Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We need fewer warriors in public service and more gardeners.

I’m going back to the respite thread.

Trump is going to draw a dick on that dog with a sharpie, isn’t he?

Wetsuit optional.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Hot air and ill-informed banter

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

How has Obama failed you today?

Historically it is a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Verified, but limited!

The willow is too close to the house.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

Mission Accomplished!

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

You are either for trump or for democracy. Pick one.

Militantly superior in their own minds…

What fresh hell is this?

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Fuck if i know. i just get yelled at when i try it.

Tick tock motherfuckers! Tick fucking tock!

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Hail to the Hairpiece / Sportsball Open Thread: Speaking of ‘Very Fine People’…

Sportsball Open Thread: Speaking of ‘Very Fine People’…

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Granpa Smallgloves seems to be sundowning again — and he wants some company out in the mental twilight…

… Trump also discussed at Friday’s rally the league’s television ratings, saying they are down “massively,” and partially claiming credit for the drop.

“Now the No. 1 reason happens to be, they like watching what’s happening with yours truly,” he said. He also added that the amount of big hits called as penalties are a factor as well.

“Today, if you hit too hard, 15 yards, throw him out of the game,” he said while mimicking the act of an official throwing a penalty flag. “They’re ruining the game, right? They’re ruining the game. It’s hurting the game.”

Trump’s comments on how the game is being ruined by an attempt to cut down on big hits came a day after former New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez was diagnosed posthumously with the second-most-severe form of chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE). Hernandez committed suicide in April while serving a life sentence for murder…

(Which is not to excuse Hernandez’ behavior, but: Trump has a real gift for timing his statements, no?)

Reader Interactions

230Comments

  2. 2.

    Amaranthine RBG

    “Today, if you hit too hard, 15 yards, throw him out of the game,” he said while mimicking the act of an official throwing a penalty flag. “They’re ruining the game, right? They’re ruining the game. It’s hurting the game.”

    It isn’ surprising that Trump is a big fan of smash-mouth football.

    Only barbaric assholes watch and support football. It kills people. It destroys lives. It’s pretty much inseparable from rape culture.

    All for entertainment.

    Pathetic.

  3. 3.

    JPL

    Before 2009 they stayed in the locker room. The NFL accepted money to promote the military, and then they came out beforehand. Today the Steelers are returning to the good old days, and will not come out until after the anthem.

  4. 4.

    Roger Moore

    Trump is only consistently loyal to white supremacists and Putin

    Putin is a white supremacist.

  5. 5.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Tom: Have they fled the Tower of London? If so, according to legend, the United Kingdom is in direst peril!
    https://www.hrp.org.uk/tower-of-london/explore/the-ravens/

    Legend of the ravens

    Legend says that the kingdom and the Tower will fall if the six resident ravens ever leave the fortress. According to the stories, it was Charles II who first insisted that the ravens of the Tower should be protected.

  7. 7.

    JPL

    While defending the players, Terry Bradshaw said he is going to disagree with the most popular man in America. Has he not seen Trump’s polls? wtf

  8. 8.

    hellslittlestangel

    I can’t believe The Orange Better One has actually turned me into a sports fan. May every single team have a winning season! Go football guys!

  11. 11.

    Kathleen

    I haven’t seen any statement from Cincinnati Bengals about what they will do during Anthem in Green Bay.

  13. 13.

    Adam L Silverman

    @O. Felix Culpa: Just one, Evgeni Malkin, on the Penguins roster. He was born in the USSR. In the NHL overall Russian born players they make up about 3 percent of players overall.

  16. 16.

    Hal

    Courtesy of a co-worker on Facebook, the dumbest post I’ve seen all weekend.

    Remember that time an NHL player refused to stand for the national anthem?

    Just kidding, it doesn’t happen because hockey players aren’t whiny pussies.

  19. 19.

    japa21

    As I mentioned on the previous thread, to me, the players aren’t taking a knee out of disrespect for the flag or country, but because they respect and love the country and the values the flag is supposed to represent. To them, what they see happening in this country, the shootings and so many other things, is what they see as disrespecting the country and those values. But by making it an issue related to not respecting the flag, Trump is able to avoid talking about the real issues.

    I don’t know where the video is, but I see to remember a video of Trump just kind of dancing around, almost like he had to go to the bathroom, during the playing of the Anthem. To me, that was far more disrespectful.

  21. 21.

    Ian G.

    @Hal:

    Most NHL players are Canadian or European, i.e. from countries that this mouth-breather would probably consider wimpy. Hell, they all have universal healthcare!

