Donna Brazile Has Lost The Plot

I’m willing to believe that DWS was a Clinton stooge and fucked up the DNC. (I’ve never bought that the primaries were “rigged”-that’s a crock of shit that misreads the reason Sanders lost primaries.) So, I was willing to give Brazile the benefit of the doubt on her first set of revelations. But this, my friends, is bullshit:

Former Democratic National Committee head Donna Brazile writes in a new book that she seriously contemplated replacing Hillary Clinton as the party’s 2016 presidential nominee with then-Vice President Biden in the aftermath of Clinton’s fainting spell, in part because Clinton’s campaign was “anemic” and had taken on “the odor of failure.”

First, how the fuck was she going to do that? She was DNC chair, not occupant of the Iron Throne. Second, I’m not buying that she – alone – saw that Clinton was going to lose. Lots of smart people got that one way wrong. Third, how fucking dumb does she think we are?
This is just post-hoc reputation polishing and shit stirring to sell a book.
I know that Betty wrote about this topic (not this particular story) already today, and there certainly are better things to talk about, but this is nonsense on stilts. It is 2017, Bernie Sanders is too old to be a viable candidate in 2020, and we have some elections to win before then.

147 replies
  1. 1
    Quaker in a Basement says:

    Brazile wrote a book. I’ll bet a shiny quarter it’s about a lot more than HRC. But that’s what the villagers put in the headlines.

  2. 2

    *now* would be the perfect time to release a giant squid over the internet, or something

  3. 3
    Baud says:

    I never thought much about her, but I’m saddened to have her join the list of people that are not credible.

    The more serious issue going forward isn’t Brazile, who is finished, but WTF Liz Warren?

  4. 4
    Fair Economist says:

    While she was at it, I’m surprised she wouldn’t have nominated herself for VP, Cheney-style. If only she were qualified to pick the President, why not?

  5. 5
    Fair Economist says:

    @Quaker in a Basement: I’m thinking you’ve almost got to make up some crazy stuff to sell the memoir of a DNC chair. That kind of administrative position is inherently dull to read about.

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    The worst part is that she didn’t even consider me as Hillary’s replacement.

  7. 7
    Lyrebird says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Not sure if you’re joking or serious, but I do think the timing of the release of the book is another Thing That Makes Me Go Hmmm…

    Like, what is this shiny HRC-hate drop being used to distract us from? Virginia elections? Russia gate? idk I just think it stinks, and I haz a sad because Brazile is someone with a compelling story & lots of experience.

  8. 8

    The takeaway from the book is that she exhaustively investigated all of the DNC’s operations, and the only thing she could find that looked at all like rigging things for Hillary was a complicated financial relationship. The rest of her search showed they did not act on it to support Hillary. Of course, this is proof that the primary was rigged for Hillary. After the investigations of the emails and Clinton Foundation, I’m used to this song and dance by now.

  9. 9
    Mnemosyne says:



  10. 10
    Doug R says:

    If she knew Hillary was going to lose, she’s a Russian plant.
    She sure is acting like one now, or at least a “useful idiot”.

  11. 11

    @Lyrebird: Mangled Watchmen reference.

    Although come to think of it, this may explain why none of us have been getting out Soros bucks.

  12. 12
    Doug R says:

    @Baud: Liz is approaching the ditch rapidly, she needs to twitch that steering wheel away from undercutting the Hillz.

  13. 13

    Never would have thought that we’d Comey ourselves. This is a new low.

  14. 14
    James E. Powell says:

    DWS was hired and never fired by Barack Obama. When & how did she become a Clinton stooge?

  15. 15
    Baud says:

    @Doug R: Not really about Hillary but the party apparatus. People are going to lose primaries in the future. We can’t tolerate them making up fake stories about a rigged process.

  16. 16
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Thoroughly Pizzled:

    A troll in the other thread was wondering why we keep defending Hillary. This is why: because otherwise utter bullshit like this gets dropped on Democrats with no challenge and no pushback.

    I am so disappointed in Elizabeth Warren right now. I hope she’s getting an earful from her constituents for making this bad situation even worse.

  17. 17
    Baud says:

    @James E. Powell: I think when she didn’t expand the number of debates. Didn’t Tulsi start some rumor about that?

  18. 18
    Mnemosyne says:

    @James E. Powell:

    When she didn’t decide to void the primary and hand the nomination to Sanders.

  19. 19
    SFAW says:


    The worst part is that she didn’t even consider me as Hillary’s replacement.

    Actually, she did. However, when she heard about your private e-mail server, plus the “stench” associated with being a “valued commenter and stuff” at an almost-top-10,000 blog, plus your role in Benghaziiii!!!, she realized something-something-mumble-something, and your goose was cooked.

  20. 20
    Rjm says:


    And her fantasy picks skipped Bernie too

    eta Doh, I see I’m late to the party

  21. 21

    @Mnemosyne: Seriously. If they can do this to Hillary, they can do this to anyone.

