Late Evening Open Thread: Florida Plane! Wait, What????

So this happened in St. Petersberg today:

News Channel 8 has the details:

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (WFLA) – A small plane crashed on a road and hit multiple cars in St. Petersburg Wednesday afternoon.
St. Pete police and fire departments are on scene at 18th Avenue South and 16th Street South.

Two people were on the plane.

Four people overall were taken to area hospitals and one person was treated at the scene.

According to the FAA website, the plane is a 1978 model Cessna 402b, owned by Noble Charter Service out of Opa Locka airport.

Stay frosty and look up on occasion!

Open thread!

113 replies
  1. 1

    I hope no one is hurt too badly, and their medical bills are not onerous.

  2. 2
    Ruckus says:

    What were those cars doing on the runway ossifer?

  3. 3
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Obviously, Florida, once again, told some other state to “hold my beer.”

  4. 4
    dmsilev says:

    Did it properly yield to oncoming traffic before proceeding through the intersection?

  5. 5

    A couple pics from around the Bay the last 24 hours–a foggy morning and a nice sunset.

  6. 6
    different-church-lady says:

    Cole, please offer your unpopular opinion of Miles Davis’ electric period.

  7. 7
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    I’d have taken a picture of Mt Wilson but all you can see is smoke because the inversion layer has been holding down all the smoke from the fire. Which isn’t all that big.

  8. 8
    Peale says:

    @dmsilev: he was ticketed for making a California rolling stop.

  9. 9

    @Ruckus: it was nice to be unable to see the mountains because of something other than smoke.

  10. 10
    Davebo says:

    Two people were on the plane.

    Four people overall were taken to area hospitals and one person was treated at the scene.

    Ground damage worse than crew/passengers. Is Dynair still doing “C” checks in Miami?

    Still, that plane is totaled. Engines and airframe BER and all that’s left is for the neighborhood kids to try and snatch some avionics!

  11. 11
    Steeplejack says:

    Thank you, Mr. Wengay, for using the wide-angle lens on your cell-phone camera! //

  12. 12
    Schlemazel says:

    So, flightaware says this plane landed in Tallahassee at 13:33 this afternoon after leaving Miami at 11:13.

    Missed it my thiiiiiis much

  13. 13
    mai naem mobile says:

    We’ve had a couple of those in AZ. There was one I think where somebody was pretty badly burned.

  14. 14
    ArchTeryx says:

    I don’t think that you can blame Florida for this. It’s a tiny little twin engine; supposedly those can fly on one engine but fully loaded, an engine failure may have forced an emergency landing. And when you’re going down ANY strip of pavement beats emerging from the landing in a few hundred pieces.

    Looks like he got the plane down intact. Gear probably collapsed and the underbelly and props will be shredded, but with that sort of landing everyone should walk away.

    ETA: There were apparently injuries among the folks on the ground. I really wouldn’t have wanted to be in a car when that thing came down on top of me.

  15. 15
    ArchTeryx says:

    @Davebo: What do you think brought them down? My money was on an engine failure on approach, but I’ve read far weirder shit come out of TSA reports.

  16. 16
    trollhattan says:

    We had one of these earlier this month, but the dude is a stunt pilot and landed on a levee. Basically in the middle of the city so I’m quite impressed at his Sully-level skills.

  17. 17
    Suzanne says:

    A similar thing happened to a guy I used to work with. He landed his plane safely after the engine failed….on a highway. He was okay. I hope these people are, too.

  18. 18
    Omnes Omnibus says:


    I don’t think that you can blame Florida for this.

    Feh, you underestimate our ability to blame Florida for things.

  19. 19
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @ArchTeryx: @Omnes Omnibus: I think you underestimate Florida’s ability to generate whacky stuff.

  20. 20
    burnspbesq says:

    It’s time for a remake of “Damn Yankees,” in which millions of Sawx fans offer their souls to the Devil in exchange for two Astros wins.

  21. 21
    ArchTeryx says:

    @trollhattan: I won’t say it’s easy to slam-dunk a biplane but it is easier then, say, a twin-engine Cessna turboprop. And being a stunt pilot gives you a familiarity with the flight envelope of your plane that most pilots can only dream of – for the express purpose of taking the plane to the edge of it and beyond.