  25. 25.

    scottinnj

    The owner of the Jaguars (also the only Muslim owner of a major sports team in the US) locked arms with the players on Sunday in London. This is a guy who gave $1m to Trump’s inaugural committee.

    Aaron Rogers posted a kneel on Instragram, which was supported by Tom Brady. If we saw, say, Rogers/Brady/Manning take the knee that would be intersting.

  26. 26.

    JPL

    @JPL: Bradshaw said powerful, not popular.. He’s the quote in full

    “It’s hard to believe I’m going to say something about the most powerful man in the greatest country of the world,” Bradshaw began. “I was somewhat surprised that the president came out attacking NFL players for them exercising the freedom of speech.”
    He continued, “While I don’t condone the protest during our national anthem, this is America. If our country stands for anything, folks, what, it’s freedom. people die for that freedom. I’m not sure if our president understands those rights, that every American has the right to speak out and also to protest.”

    Phew, I feel better.

  27. 27.

    different-church-lady

    @japa21: It would be brilliant if one of them said, “I hope this is temporary. I want to stand for the Anthem again some day.”

  28. 28.

    Ian G.

    It’s also amusing to me that the apparent most important issue on earth right now is the kind of thing moron callers to sports talk radio blather about on a daily basis.

    Maybe Shitgibbon will next propose that the Mets trade Wilmer Flores for Mike Trout.

  30. 30.

    raven

    Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shahid Khan joined dozens of football players in a silent demonstration during the national anthem in London on Sunday.

    Khan, who donated $1 million to President Trump’s inauguration committee, linked arms with his players Marcedes Lewis and Telvin Smith at Wembley Stadium as an estimated 27 others took a knee on the field.

  33. 33.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Mary G: @different-church-lady: I saw Cruz on a clip on MSNBC, he didn’t seem like a firm ‘no’, something like “they don’t have my vote at this point”, but he’s definitely trolling the bill, and he says he doesn’t think they have Mike Lee nailed down. Collins and Murkowski could calm the waters even by saying they won’t vote until a full CBO score is announced.

  36. 36.

    smintheus

    @Hal: Somebody who doesn’t play hockey. You never kneel on the ice, unless you’re trying to get up from a dirty hit.

  37. 37.

    scottinnj

    @Oatler.: Garfunkle & Oates are amazing. I especially enjoyed “Pregnant Women Are Smug”.

    And the other great sport song belongs to national treasure Weird Al “Sports Song”

    Your sports team is vastly inferior
    That simple fact is plainly obvious to see
    We’re gonna kick your collective posterior
    Of course you realize we’re speaking figuratively
    Our stats are thoroughly impressive
    Our coach really has the Midas touch
    Our players are fast and strong and brave
    And your guys, eh, not so much

  40. 40.

    dmsilev

    @Mary G:

    Twitter says Ted Cruz has announced that he will vote no on Graham-Cassidy.

    Presumably because, like Rand Paul, he thinks it’s not evil enough.

  41. 41.

    Mike in NC

    Fucking short-fingered vulgarian and his obsession about meaningless TV ratings. Worthless dipshit.

  46. 46.

    J R in WV

    I’m having some trouble with my football habits. What with people having CTE and violence breaking out during football games, I’m not sure how to deal. I tried to watch some NCAA fotball yesterday, hoping to see Michigan State beat Notre Dame, nope. My team (WVU) wasn’t on TV beating Kansas, but they did the job and won their game.

    Should I be happy? The players seem to enjoy playing the game, there’s lots of physical grace at time, they get paid either in $$ or a chance at an education… Do the many players who end their football careers after fulfilling their NCAA careers also have CTE issues? Who knows…

    So, I dunno. I feel different about it now, that for sure. If it wasn’t nearly 90 here I would go work on the tractor instead… waiting for a cool down in the weather for wrenching and mowing.

  49. 49.

    Brachiator

    @JPL:

    Today the Steelers are returning to the good old days, and will not come out until after the anthem.

    Good for them. Maybe other teams should consider this as well.

    Of course, the teams could consider eliminating the playing of the anthem entirely. Doesn’t it cheapen the patriotism that dopes feel so hot about by linking it to football or other sports?

    …

  51. 51.

    Shalimar

    @Hal: That was not a smart comment to post to Facebook where everyone could see. If he has friends like the people I grew up with, Whiny Pussy will be the commenter’s nickname from now on.

  52. 52.

    SenyorDave

    @Jeffro: Lesean McCoy on Twitter: it’s sad man…the president is an asshole.

    Excellent understanding of Ocam’s Razor on the part of Lesean McCoy!

