This is the only chart that explains anything about where you stand on the political spectrum. pic.twitter.com/CwZF9kdNe8
— Jeff B back in black (@EsotericCD) November 5, 2017
.
Of course NRO guy doesn’t approve, but my idea of the proper role for a modern American political party actually approximates “a labor union with national political sway” — i.e., a way for disparate groups to bargain for mutual benefit.
Of course, when I took the Pew Political Party Quiz* to which this tweet is a response, my final score was waaaay over beyond the leftmost blue/Democrat end of the scale. As would most of you fine jackals, I suspect…
*[which I can’t get to embed properly, but you can click over]
***********
Apart from taking online quizzes, what’s on the agenda as we start another week?
Baud
I would have liked to have seen where “Thinks Baud! should be president” fell on the spectrum.
R-Jud
@Baud: It’s the “this will never happen” square.
Baud
The problem is our side likes to go on strike a lot.
Baud
@R-Jud: Not with that attitude it won’t.
PeakVT
Gotta cover for another worker this week while he takes a (well-earned) vacation. 70 hours on tap.
Unrelated: I still f*cking hate Trump for giving me new reasons to f*cking hate him daily, in addition to all the other reasons.
LOL the motherf*cking WUT.
MattF
Just ask any Trotskyite. Ha ha. Um, no. Don’t do that.
Baud
@PeakVT: He obviously has never seen Gung Ho.
OzarkHillbilly
Heh, i’m way off the left hand side of the scale too.
@Baud: When was the last time a union in the US went on strike?
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: I hear it still happens now and then.
Cermet
I take offense with you saying we are ” fine jackals”; most of us are just run-of-the-mill jackals, thank you very much.
Oh, and good morning one and all – remember, mass murder by whites is just a mental health issue. Ok, we got that? No gun violence here, so thank you very much.
Hey, look over there – its Hillary … .
Joey Maloney
Problems in the world would be worse without US involvement vs. US efforts to solve problems around the world usually end up making things worse – needed a “Both” option.
Feathers
I to scored as far left as you can, which would be a surprise to some of my how-Cambridge-is-it friends who find me to be a horror show. (I believe that elementary school children should be taught about Native American culture, even if the teacher is not Native American.)
My main issue with the quiz was the foreign policy one. They are both true. American foreign policy, the quiet stuff that doesn’t make the news,makes the world a better place. When we decide to intervene, it is invariably a horrific shitshow.
ETA – See Joey beat me to it.
Elmo
@OzarkHillbilly: Happens more often than you think, but it doesn’t make national news unless it’s a big National Union striking a big corporation, like CWA striking ATT.
One of the unions I deal with struck us a couple years ago for six weeks. I was on Navy Pier a few months ago and there was an inflatable rat and a small informational picket. It happens. SteveinATL prolly has a few stories as well.
Central Planning
That chart above doesn’t make any sense to me. Did that guy just come up with a bunch of stereotypes and randomly place them on a bingo board?
And for the survey, I got as far left as possible too.
Some Dude
Yeah, I was off the edge on the left. I prefer the term ‘coyote’ to jackal though.
geg6
@OzarkHillbilly:
Teachers strike here all the time. They can only do it for a certain period of time, but they strike for years if necessary. My niece’s high school had the teachers striking and picketing for two years in a ow. Second year got the school board to finally negotiate in good faith.
Central Planning
@Feathers:
That’s controversial? How? How would students learn anything unless a member of that group could teach it? You have weird friends.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: There are labor actions (blue flu, work slowdowns) but I can’t remember the last time there was an actual honest to dog strike.
Kay
One of my son’s is an apprentice electrician. He’s working at the GM Powertrain facility right now and he says he and his roommate and fellow apprentice were approached outside the plant by this guy who said he was an “agent” for a contractor who does business in Dubai. The agent set up a meeting at a fancy steakhouse in Toledo and they went, after work but still in work clothes, to this restaurant. The guy was already there and he told them they could make 100k for 4 months electrical work on his project. One of the funnier parts of this interview – they asked the agent “do they have unions in Dubai?” and also “where is Dubai?”
They think it’s hinky so they’re not going to Dubai but isn’t that wild? I figure the next step in the scam was to tell them the agent needed money for a visa or work permit or something.
OzarkHillbilly
@Joey Maloney: I didn’t even answer that question.
rikyrah
Good Morning,Everyone ???
JPL
Is it possible to take the test and not score on the liberal spectrum?
@R-Jud: that made me laugh.. (sorry Baud)
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
OzarkHillbilly
The Paradise Papers.
Yeah but CLINTON!!!
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
Judging by the answers here and the sample question I saw Pew’s model is very flawed.
I normally score in the center of the green quadrant on these types of quizzes.
I think it would certainly help and be very cool, but as long as the teacher’s curriculum includes primary and secondary sources written and heavily influenced by Native Americans, along with an attitude of cultural sensitivity, it should be fine. Your “Cambridge” friends sound weird.
bystander
I grew up in Kansas City in the 1950s. We definitely learned about Native American culture, and it wasn’t presented as inferior or primitive.
All I actually remember is feeling glad I didn’t have to eat pemmican.
ETA Neither Miss Ruble nor Miss Williams were Native American. (Although Miss Williams was fond of wearing a large turquoise skirt covered in rickrack.)
