Last night several of you asked me in comments if I’d seen a segment on The Rachel Maddow Show where she took a deep dive into connecting the dots between Chad being placed on the latest travel ban list; Chad then withdrawing its troops from the multi-national forces working to interdict Boko Haram, al Qaeda in the Maghreb, and other violent extremists in the western Sahel; and the ambush on Soldiers from the 3rd Special Forces Group and the Nigerien Soldiers they were training, advising, and assisting. Once I got a chance to watch the segment, I replied with:
Okay I’ve gotten through the Maddow segment. What she’s positing – that the violent extremists planned and carried out the ambush or, at least, took their planning operational when they did because Chad had withdrawn its forces because of inclusion on the travel ban – is plausible. I’m not sure, however, that we have enough information now to make that conclusion. I’m also not sure we ever will. It is almost a counterfactual type of argument.
This was at 11:23 PM last night. I had not gone and tried to ascertain where in Niger or other parts of the western Sahel the Chadian forces were operating or what they were tasked with doing before they were withdrawn. I was wrong, it was not plausible. Fortunately, Laura Seay, a political scientist who specializes in west Africa, has provided her expertise to debunk Dr. Maddow’s theory. While Dr. Seay’s whole debunking can be found at this link, I’m going to highlight what I think are the key pieces below.
Chadian forces that withdrew from Niger were stationed in Diffa, a region of Niger that has suffered greatly at the hands of Boko Haram. 3/n
— Laura Seay (@texasinafrica) October 20, 2017
Diffa is here. As you can see, it borders Nigeria & Chad at the heart of the territory Boko Haram terrorizes. 4/n pic.twitter.com/6OZ3eHrRCo
— Laura Seay (@texasinafrica) October 20, 2017
The tragic deaths of 4 American & 5 Nigerien soldiers in an ambush on Oct. 4 occurred in Tongo Tongo. Which is here: pic.twitter.com/FMfwBDYbWj
— Laura Seay (@texasinafrica) October 20, 2017
Tongo Tongo is 733 miles from Diffa (as the crow flies). By road, that's at least a 24-hour journey. 8/n pic.twitter.com/PQKPlOsIqJ
— Laura Seay (@texasinafrica) October 20, 2017
…against a completely different group of militants fighting in a conflict very different from that involving Boko Haram in the east. 10/n
— Laura Seay (@texasinafrica) October 20, 2017
There are two important points to emphasize as a result of all of this. The first is that subject matter expertise matters. Having access to specialists like Dr. Seay with deep knowledge of a region and its culture, sociology, politics, economics, religion, human geography, etc prevents this type of mistake from being made. While Dr. Maddow and her staff have access to a lot of quality military and security analysts through NBC/MSNBC, what she really needed yesterday was someone with subject matter expertise in the western Sahel, its politics, and the deployment of the various military forces in the region to troubleshoot her reporting.
The second is that the two real lines of inquiry into what went wrong are 1) the seeming intelligence failure and 2) the abysmal lack of support available for 3rd Special Forces Group Soldiers and their host country partners in case something went wrong. What the investigators need to learn is why there seemed to be a bad intelligence assessment that indicated the risk of attack was low enough to conduct train, advise, and assist (Foreign Internal Defense) operations along the western Nigerien border when, in fact, an attack was planned, extremists were in the area, and an ambush was imminent. Something got missed and what has to happen is a determination of what was not collected, or overlooked if collected, or not considered relevant if not overlooked, in order to keep it from happening again. Intelligence is art, backed up by social and behavioral and physical science, not science itself. So mistakes will happen. The key is to learn from them so as not to tragically replicate them.
The investigators also need to determine who decided that it was acceptable to deploy around 800 US military personnel with no close air support and aviation based casualty evacuation. CNN has reported that a short term bridge contract was in place. But that contract was woefully inadequate.
“In August 2017, US Transportation Command approved a sole source contract to hire Berry Aviation to provide one fixed wing aircraft and one rotary wing aircraft in Niamey for, among other duties, casualty evacuation. This sole source bridge contract runs through the end of this month, October 2017,” Mack told CNN.
Contractor aircraft are typically not armed, though their crews may carry side-arms for personal protection.
Was this contract put in place because Special Operations Aviation Command, Special Operations Command Africa, US Army Africa, and/or AFRICOM couldn’t provide air support, for whatever reasons, for 90 days and this was to get over the hump in what was considered to be a largely permissive environment? Or was this contract issued because someone had decided this was all the air support these Soldiers might need? Someone made a decision that one unarmed fixed wing and one unarmed rotary wing aircraft were all that was needed to support almost a battalion’s worth of Soldiers in this operating environment. We need to know why this decision was made and how it was justified. And changes have to be put into place to prevent this from happening again. US military personnel should not be deployed without the resources to back them up and take care of them if something goes wrong.
Full disclosure: I authored the cultural preparations of the operational environment on Mali (2013), the Republic of South Sudan (2012), and Nigeria (2011) for US Army Africa.
Manyakitty
Useful. Thanks.
cervantes
I don’t think it’s at all unusual that the U.S. military doesn’t know squat about places where it operates. That seems pretty standard to me.
d58826
Not making light of what happened but I wonder how even the subject matter experts keep all of the players straight, esp if you are an SME on east Africa but a group bleeds over from west Africa on the border between the two regions.
I agree that a complete investigation, even involving Congress, should be conducted. However, assuming the D’s regain control on one house of Congress, they should not turn it into a Benghazi payback circus. These things are two important, lives are at stake.
lollipopguild
We have a very big powerful military but they cannot be everywhere. Sooner or later something like this was going to happen and as long as trump is President it will probably happen again.
raven
@d58826: Why not?
Big Ole Hound
c’mon Trey Gowdy…where are you? Chicken Shit GOP piece of shit.
d58826
@raven: If you mean the Benghazi circus, I would like to think that most Americans are better than what has been on display from the GOP. I must plead guilty however that that faith has been sorely tested over the past few years.
raven
@d58826: I guess it has.
J R in WV
Since this is partly Open Thread, I would like to ask the Louisville People’s Republic commenters if they are familiar with the People’s House Project, president is Krystal Ball.
I just got an email from them, they’re about to announce congressional candidates they will be supporting. The refer to me as a long time supporter, which can’t be right as I’ve never heard of them before that I recall. I may have contributed to candidates they were supporting in the past, don’t recall that either.
So if you know anything about them, let us know, as they sound progressive and all.
Thanks!
Adam L Silverman
@cervantes: The US military does. We have foreign area officers, intelligence officers, etc. Maddow had no idea.
James Powell
@d58826:
Sorely tested? I can’t imagine how anyone could still have faith that most Americans are better than what most Americans have been acting like for decades. This is a country filled to the brim with selfish, bigoted morons. Or, as Hunter S Thompson put it many years ago, “[J]ust a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable.”
trollhattan
@J R in WV:
“I see in your wallet, dead presidents who want to be free to help us. Free the presidents, free the presidents. We also like Franklin, who wasn’t technically a president.”
A Ghost To Most
Thanks, Adam. So much bullshit flying around these days, and some of it from our side.
Baud
I didn’t seen the Maddow segment at issue, but from what I heard about it, she reported it as a possibility and not as fact. Maybe they should have done more research, but I don’t want to put her in a Trump-like category if that’s the case.
Betty Cracker
@J R in WV: I think Ball is a Bernie dead-ender, FWIW.
schrodingers_cat
Its T’s responsibility, for they died when he was in charge. I would like to know why. Enough of this bullshit about who called whom.
Betty Cracker
I trust Maddow more than anyone else in the biz. If she was wrong, I think she’ll correct it or at least air the opposing view and let viewers make up their own minds.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: Don’t you know we women should just shut up and retire to the kitchen, and be sacred. The great CoS said so yesterday. BTW that statement and sentiment would not be out of place in one of Modi’s more awful party members’ speeches. I am sure Mullah Omar would approve of that as well.
