Barack Obama said that one thing might make him speak out after his presidency ended, and that was if Trump messed with DACA. He does not disappoint. This is his full statement.
Immigration can be a controversial topic. We all want safe, secure borders and a dynamic economy, and people of goodwill can have legitimate disagreements about how to fix our immigration system so that everybody plays by the rules.
But that’s not what the action that the White House took today is about. This is about young people who grew up in America – kids who study in our schools, young adults who are starting careers, patriots who pledge allegiance to our flag. These Dreamers are Americans in their hearts, in their minds, in every single way but one: on paper. They were brought to this country by their parents, sometimes even as infants. They may not know a country besides ours. They may not even know a language besides English. They often have no idea they’re undocumented until they apply for a job, or college, or a driver’s license.
Over the years, politicians of both parties have worked together to write legislation that would have told these young people – our young people – that if your parents brought you here as a child, if you’ve been here a certain number of years, and if you’re willing to go to college or serve in our military, then you’ll get a chance to stay and earn your citizenship. And for years while I was President, I asked Congress to send me such a bill.
That bill never came. And because it made no sense to expel talented, driven, patriotic young people from the only country they know solely because of the actions of their parents, my administration acted to lift the shadow of deportation from these young people, so that they could continue to contribute to our communities and our country. We did so based on the well-established legal principle of prosecutorial discretion, deployed by Democratic and Republican presidents alike, because our immigration enforcement agencies have limited resources, and it makes sense to focus those resources on those who come illegally to this country to do us harm. Deportations of criminals went up. Some 800,000 young people stepped forward, met rigorous requirements, and went through background checks. And America grew stronger as a result.
But today, that shadow has been cast over some of our best and brightest young people once again. To target these young people is wrong – because they have done nothing wrong. It is self-defeating – because they want to start new businesses, staff our labs, serve in our military, and otherwise contribute to the country we love. And it is cruel. What if our kid’s science teacher, or our friendly neighbor turns out to be a Dreamer? Where are we supposed to send her? To a country she doesn’t know or remember, with a language she may not even speak?
Let’s be clear: the action taken today isn’t required legally. It’s a political decision, and a moral question. Whatever concerns or complaints Americans may have about immigration in general, we shouldn’t threaten the future of this group of young people who are here through no fault of their own, who pose no threat, who are not taking away anything from the rest of us. They are that pitcher on our kid’s softball team, that first responder who helps out his community after a disaster, that cadet in ROTC who wants nothing more than to wear the uniform of the country that gave him a chance. Kicking them out won’t lower the unemployment rate, or lighten anyone’s taxes, or raise anybody’s wages.
It is precisely because this action is contrary to our spirit, and to common sense, that business leaders, faith leaders, economists, and Americans of all political stripes called on the administration not to do what it did today. And now that the White House has shifted its responsibility for these young people to Congress, it’s up to Members of Congress to protect these young people and our future. I’m heartened by those who’ve suggested that they should. And I join my voice with the majority of Americans who hope they step up and do it with a sense of moral urgency that matches the urgency these young people feel.
Ultimately, this is about basic decency. This is about whether we are a people who kick hopeful young strivers out of America, or whether we treat them the way we’d want our own kids to be treated. It’s about who we are as a people – and who we want to be.
What makes us American is not a question of what we look like, or where our names come from, or the way we pray. What makes us American is our fidelity to a set of ideals – that all of us are created equal; that all of us deserve the chance to make of our lives what we will; that all of us share an obligation to stand up, speak out, and secure our most cherished values for the next generation. That’s how America has traveled this far. That’s how, if we keep at it, we will ultimately reach that more perfect union.
Booger
Make America Great Again–Bring Back Barack!
japa21
@Booger: Seconded.
Trentrunner
Let’s all remember this kumbaya for a Democrat when that witch Hillary publishes her fucking book soon and the long fucking knives come out and we slash each other to fucking ribbons. Fuck!
japa21
OT except it is about the finest man to hold the office of the Presidency in my life time. With all the Congressional hearings about the whole Russia crap, why have they never called him as a witness? In an open hearing, of course. It would be interesting to hear him talk about how he tried to get McConnell on board with making an announcement and how McConnell refused.
randy khan
Dear God, I miss him.
Amaranthine RBG
Obama’s statement hit all the right notes
He is missed
?BillinGlendaleCA
@randy khan: I have a Republican friend who said the same thing.
efgoldman
@Trentrunner:
Anybody that goes there must be ignored and ostracized from the Democratic party.
Fuckem
debbie
Decency. Almost as archaic as … just archaic, period.
randy khan
@japa21:
So here’s how we do it: The Dems take control of the House in 2018 and impeach both Trump and Pence. Before the Senate finishes the trial, Nancy Pelosi temporarily steps down as Speaker of the House, and the Democrats choose Obama as the Speaker (since you don’t have to be a member of the House to be Speaker). When Trump and Pence are convicted in the trial, Obama becomes President.
It could happen. Maybe only theoretically, but it could happen.
smintheus
Also, whatever happened to the ‘full faith and credit’ of the federal government? Once you start collecting names and addresses of Dreamers under the promise of DACA, you don’t get to renege and use against them their trust in our government. That’s not just the American way, that’s the way of all civilized countries.
efgoldman
@randy khan:
We do love our procedural fantasies, don’t we?
Citizen Alan
@Trentrunner:
And pied!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@efgoldman: It’s fun like SciFi.
Hunter Gathers
@smintheus:
It is now.
Fuck White People
A Ghost to Not
@efgoldman:
Agreed. No time for splitters.
lamh36
Ugh…miss him and #ForeverFLOTUS everyday!