  22. 22
    ruemara says:

    Brazille is nuts. Straight up nuts. And considering I had to spend time demonstrating that I could be drunk and still disprove her bullshit with sources, I resent her being part of any national conversation because she’s got a book to sell.

  23. 23
    Elizabelle says:

    Wonkette took Elizabeth Warren to task. Has no such affection for Donna “Hack” Brazile.

    family meeting
    Elizabeth Warren, We Love You So Fucking Much. You Are So Fucking Wrong Right Now.

    …. Senator Warren? We love you many bunches, but that is just fucking incorrect and you know it. Why? Why throw gasoline like that? WHY WHY WHY?

    In case not everyone has noticed, there is a lot going on right now. The Robert Mueller investigation is drawing actual blood, and in response, Baby Pol Pot is talking more and more like the authoritarian leader he dreams of being. Oh and then there are all the regular day-to-day horrors of the Trump regime, like labeling 10-year-old undocumented immigrant girls with cerebral palsy as national security threats. As Wonk pal Charlie Pierce notes, the Democratic Party is the “only vehicle capable of resisting Trumpism.” For real, and we are sorry if the DNC makes you mad sometimes (us too!), but he is absolutely correct.

    Also too, we have TWO major gubernatorial races coming up, in Virginia and New Jersey. (Holy shit! A new poll has the racist Republican UP THREE POINTS IN VIRGINIA. Fuck!)**

    And yet here we are, slap-fighting like brothers and sisters.

    ** Per Real Clear Politics, it’s a Republican polling firm. Other averages are still 1.5-2 points for Northam, which is too damn close.

    The timing on this is so goddamned nutty. Yes, it is the anniversary of last year’s stolen election. But with two big governor’s races this week, how the fuck do you (1) release the Brazile hack book and (2) take the fucking bait? [Talking to you, Sen. Warren. For shame.]

    Shame on all involved.

  24. 24
    Baud says:


    Obviously, the Bernie issue is sensitive here, but you’re correct. If you are seriously considering a replacement candidate, it makes no sense to leave him off the list completely.

  25. 25
    Baud says:

    @Thoroughly Pizzled:

    They did it to Gore and Kerry. The scale with Hillary was so off the charts, however, that it can be considered different in kind.

  26. 26
    Doug R says:

    Statewide, early returns showed about 54 percent of voters favoring Clinton, the former secretary of state, over Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders. But most of Washington’s delegates will still go to Sanders, who won the state’s caucuses by a landslide in March…..
    …Statewide, about 230,000 people attended the caucuses March 26 — far fewer than participated in Tuesday’s presidential primary.

    By Tuesday afternoon, about 1.3 million voters had returned their ballots, coming close to the 1.4 million voters that participated in the state’s last presidential primary in February 2008.

    The only “rigging” the Democratic party did was accepting the results of a caucus where 230,000 participated versus about a million in a primary.

  27. 27
    Baud says:

    @Elizabelle: Polling in that race is meaningless. There are like 30 point spreads.

  28. 28
    Baud says:

    @Doug R: Washington to me is exhibit 1 of why caucuses must go.

  29. 29
    Gvg says:

    Brazile wasn’t even the chair when the primary was being decided. She didn’t have the power to do it herself but I am understanding this to mean she tried to get other delegates to help do it. This would of course get back to Hillary if she actually spike to anyone. I think she may be making it up though.
    I never recall thinking she was an idiot or spiteful before. I wonder if she also has something like Alzheimer’s. Wonder what’s happening in the world that makes that leap to mind?

  30. 30
    Mnemosyne says:


    Another commenter was saying yesterday that she’s been diagnosed with a dissociative disorder, and the news since 11/8/16 seems to have been a major trigger for it. Reality has taken a left turn and it’s hard to keep everything straight.

  31. 31
    MisterForkbeard says:

    Brazile basically crossed the line from “public servant” to “liar willing to throw away everything she believed for money”. And fuck Warren for publicly buying into it, because it is and was obvious bullshit.

  32. 32
    GregB says:

    Not to go off topic, but the opening salvos in the broader Middle East war may be getting fired now.

    Palace intrigue as arrests roil Saudi Arabia.

    Yemen reportedly fire a missile at Riyadh.

    Harriri steps down as Lebanese PM citing Iranian threats.

    Israel shelling in Golan.

  33. 33
    Baud says:

    @Gvg: I thought this happened at the time Hillary fainted.

  34. 34
    Felony Govt (formerly Old Broad in California) says:

    Fox News is adept at inventing its own pseudo-scandals and BS. Absolutely no need for our side to hand them something to use against us, especially right before critical elections. I am livid at both Brazille and Warren.

  35. 35
    Citizen Alan says:

    Of all the astonishing things I’ve had to witness in American politics over the course of the last 20 years, the fact that Donna Brazile is still someone that people listen to and pay attention to 17 years after her catastrophic failure as Al Gore’s campaign manager must surely ranked in the top 10 if not higher.