  57. 57.

    efgoldman

    @Brachiator:

    teams could consider eliminating the playing of the anthem entirely. Doesn’t it cheapen the patriotism

    It might be part of the pregame package for which the DoD pays the teams.

  58. 58.

    Corner Stone

    @Baud: She’s clearly a neoliberal sellout socioanarchist. If she were a neoliberal communofascist then she would not have cared who was at the door.

  59. 59.

    rikyrah

    Peter Daou‏Verified account @peterdaou

    Hypocrisy is GOP pundits lecturing about patriotism after they surrendered to Russia, stole a SCOTUS seat, and coddled neo-Nazis. #TakeAKnee
    7:30 AM – 24 Sep 2017

  61. 61.

    Ohio Mom

    @Corner Stone: I believe that every small, voiced doubt — no matter what the motivation — helps to build the momentum needed to kill GC.

    It is a very weird, uncomfortable feeling for me to think a good thought about Ted Cruz but given the circumstances, it is only fair.

  63. 63.

    Corner Stone

    @Mary G: I wonder how he thinks a bill that bribes Murkowski, somehow appeases Collins and also gets/keeps Rand Paul, Mike Lee and Cruz? And as there can be no regular order is Johnny Maverick still on the sideline?

  69. 69.

    Corner Stone

    @Baud: I think McCain is grudge fucking the entire GOP at this point in his career. He’s always been a mean, spiteful little man. Now they get a good taste of it.

  70. 70.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @khead: Who are you friends with of FB? My feed is devoid of anyone going nuts about it. I have one person who says that she would boycott the NFL for being racist if she weren’t already boycotting it it for being sexist. Oddly, I really suspect that she is someone who was never interested in it in the first place, so I am not sure it is really a boycott.

  71. 71.

    Corner Stone

    I’m glad the Texans got points on the board but you’re not going to beat the Pats at home by kicking field goals.

  73. 73.

    rikyrah

    #BlackoutNFL‏ @UnitedBlackout

    “The answer to injustice is not to silence the critic but to end the injustice” Paul Robeson. #TakeTheKnee

  75. 75.

    Baud

    @Corner Stone: I know I can’t relate to Republicans but I can’t understand why he would do anything else at this point of his life. They really have treated him like crap.

  76. 76.

    rikyrah

    Hillary Clinton‏Verified account @HillaryClinton

    Hillary Clinton Retweeted Samy Nemir Olivares

    President Trump, Sec. Mattis, and DOD should send the Navy, including the USNS Comfort, to Puerto Rico now. These are American citizens.

  79. 79.

    JanieM

    @JPL:

    Before 2009 they stayed in the locker room. The NFL accepted money to promote the military, and then they came out beforehand. Today the Steelers are returning to the good old days, and will not come out until after the anthem.

    @debbie:

    Good for Pittsburgh. I hope all the teams follow suit.

    At this point that seems to be a convenient way to silence the protest more than anything else. Or am I missing something? (Not being snarky.)

    ETA: answered my own question below. It was apparently the players’ choice….

  80. 80.

    Brachiator

    @Omnes Omnibus: The ESPN piece is interesting. Ultimately, the anthem’s link to baseball was a 7th inning stretch fluke. The expansion to other sports has nothing to do with any mystical links between sports and patriotism, but just to the odd and arbitrary way that stuff gets connected to culture.

    And I will bet you that most people don’t know that the anthem only became official in 1931, but was hummed by Washington and Jefferson.

  84. 84.

    JanieM

    Answering my own question:

    The Pittsburgh Steelers even announced ahead of their match-up with the Chicago Bears that they would not leave their locker room for the national anthem, and they made good on that promise.

    From an nbcnews.com article.

    Okay, if it’s the players’ choice, then I’m all for it.

  88. 88.

    Brachiator

    @efgoldman:

    .It might be part of the pregame package for which the DoD pays the teams.

    Yeah, good point. I wonder how much the NFL gets for this.

  90. 90.

    rikyrah

    Luisa Haynes‏ @wokeluisa

    Trying to figure out how #TakeAKnee is un-American but letting people die because of lack of health insurance is patriotic
    10:51 AM – 23 Sep 2017

  91. 91.

    Petorado

    Meanwhile, Steve Zona — head of the local police union — took to Twitter Sunday to suggest cessation of police escorts of teams to NFL games:

    “Is the NFL special? Fans make it there fine without escorts. Let’s stop this dangerous practice.”

