Late Night Open Thread: Every Little Grift & Cranny…

Of course aspiring Chinese parents have been working this “loophole” for a while now — guess Donald thought it only fair that his personal crime family get to pry a few more rubles out of Russian citizens who hold American citizenship higher than he ever did…

113 replies
  1. 1
    frosty says:

    Oh, hell, I can’t even “I can’t even”. Make it stop.

  2. 2
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Penetration at all levels.

  3. 3
    efgoldman says:

    Donald thought it only fair that his personal crime family get to pry a few more rubles out of Russian citizens who hold American citizenship higher than he ever did…

    I really hope Mueller and his gang find every single fucking penny, down to a tenth of a cent, that Velveeta Voldemort and his grifter family gained illicitly from the government, foreigners, business partners and each other, and charge them with felonies for each one.

  4. 4
    opiejeanne says:

    When I was a kid it was pregnant Mexican ladies crossing the border to give birth in the US, in one of the border towns’ hospitals. I didn’t know how true it was but everyone “knew” it.

  5. 5

    @Adam L Silverman: isn’t that simply a euphemism for “Trump has screwed us every which way possible”?

  6. 6
    opiejeanne says:

    @efgoldman: Amen.

  7. 7
    patrick II says:

    Speaking of grift, while watching Chris Hayes tonight, I saw an ad for the new “Megyn Kelly Today” show. In the ad Megyn was shown hugging two African-American ladies while saying her new show was all about making connections. That’s quite a change from her Fox News “Terrorist fist bump” days.

  8. 8
    frosty says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh, hell. Because these aren’t just ordinary oligarchs, are they? They’re KGB or whateverthehelltheyarenow, getting a foot in the door in yet another way.

  9. 9
    Mnemosyne says:

    There was a big sting operation here in California a few years ago where they arrested some companies that arranged “birth tourism” for rich Chinese women. None of the expectant mothers were arrested, because it’s not a crime to give birth while you’re on vacation in the US, it’s only a crime to help people arrange to do that.

    But, whatever. I’m sitting by a firepit in Lake Arrowhead after completing another 4,000 words of my novel and feeling pretty good about this retreat. Not sure if I’m going to write tomorrow or read one of my research books and brainstorm some new scenes.

  10. 10
    debbie says:

    Hmm, I figured that photo was Eric and Lara’s newborn. A new addition to the grifter mob.

  11. 11
    Corner Stone says:

    @Adam L Silverman: We still talking about Ted Cruz’s twitter feed?

  12. 12

    @Mnemosyne: porque no los dos?

    ETA: and way to go! How was cardio hill?

  13. 13
    efgoldman says:

    @patrick II:

    In the ad Megyn was shown hugging two African-American ladies

    After which she sprayed her whole body and all her clothes with Black-Cootie-Pruf©

  14. 14
    Corner Stone says:

    This Kimberly Atkins from the Boston Herald can go and fuck right the fuck off AFAIAC.

  15. 15
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    No habla. Wha?

    ETA: My knees are very angry with me right now thanks to Cardio Hill and every other hill and staircase in the place. Good thing I brought hiking shoes and not just sneakers.

  16. 16
    randy khan says:

    Since it’s an open thread.

    Yesterday was the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, of course, but today’s the anniversary of the day after, and I find myself in retrospect thinking about 9/12 almost as much as 9/11.

    D.C. on 9/11 was strange, but kind of in a way that was understandable – it was very clear right away that this was a huge terrorist attack, and horrific as it was, there was a frame of reference for it that nearly everybody could grasp. D.C. on 9/12 felt like a different place.

    I took Metro to work because the garage in my building had been closed after a false alarm about a white panel truck parked in front of the building led to us evacuating. (In a rare moment of (black) comedy that day, the powers that be in my office decided initially that we should just move to the side of building away from the street where the van was parked before making us evacuate, as if nobody had seen any photos of what a truck bomb could do to a building.) The streets weren’t entirely empty, but a lot of people stayed home, which made the city feel sort of vacant. The surreal bit, though, was that there were soldiers, with rifles out, stationed at most of the important intersections. Walking from the Foggy Bottom Metro station to my office a few blocks away, I probably passed twenty of them, just standing there, waiting for something to happen. There didn’t seem to be any particular reason for them, since no invasion was imminent, and since soldiers on the ground would have been unable to prevent the attacks in the first place, but there they were. It was like I was in another country.

