INdicted, that is:
Federal investigators have gathered enough evidence to bring charges in their investigation of President Donald Trump’s former national security adviser and his son as part of the probe into Russia’s intervention in the 2016 election, according to multiple sources familiar with the investigation.
Michael T. Flynn, who was fired after just 24 days on the job, was one of the first Trump associates to come under scrutiny in the federal probe now led by Special Counsel Robert Mueller into possible collusion between Moscow and the Trump campaign.
Mueller is applying renewed pressure on Flynn following his indictment of Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, three sources familiar with the investigation told NBC News.
If Flynn is indicted, I am going to demand that the video of his perp walk include a rendition of the “lock her up” chorus.
Trentrunner
I have the oddest, very specific wish for all possible indictments/convictions:
I want Ivanka indicted, convicted, and imprisoned, just so we can see her actual mousey brown hair color line growing out of her very expensive blonde dye job.
I know this is sexist af, and I’m seeking help. But, God, I want it.
J.
#LockHimUp
Hunter Gathers
This would be a good time to do it, considering President Fat Fuck is overseas insulting an entire continent all at once.
Why can’t an island full of samurai shoot down a misslle, anyway?
Corner Stone
“Flynn?…Mark Flynn? No, can’t say he ever had much to do with the campaign. Someone told me he may have run copies for meetings but I’m not sure. You’ll have to ask them.”
MattF
@Hunter Gathers: The Japanese are a little leery of starting a nuclear war. Tsk.
Mike in NC
Turns out I lived in Middletown, RI for three years. That’s Flynn’s hometown and I was disgusted to read that people are dropping off cash and checks at his brother’s house to help pay the legal expenses of this traitor and criminal.
Hunter Gathers
@MattF: I’m slightly disappointed that Trump didn’t blame it on Japan’s reluctance to send Mecha Godzilla after the misslle.
Corner Stone
@Trentrunner: I want the whole Trump family indicted, convicted, stripped of all assets and jailed. Then when Ivanka’s kids go into the system someone can explain to them they might have been adopted but since their Paw Paw eliminated the adoption deduction no one can afford to anymore. Now be a good child and strap on your telephone books to your chest, duck tape your shiv into your hand and be prepared to battle for your evening gruel.
Major Major Major Major
@Trentrunner: is that sexist? I want the same for papa trump for the same reason. ETA among other reasons.
debbie
Just heard on the news that a number of Republican Congressmen have declared Mueller to be unfit for office. Wish they’d named names because I’m in a faxing kind of mood.
Kay
Good. I cannot wait until this reaches Sessions, which in my admittedly amateur opinion is inevitable. Sessions shouldn’t be in that job. He’s unfit.
JMG
They’ve had Flynn dead to rights since day one for his Turkish connections. Since Mueller doesn’t leak, I think this is a public plea from Flynn’s lawyer to his client to totally rat on the campaign lest his son wind up in the pokey as well.
oatler.
@debbie: It won’t surprise me if Mueller is “removed”. This is their movie and we’re in it.
Major Major Major Major
@debbie: Mueller can’t be unfit for office on account of not holding office?
PaulWartenberg
@debbie:
there were three congresscritters who filed a bill to remove Mueller from the investigation (and to shut it down), arguing that he failed to pursue the uranium charges against Hillary. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-congress/republicans-seek-special-counsels-removal-from-russia-probe-idUSKBN1D31W8 you need to call Gohmert, Biggs, and Gaetz’ offices on Monday.
Corner Stone
@JMG: I wonder. Because NBC keeps saying “multiple sources”. It’s most likely not Mueller’s team. So who is it talking about this?
Steeplejack
@Corner Stone:
“Well, you’ve got a great memory—the best!—so I guess you’d know. End of story.”
Major Major Major Major
@oatler.: Mueller (more likely somebody on his team) has gotta have a dead man’s switch for the investigation in case it gets shut down.
Baud
@Corner Stone: Maybe the same people who leaked the grand jury indictment on the Friday before the Monday it was made public.
MP
In the case of Flynn, I would guess backup is UCMJ. Don’t know if Trump could interfere with that.
Corner Stone
@Baud: IMO, that was someone involved in the Grand Jury process. I could be wrong, or wanting to believe Mueller would not jeopardize his entire effort by leaking something with such little value to him.
But I mean, we in reality all know Mueller has had enough on Flynn from Day One. So what is this really “news” of?
bystander
The part I like is how Mueller has pitted longtime business partners against each other and, most deliciously, father and son in conflicting (self) interest. Thank you! The wounds will be deep and lasting. Couldn’t happen to a better bunch.
Kay
@Baud:
Interesting how no one leaks this to the NYTimes. Their sources seem to consist of 1. Donald Trump 2. people who work for Donald Trump. They may wanna broaden the ‘ol pool over there. It seems unlikely that Donald Trump is going to give them real information on Donald Trump. Looks like they allied with the wrong folks.
debbie
@PaulWartenberg:
Thank you for their names.
Baud
@Corner Stone: I don’t think this was Mueller.
@Kay: Because everyone knows the NYT is garbage.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Hunter Gathers:
Too bad Abe’s too use honorable to jump super high and use his katana to slice open Air Force One mid-flight.
Trentrunner
@Major Major Major Major: It’s close enough to policing women’s appearances, so, yeah, sexist. But trivially so, IMHO.
Kay
@PaulWartenberg:
This is base-posturing though. Trump’s a coward and a blowhard. He isn’t going to shut anything down. The spit-flecked base needs an explanation for why Trump didn’t prosecute Clinton for the fake crimes. He ran on prosecuting Clinton. He can’t because it was all bullshit.
Trump’s lawyers scramble to say the administration is cooperating with Mueller because they are (rightfully) afraid of Mueller.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
I think more and more that the NYT is somehow compromised by Russia.
But my husband just keeps saying, “they want their tax cuts.”
hueyplong
Are we talking about Michael “Coffee Boy” Flynn?