NotMax
@J R in WV
For what it’s worth, personal opinion is that Ball has always been a self-aggrandizing weathervane, with all the depth of an oil slick.
mardam422
Not that I know, but weren’t there also Chadian forces that were withdrawn that had been in Mali, nearby. Fighting the same group of rebels that were in the area around Tongo Tongo. Just asking.
d58826
@schrodingers_cat: And apparently he misstated what the Congresswoman said at the 2015 dedication of a building in honor of two murdered FBI agents. Seems the Miami newspaper DOES have the video.
schrodingers_cat
@d58826: Birds of a feather flock together. Lying fucking liars.
Leto
So here’s my issue with Seay’s tweets: she’s not providing any information about why Maddow’s wrong other than, these are two different places. Did the withdrawl of Chadian forces force a shift in Nigerien forces that caused them to not be able to provide as much support in the Tongo Tongo region? What were host country troop levels in that area before/after withdrawl? Were enemy forces able to shift attention to the TT region because of the Chadian withdrawl? Also according the Reuter’s report at the time Chad was withdrawing: Chad warned at the time the order could affect its security commitments – which include its involvement in the U.S.-backed fight against Boko Haram. This seems to play right into that.
Again, Sealy doesn’t provide any other context/SME information other than “look, these are two different areas”, but it doesn’t answer the questions above, nor actually go any deeper than pointing to a map. Hopefully the investigation (should the admin release it) will answer this. (Yes, did read the entire tweet thread, no don’t want Dems to bash the admin like Benghazi.)
Mike E
The lack of certainty about force conditions never stopped the military from making overreaching and half baked assertions when it comes to ongoing missions…but I guess Maddow was wrong! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Leto
@mardam422: Per Maddow’s reporting, Chadian forces have been partnering with other central Africa nations fighting Islamic extremism. This will hopefully be part of the investigation: how did the travel ban affect our partner nation’s ability to conduct operations to support us. It’s also why I feel that Sealy’s tweets are lacking.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: I got asked about a segment she did. I made a comment that was not wrong, but not right at 11:20 PM. When I got up I decided to poke around a bit and found out that my answer in that comment was wrong. And I decided the whole thing should be front paged. This has nothing to do with Maddow being a woman. I’m certainly not telling her to shut up or go away or do penance. And if you noticed, the subject matter expert I referenced is a woman.
raven
You still want to lay off?
Adam L Silverman
@mardam422: Here’s the article about where Chad’s forces were:
https://af.reuters.com/article/africaTech/idAFKBN1CI0PF-OZATP
The bulk of the fight in Mali, last time I checked (which was a while back) was French forces partnered with Malian forces.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Adam L Silverman:
I think is SC is riffing you for your past defenses of COS John Kelly more than anything. He’s kind of really outed himself as a total asshole wingnut.
Ella in New Mexico
I appreciate the additional clarification and depth from people like Seay and Adam, but I saw the Maddow segment and also read the whole Seay Twitter thread. While I’m know (and she actually stated) that some of Maddow’s ideas and connections are hypothesis, I think Seay’s characterization on Twitter of Maddow’s piece as “massively irresponsible conspiracy-mongering on Niger ” is simply not accurate.
Rachel’s on the right track here, and I’m betting the addition of people who are even closer to the situation will only amplify her case.
schrodingers_cat
@Adam L Silverman: That was not an attack on you. I haven’t even seen Rachel Maddow’s segment. I just want to know what happened. I don’t think you have ever wanted to silence women.
I am pissed at the things Mr. Kelly said. I am no fan of the man but I did not expect him to sink to yesterday’s depths publicly. My statement was a response to BC’s comment. Kelly’s comment implies that he would like a return to an age where women were seen but not heard. So he wants me and BC and all other women to shut up and not worry our heads about things and let manly men like him run the show.
J R in WV
@Betty Cracker:
My suspicion, also. Don’t know for a fact, but just a feeling from the publication. I could send it to you if you’re interested. Fact free, but newsy looking.
I also got an email from a similarly-named group in Chicago [People’s Action], and wrote them asking for information, as opposed to PR flack and a solicitation for money donated. Doubt I will hear back. People’s this, People’s that. Some People are fascists, some people are not. Like a groove they’re stuck in.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m pretty sure SC was talking about Kelly’s words yesterday, not about Maddow. If it’s not about you, it’s not about you.
schrodingers_cat
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Actually no. It was a response to another woman on the blog.
zhena gogolia
@raven:
I don’t wanna lay off. I want to get the House and make those suckers squirm for 16 hours at a time.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m spending the whole day seething about Kelly and I didn’t even watch it. I watched two nanoseconds and had to turn it off.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: Thanks, that’s was what I was commenting on.
Baud
@raven: Even if he weren’t lying, I would make the comparison just to make him sick.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: I only read the transcript. I don’t want to hear T’s enabler in chief.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@schrodingers_cat:
Okie doke.
Baud
@J R in WV: Can I interest you in a newsletter from the People! For Baud!
Betty Cracker
Levity for a serious thread — I can’t stop laughing about this:
Via @BenCisco
Chet Murthy
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Gosh, I figured Shitbird Kelly was an asshole wingnut when he agreed to be Littledick’s DHS Secy and proceeded to do a job worthy of Himmler.
Mnemosyne
@Leto:
I tend to agree that pointing to the map isn’t necessarily proof that Maddow was “irresponsible” or “conspiracy-mongering.” Security changes in one part of a country can reverberate pretty far — possibly even those 700 miles to the opposite border.
I understand why the professor was irritated to have Maddow not consult an area expert, but I think she went too far in pooh-poohing the possibility that our actions towards Chad contributed to the worsening security issues in Niger.
On a completely opposite note, now that most newspapers have gotten rid of their copy editing staff, I’m assuming that we’re going to see a LOT of newspapers fucking up the difference between “Nigeriens” (people of Niger) and “Nigerians” (people of Nigeria).
schrodingers_cat
@Chet Murthy: See his conduct during the First Travel Ban.
Lyrebird
@d58826: No doubt others can word this better, but YES!!! Miami Sun-Sentinel HAS THAT RECEIPT. (Link just goes to RawStory, can click through to video.)
Fwiw I’m not one who’s shocked re:Kelly’s long-known biases. I am surprised at the lengths he went to to smear Rep. Wilson, especially w/o doing better homework.
I am pleased they did not do their homework.
I am pleased that the Sun-Sentinel stood the heck up.
Wish the entire Dem House contingent would back her up by getting sequined hats like hers and all wearing them to the next vote.
gorram
I didn’t even get this far in the Maddow bit, she was basically spewing French military propaganda about Mali at the start. Yes, there are Islamist militants in the country (especially the north) and yes they do have connections to many other groups in neighboring countries (and more broadly) but this developed under French occupation and the brief earlier period of almost civil war in Mali.
What were originally ethnic concerns (primarily by Tuareg people, a subgroup of Imazighen, aka Berber) about police violence, a “right” to exist in the country’s territory, and so on, often justified by stereotypes of violent Islamism among Imazighen and Arab background people. The conflicts and occupation were, in turn, a recruitment drive for those elements within those populations – that various Islamic traditions within those ethnic groups are sources of community resilience shouldn’t be surprising, and that extremists hijacked those under conditions of broader practices being criminalized doubly so.
I listen to the podcast of her show the following day on my way into work and I kept whispering “journalist malpractice!” under my breath because here she is, the premiere US journalist known for contextualizing things failing to do so in a way that buttresses some really bad regional politics (that border on ethnic cleansing in some parts of Mali), some really bad international politics (in terms of self fulfilling colonial French ‘prophecies’), and some really bad local politics (in terms of the US throwing our buckets of anti-Black and anti-Muslim sentiments together whenever Boko Haram comes up, and not addressing the realities on the ground).
gorram
So, I’m not surprised the rest of the segment is garbage… I’m really questioning if I’m going to keep listening to Maddow at this point.
raven
@gorram: What do you mean “the following day”? The IS the following day.
Amir Khalid
@Betty Cracker:
Now that is one … vigorous teddy bear.