    Eventually I noticed that there were no planes in the air. D.C. is unusual among American cities in having an airport just a couple of miles from the center of the city, and despite all of the restrictions on the paths planes can take near the White House and Capitol, you see (and hear) them all the time. It’s just part of the background if you work in the city. And they weren’t there. It just felt wrong

    Of course, in the end it turned out that the things that were strange on 9/12 went away pretty fast. The bigger, and more significant changes in the city weren’t visible on the street – they were happening in the White House, at the CIA, and eventually in Congress. But on 9/12, I didn’t know about that; I just knew my city seemed very different to me.

  17. 17
  18. 18
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ: No. It refers to a concerted, long term Russian government/Putin initiative to penetrate political, social, and religious movements, as well as business in the US and other western states and societies. Every time I sit down to write up a post on this something new breaks and I put it aside for a few days. But simply put connections have been made by Russian actors with the NRA, the folks behind the National Prayer Breakfast, US business interests, the Texas and California secession movements (the former being a complete creation of the Russians, which has no coopted 1/2 the county Republican party committees in Texas), the leadership of the US Green Party (so both a left and right side of the political spectrum penetration and active measure influence operation), social media (also aimed at both the left and right), and the far/extreme right movements under the alt-right and alt-light labels, as well as groups like the Oath Keepers, III % folks, Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association (CSPOA – hence David Clarke’s Russian junket with the NRA), and other “patriot” groups (hence the connections made to the NRA).

    The purpose of all of these activities is to make connections to groups, movements, and organizations on one or both sides of major political, economic, social, religious, and/or business divides and then rip those open to create chaos within the US and the other countries where Russia is doing this. What we’re seeing now that a variety of reporters and others have been looking into this stuff is just the tip of the iceberg. Every new article. Every new report or piece of analysis provides more and more data on the actual size and shape of the iceberg. And just how deadly it is.

  19. 19
    Mnemosyne says:

    @randy khan:

    That sounds like the days after the LA riots when the CA National Guard was in the city. It was very surreal to go to the grocery store and have a truckload of bored soldiers with M-16s parked outside watching everyone go in and out.

  20. 20
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I think the NH state constitution mandates every other citizen be in the state House, but still….

    Jesse Ferguson‏Verified account @ JesseFFerguson 2h2 hours ago
    NEWS. Democrats just won a NH House seat that Trump had won by 17% in 2016

    John DiStaso @ jdistaso
    Belknap 9 @ NHHouseofReps Democrat St. Clair wins over GOPer Whalley, unofficial totals are 1,267-1009, or 258 votes/56-44% #nhpolitics #WMUR

    ETA: also, too

    Ryan Grim‏Verified account @ ryangrim 2h2 hours ago
    In a 31-point swing, Democrats just flipped another district in Oklahoma that had gone convincingly to Trump

  21. 21
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I had no idea that one of my favorite commercials had become an official meme!

    I’ll probably do at least some writing tomorrow, but I don’t want to push to 4,000 words when there are other book-related things I want to do as well.

    My heroine has a plan that I know is going to fail, but she hasn’t told me what it is yet. I just found out about it today.

  22. 22
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: You are a very patient person.

  23. 23
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @frosty: Every oligarch is in a parasitic relationship with Putin. If they all combined they have enough control over enough wealth to get rid of him. However, because he protects them as long as they play ball and they don’t trust each other, they can’t organize together. And they’ve seen what he does when one of them breaks ranks. So even those who aren’t former Soviet or Russian intel, and a lot of them are, or who aren’t Russian organized crime, and a lot of them are as well, are going to do what he wants done as he serves as their krysha (ceiling) – the member of Russian organized crime who protects those below them.

  24. 24
    opiejeanne says:

    @Mnemosyne: How’s the weather? We can’t get there until the end of October at the earliest, when the garden is finished for the year.

  25. 25
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Corner Stone: Don’t know the particular individual, but can assure you that the Boston Herald is known for hiring only those individuals too ragey and subliterate to staff the NY Post. Main reason Boston remains a two-daily town!

  26. 26

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Jeebers. When Putin dies there’s going to be a bloodbath, isn’t there?

  27. 27

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    It would be interesting to see breakdown on those numbers. I suspect we’re seeing a giant surge in motivation among normally unreliable voters.