    The protesting NFL players have given this nation a huge gift as even white citizens can catch a glimpse of the side of the police that they experience. To hear police unions openly talk about how they will arbitrarily and capriciously enforce laws and public safety depending on how they view certain segments of the public is eye opening. Who the heck are these people?

  92. 92.

    Brachiator

    @rikyrah:

    .. Now this is quality journalism! @JoyAnnReid fact checks conservative commentator about Obamacare and corrects her on live TV.

    I wish that just one time, host would say, “You’re wrong, and don’t know what you’re talking about,” and dump a lying guest from the program.

  93. 93.

    Brachiator

    @Petorado:

    To hear police unions openly talk about how they will arbitrarily and capriciously enforce laws and public safety depending on how they view certain segments of the public is eye opening. Who the heck are these people?

    Trump supporters.

  94. 94.

    Amir Khalid

    @Mary G:
    There will be no time at all to scrutinise a new bill, if Cassidy does indeed have one. He will be asking his Congressional colleagues to vote for it sight unseen. The Republicans might go for it, but I expect the Democrats will raise one hell of a stink. I doubt this will fly.

  96. 96.

    Sherparick

    @J R in WV: it would be interesting to do a random sample of American males as we kick the bucket. Stuff happens in an active life. I played youth tackle football, but do not remember having my bell ring once. Not so lucky when walking/ running my puppy while looking at her & not where I was going. Also concussions in high school soccer, skiing, rugby, & bicycle crashes. We really don’t know the risk of playing the lower levels of football until compared with non-high school & college football.

  97. 97.

    Petorado

    @Baud: Assuming its to help navigate through traffic but possibly also to prevent acts of vandalism and violence as team busses roll past opposing team fans.

  98. 98.

    Amir Khalid

    @Brachiator:
    I remember reading that Ripley’s Believe It or Not! pointed out the omission in 1930, in one of its daily strips, to widespread disbelief. And only then was the Star Spangled Banner made the official national anthem. I have no idea if that’s actually true. Sounds crazy.

  99. 99.

    sdhays

    @Baud: Other than the obvious other low point in his life, I have to imagine that having to endorse and run on the same ticket as Donald Trump to survive his primary and win reelection last year after what Donald Trump said about him has got to have been one of the most humiliating experiences of his life. Donald Trump owned him McCain in 2015; he exited that encounter a greatly diminished victim. It’s disgusting that it worked out that way, but that’s what you get when the deplorables are your base.

  100. 100.

    dmsilev

    @Amir Khalid: It’s worse than that. The reconciliation rules say that you need at least a bare-bones CBO score to verify the predicted impact on the deficit. If the CBO has to start from scratch 3 days before the end of the month, that’s not going to happen. So, either a bluff or yet another rule that they plan to trample over.

  101. 101.

    gene108

    @rikyrah:

    I saw that this morning. Really not that hard. Though I think it helped Joy had one Republican versus three not-Republicans on the set, so it sort of isolated the Republican.

  102. 102.

    Mary G

    Oh God, now somebody shot up a church in Nashville and it’s a “mass casualty event” per the PD.

  104. 104.

    Gravenstone

    @Mary G: Probably because it’s not regressive and damaging enough. Still, an insurance No for Rand Paul’s weathervane vote is always welcome.

  105. 105.

    Roger Moore

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Oddly, I really suspect that she is someone who was never interested in it in the first place, so I am not sure it is really a boycott.

    I’m sure refusing to buy something you had no intention of getting in the first place is by far the most common form of boycott. You get all the self-righteousness and none of the pain.

  109. 109.

    gene108

    @gene108:

    Joy also,made a point, which I wish more people would make, “when have premiums not gone up?”.

    It’s not like there was this huge spike in premiums after Obamacare. Premiums have been going up for decades.

  111. 111.

    Duane

    Trump has given license to the racists to finally say in public what they thought for decades: too many ni&&gers in sports.
    Now that the players won’t shut up, perform for them, and be happy with their lot in life, they(and Trump) can’t stand it.

  113. 113.

    James Powell

    @gene108:

    Joy also,made a point, which I wish more people would make, “when have premiums not gone up?”

    This is one of those things that drove me crazy about Obamacare coverage, the president’s and the Democrats’ failure to defend it, and the press/media’s refusal to do anything but provide a platform for Republican rage.

    Everything that happened after Obamacare passed, even before it took effect, was treated as if it was because of Obamacare and as if it would not have happened but for Obamacare and as if it had never happened before.

  114. 114.

    WaterGirl

    I had assumed that this was a black church, but I haven’t been able to verify that one way or another. Do we know?

  116. 116.