Shalimar
Obama needs to be speaking out on all of the issues where his policies are being over-turned. I know it is traditional for past presidents not to oppose those holding the office currently, but tradition went out the window with Trump. Barack Obama is the only national figure all non-Trump supporters can agree on. We need his leadership.
The Dangerman
Michelle 2020? Sorry, Baud.
Joe Falco
@?BillinGlendaleCA: And alternate history stories!
jl
An important bit from Obama’s statement. Throw bogus ‘rule of law’ cant back in anyone’s face who tries to peddle it.
” Let’s be clear: the action taken today isn’t required legally. It’s a political decision, ”
But Obama is being overly polite. I wouldn’t insult the word ‘political’ with the cowardly CYA BS Trump is trying to pull. It’s not even political in the sense that it is a coherent tactic to help one side or the other. Just to keep Trump out out the political and human carnage that will occur in the wake of a DACA repeal.
The Trumpsters sense that they don’t have the public with them on dumping DACA. That is why Trump sent Sessions out to do it, And Sessions larded up his statement with bunch of dishonest and false, and strictly speaking irrelevant, economic boilerplate to support it.
They are operating from a position of political weakness on this issue, which is what makes saving DACA possible, though still very difficult. We have to take advantage of that weakness.
MomSense
@randy khan:
I was just thinking the same thing.
Shalimar
@randy khan: I am not a constitutional lawyer, but I’m pretty sure that scenario would be illegal. Just as a past 2-term president can’t run as a vice-presidential candidate because it would put him next in line for an unconstitutional 3rd term, I don’t think he could accept appointment to any other position in the line of succession either for the same reason.
trollhattan
@The Dangerman:
While I’d (selfishly) love it I wouldn’t wish the experience on her in a thousand years. Tenish years of publicly biting her tongue while every conceivable insult was hurled her and her family’s way is enough service to the country.
Republicans fear her, of course.
gene108
I want to snark, but I can’t. I am not upset at Trump. We knew he’d do this. I am angry at all the assholes, who voted for him. They are responsible for all this suffering.
chris
Twitter link
The Dangerman
The second clause is our collective problem; Trump is amoral. He will accept a DACA bill if it gives him a wall.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Shalimar: The 22nd Amendment say the person can’t be elected, it doesn’t speak to assent to the office by order of succession.
zhena gogolia
@Citizen Alan:
I think it was snark.
zhena gogolia
@Shalimar:
I agree, but I don’t think he owes it to us. He tried to warn everyone. People needed to vote for Clinton.
Major Major Major Major
@Trentrunner:
Not quite sure what to make of this, but I will point out that the power to prevent yourselves from slashing other democrats to ribbons is yours and yours alone.
Jeffro
@Hunter Gathers: that’s helpful
Iowa Old Lady
Man, I miss Obama.
MomSense
@gene108:
I’m angry st the assholes who voted for him akdnthe assholes who voted for Stein and Johnson.
ruckus
@Citizen Alan:
I believe that given the commenter, this is snark.
jl
@chris: Can’t be true. Breaks the 27 percent bottom line crazy barrier. Reality would turn itself inside out and dump itself down the nearest privy if that happened.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
Nah, he’s not resetting — DACA kids are not citizens, so they can DIAF as far as he’s concerned.
I guarantee you that the next tactic is, Why do you libs care so much about people who aren’t even Americans? You should care about our own people first.
Bill Arnold
@jl:
Margin of error. The constant is 27%.
chris
@jl: The shitgibbon goes where no man has gone before. 27% is old math.
SiubhanDuinne
@japa21:
Makes me really wonder whether either Obama or Hillary has had a little sit-down with Bobby Three-Sticks in the past few months. Hillary, after all, was pretty definite about Trump’s Russia collusion in that debate (was it the third one?) — the one where he said “No puppet! No puppet! You’re the puppet!!”
cmorenc
@Booger:
If someone would make a hat with that logo, I would buy it in a second and wear it in public every single day. Although dark blue would be a more fitting color for Obama, maybe it should instead be a red matching the Trump ones – the better to induce double-take reactions from the sorts of assholes who wear the Trump version and are momentarily inclined to give you a thumbs-up and a smile until they realize what it says. That is, if the morons can read.
Villago Delenda Est
Well, that leaves Donald, Dense, and Jayuff high and dry.
Geeno
God! I do miss that man.
MomSense
Text Resist to 504-09 and tell your Congress critters to take action to protect our dreamers. It’s a free fax service and super easy to use.
Redshift
Since I haven’t managed to catch an open thread all day, I’ll drop this here. I get a daily digest of state politics and government news from the Virginia Public Access Project, and I noticed today that there were three op-eds from different parts of the state, all making the argument that really, Confederate statues can be important to “educate” or “be a starting point for an honest discussion.” (Including one from J.E.B. Stewart V, which includes such gems as “My great-great grandfather and many others who fought for the Confederacy never wrote about fighting to preserve the enslavement of other human beings.” Anyway.)
To me, this suggests they are realizing they lost the “heritage, not hate” argument the moment the Nazis marched in, and they’re looking for a fallback position. But I’ve always been an optimist.
vhh
@The Dangerman: I can imagine giving Trump $500M to explore building a wall, complete with a requirement that it be put to a vote in the states that would host it. Of course, the vote would fail miserably in Texas, for the simple reason that ranchers with property on the border won’t give there land up up. (The entire TX GOP Congressional delegation opposes the wall).
japa21
@Redshift: And actually, there is some merit to the basic argument. The problem is not that there isn’t some historical significance but that those folks should not be given a place of honor in the public venue.
debbie
@chris:
Any idea where those numbers came from, other than some guy’s Twitter feed? Just curious.