  28. 28
    Redshift says:

    In other news, Hans von Spakovsky is apparently a true believer on “voter fraud,” not just a grifter.

    More details at the link, but a letter was sent anonymously from the Heritage Foundation complaining about Democrats and mainstream Republicans being included in the sham “voter fraud” commission, and insisting that there are only a handful of “experts” on this issue, all of them conservative, and Kobach (gag!) is the only one of those who is on the commission.

    It was leaked to reporters, and von Spakovsky denied he wrote it. Then Heritage confirmed that he did.

  29. 29
    Mnemosyne says:


    It’s been pretty warm the past few days — 80+, and I only brought one pair of shorts. 😱

    But it’s cooling off tonight and should be in the low to mid 60s by the time we check out on Friday.

    Today was a little annoying because a big new group checked in and were populating all my favorite spots. Feh.

  30. 30
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: I hope so, or the flip side, loss of enthusiasm by trump voters. Or a little of this and a little of that.

  31. 31
    Mnemosyne says:


    HVS is an actual goddamned straight from Germany Nazi. His dad was one, and he raised little Hans to be just like him. That fucking fucker.

  32. 32

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Demotivation will last only as long as Trump embarrasses them. Newly angry liberals might last forever. Once people become aware just how much is on the line with politics, they tend to stay aware. Republicans have been aware for a long time, it’s just that the thing they noticed is ‘impending white obsolescence.’

  33. 33
    Corner Stone says:

    Sarah Huckabee Sanders has rocketed to near the top of the charts for most punchable faces in DC.

  34. 34
    opiejeanne says:

    @Mnemosyne: The second night of the riots it was so quiet in downtown Riverside it was eerie. No freeway noise, no cars in the neighborhood, no kids, and at midnight there were no dogs barking. I went outside just to listen and was stunned by the lack of noise. We had two very minor incidents, attempted incidents really, no one hurt and no property damage.
    I didn’t sleep any of those nights, just sat up listening and waiting.

  35. 35
    Mnemosyne says:


    Random question — do you have any interest in teaching about writing? If so, email me. Mnemosyne dot Muse at gmail. I may have a lead for you.

  36. 36
    Corner Stone says:

    I’ll tell you where this candid HRC was during the campaign, Brian Williams. She was answering 100 god damned questions about her fucking emails every day. Ask your boy Matt Lauer where this candid version of HRC was.
    You son of a bitch.

  37. 37
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: Very likely.

  38. 38
    frosty says:

    @Mnemosyne: 4,000 words! Wow, nice work!

    I have an academic paper that I’ve stalled on for two months because I’ve come to realize I.D.Not.Like.To.Write, even though I’m sorta good at it. I’d rather sit in my cubbyhole and figure out how to build hydrologic and water quality models with insufficient data and try to make them work.

    Unfortunately, at some point I still have to write up the results.

  39. 39
    Redshift says:

    @Mnemosyne: Bob McDonnell put him on our county board of elections, because I live in the biggest Democratic-leaning county in Virginia. Spent four years with him pulling whatever crap he could get away with.

  40. 40
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Redshift: von Spakovsky doesn’t believe in democracy. He never has.

  41. 41
    Timurid says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’m not sure they’ve thought their cunning plan all the way through.
    Russia is a petro state, and the oil business is only viable in a functional and growing world economy. Real chaos in the US and Western Europe and the resulting economic fallout are going to limit demand for energy, not increase it.

  42. 42
    NoraLenderbee says:

    Happy anniversary to my parents. It would be their 69th.

    We’re spending a week in Mammoth, CA, hiking in the granite mountains. Today we saw a double rainbow following a hailstorm. Thanks to the wet winter, there are carpets of wildflowers in the high meadows. It’s grand.

  43. 43
    Batten Down the Hatches says:

    @Mnemosyne: OT but how was the tall ship sailing? I’ve been swamped the past few days and have barely been online so if you posted about it in one of the threads here I almost certainly missed it.

  44. 44
    lgerard says:


    von Spakovsky denied he wrote it. Then Heritage confirmed that he did

    Knew it!

  45. 45
    Slaughter says:

    @Redshift: The funniest thing about the von Spakovsky episode is that Charlie Pierce tweeted that he was right behind the reporter when von Spakovsky denied writing the letter — and that he had taped the denial!