Leto
@Mnemosyne: Agreed.
Regarding the opposite note: I readily admit that I don’t know the difference but am trying to get it sorted out.
@Betty Cracker: Lol; thanks for the levity :)
schrodingers_cat
I think Kelly has political ambitions and he is throwing his hat in the ring for the T-base come next election cycle. That would explain his performance yesterday. He will be a more effective version of T. He has already shown the base what he can do to those undesirable immigrants. Not just the so called illegal immigrants.
This was T’s message, carried out by then secretary of DHS during the first travel ban at various ports of entry around the country.
You have a Green Card. Well, fuck you. You lose everything because you traveled at the wrong time.
At least a 1000 green card holders had to sign forms giving up their green cards under duress.
germy
@schrodingers_cat:
cervantes
@Adam L Silverman: It has often been said that military intelligence is an oxymoron. There are plenty of examples of the U.S. military being incredibly ignorant about places it invades. Viz Iraq where they literally believed that the Shiites were in the minority and had no idea of sectarian animosity or the factions. Remember Curveball? Similarly, the military had no understanding of Afghan society and apparently still doesn’t. We don’t have enough people who speak the languages and we don’t understand what we’re doing. Yeah there are intelligence officers. There’s also a Secretary of Energy and an EPA administrator. What does that prove?
Adam L Silverman
@Leto: @Mnemosyne: There wasn’t enough time for the removal of Chadian forces to ripple across Niger and into southern Mali and contribute to this. Leaving the geography aside, you’re dealing with very different groups of extremists. The Chadian forces were involved with countering Boko Haram, which is the most powerful and effective of the transnational, violent Fulani extremist movements. The do not operate in Mali and the Malian branch of the Fulani tribe, known as the Peul neither practice an extremist form of Islam, nor are involved in extremist low intensity warfare. They also live to the east in Mali, not along the Malian/Niger border, and are the traditional water/river wardens. The groups that are operating in Mali are all in the north of the country where the Sahel gives way to the Sahara. There are three distinct groups. 1) al Qaeda in the Maghreb. Essentially Malian Muslims who went and fought in Libya in the rebellion against Qhattafi, became radicalized, came home, and are now fighting in Mali. 2) A group of the Malian Tuareg known as the Tuareg Azawad movement that live in the north, are Muslim like the vast majority of Malians (90%), but are largely fighting for both greater investment from the central government in this very poor and arid region and for greater regional autonomy to direct their own affairs under the Malian concept of decentralization of government. 3) Iyad ag Ghali and his extremist Deobandi Muslim movement. Ag Ghali is a Tuareg, but unlike most of his kin he was radicalized into an extremist, fundamentalist movement of Deobandi Islam after attending a conference in SE Asia back in the 90s.
Finally, the group that has taken responsibility is a never before heard of/from ISIS affiliate. I find it highly unlikely that this attack occurred a couple of days after Chad withdrew its forces because Chad withdrew its forces. If this was a Boko Haram attack then I think we’re back in plausibility territory. This type of ambush is not just something slapped together in two days by a local cell. The extremists had to have been in the area for a while, they were surveilling the 3rd Group and Nigerien Soldiers, and acted when they decided they had the advantage.
hugely
@Adam et al: isnt the correct english adjective “Nigerian”? “Nigerien”, ce n’est-pas francais?
Come to BJ for the knowledge, stay for the pedagogy
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
Dear lord. Know enough graphic artists to confidently say somebody got away with one. They do get bored.
Gin & Tonic
@hugely: You have to be able to distinguish between people from Nigeria and people from Niger. That’s one way of doing it.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Chad was put on the US travel ban list almost a month ago, and it caused a diplomatic problem between us. That’s what I understood Maddow to be referencing as the source of the problem between the US and Chad, not a specific troop movement, but I could be wrong.
Chet Murthy
@hugely: eh ben, il y en a tous les deux, les Nigeriens, et les Nigerians. Parce que les deux pays sont voisins, quoi.
Corner Stone
God I hate Sarah Huckabee Sanders. And I hate this entire WH press corps.
trollhattan
@Lyrebird:
Here’s hoping there’s a way to shove that if not in Kelly’s nose, Possum Queen’s.
trollhattan
@hugely: Nigeritian.
Amir Khalid
@cervantes:
With regard to Iraq and Afghanistan, I think you need to keep in mind that wilful ignorance and ideologically blinkered decision-making by the W Administration also played a role in the mess the US helped to exacerbate in each country.
Gin & Tonic
@germy: Digby is quoting Huckabee-Sanders: “If you want to get into a debate with a four star Marine General I think that’s highly inappropriate”
Um, why would that be highly inappropriate?
Patricia Kayden
@schrodingers_cat:
Saying that women used to be sacred is sexist as hell. I’m surprised the MSM hasn’t pounced on that part of Kelly’s commentary. And given the racism inherent in the current administration, I doubt he was referring to anyone but White women as sacred.
schrodingers_cat
@Gin & Tonic: Because in SHS’s mind we are a military theocracy.
Gin & Tonic
@Patricia Kayden: Well, Rep. Frederica Wilson certainly isn’t sacred, apparently.
trollhattan
@Gin & Tonic:
She sees no fault in our stars.
A Ghost To Most
dailybeast
schrodingers_cat
@Patricia Kayden:When Kelly talks about his son == emotional, when Khans do == exploitative. Is it because the Khans are civilians or is it because they are Muslim or is it because they are Democrats?
Baud
@Gin & Tonic: Because he would lose.
Mnemosyne
@Patricia Kayden:
I’m not. The MSM proved without a doubt in 2016 that they’re misogynist as hell, so they’re not going to see any problem with what Kelly said. The little ladies should just sit down and let the men make all the important decisions.
ETA: And, yes, only white women are “sacred,” and even then only if they stay in their place. We saw with Hillary what happens if a white woman dares to step off her pedestal.
Adam L Silverman
@Amir Khalid: Like Teddy Roosevelt, he walks softly and carries a big stick!
What?
schrodingers_cat
@Gin & Tonic: Well she spoke up against the Great God Emperor of MAGA. Not sacred. Kelly wants minorities and women to shut up.
Adam L Silverman
@cervantes: Actually the military had very good information about Iraq and its sectarian divisions. So did the Intelligence Community. The political leadership ignored all of it. As for Afghanistan, there was a dearth of expertise at the time. But there were Afghan experts who worked for different DOD elements doing their best.
Gin & Tonic
@schrodingers_cat: Yes.
Gin & Tonic
@trollhattan: Ouch.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: What was the life is sacred at conception thing? Is he anti-abortion and birth control too? Does he want to reenact the Spanish Inquisition?
ETA: What did it even have to do with the topic at hand. Is this his fucking campaign speech?
trollhattan
What in the ever-loving fvck?
Don’t know where to even begin. Does bookend interesting with the supreme ayatollah’s recent pronouncement that Trump is only pretending to be stupid.
Adam L Silverman
@hugely: Nigerian is of or from Nigeria. Nigerien is of or from Niger. Trust me, I double checked before I wrote my first post on this last week because I knew someone would either ask or take me to task if I screwed it up.
lgerard
So now we have come full circle, as this whole disgraceful episode stated with trump claiming he was doing something other presidents hadn’t, thus making it about himself.
Sarah Huckabee Saunders makes Baghdad Bob sound like Bertie Wooster
Chris
@schrodingers_cat:
From the Balloon Juice lexicon: “Talibangelical or Talevangelical– An evangelical Christian whose only quarrel with the Islamic Taliban is that they’re wearing the wrong membership badges.”
A Ghost To Most
@trollhattan: Putin and his puppet can both go fuck themselves.
Aardvark Cheeselog
> full disclosure
I think that’s supposed to be used as a denial of being unduly influenced, not a pointer to evidence that you know what you’re talking about and are not just blowing smoke.