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
Yep.
Cntl-F on the document dump.
“Hillary”
No hits. Not interested. /media
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@bystander:
Were they presented as “noble savages” stereotypes?
Bobby Thomson
It’s a bad instrument. When you force people to pick extreme choices you invariably wind up with extreme outcomes.
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
I’ve noticed Wikileaks seems to have abandoned their transparency mission since Trump was elected. Apparently some information doesn’t want to be free.
Lounger
@PeakVT: I remarked elsewhere that even the average Trump voter would find that remark shockingly ignorant.
Also occurred to me that as a very wealthy native New Yorker, he’s probably been chauffeured all his life and very likely never learned to drive.
Feathers
@Central Planning: Yeah. Every time someone says “Nobody actually believes that, I can say I know someone who does.” In this case, it’s really just a bright and shiny belief that the option of not teaching children about Native Americans at all does exist. I’m still loosely in the group, but definitely get the cold shoulder.
The most dangerous thought anyone ever had is “things can’t get any worse.”
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Kay: Stating the obvious, but WikiLeaks was evidently only ever about damaging the West. Did WL ever publish damaging leaks about Russia or China?
Baud
@Kay: That was my first observation when the news broke.
Baud
@Feathers:
QFT.
Kay
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
I don’t know. I always had a basic problem with a completely opaque and secretive transparency outfit. I can’t get past the essential contradiction there. I think it’s a fatal flaw. They don’t even have to omit information to be biased- they can just not look in one place and look in another. If there’s nothing on Trump and a boatload on Clinton then I only have half the story- the half they want me to have.
Matt
Modern conservatism has entirely degenerated into “STOP MAKING DADDY HIT YOU”:
https://twitter.com/NoahCRothman/status/926619938869137409
Somebody should check on these people’s kids.
SFAW
@bystander:
Umm … teachers talking about the latest Kansas City Chiefs game is not exactly “Native American culture.”
bystander
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: No, not noble savages. IIRC, they were presented as wronged but sidestepped the brutality and savagery of the white immigrants.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Matt:
LOL. “If you organize without managerial consent, they’ll retaliate”
Thanks Captain Obvious. That still doesn’t make it right.
bystander
@SFAW: No Chiefs in the 1950s. And no Royals either.
Immanentize
@Feathers: How about:
“it can’t happen here”?
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
He posted a photo on twitter and he looks really messed up! (Photo)
*
OzarkHillbilly
@Elmo:
That is not a strike. We (Carpenters) used to do that all the time to nonunion contractors. A “rat” is a nonunion worker. (personally, I don’t like calling people rats, especially when you want them to become union). Informational pickets are now little more than kabuki theater in construction. The contractor sets up 2 gates, one for all the union people, another for all the nonunion. The informational picket, by law, has to go up on the nonunion gate. The union guys, by law, have to use the union gate. Hence we weren’t, by law, crossing a picket line so we could not honor one.
Ronnie’s Rules.
Anne Laurie
@Kay:
Dubai’s globally notorious for luring in foreign workers and then taking their passports, so they can’t quit if (when) they’re mistreated and they can’t escape without being jailed. But every case I’ve heard about involved desperate ‘third world’ countries (Indonesia, Pakistan, the Philippines). Hopefully your son’s “agent” is just a scammer… cause I’d hate to think Dubai machers have decided that America is now one of those pitiful places where too many people are chasing too few jobs, and the national government doesn’t have the power to protect its expats from abuse!
TriassicSands
Looking at the spectrum, I was struck by two things. One, it does show that the average Republican is more conservative than the average Democrat is liberal. However, I think the average Republican is even more conservative than the Pew spectrum shows. Even more important, those people are voting for “average” Republican politicians who are much, much further to the right than the average Republican voter is. Republican voters are voting for people who are more conservative than they, the voters, are, because voting for a Democrat is simply not an option. And that is helping to wreck this country.
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly: I kinda like the big inflatable rat. I’ve seen it in front of buildings both in Boston and Philly. But I thought it was directed at the management, not the non-union workers? But I can see how it can serve as an all purpose insult.
Feathers
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: it’s actually a known phenomenon when social groups coalesce around an ideology. It’s how anti-abortion groups become anti birth control. You get attention and credibility for coming up with new ways to display allegiance to the group’s core belief. Unless there is a countervailing insistence on some connection to reality, you end up with a herd of purity ponies. Here’s an article about the same process at Reed College, although it sounds like some people are starting to push back: The Surprising Revolt at Reed
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
I love the giant inflatable rat, so do it for the 7th graders in your target market. Also “Ratty” is an incredibly unimaginative name for a rat so extra points there :)
People need to have fun! No one really wants a flier.
Baud
@Feathers:
FTA
I find that pounding the table and yelling profanities usually wins the day.
I agree with your comment by the way.
OzarkHillbilly
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: He’s lucky he didn’t collapse a lung.
