Blaaarrrgh! (Open Thread)

I was going to say something about how Kellyanne Conway demonstrated the Platonic Ideal of the concept of “shamelessness” this morning when she called out Senator Corker for “irresponsible” and “demeaning” tweets at President Crazypants. I thought maybe I’d note that we’ve come to a pretty pass when blood-gargling autocrat Vladimir Putin suggests maybe Twitler should dial it back a notch on the saber rattling at North Korea.

Or maybe we could discuss the hypocritical, stupid and expensive (to taxpayers) stunt Pence pulled this weekend to further the blatant lie that black NFL players are disrespected the flag, anthem, troops, first responders, mom, or apple pie rather than peacefully protesting the senseless slaughter of unarmed black people by bad cops. Or talk about the fact that Nazis held another tiki torch rally in Charlottesville.

Then there’s the tax “reform” smash-and-grab. The endless attempts to steal healthcare access from millions. The plot to shiv the Dreamers and ongoing demonization of immigrants. The “thoughts and prayers” and nothing more on gun control. The chipping away of civil rights. The war on women. The degradation of the environment. All of this and more, happening right now. Someone should bear witness, but there are only so many eyes. What a catastrophuck.

Open thread.

301 replies
  1. 1
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Stop beating around the bush Betty, and tell us how you really feel.

  2. 2
    Corner Stone says:

    B Crack got a retweet from Joy Reid on the twit thingie. It makes me so happy to see two of my favorite people playing in the same sandbox!

  3. 3
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    These people are every bit as deplorable as Hillary said, and then some.

  4. 4
    Citizen_X says:

    Or the fact that we can ignore Puerto Rico now, because things are going so well there, except for that loud mayor lady insulting the President.

  5. 5
    eric says:

    Betty: no dialing back of Obama coal environmental regs? neoliberal corporate shill.

  6. 6
    matt says:

    The Trump Administration is the worst gang of miscreants that’s ever been assembled for the purpose of leading this country into the toilet. They’re like the Joker being elected mayor of Gotham City. I’m just amazed Americans are so careless about their fortunes that they would be this irresponsible. Trump voters are suicidal idiots, lemmings.

  7. 7
    The Golux says:

    If I had Anthony Fremont’s powers in “It’s A Good Life”, the cornfields would be full of jack-in-the-boxes. Unlike the Twilight Zone episode, this would make the world a much less horrifying place.

  8. 8
    gratuitous says:

    Someone should ask Pence to rattle off the numbers of the players that offended him so much. Any of the numbers. Just one number?

    Of course, since he should have been concentrating all his attention on Old Glory, one wonders why he was scanning the sidelines for occasions of offense.

  9. 9
    joel hanes says:

    Much of the wine country north of San Francisco is on fire this morning, from Santa Rosa up through Willits.
    The SF Chron has pictures and many reports of “structure damage”.
    Down here in Silicon Valley, eighty miles to the south, the air smells like a giant campfire, and the skies are hazy.

  10. 10
    Mike in NC says:

    Briefly turned on MSNBC during breakfast and it appears that Rex Tillerson is almost road kill at this point. Pompeo seems to be the designated replacement for SoS. Fat Bastard trusts few people who aren’t either family members or slavish loyalists like Pence. That isn’t how government was intended to work: the Trump Crime Cartel just isn’t cutting it when dozens of important positions are left vacant.

  11. 11
    Kay says:

    People didn’t hate Pence as much as Trump though- less exposure- so it’s good he’s out and about.

    You have to get to know Pence to appreciate the full horror.

  12. 12
    Just one more canuck says:

    “Catastrophuck”. Thank you Betty for increasing my vocabulary

  13. 13
    SFAW says:

    If only there were some institution(s) which could call this Maladminstration to account, or if only there had been one which could point out Lying Littledick’s non-stop lying, his (likely) criminal behavior, his lying, his fake “wealth,” the help he received from his товарищи, but in Russia and in the Congress, the voter suppression in red states — before the “Election.”

    I wonder if such institutions exist in the world. Maybe in a non-banana republic or authoritarian regime.

    FTFNYT and MOST of the rest of them. (Not all: the WaPo was better than most, and Fahrenthold and Ari Berman did some excellent work.)

    ETA: Did I remember to mention Shitgibbon’s lying?

  14. 14
    Baud says:

    @Kay: Even the people of Indiana were starting to learn.

  15. 15
    Politically Lost says:

    I know it’s not national news yet. But, I live in Santa Rosa California and we had a 20,000 acre wildfire rage through Napa and Sonoma counties overnight. Out neighbors woke us at 4am to say, “Hey there’s fires everywhere!”

    The wife and I are just outside the evacuation areas but we’re literally surrounded by multiple fires. It feels so apocalyptic. There’s billowing smoke on three sides of us. I’m wetting down the house and yard but we back up to a heavily wooded area. Anything could happen in the next few hours.

  16. 16
    Kay says:

    When you think about Mike Pence remember Indiana Republicans were desperate to get rid of him:

    It also makes for a good fit for Indiana Republicans, who are ready for Pence to go after a tumultuous first term in Indiana that has opened up a chance for Democrats to claim the governor’s office. If that means sending Pence on the road with Trump, all the better.
    Removing Pence from the governor’s race, several senior Indiana Republican officials, aides and operatives said, would allow the state GOP to escape from the turmoil of years of social battles over same-sex marriage and religious freedom.

    He should attend events all the time, in my opinion :)

    “Why is Mike Pence disliked in Indiana?” Now everyone will find out.

  17. 17
    Baud says:

    @Politically Lost: Oh no. Stay safe.

  18. 18

    @Politically Lost: Wow, that’s scary as hell.

  19. 19
    Kay says:


    They were like “God, but he’s a sanctimonious phony asshole”

    I think Trump picked him BECAUSE he’s a low quality pol- no one is allowed to be more popular than the giant toddler.

  20. 20
    SFAW says:

    @Politically Lost:

    Stay safe. I hope it completely misses you. Sounds pretty scary.

  21. 21
    Baud says:

    @Kay: He does benefit from being mostly in the background.

  22. 22
  23. 23
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @joel hanes:

    Here in metro Atlanta it’s gloomy and rainy, occasionally stormy — the aftermath of Hurricane/TS/TD Nate. Supposed to be like this at least through the day and overnight. I find it very hard to get up and motivated when it’s like this.

    And my hatred for the entire Trumpian catastrophuck (thank you, Betty!) isn’t doing a thing to improve my mood.

  24. 24
    Kay says:


    I think he’s most famous for the fake “religious liberty campaign”- that or hating gay people.

    Not a lot of accomplishments.

  25. 25
    MazeDancer says:

    @Corner Stone:

    B Crack got a retweet from Joy Reid on the twit thingie.

    As it should be.

    I. too, cheered when I saw that this AM. In 2 hours, Betty’s tweet gathered 746 RT’s and 1.5K “likes”.

  26. 26

    At this point of time both set of Rs are working towards the same goal, destruction of post WWII America.

  27. 27
    debbie says:

    Hmm. Maybe it wasn’t food poisoning. Maybe it was Washington DC.

  28. 28
    Politically Lost says:

    A friend lost his apartment complex two miles from here. He got a triple whammy. His sister’s house is lost and his parents house is right in the path. Fucking crazy.

    What’s even crazier is that he’s an attorney and the local worker’s compensation court did not close. Even though all other courts, schools, etc. are closed. He has to go and ask for continuances! Bloody fucking hell. The court is literally a mile and half from where the fires are burning on house covered hill sides. He stopped by for a shower and some a shirt so he could go to court. I’m glad I don’t do work comp.

  29. 29
    PatrickG says:

    @Politically Lost: My wife’s parents, my aunt, and my cousin have all evacuated. Unsure if their homes are standing right now… :/

    Stay safe!

  30. 30
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Politically Lost:

    Wow, how terrifying! Please be safe, and keep us informed as you can.

  31. 31
    debbie says:

    @Politically Lost:

    Just get out of there.

  32. 32
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kay: I think Trump picked him because the Russians told Manafort to convince him it was all Trump’s idea to have Pence on the ticket.
    Pence is going to be doing that stern faced small head shake as they take his orange jumpsuit wearing self to the clink.

  33. 33
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Politically Lost:

    Okay, two miles away? Please, please, evacuate now!

  34. 34
    Humboldtblue says:

    Hot, dry winds whipped up wildfires across Northern California last night. Thousands of residents in Santa Rosa (Sonoma wine country, north of SF) have been forced to evacuate as the fire threatened the city itself. Further north (and just to my south) two wildfires ripped through bone-dry chaparral and scrub oak and sent at least two people to the hospital with severe burns and burned down a dozen structures including homes.

    Watching neighbors try to save their homes is heartbreaking

  35. 35
    Corner Stone says:

    @Citizen_X: Just another nagging woman. Feel free to filter her out. FEMA has.

  36. 36
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Wishing safety to your relatives, and to everyone in the path of these fires. Scary stuff.

  37. 37
  38. 38
    Baud says:


    I want those two to turn on each other.

  39. 39
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    @Politically Lost:

    I’m in the northern Sacramento valley but know your area well. We had major fires in ’08. Utterly frightening. I hope you stay safe!

  40. 40
    Baud says:

    @Politically Lost: Court gotta get those claims dismissed.

  41. 41
  42. 42

    @joel hanes: it’s even worse in San Francisco. Everything looks orange and it’s snowing ash. It’s not as bad as the 2001(?) front range fire smoke I experienced in Denver but it’s the worst I’ve been near since.

    ETA not quite true, I was up in Trinity for a bit a few years ago during a big one.

  43. 43
  44. 44

    @Politically Lost: get the hell out if you can. Stay safe.

  45. 45
    gene108 says:

    I wish the media would point out how fucking crazy and unprecedented it is that this administration is advocating reporters get fired for stating their opinions, and staging their own counter-protest to something they do not approve of.

    I’ve never seen a Presidential administration go out of its way to try and publicly punish enemies.

