. Donald who? seems to be her plan for the next family reunion.

    @MomSense:

    Ugh. That’s scary. As I learned from Roger and Me, a shotgun is a great home defense weapon because you may not even have to load it to scare someone off — you can just rack it and tell them to leave. Or you could do the classic rock salt load if you wanted something less lethal.

  185. 185
    Baud says:

    @MomSense:

    Hell in my neck of the woods, they are still certain that Hillary will be indicted any day now.

    You live near Nina Turner?

  186. 186
    MomSense says:

    @Immanentize:

    I’m pretty sure that Bobby Three Sticks has a lot of intelligence. The thing that was largely lost during the hair on fire discussions of how the terrible US was surveillance people like Merkle, was that all of our allies are surveilling us. I’m sure the communications of everyone in Manafort and Flynn’s circles were captured. Of course they were listening to more than just those two. The point is that I bet Mueller has a ton of intelligence and his team will methodically gonafter each person involved.

  187. 187
    Yarrow says:

    Isn’t “conspiracy” something you can be charged with and declared guilty of, while “collusion” is neither of those things? If so, let’s start saying the Republicans and Trump are guilty of conspiracy because that’s something they can go to prison for.

  188. 188
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Gelfling 545:

    Billions vs millions? Hell, no. It’s much cheaper at this point for him to spend mere millions to save billions.

  189. 189
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    @MCA1: That’s pretty much it. Ioffe doesn’t connect the dots well in her piece. She has now added a connection that Byron Tau found and tweeted:

    “Strongly suggest your dad tweets this link if he mentions us,” WikiLeaks went on, pointing Trump Jr. to the link wlsearch.tk, which it said would help Trump’s followers dig through the trove of stolen documents and find stories. “There’s many great stories the press are missing and we’re sure some of your follows [sic] will find it,” WikiLeaks went on. “Btw we just released Podesta Emails Part 4.”

    Trump Jr. did not respond to this message. But just 15 minutes after it was sent, as The Wall Street Journal’s Byron Tau pointed out, Donald Trump himself tweeted, “Very little pick-up by the dishonest media of incredible information provided by WikiLeaks. So dishonest! Rigged system!”

    I would like to see the emails themselves so I can make a timeline, although Axios has one apparently derived from the Ioffe article.

    On the one hand, this is circumstantial evidence in the legal sense. On the other, the sheer numbers of Russian contacts and Don Junior’s willingness to go along with anyone who offers him dirt on Clinton, no thoughts that maybe what they’re doing is illegal, suggest that something is badly wrong here. Mueller’s operation has more, and I think they are trying to produce airtight cases to bring to the grand juries. This isn’t that.

    But politically Ryan and McConnell are ultimately corrupt in tolerating this so they can get their tax redistributions to gazillionaires.

  190. 190
    Kay says:

    One of the weirdest things about Trump Jr.’s contact with WikiLeaks: He told Kellyanne Conway, Steve Bannon, Jared Kushner and Brad Parscale about it….Why?

    That was actually smart. The more people he brings in the better. For him. If it goes bad. It’s literally the only good thing about the Trumps- they always do what’s best for them personally.

    This is why I didn’t believe the scope of “conspiracy”- they’re all so selfish. They can’t work with other people. They work for themselves. Only.

  191. 191
    Corner Stone says:

    @Schlemazel: Ivanka already has a plan to sell out her Daddy and JarJar to save her ass. Book that.

  192. 192
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    I can’t believe I’m at a place where I’m actively wishing death on a Supreme Court Justice

    I’ve been a lawyer since the nineties and I’ve been wishing this since the nineties

  193. 193
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kay: I just think Don Jr was too stupid to know what to do next.

  194. 194
    lamh36 says:

    ETA: Presser already happened:

    elainaplott
    8m8 minutes ago
    More
    This is bizarre. Press conference was organized just in the last hour. He and his wife gave those brief statements and he took no questions.

