I have made a useful time-line for you. You may apply it to any tragedy. pic.twitter.com/UEn788h6U8
— Alex Andreou (@sturdyAlex) August 29, 2017
Can we talk about the CLIMATE CRISIS NOW? It’s fine for everyone to “come together” and donate and help and be all heroic, but wouldn’t it be better if we didn’t have to in the first place?
Here’s my go to resource: Climate Reality Project
This summer, I selfishly applied for and received a grant to add more insulation to my home, condition my crawl space and install a HE furnace. It cost me about 1/3 of what it would have to do it on my own. But it was still a budget hit. I am, however, looking forward to lower heating costs and warmer floors this winter. It has already greatly increased the comfort on the few 100 degree days we had this summer. Oh, sure, it will also lower my carbon footprint…but you know, comfort and $$ weighed heavily in this decision.
The reason I could do this is because my state and more importantly my county takes resource efficiency seriously, so there are funds available and strict guidelines for new builds and retrofits. Solar, wind and geothermal are all encouraged with regulations and incentives. One of my clients paid LESS for his electric car than he would have for a new gasoline vehicle, because of state and county rebates.
So that’s where I think we can fight successfully while we endure the current administration. Locally – at the city level, the county level, the state level. Or maybe just convince one person today it’s not hopeless, we can solve this, but the time is today.
There are good, smart people working on this, but they need our support, they need us to fight for them while the current administration and big oil does everything it can to hamstring them…
/rant
I am sure there many of you who can add resources to help us get involved and I’m sure there are many of you who are already doing what you can…so hit the comments and share your expertise with us.
Resources for continued hope on climate change: Al Gore, Texas Statesman Opinion article, WWF. And for a primer on what we need to do Carbon Nation. I’m looking forward to the new Inconvenient Sequel film.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
Bret Stephens: “No. Forever and never. The end.”
Timurid
If there had been a good guy with a hurricane, none of this would have happened.
Baud
We should also talk about this.
http://www.wbur.org/news/2017/08/23/environmental-voters
Roger Moore
@Timurid:
Where would you like your internets delivered?
debbie
It’s useless. People are too stupid. I listened to an NPR call-in show today. They always let lots of Trumpies talk. One Trumpie said people just needed to stop living along the coast. The host gently (so gently the Trumpie didn’t pick up on it) pointed out that ports bringing goods in and out were all on the coasts; how could we do without them? Another Trumpie who lived somewhere in the Midwest was tired of having to pay for other peoples’ difficulties and said people should get disaster assistance only once and then be on their own if it happened again. The host was too polite to bring up the subject, but I’d have liked him to ask that person how she would feel if no one helped her after a tornado. I’m sure she considers herself to be the exception to her rule.
Cheryl Rofer
TaMara – Thanks for this post. With Hurricane Harvey setting records by enormous margins, I’ve been thinking that we’ve got to get more active on global warming. There is SO MUCH to do. It’s great that your state is moving. Governor Jerry Brown of California has said that California will ignore the denialist-in-chief and move forward on decreasing carbon emissions.
We can support that on the state level. I want to think of a way to turn the idiots in Washington around, but that’s harder. The United States is the ONLY country that has institutionalized climate denial.
Yutsano
Ugh. Do you have to make a tragedy political? Can you at least wait until the clean-u is done?
(Not my attitude. Just how I see the ear plugging get done.)
@Cheryl Rofer:
Where California goes, the rest of the Pacific states go with as well. There is a lot of strength and bond in the western half of the country that if we were to go it most likely would be together.
Arclite
Is there a site that shows what Harvey would have become if it had come in 1987 instead of 2017? The Gulf is so warm these days and all that extra heat gets sucked into the storm, making it bigger and stronger than it would have been in the past.
MomSense
@debbie:
On the latest Pod Save America, Jon Lovett was talking about we as a people/society are really good at acute compassion. The problem is that we lack the imagination or the longer term compassion to deal with issues like climate change when it isn’t an immediate crisis.
