Wednesday Morning Open Thread: What Happened

I know some of you are already reading your copies of What Happened, because you’re Amazon Prime customers or Kindle readers or just motivated enough to have gotten to a book store already. (My copy, according to Amazon, won’t ship until Monday.)

Question: Is it worth doing a Book Club around this new memoir? The reviews so far — even the most grudging — have been favorable. But I’m half-dreading starting to read it myself, because I’ll get pissed off all over again at all the malign idiots and criminals who gave their collective tiny souls to install Anybody But Her in the White House…

************
Apart from trudging onward & upwards (if Hillary could weather that shitestorm, then by goddess so can we), what’s on the agenda for the day?
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205 replies
  1. 1
    Mary G says:

    I got the Kindle, but I also feel reluctant, because there will be rage. My resistance has been flagging, so I probably will start it tomorrow for reviving my energy.

  2. 2

    @Mary G: It’s a really good read, I’ve been reading it off and on since last night. Chris Hayes comment is pretty spot on.

  3. 3
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😐😐😐

  4. 4
    rikyrah says:

    I am going to buy the book in hard cover. But, I can’t read it just yet.

  5. 5
    opiejeanne says:

    I picked it up yesterday at my Big Bookstore, along with Katy Tur’s book which also came out yesterday. I haven’t started either yet, maybe later today, after I wake up.

    Hillary’s book was displayed fairly prominently and they had about ten on the rack at the front of the store. Then mr opiejeanne said he was interested in Katy Tur’s book so I asked a clerk if she could help me find it, and I had to spell both names for her and tell her the name of the book. I explained who Katy Tur is and mentioned the rally that the Secret Service had to escort her from because Trump had pointed her out and had the crowd ready to attack her. The clerk looked shocked. I asked if she hadn’t heard any of this and she said, “I don’t get involved with any of that.” I said, “Oh, you don’t vote?” “No, I vote.”

    She said it was only available as an ebook. By this point she was a bit frosty.

    The clerk at the front desk found it for me, said it was in stock. It was on a book cart that hadn’t been unloaded yet. They only had 4 in stock.

    I don’t get involved in any of that.

  6. 6
    satby says:

    @opiejeanne: meaning she voted stupid.

  7. 7
    satby says:

    @rikyrah: good morning ☕🌞!

  8. 8
    opiejeanne says:

    @satby: My husband thought she either voted for Trump or for Jill Stein, but she definitely voted stupid even if she voted for Hillary.

  9. 9
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    I’m not ready yet.

  10. 10
    satby says:

    I have to give Hillary Clinton major props as an incredibly strong woman. Much stronger than me, because had I been in her position I still wouldn’t have calmed down enough to put words to paper. Much less discuss it rationally. Greatest President we never had.

  11. 11
    Bruce K says:

    I’m not getting Hillary’s book only because I just can’t deal with its topic right now. Too much pain, too much rage, too much bone-deep fear for what’s still to come.

    I mean, it’s good the book is out. The book needs to be read and to be understood. I … just can’t be the one to do that now.

  12. 12
    satby says:

    @opiejeanne: it’s just sickening that in this country people act all self-righteous about being above politics, like knowing the details of what is involved is beneath them. That’s the lifeblood of the “both sides” statement, because it can only survive as a thought if you aren’t aware of the details of political debates and behavior of elected officials.

  13. 13
    opiejeanne says:

    @satby: I had trouble not being sharper with her than I was. My comment was not meant to absolve in case she was a JW, it was meant to cut. She looked to be about 35. I can’t deal with people who don’t bother to be informed. It drives me wild.

  14. 14
    opiejeanne says:

    @Bruce K: I’m going to find out if I’m strong enough. I thought I’d buy the book now so I’d have it even if this is too soon for me.

  15. 15
    J R in WV says:

    @rikyrah:

    Good Morning, rikyrah!!

    And to all the sleepy Jackals of the blog!!

    I find that it’s easier to get in a good early morning from our hotel, where I have a regular am insomnia on the Road!

    It’s still 4 am here…

  16. 16

    I’ve had my own theories on “What Happened”, and wanted Hillary’s take.

  17. 17
    Schlemazel says:

    @opiejeanne:
    5 will get you 10 she also believes that government does not listen to or represent her. Idiot indeed.

  18. 18
    bystander says:

    I would find the book too upsetting. I’d have to keep the nitro pills at hand, so no.

    I’m going to the Golden Theatre box office today to see if I can get tickets for the revival of Albee’s Three Tall Women. How many chances do you get to see Glenda Jackson on stage? Plus Laurie Metcalf! Anyway, hope they’re not charging a fortune, which seems to be the trend.

  19. 19
    MazeDancer says:

    While only at the beginning of “What Happened” – hardcover for posterity, local bookstore – Hillary is so open, honest, and real it is actually uplifting. Feels like talking to a friend. And it would be enjoyable to have a Book Club kind of chat about it with BJ online friends.

    Then, after the chat, we can all go over to Amazon to post 5 star reviews to combat the trolls.

  20. 20
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  21. 21
    Chyron HR says:

    Good morning and welcome of day 309 of people who didn’t vote for Clinton being angry at her for not winning.

  22. 22
    Baud says:

    Should I buy 20000 copies of Hillary’s book or the new iPhone?

  23. 23
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby:

    people act all self-righteous about being above politics

    In my experience, those who are more or less ignorant of politics aren’t “above” it so much as sick of it, they just don’t have the emotional energy to devote to it. A lot of times that leads to the “both sides” attitude, but it is because that is the way our media presents it. If one only skims the top of the news that is all one hears. If one goes mid-depth in the news, that is still all one hears:

    “Climate change, is it real or not. DEMs say it is because…. GOPs say it isn’t because…” with absolutely no in depth reporting and analysis of the realities of the 2 positions. I don’t blame people for tuning out or going to the consensus view of the talking heads. It gets exhausting for me.

    Just once, I would like to hear an interviewer say to a guest, “With all due respect Sir/Madam, that’s a bald faced lie.” and then follow up with the truth. But they don’t do that because if they did, that guests fellow travelers would scream “BIASED!” and the worst thing in the world for a reporter is to be biased. Reporting lies on equal footing with the truth is OK as long as one shows no bias for one side or the other.

    Unless of course one is a FOX news talking head.

  24. 24
    Baud says:

    @bystander: I’m not on pills but I hear you. Still, I feel an obligation.

  25. 25
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Schlemazel:

    5 will get you 10 she also believes that government does not listen to or represent her. Idiot indeed.

    I live in Misery. I know it doesn’t represent me. Doesn’t make me an idiot, just honest.

  26. 26

    @Baud: I think the price would be about the same.