DHD
In the first good political news I’ve heard for roughly one year, up in Montreal we just elected the first female mayor in 375 years:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/for-val-rie-plante-pulling-off-the-greatest-political-upset-in-50-years-was-easy-now-comes-the-hard-part-1.4388855
Though since her opponent wasn’t really all that bad, despite bearing a strange resemblance to Mayor Quimby from the Simpsons and/or Fred Flintstone and/or a Minion, it’s maybe more notable that the city of Saguenay, which was ruled with an iron fist for over a decade by a guy who could legitimately be described as a Catholic fundamentalist theocrat, now also has a progressive female mayor.
Hope you all “win your elections” on Tuesday, as they say.
Kay
@Anne Laurie:
They went together so they wouldn’t be “kidnapped” – I felt like they were flattered to be so wanted.
The Powertrain job is the one they all wanted so the agent is recruiting outside the wrong place.
Baud
@DHD: Good news. Congrats!
Baud
@Anne Laurie:
Maybe Dubai thinks that more Americans are interested in leaving the country these days.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Kay: Agent must have been a “Professor” at Trump University.
gene108
@Kay:
You can make a lot of money in the Persian Gulf states. It is tax free earnings. Downside is your employer holds your passport, so if you want to quit you need their permission because you can’t leave the country. This is true of Indian nationals I know, who have worked their, and I have read this for people from other Asian countries, like the Philippines. I somehow think they will treat Americans better.
Kay
Well, I for one have a good feeling about VA. Don’t jinx it jackals. Democrats don’t respond to appeals to fear the way Republicans do so telling them the sky is falling won’t help. They have to be happy to vote. I know, they’re a giant pain in the ass but this is what they are. “Love wins” for Democrats. They have to be unicorn-hunting to come out.
Baud
CBS news
Betty Cracker
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Probably because Assange got tired of having to answer that question all the time, Wikileaks did dribble out some info stolen from Russia. But analysts said it didn’t reveal anything that wasn’t already known. Some even suggested that if Putin’s minions were to hand-select a “secret” cache of documents to publish online, they would have — and perhaps did — pick the docs Wikileaks published.
Baud
@Kay: We know for a fact that Love does not Trump Hate.
OzarkHillbilly
@Immanentize: No, it’s the workers. The very flawed idea is that union people will not support a nonunion shop, which is true to some very limited and ever shrinking extent, and hopefully pressure the company to hire union workers. Sometimes it even works. But if you want to unionize a nonunion shop, and my business rep spent a lot of time trying to, calling them ‘rats’ is not going to help.
It is a self defeating tactic in my opinion.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
How do you think we get those photos of shirtless Putin?
debbie
@Kay:
That’s like Sean Hannity getting his listeners to sell all their stuff and move to North Dakota for the fracking jobs. I still think he must have gotten a fee for each person who followed his suggestion.
la caterina (Mrs. Johannes)
@OzarkHillbilly: My shop (we’re part of the UAW’s Legal Services Staff Ass’n) struck for 6 weeks in 2013 and one of our sister shops struck for about the same length of time in early 2014-we walked the pickets with them in January. In New York City. Unionized lawyers are hardcore.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Several years back, I went to Columbus, OH to work with some folks on a project. I saw Ratty for the first time there, and I was thrilled to pieces. I could hardly get any work done!
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Feathers:
I understand the RAR has taken things a little far (“race traitors” seriously?), but my knee-jerk reaction to the above is that this person has probably internalized some right-wing tropes and beliefs. The tells for me are the use of “political correctness” and “identity politics”.
Everyone uses identity politics. It’s just less divisive when the community is more homogeneous because pretty much everyone has a shared identity.
Kay
@Baud:
Not to get too into the weeds on my crackpot theories but it wasn’t “love” in ’16- it was fear. Fear of Trump is fear. Has to be love. Fear didn’t work in ’04 either, fear of Bush. It just doesn’t work for us. I know not why. Obama was love. Sherrod Brown is love- a positive not a negative. It’s essential. Whenever you start with this is your DUTY it’s lost.
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Yeah, but what would an inflated scab balloon even look like?
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
I think every worker should have one. Blow that giant thing up and put it outside every time they’re mistreated. Store it in the utility closet.
Cat
AL, I think you got the monkey-paw version. This is what happens when you give the police union political sway.
debbie
@Kay:
No. I still say the vote was a middle finger to diversity and tolerance.
Baud
The Texas shooter had “anger issues.”. Thanks, GMA.
Chyron HR
@Kay:
But we need $50,000 by election day! Don’t ask why, it’s a very scientific number. Can we count on YOU to chip in $250 every hour?
OzarkHillbilly
@la caterina (Mrs. Johannes):
Heh.
Baud
@Kay: It wasn’t love because too many people on our side chose wingnut hate.
I for one came to appreciate Hillary to the point where I feel bad that I didn’t speak up for her sooner.
Elizabelle
Good morning, Jackals.
E minus 1 day in Virginia.
Nice article from the LA Times: With election stakes high, even local Virginia contests draw national volunteers and attention
WaPost, EJ Dionne: The Northam-Gillespie election is once in a lifetime
Problem with Virginia, they’re all high stakes elections. In 2013, Terry McAuliffe narrowly beat Ken Cuccinelli, who is crazy as fuck. The Ted Cruz-led government shutdown helped immeasurably there, but it was still close. Terry Mc has been an excellent governor; I was not expecting how good he has been.
Do the best thing, Virginia!