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
He’s a male Roman Catholic. Those guys don’t bother their beautiful minds about birth control, they only criticize it when it’s brought to their attention. Lots and lots of “traditional” Catholic men who look the other way when their wife uses contraception but criticize others for using it.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman:
Here?! Such a kidder, you are.
Adam L Silverman
@A Ghost To Most: I didn’t realize Jaffa cakes were part of the standard hurricane relief package.
Ruckus
@Gin & Tonic:
Authoritarianism? One never questions highly places military officers. Conservatism 101.
trollhattan
@Adam L Silverman:
Much in the same way they swept aside the nuclear inspectors.
“Your reality does not meet my current needs.”
Yutsano
@trollhattan: Wasn’t Vlad some kind of America expert at the KGB? Wow…
Mnemosyne
@Aardvark Cheeselog:
Meh. I’ve seen it used both ways. I think it saves time since if you don’t say it, someone inevitably comments, “What makes you such an expert?”
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@schrodingers_cat:
Well, he was a flag officer according to Adam, and that apparently does require some kind of political skill to achieve, so maybe? I just know that at least Bannon has never liked Kelly and may be a roadblock to his potential ambitions.
Leto
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks for that Adam.
trollhattan
@A Ghost To Most:
How is it we continue to roll over for these bastards. It’s right in our faces and we’re still…tolerating? Ignoring? Waving it off? Fixating on the national anthem?
A Ghost To Most
@Adam L Silverman: Do you think this is about Israel,or just another chance to wield their power over the powerless?
eta: this sounded severe. Your joke was good.
Adam L Silverman
@Aardvark Cheeselog: I’m unduly influenced because I do know what I’m talking about. Those damn facts won’t leave me alone!
Mnemosyne
@trollhattan:
Sounds like fairly standard Russian shade being thrown. We’ve been sniping at each other like that since at least 1917. It’s what the whole Kitchen Debate thing was about.
Plus Vlad knows that Trump is abnormally dependent on flattery and thinks he needs a little shoring up lest he melt down too quickly.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: I know, crazy talk. I don’t know what I was thinking.
Adam L Silverman
@trollhattan: Yep.
Aleta
@A Ghost To Most: That’s horrible. Republicans love to mouth off about reducing federal government control right up until locals oppose larger Republican interests.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@trollhattan:
First, go fuck yourself Vlad.
Second, weren’t you in the KGB? Is this all the better you understand how American civil society works? Look, I know as well as you do, that Russia doesn’t have a strong democratic tradition, and you’re used to telling people how high to jump and them asking how high in response, but really? Do you not understand how any other type of political besides ones on the authoritarian side of the spectrum?
Adam L Silverman
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: General officers/flag officers are political creatures. They have to be to make it to and past brigadier general/rear admiral lower half (officer rank 7/O7). And they have their own politics that is specific to the general officer/flag officer ranks. That does not necessarily mean they’re politicians or are able to successfully transition to being politicians or effective operating in the world of politicians/national politics.
Leto
@Adam L Silverman: I was going to say, during my CST (Combat Skills Training) for my Iraq deployment, the Army had former Iraqi’s that roleplayed with us as villagers/tribal leaders/etc… also we had multi-day briefings on the various religious/cultural differences in country. I mean, was it as exhaustive as your knowledge? No, but we were a heck of a lot more prepared than without it. Def made a difference.
rikyrah
The Rachel Maddow Show 10/19/17
New Veterans Affairs proposal raises privatization concerns
Rachel Maddow reports on a new proposal by the V.A. that has some veterans advocates concerned that conservatives are taking advantage of the Trump administration to enact the privatizing of veterans’ health care they have long sought.
Ruckus
@A Ghost To Most:
Why would you think they’d ever do that?
Most people would probably see this a bullshit nothing burger because one thing had nothing to do with the other. But it’s a foot in the door, a bit of control, exercise it when it doesn’t matter, then use that as a proof that it’s OK when they want/think they need it.
Authoritarianism/conservatism 101
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
WP won’t let me edit so:
First, go fuck yourself Vlad.
Second, weren’t you in the KGB? Is this all the better you understand how American civil society works? Look, I know as well as you do, that Russia doesn’t have a strong democratic tradition, and you’re used to telling people to jump and them asking how high in response, but really? Do you not understand how any other type of political system besides ones on the authoritarian side of the spectrum work?
Adam L Silverman
@Leto: Is it still possible that the withdrawal of Chadian forces contributed to this? Sure. I just don’t think it’s plausible. And certainly not based on what Maddow delineated last night. Her analysis of Chad withdrawing its forces as a result of the travel ban is solid. No issues or arguments there. The connections from that to the attack on the 3rd Group and Nigerien Soldiers is, I think, a stretch.
We now know from reporting I saw this morning that AFRICOM has been telling anyone and everyone that would listen for months that they have about 30% of the intelligence capacity they need. This lack of resourcing for AFRICOM is not exactly a state secret as I wrote about last week. The reporting I caught this morning on MSNBC indicates their ISR is really limited to non-existent, especially for this operational environment within the theater. So to circle back to the post, what we really need to get a handle on is the intelligence failure and the resourcing for support of these troops failure.
Chris
@Chet Murthy:
Effectivement, le Larousse confirme. On en apprend tous les jours.
Fair Economist
Chad has peacekeepers in Mali as well so their support is not just about the patrols next to their border.
d58826
@trollhattan: U mean Der Fuhrer and Kelliann didn’t invent ‘alternate facts’? Don’t tell Der Fuhrer as that will take any his only achievement as POTUS
rikyrah
The Rachel Maddow Show 10/19/17
FEMA grants dubious contracts in wake of hurricane disasters
Matthew Philips, politics and policy editor for Bloomberg Businessweek, talks with Rachel Maddow about reporting his team has been doing into the companies being given FEMA contracts to help in the recovery from this season’s hurricanes.
Chris
@schrodingers_cat:
Women should be “sacred” the way gods are. Silent as the grave and allowing raging right-wing assholes to translate and interpret their will for the masses.
Fair Economist
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Yes, Vlad knows American society. Specifically, he knows white conservatives are traitors, all the way back to the civil war and continuing through the present day.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Okay, so it sounds like what you’re saying is that the travel ban probably affected the security situation overall for the worse, but it’s unlikely that it directly affected this specific operation. Is that a fair interpretation?
Chris
@Adam L Silverman:
I remain quite impressed that so many of the same people who, in 1991, said “don’t go to Baghdad. That’s a terrible idea. Because [insert long list of the same things opponents of the Iraq War tried to point out twelve years later]” came back in twelve years and said “yeah, I changed my mind. It’s gonna be awesome.”
Adam L Silverman
@A Ghost To Most: I clicked over and then through to the local coverage. This appears to be something put in place by the local government in Dickinson. So it looks like some pro-Israel schmo in city/county government who did this. Probably one of the local Christian Zionists concerned that Billy Bob of Billy Bob’s Tire and Lube might not buy surplus Israeli military ammo for hunting season this year or Sue Anne of Sue Anne’s BBQ and Roadhouse isn’t going to buy Israeli pork butts for her pulled pork sandwiches.
rikyrah
The Rachel Maddow Show 10/19/17
CIA forced to walk back director’s statement on Russian meddling
Rachel Maddow shares video of CIA director Mike Pompeo stating falsely that the U.S. intelligence community’s assessment is that Russia’s meddling did not affect the outcome of the election. The CIA would later walk that statement back.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Adam L Silverman:
That makes sense. However, I do think Kelly has designs on power. If he could successfully make that transition (he’s an old, white, traditionalist male in uniform so he’s got a lot going for him already) then he could be a more effective Trump.
And I do think Kelly is onboard with Trump’s agenda of white supremacist authoritarianism, given his actions at DHS, and just within the last few days as well. He didn’t even mention the pain that the one serviceman’s widow must have felt when Trump said her husband “knew what he signed up for”. The soldier and his widow happened to be African American. Coincidence? I think not.
d58826
@Adam L Silverman:
One more symptom of a military spread to thin and being asked to do more with less. In civilian life it just means working a 12-14 hour day. In the military it can be a matter of life and death.