  195. 195
    Yarrow says:

    @Corner Stone: Watch the Baku, Azerbaijan fake Trump hotel deal wrt Ivanka’s guilt. Orange is the new traitor.

  196. 196
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    They’re planning on pretending this isn’t happening.

    To be fair, they did this with Bush Jr.

    And it worked out for them.

  197. 197

    @lamh36:

    Roy Moore had been banned from a mall in Gadsden, Alabama

    no step on snek

  198. 198
    TenguPhule says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I just think Don Jr was too stupid to know what to do next.

    I think he simply chose to do the stupidest things possible.

  199. 199
    Elizabelle says:

    @Yarrow: I think that is what it is too. Russian money laundering, Russians pretty much holding up the Trump Organization and Trump properties.

  200. 200
    MomSense says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    One of my friends has quite the collection of rifles but the range is too far for where I live. I am pretty good with a bow and arrow but that is too silent. I want the dramatic sound of cocking the shotgun.
    @Baud:

    Thankfully not, but we do have lots of Fox watching lobstermen. My mom does live near Nina and she is also a Bernie bot. Ugh.

  201. 201
    Baud says:

    @Steve in the ATL: To be fair, it’s kind of the natural result of a lifetime appointment.

  202. 202
    lamh36 says:

    @elainaplott
    Follow Follow @elainaplott
    More
    Moore’s wife speaks. Says, “He has never one time lifted a finger to me…he’s godly, he’s loving, and everyone in this community knows it.”
    5:34 PM – 13 Nov 2017

  203. 203
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    @MCA1: This is a good question, not yet fully answered.

    Are we talking ignorantly blundering into being part of a conspiracy here, or is there some agency I’m missing in Jr.’s actions?

    The emails that Ioffe has tend to argue against ignorantly blundering. It could have started out that way, but after some point, even Don Junior had to have figured out what was going down.

    It’s a central question I have, and it may not be answered for some time. Who knew what and when did they know it? How did all those flyover country bumpkin types like Jeff Sessions and Sam Clovis get connected to the Russians? Was it their initiative or the Russians’? Are they really so stupid they couldn’t tell they were being recruited? And where did Carter Page and George Pappadopoulos come from?

  204. 204
    TenguPhule says:

    @lamh36: If true, Moore should drop his election bid.

  205. 205
    TenguPhule says:

    @lamh36: You really have to admire all the things she carefully did not say.

  206. 206
    Baud says:

    @MomSense: Can you cut her out of your will?

  207. 207
    chris says:

    @lamh36: Priceless!

  208. 208
    No Drought No More says:

    The suggestion that Australia be asked to nominate Assange as its ambassador to the U.S. is as cute as Enron employees bragging about raping all the Aunt Millies in California while they stole her money.

    No mercy for any of the fuckers, either, not this time. America can’t afford it. Republican party scum must be severely punished this time around, unlike the republicans of Watergate, or of Iran-Contra, or those that successfully plotted the unholy War in Iraq; this time they must be imprisoned, or if pardoned, hounded every day of the rest of their lives as traitors to their country, and everything good it stands for. Kumbaya? Nyet!

  209. 209
    lamh36 says:

    @elainaplott
    12m12 minutes ago
    More
    Moore: This is absolutely false…I don’t even know the woman. I don’t know anything about her.

    @elainaplott
    12m12 minutes ago
    More
    Moore: This has nothing to do with reality.

    @elainaplott
    12m12 minutes ago
    More
    Moore’s wife speaks. Says, “He has never one time lifted a finger to me…he’s godly, he’s loving, and everyone in this community knows it.”

    @elainaplott
    12m12 minutes ago
    More
    Moore’s wife: “It’s ugly. It’s politics. It’s the ugliest politics I’ve ever been in in my life.”

    @elainaplott
    11m11 minutes ago
    More
    This is bizarre. Press conference was organized just in the last hour. He and his wife gave those brief statements and he took no questions.