  27. 27
    d58826 says:

    Two comments:
    1. if the VSP’s can’t stand the criticism in the book then maybe they should change professions
    2. If Hillary had been the person Der Fuhrer shot in Time Square the VSP would find fault with Hillary.;

  28. 28

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I don’t blame people for tuning out or going to the consensus view of the talking heads.

    I do, they’re lazy.

    Fuckem.

  29. 29
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    Could we have a pinned thread on the side dedicated to this book? I haven’t gotten the book yet, and won’t for a couple of weeks (getting a new Fire tablet to go with the book), and want to find the discussion when I do read it. Also a dedicated and pinned thread can be as long as it needs to be without disrupting the flow of the blog.

  30. 30

    @d58826:

    If Hillary had been the person Der Fuhrer shot in Time Square the VSP would find fault with Hillary.;

    Of course, “She got in the way to make herself look good”.

  31. 31
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Chyron HR: Heh.

  32. 32
    satby says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I agree that sometimes people are sick of it, and I will forever agree that the media in this country abandoned their obligation to inform people decades ago. But I have known too many people who aren’t really sick of it or exhausted because they never bothered to pay attention in the first place. And cop an attitude when you react with surprise that they’re unaware of some pretty widely reported fact, like the book clerk above. They tend to be lazy, self-satisfied assholes, again like the clerk who couldn’t find the book asked for in the store, even though that’s the whole point of her job.

  33. 33
    Quinerly says:

    @satby: @Baud: @rikyrah: Good morning from Poco and his tribe! 🐾

  34. 34
    Quinerly says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    I’m with you on that. Thought about the audio version while driving in October but afraid I will get too angry/upset. Also, very interested in Tur’s book. Very good interview on Fresh Air yesterday.

  35. 35
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: They aren’t lazy, their fucking busy with other shit that is more important to them: work, kids, parents, friends, house repairs, food, laundry, car… and yeah, a little time just for themselves. Nice that you are so comfortable that you can afford to feel self righteous.

  36. 36
    satby says:

    @Quinerly: 🙋 to Poco and his gang!

  37. 37
    Jeffro says:

    @satby: lazy and self-satisfied is right. Proud of their ignorance, thinking that it somehow makes them smarter, too

  38. 38
    Jeffro says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: she’s bleeding out…shows a lack of stamina

  39. 39
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    Will be getting carolduhart.com tonight. I was amazed it was still available, and it was so cheap. My domain, aquariusmoon.info, I’ve had since the beginning of my internet journey nearly 17 years ago, and was originally going to be just an astrology site. But I have three blogs on the site, only one has to do with the subject, and I found the old domain pretty limiting. So wait a few days before clicking the link-I have to contact my host and all of that before you can count on it and all.

  40. 40
    Luthe says:

    Hillary is going to be at my local Costco on Saturday for a signing. How soon should I get in line?

  41. 41
    satby says:

    @CarolDuhart2: make your nym your new link!

  42. 42
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    @Luthe: Probably the same as Black Friday-asscrack of dawn.

  43. 43
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Self righteousness is a drug and I have yet to meet a human who is not addicted to it. And yes, that includes me.

  44. 44

    @OzarkHillbilly: Amazing they still find the time to piss and moan about it though. No, they’re too fucking lazy to be citizens.

  45. 45
    satby says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: well, different people fall into several of the categories: too busy, too overwhelmed, too lazy, too smug…so we all have a point.
    The trouble is who do we reach and who’s probably unreachable?

  46. 46
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CarolDuhart2: pretty cool.

  47. 47

    @satby: Mine links to my Flickr photostream.

  48. 48
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: When you are as right as I am, it’s hard not to be addicted.

  49. 49
    Baud says:

    @CarolDuhart2: Congrats, netizen!

  50. 50
  51. 51
    germy says:

    White House accuses Clinton of ‘reckless attacks’ in book

    WASHINGTON (AP) – The White House is accusing former campaign rival Hillary Clinton of “propping up book sales with false and reckless attacks.”

    White House spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders says she’s unsure if President Donald Trump will be reading “What Happened,” Clinton’s account of the 2016 campaign. She says the president is “pretty well-versed on what happened.”

    Sanders says Clinton “ran one of the most negative campaigns in history” and says it’s “sad” the last chapter of her public life will be defined by selling books with “false and reckless attacks.” Sanders did not elaborate or offer any specifics.

    Jesus!

  52. 52
    rikyrah says:

    @CarolDuhart2:
    That is a good idea 😄

  53. 53
    rikyrah says:

    @Quinerly:
    Morning Poco, Ivan and John Lennon 😄

  54. 54
    Baud says:

    @Quinerly: Good morning.

  55. 55
    But her emails!! says:

    @germy:

    “False and Reckless” sounds like the honest slogan for the Trump campaign and Presidency. Maybe an actual journalist could use it as the title to a book about it.

  56. 56

    @CarolDuhart2: I’m nearly finished with the online course in online marketing that my new publisher had me take, and I’m going to have to set up a new blog too. I blogged for a long time on Live Journal but it’s pretty much dead and I haven’t done anything there in quite a while. I’m not altogether thrilled with another set of writing to do for a blog.

  57. 57

    @germy: Huckabee Sanders’ press briefings leave me alternately astounded and furious. Mostly furious though. She throws slime with such a smug look.

  58. 58
    Aimai says:

    @rikyrah: mine came yesterday. But yesterday for class I had to read a statement by a social worker who voted for trump (as well as the much better official statement by ither sicial workers protesting trump) and I got so angry I scraped the fuck out of my passenger side doors so I will be out thousands of dollars or druving around with this badge of road rage on my car. So I think the eound is still kind of fresh.

  59. 59
    germy says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: Someone here ( I don’t remember who ) made the excellent point that she’s had lots of practice over the years defending her monstrous brothers.

  60. 60
    oldgold says:

    Katy Tur in her book about covering Trump during the 2026 campaign, released yesterday, recounts an incident that took place with Trump before a segment on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” with Joe Scarborough.

    “Before I know what’s happening,” she wrote, “his hands are on my shoulders and his lips are on my cheek. My eyes widen. My body freezes. My heart stops.”

    She should have reported this incident during the campaign when other women were coming forward to report similar inappropriate conduct by Trump.

  61. 61
    Baud says:

    Hillary on Today right now.

  62. 62
    MJS says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Seconded. “Tuning out” is the lazy person’s way of dealing with everything. And in the case of politics, that laziness has drastic consequences for the rest of us.

  63. 63
    germy says:

    I was at our local bookstore a few weeks ago, and one of the novels I bought was Sinclair Lewis “It Can’t Happen Here”

    I’m seeing so many parallels to our current admin it’s appalling.