  22. 22
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    I can well imagine.
    My friend in Santa Rosa didn’t lose her house. We had someone on BJ who actually lives in Santa Rosa and talked about the fire, I think on monday. Politically ________ I think?

  23. 23
    burnspbesq says:

    Also, if you want to see a completely absurd sportsball feat, check this out. It may be your first sight of Tehoka Nanticoke, but it won’t be your last.

    Cole will be along any time to claim that he used to do this all the time, and with a long stick to boot.

  24. 24
    rikyrah says:

    Rogue CPI‏ @RogueCPI

    The White House told gold star widow Whitney Hunter to “wait by her phone” because the President would be calling

    He never called.

  25. 25
    rikyrah says:

    Matt Murphy‏ @MattMurph24

    So apparently Kelly told Trump he didn’t get a phone call from Obama but conveniently left out the part where he got an in-person breakfast.
    4:42 PM – 18 Oct 2017

  26. 26
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: I have a guest post from Seaboogie to put up about the fires. I had planned to do it today, but I got busy, so it will be tomorrow.

  27. 27
    No Drought No More says:

    Right after WW2, my father worked as an air controller in California’s Central valley. A plane overshot the runway one day, and it came to a rest fully intact and many rows deep in an orchard. It had somehow bounced in such a way that, although it was intact and unscathed, it could not be maneuvered out from between the trees. It had to be dismantled, and taken out in pieces. Who knows? The lucky bastards that walked away from Newton’s plane may have had the same guardian angels looking out for them today. Or maybe the angels belonged to the property owners in that neighborhood..

  28. 28
    rikyrah says:

    Oliver Willis‏Verified account @owillis

    Three of the dead soldiers whose families Trump ignored or demeaned were black

  29. 29
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @No Drought No More: Newton is actually the Florida state house representative for that district (District 70).

  30. 30
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @rikyrah: And this is surprising?

  31. 31
    Old Dan and Little Anne says:

    We have a friend with a little plane from about 1976 that fits 4. I’ve joked around about how much fun it would be to go somewhere. There’s no fucking way I’m getting on that thing.

  32. 32
    Jeffro says:

    “Stay frosty and look up on occasion” – nice!

    How does that saying go: aim for the moon and you’ll land amongst the stars…or in a residential neighborhood in Florida? Something like that…

  33. 33
    chopper says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    I swear to god, “hold my beer” has to be florida’s state motto.

  34. 34
    Mart says:

    @burnspbesq: Great shot. Unfortunately the FBI busted Tehoka’s agent for working a deal between his dad and True Lacrosse Equipment. No, probably not the same as it is for top basketball recruits, but the ad makes me suspicious.

  35. 35
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Jeffro: i think is meant to be closer to “Keep Calm and Carry On.”

  36. 36
    chopper says:

    dang it is pretty blustery here in Seattle.

  37. 37
    Suzanne says:

    @Old Dan and Little Anne: A colleague’s brother died in one of those little planes a few years back. He won the trip in a charity auction. The pilot crashed it and they both died. I stick to real planes.

  38. 38
    chopper says:

    @Old Dan and Little Anne:

    back when I was in college my roommate’s mom died and left him some money so he bought an old plane and got licensed. on the day he passed the exam he was all “wanna go up?” and I was all “sure”. buzzing around with a freshly licensed guy in a plane the interior of which was held together with duct tape may not have been the best idea but it made sense at the time.

  39. 39
    FlyingToaster says:

    @Old Dan and Little Anne: You’re still probably safer* than you would be in a car on the highway.

    * “Safer” assuming that the plane is maintained properly, and at least as well as your automobile. YMMV

    — Former Airline Brat

    & FYWP for eating my comment

  40. 40
    dmsilev says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    “Keep Calm and Carry On.”

    Well, duh, have you seen the fees for checked baggage these days?

  41. 41
    burnspbesq says:


    If the NCAA declares him ineligible (which would be truly scandalous in light of the failure to impose any sanction on the f’in Tar Heels), he’ll go straight into the NLL and be Rookie of the Year and MVP.

  42. 42
    Steeplejack says:


    Wernher von Braun’s autobiography, I Aim for the Stars (but Sometimes Hit London).