    @elainaplott
    11m11 minutes ago
    More
    Which makes it, well, not a press conference. It was open to Alabama outlets only. I’m truly unclear on what the purpose of this was.

    @elainaplott
    7m7 minutes ago
    More
    To be clear: Moore says he has never met a woman whose yearbook appears to have a message from him with his signature.

  210. 210
    Schlemazel says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    If you pull a gun on someone, particularly if they are attacking your home, you better be ready & able to kill your target. No to rock salt & no to an unloaded weapon. If they are attacking the odds are they are armed so you are now dead because they are not scared off. Also, do not believe the movies, getting hit with a shotgun blast is not going to knock the recipient back 5 feet, action=reaction. If they are true wingnuts they may be armored.

    If you are going to play out these scenarios understand what you are going to be doing & how it actually works. It might be better to run if you can’t kill.

  211. 211
    TenguPhule says:

    @No Drought No More:

    or if pardoned, hounded every day of the rest of their lives as traitors to their country

    Or for once, the CIA could do their job and deal with those people.

  212. 212
    debbie says:

    @lamh36:

    Which has what to do with what?

  213. 213
    Mike J says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    a shotgun is a great home defense weapon because you may not even have to load it to scare someone off — you can just rack it and tell them to leave. Or you could do the classic rock salt load if you wanted something less lethal.

    You shouldn’t threaten someone with a gun unless you’re prepared to carry through with your threat. They may be armed too.

  214. 214
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @lamh36: Otherwise known as trying to lie his behind out of this mess. He’s already admitted to asking mothers to date their daughters which suggests that he has a propensity for dating underage girls. I can’t see him squiggling out of this one.

  215. 215
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    As I learned from Roger and Me, a shotgun is a great home defense weapon because you may not even have to load it to scare someone off — you can just rack it and tell them to leave.

    No. No. No.

    If you’re not willing to kill, don’t brandish a weapon.

    Once you escalate, its for keeps.

  216. 216
    Baud says:

    @lamh36:

    Moore’s wife speaks. Says, “He has never one time lifted a finger to me…

    So he’s done it at least twice.

  217. 217
    MCA1 says:

    @Yarrow: No, I know all that backstory. What I don’t quite see is the specifics at play here, with someone at Wikileaks e-mailing Jr. about a new website that’s going to be critical about his farther (and that specific backstory), and asking if he has any “comments.” It’s certainly weird that he would respond by saying “Off the record” (probably meant “off the top of my head” but he’s an idiot) he didn’t recognize the names of who was behind that site, and saying he’d “ask around” about it.

    Are you saying that Russian handlers were reaching out through Wikileaks to ask for help in destroying/discrediting this nascent putintrump.org group? Using coded, neutral sounding language like “any comments” and such? It’s of a piece with later asking for tax returns and other things to combat the growing “Wikileaks is a shill for Putin” narrative? And is made more plausible by this other instance of Drumpf Sr. tweeting about Podesta’s e-mails almost immediately after Wikileaks had e-mailed Jr. about them?

    The Veselnitskaya/Manafort/Jr./Kush meeting seems straightforward enough, with the Magnitsky Act being everyone’s cover story. This one just confuses me a bit.

  218. 218

    @TenguPhule: And what, pray tell, is the CIA’s “job” when it comes to American citizens who have been pardoned of all crimes?

  219. 219
    MomSense says:

    @Baud:

    At least she voted for Hillz so we just refrain from discussing him. I actually think she has a bit of a crush. Ew.

  220. 220
    Kay says:

    @lamh36:

    Moore’s wife should stop stealing from donors to that bogus charity and get a real job. She’s a crook too and that was revealed before we found out all this crap about her husband.

    The Foundation for Moral Law’s website routinely promoted Moore’s speaking engagements and his book, “So Help Me God: The Ten Commandments, Judicial Tyranny, and the Battle for Religious Freedom.” In his last two years as president, as fundraising dwindled, Moore’s compensation amounted to about a third of the contributions to the group, tax filings show.
    The charity has employed at least two of Moore’s children, although their compensation is not reflected in tax filings. Moore’s wife, Kayla, who is now president, was paid a total of $195,000 over three years through 2015.