    Kay

    @LindseyGrahamSC on him, RonJohn: “We’re not going to vote for a budget resolution that doesn’t allow the health care debate to continue.”

    That’s great though. They can try to “repeal Obamacare” over and over, forever. Lindsey Graham is leading them around in circles.

    They just figured out why “preexisting conditions” is so hard. This could take decades. Keep the assholes busy and out of trouble.

  119. 119.

    PAM Dirac

    @Duane: Right, but what is going to happen when they realize that there isn’t a damn thing the shitgibbon can do to put those people back in their place? I assume that in their minds racism can’t fail, it can only be failed, but is that failure going to be pinned on the shitgibbon?

  120. 120.

    debbie

    @WaterGirl:

    I can’t tell from what I’ve read. However, all but one of the wounded are over 60 years old. Takes a special kind of courage to shoot old folks.

  122. 122.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    It is a good post:

    but the white vote has been reliably Republican at about the same level for three decades.² The deplorables who voted for Trump all voted for Bush and McCain and Romney too.

    My husband was shocked when I told him this- he’s sort of a disinterested Democrat- doesn’t pay that much attention. I think people don’t really understand what a fragile coalition it is- how each group has to come out in each region or group of states for Democrats to win nationally. There’s a couple of ways to solve the puzzle but not many.

  123. 123.

    JGabriel

    WaPo via Anne Laurie @ Top:

    “Today, if you hit too hard, 15 yards, throw him out of the game,” he said while mimicking the act of an official throwing a penalty flag. “They’re ruining the game, right? They’re ruining the game. It’s hurting the game.”

    Trump’s comments on how the game is being ruined by an attempt to cut down on big hits came a day after former New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez was diagnosed posthumously with the second-most-severe form of chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE).

    Donald Trump – Objectively Pro-CTE

  124. 124.

    Kay

    @JGabriel:

    In a lot of ways I find that more reprehensible than his comments on political speech. It’s so fucking selfish. Someone else should bash their head in and do permanent brain damage for my “fun”.

    He’s a horrible human being. No matter the issue he manages to set a new low.

  126. 126.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    I think people don’t really understand what a fragile coalition it is

    I think this is the main source of the resentment of what is in fact a small number of people who oppose us from the left. It doesn’t take much to throw us off kilter, with devastating consequences.

    Also, I hope we can bury the argument that any other nominee would have easily won by 20 million votes.

  127. 127.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @PAM Dirac:

    is that failure going to be pinned on the shitgibbon?

    Strongly unlikely. They hear the same reports about the ICE’s brutality that we do, and they love it. Trump is delivering better than any politician they’ve ever had. More likely he will have been failed by others.

    @Kay:
    We need to accept that the majority of white voters are single issue racism voters. They may be loudly obvious or politely dog-whistly about it, but they will vote for racism over every other issue, period. Republicanism has and will continue to provide them with the best racism they will get. We can only attend to our side, and try to motivate the normally disinterested. Hopefully the GOP has been forcing that latter to happen. There are signs of it, but since it’s never happened, who knows what it would look like?

  128. 128.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    “Today, if you hit too hard, 15 yards, throw him out of the game,” he said while mimicking the act of an official throwing a penalty flag. “They’re ruining the game, right? They’re ruining the game. It’s hurting the game.”

    Ya, ya Lord Dainty Hands ever did anything sports like his life. You first Donny.

  130. 130.

    Fair Economist

    @Sherparick: CTE is nearly universal in pro football players and reasonably common even at the high school level. It’s not just concussions; we don’t know what exactly causes it.. It’s just not responsible to expose young children to a severe and poorly understood risk.

  131. 131.

    J R in WV

    @khead:

    The player who came out is a famous Latino graduate of West Point, who held his helmet in one hand with the other hand over his heart, as trained in his successful military career. I’m not going to butcher the speling (sic) of his name, everyone should know who I’m talking about.

  133. 133.

    John Fremont

    @Kay: Those same NFL players ,later in life, will be denied health insurance coverage for pre existing conditions or charged out the wazoo if the GOP gets their way in Congress.

  136. 136.

    Amir Khalid

    @rikyrah:
    I don’t know how seriously I should take a story that includes Nikki Haley in a group of “obviously decent, highly capable people”. I’m not convinced there really is anyone like that in the Trump administration.

  138. 138.

    rikyrah

    Jake Tapper‏Verified account @jaketapper

    Those saying Graham-Cassidy is dead — I don’t see it. POTUS, WH, McConnell pulling out all the stops behind the scenes.
    7:50 AM – 23 Sep 2017

  141. 141.