  43. 43
    FlyingToaster says:

    Test 2: Now I’ve had 4 comment attempts eaten by FYWP.

  44. 44
    chopper says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    is his nickname “juice”? cause that would be just awful.

  45. 45
    Jacel says:

    @different-church-lady: I don’t recall Cole’s opinion, but I like Miles’s electric period more and more as the decades pass. I suppose I hold the minority opinion of having “Decoy” as an album I never get tired of.

  46. 46
    opiejeanne says:

    @rikyrah: it’s possible that Trump stopped listening after he heard there was no phone call. Just ignored everything else that Kelly said.

  47. 47
    chopper says:


    of course, if your first name is ‘wengay’, everything is a step up.

  48. 48
    Mnemosyne says:

    What, there were no golf courses nearby? I find that hard to believe.

    I used to live right down the street from Santa Monica airport. They’ve had several pilots crash into houses in the area, sometimes with fatal results for people on the ground.

  49. 49
    ArchTeryx says:

    @Suzanne: @Old Dan and Little Anne: Even the little planes are far safer than the car trip to the airport, but yeah, the risk is significantly higher, relatively speaking, the smaller the plane gets. There’s just less room for error and fewer (or no) redundant systems with a little plane.

    The fellow that died on one in the charity auction was a terrible tragedy, but probably just “irony” in the Alanis Morrisette fashion.

  50. 50
    opiejeanne says:

    @chopper: We’re on the east side and have expected the power to go down since this afternoon. We managed to bake a pie and make supper, so far so good.

  51. 51
    Another Scott says:

    Can we assume the plane ran out of fuel since there was no fire? It certainly looks like the landing could have been much, much worse, but it was bad enough. :-(

    When I was a kid my scoutmaster (or some other family friend) had a tiny Cessna. He took me up in it once. It was kinda amazing, looking out and feeling like you could fall out any second except for the tin-can sheet aluminum below your feet. And landing at about 15 mph (it seemed like). We weren’t up long – I think he was mainly practicing takeoffs and landings, or something. It didn’t interest me all that much to do it again.

    My dad took some flying lessons for a while (he had about a zillion hobbies over the years). One of the lessons was to take the plane up with the instructor, then he would turn the key off and say, “Ok, where are you going to land?” It’s a good way to make one pay attention!


  52. 52
    NotMax says:


    No stay aloft, either.

    Also too, “Wengay?” Middle school must’ve been a barrel of fun for him.

  53. 53
    Duane says:

    My ex worked at a factory next to a commercial airport. After work, she went out drinking. When she got back to her car, she accidentally got onto the runway. Seeing flashing lights behind her, she thought it was an airplane, and drove that Trans-Am for all it was worth.
    When the police finally stopped her, she went to jail.
    Still better than being crushed by an airplane.

  54. 54
    Jeffro says:

    @Steeplejack: See, now that sounded like it might be true, but it isn’t! It isn’t!!

    Wernher’s a hoot in THE MANHATTAN PROJECTS btw…actually, most of the characters in TMP are beyond nuts…

  55. 55
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @ArchTeryx: I don’t like riding in cars that most other people drive. I won’t fly in private planes. I would if i were guaranteed at a ‘chute and that the plane would stay high enough for the the ‘chute to deploy. I don’t trust the second to happen.

  56. 56
    Jeffro says:

    Side note: I plan on playing nothing but The Tragically Hip tomorrow in honor of Gord Downie. Boy was I ever late to that band (but better late than never)

  57. 57
  58. 58
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @chopper: I don’t believe so.

  59. 59
    Steeplejack says:


    We got all the good Germans after World War II; the Russians got all the mean Nazis.

  60. 60
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @rikyrah: @opiejeanne: It is most likely that the President asked: “did Obama call you after your son was killed?” Gen Kelly responded with “no”. And that was the end of the conversation on this topic. The protocol would have been that any call or correspondence would go directly to Gen Kelly’s daughter in law as next of kin.

  61. 61
    NotMax says:

    @Omnes Omnibus

    Suffered from severe² airsickness as a kid. Can (mostly) handle the big birds now but merely looking at a two- or four-seater is still enough to make me gag. Biological father had several of them over the years, including a Bellanca (pressurized cabin) – I went through a LOT of barf bags.