Baud
@Chyron HR: Dem fundraising emails suck. What I don’t know is whether they are effective.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Baud: yeah, vin isn’t woke. After the california primary in june 2016, in the middle of a game, he ranted against socializm. (video)
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Baud: He was a white man who served in the Air Force. Many people’s idea of a “red-blooded” American. GMA probably doesn’t want to explore too deeply what drove this guy to shoot up a church. That and avoid talking about guns.
Baud
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Apparently, he was an athiest who hated religion. So that’ll be the angle. He was an evil liberal.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
There’s a guy running for municipal judge in Ohio where I live. “Law and order” type. In his ad, out of nowhere, he cravenly and cynically stands up and says he “stands for the national anthem”. I really hope he doesn’t win.
Baud
I can’t believe we don’t know the motive of the Las Vegas shooter. That’s creepy.
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: Scabs are different from rats. Rats are people who work at nonunion shops. The idea is to pressure a company into getting rid of the nonunion shop and hire a union shop instead. A scab is a replacement worker for a striking union worker. As to what a giant inflatable scab would look like, something like the current occupant of the White House.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Baud:
The idea that anyone could become a mass murderer and we don’t know why? Yeah, that’s the stuff sci-fi horror is made of.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: yeah, I love those Colonel Flag episodes of MASH
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: Also, as a dishonorably discharged person he was barred from owning any weapons. I guess he borrowed them from someone.
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Thanks, didn’t realize there was a distinction. What do they call workers who work in union shops, get all the benefits, but don’t belong to the union or pay dues?
Baud
@Elizabelle: Virginia is always close. Our recent success with statewide offices makes us forget that.
Elizabelle
@Baud: He might have done it just because he could. What surprised me there was the possible existence of an escape plan. Don’t know if that was true or debunked.
Issue, though, is being able to acquire that arsenal without it ever coming to law enforcement notice. Ammo for the assault weapons too.
They don’t keep a database. It’s paper, because of the fucking NRA’s enablers.
A database might have alerted Colorado police to the Aurora theatre shooter. Massive online purchases of ammo. For what?
CDC doesn’t keep a database of gun deaths/injuries either. The Tennessee rep who did the NRA’s bidding to outlaw it came to regret that, decided that funding for and maintenance of a database was actually a good idea, but — it’s easier to destroy something than to build it. Dead now, too. (Jay Dickey.)
Elizabelle
@debbie: Free riders? Often, “Republicans” and Tea Partiers?
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
I’m still trying to process that Trump doesn’t know Japanese car companies build in the US. How did he accomplish that level of ignorance?
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Really? I found his ignorance really easy to process.
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: Sumbitches. I don’t really know. When I was still working real jobs, Misery was not (and may remain depending on voters) a Right to Work for Dirt state.
pat
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
He was born with it. Duh.
Elizabelle
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Blatant lack of curiosity. He does not read.
Not a detail that sunk in from whatever travels he made to Tennessee.
It’s just good the thinking world sees that one.
Kay
@Baud:
I did too and I’m actually “like” Clinton at work- I don’t like all that emoting and excess- I would go wooden too if asked what I consider personal questions. But-Michelle Obama wasn’t wrong. You do need love. And fun.
I wish it worked for Democrats because it’s easier to scare people than to attract them.
Patricia Kayden
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: This is the Bowling Green Massacre of which Kellyanne Conway spoke so eloquently. And all you liberal elitists heathens laughed in her face. For shame!!
Elizabelle
That chart is too cynical for so early in the morning.
Baud
@Kay: Frankly, if you are correct that Dems wait for love, then our people are complicit in what the Republicans are doing to this country. Maybe we should criticize them less, out of fairness.
la caterina (Mrs. Johannes)
@OzarkHillbilly: Our local is made up of staff at community based, poverty fighting organizations.
Kay
So that Rand Paul story seems….incomplete. I cannot stand him- the lecturing and phony libertarian sanctimony drives me fucking crazy- but I wouldn’t beat the shit out of him for that if I was his neighbor so there must be more.
Baud
@Kay: Agree. Rand hasn’t even been doing much lately, not nationally at least.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
I got far left on that quiz, then took it two more times, trying to get what Pew thinks is a moderate D. The first time I overshot and got R leaning Independent. The next time, I still got far left though maybe one notch less so. I can’t see what I’d have to give up on.
germy
@Kay: WaPo says the attacker was a “liberal” and got into heated discussions with him in the past.
rikyrah
Just wondering.
Ross ‘forgot’to include $ 2 Billion on his disclosure form.
Was the business with Putin’s family NOT part of the missing $ 2 Billion that he ‘forgot’?
rikyrah
@Kay:
Dropping those truths, Kay
Patricia Kayden
@Feathers: When reading about RAR, I wonder why does everything have to be taken to an extreme. When I attended University, there were groups which spoke up about racist incidents but none of them were disruptive or intentionally annoying. Looks like organizations like RAR may have their hearts in the right place but haven’t learned how to get their messages across in a rational, non-divisive manner. That’s a shame because they can be used as examples of political correctness gone mad.
Kay
@Baud:
I just loathe him for not admitting his constituents need Medicaid. What a jerk. Please. That whole electorate in that part of the country relies on federal bennies- which is FINE but stop with this bullshit about how it’s a matter of principle.