    FlipYrWhig

    @rikyrah: But does anyone care anymore if McConnell or Trump look ineffectual and stupid? Why knock yourself out doing those two numbnuts a favor?

  142. 142.

    efgoldman

    I’m not watching the shows and I don’t plan to, but CBS is going full jingo promoting the shit out of their two Navy Seals programs.

  143. 143.

    J R in WV

    @Sherparick:

    I had at least one concussion as a child, knocked cold when my cousin threw a rock into a giant construction mudhole, got me instead, we were like 5.

    Had two serious concussions while serving in the USN, once when someone dropped a deck grinder on my head while we were working over the side cleaning up the hull of the ship. I bounced between the cargo net and the hull, somehow managed to get tangled in the net before I went into the drink. Shattered the hard hat I was wearing. Probably deliberate.

    Second one I was hit by a sports car while on a bike, T-boned in my left leg, split my scalp open on the car’s hood, later on they caught a small bone broken in my neck. No pain killers, wife to wake my up every hour to look at my pupils. Docs were shocked there was no skull fracture.

    Most recently was passenger in an F-350 that rolled on I-25, remember the truck leaving the ground, do not remember landing on the wheels. Not as bad as getting hit by the car back in 1972. EMTs were at the truck in something like 2 minutes, they were driving up to ski and saw the accident, didn’t call me out as concussed, but I was ditzy for the next month.

    So if I get drifty in my older age, (should I say driftier?) there’s a good reason there somewhere.

    If you were active during your life, chances are you have been hit in the head a couple of times. Football players, on the other hand, every weekend, some of them.

  149. 149.

    gene108

    @James Powell:

    the president’s and the Democrats’ failure to defend it

    It is hard to defend something that does not exist. Yes, they passed Obamacare in 2010, but the law still had four years to go befor going fully into effect.

    So the opposition says your law will destroy America and create cause millions of lost jobs, but what can you do to defend against such baseless speculation?

    Look at the crap Obama got for saying you can keep your doctor, when insurers started canceling policies that were non-compliant, instead of letting them be grandfathered.

    I just think the Democrats were in a no win situation, because our media are tools of the Republicans. A rational media response, in 2014, would have been, “Republicans promised us, when Obamacare went fully into effect we’d see a recession, but the economy continues to grow. Why were you and other Republicans so wrong about this law?”

    But all the Republican lies about Obamacare destroying the economy have been conviently forgotten by the media. The first repeal bill, in the House, was entitled ” Repealing the Job Killing Healthcare Law Act”. Republicans weren’t keeping it secret that they promised economic ruin via Obamacare and were totally wrong.

  151. 151.

    NotMax

    @efgoldman

    Ditto on both not watching and don’t plan to. Also expect there will NOT be any underwear companies buying time on the shows.    :)

  153. 153.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Mary G:

    Cassidy is now saying he’s going to introduce a whole new bill tomorrow. Hail Mary pass?

    Jesus Christ, all these senators are giving coy hints that they don’t actually want to repeal Obamacare right now, and they aren’t picking up on it, like the old guy at the gay bar at 2am.

  162. 162.

    Redshift

    I’ve noticed that a lot of conservatives who want to be seen as “thoughtful” (like Sasse and Rich Lowrey) are concern trolling hard on the idea that “really, most Americans see this as disrespecting the flag, so it getting more publicity is not good for the protesters.” I take that to mean they know this isn’t going well for them.

    I also ran across a mention that “a poll showed” that 72% of Americans believe that (which looked like obvious cherry-picking.) I couldn’t find that poll, but apparently ESPN published an article about a poll purportedly showing that Kaepernick was the reason for declining NFL ratings. And then they got widely trashed by other news outlets, because the poll also had a higher percentage of people who said they watched the NFL more, so it didn’t even match reality, and the Kaepernick connection was most likely just because it offered that as a choice.

  167. 167.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Baud:
    And nobody in congress gives two shits what anyone in the White House thinks, especially Trump. Trump could lose them votes, even. I thought McConnell told Graham he’d have to whip the votes himself, but McConnell certainly wants the ACA repealed, and wants it badly. Nothing he says can ever be trusted.

    Again, not dead until the clock runs out.

  169. 169.

    marcopolo

    @MoxieM: Yeah, I’m hoping for a German election thread in the next few hours. I don’t think we should be celebrating too wildly.

    My understanding is Merkel won but by a much smaller margin than anyone was expecting and that the far right party way outperformed and will now have seats in the government for the first time in a couple generations (like 1960). The piece I read said that of the folks voting for the far right only 20-30% actually liked their policies whereas 60ish% said they were unhappy with the performance of the current center right government.