  36. 36
    Mnemosyne says:


    At least the Sanders idea had been put up for a vote. Shoehorning Biden/Booker in there is just weird, especially if you’re trying to appeal to the actual left wing of the party and not just the misogynists.

  37. 37
    Doug R says:

    @Baud: Yup. I bring up Washington State whenever a Bernie bro claims “rigging”.

  38. 38

    @Baud: Which was at a 9/11 event, as I recall.

  39. 39
    Mnemosyne says:


    And Trump is in Asia for all of this, leaving Tillerson to try and figure out WTF is happening with no staff.

  40. 40

    The whole Hillary was/is very sick, too sick to be president, apparently is still widely spread among the right. My hair dresser is a RWNJ and she talked about this the last time I saw her.

  41. 41
    Felony Govt (formerly Old Broad in California) says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Which is pretty funny since Hillary obviously has lots more stamina than Shitgibbon.

  42. 42
    FlipYrWhig says:

    You might say Donna Brazile sounds like a… cancer.

  43. 43
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Donna Brazile put Joe Lieberman on the Gore ticket. That’s how fucking brilliant she was. Why anybody of consequence listened to her on anything other than a take-out order since then is beyond my understanding.

  44. 44
    Mary G says:

    @GregB: Yeah, this seems like a really big deal. Hopefully Adam and Cheryl are on it.

  45. 45
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @GregB: I’m not worried about that. Jared Kushner will fix it right up.

  46. 46 says:

    I just wonder how many people the Russians have compromised by hacking emails etc. and I wonder if Donna Brazile is one of them. I have no idea what Brazile thinks she’s going to accomplish by doing this. She doesn’t come across as a small petty person doing it for revenge.

  47. 47
    cosima says:

    I wonder who pushes these as headlines, and how do we change the dynamic that deems inter-party infighting as a more newsworthy than NEWS. More newsworthy than whatever f-ed up actions have been taken by Pruitt, DeVos, Zinke et al to undermine their departments and the long-term future of the US. Reading about Warren & Brazille — is it distraction? Why is it happening now?

  48. 48
    Elizabelle says:

    Rand Paul assaulted Friday by Kentucky man; he and his hair sound like they’re fine.

    Whole item from The Hill:

    Kentucky State Police have arrested a man accused of assaulting Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) at his home in Bowling Green, the senator’s office confirmed on Saturday.

    “Senator Paul was blindsided and the victim of an assault,” Kelsey Cooper, a spokeswoman for Paul, said in a statement. “The assailant was arrested and it is now a matter for the police. Senator Paul is fine.”

    The suspect was identified as 59-year-old Rene Boucher of Bowling Green, according to a statement from police. The Warren County Attorney’s Office issued a warrant for Boucher’s arrest shortly after the assault on Friday.

    Police are investigating the assault, according to the statement. Boucher has been charged with 4th degree assault, causing a minor injury.

    Assailant is from Bowling Green. Whew. Wondered about the comte/botsplainer’s whereabouts yesterday ….

  49. 49
    Tenar Arha says:

    @Mnemosyne: I was making my daily-weekly phone calls yesterday. So timing wise it worked out. Basically I said I was disappointed, do better. IIRC I said something like “not going to dwell on this, it’s something something stupid nothing (?), but should have been better prepared for this kind of question before going on tv & trapped.”

  50. 50
    wasabi gasp says:

    Brazile revealed the plot. Hillary lost it.

  51. 51
    Marcopolo says:

    @James E. Powell: just for clarity’s sake (and I too said DWS was hired by Obama in the prior thread), the head of the DNC is elected by state party officials (4 per state) and some other collected D party officials (not remembering ‘zactly who else) not appointed by the Prez. In operational reality, this means while O was Prez he got the person he wanted but just want make sure the process is clear.

  52. 52
    Baud says:

    @wasabi gasp: You are wise, comrade.

  53. 53
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    First, how the fuck was she going to do that? She was DNC chair, not occupant of the Iron Throne.

    DNC can pick whoever it wants, legally speaking:

  54. 54
    Baud says:

    @Elizabelle: Site of the famous massacre?

  55. 55
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Baud: No, I thought that one was in Ohio.

  56. 56
    jnfr says:

    Thanks to folks in the other thread who helped catch me up on the narrow path to replacing a nominee. Brazile must have quite a fantasy life.

  57. 57
    germy says:

    Here’s Donna Brazile in 2008 taking credit for foisting Joe Lieberman on Democratic voters in 2000— Robert Mackey (@RobertMackey) November 4, 2017

  58. 58
    Amaranthine RBG says:


    Sounds like terrorism. Bowling Green is the muslim part of Kentucky.

  59. 59
    germy says:

    Here is Donna Brazile in 2008 taking credit for foisting Joe Lieberman on Democratic voters in 2000:— Robert Mackey (@RobertMackey) November 4, 2017

  60. 60
    debbie says:


    Ohio and Kentucky both have Bowling Greens.