JMG
A niece and nephew of mine attend J.E.B Stuart high school in Fairfax county. As it is a majority-minority district, there is a lot of sentiment to change it to plain old Stuart high school (named after Bonnie Price Charlie I guess). School board told the protestors it’d cost $3 million to do it. That’s some bull right there. They have $3 million worth of old stationery on hand?
joel hanes
@jl:
Breaks the 27 percent bottom line crazy barrier.
Cheney’s approval was at 19% when he left office.
Trump is just the man to break that record.
Patricia Kayden
@Booger: Please!!
@Redshift: Statues of slave holders can be “educational” on private property. My tax dollars (as a descendant of slaves) shouldn’t go toward maintaining monuments to those who fought for the enslavement of my ancestors. I’m speaking figuratively since I wasn’t born in this country but the principle is the same for all Blacks in the Diaspora.
Amaranthine RBG
@Hunter Gathers:
Yes, white people are the WORST!
debbie
@Redshift:
Interesting to contrast JEBSV with R.E. Lee’s descendent, a pastor, who wants the statues taken down.
joel hanes
historical significance
I’ll be happy to aquiesce in leaving the statues up,
as long as every single one has a bronze plaque that says,
in letters each as big as my hand
TRAITOR FOUGHT AGAINST THE US TO DEFEND SLAVERY
Patricia Kayden
@The Dangerman: No, please let Michelle relax. There is zero reason why she would want to put herself through the racist harassment that her husband endured for 8 years. I’m looking forward to some fresh faces in 2020 as Democratic presidential candidates. Perhaps in a few generations, this country will be ready for another generation of the Obamas and Clintons and Bidens but for now, we need some new folks to step up.
SiubhanDuinne
@JMG:
One of my good friends attended Nathan Bedford Forrest High School in, or somewhere near, Jacksonville, FL.
She is curdled with shame about it but until the PTB change the name, there’s not a lot she can do.
SiubhanDuinne
@debbie:
As, I think, does the descendant of Stonewall Jackson.
Patricia Kayden
@Major Major Major Major: Lol!! True. I surely will not be slashing any Democrats to ribbons. I’m exhausted from keeping up with all the nonsense Trump is throwing at us to even think of picking apart anyone on our side. Shame on any other Democrats who can’t figure out who the enemy is that we have to resist and defeat.
debbie
@SiubhanDuinne:
Thanks, I didn’t know that. Apparently, Pastor Lee has met with much resistance from other family members, which makes his stance that much braver.
jl
@Redshift: It’s that they want their self-serving version of history and heritage, not the truth.
Offer them a deal, make a historic park out of some of the monuments. For statutes that were put up to celebrate Jim Crow, put big explainer signs, as big as the statue, explaining when and why the statue was put up. If there are still old plaques around (as there are for the statues recently removed in New Orleans) explaining that the statues were celebrations of the restoration of 100 percent white political rule, display those and use them to explain what the monuments were really for. Put up a monument to emancipation of slaves and memorial of victims of Jim Crow and Lynch Law next to the confederate statue. See what their reaction is.
Or, if you want to really dig under their skin, ask why there are no statues, no not one damn one anywhere in the South, to confederate generals who worked with the federal government during reconstruction to help African-Americans freedman get their rights participate in society as citizens. James Longstreet is one. Ask why no monuments to them. Offer to put up a go fund me page for a Longstreet monument in his town, see how eager he is. (he won’t be, Longstreet is considered a race traitor, though none will say it out loud).
They are just peddling BS. They want their own fake heritage and history, not the truth.
Cacti
@Amaranthine RBG:
You don’t say?
chris
@debbie: The following tweet takes you here which will lead you to an NBC poll.
Numbers may be iffy, I posted it for the LOLbitterly.
HumboldtBlue
Obama is a beautiful man and a decent one too.
Here’s a palate cleanser from a beautiful woman. Decent singer and guitar player too.
Amaranthine RBG
@Shalimar:
Oh hell no!
It’s time for other Democrats to step up and challenge Trump and speak truth to stupidity.
We can’t count on the great sky daddy from Hawaii to save us.
If you have statements from BHO, HRC and, say, Sherrod Brown or Kamala Harris – who is going to the the 10 seconds of airtime?
debbie
@chris:
Thanks. I didn’t want to get my hopes up unnecessarily.
Apparently, a number of CEOs are issuing statements criticizing this decision. Just like they criticized Trump’s Charlottesville statements. And probably like they’ll criticize Trump’s eventual decision on healthcare.
Ryan
This is how Presidenting is done.
Patricia Kayden
@HumboldtBlue: Bonnie Raitt is one of my favorites. “I Can’t Make You Love Me” is such a wistful, heartbreaking song.
MomSense
@HumboldtBlue:
Love Bonnie Raitt.
MomSense
If anyone tried to send a fax, be patient. The service is really busy (yay!) so it is taking a little longer.
randy khan
@Shalimar:
First, I think the conclusion that a former two-term President can’t run for VP is not entirely certain. But more important for this fantasy scenario, the reason that people argue that a former two-term President can’t run for VP is that the VP is required to be qualified to run for President. (It says so right there in the Constitution.) The Speaker is not required to be qualified to run for President (or even to be President). This matters because one of the quirks of the 22nd Amendment is that it affect only the ability of someone to *run* for President, not the ability of someone to *be* President. In fact, under the 22nd Amendment, Obama also could be appointed to be VP if there were a vacancy in the office, and succeed to the Presidency if the then-President died in office or resigned.
debbie
@Patricia Kayden:
Yes, and her guitar is still one of the best around.
rikyrah
uh huh
They Know They Can’t Win; They Just Want Black and Brown People to Lose Too
Damon YoungToday 2:41pm
Elizabelle
OT, but did you guys catch Garrison Keillor’s column this week? You will like it. Calls Texas (Ted Cruz, that is) and conservatives out for hypocrisy, for the “rugged individual” trope (government is the problem, etc.)