Schlemazel
@Baud:
And then they wonder why they are getting their asses handed to them by an anti-environmental Congress. How can we motivate them to vote if the current situation is not enough?
Cheryl Rofer
Some interesting answers to questions about Harvey.
Catherine D.
I’m getting a quote for buying a share in a local solar array. Don’t know if I can afford it, but I don’t trust the ESCOs telling me their energy is green.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@MomSense:
Isn’t that every human society ever?
Mai.naem.mobile
Good luck. I listen to a small time RW radio show(Gary Kaltbaum.) Everytime climate change comes up he starts talking about Leo Caprio travelling around in a private place and Al Gore living in a mansion and also travelling in a private plane. This moron is in Florida BTW. On Squawk Box on CNBC Joe Kernen is. climate change denier and is completely hung up on x amt of change in CO2 is not enough to make a difference. You don’t get.beyond that with that moron. He just thinks it’s all group think and even compares it to Copernicus. Kernen is an MIT STEM grad. Like I said good luck.
Baud
@Schlemazel: If I knew how to motivate people, I’d be president now.
But the fact is, while it’s important to fight the denialists, we should also put some work into get our own house in order.
TaMara (HFG)
@debbie: I feel ya. Suggestion: Start with Carbon Nation and then work your way through the list I provided at the bottom of the post until you feel more positive. There is hope out there, just got to point yourself in that direction.
lgerard
@MomSense:
This mirrors the healthcare system. The best in the world in acute and end of life care, inadequate in all other aspects.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Mai.naem.mobile:
Someone should ask Kernan what his credentials are and how they qualify him to make an assessment on the science of climate change.
debbie
@MomSense:
The problem is that by the time the deniers are convinced, it will be too late to do a fucking thing.
@lgerard:
Especially in healthcare, no one in power is willing to take a longterm look and see that if we were better at prevention, we wouldn’t need as much acute care.
TaMara (HFG)
@Mai.naem.mobile: I see your problem right there…
Mai.naem.mobile
One more thing – when Katrina happened Dubbyas campaign manager came in and gave contracts to companies he ended up working with. Big $$$ contracts. As long as the GOP is giving government contracts to GOP friendly companies and making $$$ off disasters they will be less likely to permanently fix stuff.
TaMara (HFG)
@Mai.naem.mobile: It’s like you didn’t even read the post.
smintheus
Are the policies of Hurricane Harvey really all that different from those of Donald Trump? Is it possible to distinguish between their personalities and style of rule?
I’m wondering about Harvey’s political future. Is he the next darling of the Republican
right wingparty?Mai.naem.mobile
@TaMara (HFG): hey, I force myself to listen so that I know upcoming FOX news talking points. He’s an occasional FBN contributor. I do think a lot of the RW still coordinate daily talking points.
StringOnAStick
We saw a subtle anti-trump bumper sticker last weekend: “Trump skis in blue jeans”; here in CO, skiing in blue jeans is the mark of the ultimate poser noob.
Talking to a co-worker who used to live in Houston, she would often get trapped at her office until 9:30 at night when a rain storm would flood the downtown area. That was almost 10 years ago and her friends who are still there are saying things were so much worse even before Harvey. Now those friends are trapped in their homes and wondering when they will be able to exit since the highways are designed to be the overflow channels for flood water. No easy answers here as far as rebuilding goes.
MomSense
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Yes, however I think we were progressing along a different trajectory (albeit slooooooowly) until Ronald Reagan. He was a transformational president. Unfortunately the transformation was destructive. His message was about shaming poor people, racial resentment, anti government sentiment, placing self interst above all else, and shredding our means of self governance. Our government as the enemy. We are still dealing with that pernicious ideology.
TaMara (HFG)
@Mai.naem.mobile: And that’s a choice, but this thread is about positive things you can do to get things going in the right direction. I offered plenty of links to good, positive steps to take and I asked people to share what was working.