  61. 61
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @debbie: So does Manhattan.

  62. 62
    Elizabelle says:

    @Amaranthine RBG:

    LOL. I’d forgotten about that. Bowling Green is a way cool little town, with a good BBQ and downhome type restaurant.

    PBS Snooze Hour just ran a photo of the assailant who “blindsided” Rand Paul, who suffered a “minor injury.”

    Suspect is white male, with what looks like his own hair. He is not smiling.

  63. 63

    @Mnemosyne: Is there a source for this? I’ve been thinking that the only possible explanations for Brazile’s actions are a mental break or having been turned.

    On one hand, I wouldn’t wish any of these disorders on anyone (I’m suffering one as well); on the other hand, she still needs to shut the fuck up and stop stirring shit less than a week before an important election; on the third hand, the rest of us with dissociative disorders really don’t need the stigma her actions are going to create for us if they’re a contributing factor to her actions.

    … oh, wait, you probably meant me, not Brazile. Whoops. Never mind then.

  64. 64
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    I’m going with jilted lover as the motivation in the Second Bowling Green Massacre.

  65. 65
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Might be misremembering but I’m pretty sure I saw or heard that Tillerson is traveling with Trump on this Asian marathon. Not, obviously, that he couldn’t be diverted to the ME or returned to DC if necessary.

  66. 66
    Elizabelle says:

    I really like Bowling Green. Beautiful area. I think it might have an underground river. It’s pretty much a straight NNE shot above Nashville; little more than an hour’s drive. Less than that to Mammoth Cave (to its north). And Louisville. Great river city.

    I wish Kentucky was not so damned Republican. But for that, it’s lovely. As is Tennessee. And I hope we can get North Carolina back, sooner rather than later.

    Makes me sad, how much of our beautiful country is turning rotten and selfish and backwards.

  67. 67
    Kathleen says:

    @SFAW: “Sources” tell me that the Russians had video of Poco engaged in an especially egregious butt sniffing activity. Also blind item on Breitbart. Sorry, Quinerly. On the plus side, Poco has material for a “Betrayed By Baud” memoir.

  68. 68
    sukabi says:

    @germy: hmmmm, sounds like she takes advice from whom ever whispers in her ear…if she was as smart as she thinks she is, she might have done a bit of research into how loathed Lieberman was at the time, and he was loathed.

  69. 69
    Kathleen says:

    @Elizabelle: Condolences to the state of Kentucky for its second Bowling Green Massacre.

  70. 70
    Kathleen says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I think it was Kentucky.

  71. 71
    Elizabelle says:

    Soon we will find out that suspect’s wife worked in the Senator’s Bowling Green office … didn’t something like that happen a while back, out west?

  72. 72
    barb 2 says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Lieberman — and Gore. Talk about a poorly run campaign.

    Brazile is letting the wolf out of her sheep’s clothing.

    I personally can never forget that she is a good friend of Karl Rove.

    Today, they chirpily exchange e-mail, chat on the phone and write letters, indulging in their shared zeal for the inner workings of politics.

    ”I like her a lot,” said Mr. Rove, now ensconced in the West Wing as President Bush’s chief political adviser.

    Ms. Brazile, a committed Democrat who was the first black woman to manage a presidential campaign, has built similar relationships with other Republicans, like Grover Norquist, an influential conservative strategist.

    It’s a link to the NYT — but I’ve read similar from other sources. I do NOT trust the woman.

  73. 73
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    @barb 2:

    If this was poorly run:

    Bush 271
    Gore 266

    What would you say this is:
    Trump 304
    Clinton 227

  74. 74
    Elizabelle says:

    Politico. And my apologies if you are not interested in any news of Rand Paul. Sensible, you would be.

    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) was assaulted by his neighbor at his Bowling Green residence, police say, an altercation the suspect admitted to a Kentucky State trooper, according to an arrest warrant obtained by POLITICO on Saturday.

    According to the warrant, Paul was tackled from behind by his neighbor, Rene Boucher, 59, at 3:21 p.m on Friday. The senator was “blindsided” but is “fine,” a spokesperson for Paul said.

    Boucher’s altercation with Paul left the senator having difficulty breathing as a result of a “possible rib injury” in addition to bleeding from cuts around his mouth. Paul was seeking medical help for his injuries, the warrant said. …

    You guys ever tackle your neighbors? We may eventually hear moar on this one …

  75. 75
    cokane says:

    fainting spell was Sept 11 too. how the fuck could you replace a nominee that late in the race? And as one person in the party?

  76. 76
  77. 77
    sukabi says:

    @barb 2: well, that explains who she was listening to.

  78. 78
    jl says:

    I didn’t support HRC in the primaries because I thought her policy proposals were inadequate and her approach to politics was wrong headed for 2016. And anyone who has zero life can go check my comments on my concerns at the time, and can also see me getting yelled at in the comments for that. Of course, I supported her and did some work for her campaign in the general.