WaPost: When a red state gets the blues
WTG, Garrison. An antidote to Habermanitis and Deadly Thrush.
chris
@debbie: The US dollar index dropped a quarter point (that’s a big move) while Sessions was speaking. Don’t want to read too much into it but…
TenguPhule
@randy khan:
Minor quibble. Senate has to convict. Our chances of flipping that in 2018 are less then optimal.
TenguPhule
@smintheus:
Destined for the dung heap at the end of this month if the Republicans fuck up the debt ceiling vote.
bemused
I’m hearing Morrisette singing Isn’t it Ironic in my head. The more Trump tries to obliterate Obama’s policies and popularity, the more people love and miss Obama and Michelle.
PaulWartenberg
I don’t care if the movie “Get Out” mocked the idea of white guys pining to vote a third term for Obama. WE NEED HIM BACK, DAMMIT.
Jeffro
@Elizabelle:
My kids are wondering why I’m laughing here…love it!
trollhattan
@Redshift:
Suppose the pivoting (there’s that word) of their defense could indicate they’re off-balance and perhaps even crumbling. You wouldn’t see that happen in Alabama.
As a counteroffer, each Confederate traitor statue must be surrounded by statues of Frederick Douglass (texting on an iphone), Malcolm X, Muhammad Ali, Aretha Franklin and H. Rap Brown.
Cacti
Since today has otherwise been a total pisser, here’s a happy factoid:
Today’s the 60th birthday of On The Road.
People will still be reading it when Trump is gone.
VOR
@Patricia Kayden: I was in Budapest many years ago. They took all the statues of Stalin, Lenin, and Heroic Soviet Liberators, and dumped all of the statues and monuments into a field on the outskirts of town. Want to see them? Then take a very long bus ride to get there. But those statues are not in the main public squares anymore.
jl
@Elizabelle: Saw a news item that Abbott is refusing to call TX state leg special session to tap state emergency funds. So, if that still holds, the state government isn’t allocating anything special for the emergency until 2019. Maybe the TX GOP figures that will keep the state government’s hands clean on creating dependency. They can blame it all on the Uncle Sugar, who will be sending the money in the meanwhile.
LurkerNoLonger
@HumboldtBlue: Great song. Written by John Prine, another great singer/songwriter.
trollhattan
@Patricia Kayden: @debbie:
With you on Bonnie, terrific live if you ever get the chance. That she’s from a showbusiness family comes through in her professionalism and passion. For the sheer joy of it, Bonnie and John Lee Hooker.
TenguPhule
@jl:
Yep, 10 Billion dollar RAINY DAY FUND.
Which that grifting fuckhead won’t tap after 5 days of actual fucking rain.
I forsee problems getting federal money to Texas when Senators start bitching about it.
The NE Republicans especially are going to love a chance to play “skin in the game, bitches”.
TenguPhule
Sarah Huckabee Sanders’s provocative veiled threat to Congress
This…is not normal.
Patricia Kayden
@VOR: Which is what should have happened to all Confederate statues by at least the late 1960s. I’m amazed that taking them down from public property is an issue in 2017 for dang sake. But here we are.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@rikyrah: This is not a new insight. Blll Moyers wrote of something LBJ told him:
Elizabelle
@TenguPhule: The Possum Queen.
Out playing in traffic.
ETA: Is PQ advocating for electing more Democrats, who DO get things done? If so, I heartily endorse that.
jl
@TenguPhule: uh.. maybe I am showing my ignorance here, but I don’t think anyone else is available to get the job done over the next 6 months? Am I missing something?
Edit: I wonder if Sanders knows someone who could help out?
Patricia Kayden
@TenguPhule: How is that a threat? If Congress does nothing, which is likely given the infamous Republican inability to govern, then what happens next? Trump proposes legislation? Trump signs another DACA-related Executive Order? What? I swear that Trump and his sycophants are trying to drive us over the bend.
TenguPhule
@jl:
I may be wrong, but it sounded to me like a call to abolish the Senate and let the regional governors maintain order through fear of this battle station.
HumboldtBlue
@Patricia Kayden: @MomSense: @debbie: Bonnie and Nora Jones do a smooth Tennessee Waltz too
@LurkerNoLonger: And it was written about a woman who had been through hell looking for the reason to keep on.
TenguPhule
@Patricia Kayden:
Sounded like a call for Diktat. From an actual dick.
? Martin
Well, today sucked. There’s really nothing you can say to assure these individuals. California will look out for the Dreamers as best as we can, but when the federal government invites you to a program and then promises to use your own volunteered information to deport you, well, the credibility of every public servant pretty much goes to shit.
The calls started at 8:15.
Ksmiami
We cannot live on as a nation with the current incarnation of the GOP. And the Democratic leadership needs to recognize this reality before it’s too late. There’s a time to go high, but there’s a time to fight back and a dignity in doing so.
Amaranthine RBG
@Cacti:
Pie is the cornerstone of any nutritious breakfast.
I agree completely.
MCA1
@joel hanes: Yes. I can’t stand how all these apologists miss/obfuscate the most basic starting point: when you put up a statue of someone, the overwhelming implication is that you’re holding them up as a hero. It’s a huge, permanent, unequivocal thumbs up, not the “starting point for a discussion.” Discussion with whom? The existence of the statue itself speaks for society generally, saying “We’ve decided this person is so great we’re going to honor them.”