It does no one any good to say, “hey, good luck with that” and drag everyone down. If that offends you…well this is Balloon Juice and we are a bunch of snarling jackals.
MomSense
@lgerard:
And the anti climate science lobby (oil companies) has been following the tobacco company playbook to the letter.
People don’t think about health insurance or access to care until it happens to them.
lgerard
@StringOnAStick:
What I remember about living in Houston was constant torrential rains and constant flooding. What made it even worse was the amount of clay in the soil. After every rainstorm the sidewalks would be incredibly slippery, it wasn’t uncommon to see 3 or 4 people fall in the space of a block. You couldn’t laugh because you knew it was going to happen to you too.
MomSense
@debbie:
But the problem is also structural. Medical schools are too fucking expensive!!! The means by which providers are paid has been fee for service. The only economic model that makes sense in this system emphasizes costly treatment because that is what pays. Prevention literally doesn’t pay – the providers.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
Has anyone ever heard of the Coalition for American Veterans? I got a call from them and they were asking for a donation. I pledged 15 dollars because I didn’t have the heart to say no. I gave them my address so they could send me a check to sign and fill out and mail back. They asked for a debit or credit card number but I wasn’t comfortable with that so I opted for a check instead. I looked them up and all I could find of them was that they’re a PAC. I thought they were a charity.
I’m a little worried I gave them my address I don’t want to be sent crap from them.
Chyron HR
@Baud:
Yes, but their doughnuts.
MomSense
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Your state’s office of attorney general will have information if this group is a scam- or you can call them and report the call so they can look into it.
debbie
@TaMara (HFG):
I do look forward to checking out some of the films on Carbon Nation, but it is difficult to remain positive. This morning, driving to work, i couldn’t decide which was worse: choking on all the diesel fumes or choking because someone hit a skunk.
Al Gore’s been making the rounds. Did you hear him interviewed on NPR’s Fresh Air?
lgerard
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
First Rule
Never give a dime to anyone who calls you on the phone. No reputable charity raises money that way, it is far too expensive
Origuy
@debbie:
Yeah, those people who were flooded out in 2011 by the Missouri River in Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Missouri, Nebraska, and Kansas should just move somewhere else, where those things don’t happen.
Interstadial
@Yutsano:
More like the western edge of the country. Go east of the Sierra and Cascades and it’s a whole different world for the most part, with a few local exceptions.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@MomSense:
They said they were based in Virginia. They said they had a website but I really can’t find it by googling the name. The guy said the envelope would arrive in 3 to 4 days. I hope I didn’t give them too much info. My name and address couldn’t have been enough.
trollhattan
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
That is the weirdest thing I’ve heard of in ages. They send you a check?
Were they legit they’d have an address to which you’d send a check and at the same time, give a way to verify their legitimacy. Almost assuredly a scam, or fundraising house that passes along a tiny percentage of donations.
WaterGirl
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: You will surely get crap from these people, even if they are a good group, which I find a bit unlikely.
This is what I say to anyone who calls me to solicit money by phone:
“I never, ever, ever give money in response to a phone call. Please take me off your list.”
When they say, but we only want to send your pledge, I say:
“I never, ever, ever give money in response to a phone call. Please take me off your list.”
When they come back with the next thing, I say:
“I never, ever, ever give money in response to a phone call. Please take me off your list.”
MomSense
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Call your AG’s office just in case.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@trollhattan:
I assume it’s a check or a form or something. I might of misheard. I was feeling nervous and was watching what I was saying after asking for my credit card number. Maybe it was just a letter with a return envelope for the check? It’s one I certainly won’t be writing.