Kay
@Baud:
They’re literally the last to know. Well, their readers are the last. But they have “access”!
JMG
@Corner Stone: Courthouse sources, if a sealed indictment has been filed. Also, it’s likely Flynn has more than one lawyer from a firm working on his case. He’s in trouble plenty.
bystander
@Corner Stone:
That the indictments are imminent, I hope. And that Mueller’s team is setting up multiple fronts of the investigation. Trump’s meager, second tier bunch of attorneys will never have the ability to cover all the fronts. Adding more attorneys to a crippled, weak structure will only expand the possibility of screwing up.
zhena gogolia
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Did he really say something about samurai?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@zhena gogolia:
Why not both?
Gin & Tonic
@Mike in NC: I should drive by and drop off something aromatic.
Baud
@zhena gogolia: Maybe, but they’ve been horrible for quite a while now.
zhena gogolia
I love you, Bobby Three Sticks.
Jeffro
@Major Major Major Major: two, actually…the first is that NY AG (Schneiderman, I think?). The second would have to be some sort of full-blown, last stand press conference and/or full document dump
Kay
@zhena gogolia:
There’s this really interesting side thing going on where journalists are all joining unions. It was always there- the owners of the Toledo Blade run anti-union op eds WHILE they are fighting with their own employees over a contract but more and more of them are unionizing WHILE the editorial pages become more and more skewed to the 1%. It’s fascinating.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Well, I mean a while back — the article right before the election about how there was nothing improper between Trump and Russia, when there was no way they could possibly have known.
Baud
@Kay:
“Access” And a good crossword puzzle.
debbie
@hueyplong:
Next thing you know, they’ll be claiming it was Pence who got the coffee.
CaseyL
Mueller’s running such a tight ship, I not only wonder who leaked this and why, I also wonder what other shoe is gonna drop that hasn’t leaked, a la Papadopolous.
Jeffro
@Corner Stone: news of Flynn’s indictment dropping tomorrow, is my guess.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Please don’t hate me for my crossword addiction. It’s the only thing keeping me sane in the Trump era.
And p.s. to my earlier message, when I wrote Dean Baquet to complain about their coverage and ask what their ties to Russia were, I got these really snarky messages that seemed to have been written by a teenager.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@zhena gogolia:
From Japan Times:
He’s too fucking stupid to realise the JSSDF is prohibited from offensive military action because of the Constitution we forced on them post-WW2. Yes, he really fucking did.
Baud
@zhena gogolia: Have they ever tried to explain that?
zhena gogolia
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Excuse me while I barf.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
No, they always look forward, never back. Never apologized for the aluminum tubes, either.
Major Major Major Major
@Jeffro: NY is a publicly known insurance policy/defense against pardons. I was thinking of the latter.
Baud
@zhena gogolia: Bush I did that to Japan.
This is worse.
Corner Stone
@hueyplong: No, no. This is Mark Flynn. He brought copies into the National Security Meetings for the rest of the admin to review. Then he’d leave and the meetings would begin. Think he was an unpaid volunteer for a few months.
Mike Flynn is just some supporter on Twitter, but I’m not sure. I may have retweeted some positive things he said about me.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Jesus, I can’t wait for all these asswipes to get indicted. I hope they do it tomorrow. This shit has gone on long enough, and we need to get these creeps out of fucking office while we still have a country. I only wonder what’s going to happen when they get to Manbaby himself. There’s still no consensus about whether the president can be indicted, and if he isn’t, no amount of proof of any crimes at all will be enough to get Republicans to impeach the fucker.
Kay
If political media want to be fair they should run non-stop footage of the “lock her up” rallies on Indictment Days.
What goddammned nerve these crooks had casting stones at Clinton – they’re corrupt as hell.
THEY RAN on locking people up and they are now being indicted and we’re not even a year into this. It took Mueller 5 months to find this- that is FAST.
NotMax
More accurately, he resigned (ahead of being sacked).
Betty Cracker
So glad the vicious crackpot son is also implicated. Hope they both go to jail.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Not unless they feel threatened with being beaten next year.
Just One More Canuck
@Hunter Gathers: it didn’t have to be samurais:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBizgLZX7W0
Baud
@Kay: Have the rerun Hillary calling Trump Putin’s Puppet? No, because the media was in on the scam.
Corner Stone
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): “I am the only one that matters.”
Jeffro
@Major Major Major Major: me too – hope it doesn’t come down to that, but if Rs won’t do their duty, at least everything will come out and the public can make them pay. To say nothing of history’s judgment
Kay
All credit to Mueller and his team but at some point we have to have a discussion on why all this didn’t come out during our endless, multi-billion dollar political campaigns because 5 months is fast- this stuff was there for the taking. Why is Mueller the only person who picked it up? I don’t recall a President who had corruption exposed this fast. It was THERE.
Charlie Don't Surf
There is a call for Mr. Flynn.
Corner Stone
@Baud: Aw, yeah! Two minutes of glory baby!
*No pee tape involved
mai naem mobile
@J.: does it make me sexist to want Dolt45 arrested so that I can see him without his hairpiece thingamagig.
dogwood
@Kay:
It took Mueller 5 months to start pulling things together and and imposing a structure on the investigative work that the FBI and other agencies had been engaged in long before he showed up.
Kay
@Baud:
20 AP reporters assigned to the stolen emails. TWENTY. My God, I don’t think Mueller has 20 lawyers. They didn’t do any vetting of Trump because they were literally too busy reporting on Podesta’s rice recipes. The obvious explanation is the true one. They didn’t do “both” because that isn’t how priorities work.
They deserve to have their emails stolen. I’d like to look at them myself- see how this massive systemic failure occurred.
Cheryl Rofer
Who are the sources? Let’s look at what NBC says:
That last is something that lawyers representing the witnesses and the witnesses themselves know. Much of the rest is surmise from the identities of those witnesses and the information already available.