  62. 62
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: Not in that part of St. Pete.

  63. 63
    Suzanne says:

    @ArchTeryx: The plane that crashed was built in 1971, and I believe it was a Soviet plane that the pilot/owner had spent years restoring. The pilot was getting up there in years, but had flown 60 missions in Vietnam and was a pilot for Braniff. No distress call or any alert of any kind was made. It was just a terrible tragedy.

    No little planes.

  64. 64
    Gravenstone says:

    @Another Scott: I briefly attended a school where getting various flavors of a pilot’s license was common. One of the other guys related a story about his instructor while pursuing his private flight license – a former Marine aviator. Pulled the main power bus when the kid was distracted then had him go through restart protocols. Pucker got really high when they weren’t working. Learned a whole new appreciation for focus under stress.

  65. 65
    jl says:

    I’m glad that no one was badly hurt and not too much property damage. And thanks to Adam for nice low key and interesting post, interesting and notable but not too nerve jangling. I think we’ve all had too much nerve jangling over the last month or so.

    But I want to put a marker down here and now. I will not stand for any lowering of the bar on ‘Florida crazy’. These kinds of plane accidents happen frequently.
    Apparently the pilot wasn’t dangling naked outside the plan before it crashed. The guy narrating the video was sane, thoughtful and informative.

    This is ‘Florida sane’ not ‘Florida crazy’. If we find out the pilot was trying to wing walk and fly at the same time will jerking off, then I will reconsider.

  66. 66
    Steeplejack says:

    Weird: the SiriusXM “live” feed of the Dodgers-Cubs game is two minutes behind. The sound on my TV went out a few days ago, and I haven’t found time to finish troubleshooting it. I’m pretty sure it’s not the sound bar or the TV itself and that it’s probably the aging DVR/​cable box. So I haven’t been watching much TV except for sportsball. Tonight I thought to watch with SiriusXM as a “simulcast,” but I had to pause the TV for about two minutes to get the video and audio into sync. Must be a long round trip to the satellite and back to earth for the signal.

  67. 67
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: The skydiving porn shoot was done near Bakersfield, CA.

  68. 68
    jl says:

    As a native and current resident of California, a formerly craziest state of these great United States, I think the current craziest state must earn its crazy every damn day. We did while we had the title, and all you other states, whatever state wants the damn title, should earn it to.

    (separate comment since the can’t edit your your comment nuisance is back)

  69. 69
    opiejeanne says:

    Does anyone besides me remember the air traffic reporter/pilot Bruce Wayne? He was a regular on several radio stations in LA and interacted with Lohmann and Barkley’s silliness during their show. “Mine is a lonely vigil,” was his comment.
    He crashed in 1986 after only getting up to about 500 feet. IIRC, he had the choice of landing on a schoolyard with kids or crashing into the parking area behind a store. He chose the store, hit an empty delivery trailer and died.

  70. 70
    NotMax says:

    What happened to promised Florida UFO lady post?

  71. 71
    Steeplejack says:

    In other news, I accidentally discovered that Jose Cuervo margarita mix combined with Cuervo Especial tequila makes a pretty damn good margarita. Go figure.

    My aged mother, who has been visiting the last 10 days, is not much of a drinker—she is a complete lightweight, in fact—but she does like a glass of Chardonnay in the evening or, occasionally, a margarita, i.e., a glass of Jose Cuervo’s pre-made mix. Well, some nitwit (looking at you, estate manager at Sighthound Hall!) got the version of Cuervo mix without tequila, which just wouldn’t do. So I took over a bottle of the correct stuff and brought home the placebo mix last night. I combined it 3:1 with some Cuervo Especial and was surprised to get a pretty good margarita—much better than the pre-made mix and good enough to make me feel a little lazy about doing a homemade marg in the future (for casual occasions). I’m having another one right now to double-check my research.

  72. 72
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks for the info. Does that mean CA is back in the running!? Wheeeeeh!

    @NotMax: thanks for reminding me of that. That is a woman running for congress in Florida, huh? That title is going to hard to get back. Don’t mess with Florida.