    OTOH, I don’t see the revelations so far as much of anything and Brazile can go stuff it. For one, in terms of the election, I don’t see that the DNC or Brazile, DWS, or Schumer, or other big wigs, had a better grasp of the politics needed to win in 2016 than HRC did. And Biden was going to be game changer, if hew saddled with bad DNC election strategy? And as other commenters mentioned, how was Brazile gong to make this change?

    The docs that I saw describing the deal, pretty clearly attempt to separate the primary from the general. The DNC was broke and NRC had the money. She thought she know what needed to be done in order to win (and as I said, I had doubts about her approach) , and I don’t see why she should be expected to bail out the DNC without asking for any input or say in how DNC used the money for the general, which was going to mainly for her and Congressional campaigns.

    I do think this sad state of affairs shows the dangers of relying on big funder big money politics, and a few pooh-bah magic rainmaker fundraisers like HRC DWS, and that Obama and Sanders were correct to move towards more grassroots small donor fundraising. I think Sanders, and the Dems who are following him, are nuts to think that it is possible to switch off big funder money immediately and still compete at local state and national levels, but party needs to find a way to move in that direction.

  79. 79
    JaneSays says:

    @Baud: Agreed about needing to get rid of caucuses, but it’s worth noting that Barack Obama would almost certainly not have become president without them. It’s the one thing that made him the nominee over Clinton in 2008 (remember, she actually beat him in the Democratic primary popular vote).

  80. 80
    TriassicSands says:

    I’ve never thought much of Brazile. Rather, I’ve always thought she was a representative of much of what is wrong with the Democratic Party, not a source for ways to fix anything.

    I don’t have a grain of salt small enough with which to take her book.

    I’m far from a devoted HRC fan, but it seems to me that the point of this book is entirely personally self-serving to its author.

    I eagerly await the day — soon I hope — when I can return to ignoring all things Brazile.

  81. 81
    Ajabu says:

    Just remember the old adage:
    “All our skinfolk are not kinfolk”
    But Donna B., WTF????

  82. 82
    jl says:

    My cynical best guess is that Brazile wants to position herself to still be a big player after the Democratic Party hashes out some compromise between the establishment and the Sanders supporters and allies. I think clearly there will be some compromise, and I think it would be a good thing. Establishment Dem approach to winning elections doesn’t have a good track record. Sure we can yell about how everything was unfair, Russians! and media and whatnot. But we give those highly paid bigshots money to solve those problems, which are not going away. The establishment Democrats have a bad record at winning elections, absent exceptional political candidates like Bill Clinton and Obama, and Warren, who have shown they can win tough elections.

    But I certainly don’t trust the Bernie fanatics to come up with a feasible alternative on their own. I certainly don’t have confidence that the party can fund itself 100 percent on small grass roots donations and win local, state, and national elections. And with Bernie, there is the problem of huge promises, and sketchy no practical plans to follow through and achieve the promises.

    I hope the Democratic Party can reach a compromise and produce a Bernally Clinters approach.

  83. 83

    @JaneSays: Much as I love Obama and think he’s by far the greatest president of my lifetime, I have to wonder whether having Clinton as the nominee in 2008 would’ve been better. I don’t think she’d have been as prone to thinking she could get the Republicans to compromise with her for as long as Obama did, and she might also have taken state and local elections more seriously. Moreover, I don’t know if the media’s Clinton Rules would’ve been as strongly in action in 2008 due to the financial crisis – and if they had been, they might not have been as consequential – while Obama might still have received reasonably balanced coverage in 2016.

    It’s tough to know this for certain, but gaming out the alternate history where Clinton gets the nomination in 2008 makes me think things might ultimately have ended up better in the long run. Note that I’m saying this as someone who didn’t care for her at all in 2008 and was lukewarm on her during the primaries in 2016 (I did become quite an enthusiastic supporter by the general election, though).

  84. 84
    Fair Economist says:


    It’s the one thing that made him the nominee over Clinton in 2008 (remember, she actually beat him in the Democratic primary popular vote).

    Yes, but a huge proportion of those primary votes were Republican ratf*ckers. There were more Clinton-McCain voters than Sanders-Trump. Amongst real Democrats, she’d probably have lost that decisively too.

  85. 85
    tobie says:

    @Fair Economist:

    There were more Clinton-McCain voters than Sanders-Trump.

    Factor in Sanders-Stein and Sanders-Johnson voters, plus unprecedented voter suppression in Wisconsin and Michigan, and you get a very different picture.

  86. 86
    jl says:

    Some tweets on Josh Marshall twitter earlier today say that the WaPo piece had some big mistakes in it and are changing their story.
    I don’t think it changes the bottom line though on whether Brazile has some big insights and political genius that HRR, DWS, Schumer, and company didn’t and don’t.

  87. 87
    LurkerNoLonger says:

    @Elizabelle: I have to be honest, If I lived next to Rand Paul I would have gone nuts too.

  88. 88
    Baud says:

    @Fair Economist:

    There were more Clinton-McCain voters than Sanders-Trump.