    The whole family were living off this sucker gravy train. They’re bad people. All of them.

  221. 221
    Jeffro says:

    @Kay: they are hoping that somehow it all peters out with them (Republicans, white folks, take your pick) still on top and in charge

    Up to us to make sure they never forget … at least not up to the limits of Americans usual attention spans

  222. 222
    lamh36 says:

    @TenguPhule: IKR…like lady…no one is talking about Moore “lifting a finger” against you…what wasn’t said in the presser was that Moore was dropping out.

  223. 223
    lamh36 says:

    Love to hear what BJ lawyers and those in the know think about this…

    @rgoodlaw
    Follow Follow @rgoodlaw
    More
    Everyone reading the story on Don Trump Jr’s emails with Wikileaks, should read former White House Counsel Bob Bauer on when coordination of campaign activities with a foriegn national (think: Wikileaks) is a federal crime:
    https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/930193646816776193

  224. 224
    Baud says:

    @lamh36: He’ll never drop out.

  225. 225
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @TenguPhule:
    Don’t muggers brandish weapons and successfully get away without firing a shot all the time?

  226. 226
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I understand kidnapping and rendition to black sites for lengthy interrogation is now customary. Just because they’ve been pardoned of known crimes doesn’t mean they can’t be sifted for useful counter intelligence. And if they’re broken in the process, that would be a bonus.

  227. 227
    TenguPhule says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: That’s because its generally understood that they will use those weapons on those who resist. Most of the time, people just give them what they want because its not worth risking death over.

    But when things go wrong……

  228. 228
    Corner Stone says:

    Along with the Mercers, Kochs, Bezos, Joe Ricketts and Adelsons. We need to include the Zuckerbergs and Sheryl Sandberg when we start confiscating wealth.

  229. 229
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud: And used all of his fingers.

  230. 230
    TenguPhule says:

    @Corner Stone: Gonna need a bigger digital bank book.

  231. 231
    lamh36 says:

    @bentaub91
    Follow Follow @bentaub91
    More
    “The general knowledge at the time when I moved here was that this guy is a lawyer cruising the mall for high-school dates.” Read @charlesbethea on Roy Moore’s sleazy visits to the Gadsen Mall:

  232. 232
    Schlemazel says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:
    Not all the time, occasionally they get shot for their efforts. But a mugging is an entirely different set of circumstances. For one the mugee is taken by surprise & not prepared for violence.

  233. 233
    Baud says:

    @Corner Stone: So never then.

  234. 234

    @TenguPhule: You mean we shouldn’t take our self-defense advice from Michael Moore movies?

  235. 235
    MCA1 says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Thanks for both of those responses, Cheryl. Glad to know I’m not way out in left field.

    It goes hand in hand with one of the Great Questions of our age: Is the Trump gang that stupid, that corrupt, that arrogant, or some combination of the foregoing? Their levels of complicity and the point at which they individually realized (if ever) that they’d been compromised and recruited, will be interesting to learn.

    I’ve long suspected that “there’s no collusion” has always meant “I didn’t realize they were using me this way.” Because they’re venal and corrupt, but also because they have a fatal case of Dunning-Krueger and assumed the world of international relations and politics and law operated the same way their previous worlds did. Which is why (among a hundred other lessons that America should but won’t learn from last year) we should insist on some basic experience in government and public service before you’re considered a viable candidate for f’ing President of the United States.

  236. 236
    Jeffro says:

    @Baud: seconded…he can grift off of this for years…

  237. 237

    @Baud: But it worked so well all the other times!
    //

  238. 238
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: That would be like taking political advice from Michael Moore.

  239. 239
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @TenguPhule:

    But when things go wrong……

    Mentally unstable men who fight crime in spandex are created?