So, yeah, I’d be good with your suggestion, because it goes some distance toward overriding the presumption. But I’d be even more OK without explanatory plaques so long as a statue of either Grant or Sherman is erected a few feet away from every Confederate general statue, leering over them on a pedestal 24-36 inches higher, with statues commemorating freed slaves fighting with the Union standing beside them. The crackers who put up their Forrest statue didn’t need words to convey how they felt about him, and we don’t need words to denote “Took up arms in defense of chattel slavery. Betrayed his country. Got his ass kicked.”
Mnemosyne
@TenguPhule:
That’s not a threat. It’s another way to duck responsibility for the mess Trump just created. Hey, this wouldn’t even be a problem if Congress had just done their jobs! Did you ever think of that, huh? Don’t blame us, it’s Congress’s fault.
TenguPhule
@? Martin:
Ouch.
Mnemosyne
@? Martin:
Canada is apparently offering asylum for Dreamers.
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
I dunno, her body language and delivery made it sound more like a threat then an excuse.
Amaranthine RBG
@Patricia Kayden:
I think the WaPo had an infographic a couple of weeks ago showing that many of them were not even erected until the mid 1960s. Presumably in reaction to all that civil rights agitation going on.
Maybe it was in the Atlantic.
trollhattan
@? Martin:
It’s already underway, the AG’s official statement.
.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: sounds like John Roberts.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: a threat to…..
…….
WaterGirl
@randy khan: So say we all.
Amaranthine RBG
@LurkerNoLonger:
Heh, I don’t think even John Prine would say he’s a great singer.
He tells the story about when he went in for treatment of his throat cancer that the Doc was fan and told him that he made a custom shield to protect Prince’s vocal cords from the radiation. Prine says he responded “Thanks, Doc, but have you heard me sing?”
WaterGirl
@MomSense: You forgot about the little piggies that stayed home!
Patricia Kayden
@HumboldtBlue: @trollhattan: Two great Bonnie Raitt collaborations. She sure has a gorgeous voice. I’m not sure if she’s considered to be a Country Singer but I grew up listening to her on pop radio. Have always thought that she was one of the great voices.
Patricia Kayden
@Amaranthine RBG: True. I’ve read that most of them were put up well after the Civil War – pretty much f.u. to Black rights demanding civil rights.
Van Buren
@Redshift: My son, who lives in deep red SW Va., says he wants to start a GoFundMe to raise money to put up statues of Grant and Sherman throughout the South. Because that part of the heritage seems to be ignored, for some reason.
raven
@Patricia Kayden: Hell no she’s not a country singer, she’s a blues singer.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
Senate and the House.
Perhaps a laughable one. But definitely not normal.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Patricia Kayden: My tax dollars as a descendant of slave owners shouldn’t go toward maintaining those monuments.
I’ll make exceptions depending on the specific circumstances. There’s one on the UNC campus that is a unique statue for whom the model’s name is known; I think it’s a good candidate for a museum. Accompanied by the horrific dedication speech.
But the giant tchochkes? One or two in museums as examples of Lost Causer kitsch. Recycle the rest.
raven
@Amaranthine RBG: People bring flyswatters to Prine’s shows and wave them at the appropriate time in Angel.
WaterGirl
@Mnemosyne: I hope that’s true because reading that made me cry.
debbie
@Elizabelle:
Good to see retirement hasn’t made him soft.
Elizabelle
Andy Borowitz:
debbie
@jl:
They ought to be using state funds before federal funds. Moochers.
cain
@vhh:
If Dems were evil, they could goad Trump to attack the Texas GOP about the wall. That should work out really well. Maybe then some of those Texas Trump supporters will wake their ass up especially when they start get pilloried by their fellow conservatives because of eminent domain. Starting a fight within the ranks is something that needs to be done as part of Democratic #resist movement.
debbie
@TenguPhule:
Kasich moans and moans about the opioid crisis, but refuses to touch the rainy day fund. What is it with these GOOPER Govs? Do they think they can take it with them?
Amaranthine RBG
@raven:
I need to go to hipper venues, I guess, since I’ve seen him 4x and not seen that.
I went over and looked at his site and they sell flyswatters – heh.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@debbie: He’s resigned as the pastor at his church.
Elizabelle
@cain: That’s a great idea. Am sure the Dems have discussed it, over beers or bourbon and branch.
TenguPhule
@debbie:
Its been suggested they’re saving it for more tax cuts.
different-church-lady
@Van Buren: That is soooooo effin brilliant I can’t believe nobody has thought of it before!
cain
@debbie:
Microsoft’s statement was pretty awesome. Basically saying “You’ll have to go through us if you’re going to try take any of our employees”
The tech industry has turned into one big resist movement since of all sectors they are the ones that have become the most progressive. That’s because a progressive society is what is required for them to be successful. The employees also reflect great diversity.
Amaranthine RBG
@Patricia Kayden:
And did you see this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/why-those-confederate-soldier-statues-look-a-lot-like-their-union-counterparts/2017/08/18/cefcc1bc-8394-11e7-ab27-1a21a8e006ab_story.html?utm_term=.872149aae3d3
The statues are a triumph of marketing, if nothing else.
debbie
@TenguPhule:
Funny. Kasich beat his Dem opponent bloody because he had drained the fund to help unemployed Ohioans during the financial crisis. What a prick he is.
debbie
@cain:
Hope that’s the first of many.
Mnemosyne
@Patricia Kayden:
And the ones that were put up earlier than the 1960s were put up as Jim Crow laws were being passed, so an “eff you” to Black citizens in that case, too.
Patricia Kayden
@Amaranthine RBG: Yes, I had read that. Lol. What a scam!
jl
@debbie:
My degenerate culture of dependency blue state has a process for tapping state funds for disaster relief for local governments that need help. They fill out an application and start getting funds after a review. Look up ‘California Disaster Assistance Act’. I hope TX is at least doing that much.