  46. 46
    Politically Lost says:

    @Baud: You know that’s what they’re in business for.

  47. 47
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Half are deplorable; the other half are despicable.

  48. 48
    tobie says:

    @Mike in NC: I’m trying to think of a Life-of-Brian, Always-Look-On-the-Bright-Side-of-Life response to this shitshow and drawing a blank. The only good thing I can think of is that taking Pompeo out of the CIA might give some breathing room to career employees to investigate Russian interference in the election in a way they cannot under Pompeo, who has denied any interference from the get-go.

  49. 49
    dnfree says:

    @Politically Lost: My brother’s winery is in Sonoma. We are anxiously waiting to hear how he fares. Roads closed around him and winery of course is closed for the day. Reports say emergency response is focusing on evacuating people (as they should) rather than fighting the fires so far.

  50. 50


    I’m trying to think of a Life-of-Brian, Always-Look-On-the-Bright-Side-of-Life response to this shitshow and drawing a blank

    My go-to in such situations is “at least I’m writing again!” or “at least I’m listening to The Mountain Goats again!”

  51. 51
    WereBear says:

    Fires are even more scary and unpredictable than hurricanes. Everyone err on the side of safety!

  52. 52
    Politically Lost says:

    My wife, my doggy and me are safe. We’re four hundred yards from the county fairgrounds which is an evacuation place. It’s just that I don’t want to lose my house. So, I’ll stay here and protect the neighborhood as best I can and walk/drive out if it comes to it. The city recently evicted a homeless encampment in the heavily wooded hills behind my house. They did a lot of fire cleanup around the area but, if the winds kick up the whole hillside could burn right to my backyard.

    I hear the helicopters and planes working the fires now. Gonna go walk the neighborhood and see if anyone needs help. I’ll check back here in about an hour.

  53. 53
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Politically Lost: damn, stay safe. I know how it felt here in San Diego in 2007- scary stuff.

  54. 54
    Biscuits says:


    This. I knew that republicans where indifferent to governing but I never understood just how reckless, flippant, and spiteful a good portion of my fellow Americans could be. Such total disregard for their/our future. I think it’s a reflection of their privilege and racism. How could any thinking person vote for trump if not for racism, spite and privilege? There is no excusing this behavior.

  55. 55
    sukabi says:

    I got nuthing…but this made me chuckle this morning… Nonsensical Rifle Addiction. The Dutch for the WIN.

  56. 56
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Humboldtblue: A vision of hell. Stay safe, everyone!

  57. 57
  58. 58
    Schlemazel says:

    @Politically Lost:
    Pack a bug out bag with all your important papers and as many irreplaceables as possible, don’t wait till the last minute. Take care of yourself & here hoping the preparations will turn out to be unnecessary.

  59. 59
    Starfish says:

    You forgot CHIP expiration and taking health care away from poor kids.

  60. 60
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Baud: Me too. Remember when Trump was playing coy about the VP pick and Pence refused to leave town until the story broke — after Trump assured him he was the guy? Even that dimwit knows better than to trust Trump. How sweet it would be to see both of them get the comeuppance they so richly deserve.

  61. 61
    Amir Khalid says:

    There have been US administrations that were mean, petty, stupid, and corrupt; but I can’t think of one that worked as hard at it as this one does. This lot have the integrity of Mundungus Fletcher, the steel spine of Lucius Malfoy, the modesty of Gilderoy Lockhart, and the skill in government of Pius Thicknesse.

  62. 62
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Remember when Trump was playing coy about the VP pick

    IIRC, he was frantically phoning his advisors at midnight the night before the announcement asking if he could still change his mind.

    ETA: And when the announcement ceremony finally took place as scheduled, he stood there and talked about himself for 20 minutes, spared a few boilerplate comments about Pence, shook hands in a dismissive, desultory way, and then walked off stage. Mr. Graciousness.

  63. 63
    jl says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Moist, cooler, winds from ocean aren’t due until tomorrow morning, so it will be rough 24 hours up in Napa and Sonoma. Counties. Hope for as little damage as possible in the meantime.

    Edit: interesting that US Weather Service had a very good forecast of extreme Diablo winds a week ago. Seems like should be an effort to take advantage of that kind of warning in the future, though I have no idea what that kind of effort would be. Anyway, wind gusts of up to 85 mph overnight, some places experienced sustained winds of 65 to 70 mph, nearly hurricane force, except very warm and dry.

  64. 64
    mai naem mobile says:

    Maybe Dolt45 is a Democratic mole doing shit so incredibly badly that Americans will never vote for a Republican again. Ever. As I type this it wouldn’t surprise me if the GOP turns this theory into an accepted scientific theory parroted by the Village mediawhores within five years.

  65. 65
    Schlemazel says:

    I laughed until I cried . . . and cried and cried and cried

  66. 66
    Baud says:

    @mai naem mobile: They’ve already toyed with that theory.

  67. 67

    @mai naem mobile: I dunno, Bush wasn’t enough to keep democrats in power more than a few years, eight if you only count the presidency and don’t look at congress and the states.

  68. 68
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Amir Khalid: And a flock of Death Eaters supporting them.

  69. 69
    Humboldtblue says:

    Governor Brown just declared state of emergency for North Bay, evacuation centers in and around Santa Rosa have filled up quickly and the Red Cross is asking for volunteers.

  70. 70
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Agreed. Enough people are locked into them or are so committed to “both sides” that they can’t hold the GOP accountable.

  71. 71
    ArchTeryx says:

    As I posted on the Great Orange Satan, a whole lot of it is worship of wealth. The wealthy get away with literal murder in this country on a routine basis. While I try not to fall into the basic Marxist trap of describing ALL pathology as relating to late-stage capitalism and the worship of wealth, it is the root of a whole lot of our evil. And not just us. Take a damn good look at how the U.K. is busy self-destructing over its own worship of the wealthy. It’s also one and a piece with hatred of the poor – if the wealthy are the Winners and allowed to do whatever they please, the poor are the Losers and deserve nothing but death.

    Now add the fact that said wealthy are constantly stirring the stew of reactionism and revanchism, and mix in a generous helping of misogyny and racism that have always been with us, and you end up with what we’re seeing running the country. FSM help us all.

  72. 72
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Amir Khalid: 15 points for Hufflepuff! (Just a guess. :)

  73. 73
    Schlemazel says:

    I am suffering from outrage fatigue. The last few weeks I have not been volunteering for the phone banks or attending the planning sessions. PArt of it is the other shit going on in my life but I think mostly it is that my give a shitter is broken. Too many fucking morons that either don’t know, don’t care or are so fucking brain damaged they are sure the Democrats are worse. It was a good run, 250 years is more than most get, it is over now and it will be missed but it is over now.

  74. 74
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Politically Lost: Stay safe. Here’s hoping you get rain. Too bad we can’t send our snow your way.

  75. 75
    jl says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: IIRC, Trump wanted Christie. I guess he felt more comfortable with a fellow bully, but one that he had experience bullying himself. And Christie had shown eagerness to humiliate and subordinate himself to Trump, if that meant he got a share of the spot light, and a place in the gravy train.

    I put Trump’s asinine attacks on Corker as a good thing. Now we have three or four Senators who are pissed off, and may be more willing to bolt on the super rich person’s tax slash bill. Important to note that Medicaid and Medicare cuts have been carried over from abortive effort to repeal and replace Obamacare to the tax slash.

    So, the healthcare demolition effort continues. Might be good to contact Murkowski, Collins, McCain, and ask them if they are going to now vote the the .the very same policies, done under the very same irresponsible procedure that they objected to before, It’s just the same BS, except under a different name. Don’t know if it will make any difference, but now that the Trumpsters have jettisoned Corker, in their toddler way, maybe he is gettable no vote.

  76. 76
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Betty Cracker: I think Amir is more of a Ravenclaw, such as myself!

  77. 77
    Jeffro says:

    Why iz VP Chaperone Me Good and Hard protesting during the national anthem? Doesn’t he know that’s disrespectful?

    Also, perhaps the NFL players could get a good meme going: standing super-rigidly, CARTOONISHLY rigid at attention during the national anthem = same protest as kneeling + FU Trump

  78. 78

    @Betty Cracker: go team ravenclaw*!

    *My husband theorizes that most people who say they’re ravenclaw are really slytherin.

  79. 79
    ArchTeryx says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Heh. Ravenclaw here stuck in a bottom-level Hufflepuff job. Did I mention lately how much classism influences everything in this country?

  80. 80
    ArchTeryx says:

    @Major Major Major Major: It depends on whether you actually want to broaden and/or teach human knowledge, or just want to aggrandize your own ego. I’m a true believer in the former, which is why no actual University would touch me for a tenure-track position.

  81. 81
    Humboldtblue says:

    Feinstein announced re-election bid.

    Wildfire burning to the south just over the county line was at 4,500 acres at 630 this morning, it’s now grown to more than 20,000 acres. Hundreds of homes and outbuildings threatened, thousands forced to evacuate. Santa Rosa in serious danger. Major highways across the region closed, trailer park burned down hundreds of other homes threatened. hospital evacuated.

    Happy fucking Monday.

  82. 82
    Kay says:

    Let’s see- happy news..I’m glad the VA Democrat is a physician. It’s nice they’re not all horrible :)

    Score one for the doctors! You’re evened up on Price now.

  83. 83
    FlipYrWhig says:


    I want those two to turn on each other.


    Oh wait I was thinking “turn each other on.”

  84. 84
    Elizabelle says:

    @ Betty Cracker:

    Norm Ornstein feels your pain. From The Atlantic:

    American Kakistocracy
    From cabinet officials jetting around on the public dime, to Trump’s shattering of ethical norms, to disregard for congressional procedure—there’s a case to be made that the United States is governed by the least scrupulous of its citizens.

    “a case?”

  85. 85
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Humboldtblue: Wow. Stay safe.