The GOP politicians are playing this stupid game where they tell these people they’re engaged in some noble struggle because that’s what their voters want to hear. It is the DEFINITION of pandering.
germy
@Kay:
source
rikyrah
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Someone in a wheelchair did all that damage to Rand Paul?
OzarkHillbilly
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
Thru great effort and vigilance.
Kay
@rikyrah:
Information wants to be free! Except information that harms far Right authoritarians. That information is happy in the dark and yearns to remain there. They’re basically assholes on a mission. Join the crowd.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Love wins???
Oh Kay
Betty Cracker
@rikyrah: As one of the many new laws and regulations that will have to be enacted to prevent another Trump disaster (should we survive the present one), I propose this rule: Any assets not disclosed on a government form for cabinet or presidential adviser-level positions is automatically forfeited to the U.S. Treasury. If $2B is sofa-cushion change to these people — insignificant enough to “forget” — they shouldn’t mind handing it over.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
Yes! I managed to achieve “moderate D” on that quiz. I said corporate profits were fair, world problems would be worse without the US. abortion should be legal in most cases, I favored (rather than strongly favored) marriage equality, Muslims should have more scrutiny, and diversity makes no difference to quality of national life.
Holy cow. Moderate Ds suck.
germy
Alec Baldwin Temporarily Quits Twitter Over Sexual-Harassment Comments; Promptly Tweets Crude Message to Asia Argento and Anthony Bourdain
SFAW
@bystander:
Astounding as it may seem, I was well aware of that.
I guess I could have used the KC/Omaha Kings, or the NY Mets, or the Seattle Pilots, to make it really obvious, but they didn’t exactly fit the “Native American” angle. In other words, it was a joke.
Kay
I have to go work, but VA people better vote or we’ll all look at you funny and with a LOT of suspicion- fair warning
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): That quiz sucks more.
HAL
So the guy who beat up Rand Paul is also a Doctor. There has to be more to this story than what’s being reported.
Kay
@HAL:
Political media love Rand Paul. In 10 years he’ll be the John McCain of his generation in terms of tire swinging.
SFAW
@OzarkHillbilly:
Oh, bullshit. When was the last time Shitgibbon did ANYTHING that involved “great effort and vigilance”? (Outside of trying to keep his Depends from getting too filled. “
MelaniaIvanka, I made a poopy! Come fix it!”)I am sick and tired of your lying in defense of Shitgibbon. Fie upon you!
OzarkHillbilly
heh.
ThresherK
@HAL: I got a dollar that says Rand Paul and his neighbor settled a property line dispute in the ulitmate Libertarian manner.
So…..I believe the neighbor gets the deed to Rand Paul’s sideyard now.
SFAW
@HAL:
“Also”? Where I come from, it takes more than creating your own “Board” of shills, who then “certify” you, to make one an actual Doctor.
Immanentize
@la caterina (Mrs. Johannes): I salute you and the work you do!
rikyrah
@Baud:
1. Virginia will be using paper ballots
2. This is the first election since McCauliffe restored voting rights to ex-felons.
OzarkHillbilly
@SFAW: Just you wait, MAGA’s gonna get you!
gene108
@Kay:
NJ votes tomorrow too, and no one pays the least bit of attention to us ?
Immanentize
@Kay: we just had a staff Union vote (SEIU) at my University for staff. The vote was a tie!! So, no Union because they need a majority. But they will be back!
bemused
@Kay:
Read on internet so take with huge handful of salt but supposedly a Paul family member said there was bad blood between Rand Paul and the neighbor though it would not be shocking if Rand Paul turned out to be a rotten neighbor.
Patricia Kayden
Mueller surely has enough fodder on which to indict Donny Jr.
Immanentize
@Baud: I actually bet someone knows. It’s just that we don’t know.
Baud
@gene108: No, that’s good. It’s because polls show Jersians are going to do the right thing after 8 long years.
Baud
@Immanentize: Why keep it secret?
bystander
@SFAW: “Kansas City Athletics” is included in most KC-related humor.
satby
@rikyrah: Good morning sweetie ☺
@Immanentize: I agree with you there. Maybe not “knows” but has good indications. And that those indicators aren’t helpful to a powerful organization that has purchased most of our Congress and state legislators on the cheap. So whatever motivation they can impute will be slow walked page 56 news when it is released.
satby
@Betty Cracker: I like it!
Matt McIrvin
@OzarkHillbilly: Worst Gloria Estefan pastiche ever.
Amir Khalid
@OzarkHillbilly:
Mr Jones is clearly not one to overstate his case.
chris
Took the quiz and I’m so far left there’s no name for it. Amusing that even Pew can’t bring themselves to put “social democrat” on the spectrum. Guess there is no such thing in America.
Immanentize
@Baud: The FBI gets real hinky sometimes when these things happen. Maybe there are others involved. Maybe they are working on a post-killing sting. Or maybe there is some odd complicity. Every scrap of a person’s life is hoovered up (pun intended). And this guy had family and he did not live off grid like Kaczynski. Someone has a really good idea or knows what the motive was. I can try to find out at Xmas time.
satby
I’m annoyed because the office manager changed the schedule without telling me (or even asking me if I was available), so I have to work this morning. But, scuttlebutt is that they’re bringing back a former worker, so I’m going to be able to ease out after the new year without leaving the doctor hanging. Yay!