    (The bookstore clerk told me they’ve sold quite a few copies lately)

  64. 64
    Miki says:

    Got it yesterday. Read some last night. 11% into it (Fire tablet so I know things like this) and am loving every bit of it. I’m highlighting a lot – kind of surprises me. She starts each chapter with a quote, and quotes liberally from many different sources in the body of the chapters I’ve read so far – from prose and poetry (e.g., “Just keep trying. No feeling is final” Rainer Maria Rilke).

    I’m not sure I’ve learned much that’s new so far (except that she read Louise Penny during that first month – I heart Louise Penny) – much of it I already knew. But reading it in her words has been incredibly moving. That’s the biggest surprise – I have been moved to tears more than once. Also rage a few times. But not despair.

    Get it. Read it. It’s worth it. She would have been an excellent president.

  65. 65
    Baud says:

    @Aimai: That sucks.

  66. 66
    Baud says:

    I’m getting angry just watching this interview.

  67. 67
    germy says:

    We got Hillary’s last book, and my wife stood on line to have it autographed. The line was around the block.

    Three overweight teaparty-type protestors waved some signs briefly, but they were ignored and outnumbered.

    So we have two Hillary autographs. My wife got the first one back when her husband first campaigned for president.

  68. 68
    Baud says:

    I don’t understand why Hillary isn’t bitch slapping Matt Lauer.

    ETA:. They’re using a big table. She can’t reach.

  69. 69
    BC in Illinois says:

    The book was delivered to my doorstep yesterday. I’m through the first 100+ pages.

    Those of you wondering how you would handle the rage and the hurt of going through 2016 again, the book starts out by telling, honestly and personally, how SHE dealt with rage and hurt. How she dealt with other people, and when she didn’t want to be with people. About Inauguration Day and the tremendous and wonderful demonstrations the next day. About Election Night and about the walks in the woods. It’s like a friend telling you how she got through a terrible sadness. She talks about herself, herself and Bill, about Kate McKinnon saying “I’m not giving up and neither should you,” about prayer.

    The section on prayer, she realizes, may not be everyone’s cup of tea. But notes from her pastor, bits and pieces from Anne Lamott, quiet references to 1st Corinthians 13 and Hebrews 11, and going back to Henri Nouwen’s The Return of the Prodigal Son were all part of how she saw her way through. The certainty of love, the sense that the journey is still worth it, that there is still–and always–much to be grateful for in life.

    If you’re inclined that way, her quote from T. S. Eliot sent me back to Four Quartets, “East Coker”:

    There is only the fight to recover what has been lost
    And found and lost again and again: and now, under conditions
    That seem unpropitious. But perhaps neither gain nor loss.
    For us, there is only the trying. The rest is not our business.

    There are also a number of references to words of Maya Angelou.

    But the deeply personal view of things and the long view of things are placed right into a look at what actually happened: the campaign, the decision to campaign, the staff, the days, the press, the good and the bad. I am right at the beginning of the section on “Sisterhood,” “On being a Woman in Politics,” etc.

    I understand the feeling of dread on the part of fellow Hillary-supporters who aren’t sure they want to go through all this again. I am dreading the discussion of Bernie Sanders, which will come up later. Will she hit the same feeling of __________ that I feel toward him, and toward the behavior of his supporters at the convention, etc., that I have? But if she doesn’t, I have confidence that she will handle it, in an (as I say) honest and personal way.

    And let me point out one uplifting aspect of the book. She speaks of Donald Trump with undisguised loathing. This is a feeling that many of us can identify with, She views him as an unprepared, pussy-grabbing, failure of a human being, with no admirable qualities, who is a threat to our nation. Her description of Trump’s evocation of rage, bigotry, and racism is the kind of honest description that is refreshing to read.

    I am looking forward, either today of tomorrow, to reaching the final section: “Resistance.”

  70. 70
    germy says:

    @Baud: I loathe Matt Lauer and don’t want to see him ask her questions. I’m sure his boss fed him plenty of things to “challenge” her with. Fuck that overpaid weasel.

  71. 71
    Baud says:

    @germy: Yep. Still remember that debate.

  72. 72
    Kay says:

    I can’t read it. I get too mad. I couldn’t even get thru the (gross) Politico piece on the ENORMOUS scandal that was the email server.

    I would just like to repeat- I never gave a shit about the email server and I still don’t. I don’t think it “means” anything other than they wanted to make it the scoop of the century and they’re now either crowing about bringing down Clinton OR covering their ass for focusing exclusively on the email server for 16 months and not covering anything else.

    STILL fucking flogging the email! A decade from now they’ll be smugly referring to the email!

  73. 73
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Of coarse they piss and moan, people piss and moan about all kinds of things all the time. I do believe I have heard you piss and moan about the weather. Ever do anything about it? I know I never do anything about it. I also never do anything about the assholes on the road that I constantly piss and moan about. And while I always vote, and when moved to it I contribute to campaigns, I have to face the truth: How often does a liberal vote in rural Misery actually mean anything? Damned rarely. (statewide voter initiatives and constitutional amendments where my vote gets rolled up with other more liberal areas are about the only times I can think of) (oh, and judicial retention votes. I’m the only person I know who actually goes to the ABA’s grading page before the election) So, can I say that I understand why some people feel their votes don’t count for much? Yeah, yeah I do understand. And if after a long day of working they feel like between voting or going to Walmart because they ran out of bread, lunchmeat, and milk that morning, Walmart is the more productive activity, I sympathize. I do.

    @satby: My only neighbors are more conservative than I, not RWNJ but certainly more conservative. (while I suspect they watch FOX in drive by fashion I am certain they also watch other news) Very much environmentally conscious, and they are sympathetic to BLM but not necessarily their tactics, and were absolutely incensed by Flint MI. We have had some interesting political conversations, ones in which I have been able to persuade them of a few things. Could not reach them on Hillary. Benghazi? They heard me out, but I don’t think I was persuasive enough to change his position (he talked about an armed group of Americans just blocks away from the consulate…. I said I had never heard of such a thing (they don’t have internet so it didn’t come from infowars) then explained why it didn’t even make sense that if such a force existed that Hillary had something to do with their nonintervention) Emails? I pointed out that Colin and Condi did pretty much the same thing, and that the “classified” emails were not even damaging (if somebody had actually gotten a hold of them). They were aware that Colin and Condi’s email practices were not above questioning but not of the content of the “classified” emails found on Hillary’s server. A couple other points were discussed and it all came down to, as he more or less put it, “What you gonna do? Damned no matter which way you vote.”

    At which point I said something to the effect of, “Oh no, not even close.”
    He said, “Really?”
    I started to reply with, “Let me count the ways:….”
    And he replied before I got much further, “Well, can’t agree on everything.” or some such.