  73. 73
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Suzanne: My mom’s favorite student from her teaching career died with his family, as his father, a doctor, flew his family into the ground. The younger John Kennedy died because flying a small plane isn’t easy. I won’t fly in one.

  74. 74
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @NotMax: It is on my list for later in the week. It was a busy day.

  75. 75
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: That was several years ago.

  76. 76
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: That’s Miami.

  77. 77
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I thought there was a Florida state law that said there had to be a golf course every two miles. That’s what it looked like when I was there.

    I am disappoint.

  78. 78
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh. Shoot.. CA crazy is fallen on hard times. We’ll never get the title back at that rate.

  79. 79
    Mike J says:

    @opiejeanne: And where were you and chopper for the meetup?

    (Lost power for 60 seconds here, UPS kept everything up.)

  80. 80
    trollhattan says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    I know just one pilot I trust enough to go up with (although seldom). After each landing he says, “Well, cheated death again.”

  81. 81
    opiejeanne says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Bakersfield was originally just a field owned by a guy named Baker, and people went out there to watch barnstorming and wing-walking exhibitions.

  82. 82
    Mnemosyne says:


    My boss’ husband makes fabulous three-ingredient margaritas: fresh lime juice, Cointreau, and decent (but not top shelf) tequila.

    The trick is that you have to pour the mix into pitchers that are packed with ice and let the ice melt for at least an hour so you don’t pass out after your first one.

  83. 83
    Suzanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: You are smart.

    I also will not skydive. 1) I don’t go up in small planes, and 2) I don’t jump out of perfectly good aircraft.

  84. 84
    trollhattan says:

    We hold neither the mass murder nor serial killer record (where have you gone, Juan Corona?). Inexplicable.

  85. 85
    opiejeanne says:

    @Mike J: my youngest child wanted to go to a book signing in Bellevue at 3. We made the plans before I knew about the meet up. She begged off just before that so I figured we’d probably be so late you’d all be gone.
    We ended up grubbing out part of the garden, digging up the last of the potatoes, and getting organized for winter.
    I think you know what I would have preferred.

  86. 86
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: That part of St. Pete hasn’t been urbanly renewed…

    We do have a Publix every two miles.

  87. 87
    opiejeanne says:

    @Mike J: my youngest child wanted to go to a book signing in Bellevue at 3. She begged off just before that so I figured we’d probably be so late you’d all be gone.
    We ended up grubbing out part of the garden, digging up the last of the potatoes, and getting organized for winter.
    I think you know what I would have preferred.

  88. 88
    Old Dan and Little Anne says:

    @chopper: Yup. We knew another older couple when we lived in Annapolis. We were in our mid 20’s and out late drinking one Saturday night saying we would go flying in his plane one day. He called us early the next morning to go up and I said, “thanks, but no thanks.” I was hungover as balls. He probably was as well. Godddamn rich people.

  89. 89
    jl says:

    @trollhattan: Thanks. Your comment made me realize that taking a breather of a few decades or more on being the craziest state might be just fine.

  90. 90
    Omnes Omnibus says:


    I also will not skydive. 1) I don’t go up in small planes, and 2) I don’t jump out of perfectly good aircraft.

    I have gone up in a small plane to jump from it. Jumping is fun. OMG, you have no idea how fun it is…

  91. 91

    I can’t tell if that’s meaningful here or not. Certainly, Trump hates blacks enough to deliberately get them killed, much less ignore their deaths. On the other hand, he’s such a total lazy, selfish shithead that ignoring these things is damn near his MO.

    Upon consideration, I’ve heard he has contacted previous next of kin, if haphazardly and in an asshole way. I’m going to guess that race played a factor in making sure he ignored these, and particularly showed itself in him being unable to even pretend he cared when he was forced to talk to the next-of-kin.

  92. 92
    Steeplejack says:


    Yeah, that’s pretty much my recipe for a “real” marg, but it’s enough of a production that I don’t do it all the time. Was pleasantly surprised to find that the Cuervo non-alcoholic mix combined with bring-your-own tequila is actually really good—better than a lot of the margs I’ve gotten in various Mexican restaurants.