But we will cut 1.5 trillion dollars in taxes over the next 10 years. The Kochs/Addelson etc need a new wing on the stable for their polo ponies.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
बिल्ली देवी
Adam L Silverman
@Leto: I’ve done some of those briefings. Though a lot of them were bad. My higher HQ did a review of a lot of that stuff and we found that the standardized briefings on Iraq, Afghanistan, Islam, etc hadn’t been updated since 2003 and were poorly put together. I don’t think we ever got traction to fix it before the sequester defunded us.
Calouste
@raven: As everything is always projection with these folks, we can take that as a confirmation that they knew this was an extremely high risk mission, but send these guys anyway.
Gravenstone
@d58826:
Democrats wouldn’t do such a thing. But you can put money on Republicans loudly accusing them of doing exactly that.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: More or less. Withdrawal of a key, local partner is never going to be a good thing.
rikyrah
Larry O from last night about Kelly
Lawrence: ‘Stunned’ by John Kelly’s attack on Rep. Wilson
Baud
I think the overarching lesson here is, Don’t fuck with Chad.
Yutsano
@rikyrah: This is SSDD with Republicans and FEMA. They always use politically connected contractors who aren’t necessarily the best or who even do the work. Although that’s a bit endemic of FEMA in general.
@Baud: Watch your Devanagari mister!
Chris
@Mnemosyne:
Hey!
#NOTALLMALEROMANCATHOLICS!!!!!!!!!!!
… nah, kidding. That stereotype has so much truth to it that I really can’t complain. (And Church doctrine itself on the topic remains sexist as hell. We’ll have gay priests long before we have women ones).
Adam L Silverman
@Chris: Those people are special. They also have an inability to differentiate between NAZIs and Iraqi tribal leaders, which perhaps explains the alt-right meshugas… And they have an exceedingly warped understanding of British strategy in the 1930s, Chamberlain’s actions at Munich, and the actual import and ramifications of the Munich agreement. But why quibble over details?
Davebo
Professor Seay did an outstanding job totally debunking a claim that no one made, at least not Maddow. In fairness to her, she does admit she doesn’t know what happened, but it wasn’t what Maddow didn’t say happened.
geg6
@Adam L Silverman:
Yeah, this. In fact, it often seems that they are spectacularly unsuccessful at playing civilian politics. Probably because no one has to bow and scrape to them out here in the real world.
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
The military is rather rigidly structured, from top to bottom, as you well know. Yes the job politics may be different at different levels, all job politics are. That we recognize them and learn to work within them or leave is normal. But military politics and public politics are wildly different, especially in this country. In the military it’s almost suicide to question a higher ranking officer, unless he/she is making a monumental ass out of themselves and hurting the overall goal at the same time, monumental asses being not all that uncommon, especially among the lower officer ranks. Most of those get weeded out as the number of stars increase or they at least learn how to negotiate working hours more in command of their faculties. But outside of my being in the military I’d have no problem questioning a stared officer. Sure he/she may have more info on a military issue than I do but I should have no fear of questioning them about it. In theory they have no power over me.
ETA Not all of them understand that level of no power. They are used to if not official still very much unfettered obedience.
d58826
The whole d*** family seems to think the WH and the government is their personal play toy.
d58826
@Chris:
I rather suspect that we are already at the gay part.
Gin & Tonic
@Chris:
I think you’re missing an “openly.” Otherwise your use of the future tense is comical.
Chris
@trollhattan:
Yeah, the fact that it’s this blatant is really impressive. Like the Russian Ambassador trolling “Comey? He was fired? You’re kidding?” on camera. At this point, they’re just trolling for the fun of it, and because they know 45% of the American public is just that invested in believing in Trump that they won’t notice.
d58826
@geg6: I remember a story from my college poli-sci class. Some one supposed said that Ike was going to be very frustrated as POTUS because as a 5 star people jumped at every utterance. As POTUS they just yawn and ignore him.
Gravenstone
@Adam L Silverman: I think s_c is lashing out at Kelly’s comments re. “women on a pedestal” sort of nonsensical worldview, not at you personally.
Mnemosyne
@d58826:
Who the hell is “Lara” Trump? Is that one of the in-laws?
Leto
@Adam L Silverman: Regarding AFRICOM and the need for more ISR, it reminds me of a story I read (about 2 years ago?) regarding how the USAF fielded a new ISR aircraft there, but essentially skimped on the training for the incoming aircrews because WE NEED TO HAVE RESULTS NOW! It was very similar to another aircraft already in inventory, but the new additions resulted in different flight characteristics. Resulted in some class 1 mishaps. I’ll have to dig it up and shoot it your way later.
You talked about this before, that our aviators have been non-stop since the Gulf War, but this also needs to be put into the larger context of our military has been continually at war since the Gulf War and we’re just continuing to expand. We’re stretched too thin and we’re reaching a breaking point (honestly I believe it’s closer than what anyone is willing to admit). While I understand that people see the mil budget and just gasp (rightly so), at the tactical level it doesn’t actually translate into either more bodies or better capabilities. I honestly wish that we could have an honest assessment of our strategic posturing, along with what our foreign goals need to/should be. It won’t happen with the current admin/congress, but it needs to happen. Or else we need to bring the damned draft back and make everyone experience, first hand, wtf we’re going through. Maybe that will bring back some sanity.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Adam L Silverman:
Oh boy don’t get me started. I doubt such people even know that Chamberlain was a conservative himself. Nobody wanted another war, especially the voting publics of France and Britain in the 30s, so that’s why appeasement was a thing. Also,too, both nations had largely disarmed and needed time to rearm as Germany became a greater threat. And didn’t some guilt over how Germany had been treated by the Versailles Treaty also factor into it too?
Lyrebird
@trollhattan: Hear, hear!
tobie
@J R in WV: I wouldn’t give them one dime. Krystall Ball has been unhinged since the primaries. She was Bernista who hated Hillary and then blamed Hillary and the establishment for the loss and then went on to support Tim Ryan to replace Nancy Pelosi as Dem caucus leader.
d58826
@Mnemosyne: daughter in law. just had a baby. not sure which of the interchangeable mini trumps she is married to
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Fair Economist:
It just sounded to me like he didn’t have the foggiest clue how the First Amendment works.
Leto
@Adam L Silverman: SEQUESTERED! *take a shot* Ahhh, I miss those jokes ;)
d58826
@Leto:
If we could only wring 50% of the waste/fraud out of the budget and move it over to the operation side imagine how much good that will do. And MAYBE think a bit more before going down another f35 rathole.
Chris
@Adam L Silverman:
The best explanation I can come up with is that the Gulf War made them euphoric and excessively optimistic about U.S. military force in a sort of reverse-Vietnam-Syndrome. Then you had eight years of Clinton, which pissed them off as it did everybody in that party, and which they spent watching his various run-ins with Saddam and telling themselves “shit, I could do better than that!” And then they ended up back in power and tried to do exactly that.
But I get your point, they’re not the best and brightest, or the best-informed and brightest.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
In that case, I wish Dr. Seay had been a little more measured in her initial Tweet, because it’s now getting transmitted as the travel ban had no affect whatsoever on security in Niger and not there’s no evidence the travel ban affected this specific operation.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@lgerard: For some reason, Sarah Huckabee-Sanders really gets under my skin. She’s like a sullen teenager.
Honus
@J R in WV: Krystal’s dad is from WV so maybe you helped him out once.
germy
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): When she first appeared as spokesperson she looked like a regular person. I remember predicting they’d “gussie” her up and sure enough nowadays when I see her she looks like they sicced Kellyanne’s makeup artist on her.
Immanentize
Thanks, Adam, for this post. I am now smarter +-. Ok, more knowledgeable than before.
As for Gen. Kelly and his speech and actions both towards La David’s family, La David’s himself, his obliqie reference to the Khans, Congresswoman Wilson and using his dead son as the prop to do it, I think I now understand his four sacreds:
Women
Gold Star Families
Life
Religion.