    In truth, I know the subject got closed because of me. Sometimes I let my emotions get out in front of me and a lot of people find that disconcerting. My takeaway from that conversation was simply that 20+ years of GOP anti Hillary everything had done it’s work and poisoned their minds to the extent they could not change their minds about her even tho they had to acknowledge that all was not what they had heard.

    These people are reachable. Not on everything but on more than a few and that’s where we go to work, on the margins.

  74. 74
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: Yep. And Humble too. Have I told you lately how humble you are? You are very humble.

  75. 75
    Kay says:

    Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 34m34 minutes ago
    More
    The approval process for the biggest Tax Cut & Tax Reform package in the history of our country will soon begin. Move fast Congress!
    2,315 replies 3,184 retweets 12,367 likes

    Still lying every day and they’re still allowing him to lie every day. There are maybe three words in this Presidential statement that are true. It’s a fucking farce, pretend, a charade, and they’re ALL complicit in it every day.

    God help us. There is no objective truth. They succeeded in creating an imaginary country. How did it happen that there is ONE person providing oversight of the Trump Administration? If it weren’t for Mueller Trump would be free to create an entire reality for 350 million people.

  76. 76

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I do believe I have heard you piss and moan about the weather. Ever do anything about it?

    Thank you for asking; yes, I vote for folk who understand the Climate Change is real, is a problem that’s caused by human activity and can be changed by appropriate policy. While it has always been hot in the summer here in Southern California, ya know a “Dry Heat”; the addition of the monsoonal flow is a more recent phenomena that I first noticed about 30 years ago.

  77. 77
    germy says:

    The moment you get @HillaryClinton 's new book- & you realize you're in the book. Ana you are so loved. #WhatHappened #GoodReads #lovewins pic.twitter.com/d1OIp1hN3p— Nelba Márquez-Greene (@Nelba_MG) September 12, 2017

  78. 78
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’m too humble to praise my humility, so thank you for noticing.

  79. 79
    Kay says:

    The NYTimes plans on continuing to allow Thrush and Haberman to cover the Trump Administration? WHILE Thrush and Haberman are working with administration “insiders” on a book about Trump?

    I hope they all make a lot of money in this fictional account of Donald Trump they’re presenting to people as fact. The members of Donald Trump’s Administration are providing all the coverage of Donald Trump’s Administration. Great! Good plan.

  80. 80
    gene108 says:

    @oldgold:

    Her bosses would have probably taken her off the job, because she could no longer be objective or something.

    Also, there had to be witnesses. I can’t imagine a TV set being without people buzzing around setting up lights, doing sound checks, etc

  81. 81
    Kay says:

    I actually have some sympathy for any fool who runs against Trump in ’20. Forget it. These decisions have been made in a meeting between Trump “insiders”, the NYTimes, and a book publisher.

  82. 82
    Baud says:

    @Kay: I wish there were a word to describe what garbage the NYT is.

  83. 83
    germy says:

    @Baud: “Garbage” works just fine.

  84. 84
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Weather is not the same as climate, but you know that. I was making a joke to try and lighten things up a little, but apparently you want to hang onto a disagreement with a like minded person. That’s on you.

  85. 85
    Quinerly says:

    @oldgold:
    I recounted this incident in a thread yesterday. I, too, think Tur should have reported it. Not sure it would have made any difference but the public should have known it. Disappointing because I like Tur and her life story. Can’t recall the nym right now, but someone piped in yesterday that Tur’s coverage was “fawning.” I didn’t see it that way at all. I do have to fault her for admitting in the Terry Gross interview that she didn’t vote.

  86. 86
    Betty Cracker says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I don’t understand why you’re making excuses for these lazy, cynical motherfuckers. Millions of us have demanding jobs, kids, old folks to look after, etc., and still manage to access the widely available information that enables us to make informed choices and then get off our asses and drag ourselves to the polls. People who neglect their duty as citizens don’t deserve your spirited defense, IMO.

  87. 87
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: That’s why I do it for you.

  88. 88
    satby says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    In truth, I know the subject got closed because of me. Sometimes I let my emotions get out in front of me and a lot of people find that disconcerting.

    I have disengaged from a lot because right at the moment I can’t control the very obvious contempt I have for a lot of the aggressively stupid shit I’ve heard. Yeah, I know they’ve been deliberately misinformed, are busy trying to survive, have other things going on, yada, yada; but you know what? So are you and I. And somehow we managed to get the information we need to make informed choices. So in spite of how easy it is make excuses for them, in the end many of them just don’t give enough of a shit about the world they occupy to spend the time to try to be better informed. Unless, of course, some politicians threaten their personal sacred cow, then it’s all about that.
    I’m flat out of evens to give.

  89. 89
  90. 90
    Aleta says:

    @BC in Illinois: Thank you. That helps a lot today.

  91. 91
    HeleninEire says:

    Morning all. Today us my 55th birthday and I swear I feel 25. If I knew getting old was gonna be this great I’da done it years ago.

    Spending a few days in Galway city, my second favorite place in Ireland, cuz why not and Happy Birthday to Me!

  92. 92
    Aleta says:

    @HeleninEire: Happy Birthday to you!

  93. 93
    MomSense says:

    I listened to her interview with the Obamabros on Pod Save America. Damn, we missed out on a great president.

  94. 94
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Aimai: Reminds me of the time I broke the clothes dryer door after my mastectomy. Anger on the surface, grief on the inside.

    It is a heartbreaking betrayal to learn that there are social workers!!! who could vote for Trump, or any Republican for that matter. What motivates someone to enter an essential field where you aren’t paid or supported enough, and then vote to make it worse? On a purely self-centered level, it’s self-hating. What must they think of their clients?!

    I feel for the fauculty. Obviously they haven’t gotten through and they certainly know it.

  95. 95
    MomSense says:

    @HeleninEire:

    Happy birthday woman I’m living vicariously through in Ireland!

  96. 96
    MomSense says:

    @Baud:

    I don’t understand why Hillary isn’t bitch slapping Matt Lauer.

    Matt Lauer is garbage.
    He’s not worth it.

  97. 97
    Baud says:

    @HeleninEire: Lá breithe shona duit!

  98. 98
    HeleninEire says:

    @MomSense: We should become Facebook friends. I post all the cool stuff I do here. And its all Cool!

  99. 99
    Baud says:

    @MomSense:

    While I don’t disagree, the fact is the rot that elected Trump would not have been dealt with if she has won, and probably would have festered for four more years. I’d still prefer that to this, but it would not have been all puppies and rainbows.

  100. 100
    HeleninEire says:

    @Baud: go raibh maith agar.

  101. 101
    MomSense says:

    @HeleninEire:

    I’m not on the book of faces. ;(

  102. 102
    MomSense says:

    @Baud:

    No it wouldn’t have been puppies and rainbows but it also wouldn’t have been night terrors and insomnia.