So I’ll guess that the witnesses or their lawyers are the leakers. Mueller and his team have been too good at keeping quiet to break now. And I don’t see any obvious benefit for them in leaking this.
sharl
The abrupt shutdown of Gothamist LLC by its asshole billionaire owner, despite all evidence of it being profitable – not hugely so, but certainly NOT losing money – has been a real wake-up to a lot of younger journalists. The editorial staff of the former Gawker collective unionized prior to it being bought by a subsidiary of Univision Communications, and those employees apparently did far better during the transition than they would have in the absence of unionization.
All of the anti-union, business libertarian types who are weighing in on this – y’know, the-wisdom-of-the-free-marketplace-should-rule crowd – are ignoring a whole lot of evidence and history in their online commentary on this topic. Truthiness rules, or something, I guess.
rumpole
Don’t know what a “source close to the investigation” is. I’m hoping that it’s Flynn’s lawyers letting the white house know that he may need a get out of jail free card. ‘Cause otherwise, the presence of leaks from the prosecutorial team is bad, bad, bad. (See starr, kenneth).
Patricia Kayden
@Trentrunner: Donny Jr and the other awful son will be enough for me. Please let it be so.
NotMax
@Mai nem mobile
Not sexist all.
May be a sign of someone whose aesthetic sense tilts toward the grotesque, however.
;)
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@Hunter Gathers:
All of the ninjas stymied them.
Kay
@dogwood:
Good point. Did you see this is spreading to the UK? Dollars to donuts that “leave” campaign was a Russian gov effort.
Sometimes when I’m feeling good about this I laugh at it because it’s just so fucking perfect that the “populist” campaign was directed from on-high by Putin, who is a kleptocrat who robs his own people and they are desperately poor and all but powerless. 150 oligarchs ran a populist campaign. You couldn’t sell that as a script and it really happened.
dogwood
@Kay:
“Dollars to donuts”
I haven’t heard that phrase since my father died in 1988. I love you, Kay.
Kay
@sharl:
I’m thrilled they’re joining unions, especially if they’re young. About time they caught a fucking clue. “Disruption” is fabulous but these people need health insurance and retirement savings because they aren’t gonna be 25 forever. They aren’t the people who benefit from anti-worker policies. They will never be those people. They need to figure that out.
CaseyL
@Kay:
Assuming there’s anything left of our country and civilization in 20 or so years, I expect a few films will be made about this era. The “oligarch-populist” machine would be good for a dark, very dark, comedy.
Corner Stone
@Patricia Kayden: No way! Ivanka needs to burn. That is the only way to complete the humiliation of Trump.
mike in dc
If you want a guess as to the sequence of indictments of “big fish”:
1. Manafort(done)
2. Flynn(pending)
3. Kushner(likely in my opinion)
4. Sessions(possible)
5. Don Jr.(only possible if Mueller has solid evidence of a real conspiracy)
6. 45
Wild cards: Pence, Wilbur Ross(Cyprus bank stuff), Various Russians(listing Putin as unindicted co-conspirator would be a hoot), Ivanka, Eric, and Lara Trump, and potentially a few members of Congress.
I’d put the over/under on total number indicted at 100. Take the over.
dogwood
@Kay:
I think Mueller is doing a great job. I also think there were plenty of investigators doing great work before Mueller arrived, but none of those agencies had the power to impanel a grand jury or hand down indictments.
NotMax
@Kay
Pounds to pasties?
;)
Something else unfolding across the pond:
Betty Cracker
@mai naem mobile: I don’t think it’s a hairpiece; I think it’s a multi-dimensional combover.
Kay
@dogwood:
You were a teacher so you probably know this but it’s so funny with kids. My son and his friends stare at me with their blank, newborn baby faces “did you make that up?” One of them had pants on made with corded cotton and they were all fascinated, literally stroking his knee. I was like “it’s called corduroy” They’re from the future and unfamiliar with our folk ways.
Barry
@Major Major Major Major: “Mueller (more likely somebody on his team) has gotta have a dead man’s switch for the investigation in case it gets shut down.”
That’s what his work with the NY AG is – I’ll bet a lot of money that he’s ‘loaned’ that office critical evidence.
With Sessions, it might be that Mueller has ‘let it be known…’ about some other evidence.
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
I miss the crosswords so much. Doing them online just isn’t the same thing.
Yarrow
@Kay:
If you are not reading Carole Cadwalladr’s excellent articles in The Guardian about the Russian involvement in Brexit, you should. This article was from May:
Here’s her page. https://www.theguardian.com/profile/carolecadwalladr. Two articles on Russia/Brexit on Friday, another one last week about Farage, Assange, Trump, Bannon.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@zhena gogolia: I read about that samurai comment but my brain refused to process it as real so I moved on. That’s my mode of coping with the surreal circus that is Donald Trump.
Davebo
Meanwhile Donna Brazile is doubling down and Clinton is biting back. What a clusterfuck.
MomSense
@zhena gogolia:
I’ve been saying since the summer that I think the Russians found some juicy stuff in the NYT emails/servers. I hope it all comes out before this is through.
Aleta
I wouldn’t call it ‘help’ unless an actual record is made/preserved of the meeting and reporters are not shut out.
MomSense
@Davebo:
And no one is talking about what a reprehensible, racist monster Ed Gillespie is. I’m furious.
debbie
@Kay:
Kay, did you hear Grassley’s condemnation of all the allegations of sexual harassment? He said we shouldn’t be relying on innuendo and unsubstantiated claims*. I so wanted a reporter to come back at him pointing out that everything he alleged against Clinton was innuendo and unsubstantiated. But no.
* I think Grassley’s protestations are proof he’s done his own share of harassment.
Major Major Major Major
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): always fun to see the brain’s “adopt, adapt, or abandon” mechanism for new information in action.
FlipYrWhig
@Betty Cracker: I think it’s a weave plus combover. It always looks like there are two layers in the back, as though the whole contraption is folded up at the base of the neck, and then _again_ pompadour-style over the forehead.
mike in dc
2nd shoe today: Wilbur Ross still invested in a company with lots of ties to Putin. Apparently a big document dump from a firm called Applebys in Bermuda, similar to the Panama Papers.