  46. 46
    frosty says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I’ve never seen that one. This is the scene that comes to mind when I hear that phrase:

    League of Their Own

  47. 47
    efgoldman says:


    When Putin dies there’s going to be a bloodbath, isn’t there?

    Even Pootie Kazootie knows deep down that nobody lives forever, including him. You’d think he’d go somewhere where he can live the life of an international playperson with his billions, most of which, I’d guess. is no longer in rubles.

  48. 48
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Batten Down the Hatches:

    I didn’t have a chance to post about it because I left for Lake Arrowhead the very next day. We had a great time, though there was a little too much shooting off of cannons and they did have to cheat a bit and use the engine.

    But the weather was perfect and the ride was very smooth. I took non-drowsy OTC motion sickness medicine, brought some ginger candy, wore a couple of Sea Bands, and kept my eye on the horizon and I was fine. I spent most of my time sitting near the back where the captain was. Ruckus doesn’t get seasick, so he wasn’t worried. Ask him to tell you about his North Atlantic days with the Navy sometime.

    It was about a 3-hour cruise, so I really felt I got my money’s worth.

  49. 49
    opiejeanne says:

    @Mnemosyne: Did Ruckus go too? Sounds like a great day out.

  50. 50
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    A very cute thread about the Cassini probe that will crash into Saturn on Friday.

  51. 51
    frosty says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Please turn off the news and write this post. There’s things in here I didn’t know about.

  52. 52

    He certainly does not give a damn what chaos follows in the power vacuum he leaves.

  53. 53
    SectionH says:

    @Mnemosyne: Write On!

  54. 54
    Mnemosyne says:


    He did! It was helpful to have an old salt along.

    In retrospect, we should have grabbed sandwiches before heading down rather than wasting time waiting for the food truck line, but live and learn.

  55. 55
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Corner Stone: No!

  56. 56
    Aleta says:

    @randy khan: It was similar where I was; I still remember the unusual emptiness overhead and the strange quiet . An island off the coast, and the plane traffic normally overhead was gone (it.lies right under a route between Europe and Boston/NYC). And because there were no local air flights on the mainland, the lobstering and other fishing up and down the coast completely stopped because the air shipping (and I think the freight trucking for awhile) had stopped. No sounds of motors in the harbor or in the waters out around. We couldn’t get any newspapers for quite awhile. The weather was unbelievably clear and brilliant day after day, for weeks, which also seemed surreal.

  57. 57
    frosty says:


    My heroine has a plan that I know is going to fail, but she hasn’t told me what it is yet. I just found out about it today.

    Cool! I see authors write this sort of thing a lot. The idea of letting go of being the control freak writing the book and letting the characters live is at the heart of it. I tried many years ago and wrote myself into a box. Maybe with some years of experience I might try again …

    Except for that I.Do.Not.Like.To.Write thing :-)

  58. 58
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Haha, I have the same problem writing Russia posts. Have largely given up.

  59. 59
    opiejeanne says:

    @frosty: It sounds exactly like we were paranoid about during the Cold War, wrt Russian infiltration of our institutions.

  60. 60
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I have been involved in a long term project to learn all possible practical applications of patience.

  61. 61
    Another Scott says:

    @patrick II: That was “E.D. Hill”, not Kelly, according to the Google machine.


  62. 62
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: It will be interesting to watch. Especially since it is unclear who, if anyone, is the actual heir apparent.

  63. 63
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Redshift: And two reporters, one of them Charlie Pierce, have recordings of him saying that in answer to a question to the first reporter whose name I can’t recall. But she’s with Pro Publica. And she does excellent work.

  64. 64

    I am on the exact opposite end of that. Detailed outlining lets me create satisfying plot twists, make sure all the important themes get represented, that characters get a chance to show off who they are, that I can fit in all the crazy things I dream up, that the book is long enough, and most importantly that when I sit down I can just bleed on the page, because I don’t have to think about what plot event comes next. The skeleton is there, ready to support whatever beauty I create.

  65. 65
    SectionH says:

    @Mnemosyne: I was so damn tempted to try to get on that ship too. (It was the drive up there I couldn’t face.) I’m really happy that it worked well enough for you.

  66. 66
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Timurid: I do not disagree with you.

  67. 67
    lgerard says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Next question

    Who in the DOJ redacted his name?