I can’t find a history of allocations. I’m sure it’s far smaller than total federal disaster relief to CA. Along with LA and TX, and some others, CA uses a lot, more than most. But not in top ten most years. Anyway, if the feds shell out to CA, CA has already thrown in some dough.
And Jerry is a real tightwad.
Ksmiami
Not to put too fine a point on it but to be a Republican today is to be a very bad person. Trump is them, they are Trump and the remaining decent people must stop them at every possible turn.
Patricia Kayden
@raven: Oh, okay. Never thought of her that way but that makes sense.
Mnemosyne
@WaterGirl:
I don’t think it’s official, but Canadian legislators seem to be saying they’d be fools not to do it.
Major Major Major Major
@cain:
Don’t tell that to the poor, discriminated-against libertarian bros in their midst!
p.a.
bin Laden understood us. He knew there was a
reservoircesspool of racists here to manipulate. He just thought racism fueled foreign wars would be the main mechanism to cripple us. Don’t think he expected internal rot first, led by a major political party. Putin is on board with it of course.dmsilev
@Major Major Major Major: If we’re really lucky, maybe they’ll all go Galt on us.
tobie
@Mnemosyne: @WaterGirl: Such a gain for Canada, such a loss for us. It’s painful seeing this country destroy itself for no reason but racial spite.
efgoldman
@Elizabelle:
I thought that was Kelly Anne, around the same time as she uncovered the Bowling Green Massacree.
Major Major Major Major
@dmsilev: But then who will program the minor parts of various technological miscellany that those guys work on? The other 15,000 programmers who applied to the same jobs? Yeah, right.
cain
Speaking of disasters, thanks to a 15 year old kid shooting illegal fireworks, our beautiful Columbia River Gorge is on fire. Portland is covered in ash and about 5000 people need to be evacuated. He and his friends laughed and giggled as their little fireworks went down into wilderness and eventually catching fire. Now that area is no longer a place we can hike, hell most of the gorge is probably going to be un-hikeable for some time to come. The fire is still 0% contained and they think it will take all month to get it contained. Thanks, kid.
weaselone
@MCA1:
I think we should use statues of Philip Sheridan in the Shenandoah Valley, Texas and Louisiana in lieu of Grant and Sherman.
frosty
@efgoldman: @debbie: I saw that awhile back but they were picking Hillz instead of Obama.
efgoldman
@cain:
Have they identified the asshole kids? Picked them up and put them in juvie? Prosecuted the parents?
Actions have to have consequences. And i don’t want to hear any “they’re really good kids who just made a mistake” bullshit.
Fuckem
WaterGirl
@tobie: Trump as president is basically the United States playing Russian roulette. It must be devastating for our allied countries to watch this county’s descent into madness. For those of us who believe in democracy and equality, it’s agonizing.
I suspect that by tomorrow I will be mad as hell about DACA, but for today all I feel is tremendous sorrow.
Kelly
@efgoldman: They were interviewed by police at the trailhead. Oregon State Police and US Attorney are investigating. Authorities want to interview witnesses. Press reports of a confession in the initial interview. Not an attorney but wondering if it’s admissible.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
Yeah, he’s gotten that way in his old age. Remember when he wanted to start California’s own space program back in the 70’s and was called Governor Moonbeam?
jl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Jerry said he was ready to give it another go if Trump doesn’t get his ass under control on climate change research. So, there is still a chance.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@cain: I guess my step-daughter may want to re-thing touring that area while she’s up there.
TS
@Mnemosyne:
trump is about to close the northern border – not to keep people out – to keep people in – so he can deport them out.
Mnemosyne
@dmsilev:
If they did go Galt, who would even notice?
Mnemosyne
@cain:
Ugh. At least our nasty So Cal fire seems to be due to natural causes.
We had one like that in Griffith Park a few years ago, though. Little shits playing with firecrackers.
Kelly
Firefighting in the Columbia Gorge is exceptionally difficult. Steep terrain and tight side canyons are traps in a wild fire. The Gorge is famous for strong wind. A spark jumped the Columbia river into Washington last night. The fire jumped the biggest river on the US west coast.
Matt McIrvin
@Major Major Major Major: “We just have to tell ourselves… I’m not… going… to kill! Today!” –James T. Kirk
Amaranthine RBG
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Yeah, and now he wants to pour billions into high speed trains between Fresno and Modesto and, as a pay off to the farmers who are going to lose their land to right of ways, he’s pushing through the Delta tunnels project which is going to be the final nail in the delta ecosystem.
I get that he’s measuring himself against his father and wants to have some signature history changing public works project, but these are just really, really lousy choices.
Gvg
@SiubhanDuinne: the name was changed to Westside high about 2 years ago.
lamh36
I see Obama call out got in his head!
@JamilSmith 2m
TenguPhule
And so it begins. Will Republicans fuck us all over the debt ceiling, stay tuned!
But of course…..
And none of the brilliant minds bothered to talk to the Democrats for imput.
Juggling flaming chainsaws in a room full of banana peels.
jl
@lamh36:
” Congress now has 6 months to legalize DACA (something the Obama Administration was unable to do). If they can’t, I will revisit this issue! ”
OK, save that sucker for sixth months from now, when likely Congress will fall on its ass and do nothing. We’ll be lucky if we are paying any bills.
Maybe Trump will show the black guy who’s who by re-issuing the exact same order, with a few words changed and Trump’s name at the top. And most importantly, sign it with a bigger… um… really really bigger pen, than Obama used?
If so, that is some ‘so much winning’ that I could actually thank Trump for.
Edit: Come to think of it, if Congress totally messes up budget and debt limit, maybe we won’t have any money to pay ICE to deport people anyway.