Mary Beth
I grew up on Cape Hatteras, which is a not so glorified sandbar. Every storm (in those days they all went up the east coast) destroyed houses and cut off communities. The relatively protected area where we lived is now inhabited by mega-expensive homes. When, not if, the next hurricane takes out this fragile barrier island, some idiot will bravely say “I’ll rebuild”. It is nonsense to keep hitting yourself in the head with a hammer, and then get federal help for your headache. Some places need to be determined to be beyond reclaiming. Build somewhere else, build on higher ground. I’m not being cruel, I’m being realistic.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@WaterGirl:
Shit. I’ll never hear the end of it from my parents. I’m going to school and still live with them. It’s their address.
lgerard
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Sadly, it is enough to get you on a mailing list that will be sold ad infinitum to other fly by night operations
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@MomSense: I probably will tommorow, though my state AG is a gooper. I get phone calls all the time. Usualky they’re automated. I was caught off guard when it was a real live person who sounded legitimate.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@lgerard:
Well, I guess throwing away shitty junk mail is preferable to having my identity stolen.
Yutsano
@MomSense: I’m trying to imagine what life would have been like without the gutting of the federal workforce under Dubya that was a direct extension of the ideology that Reagan first brought to national prominence. We would most likely be a very different country now.
Roger Moore
@Yutsano:
I think the whole country is moving that way already, if not everywhere quite as fast as California. People were worried about Rick Perry as SOE because they thought he was only interested in oil and gas, but Texas(!) is now the national leader in wind energy. Hell, the Kentucky Coal Museum recently installed solar panels to save money. Renewable energy has a lot of momentum, and it’s only going to get cheaper.
mai naem mobile
@TaMara (HFG): the way I talk about climate change is that saving energy is good for your pocketbook. Forget whether you think it’s a hoax, a good part of the solution is more energy efficiency which in turn means less money spent on your energy bill. My sister replaced some old in okay shape single pane aluminum windows with the cheapesr decent double paned vinyl windows in a rental property. Her tenants told her their electric bill went down. That’s the way I discuss climate change.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Yutsano: Eh. The conservative backlash in the 70s, along with the collapse of the New Deal Coalition kind of made the election of someone like Raygun inevitable.
mai naem mobile
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: you could look them up on Charity Navigator and go backwards from that.
Wapiti
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Yeah, I get lots of robo-calls. I’d really, really like an easy way to report them, something like just press *27 and a complaint is entered. Bonafide charity would be able to clear it with regulators, but a scammer wouldn’t. The phone company might have to block all the scam calls from the internet to landline.
trollhattan
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
That makes sense. Before caller ID I got a constant barrage from places with semi-generic names like “California Police Officers and Doggie Memorial Fund.”
I assume it’s all just boiler room stuff.
Roger Moore
@MomSense:
Which isn’t just happenstance. The AMA is deeply involved in the whole process of accrediting new medical schools and licensing new doctors. You can’t get worse regulatory capture than that. Is it any wonder we have a long-term doctor shortage?
Wapiti
@mai naem mobile: Yeah, for many landlords that’s considered a loss. They paid for the upgrade and the renter saves the money.
I know my utility companies really push conservation, insulation, etc, with lots of subsidies here and there. It’s cheaper for the utility to encourage us to save energy now, rather than invest in another power plant.
trollhattan
@Roger Moore:
Honestly, my main hope at the moment is that China is eyeballing Houston and extrapolating that mess to their own coastal areas. They now double the States in GHG emissions and are in a position to take the greatest whacks at it. As a byproduct they’ll drive down the equipment costs bigly, making renewables unarguably the cheapest energy sources. It’s headed that way regardless, but dramatic price drops will speed the rest of the world adopting them.
WaterGirl
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: This is what they call a teachable moment. Lesson learned!
It’s a pain in the behind, but it’s not the end of the world. Look at it this way, you are a little bit smarter than you were yesterday. You have another data point for what to do and what not to do. Take a deep breath, maybe let out one big sigh, and then say “oh, well”. Then make a better choice next time.
David Evans
@mai naem mobile: individual energy saving is good. I have cut my electricity bill by replacing all my lights with LEDs. But that’s the easy bit. To prevent disastrous climate change we need to do things that the individual can’t do – redesign our electricity grid to cater for solar, wind and the associated storage, as just one example. Demands on the grid will increase as we switch to electric cars.Individual action will not be enough without the political will to make expensive choices.