Elizabelle
@MomSense: I think so too. I think the FTF NYTimes is complicit, and the sooner we find that out, the better.
They have a lot of actually good reporters — away from their politics desk, which sucks balls (maybe literally) — and the sooner the bad ones are swept out, the better. Something is seriously wrong with Dean Baquet (executive editor) and Pinch Sulzberger (publisher).
Kay
Prison, you coddled baby. Not “jail”. A competent criminal would never make that category mistake.
Baud
@Davebo: What did Clinton say?
@MomSense: In fairness, there was no chance the media was going to talk about what a monster Gillespie is.
Elizabelle
Breaking news alert, FTF NY Times:
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Now it looks like Wilbur Ross has a big stake in a business intimately connected with a Russian business controlled by Putin’s son in law. #somuchwinning
Baud
@mike in dc: I assume it wasn’t leaked by WikiLeaks.
FlipYrWhig
@MomSense: Ed Gillespie is a truly horrible person. Like if you took only the worst parts of all other recent Republican candidates in Virginia–who have all been very bad–and added them up. I suppose that his one saving grace is that he isn’t running as a Christianist nutbag like many of the rest have. But he’s disgusting and Northam is just such a well-meaning person (despite whatever lapses he’s had–and there are no shortage of lapses to lament in the careers and public statements of every politician from Wellstone on down).
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@sharl: To quote Woody Guthrie re unions, “Take it easy, but take it.”
tobie
@mike in dc: As with the Panama Papers, the leak from Bermuda came via Germany. Let this be one more nail in the coffin of Trumpism.
I made calls for Northam this morning, and everyone I reached said they had been contacted multiple times by the campaign, so the ground game seems to be good. Fingers crossed.
@Davebo: I haven’t seen Clinton respond to Brazile. 90 of her campaign staffers wrote a gracious message saying they remembered things differently than DB and that we should be focused on VA and NJ. Did I miss anything?
glory b
@mike in dc: Re: Ross, breaking news on msnbc right now. A 7 million page document dump from an off shore law firm indicates Ross claimed he divested from the Russian company but did not.
I see that someone else ot there first. one of the interviewees said, “Isn’t there a point where you say, ‘Okay, I have enough money?'”
Kay
@debbie:
Right. I don’t mean to be a cynic but the idea that Republicans have all en masse woken up to sexism in the workplace and it’s now an issue of vital concern to them OR their voters seems a stretch. My they certainly changed a lot since they enthusiastically backed the life-long harraser! Someone cares about this or all these people wouldn’t be getting fired but I doubt it’s completely trickled down to the rank and file “public”. They thought it was FINE that Ledbetter got paid like half a million dollars less over her career than men with her same job. They’ve certainly progressed very rapidly, I must say!
FlipYrWhig
@Kay: It’s hard to believe that we’ve gotten to a point where public figures in the news behave identically to trolls and randos on the Internet.
NotMax
@Elizabelle
Ross is currently overseas with the Dolt 45 dog and pony show*. Let’s see how quickly he scurries back to D.C.
*Apologies to any actual dogs and ponies.
mike in dc
@tobie:
If I were Clinton I would wait until after Tuesday’s elections to go on a show or two and rebut the allegations point by point. She could probably say something constructive about the recrimination/moving-forward thing if she wants to as well.
Betty Cracker
@FlipYrWhig: Could be. There seems to be a thatch-like layer below the separate strips that form the top layer.
tobie
@mike in dc: I’m sure she will. Unbelievable how many times this good woman has had to take one for the team.
FlipYrWhig
@tobie: AFAICT this foofaraw about Northam, Democracy for America and sanctuary cities has made _zero_ penetration into the consciousness of the general public in Virginia. _I’ve_ barely seen it and I spend hours every day cruising the web _seeking out_ stories about politics.
Kay
@Elizabelle:
God you could see he was corrupt from space. Did you see Trump’s daughter in law is now also running policy? Unfuckingbelievable. As predicted, they normalized this and now the whole sleazy family are embedded. They’re a ruling family and no one cares or does anything. The rot is spreading.
Betty Cracker
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Wasn’t he on the board of the very hinky Bank of Cyprus until he joined Trump’s cabinet?
FlipYrWhig
@Betty Cracker: Great description. A bit like doll hair next to the scalp, then wrapped with long strands.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Betty Cracker: Didn’t he get hair plugs? I seem to recall one of his exes saying he attacked her because the operation was somehow screwed up?
dogwood
@Kay:
Yep. And then you go on to mention “pasties”, my father’s favorite food. He wasn’t much interested in food; he ate to survive. So watching his eyes light up
and the sheer delight he took in savoring every bite of that meal is one of my fondest childhood memories of him. I was teaching a class when I was called out to receive the message that he had passed. I went back in the classroom, told my students what had happened and then spontaneously said that in my entire life my father had never raised his voice to me or uttered and unkind word to me. I’m not sure that many of the teenagers in that room bought it, but it was the truth.
Corner Stone
@glory b: Good…Good
/bug rubbing antennae together
Zach
@Corner Stone:
My money’s on Flynn and Flynn Jr. leaking to try to spook Trump into a pardon.
My guess on the case: it’s all about the hacked e-mails. George Papadopolous knew about them in April 2016. They weren’t released for months. Who did he tell? Who did they tell? It’s more than a little unlikely that he kept it to himself. I bet that anyone who was in the loop on the emails can be brought in as part of an espionage conspiracy along with the Russians directly responsible for the hack who are reportedly going to be indicted soon.
Mueller left a lot out of the Papadopolous plea, but he specifically included all of the references to the emails and then just dropped it at that point (as opposed to the thread about setting up a Russian meeting which yada yada’d a couple months but was fairly complete). My guess: Papadopolous plead to the various meeting bits without admitting guilt on the more serious espionage charges that’ll be brought against people further up the chain.