Edited to add, I also scored super far left. Perhaps it’s PEW that doesn’t know what is actually super liberal.
Immanentize
@satby: Is the office manager trying to set you up? Or just more incompetence?
Matt McIrvin
@OzarkHillbilly: …Let’s just say, I assure you, it does happen. Is sometimes even quite successful on the strikers’ part.
rikyrah
The Terrorist yesterday was dishonorably discharged. Therefore, he should NOT have been able to get a gun.
HOW did he get his hands on that weapon of death?
raven
@rikyrah: BCD not Dishonorable.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
@rikyrah:
News this morning was speculating that his name wasn’t entered into the system.
Chyron HR
I got almost completely to the left of the spectrum on the Pew poll, but that’s only because they didn’t ask questions that would really indicate true progressive thought, like:
– Is Obama the worst president in history? (yes)
– Would you rather let the country die than vote for a Democrat? (yes)
– Are the white working class sainted beings comprised of pure luminescence? (yes)
Immanentize
@raven: True. Further, I do not think that the type of discharge ever is the basis for preventing gun ownership. The underlying conduct might be, but not the nature of the discharge itself.
Can anyone point me to something that shows me I’m wrong on this? I just can’t find it? Thanks.
clay
@Patricia Kayden: That seems to cover the quid and the quo.
But her emails!!!
More recent polls are looking a bit better for Northam. The weird Quinnipiac poll has come down to a more realistic 9 point advantage to Northam, but I’m particularly liking the Emmerson poll from 11-2 to 11-4 where Northam is still holding a 3 point advantage.
satby
@Immanentize: No, she’s just lousy at her job, but she’s been better since she got out on anti-anxiety meds ?.
I wouldn’t have known if the girl I’m filling in for hadn’t mentioned it yesterday. It is what it is.
OzarkHillbilly
@Matt McIrvin: Let me assure you, it has become very rare. The last one I remember in STL was 2013 (I think) on behalf of grocery workers at Schnucks. It was resolved and as with most such things there was give and take. They recently engaged in a labor action (not a strike) over Schnucks’ opening a new nonunion distribution center. Schnucks prevailed.
In all my years as a union carpenter there was never a strike. I do not recall any of the other construction unions striking either. I do recall a lot of fights among them over who gets to do what work as they fought over an ever shrinking pie.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
SHOCKER!
Immanentize
@satby: I am sorry, but glad you found out. Just starting anti-anxiety meds? Didn’t you say she’s in her 70’s? That makes me have some sympathy for her — if they are helping and it took her this long to get that treatment? (It’s upsetting to think about people who could have changed their lives with earlier treatment – maybe I should grab an Atavan myself…. ?)
OzarkHillbilly
@Immanentize:
I do not know the difference between a BCD and dishonourably discharged. Maybe there is some conflating going on.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Matt: The guy’s book is basically “Social Justice is destroying America” , so presumably, by his reasoning it was the actresses fault that Wiesmen raped them because they were so vulnerable.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@rikyrah: Must have been a BIG wheelchair.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: There is something bizarrely funny about Mr Alpha Plus Libertarian himself getting his ass kicked by a guy in a wheelchair, by why did it happen?
Matt McIrvin
@germy: Eerrgh, I expected that to be much worse than it is, but it’s not really surprising that Baldwin can be a #notallmen jerk. I’ve always figured that his ease in portraying evil asshole-boss figures comes from his recognition that his personality is actually like that.
Jeffro
Help, I’ve fallen off the far left side of the scale and I can’t get up and…actually, never mind, I like it here. Just leave me be.
Since when does having common sense and empathy for one’s fellow citizens put a person way out on the fringe, anyway???
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@OzarkHillbilly: I was a unionized engineer in a previous job. The union had negotiated some pretty good contracts over the years with management when times were flush.
But then came a time when relations were not so friendly and there was actually discussion of a strike. I think the issues revolved around overtime policies (there were a lot of loopholes that let management get overtime for free out of salaried employees like engineers). The union rep told me that management had turned to him at the meeting and basically sneered, “do you really think you have the votes for a strike?”
The strike was voted down. Management got their way.
satby
John Rogers:
Ceci n est pas mon nym
That’s a hell of a quiz. I scored all the way left because I couldn’t take the MAGA position on any of those issues. Since when did “not a rabid Trumpist” become the definition of far left? What’s a moderate? Somebody who thinks we should deport all Muslims and Mexicans, but is OK with US involvement in foreign affairs?
As for the chart above, I hate both authoritarians and libertarians, and I definitely am more left than right. So on the basis of the labels alone, I’d have to pick four cells in the the middle two rows, first two columns. And I don’t understand what Trotskyism is, so maybe that makes me a 17th-wave interdimensional feminist.
OzarkHillbilly
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
A thrice told tale.