  86. 86
    Aardvark Cheeselog says:

    Bethesda embraces anti-Nazi stance: That’s ‘what Wolfenstein represents’

    But it became more widely known as an FPS series in 1992 with id Software’s Wolfenstein 3D, a game about killing Nazis, and the prequel Spear of Destiny, which was also about killing Nazis. The series was rebooted in 2001 by Activision with Return to Castle Wolfenstein, a game about killing Nazis, but went dormant again until the release of Wolfenstein, a game about killing Nazis, in 2009. Bethesda acquired the series along with id Software and gave it a powerful character-driven twist in 2014 with Wolfenstein: The New Order, a game about killing Nazis, and then followed up a year later with Wolfenstein: The Old Blood, a “standalone expansion” prequel about killing Nazis.

  87. 87
    PIGL says:

    @matt: more “Murderous” than “suicidal”. And fillled with an irrational and inconsolable hatred. They are more like Barrow Wights then fellow citizens.

  88. 88
    hedgehog mobile says:

    @Politically Lost: Stay safe!

  89. 89
    Elizabelle says:

    @Schlemazel: I kind of feel that same way. I have been numb for months.

    We have a really important governor’s race in Virginia, and Northam is a great candidate, and I cannot rouse myself to do anything but vote. Maybe GOTV. I’m just dead.

    Grateful for Redshift and Jeffro and others who are fighting the good fight. The fight is out of me. At least for now.

  90. 90
    hedgehog mobile says:

    @Humboldtblue: Stsy safe

  91. 91
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    @Villago Delenda Est:
    These are intriguing speculations. I haven’t thought about where the Sorting Hat might put me, but let me note that it sent Albus Severus Potter to Slytherin.

  92. 92
    Kay says:

    Trump Says He Told Pence To Walk Out On 49ers-Colts Game As Counterprotest

    It’s just so humiliating working there that if you’re still THERE you’re basically beyond redemption. OMG, is it worth it?

    Republicans would have given Mike Pence some no-show job. He would want for nothing, so it isn’t even financial necessity-it’s just a complete lack of self respect.

  93. 93
    matyroshka says:

    @Schlemazel: I am feeling much the same. Last night at a restaurant, a friend and I were having a lovely conversation with some people at the next table who seemed to be worldly, educated, and were retired on coal-industry pensions. When they remarked (unsolicited) that they really liked Trump because he scared everyone, we wrapped it up and left, but talked until late about our utter despair at how this is all going. I feel broken but still angry.

  94. 94
    Humboldtblue says:

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    We’re safe up here, closest fire an hour south. But from there down to Santa Rosa a lot of fire. Wine country is burning

  95. 95
    Schlemazel says:

    I have been trying to ignore a lot of what is happening and hoping to start again after the first of the year. I don’t think we are alone in this and that worries me too

  96. 96
    Another Scott says:

    @Kay: Northam is weird.

    He’s leading every poll, AFAIK, and seems to be acceptable to enough of the state to win next month. And NARAL is strongly behind him. Yay! I’ve donated to his campaign.

    But he voted for W twice.


    And he poo-pooed a bunch of good proposals put forward by Perriello during the primary. And is too close to Dominion Power and wishy-washy on a couple of fracking-fuel pipelines. But he won with a larger margin than the polls indicated, so he seems to know what he’s doing.

    He better win…


  97. 97
    Schlemazel says:

    We were having breakfast last Saturday and there was a large table of women next to us who seemed to be aware of womens issues but one of them was going on and on about how glad she was that hair furor was disabling DC. Nobody disagreed with her. It broke my heart

  98. 98

    @jl: We’re supposed to get Santa Ana’s today, but they haven’t kicked up here yet.

  99. 99
    Jeffro says:

    @Elizabelle: unbelievably some are still having difficulty processing that a wealthy person could be also be a bad person, or that a TV star might have character issues.

    It’s quite possible that this country values the wrong things …

  100. 100
    jl says:

    Nobel Memorial Prize in economics goes to Richard Thaler, one of the founders of behavioral finance. Odd that he didn’t share it with Robert Shiller.

    The economics prize is kind of fakey, since it was set up long after the original Nobel prizes because the economics profession wanted a big prize everyone would hear about at least once a year. But, given that, I think a good pick. Some previous picks, seem horrible in retrospect and seem to have been driven more by intellectual fashion that real big new theoretical ideas or well-established and reliable empirical results. but I think this is a good one.

    Been a lot of noise since 2007-2009 recession about need for ‘new economic thinking’ (though some ‘old’ Keynsian and Minsky thinking worked just fine, except I think it still too ideologically inconvenient to recognize that). I think some people who have provided some very important ‘new thinking’ deserve a prize, but I never see them mentioned as being considered. Donald Saari, Graciela Chichilnisky, and Thomas Frank are three names that come to mind.

  101. 101
    Kay says:

    I feel like everyone knew “Hollywood” was full of sexual harassers- I mean, they had a PHRASE- casting couch – but I did NOT know cable news was this crazy sewer of people prowling the halls so that was more shocking to me.

  102. 102
    Elizabelle says:

    @Politically Lost: I hope you and your neighbors will come through safely. Please keep us posted.

    Wildfires. Perhaps the quote we will most remember Al Gore for:

    Every night on the news is like a nature hike through the Book of Revelation,” Al Gore said Saturday night when asked his opinion of how the news media reports on climate change. “And I’ll wait for the newscasters to connect the dots,” he continued, adding that they rarely do. [Hollywood Reporter link; event was screening of Gore’s An Inconvenient Sequel.

    [Gore encouraged citizens to show up at town halls, and educate themselves on climate change.] “It has to come from the people because the news media is not giving it to us fairly and squarely now.”

    On many, many topics.


    Has Betty from Dominica ever updated us? Wishing her the very best too.

  103. 103
    a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio) says:

    @Politically Lost: Yikes! After the fires in the Smokies last fall, I have developed a great deal of respect for what residents and firefighters in California and other western states have to deal with.
    Take care and look after yourselves.

  104. 104
    seaboogie says:

    @Politically Lost: I’m on the Square in Sonoma. Pretty scary here too. Fires in both directions, and still a few tourists cruising around…

    Stay safe!

  105. 105
    Jeffro says:

    @Elizabelle: Northam is a good guy indeed. I hear you on the fatigue, but I’m still going to try and rouse myself for some calls and door knocking – kinda fun and good exercise to boot!

  106. 106
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Kay: Considering the intense boot licking from Pence it makes me wonder if the Religious Right really thinks Trump is God’s anointed because Trump is rich, white and male. It certainly seems way beyond what I would expect Pence to be doing if Pence thought Trump was a useful idiot for the Religious Right. I suppose it makes sense; the hard right Evangelicals are basically run as a giant scam were the rank and file are conditioned to follow without question if the right code words are said and Trump is the First Confidence Man.

  107. 107
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Politically Lost: Well remember houses can be replaced, lives can not. But good luck and I hope the fire misses you.

  108. 108
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    There are still a dozen R physicians in Congress (and two Ds). Also, let us not forget Dr. Ben Carson of the Gifted Hands. I’m not sure what mischief he may be up to over at HUD, but it can’t be good.

  109. 109
    jl says:

    @jl: Sorry, meant Robert Frank, not Thomas.

  110. 110
    Kay says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I know a lot of religious people and not to be disrespectful but they always think the GOP President is appointed by God.

    It works the other way. Trump is the one because the GOP nominee is always the one.They thought the same thing about Reagan and Bush I and Bush II. They’re the opposite of choosy, these people. It’s not about the person. It’s about THEM. They support who God supports.

  111. 111
    debbie says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    No idea who they are, but the names sound Dickensian and so are very appropriate.

  112. 112
    Brachiator says:

    Di Fi throws her hat into the ring again. From Politico and other sources

    Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said Monday she will run for reelection next year, ending months of speculation about the 84-year-old’s political future amid increasing criticism from progressive activists in deep-blue California.

    Good for her, I guess. Even though some people think that Anonymous, Unnamed Theoretical “Progressive” candidate deserves a shot.

    California has done a lot to try to make things easier for “progressive” candidates. There were term limits, and then open primaries. Of course, the political leadership did everything they could to block these innovations, and keep things tied up for those who were anointed by the party insiders. But voters have not been hot to elect supposed progressives. Feinstein has been around a long time. But this has also been long enough for alternative replacements to be nurtured. But no one really stepped up to the plate to do so.

  113. 113
    Baud says:

    @Kay: Doctor vs lobbyist. Good test to see if people really care about those things other than to beat up on Democrats.

  114. 114
    jl says:

    @Kay: God supports whoever they feel most comfortable with, and that conveniently is always the person who says things that make them feel most comfortable and justified. They are modern Pharisees.

    Edit: or maybe ‘modern Sadducees’ would be a better term. The modern Xtianists have huge temples full of money to guard, and they demand a constant stream of expensive sacrifices from others.

  115. 115
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Has Betty from Dominica ever updated us? Wishing her the very best too.

    Have been wondering about her, and hoping for the best in what must be very trying circumstances.

    Quinerly, too, although she may just be traveling. Wish she would stop in and wave, though.

  116. 116
    Kay says:


    I found out recently my eye doctor is a Democrat. She was also a college cheerleader, which I’m oddly fascinated with and interrogate her about.

  117. 117
    MattF says:

    And there’s the now daily ragegasms from the Oval Office. I’ve never paid attention, but it does seems to me that the adult supervision is getting tired of this shit… I’d like to see a few more R Senators give up on him– and it could happen.

    There’s a lot to dislike about Rick Wilson, but he understands where the problem is.

  118. 118
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Kay: It’s time to be disrespectful of religious people, when 80% of white evangelicals voted for the Great Orange Sh!tstain.

  119. 119
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @gene108: Has anyone been fired because Trump demanded it? I know the Fedural goverment can really put the pressure on if someone gets on their shit list but like most things in goverment, Trump doesn’t seem to understand how that’s done.

  120. 120
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @jl: Gott mitt uns.