  103. 103
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    A quick good morning! before I go up and read the comments. There’s a good interview with Hillary on Pod Save America, by the way.

  104. 104
  105. 105
    Ohio Mom says:

    Was it yesterday that Cole complimented the Cincinnati Enquirer for their special Sunday supplement on the opioid crisis?

    In today’s Enquirer, the Letters to the Editor started with two letters disparaging Hillary’s book — as if either of those fools could have read it before firing off their missives — accompanied by the most unflattering photo of Hillary. Since when is the Letters section illustrated?

    The only reason I don’t hate the New York Times as much as some do is because hating my local paper takes all my attention.

  106. 106
    satby says:

    @HeleninEire: A very Happy Birthday 🎂🎂🎂 to you!

    @Baud: well done!

  107. 107

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Weather is not the same as climate, but you know that.

    This is true, but if a weather pattern that never in recorded history starts occurring on an annual basis, it just might be climate change.

  108. 108
    satby says:

    @Betty Cracker: @satby: But I’m willing to believe Ozark is a nicer, more patient guy than I am. Sorry OH, not really wanting to argue today!

  109. 109
    Jeffro says:

    @germy:

    Sarah Huckabee Sanders says she’s unsure if President Donald Trump will be reading “What Happened,”

    She’s unsure? I’m positive he won’t, unless there’s a picture book edition.

  110. 110
  111. 111
    Another Scott says:

    My pre-ordered copy was supposed to arrive yesterday, but didn’t. There was some sort of delay in the hand-off to the USPS. Now it’s supposed to arrive tomorrow.

    I suppose that means that demand was higher than expected. Good good, but …

    (Mervyn-Lady-Open-Open-Open.gif)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  112. 112
    Jeffro says:

    Btw this deserves its own thread…BJers have been on to this for over a year now: RT, Sputnik, and Russia’s New Theory of War

    See if any of this sounds familiar…

    Officials in Germany and at NATO headquarters in Brussels view the Lisa case, as it is now known, as an early strike in a new information war Russia is waging against the West. In the months that followed, politicians perceived by the Russian government as hostile to its interests would find themselves caught up in media storms that, in their broad contours, resembled the one that gathered around Merkel. They often involved conspiracy theories and outright falsehoods — sometimes with a tenuous connection to fact, as in the Lisa case, sometimes with no connection at all — amplified until they broke through into domestic politics. In other cases, they simply helped promote nationalist, far-left or far-right views that put pressure on the political center. What the efforts had in common was their agents: a loose network of Russian-government-run or -financed media outlets and apparently coordinated social-media accounts.

    After RT and Sputnik gave platforms to politicians behind the British vote to leave the European Union, like Nigel Farage, a committee of the British Parliament released a report warning that foreign governments may have tried to interfere with the referendum. Russia and China, the report argued, had an “understanding of mass psychology and of how to exploit individuals” and practiced a kind of cyberwarfare “reaching beyond the digital to influence public opinion.” When President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia visited the new French president, Emmanuel Macron, at the palace of Versailles in May, Macron spoke out about such influence campaigns at a news conference. Having prevailed weeks earlier in the election over Marine Le Pen — a far-right politician who had backed Putin’s annexation of Crimea and met with him in the Kremlin a month before the election — Macron complained that “Russia Today and Sputnik were agents of influence which on several occasions spread fake news about me personally and my campaign.”

  113. 113
    HeleninEire says:

    @satby: How can I find you? You know what just do this: my real name is Helen O’Neill. Just put it in and search Dublin. My avatar is Patsy Stone from Ab Fab. Because of course it is.

  114. 114
    BC in Illinois says:

    @BC in Illinois:
    Just to correct myself, the final section of her book is entitled “Resilience,” not “Resistance.”

    Two chapters: “Love and Kindness,” and “Onward Together.”

  115. 115
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    Heh. I just checked out the Amazon reviews. They’re clearly split between angels vs. trolls – 44% five stars, 51% one star. Almost nothing in between. Classic review header: Dear Hillary, Please Shut Up and Go Away, from a mister markster; which isn’t to say there aren’t women in that camp too.

    I was accepted to the Emily’s List candidate training for this Saturday. I like the TS Eliot quote that BC in Illinois references in #69, “For us, there is only the trying. The rest is not our business.” So I take the next step forward and see where it leads.

    ETA: I like the idea of a book discussion thread.

  116. 116
    Betty Cracker says:

    @HeleninEire: Do you mean Eurydice Colette Clytemnestra Dido Bathsheba Rabelais Patricia Cocteau Stone? Happy birthday, sweetie darling! :)

  117. 117
    Amir Khalid says:

    @germy:
    The Trump Administration is a bottomless pit of many sins; pettiness is but one of them, and a minor one at that.

  118. 118
    Betty Cracker says:

    @satby: Almost everyone is nicer and more patient than I am, so I can well believe that’s true! I just find it so goddamned frustrating. If Trump doesn’t smoke these “both sides suck / I’m too pure to sully myself with politics” assholes off the fence, nothing will. And more and more, it’s looking like nothing will.

  119. 119
    cintibud says:

    @Ohio Mom: Can’t believe I’m defending the enquirer, but keep in mind a couple things – the story on the Opioid crisis was good journalism as Cole said, many of the the letters to the editors around here are written by hopeless nutcases. Also the Enquirer endorsed Hillary (reluctantly, but still)

  120. 120
    satby says:

    @HeleninEire: just sent request!

  121. 121
    HeleninEire says:

    @Betty Cracker: LOL. Stop testing me. I speak Irish Gaelic about as well as I speak NYC Spanglish. Which is to say almost not at all!

  122. 122
    HeleninEire says:

    @satby: Got it. We are now friends! In two different Internet spaces!

  123. 123
    satby says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    If Trump doesn’t smoke these “both sides suck / I’m too pure to sully myself with politics” assholes off the fence, nothing will. And more and more, it’s looking like nothing will.

    I think nothing will, because they consider him as a confirmation of their opinion, not as a consequence of their apathy.

  124. 124
    Another Scott says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Thanks for your efforts.

    I mostly agree.

    If people can be persuaded to follow Fox News’s lead, they can be persuaded to follow a different path, too. It just takes time; too often a very, very long time.

    On the bookseller – my take on first reading the story was that she was saying she’s tribal. She always votes GOP o[r] TeamD, so that’s what she did. She’s not plugged into politics very much (like most of our fellow citizens). It’s just the way it is. But I wasn’t there, and I don’t know what’s in her head, so who knows whether that take is correct.