  68. 68
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: The reason he’s empowered and protected the oligarchs and the organized crime guys is part of the deal he’s made with them. He empowers and protects them, they give him a cut, make him the wealthiest person on the planet, squirrel his money away and clean it so that it can’t be touched by prosecutors anywhere, and when he does die his family are able to access his fortune and therefore protected and taken care of. This is the deal Yeltsin cut with him. He kept his part of the bargain, as did Yeltsin, which is why Putin is running Russia now and Yeltsin’s family will never want for anything ever again.

  69. 69
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: She’s going to kill Colonel Mustard in the conservatory with a candlestick.

    There you go, you’re all set now.//

  70. 70
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Zee money, follow zee money…

  71. 71
    skerry says:

    Check out @CIA earlier today about lives lost in Benghazi.


  72. 72
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lgerard: Who knows.

  73. 73
    Batten Down the Hatches says:

    @Mnemosyne: So glad to hear all this, especially about the wonderful weather! The number of ways you pre-treated your potential seasickness is impressive in its thoroughness, and I’m glad it worked out. (Sometimes, despite ALL efforts…) You may have also discovered how much smoother and more pleasant the ride is at the stern of a ship. There’s a reason the commanding officers traditionally lived astern and made the crew sleep in the focsl.

    I have never sailed in the North Atlantic but I’ve heard stories. Ruckus has my full admiration for coming back in one piece.

  74. 74
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @efgoldman: He already is somewhere where he has absolute, unquestioned power and wants for nothing. Why would he give that up and move to London or Geneva?

  75. 75
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @frosty: As I was saying:

  76. 76

    @Frankensteinbeck: much of what I write takes place in bizarre liminal spaces, and I find that my best method is to know the beginning and the ending and the big landmarks in between, then let the thing meander all over the place when I first write it. I then collect all the serendipity and make it look intentional and tighten everything up.

  77. 77

    @Adam L Silverman: Wendi Deng is such a goddamned James Bond character.

  78. 78

    Pictures from last night’s ~7,000 Bay Area lightning flashes.

  79. 79

    @Major Major Major Major:
    ‘Make it look intentional’ is one of the prime skills any writer develops. Closely associated with ‘plausible bullshit explanations.’ Varying levels of planning clearly work for different writers. I’m a bit defensive because the ‘write it as I go’ method is presented universally as the truly artistic and creative one. We architects are just as inspired and into our characters, and it grinds on my nerves sometimes that we’re presented as if we sacrifice that for our plots.

  80. 80

    @Frankensteinbeck: I should have been clearer that I meant the best method for me, in the context of what I usually write. I’m also working casually on a detective story that’s requiring careful outlining, because mystery.

    I’ve found that my life is easier if I just ignore most of what folks say about how things should be, barring obvious examples like pants, taxes, and the dentist.

  81. 81

    Of course aspiring Chinese parents have been working this “loophole” for a while now

    Koreans too, one of madame’s childhood friend’s daughter was just here to have her baby. They can avoid the compulsory military service by having US citizenship.

  82. 82
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: She actually works on behalf of the PRC. That’s how she met Murdoch. She was one of the points of contact when he negotiated with them to run their news portal. My guess is she was as much honey pot as anything else. Once the PRC found out what she needed to know, and she secured for herself US citizenship, and native born American child, and enough money in the divorce to never have to work again, she divorced him. I do not know what, if any, connection she still has with the PRC.

  83. 83

    @Adam L Silverman: There was also the minor incident with Tony Blair. Etc. Obvious Bond villain’s second-in-command.

  84. 84
    Mary G says:

    Happy to see long lines for Hillary’s book tour:

    MSM mystified that people lining up for blocks to see @HillaryClinton when they insisted no one was interested.🙄— Victoria Brownworth (@VABVOX) September 12, 2017

  85. 85
    Mnemosyne says:


    I’m a bit defensive because the ‘write it as I go’ method is presented universally as the truly artistic and creative one.

    I thought I had a complete outline, and then I laid it all out on notecards and realized I had gaps in my plot. Pretty big ones. The joys of the first novel …

  86. 86

    @Mnemosyne: Huh, yeah, I guess this is my third, isn’t it? I’ve only ever tried to publish one, some time back.

  87. 87
    NotMax says:


    the ‘write it as I go’ method is presented universally as the truly artistic and creative one

    But then again, everyone isn’t Kerouac.