  121. 121
    Baud says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    Religious people > white evangelicals

  122. 122
    MattF says:

    @Kay: Some years ago, I was friends with a quite left-wing lady who’d been a cheerleader in high school. She made me swear never to tell anyone, so I’d be cautious about bringing it up.

  123. 123

    Well, it’s time for the fall twice-a-year week of mandatory teambuilding at my office to begin. Woohoo.

  124. 124
    Elizabelle says:

    @Brachiator: I hope DiFi will not. I think 84 is too goddamned old to be running for a 6-year Senate term.

    Is she the only Democrat who can win, in blue California? I think not. Make room for some newer blood.

  125. 125
    Kay says:


    Liberals don’t make enough distinctions between religious people. It’s insanely complicated. I’m not even involved in it and I get that. Betsy DeVos is a completely different breed of cat than Pence. I know exactly what sect/category DeVos is in.

  126. 126
    Baud says:

    @Elizabelle: She already said she was going to.

  127. 127
    Politically Lost says:

    I walked the neighborhood and then drove around a bit. We are in a zone that’s not touched so far but a new line of smoke directly east of us on a ridge several miles away has me a bit worried since the wind is coming from that direction. South of us in Rohnert Park it’s gotten really bad as a number of colleagues have been evacuated because the wind is blowing the fires from the east hills into the town.

    I drove over to my college very near where some of the worst has hit and where they’ve closed the freeway. The fire jumped a six lane freeway and engulfed shopping centers less than a mile from my college.

    I’ve got a smoke headache like you wouldn’t believe but, we’re ok and holding fast until things get better or worse.

  128. 128
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @jl: Many of the past selections in economics seemed to be in the nature of lifetime achievement awards rather than, as you say, any real world applicability of their ideas

  129. 129
    Brachiator says:


    Nobel Memorial Prize in economics goes to Richard Thaler, one of the founders of behavioral finance. Odd that he didn’t share it with Robert Shiller.

    Shiller won in 2013.

  130. 130
    d58826 says:

    @Elizabelle: AGREED. D’s have to start grooming the next generation of leaders. Ultimately that goes of Nancy, Uncle Joe and Bernie also

  131. 131
    jl says:

    @Elizabelle: I read polling indicated only half, at most, of CA Democrats want her to run again, so probably will be a primary. DiFi is so well-known fixture of state politics, would be a high-profile primary. And CA jungle primary could well produce two Democrats in general. I’d hope that only a couple of high power state Dems would want to take her on, so as not to split to Democratic field too much.

  132. 132
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Baud: Yep, but they are all complicit.

    If I have to hear “not a true christian” one more time, I may run up the black flag.These people ARE “true christians”.

  133. 133
    Kay says:


    You’re right. I spent too long on it. I was genuinely interested though. She brought it up. She has a middle schooler who is interested so she wanted the lowdown on local cheerleading. It’s not bad here so I gave her the green light. It’s sporty and athletic rather than subservient and demeaning. They’re generally good students, too, ours.

  134. 134
    WereBear says:

    @Biscuits: This. I knew that republicans where indifferent to governing but I never understood just how reckless, flippant, and spiteful a good portion of my fellow Americans could be.

    It all became clear to me when I realized they regard life as a constant competition to put one over on each other.

    It’s about conning people and taking advantage. It’s about finding “angles” and fleecing the trusting and gullible. It’s zero-sum. Everyone is either a taker or a taken.

    So of course they admire Trump and want to be like him. He’s the King of Con. And in their book, it makes him a winner.

  135. 135
  136. 136
    jl says:

    @Brachiator: Sorry I was unclear. I meant to say that Thaler should have naturally gotten it when they gave it to Shiller. But I think there were three in 2013, so maybe four would be too many?

  137. 137
    d58826 says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    the hard right Evangelicals are basically run as a giant scam were the rank and file are conditioned to follow without question if the right code words are said

    Usdually it is ‘just send money to the preacherman’.

  138. 138

    @A Ghost To Most: all religious people?

    So, like, we’re blaming Jewish folks for southern baptists?

  139. 139
    Brachiator says:


    I hope DiFi will not. I think 84 is too goddamned old to be running for a 6-year Senate term.

    Is she the only Democrat who can win, in blue California? I think not. Make room for some newer blood.

    Would be nice for the California powers that be to develop candidates. But I prefer DiFi to an anonymous unnamed candidate.

  140. 140
    Baud says:

    @jl: I’d rather two Dems than Feinstein vs a GOP. I don’t want to have to fret about California.

  141. 141
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    “Gimme a P!
    Gimme an H!
    Gimme an X!
    Gimme an E!
    Gimme a Z!
    Gimme an N!
    Gimme a G!
    Gimme an A!
    Gimme an S!
    Gimme an F!
    Gimme an R!

  142. 142
    Brachiator says:


    Sorry I was unclear. I meant to say that Thaler should have naturally gotten it when they gave it to Shiller. But I think there were three in 2013, so maybe four would be too many?

    Ah, OK. See your point.

    Nobels, even the newer Economics prize, are limited to three persons.

  143. 143
    Ruckus says:

    @joel hanes:
    Have a friend who lives in Santa Rosa. It appears that the fire is north of her from everything I can see on the news.

  144. 144
    PIGL says:

    @Kay: There is only one distinction of any importance. Namely: who do they vote for?

  145. 145
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Jeffro: That always flummoxes me, when people are surprised that a wealthy person could be a shithead. Have they ever MET rich people? I assume they’re shitheads until they demonstrate otherwise!

  146. 146

    @jl: I guess DiFi wants to get her 30 year pin, I’ll vote against her(ie, for another Dem) in the primary like I did last time.

  147. 147
    Laura says:

    @Ruckus: my hometown. Dad’s in a mobile home Park along 101 in Windsor and all highways are shutdown. I am distraught.
    I wish the bat for your friends and all impacted.
    A wall of smoke along the Napa Ridgeline and smoke,.low-vis through the region and the winds are howling

  148. 148
    Repatriated says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Overly broad generalization, and a valid point to clarify. That said, given that in news media coverage religion is almost synonymous with White Protestant Evangelism, it’s an almost understandable oversight.

  149. 149
    SFAW says:

    @mai naem mobile:

    Maybe Dolt45 is a Democratic mole doing shit so incredibly badly that Americans will never vote for a Republican again. Ever.

    I ran that theory by my brother (NY dweller) last year, before Shitgibbon “won” the primary. His response was, more or less: “No, he’s just an asshole.” He may also have clued me in — not sure if I had heard it before my brother mentioned it to me — that Lying Littledick learned a lot about how to be a dickhead at the figurative knee of Roy Cohn.

    So, I’m afraid what we see is how he really is.

    Thank FSM we didn’t elect that warmonger Hitlary, right?

  150. 150
    Elizabelle says:

    @Baud: That’s unfortunate. It’s not a Ruth Bader Ginsburg situation, though.

  151. 151
    Kay says:


    She hates Trump. She didn’t say that but I can tell :)

    Body language. There’s this impatient, dismissive thing people do.

  152. 152
    Baud says:

    @Elizabelle: No, we should be ok regardless of what happens, and I don’t have a personal stake in which Dem gets elected.

  153. 153
    MattF says:

    @Betty Cracker: You can make a lot of money by being smart and/or talented and/or cheap. But above a certain level, you’ve got to be dishonest as well.

  154. 154
    ThresherK says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Hey, credit where it’s due: They’re trying to undo the New Deal, also.

  155. 155
    Elizabelle says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Haven’t been following, but I wonder how much of DiFi’s announcement is predicated on campaign financing. She wants to fundraise, she can be a king or queen-maker with her warchest, if she herself is not the nominee. She must be sitting on some major cash.

    Also, she may worry that some Silicon Valley glibertarian MOTU is going to run; wants to be a fallback in that event.

    Will start watching more closely.

  156. 156
    Repatriated says:

    @Elizabelle: There’s still Senate senority to consider, plus experience on relevant committees.

  157. 157
    WereBear says:

    @Betty Cracker: They equate wealth with god’s favor, no doubt.

  158. 158
    Elizabelle says:

    @Baud: Yeah. Agreed. Am not against the wisdom of elder females. But you need to make room for the up and comers too; they need their time to shine.

  159. 159
    Elizabelle says:

    @Repatriated: That’s true.

  160. 160
    jl says:


    USA Today article says DeVos comes from Dutch Christian Reform, which is very conservative, but not nearly as partisan as other fundamentalists. Says Xtianist evangelicals not really all that hot on DeVos. DeVos seems to be freestyling her schtick on justification of her educational reform ideas through her religious beliefs. Most sects of Dutch Reform I now about, are not cool with ‘slap-happy justified sinner’ school of Calvinism, and they are not into the weird, and by any sane standard, heretical, mix-and match the verses you like approach to interpretation of Bible and obsession with End-Time as personal revenge fantasy.

    I think DeVos is improvising her religious justification for her policies as her own personal prosperity gospel, since it ties in so neatly with her education entrepreneurship. Even if DeVlos is corrupt and nuts, she is a woman, and standard Xtianists might be uncomfortable with her being an innovator and a leader doing her own thing (even if a dumb, corrupt and incompetent one).

    Betsy DeVos: 5 faith facts to know about the Education secretary

  161. 161
    Humboldtblue says:

    This photo was taken a few miles away yesterday and it depicts how accurate the Cal Fire aviation pilots are when they drop on an active fire. That small blaze was quickly contained but there were several homeowners who nearly lost everything. Just imagine what it’s like in a built-up area in and around Santa Rosa.

  162. 162
    Baud says:

    @Elizabelle: I don’t really buy that argument. There are a million offices in this country for people who want to lead. And I think the make-room rule will generally be selectively applied. It’s like when we saw all that concern about Hillary’s age until her main rivals became Sanders and Trump, and suddenly those concerns disappeared.

  163. 163

    @Elizabelle: I think it’s more to get in early and scare off any young whippersnappers that might have some eyes on the seat.