Roger Moore
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
A quick look makes them seem more like a scam than either one. They raised around $7000 during the 2016 election (their first) and spent it all on operating expenses. Looks like somebody decided a SuperPAC would be a nice grift.
ETA link to FEC website.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Wapiti: @trollhattan:
I got the call on my cell. I looked at the number and it’s an Ohio number. Definitely reporting that number to the state AG
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@WaterGirl:
True. I’m hoping I won’t have to tell them
Mike Furlan
@ Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) : I’ve seen how it will end.
https://youtu.be/EvF97cf6x6c
lgerard
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Their “treasurer” is Christopher Marston of Virginia who is known to be the treasurer of hundreds of these groups and they undoubtedly have a PO Box there. All that means is he files whatever reports they choose to file. Their expenses seem to be based in New Jersey though I would not exactly believe their reports..
Mary G
@WaterGirl: Exactly.
debbie
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
That they asked for a debit card is an absolute dead giveaway. Call the AG’s office tomorrow. You could probably even file a complaint online at the AG’s website. (If you’re in Ohio, DeWine has this; I’ve filed a complaint or two over the years.)
WaterGirl
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: If you do tell them, I would recommend starting with something like “I’m an idiot… ” Not that I’m calling you an idiot, but if you start our up front clearly stating that you know you did a dumb thing, sometimes that makes it easier for the other person to be a little more gracious.
WaterGirl
@Mary G: :: waves and smiles ::
schrodingers_cat
No thread about DACA?
efgoldman
@WaterGirl:
I don’t even do that. Mostly I hang up without answering (they spoof numbers from anywhere). If I get as far as answering I press hangup as soon as I hear the “bloop” tone, or the sound of a boiler room in the background, or a recording, or any number of greetings.
What if the call is legit? Fuck them, they called me, they’re wasting my time.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@lgerard:
The best bit I forgot to mention was that they asked for donations of several hundred dollars. at first before settling on a 15 dollar donation. If they’re a PAC, is a call to the state AG worth it?
Kelly
Individual action will not solve the problem but I feel good doing it. We have a wood pellet stove to go with our heat pump. Our pellets come from a sawmill 6 miles from here. The stove is our main heat for temps under 40.
Stuck under a blanket of forest fire smoke the DEQ rates as “unhealthy” for the third day in a row. Had 4 days of bad smoke earlier in the month. Been pondering the global warming contribution to forest fires. Like hurricanes they’ve been around forever and there’s not enough data to know how it all fits. Still anything we do to slow down global warming is good overall pollution control and if it helps with our forest fires that’s a bonus.
raven
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Don’t send the one fucking dime.
“Christopher M. Marston, a Republican operative with ties to several prominent GOP officeholders, was the sole name listed on Federal Election Commission filings for The Hillary Project. A professional accountant and Republican election compliance officer, Marston also has served as treasurer for the pro-Rick Santorum 2012 super PAC and leadership PACs belonging to Rep. Rob Wittman (R-VA), Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R-IN), and Virginia Speaker of the House William Howell (R).”
Roger Moore
@David Evans:
One thing to think about, though, is that individual actions can help to create the conditions for collective action. When a few people own solar panels and electric cars, there isn’t much pressure, either on the grid or politically. When there are more owners, there’s more pressure on the grid, and the grid operator will push back to avoid expensive changes to their business. When there are lots of owners, there will a lot of pressure on the grid, but there will also be political will to make things work. All those owners are going to complain to their elected representatives and demand action. So will the companies that install solar panels and make electric cars, and utilities that want to operate solar and wind farms.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
wut
Fair Economist
@trollhattan:
They have already. An astonishing portion of China’s population is at risk from global warming – including the entire lower Yangtzee river. Shanghai, its business showplace, would be 200 feet underwater and 200 miles from the nearest land. China is already pushing hard for low-carbon energy, and they’re going to be pushing much harder soon.