    And wouldn’t it be a more mundane and pedestrian world if they were?

  88. 88

    @Adam L Silverman: I knew what you meant. My response was a feeble attempt at a joke. Because I’d rather be laughing than crying, which is what I feel like doing every time I hear about just how deeply our Democracy has been compromised. I know the average American has no idea the depth of the problem and probably never will and it frustrates me to no end. So there’s only a couple of ways that frustration gets vented. Personally I turn to humor. No offense was meant.

  89. 89
    seaboogie says:

    @randy khan: I was in Miami at 9/11, nearby to MIA. So nearby that you had to go indoors when talking on a mobile phone, because of da noise of da planes.

    So equally eerie on the eve of 9/11 without plane noise, until you heard the fighter jets from Homestead AFB overhead.

    As surreal as that was then, these times seem more disturbing now.

  90. 90

    @Mary G:
    CNN was discussing that while I was at the bank. The anchorwoman was astonished by the cheering crowds, asked her conservative guest, and he told her that it was only because the book signing happened in a super-liberal area. I can’t believe anyone has ‘can’t get credit’ problems worse than Obama, but Hillary does.

  91. 91

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: As I’ve said before(but have no data to back it up), is that Trump got alot of new(Trump, and ONLY Trump) voters out. Kay’s mentioned that election folk she knows were remarking on folk not knowing how to vote last November and we’re talking about areas that Trump won.

  92. 92

    @NotMax: kerouac didn’t write, he typed!

  93. 93
    seaboogie says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: Black men got the vote before white women.* Imma go research this, but I believe it is correct – or yuca not correct me.If you read misogyny into every last thing, you will not go wrong. Most especially wrt Hillary. She is mostly grace under relentless pressure.

  94. 94
    seaboogie says:

    @seaboogie: So research done: 15th Ammendment gave black men the right to vote in 1870 (but poll taxes, Jim Crow, etc). 19th amendment in 1919 gave women the right to vote.

    Something for the Wilmerists to consider wrt today.

  95. 95
    Mnemosyne says:


    Black men got the vote before white women.*

    In some places, yes. If you ever see a vintage production of “The Front Page,” there’s a whole exchange in there about who is or isn’t going to get “the Negro vote” in an upcoming Chicago election. But you also had Jim Crow and other race-based voter discrimination, which meant that black men who should have been permitted to vote were denied their voting rights.

    It’s interesting to look up the counties that were specifically named in the Voting Rights Act as counties that were under strict scrutiny, because they weren’t always where you’d assume. One was Alameda County right here in California.

    ETA: And since we’re bringing up the past anyway, no black women were allowed to vote at all until 1920 so, as usual, black women got screwed from both sides by racism AND sexism.

  96. 96
    jl says:


    Interesting to see Alameda County mentioned in that context. I think I mentioned once before that I read someplace that after WWII Alameda County and some of its cities made of point of recruiting law enforcement officers from the South, because they ‘knew how to deal’ with certain kind of people. Mainly a lot of black factory workers and military people who came with the war effort. Would be interesting to find a history of race issues in Alameda County. Oakland police department is still corrupt and messed up.

  97. 97
    SectionH says:

    @seaboogie: Yes they did. 1870 In theory anyway. I know, I know, but yeah. 1870.

    50 years later women got the same theoretical right.

  98. 98
    Calming Influence says:

    @Mnemosyne: link to big sting operation?

  99. 99
    joel hanes says:

    Open thread ? OK, then. In blogtopia:

    – Jon Talton has resumed blogging at Rogue Columnist. Residents of the southwest, esp. AZ, should read.

    – John McKay, who blogs at Archy and at Mammoth Tales, has finally published his book, a deep-dive into science history, in which he examines the discovery and recognition of mammoths and mastodons as extinct species with worldwide distribution. Today’s post on Archy is a pretty good sample.

    – Lance Mannion continues to do fine work at Mannionvile.
    – Ditto Shaun Mullen at Kiko’s House

    Linking to all would put me in moderation; a tiny bit of google should find any of those.

    We enlightenment liberals need to stick together.

  100. 100
    opiejeanne says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Beautiful! Gorgeous!