  164. 164
    jl says:

    @Brachiator: 2013 was a weird hodgepodge of a prize.

  165. 165

    @Repatriated: you know how some atheists get, lumping collective blame on all religious people…

  166. 166
    Corner Stone says:


    But above a certain level, you’ve got to be dishonest as well.

    It’s a kind of insanity. You have to be insanely determined to be a relentless asshole that fucks over every single person around you. To get to that higher level of wealth you have to have no room in your mind for thinking of anything but finishing what you started and fucking as many people over along the way as possible.

  167. 167
    Baud says:

    @Corner Stone: That’s what I would have been if it weren’t for my mom.

  168. 168
    Ruckus says:

    Her phone went immediately to voice mail, so I don’t have any other info. I’d bet she high tailed it south, she has friends around the bay. A side note of no importance now but I have tickets to visit for thanksgiving, wondering if there will be anything to go to.

  169. 169
    Kathleen says:

    @a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio): I found out that these fire fighters are BLM employees. I have 2 cousins who were deployed. They go all over regardless of where they’re based. I had no idea.

  170. 170
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Religion (all religion) makes people do awful, stupid things.

    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

  171. 171
    Luthe says:

    @A Ghost To Most: No, they just worship Fanon Jesus. They wouldn’t recognize Canon Jesus if he started preaching on their TV (too much of a lefty).

  172. 172
    Baud says:

    @A Ghost To Most: Anything that humans care about can make them do awful things.

  173. 173
    Corner Stone says:


    I found out that these fire fighters are BLM employees. I have 2 cousins who were deployed. They go all over regardless of where they’re based. I had no idea.

    Good God! Black Lives Matter members are being paid to deploy and invade areas of the US?! I guess the FBI knew what it was doing when they labeled Black Identity Extremists as a terrorist group.

  174. 174
    jl says:

    @jl: More specifically, I don’t know of any Dutch Reform sect that would tolerate Dispensationalism. Dispensatioanlism is needed to separate the teachings of the earthly Jesus (which were for the Jews of the day, and not intended for us). versus the doctrines of Jesus the Christ, which we are supposed to listen too, and are spelled out by very selective, and seemingly random, bits of Old Testament prophets and the Epistles.

    A good Dispensationalist who really understands the doctrine, will tell you paying too much attention to the earthly Jesus teachings is dangerous and could be the road to eternal damnation. No Parable of the Good Samaritan for you! You pay attention to Christ the Conquerer coming back to judge and punish. Everything is devoted to the upcoming final war between good and evil. That is why some Xtianist preachers can get on the TV and say insane and hateful things, and still conceive of themselves as Christians.

    Softy sentimental, more traditional, versions of Christianity cannot bear to completely throw the teachings of the earthly Jesus into the trash bin of history.

  175. 175
    Elie says:

    @Mike in NC:

    This country is IMHO, moving towards the expulsion of this noxious object from its system. That Corker is so blatantly throwing it down is just one hint. How it will all happen I don’t know and I don’t know that things will happen without great disruption, but I still believe that it is coming. Stay loose and “woke” my brothers and sisters….

  176. 176
    efgoldman says:


    we have three or four Senators who are pissed off, and may be more willing to bolt

    Except for the three ACA saviors, let’s see a vote before we shower hosannas.

  177. 177
    debbie says:


    I remind you: Lots of Rs were jonesing for new blood in their party. Look what’s happened with that.

  178. 178
    mr_gravity says:

    @Kay: Pence is shooting for complete martyrdom. But would settle for simple crucifixion.

  179. 179
    Ruckus says:

    @Politically Lost:
    Have had a brush fire come right down to the houses across the street from mine. The urge to want to help is good. The urge to try to fight a huge brush fire with the hose from your house is not. Help others get out if you can and find safety. A house can be replaced, lives can not.
    All that said good luck. You are near the fairgrounds at hwy 12? My friend lives south east just off of 12 about 3-4 miles.

  180. 180
    SFAW says:


    Except for the three ACA saviors, let’s see a vote before we shower hosannas.

    You’re almost as cynical as I am.

  181. 181
    Elie says:

    I think that it is interesting that Pompeo (now currently head of the CIA), is being considered to replace Ol Rex at State. Rumors I read previously said that Pompeo was suspected as slowing down the investigation on Russia and was a strong Trump loyalist. Maybe it would be good for him to be out of the CIA, though Lord knows, this crew is damaging and horrible, wherever it is.

    Also, in thinking about the arguments that McMaster, Kelly et al are doing their duty rather than serving a master that they agree with… I think I am with Betty when I say that they would do the country more of a favor is they walked away and let the thing collapse. To me they are giving aid and comfort to a treasonous group who are about destroying the US — not sustaining it. They are supposed to be smart. Can’t they see it? The longer this crew is in place, the more damage that they are doing. Their little nipping and tucking around the edges will not alter that one whit. There is only one remedy: expulsion and sterilization of the areas of contamination… the areas of contamination are growing by the day…..

  182. 182
    jl says:

    I missed the Indigenous Peoples Day post. I support that idea.

    Tell skeptics that it doesn’t make any difference whether we judge Columbus by the standards of today or his day. In his day, in Europe, he was accused of gross corruption, mismanagement, and for what we could call today crimes against humanity, and was stripped of his governorship of Hispaniola. That has been public record for centuries. Recent discovery of some old court and church documents just give some horrifying new details on what a sadistic arbitrary and genocidal tyrant the guy was.

  183. 183
    Ruckus says:


    It’s quite possible that this country values the wrong things …

    That may have won you the understatement award of the month.

  184. 184
    Kathleen says:

    @Corner Stone: That was The Kenyan’s evil plan.I’m sure Sessions will replace them with God fearing White Nationalists.

  185. 185
    eric says:

    @jl: nothing is as holy as the holy war between the dispensationalists and the covenant theologians. pre or post trib. good times.

  186. 186
    d58826 says:

    Just saw an AP headline that the Jones act exception will not be renewed. Last week there was an article about how the US military went on full alert for Harvey and Irma. The 101st had their choppers loaded and ready to go and the Air force set up what was called an air bridge to ferry supplies into the affected areas. It was an all hands on deck type response.

    With Maria and PR it seems like DOD has not responded in a similar manner. Question is why? Who made the decision not to establish the air bridge and keep the hospital ship in port for so long. Was it DOD or Der Fuhrer?

  187. 187
    jl says:

    @debbie: True, but a lot of that was corporate astro-turfing to put in Koch-crazy reactionsaries. And with the likes of DiFi, and Bernie, we are getting into ‘all people are mortal’ territory. So, I trust a saner Democratic voter base. The age thing in itself, I don’t care as long as the people are in good health and competent, since a special election to replace DiFi should produce a Democratic CA Senator, and for president, that is what the veep pick is for. So, a candidate who would be a good president should pick a veep who would provide continuity be nearly as good a pres. Obama picked Biden, for example.

    I was just saying that with DiFi only getting fifty percent support at most from CA Dems, pretty good bet an up-and-coming bigshot will primary her. We have the horrible term limit thing here, and more young bloods thinking about next move than there are slots for them.

  188. 188
    Jack the Second says:

    @efgoldman: I kind of want to send everyone who voted against the last repeal t-shirts that say “I PRESERVED THE HEALTHCARE OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY T-SHIRT”, maybe with “(and the gratitude of millions of voters)” on the back.

  189. 189
    d58826 says:

    @jl: Not excusing old Chris but if it hadn’t been him it would have been another European to bump into the western hemisphere. The results would have been the same just a different name on the holiday.

  190. 190
    Corner Stone says:

    Mueller and his team need to hurry the F up:
    Trump administration to terminate Obama’s climate plan

  191. 191
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Billy Crystal’s take on Trump is spot on. I cannot stand Bill Maher but this video was fantastic. And I so agree with him that it was disgusting how Hollywood embraced Sean Spicer, the former SpokesLiar for Trump’s regime. He should be shunned the way he shunned the truth.

  192. 192

    @A Ghost To Most:

    Religion (all religion) makes people do awful, stupid things.

    I think that’s just the appearance, because people do awful, stupid things, and most people are religious.

  193. 193
    Leto says:

    More crap from Kentucky: Lawmaker Proposes Bill To Ban Abortion In Kentucky; the bill comes with the usual ever increasing restrictive fun stuff:

    The proposal would forbid all abortions from the “fusion of a human spermatozoon with a human ovum” until birth.

    Those who perform abortions could be charged with fetal homicide — a felony that can be charged as a capital offense but isn’t eligible for the death penalty.

    More on the enlightened white guy who pre-filed this bill:

    Rep. Johnson is a preacher from Bullitt County, just south of Louisville. He made headlines during his successful race for the seat last year after posting several offensive images on Facebook, including one that depicted President Barack Obama as a monkey.

    He refused to apologize and was disavowed by the state Republican Party and soon-to-be House Speaker Jeff Hoover.

    After the election, Hoover said that Johnson would be “welcome in our caucus.”

    Because of course he’d be welcomed in your caucaus. His only sin was using his outside voice for the inner racist/misogynistic dialoge. And now in post-Dotard reality, there’s no reason to hide/disguise it anymore.

  194. 194
    tobie says:


    Rumors I read previously said that Pompeo was suspected as slowing down the investigation on Russia and was a strong Trump loyalist. Maybe it would be good for him to be out of the CIA.

    My thoughts exactly. Mueller needs access to information that Pompeo at this point controls, and the sooner he’s removed from the CIA the better. It’s a pity it would have to be bump him to State but then again Tillerson has shown no aptitude for the job. The only thing I give him credit for is the admission that Trump is a “phucking moron.”

  195. 195
    Ruckus says:

    This governing thing is a continuing process. Or at least it’s supposed to be. We need new blood, we need the process to continue, not stall out on one old person.
    Last time she ran she got plenty of numbers in opposition, but no one of any substance. But now shes 84. That’s too old, no matter how good a shape she’s in. It was time for her to step aside gracefully and help groom her replacement last time she ran, it’s past time now.