Davebo
@cain: Got a link. What is see is that the cause is still under investigation.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Amaranthine RBG: Oh a train hater…go blow a goat.
lamh36
the muthaphucka backtracking already…one damn day of bad press…
dumb fuq…Jeff Sessions and GOP State AG forced his damn hand and his dum azz went along with it.
He thought having KKKeebler Elf make the annoucement he wouldn’t get dragged for it…but nope he’s being dragged ALL DAY!
Add to it Obama blitzing his azz today…
JPL
@lamh36: I have no idea what he means, but maybe he’ll tweet in another ten minutes and explain. He must be watching tv.
TenguPhule
@jl:
Obviously their solution is to strip the gold fillings from their teeth and make the deported pay for it.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
This presents a problem, how will that really really bigger pen fit in those tiny fingers?
Davebo
@cain: Never mind, I found it.
Kelly
This video of some Irish folk catching a bat in their kitchen improved my day
https://twitter.com/jonnohopkins/status/905119363061211142
jl
@lamh36: Happens when you have to no plan,don’t understand what is going on, and can’t plan, and have blown what political capital you had on BS.
If Canada is smart enough to accept a hundred thousand or so, Trump will notice that another country is getting something from us, for nothing, and laughing all the way to the bank. So, maybe that will make Trump reconsider.
Or, being Trump, he’ll try to declare war on Canada. Who knows?
TenguPhule
Somebody please tell me this is some kind of fucking joke.
WHAT THE HELL?!
chris
John Prine brings it: Some Humans Ain’t Human
From the same mix that started out with Bonnie Raitt, thanks to whoever started it.
debbie
Could clowns be the answer?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@debbie:
No. Never.
Amaranthine RBG
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I don’t hate trains.
I do hate the idea of spending 70 or 80 billion dollars on a vanity project that will get you from SF to LA (at best) in 3 hours of travel time when you can fly there in an hour. Oh, yeah it will allow everybody to zip between Gilroy and Merced or Tulare and Bakersfield and when people arrive they can just walk around those marvelously pedestrian-friendly locales, right? Dumbass.
And, like I said, the worst part of this boondoggle is that Brown is using the delta tunnels to pay off central valley ag interests to get their backing.
I guess you are one of those people who think that the Delta ecosystem is just too coddled, right? Seriously, fuck you.
TenguPhule
@debbie:
Only if the question is “What’s horrible and sad and not funny?”
mai naem mobile
@TenguPhule: Heidtkamps in a tough spot. If this helps her keep her seat let her. We have to worry about Menendez right now on top of the ’18 tough races. You got McCaskill,Tester anf Manchin to deal with. I think Donnelly as well. We can’t be picky about what kind of Dem you can get as long as theu vote for Shiner for leader. Think big tent. Yuuuge tent.
TenguPhule
@mai naem mobile:
Giving Trump a break on gutting taxes is asking for trouble. Saving the seat only to lose the whole country isn’t exactly a winning trade off. We can’t give those stupid media shits the chance to say “look, both sides!” on this. The national finances are already bad enough without making them worse.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Amaranthine RBG: Thank God we didn’t have small, unimaginative minds like yours running this state back in the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s.
Back at ya.
chris
@debbie: Love it! Wife Power! Shared.
Don’t hate. Gyrate! LOL
Amaranthine RBG
@chris:
Did you hear Prine talking about about Steve Goodman and his big break? There’s a version on the Maron podcast.
Kris Kristofferson heard Steve Goodman and and approached him and said “Man, you’re great, we should get you signed to a label” Goodman replied, “No, you know who is great? John Prine, we should go see him” They pile in a taxi and get to Prine show that just ended.
Prine unpacks his guitar and sits in an empty club and replays his set for Kristofferson and Prine got signed right after that.
At least that’s the way Prine tells it, sort of.
Here’s one of my favorites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5axlwCBXC8
The las time I saw him he was touring with Jason Isbel and Amanda Shires and Isbel really hammed it up in the background reacting to some of the lines between Prine and (Isbel’s wife) Shires.
zhena gogolia
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Have you seen the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnCdOQsX5kc? Terrifying!
That was supposed to say “It” trailer.
Amaranthine RBG
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
You think 80 billion in high speed rail connecting pedestrian hating cities is a good idea? Really?
And do you deny that the Delta Tunnels will destroy the Delta?
Do you grow almonds or work as an engineer for Caltrans? Because those are the only groups in favor of this idiocy.
japa21
@TenguPhule: Although it says nothing about agreeing with Trump’s tax proposals. In fact, it intimates that she is quite likely to be playing Trump for a chump. Using him to help her get reelected while not voting for his proposals. If that is what is going through her mind, I applaud her.
TenguPhule
@japa21:
Standing by him silently while he lies and bullshits gives him cover. I wish things didn’t work that way.
But our fucking media……
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Amaranthine RBG:
Yes, our current airports won’t be able to handle anticipated traffic and they can’t easily be expanded. I don’t know about up north, but LA is becoming much more pedestrian friendly(“Nobody Walks in LA” just ain’t true no more). I think rail is a better alternative for under 500 mile travel, other countries seem to think so as well.
Don’t know. Do you have another way to get water to the northern pumping station for the CA Water Project? Because, if you don’t; we might as well just dynamite the whole damn thing. The is the updated version of the Peripheral Canal that was pushed the governor* in the late 70’s, we should have built it then. It should have been part of the original CA Water Project.
*Believe his name was Brown.
PIGL
@WaterGirl: I think for those of us who believe in democracy, it’s time to reconsider its necessary conditions.
Universal suffrage
Unrestricted political speech
Unlimited private wealth.
At least one of these has to go.