Kay
@FlipYrWhig:
It’s hard to believe we’re not only stuck with these horrible corrupt, low talent people but also their grown children.
Why don’t these children actually grow up and start their own lives and careers? They’re trailing behind their parents like ducks. There are more and more of them every year. Go BE something- these people had every advantage. They all choose to stay with their parents? None of them want to be an engineer or a physician or an actor or a writer or start a business? They want to be also-ran hangers on to their infamous parents? It’s sick and unhealthy.
GregB
So the links to the Brexit campaign and the Russian ratfuckers are coming out in the UK.
Nigel Farage is playing large in both the UK and US elections.
I hope Mueller makes the direct line to all of these cretins pronto.
Boris Johnson looks like he may take a torpedo on this too.
Now Wilbur Ross is getting his time in the barrel.
This is going down like the scene in Goodfellas when all the Lufthansa heist conspirators getting knocked off.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Kay:
Don’t worry they’re all going down.
dogwood
@tobie:
I hope to god she won’t. Why would any democrat want to keep this story going for another week. She isn’t going to change any minds.
Chris
@zhena gogolia:
Nah, the only thing the NYT is compromised by is the script. The script written decades ago that says Democrats are always traitors, Republicans are always patriots, everything is always the Democrats’ fault, and no crisis involving Republicans can ever exist without an equivalent Democratic crisis. The whole country’s been primed with that script for so long that even God knows how many Democrats have internalized it too. The Russians just needed to use it.
FlipYrWhig
@Kay: Astutely observed. It feels pre-modern, like a royal entourage.
FlipYrWhig
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): “Scalp reduction surgery.” The idea was to cut out a section of bald scalp and pull the rest together. Seems like an awful idea.
Just One More Canuck
@Kay: in the case of the Trumplings, it’s probably because they are sufficiently self-aware to know that they have no real marketable skills and no desire to gain any, and so the only option they saw was to grift along in the wake of their father.
Patricia Kayden
@Kay:
Many on the Right are still going after the Clintons. She will always be their bogeywoman. Kellyanne Conwoman claimed that Republicans keep yapping about Secretary Clinton because she just won’t go away. I didn’t know that once you lost an election, you had to permanently shut yourself down from the public. No one ever told that to Palin, I guess.
GregB
Guardian reporing a Jared Kushner associate as a money conduit between Facebook and Russia.
Ruckus
@Kay:
Do recall that this was started before Mueller was put in place. As Adam has stated the investigation started over a year before Mueller. It’s been going on for 18 months and in the now world of electronic data the time to tie up lose ends should take less.
mike in dc
@GregB:
This is the core problem for Trump–with a criminal investigation, 3 congressional investigations and public interest driving great investigative journalism, this story is never going away. Not until he does, anyway.
tobie
@dogwood: Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I meant I’m sure she will wait past Tuesday and possibly till hell freezes over before responding to DB’s accusation. She’s not the loose canon you need to worry about.
Fair Economist
@Kay:
It’s always projection with the Republicans. They project more than an IMAX 3D theatre.
Chris
@Kay:
Republicans have “woken up” to sexism in the workplace because for once, the controversy’s sprung up around an institution they view as “liberal” – Hollywood (as opposed to Newscorp, the Catholic Church, the U.S. military, or whatever). Not to worry. They’ll be back to their usual lovely selves soon enough.
Corner Stone
@Kay: Why would they want to work for anything in life? Look at how many trips they take and go hunting and did stuff on the campaign trail for 18 freakin’ months. They don’t actually *do* anything in real life but still get to live in penthouses and spend their free time doing anything they choose.
Yarrow
@GregB: I cannot WAIT for the Brexit/Russia stuff to really percolate up in the UK. I don’t know if they can re-do the referendum, but it was really compromised. Farage is such a traitor he should end up in prison.
James E. Powell
@dogwood:
Agree completely. Also too, in the American political hierarchy, Clinton is many levels above Brazile. She should not lower herself.
Vhh
@Major Major Major Major: Back in Watergate days, Archibald Cox and his team saw the Sat Night Massacre coming and spent the night before Xeroxing. I am sure that Bobby Three Sticks have backups in a safe place.
sharl
@Kay: LOL, the funny young dumb-ass dudes I follow on twitter love that guy, in their usual ironic way. They recognize him as one of their own; more specifically, as one of them when they are at their worst: Flynn Jr. is Failson Prime.
FlipYrWhig
@Chris: I’m not sure about “patriotism” per se but my sense is that the story Big Media likes to tell, and has been all in on since about 1980, is that starting in 1968 the Democrats lost touch with everyday people as defined by white Southerners and factory workers in the Midwest. So the story about the Clintons (e.g.) becomes “why are they out of touch with everyday people?” and the story about Trump and Bush II (e.g.) is “why are they so in touch with everyday people?” And then add to that that they have some truly weird senses about personality, such that they think politicians who work too hard and measure their words are terrible to listen to and be around, while politicians who wing it or look or speak imperfectly are admirably authentic. Hence they hate Carter, H.W. Bush, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry, and Hillary Clinton, and love McCain, Bradley, W. Bush, Sanders, and Trump. (Reagan and Obama are different cases, I suppose–maybe they’re just larger than life. Bill Clinton and Nixon had actual scandals so maybe they don’t count. I don’t have a take on Ford.)
Patricia Kayden
@Corner Stone: Ivanka going down would be fine with me.
Perhaps Ivanka will stay in Japan where she is adored.
James E. Powell
@Chris:
The NYT editors aren’t compromised by the script, they wrote the script. Republicans follow it because they know that the NYT will front page any anti-Clinton stuff no matter how specious or poorly sourced. It worked all through the 90s, it worked in 2016.