    Maybe the conversation made her think a little more, and made her realize that she needs to be more connected (especially if she’s a bookseller!!). Baby steps…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  125. 125

    @Quinerly: How many lies did she call the then Presidential candidate on? How many times did she both sides his egregious behavior? I didn’t see her as any different from any other MSM bot and yes their coverage was too fawning. That T is the president is the testament to that. He is unqualified not only as a Presidential candidate but as a human being, the courtier media did not cover him half as critically as they did HRC. You can throw bouquets at Tur for her wonderful coverage but to me she is just another member of the media fail parade.

  126. 126
    satby says:

    @HeleninEire: yes! There are some good aspects of modern life. And this is one.

  127. 127
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @HeleninEire: Sláinte mhaith!

  128. 128

    @Betty Cracker: Not me. I agree with you 100% and have zero patience for the I am so cool that I am above politics crowd.

  129. 129
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Betty Cracker: I’m not making excuses. I’m acknowledging the fact that we don’t all put the same amount of importance on the same things. We have different points of view with different priorities. Over the years there were probably dozens of times I dragged myself to the polls covered in mud/concrete dust/drywall dust/oil/etc, soaking wet from the all day 40 degree November drizzle, sometimes bleeding or nursing a blackened thumb or bruised ribs, after 10 long hours (if I was working 12s just forget about making the polls) of framing/hanging drywall/setting forms/etc when all I really wanted to do was just go home, take a long hot shower, eat a sandwich, maybe crack a beer, close my eyes and get ready to do it all again the next day. And to be honest, I am quite sure there were a few times when I said, “Fuck it.” and just went home because I was tired of being cold, wet, sore, and dirty. I know a lot of other guys who felt the same, and I don’t blame them.

    But than, we aren’t talking about just making it to the polls. We are talking about being “politically informed voters” which takes daily effort and time. Daily effort and time that a whole world of people just don’t feel like investing. When election day comes, they may or may not find out about all the ballot issues and constitutional amendments, the ins and outs, pros and cons, but more than likely they will just read the ballot summaries and vote whichever way makes sense to them in that moment. And then vote straight DEM or GOP, drop their ballot in the box and go home.

    Or maybe they just say “Screw it. I’m tired.”

    Either way, I am sympathetic to these people because I have lived in that world and I understand how it feels. I have always been a pro-union, pro-environment, pro equal justice, yellow dog DEM voter, but I wasn’t always a political junkie.

  130. 130
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @HeleninEire: Sent you a friend request. Initials e. b. :)

  131. 131
    HeleninEire says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: Na zdrowie. From my Polish half. I knew that one without looking it up!

  132. 132
    HeleninEire says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: Got it. Hello friend.

  133. 133
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: well said. And it’s a lot easier to be a political junkie now than it was pre-internet.

  134. 134

    @OzarkHillbilly: When I was in grad school, international students knew more about politics than many who were citizens,what is their excuse,unlike the people you describe. This was during the run up to the Iraq war.Also many more women were plugged into politics than men.

  135. 135
    Kathleen says:

    @satby: Amen Amen. On the other hand it probably served as good therapy for her. She truly is an inspiration.

  136. 136
    Quinerly says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    Must have been you. Didn’t catch the nym yesterday. No bouquets thrown. I watched a lot of Tur’s coverage. It wasn’t fawning. Especially when the Secret Service had to protect her from a mob that Trump tried to incite. In other news, I’d love a slice of NM green chile apple pie. Going to dig out the last of my Hatch chile stash and bake me one.😁 Congrats on your recent citizenship. Don’t think I ever got around to throwing some kind words your way about it. Do have a nice day. I’m going back to my morning NPR listen.😉

  137. 137

    @Steve in the ATL: The internet has been around since the mid 90s at least. Almost 25 years now.

  138. 138

    @Quinerly: Thank You. Green chili apple pie sounds intriguing. Is it savory instead of sweet?

  139. 139
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: In the past 2 years we’ve had 2 500 yr floods on the Meramec and our annual rain falls have been increasing steadily (3-4″ over historical norms). Yeah, it’s climate change affecting our local weather. In fact several computer models were predicting this exact result 10 yrs ago but not for another 50 years. So on the floods? Mostly just weather but worse because of climate and human interference. On the increased rainfalls? Gotta be all climate if the trend continues.

  140. 140
    Kathleen says:

    @satby: She must be one of those above the fray NPR listeners (NPR. listening Juicers not in that category).

  141. 141
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @schrodingers_cat: It’s sweet, but not too sweet, with a slight suggestion of heat from the green chile. I had green chile apple pie at the New Mexico State Fair on Sunday. It was very good (except for the crust, which was too doughy).

  142. 142
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: I’m just disagreeing, putting forth a different perspective. It would be a very boring world if everyone agreed about everything. All of us here agree on the big things and more than a little of the minutae, I am just a little more open to seeing things from a different perspective and yes, sympathetic to it. Not agreeing, but sympathetic.

  143. 143
    Quinerly says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    A little of both. Some NM peeps were discussing it this week. Never made it. Only had it in Santa Fe, albeit out of season. How did the chalk paint cabinet project turn out? Think you posted in an OT that you were looking for info. Pretty sure the thread was dying but I responded with my thoughts…how I handled a project in the spring. Much cheaper to mix your own. Recipes, how tos on line. The specialty paints can get really costly. Easy formula. Good luck. Projects tend to help me with my anger issues about the election.💚

  144. 144

    @Kathleen: Totebaggers are the worst, have to agree with DougJ on that.

  145. 145
  146. 146
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I have to confess that I checked out of politics during my child-rearing years, when we were living overseas. I was exhausted and North American events felt very distant. I still voted (for Democrats, of course), but I wasn’t particularly informed. This was (mostly) pre-internet era. Perhaps I would have been more engaged had Balloon-Juice existed then.

    Edited for geographic and chronological accuracy.

  147. 147
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @HeleninEire:

    Happy, happy birthday, Helen! Have fun in Galway, and please send pictures to Alain’s “On the Road” so we can have the vicarious experience.

  148. 148
    Kathleen O'Neill says:

    @Aimai: That’s why I stopped listening to NPR

  149. 149
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    When I was in grad school, international students knew more about politics than many who were citizens,

    And most naturalized citizens know more about US history and constitutional issues than natural born citizens. Why? Because natural born citizens have always taken their rights and history for granted, where as naturalized citizens had to earn those rights. It’s just human nature to take for granted what you’ve always had.

    My wife is very appreciative of her right to vote (and her other rights) but putting forth the effort of informing herself on all the issues? No, she has other things to worry about. I can’t help but think that part of that comes of growing up in Franco’s Spain where being informed consisted of toeing the Nationalist line.