    When we’re in Rehoboth Beach, Bro’ Man and I always try to hit Agave, a great Mexican restaurant in the adjacent town of Lewes. Really good food and great margs. We like to eat at the bar and watch the bartenders cranking through buckets of limes with one of those juicer gizmos.

  93. 93
    amygdala says:

    @opiejeanne: I remember him. If you were a commuter, Bruce Wayne’s voice was in your car a lot, and when he died it was like losing a trusted long-term neighbor.

  94. 94
    trollhattan says:

    Our little experiment, as flawed as it is, works a lot better than the Republicans keep telling us. Not bad for what…a ninth of the nation’s population. And Texas will never have the Sierra.

  95. 95
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: We wait with hushed breath while you figure it out. Is he racist? Do tell.

  96. 96
    Mnemosyne says:


    It’s probably that the mix itself is fine — there’s not that much variation in lime juice — but they use really crappy tequila for the alcoholic version. If you use your own halfway decent tequila, you’re ahead of the game.

  97. 97
    opiejeanne says:

    @jl: I can’t remember, but is there a ubiquitous nutcase who ran for office all the time in CA? We have one in WA, goodspaceguy, who is on every ballot. i know CA had some disastrous candidates for local government who won because their names were not “foreign” sounding, like the terrible choice for Santa Ana school board about 8-9 years ago. The board finally removed him.

  98. 98
    Suzanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: You know what else is fun? Not plummeting to your death and having strangers rob your corpse. (Happened to the mother of someone I know.)

  99. 99
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I think the issue is that Trump is an asshole to everyone, so the fact that he’s also a racist means that non-whites get an extra dose of assholery, but everyone gets splattered in some way.

  100. 100
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Suzanne: I apologize. I am sure I am at fault somehow. Right?

  101. 101
    efgoldman says:


    What happened to promised Florida UFO lady post?

    The aliens haven’t brought her back yet.

  102. 102
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne: No, that was aimed at that commenter.

  103. 103
    Suzanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: No, you’re not at fault, but I just can’t imagine ever finding that kind of thing FUN. Plenty of people I know have done it and enjoyed the experience, but I don’t even like rollercoasters anymore, and I have never liked heights. The reminder that things can go terribly wrong is an extra kick in the ass.

  104. 104
    Mike in NC says:

    Trump just can’t be bothered to learn the names of any non-white dead soldiers or their families, who are even lower on his concern scale than the residents of the US Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico.

  105. 105
    opiejeanne says:

    @amygdala: I commuted to Cal Poly Pomona from Riverside for 3 years and they were my constant companion.
    My favorite bit of silliness was the soap opera Light of My Life (I think?) where the huge cast of imaginary characters played other characters on the soap. They had a cast of about 100, IIRC, and one of them did the bulk of the voices, the other one did one plus a cat I think.
    W. Eva Schneider and Ted J. Baloney commuted from Brawley in an old fire truck. Sometimes he made W. run behind it for exercise.

  106. 106
    Genine Tyson says:

    Florida always has to be extra.

  107. 107
    opiejeanne says:

    @amygdala: we were driving home from some place north and were on the 101 in Ventura county when we heard the news. It really was like losing a family member.

  108. 108
    Fair Economist says:

    I went skydiving once because of a friend who was really into it. My mother said she’d disinherit me if I did it again. So I didn’t. It was interesting but I wasn’t compelled to repeat it.

  109. 109
    Steeplejack says:


    Truth. Was a revelation, filed for future reference.

  110. 110
    frosty says:

    @Steeplejack: Quality Control checks are important. Glad to see you’re following the ISO 9000 SOP here.

  111. 111
    jl says:

    @Fair Economist: I’m a little puzzled by your mother’s reasoning. If her fears were justified, why would she need to?

  112. 112
    Steeplejack says:


    For sure. Science!

  113. 113
    Skepticat says:

    A sister plane from this same charter company crashed on my tiny island in the Bahamas in December after losing the brakes while landing; came within a few feet of ending up in the ocean. This is not a good habit to develop. However, no one was hurt, I got to run my golf cart on av gas for a couple of months, and we had considerable excitement for a day or two. It also let us repeat ad nauseam one of our favorite mantras—There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.

Comments are closed.