Amir Khalid
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Hmm.
schrodingers_cat
@Kay: I think it depends on the D voter. For those people for whom the fear is real, like members of different minorities, the foreign born, vote D in overwhelming numbers. Its the privileged who want to feel good about their vote, vote either if they are inspired by the candidate, who gives them warm and fuzzies. For them voting seems to be like voting for an award show.
tobie
@Kay: Wait, I’m so confused now. Weren’t all of our slogans positive? Love trumps hate? Stronger together? What is true is that with Obama we fell in love. I’m not sure how often that will happen. It’s rare to have someone as magnetic as Obama or to some extent Bill Clinton as a candidate. What frightens me is that charisma seems to be the only thing that solidifies the left. I thought we were better than this. We’re not.
Major Major Major Major
What a weird political quiz, I got pretty much as far to the left as you go, but all it’s really measuring is whether I’m more liberal than the median American voter. I’m not actually that liberal.
tobie
@OzarkHillbilly: With a bad conduct discharge you are still legally able to buy weapons. With a dishonorable discharge you are not. So evidently Kelley could buy his assault rifle legally.
japa21
@tobie: You’ve hit the basic difference between R’s and D’s. Republican voters will vote Republican no matter who the candidate is simply because the Democratic opponent by definition is so much worse. There are a lot of voters on the left that demand perfection from their candidates and if they don’t get the sense of perfection then screw the candidate. To those voters the Dem candidate is just as bad as the Republican. Right Sarandon and Stein?
zhena gogolia
I was amazed to discover last night that Ross Poldark is a purity pony.
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly: thanks. Bad conduct discharge is not as bad as a dishonorable discharge — and easier to appeal upwards.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@germy:
Christ, Hollywood is just melting down these days.
raven
@Immanentize: ELIGIBILITY FOR BENEFITS CHART
THIS CHART SHOWS THE ELIGIBILITY FOR BENEFITS BASED ON THE TYPE OF DISCHARGE A MEMBER IS AWARDED. IT DOES NOT INDICATE ANY OTHER CRITERIA THAT MAY ALSO BE REQUIRED FOR AN INDIVIDUAL TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE BENEFITS INDICATED.69
Immanentize
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: It was always held together with gum and silvery thread. I suspect part of the timing has to do with people generally on the attack against all vulnerable institutions regardless whether they are good or bad.
tobie
@tobie: Oops…no sooner do I post than CNN has a news flash saying that TX Gov Abbott claims Kelley was denied a gun license. Am I the only one who’s skeptical about this as well as the claim about the ‘good buy with a gun’? This all strikes me as a concerted whitewashing effort from frightened gun fanatics. Trump has proven you can lie publicly with abandon so now all Republicans are following suit.
OzarkHillbilly
@tobie: You are explaining the different results of the 2 discharges, not the difference between them, which is what I would like to know. Also he was convicted of ” “assault on his spouse and child” and spent a year in a military prison” which I would think disqualifies one from owning a firearm, but in this NRA day and age it may be a requirement.
tobie
@OzarkHillbilly: Sorry…misunderstood your query.
Immanentize
@raven:
Thank you! I have started focussing more on benefits for vets who are criminally charged in my clinic work. There are some amazing people out there working hard on behalf of vets who get OTH (other than honorable) because they have mental health issues, often tied to service, or drug issues, often tied to service, or both sometimes tied to sexual assault while serving. I did know the difference between OTH and Gen were huge — as the chart shows. I am printing this out and tacking to my wall.
Amir Khalid
@tobie:
Remember what Will Rogers said about Democrats. You’re all various shades of not-all-the-way-right. So it can be hard to agree on an agenda. Failing that, you have to at least agree on a candidate. In 2008, Obama prevailed on personal appeal — he was and is a way cooler person than she — as well as tactical smarts. You wouldn’t want a candidate who had only a magnetic personality to offer; but it’s not a bad thing in itself, and it helps a lot.
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly: this is a great question — yes, domestic violence convictions in most states preclude the convicted from possessing any gun. You should see the hoops the system goes through to prevent abusive cops from getting convicted….
Meanwhile, as a defense attorney, I would certainly argue that a military court martial is not the same as a civilian conviction — different standards of proof, different procedural protections, etc. And I bet if they needed him in a fight, the military would happily have put a gun in his hands.
OzarkHillbilly
@tobie: Yeah, it’s a legal question, a military justice kind of question. Not likely to find an answer here.
Frankensteinbeck
@Kay:
The contradictions are baked into Assange’s personality. From what I’ve read, he’s a self-obsessed loon. As The Hero, he is exempt from all rules and anything he doesn’t want must be pure evil.
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
I wish harm on no one, but it’s hard to care about Rand Paul’s pain. Plus, the longer he’s out of the Senate, the harder it is for them to pass anything.
gvg
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
You know, that made me think, maybe it was a motorized wheelchair. turning the wheels of a mechanical old fashioned wheelchair takes arm strength that not everybody has, especially since a lot of us do non physical work. It’s better if you can, but a lot of people don’t. also Virginia and Kentucky both have a lot of hilly areas that make it more challenging. My sister was in a wheel chair for a year trying to heal up without surgery. In flat Florida she managed, but when we went to Georgia on vacation, there were a few times when I could barely push her up a hill and she had to keep her hand by the brake in case I started to lose control. At any rate those motorized wheel chairs are like small scooters and weigh a lot. Someone could really hurt someone with one.