  150. 150
    satby says:

    @Another Scott: @OzarkHillbilly: Well, I know both Scott and you are nicer guys than me (starting with the fact you’re both guys 😉). But I noticed something a little odd, the majority of people getting vehement about this, including me, are women (though other men have weighed in on the “lazy” side). And it makes me wonder a bit about the different ways we experience political disagreement in this country, because women are accustomed to higher expectations and lesser respect, which makes this woman,for one, much less patient in those discussions. Because the veneer comes off quickly, and the dismissal of my viewpoint with a dose of mansplain always follows. and I’m not saying that’s happening here, it’s just something that occurred to me as I wondered why I’ve lost the tolerance I used to be able to muster up. I wonder if you still have the bandwidth for some tolerance because people, like your neighbor, at least hear you out before dismissing what you say?

  151. 151
  152. 152
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @HeleninEire:

    I would love to follow you on FB but do you have any idea how many Helen O’Neills there are over there? Several from Dublin, but looking at the posts, none seems like you.

    If you’re willing, would you send me a friend request? On FB, I am Judith Mann Costello. Thanks!

  153. 153
    Citizen_X says:

    @Betty Cracker: These are “which side are you on?” times. A person who can’t pick a side isn’t worth very much.

  154. 154
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @satby:

    I wonder if you still have the bandwidth for some tolerance because people, like your neighbor, at least hear you out before dismissing what you say?

    That’s a really interesting observation. We certainly see that dynamic with HRC…and I recently had a RWNJ tell me outright that his opinion was superior to mine owing to his maleness. That was after he had run out of facts to support his “ideas” (he actually never had any facts, which was part of his problem in reality-based discussion).

  155. 155
  156. 156
    Betty Cracker says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I don’t believe it’s all that arduous to be a reasonably informed citizen. No one is saying people have to be political junkies. They don’t have to think about it every single day.

    But if people can’t be arsed to access widely available information and do their civic duty by voting, democracy doesn’t work. And here we are, with a malignant, corrupt clown in charge of the world’s most fearsome nuclear arsenal and a nation coming apart at the seams.

    IMO, that’s as much on the apathetic as it is on the evil bastards who are cheering it on.

  157. 157
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’ve sent you a request too.

  158. 158
    HeleninEire says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Thanks!

  159. 159
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @HeleninEire:

    You are fast!

  160. 160
    HeleninEire says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: That’s what he said. Wait, what??

  161. 161
    PAM Dirac says:

    @HeleninEire: Another one of a seemly not so rare breed. I did the Ancestry DNA test and came out 49% Irish, 49% Eastern European, and a bit if Scandinavian. My mom’s family is almost all from Clare and my dad’s is Poland/Ukraine/Belarus.

  162. 162
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Thanks! Received and accepted!

  163. 163
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @HeleninEire:

    :: snort ::

  164. 164
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    From the Chicago Tribune on HRC’s book and her right to speak: http://www.chicagotribune.com/.....l#nws=true

  165. 165
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yay! I remember a song from my long-ago Brownie days…”Make new friends and keep the old, one is silver and the other gold.” Sung in a round.

  166. 166
    HeleninEire says:

    @PAM Dirac: Haven’t done the test. Pretty sure I’m half and half. But you never know!

  167. 167
    raven says:

    @PAM Dirac: My peeps came from Clare too, at Least Bridgette Downs did.

  168. 168
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby:

    And it makes me wonder a bit about the different ways we experience political disagreement in this country, because women are accustomed to higher expectations and lesser respect, which makes this woman,for one, much less patient in those discussions.

    Interesting, and not just because as a man it never would have occurred to me, nor is it something that I could ever fully wrap my brain around. I suspect there is more than a little justifiable truth in that. (I had a strong mother and 3 sisters, 2 of which would never be shy about ripping me a new one if I had ever engaged in ‘mansplaining’ (which is not to say I am immune to it, just that I’ve always had to respect a female POV)

    I wonder if you still have the bandwidth for some tolerance because people, like your neighbor, at least hear you out before dismissing what you say?

    As I said, my neighbors while somewhat conservative are not RWNJs. They hold a number of liberal beliefs tho maybe not to the degree I do. At any rate, they respect me enough to listen to what I say and I them. There is no knee jerk there. They have information that is different from mine, and they reached an informed decision that was different from mine. (I would say a “badly informed decision” but that’s just between you and me)(I really don’t even know if they voted for president, I got the impression they did but Ron laughs at my bumper stickers)

    As for having the tolerance, these are 2 very sweet and kind people who watch out for my place and I theirs. I can’t condemn them because we disagree on a few things. And besides, when I bring them their all but free one or 2 dozen eggs every week Becky plies me with baked goodies. I can tolerate that.

  169. 169
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: My reply is In moderation….

    And it’s time for me to go to my Doc and find out if I’m going to die. (answer? YES! We all die.)

  170. 170
    PAM Dirac says:

    @HeleninEire: The results of the test have been very interesting. I have matches to people all over the place, including all over Ireland, when I had assumed without thinking that my Irish ancestors lived all their lives within a few miles of their farm until they emigrated. People (and history) are a lot more complicated than the narratives we take as fact.

  171. 171
    Ruckus says:

    @MJS:

    drastic consequences for the rest of us.

    It has drastic consequences for them as well. But they are too lazy or stupid or silly to deal with them.
    @OzarkHillbilly:
    It doesn’t take that much to be informed, even in our disinformation times. It does take a bit of thought, though. And you are right about self righteousness that is a trait, or some would say a failing, of all humans, But it takes some effort to be a citizen, rather than just a resident of a country. The person(s) talked about haven’t taken any time to be citizens. And we get the government we got by people being residents, not citizens. A vote means something. It is the most effort that most people make towards citizenship in their lives. Some people don’t put any effort into that at all, and it’s disastrous to all of us when they abdicate their duty. Too busy, too stupid, too bigoted, too hateful, too uninterested, too oblivious……. It doesn’t matter which one it correct, any one of them is a problem.

  172. 172
    PAM Dirac says:

    @raven: Clare is a wonderful place. I haven’t been in a while and I need to get back. I don;t know of any Downs in my family. but I have a Timothy Dowd that is one of my main genealogical mysteries.

  173. 173
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    As for having the tolerance, these are 2 very sweet and kind people who watch out for my place and I theirs.

    Relationship seems to be key here. That’s one of the things we’re working on in our local Democratic party – building relationships as a form of organizing. I hope to get my Ward committee members to host coffees in their homes and invite friends and neighbors to chat and listen as part of our outreach efforts. Contacting people only during elections to get their votes can be too transactional. We want to create positive connections first.

    ETA: The “listening” part is to listen to the guests, so that we understand their concerns and they feel heard.

  174. 174
    Quinerly says:

    @O. Felix Culpa:
    Thanks for posting this.

  175. 175
    HeleninEire says:

    @raven: Clare is beautiful. Next county over from where I am now. The entire west coast is beautiful.