The fact that it also address the bogglingly bad air pollution there is a nice bonus.
lgerard
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Kind of doubt it. although if you are on your states do not call list you might contact them and make a complaint after you get the mailing address that they send you.
If you want to be more creative, an email to Christopher Marston who is the registered treasurer of this “organization” complaining about them and asking to be taken off their contact list might be fun.
Here is his email [email protected]
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@schrodingers_cat:
Sorry we’re too busy talking about how I almost fell for a scam =) Maybe a FPer will put a post up on it?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@raven:
Fuck that guy. Dude’s just pocketing all of the donations. He won’t see a thing from me.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@lgerard:
My cell isn’t. I think I’ll get on that do not call list.
Baud
Chris Christie is on Chris Hayes.
raven
@Baud: And it’s good.
eta, well, until that “both sides” shit.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
Why?
@raven: See.
WaterGirl
@efgoldman: I get these calls from Rachel at card services. Today I got a call from a Texas number and I was expecting a call from someone I don’t know well so I answered it just in case. It was fucking Rachel from card services and they are spoofing Texas numbers because of the hurricane. And here I thought I already hated them as much as you could possibly had a group like that !
Pupjoint
Bought a new house in Katy, Tx that builders sprayed 2 inches of foam insulation prior to wallboarding. Energy costs are 1/3 of my previous apartment with 1/2 the square footage! Plus new appliances such a ACs and refridgerators are supper efficient. I bought a KW meter a few years ago at Radio Shack and did an audit. Found out that that old garage refridge was supper inefficient and replaced it, which paid for itself in 6 months. My extended family installed a solar panel system for 25k on their home and it will pay out in 5 years. The Emphase inverters for each panel (29 total) communicate with the internet so you can monitor output.
Today is the 12th anniversary of the flooding of NO during Katrina August 29th, 2005.
Houston is underwater now.
Redshift
@raven: And how careful Christie was to respond to questions about whether we need to address climate change by agreeing, but making sure there wouldn’t be tape of him saying the words “climate change.” Chickenshit.
raven
@Redshift: I thought Hayes was pretty good.
Sab
@MomSense: Goku’s state’s attorney general is a RWNJ.
MomSense
@Sab:
Even the ostaff of RWNJs are usually pretty good on this issue since scams are a real problem for seniors.
Sab
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Is it 330 area Code?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Sab: No, a 567
Redshift
@Kelly: My understanding is that the relationship between climate change and forest fires is similar to tropical storms – no individual one can be tied to it, but it makes them more frequent and more severe.
Flanders' other neighbor
On my cell, I set it to manual – do not disturb and only allow calls to go through if the number is in my contacts. Voice mail states to leave a message or I’ll block the number. There is an option for the call to go through if someone calls twice, but this has worked so well I haven’t bothered with it yet. Most times the machine doesn’t leave a message so there aren’t many to delete. Oh, and don’t fall for the IRS scam call. They always send letters first. Quite a few usually.
Eric S.
@Schlemazel: Based on my experience I’d categorize the environmental activists as follows.
1. Holier than thou leftist
2. Non – voting but vocal activists.
3. Run of the mill Democrats
4. Otherwise and regular GOP voters that do not like whay is happening in their back yard / favorite national park.
I won’t begin to try to put percentages to the breakdown but only #3 reliably votes for the D on the ticket come November.
Ymmv.
The question, as always, is how to get people to vote for their interests on s consistent basis? Sadly i remain without an answer.
Kelly
@Redshift: Agreed. It’ll proceed differently in different places. The fires amongst beetle killed pines east of the Cascades seem more directly tied to climate change than the fires west of the Cascades.
debbie
@lgerard:
Charities are exempted from Do Not Call.
Bill Arnold
@Cheryl Rofer:
Thanks, that Scientific American piece is good and much less technical (i.e. sharable with a broader audience) than e.g. Michael Mann’s facebook post.