Raven
As you can see it slides. When I got popped for some generators that got sold in the Ville they were going to give me an Article 15 and not inform my parents ( I was only 17). When there were some other black market busts in the division the CG sent down a message tha all black market case workgroup get a court martial so I got a special. That made it more serious and the chaplain wrote my old man.
rikyrah
GOP senator tells Wash Examiner that Trump is readying an executive order to unravel Obamacare’s individual mandate.https://t.co/nKIcyCpFfU
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) November 6, 2017
Immanentize
@Frankensteinbeck: on your second point — Paul is out for a bit, Cochran is out maybe forever (or they will bring him in just for a vote like they did Thurmond and Byrd), and McCain is iffy on health. Then there is Corker who is a solid NO on the tax plan so far. That means there are not more than 48 votes for the tax plan if all this holds.
rikyrah
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Uh huh
Uh huh
Immanentize
@rikyrah: Hard to see how that can be done with an executive order. Except to order the IRS not to prosecute people who have no insurance and don’t pay the tax?
OzarkHillbilly
@Immanentize:
I know it’s a lot different (I used to know an Air Force JAG) but it’s the year in prison that sticks out to me. They don’t give prison time out for minor violations of the UCMJ.
Steve in the ATL
@Elmo:
Late to the party but Elmo is spot on. Last two big strikes that pop into my head were CWA against Verizon (which ended after months with the union getting exactly what had been offered pre-strike) and the longshoremen striking in California ports (which largely shuts down commerce in the US). CWA almost struck against AT&T about three years ago (my bargaining with them was interrupted by their strike planning) but they came to an agreement just a few days before the ish hit the fan.
And I’ll never forget the time as a baby lawyer when I deposed a longshoreman and learned that he and his fellow senior longshoremen made more money than I did. I called my parents that night, furious, and demanded to know why they made me finish eighth grade when I could be making longshoreman bucks!
Immanentize
@Raven: I’ve gotta say, between that story and the picture of you in front of the White House, (and adding in all you add here) I am very sorry I didn’t know you then.
Immanentize
OK JACKELS! Especially those of a certain age — my high school friend’s son, Chris Bill, is an AMAZING trombone player who does fantastic mixing work. I offer you his version of Chicago’s
25 or 6 to 4
Hang in there until the ‘guitar’ solo.
SFAW
@bystander:
Only because of their W-L percentage.
tobie
@Amir Khalid:I agree magnetic appeal is a great bonus to policy expertise and tactical smarts…it’s just a rare quality, and I’m worried in particular about a younger generation that came of age during the Obama years and expects superhuman charm in candidates every single cycle. As usual, though, your insights are spot on.
Matt McIrvin
A thing I’ve come to realize about classifications that have an “authoritarian/libertarian” axis is that, as the terms are used in the US, they’re not actually opposites. Many US libertarians are OK with property and contract giving people essentially totalitarian power over others. They just don’t regard government as a legitimate source of that power, except inasmuch as it gives muscle to property rights.
rikyrah
Russian Twitter Support for Trump Began Right After He Started Campaign
In three months after Mr. Trump announced his candidacy, tweets from Russian accounts offered far more praise for the businessman than criticism
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-twitter-support-for-trump-began-right-after-he-started-campaign-1509964380
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: There have been psychological experiments on that. Being afraid, thinking about death and horror, makes people more ideologically right-wing: authoritarian, apprehensive about change, suspicious of the other, generally culturally conservative. The reason why the fear appeal works for them but not for us is probably very deeply rooted in the human brain.
zhena gogolia
@bystander:
Oh God, lol
OzarkHillbilly
@Immanentize: Nice.
The Moar You Know
@OzarkHillbilly: Reporter got it wrong. US law prohibits people convicted of domestic violence (the basis of his discharge) from owning weapons.
I’d really like to know how he got his guns and ammo. The gun he used is extremely expensive, he didn’t buy that out of some guy’s car trunk.
OzarkHillbilly
@Matt McIrvin:
But only their property rights, not their neighbors.
Matt McIrvin
@OzarkHillbilly: Yes, and freedom of contract mysteriously stops being a core principle when a labor union is involved.
cat
@OzarkHillbilly: Long Island school bus drivers are on strike right now. Pretty sure that city workers in Oakland were on strike last week, and there was some kind of teachers’ strike out Chicago way last month. The nurses at Tufts MC in Boston went on strike for a week over the summer. Well, technically the nurses went on strike for a day, and the hospital locked them out for an additional 4 because contract nurses are paid by the week.
OzarkHillbilly
@Matt McIrvin: Absolutely.
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@OzarkHillbilly: This is what Wikipedia has on the Big Chicken Dinner and the Duck Dinner.
The impression that I get is that it’s something the court-martial decides; I don’t know, not being any kind of an actual lawyer or otherwise versed in the UCMJ, if they have sentencing guidelines to work with, although I wouldn’t be shocked if they did.
raven
@Immanentize Just one of the fellas!
Kathleen
@rikyrah: I’m old enough to remember an NPR reporter kept asking him over and over if his decision was “political”because that’s what a Republican said. Her tone was accusatory. She was disgusting.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
Outside of it.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
I’m fairly certain his motive to shoot at a crowd of people was to kill them.
TenguPhule
@debbie:
John Doe in a dark alley.