It’s time also to ask ourselves how many battalions it would take to arrest the Koch’s and Mercer and the rest.
catclub
@lamh36: My suggestion for improving the world is getting news people in New Orleans to switch from saying Jeff Davis to Traitor Davis.
I think the most likely ones to do it first would not be white folks. Just a thought.
Start with traffic reports and build from there.
Amaranthine RBG
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Re the Tunnels: This is the old there is too much traffic so we just need to add lanes to the freeway fallacy. The solution to CA’s water crisis to to stop subsidizing the millions of gallons that go to agriculture. You say you don’ know whether the tunnels will destroy the Delta. If you give a shit about the environment – you might want to look into that because they most assuredly will.
And CA ain’t Europe. Completely different development patterns. European cities developed around rail, not an interstate highway system. It’s silly to just try to graft high speed rail onto the skeleton that was developed by cars. Serious question: have you ever been to Stockton, Manteca, Gilroy, Bakersfield, Fresno or Merced?
MCA1
@weaselone: Works for me. I’m also in favor of seeing Gen. Thomas wherever folks see fit. Not only was he a native Virginian who chose not to commit treason, but he saw right through the Lost Cause bullshit the moment it started while he worked to help fight the proto-klan and protect freed former slaves:
“The greatest efforts made by the defeated insurgents since the close of the war have been to promulgate the idea that the cause of liberty, justice, humanity, equality, and all the calendar of the virtues of freedom, suffered violence and wrong when the effort for southern independence failed. This is, of course, intended as a species of political cant, whereby the crime of treason might be covered with a counterfeit varnish of patriotism, so that the precipitators of the rebellion might go down in history hand in hand with the defenders of the government, thus wiping out with their own hands their own stains; a species of self-forgiveness amazing in its effrontery, when it is considered that life and property—justly forfeited by the laws of the country, of war, and of nations, through the magnanimity of the government and people—was not exacted from them.”
I mean, that fucking nails it, damn near a hundred fifty years before that cancer metastisized to bring us the 2016 election.
satby
@HumboldtBlue: dead thread, but you gave me a chance to reminisce a bit about hanging out seeing Prine and the other Old Town folkies back in the early 70s at Earl’s. I wandered to the clip from last year of Prine singing with Stephen Colbert on the Late Show last year, and I nearly cried at seeing how aged Prine looks. Great songwriter, and those were heady days.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Amaranthine RBG: Obviously, you don’t know much about water policy in this state. A good proportion of farming water comes from the federal Central Valley Project and it’s heavily subsidized. Do you have another solution to keep salt water out of the northern pumping station? This was seen as a problem that needed to be solved back the late 70’s and we kicked the can down the road, we have to solve it now.
So we should just forget about rail since we have cars and freeways? Damn that’s stupid. And yes, I’ve been to all those cities. I’ve lived in this state for almost 60 years and we used to travel up to see family in WA and an almost annual basis prior to I-5 opening though the Central Valley.
ETA: Again, why do you hate trains?
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: Christ, I hope not.
Omnes Omnibus
@?BillinGlendaleCA: He’s a misogynist, gun nut troll at heart. Hating things like trains is par for the course. I mean, he is an asshole.
randy khan
@TenguPhule:
It *is* a fantasy. I freely admit it.
randy khan
@trollhattan:
I saw her with James Taylor this summer. She has serious guitar chops.
KarenFC
@SiubhanDuinne:
it’s in Jacksonville, and they recently changed the name, finally. It had to be done without a vote because there was never a majority in favor of changing the name. My grandson goes to Robert E Lee high school in Jacksonville. Both Forrest and Lee are majority African American student population, both were named in the 50’s.
randy khan
@Amaranthine RBG:
I have no opinion on the tunnels, but I find that there are a lot of people who say they have nothing against trains who nevertheless never actually are for them.
And it’s not wrong to build train stations in towns that aren’t walkable, as there are many reasons to bring mass transit to a community.
J R in WV
@trollhattan:
Dear Dog! She wouldn’t be expected to bite her tongue when people make scurrilous remarks about her and her family. She should cast the darkest, total eclipse shade upon them, put them in the place they aspire to, that of hateful bigots lying out of desperation. Then have them fired and their pension and health care revoked, and send them to hm, Nicaragua? Oh, OH, I know, the farthest southernmost parts of Chile, where they can watch the Straits of Magellan for a rescue ship manned by Trump’s kids.
Bruce K
A strange thought keeps surfacing in my head when I see the contrast between Obama and his successor.
That thought is that Obama ran for President eight years too soon.
sukabi
@debbie: yes, in the form of tax cuts for their wealthy friends and themselves.
sukabi
@cain: the air is thick with smoke and ash all the way up the I-5 corridor. Air so thick the sun was just a glowing deep orange orb. Ugh.
Applejinx
This is all good but justice is not conditional on being the best and the brightest (neither is basic survival, with or without ‘a good job’).
These things are for all citizens.
I realise that framing it in this way, that the people being attacked are far from being ‘thugs’, is a practical way to make the argument. I get that the Dreamers are often exceptional. But you don’t HAVE to be ‘exceptional’ to deserve justice. And even though we’re dealing with outright evil people, I don’t like bargaining with them by saying ‘okay, will you have mercy on the people you think should just die, if they try REALLY HARD to impress you with how virtuous they are?’
Still impressed with how well Obama understands his situation and what can practically be done. Still table-flippingly upset with how little that is and how thrilled people are with it. Talk to me when his rhetoric has even managed to spare the BEST and most exceptional dreamer from being rounded up by ICE thugs and thrown out of the country. It seems like he’s got nothing to lose and doesn’t need to go ‘look how best and brightest they are’.
Far fucking cry from ‘I lift my lamp beside the golden door’.