FWIW, if anyone ever hears a wingnut gleefully relaying a story on Breitbart or whatever about a new paper that disproves global warming, or similar, it is often pretty easy to demolish such papers even as a non-specialist, since they’re usually obviously flawed. People comfortable with researching unfamiliar intellectual territory with scholar.google.com (or e.g. semantic scholar, or whatever) might consider making it a habit to attempt to demolish such (or any) bad science. There are usually well done rebuttals out there but it can be fun to practice doing it without looking at them, and it can be nice be able to say (without lying) that you didn’t look at them.
(“Oh yeah, I read that paper. It was pure BS, because X,Y,Z. The figure on page 7 in particular was goofy.” Not “It was funded by [bad org O]”; might be true but it’s less interesting unless you’re talking to a lawyer type.)
No quarter. Go aggressive on anyone who starts spouting global warming denialism. Think about the elements in the fossil fuel industry who aren’t delusional believers in global warming denialism. They are essentially willing to slowly kill hundreds of millions (billions, really) of human beings for their share of a few trillion dollars in additional profit. (Perhaps they believe that there will be secure rich-people enclaves (for their children and grandchildren) in high latitudes, both North and South.)
Chris T.
@MomSense: Yes, Ronald Reagan essentially noted that seed corn is tasty.
(Which it is, but there’s still a good reason you don’t eat it.)
Bill Arnold
[comment in moderation if anyone can release it]
The Pale Scot
Unless some sort of Eureka! event occurs that creates a technology that catalytically converts CO2 into graphene or Buckyballs on a massive scale, it’s too late. Gradual conversion to less CO2 intensive, never mind negative CO2 creation processes needed to begin 40 years ago.
CO2’s ability to capture infra radiation and to heat up and transfer that heat to surrounding molecules or re-emit infra radiation was understood over a hundred years ago. I’ve tried to explain this to people who are completely at home with understanding how infra radiation works with regard to rifle scopes and surveillance equipment. They have a complete understanding that infra-red can pass thru solid objects and still be captured by a device , but the idea that CO2 can capture and be heated by infra radiation that otherwise passes thru the atmosphere and so is heating the atmosphere up is “liberal science”.
So the it’s completely unremarkable that “emails” and “born in Kenya” get traction. It’s not that their salary depends on it, or their political position encourages using those memes a weapon. It’s that the modern version of rubbing poo in their hair to ward off evil spirits has validity to a large portion of the global population.
In the USA, a third of the population is confident that they are going to meet Christ before they die, another contingent just thinks it’s likely. “God won’t let that happen” is the most common reply I got from the people at a job I worked with at a defense manufacturing plant. These people aren’t dumb or ignorant, for politeness sake I never asked them what makes them think they’re so special that a entity that can keep track of billions of galaxies in just this universe gives a twaddle about a species of hairless ape too stupid to take care of the biosphere that keeps it alive.
The most powerful nation on the globe passed over a CIA Director who was the Ambassador to China and a Naval Nuclear Engineer who taught Sunday school in favor of a B-movie actor who even before he was elected confused his acting roles with reality.
Can’t say I was an optimist before but Reagan’s election settled the idea about my having kids. It wasn’t Reagan, it was the idea that a supposedly well educated western civ nation would turn down the other qualified candidates to elect him.
And that is in the “sophisticated West”. Take some time reading local Asian and African newsites, the majority of the human race believes in witchcraft and supernatural entities. Two hundred years ago the biosphere could survive that. But now those people have access to chemicals, explosives, and bulldozers.
Currently, the human race is just too willfully ignorant to survive. Outposts of rationality aren’t enough to keep civilization going.
The Pale Scot
@TaMara (HFG):
Sorry
The Pale Scot
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Sit man;
http://us-campaign-committees.insidegov.com/l/54897/Coalition-for-American-Veterans
Google is your friend
The Pale Scot
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: As soon as someone who called you mentions “credit card”, hang up