    Anyways, Adam, Betty, Anne, John, someone want to set up a foreign elections thread pretty please.

  172. 172.

    Corner Stone

    PB&J was a staple as a child, yoot and broke ass young adult. It’s not something I work into my rotation these days but if I’m too tired to make anything it gets me through until morning sometimes.
    Granting no allergies involved, I just don’t understand anyone who does not enjoy a Reese’s as a snack once in a while.

  174. 174.

    bemused

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Finns have not forgotten the Soviet-Finnish Winter War. That’s an amazing story about Finns courage and sisu.

    Sadly, there are descendants of Finnish immigrants in MN, large Finnish migration to the northern part of MN that are wingnuts, union and environmentalist haters. Their ancestors must be rolling in their graves.

  175. 175.

    Hal

    Clint Smith @ClintSmithIII
    Saying you want players to protest but not in ways you don’t like reflects a deep, ahistorical misconception of what protests are meant for.
    12:23 PM · Sep 24, 2017

    Clint Smith @ClintSmithIII

    Replying to @ClintSmithIII
    Protests are almost never popular when they’re actually happening. That’s…the point. They’re meant to illuminate injustice ppl fail to see

  176. 176.

    Mary G

    Now Rand Paul is saying he’ll vote for GCHJ if they cut the block grants in half. I’m surprised they’ve even been able to name post offices. I will be calling, faxing, and writing until midnight on Sept. 30.

  178. 178.

    Aleta

    Show me what a traitor looks like … Trump is what a traitor looks like. Show me what a traitor looks like … Bannon’s what a traitor looks like. Show me what a traitor looks like … Mnuchin’s what a traitor looks like. Show me what a traitor looks like … Kobach’s what a traitor looks like. Show me what a traitor looks like … Kochs are what traitosr look like. Show me what a traitor looks like … Mercers are what traitors look like….

  181. 181.

    efgoldman

    I thought they were reducing commercials around changes of possession. Sure doesn’t seem likeit.

  182. 182.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Mary G:
    Cut them in half? That will lose someone else. Maybe multiple someone elses. The whole ‘But we’re not cutting Medicaid, just making it more efficient!’ goes flying out the window.

    ADDENDUM – I was told that they can’t vote on reconciliation if there isn’t a CBO score on budget impact. Cuts that big would probably require a new one, and there isn’t time. I don’t know if that’s actually true.

  183. 183.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Mary G:

    if they cut the block grants in half

    I don’t see how that helps with getting Collins and Murkowski, and McCain is already a no on process grounds. Probably a CYA move by looking willing to vote yes if something impossible happens.

    @Baud: the French left has not been awesome of late anyway.

  188. 188.

    MoxieM

    @marcopolo: totes. It’s not exactly Ausgezeichnet! in my (USian house, but at least a sigh of relief). I’m interested in informed commentariat.

    Guardian suggests (on basis of I dunno) a coalition of CSD, the LibDems (a pro business party–sounds kind of Emmanuel Macron-ish to me but??) and Greens as the governing coalition.

    My grown-ass daughter lives there, but besides loathing the odious right wingers (she got an AfD spam ad at work the other other day–yeesh), not too into it.

  192. 192.

    MoxieM

    @Baud: Conservative wolves in middle-way Frenchie tailoring, though. Cute, in a Bankster sort of way. But their home-grown Fascists lost out, le big-time.

  193. 193.

    trollhattan

    @schrodingers_cat:
    Peanuts = possible death to me and I’m relieved to no longer have to make the kid’s PBJs, given the responses triggered by the odor. One doesn’t know how many foods contain peanut until they have to be 100% avoided.

  199. 199.

    MoxieM

    @bemused: Also…Fitchburg MA, aka, Plastic City! very Finnish.

    To be fair, I think there is probably more meth manufactured there now, than plastics. It’s one of those small to mid-sized dying-revived-dying-revived east coast industrial towns that Joe Biden would just love.

    Also the home of Johnny Appleseed, but hey whynot?

  204. 204.

    ThresherK

    @O. Felix Culpa: Loved your point about Finns.

    Re big-time hockey countries whose players’ ancestors don’t trust Moscow? There is a bit of a list, certainly including at least Czechs, Latvians, Slovaks, Slovenes, Croats, and Belarussians.

  206. 206.

    trollhattan

    @germy:
    It works. Friends took their youngest to Stanford for treatment starting when he was about four, and he’s now able to eat peanut products when he’d violently reacted before. IIUC tackling it while the immune system is developing is a key to success.