  89. 89
    Baud says:

    @JaneSays: Agree. But they are wrong even if they helped give us Obama in 2008.

  90. 90
    PsiFighter37 says:

    @(((CassandraLeo))): Doubt it. She would have gone the same way on HC at first, if only as an overreaction to what happened in the early 1990s.

    The only thing that Hillary may have been (marginally) better at would have been thinking about the bigger picture for the Democratic Party. However, the party didn’t do so hot under Bill Clinton either when he was in office. I think there needs to be a wholesale rethink about how the party is run. Each of them had their own problems, but I really don’t know if we will see a string of electoral success we had under Howard Dean, Rahm Emmanuel, and Chuck Schumer again anytime soon – and that’s with a walking disaster in the White House and a shitload of sycophants on the other side.

  91. 91
    Calouste says:

    Brazile hasn’t lost the plot, as long as the plot is, as Wilmer, has shown, that there is pretty good gritting to be had on the left as well. Not as good as on the right, but there’s less competition in gritting on the left still.

  92. 92
    Fair Economist says:

    @Baud: Numbers vary, but in this from Vox there were 15% Clinton-McCain voters and 12% Sanders-Trump.

  93. 93
    Elizabelle says:

    @LurkerNoLonger: Indeed. Even drives fellow physicians to violence.


    Paul and Boucher live in the same gated community along Rivergreen Lane in Bowling Green, Ky., according to two people close to Paul who spoke on the condition of anonymity out of respect for the senator. Boucher is an anesthesiologist who has been recovering from injuries related to a recent bike accident, according to one of the people close to Paul.

    He is the inventor of the Therm-a-Vest, a cloth vest partially filled with rice and secured with Velcro straps that is designed help with back pain, according to the Bowling Green Daily News.

    The biking accident. Hmmmm. I personally know someone whose personality changed drastically after a brain injury, from a bicycle accident without a helmet. He became combative; his personal life went to hell.

    Of course, it could be a knee injury and there was another reason a medical professional would tackle Kentucky’s junior US Senator on a Friday afternoon in broad daylight …

  94. 94
    Baud says:

    @Fair Economist: Thanks for the link. I tracked the source of that stat to this link.

    Seems like a survey in 2016 about the 2008 election. Not a contemporaneous poll.

    ETA:. Actually, I can’t make heads or tails of the comparison.

  95. 95
    Jeffro says:

    Here’s why I don’t give a crap about DB, Hillz, Wilmer, Biden, any of it:
    1) the flaming train wreck that is the Trumpov Party still has a year to go until 2018 and three years to go until 2020
    2) Everyone’s going to be so sick of all the olds in the Democratic Party and the infighting between them that a fresh face & (relatively) short resume will be a near shoo-in for the nom. Add an Obama endorsement and boom, we’re there

  96. 96
    mike in dc says:

    There needs to be an organized counter-effort to call bullshit on all this.

  97. 97
    Elizabelle says:

    @Jeffro: I am just crossing my fingers for a resounding victory for Northam, Fairfax, Herring on Tuesday. We have to win.

  98. 98
    jl says:

    Our cheesy miserably failed media at work again: from reading Josh Marhsall’s twitter, apparently WaPo misunderstood or misreported what Brazile said about being empowered to replace the nominee. And of course, did so without indicating it had to make a correction or exactly what the correction was. Not that it makes much difference. Brazile wasn’t delusional, apparently she was spinning out a heroine fantasy of how she could have come to the rescue in some hypothetical that did not happen.

    And I also see that lazy reporters are also starting to use ‘rigged Democratic primary’ as a meme.

    As I said, my cynical side says that this is Brazile’s way to try to stay a bigshot in Democratic Party machinery after they hash out a way forward. She could have done that by getting involved in working out a good compromise between the establishment and the progressives. Instead she pulls sensational PR stunts with with this dumbass book.

  99. 99
    stinger says:

    @Elizabelle: Poor Bowling Green. That’s two terrorist attacks in, I don’t know how long.

  100. 100
    Mnemosyne says:


    Yes, I realized after the edit window closed that the pronouns might be confusing. I was referring to you and not to Brazile.

  101. 101
    Lyrebird says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Thanks – I’ve got big gaps in my media literacy, obvs!

  102. 102
    Citizen Alan says:


    I’ve often thought about that. I think that if Hillary had won in 2008, the Repukes would have acted just the same but everyone would have put it down to a continuation of Clinton Derangement Syndrome. But with Obama winning, the conduct of the GOP proves that it’s not just the Clintons. They will treat ANY Democratic President like a babykilling Marxist who somehow stole the election.

  103. 103
    Betty Cracker says:

  104. 104
    Mnemosyne says:

    @wasabi gasp:

    And Brazile’s big reveal turned out to be the political equivalent of this.

    I swear, you guys, I thought it was a mountain lion!