Elizabelle
@Patricia Kayden: Speaking about “it’s all about Clinton” — take it away Kathleen Parker: fresh up today:
Since Jennifer Rubin has gone all rational, someone has to bring the crazy. About to read this screed now. Will excerpt any good parts.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Just One More Canuck: They couldn’t develop skills that would bring them the kind of money they thought they needed and deserved. So they stayed where the money was.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@Major Major Major Major: @Trentrunner:
Eh, it’s maybe a little sexist, but here’s the anti-sexist reason I sooooooo want that, too: Ivanka has all the money, time, and domestic help in the world to promote the notion that women should be effortlessly pretty, sexy, blonde, big-booby, maternal, and accomplished (not that she actually is). Her shallowness and focus on appearances above all other human qualities women possess promotes the same sexism and unrealistic expectations in others.
Shorter: fuck her and the horse’s ass she rode in on.
Yarrow
@Corner Stone:
She will. The Azerbaijan hotel is going to be a big problem for her.
Ruckus
@glory b:
You’d think so. But you’d be wrong. We used to say this is a game to them, but it isn’t. The super wealthy, for the most part are addicts. Money addicts. It’s not different an addiction than any other. It’s all consuming and it hurts others as it plays out. But unlike other substance addictions it is far more wide reaching in it’s damage and scope. If you are a drunk, it hurts you, your family and possibly a few others. A money addiction hurts millions, it hurts the present, it hurts the future.
Zach
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/leaked-documents-show-commerce-secretary-concealed-ties-putin-cronies-n817711?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma
I’m puzzled why the only kinda qualified people Trump could find to fill his cabinet and work for his campaign for free have undisclosed financial ties to Russia.
Fair Economist
@Yarrow:
Holy moly. Papadopoulos’ handler Mifsud had meetings with two Tory ministers in Foreign Affairs, one of them Boris Johnson! Plus, another minister met Papadopoulos. Why was a British minister meeting with a “coffee boy?” It seems there was penetration into the British government.
Mike J
It’s rare that I wish I lived back in DC again, but I’d go wait by the FBI building tomorrow morning if I did.
dogwood
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
Breaking the cycle of any familial dysfunction is difficult in all families despite race, creed or socioeconomic status. The Tump kids do what know and behave in accordance to what they have always seen.
Zach
@GregB: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/05/russia-funded-facebook-twitter-investments-kushner-associate
LOL
Tenar Arha
@debbie: Agreed. I’ve practically begun saying “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” about them all. Seriously, if there’s regular jokes about any institution at all, I’ve reached where assuming there’s something under all of that “only joking.”
So, Grassley, or anyone in politics saying “this is innuendo,” well that isn’t hypocrisy, because of how they acted at the Access Hollywood tape last year, or all the way back with Bill Clinton. It’s a tell of “methinks he doth protest too much.”
Yarrow
@Elizabelle: Yes, because no public figure in politics, entertainment, media, sports or any other field ever did anything remotely questionable regarding their treatment of women prior to Bill Clinton. Womanizing started in the 1990’s.
What in the world is she smoking?
Calouste
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Also, why the fuck would you shoot down a missile over your country, risking death from falling debris, while it is aimed hundreds of miles away in the ocean?
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@Yarrow:
I’ve been reading those. They’re terrifying, and among many other things make me worry that she will be the next journalist assassinated.
FlipYrWhig
@Yarrow: Even if she wants to tell an attenuated history of the phenomenon and how it has shaped recent American culture, the usual Ground Zero for that story is CLARENCE FUCKING THOMAS.
Yarrow
@Fair Economist: As Adam says, penetration at all levels. Like I said, I think the Brexit referendum may need to be looked at again.
I really think someone should FP Carole Cadwalladr’s articles here so more people might see them.
JPL
SUTHERLAND SPRINGS, Texas – A man who opened fire in a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, is dead, police say.
A witness reported seeing a man walk into First Baptist Church and began shooting around 11:30 a.m.
Police said there are “multiple victims” at the church, but have not said how many.
https://www.ksat.com/news/shooting-sutherland-springs-church-gunfire-mass-shooting-airlife
Yarrow
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: It has to be a concern for her.
Part of me thinks this Russia story may turn into a larger investigation into the oligarchy. It’ll start with Russian oligarchs, but Mercer is involved and most likely is being investigated. Look at his odd recent actions. A lot of stones are being overturned.
J R in WV
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
But shooting missiles down that will pas over their national area is not offensive military action, it is clearly defensive. Not necessary, true, but defensive should they attempt it.
But if they attempt to shoot down DPRK missiles and fail, that’s a pretty big signifier, and all negative downside.
wuzzat
I’m on massive amounts of cold medicine right now, but I swear my first thought here was “Flynn is Trump’s son?” and it’s almost not implausible.
Shana
@mai naem mobile: No it doesn’t. Can’t remember the name right now, but there was some pol known for his big head of hair that had to take off his wig for prison. Also the Illinois governor who had to let his beautifully dyed black hair go grey in prison. Two different guys I’m pretty sure.
Ruckus
@Kay:
See my response to glory b @147.
I see this money thing as an addiction. And one that can be passed on to the next generation like a lot of other addictions, especially if they are raised like over privileged snotty brats. It’s all they know, that money is not the root of evil or a necessary part but is the be all, end all of life.
Elizabelle
@Yarrow: I decided not to excerpt any of Parker’s screed, because it is derp, through and through.
JPL
@JPL:
https://twitter.com/JesseRodriguez
Yarrow
@Elizabelle: Good plan. That crap doesn’t need any attention.
dmsilev
@Shana: The latter is Rod Blagojevich, sent to prison for essentially trying to auction off Barack Obama’s old Senate seat. The former is someone else, can’t remember who off-hand.
zhena gogolia
@Kay:
What does SJW mean? Straight Jewish Women?
Shana
@tobie: I just got back from canvassing for Northam et.al. Knocked nine houses that had no one home yesterday (I was working from the same packet the Saturday person had used). Three houses were home, all voting Dem. I thought that more folks would be home, it’s rainy her in NoVA and the football team doesn’t play until 4. Oh well.
GregB
@zhena gogolia:
Social Justice Warrior.