  101. 101
    cosima says:

    @randy khan: I was thinking about that yesterday. My parents were biking the Santa Fe Trail when it happened, camping along the way. So, they did not know that it had happened until they decided to stop to eat at a café with a television, can’t remember what the date was, the 12th, 13th? 14th? Anyway, yesterday I was thinking that they were riding along unaware of the momentous tragedy that had happened, just as we were all completely unaware that it would be tragic in an exponential fashion, laying groundwork for profoundly detrimental changes to the US, and that those would then ripple out to adversely affect every corner of the world.

  102. 102
    burnspbesq says:

    R.I.P. Edie Windsor, the plaintiff in the case in which the Supremes found the Defense of Marriage Act unconstitutional. She should be remembered the same way we remember Oliver Brown and Norma McCorvey.

  103. 103
    Amir Khalid says:

    I think you mean “If Putin dies …”

  104. 104
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    In times past, marriages between powerful aristocratic and royal families were often arranged between the kings/lords for political/diplomatic reasons. I guess this is the modern, oligarchic version — business is involved too.

  105. 105
    Kathleen says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: I saw John Scalzi interviewed on a local Public Television program about local SW Ohio artists and he said every writer has his/her own process and the writer needs to respect what works best for him/her.

  106. 106
    Van Buren says:

    Wasn’t the 12th the day Cheney convened a meeting dedicated to hashing out how they could turn the events of the 11th to their advantage?

  107. 107
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Van Buren:
    Cheney waited a whole day to figure out how to profit from September 11?

  108. 108
    Gator90 says:

    So my family and I, ordinarily South Florida residents, have spent the past several days as guest evacuees in the home of an older white Alabama couple whose son is a longtime friend of mine. They have been extraordinarily gracious hosts and are a delight to converse with, except when people of a certain hue are under discussion. It is not in my nature to be silent in the presence of racist commentary, but in these instances I have swallowed hard and kept my mouth shut, reminding myself that the offending speaker is currently putting a roof over my kids’ heads.

    White Alabamans are basically the nicest people on earth — at least to other white people — and yet their social and political views are so warped. I don’t get it.

    As we have been exploring the county in which we found shelter, total strangers upon discerning the nature of our plight have stopped to offer us good wishes and to inform us they are praying for us. And I know they fucking voted for Trump.

  109. 109
    Origuy says:

    @jl: San Leandro, south of Oakland, was almost all white into the 1960s; there were restrictive covenants. Comedian Brian Copeland does a one-man-show about growing up as one of the few African Americans in San Leandro.

  110. 110
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    In times past, marriages between powerful aristocratic and royal families were often arranged between the kings/lords for political/diplomatic reasons. I guess this is the modern, oligarchic version — business is involved too.

    To be honest, those kingly “political” reasons usually involved what we call “business”: which families controlled the best farms, the trade routes, the most valuable resources. “Money” was the mother’s milk of politics almost as soon as the concept of “money” was invented. And, from my reading, whenever a not-enobled class with spare money has arisen (in dynastic Egypt, mandarin China, classical Rome, feudal Europe, Japan… ) there’s been an immediate spike in CONCERN about rich parvenus getting their unworthy offspring into the “best” society by selling their daughters to powerful-but-impoverished nobility…

  111. 111
    randy khan says:


    The 15th Amendment caused a significant split in the suffragist movement. Some wanted to push to include women’s suffrage in it, while others felt it was important to secure voting rights for black men and that women would come soon after. In retrospect, it seems that both sides were partly right and partly wrong – it probably wouldn’t have been possible to pass an amendment for universal suffrage, but at the same time the wait to get women the vote was long enough that none of the original suffragists were alive by the time it happened. Also, there was a fair amount of overlap between suffragists and the abolitionist movement, which was part of why there were women who supported the 15th Amendment as it was passed from the start.

  112. 112

    White Alabamans are basically the nicest people on earth — at least to other white people — and yet their social and political views are so warped. I don’t get it.

    @Gator90: They come from a society in which “knowing your place” – and that’s white, black, green, whatever – is paramount. And so long as everyone knows their place and behaves accordingly, they are nice. Extremely nice.

    If someone starts behaving in a manner outside of their place, it goes to shit very quickly. Scares ’em.

    I was the first one on either side of my family born outside of Alabama in over 150 years. Deep roots there. And I can give you observations all day long, but since I wasn’t born or raised there, I don’t understand them on any fundamental level at all.

  113. 113
    louc says:

    @Redshift: I hate that guy so much. His parents were refugees. He has some nerve.

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