  105. 105
    Fair Economist says:


    Brazile wasn’t delusional, apparently she was spinning out a heroine fantasy of how she could have come to the rescue in some hypothetical that did not happen.

    To me the biggest issue is how arbitrarily she chose the replacements. Biden was just wrong in the (not totally insane) hypothetical that Clinton had to quit. Also, too, deciding she would just get to boot Kaine too for the heck of it.

  106. 106
    Kathleen says:

    @Elizabelle: I think Rand’s hair may have pooped in his neighbor’s roses.

  107. 107
    tobie says:

    @jl: Well, if this is how Brazile thinks she’s going to remain a player in the Democratic party, she’s totally mistaken. I also reject your frame of the split in the party as one between the establishment and progressives. Everyone who comments here regularly considers himself or herself a progressive. I’d say the split is between the pragmatic and ideological wings of the party. Some like things in broad outlines. That was certainly Reagan’s appeal and ironically I see Sanders in the exact same mold. Others like to talk about how to implement policy to ensure affordable education, universal healthcare, etc. This is the split, and it’s a big one, but it’s not a matter of who is more progressive.

  108. 108
    stinger says:

    @stinger: Sigh. Shoulda read the rest of the thread before commenting.

  109. 109
    Lyrebird says:

    @Betty Cracker: Thanks for the pointer. It’s a beautiful statment.

    The wrap:

    All Democrats should be doing everything they can — canvassing, phone banking, etc. — to help our candidates for Governor of Virginia and New Jersey and the other races around the country next Tuesday.

  110. 110
    Johnnybuck says:

    Earth tones…

  111. 111
    SFAW says:

    OMFG, not Poco?!?! Our last, best hope for appealing to those stalwarts who, although they (claim to) support the Democrat Party, were heard to comment during the campaign, “Yeah, Trump is a racist and fascist, but that Hillary — well, I JUST DON’T KNOW.”

    And now Poco is found to be all-too-human. So to speak.

    (Sobs into keyboard)

  112. 112
    James E. Powell says:

    @Citizen Alan:

    Any Democratic official who criticizes Democrats gets on the front page and on all The Shows for as long as they can keep the story going. Any Democratic official who criticize the Clintons or Obama is regarded as a star.

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    mike in dc says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Hopefully there will be pushback on the “rigged” allegation as well, and Warren will get pressured to walk back her agreement. Because this is the kind of bullshit the party and the people don’t need.

  115. 115
    the Conster says:


    Warren’s my Senator and she’s gotten her head handed to her. Her re-election is not jeopardy. Hillary beat Trump in a much bigger margin than she beat Scott Brown.

  116. 116
    Kathleen says:

    @SFAW: Please don’t tell Quinnerly. Also hearing rumors Baud may sue. Stay tuned.

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  118. 118
    dogwood says:

    She beat him in the primary vote by a sliver if you count the state, Michigan, where hers was the only name on the ballot.

  119. 119
    msdc says:

    @Betty Cracker: Good for them. We need more of this.

  120. 120
    the Conster says:

    Brazile’s not stupid. She’s not naive. She knows how important This Week is, so she’s either off her meds, or the Russians got to her.
    Warren’s conduct is inexcusable. She’s my Senator, but she’s dead to me. Bernie’s a parasite that kills the host, or a cancer that kills the host. She’s chosen to pander to deplorables instead of supporting me and mine and all of us who voted for Hillary, then marched in Resistance. Never trust anyone who’s been a Republican for most of their adult life. She voted for Reagan twice.

  121. 121
    the Conster says:


    Joe Lieberman is the reason why Obama didn’t get a public option. So of course all the idiot Berniebros now love her because she confirmed all their worst fantasies about the eeeeeeevvilllllllllllllllllllllll Hillary Clinton, who fought hard for UHC as First Lady, and now they can use MEDICARE4ALL as a Tea Party litmus test to further divide, never either understanding or caring that they’ll never accomplish that goal this way.

  122. 122
    SFAW says:


    Please don’t tell Quinnerly.

    She won’t hear it from me. But Ozark may say something, just because he hates her.

  123. 123
    Another Scott says:

    @Gin & Tonic: In fairness, Gore must have agreed.


    I was furious at him for picking Holy Joe. It was an own-goal.


  124. 124
    Corner Stone says:

    @Betty Cracker: Holy shit. Like a 100 people just whipped their metaphorical dicks out and pissed all over Donna Brazile. And now a de facto Elizabeth Warren.

  125. 125
    James E. Powell says:

    @Another Scott:

    At the time, I thought Lieberman was on the ticket to win Florida. But for the butterfly ballot, it would have worked.

  126. 126
    the Conster says:

    @James E. Powell:

    This is us Dems biggest problems and always has been. The media is sexist as fuck, racist and anti-liberal. Us Dems are “those people” to the media, where it’s all just a game, and someone like Donna Brazile – a black woman who confirms all the Fox watchers worst fantasies about the eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevvillllllllllllllllllllllll Killary Clinton is irresistible. Plus she sounds a little crazy.