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
It’s amazing that no man was a womanizer before Bill Clinton. Not one in the whole of the universe. I’m totally amazed that this one man was able to start all the problems that women have with men, especially from having consensual sex. Maybe that explains why my mom liked shaking his hand one time in a crowd.
Bunter
@zhena gogolia: “Social Justice Warrior” it’s used as an insult by the right like “snowflake”.
HeleninEire
@Kay: I love you for saying that. Whatta asshole.
dogwood
@dmsilev:
Probably James Trafficant of Ohio.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@zhena gogolia:
Hey! That’s me! Mikey Flynn tweeted about me! And by a crazy coincidence, I’m a social justice warrior, too!
I do find the SJW acronym handy, as its non-ironic use identifies assholes instantly and efficiently and with the bonus of using fewer characters than “men’s rights.”
Shana
@dmsilev: Yes, Rod Blagojevich.
@dogwood: Yes, James Trafficant.
Thank you both.
Elizabelle
@Ruckus: Pulitzer Kathleen did not bring up that Bob Livingston and Newt Gingrich had to step down over adultery, although Bill Clinton never did. And she called Hillary’s recent book outings a “revenge tour.”
Something has rattled Kathleen. Maybe she’s furious, because she thinks that nice Ed Gillespie is on the ropes? Who knows?
chris
@Elizabelle: Peter Hitchens tries even harder.
No, I am not going to look at the column.
Elizabelle
@Shana: Yea for you! Good work!
Proud of all the Juicers, keeping Virginia blue.
Here’s the Richmond Times Dispatch’s article on Ralph Northam. Naturally, the Disgrace endorsed the straight GOP ticket. That said, this was a good article.
With quiet sturdiness and a doctor’s touch, Democrat Ralph Northam tries to hold off upset in Virginia governor’s race
NotMax
From the Big Book of Brass Balls: Hey, cut the guy a break. He laundered so much money that what’s left is “nominal.”
Elizabelle
@Kay: “SJW” tells us all “you don’t have to take anything else here said seriously.”
It’s a tell. Right up there with “Crooked Hillary” and “Democrat Party.”
SJW can be your friend!
Elizabelle
@chris: Happy to not know Peter Hitchens. Any relation to the late Christopher? (And not that I care that much …)
rikyrah
Leaked Documents Show Wilbur Ross Concealed Ties to Putin Cronies
NOV 5 2017, 1:00 PM ET
Wilbur Ross, the commerce secretary in the Trump administration, shares business interests with Vladimir Putin’s immediate family, and he failed to clearly disclose those interests when he was being confirmed for his cabinet position.
Ross — a billionaire industrialist — retains an interest in a shipping company, Navigator Holdings, that was partially owned by his former investment company. One of Navigator’s most important business relationships is with a Russian energy firm controlled, in turn, by Putin’s son-in-law and other members of the Russian president’s inner circle.
Some of the details of Ross’s continuing financial holdings — much of which were not disclosed during his confirmation process — are revealed in a trove of more than 7 million internal documents of Appleby, a Bermuda-based law firm, that was leaked to the German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/leaked-documents-show-commerce-secretary-concealed-ties-putin-cronies-n817711
dogwood
@Elizabelle:
Brother. At least I’m pretty sure it’s his brother.
sukabi
@glory b: would this be affiliated with the $2billion in assets he ‘forgot’?
J R in WV
@Elizabelle:
I think it goes all the way back to Punch Sultzberger, Pinch’s dad. They’ve been bad on politics since the 1930s, when they told America that the guy in Germany, Adolph, was going to be great for Europe, and we didn’t need to worry about him at all.
Since then they’ve continued to work in the background against the Democratic party and in favor of right wing totalitarianism, and now that includes Russia, which is no longer Socialist or Communist, and so is their best friend again.
Perhaps it is genuine political belief that drives them, otherwise it is a multi-generational global conspiracy beyond any fiction ever written. Or not. Maybe just multi-generational black-mailable behavior.
Gin & Tonic
@NotMax: Betcha this nice shiny new quarter that Paulie hasn’t shared all relevant information with his attorney.
Roger Moore
@debbie:
When it turns out that Trump’s only job was to get the coffee, we’ll know things are really coming to a head.
D58826
@rikyrah: seems Tillerson, Mnunchn and half of Silicon valley are in hock to Putin and his cronies. We might actually be looking at a situation where Der Fuhrer is the LEAST corrupt of the entire group. Sad!!!!!!
And some clown shot up a church in Texas.
JPL
@D58826: Amazing. It could be up to two dozen dead.
Baud
@D58826:
He won’t like not being #1.
Elizabelle
Per witness: Rumor of 27 deceased in that church in Texas? Wow.
“CNN is unable to verify those numbers.”
Why not Texas? Why not a Baptist Church?
CNN keeps saying “intimate community.” That is not something that keeps you safe from gun violence.
D58826
early reports – maybe 243 dead https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/927258474068758529
Baud
@D58826: I hate to say this, but I hope it’s white on white. It’s so much worse otherwise.
Fair Economist
@Roger Moore:
I wouldn’t even trust Trump to get coffee. Seriously, would you drink anything he brought you?
Baud
@D58826: Um, please edit.
Fair Economist
@D58826: 24 dead, not 243.
trollhattan
@Fair Economist:
After spending a good portion of my life mocking conspiracy buffs I might need to become one, but all this dot-connecting is making me dizzy.
Say what you will about Russkie intentions, their work ethic is impeccable.
NotMax
@Fair Economist
“Coffee? I swear you said covfefe.”
Elizabelle
@J R in WV: Thanks for comments on the NYTimes and the 1930s. Just starting to study up on that era now (since it feels like deja vu).
Please let me know if you all see more good media analysis of the NY Times, and what is going wrong there.
JPL
@tobie:
https://twitter.com/ATabarrok
Gin & Tonic
Here’s what it’s like to go 280mph in a car.