  207. 207.

    germy

    @trollhattan: I don’t trust the vitamin supplements I see on my grocery store shelf. That goes for the bottled probiotics.

    I’ve been drinking kefir, and its probiotics have helped with some digestive issues I was having.

  213. 213.

    Fair Economist

    @trollhattan:

    Peanuts = possible death to me and I’m relieved to no longer have to make the kid’s PBJs, given the responses triggered by the odor. One doesn’t know how many foods contain peanut until they have to be 100% avoided.

    Have you considered desensitization therapy? It seems pretty effective. Not that peanuts are a “must-eat” food, but as you say they are everywhere and it’s a dangerous allergy.

  214. 214.

    Mike J

    @Doug R: Glad to see that. Coach is great at football, but his go to position on anything else is “let’s stay positive”. Which means no talking about anything that upsets people. Glads to see the owner and president understand better than Pete does.

  215. 215.

    trollhattan

    @germy:
    Probiotics is a squishy term badly misused by the unregulated supplements industry. The science of GI flora is fascinating and worthy of research, especially in the age of antibiotic overuse. I think the peanut treatment is better described as progressive desensitization via carefully administered doses and monitored response.

  216. 216.

    Bess

    You folks have me hankering for a chunky peanut butter on Dave’s Killer Bread.

    Now the issue 2017 blackberry jam, 2016 cranberry jelly or Nutella…..

  217. 217.

    germy

    @trollhattan: An independent lab tested a variety of probiotic supplements and found that most brands contained little or nothing of what their labels advertised.

    Orrin Hatch has something to do with that, as does Harkin.

  218. 218.

    trollhattan

    @germy: @Fair Economist:
    Our friends are part of a pilot study and I’ll stay tuned to see whether it can be expanded to adults. For now the five-hour round trip would kill me even without the dosing.

  220. 220.

    J R in WV

    @germy:

    I think that may have been the NY Attorney General’s investigation, followed by law suits against the specific “pro-biotic” vendors identified as selling something wholly different from what their labels claimed. They looked for DNA of the herbs and spices claimed to be included in the items for sale, and DIDN’T FIND ANY!!!

    When I quit using them for the most part. Now I only take a multi-vitamin and some specific vitamins our doctors have recommended … Vitamin D, Vitamin C, melatonin.

  221. 221.

    patrick II

    As usual, Trump uses race to distract. Big vote coming up this week, and we aren’t talking about that or the republican health plan’s negative numbers the republican want to distract us from until after the vote. Less people to call in to their congressmen, less pressure on Collins and Murkowski.

  224. 224.

    Patricia Kayden

    @patrick II: Can we not walk and chew gum at the same time? Plus, Senators have been getting calls from their angry constituents. Even without the calls, the bill’s awfulness should speak for itself. I have no difficulty talking about this latest Trump outrage towards Black protesters and the awful “health” bill coming up for a vote on Wednesday.

  225. 225.

    Jim Parish

    Trump’s comments on the sissification of football remind me of something more than a century ago. Football had grown increasingly violent, with maneuvers like the flying wedge and the human javelin. Finally, the President stepped in and demanded rules changes outlawing these plays.

    I’ll bet Trump would have called Theodore Roosevelt a wuss for doing this.

  228. 228.

    jl

    I did some reading a while back on the history of patriotic ceremonies and customs in US sports.
    Playing national anthem was originally done during games to capture crowds attention, for commercial announcements or get them to root for the home team.
    Sometimes they wouldn’t even play a whole stanza. Just enough to get the fans’ attention. IIRC it started with one of the Chicago major league baseball teams.

    Before WWI or WWII, baseball managers dressed sensibly, like they do in basketball and football. I think during WWI, they thought putting everyone in uniform would look more patriotic. Or maybe it was WWII. Anyway, that is reason you have the ridiculous sight of old managers, some of them with pot belies the size of weather balloons, wandering around in a player’s uniform.

    Patriotic stuff really got going after WWII, when Cold War ramped up, to keep people mindful of the godless commies.
    And now that we know big bucks were changing hands for most of the pro sports patriotic military salutes and ceremonies, maybe we should realize most of it is cynical BS, and get rid of it? IMHO.

  230. 230.

    JerryRich

    @jl: Actually, the captain of a baseball team, a player, originally made all the game decisions and of course was in uniform. When non-players became what we now call the manager, they continued the tradition of wearing the uniform (the rules do not specify what the manager must wear). Owner-managers like Connie Mack, who wore street clothes while managing, were the exception.

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