  196. 196
    jl says:

    @d58826: A lot of them were brutal nutjobs, or become such after the power drove them crazy. Columbus, Magellan and Pizarro come to mind. Wasn’t only the indigenous peoples who had reason to fear and hate them, but also their own staff and troops, and their behavior set off a contentious debate in Europe over why and how they could treat other human beings that way. I think the scandals lead to a formal debate in Catholic Church, and a papal decree that indigenous people were human beings who deserved some minimum standards of treatment. Didn’t do much good. But being concerned about their behavior and the example they set is not a new thing.

  197. 197
    d58826 says:

    @joel hanes: AP is reporting 1500 structures destroyed so far

  198. 198
    Mnemosyne says:

    We had to spray our bathroom for ants again last night and I woke up with a fucking migraine, so I have that on top of everything Betty is feeling.

  199. 199
  200. 200
    d58826 says:

    @tobie: Der Fuhrer will appoint a new CIA director who is just as dedicated to protecting Trump as Pompeo. This fish is rotten from the head down

  201. 201
    Brachiator says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    Religion (all religion) makes people do awful, stupid things.

    People do awful, stupid things. Sometimes they use religion to rationalize their atrocities.

  202. 202

    @jl: The other day I had some people here explaining to me about the benevolence of British rule in India, there was even one person claiming to be a historian. So I am not surprised that Columbus has fans.

  203. 203
    Elie says:


    Oh, no doubt. Still it temporarily removes him. Everywhere we look is danger these days. Everywhere.

  204. 204
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    AFAICT, the NYTimes doesn’t have even a word up about the fires. At WaPo, you have to scroll far down the page, and it’s the AP story, but at least they’re acknowledging that this disaster is unfolding.

  205. 205
    MCA1 says:

    @MattF: I don’t know. While it’s certainly been fun watching Corker the last couple days, I’ll wait until a sitting R congressperson who actually is running for re-election starts sparking a feud before I get any hopes up. Bob’s off the chain now, but until he’d determined not to run again he was no better than any of the rest of them, expressing unease and grading on the least sloped learning curve of all time, and before that intimating he wanted to be VP or SoS. You could tell all Spring and Summer he was offended by this fat orb of degeneracy and proud ignorance, but until Corker’s name was not on a ballot anytime in the foreseeable future, he did nothing about it but protest meekly, softly bleating laments about tone and whatnot.

    Same goes for Flake or Sasse or anyone else. When a Republican makes the political determination that open warfare on Trump is a winner for their electoral prospects and acts accordingly, I’ll take notice. I still don’t think that will happen until the aggregate polling sits comfortably under 35 percent. And I’m slowly coming to the conclusion that there may well be nothing that could get us to that point. The fact that he’s ticked higher on Gallup in recent weeks despite trying his damnedest to blunder into a nuclear conflict, getting in a cage match with the NFL, and treating Puerto Rico as a hostile ingrate instead of a humanitarian crisis is…disheartening. Incredibly disheartening.

  206. 206

    @SiubhanDuinne: this morning it was the headline on Drudge, go figure.

  207. 207
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Did Hillary set the fire?

    ETA:. Aren’t you supposed to be building teams right now?

  208. 208
    jl says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Some genocides are more genteel and carefully targeted than others.

  209. 209
    Repatriated says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I think that’s just the appearance, because people do awful, stupid things, and most people are religious.

    And many use their religion to justify the stupid, awful things they would have done anyway.

  210. 210
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Corner Stone: I assume that Trump’s cronies have a list of every dang act President Obama took during his 8 years in office and are systematically going through it and reversing each act. Yet Conservatives keep telling us that Obama had no accomplishments and did nothing except read from a teleprompter and play golf. Go figure.

    Go Mueller. Be thorough but hurry it up.

  211. 211

    @Baud: I am already sick of mandatory teambuilding week.

  212. 212

    @jl: When you are white, genocide is your right, unless you decide to kill other whites. (Like the Nazis, did)

  213. 213
    PIGL says:

    @jl: Thanks for these details. I am not saying there are no differences among the strands of Christianity; only that there is only politically significant difference in the concrete situation. I suppose those inclined could use information such as yours to try to identify the persuadable.

  214. 214
  215. 215
    Patricia Kayden says:


    the benevolence of British rule in India

    Benevolence as in didn’t kill off all the natives? Didn’t steal all the resources from the natives? What benevolence? I guess even here, we have some Niall Ferguson types who don’t understand that there is nothing redeeming about colonialism. Nothing.

  216. 216

    @Major Major Major Major: Is it indoors or outdoors. I remember a ropes course as a team building activity, not so bad, compared to endless discussions.

  217. 217
  218. 218

    @Patricia Kayden: This person claiming to be a historian made two points pointing out to the so called benevolence:

    1. Gandhi succeeded because Britain was liberal
    2. There was a furor over the Jallianwalla Bagh massacre in England.

    ETA: I did some research on 2. The officer responsible for the massacre had to resign but a fund was established in England for his rehabilitation by Kipling and others.
    Kipling contributed a handsome some. They raised more than 50,000 pounds IIRC in 1919.
    Much furor, such
    liberalism. Wow!

  219. 219
  220. 220
    Sab says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I certainly welcome your efforts to punch holes in Churchill ‘s reputation. He got to where he got by a combination of political and aristocratic connections and money, and he was hideously incompetent at everything he ever did except for about three years later in WWII.

    Other than that, huge numbers of bodies ( otherwise known as unnecessarily deceased human beings) across five continents during his long mostly inglorious career.

    Oligarchies just aren’t all that great at governance. They don’t care much about their subject populations.

  221. 221
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Leto: It’s stories like these that make me glad that when I left Canada, I didn’t move to a red state. I can’t imagine what it would be like to live in a state where a Lawmaker, who is being paid with my tax dollars, gets to use racist language against people like myself and keep his job and even propose legislation to restrict my rights as a woman. This is derogatory on so many levels. I guess the only good thing is that this bill if passed into law will be heavily challenged and possibly overturned by the courts.

  222. 222
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: So is everyone else. That’s how they build teams!

  223. 223

    @Mnemosyne: I use ant traps from the 99 cent store, they seem to work.

  224. 224
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    My understanding is that you build teams by, wait for it, building teams. You know groups of people working towards a common goal. Talking about building teams seems to be, let’s face it, bullshit.
    Maybe that was your point.

  225. 225
    Baud says:


    Gandhi succeeded because Britain was liberal

    At least they weren’t Nazis!

  226. 226
    Kelly says:

    @jl: Also Columbus wasn’t all that smart. I’ve read the argument he had with geographers wasn’t about the shape of the earth but the size. Columbus thought the world was much smaller therefor the trip west to Asia was much shorter than other folks believed. They were right, he was wrong. He would have run out of water and food far short of Asia except he got lucky and hit Hispaniola.

  227. 227
    realbtl says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Mandatory team destruction? that’s how I always saw it.

  228. 228
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    No games, even? At least my boss arranged for some games, like an emergency room board game.

    Pandemic would probably be a good teambuilding board game since you all have to cooperate in order for anyone to win.

  229. 229
    MattF says:

    @MCA1: I agree with all that, with a couple of caveats. First, Corker was an early supporter of Trump– so there’s been an actual large change in Corker’s attitude. Of course, Corker should have known better, and it’s mystifying that he didn’t– but it suggests that even Trump’s pals and supporters are paying attention and noting what’s going on.

    Ambition is the malignant vice of politicians, and Corker’s no exception. Early support of Trump was a bad thing, and my guess is that Corker believed he could ride that tiger. He was wrong.

  230. 230
    Mnemosyne says:


    I may have to break down and buy some, but I have to make sure they’re inaccessible to the cats.

  231. 231
    jl says:

    @PIGL: I just got curious and looked up to see if details were there on DeVos’ personal version of crazy religion. I didn’t mean it as some kind of retort.

    I agree with you, actually. In terms of politics, fact that despite the variations, most of them are irreversibly wedded to the most extreme reactionary movements in one party, and hard to think of anything that would change their votes. Need to keep dialogue open, but, like the sad and disappointed Trump knucklehead voters who took a flyer on him ‘not really meaning all the bad stuff he said’, and the white working class that seems to always go with the white bigot, I don’t see much point in making sacrifices to try to change minds that seem permanently made up because of considerations that seem toxic, and even to more moderate religious people, insane.

  232. 232


    Did Hillary set the fire?

    Of course she did.

  233. 233
  234. 234
    Kathleen says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: They’re trying to figure out how to blame Hillary for them.

  235. 235

    @Ruckus: I’m complaining, yes.

    @Mnemosyne: we sometimes play Pandemic on Thursdays anyway, lol. This is lots of breakout groups about mission statements and principles and shit. “Fun” mandatory teambuilding week is the one in the spring.

  236. 236

    @Mnemosyne: I have used ant traps, kittehs are neither interested in the traps or ants. They must not be delicious. Moths, on the other hand, are a kitteh delicacy!

  237. 237
    zhena gogolia says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: @Mnemosyne:

    Our cats ignore them.

  238. 238

    @Mnemosyne: @zhena gogolia: we just don’t let the ants inside, have you tried that?

  239. 239
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    This is lots of breakout groups about mission statements and principles and shit.

    You could have shortened this to 4 words and we would have gotten the same message.

    This is about shit.

  240. 240
  241. 241
    Repatriated says:

    @schrodingers_cat: It’s plausible that Britain could only have been as liberal as it was because it had the resources it stripped from its colonies, and had convenient places to ship its poor and troublemakers instead of being forced to deal with them at home.

    Whether it was worth the ghastly toll depends on whether one was paying the toll or collecting it.

  242. 242
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I honestly wouldn’t blame her.

  243. 243

    @zhena gogolia: My dogs seem uninterested in them as well.