  240. 240
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    And what, pray tell, is the CIA’s “job” when it comes to American citizens who have been pardoned of all crimes?

    Don’t be naive. And don’t make me agree with TenguPhule!

  241. 241
    Jeffro says:

    Flake just said that if the choice is between Roy Moore and a Democrat, “ no doubt I’d vote for the Democrat”

  242. 242

    @Steve in the ATL: I just like him to spell out that he thinks our spies should be in the business of extrajudicially executing our citizens…

  243. 243
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Schlemazel:

    I’m assuming that the people MomSense are dealing with are pathetic cowards who wouldn’t expect her to have a weapon at all, but point taken.

  244. 244
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Jeffro:
    Seriously? The choice should be obvious but it’s Alabama.

  245. 245
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Shouldn’t take self defense advice from any movie.

  246. 246
    GregB says:

    @Yarrow:

    Reince has been vewwy vewwy quiet lately.

  247. 247
    Corner Stone says:

    @Baud: Medicare for all and the expansion of Medicaid were recently unspeakable topics. They have not yet come to fruition but people are actually speaking/writing about the possibility.
    You can only push it and see if it takes roots.

  248. 248
    Baud says:

    @Jeffro:

    Flake just said that if the choice is between Roy Moore and a Democrat, “ no doubt I’d vote for the Democrat”

    As one should if it were Jeff Flake versus a Democrat.

  249. 249
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    That’s crazy talk! That’s already been outsourced to “private defense contractors”.

  250. 250
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Simply killing them wouldn’t be cost effective.

  251. 251
    Baud says:

    @Corner Stone: Universal health care is not a new topic in the U.S.

  252. 252
  253. 253
    burnspbesq says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    I’d like to see him hauled off in the dead of night by a British or American squad of law enforcement goons. He needs to be pumped dry of info.

    Where is Rainbow Six when you really need it?

  254. 254
    Corner Stone says:

    @Baud: When was the last time you heard elected officials speak approvingly about it, on the record, in the last 30 years?

  255. 255
    George says:

    I’m late to the game on this particular thread, but I just wanted to add: They all need to burn. Every last one of them.

  256. 256
    TenguPhule says:

    @Corner Stone:

    When was the last time you heard elected officials speak approvingly about it, on the record, in the last 30 years?

    2009?

  257. 257
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Corner Stone:
    Bernie Sanders?

  258. 258
    Baud says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Thirty years isn’t that long a time. And some people were pushing it at the time of Obamacare.

  259. 259
    Corner Stone says:

    That’s my point. It has become a topic to discuss over the last 10 years or so, after two or more generations poo-pooing the very notion and ridiculing anyone who mentioned it.
    Redistribution of wealth is a topic whose time has come. To start talking up, at least.

  260. 260
    burnspbesq says:

    @lamh36:

    Bauer knows his stuff. Assume correct until proven wrong.

  261. 261
    Yarrow says:

    @GregB: Very. Another quiet one is Rudy Giuliani.

  262. 262
    eric says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Not the Supreme Court. The remedy for Gorsuch is to add two more Justices,

  263. 263
    burnspbesq says:

    @No Drought No More:

    cute as Enron employees bragging about raping all the Aunt Millies in California while they stole her money.

    I’m a Californian, and I saw that movie in a theater across from Lincoln Center. Fuckers thought it was hilarious.

  264. 264
    cmorenc says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    @Tom Q: I definitely agree it’s the biggest political scandal in American history. I fervently hope that it will take Trump down. No other outcome is acceptable.

    Keep in mind that if Trum goes down, first Pence and then the Granny-Starver Ryan are next in line of presidential succession. That makes it harder to decide what kind of outcome to root for, ALTHOUGH an inside-straight sort of positive outcome is if all three of the following come true in timely coincidence:
    1) The dems retake the house in 2018 and the new congress has taken office;
    2) Trump doesn’t get actually forced out until after event #1;
    3) Pence gets taken down at the same time as Trump.