  176. 176
    Quinerly says:

    Some good news. Little national coverage: http://thehill.com/blogs/35040.....-elections

  177. 177
    NotMax says:

    @HeleninEire

    Have a happy!

    @Betty Cracker

    Mugwumps have existed since long before there were fences for them to sit upon.

  178. 178
    InternetDragons says:

    It’s a very good book – and I say that as a voter who has never been very fond of Hillary as a candidate (I did vote for her in the general election, of course).

    Even if you fear your current levels of rage/pain/disgust prevent you from being able to enjoy the book, I would encourage you to consider just starting it, and then see how you feel. It’s a pretty positive experience even given the current nightmare in the White House. I told myself that if she was strong enough to write the thing, I could certainly be strong enough to read it – and I’m glad I have (currently about 50% through it. Yes, I know I read fast =P).

    I wouldn’t see the book as a good book club possibility, though – the folks here are pretty well-informed, and I don’t think the book covers anything that hasn’t been thoroughly discussed here already. It’s still very much worth a read – because it’s important to hear her perspective on how things went down.

  179. 179
    Quinerly says:

    Morning laugh. Porn site selling Cruz merchandise: http://thehill.com/blogs/in-th.....porn-tweet

  180. 180
    HeleninEire says:

    @NotMax: Thanks. That was very thoughtful.

  181. 181
    Quinerly says:

    Interesting piece from TPM today on FB and the Russia probe: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/e.....ssia-probe

  182. 182
    Another Scott says:

    @satby: Good points. You have lived this stuff all your life. I’m not minimizing your experiences.

    It’s infuriating.

    But we need to keep our eyes on the prize. How do we get to where we want to be? IMO, there isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution. We have to be willing to take a chance and try to persuade even some of the Neanderthals, while we’re also doing everything we can to get people who mostly or totally agree with us to turn out.

    “… , we need a majority!” ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  183. 183
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    I loved singing that round in Brownie Scouts!

  184. 184
  185. 185

    @OzarkHillbilly: I also think it is because of how dominant the United States has been post WWII. The United States could ignore the world (at least the ordinary citizen could) but the rest of the world did not have that luxury. Unfortunately, people in their infinite wisdom have voted for a leadership that is proud of its ignorance.

    ETA: For example if you go to Canada, the newscast devotes at least 50% of the time to its southern neighbor, while over here Canada barely is worth a mention.

  186. 186
    The Lodger says:

    @HeleninEire: Happy birthday Helen!

  187. 187
    HeleninEire says:

    @The Lodger: Thanks

  188. 188
    geg6 says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m sure this thread is dead, but I just have to say how fervently I agree with you. I have no patience for this bullshit excuse making. I have a very busy life, with many responsibilities and a demanding job that has me often working 50-60 hours a week, on top of all my personal responsibilities. I know many others in the same boat or even more tapped for time than I am who can manage to keep up on how our fucking government is being run and who is running it. Maybe if these lazy assholes could manage to pay attention for an hour or two a week, we all wouldn’t be so goddam stressed for time, energy and money. Fuck them.

  189. 189
    Elizabelle says:

    I’d be up for a Hillary book thread.

    Will buy it, eventually, but too early for me to read it. I think … more evidence of HRC’s strength; that she could write it at all.

    Those who react badly to her book — there’s your leading indicator that you’re dealing with a jerk or a media Trump enabler. I did see the Amazon reviews thread was overtaken by trolls. Amazon could do something about that, you know.

  190. 190
    Quinerly says:

    @NotMax:
    ❤💜💚

  191. 191
    Elizabelle says:

    @HeleninEire: Happy Birthday! Make some birthday history, in Galway.

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    geg6 says:

    @satby:

    You are exactly right here. Men, however enlightened, can never understand how often we are dismissed and ignored.

    I’m over it and I’m in my Howard Beale stage of life, which I plan to never leave.

  193. 193
    Kathleen O'Neill says:

    @HeleninEire: Happy Birthday!

  194. 194
    Kathleen O'Neill says:

    @HeleninEire: My grandmother was Helen O’Neill!

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    Gretchen says:

    @HeleninEire: Happy birthday! I’m another midwesterner who lives vicariously through your adventures. I hope you are starting another year of great times. I was encouraged by your saying you’re 55 and feel 25. I’m hoping that when I retire in January I’ll be able to pay enough attention to my health to feel younger. Enjoy your day!

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    Gretchen says:

    And yes, I’d love a Clinton book thread.

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    HeleninEire says:

    @Elizabelle: Thanks

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    HeleninEire says:

    @Gretchen: Friend me on FB. Its all there. Mostly it’s about eating in new restaurants, and going to movies and the book club, but still..its super fun. The people here are marvelous.

  199. 199
    Stan says:

    @opiejeanne:

    She looked to be about 35. I can’t deal with people who don’t bother to be informed. It drives me wild.

    Maybe she has kids and works multiple jobs and has no money and is exhausted pretty much all the time and doesn’t give a rats ass about politics right now even though she knows she should? Because that describes me in my 20s and 30s.

  200. 200
    Stan says:

    @Quinerly:

    I do have to fault her for admitting in the Terry Gross interview that she didn’t vote.

    Some journos (and military) consider that part of the professional ethic. Not all, I know, but some.

  201. 201
    DCF says:

    What Happened
    Subtitle: I’ll take the responsibility – but not the blame.

    Hillary Clinton: What Happened In 2016 Election
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV2Gg2HxH2U
    Yup, Hillary Clinton Blames Barack Obama
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fqlM78a0Gc

  202. 202
    Elizabelle says:

    @BC in Illinois: Thank you. Ordering the book now. Appreciated your review.

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    geg6 says:

    @Stan:

    Maybe she has kids and works multiple jobs and has no money and is exhausted pretty much all the time and doesn’t give a rats ass about politics right now even though she knows she should?

    Or maybe she is too lazy to take the few minutes it takes every day to keep up with current events. My mother had six kids and a full-time job and my dad worked shifts in a steel mill and a second job at a cemetery digging graves when he wasn’t in the mill. In addition to caring for my mother’s elderly father, who lived with us. And they both kept up on current events and made sure that we kids were aware of them and discussed them with us. No sympathy. None at all. I don’t really give a shit about these people’s excuses. If you care at all about your country and your family, you pay attention. Otherwise, you are doing harm to your country and your family. So any bullshit about being overworked and concerned for family welfare doesn’t go over well with me at all. Because I know it’s bullshit.

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    Psych1 says:

    “I’m with her ” is what gave us Trump. That’s what happened.

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    thalarctosMaritimus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Hi, SiubhanDuinne!

    I just sent you a friend request, real-life name Ravensara Travillian.

    opiejeanne will vouch for me :) .

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