  244. 244

    @Baud: They would throw anyone in jail if they uttered a word against the British. There was censorship, and no freedom of assembly. Sedition was a favorite criminal charge. Whatever the British were running in India, it was not a democracy.
    Unarmed protesters were routinely beaten and jailed without due process. People used to die of concussions from the beatings etc. But not Nazis! Yay.

  245. 245
    jl says:

    @Kelly: The Greek consensus, lead by Archimedes and Eratast-somebody can’t spell it, was right, and consensus of Europe at the time was that they got it right. So, yes, Columbus was one of the lucky monsters of European history.

  246. 246
    Corner Stone says:

    @Baud: It was always burning. Since the world’s been turning.

  247. 247

    @Repatriated: I have no idea how liberal the British Isles were ( not so liberal I guess, if you were not English) but British India was a fucking police state.

  248. 248
    jl says:

    @p.a.: I agree on the last bit.I think Thaler’s approach to ‘rememdies’ to problems of neoclassical economic approach sounder and more moderate than Shiller’s. Shiller doesn’t seem to understand second-best problems.

    In fact, I don’t think the second-best people ever won anything, but it was a fundamental and extremely important contribution. I must remain ever anonymous after typing this, but a subtle intellectual corruption infests the economic profession.

  249. 249
    d58826 says:

    @Repatriated: helped that it was an island and avoided all of the armies rampaging over the European landscape. Armies that England helped to create

  250. 250

    @jl: Don’t forget us when you win your econ Nobel.

  251. 251
    Kelly says:

    I’m leaving you all to solve the world’s problems today. Gonna head up into the dark mossy woods to see if the chanterelle mushrooms are out.

  252. 252
    Repatriated says:

    @schrodingers_cat: that’s part of my point — the difficult political and economic decisions were offshored; inflicted on the colonies.

  253. 253
  254. 254
    SatanicPanic says:

    DiFi is running for re-election.

  255. 255
    jl says:

    @schrodingers_cat: That’ll be the day right after Trump hires Silverman as his chief of anti-terrorism policy and Anderson to run HHS.

    Edit: and its kind of fakey anyway. A couple of commenters always rush in to point that out, with extreme prejudice, each year. But they haven’t shown up yet today.

  256. 256
    Jeffro says:

    @A Ghost To Most:@Brachiator:

    Or it can make people do pretty banal things, like assume they know more than they do, and/or agree with the equally uninformed…because Facts Don’t Change Our Minds.

    (at least not most of ours, most of the time!)

  257. 257

    @jl: May be not T, but in the future Harris administration.

  258. 258
    HeleninEire says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Oh holy shit, they di’nt.

  259. 259
    Mnemosyne says:


    Re-evaluating colonialism from the perspective of the colonized is a big thing right now, and it’s only going to get bigger. In a lot of ways, that’s what the argument over Confederate statues is all about: who gets to write the history of the post-Civil War, pre-Civil Rights United States?

    G and I were down at the Los Angeles Central Library this weekend and they have a set of cool art murals installed that are designed to comment on the “history of California” murals that were painted in the early 1930s. My pictures didn’t turn out, so Bill should go down and take some for us! 😋

  260. 260
    Sab says:

    @schrodingers_cat: We have mice and my ten year old cat has decided he is retired because toxoplasmosis hurts and he might get it. Grr. I hate mousetraps, although the trapped mice probably prefer it to being toyed with by a bored but murderous cat. The little beasts were running back and forth on the water pipes last night when I was doing laundry. Cat yawned and went upstairs.

  261. 261
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Kelly: Lucky you. Around my parts, I have to buy mushrooms from the store.

    @SatanicPanic: Is that a good thing? Haven’t heard much about Senator Feinstein beyond that she’s a longstanding Democratic Senator from CA. At least she’s a shoe in.

  262. 262

    @HeleninEire: I do admit that I am being a tad sarcastic. But excuses were made.

  263. 263

    @Mnemosyne: Where are they? In the Lod Cook Rotunda?*

    *If so, I have pictures.

  264. 264
    Mnemosyne says:


    Interestingly, though, the revelation of the Holocaust may have put additional pressure on the British government to allow India to become independent. A big part of the Nazis’ plan was colonization of the rest of Europe (“lebensraum”), and the parallels just became too uncomfortable for the British government.

  265. 265
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @jl: The dispensationalists can go fuck the fuck off.

  266. 266
    J R in WV says:


    You must be a youngster, as Nixon had a formal enemies list for politicians and reporters who told the truth about him. Nothing new under the sun!

    Folks in the areas of CA which are near fire, pick out what will fit in your vehicle, family papers and photos, and flee immediately. That shit will kill you without mercy. Don’t wait to see the flames, if the pros tell you to evacuate, get your pets and family and go right now. Load your papers and photos into the car now, before it’s an emergency…

    Cousin was a hot shot Forest Service fire fighter for some years, finally quit after her team raced up and over a ridge and her boot heels were melted. Carried a 36 inch chain saw and back pack of emergency gear with. Now with local Vol Fire Dept again, mother of two, more balls than a ranger battalion.

  267. 267

    @Mnemosyne: Also, next time you’re downtown; you should check out the murals at the old Terminal Annex Post Office next to Union Station.

  268. 268
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I guess after getting on Major’s case about calling Newsom an empty suit it would be hypocritical of me to say how I really feel.

  269. 269

    @Mnemosyne: The decision to leave was made because of the pincer movement of Gandhi’s non-violent struggle and that the armed forces, who were veterans of WWII now had had it with following British orders. The INA trials provided the fuse.
    That and the munnies, it was no longer profitable.

  270. 270

    @J R in WV:

    Folks in the areas of CA which are near fire, pick out what will fit in your vehicle, family papers and photos, and flee immediately. That shit will kill you without mercy. Don’t wait to see the flames, if the pros tell you to evacuate, get your pets and family and go right now. Load your papers and photos into the car now, before it’s an emergency…

    This is really good advice.

  271. 271
    Amir Khalid says:

    I think Gandhi’s approach wouldn’t have worked on an imperial power without some capacity to be shamed for its wrongdoing. What worked on the British might well have failed with Stalin’s Soviet Union or the Third Reich. As I recall, the Mahatma himself acknowledged this.

    As for that commenter’s claim to be a historian. there’s little or nothing to gain by lying here about your credentials, and we individual jackals know about each other only what they care to disclose. What leads you to doubt her?

  272. 272
    Sab says:

    @Kay: Our embarrassing lieutenant governor (formerly non-present except to collect her increased salary as insurance commissioner) was a high school cheerleader. Embarrasses yet another American institution with her grift. Yay Mary!

  273. 273
    Mnemosyne says:


    England was able to allow its citizens to keep having large families and prevent birth control from becoming widely used because they had colonies like India, Australia/NZ, and Canada to send the surplus population to, particularly the criminals and the restless young men.

    In France, birth control (specifically the diaphragm) was being used starting shortly before the French Revolution, so they didn’t have as much need for large overseas colonies, at least not until they started getting jealous of the British.

  274. 274
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I’m trying to wrap my head around the claim that a Colonial power which controlled scores of countries all around the world, enslaved millions of Africans and stole millions of dollars worth of natural resources from its colonies to benefit its elites could be called liberal. How the hell is that person defining the term “liberal”? Huge sigh.

  275. 275
    Mnemosyne says:


    We foolishly drove down, not realizing they’re doing massive construction on Flower St. right in front of the library’s parking garage. Definitely plan to take the train.

  276. 276
    Brachiator says:


    Gandhi succeeded because Britain was liberal

    After the Great War (WW I), the various European nations tightened their grip on their colonial empires. After WW II, these nations were too weakened to maintain power. Whether it was France in Algeria and Vietnam, or Great Britain in Africa and India, any supposed benevolence masked an inability to retain control.

    Later, the British could still make some noise over the Falklands, but had to make a deal handing over Hong Kong.

    But even with the background of colonial impression, it seems that India decided as an act of will to use the ideal of government learned from the British and become a democracy. Could you say that democracy was inevitable given the history of India and the subcontinent? I like what I’ve learned (incredibly superficial though it may be) about how the Indian leaders flatly refused to permit the continuation of princely states or any formal aristocracies.

  277. 277

    @Amir Khalid: I am not doubting her but historians can have their biases too. What she said about Jallianwalla Bagh massacre, about the furor in Britain was pretty one sided. To many British people Dyer was doing his duty. He was lionized by the likes of Kipling.
    British may have been better than Stalin and Hitler but they were violent and brutal in India, when they were not being criminally negligent. The subcontinent is still paying the price of British rule, 70 years after independence.

  278. 278

    @Patricia Kayden: They didn’t commit genocide against other Europeans == liberal.

  279. 279
    Mnemosyne says:


    Yes, I don’t mean to imply that the discovery of the Holocaust was decisive. I’m just adding it to the public pressure side of the pincer along with everything else.

  280. 280

    @Mnemosyne: I think that’s some of the construction for the Regional Connector.

  281. 281
    Brachiator says:

    @J R in WV:

    Folks in the areas of CA which are near fire, pick out what will fit in your vehicle, family papers and photos, and flee immediately. That shit will kill you without mercy. Don’t wait to see the flames, if the pros tell you to evacuate, get your pets and family and go right now. Load your papers and photos into the car now, before it’s an emergency…

    Mandatory evacuation orders have been given in certain areas.

    The Twitter message from Anaheim Fire and Rescue is stark and to the point.

    If you are home, leave now.
    For your safety access to the area is not allowed at this time.

    This was 11:36 AM Pacific Time

  282. 282
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    They transitioned to a constitutional monarchy and increased the number of white men who were allowed to vote without an 1848-style revolution, though I’m sure that someone will come along and remind me that they just happened to do that much earlier in their history with Charles I and Oliver Cromwell. But they did manage to get rid of some of the most egregious stuff (like rotten boroughs controlled by a few rich aristocrats) without a full-on revolution.