If you just put the word, “WHITE” in front of each, bingo! Kelly himself appears.
Calouste
@d58826: So a family friend of the bereaved who listens along with a phone call that’s on speaker phone in the limo on the way to meeting Sgt Johnson’s coffin, that’s terrible according to KKKelly. Those calls should be private. A family member of the shitgibbon, with no official function in government, going public claiming that she read a transcript of that same call is apparently a-ok.
Gravenstone
@trollhattan: Pootey-poot is just stirring more shit. Makes Trump think he still has Vlad’s support, and adds another wedge between the pro- and anti-Trump populace.
Chris
@d58826:
@Gin & Tonic:
Ha! Sustained.
Actually, I believe there didn’t used to be a rule against gay priests. But in the context of the modern culture wars, of course one had to be invented.
zhena gogolia
@Mnemosyne:
Wife of Uday or Qusay
gbbalto
@d58826: Well, as I recall, Ike had to deal with prickly British generals as well as Churchill and DeGaulle, so he was used to having to persuade and compromise. GEN MacArthur, however, would have had a very rough time as Prez.
Adam L Silverman
@Leto: No argument at all. If we’re facing an existential threat from extremist, reactionary Islam and from Iran and from the DPRK then we need to be mobilized as a society for war. The reason I know these threats and challenges aren’t existential is that not only are we not mobilized as a society for war, no elected or appointed official will even discuss the possibility of doing so. No discussion of a declaration of war in Congress. No discussion of a draft. Etc.
Adam L Silverman
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2013/09/neville_chamberlain_was_right_to_cede_czechoslovakia_to_adolf_hitler_seventy.html
And
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/07/20/in-defense-of-neville-chamberlain-hindsights-most-battered-punching-bag/
schrodingers_cat
@Chris: I am from India, where men have perfected the art of deifying women and putting them on a pedestal while at the same time treating them IRL like dirt. All in the name of our great civilization or some such pablum.
Immanentize
@Chris:.
Celibacy in the priesthood took care of a bunch of this issue historically. That added to Catholic dualism (condemn the sin, not the sinner). A celibate priest who struggled but defeated lust or desire regardless of the object was considered virtuous. It is when desire or lust is not conquered that the judgments fly.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@trollhattan:
So a $10 donation is not valid? The dude on the ten spot wasn’t technically a president, don’t remember his name*, but pretty sure about that.
*I’m sure Mnemosyne can help me with that.
schrodingers_cat
@germy: She still doesn’t look all that great, neither for that matter does Kelly Anne. General Central Casting CoS may be the best looking of that sorry bunch.
Gin & Tonic
@Immanentize: And yet, somehow, the Eastern Rite Catholics manage just fine with married priests. I number a few among my friends and acquaintances, and they are largely fairly normal and well-adjusted people.
gbbalto
@gbbalto: I mean, recall from reading – wasn’t around then!
SiubhanDuinne
@germy:
I think that guy who was Communications Director for about a week* had a lot to do with encouraging SHS to lay on the makeup with a spatula.
* Totally blanking on his name. The one who gave the “fuck”-studded interview to the New Yorker writer.
Gravenstone
@SiubhanDuinne: Mooch
Janice Maradeo
i watched her entire segment ,she gave us the US connection to Chad ,how/ why /where ..she never once said she knew the ban was the reason ,just could it be partially to blame ?She clearly said she did not know,and it would require further investigation.I think she was more trying to convey the fact that …this is why you do not put people with little to no knowledge in positions of power.OR they could make costly mistakes.Putting up a heading that she was wrong ??? Was clearly wrong on your part..just my opinion..
Chris
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
The part of 1930s politics that’s gotten completely left out of all the “appeasement” narratives and that really pisses me off: one of the reasons the powers-that-be in the West were so slow to react to the fascist threat was that for a long time they thought fascism might make a valuable ally or at least buffer against communism, with “communism” defined basically as “anything left wing.” (The original Italian fascists made their bones as union-busting enforcers in the northern regions, and the Nazis did similar things in their rise to power as well). It took longer than it should have to respond to the fascist threat in part because quite a few people found them convenient, for reasons that should be very familiar to the people who like to scream “appeaser!” at everybody.
Arguably this was a bigger problem in France. The 1936 election was an Obama-2008-esque moment in which a left-wing coalition led by a Jewish prime minister came to power, and the French right wing (including much of the military brass) just completely lost its shit. To the point that their traditional anti-German worldview actually took a back seat to their antisemitism, anti-leftism, and paranoid fantasies of Bolshevik subversion, exactly at the moment when anyone with half a brain could see that Nazi Germany, not the Scary Reds, was about to be the biggest problem. It made for very fertile soil in which to plant Vichy a couple years later. Obviously, things didn’t get that far in Britain. But they had their sympathizers there too, and I’d be surprised if that hadn’t also contributed to the slow response.
d58826
@SiubhanDuinne: u mean the mooch – scaramochie
germy
@SiubhanDuinne: They like their women painted like clowns.
I think it fits in with their overall anti-human instincts. The paint covers their revulsion. I remember the article about Mercer; he said he couldn’t stand to be around people.
trollhattan
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Except for that one year we put Churchill on it (2x the trolling).
Kay
@Mnemosyne:
She’s a spouse. She has a Trump Show on the internet. She’s the “secret weapon” for the re-elect. It’s not called Trump Show but that’s what it is.
There’s this whole Trump-fan world operating outside the real world :)
Chris
@Calouste:
Fuck him. It’s not his family. He doesn’t get to decide who does and doesn’t listen in.
BC in Illinois
@Immanentize:
On the tangential topic of General Kelly, Kazir Kahn, and Gold Star Families — an area where General Kelly has shown that he will do or say whatever his Leader tells him to do — let me pass along an item of interest to the St. Louis residents (you know who you are):
Kazir Kahn will be at the St Louis County Library on November 29 to speak about his new book, An American Family. Tickets and autographed books available at the link. He will be interviewed by Aisha Sultan of the Post Dispatch.
See you there.
https://www.slcl.org/content/ticketed-author-event-khizr-khan-american-family
Repatriated
@d58826: The one who did not, in the end, do the fandango.
NotMax
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
It’s the air of unwarranted smugness punctuated with a spritz of condescension.
chopper
@lgerard:
never mind that her boss stood up in front of the wall in langley honoring CIA agents who died and bragged about his fucking crowd at the inauguration.
SiubhanDuinne
@d58826:
Yup. Thought of his name the second the edit window closed.
This is what I was remembering (sorry, having trouble embedding links today): https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/anthony-scaramucci-sarah-huckabee-sanders-hair-makeup_us_5975f373e4b0e79ec19a9ef6
Immanentize
@Gin & Tonic: my favorite story about married priests is that during the bad communist days, the RC church granted the sacrament of religious orders to married men — that is, made them priests — to hide from the godless commies of the Eastern Bloc. Then Cardinal Woytyla, later Pope John Paul Ii, actually performed many of these investitures in Poland and Czechoslovakia, etc. Of course, after the Soviet Union collapsed, Ratzinger had all the married priests report to Rome for an inspection of their adherence to Creed.
PS. After the first Pope John Paul died such a sudden and suspicious death, I really thought that Woytyla should have followed John Paul and been named George Ringo I.
Kay
Tim Ryan is awful. The Bernista’s would do well to back away from him right now. The fact that he “jumped from relative obscurity” should tell you something because Ohio Democrats are desperate for leaders and they would have pulled him up by now if he was worth anything.
Mike J
@d58826: The one who was asking about “how many Jews were in Europe before HItler?” this morning on twitter?
Mnemosyne
@zhena gogolia:
So we’re hearing from her why, exactly?
Kay
@Mnemosyne:
She runs the grift operation – like a gift shop of Trump merchandise, but with an infomercial.
hilts
Lindsey Graham has his head stuck so far up Trump’s ass, it’s a wonder he can still breathe
Brachiator
@Chris:
Double fuck him. I have not watched or listened to his complete “performance.” I don’t see that he needed to interpret or comment on the issue. Trump, if he were a real human being, should simply have apologized for any clumsiness in his words. Instead, he sent out his lackey to play attack dog.