Gin & Tonic
@Elizabelle: They supported authoritarians, not just the Austrian guy. Joe Stalin, while starving millions to death, was just another leader. It was the Times’ Walter Duranty, if I’m not mistaken, who coined the phrase about omelets and eggs with respect to the famine that he knew about but studiously ignored. The Times has never returned Duranty’s Pulitzer.
NotMax
@Elizabelle
Should he not be mentioned in your studies, do take the time to look up some info on Gen. Smedley Butler, insofar as relevance to today goes.
sukabi
@Shana: traficante? Ohio… Huge hair that was a wig…he also reran for office while in prison.
dogwood
@D58826:
Trump is just an easy mark for corrupt con men and women who can use flattery and fake information to get him to do their bidding. He’s not even sophisticated enough to have come up with the Trump University scam on his own.
Elizabelle
@NotMax: Yeah, look forward to learning about General Butler too.
This would be a good topic for some blogposts. Historical parallels from the 1930s etc.
Corner Stone
@D58826: The Russians had all that stolen Oligarch money they had to do something with. Can’t keep it in Russia, and not in rubles. So they put it to work. Perfectly sensible.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@dogwood: That’s a good point. You’re making me think about this, which in turn makes me give a smidge of sympathy to the Trumpkins. I feel dirty.
D58826
@Fair Economist: obviously typo. sorry.
But the way things are going we may actually see that some day
HeleninEire
@Baud: That’s my thought now every time it happens.
J R in WV
@Chris:
While the fact of the matter is that Democratic administrations have saved the nation in the world’s worst depression, with half the nation about to starve to death, defeated two fascist powers on opposite sides of the world, rebuilt a shattered world after winning World War II, created a security network for everyone, legalized unionization, built a modern society, all while Republicans tried to steal crumbs falling from the table.
trollhattan
@Gin & Tonic:
Madness, although who among us doesn’t hold it in fourth until we hit 175? I think the camera helis were having trouble keeping up.
Those crafty Swedes use Nevada for their test track just like we Californians. (Pro tip: between Wells and Jackpot)
Another Scott
@FlipYrWhig: Same here, but I’m not on FB. I’d not seen more than a couple of TV ads either, but they were being run nearly continuously in SNL last night. Even those seemed to be much better for Team D than for the Teabaggers.
I’m optimistic that Vlad’s minions and bots will have little effect on Tuesday. Here’s hoping that quasi-normal people who pay attention to politics on FB got the memos and won’t be so easily played. :-/
Thanks for everyone working in the trenches. It’s important and appreciated.
Cheers,
Scott.
Redshift
@FlipYrWhig:
Agree. The only people who heard about it are political junkies, and they’re not going to not vote because of it.
The stupidest thing about the DFA business is that they weren’t publicly supporting Northam anyway, and if it affected turnout and activists at all, it would likely only hurt the delegate candidates they’re supporting. Nobody comes out and only votes the down-ticket races.
But as you said, not seeing any effect.
Redshift
I was out canvassing this afternoon, and my usual hub was so packed with volunteers that I had to go to a different one to get a packet. Lots of people coming out from DC to help out.
Seriously, I’ve never seen this level of activity in a governor’s election. It’s almost presidential campaign level.
J R in WV
@Elizabelle:
Thank you, she is one of the reasons I prefer not to subscribe to WaPo, along with Krauthammer the Despicable.
Elizabelle
@Redshift: Fabulous!! Always a good problem to have.
Not foolproof for forecasting, but good to hear.
No Drought No More
The assassin of Admiral Darlan was a fellow countryman and young man whose patriotic fervor, it is speculated, was manipulated by the British. I’ve read that when Ike confronted the British about it, they brazenly lied to his face. Conveniently for all concerned, as it transpired, as Darlan’s death eased Ike’s political headaches considerably. In any event, he did not purse the matter. Allegedly. Writing of the old-as-he-ever-got, young Frenchman Churchill later said: “He was tried by court-martial under [French General] Giraud’s orders, and much to his surprise, was executed by a firing squad shortly after dawn on December 26”. Much to no one’s surprise, Churchill neglected to mention the British had convinced the tragic-comic victim he would be hailed as a French Hero.
Republican party operatives are all American Greed-style grifters of one stripe or another, and I refuse to dignify their behavior by calling it misguided patriotism. But if there is one honest individual within Trump’s inner circle (although, to repeat, I seriously doubt it), that person must be feeling like that young fool the day after Christmas in 1942.
It’s sinister, too. I can think of a number of the Watergate players in Nixon’s White House that I would grant were motivated by a misguided patriotism. But not among this rotten bunch. Goes to show how far the cancer that John Dean once diagnosed in Nixon’s presidency has metastasized throughout the vital organs of rotting, un-American carcass that is the 2017 republican party.
Xenos
@sharl: this is reminiscent of ‘Hard Times’ where the capitalists promise too throw their factories into the sea because the workers want to eat venison with golden spoons. And here this thick SOB had actually wiped out his investment out spite.
If I were an advertiser for one of sites I would sue as he’ll be pissed off right now.
J R in WV
The sports car run was interesting, 284 mph was really fast. It was so fast that as the driver was slowing, 180 seemed slow, as just a moment before he was going 100 mph faster.
Kind of a waste, as no one can go that fast on a real road, and those rich enough to buy those don’t run them in races either. But interesting that it can be done at all. I do like interesting cars.
Brachiator
@dogwood:
People underestimate the degree to which Trump is the author of, and the guiding force behind, the current vile perversion of democracy.
chris
@Elizabelle: His brother.
Ruckus
@J R in WV:
If you race at high speed you get used to the speed and your focus narrows. When you go back to the real world the speed that others think is fast may be a lot slower than the slowest speed on the track. I’ve raced at a number of tracks where the slowest corner was taken well over the road speed limit. Even in the rain. Even better is to watch new people. Some think they are fast. Till they go out on the track for the first time. There are exceptions of course. but they are rare.
Dulcie
@FlipYrWhig: Mo-hair on a Mo-ron.