  127. 127
    Another Scott says:

    @James E. Powell: Dunno. Gore lost his home state of Tennessee, a state Clinton/Gore won twice. Tennessee would have put him over the top even with losing Florida.

    I don’t remember enough about the polling, but IIRC Gore losing Tennessee was a bit unexpected.


  128. 128
    Corner Stone says:

    I don’t know about anybody else. But I, for one, am really interested in what Young Zach has to say now.

  129. 129
    dogwood says:

    I love the way you equate Elizabeth Warren to Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. A Democrat running for the Senate in a blue state , during a presidential year with a democratic president with high approvals in the state on the ballot shouldn’t be in a ”tough” race. It’s a dream scenario. It certainly doesn’t put her in the same category as Clinton or Obama. She has done nothing since her election to suggest she has the first clue about how to appeal to a broad national electorate. Yet Democrats should take a lesson from her?

  130. 130
    RAM says:

    She at least used to seem like a reasonable, thoughtful person. Did she have a stroke or something?

  131. 131
    jl says:

    @tobie: Your characterization is OK with me. Not sure what the best wording is for the two sides.

    I am concerned about some in both the HRC sides and Bernie side becoming way too ‘tribal’ in their loyalties Electorally, I think they are both history and both flawed enough as politicians that I don’t see any big gains in trying to carry on either’s legacies in terms of how to run a campaign for design a platform. BS can try to reproduce his primary run in 2020, but it will be a different time, and will be different opponents. And Bernie is not a flexible person, I think he’ll try to rerun the exact same campaign.

  132. 132
    jl says:

    @dogwood: Could HRC have won the race Warren did? That was my point. Simply giving her name as an example of someone who could win a race where (admittedly my opinion) I am not sure HRC could have won is not equating them in all ways. And that was the point of my comparison. You think Warrens; initial win was in a ‘dream’ scenario election? Well, we disagree,then.

  133. 133
    Elizabelle says:

    @Another Scott: We must never forget:

    Gore would have won Florida, easily, without Palm Beach’s infamous butterfly ballot. Rolled out without sufficient testing; it confused elderly Jewish Democratic voters into voting for Pat Buchanan. Cost a couple thousand votes, minimum.

    I remember seeing him laughing (on TV) on Election Night: “those aren’t my voters.” It was funny, because its significance was not yet apparent.

    Set the stage for Chicken Dancing Katherine Harris and Jeb! to steal the state. We were so fucked by the butterfly ballot, and it has disappeared down the memory hole.

    Because it is inconvenient as hell. It does not fit “the narrative.”

  134. 134
    dogwood says:

    You didn’t compare her to HRC; you compared her to Bill and Barack. So how difficult would that race have been for Obama? Or better yet, since Obama’s a male, albeit black, how hard would it have been for Gillibrand, Klobuchar, or Baldwin? Not as hard.

  135. 135
    J R in WV says:


    Oh, hell, you guys know Quinnerly and OzarkHillbilly hang around the same part of Mizzery. They’re close to being buddies. And Poco never did anything all the other dogs don’t do!!

  136. 136
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Another Scott:

    Agreed. There is absolutely no question in my mind that he would have decisively won Florida if he’d picked Bob Graham as his running mate.

  137. 137
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:





    your clinton derangement syndrome is as bad as the alt-right


  138. 138
    Juju says:

    @Elizabelle: Is it another Bowling Green massacre?

  139. 139
    James E. Powell says:

    @Another Scott:

    Tennessee was not an unexpected loss for Gore/Lieberman in 2000. I don’t recall it being talked about very much because by then the white supremacy party had been governors & senators for a few years.

  140. 140
  141. 141
    SFAW says:

    @J R in WV:

    Yes, I know. I was just busting Ozark’s chops (no doubt a wasted effort, since he’s probably not awake for this thread). It has seemed apparent for awhile that he and Quinerly are friends.

  142. 142
    SFAW says:

    @James E. Powell:

    Tennessee was not an unexpected loss for Gore/Lieberman in 2000. I don’t recall it being talked about very much

    Except by the Naderites. “St Ralph the Pure had NOTHING TO DO with that losing loser Gore losing the election. Gore was such a losing loser, since his losingly lost his own home state, the LOSER!”

    Reason # 237 why I hate the Naderites. [To be clear: I’m talking about the ones who continued and continue to explain away Nader’s effect on the 2000 race, not the ones who voted for him, then said “Shit! What did I do?” later on.]

  143. 143
    Kathleen says:

    @J R in WV: Of course! But you know how the media feel about Democratic dogs (I’m assuming Poco votes blue?) Poco could never get away with doing with “other dogs do”.

    I’d like to see Baud/Poco ticket on Meet the Press.

  144. 144
    Kathleen says:

    @Quinerly: Busted! Again!

  145. 145
    Gindy51 says:

    @Lyrebird: Her check from Putin cleared….

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  147. 147
    LanceThruster says:


    As does this.

Comments are closed.