Fleeting Expletive
@Immanentize: Damn, way to put the fucking hammer on the nail.
Kay
@Mnemosyne:
That whole family is pathological, I swear. She didn’t read a transcript and she didn’t know if there WAS a transcript but she lies about it anyway! They VOLUNTEER lies that are not at all necessary!
MomSense
@zhena gogolia:
I was stuck in the pickup andropov after school traffic listening to it on my radio yesterday. Because there were kids around and my windows were open, I decided not to say out loud what I was thinking. I hope Wilson sues him for slander.
Baud
@Kay: You take what you can get.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: AFAIK Hindu mythology does not have a cat goddess. There is a goddess who rides a tiger (Durga), she is pretty badass.
MomSense
@Immanentize:
Exactly.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: You can fill the need!
Patricia Kayden
@Lyrebird: But Kelly isn’t going to do the right thing and apologize for his speech of yore. He’ll just double down and continue to lie.
Kay
@Baud:
Okay, but don’t say I didn’t warn you.
They wouldn’t run the ancient Ted Strickland over and over again if they had a good younger prospect. They’ll regret promoting him.
germy
@Kay:
I remember the documentary “Exit Through The Gift Shop”.
When it comes to this administration, I hope the exit is nearby.
trollhattan
@Patricia Kayden:
If a four-star doubles down does he become eight-star?
ruemara
Thank you, Adam. It’s good to have your expertise on this. Maddow is smart and all, but I’m surprised she didn’t triple check before she went with this.
germy
It’s Friday.
Any predictions for the weekly News Dump? What fresh hell?
Patricia Kayden
@trollhattan: LOL. Good question. In his case, it just makes him a fool. I’m so glad that he’s revealed exactly who he is so people on our side can stop dreaming that he will save us from Trump.
Chris
@Brachiator:
I speed-read through a transcript. It’s exactly as awful as it sounds.
Patricia Kayden
@Immanentize: That’s perfectly said. We all know dang well that he wasn’t including those of us of color in his “sacred” nonsense. His boss has had no problems denigrating Blacks and Browns long before he got into the White House.
MCA1
@Adam L Silverman: That’s definitely the correct usage. It is strange, though, that we (meaning whoever started using an English language adjectival for Niger, I would guess some newspaper writer) went with “ien” instead of just “an” as in “Nigeran.” “Ien” is quite French sounding. Makes some sense given the colonial history, I know. But I don’t think we’d convert to “Canadien” to refer to people from Toronto if there were some other country named Canadia whose residents were already known as the Canadians. We’d call them Canadan.
Also, too, for countries whose Anglicized name ends in a consonant, we often go with “ese” or “ish.” See, e.g., Japan, Sweden, Spain, Portugal, etc. So maybe Nigerese would have been a better, and altogether less confusing, way to go.
schrodingers_cat
@Patricia Kayden: Or denigrating women who speak up, stalking HRC in that debate when the P grabbing tape came out.
Gin & Tonic
Shit, even Bill Kristol is calling out SHS on the “don’t question generals” thing.
rikyrah
Frederick Douglass @gettinnoticedmo
Let me get this straight:
Brown Gold Star Fam (Attacked by Trump)
Black Gold Star Fam (Attacked by Trump)
White Gold Star Fam (Gets 25k)
10:21 PM – 19 Oct 2017
eric
Adam, what is your response the White House Chief of Staff? thanks
MomSense
@Patricia Kayden:
I have thought he was horrible this whole time and I was hoping he would also tackle trump before he can get his short fingers on the nuclear football.
glory b
@J R in WV: I’m probably late here, but Krystal Ball used to appear regularly on msnbc, but I haven’t seen her for a while.
The last time I heard her, she was on the short-lived Nomiki Konst radio show on Sirius Progressive. Both of them were doing the Bernie dead-ender “no identity politics!” “economic anxiety!” “Bernie woulda won!” two step
Baud
@rikyrah: LOL at the handle.
Truth at the content.
ETA: Although it should be *offered* 25K.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
They won’t back off, because they’re desperate for white men to lead us again. Any dead-ender Sandernistas who aren’t warmed-over Ron Paulites are subconsciously racist liberals who lost their damn minds when Obama won the presidency. Something in their heads broke when a Black man became their leader, and they haven’t recovered since.
schrodingers_cat
I have been jumped upon by many, time and again for pointing out that Kelly is no savior neither are the other generals. Kelly wants to be goddamned General Zia of US of Evangelistan. Where women are quiet as are other minorities.
Masha Gessen seems to agree, from the New Yorker:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/john-kelly-and-the-language-of-the-military-coup
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Apparently the check was sent, after PGrabber was named and shamed in WashPost.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
There was probably an all-family meeting or phone call where they strategized the best way to protect Daddy. I’m sure it’s an all-court press. The entire family revolves around what Daddy wants and needs.
StringOnAStick
@Chris: Another reason why France and Britain were slow to react to the rising fascist threat from Germany was just how horrible WWI had been; no one had the stomach for another war. They had lost so many males in the 18-35 age group that social demographics were deeply distorted.
Last year I read a couple of books about who financed Hitler, and the fear of communism after the 1917 Russian revolution was very high in the minds of the German oligarchs. The high rates of unemployment in the late ’20’s and early 30’s resulted in a very volatile political environment. At one point a major German industrialist (can’t remember which one) was kidnapped by German communists; he was eventually freed though had been sure he was going to be executed. This same industrialist became one of the most aggressive about raising money for Hitler from fellow industrialists. By the time some of the industrialists realized they’d lost control of the tiger they’d been feeding, it was far too late, though plenty of industrialists saw all the money to be made in wartime and jumped right on that bandwagon. As always, the monied interests want stability though sometimes they are pretty piss poor judges of how to get or maintain that stability.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Mnemosyne: That’s where the money is.
Patricia Kayden
@schrodingers_cat: Don’t you wish we had a media which asked Kelly if Secretary Clinton was sacred when Trump called her “nasty”? Or if Rosie O’Donnell was sacred when Trump called her a “fat pig”? I could go on and on since Trump has spent a lifetime denigrating women.
Mnemosyne
@StringOnAStick:
Q.
F.
Motherfucking.
T.
Mnemosyne
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
I think it’s more than that. One of Trump’s sisters seems to have told Fred Trump to piss off and became a federal judge. None of Donald’s kids have dared to do the same, and I think it’s the family dynamic in addition to the money. It’s more than just the fear of being cut off financially, IMO.
Brachiator
@Chris:
I’m not surprised. But again, the whole episode was nothing but an attempted diversion from Trump’s insensitivity and inability to admit error.
This administration’s main purpose is not to serve the American people, but to massage the ego of a petulant child.
@schrodingers_cat:
Love that description! Right on target.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
I don’t always dig her, but that’s a great piece. Also deeply depressing.
He actually said he would only take questions from journalists who knew someone in uniform?
zhena gogolia
@MomSense:
It took me a while to figure out what the “pickup andropov” was. I thought you were referencing the late Gen Sec of the USSR.
Patricia Kayden
@rikyrah: So it’s normal now for the President to pick and choose which Gold Star families get a personal check from him? Even if that family was Black or Brown, I’d still find it weird to say the least that a sitting President picks random families for whom to write checks.
rikyrah
I would like to know..
what are the stats, say, over the past 20 years, of ALL THE MEMBERS OF AN ELITE SQUAD BEING KILLED.
Not part of the squad..
ALL OF THE SQUAD.
WHY do I think we can probably count it on less than two hands…over 20 years.
Just a guess.
Wish someone would ask this White House.
rikyrah
@Kay:
He’s always talking smack about Nancy Smash.
I”ll stick with Nancy Smash, thank you.