  265. 265
  266. 266
    realbtl says:

    @NotMax: Nah, here often, comment seldom. BTW I’ll be out on the Big Island early Feb, a temporary escape from Montana winter.

  267. 267
    Gravenstone says:

    @NotMax: I would actually pay money to see that attempted. Trump would break his everything whilst trying a moonwalk.

  268. 268
    dogwood says:

    @eric:
    The remedy for Gorsuch is to not have 7 million voters cast ballots for clowns like Johnson and Stein. Unfortunately, they will do it again.

  269. 269

    @Corner Stone: We need to come up with better terms. “Redistribution” might be unsalvageable, even though we do it every day.

  270. 270
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @lamh36:

    To be clear: Moore says he has never met a woman whose yearbook appears to have a message from him with his signature.

    So she forged his signature? Is that really what he is arguing? Wowzers! He must really think we were all born yesterday morning.

  271. 271
    Schlemazel says:

    @George:
    so say we all!

  272. 272
    J R in WV says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Because it isn’t really a transparency organization, it’s a stooge for the Russians, speaking of Assange and GG, who are the only people who matter when talking about Wikileaks.

    How do I score? and what’s the grading curve?

  273. 273
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Tom Q:

    but it’s like some in the press are waiting for Steve Doocy’s concurrence.

    I’m waiting for Steve Doocy to get in trouble for sexual harassment, myself. May never happen since Gretchen Carlson agreed to a gag order in the settlement over Ailes, and the worst he did may have been participation in a hostile work environment. But it sure seems like some kind of story there got buried.

  274. 274
    J R in WV says:

    @MomSense:

    I recommend a 20 gauge, less recoil, just as much impact. Pump Ithaca Featherlight is what wife gave me for christmas many years ago. For home defense you want an open choke, to let the load spread out quickly. Use single ought buckshot loads.

    The sound of a pump shotgun being pumped will have a bigger effect than actually shooting most guns. Everyone knows that metallic clacking sound.

  275. 275

    @eric: The point was that the number is NOT set by the Constitution, it can be changed by an act of Congress and signed by the President.

  276. 276
    J R in WV says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Not executing/murdering them. Holding them prisoner in an iron box in the tropics and interrogating them often on no particular schedule, on a diet of cornmeal and salt. And warm water to drink. And a bucket for waste. Dark. Noisy. No sense of time passing.

    I think on a diet of just corn the lack of a particular amino acid causes visions… they were expected of a shaman on a vision quest in a Kiva 1000 years ago. Not so much from a crooked politician…

    I don’t really approve of the death penalty, but these guys…. I dunno. Something serious needs to happen to them, regardless of pardons. Or else others will do it again, as was said above.

  277. 277
    SgrAstar says:

    @Corner Stone: We have to confiscate the wealth from ALL of them. Gates, Bezos, Laurene Jobs, Benioff, there are dozens and we need to tax it away. No hereditary oligarchs allowed. None. NONE. Disclosure: I founded a company and made quite a bit of coin. I’m giving all of it away. No bequests to family members.

  278. 278
    Corner Stone says:

    @SgrAstar: I agree. We set some super high number like $1B then confiscate all the rest of it. Then when they pass we tax anything over $10M at a 90% rate. No loopholes.
    I don’t care if their heirs are in charge of charitable foundations setup before they pass. But if they don’e meet a minimum guideline they get audited and penalized. No slushfunds. Do good with the money or get it taken.

  279. 279
    Doc H says:

    Hilarious

    @ChrisCuomo: Why’d he wait?

    @JeffreyToobin: Because he’s not that bright.

    Cuomo (as an aside): Wasn’t expecting that.

    Toobin: All of Don Jr’s behavior suggests someone who is really not a terrifically intelligent person

  280. 280
    hugely says:

    @Julia Grey: not that at all – if DJT Jr provides WikiLeaks a tax return they basically are giving away kompromat for free. Basically it was a ploy to see how stupid these mother fuckers are. Anyway dead thread

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