  283. 283

    @Brachiator: Nothing is inevitable, lot of the credit goes to the generation that fought for Indian independence. I found a 10 episode miniseries, Samvidhan, about the making of the Indian constitution made by the Indian equivalent of C-Span. I am learning a lot from it. Its pretty impressive. The constituent assembly met from 1946 to 1950.
    The father of the Indian constitution has an American connection too. B.R.Ambedkar got his PhD from Columbia.

  284. 284

    @Mnemosyne: I assume you mean the subway, Metrolink’s schedule kind of sucks on weekends.

  285. 285
    Ruckus says:

    @J R in WV:
    After the USS Forrestal fire of 67 the navy changed who and how shipboard fires were fought. Prior only damage control fought fires and this was a huge problem on the Forrestal, as way too few had a clue what to do. So they started training everyone in boot camp, as I think you may know. We learned how to put out fires by putting out fires. In a controlled way but they were real fires and we really put them out. The fun one was being put in a steel compartment, with a fuel oil fire on the other side of a steel partition and we had to put it out as a team before we could open the hatch and get out of the compartment. By the time we were done, the only part of the room not filled with smoke was from about knee height down. It does give you respect for fire, if you didn’t have it before. On board ship I was an entry man, first in, whatever it takes to get in, the guys with the fire hose were behind you.
    Respect for fire is healthy, fighting them is difficult and dangerous, surviving them sometimes can be impossible.

  286. 286
    Brachiator says:


    I assume you mean the subway, Metrolink’s schedule kind of sucks on weekends.

    And Metrolink’s schedule might get even suckier (or is that more sucky) in the future. Even though ridership is still modest compared with the millions of autos on the road, the success of the Gold Line Extension from Azusa to Pasadena is having a huge impact on transit alternatives. Foothill Transit, a really good service, is cutting back some lines. And there is an incredibly stupid battle looming between the Gold Line and Metrolink. The Gold Line is eating into the commuter pool including some Metrolink riders. There is a proposal to eliminate the Claremont Metrolink station, countered by some idiotic proposals to force the Gold Line construction group to undertake unnecessary, but expensive impact studies in a foolish attempt to slow down the next leg of Gold Line expansion.

    A smarter regional transportation agency would be studying how to maximize the benefits of the various bus and train lines instead of pitting one against the other.

  287. 287
    dww44 says:

    @Kay: Yep, this has gotta be the way that all the super Christians I know who regularly invoke the name of God and on facebook and in mixed secular gatherings have to have justified to themselves their vote for Donald Trump.

    On the other side of the coin my heretofore mostly apolitical and not so liberal spouse who did vote for Obama twice, but GWB before that, cannot abide Trump. Has even reached the stage where he’s voiced anger at those who did vote for him.

  288. 288
    satby says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I heard from her(haven’t read the whole thread) to say she’s having trouble with the site on her cell but when she pops open her laptop she’ll say hi.

  289. 289
    Brachiator says:


    I found a 10 episode miniseries, Samvidhan, about the making of the Indian constitution made by the Indian equivalent of C-Span. I am learning a lot from it. Its pretty impressive. The constituent assembly met from 1946 to 1950.

    I just saw that episodes are available on YouTube. Adding it to my “must watch” list. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

    The father of the Indian constitution has an American connection too. B.R.Ambedkar got his PhD from Columbia.

    Yes, a very impressive figure. Very much ahead of his time in some of his attitudes. He also attended the London School of Economics. Interestingly enough, one of his early scholarships was underwritten by one of the more progressive maharajas, Sir Sayajirao Gaekwad III.

  290. 290
    MCA1 says:

    @MattF: That’s a reasonable take. He has moved further on the pendulum than just about anyone, which is interesting. My own response to that is different, perhaps. I’m less inclined to think that may indicate sincerity in his recoil, because I’m too focused on condemning the depth of depravity and ambition and recklessness that led him to cheerily hop on board what was so obviously a runaway crazy train in the first place.

  291. 291
    J R in WV says:

    @ Major Major Major Major:

    So, like, we’re blaming Jewish folks for southern baptists?

    No, just that there isn’t much difference between fundamentalists of different religions.

    I do not see any difference between fundy Jewish sects and fundy Christian sects, practically speaking. The Hasidic sects are patriarchal, authoritarian, anti-women’s rights, anti-progressive, unwilling to go to work to earn a living. The leaders want to be paid for being leaders and holding their members back from society at large, as opposed to going to college to learn things which lead to a well-paying career. They spend all their time and energy learning how to twist their holy documents into supporting their rule and dominion over their communities.

    This sounds exactly like the leaders of prosperity gospel churches, except they have less of a supposedly intellectual heritage of studying theology. They learn enough to preach their twisted interpretation of the New Testament, overlaid with most of the hate-filled parts of the Old Testament, as opposed to learning enough detail about the Torah, the commentaries, and Old Testament to shut up anyone who disagrees with their Hasidic interpretation.

    When you scratch a fundy, there’s always the same evil authoritarian froth inside. Including the ISIS Muslim fundys. Probably the same with fundys in India, I’m less acquainted with that strain of religious evil.

    And I’m not saying that all religious people are evil, you can tell the evil by their hateful actions, and the good by their helpful actions as well. Often you can tell from their facial expressions, but you can always tell, eventually.

  292. 292
    Cermet says:

    Well, the first open thread for the long weekend, I said one of my activities was to convert my deadly 60 kV power supply into a fairly safe 120 kV supply; well, the good news was I managed to get it to run at 100 kV (without being under oil, corona discharge kills the voltage capability.) The bad news, I used only my high capacity capacitors and diodes so it still is a lethal supply – the hardware for the smaller, safer parts was too difficult to install. Still, have to build a larger oil tank but when that is done, I should (hope) get the full 120 kV. I did add in a safety capacitor bleed resistor array system. That should make this supply a lot safer.

    If it works, I may, in a few months, test my deuterium nuclear particle accelerator. That device is to give me selective neutron energies (by activating ultra tiny quantities of various elements) – unlike my tiny fusion reactor (a electro-static fusor.)

    My back den has some really interesting high voltage and nuclear equipment; my garage has an array of furnaces and rolling mills where I do special armor made of metal/ceramic composites. Have a huge Van da Graaff, too.

  293. 293
    J R in WV says:


    I think religion attracts people who are unbalanced to some degree, and seek guidance to balance their lives. Many of them select unbalanced religions, which encourage those unbalanced people to go and do horrible things.

    Which came first, the religion or the unbalanced evil tendencies?

    Hard to say.

  294. 294
    J R in WV says:


    Come on, Helen, you know the English just wanted to save the Irish people from their Irish overlords! They had the best interests of the rural farm Irish at heart, all the time.


    The English upper class has never had the best interests of anyone at heart, other than each one’s individual advantage over all the other people in the world! Ever!!

  295. 295

    @Brachiator: My family is good friends with one Sayajirao’s descendants.

  296. 296
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Cermet: So, word is out…You’re Tony Stark?!

  297. 297
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat: My family is good friends with one Sayajirao’s descendants.

    Very interesting.

  298. 298
    Bill Arnold says:

    In my book, you’ve won the thread.
    Can’t get away with that sort of thing in my house. (But do have some serious less-spectacular tech improv.)
    Be safe!!!

  299. 299
    J R in WV says:


    I didn’t get much fire fighting training in Boot camp in spring of 1970. I was eventually sent to Charleston SC naval base where I spent 2 weeks straight fighting fires. We took turns who had the big hose nozzle, who had the long fog nozzle, who bucked the hoses forward for the nozzle men. We were all men in the 1970s.

    I was amazed how big a fire you could put down with a 50 pound Ansul fire extinguisher, or even smaller ones. I was repairing copper hot water heat lines one winter and managed to set my utility room on fire. Picked up the biggest extinguisher, nothing, the second largest, one little spurt. The last one was glovebox sized, fully capable, put out the ceiling and wall, then cardboard boxes full of parts on the top shelf.

    Now I have multiple large extinguishers with metal valves, which I learned is important for the charge to last.

    I never had to fight a fire shipboard, knew how, learned that you don’t ever want to fight one ever! Never. There was a small fire way down under decks – probably in a drive shaft bearing, the damage control team for that region of the ship put it down with little trouble, no one injured.

    During my training I was told about magnesium flares, dropped with parachutes to shed light upon a night battlefield. Interestingly, water cannot put those fires out, and they can melt through a steel deck in very little time, eventually burning a hole in the bottom hull of a ship.

    On the Forrestal several of these flares caught fire on the flight deck. Damage control officers sent men to compartments several decks below the burning flares, which were long bars of burning metal. They emptied their target compartments of burnable material, and brought in several feet of sand, which would smother the burning flares as they sank into the sand. That was the theory, anyway, and if it hadn’t worked out, the Forrestal would have had real problems.

    I see that there is video of attempts to fight that fire on the flight deck, when the first bomb went off 1:32 into the fire I had to stop; I can’t watch it. There were 134 dead and
    161 injured in that fire, much of the loss was because of old and improperly stored 1000-pound bombs that the ordinance men wanted to jettison immediately rather than trying to fly missions with them.

    We were very lucky that ship didn’t go down. I never even saw a bird farm while in service, our ordinance was mostly torpedoes. Lots of them.

  300. 300
    Ruckus says:


    Have a huge Van da Graaff, too.

    I thought the band was normal sized.

  301. 301
    Ruckus says:

    @J R in WV:
    Boot camp early winter 70, in San Diego. A year in school then to Charleston assigned to DDG-18. Left there in Jan 73. We had a couple of fires at sea in the North Atlantic, both vent fans overheated and when shut down were out. I was off DC party by then, having made senior rank on board in my rate, to second class IC. They let me run the shop rather than DC. As I understand it a lot changed from the Forrestal disaster as far as munitions handling and fire fighting. And in today’s navy the captain seems to be held to a higher standard than does the ship move, will it sink before it gets on station? I’d say that is a good thing.
    In my machine shop, every year the LAFD would do an inspection. Their only real question was, “Do you machine magnesium?” The relieved look on their faces when told emphatically no was almost funny.

Comments are closed.