JPL
OT Since Betty Price thinks we might consider quarantine for those with HIV, I want to share a story. Recently I was at an event with her, and I was polite. I didn’t even ask about Tom. No more!
https://www.statnews.com/2017/10/20/georgia-lawmaker-hiv-quarantine/
What the heck is happening to us.
rikyrah
@Kay:
BuzzFeed NewsVerified account @BuzzFeedNews
A rumor that pro-Bernie Sanders Democrats want to remove three of the DNC’s top black women has set off fury
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: Thanks.
Baud
@rikyrah: Wouldn’t surprise me but I hate being manipulated by rumors.
Mnemosyne
@rikyrah:
And if I point that the Sanders dead-enders always seem to pick on people of color and women, I get told I’m being a purity pony. ?
catclub
@rikyrah:
A slight correction: Male relative, not the widow, gets the $25k from Trump, after whining.
rikyrah
Freedom Caucus will back Senate budget — in exchange for tax promise
By SARAH FERRIS and RACHAEL BADE
10/20/2017 04:52 PM EDT
The House Freedom Caucus is willing to give their much-needed votes in support of the Senate GOP’s budget — but first Speaker Paul Ryan must commit to a floor vote on tax reform far sooner than currently planned.
The House conservatives decided on the stance on a conference call Friday, according to GOP sources.
The budget could see a floor vote as soon as next week. In exchange for their votes, the Freedom Caucus wants a promise that GOP tax-writers will hold their first committee markup the following week, with a House floor vote on the tax bill in the second week of November.
Leadership sources say that timetable would be virtually impossible. Ryan said this week that the House would pass the tax bill by “early November.” It is unclear if the Freedom Caucus is willing to block the budget if it doesn’t get the schedule it wants on taxes.
The House and Senate need to clear identical budgets before Republicans can pass a tax bill under fast-track procedures that can evade Democratic filibusters.
The Senate passed a budget late Thursday that veers substantially from the House — adding $1.5 trillion to the deficit to pay for tax cuts with no plans for spending cuts included in the House proposal.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/20/freedom-caucus-senate-budget-tax-reform-244002
trollhattan
@MomSense: @zhena gogolia:
Sign of a dedicated Click & Clack listener and yeah, certainly sourced from the very dead and briefly Soviet premiere.
catclub
@Chris: My understanding was that Trump had minders – Kelly? – listening in on that end.
But no outrage about that.
ThresherK
@Patricia Kayden: I still want to know if any checks ever get there. It’s not Trump’s own money, but that instinct he has of saying “the check is in the mail” has turned out to run pretty deep.
Chris
@StringOnAStick:
Oh, no doubt. But that’s the thing, that whole part of the narrative, people remember. It goes under the general “Hitler happened because the West was afraid of war” narrative. But the “Hitler happened because the West thought he’d be their little bodyguard and hired thug” narrative, that one never gets told anymore. Which annoys me because it’s much more relevant to us these days.
Lymie
Rachel made an argument which she supported with fact, an hypothesis. This Texas professor saying she is “disappointed ” is that kinda of crappy silencing language used against women. And Alain joins in. Why not just say you disagree and here’s why?
MomSense
@zhena gogolia:
IIRC he was the one right after Brows Brezhnev.@trollhattan: The credits at the end of the show were so clever.
amygdala
@JPL: Oh, FFS. She sounds upset that folks with HIV are living longer thanks to antiretroviral, unaware, it seems, that patients with suppressed viral loads are less infectious. And she’s supposedly a physician. It was bad enough 35 years ago when we didn’t know anything about AIDS, but completely, utterly unacceptable now.
Brachiator
@JPL:
It’s as though these people were in hibernation for 20 years and have emerged from their caves with their ignorance intact, and trying to resurrect long discarded myths and fallacies as though they were true and required public action.
Lymie
@Lymie: obviously meant Adam, my bad.
Ladyraxterinok
Balloon-juice: the place for insight and information. And entertainment and snark!
Really appreciate this post and comments since I was able to watch Maddow’s show.
Patricia Kayden
@rikyrah: Deficits don’t matter as long as: (1) Republicans are in control of the federal government; (2) tax cuts are passed for the rich; and (3) the military is funded so that we can engage in clandestine wars in countries like Niger.
Deficits only matter when Democrats are in power.
Adam L Silverman
@eric: I believe every White House should have one. Also red brick houses, two story ramblers, Cape style homes, colonial style, ranch, and split levels.
More seriously, Chiefs of Staff should be seen and not heard from. And yesterday was a mess and nothing good will come from it.
Adam L Silverman
@Lymie: The professor I referenced is a woman. I’m not trying to silence anyone. And neither is that professor.
sharl
The Tuareg aspect is intriguing, and Adam noted some of it in his comment #55:
Not long after the ouster of Muammar Gaddafi from Mali’s northern neighbor Libya – with generous help to the effort from U.S. air support – I remember reading accounts of the fear of the Malian and Nigerien governments of now-unemployed former Gaddafi Tuareg mercenaries coming home to their impoverished countries:
The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again (and repeatedly)! I had severe doubts about that Libyan intervention at the time – as did a couple of the front-pagers here – and what has happened subsequently has only confirmed my regrets. At first I thought I would like various op-ed page supporters and their ilk to justify themselves (e.g., Nick Kristof), but then thought ‘nah, they’ll just bs their way out of their war cheerleading, just like the Iraq neocons did (and still do).’ So I guess I should just appreciate the silence on the topic from Kristof et al.
MoxieM
@Adam L Silverman: I would have thought it was Nigèrien, fem. Nigèrienne, with a pronunciation like Père, frère, etc.. (Ducks and runs away to Pedantic Camp.)
Lymie
@Adam L Silverman: Please read for content. I said your language was unnecessary and the professor’s was the same dismissive language commonly used against women. Heck the huffpo is calling Rachel “raving “. Do you really think that women never echo the lazy misogyny of the culture?
debbie
@schrodingers_cat:
He’s probably still waiting for someone to get him a stamp so he can mail it.
Anne Laurie
Late to the party, but thanks for this, Adam!
I’d seen Laura Seay’s tweets, but you have the knowledge to give them context. Back in the dawn times (circa St. Ronnie) spent many years working in a university library with a Sahelian collection; so much history there, much of it unspeakably sad…
Anne Laurie
@Lymie: Rachel Maddow has a major network television platform; Laura Seay has Twitter (and Adam has this almost-top-10,000-rated blog). Maddow, who is not an expert on Sahelian politics, made some very strong statements which Seay felt were wrong and liable to lead to bad outcomes. I don’t blame her for being frustrated… and, as a feminist, I don’t think telling another woman ‘You don’t know what you’re talking about’ is necessarily worse than ‘Perhaps we might agree to disagree, if that’s not too bold.’
J R in WV
@tobie:
Thanks for the update! I got that feel just from the PR text of the message.
Why wouldn’t they tell a fellow progressive where they stood on specific candidates?
Because their opinions are F’ed up!!
J R in WV
@Chris:
Dude, you’ve had gay priests for a very long time now. Get woke!
aznfg
I put a link to this post up on Facebook in response to a friend who posted Maddow’s theory. It was not contentious just “hey here another point of view.” Another commenter jumped on my link and made some posts first about Laura Seay and then Adam Silverman. He was poking around the site. The comments were slightly nasty. I want to apologize in advance if I set a troll loose over here.
Lymie
@Anne Laurie: if Saey had said that, it would have been better than what she did say, the phrase was “disappointed ” which has the condescension that I was calling out as being one of the usual phrases used to trivialize women taking strong positions. Adam doesn’t seem to think that women can say misogynist things, which I was also noting.
gorram
@raven: I meant in general, I listened to it the same day as my comment, sorry if I wasn’t clear.
Gordon Dimmack
Yesterday, I was known as a Democratic Socialist who loves Bernie and Tulsi….
Today apparently, I am now a Russian Trump-supporting troll because I wrote this about Maddow’s show….
http://lifeungagged.com/rachel-maddow-thinks-niger-soldiers-died-because-chad-had-no-paper-for-passports/